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Carnegie Mellon Says Computers Breached

maotx writes "Carnegie Mellon University is warning more than 5,000 students, employees and graduates that their Social Security numbers and other personal information may have been accessed during a breach of the school's computer network. What makes this one even more interesting compared to other recent break-ins is that CMU is home to the famous CERT."

203 comments

  1. Poster here by maotx · · Score: 4, Interesting

    And credit given where credit due, I picked up this story from a post on a mailing list from Paul Ferguson and his tech news.

    What I found to be so interesting about this story is that unlike the other thefts, this one did not require the theft of a computer or social engineering skills. This one looks like the works of a group of hackers and now has the FBI's computer crime squad joined in the investigation.

    --
    I'm a virgo and on Slashdot. Coincidence? Yes.
    1. Re:Poster here by markild · · Score: 1

      "The entire school has been affected. Some of the information is more sensitive than others,"

      Besides the social security number, I can't really say I see the reason for anyone to retrive this kind of data.

      I know that most people feel uncomfortable with the feeling that someone got their entire student/employee history, but I can't see the harm in it either.

      --
      Scully: Should we arrest David Copperfield?
      Mulder: Yes we should, but not for this.
    2. Re:Poster here by maotx · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, with a SSN, mother's maiden name, and birthdate you can open almost any kind of account you want. And heaven forbid you also have their driver's license number. One could completely still an identity with this kind of information.

      --
      I'm a virgo and on Slashdot. Coincidence? Yes.
    3. Re:Poster here by Meagermanx · · Score: 2, Funny

      Yes, a group of coughRIAAcoughcoughMPAAcough hackers.
      I wonder if the "hackers" found any MP3 files in the information they stole?

    4. Re:Poster here by 0x461FAB0BD7D2 · · Score: 1, Informative

      With the mother's maiden name, you could finally get access to that person's hotmail account.

      That is unless they used another question, in which case this whole exercise was for 50 years of ass-pounding.

      I guess the hackers really like backdoor-ing.

    5. Re:Poster here by AK+Marc · · Score: 2, Informative

      Well, with a SSN, mother's maiden name, and birthdate you can open almost any kind of account you want.

      With SSN and birthdate. Mother's maiden name (MMN) is used only for local verification. It isn't printed on credit reports or other such shared documents. You can make up a different MMN for every account that asks for it and never have anyone question you. The SSN, address, DOB, and past history are what is on the reports that origanizations look at for opening accounts.

    6. Re:Poster here by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While I'll agree that his blog does keep track of some useful tech news, I don't think I'm the only person who's sick of all the news stories he posts on NANOG. I suspect he's forgotten that that is a mailing list for network operators and their issues, not his personal news feed. Whoever suggested that he create a website and post the RSS link ONCE had the right idea (though the link in his signature is alright too).

    7. Re:Poster here by legirons · · Score: 2, Interesting

      "This one looks like the works of a group of hackers and now has the FBI's computer crime squad joined in the investigation."

      Out of interest, how did they manage that? Did they have to declare a ludicrous dollar-cost for the problem, or was it just the publicity? FBI are notorious for being about as active as a large rock when it comes to investigating hacks.

    8. Re:Poster here by randall_burns · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Mother's maiden name was commonly used for veification of credit card acounts when I worked in that field 10 years ago. With Name, DOB, SSN, Mother's Maiden name, credit card number, expiration date and verification number it was possible to hijack a credit card.

    9. Re:Poster here by KewlJedi · · Score: 1

      Well, I know 3 people here at CMU getting subpoenaed by the RIAA. Maybe they just wanted the information early.

    10. Re:Poster here by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      With Name, DOB, SSN, Mother's Maiden name, credit card number, expiration date and verification number it was possible to hijack a credit card.

      The question wasn't about a hijack, but opening a new account. I would guess that you never checked the mother's maiden name against some standard MMN database. It is completely unnecessary for opening new accounts in someone's name.

      I was in college at the same time as my sister. The phone registration used SSN and DOB. I knew my sister's SSN and DOB, so I could have done absolutely anything to her I wanted. The student ID was SSN. Ask someone their birthdate (not unusual, in the right ciscumstances) and sneek a peek at the ID they had on them, and you could drop all their classes and enroll them in others. Eventually, they moved to student IDs which weren't SSN. Now, when I call in for a transcript or something, I no longer know my student ID. Makes it a real pain...

  2. Wait... what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Interesting. I'm a CMU student and I haven't heard anything about this.

    1. Re:Wait... what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Many hackers make the classic blunder of telling everyone and taking out ads on TV and radio. Obviously these ones are sneakier than that.

  3. The internal network was smashed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They suspect Gallagher.

    1. Re:The internal network was smashed by dabigpaybackski · · Score: 1

      Why? Was it covered in watermelon?

      --
      "OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
  4. um... by loid_void · · Score: 0, Redundant

    This CERTianly is an interesting piece of information.

    --
    Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
    1. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a CERTified master of puns.

    2. Re:um... by Chris+Kamel · · Score: 2, Funny

      but probably also CERTainly in need of a spell checker

      --
      The following statement is true
      The preceding statement is false
    3. Re:um... by loid_void · · Score: 1

      using the Kamel spell checker; a great product.

      --
      Anyone seen my jagged little pill?
    4. Re:um... by dgatwood · · Score: 2, Insightful
      Of course, you should realize that CERT has been all but replaced by the new US-CERT, run by the Department of Homeland Insecurity. That new group's idea of computer security includes:

      • Using WEP (ooh, so secure) to "prevent" terrorists using your base station.
      • Sending out signed weekly messages to warn about vulnerabilities, but instead of sending out a detailed list, the message only contains a reference to their web address.
      • That web server runs Windows.
      • That web server is on a .gov address that I haven't been able to access in over a month because the .gov DNS servers time out. I can't access it from home or from my servers on the other side of the country....
      I've given up on relying on CERT to keep our network secure. It's sad, but at this point, my best sources of security info are Slashdot and regular checks of certain daemons' web pages. IMHO, it's long past time to overthrow US-CERT and create an organization that actually understands security, but I don't see it happening....

      IMHO, leaving our planet's cyber-security in the hands of the U.S. Government is like leaving our planet's physical security in the hands of the U.S. Military, or leaving your business's security in the hands of a ten-year-old child with a toy spy camera. Where is UN-CERT when you need it?

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    5. Re:um... by blackomegax · · Score: 1

      but a 10 year old with a spy camera can defend a business better than cert or rent-a-cops can ;)

    6. Re:um... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps you could put this in your hosts file:

      192.88.209.25 www.us-cert.gov

      My traceroute to it passes through several *.cert.org hosts, also in 192.88.209.*, so it looks like CERT hosts US-CERT.

  5. Hacked you all! by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 0

    sprintf(ssn , "000-00-0000");
    while (1) {
    do_bad_stuff(ssn++);
    }


    Now, having said that, I think it stands to reason that any number that can be automatically generated is automatically at risk of hacking.

    Which is to say that it is at the same risk of hacking as any other random number. Which is to say that it is not at risk.

    As long as your SSN is nothing more than a number, nothing bad can happen to it.

    Now, if someone were to take it and try to do something with it, hopefully you guys over in the U.S. have something to protect yourself with. Some kind of legal recourse to protect SSN holders.

    I know I'm not assuming too much here. Those Murkins have thought of everything.

    1. Re:Hacked you all! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry but your code almost only generates invalid serial numbers:

      000-00-0000
      0-00-0000
      -00-0000
      etc

    2. Re:Hacked you all! by WhatsAProGingrass · · Score: 1

      If the computer had ss numbers, then it most likely also had the name and address and maybe even information about birth date on that same computer. I think it sucks that this sort of thing happens. I'm in the military and my ss number is known by just about anyone that takes 5 minutes searching for it. So sad.

      --
      Mark
    3. Re:Hacked you all! by Drantin · · Score: 1

      But when your SSN is associated with your name, people can use it to pretend to be you and sign up for other forms of ID that can be used and show up as black marks against you...

      --
      Actio personalis moritur cum persona. (Dead men don't sue)
    4. Re:Hacked you all! by jacksonj04 · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Does this not highlight a major problem with the system?

      The UK has a NI number which is kinda similar, used for taxes, pensions etc. but you sure as hell can't pretend to be someone just by knowing that and a name.

      --
      How many people can read hex if only you and dead people can read hex?
    5. Re:Hacked you all! by northcat · · Score: 1

      I'm not an American, but I'm guessing that SSNs are only useful when combined with the Names (and maybe addresses) of the people. And that SSNs are not created serially, but randomly. Am I correct?

    6. Re:Hacked you all! by Baricom · · Score: 1

      I'm not an American, but I'm guessing that SSNs are only useful when combined with the Names (and maybe addresses) of the people.
      You're very likely to have access to the name and address, since it'll usually be stored in the same place as the SSN.

      And that SSNs are not created serially, but randomly. Am I correct?
      Nope. Social Security Numbers are indeed created serially.

    7. Re:Hacked you all! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would be incorrect. Why would you need to randomize something soley intended to distinguish between all the John Q. Does and Robert Smiths we have here?

      At the risk of repeating myself for the third time, you've got a number designed to be an Identifier being misused as an Authenticator. That is the root of the problem.

    8. Re:Hacked you all! by britneys+9th+husband · · Score: 1

      Also there's only 1 billion possible SSNs, and the population of the US is 300 million. So, if you pick a number at random, you have a 30% chance of picking a valid number. And since there's a pattern (as you mentioned), the real odds are actually much better. I doubt you can do much with just a number and no name or other information.

      --
      Hear recorded Slashdot headlines on your phone! New service beta testing. Just call (248) 434-5508
    9. Re:Hacked you all! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I'm not an American, but I'm guessing that SSNs are only useful when combined with the Names (and maybe addresses) of the people.
      My name is misprinted on my social security card, but I still have been using this number for 15 years and never bothered to correct the card. So against what do they actually check the number? Obviously not the SSA database. So against previous uses? Wouldn't that mean that you could happily use the SSN of your neighbors kid before he ever takes out a credit card in his own name??
  6. Is This Really News??? by ferrellcat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sadly, it seems more astonishing if a day does by when a major personal information breech is NOT reported.

    1. Re:Is This Really News??? by BrK · · Score: 2, Informative

      Yup.

      Especially when you consider that there are products already available that can greatly reduce, or eliminate, these sorts of things.

      Guardium http://www.guardium.com/
      Tizor http://www.tizor.com
      Lumigent http://www.lumigent.com/
      (just to name a few) All have solutions to information access/identity theft problems. If a company is storing personal/private/sensitive info it would seem they would be more aggressive in deploying preventative measures.

      --
      -This sig intentionally left blank
    2. Re:Is This Really News??? by orthogonal · · Score: 1, Interesting

      "Sadly, it seems more astonishing if a day does by when a major personal information breech is NOT reported."

      Right.

      These breaches are inevitable. That's why, as I've said for a while, it doesn't really matter if an organization -- whether it's Google or the government -- promises to "do no evil".

      Even an organization run by saints -- and no organization is run by saints -- can be breached.

      So there are two things that need to be done: first, we need to convince organizations, both corporate and governmental, to limit the information they collect to what is actually necessary for their functioning. And access needs to limited and audited to prevent misuse.

      Given prevailing corporate ethics -- that whatever is good for profits is ethical -- the "convincing" will have to be in the form of data-protection laws and privacy-protection laws that limit information collecting and impose penalties for misuse or failing to adequately safeguard it.

      Second, what information is collected needs to be encrypted. While that won't prevent all hacking, it will mean that copies of data stolen in bulk will be pretty much useless to the thieves.

      Again, it's not sufficient to think, "well, I trust Google (or the FBI or Social security administration or my bank) won't misuse my information" -- it's necessary to remember that organizations change sometimes without warning (see the first link, above), and that external hackers internal misusers can pervert any system (see the second link).

      Our response has to be more than "whistling past the graveyard" hoping that nothing will go wrong. Breaches are inevitable, and our laws and our data-retention worse practices -- not the best practices we hope for, but the worst we allow -- must reflect that.

    3. Re:Is This Really News??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...first, we need to convince organizations, both corporate and governmental, to limit the information they collect to what is actually necessary for their functioning...."

      absolutely. Can someone explain to me why an university needs its students' SSN? -- or alternatively, why students accept to give this info in the first place? as explained in many other places it is a lousy identifier, and in an university which has a number of foreign students, i.e., who do NOT have a SSN to start with, they most certainly already have an alternative means of identifying their students (their own ID number scheme);

    4. Re:Is This Really News??? by Locutus · · Score: 1

      Well stated. Unfortunately, we're going to need new laws now that it's somehow so much easier to hack into systems. Enacting laws which force data collectors to encrypt data or be fined. When the data is lost, fine them 10X if the data was found to not be encrypted.

      I have to ask one question: Why is it so common for data systems to get hacked? Corporate and Campus data has been stored on computer systems for years and years without much of any problems holding on to it. Now, it seems like they've all decided to put this data on a laptop with a SECRET sticker on it and left it sitting in the middle of a seedy bar.

      Close to 20 years ago, corporate access to the internet was not as common as it is today but it was available to many larger corporations. Most large educational institutions were networked.... What's changed? Are admins dumber today than yesterday?

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    5. Re:Is This Really News??? by djbrums · · Score: 1

      This completes my trifecta! What did I win again?

      I did my undergrad at the university of northern colorado, my master's at stanford, and am doing my phd at CMU. Each university has had computers with academic information/records breached.

    6. Re:Is This Really News??? by SCVirus · · Score: 1

      Heh i'd love to see someone try to sift through the information google has about people... they would need some kind of search engine that displays relevent results first hmmmm....

    7. Re:Is This Really News??? by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      Can someone explain to me why an university needs its students' SSN?

      Tax purposes, I assume; I took a couple classes at a community college last year, and they sent me Form 1098-T so I could claim a deduction on my taxes. Presumably the IRS also gets a copy of this (so they can verify I didn't lie about it), and they need my SSN for that.

      and in an university which has a number of foreign students, i.e., who do NOT have a SSN to start with, they most certainly already have an alternative means of identifying their students (their own ID number scheme)

      Foreign students aren't paying taxes to the IRS, generally.

      But yes, schools do have alternate systems in place for students who choose not to provide their SSN. I don't know how the tax thing works out, but schools do generally say an SSN is not required to enroll, and have alternate instructions for how to fill out their forms.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    8. Re:Is This Really News??? by dabigpaybackski · · Score: 1
      In the meantime, that is, until our institutions start taking the security of our personal data seriously, we would do well to trasmit as little unencrypted data over the Internet as is humanly possible. Mainly, that means conducting fewer credit card transactions via Internet.

      Good luck petitioning the government to acquire less of your personal information. I have zero confidence in their ability, or desire, to protect my privacy. Why should they? It's power they crave, not justice. They're getting paid whether they succeed or fail. From the policymaker's point of view, we are milk cows and nothing more.

      I do, however, have confidence that private companies take that responsibility seriously, as they have much to lose if their customers desert them. And they need not even suffer a damaging security breach to reform their system. All that is required is a few well-written letters written by concerned customers for a good company to take heed.

      Best of all is the company who puts the security of their clientele at the forefront as a matter of principle. Fortunately, such companies exist, and we can reward them by purchasing their goods. Shoddy competitors will take heed or they will suffer.

      Breaches are inevitable, yes, but as these sordid news stories accrete and become Internet history, it will become evident that certain institutions that do a lot of business online were spared major security breaches because of their high standards of professionalism, not dumb luck or the timely intervention of government bureaucracies. Isn't that why Swiss banks are so highly regarded?

      --
      "OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
    9. Re:Is This Really News??? by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

      These breaches are inevitable. That's why, as I've said for a while, it doesn't really matter if an organization -- whether it's Google or the government -- promises to "do no evil".

      Even an organization run by saints -- and no organization is run by saints -- can be breached.

      I think you're mis-directing fault here.

      If the Google founders say they intend to "do no evil", then does failing to secure their network sufficiently count as being evil? You and I agree that these breaches are inevitable, so the answer, I think, would be "no, unless they were extremely negligent about their security" (e.g. running a database server on unpatched Windows boxes without firewalls, etc.)...

      So, instead, the evil must come from somewhere else. Like the attacker? :)

      To clarify & summarize the above: just because they say "do no evil" doesn't mean that getting broken-into is "doing evil"...

      Anyway, I agree w/ the rest of your post. Given the inevitable nature of break-ins, the amount of info companies collect should be *lessened*, not increased. Yet we see this w/ credit card companies -- the 3-digit CCV code on the back of the card, use of SSNs "for verification", and so forth. We see it at banks: checking government-issued IDs in order to open an account (this is actually a PATRIOT Act requirement, i.e. the fault of the government), and the same use of govn't-issued IDs just to buy something with a credit card at various shops. The slow-but-sure move towards biometrics. And so on. From a statistical standpoint, it's good to have more correlations like that, but it also means there's more data available to be stolen when those breeches happen, as the always, inevitably will.

      What personal info is collected certainly must be encrypted, and that info should be as limited as possible. But as CPU speed and HDD space rises while the prices of both along with RAM drops, I doubt this is going to be the case in the future...
  7. Casual attitude about SSNs by bigtallmofo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What exactly were social security numbers doing on that computer?

    I'm still amazed at what companies ask me for my social security number and their casual attitude about what they do with it. My health insurance company uses it as my ID number. My dentist thinks nothing of asking for it and scribbling it on a post-it note along with my name while they enter a claim form into their computer and then they throw the post-it note away.

    I always make an attempt to refuse to give my SSN. The shocked, negative reaction I get is absolutely amazing to me. It is apparently so ingrained to U.S. culture to give that number up to anyone that asks regardless of the totally insecure way they handle that number.

    --
    I'm a big tall mofo.
    1. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by nsasch · · Score: 1

      I've rarely found that a SSN is needed. If you make a membership-required website, you ask for a lot of information that just stays in the database, and nothing is done with it. Maybe companies feel the same about SSNs, they have it, and they have no need for it.
      I can't even get Google Ads on my sites because my father(I'm under 18 in US) to give his SSN to Google.

      --
      Make your computer faster: rm -rf /mnt/windows/
    2. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Angostura · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, I suppose there are two ways of thinking about things like the SSN. One way is to consider it a piece of privileged private information that can be used for security purposes.

      The other way is to think of it as a piece of information information as public as your first name or hair colour.

      It seems to me that SSN now has to be considered in the second category.

      The problem is that there is a mismatch of perception in society, so some people see it as a secure item, some people think of it as insecure and some people don't really think.

      It is this mismatch which is causing the potential identity theft and security problems.

      I'm sure it is handy as a unique key in many people's databases, but it has to be realised that it is public and can be falsified.

      Disclaimer: I'm British, so I may have misunderstood some aspect of the problem.

    3. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      I was just hired by CMU (literally in the last few days).

      They still appear to be using Social InSecurity numbers as employee IDs. When I showed the personnel worker my newly minted CMU ID, she asked me my Social InSecurity number and only then was she able to find me in the system.

      I'm usually not anonymous but I'd better stay that way for this one.

      CMU Guy

    4. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful
      I'm sure it is handy as a unique key in many people's databases

      Only for people who don't know any better. Social Security numbers are recycled and should never be considered unique.

      It is possible for multiple living people to have the same SSN and even the same name.

      SSNs are also poor "security" identifiers because they are usually tied to where you are born along with other patterns.

    5. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wouldn't Google be paying you for the ads?

      Aren't those payments supposed to be declared as income?

      Aren't those numbers used for tracking Social Security benefits?

      I might be wrong, but in this case, I think they're allowed to ask for your SSN

    6. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by bartwol · · Score: 1

      Hmmm...I think they all use your Social Security number because they all use your Social Security number. That is, after all, why it's so valuable; it's your cross-reference ID, your "foreign key," your "global unique identifier," and yes, the name by which you are truly known in the databases of this world.

      Perhaps you might challenge their practices with a converse and more secure alternative: why don't they all use their own unique identifiers? Answer: that wouldn't be very useful.

      <bart

    7. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by kfg · · Score: 1

      It seems to me that SSN now has to be considered in the second category.

      And just what is it about a number that, by law, is not a general ID, and whose only legitimate use is in dealing with government tax authorities, that makes it "public" information?

      Disclaimer: I'm British, so I may have misunderstood some aspect of the problem.

      Yes, that would be my guess. It is a federal tax number that by law is not supposed to be used as ID for any other purpose and which you have the legal right to refuse to give for any nonlegitimate purpose.

      KFG

      KFG

    8. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Disclaimer: I'm British, so I may have misunderstood some aspect of the problem.

      Nice sig

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    9. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by tm2b · · Score: 1

      When I went to CMU ('91 BS Physics), your student ID number was the same as your SSN unless you went to great lengths to change it.

      I don't know whether they changed the practice, but it would explain why they had the SSNs.

      --
      "It is our blasphemy which has made us great, and will sustain us, and which the gods secretly admire in us." - Zelazny
    10. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by badfish99 · · Score: 1

      OK, I'm British too, so I don't understand this either. Can anyone please answer this: is there any way that the people asking you for your SSN can validate the answer you give?
      If so, what's the point in trying to keep your SSN secret, if anyone can find our what it is?
      If not, why not just think up some other random number with the same number of digits, and give out that when anyone asks you for your SSN?

    11. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      They didn't change for a while. SSNs were still used when I came in 1996, and they were printed on the front of your ID card. After much protest and a couple of years, they were removed. I hear that entering students can now choose non-SSN ID numbers.

    12. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by timeOday · · Score: 1
      I had a heck of a time buying a car last week without giving up my SSN - even though it was a cash deal for the seller (because I was financing through my Credit Union).

      What was worse, they said they needed the SSN due to a provision of the Patriot Act. And what's even worse than that, this practice must be widespread, becasue my Credit Union warned me in advance about this Patriot Act scam.

      And mind you, this car dealership was a very big one near Denver with hundreds of cars in stock - just the kind of place that legally pulls credit and background checks on many, many people each day.

    13. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by k8to · · Score: 1

      There are ways to validate a SSN but it's kind of clunky. Basically people check the SSN against other databases which are also keyed by SSN. But they're all nonauthoritative. The Government's tax collection can actually authoritatively check although I don't know if they do. I suppose credit agencies by hook or crook may have managed to gain access to this data. However, their databases do contain errors. I was refused to be sold a cellphone because my "SSN was wrong". It turned out to be a credit monitoring agency's database error.

      So basically the fact that you have to use the same number consistently allows them to clumsily match it to itself from database to database.

      You can make up a random set of numbers and eventually have to propogate from DB to DB, and illegal foreign workers use this technique regularly. There's some tricks to getting the process started that I don't know.

      So in some ways, to make your life non-stressful, you end up having to give out the same number to everyone, and for the few times where the network of number use actually links back to tax information, you mostly have to give the valid one.

      It's clumsy and sucks. But it's what we're using right now.

      --
      -josh
    14. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by legirons · · Score: 1

      "Disclaimer: I'm British, so I may have misunderstood some aspect of the problem."

      I suppose it's analogous (sp?) to the British way of using public information such as mothers' maiden name, date of birth, place of birth, etc. as "secure" passwords. If you were around when someone got born, you can have their bank account.

      Opening new bank accounts, new driving licenses etc. is supposed to be nominally harder now, although we seem to have just shifted the security problem to the postal system (the DVLA sends your driving license and passport together through the post, your internet bank requires certified copies of driving license, passport, etc. through the post and returns them through the post, etc., etc.)

    15. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yep... when I started in 98 they were still used as student IDs and printed on your id cards. I think it was probably my junior or senior year before they changed this and stopped printing them. I worked in the library, and everyone's library id was also their student id/SSN, so we routinely had to ask people for their SSN to look them up in the system.

    16. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Neurotoxic666 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Disclaimer: I'm British, so I may have misunderstood some aspect of the problem.

      No. Actually, I think you have a rather good view of the situation. I thought almost the same thing: thieves want this information because it is "secret". So it has to be secured. What if we suddenly make all SSNs publicly listed and stop trating them like they're our very souls.

      Isn't there some system that would replace our "security through obscurity" attitude by a "OpenSociety" way of dealing with personal information. I mean, I'm sure there some other -- and better -- way of verifyring someone's ID than to rely entirely on a few random numbers. I all those numbers are made public, what interest is left to steal them? We'd just have to think of a new, "open" way to deal with the issue.

      --
      You are more than the sum of what you consume. Desire is not an occupation.
    17. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by =weezer= · · Score: 1

      This is incorrect. From the Social Security Administration's page:

      We do not reassign a Social Security number (SSN) after the number holder's death. Even though we have issued over 415 million SSNs so far, and we assign about 5 and one-half million new numbers a year, the current numbering system will provide us with enough new numbers for several generations into the future with no changes in th

    18. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by bigredtint · · Score: 1

      My dentist thinks nothing of asking for it and scribbling it on a post-it note along with my name while they enter a claim form into their computer and then they throw the post-it note away.

      Yeah, cause you're that importent that somebody is gonna go through the trash to get your precious ssn. Jackass.

    19. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When in the US I got asked for my SSN to rent out a video. I told them "Your legally not allowed to ask me that". The guy spluttered and then said "Just make it up then".

      What amazes me about the SSN is how easy people give it away and how tiny it is. I have an PRSI number (now called RSI number. From Ireland). I couldn't remember the thing if I tried and it is not something just given to whoever wants it.

    20. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by dabigpaybackski · · Score: 1
      Shit, that's so brilliant that the government will fight you tooth and nail if you try to implement it. Sometimes I get so disgusted with this ever-increasing mania for "papers" that I want to cut up and burn every piece of insignia I own.

      Then I realize that, without the obligatory tokens of identity, the life of "convenience" I know will grind to a halt and I'll become a virtual pariah.

      No ID? Try boarding a airliner. See a house you like? Try approaching the seller with an attache case full of gold. You'll have dudes in unmarked cars parked outside your place for weeks. Is it not enough to know one's own name and buy what one likes, go where one likes?

      No, somebody will ask for papers and the whole transaction gets put in a database for God knows what purpose--certainly not mine.

      --
      "OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
    21. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by macosxaddict · · Score: 1

      Currently, CMU student IDs are the same as social security numbers (except for international students, who don't have SSNs). However, the ID cards we get are coded with a different number. This isn't particularly useful, since SSNs are still used for everything other than buying stuff on campus.

    22. Re:Casual attitude about SSNs by Jondaley · · Score: 1

      A friend who started in 97 had some other number on his id. He cared a lot about it -- I don't know how hard it was to do.

  8. Uh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Social Security numbers and other personal information"

    Which is probably enough for someone to steal your identity, get credit in your name, make your life miserable, etc.

  9. An everyday occurrence now.... by empty+drum · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Until a national Public Key Infrastructure is devised, requiring biometric input from each user, identity theft is not going to stop.

    --
    Creative Commons music that doesn't suck: emptydrum.com
    1. Re:An everyday occurrence now.... by beavis88 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's not going to stop it either. It may, however, change who does the stealing.

    2. Re:An everyday occurrence now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      ....requiring biometric input from each user...

      That won't make it stop, just instead of your credit getting fscked, you would get a finger hacked off or an eyeball dug out or something.

    3. Re:An everyday occurrence now.... by Locutus · · Score: 1

      Won't make it stop? It'll come pretty darn close. After all, the attack locations would go from thousands, down to one. And YOU would be in control of security YOUR data. Last time I checked, we still had a right to defend outselves. Or did the Patriot Act take that right away too...

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    4. Re:An everyday occurrence now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In our parts of the world, the biometric input is represented by that granny on the counter that peeps on the photo on your ID card. Works fine for me. Great tech, really, I mean it.

    5. Re:An everyday occurrence now.... by Thingummywut · · Score: 1

      and...

      what would happen if your encoded biometric input is stolen? how would you change it so that the people who stole it can stop using it?

    6. Re:An everyday occurrence now.... by dabigpaybackski · · Score: 1
      It's a point that's been brought up before. Without question, there are theives ruthless enough to do just that. You hear about the "organ bandits" they've got in Pakistan and other pleasant locales? No, they aren't stealing musical instruments.

      I had a friend from Mexico who made a point of taking flights to Mexico City that would arrive during the day. Why? Because if you arrive at night, there are muggers who follow taxis seen leaving the airport, run them off the road, and rob the occupants. They're desperate enough to crash an automobile into another in order to purloin its contents. Whether you remain alive or not throughout the affair is up to the discretion of the muggers.

      I wonder what cab fares are like down there.

      --
      "OH SHIT, THERE'S A HORSE IN THE HOSPITAL!"
  10. The doctor doesn't care by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He just wants your insurance ID. Whether that's your SSN or your dog's birthday is of no matter to him. If you don't want him to have it, demand that your insurance company give you a different ID.

  11. So... by Chris+Kamel · · Score: 1, Insightful

    I'm not going to moan about how frequently this seems to be happening lately, I've been thinking though
    Carnegie Mellon University is warning more than 5,000 students, employees and graduates that their Social Security numbers and other personal information may have been accessed
    What is one supposed to do with such warning?

    --
    The following statement is true
    The preceding statement is false
    1. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      You could report it to the credit bureaus to watch for identity theft.

    2. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      Check your credit card statements to see if you've recently ordered a bunch of Ferraris or Brioni suits

    3. Re:So... by Chris+Kamel · · Score: 1

      I tend to have bad memory so I may not be able to differentiate those ordered fraudulently from those I did order myself :p

      --
      The following statement is true
      The preceding statement is false
    4. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What is one supposed to do with such warning?

      Use it as evidence for a class action lawsuit? Maybe a few, highly publicized lawsuits would finally convince companies and other institutions to take data security more seriously.

    5. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd like the moron mod who rated the parent "offtopic" to please stand up

    6. Re:So... by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      What frightens me more is how many more institutions *aren't* warning their employees/students/clients/members? And how many of those aren't issuing warnings because they don't yet know there's anything to warn about?

    7. Re:So... by Locutus · · Score: 1

      Bingo! until it means $$$ to these people, they'll losing personal data and then say they are sorry.

      I know that no system is 100% secure but I'd still like to know what kind of system this stuff is getting stolen from. Fingers need to be pointed and someone has to start paying for this. Not just the consumer. The same consumer who'll have his/her lifetime to wonder what next is going to happen to them once their "number"(ie ID info ) has been released into the wild.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    8. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      What is one supposed to do with such warning?

      Use whatever cash remains in your pocket to drink your cares away.

  12. This is precisely the reason to think about data by beavis88 · · Score: 1

    My company just deployed a new application to help manage employee data, calendars, timesheets, etc. Guess what? We didn't put SSN anywhere near this application. It's a simple enough matter for someone to go to the locked file cabinet in the HR office and grab a number if need be.

    It's not like this method is particularly secure, but it doesn't really matter -- a physical break-in seems much more "acceptable" in the eyes of customers etc than does an electronic break-in.

  13. Looks like a departmental problem to me. by morph- · · Score: 4, Insightful

    As far as I can tell from the article, this only affects business students in the school. Judging from that, I'm guessing someone in the department was keeping a few spreadsheets or something of that nature around on a public windows share. This strikes me as far more of a careless employee problem than a truly insecure infrastructure problem. Thus, comments about CERT may be a bit premature.

    1. Re:Looks like a departmental problem to me. by HD+Webdev · · Score: 1

      As far as I can tell from the article, this only affects business students in the school. Judging from that, I'm guessing someone in the department was keeping a few spreadsheets or something of that nature around on a public windows share. This strikes me as far more of a careless employee problem than a truly insecure infrastructure problem. Thus, comments about CERT may be a bit premature.

      True, but how long would it have taken to write a program that scans for SS#'s that are in insecure areas?

      Not only that, their firewall should have noticed SS#'s being transmitted to the outside. Norton Internet Security prevents my personal SS# from being transmitted even if someone else is using my computer and tries to send it. Why didn't they implement something like this especially with CERT there?

      --
      This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
    2. Re:Looks like a departmental problem to me. by 51mon · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you are overestimating how much impact one department or group at a university has on the others.

      I wonder how many Universities had similar compromises and nobody ever noticed?

    3. Re:Looks like a departmental problem to me. by HD+Webdev · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you are overestimating how much impact one department or group at a university has on the others.

      In this case, CERT knows that they underestimated the impact of this particular example of shoddy security on themselves.

      --
      This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
    4. Re:Looks like a departmental problem to me. by worf_mo · · Score: 1

      CMU's CFO: Today I sold our student's data to a marketing firm.

      Wife: Somebody pays money for some geek's address and SSN?

      CFO: Who's talking about geeks? I sold the business student's data. They're supposed to have the necessary spare change the marketers are interested in. Want some more red wine?

      W: But is this legal.

      CFO: Of course not, but we are a little tight on budget.

      W: What if it is ever found out it was you?

      CFO: See, here comes the best part: I already spread rumour that IT screwed up and our servers were hacked. This has worked with other places before.

    5. Re:Looks like a departmental problem to me. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahhh, business majors. They like Microsoft products a lot, don't they? Call me a troll if you want to, but hey, they make the haxor's job soooo much easier! Did you say you had more information to share? Working for a company perhaps? A financial institution? With lots n lots n lots n lots of money? Show me the money! Even CERT and the DHS can't keep their warez clean heh! Showwww meee the moneyyyy baybeee!

    6. Re:Looks like a departmental problem to me. by street · · Score: 1

      But isn't a careless employee problem an insecure infrastructure problem?

      --
      pdb
    7. Re:Looks like a departmental problem to me. by whitehatlurker · · Score: 1
      Norton Internet Security prevents my personal SS# from being transmitted even if someone else is using my computer and tries to send it.

      So I can discover your SS# after breaking into your machine by simply sending each probable number from your computer to somewhere else? Those that don't make the journey are even more probably yours. Intriguing.

      --
      .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
    8. Re:Looks like a departmental problem to me. by HD+Webdev · · Score: 1

      So I can discover your SS# after breaking into your machine by simply sending each probable number from your computer to somewhere else? Those that don't make the journey are even more probably yours. Intriguing.

      Actually, no that wouldn't work. It's about matching a pattern, not me entering my SS# just so I can prevent it from being found.

      That would be a bit counter-productive.

      --
      This is not a dream, not a dream...we are transmitting from the year 1-9-9-9.
  14. question: by Adult+film+producer · · Score: 2

    Can I have my social security number replaced legally ? I don't know for sure, but I suspect my number is just about worthless now. Hell, sometimes we don't here about these thefts till months or years later. That leads me to work under the assumption that my SS# has been stolen, from someone , somewhere.. it's utterly worthless (not that it had any value before, my credit was crapped out anyways.)

    Something needs to be done about this, SS#'s are a joke. I was watching the local chicago news the other day and migrant workers can go down to the local 7-11, meet a shady character and have their own SS#, for $75-$100.. Come on, this is nuts.

    1. Re:question: by prisoner · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I don't know about replacing your SSN but I do know a lot about the market for getting SSN's. Some of our customers are construction companies and it isn't all that uncommon for a worker to come in and present a document that he says is an original and valid SS card. When checked, it is the same number as one already on file. I was in the office one day when a guy came in who had no fewer than 3 different SS cards on him. I think that it is reasonably clear that the SS number can no longer be considered any sort of valid identifier. It is, at this point, up to society and the government to move past it.

      This, of course, is the sticky point. What do we use in place of that unique identifier? A national ID card? That rubs a lot of people the wrong way and with some justification. However, the move to "secure" drivers licenses is simply a move at the state level to provide the same thing.

      Long and short of it is that someone smarter than me will have to figure it out. Shouldn't be that hard to find someone....;)

    2. Re:question: by dq5+studios · · Score: 1

      A quick Google shows that, yes you can. That link is relating to changing it to escape an abusive spouse but I'm sure that there are (a few) other reasons they'll accept.

    3. Re:question: by MasterOfMagic · · Score: 1

      Yes, you can. According to the Social Security Administration's website, you may request a new Social Security number if you are a victim of identity theft.

    4. Re:question: by Locutus · · Score: 1

      it looks like it's very unlikely that the SSA is going to go handing out new SSN's for the average ID theft situation....

      There needs to be a way to purge all holders of your SSN BEFORE someone "bad" gets ahold of it.

      LoB

      --
      "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
    5. Re:question: by quarkscat · · Score: 1

      I have a fairly good memory, but not a lot of
      useful links. Social security numbers are/were
      supposed to be a privileged (or secret) number
      for a contract between a taxpayer and the government.

      Just a couple of years ago, a group of Social Security
      Administration employees at the Federal Hill (Baltimore, MD)
      facility were arrested for selling lists of SSNs.

      And in the past few years, employees of at least
      3 DMV (Department of Motor Vehicle) offices (VA,
      DC, CO) were arrested for selling bona fide drivers
      licenses based upon fraudulent core identification.

      The USA has between 12 million and 28 million (data
      varies according to the PC-ness of who is asked)
      illegal aliens residing here. Porous borders and
      seaports, insufficient funding, and the PC-ness
      of politicians unwilling to enforce existing laws
      has created a bureaucratic and security nightmare.
      Not only do officials not know how many illegal
      aliens are in the country, they are also clueless
      as to who they are or what they are up to.

      While economic fraud is a portion of the impetus
      for identity theft, a far larger part of this problem
      can be directly attributed to the issue of illegal
      aliens and their efforts to obtain a "cover" identity.
      Identity theft must be addressed by
      a biometrically secure National ID card, stricter
      penalties for producing and using false documentation,
      and actually enforcing immigration
      laws. Underfunding enforcement has resulted in a
      lassefaire attitude among law enforcement officials
      al all levels of government, including a nonsensical
      "catch and release" policy by INS. ("You broke
      into the country illegally, but we are going to
      trust you to voluntarily show up for your heqaring
      in front of an immigration judge.")

      The only things I can suggest is to contact your
      representatives in regard to the "Real ID Act" and
      immigration enforcement, remove all mention of your
      SSN from driver's license and checkbooks, shred all
      out-of-date personal financial information, stay
      in touch with your SS office regarding annual
      statements, and keep a close watch on your credit
      reports.

  15. Answer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    Yes, please just fill out this short form and I will take care of it for you.

    Current Social Security Number: ___-__-____
    Full Legal Name: ____________
    Date of Birth: __/__/____
    Address: _____________
    City: __________ State: __
    ZIP: ______-____

    Thank you.

    1. Re:Answer by Adult+film+producer · · Score: 1

      heh, believe me I'm tempted.

  16. The weakest link by jokestress · · Score: 4, Informative

    I recently had a cyberstalker try to get some personal information about me from my alma mater. This yutz did this by contacting department secretaries, who were happy to oblige with all the information they had available. Luckily, this wasn't very much information, but it has caused some problems. So even though the registrar's office had things locked down fairly well apparently, these other points of entry into the system appear to be potential vulnerabilities: unattended laptops and workstations, and people who don't really think their job description involves a privacy/security aspect. I predict many more problems via remote access of a centralized institutional database.

    --
    Evil sig is livE.
    1. Re:The weakest link by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't know what the law is like in the US, but that's illegal in the UK under the Data Protection Act.

  17. Holy shit by Dancin_Santa · · Score: 1

    But when your SSN is associated with your name, people can use it to pretend to be you and sign up for other forms of ID that can be used and show up as black marks against you...

    Is this true? You'd think that at least the most basic protections would be in place to prevent this sort of fraud.

  18. The wierd thing is... by J_T_Biggs · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I go to CMU and work for the psychology departments comptuing support. Well about a month ago, our server crashed and our backups only partially restored. So I hopped on a new machine and installed linux. We switched it over to the network and created some accounts with easy logins so the teachers could get their stuff back up. Needless to say, less than 24 after being online it was hacked. While not malicious, the hacker did use our box as a staging point to make DOS attacks. I caught the guy a day later when I started getting emails from companies and kicked him off. The wierd thing is, the attack happened on the 10th of April. The same day Tepper was breached.

  19. Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by Rufus211 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just a quick clarification, Carnegie Mellon itself was not hacked. This was a Tepper School of Buisness machine that was hacked and their student data lost. As seems to be fairly normal, the buisness school is almost its own entity, even running on a different schedule than the rest of the campus.

    1. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by eznihm · · Score: 1

      the buisness school is almost its own entity

      this is a problem on many college campuses, and it serves them right. not that anyone deserves to be a victim of a crime, but a refusal to participate in enterprise computing along with the rest of the campus and guided by central IT is nothing but an ego/power trip for business school administrators

      --
      -- i drop mine in braille so you blind cats can read me
    2. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by tuxliner · · Score: 1

      Tepper School of Business runs :
      windows

    3. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by NotoriousQ · · Score: 2, Informative

      That may be true if they were the only ones doing that. However that is not the case. All academic departments at CMU have their own networks. IT owns cmu.edu and andrew.cmu.edu, which provide connectivity, cluster services, student AFS space, and generally everything that has to do with undergrads. CS department on the other hand has its own space, and much more lax rules. Many people in CS have root access to their machines, and no bandwidth policies, arbitrary quotas on AFS servers, etc.

      All of these are highly integrated, and frequently run on the single kerberos realm provided by IT. (You can log in and read files in CS with your Andrew account, etc)

      It would be nice to have a single system, but the number of requests will be highly uneven, and it would be a nightmare to figure out who pays for what. Especially in terms of software. Should IT buy pro-e for the whole school, when only engineering requires it.

      And really, this breach has nothing to do with bad network policy. Sure someone broke into an insecure computer, and probably downloaded the access database that was used to store some personal info. This will make the administrator annoyed, but not responsible. And definitely not as angry as when the same file has been lifted off an AFS without knowing someone's password.

      --
      badness 10000
    4. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by Darth_Burrito · · Score: 1

      Complete centralized management of a large university's IT resources is not only impossible, but it is also undesirable. There are too many things that are needed by specific departments (library systems, career services systems, meal plan systems, course registration systems). These kinds of things all have to be developed and managed by people who are very close to the housing department. Besides, many universities, like mine, offer only basic service centrally managed. Sure we could use central IT's free email system, but we'd frequently experience long delivery delays and we'd have a 15 MB quota.

      What's really needed at universities is not centralized management for everything, but institutionalized oversite and forced interdepartmental communication. Instead of having one fulltime administrator managing a department's assets by himself for 20 years, you should have two administrators spending half their time working at central IT and half their time working in their primary department. It improves security by adding an extra set of eyes and slightly different set of expertise while forcing exposure to the practices being used centrally and amonst other operating units. Of course, this will never happen and there's probably some scalability issues in terms of # people per departments and office resources.

    5. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by SnowZero · · Score: 1

      CS department on the other hand has its own space, and much more lax rules. Many people in CS have root access to their machines

      And many of us need that, so I'm not sure what the point here is: CS=="doing things with computers". And in the case of CMU CS IT, they are still using a RedHat 7 derivative, and still use Kerberos 4, and I'd like to run software from this century.

      and no bandwidth policies, arbitrary quotas on AFS servers, etc.

      Uh, there's sort of a bandwidth policy, which I discovered when a 40MB video of our research was linked in the first comment to a Slashdot article. Of course that was the andrew people who asked the cs people who asked me: You've used a months' worth of alowed bandwidth in 2 days, what's going on? Quotas on AFS aren't arbitrary... you have to telnet to "jeeves" and then you get a menu that lets you set your quota. Ok never mind, that's pretty arbitrary.

      All of these are highly integrated, and frequently run on the single kerberos realm provided by IT. (You can log in and read files in CS with your Andrew account, etc)

      That's just Kerberos and AFS being cool. They are different realms, but it still works due to cross realm support. You can either klog to get tickets in both realms, or set ACLs on both sides allowing access from the foriegn account (but don't forget to cklog the first time).

      You are spot on about IT though; This breach really sounds like some admissions' person had an insecure computer (laptop maybe even?) with a database left on it. It's up to the business school to make sure there are as few copies of the data as possible. That's just good security in general, which has nothing directly to do with computers.

      Now if the CS department gets breached electronically, I really will be annoyed, because they really should know better. CS should fall only to social engineering attacks taking advantage of dorks, which the business school should be more immune to.

    6. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by NotoriousQ · · Score: 1

      The whole issue with Kerb4 is that there were some major problems with Kerb5 playing with AFS or something like that. Andrew AFS is still AFAIK based on Kerb4 tokens.

      The bandwidth policies are not policies, but rather good adminning. If you have an andrew machine, and it uses up too much bandwidth, which I believe is 5GB per day, or over 1GB average for 5 days, your pipe is shut off (there may or may not be a warning). This does not happen with CS machines, where andrew assumes by default that those machines have academic use. They will investigate though.

      CS quotas are much easier to change than andrew quotas. In andrew to get a bigger quota, you need to start a project, and get faculty to undersign it. Then you need to submit it to a bunch of people. Also among the same lines, it is much easier to contribute software on cs. Sometimes you can just send an email, and the people in CS will install the software on whatever servers you need. (assuming you want some kind of software on public servers). Also the CS has maintained clusters used for educational purposes, which should technically be under the administration of a professor. None of these services are provided by andrew.

      Single logon is not just Kerb and AFS being cool. IIRC the system is set up to trust all the different domains. Hence a much greater interoperability. Therefore things like zephyr can work across domains as well. Although, I should not make such a grand claim. Perhaps it is just AFS/Kerb being cool.

      CS should fall only to social engineering attacks taking advantage of dorks
      Heh, I would be more worried about personally managed machines. Although those should not contain too much sensitive info, as most secretarial machines are cs managed.

      --
      badness 10000
    7. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The bandwidth policies are not policies, but rather good adminning. If you have an andrew machine, and it uses up too much bandwidth, which I believe is 5GB per day, or over 1GB average for 5 days, your pipe is shut off (there may or may not be a warning). This does not happen with CS machines, where andrew assumes by default that those machines have academic use. They will investigate though.

      Simply not true, you initally get 10GB of traffic averaged over a 5 day period. If you exceed that amount, you get a warning and are bumped to daily traffic monitoring. Then, if you go over 2GB a day, you get booted off the network automatically. No machines are exempted from this policy by default, special requests must be sent to computing services who controlls all network access on campus. All machines are registered through them and can be monitored and dealt with easily.

    8. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by eznihm · · Score: 1

      But ask anyone engineering computing services in the central IT organization at a largish university which department annoys them the most and the answer will be the business school.

      Libraries are trending towards more collaboration with central IT departments. Look at the Information Commons phenomenon - the ones that fail are staffed exclusively by Library Technical Services. And it is a problem if the Library director/dean doesn't have a working relationship with the CIO. Next time the library tries to deploy the newest catalog software or expland the largest lab on campus they will, in my observation, not hesitate to work with academic/administrative computing. Business school deans, generally, don't give a fuck about the CIO.

      broke into an insecure computer, and probably downloaded the access database that was used to store some personal info

      This is nothing but the result of bad network policy.

      --
      -- i drop mine in braille so you blind cats can read me
    9. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by NotoriousQ · · Score: 1

      CS or andrew?

      On andrew, I am quite certain there is a point where your network is shut off first, no warnings given. I have experienced it before there were any set limits for bandwidth, so I do not know what that specific amount is. The stated policy is 1GB. I have been warned twice: when I averaged a little more per day (I had a traffic manager running, averaging about 1.0-1.2 GB a day, running p2p), and the second time (on a totally different registration) I have gone over 2.5 GB that day, and got warned instantly (did not get cut though). Perhaps they no longer cut the network like they used to.

      For CS I am not sure, but I know people who use the network extensively, and they said they did not have to do anything special. However, what might have confused me, is that those people are probably on I2. So in other words, I have no clue about the real policy for CS machines is.

      --
      badness 10000
    10. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by NotoriousQ · · Score: 2, Informative

      I would not be surprised that the Business school people probably keep their accounting on personal laptops. Nothing IT can do about that, if they do not have the power to bend all computers in the school to their will, which they should not (bad it policy is worse then no it policy)

      The thing that IT is making sure of however is that the passwords are used only via the main kerb. CMU had plenty of problems of people giving passwords to OLR, housing in order to use online services. The current policy is that there must be no site that asks for password, instead site must forward to a ticket granting site. That is good policy. But it still does not help the secretary on a windows laptop with bonzibuddy preloaded.

      --
      badness 10000
    11. Re:Not really CMU, but Tepper School of Buisness by coringo · · Score: 1

      The stated policy allows for 2GB of traffic (1GB down and 1 GB up) per day. If a machine is found to be compromised, sending spam, unpatched (for various patches) it is suspended instantly and a notification is sent but that's entirely unrelated to bandwidth. as far as CS goes: it is possible that their traffic is going over I2, but that would only be true if the only people accessing the machine were on other I2 campuses...if a machine plugged into the network is accessed via the internet it still counts against the quota if it hasnt been exempted by computing services

  20. No problem... by Darvin · · Score: 4, Funny

    I don't use my own identity anymore anyway.

    1. Re:No problem... by Colin+Smith · · Score: 1

      It's always worth having several of them lying about. When ID cards arrive in the UK, I plan to get a few of those too.

      --
      Deleted
    2. Re:No problem... by SpinJaunt · · Score: 1

      Neither do the other 99.999% of the basement geeks here..

      --
      /. is good for you.
    3. Re:No problem... by whitehatlurker · · Score: 1

      Can I have your old one? It's gotta be better than mine.

      --
      .. paranoid crackpot leftover from the days of Amiga.
    4. Re:No problem... by Darvin · · Score: 1

      Well, if you do really want it, sure. But i do warn you, you'll end up being wanted by interpol, all 50 states and being on the top 15 most wanted by the FBI. Oh, and more serious, my old identity was signed up for the Barney newsletter.

  21. Media by TrIp0d · · Score: 0

    The last two weeks has been a media hype job about computer security. Ever since the news about 500,000 credit card numbers being stolen two weeks ago from a major clothing retailer, there has been a rash of reports about credit card numbers and other personal information being hacked out of major retailers' databases. This has been going on for some time now, but the media just recently realized what a frenzy it creates, so there you have it. I'm sure these hackings have been going on some time now. It's just turned into a legal money maker now.

  22. Can someone answer this question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is it that every time that we see these reports about computers getting hacked into, that NONE of the reports list the number one fact that the public deserves to be told.

    WHAT KIND OF COMPUTER/OS WAS HACKED???

    Sheeesh. Isn't the news supposed to be about facts?

    1. Re:Can someone answer this question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When someone gets shot, they usually don't report the gunmaker.

    2. Re:Can someone answer this question... by colinrichardday · · Score: 1

      One might presume that there isn't enough difference between guns for that to matter. However, some OSes might be easier to hack than others.

    3. Re:Can someone answer this question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      err...nice analogy..NOT. I didn't ask what kind of computer they used to hack INTO the other one. I asked what kind of computer was hacked into. A better analogy would be if a certain type of car was easily stolen because of a bad implementation of a touch pad lock and ignition system.

      Surely that would make the news.

    4. Re:Can someone answer this question... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When people have their homes broken into, the window/door makers aren't named. When someone is shot and their bullet proof vest isn't enough, you never hear the brand.

  23. An Alternative Response by rdelsambuco · · Score: 1
    This issue has arrisen periodically over the past several years. If you take a look at previos situations, commonalities can be discerned. However, it is unlikely that future implications are really that severe, and we should probably all just let this one go.

    My $0.02

    --
    I comment occasionally so that I can mod others -1 overrated or -1 offtopic.
  24. Why store the SSN? by Ann+Elk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Why does a system like this even need to store the SSN? Why not a (md5/sha1/sha-256/whatever) hash of the SSN? This would still allow easy lookups and associations by SSN, but would not reveal the SSN to anyone who steals the data.

    I know, I know -- I shouldn't bother asking "why"...

    1. Re:Why store the SSN? by Al+Clocker · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, it's ok that you ask. Because if it's a hash I can just generate all 900 million 9 digit numbers, calculate their hashes, and see which ones match the DB. Oh, and then profit.

    2. Re:Why store the SSN? by fourtyfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Because this would only be minutely more secure than storing the SSN itself. Theirs nine digits in a SS #, numbered 0-9, thats 10^9 Even at a meager brute force rate of 1.5 Million MD5Sums / sec, it would only take 11 minutes to break every possible combination.

    3. Re:Why store the SSN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Why does a system like this even need to store the SSN? Why not a (md5/sha1/sha-256/whatever) hash of the SSN? This would still allow easy lookups and associations by SSN, but would not reveal the SSN to anyone who steals the data.

      I know, I know -- I shouldn't bother asking "why"...

      No, that's just a diversion. Checksums are not a cure-all. In this case, it would be a false sense of security. The fact that you mention multiple checksum algorithms shows you haven't adequately thought this through. The strength of the algorithm has little to do with security when there are this few data points to map it back to.

      You could easily get all of the SSNs by trying 9 digit numbers.

      Remember, these aren't arbitrary 9 digit numbers. They are assigned by where you live, the middle 2 are (almost?) always even, and so on.

      There are a whole lot less possibilities than you would initially think. When you restrict the domain to 9 digit numbers following a strict pattern, it IS computationally feasable to reverse the checksums.

      Let's assume it wasn't possible today. You keep the same SSN throughout your life so at any point in the future the thieves could reverse the checksums when computing power is sufficient.

      Unlike credit card numbers, SSN and other identity information has no expiration date.

      The answer to this problem is to restrict access as much as possible. Then you can go with the secondary measures of encrypting the data -- which would be much better than checksums.

    4. Re:Why store the SSN? by Ann+Elk · · Score: 1

      Good point. A simple hash would not help that much. However, stretching the hash (repeating it several million times) would make each attempt take a few seconds (on today's hardware).

      You could also throw a salt into the mix, but this would complicate administration.

    5. Re:Why store the SSN? by merc · · Score: 1

      I was about to point this out also, but I was going to add that if the hash were generated from the SSN + other known (and unknown entities, such as a MAGIC number) thrown into the hash, it couldn't be brute force attacked .. at least not easily.

      E.G.: sha1(SSN+birthdate+uc(surname)+magic_no)

      --
      It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
  25. SSN versus ID-card by Councilor+Hart · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I am not an American, but from Belgium. I am required to carry a ID-card with me. Although the only time the police asked for it, was one time I got hit (lightly) by a car while on my bike. My bank has seen my ID card more than the police. Which I think is a good thing. It's my money afterall.
    So, if every american has an SSN, and it's given out almost like candy. And since the the US govn knows this number. Then what is the difference with a national ID card? And why are Americans so opposed against such a card?
    It's something I have been trying to understand for years.
    I don't feel harassed, having to cary my ID. I rarely use it. If I get in an accident, it can be used to identify me. It's rarely asked for. The police needs a justified reason to ask to see it. The bank can ask for, before giving out a lot of cash money, or before paying a check (also something which is very rarely used over here). I can travel freely across member states without showing it. Perhaps not yet with the 10 new ones, to be honest.
    Just wondering...

    1. Re:SSN versus ID-card by bardothodal · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The reason is this . In America , you have the RIGHT to be left alone. We are not a democracy. We are a constitutional republic in which all citizens are the sovern entity with rights embued by the creator and some enumerated in the Constitution.The government is in place to protect those rights. The government has no inherent interest in knowing a citizen's identity other than the interest of tyranny.

      --
      No matter where you go , there you are.
    2. Re:SSN versus ID-card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      "The police needs a justified reason to ask to see it."

      See, that's the sticking-point. In the US, lots of police officers are frustrated psychopaths who like to abuse their power. Not to mention others in higher powered positions in the government.

      Therefore, people have a queasy feeling about a national ID card that includes even more information than before.

    3. Re:SSN versus ID-card by StormyWeather · · Score: 1

      I would say you were spot on... BUT, the states already issue us licenses or state-ID's, and any other state can require we show them to conduct certain transactions, or be able to drive. I completely understand the tin foil hattery, because I don't trust our government as much as the next guy, but now that the national government has all of our drivers license information, what's the difference other than a centralized place to change ID numbers easily in case ours is stolen. That, and I live in Texas, and trust my State asshats less than the Washington asshats.

    4. Re:SSN versus ID-card by zakezuke · · Score: 4, Informative

      So, if every american has an SSN, and it's given out almost like candy. And since the the US govn knows this number. Then what is the difference with a national ID card? And why are Americans so opposed against such a card?

      Your Social Security card is not identification except for bank, your employer, and the IRS. I should also say the phone company also asks for this, and other businesses preforming credit checks which would include rentals. It should be a method of tracking your earnings and paying federal or state taxes (if your state has an income tax). It has no picture, no address, and unless it's changed is a piece of paper that says specifically "do not laminate" unless you have an older one from before 1988 or so. Most places that would require it don't even look at the physical document, why would they it falls apart after a few years. A few employers require one in good physical condition but typically those are limited to places concerned with illegal aliens. Foreign nationals working in America are required to have a tax ID number, but as being non-nationals don't get social security benefits hence no social security card, but just put the tax id number in place of where it asks for social.

      For identification purposes, most places use the driver's license which is a state not national agency. Some people don't drive, or can't drive, so those places issue ID cards as well. You are not required by law to carry one, but if you want to buy booze, go into bars, or cigs, or have a checking account it's very helpful. Passport is an option, but some places don't accept passports as forms of ID, even though they are required to by law.

      There are many reasons to object to a national ID card.

      1. ID cards are already provided by the State, no need for federal involvement. Classic State vs Federal rights argument.
      2. There already exists a national ID, it's a passport.
      3. We presently are not required to have ID on our person.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    5. Re:SSN versus ID-card by Councilor+Hart · · Score: 1

      The government has no inherent interest in knowing a citizen's identity other than the interest of tyranny.
      What about taxes? You may not like them, but they pay for roads, school, military, healthcare,...
      And how do you identify yourself to your bank (e.g. your money)? If there is no uniform system of identification, then how can they know , for certain, it's you? Not every one is rich enough to know their banker in person.
      I always hear stories from USA about identify theft, but hardly any from the *old* continent. But that could just be me.

    6. Re:SSN versus ID-card by badfish99 · · Score: 4, Interesting
      This illustrates nicely why we in Britain are opposed the the introduction of ID cards:

      1. A car hit you - you didn't do anything wrong, but the police wanted your ID. Why?
      The last time we had ID cards here, a woman found some item in the street and tried to hand in in to the police as lost property. They demanded her ID. She had forgotten to carry it, so was arrested. This caused such a scandal that it led to the abolition of ID cards.
      Criminals don't leave their ID number at the scene of the crime, so issuing ID cards will not help solve crimes. But it will create a useful new power that the police can use to harass any group they take a dislike to: the power to stop them and ask for their identity card.

      2. The bank wants to see your ID. Why?
      I've got a card from my bank too. When I want to take money out, it proves that I am the same person who put the money in. That's all they need to know. They don't need to know my nationality, or medical history, or police record. So I don't want a single ID that will link all that data together.

    7. Re:SSN versus ID-card by Councilor+Hart · · Score: 1
      . A car hit you - you didn't do anything wrong, but the police wanted your ID. Why
      So that the cop had the adress of both me and the driver. Should there have been a problem with compensation (my bike needed repairs) either of us could have gone to the police.
      I am mostly certainly not under the impression that an ID card solves crime.
      If the police wants to harass a person or group they can do so without an ID. Why would not having an ID card stop them from stopping you, asking you questions, holding you up or even arresting you? An ID card doesn't contain your religion or favourite sport team. They can't see it sitting in your pocket with their *x-ray* vision. As I said, they need a reason to ask for it. You in return can ask them why. If you decline to show it, they can take you downtown. You can make an official complaint if it was without merit. Now, suppose there are no ID cards. What would have stopped them from taking you down town, anyway? ID cards != harassment. Corrupt police/state = harassment.

      The bank wants to see your ID. Why?
      Because it's my money, and they want to be sure it's me. My ID has a picture of me. My bankcard doesn't. Both can be stolen, only one can be used by the thief by handing it over to a banker. Yes, I usually just give them my bankcard. But when I want to redraw 5000 euro (which I did once. I had both bankcard and ID. The banker didn't know me in person. It was a new person.), I was glad they asked for my ID in addition. (Although if the banker knows you well, it doesn't have to be this way.) The bank, by means of my ID has no access to my medical history of police record.

      I am not in favour of ID cards, per se. But also not against. It has it uses. But I am always surprised by the *extreme* reactions against.
      Oh, and if I have to chose between an ID card (which supposedly will only be used to track my every movement) and my fingerprints in some database, I sure know which one.

    8. Re:SSN versus ID-card by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      But it will create a useful new power that the police can use to harass any group they take a dislike to: the power to stop them and ask for their identity card.

      The problem with that logic is police already act as if an ID is required. I remember back in 2001 a group 14 students were stopped for 45min or so for jay-walking, the full treatment multi cars on the scene, id and record checks, the full 9yards which seems excessive and quite nuts given only one person got a ticket, the person who asked if they got stopped because they were Asian. While there were saftey issues here, and jay-walking tickets are not uncommon, this is a good example why we as a people want to limit police powers.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    9. Re:SSN versus ID-card by drinkypoo · · Score: 1
      Here in the US you need an ID for a lot of things, but you don't need to show it to anyone in law enforcement unless you are arrested or are involved in a traffic stop (we have funny automobile-related laws.) They actually specifically cannot arrest you for failing to provide identification.

      Also here in the US, your bank wants to see it any time you make a transaction. You are actually not allowed to put money into someone else's account here, because people stop checking IDs eventually and people used to find some [temporarily] abandoned bank account, make [small] deposits into it for weeks on end to gain trust of some tellers, and then come make some large withdrawals, never needing ID.

      I'm very glad the bank checks ID. I don't want them giving my money to someone else.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:SSN versus ID-card by Cyno · · Score: 1

      Its because we're all certifiably insane. Just watch CNN or Fox news if you don't believe me. We're a bunch of loonies who get scared of our own shadow and try to kill it with our shotgun. The sad thing is sometimes we actually believe we're winning this fight for our sanity against those evil forces of darkness.

    11. Re:SSN versus ID-card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The sad thing is sometimes we actually believe we're winning this fight for our sanity against those evil forces of darkness.

      The goverment is the beast. Woot woot!
      Bear arms and behead the beast. Woot Woot!
      Tin foil pirate hats all around. Woot woot!

    12. Re:SSN versus ID-card by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sounds like your police are cunts.

    13. Re:SSN versus ID-card by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

      They actually specifically cannot arrest you for failing to provide identification.

      4 years ago, you would have been fortunately right about this.

      But not so anymore.

      Take a look at the Dudley Hiibel case. Today, in America, you are effectively required by case law to carry some form of government ID.

      Welcome to the Nazi police state that is Bush's America.
    14. Re:SSN versus ID-card by sad_ · · Score: 1

      i'm from belgium too, so this is my view on your points:

      1. to warn his parents/wife/etc? i was hit by a car once, but rather very badly. at least they could identify me; warn my parents, the ER could look up my past medical records _fast_. they guy that hit me, was also identified and he could _not_ lie about it, just because of his ID. What is stopping anybody from giving fake information. Perhaps in a car accident you can ask for the drivers license, but what about a street brawl where somebody gets hurt, you can't ask a pedestrian for his drivers license (who says he has one, and then if he has, he can lie about it anyway, but he _must_ have an ID).

      2. maybe, because your card can get stolen? at least with an ID they can see you are not the person you are posing to be (in case you are a thief). perhaps all this info is on bank cards in the UK, which is pretty silly if you ask me.

      your example of the woman returning lost property is very strange. i know nothing of an incident like this in belgium and it is not like they pick random people of the street and ask them to show their ID. Also there is _no_ information on that ID card that can help other people know something important about you, except your address, name, birth date and your picture. Nobody can check your income, medical information, education, criminal record etc. when they have your ID.

      --
      On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
    15. Re:SSN versus ID-card by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      they pay for roads, school,
      State and local governments pay for these. It's not even legal for our Federal government to interfere in education. When they have, it's been at the point of a gun. Until recently, the Republican party had in their platform a plank to abolish the Federal Department of Education. They removed it in order to garner votes from ignorant housewives. Regardless, the Dept. is largely unfunded and ineffective. Except for large highways built during the Cold War as runway space for nuclear bombers, all roads are built and maintained by the States.

      military,
      Our military pays for itself. We only invade countries with hard workers.

      healthcare,
      We don't have socialized healthcare. Religious institutions foot the bill for most losses by hospitals.

      Both State and Federal governments can issue bonds when necessary, and they are quickly purchased, even in the worst of times.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    16. Re:SSN versus ID-card by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      unless you are arrested or are involved in a traffic stop

      These are one and the same. "Arrest" is merely a fancy word for "stop". It's used by governments and the media in a different sense than "traffic stop" only to lull you into the illusion that you are not actually "under arrest" and thus have no rights.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
    17. Re:SSN versus ID-card by benjamindees · · Score: 1

      A car hit you - you didn't do anything wrong, but the police wanted your ID. Why?

      I was robbed last year. After telling the responding officer everything I knew, including the description of a shady character that had been hanging around recently, she pulled out her ticket book and asked me for "my description". What? You mean, the description I just gave you? No. Turns out, she wanted a description of me to write on her report, along with my SSN.

      God Bless America.

      --
      "I assumed blithely that there were no elves out there in the darkness"
  26. CMU internal announcement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    An interesting thing to note is that the media broke the story on Thursday, but CMU didn't tell the CMU community until late Friday. I heard it on the news first!

    Another interesting note is that in the CMU internal announcement, the _second_ paragraph was effectively, "it isn't as if we're the _only_ school to lose information"

    The third paragraph says that the data was stolen from desktop and laptops rather than servers. WTF was sensitive data doing there?

    Sucks to be the business school, I guess.

    1. Re:CMU internal announcement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually an announcement of the system breech was given on Wednesday on the official cmu-news board.
      This was also posted on the website on Thursday: http://www.cmu.edu/PR/weekly05/050421_prweeklynews .html

  27. Information just wants to be free by fprefect · · Score: 0, Troll

    I wonder how the P2P and "fight the copyright" crowd feel about this? Obviously it's just information, bits and bytes, so it's not like it's really stealing or anything -- nothing has been lost or stolen, only copied.

    Oh wait, you mean data is only valuable if its *your* data. I see now.

    --
    Matt Slot / Bitwise Operator / Ambrosia Software, Inc.
    1. Re:Information just wants to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's a difference between creative or informative works and the numbers to access your SS files and bank accounts.

    2. Re:Information just wants to be free by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree completely..

      personal information and copyrighted works are 100% equivalent, and thus any organisation that wishes to know my SS number must pay me a licence fee of $700 for every employee in the company who may make use of said information in their work.

      Furthermore, any disclosure of the licensed information to any third party (illegal aliens/scammers/taxman/etc) will incur a penalty equivalent to the individual license fee for each party to the disclosure.

      damnit.. if everyone else is going to cash in on my social security number, why the hell shouldn't I?

  28. Personal IDs by nxs212 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    That's why a lot of companies (health insurance, financial,etc) are switching from using your SSN to Personal IDs as the unique identifier in the system. HOWEVER, they will still need your SSN for reporting stuff to the government. At least your SSN won't be listed on the health insurance card when you go to the doctor. Right now your doctor's office has enough info about you - SSN, home address, "emergency contact info", phone numbers and even possibly bank routing and account number (if you pay by check)
    Person who's handling all this can easily make copies and apply for new credit cards,etc.
    There's absolutely no reason why they need your SSN, your health insurance card (with non-ssn personal ID should be enough)

  29. SSN's are public, can't be secret by me_cynical · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Any information you are routinly asked to give up can not be considered secret. The problem with the SSN's is not that they get stolen, the problem is that they are useful to the thief. The idea that knowledge of a "secret" number entitles you to enter into financial obligations is simply insane. Adding other "secret" information to add further "safety", like mother's maiden name or place of birth, does very little to improve the situation and those extra pieces of information are likely to become available to the thief at the same time as the SSN's, from the same database.

    The only reason you are able to get into debt just by knowing your SSN is that it suits the lenders. They can be based in one state but do business in all of the states, through mail, internet and telephone. They have then managed to make it your problem that they give money to someone pretending to be you, sticking you with the problem of clearing up the credit reports they use to decide if you are trustworthy and doing what you have to do to get out from under the debt. Basically the lenders punish you for them (the lenders) giving money to someone pretending to be you. (Yes, I know that sentence is twisted, it's a really twisted system). This is an outrageously good deal for them and they have no incentive to fix the system, at least not until the amount of fraudulent loans is more than the money saved by not implementing a secure system.

    The solution is painfully obvious. When you apply for a credit card or enter into any contract, you should have to show your face and acceptable forms of id, either at an office of the lender or at a mutually trusted proxy. The proxy could perhaps be the closest USPS office. This proposed system is naturally not totally foolproof, no system can be, but it's a heck of a lot better than the current one. It's a lot more work to falsify id's than it is to harvest SSN's and the chance of capture is much higher. As there's no indication the lending business will self-regulate this, and it's really too big and diverse to ensure self-regulation, this will have to be implemented by laws.

    It's really incomprehensible to me that party A stealing my SSN from party B and using it to get money from party C becomes my problem. It should be the problem of party C that gave money to someone without bothering to make sure he was who he said he was.

    Making it a bit more work to get more credit cards is really not a bad thing either, most people have too many and practically everyone has too much credit card debt.

    While we're at it, we can stop pretending that credit card numbers are secret. That problem has already been solved, the banks just need to implement a system like PayPal, where you sign in and ok each transaction. Again, painfully simple.

    --
    A furore Normanorum libera nos, O Domine! [From the fury of the norsemen deliver us, O Lord!] -- Medieval prayer
    1. Re:SSN's are public, can't be secret by Dachannien · · Score: 1

      This is an outrageously good deal for them and they have no incentive to fix the system, at least not until the amount of fraudulent loans is more than the money saved by not implementing a secure system.

      I have trouble believing that this hasn't happened yet. I'm guessing that there are institutional "prisoner's dilemma" issues here preventing this from happening - no one corporation wants to absorb the cost of fixing the system when everybody gets to reap the benefits, so nobody does anything. This is exactly the sort of system that benefits from having an arbitrator (i.e., the government) require the industry to correct itself.

  30. Anyone remember the name of the IRC server? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CMU used to host an easily fooled IRC server, one that was commonly used in security breaches. Anyone remember it or know what happened? Last I heard, they weren't willing to shut it down, leading many folks to think CERT was a big joke.

  31. Social Security # Secure Number by brewpoo · · Score: 1

    SS# were not intended to be a secure ID number to be kept confidential. This is a complete fabrication of credit agencies and the like.

    The intent is to provide a unique ID number for the social security system. In many state databases (NYS employees) this ID number is freely available (along with your salary).

    To help keep yourself out of the "identity theft" arena, opt-out of instant credit. This is advisable for everyone, alas no more discounts at the GAP for opening a credit card...

  32. Letter from Tepper by Snorpus · · Score: 5, Informative
    I'm an alumnus of Tepper (GSIA, the old name, actually) and here's the email I received on Wednesday, April 20.

    Dear ______,

    On Sunday, April 10, the Carnegie Mellon Computing Services Office of Information Security identified a breach of some computers at the Tepper School of Business. Upon investigating and recognizing the unusual activity, Computing Services worked to disable, inspect and secure all servers and personal computers.

    We have no evidence that personal information on breached systems has been used for illegal or malicious activities. However, the potential risks associated with identity theft are very serious matters, and the Tepper administration has chosen several precautionary steps to communicate with all affected students, graduate alumni, faculty and staff on safeguarding measures aimed at protecting privacy.

    While we have not identified unauthorized use of information, we strongly encourage you to take steps to ensure your privacy. Personal information included in the databases that may have been accessed includes:

    - For master's alumni Class of 1997 through the Class of 2004: Social Security number and grades included in a student services database.

    - For master's alumni Class of 1985 through the Class of 2004: Job offer information you may have entered into the COC database as part of your job search process.

    - For all alumni: Contact information you may have entered into the alumni directory/alumni database. (Note: All Personal Access Codes (PAC) for the alumni database have been automatically updated for increased security.
    Your new PAC number is: **********
    Your email address in the directory is: ****************

    - For doctoral alumni Class of 1998 through 2004: Social Security number, GMAT, GPA and information submitted in your application to the doctoral program.

    Please visit www.tepper.cmu.edu/******* for information regarding precautions and steps to take to protect your personal information.

    We apologize and regret the inconvenience associated with this incident. Currently, the business school is in the early stages of investigation and does not have all details regarding the source of this breach. As further information is discovered, we will be sure to include it on the Web site listed above. In any event, please understand that we would not disclose details that would put any computer or network at risk of further intrusion or malicious attack.

    The recent Tepper incident is similar to the computer breaches reported by other universities. As a campus that prides itself as a hub for technology innovation, Carnegie Mellon is extraordinarily mindful of issues regarding information security. The recent breach is a reminder of the sensitive business environment in which we operate and the need to consistently monitor and advance our infrastructure and processes.

    If you have questions or concerns, we encourage you to contact John Sengenberger at jseng@andrew.cmu.edu

    Thank you.

    Steve Sharratt
    Associate Dean for Advancement

  33. The Type Of People Running Things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm not sure wether or not was related, but as part of my application process for their InforSec degree, I noted to their sysadmin, a few security issues. Their application (e-file) is located on another department's server. What was found was that the application used would not force and SSL connection (subject to possibly a XSS attack and connection sniffing) as well as upon just a curious portscan, their Oracle instance was wide open. The application for admission requested Social Security Numbers, among other things, and that, if I poked further, I could probably get in and start querying the database for whatever I would have wanted. I think the business school was picked on because of the profile earlier this year with their "application status" system which also hit some other Ivy League schools.

    It's a real shame to have received a rejection letter from the department, even after telling them what was wrong. I got more of an argumentative response from the sysadmin, with some level of bravado in his tone sayng it's not his responsiblity, and that they belive it to be secure. What a load of crap...

    I'm maybe bitter that most of the class members of ther graduate program there are from countries that I regularly see attack the network I'm employed to defend. Kind of like "teaching the enemy"... and pushing those who are here defending companies that may be providing them corporate funding for the program aside.

    Ah, heck.. just consirpacy theories... but it's a campus network, what could go wrong?!

  34. The Low Down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Being a current grad student at CMU, I can tell you this. In a half assed attempt to implement swipe cards for access control it was decided that the SSN is a unique identifying number which could be coded into the card. Somebody raised a fuss about this and CMU went through the painful process of replacing the SSN's with a pseudo-random number.

  35. Canada? by blueadept1 · · Score: 0

    I wonder if there is a reason that this is not taking place in Canada or other countries. Is it just not being reported? That scares me.

  36. Not CMU per say by pridkett · · Score: 4, Informative

    So just to reiterate, this isn't CMU proper that got hacked, it's the business school. They're off on their own little planet on the far corner of campus and run on their own schedule and everything else. It's like going to a completely different world overthere because you've got folks who dress nicely and what not.

    CERT is not really related to Tepper (the business school) in any way. In fact, CERT and the SEI are barely even related to CMU, they're off in their own little building a few blocks away and have their own security and networking. To associate the b-school getting hack to a failure of CERT would be like saying the CIA was vulnerable because the department of argiculture got hacked. It's just bad journalism to make an insinuation along those lines. CMU is a fairly large organization and it has its share of folks who understand computers and share of folks who are dolts.

    On to the other question, why were SSNs on there? Well, CMU is still stupidly using them as your student ID number. Up until this year they were encoded on your magnetic stript of your student ID card. You can change it, but they look at you funny when you ask to do that.

    So why would CMU even need SSNs? Well, like most institutions you've got to do a lot with financial aid to students. If you're doing financial aid and credit you need to use SSNs, simple as that. Tepper has its own financial aid department and thus probably needed the SSNs for that.

    This is just another point that the credit industry probably needs an overhaul more than anything else. Allowing someone to get credit by simply providing the SSN and a few other easy questions seems a bit reckles.

    --
    My Slashdot account is old enough to drink...
    1. Re:Not CMU per say by Spock_NPA · · Score: 1

      I find the amount of misinformation about the Tepper Business School's relation to Carnegie Mellon amazing. As a student affiliated with both the School of Computer Science and the Tepper Business School, I can tell you under no uncertain terms that the business school is not any more "on their own little planet" with their "own schedule and everything else" than any other college at Carnegie Mellon University.

      For those not in the know, Carneige Mellon University is comprised of several semi-independent "colleges": School of Computer Science, Mellon College of Science, Tepper Business School, Carnegie Institute of Technology, etc. Many of these semi-independent entities choose to also maintain their own separate IT infrastructure on the side specifically for their departmental use.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnegie_Mellon_Unive rsity

      Carneige Mellon University has a lot of interdisciplinary activities going on; no department at this university exists in isolation.

      --
      Regards,
      Spock_NPA
    2. Re:Not CMU per say by yic · · Score: 1

      On to the other question, why were SSNs on there? Well, CMU is still stupidly using them as your student ID number. Up until this year they were encoded on your magnetic stript of your student ID card. You can change it, but they look at you funny when you ask to do that.

      They don't anymore, do they? Up until this year, yes, but now students are issued different numbers (different from social security), although they don't have to remember it, the card takes care of it.

  37. Tales out of School.... by catdevnull · · Score: 1, Insightful

    This really shouldn't surprise anyone who works at a university. There are several mitigating factors that make this sort of intrusion inevitable.

    Here's why:

    Unlike private companies, universities are difficult places to enforce security policies because PhDs feel that these policies somehow inhibit their freedoms or that the rules shouldn't apply to them. Profs and researchers each get their own computer money and they build their own little networks, server farms, and have their own methods. Because they often want to share their servers with other univerisities, they are usually not behind a firewall and/or given address space that is world addressable.

    This usually creates a perfect place for intrusion--lack of cohesive security policy, machines that are run by novice sysadmins, and a really fat uplink the net.

    To make things worse, the networks on campuses are generally a hodge-podge of technologies and topologies that have been piece-mealed together like some kind of electric crazy quilt. You might have aging border router equipment, old hubstacks with vulnerabilities in their management utilities, random unmanaged/non-seucre wireless networks in the dorms or offices, etc--a nice untraceable uplink to your LAN.

    Managing the security for these networks is almost impossible unless the entire infrastructure has been updated--which costs millions of dollars that universities do not likely to spend (at least not without a major campaign).

    All of these computers--Macs, PCs, Linux, Solaris, etc., have no real security policy, they're poorly managed by amatures, and they have a network with no real firewall. Talk about a honeypot!

    Each node on this honeynet is now a prime place for root kit installations. They lie in wait for someone to log in to the right systems and, voila--a password and userid. A keylogger records a legit log-in. Now your cracker is using one of the unmanaged nodes on your network to have his way with your student/employee information system.

    If any university has a better system, I think they're in the minority. Hopefully, this will change. But until then, the inmates run the asylum.

    --

    I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
  38. More odd is your "easy account" practice & CMU by argan0n · · Score: 3, Informative

    I'm not trying to get too personal -- but you don't sound too concerned & that concern's me psychology. :)
    Lately I've been getting the feeling that I take care of my home subnet, on my free time, better than most admins do on the clock.
    I keep up on the latest exploits, re-visit old ones, keep critical (and new) machines well patched, write shellcode to understand BoF/Ret2Libc exploits & employ handfuls of hardening techniques & limits everywhere I can, especially in the Kernel. Then I keep images of my fav installs & nc+dd them onto new boxes when needed... _Then_ I go to work and do the same on many more computers in addition the job I was actaully hired for. I still maintain a social life and even -- gasp -- a lady friend.
    So I do realize there are large factors that go into haveing enough time and infrastructure to admin 1000 vs 100 vs. 10 boxes. But is "easy" just considered routine due to time constraints, even at a fine establishment like CMU?

    If your box was on the net for 24hrs, and it got cracked into, somethings gone wrong in your department.
    I don't consider it much of a "hack" if the admin sets up a deficient system (i.e. easily guessable usernames/password) and puts it live on the Internet without montoring it for brute-forcing; which you allude to. One cannot rely on a 3rd party to inform them that machines in their domain are hacked. It only takes a few key punches to duplicate very good securiy efforts after you've done them once.
    I'd be interested in knowing what the exploit vector was (if you did the above) if you guys are able do I.R. after a breach. Or even bother to image the drive for later...

    I dunno, but I see a pattern here with locations that put busy, course-loaded students in the employ of guarding the subnets...

    --
    argan0n
  39. correction by Councilor+Hart · · Score: 1
    Although the only time the police asked for it, was one time I got hit (lightly) by a car while on my bike. I have to make an correction. I also showed my ID card at the police station when I had my bike marked as my property. That is done to prevent theft, and in case of theft the police can return it to me, should they stumble across it.
    My old crappy (inherited) bike got stolen in two years time. My new, marked bike is still with me after 4 years. And I live in a University town. As you know, in such a town, stealing^H borrowing bikes is common as breathing air.

    So once again, my ID card is used in my favour. You could say, the same could have been accomplished with a driver ID card or a SSN. To which I will, again, ask: then what is the difference?
    Thanks for the replies so far.

    1. Re:correction by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      So once again, my ID card is used in my favour. You could say, the same could have been accomplished with a driver ID card or a SSN. To which I will, again, ask: then what is the difference?

      A SSN / Tax IDmay be issued at birth, or may be issued at a later time and is not nor should it be used for identification. It's a tax id number issued by a federal agency. It's directly related to employment, income, education, and money (loans / rent). SSN for nationals, Tax ID for resident aliens. This is NOT an ID card.

      There is also the Selective Service card that all males must get when they turn 18. This is used only if there is a draft, i.e. forsed military service which we haven't had since the Vietnam war I believe. This is NOT an ID card and the form is at the post office, a federal agency. To be honest I don't know who handles this information.

      Passports are ID and are issued by the federal goverment. This IS an ID but seldom used except to travel.

      A drivers license or non driver "ID card" is issued at the state level, not the federal level. There is no national driver's license. This IS an ID card.

      If they Feds want you for any reason they have to go through your State's beurocrasy. While we do have a federal government, States have their own sovereign rights to an extent. A National ID is seen by many as an infringement of a state's rights to protect it's citizens from the federal government. They could allow the federal government to circumvent rights a state gives to it's residents which would normaly require a court order. If another state wants a citizen for any reason, they have to go though the beurocrasy of the state that you are in, or are a resident of. The federal government has NO reason to track it's citizens except in cases of foreign travel, forced conscription, and taxes all of these are separate agencies for good reason, it helps protect our privacy.

      There is no compelling reason I can see to switch to a national system when the state system works perfectly well. Imagine 28x Belgium's population in an area about 315x the size. It makes an good sense from an organization standpoint to organize the population of 293 million people into 50 parts. Plus, a state can choose to leave the Union, a major issue addressed after the American Civil war. The last time I heard this being discussed was Hawaii back in 1996/1997.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    2. Re:correction by Councilor+Hart · · Score: 1

      Lett me first thank you for the reply.
      Another question. Regardless if it is state level or federal level. There are several different numbers, stored in several different DB's used for several different purposes. All in the hands of govn branches. What is to stop them from tying it all together?
      Suppose you have one ID number, rendering access to several different DB's. Acces to one DB is limited to the relevant govn branch. You offcourse have access to all data, since it's all about you. The govn can indeed abuse its power and access the other DB's. But they could in the first/current example as well. This second example limits the amount of numbers/cards you need to know/have. One card for the govn, one for each bank,...
      One card or many, identity theft could still happen.
      Why is state trusted more than federal? If there was no federal, would you trust city council more than state?

    3. Re:correction by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      Another question. Regardless if it is state level or federal level. There are several different numbers, stored in several different DB's used for several different purposes. All in the hands of govn branches. What is to stop them from tying it all together?

      We would. It's a very unpopular idea, so most Senators or Represenativive who want to be re-elected would vote for this, I would hope. I can't think of a good comercial reason national IDs so very little chance of business lobbying for this idea. Still if not regected by either the Executive (President) or Congressional (Senate and House of Represenatives), it's bloody likely that this issue would be taken up with the Judicial branch. This is affectionately described as the three ring circus.

      Suppose you have one ID number, rendering access to several different DB's. Acces to one DB is limited to the relevant govn branch. You offcourse have access to all data, since it's all about you. The govn can indeed abuse its power and access the other DB's. But they could in the first/current example as well.

      Any one agency can abuse it's power irregardless. But when you put all the cookies in one jar it just makes it easier. Keeping the cookies in seperate jars makes it more likely that someone is noticed diping where they shouldn't.

      This was best described by someone else in this way, "We're a bunch of loonies who get scared of our own shadow and try to kill it with our shotgun." And in many ways this is true.

      This second example limits the amount of numbers/cards you need to know/have. One card for the govn, one for each bank,..

      This is pretty much what we have already. Social or tax ID for matters of money, and state issued drivers license / ID card for identity. Though Social isn't used as id, it's that stupid piece of paper that falls apart.

      Thoughts of paranoia aside of giving the federal government too much information, this would increase the number of cards in our wallet by one. Driver's licenses is a State agency, not federal one. A national ID wouldn't prove you have the right to drive. To me the very thought would be redundant.

      Thoughts of paranoia range from too much information held by one agency, and non-citizen's rights.

      Why is state trusted more than federal? If there was no federal, would you trust city council more than state?

      Bear in mind that America is rather young. Not everyone lives in a city. For example, I'm from a place that only became a city in 1994.

      It's not so much that the state is more trusted than federal but more about keeping existing checks and balances. One is a citizen of America but a resident of a state, district if you live in the national capital, or territory as is the case with Puerto Rico, Guam... etc. If as a State you don't like what the Federal government is doing, you can fight or choose to leave the Union and form your own country, though leaving the union is unheard of but is ultimate final legal remedy available. In turn if you don't like what your state is doing you can again fight either locally or though the federal system or leave and move to a different state.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
  40. Re:um... isc.sans.org? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    isc.sans.org

    To see how f'ed up the Internet is today. The color changes actually do mean something there as opposed to the constant and useless level of panic at homeland security.

  41. Re:More odd is your "easy account" practice & by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    "Lately I've been getting the feeling that I take care of my home subnet, on my free time, better than most admins do on the clock."

    Fucking A. I'm with you on this 100%. Granted, I run OpenBSD at home, but that doesn't mean I just sit back and pretend like everything is okay. I check the errata at least twice a day and act on the updates/patches as soon as I get a free couple of seconds in my day. I have pf setup to my likings and haven't had a problem since I installed OpenBSD. No, I'm not an OpenBSD fanboy, I'm just making my claim--YMMV.

    In short: there is simply no excuse to be lazy/relaxed about security. Call me paranoid, but I'd like to keep MY data to myself.

  42. Whay can you do with SSN? by northcat · · Score: 1

    What can "identity theives" do with another person's SSN? (I'm not an American, I don't know)

    1. Re:Whay can you do with SSN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...first, they can start wiping clean your bank accounts, retirement accounts (potentially exposing you to tax penalties as well), putting your networth down to zero; and that's just a start; then, they can start getting new credit cards, or whatever line of credit in your name (which they will be unlikely to pay off on your behalf); putting your networth into high negative numbers; and then, the fun really starts: like, applying for all sort of IDs (driving licenses, passport, you name it) in your name, and start commiting crimes (well, rather keep on comitting crimes but this time) with your identity, potentially having you sent to jail (you'll be likely to be caught, 'cause you won't be hiding); well, theorically, you should get your money back (and possibly get out of jail, leaving behind your new very special tatooed friend Earl), but it will take a very long time and a lot of explaining to do to a great many agencies (who won't believe you), and quite some effort and expenses, to get (most of) your life back.

  43. Can someone help me? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Businesses here have to provide their social security number (padded with B01 for business use) on their invoices.

    Social security numbers here (Netherlands) are not as big of an issue I think..whether someoen knows it or not.. I think unlike in the USA, not EVERYTHING is identified by that number.. And I think other security steps are in place, (passport and picture) to do anything useful with a social security number.

    So I'm wondering how this is different in the USA, other than that you have no laws protecting privacy like we do/did, where any company (including website) here who wants to store any private information, must ask for permission from a governmental institution overseeing privacy protection (law on personal information registration "wet op registratie persoonsgegevens"), and JUSTIFY why they need that information to function as a business, and all the laws and rules regarding how they must store and protect that information and can or can not link their database with other databases without permission, etc.

    But I'm not sure exactely how this is in the US, except anybody can just make a website and collect personal data legally, .. as long as you can blame people doing it, on their stupidity and point them on their individual responsibilities and common sense (individualism, causing big social problems there, from addiction, crime, to what more.. since society as a whole is not taking responsibility for the weakness of an individual and their dependency on environmental factors for their behavior).

    Peace

  44. WARNING TO: Database maintainers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    E-Fuckin-Nuff Already!

    We the people are sick of your fucking domestic terrorism shit.

  45. It's GSIA, nothing to see here, move along by DJ+Wipeout · · Score: 1

    GSIA couldn't admin their way out of a wet paper bag, at least, not when I worked for Computing Services back in the day.

    "Tepper School of Business"....LOLOLOLOL

  46. Re:More odd is your "easy account" practice & by maxpublic · · Score: 1

    Lately I've been getting the feeling that I take care of my home subnet, on my free time, better than most admins do on the clock.

    I think you'd be right. When I was consulting it never ceased to amaze me just how little was done to secure the network at most places. Whether corporate or government it didn't make a difference.

    I don't think this is a lackadaisical attitude towards security in particular, but the fact that IT departments tend to attract the least competent people in the computer sciences.

    I know my home network is more secure than most of the businesses/government agencies I consulted for even though I could certainly do more to improve it.

    Max

    --
    My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?
  47. picture id's by Tharkban · · Score: 1

    I'd like to point out that picture id's are silly. How do you decide whether the person in front of you is the person on the card's picture?

    I worked as an election judge in Colorado and they explicitly told us not to bother looking at the photo on the id. The law specified it had to be a photo id, but we were told not to care what the picture on it looks like. People change, you can't recognize them reliably.

    What prevents someone from fraudulently opening a PayPal account for you and using it on your behalf? The system has problems, and there are no simple fixes.

    Perhaps everyone should be required to carry a card with an RSA key on it, if you lose it you create a revocation certificate and get a new one. Doesn't that sound like fun? I'm sure grandma will love it.

    --
    Tharkban (It is a signature after all)
    1. Re:picture id's by me_cynical · · Score: 1

      The point of picture id's is not to create a foolproof system, that is not possible, it's just to make it reasonably hard to steal somebody's identity. Having to show up somewhere and have your id scrutinized is a lot harder for a thief than sitting in front of a computer somewhere in the world.

      Being told to ignore the picture on a picture id but still require it sounds just a tad stupid to me. Bouncers compare pictures to faces every night with reasonable success. Same goes for the police during traffic stops. Of course I can't speak about the motivation and goals of the people who so instructed you.

      As for the PayPal issue, I think you missed my point. You would be required to show up to open an account, that was the point of the first part of the post. The real benefit of the PayPal system is that you log in to authorize each individual payment, that way your card can't be charged by just anyone that happens to have come across the card number, thereby taking care of the "public secret" problem. The problem you describe would be taken care of by the showing up part.

      As for those logins, a smart card of some variety with some sort of key would probably be a good idea. If your grandmother is able to do business online, I'm sure she could learn to deal with a keycard as well. Sometime in the past people didn't have locks on their houses/caves/huts/whatever, unfortunately it's necessary now, regardless of what grandmothers in the past felt. Just because your grandma might not like something doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. I still love my grandmothers...

      --
      A furore Normanorum libera nos, O Domine! [From the fury of the norsemen deliver us, O Lord!] -- Medieval prayer
  48. Re:Social Security # Secure Number by blackomegax · · Score: 1

    how does one opt out of instant credit?
    who handles instant credit?

  49. Ever hear of a salt? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it makes it alot harder to do that.

    1. Re:Ever hear of a salt? by Al+Clocker · · Score: 1

      Yes, I have. Salt was not mentioned. Besides, the point is that hashing does not encrytion make. But I'm sure you know that already.

    2. Re:Ever hear of a salt? by finkployd · · Score: 1

      Well, since the salt is the only piece that actually does anything, why not just dispense with the hash (which is useless in this small of a sample space) and use the salt as a symetric encryption key? That is basically what you are doing anyway.

  50. California Civil Code dude by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    section 1798.85 dude, look it up (somewhere on www.ca.gov). A company (health insurance or whatever) cannot use your SSN# on an ID card (or if they do, you can have them remove it); moreover, unless you are in the habit of applying for a new credit card, or borrowing money for a house or car every few days, you might be better off putting a security freeze on your credit files (must be done at all three credit bureau and it will cost you 10 bucks for each one of them -- imagine that: you have to pay these guys to stop helping bad guys from ripping you off...)

    The FAA used to use SSN# as pilot certificate numbers; that is, for folks dumb enough NOT to read the fine prints on the various FAA forms such as 8710-1 or 8500-8 which say in effect ''yes, we are asking you for this number, but you don't really have to give it to us, your choice,'' and the old FAA databases made this info (including street address...) publically available (no, this is no longer the case, but I bet you can still find the old CDs up for sale on ebay)

  51. Re:Social Security # Secure Number by Luke-Jr · · Score: 1

    If it's not meant to be somewhat secure, then why was it illegal for a long time (perhaps even today) for anyone other than your employer and the IRS to require it?

    --
    Luke-Jr
  52. Because... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Because it's very convenient to use your SSN for an ID number. Even the goverment does it. Think about how many numbers you go to the trouble of memorizing. Your SSN, your ATM pin, your phone number, and maybe one or two others. What would happen if everyone you dealt with issued their own ID number for you? Not too convenient for the majority, who don't have a PDA.

    The problem with the SSN is it was designed and is being used as an indetifier. It was never intended to be an authenticator, but is being misused that way by many. So the problem isn't getting the SSN removed from databases, the problem is educating those who try to use it as an authenticator that it isn't.

    One way to solve the problem would be for the government to announce they are going to publish the list of names and SSNs in 6 months. They also announce that anyone still using the SSN as an authenticator after 5 months will be held libel for any losses. This only puts a burden on those who are misusing them for authentication.

    The problem of a replacement authenticator is left as an exercise for the student.

  53. Wrong Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The question is not one about what academic departments and profs. do or don't with their computer systems. It is one of what SSNs are doing outside of a secured admin (as in school admin, no sysadmin) network? I suppose a partial answer is that they are using SSNs for student IDs.

    But until the world realizes that SSNs aren't authenticators, student IDs shouldn't be SSNs. If the world ever wises up, then SSNs make perfect student IDs. Of course your name should be a good ID, but the collision space is too high.

    1. Re:Wrong Question by catdevnull · · Score: 1

      Our University changed this particular item for just these reasons. We don't use SSNs as identifiers for anything but taxes for those getting paid. Still, that information *IS* in the system--if you're getting a paycheck. However, if a cracker gets in deep enough, he's going to have enough information about a given set of users to be dangerous.

      --

      I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
  54. Not as relevant as you'd think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OS type is entirely irrelevant if someone walks off with a laptop or social engineers a secretary.

    It's also misleading if the OS were reported without a review of the patch level, and the sysadmins level of official paranoia (i.e. did [s]he tighten all the security knobs and have and enforce a good password policy, etc.). It doesn't matter much if you are running OpenBSD and set the root password to "root".

    Suppose they had announced it was a Win2k system. The /. crowd would get a lot of mileage out of it. But if the system had never been patched, and the Administator password is admin, it's pretty worthless to crow about. "My OS is more secure than an unlocked door! Yippee."

  55. The Slashdot UID && The SSN by mfh · · Score: 1

    It is this mismatch which is causing the potential identity theft and security problems.

    Imagine if you could sign into a Slashdot account with only the UID! We'd all sign in as CmdrTaco and start posting news about Tribbles and whatever else met our approval.

    --
    The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
  56. Re:This is precisely the reason to think about dat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Adequate physical security would at least tend to whittle down the list of suspects, should a theft of documents occur, unless everybody off the street has untrammeled access to the records room.

  57. Re:What's the worst thing about niggers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    They have larger penises than the Aryan race

    And that alone makes me wish I was black. Plus they dance better.

  58. They've got to be! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm only 001-1234-202, and there's a lot more people over here... or so the media tells me!