The problem is that no matter how cool IE7.css is it is still a hack. Correcting all the issues that it addresses by turning the CSS rendering engine in on itself need to be addresses in the rendering engine itself. Otherwise the pile of hacks that are required to correct IE's behavior are likely to make your site designs brittle (easily broken).
Quite simply, I am amazed that MS has let standards compliance (standards that MS helped write fer chrissakes) go so badly in IE. ALthough I have never been a fan of MS or IE, I will admit that IE was pretty far ahead in its day. Now it is at least 4 years behind everyone else.
Slashdot is a very bad example. Its HTML markup is horribly invalid. The Slashcode devs are working on getting it fixed (albeit too slowly IMO). Check these links out:
Looking at the responses to this article with a low threshold is really disheartening. PHP is a powerful language/library set. But PHP has some core design issues that still need addressing. And every intelligent post that points this out gets modded as a troll.
I guess I shouldn't be suprised at this anymore here on slashdot. But I would not ditch other languages in favor of (non-free) compiled PHP until they address *ALL* the problems listed in these articles:
You wrote: "If IE magically makes them work, then I expect Mozilla to make them work."
This is the attitude that produced the horrible frankenstein that Netscape Navigator 4 became. They piled hack upon hack to get all sorts of badly laid out stuff to render until the whole thing was collapsing in on itself.
The responsibility is not with Firefox's devs its with Slashdot's. Their HTML is a nasty, non-valid mess. They need to fix the problem and have not. Check the links in this prior post i made. The problem is solvable the Slashcode developers just need to quit stalling and fix it.
Re:Awesome! - Slashdot's bad HTML
on
Mozilla 1.7 Released
·
· Score: 3, Informative
This is the combination of a bug in Gecko and Slashdot's horrible, invalid HTML output.
To quote a previous post of mine:
Fixing Slashcode's HTML has been discussed to death before but the Slashcode devels have not put any effort into fixing it yet.
fix Slashdot's horrible, invalid HTML output. It is has been discussed to death before but the Slashcode devels have not put any effort into fixing it.
The issue is that javascript gets misused by a lot of web designers. JS should not be a requirement bu t an enhancement. If your pages break when javascript is turned off you are using it incorrectly.
Features like tables that can sort themselves when you click on a column header or style sheet switchers are what JS is for. Not for generating links (there are ways to hook links correctly) or generating the whole page from document.writes.
Most of the things that JS used to be used for (rollovers, rearranging or disappearing/appearing divs) can be done with CSS (and the pages will still work with non-css browsers if done correctly).
But why are MS always trying to put all the other browsers out of business for something they get nothing back from?
Because MS wants the platform independant browser to die. As long as they have control of the browser you use to access your content (and, in the future, your applications) they are happy.
> The problem with Java is that its GUI toolkit > is slow.
This is fixed by SWT ( http://www.eclipse.org/ ). Native widget library for Java. It was developed by IBM for the Eclipse project. Java with SWT is pretty much indistinguishable from a more traditionally compiled program.
Generally most people can't hear the difference between a $200 speaker from Best Buy and a high quality speaker. And I am talking about good speakers not the "cargo cult" audiophile stuff.
A good pair of Genelec monitors paired with a good transparent Japanese solid state amp will get you much more accurate sound than some ridiculous $50,000 audiophile tube rig. That warm tube "coloration" that they love is normally called DISTORTION.
Yes, if you are going to use headers just for their sizing then that would be wrong. But the navy colored "We're going to list some" seemed like a header to me. If it wasn't then leave it as a P tag.
We are just picking at nits here. If you want funky design layouts with alternating text colors/backgrounds then use divs to split up the page. And apply the styling to the decendants under those divs like so:
Ah yes, the good example may be bigger for one page. But try 100 pages of the good example vs. 100 pages of the bad example. The good example will download the CSS portion ONCE for all 100 pages. The bad example will download all the font markup 100 times.
This normally results in less to download for the good markup.
Also the use of classes should be more semantic P0 and P1 are meaningless. How about changing P0 into an h2 and eliminating P1 (since it doesn't do much otherwise).
Classes should be used to describe structural parts of your document whenever possible. Here are some links for more info:
http://www.kottke.org/03/08/030826standards_do.h tm l http://www.mezzoblue.com/cgi-bin/mt/mezzo/archi ves/000239.asp
Not quite. All the mice mentioned use the same design liscensed from HP. And Logitech manufactures the Microsoft optical mouse. This was posted on slashdot earlier. So it is not so clear cut.
Actually Steve Jackson Games did release a version of GURPS that is freely available. They made GURPS Lite a free PDF download on their website (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/). It is a slimmed down 32 page version of the Basic book. I have been using it as a handout for people not interested in buying the GURPS Basic book. I is fairly complete. And it has allowed me to convert my group to GURPS without forcing all the players to buy a new book. I think this is a smart move since some of the players will undoubtedly soon become interested in buying GURPS books.
Slashdot Mirror
Although the code would be usable in areas not covered by the patent law of the coutry it was patented in.
What does UID have to do with anything?
The problem is that no matter how cool IE7.css is it is still a hack. Correcting all the issues that it addresses by turning the CSS rendering engine in on itself need to be addresses in the rendering engine itself. Otherwise the pile of hacks that are required to correct IE's behavior are likely to make your site designs brittle (easily broken).
Quite simply, I am amazed that MS has let standards compliance (standards that MS helped write fer chrissakes) go so badly in IE. ALthough I have never been a fan of MS or IE, I will admit that IE was pretty far ahead in its day. Now it is at least 4 years behind everyone else.
Slashdot is a very bad example. Its HTML markup is horribly invalid. The Slashcode devs are working on getting it fixed (albeit too slowly IMO). Check these links out:
Retooling Slashdot
Redesigning Slashdot
Fixed XHTML in Slashcode
The last one is a slashcode user who fixed most of the issues all by himself. So if you want to blame someone blame the slashcode devs not Firefox.
Looking at the responses to this article with a low threshold is really disheartening. PHP is a powerful language/library set. But PHP has some core design issues that still need addressing. And every intelligent post that points this out gets modded as a troll.
I guess I shouldn't be suprised at this anymore here on slashdot. But I would not ditch other languages in favor of (non-free) compiled PHP until they address *ALL* the problems listed in these articles:
Using PHP in large websites
PHP in contrast to Perl
You wrote: "If IE magically makes them work, then I expect Mozilla to make them work."
This is the attitude that produced the horrible frankenstein that Netscape Navigator 4 became. They piled hack upon hack to get all sorts of badly laid out stuff to render until the whole thing was collapsing in on itself.
The responsibility is not with Firefox's devs its with Slashdot's. Their HTML is a nasty, non-valid mess. They need to fix the problem and have not. Check the links in this prior post i made. The problem is solvable the Slashcode developers just need to quit stalling and fix it.
This is the combination of a bug in Gecko and Slashdot's horrible, invalid HTML output.
To quote a previous post of mine:
fix Slashdot's horrible, invalid HTML output. It is has been discussed to death before but the Slashcode devels have not put any effort into fixing it.
Take a look at these articles for more info on how this can be fixed.
Note: That last link is about a Slashcode user who has already tackled some of the major issues with fixing Slash to output valid XHTML and CSS
The issue is that javascript gets misused by a lot of web designers. JS should not be a requirement bu t an enhancement. If your pages break when javascript is turned off you are using it incorrectly.
Features like tables that can sort themselves when you click on a column header or style sheet switchers are what JS is for. Not for generating links (there are ways to hook links correctly) or generating the whole page from document.writes.
Most of the things that JS used to be used for (rollovers, rearranging or disappearing/appearing divs) can be done with CSS (and the pages will still work with non-css browsers if done correctly).
But why are MS always trying to put all the other browsers out of business for something they get nothing back from?
Because MS wants the platform independant browser to die. As long as they have control of the browser you use to access your content (and, in the future, your applications) they are happy.
See this article.
and this /. thread:
Browser Wars Mark II
> The problem with Java is that its GUI toolkit
> is slow.
This is fixed by SWT ( http://www.eclipse.org/ ). Native widget library for Java. It was developed by IBM for the Eclipse project. Java with SWT is pretty much indistinguishable from a more traditionally compiled program.
Hmm 17 MB for WMP. Media Player Classic is 1.2MB. Bloatware? YES!
The question is when will Firefox and Thunderbird become the core applications?? That was their original plan for Pheonix/Firebird/Firefox.
Generally most people can't hear the difference between a $200 speaker from Best Buy and a high quality speaker. And I am talking about good speakers not the "cargo cult" audiophile stuff.
A good pair of Genelec monitors paired with a good transparent Japanese solid state amp will get you much more accurate sound than some ridiculous $50,000 audiophile tube rig. That warm tube "coloration" that they love is normally called DISTORTION.
<div class=funky_section_top>
<p>blah blah</p>
</div>
<div class=funky_section_middle>
<p>blah blah</p>
</div>
div.funky_section_top p{
color: yellow;
background: navy;
}
div.funky_section_middle p{
color: white;
background: red;
}
Ah yes, the good example may be bigger for one page. But try 100 pages of the good example vs. 100 pages of the bad example. The good example will download the CSS portion ONCE for all 100 pages. The bad example will download all the font markup 100 times.
h tm li ves /000239.asp
This normally results in less to download for the good markup.
Also the use of classes should be more semantic P0 and P1 are meaningless. How about changing P0 into an h2 and eliminating P1 (since it doesn't do much otherwise).
Classes should be used to describe structural parts of your document whenever possible. Here are some links for more info:
http://www.kottke.org/03/08/030826standards_do.
http://www.mezzoblue.com/cgi-bin/mt/mezzo/arch
Not quite. All the mice mentioned use the same design liscensed from HP. And Logitech manufactures the Microsoft optical mouse. This was posted on slashdot earlier. So it is not so clear cut.
Actually Steve Jackson Games did release a version of GURPS that is freely available. They made GURPS Lite a free PDF download on their website (http://www.sjgames.com/gurps/lite/). It is a slimmed down 32 page version of the Basic book. I have been using it as a handout for people not interested in buying the GURPS Basic book. I is fairly complete. And it has allowed me to convert my group to GURPS without forcing all the players to buy a new book. I think this is a smart move since some of the players will undoubtedly soon become interested in buying GURPS books.