Well I hope OS X users realize opengl is a must for their games...
I'd call this FUD but looks like OpenGL people took it serious, pasting from forum, admins post:
Microsoft's current plan for OpenGL on Windows Vista is to layer OpenGL over Direct3D in order to use OpenGL with a composited desktop to obtain the Aeroglass experience. If an OpenGL ICD is run - the desktop compositor will switch off - significantly degrading the user experience.
In practice this means for OpenGL under Aeroglass:
OpenGL performance will be significantly reduced - perhaps as much as 50%
OpenGL on Windows will be fixed at a vanilla version of OpenGL 1.4
No extensions will be possible to expose future hardware innovations It would be technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within the full Aeroglass experience without compromising the stability or the security of the operating system. Layering OpenGL over Direct3D is a policy more than a technical decision.
What can you do? Write to your preferred ISV, hardware developer or OEM and tell them to bring this up with Microsoft (e.g. 3Dlabs, ATI, Intel, Matrox, NVIDIA, HP, Dell) Bring this issue up on other developer and tech-related web sites. If you have a personal blog or podcast, talk about the issue there. Windows Vista might end up being a great product, but not if OpenGL is crippled Post your comments to this message board (please no Microsoft bashing - Just make it clear that Windows needs to stay a great platform for the OpenGL API and offer any suggestions)
If we manage to take this discussion to ID Software products somehow and troll enough, we can make Mr. John Carmack comment on this thing and make a reality check:)
I start: "Doom 3 FPS will be even lower! OMG!!!"
Seriously, you really imagine MS will release an opengl killer OS while huge, popular games run on OpenGL themselves? I mean, while people comparing 105 fps with 95 fps?
"SciTech GLDirect is the utility package for Windows 95/98/Me/2000/XP that combines the power of the OpenGL API with the wide availability of Direct3D hardware drivers. It accomplishes this by enabling OpenGL based games and applications to access 3D hardware acceleration through the Direct3D drivers provided by your graphics hardware manufacturer. The OpenGL API is the cross-platform, high performance standard for 3D graphics applications. "
It actually runs faster than own OpenGL drivers on some chipsets.
Yes, an openGL-Directx wrapper and if you are old timer, you know what Scitech is, in terms of software quality and impact on open standards.
As Google acquiring CIA backed map company and offering 7 year old service with incompatible interface is more important news to some, you didn't notice it I guess.;)
That "thing" died(!) because of lack of drivers and Immersion's lack of focus on gaming developers.
Worse, it was in fact excellent for desktop experience. They shifted focus to gaming which was non existaTactile feedback... Staring to my iFeel mouse from logitech which is declared as "dead"...
That "thing" died (!) because of lack of drivers and Immersion's lack of focus on gaming developers.
Worse, it was excellent for desktop experience. They shifted their focus to gaming which was non existent (except UT2xxx) so desktop stuff was kind of given up too.
As Logitech giant gave up, maybe another company would license it I thought. Apple didn't. That was the exact thing needed for that mouse. Maybe their new "power" fashion, I don't know since iFeel mouse uses 500mA unlike other mouses.
Let me tell a funny thing, the SDK/Driver is included on every OS X since 10.2.8. Logitech still uses immersion stuff on other products.
The mouse would rock though:) A missed chance.
nt (except UT2xxx) so desktop stuff was kind of given up too.
As Logitech giant gave up, maybe another company would license it I thought. Apple didn't. That was the exact thing needed for that mouse. Maybe their new "power" freakness, I don't know since iFeel mouse uses 500mA unlike other mouses.
Let me tell a funny thing, the SDK/Driver is included on every OS X since 10.2.8. Logitech still uses immersion stuff on other products.
Apple pro mouse is NOT CHEAP. I use my mac with logitech optical trackball recently.
If you manage to break Apple pro mouse which came with your mac and for some reason you like it, check its price. http://tinyurl.com/cv6nq
I hope you are not trolling as OS X/ OS 9 will run with anything HID compliant (basically everything). I hope you don't know this fact.
Pro mouse missed a wheel, this one fixes it. About buttons? I have seen $20 million advertising projects being designed with Apple "single button" mouse and (of course) Graphic Tablets. Thats the segment never said anything about buttons. There is triple click, long click stuff not known by switchers, thats the thing what generates this pointless discussion.
Why bitch, piss, moan? You are a potential customer for them having own money.
When Mactel ships, if it's not some FUD and you are pissed to this kind of lockout, buy another brand and install whatever OS works best in it and suits your needs.
Wonder which exact reason Apple is easily leaking this story and put DRM before Longhorn (Vista?) ships? They trust to their users being sort of "cult member" forgetting Apple is a company and they are customers.
I noticed we don't have right to speak against Apple or some guys/gals with direct or indirect commercial contacts with Apple jumps into discussion and calls us:
1) Ignorant 2) Zealot 3) Clueless 4) Lifeless
I admit I am a big mouth on Slashdot, but it doesn't mean I have to get harassed by unethical people can't even tell about the companies they work for, the contracts they have with Apple and how close they are to Apple workers themselves.
I "switched" to Mac after struggling with x86, Wintel and never ending lack of Linux desktop for 10 years but I must say I expected the developers for this elite platform being a bit more elite and having own way of thinking.
Mactel costed me getting banned from 3-4 channels, giving up (deleting) 2-3 open source projects I donated to and having a bad taste in my mouth about my "switch".
Enough damage. "Think different" you know;)
Ps: In 24 hours some zealot with lots of "developer" karma will find an explanation to this fascist choice of technology.
Well it was there all this time and code is so mature that there are Tiger owners buying it.
If I liked things like Dashboard, I'd go for Konfabulator too.
They went win32 in weeks after Apple included same functionality with the OS.
Also don't forget one thing. We, geeks use latest and greatest OS when it ships but many people currently run 10.3 and even 10.2.8. It can run on them.
Well I call this "Happy ending". I don't have spesific "hate" against Apple as zealots assume, I am an Apple user myself. Just I think they should make them a favor, not money or something, credit or a name mention.
Just seek how EA (electronic arts) was founded, you will be surprised.
This is happy ending I think. Everyone is happy including licensed customers of Konf.
ps: For people jumping and saying "They didn't invent it!' etc, I was running Active Desktop at IE 4 times on win32
Why is it that hard to believe there are "switchers" buying it for OS X _and_ PPC architecture?
The promising results you mention shows those applications had no altivec optimizations at all.
The guy you say "bingo" to is calling every single person having doubt in mind "ignorant".
A very typical cult way of doing things.
Another cult way of doing things would be believing Intel does better things (besides being monopoly) than everyone since "leader" said so. In one single day!
If you knew in which words Steve Jobs explained the Mactel decision and post it to Slashdot on an irrelevant apple.slashdot.org hardware story, you'd get either -1 troll or -1 flamebait. People would blame you for being a moron not knowing Mhz doesn't matter that much, some would even take time to joke about Cray CPU speed like me.
Must admit guy knows zealotry in macintosh world too well.
No, the speech of Steve Jobs is pure flamebait and troll, it's just his name makes him immune.
I wouldn't mess with IBM that way and I guess some unpredictable type AMD CPU's are OTW.
If it has run that fast on your rosetta mactel, it would mean Firefox does not take advantage of any CPU specific instruction and (sorry guys) a bad mac program.
I mean, I like PowerPC G5, I own it as only computer here but I know how it can suck if code does not get optimized for it.
I think the article comes from one of zealot type developers who think whatever Apple does must rock.
People like me who doesn't really care about sub $2000 line of Apple computers will go and buy these Altivec heaven things.
The real dual g5 customer is a guy having $20.000 worth of commercial programs with service agreements and hardly switches to any other program every 5 years.
That thing while we use at home is a professional workstation. Thanks to PowerPC's excellent backward compatibility and the design of 64bit since beginning, we can also play games.
Try gaming on a Xeon. I have spoiled rich friends tried it and no, it was a nightmare.
Slashdot Mirror
Well I hope OS X users realize opengl is a must for their games...
t ory/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=000001
I'd call this FUD but looks like OpenGL people took it serious, pasting from forum, admins post:
Microsoft's current plan for OpenGL on Windows Vista is to layer OpenGL over Direct3D in order to use OpenGL with a composited desktop to obtain the Aeroglass experience. If an OpenGL ICD is run - the desktop compositor will switch off - significantly degrading the user experience.
In practice this means for OpenGL under Aeroglass:
OpenGL performance will be significantly reduced - perhaps as much as 50%
OpenGL on Windows will be fixed at a vanilla version of OpenGL 1.4
No extensions will be possible to expose future hardware innovations
It would be technically straightforward to provide an OpenGL ICD within the full Aeroglass experience without compromising the stability or the security of the operating system. Layering OpenGL over Direct3D is a policy more than a technical decision.
What can you do?
Write to your preferred ISV, hardware developer or OEM and tell them to bring this up with Microsoft (e.g. 3Dlabs, ATI, Intel, Matrox, NVIDIA, HP, Dell)
Bring this issue up on other developer and tech-related web sites. If you have a personal blog or podcast, talk about the issue there. Windows Vista might end up being a great product, but not if OpenGL is crippled
Post your comments to this message board (please no Microsoft bashing - Just make it clear that Windows needs to stay a great platform for the OpenGL API and offer any suggestions)
http://www.opengl.org/discussion_boards/cgi_direc
If we manage to take this discussion to ID Software products somehow and troll enough, we can make Mr. John Carmack comment on this thing and make a reality check :)
I start: "Doom 3 FPS will be even lower! OMG!!!"
Seriously, you really imagine MS will release an opengl killer OS while huge, popular games run on OpenGL themselves? I mean, while people comparing 105 fps with 95 fps?
http://www.scitechsoft.com/products/ent/gld_home.p hp
"SciTech GLDirect is the utility package for Windows 95/98/Me/2000/XP that combines the power of the OpenGL API with the wide availability of Direct3D hardware drivers. It accomplishes this by enabling OpenGL based games and applications to access 3D hardware acceleration through the Direct3D drivers provided by your graphics hardware manufacturer. The OpenGL API is the cross-platform, high performance standard for 3D graphics applications. "
It actually runs faster than own OpenGL drivers on some chipsets.
Yes, an openGL-Directx wrapper and if you are old timer, you know what Scitech is, in terms of software quality and impact on open standards.
Hi,
;)
http://search.yahoo.com/cc its there for ages now.
As Google acquiring CIA backed map company and offering 7 year old service with incompatible interface is more important news to some, you didn't notice it I guess.
(yea down mod me google fanatics)
(sorry for replying own post)
that's what happens if you don't click "preview" after grammar checking the post. Sorry.
Tactile feedback... Staring to my iFeel mouse from logitech which is declared as "dead"...
o ller/ifeel/
o ller/ifeel/
e /TWGaming.php
:) A missed chance.
e /TWGaming.php
:) A missed chance.
http://www.sharkygames.com/hardware/reviews/contr
That "thing" died(!) because of lack of drivers and Immersion's lack of focus on gaming developers.
Worse, it was in fact excellent for desktop experience. They shifted focus to gaming which was non existaTactile feedback... Staring to my iFeel mouse from logitech which is declared as "dead"...
http://www.sharkygames.com/hardware/reviews/contr
That "thing" died (!) because of lack of drivers and Immersion's lack of focus on gaming developers.
Worse, it was excellent for desktop experience. They shifted their focus to gaming which was non existent (except UT2xxx) so desktop stuff was kind of given up too.
The company they purchased the amazing technology (its more than vibrating) is
http://www.immersion.com/gaming/products/touchwar
As Logitech giant gave up, maybe another company would license it I thought. Apple didn't. That was the exact thing needed for that mouse. Maybe their new "power" fashion, I don't know since iFeel mouse uses 500mA unlike other mouses.
Let me tell a funny thing, the SDK/Driver is included on every OS X since 10.2.8. Logitech still uses immersion stuff on other products.
The mouse would rock though
nt (except UT2xxx) so desktop stuff was kind of given up too.
The company they purchased the amazing technology (its more than vibrating) is
http://www.immersion.com/gaming/products/touchwar
As Logitech giant gave up, maybe another company would license it I thought. Apple didn't. That was the exact thing needed for that mouse. Maybe their new "power" freakness, I don't know since iFeel mouse uses 500mA unlike other mouses.
Let me tell a funny thing, the SDK/Driver is included on every OS X since 10.2.8. Logitech still uses immersion stuff on other products.
Mouse would rock though
When I saw a mouse with 2 buttons ship from Apple I just checked the known trolls comments.
:)
"huh? no wireless.. Suxors!My Dell came with..."
You can't stop trolls
Apple pro mouse is NOT CHEAP. I use my mac with logitech optical trackball recently.
If you manage to break Apple pro mouse which came with your mac and for some reason you like it, check its price.
http://tinyurl.com/cv6nq
I hope you are not trolling as OS X/ OS 9 will run with anything HID compliant (basically everything). I hope you don't know this fact.
Pro mouse missed a wheel, this one fixes it. About buttons? I have seen $20 million advertising projects being designed with Apple "single button" mouse and (of course) Graphic Tablets. Thats the segment never said anything about buttons. There is triple click, long click stuff not known by switchers, thats the thing what generates this pointless discussion.
Buttons matter when you are into FPS gaming.
Its a name of Unsanity product, Mighty Mouse does change cursors on OS X and yes, I have license :)
:)
http://www.unsanity.com/haxies/mightymouse
After "K" incident, I heard news on web about mighty mouse, not knowing its an actual device I said "OMG Kleptomania"
The funny thing is the site block one of "paid" browsers meaning the owner of browser likely can pay whatever current Opera price is.
;)
They also block top of the line Nokia Smart "phone" (9xxx) owners too and the people who can pay the price for that expensive, luxury mini laptop.
Keep locking away the class A and A+ (customer profile terms)
Why bitch, piss, moan? You are a potential customer for them having own money.
;)
When Mactel ships, if it's not some FUD and you are pissed to this kind of lockout, buy another brand and install whatever OS works best in it and suits your needs.
Wonder which exact reason Apple is easily leaking this story and put DRM before Longhorn (Vista?) ships? They trust to their users being sort of "cult member" forgetting Apple is a company and they are customers.
Very same reason Amiga has... Nevermind
I noticed we don't have right to speak against Apple or some guys/gals with direct or indirect commercial contacts with Apple jumps into discussion and calls us:
;)
1) Ignorant
2) Zealot
3) Clueless
4) Lifeless
I admit I am a big mouth on Slashdot, but it doesn't mean I have to get harassed by unethical people can't even tell about the companies they work for, the contracts they have with Apple and how close they are to Apple workers themselves.
I "switched" to Mac after struggling with x86, Wintel and never ending lack of Linux desktop for 10 years but I must say I expected the developers for this elite platform being a bit more elite and having own way of thinking.
Mactel costed me getting banned from 3-4 channels, giving up (deleting) 2-3 open source projects I donated to and having a bad taste in my mouth about my "switch".
Enough damage.
"Think different" you know
Ps: In 24 hours some zealot with lots of "developer" karma will find an explanation to this fascist choice of technology.
You miss the fact that there are no more morons sitting in home on dial up and sending spams to everywhere.
It became big business. Big business as drug selling.
So you know what happens if you are into Mafia, exact same thing happened to him.
If there is, a guy out there thinking he will get all the money spam boss promises etc. he should remember this.
It is not a pure tech, lameness thing anymore.
Well it was there all this time and code is so mature that there are Tiger owners buying it.
If I liked things like Dashboard, I'd go for Konfabulator too.
They went win32 in weeks after Apple included same functionality with the OS.
Also don't forget one thing. We, geeks use latest and greatest OS when it ships but many people currently run 10.3 and even 10.2.8. It can run on them.
Well I call this "Happy ending". I don't have spesific "hate" against Apple as zealots assume, I am an Apple user myself. Just I think they should make them a favor, not money or something, credit or a name mention.
Just seek how EA (electronic arts) was founded, you will be surprised.
This is happy ending I think. Everyone is happy including licensed customers of Konf.
ps: For people jumping and saying "They didn't invent it!' etc, I was running Active Desktop at IE 4 times on win32
Why is it that hard to believe there are "switchers" buying it for OS X _and_ PPC architecture?
The promising results you mention shows those applications had no altivec optimizations at all.
The guy you say "bingo" to is calling every single person having doubt in mind "ignorant".
A very typical cult way of doing things.
Another cult way of doing things would be believing Intel does better things (besides being monopoly) than everyone since "leader" said so. In one single day!
Well I must congratulate you for posting to this topic, a thing I didn't dare.
Zealotry has no limit it seems, Apple fanatics became Intel fanatics overnight.
The post you reply is the exact reason why I and many people didn't post to topic.
I don't think anyone at IBM would predict Steve Jobs one day becomes Mhz comparing Dell troll user eh?
You know, you are an insider and the Mhz babbling should have made them laugh.
It didn't make me laugh as a person owning only a g5 at home and happy for 2 years.
If you knew in which words Steve Jobs explained the Mactel decision and post it to Slashdot on an irrelevant apple.slashdot.org hardware story, you'd get either -1 troll or -1 flamebait. People would blame you for being a moron not knowing Mhz doesn't matter that much, some would even take time to joke about Cray CPU speed like me.
;)
Must admit guy knows zealotry in macintosh world too well.
No, the speech of Steve Jobs is pure flamebait and troll, it's just his name makes him immune.
I wouldn't mess with IBM that way and I guess some unpredictable type AMD CPU's are OTW.
You know, Apple lines will be empty now
Funny is you just proved his point.
He just forgot one thing: Apple trusts to its zealot customers.
If it has run that fast on your rosetta mactel, it would mean Firefox does not take advantage of any CPU specific instruction and (sorry guys) a bad mac program.
I mean, I like PowerPC G5, I own it as only computer here but I know how it can suck if code does not get optimized for it.
I think the article comes from one of zealot type developers who think whatever Apple does must rock.
(posting +2 for very same reason)
You need Pacifist.
/ 12743
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx
Don't miss my "usage tip" under Ilgaz name, it includes what to disable to avoid compatability problems.
We are speaking about Pacifist 1.6.3 here btw. In case its updated, ignore my tip.
Thanks to that minor update my internal modem is back to life and software update do not crash anymore.
:)
:)
Also, I re enable bug reporting since it won't use 90% of non idle CPU to figure what modem is installed.
Doesn't change I am staring to an actual fax device now
I have never seen ordinary end users waited for an operating system update that way on any platform.
BTW, clever people will buy or install Tiger now. Patient, clever people. Unlike me
I don't defend S. Jobs here but he openly admitted they lacked that feature while announcing it giving credit to Microsoft openly.
I watched it over quicktime.
It gives a clue why one big boss is called "evil" and the other is "cool".
http://www.apple.com/macosx/
People like me who doesn't really care about sub $2000 line of Apple computers will go and buy these Altivec heaven things.
The real dual g5 customer is a guy having $20.000 worth of commercial programs with service agreements and hardly switches to any other program every 5 years.
That thing while we use at home is a professional workstation. Thanks to PowerPC's excellent backward compatibility and the design of 64bit since beginning, we can also play games.
Try gaming on a Xeon. I have spoiled rich friends tried it and no, it was a nightmare.