Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Demands Removal Of Longhorn Images
bonch writes "After the previously reported release of the Longhorn beta at this year's WinHEC, Neowin and other Windows sites are reporting that Microsoft is going around sending legal letters demanding removal of Longhorn Build 5048 screenshots. Paul Thurrott discusses it on his site, stating that Microsoft never told anyone beforehand not to post screenshots of the publicly available beta, and links to the new galleries he has up now. 'Enjoy it while it lasts.'"
Maybe Microsoft is afraid Apple will steal some of its features?[1]
Or perhaps Microsoft just needs more time to cover up what they stole?[2]
On slightly different note but on topic, did anyone else notice how the Recycle Bin icon's shadow slants left while the text's shadow slants right?
[1]hahahahahahaaaaahahahaa
[2]most likely imho
How fitting for the article at hand.
To me this pretty much looks like Microsoft ran the screenshots up the metaphoric flagpole and didn't like the salutes. Instead of spinning it as beta (which we in the IT community have come to understand, if not respect) and appropriately rough-edged, Microsoft apparently has decided to take the low road and is going to hold its breath until it turns blue (irony). Too bad, the images do suck, but I think Microsoft in its eagerness to prove "me too" for having a cool new OS stumbled mightily this time. Fortunately, having $50B petty cash makes recovery from these inconveniences convenient.
This has to be my most appropriate experience of the "Nothing to see here, move along" error =)
if the reviewers LIKED it, those screen shots could've stayed up...
Sheesh. Microsoft can't even be original in this -- Apple was way ahead of them.
Apple rumors aren't considered confirmed until there's been at least one notice from Apple Legal.
Thankfully the USofAmerican systems of copyright and trademark laws, as detestable as they may be otherwise, dont give Microsoft any power over when and where people post screenshots of a public beta.
At least now Jobs has something valid to complain about MS copying them.
or was he just psychic?
"Those who cast the votes decide nothing; those who count the votes decide everything." (attrib. Joseph Stalin)
.. Have people been turning to stone?
Starsucks
So, if you do and they then sic the attack-lawyers on you, why are you surprised? Because they didn't do it previously? Guess what? They can pick and choose.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
If not, Microsoft is using it's multimillion dollar legal department to bully people into doing/thinking what they want.
Hold on a minute while I try to not act suprised.
"Powers. I have them."
...give a four year old some marker pens (primary colours) and ask them do draw a UI. There's your screenshots. :)
Ticking off one of your most unabashedly positive supporters: that's ALWAYS the ticket to success.
stored on computers from birth to the grave
USofAmerican Systems of Copyright and Trademark laws(tm) Inc.
First Apple sues to get the names of the people who leaked the Tiger release and now Microsoft is shitting all over people posting screenshots of Longhorn.
It won't be long until every independant source of information in the US is silenced and/or will only be allowed to publish press releases. Yes, companies have a right to protect their intellectual property and trade secrets, but that right is not universal and must always be weighed against the interests of the public's right to know.
I can't see how these screenshots have harmed Microsoft in any way and this whole affair is beginning to look like a ham-handed approach to a information related to a beta release.
You'd think they would look at this as a cheap customer survey. They could fix or amend any features that the user community thought were less than appealing.
No, Bill and Steve had to reach for the lawyers again.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
It would be a shame if apple copied MIcrosoft's style and UI design, once again.
GoatPigSheep, the 3 most important food groups
The screen shots I've seen so far have been UTTERLY unimpressive. Essentially XP with a different color scheme. IE 6, Media Player 10, etc, etc, etc.
It's hard to hype a product when there is so much evidence showing the opposite.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Look at the screen shop showing "My Music".
Now look at the top left explorer bar and see the link that says "Purchase Music".
Could this be why? Where does the link go? Isn't that illegal in the settlement with the justice dept/EU.
Just curious,
Enjoy
It's just the normal noises in here.
Screenshots? Who the hell needs screenshots when you can get the entire operating system yourself?
So I'm guessing here that as the legal threats proliferate, screencaps of that Longhorn desktop with the shadow of the Recycle Bin icon pointing the wrong way will become rare, treasured files seen only occasionally on places like obscure P2P networks and private IRC channels, kind of like that postage stamp with the upside down airplane, only in .jpg format.
So, umm... If Microsoft is so evil, are supposed to go to the web pages and help them get it Slashdotted off the 'net? Or not? Life's so confusing!
So why the hubbub with this round of images?
...er...Longhorn?
MS is going to spend millions promoting this OS to stay in the spotlight as being innovative.
So what are they ascared of?
Are they scared Apple will copy them?
Are they scared some update of Tiger will take eyecandy from Copycat?
No, but windows are copyright and full of patents. So each time someone put some windows out in the air, they must ask Microsoft :"Can I put some windows out that the public might see?" in a Legal format paper with bank account numbers, signature, how much windows did you buy in the last years, and if you like pink rabbit.
No sig for now.
Looks better, is available today, is free and just works.
Why does Microsoft keep making icons larger and larger. I don't need an icon the size of a matchbook to tell me "hey this here represents a picture you can click on to access its contents."
One of the first things to do when setting up windows is to turn on detail listings as the default.
If Microsoft put it in their Eula, wouldn't that only pertain to those that installed the software and agreed to the Eula? Or, does anybody that sits down at the computer automagically accept the Eula even though they never saw it? I think that Microsoft is trying to enforce a black and white world. Anyhow, I think that Microsoft should just ride along with the free advertisement, rather then make more people upset with them.
people are going to start to realize that if you have to send out 2323094902340 announcements threatening legal action to remove content, then the word might already be out, and you just wasted a good portion of your legal department's time.
-- http://www.criticalassets.com
Is their calendar broken? April 1st? One of the best jokes I have heard this year!
Or should I also ask and threaten people to remove screenshots of my beta releases?
regards - michal
"Apparently, there is a condition in the EULA preventing people from posting screenshots. Nobody saw anything like that."
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles/Index.cfm?Ar
ajf
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...forget about the Longhorn screenshots, check the 'use large icons' in your copy of XP display settings, then apply a charcoal gray colour scheme.
;-) but those screenshots don't look different enough from XP for me to even <i>care</i> that they're up on the web.
I'm not intending to Microsoft bash here (I'm even happy to use an 's' in their name rather than a '$' sign
The gift of death metal does not smile on the good looking.
So in Longhorn, can I drag documents onto a button on the taskbar to open it, rather than holding the mouse down waiting for the app to appear?
"I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX
Interesting, BTW, how all those car magazines get away with pictures of pre-production prototytpes snapped during their road-tests. Somehow, car manufacturers don't see a problem there.
Having said that, if he agreed not to do it he shouldn't. Period.
Who's gonna enjoy preview pics of Longhorn?
;-)
Slashdot is getting stranger and stranger
$200 for that? I'll wait.
This is my sig.
This is going to be the problem in IT, too much legal messing about, both in forms of submarine patents and EULA with incredible conditions.
From the Blog
Honestly, how many of you read fully the EULA that comes with the SW you download ?
What if at some point a company tells you that you have violated their EULA and demands money ?
Sadly, the law, does not obey to "common sense" and "by law" you will be obliged to pay...
Solutions ?, maybe an EULA that is no longer than 25 lines (80 characters each long) ?
I bet it just seemed like a good free way to generate publicity for Longhorn.
Is it just me or are the windows boot screen logos getting more bland and uninspired? The 9x series had those nice and colorful 256 color x mode screens. The NT systems have the high resolution 16 color screens. 2000 was pretty bad; too much white. XP and 2003 have pretty decent logos. Ok, but look at this. I know it's a beta, but something tells me that this largely monochrome logo will make it into the final version. They didn't even add color to the windows logo; it's just a silhouette.
Where can I find a list of enhancements that are due in Longhorn?
:-))
How about the same for Linux kernel 2.6.12 or distros using it?
At first glance, and I haven't seen or heard much, it seems that Linux distros will be offering much more?? (ie. Xen, *maybe* Reiser4, interface and X.org enhancements (some of them toys
Vip
They want their meme back!
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
...Microsoft should be able to reach into everyone's hard drives and delete the offensive images, right?
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
Did anyone notice that there seems to be a move to have a bit of an apple look and feel? Really weird, and doesn't actually look that good.
One hopes that they have their legions of UI designers doing cool stuff, this is early enough in the process that this may just be a rough mockup.
...the new panel-based layout for the Longhorn BSOD.
I guess Microsoft is afraid that Apple would snag that oh-so-yummy Longhorn interface. With a couple days 'til Tiger launches, Apple could put in a serious cram session to update the look. Cram Apple, cram!!!
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
Yes, companies have a right to protect their intellectual property and trade secrets, but that right is not universal and must always be weighed against the interests of the public's right to know.
The public has a right to know what Microsoft's Longhorn beta looks like? Sure, the website owners should probably have the right to publish screenshots as they are testing the software (barring NDAs and such), but the public having a right to said screenshots?
You have a very skewed idea of rights, my friend. Should I introduce my right to know your online purchases for the past year?
Does anybody have a screenshot of that Eula? Or were those ordered to be taken down, also?
Oh wait, nevermind, still XP.
I've already seen Windows 95, and Longhorn doesn't look to much degree any different. The desktop has always been themable, but it looks like the new theme is harder to navigate. Looks like 10 years in the wrong direction, compared with OSX and Tiger.
See I only thought it sucked before, but now, that I know Microsoft is trying to cover up the Longhorn Shots, I know for sure Longhorn does suck. Why hide a good thing ... but hiding something $hitty makes all the sense in the world.
Granted, it isn't a radical departure from XP. It almost looks like Luna running a different theme.
But I like it.
It's about time someone had the gumption to put forth a clean and understated UI. Lord knows we have more than enough in-your-face real-estate-hogging themes floating around out there to satisfy even the most testoterone-laden adolescent.
I haven't been truly satisfied with any minimal UI appearance since the early-nineties heyday of NeXTstep and IRIX. I never thought I'd say it, but thank god for Microsoft. I hope, in spite of the underwhelming public feedback, that they continue down this more mature and elegant route.
I'm no MS lover, but they've come a long way from the disaster that XP's default look is.
antipaucity
Don't let them see we haven't changed anything yet!
Perhaps we should follow through with removing Microsoft products, everywhere. ;)
The postman hits! The postman hits! You have mail.
Pirating the entire OS is rather different from posting screenshots. I don't think anybody can argue that leaking the beta was anything like legal. This, though...
If the condition is on *posting* screenshots, thn it's meaningless, even if the EULA was enforceable in its' entirety - just give the screenshots to someone else to post. (Say, someone who uses Linux and hasn't agreed to a MS EULA in their lives.)
Now look at the top left explorer bar and see the link that says "Purchase Music".
What is Windows becomming? A store? What is next? A:, C:, Ebay:???
Seriously, I don't want Windows doing anything more than being an OS. I don't want it becomming a salesperson, I don't want it becomming a DRM cop.
But I think they will continue to sell their OS as the only x86 option available. Linux? Microsoft or SCO will sue them into oblivion. It will go the way of Napster. Does wrong or right matter when you have an army of lawyers? If you don't believe me look at music sharing 4 years ago compared to today. Step #1, buy some members of congress, get them to pass new laws. Step #2, form an industry organization. Step #3, sue and make the targets highly visable, scare people. Step #4, distribute faulty crap to frustrate people.
All this almost makes me want to switch to a Mac, if only they were not so bloody expensive. I just can't get myself to pay $1500+ for a computer. I've never spent more than $500 on any machine I have ever owned, with the exception of my laptop.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
If it did, someone would have cloned it on Wincustomize.com by now, and saved us the time and trouble of waiting for LittleBigHorn's actual release.
Oh, well, what do you expect from Microsoft, the company that gave XP the Fisher-Price user interface in the first place!
(I'm not bashing Microsoft! I use the Korn shell!)
"My country, right or wrong; if right, to be kept right; and if wrong, to be set right." --Senator Carl Schurz (1872)
Rather than using beta-test criticism as a way to improve the quality of their product, they react as if someone had called their kid bad names on the playground.
Raise your children as if you were teaching them to raise your grandchildren, because you are.
Microsoft don't want you to realise how little has Lonhghorn has changed from XP until you've bought and installed it.
But all that R&D for "look and feel"!!
I dont feel sorry for them as they copy linux' look.............
I agree! So they hired an artist to make a better looking start button. Wow, do I really need to upgrade to get a better looking start button?!
I'd much rather have drag and drop easy installations.
No registry to screw up.
No shared DLL's.
Performance.
And to never have to install a print driver again.
Over that kind of ugly!
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
In some ways this is like when a movie is about to be released, but the studio will not let the critics screen the film. If a studio knows their $70,000,000 film sucks that bad, they know better than to let critics screen it. It is time to get the PR people over to yahoo and amazon to leave 5 star reviews.
Plus, the screen shots MS gave out, there was nothing special there. Nothing secret. Nothing new. If someone did not tell me it was a new Windows, I would have guessed someone got a new wallpaper for their XP machine.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
this is perhaps the only thing thurrot has ever written that i've liked.
who is she? leave a comment!
What it boils down to is that there may be certain technologies in the Longhorn Developer Preview build for which Microsoft has not filed patent applications, and the confidentiality provisions protect or mitigate the company's filing rights.
I guess "Developers! Developers! Developers!" was too "Open" or something.
Meanwhile telling people to get them off their websites is a guaranteed method of making sure everyone will download them and save them and look them over much more critically, trying to figure out what Ms doesn't want them to see. Pretty effective marketing, really.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
So there is nothing secretive or groundbreaking in the fact that the next version of Windows keeps the already existing feature.
Everyone's like "Hmm must be b/c they look like AZZ!"
But you know, if I were MS, I'd have the default look like something people were familiar with. And I wouldn't put the crazy visual stuff in until the end - you know, to keep it interesting. The thing probably currently just has the WinXP visual UI grafted onto it (as yet), and MS just doesn't want people thinking that that's the way its going to end up looking.
Either that, or it was the spicy pr0n those dudes were using as wallpaper! Yowza!
"They promised to "wow" us all with a whole new Windows experience"
And they succeeded. I can honestly say their new "Shut Do..." menu option in the Beta truly did make me go "wow".
As in "Wow, WTF are they thinking?"
Seriously, just how much work do they have left on this "Beta"? Getting kind of late in the game to have such glaring UI problems.
Nevertheless, I really wonder how many of MS' GUI designers actually consider function over pretty colors. Not to be an Apple fanboy (I don't even own a mac), but OSX's GUI seems to have function as well as slickness. I'm anxious to see if Longworn :D will do the same.
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
Longhorn screenshot here --> HERE
Judging from those screenshots, Longhorn is going to be the best Windows XP skin ever. Can't let the cat out of the bag too early...
I already saw it, too late for you.
-Jesse
Nothing says "unprofessional job" like wrinkles in your duct tape.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
So uh, why is Longhorn is taking so long to release? Are they redrawing all the icons again? The icons are still all pixelated. Oh I heard they're implimenting hard links and soft links on the file system. I can understand why that would take 2 years to impliment. Wait a minute, wasn't that what they were advertising as a huge feature that was going to be in win2k? Whatever... I'm SOOOO GLAD I run OSX these days. Longhorn should be called long in the tooth.
open source needs to start suing people for displaying screen shots of opensoucre programs, if they want to be taken seriously
so the world didn't fall on their knees and worship the screenshots....they must all be taken down.
but...
MS got more slashdot love...mission accomplished?
In following that idea that programmers no longer write applications or programs (they write "solutions"), notice that the Media Player is no longer a "program", it's the "Windows Media Platform".
Bleagh.
The "minimize" and "maximize" icons are now even closer to the "close" icon, and the "close" icon is even larger. Yay, it's even easier for me to accidentally close windows.
I heard Bill Gates pulled all of a publisher's books off the shelves of Microsoft stores just because they put out a book that said mean things about him!
Am I the only person who thought it looked vaguely like the default desktop for SUSE? My coworker thinks it looks like Gnome, so what do I know?
Seriously, why would you say people suck because of what MS does?
Maybe you misread the subject that you deleted.
It said "First Post People Suck". Nothing about Microsoft.
If one of my "most unabashedly positive supporters" said my OS had "the makings of a train wreck" I'd go postal on people like that too. They and their zealous IP lawyers probably consider the GUI features part of the distribution and thus (like Longhorn) copyrighted material that should not have been so publicly released in the first place.
Longhorn screenshot takers across the Internet, I think, should be cautious. I do wonder what it means for other Windows screenshots: does Microsoft have rights to the widgets and the like, and should users prepare to be sued for taking their pictures? Just wondering...
You can hold down the "B" button for continuous firing.
Here is a mirror of a screen shot. Not very impressive if you ask me...
microsoft is trying to cash in on some of that sweet, sweet "apple is suing the rumor sites" PR action.
longhorn betas and delays are such a non-story right now that the only way people will pay attention to MS is if they start acting all nutty and alienating their enthusiast core. kinda like apple does every six months just before or after a big product announcement. they get a story about the rumors. then a story about the lawsuit, which reinforces the rumors as true. then a story about the product itself, and another about how close the rumors really were. then another after the lawsuit is settled or dropped.
it's worked for jobs for years, and kept apple in the news even when there haven't been anything really to write about, and finally MS is catching on.
- Entertaining Bits from the Ancient Kernel Tree
WTF?
Is patent really the correct protection to use for a UI? The better have invented some amazing ideas for their UI.
Someone should have patented the remote control. They would have made billions!
What then?
Its not like they are 'innovating' and risking it being copied as its just some lame eye candy that looks about like everything else.. Screen shots don't tell you anything about the system underneath..
At this stage in the game unless its a RADICAL departure from traditional GUI desktops, they are all about the same..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
According to Thurrot, MS was afraid someone might try to steal their UI. What a joke. Who the hell goes to Windows to figure out how to design a UI? Hell, if their competition decided to copy the Windows UI, it would only help MS anyway.
NO LOHNGR...
Asking someone to remove something and sending out a legal threat is entirely different. Oh wait this is slashdot and the blurb never matches whats in the actual article.
Have you ever been to a turkish prison?
The shots are just t e r r i b l e! My god, just for a second I thougt that MS might get his act together, but this is just plain sad.
Yes, I am a switcher, sosumi
The biggest problem hurting Microsoft these days is ironically its success. It has so much of the market share in the desktop os market, that it cannot afford to make a clean break with its code and start anew. They must maintain backwards compatability with all the legacy programs. They tried to break from 16 bit computing over a decade ago, but their efforts are still hacks.
Unitl they make a clean break from the hacks on hacks patches on hacked patches, the insanity will grow.
If they start to lose market share in the next 5 years or so, I predict that after the longhorn turd swirls down the toilet that Microsoft will try to hack-up some franken OS on top of Unix/Linux/Free BSD or the like, since thier security model is a piece of shit.
People's suckage has nothing to do with MS. People manage to suck plenty all by themselves. You have obviously never worked in retail where you can see the masses up close and personal.
-- Thou hast strayed far from the path of the Avatar.
Isn't it amazing how much this looks like Win XP SP2? Even the items in the control panels are the same. There's no indication of any new features but maybe they are just hiding well? However this definitely looks like it is going to be one of the upgrades with the fewest changes. Maybe you could compare it to Win95->Win98 but even that provided a new file system and a new driver model among other (minor) improvements and took only three years compared with around 5 years for this upgrade. I can't believe how it can cost so much money to make? I think some of the developers at m$ are getting waaay to hige wages and are spending too much of their time making fine diagrams (over-UML'ing even simple interactions or obvious structures) and selling trivial ideas etc. and maybe surfing on the internet. Unforunately this behaviour is not uncomomn for companies in environments with little actual competition. I have experienced this myself - I was in a department (on another project) where most people worked and worked on a project so simple I don't even want to explain it here, and nothing happened except for the production of hundreds of various types of UML diagrams and a lot of meetings. I didn't want to say anything to my boss about it because I'm not that kind of person - but I was very surprised that he never questioned what was going on or took any action considering the obvious interest. That is what is so bad about lack of competition. I really hope Linux will soon catch up - in all areas - with Windows XP and become a genuine alternative for a large percentage of users.
I see brushed aluminum is the new Aqua. And I thought people were kidding about that whole Microsoft ripping off Apple thing.
thurrott's website says the reason for the confidentiality is that there may be technology in this preview that hasn't yet seen patents filed. no way did they let anything out the door without provisional patents filed.
How can someone micro and soft trusted to come up with longhorn?
Um...
HAHAHHA!! OMFG M$ IS TEH SUXX0RZ!!! HAHAHAHA!!
Sorry. Won't happen again.
Enjoy it while it lasts
Enjoy ? This is Longhorn, I'm not enjoying anything !
I mod the newspost +1 Funny.
Googling for "Longhorn" returns 46,600 images...
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
How many people just now looked at the longhorn screenshots for the first time?
Now that Microsoft doesn't want you to see them, doesn't it make you want to see them even more?
Like Thurrott says:
When someone asked why they were doing this, Chris Pirillo quipped, "because it looks like #$%," which I thought was the appropriate response.
Most appropriate indeed.
Linux/Open Source/Anti Microsoft News
They really are copying Apple.
Someday a real rain is gonna come...
Wow, and I was expecting at least an iso.
"And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Savior of the World"
1 John 4:14
As far as I'm concerned they can keep it.
Who exactly likes the ugly textured grey anyway?
I got here just in time to copy all the images of Longhorn so that I can email them to all my email list. Then on second thought, why would anyone really care what Longhorn is going to look like? It will come your way soon enough when MS stops support for XP and says that Longhorn is their only safe product.
I wouldn't tell someone to install Windows just as I wouldn't tell them to jump out of the window. I would feel like such a bastard.
diegoT
In this case, Microsoft might actually be right (means: they have the legal right to do so).
It is highly questionable if their strategy will result in anything that can be called succes.
Screenshots of a programm do actually fall under the copyright of the company who created a programm. It might be legal to show a single screenshot, framed by a largely discussion (a review, a news item). Your legal system calles that "fair use". A single gallery does not meet that criterion.
Respecting copyright is actually a good thing and if you don't like it, change it.
IANAL (and even if I were, I would not know your legal system).
He would be OK in my book if he did all of those things. I still wouldn't buy his software, though...
Today's lesson: Anything tastes good after a shit sandwich.
I mean, you just know it's bad when, in the midst of an post discussing a new Beta of Windows, the reviewer stops to mention how cool a Newton 2000 is. So, in other words, after seeing this lame attempt at UI, even the competition's discontinued technology looks innovative.
(In frank defense of the Newton, it looks innovative because it was, and is, innovative. Nearly ten years old and nothing comes close to the quality of the Newton interface. It was a brave, bold attempt at a new way to work with a computing device, rather than yet another maladapted windowing interface such is found in WinCE).
I thought the same thing. Are you sure it isn't?
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
Oh man, oh man, I hate to do this... (we're gonna slashdot these guys...), but maybe Microsoft really wants the link to their new Windows "preview" to be this.
Here is a link to lots of long horns http://www.tlbaa.org
Come on Microsoft, haven't you learned yet?
I'm not sure what else this release will have going for it, other than the GUI. They've stripped so many features off of it, the eye candy seems to be the 'big thing'. I can see why they wouldn't want ugly screenshots floating around.
Tech News, Reviews and Tutorials
It's only to make news about longhorn! Now every geek's blog will publish the images just because it's "prohibited" and point "hey! Microsoft tried to remove the shots but here they are!" and everyone will run to see it.
I'm mirroring the screenshots on my blog, so you can stare at the ugly UI for as long as you want.
My website is: http://www.collegechixors.com
I demand removal of IE from my windows! Oh wait...
I don't suppose we'll see thousands of websites with these images in about two hours . . .
... or does that wallpaper look dangerously familiar?
danger
- Kevin
The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act.
So, now, they are shooting down their own fan sites? It's taken them years to even get to beta, even with clearly outstanding flaws in the GUI, so what do they do? They burn their own bridge. While standing on it.
Good work, guys. Maybe your competitors will be nice and hire your employees after you go *poof*.
Yes... come over to the Dark side of the Force...
Seriously. After the train wreck of Longhorn, and now this, how long before the Windows IT Pro Editor gets converted?
Build 5048 is not a beta. It is a stripped down version of Longhorn that contains enough of the system framework for hardware developers to being writing their drivers. This is WinHEC, remember?
Beta is planned for August. The features I work on, and most of the features I've seen in other group's demos, were not merged into this build.
Nope, I'm not talking about MS copying Apple... I'm talking about the submitter, who carefully left out this important point from Thurrott's post:
"Apparently, there is a condition in the EULA preventing people from posting screenshots."
You may continue MS bashing now...
Mozilla stole tabs from NetCaptor. So what? Right?
OK, is it just me, or has Microsoft taken the Apple idea of barely-distinguishable icons for minimize/maximize/close, and made it even worse by making two of them the same color AND made them butt ugly.
The Motif/Windows Classic version may be butt ugly, but at least they're easily distinguishable and big enough to click easily.
And as the years go by, my wife's Mac looks better and better, until I have finally decided to break down and get one myself. If aint about 'the pretty colors' as you put it, it is about PROGRESS.
The kind of progress that we wanted when we went from Win 3.11 to Win 95. The kind of progress we expected when we went from Visual Basic to C#. Or better put, the kind of PROGRESS that we USED to get from Microsoft. Disclaimer: Yeah, I used to work for Microsoft, so fucking what?
The point is; progress seems to be coming slower and slower, in the exact ways that Lucovski pointed out when he left the company. Personally, I am getting sick of hearing about shit, only to later hear that the one thing that would make me spend money beyond MSDN has just gotten ripped out.
Many of us who make our living on Windows and other Microsoft products would like something more to talk about than just .NET. Unless you have had your wife laugh at you as you search for device drivers while she just FUCKING WORKS, knows exactly what I am talking about.
In short, we are fucking fed up.
You are right, it aint about 'pretty colors', it is about showing us that the company can still produce something BETTER than what we had before. If they cant do it in the GUI, why the fuck should we believe that they can do it in the file system?
First impressions are a bitch, and these aint good ones. We've been looking at the same shit for two years now, and I dont see any progress anywhere, just ugly screens of boring shit.
Apple's shit may not be all that much better, but they at the very least manage to put a nice ribbon on it, and act like the shit is special enough to want it.
XP works; Win2K3 works damn well. But, if you are trying to show me something new, the very least you can do is take the time to make sure it aint similar to what we have already seen or at the very least not fucking ugly?
You know, from that one book.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Its not like the screenshots show anything new. As far as I can tell, the guy simply used a different theme on windows xp.
Did anybody ever feel that their having THAT MUCH MONEY in the bank meant that they weren't over charged?
I paid ZIP (NADA FUCK-ALL) for Linux and dick all for OS X (it came with the hardware.) My OS X 10.3.9 upgrades were FREE.
Why should I pay anything for M$s old crap. They only got big by ripping off corporations.
People who never figured they's be stuck using PCs. People who felt that it was cheaper than paying for IBM's OS since they didn't have to pay for IBM's hardware. The PC clone made M$ what it is today.
Sorry but Windows belongs on the x86. Let it die there.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Wow. When I saw the slashdot post, "Jobs Claims Microsoft is Shamelessly Copying" I thought it was just troll fodder. But I guess it's true. Microsoft really is copying Apple!
You can recreate the screenshots yourself. Just save the following to a file longhorn.html:
<html><body bgcolor="BLUE">
Error 0. An unknown driver did something really bad.
</body></html>
Have fun with it.
those folder icons reminds me a *lot* of Next icons. i find that way too early 80's to be any perty.
MS realizes people are gonna see these screenshots, exclaim "so fucking what?" and stick with XP.
Sure they can remove our rights. Sure they can remove our screenshots, but can they remove the viruses?
What I noticed immediately was the "reflection" on the screen depicted in the icon. It looks EXACTLY like a reflection of one of those evil Evil EVIL fluorescent tube light boxes found in every Generic Office Environment.
My guess is the dweeb who designed the icon was so lacking in imagination, that he or she figured "Heck: I gots me a monitor RIGHT HERE!", and here being, of course, their own little hideous Veal Fattening Pen in some dank corner of the M$ campus, where they swelter under the cool ugly fluorescent light boxes, and dress up their miserable cube with little pathetic chatchkies from home to prove that they are Individuals(!).
If this is the quality of art we can expect for Longhorn, I'm certain it will go down well with the dreary "You never got fired for ordering RCA / IBM / Microsoft" PHBs, and will be a subject of excoriation by anyone with more than three brain cells to rub together.
"Heh - looky there! It's got the reflection of them thar fluorescent lights, just like I have over MY HEAD right NOW! Wow - that Microsoft - always thinking of how to make me feel at home..."
Urk. I hope Longhorn is a complete and abject failure, so it forces M$ to get off its ass and make something worthwhile for a change, although, once would be a big improvement.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
All of you complaining about the way the UI looks - IT'S NOT THE FUCKING FINAL UI!
When was the last time you saw an build of Windows this early that had the same UI as the final released product? Only once it gets near RC (release candidate) level do you start seeing the actual UI elements to be used in the final. Win98 doesn't count since it was basically "Win95 OSR3". Even fucking WINDOWS 1.0 had a different UI in early versions. Noone's found any beta information about 2.x or 3.x but I wouldn't be surprised if the early UIs for those were different as well.
Wait for RC1 before you start bitching about the way the UI looks.
I was much more interested to read this :-
This one's bizarre, but we heard at lunch today that Apple is unhappy with the PowerPC production at IBM and will be switching to Intel-compatible chips this very year. Yeah, seriously.
... in Thurrot's blog from this Tuesday.
Huh?!? see this - scroll down to "5.45pm"
One of the screenshots in Gallery 2 hilights Windows Media 'Cool Devices'; Google for 'cool devices', see what comes up first.
I know, there's something wrong wiith me for knowing that.
Sorrry but I've been saddled with it since 3.1.1 (2000 is tolerable, but that's because I really don't expect much,) and it's always been a cheap-ass GUI and it's always looked cheesy. (Okay it was better than G.E.M. but that's really not saying much, is it?.)
OS X Aqua ISN'T cheesy. Almost nothing Apple has done has ever looked cheesy.
My only complaint with Linux is that, while it works, and WORKS, with almost any hardware, including stuff M$ abandoned year's ago, the GUI is still a bit primitive (Andy Hertzfeld was a BIG help to Gnome for pointing them in the right direction.)
Now with the move to 64 bits on the desktop, I think its time to toss out Windows and hang on to billions and billions of our bucks. They're harder to come by nowadays.
Linux is plenty good enough. For those with more style, there's OS X.
When its time to upgrade to 64 bits, I sat lets leave Windows behind.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
When was there a PUBLIC beta of longhorn????
Is it just me? But don't you think that the longhorn icon is too close to the University of Texas' trademarked logo? Unless MS has paid UT for the use of it, I don't see how the longhorn icon that has been floating around passes muster. I mean, even look at the colors! It's all too reminiscent of U Texas. I'm sorry, every time I'll see MS Longhorn, I'll be thinking of U Texas instead and somehow tie the two. Before you go and say that the U Texas logo still looks different than MS Longhorn icon, think about the actions that MS has taken in the past for seemingly different uses: Lindows versus Windows, MS wanting to trademark "Windows," etc. I hope U Texas is looking into this to develop a case against MS.
Linux at home
UI designed primarily for single-button mice.
I like the way it looks like some of the X Windows desktop themes I've had. Still only a single desktop though?
PGA
"The features I work on, and most of the features I've seen in other group's demos, were not merged into this build."
Is your job to add the suck before or after core API's? I assume there are people responsible for both.
"As soon as your copy of XP can keep two folders auto-sync'd over a network, then you give me a call"
And when there is some f*ck up (and there always is with MS) and it loses my data, can we call you then? And will you call it a feature?
Unlike the average Slashdot posting these days, the vendor winning lots of publicity here didn't even have to pay to get on the front page.
Well a while back I was deciding about trying out Longhorn when it is released for public beta testing, or otherwise.
I realize now that Microsoft is too big and lost within it's own corporate divisions.
I have SuSE 9.3 on the way to me, I'll convert back to Longhorn when they finally decide to get things working. Around 2007 - 2008 When your once again forced to a newer operating system due to the end of life and support policies.
While I didn't really give Windows a spin back on v2.0, I did use 3.0 when it first came out, and worked with it ever since.
... but the "magic" to Apple is that they're always making improvements that count. A modern OS X box always feels like a "fluid" work in progress. You never know when running the "Updates" tool will grab some new version of one of your Apple branded applications, a firmware update for a peripheral of theirs, or even a whole new update to OS X itself. When I run a "Windows Update" by contrast, I'm more annoyed than anything else when it has something new for me to download - because hell, other than "Media Player 10", what real new improvements to any of their apps did they send anyone lately? It's always boring "security fixes" for another broken detail in the OS allowing a hacker to compromise something. Basically, just another patch that'll tie up your computer for 10 minutes updating and requiring a reboot - and all so when it's done, things will still run and look exactly like they did before.
The only real meaningful improvements to Windows I saw were 3.1 to '95, and then the release of Windows 2000. XP is a bunch of "candy coating" on top of 2000, and IMHO - all the "NT" versions (3.5, 3.51 and 4.0) were medicore at best.
Now, granted, I'm not even beginning to try to speak for all users. I'm only talking about what I've seen from my perspective. But I've worked in I.T. and computer support for the last 15 years, and I've tried practically all the OS's out at one time or another.
I spent 6 years rolling out NT 3.5, 3.51, 4.0 and finally some Win2K boxes for a mid-sized company, and frankly, it shocked me how many basic administration-related functions were non-existant or cumbersome to use on the server side. We were always buying one 3rd. party product or another to perform a function which I thought should really be handled by a "business class" OS on its own.
A couple years ago, I started switching to Macs and OS X - and now I only have one Windows XP PC left at home. I'm sure I'll hang onto it and it will always have its purposes
bonch writes "After the previously reported release of the Longhorn beta at this year's WinHEC
Is NOT beta... Just an ALPHA crappy builds... nothing more.
1. Shut down is "Shut Do..." 2. White bar next to "Log Off" button could be removed so the two buttons fit. I don't know what the bar is for though. 3. "Control Panel" and "Printers and Faxes" are old-fashion icons.
I have a question, after looking at those pictures I realized something, how could I be sure that it is Windows Longhorn indeed? I mean,I think any middle capable Photoshoper could had made those pictures from a XP Screenshot no? so what? Anyone could have just uploaded some pictures with some legend telling "Microsoft Longhorn Final" in small white font and everyone will believe it is the real thing????
Come one!
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
Here's my favorite quote : ... he has a Newton MessagePad 2000. And it works. Very, very cool.
I've been talking with Peter Glakowsky and
I truly hope he's being sarcastic or... SOMETHING. Anything but admitting he never even gave them a look back in 1997. Of course it still works, of course it's very very cool. Is he finally reconsidering all those years of Apple bashing?
Cwm, fjord-bank glyphs vext quiz
Does anyone really care? Honestly? /.?
Most people here will never use Windows again if they can avoid it, so what's the point of always trash talking it? As someone who wants Microsoft to actually raise the bar a little and see them succeed again, I'dve liked these to be "cooler", but I don't see the point in yet another MS bashing post, aren't there enough of these already on
Like I said, just my $0.02
Doesn't really look like it.
So far none of the screenshots would suggest that the operating system itself has been improved enough to even pass as a new version of the OS...
Unfortunately, I can't help but wonder how many people will see the screenshots and go "Ooh, i like the theme, this looks good..." without even noticing the important points like "Is it smaller and faster?" or "How long before the crapware event horizon" etc... Nope, new OS, it must be good!
My expectations for this OS are pretty low... the "Shut Do..." option doesn't inspire much confidence really...
Here, I have found an offshore website wich still has the goods. Keywords: screenshots, mirror.
You can get them via Google's image cache:
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&lr=&q=http%
When MS bundles an application, people scream monopoly abuse.
When Apple bundles an application, people say how great an idea it is.
He'd probably claim that they were an integrated part of Windows and couldn't be shipped separately.
deus does not exist but if he does
My thought is that MS has a good dozen or so teams working on different parts of Longhorn (WinFS/Aero/Metro/etc) They just haven't put them all together, for example the WinFS team doesn't care about the UI, they're worried about their end. The released beta was about the new driver model or something (please correct me, I just skimmed the articles) so that team didn't give a damn about the UI, and unfortunately MS decided to release it without getting the new goodies from the UI team, so it looks like the same old windows. end of story.
I am just guessing on all of this, please feel free to correct me.
Im.
'Enjoy it while it lasts.'" What's there to enjoy? Longhorn = Crap.
Pictochat Art!!!
According to Taco, majority of users are Windows users.
I don't fire up an OS to look at all the pretty colors, I fire up an OS to run applications.
You implication is that Macintosh user does not. We don't just boot up and stare at the screen like its a painting on wall. We actually run applications too (lots of them) and we get the pretty face on top of it.DORK!!!
it has smart folders that automatically look for documents matching parameters you specify,
I will be using that function in two days. Its called Spotlight. Let me know how works it for you on Longhorn in about 18 months from now. DORK!!!
People go nuts about a 0.1 incremental upgrade to the Mac OS, and are only too happy to pay $130 for it. Longhorn is a far more important and comprehensive upgrade than Tiger and all anyone can say about it is how much it sucks because it looks like Windows?
For one, Windows pro users pay $150-$200 for an uprgrade and $300 for a full version. Tiger DVD is $130 and that's the full version (this means you can throw the old CD). Home really isn't in the ballpark as Mac OSX but its $100 for upgrade and $200 for the full cd. Whether you called it 10.4 or 14, it pretty much the same thing- a major update. You would know this if actually visited Apple site before commenting. You major DORK!!!
Now, I don't why you bother commenting without any insight whatsoever. Use a Mac and compare it to Windows before you run your mouth. Moreover, who were the four dipshits that modded you insightful?! I seriously think Slashdot is being overrun.Don't bother replying. I not wasting another minute your ass by checking back. Just consider this an education
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Or, more accurately, simply commented out of the HTML.
Shot 1
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And here is some random text to attempt to satisfy Slashdot's inane content filters. Apparently, it has to be quite a bit of text. I don't know what the average line length is that it requires, but it looks like it's unreasonably high.
You want pictures of Longhorn? There are more pictures right here:http://mtp.jpl.nasa.gov/images/wam/longhorn.j pgg n ghorn.gifh orn.jpg
g g if
and here: http://www.so-utah.com/grand/pipesprg/longhorn.jp
and here: http://sunsite.tus.ac.jp/multimed/pics/animals/lo
and here: http://www.helpforallnations.net/gfx/gallery/long
If you hear Microsoft tell it though, you would think they were
talking like this: http://www.vegalleries.com/wbopc/CJS27-110-001.jp
(an image of a Microsoft Marketing Rep., touting their new system):
http://www.nonstick.com/sounds/Foghorn.
I guess we'll just have to find a torrent of it instead...... Anybody?
I hate grammar Nazi's.
31337 Sooper skunkworks site with screen shots of new Loghorn features... http://www.apple.com/macosx/overview/aquauserinter face.html
Could this be because Apple has not been legally found a monopoly whilst Microsoft has?
I wonder...
doesn't stop the google cache of the article though. Ive added the google cache of the article at (http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_alph a.asp ) - http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:Xs-TRcuf8L8J:ww w.winsupersite.com/reviews/longhorn_alpha.asp++win supersite+reviews+longhorn&hl=en.
View the page before the cache updates. Still visible at 28APR2005 @ 1200Hrs AEST.
peterrenshaw ~ Another Scrappy Startup
http://64.233.161.104/search?q=cache:Dg6iYBJcF_sJ
They don't look very good to me. In the shots of the control panel, I can really see why Job's is accusing Microsoft of shamelessly copying OSX.
-Mak
If they were even pretty... I saw the screenshots yesterday and my first tought was: "Fuck. They have managed to fuck the UI even more than in XP. Look at that scrollbar in "start" menu. Fuck, fuck, fuck! And that horrid no-contrast grayish joke of a theme. Fuck. Good thing it wont reach my desktop sooner than in a 4-5 years when I hopefully will be retired, cruising around the world and not worrying about Windows usability anymore".
It seems the images are still on Thurrock's site, he's just removed the links to them. EG: http://www.winsupersite.com/images/reviews/lh5048_ 02_05.jpg
Anyone remember the hissy fits Lotus used to have over "Look and Feel" for 123?
Given their amazingly quick response to market changes at the time, I can understand why M$ would adopt their business model. (can you say ouch?)
Prob the biggest boost Linux has gotten to date via M$.
I stronlgy believe NO ONE will use the Longhorn default theme as it is now. I've seen a very recent video on Avalon, which will be available as Beta1 this summer, Beta2 in holiday season (+/++ 6-12 months). Take the power of OpenGL/DirectX to a very basic level for the user in XAML...amazing stuff! I just checked out the MacOS site - Aqua will be a puddle compared to the UI that can be designed in Avalon (with some UI designers who know what they're doing). Needless to say, screenshots DO NOT DO IT JUSTICE!
This sig donated to Pater. Long live
Everybody from his father in Seattle to tramps in
Sinapore knows that Bill is gay.
Besides that, "Longhorn", a name for pinus, is Bill's
life long obsession - having his own big pinus that
he can suck without having to go out to the seedyer
side of Seattle and pay for; like the times in N.M.
when he had to go the seedyer side of town to buy
pot - the reason for the speeding ticket, which
Allen payed for.
Toodles!
You guys (I mean OS vendors) sometimes simply beyond of my understanding. F.e. I was simply shocked when discovered that The Spotlight almighty and wonderful completely ignores man pages coming with Tiger and even if I run mdimport manually on /usr/share/man it doesn't understand man page format. Let me cite:
"What the hell were you people thinking?" :)
Longhorn's GUI is unremarkable, but issues of security and crashing have been addressed?
Screenshots do not demonstrate coding competence. The competence of the code is what is important. We'll see...
Organization: alphabetical, sometimes numerical or messy
When Apple bundles an application, if you don't like it you can easily swap it out. Hell, even the Safari Web Browser Preferences, has a drop down "Default Web Browser" menu, allowing you to choose any other web browser you've got installed on the system. And if I want to delete Safari without any impact to the system, I can.
Can you do that in MS WIndows? Certainly not without fucking around under the hood, and the official Microsoft line is that you can't and shouldn't try.
Oh, and Apple isn't a monopoly either!
Just for fun to see how long the pictures will stay here: http://photos.yahoo.com/hurz3u ;-)
" I was told that Microsoft had left its Media Center user interface unprotected, and that UI has been stolen and replicated in numerous other places."
WHERE?!? Show me where the Media Center GUI was stolen and used on a competing product! I demand justice and a large serving of proof!
I don't believe that crap. Everyone knows that Microsoft has been stealing UI elements and themes from Apple since DAY FRIGGIN' ONE! The only people that don't want to admit that are the people that use Windows. Really, they have not-a-clue.
I remember once an older lady asking me at tech-support about the history of Apple and Microsoft. She said, and I quote, "Didn't Microsoft create Apple?" - yeah, I know the quote, but it's a true story.
No sig for you! Come back one year!
since DAY FRIGGIN' ONE
or as i heard a 15 year old mum on trisha once say: "SINCE DAY GO"
If you're going to make a function available, you have to plan a way to get at that function. Whether it's the GUI or a command-line interface, you have to know how the user is going to interact with a function before you make it. This goes back to the days of CP/M and ProDOS.
In modern GUI-based software, that means figuring out how the user will activate the command, use the device, whatever, and then fleshing out the functionality. Why write a subroutine that will never be accessed by the user? (This is of course oversimplified: the biggest cliché nowadays is the Undocumented Feature, but those are outliers).
This may actually be a part of Microsoft's problem: thinking up nifty routines and commands, but putting off user interaction until the last minute. For some reason they can't grasp how a tool is only as good as its handle...
This is going to go over badly, but if anyone wants my opinion on what has happened to Microsoft over the years, it is the fact that they started hiring so many women into positions of authority, that the company lost its edge. Women managers like to give second and third chances to under-performers. Microsoft used to be a place where you either performed or you were out on your ass promptly. Not anymore.
Back to the point; Divorce happens to poor folks too. If 'trauma' is possible rich or poor, I'll choose the money every time, and take my chances on the women. But then, this is Seattle, where women are horny, plentiful and replaceable.
Well the sites mentioned in the original post have removed the pics in compliance to the Micro$hit dictum. google image search helps. I wonder how long since M$ will bully google to block out the images and if it'll comply ;-)
As Seen On TV is not an OS guy--quite simply he's a troll (and the clue to this may even lay in his nick--"I'm not a real OS guy but I play one on TV!"). You'd do well just to ignore this person's ignorant brayings. All he does is heap abuse on people who reply to him and act as if he Knows It All(tm)--if you look carefully you'll see people who actually work at Apple refuting his many and various lies.
If this were any company other than Microsoft, everyone would be saying that they "borrowed" or were "inspired by" another company to use pieces of their UI. When it's MS, it's automatically "they stole it".