Farm equipment has been automated for quite sometime. Even Artic fishing has a heavy amount of automation. I am surprised that this sector has taken this long to automate things like trains and haulers...
Now digger automation I would like to see; where you trace out a 3D volume and let it go. It doesn't seem as simple as at first glance. Soil densities vary and you run into obstacles that need a little planning and strategy. Doing it wrong can break some expensive parts or at least wear them out faster. Neat times ahead, hope someone posts some YouTube vids.
I am assuming you really meant "computing". Not just desktop programming and gaming like the examples implied.
When I was just a lad, the adults had programming careers that were very fun. They solved complex puzzles, and problems. It was very frustrating but very rewarding. Even growing up, I enjoyed programming which was very much a "figuring things out" topic minus the grease and back pain of former generations.
But today, with more than a decade into adulthood, that topic has become mostly a commodity. Windows, Linux, embedded, or otherwise. Lots of people "program" and most problems have already been solved. It's more a test of google-fu than puzzle solving. As a career it is very boring, trivial, and narrow in the results. There are still positions like before but they are outnumbered 1000 to 1.
So computing in that aspect is no longer fun. Same with hardware, it's all the same. It's all commodity. The gains in the permutations are so minor that cost easily overrides the performance benefits in most cases. This is primarily because hardware has outclassed software. I think software is probably a decade behind hardware now.
But if we switch to micro computers, sensors, and networks beyond just wifi: The glory days of the past still exist. Smart homes, smart gardens, etc are just a few tinkering days away. The common geek has access to fabricate their own custom hardware solutions. Writing the software is still mostly trivial due to the internet, but the ideas and solutions custom to a geeks unique physical world or situation is well with in reach. In this space we are still only limited by our imaginations in defining the problems to solve.
Are we talking about the same U.K. that less than 70 years ago had more of the world's population under its control than most other countries combined? That controlled the world over, taxed them heavily, and gave no representation centrally? That made decisions centrally that mostly benefitted the elite few at the expense of the colonies?
I lean the other way. Taxes should only be collected on corporate profits and sales.
There are many benefits for this. The govt has less entities to go after in taxing. They spend less on earning the revenue. It's no small feat to process and check so many individual tax submissions. Additionally, with less actors, there is less fraud, less investigations, better funded, and higher returns per case. The govt can more easily direct the general market by taxing one sector over another or internationally over domestic. They can't impact/benefit specific companies as the other well funded companies will interfere. Any major inefficiencies or wastage of monies will be investigated and identified by corps demanding they keep the funds rather than have the govt waste it. The system encourages savings at the individual level but investments at the corp level.
For corporations, they can properly invest in the right amount of resources in processing taxes, paying politicians, lawyers for defense, and finding loopholes. We don't know of a more efficient entity for paying the minimum amount necessary. They also don't need to worry about calculating and paying different amounts of taxes on behalf of their employees and various benefits. Technically we already use corps as tax collectors for the majority of the nation's end user income taxes. Why not remove that job and cost?
For us, normal ppl, we don't need to worry about filing taxes every year. We don't need to worry about paying someone to navigate the tax code. The code is extremely simple for us, it's a percent of the sale. It gives us day to day transparency into the amount the govt takes to keep running. Which makes us more interested in how our govt spends the monies and thus helps the population make better calls during elections. Our savings can be passed on to our children without a middleman taking another cut but the society still benefits when it is spent or invested (directly or indirectly via loans). They aren't out gunned and taken advantage of in the taxation arena by politicians and corporations because they aren't a player.
You are correct in saying taxes do not come out of a corps' pocket, but they are excellent tax collectors and payers. Why not give them the whole job instead of passing it onto the uneducated (tax wise) masses?
I thought it was fairly obvious that he was just countering a silly offer with another silly offer. He was rejecting their offer and countering with something he knew would be rejected. It's kind of came off as a nice way of saying FU. The alternative was just leaving... might as well have a little fun.
Are you actually being serious? They are online posts! These aren't someone's Doctoral thesis. They are random opinions and discussions of random people around the world in a public setting behind user IDs. People actually believe that a private company's staff doesn't have the ability to edit the content generated by the users of their services?
What are you going to do, have a private/public key for every account and have it signed for each and every post. Each user has a browser plugin wasting computing cycles retrieving and decrypting every post. ALL so that we can prevent the company that hosts the posts from editing them?
Come on, this isn't serious stuff. Yes, it was shit of him to do that and he lost people's trust. He will need to work to get that back. But nothing on most website's warrant the level of controls & reprimand you describe. Yes, have a policy. I would be surprised if there isn't one already. And terminate depending on the level of violation. But beyond that, there is nothing here to get panties all twisted. The guy apologized multiple times and the damage was undone.... move on.
No, that's what HFTs TRY to do. And if only ONE entity had control of the bots, you would be absolutely correct. But in the real world, there a hundreds of such powerful entities running thousands of such bots trying to get a part of that pie. And they all, total profit wise, make 1/100000 of a penny per trade when you consider the losses and running costs of that bot. Do they make profits, yes, but not as much as you folks think. Almost NO ONE reports the costs of these bots, they just speculate how much the TOTAL pie size is that the unknown number but massive DOS like frenzy of a feast had eaten up. The whole picture isn't as rosy.
That pie of profit all these posters against HFTs rally against, will never go to the general trader. Historically that went to FAR fewer individuals (100) that paid for a seat and sat at the NYSE/London/Chicago. This pie is now chopped into so many little pieces that the HFTs barely are worth it. HFTs die and new ones are born everyday.
Ideally for the market movers, hedge funds, and rich people, there would NO HFTs. Or there would be a monopoly one on each stock. But the reality is there are thousands upon thousands that fight against each other. The human users aren't even considered in their battles, but in the end are actually better off because without HFTs, it was other and fewer humans that had keys and were the ones taking advantage.
No, the profit is their incentive. They move prices quickly to the new equilibrium. They keep the information within the system synced. You may think that they don't provide liquidity but that doesn't make it true.
People forget that there were days when people could NOT sell their shares because there was no buyer. There were days when Ford was $3 at Chicago and $3.10 at NYSE! There were days when prices moved at 1/8 a dollar. And the guy on the trading floor made 1/8 a dollar for EVERY trade. Now... it's 1/1000 a dollar. Put those floor guys out of business. Replaced by computers. Put more stock and shares up for trading. Put the stock market in the hands of the general public.
No, the SEC doesn't get all uppity about CEOs bending the truth or even lying. CEOs are allowed to be a sales rep for their companies. They just can't materially misrepresent the numbers nor mislead on numbers not yet released. SEC gets pissed when the filings themselves are wrong.
Four bins? Are you a sales rep for HP or something? The most I have ever had to use was three... one for the client's laptop I was returning that week.
But I agree it's total bullshit. Even with all the extra hassel, I normally get slowed only by the agents being slow at their job. To me, the TSA is the new DMV.
Basically some payment systems allow 10-20 human errors per valid card number before triggering a fraud alert. 10 seems understandable for all those old folks with arthritis and poor eyesight. 20 seems like someone didn't know what they were doing or didn't change it during deployment from QA.
So what the article is saying is that it is theoretically possible for someone to write a program to submit random numbers to various sites and by the law of big numbers, figure out a valid CC & data in under 6 seconds.
Not really a big return there. Nor can this be used in mass, eventually the payment systems will see you as spam and if not them, the upstream will block the payment system because it is sending in too many invalid queries.
Even with a CC number, usage would still need to go through the rest of the fraud detection system. If this ever becomes a problem the obvious immediate answer is to lower the attempts to 5-10 or block repeat attempts for x seconds.
There are easier ways to get a lot more card numbers...
Germany, UK, France, and even Switzerland have been sharing financial information with the US (and vice verse) for over a decade. The US has been recording all global SWIFT transactions for well over 2 decades. Most banks that span across countries and participate in the SWIFT system already provide this information. Even from countries such as India, and Singapore.
If you are not a US citizen, the other members don't actively report on you but will upon request. It's not just a US thing. Germany/India/Canada can request as such in reverse.
This isn't some US overreach concept. The global banks were already doing this and had the capability. The governments just decided to plug into the system for tracking funds going to terrorists and tax havens.
The hard part for the governments is linking a specific person to all their foreign account numbers. For rich folks and companies, they can easily make accounts under aliases/shells/agents. It's the common citizen that can't really hide. But then again, the common citizen isn't worth going after.
USD is more accepted than ANY other currency globally. The top global commodities are traded in dollar. Just by sheer population volumes in the native countries, the Rupee and Renminbi are probably used a lot. But both those countries keep far more USD debt than any other foreign currency. Euro comes in second, but never replaced the USD in any of the global commodity trades. UK even prices their commodities in USD since the 90s.
True, I only meant US based entities. But just because a financial institution is not in the US doesn't mean it is out of reach. Many countries in the EU, Australia, Canada, India, etc actually have similar organizations that ask for reporting. They also network and provide this information to each other.
Agreed. I am surprised that they don't go after any exchange that transacts more than 6 figures. It would be a high risk, medium return situation. Well worth the resources expended.
That establishes a lower bound on the value of someone's time.
So what about all the tasks that are worth less than that lower bound? Either they get automated or done on someone's off hours or not get done because there is no positive value to them. Then there is a subset of our population whose hourly worth is less than your lower bound. Think retired folks, high school students, and mentally challenged folks. These folks are kept out of the market completely.
Are you really saying stuff like paperboys, dog walking, burger flipping, babysitting, door man, etc should provide enough income to actually life off of?
If your lower bound is less than the market, then it is pointless anyway... everyone gets paid more than the minimum.
Reminds me of a story a professor told once while helping to set up a factory in China. A few years after the Nike thing, which was 20 years ago!!
He was adamant with the local factory owner that no one under 16 be allowed to work in the factory. For those under 10 they already had set up the daycare & educational facilities like other companies. They didn't want to repeat the Nike nightmare. It was not only a company policy, but one the prof took personally. He would not want his children working in this environment.
The owner just laughed. The professor got stern and said this was no laughing matter and had to be taken very seriously. The owner responded that Americans are very funny. No one under 16 will work in his factory. They will go back to their prior jobs. Jobs that will pay more than before because of the factory.
Later in the day, the prof asked what kids did here. He was a bit concerned that kids still thought they had to work... The owner replied that they will service the men standing in line outside the factory waiting for a spot in the next shift. The owner was surprised because the prof was the first American to have asked... The rest usually don't want to know.
My prof left speechless and the conversation still haunts him 10 years later. Just a few years later the local economy had improved enough that the factory was having trouble finding workers, let alone finding kids near it. But even to this day, there are other parts of the world that are still like that.
What good old times? People keep thinking history was some glorious time. It was shit; most of it was way worse than today! There were actual threats to worry about, actual wars, not enough food to buy, not enough gas, higher ppl to home ratios, people worked in more dangerous environments, had less stuff in the house...
I always wonder what the hell those people do when I'm gone.
They will be fine. They were just looking for the easiest and most simple path to get an answer. It was you. Without you they will use a little less simple path. They may even Google the answer! Hell, they might even learn something.
In general, people who seek help are neither as helpless nor stupid as they appear to be.
The same was true 100 years ago, 200 years ago,... You really think bookkeepers had the education to use Excel? Cotton pickers to operate the gins? Or hunters to plan out a years worth of farming?
Slashdot Mirror
And those tax breaks will be challenged in court by not only the competitors but also the audit & tax industries. Those will be overturned if unfair.
And we have this situation today already from corn & steel to financials & energy.
Farm equipment has been automated for quite sometime. Even Artic fishing has a heavy amount of automation. I am surprised that this sector has taken this long to automate things like trains and haulers...
Now digger automation I would like to see; where you trace out a 3D volume and let it go. It doesn't seem as simple as at first glance. Soil densities vary and you run into obstacles that need a little planning and strategy. Doing it wrong can break some expensive parts or at least wear them out faster. Neat times ahead, hope someone posts some YouTube vids.
I am assuming you really meant "computing". Not just desktop programming and gaming like the examples implied.
When I was just a lad, the adults had programming careers that were very fun. They solved complex puzzles, and problems. It was very frustrating but very rewarding. Even growing up, I enjoyed programming which was very much a "figuring things out" topic minus the grease and back pain of former generations.
But today, with more than a decade into adulthood, that topic has become mostly a commodity. Windows, Linux, embedded, or otherwise. Lots of people "program" and most problems have already been solved. It's more a test of google-fu than puzzle solving. As a career it is very boring, trivial, and narrow in the results. There are still positions like before but they are outnumbered 1000 to 1.
So computing in that aspect is no longer fun. Same with hardware, it's all the same. It's all commodity. The gains in the permutations are so minor that cost easily overrides the performance benefits in most cases. This is primarily because hardware has outclassed software. I think software is probably a decade behind hardware now.
But if we switch to micro computers, sensors, and networks beyond just wifi: The glory days of the past still exist. Smart homes, smart gardens, etc are just a few tinkering days away. The common geek has access to fabricate their own custom hardware solutions. Writing the software is still mostly trivial due to the internet, but the ideas and solutions custom to a geeks unique physical world or situation is well with in reach. In this space we are still only limited by our imaginations in defining the problems to solve.
It is still very much FUN!
Are we talking about the same U.K. that less than 70 years ago had more of the world's population under its control than most other countries combined? That controlled the world over, taxed them heavily, and gave no representation centrally? That made decisions centrally that mostly benefitted the elite few at the expense of the colonies?
I lean the other way. Taxes should only be collected on corporate profits and sales.
There are many benefits for this. The govt has less entities to go after in taxing. They spend less on earning the revenue. It's no small feat to process and check so many individual tax submissions. Additionally, with less actors, there is less fraud, less investigations, better funded, and higher returns per case. The govt can more easily direct the general market by taxing one sector over another or internationally over domestic. They can't impact/benefit specific companies as the other well funded companies will interfere. Any major inefficiencies or wastage of monies will be investigated and identified by corps demanding they keep the funds rather than have the govt waste it. The system encourages savings at the individual level but investments at the corp level.
For corporations, they can properly invest in the right amount of resources in processing taxes, paying politicians, lawyers for defense, and finding loopholes. We don't know of a more efficient entity for paying the minimum amount necessary. They also don't need to worry about calculating and paying different amounts of taxes on behalf of their employees and various benefits. Technically we already use corps as tax collectors for the majority of the nation's end user income taxes. Why not remove that job and cost?
For us, normal ppl, we don't need to worry about filing taxes every year. We don't need to worry about paying someone to navigate the tax code. The code is extremely simple for us, it's a percent of the sale. It gives us day to day transparency into the amount the govt takes to keep running. Which makes us more interested in how our govt spends the monies and thus helps the population make better calls during elections. Our savings can be passed on to our children without a middleman taking another cut but the society still benefits when it is spent or invested (directly or indirectly via loans). They aren't out gunned and taken advantage of in the taxation arena by politicians and corporations because they aren't a player.
You are correct in saying taxes do not come out of a corps' pocket, but they are excellent tax collectors and payers. Why not give them the whole job instead of passing it onto the uneducated (tax wise) masses?
I thought it was fairly obvious that he was just countering a silly offer with another silly offer. He was rejecting their offer and countering with something he knew would be rejected. It's kind of came off as a nice way of saying FU. The alternative was just leaving... might as well have a little fun.
The point is that most languages don't need motivation, let alone sufficient amounts of it to do what say.
What would an AI consider a dirty job?
I have audited many companies... and I think I have come across maybe 2 that do that to the level you describe. The others... just get shit done.
And here, we are talking about POSTS on a random website.... not the NYSE. My professor had a saying: "Don't waste dollars chasing pennies."
Are you actually being serious? They are online posts! These aren't someone's Doctoral thesis. They are random opinions and discussions of random people around the world in a public setting behind user IDs. People actually believe that a private company's staff doesn't have the ability to edit the content generated by the users of their services?
What are you going to do, have a private/public key for every account and have it signed for each and every post. Each user has a browser plugin wasting computing cycles retrieving and decrypting every post. ALL so that we can prevent the company that hosts the posts from editing them?
Come on, this isn't serious stuff. Yes, it was shit of him to do that and he lost people's trust. He will need to work to get that back. But nothing on most website's warrant the level of controls & reprimand you describe. Yes, have a policy. I would be surprised if there isn't one already. And terminate depending on the level of violation. But beyond that, there is nothing here to get panties all twisted. The guy apologized multiple times and the damage was undone.... move on.
No, that's what HFTs TRY to do. And if only ONE entity had control of the bots, you would be absolutely correct. But in the real world, there a hundreds of such powerful entities running thousands of such bots trying to get a part of that pie. And they all, total profit wise, make 1/100000 of a penny per trade when you consider the losses and running costs of that bot. Do they make profits, yes, but not as much as you folks think. Almost NO ONE reports the costs of these bots, they just speculate how much the TOTAL pie size is that the unknown number but massive DOS like frenzy of a feast had eaten up. The whole picture isn't as rosy.
That pie of profit all these posters against HFTs rally against, will never go to the general trader. Historically that went to FAR fewer individuals (100) that paid for a seat and sat at the NYSE/London/Chicago. This pie is now chopped into so many little pieces that the HFTs barely are worth it. HFTs die and new ones are born everyday.
Ideally for the market movers, hedge funds, and rich people, there would NO HFTs. Or there would be a monopoly one on each stock. But the reality is there are thousands upon thousands that fight against each other. The human users aren't even considered in their battles, but in the end are actually better off because without HFTs, it was other and fewer humans that had keys and were the ones taking advantage.
No, the profit is their incentive. They move prices quickly to the new equilibrium. They keep the information within the system synced. You may think that they don't provide liquidity but that doesn't make it true.
People forget that there were days when people could NOT sell their shares because there was no buyer. There were days when Ford was $3 at Chicago and $3.10 at NYSE! There were days when prices moved at 1/8 a dollar. And the guy on the trading floor made 1/8 a dollar for EVERY trade. Now... it's 1/1000 a dollar. Put those floor guys out of business. Replaced by computers. Put more stock and shares up for trading. Put the stock market in the hands of the general public.
No, the SEC doesn't get all uppity about CEOs bending the truth or even lying. CEOs are allowed to be a sales rep for their companies. They just can't materially misrepresent the numbers nor mislead on numbers not yet released. SEC gets pissed when the filings themselves are wrong.
Four bins? Are you a sales rep for HP or something? The most I have ever had to use was three... one for the client's laptop I was returning that week.
But I agree it's total bullshit. Even with all the extra hassel, I normally get slowed only by the agents being slow at their job. To me, the TSA is the new DMV.
Basically some payment systems allow 10-20 human errors per valid card number before triggering a fraud alert. 10 seems understandable for all those old folks with arthritis and poor eyesight. 20 seems like someone didn't know what they were doing or didn't change it during deployment from QA.
So what the article is saying is that it is theoretically possible for someone to write a program to submit random numbers to various sites and by the law of big numbers, figure out a valid CC & data in under 6 seconds.
Not really a big return there. Nor can this be used in mass, eventually the payment systems will see you as spam and if not them, the upstream will block the payment system because it is sending in too many invalid queries.
Even with a CC number, usage would still need to go through the rest of the fraud detection system. If this ever becomes a problem the obvious immediate answer is to lower the attempts to 5-10 or block repeat attempts for x seconds.
There are easier ways to get a lot more card numbers...
Germany, UK, France, and even Switzerland have been sharing financial information with the US (and vice verse) for over a decade. The US has been recording all global SWIFT transactions for well over 2 decades. Most banks that span across countries and participate in the SWIFT system already provide this information. Even from countries such as India, and Singapore.
If you are not a US citizen, the other members don't actively report on you but will upon request. It's not just a US thing. Germany/India/Canada can request as such in reverse.
This isn't some US overreach concept. The global banks were already doing this and had the capability. The governments just decided to plug into the system for tracking funds going to terrorists and tax havens.
The hard part for the governments is linking a specific person to all their foreign account numbers. For rich folks and companies, they can easily make accounts under aliases/shells/agents. It's the common citizen that can't really hide. But then again, the common citizen isn't worth going after.
What are you talking about?
USD is more accepted than ANY other currency globally. The top global commodities are traded in dollar. Just by sheer population volumes in the native countries, the Rupee and Renminbi are probably used a lot. But both those countries keep far more USD debt than any other foreign currency. Euro comes in second, but never replaced the USD in any of the global commodity trades. UK even prices their commodities in USD since the 90s.
True, I only meant US based entities. But just because a financial institution is not in the US doesn't mean it is out of reach. Many countries in the EU, Australia, Canada, India, etc actually have similar organizations that ask for reporting. They also network and provide this information to each other.
Agreed. I am surprised that they don't go after any exchange that transacts more than 6 figures. It would be a high risk, medium return situation. Well worth the resources expended.
That establishes a lower bound on the value of someone's time.
So what about all the tasks that are worth less than that lower bound? Either they get automated or done on someone's off hours or not get done because there is no positive value to them. Then there is a subset of our population whose hourly worth is less than your lower bound. Think retired folks, high school students, and mentally challenged folks. These folks are kept out of the market completely.
Are you really saying stuff like paperboys, dog walking, burger flipping, babysitting, door man, etc should provide enough income to actually life off of?
If your lower bound is less than the market, then it is pointless anyway... everyone gets paid more than the minimum.
Reminds me of a story a professor told once while helping to set up a factory in China. A few years after the Nike thing, which was 20 years ago!!
He was adamant with the local factory owner that no one under 16 be allowed to work in the factory. For those under 10 they already had set up the daycare & educational facilities like other companies. They didn't want to repeat the Nike nightmare. It was not only a company policy, but one the prof took personally. He would not want his children working in this environment.
The owner just laughed. The professor got stern and said this was no laughing matter and had to be taken very seriously. The owner responded that Americans are very funny. No one under 16 will work in his factory. They will go back to their prior jobs. Jobs that will pay more than before because of the factory.
Later in the day, the prof asked what kids did here. He was a bit concerned that kids still thought they had to work... The owner replied that they will service the men standing in line outside the factory waiting for a spot in the next shift. The owner was surprised because the prof was the first American to have asked... The rest usually don't want to know.
My prof left speechless and the conversation still haunts him 10 years later. Just a few years later the local economy had improved enough that the factory was having trouble finding workers, let alone finding kids near it. But even to this day, there are other parts of the world that are still like that.
What good old times? People keep thinking history was some glorious time. It was shit; most of it was way worse than today! There were actual threats to worry about, actual wars, not enough food to buy, not enough gas, higher ppl to home ratios, people worked in more dangerous environments, had less stuff in the house...
I always wonder what the hell those people do when I'm gone.
They will be fine. They were just looking for the easiest and most simple path to get an answer. It was you. Without you they will use a little less simple path. They may even Google the answer! Hell, they might even learn something.
In general, people who seek help are neither as helpless nor stupid as they appear to be.
The same was true 100 years ago, 200 years ago, ... You really think bookkeepers had the education to use Excel? Cotton pickers to operate the gins? Or hunters to plan out a years worth of farming?
Want a dumber stance: "THIS time around the world will end. No really, it will."