There are 3 "tender" facilities with babies taken from their mother's arms in south texas and they are preparing to open a 4th facility. Airline attendents are reporting on flights carrying the toddlers away from the area.
These are not teens. These are babies and todders. the parents will be "fast tracked" back home and the children will be "slow tracked" and *per* the former head of ICE, they may not be sent to their home countries for months or years and by then there may no way to identify their parents.
I'm going to volunteer tomorrow and start donating for attorneys. Some of these 3 and 4 year old are being put in court without a lawyer to defend themselves.
You have confused two different experiments/principles.
Milgrim is about how many people will obey an authority figure and do increasingly terrible things they would not normally do. Even to the point of apparently killing another human being. It was most recently repeated by the French as far as I'm aware. In that experiment, several people followed orders to torture a stranger to dangerous and fatal levels. Very few people resisted completely (I think it was a young female who did actually but it's been a couple years).
Zimbardo was experimenting with our social roles affected our behavior. You take one group and tell them they are guards and give them some authority but don't keep giving them increasing orders. You take the other group and tell them they are prisoners. In the experiment, the "guards" became increasingly inhumane on their own without continuing series of instructions to take greater measures. The "guards" were "corrupted" by the power they had over the "prisoners"
These are two different things. You are very confident and even emotional about something you are apparently at least a little ignorant about. That sounds like Dunning-Kruger to me.
----
You can't really "prove" or "disprove" the Stanford Prison Experiment. You can propose some ways it may have been corrupted (such as by "implied commands"). But you can't run the experiment hundreds to thousands of times with sets of people from different cultures, ages, genders, religions, etc. to "prove" or "disprove" (i.s. show within a 95% confidence level that humans generally behave this way) because we've decided it is unethical (and also because you can't be sure everyone is ignorant of the prior experiment so the results would be suspect for that reason too).
So it was a one-off. It's only "true" for that particular group of students in the 1970s in the u.s. It *may* be generally applicable (and we might be able to observe genuine guard and prisoner behavior as we get better surveillance in prisons and feed it into A.I. analysis) but we don't and can't know. It does provide some interesting cautions and questions however.
I suggest you read up on the several iterations of the milgrim experiment, and read up on the stanford prison experiment, and perhaps the Dunning-Kruger effect.
We are running out of sand usable for concrete rapidly. Already there are illegal sand cartels and people have been killed over it. Uncounted numbers of people die or are permanently injured collecting it in India.
Before you ask or comment... sand in desert can't be used. It's round. The sound required for concrete is angular and sharp so it locks together.
Exactly. The a.i. does what we train it to do, but we already have many examples where we were not training it to do what we thought we were training it to do.
I think strong a.i. is going to be composed of multiple weak a.i. systems. Just as the cerebellum isn't intelligent, and the amygdala isn't intelligent, and the hippocampus isn't intelligent, etc. etc. etc.
You get some bizarre behavior in humans when the amygdala is broken or damaged.
Any strong A.I. is going to be so complex that it can't be understood any more than human beings (or even dogs) can be understood.
Oh, you absolutely have to worry about a general taking over. Lol. I think that scenario has already been written in more than one book and portrayed in at least one movie.
There is a block of the wealthy who prefer automated servants. They don't leak information and they are not a kidnapping risk to children.
But that's really a different topic than A.I. hunter killer robots.
religionofpeas said... >We clearly are stupid enough.
Exactly. What about human history gives the impression that we will not do this? Hasn't Russia already been working on these? A.I. robots that were fearless, could shoot with 100% accuracy, fight 24x7, don't hesitate to follow orders would be a tremendous force multiplier.
What country won't find a way to justify creating and using a.i. robots?
You do realize it took over 10,000 years for the current fertile zones to reach the levels of enrichment they had 150 years ago?
The new areas are not going to be as fertile as the current areas. And in some cases, the rain belts will not be over those areas.
I think you are "hoping for the best' rather than having a plan.
But it's okay. It's already too late to stop it short of finding a new inexpensive way to sequester massive amounts of C02 very quickly.
And even so, our population is so high we are on track to start running out of all kinds of fixed resources (like sand, chromium, magnesium, manganese, etc. etc.) within the next 25 years. All at about the same time.
Because over the last 40 or so years, the average size of glaciers has not been constant.
At best, instead of being stored, the water runs off quickly in the winter and isn't stored to smooth out the water curve for the rest of the year.
At worst, climate change has also altered where the rain is falling so enough water no longer falls on the glacier and at some point, the area will become arid after the stored up water is gone.
They are hoarse from pointing out his lack of clothing for the last 9-12 months.
The problem is Mr. Trump's authoritarian followers. Read up on the authoritarian mindset. It's present in about 25% of any population. It's capable of flipping on a dime repeatedly to conform to whatever the leader's new reality is.
It is probably a huge survival trait in authoritarian regimes.
If Mr. Trump says the sky is black, then to the authoritarian's, it's sincerely black. If the next day he says it is yellow, then it's sincerely yellow to them.
They have little to no cognitive dissonance.
We did a lot of research into this after world war 2.
As long as democracy, honesty, and a free press are valued by the leadership- then the authoritarians value it. But they can flip on a dime to not valuing democracy, honesty, and a free press. Consider how many flipped from hating Russia to loving Russia in under 6 months. People who disliked Russia their entire lives suddenly were fine with Russia.
Sorry for bringing logic to a shit-flinging party, can't help myself.
Unfortunately, you didn't. You have to look at absolute numbers, and not percentages, because the subsidies have a multiplicative effect. They not only change the profitability of milk, but they encourage overproduction (because the subsidies are based on production), which drives down prices.
Indeed, according to government numbers, the US has a 5-1 price edge against Canada in dairy pricing due to subsidies. That should call for a 500% subsidy to fully correct for, and yet we only charge a 270% tariff.
You'd expect if the tariffs were completely out-of-line that nobody in Canada would import dairy form the US, and yet in 2016 alone we imported more than $631 million in dairy from the US. For a population smaller than that of California.
Again -- talk to your own government first. I'd be more than happy to see both of our countries (and the EU, which has the largest dairy subsidies in the world) drop dairy tariffs -- but the unfair subsidies have to come down first. It's the subsidies that have caused the tariffs, not the other way around. Canada is hardly in some power position where we can drop our tariffs and hope for some form of "general goodwill" that the US will stop unfair subsidies and attempts at dumping. The Canadian Government has been clear in the past that if the subsidies go away, we won't need the tariffs anymore.
Yaz
Great post Yaz. Very informative. Surprised someone is trying to mod you down.
The biggest risk is doing the "easy" part first to "save time" while you try to solve the risky part. This results in huge sunk costs which drive the project forward even when it's obvious that the new risky thing will have performance problems or not even do what it promised at all.
Identify parts which may have performance impact or rely on new software or new features and address them before you start on the 80% of the work that is the 'easy' part. If you can't honestly give an estimate for some part of the work, or if starts sliding from that estimate immediately let that warn you that's a risky part that needs to be solved before you dump 50 million dollars worth of simple construction coding into a project. Failing to do that causes the most enormous failures (100+ million dollars).
Yea, but even as a non-agile developer you can see when the agile team has decayed to waterfall method, has stopped timeboxing, and abandoned other core behaviors and features.
I always preferred RUP. It seemed to work better with business partners.
It was very clear that you identified risk and eliminated it *first* before starting generic ("construction") coding, that you *always* timeboxed, you never delayed a release for a "really important feature that wasn't quite ready yet", you had regular updates on the status of each feature point.
It was similar to agile but it wasn't agile. I like the theory of agile, but in practice it usually collapsed to waterfall under pressure.
As a liberal and proud SJW, I'm for fairness, equal treatment, and equal opportunity.
I'm starting to see more far left who are not even for "equal outcome". I had one tell me, a 70/30 imbalance was fine as long as the 70% was females. And that having a 58f/42m split in colleges was fine too.
I'm old. But we need to get the boot of society off of young men's necks. It's not healthy.
Yup. Old fart. But the number of young people of all races and genders who are angry about TLJ on Youtube is phenomenal. Luke had a lot of fans.
While people bitch about the stupid stuff, the mary sue stuff, and that hyperspeed attack breaking canon, what really seems to piss most people off is what happened to Luke and how it was a violation of everything established for his character with no setup. I think if TLJ had treated Luke really well, Solo would have done fine. And the problems with TLJ would have been overlooked. (Tho to be honest, 2+ hours of pointless failure is also pretty hard to take for most folks).
I think the audience cares about the writing. But... I'm a liberal and proud sjw right?... however lately, I see this group forming to the extreme left of me. It's well past fairness and equality of opportunity (or even equality of outcome). TBF, there are also more extreme right groups forming (not alt-right neo nazi crazies but really hard right and a little irrational).
I stopped watching Transformers due to lack of interest. Never hated what they did with it. Next film up is "upgrade". Arrival is in the queue.
Slashdot Mirror
There are 3 "tender" facilities with babies taken from their mother's arms in south texas and they are preparing to open a 4th facility. Airline attendents are reporting on flights carrying the toddlers away from the area.
These are not teens. These are babies and todders. the parents will be "fast tracked" back home and the children will be "slow tracked" and *per* the former head of ICE, they may not be sent to their home countries for months or years and by then there may no way to identify their parents.
I'm going to volunteer tomorrow and start donating for attorneys. Some of these 3 and 4 year old are being put in court without a lawyer to defend themselves.
This is nazi 1934 stuff happening. It's evil.
Any U.S. child is likely to be a target now.
It's just not worth the risk.
If you take your U.S. child overseas, you might lose them forever.
It's the people kidnapping babies and putting them in baby internment camps.
As you might expect, some folks are going to be bad at them.
You have confused two different experiments/principles.
Milgrim is about how many people will obey an authority figure and do increasingly terrible things they would not normally do. Even to the point of apparently killing another human being. It was most recently repeated by the French as far as I'm aware. In that experiment, several people followed orders to torture a stranger to dangerous and fatal levels. Very few people resisted completely (I think it was a young female who did actually but it's been a couple years).
Zimbardo was experimenting with our social roles affected our behavior. You take one group and tell them they are guards and give them some authority but don't keep giving them increasing orders. You take the other group and tell them they are prisoners. In the experiment, the "guards" became increasingly inhumane on their own without continuing series of instructions to take greater measures. The "guards" were "corrupted" by the power they had over the "prisoners"
These are two different things. You are very confident and even emotional about something you are apparently at least a little ignorant about. That sounds like Dunning-Kruger to me.
----
You can't really "prove" or "disprove" the Stanford Prison Experiment. You can propose some ways it may have been corrupted (such as by "implied commands"). But you can't run the experiment hundreds to thousands of times with sets of people from different cultures, ages, genders, religions, etc. to "prove" or "disprove" (i.s. show within a 95% confidence level that humans generally behave this way) because we've decided it is unethical (and also because you can't be sure everyone is ignorant of the prior experiment so the results would be suspect for that reason too).
So it was a one-off. It's only "true" for that particular group of students in the 1970s in the u.s. It *may* be generally applicable (and we might be able to observe genuine guard and prisoner behavior as we get better surveillance in prisons and feed it into A.I. analysis) but we don't and can't know. It does provide some interesting cautions and questions however.
I suggest you read up on the several iterations of the milgrim experiment, and read up on the stanford prison experiment, and perhaps the Dunning-Kruger effect.
One other psychologists opinion doesn't invalidate it.
Lol.
You'd need to perform the experiment again and that's not ethical.
We are running out of sand usable for concrete rapidly. Already there are illegal sand cartels and people have been killed over it. Uncounted numbers of people die or are permanently injured collecting it in India.
Before you ask or comment... sand in desert can't be used. It's round. The sound required for concrete is angular and sharp so it locks together.
You have to admit, humans faced much stronger selective pressure in the past.
The people I know who have the most kids are too dumb to use birth control reliably.
The smart people I know (genius level) have 1 or 0 children.
It could be a fluke of data... or yea.. dumb people might be becoming a larger portion of the population.
Exactly. The a.i. does what we train it to do, but we already have many examples where we were not training it to do what we thought we were training it to do.
I think strong a.i. is going to be composed of multiple weak a.i. systems. Just as the cerebellum isn't intelligent, and the amygdala isn't intelligent, and the hippocampus isn't intelligent, etc. etc. etc.
You get some bizarre behavior in humans when the amygdala is broken or damaged.
Any strong A.I. is going to be so complex that it can't be understood any more than human beings (or even dogs) can be understood.
Oh, you absolutely have to worry about a general taking over. Lol. I think that scenario has already been written in more than one book and portrayed in at least one movie.
There is a block of the wealthy who prefer automated servants. They don't leak information and they are not a kidnapping risk to children.
But that's really a different topic than A.I. hunter killer robots.
religionofpeas said...
>We clearly are stupid enough.
Exactly. What about human history gives the impression that we will not do this? Hasn't Russia already been working on these? A.I. robots that were fearless, could shoot with 100% accuracy, fight 24x7, don't hesitate to follow orders would be a tremendous force multiplier.
What country won't find a way to justify creating and using a.i. robots?
As I hope you can tell from my post, I prefer fact-based, civil conversation.
Disagreement indicates a potential for learning unless the person disagreeing is irrational.
You do realize it took over 10,000 years for the current fertile zones to reach the levels of enrichment they had 150 years ago?
The new areas are not going to be as fertile as the current areas. And in some cases, the rain belts will not be over those areas.
I think you are "hoping for the best' rather than having a plan.
But it's okay. It's already too late to stop it short of finding a new inexpensive way to sequester massive amounts of C02 very quickly.
And even so, our population is so high we are on track to start running out of all kinds of fixed resources (like sand, chromium, magnesium, manganese, etc. etc.) within the next 25 years. All at about the same time.
and methane is a much stronger greenhouse gas than CO2.
Well I would mark you +1, Nice and Agreeable. :-)
It's a bit more than that.
It's like a half dozen people between 40 and 85 all suddenly died in the same area over a period of less than a 6 months.
The trees were between "1,100 and 2,500".
The young 1,100 year old trees contradict the age argument.
Ha ha ha. Yea, because nuclear war with China in the 60s and 70s would have been so great.
We truly have a bunch of ignorant ill informed children playing with nuclear hand grenades now.
We are historically close to a nuclear attack on a u.s. coastal city.
Because over the last 40 or so years, the average size of glaciers has not been constant.
At best, instead of being stored, the water runs off quickly in the winter and isn't stored to smooth out the water curve for the rest of the year.
At worst, climate change has also altered where the rain is falling so enough water no longer falls on the glacier and at some point, the area will become arid after the stored up water is gone.
It's not the press man.
They are hoarse from pointing out his lack of clothing for the last 9-12 months.
The problem is Mr. Trump's authoritarian followers. Read up on the authoritarian mindset. It's present in about 25% of any population. It's capable of flipping on a dime repeatedly to conform to whatever the leader's new reality is.
It is probably a huge survival trait in authoritarian regimes.
If Mr. Trump says the sky is black, then to the authoritarian's, it's sincerely black.
If the next day he says it is yellow, then it's sincerely yellow to them.
They have little to no cognitive dissonance.
We did a lot of research into this after world war 2.
As long as democracy, honesty, and a free press are valued by the leadership- then the authoritarians value it. But they can flip on a dime to not valuing democracy, honesty, and a free press. Consider how many flipped from hating Russia to loving Russia in under 6 months. People who disliked Russia their entire lives suddenly were fine with Russia.
Yaz Said..
Sorry for bringing logic to a shit-flinging party, can't help myself.
Unfortunately, you didn't. You have to look at absolute numbers, and not percentages, because the subsidies have a multiplicative effect. They not only change the profitability of milk, but they encourage overproduction (because the subsidies are based on production), which drives down prices.
Indeed, according to government numbers, the US has a 5-1 price edge against Canada in dairy pricing due to subsidies. That should call for a 500% subsidy to fully correct for, and yet we only charge a 270% tariff.
You'd expect if the tariffs were completely out-of-line that nobody in Canada would import dairy form the US, and yet in 2016 alone we imported more than $631 million in dairy from the US. For a population smaller than that of California.
Again -- talk to your own government first. I'd be more than happy to see both of our countries (and the EU, which has the largest dairy subsidies in the world) drop dairy tariffs -- but the unfair subsidies have to come down first. It's the subsidies that have caused the tariffs, not the other way around. Canada is hardly in some power position where we can drop our tariffs and hope for some form of "general goodwill" that the US will stop unfair subsidies and attempts at dumping. The Canadian Government has been clear in the past that if the subsidies go away, we won't need the tariffs anymore.
Yaz
Great post Yaz. Very informative. Surprised someone is trying to mod you down.
I don't think anything is obvious when you get two human brains that were spoiled their entire existence into negotiations.
Ha ha ha. Yea, because nuclear war with China in the 60s and 70s would have been so great.
We truly have a bunch of ignorant ill informed children playing with nuclear hand grenades now.
We are historically close to a nuclear attack on a u.s. coastal city.
The biggest risk is doing the "easy" part first to "save time" while you try to solve the risky part. This results in huge sunk costs which drive the project forward even when it's obvious that the new risky thing will have performance problems or not even do what it promised at all.
Identify parts which may have performance impact or rely on new software or new features and address them before you start on the 80% of the work that is the 'easy' part. If you can't honestly give an estimate for some part of the work, or if starts sliding from that estimate immediately let that warn you that's a risky part that needs to be solved before you dump 50 million dollars worth of simple construction coding into a project. Failing to do that causes the most enormous failures (100+ million dollars).
Yea, but even as a non-agile developer you can see when the agile team has decayed to waterfall method, has stopped timeboxing, and abandoned other core behaviors and features.
I always preferred RUP. It seemed to work better with business partners.
It was very clear that you identified risk and eliminated it *first* before starting generic ("construction") coding, that you *always* timeboxed, you never delayed a release for a "really important feature that wasn't quite ready yet", you had regular updates on the status of each feature point.
It was similar to agile but it wasn't agile. I like the theory of agile, but in practice it usually collapsed to waterfall under pressure.
Well said.
As a liberal and proud SJW, I'm for fairness, equal treatment, and equal opportunity.
I'm starting to see more far left who are not even for "equal outcome". I had one tell me, a 70/30 imbalance was fine as long as the 70% was females. And that having a 58f/42m split in colleges was fine too.
I'm old. But we need to get the boot of society off of young men's necks. It's not healthy.
Yup. Old fart. But the number of young people of all races and genders who are angry about TLJ on Youtube is phenomenal. Luke had a lot of fans.
While people bitch about the stupid stuff, the mary sue stuff, and that hyperspeed attack breaking canon, what really seems to piss most people off is what happened to Luke and how it was a violation of everything established for his character with no setup. I think if TLJ had treated Luke really well, Solo would have done fine. And the problems with TLJ would have been overlooked. (Tho to be honest, 2+ hours of pointless failure is also pretty hard to take for most folks).
I think the audience cares about the writing. But... I'm a liberal and proud sjw right?... however lately, I see this group forming to the extreme left of me. It's well past fairness and equality of opportunity (or even equality of outcome). TBF, there are also more extreme right groups forming (not alt-right neo nazi crazies but really hard right and a little irrational).
I stopped watching Transformers due to lack of interest. Never hated what they did with it. Next film up is "upgrade". Arrival is in the queue.