Nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM is the way I have always heard it. And used in that context, I agree. My experience with IBM products has been nothing but bad.
I don't know about other Oracle software, it's probably bloatware. But the Oracle DB is an awesome product. Proper handling of views, the ability to perform hierarchical queries, and SQL*Loader are alone worth the (high) cost of admission. Before you dismiss those, try working with hierarchical data in MySQL without nested querying and looping or a non scalable set of union queries. Also, try importing massive amounts of data and see what this does to performance on MySQL. Then try querying a view on some large tables in MySQL and notice the order in which the view's where clause is executed in relation to your query's where clause. For you to have that opinion, I can imagine you've never done these things in MySQL.
Oracle is a very good DB, but is also sensitive to being (im)properly managed. Since it's not a toy like MySQL or MSSQL, you need to hire a real DBA, one who actually understands databases and not some point-and-click monkey to work with MSSQL or someone who knows a few linux commands to work with MySQL (yay mtop and mysqldump!) And your devs need to actually understand how to design and index tables and write queries properly. IOW, basic competence for anyone who claims to know anything about databases.
You don't like Oracle because either a) you have suffered a bad implementation at the hands of incompetent DBAs/bad programmers, or b) are one of the preceding.
I have worked with MSSQL, Oracle, and MySQL extensively. Oracle leaves them all in the dust.
I had an old nextel motorola i80s about 8 years ago. I got angry one day and threw that phone as hard as I could against a concrete wall. I cooled off and picked it up to discover that the threaded hole that the antenna screwed into (a metal insert) had been irretrievably impacted into the phone.
nope, that sir is life at a startup. You have to deal with crap like that, but as a trade off you get to work in a fairly unregulated environment and with cool new tech. You just gotta quit whining, get to work, and hopefully enjoy the challenge.
I am currently working with a mission-critical codebase, which is written in PHP and has absolutely no cohesive design to it. Well, unless you consider making everything static and unnecessarily inheriting other classes and overwriting static variables willy-nilly a cohesive design. There are business rules just everywhere and API requests everywhere and all kinds of calls that overwrite static variables. If you don't methodically trace logic it's really easy to get lost. What makes it worse is that there are many many variables that are named very similarly and you don't really know which one is right and which one is just going to get overwritten in some method call you are not looking at right now. And if this software fails, the worst case scenario is that my company makes no money. It really has made my life over the last few weeks pretty horrid. Fortunately I enjoy the job and the co-workers and am well respected there. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth the aggravation.
My advice: communicate your difficulties to everyone who will listen (refrain from complaining or bellyaching, just communicate). If you inherit something like this, and it is mission critical, then you need to take as long as it takes to get it right. That's right, AS LONG as it takes. Take the time to document everything. Bother the crap out of anyone who can help you. You are responsible for doing your job, and part of doing your job is figuring out how to maintain this beast. And in order to do that, you need to use every resource at your disposal. If anyone wants to rush you along, you need to communicate the difficulty and the importance of the task. If you have been working at a place for a while and have done a good job to date, then they should trust you. If you're brand new, then you'd better hope someone there values your opinion and doesn't merely think you are incompetent. If you are asked to make enhancements, don't refactor until you understand the code. So make enhancements, leaving the potentially crappy code in place, even copying it if necessary. Steadfastly resist the temptation to refactor until you understand the entire piece that you are trying ti refactor. Don't remove seemingly unnecessary variables, and don't reduce seemingly redundant database calls. That comes later when you actually know what you are doing in there. IOW, if you have to navigate a lion's den by touch, don't stop to groom the sleeping lion (unless of course, that is your given task.)
The word inherit seems to imply that either the original maintainer no longer works there or has moved on to a different position. This means that it's you on the hook to figure it out. You've gotta dig in, buckle down, and get to it.
well that depends on how many developers we are talking about. The original question seems to indicate that the author has inherited the codebase. The need for this question wouldn't exist if the person were on some large team.
For one or two or five people, 40K lines is a sizable codebase, especially if it has been poorly maintained / designed.
You don't get it. Who would use javascript to do what you describe?
It's like calling a screwdriver a useless tool simply because it's not an arc welder.
Use javascript for what it's for and it excels. Attempts have been made to use javascript on the server (see Aptana's Jaxer) and if there was a good server for it, I would consider using instead of PHP.
yes, forget judging a book by its cover. Let's judge a programming language by the thickness of a (very good) textbook about it. Your rubric makes a ton of sense. I'll apply it to your short post.
"I actually wish JavaScript and other client-side browser scripting would be done away with completely, but JS is not a particularly 'good' language."
Most people who have this opinion are people who don't actually know how to write javascript or understand its power. Are you one of them? My bet is on yes. Oh, and as cool as jQuery is, knowing how to write jQuery is not the same as knowing how to write javascript.
all true. I worked for the company in question for years and this is nothing new. Before net neutrality, there was cable vs dsl. Before that, there was UNE-P (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/U/UNE_P.html). Before that, there was SBC vs ATT for long distance. Before that, there was probably some other bogeyman that they tried to rally everyone against.
Here's the thing: I never once contributed to their PAC. Not even once. I didn't use Cingular, I used a competing carrier until Cingular's service got better than the competition. I still use an AT&T DSL connection and phone service, even though I no longer work there. Why? I will choose to spend my money on whomever provides the best service at my price point. I made that clear to everyone I used to work with who gave me grief.
My job was never once threatened. I never received a bad review, never got any flack at all. I left of my own volition. Now, if I still worked there, I would never do what they are asking. I don't think there would be trouble over that.
The sad part is, though, many many many of those 300K employees *will* allow themselves be coerced to send this email, even without understanding what the fuss is about. This is more about people doing what they are told than some corporation "encouraging" employees to vote a certain way. That happens everywhere, and it's not fair to stick it to AT&T over this as though they are doing something unusual and outrageous. It's the mindless mass of people who go along with this, despite the fact that any implicit threat is empty. Any thinking person would realize that there's nothing they can really do about it.
I think you are confusing the issue. What you really want is a mechanic who already knew how to work on cars and went to school for the formality, as opposed to some drunk who flunked out of high school and just wanted to learn a trade to fund his trips to the gambling boat and wound up learning to be a mechanic. Likewise, a programmer who didn't know how to code before school is suspect. Especially those types who went to school for programming cause they heard they could make good money.
After working on something all day, who in their right mind wants to go home and do the same thing? I love playing music, but after a gig I don't go home and play. I'm tired of it for the day. And I LOVE music, sometimes a bit too much (to the exclusion of my family, something I have to constantly fight to keep in balance). You cannot question my love for music, and being that people repeatedly ask me to play for money means that I must not be too bad at it. But it has its limits.
I also love programming, but after working on it all day I am ready to go home and do something else. In fact, the people I have known who code at home often have to do so, because they wank all day at work.
"The sudden and inexplicable appearance of hills in Iowa will keep me up all night." Nope. Go find the hill, and sell tickets to it. You'll be filthy rich in no time!
Re:The guys behind EXTJS are terrible
on
Learning Ext JS
·
· Score: 1
"There will even be algorithms in the JS that they want to protect. They may be limited to obsfucation as a technique, but that can be pretty decent."
Unless said companies put pressure on browser makers to somehow re-engineer their javascript engines, who cares?
Just because I want to use a hammer to do some soldering doesn't mean it's the right tool for the job. If you want business logic to be kept hidden, then javascript isn't the tool for the job. That's what server-side scripting is for. When did people forget Web Development 101?
You can do PLENTY of stuff in javascript that isn't business logic. Save business logic for the back end.
Now, in principle I agree...even though we all know this, some business somewhere will try to lawyer up and protect their Javacscript. We'll see how well that turns out...the record industry could probably tell them how well that works, though.
Re:Javascript by definition is used by the clientq
on
Learning Ext JS
·
· Score: 1
I was thinking the same thing. But then again, HTML and CSS is fairly simplistic compared to Javascript (yes, I know HTML and CSS can get hairy if you need to do certain things). Javascript requires a lot more thought, design, and good old fashioned programming skills. I too think it's silly, but I can also see how someone might feel that a huge library like EXTJS, jQuery, etc, could be more than just some client-side plain text file.
I think as we see more logic embedded within javascript, and thus more time spent writing javascript, you'll start to see organizations grow more protective of their javascript. Of course, unless browser makers ruin the whole thing and somehow figure out a way to make it protected on the client, they'll be grasping at sand, but it won't stop them from trying. If fact, that's what'll kill javascript if anything does.
People, take a look at this! This is serious stuff! Thus guy knows what he is doing....giving us all fits of spastic laughter!
Some excerpts from the comments on that video:
From the guy demonstrating how to make orgonite, chastising someone who called him a quack: " Please educate yourself before spreading misinformation "
and this: " All you nay sayers - to eachï his own - but NIKOLA TESLA WAS RIDICULED AS WELL - and he's no quack - the TESLA car hit the roads this summer. "
and this: " tower busters won't work unless they contain Iron clippings. Iron forms the core of our planet, creatingï a magnetic field, so the tower busters need to contain iron to enable to channeling of the Earth's magnetism! "
this one makes me think about going to the NM desert with a metal detector " Goldï leaf (24 carat) is also available on ebay and is relatively inexpensive and in combination with Copper or Aluminum it will enhance the energy of a personal orgone generator. "
in the i-beg-to-differ category: " 507qnz, Generally orgonite is very foolproof... " indeed.
and finally, in the new-age-whacko-smackdown category: " carbednotch: if you use aluminum, aï toxic metal, it will make bad energy
lifeenergysolutions: not trueï - from much experience. carbednotch:
'Somehow what Amazon actually did is considered being handled "poorly"?'
Yes. What gives some corporation the right to remove content from MY device? Oh, the draconian licensing agreement that comes with the Kindle! Which is why I have no interest in one.
Still, removing content from a user's device? I could see it if perhaps the device were somehow paid for by Amazon. But if I buy it, I don't want someone else removing my content.
hahaha, modded troll! Haven't seen that in a while! I take some stupid moderators fell for the old uid/pwd url trick, eh? Mods are not quite what they used to be around here, I guess.
If it takes that much effort to read what is essentially a fluff piece, I for one will not read it. Not preloading the pages in different tabs, not clicking next 20 times. Stupid web developers. grumble grumble. No sense of usability. grumble grumble grumble.
Slashdot Mirror
Nobody ever got fired for choosing IBM is the way I have always heard it. And used in that context, I agree. My experience with IBM products has been nothing but bad.
I don't know about other Oracle software, it's probably bloatware. But the Oracle DB is an awesome product. Proper handling of views, the ability to perform hierarchical queries, and SQL*Loader are alone worth the (high) cost of admission. Before you dismiss those, try working with hierarchical data in MySQL without nested querying and looping or a non scalable set of union queries. Also, try importing massive amounts of data and see what this does to performance on MySQL. Then try querying a view on some large tables in MySQL and notice the order in which the view's where clause is executed in relation to your query's where clause. For you to have that opinion, I can imagine you've never done these things in MySQL.
Oracle is a very good DB, but is also sensitive to being (im)properly managed. Since it's not a toy like MySQL or MSSQL, you need to hire a real DBA, one who actually understands databases and not some point-and-click monkey to work with MSSQL or someone who knows a few linux commands to work with MySQL (yay mtop and mysqldump!) And your devs need to actually understand how to design and index tables and write queries properly. IOW, basic competence for anyone who claims to know anything about databases.
You don't like Oracle because either a) you have suffered a bad implementation at the hands of incompetent DBAs/bad programmers, or b) are one of the preceding.
I have worked with MSSQL, Oracle, and MySQL extensively. Oracle leaves them all in the dust.
I had an old nextel motorola i80s about 8 years ago. I got angry one day and threw that phone as hard as I could against a concrete wall. I cooled off and picked it up to discover that the threaded hole that the antenna screwed into (a metal insert) had been irretrievably impacted into the phone.
The dang thing still worked.
They don't make em like that anymore.
nope, that sir is life at a startup. You have to deal with crap like that, but as a trade off you get to work in a fairly unregulated environment and with cool new tech. You just gotta quit whining, get to work, and hopefully enjoy the challenge.
I am currently working with a mission-critical codebase, which is written in PHP and has absolutely no cohesive design to it. Well, unless you consider making everything static and unnecessarily inheriting other classes and overwriting static variables willy-nilly a cohesive design. There are business rules just everywhere and API requests everywhere and all kinds of calls that overwrite static variables. If you don't methodically trace logic it's really easy to get lost. What makes it worse is that there are many many variables that are named very similarly and you don't really know which one is right and which one is just going to get overwritten in some method call you are not looking at right now. And if this software fails, the worst case scenario is that my company makes no money. It really has made my life over the last few weeks pretty horrid. Fortunately I enjoy the job and the co-workers and am well respected there. Otherwise, it wouldn't be worth the aggravation.
My advice: communicate your difficulties to everyone who will listen (refrain from complaining or bellyaching, just communicate). If you inherit something like this, and it is mission critical, then you need to take as long as it takes to get it right. That's right, AS LONG as it takes. Take the time to document everything. Bother the crap out of anyone who can help you. You are responsible for doing your job, and part of doing your job is figuring out how to maintain this beast. And in order to do that, you need to use every resource at your disposal. If anyone wants to rush you along, you need to communicate the difficulty and the importance of the task. If you have been working at a place for a while and have done a good job to date, then they should trust you. If you're brand new, then you'd better hope someone there values your opinion and doesn't merely think you are incompetent. If you are asked to make enhancements, don't refactor until you understand the code. So make enhancements, leaving the potentially crappy code in place, even copying it if necessary. Steadfastly resist the temptation to refactor until you understand the entire piece that you are trying ti refactor. Don't remove seemingly unnecessary variables, and don't reduce seemingly redundant database calls. That comes later when you actually know what you are doing in there. IOW, if you have to navigate a lion's den by touch, don't stop to groom the sleeping lion (unless of course, that is your given task.)
The word inherit seems to imply that either the original maintainer no longer works there or has moved on to a different position. This means that it's you on the hook to figure it out. You've gotta dig in, buckle down, and get to it.
well that depends on how many developers we are talking about. The original question seems to indicate that the author has inherited the codebase. The need for this question wouldn't exist if the person were on some large team.
For one or two or five people, 40K lines is a sizable codebase, especially if it has been poorly maintained / designed.
You don't get it. Who would use javascript to do what you describe?
It's like calling a screwdriver a useless tool simply because it's not an arc welder.
Use javascript for what it's for and it excels. Attempts have been made to use javascript on the server (see Aptana's Jaxer) and if there was a good server for it, I would consider using instead of PHP.
Not everything needs to be Java, C#, or C++.
yes, forget judging a book by its cover. Let's judge a programming language by the thickness of a (very good) textbook about it. Your rubric makes a ton of sense. I'll apply it to your short post.
"I actually wish JavaScript and other client-side browser scripting would be done away with completely, but JS is not a particularly 'good' language."
Most people who have this opinion are people who don't actually know how to write javascript or understand its power. Are you one of them? My bet is on yes. Oh, and as cool as jQuery is, knowing how to write jQuery is not the same as knowing how to write javascript.
all true. I worked for the company in question for years and this is nothing new. Before net neutrality, there was cable vs dsl. Before that, there was UNE-P (http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/U/UNE_P.html). Before that, there was SBC vs ATT for long distance. Before that, there was probably some other bogeyman that they tried to rally everyone against.
Here's the thing: I never once contributed to their PAC. Not even once. I didn't use Cingular, I used a competing carrier until Cingular's service got better than the competition. I still use an AT&T DSL connection and phone service, even though I no longer work there. Why? I will choose to spend my money on whomever provides the best service at my price point. I made that clear to everyone I used to work with who gave me grief.
My job was never once threatened. I never received a bad review, never got any flack at all. I left of my own volition. Now, if I still worked there, I would never do what they are asking. I don't think there would be trouble over that.
The sad part is, though, many many many of those 300K employees *will* allow themselves be coerced to send this email, even without understanding what the fuss is about. This is more about people doing what they are told than some corporation "encouraging" employees to vote a certain way. That happens everywhere, and it's not fair to stick it to AT&T over this as though they are doing something unusual and outrageous. It's the mindless mass of people who go along with this, despite the fact that any implicit threat is empty. Any thinking person would realize that there's nothing they can really do about it.
I think you are confusing the issue. What you really want is a mechanic who already knew how to work on cars and went to school for the formality, as opposed to some drunk who flunked out of high school and just wanted to learn a trade to fund his trips to the gambling boat and wound up learning to be a mechanic. Likewise, a programmer who didn't know how to code before school is suspect. Especially those types who went to school for programming cause they heard they could make good money.
After working on something all day, who in their right mind wants to go home and do the same thing? I love playing music, but after a gig I don't go home and play. I'm tired of it for the day. And I LOVE music, sometimes a bit too much (to the exclusion of my family, something I have to constantly fight to keep in balance). You cannot question my love for music, and being that people repeatedly ask me to play for money means that I must not be too bad at it. But it has its limits.
I also love programming, but after working on it all day I am ready to go home and do something else. In fact, the people I have known who code at home often have to do so, because they wank all day at work.
no, that WWI was largely a result of divisions already existing that were sparked by nationalism and resulted in a divided world.
Kaiser Wilhelm and Czar Nicholas were cousins, and yet their countries were largely responsible for starting WWI...point being?
"Or a spinning bow-tie maybe? Seems quite appropriate for the LHC."
Well, bow-ties that are *supposed* to spin but don't would be most appropriate.
"However, one might ask why the instability does not develop any further into a full mammatus."
not enough growth hormones?
"The sudden and inexplicable appearance of hills in Iowa will keep me up all night."
Nope. Go find the hill, and sell tickets to it. You'll be filthy rich in no time!
"There will even be algorithms in the JS that they want to protect. They may be limited to obsfucation as a technique, but that can be pretty decent."
Unless said companies put pressure on browser makers to somehow re-engineer their javascript engines, who cares?
Just because I want to use a hammer to do some soldering doesn't mean it's the right tool for the job. If you want business logic to be kept hidden, then javascript isn't the tool for the job. That's what server-side scripting is for. When did people forget Web Development 101?
You can do PLENTY of stuff in javascript that isn't business logic. Save business logic for the back end.
Now, in principle I agree...even though we all know this, some business somewhere will try to lawyer up and protect their Javacscript. We'll see how well that turns out...the record industry could probably tell them how well that works, though.
I was thinking the same thing. But then again, HTML and CSS is fairly simplistic compared to Javascript (yes, I know HTML and CSS can get hairy if you need to do certain things). Javascript requires a lot more thought, design, and good old fashioned programming skills. I too think it's silly, but I can also see how someone might feel that a huge library like EXTJS, jQuery, etc, could be more than just some client-side plain text file.
I think as we see more logic embedded within javascript, and thus more time spent writing javascript, you'll start to see organizations grow more protective of their javascript. Of course, unless browser makers ruin the whole thing and somehow figure out a way to make it protected on the client, they'll be grasping at sand, but it won't stop them from trying. If fact, that's what'll kill javascript if anything does.
Look at Orion Blastar's post history. You, my friend, have just been trolled. This Orion Blastar guy probably makes Orgonite.
People, take a look at this! This is serious stuff! Thus guy knows what he is doing....giving us all fits of spastic laughter!
Some excerpts from the comments on that video:
From the guy demonstrating how to make orgonite, chastising someone who called him a quack:
"
Please educate yourself before spreading misinformation
"
and this:
"
All you nay sayers - to eachï his own - but NIKOLA TESLA WAS RIDICULED AS WELL - and he's no quack - the TESLA car hit the roads this summer.
"
and this:
"
tower busters won't work unless they contain Iron clippings. Iron forms the core of our planet, creatingï a magnetic field, so the tower busters need to contain iron to enable to channeling of the Earth's magnetism!
"
this one makes me think about going to the NM desert with a metal detector
"
Goldï leaf (24 carat) is also available on ebay and is relatively inexpensive and in combination with Copper or Aluminum it will enhance the energy of a personal orgone generator.
"
in the i-beg-to-differ category:
"
507qnz, Generally orgonite is very foolproof...
"
indeed.
and finally, in the new-age-whacko-smackdown category:
"
carbednotch:
if you use aluminum, aï toxic metal, it will make bad energy
lifeenergysolutions:
not trueï - from much experience.
carbednotch:
yes trueï - according to the orgone handbook.
"
"Annoying, but not enough to cause me to take down the tower."
I take it this was before the likes of the Jonas Brothers and Miley Cyrus were played on the FM stations then?
hahahahahahaha.
So much anger there
directed at me, from a
small minded person
'Somehow what Amazon actually did is considered being handled "poorly"?'
Yes. What gives some corporation the right to remove content from MY device? Oh, the draconian licensing agreement that comes with the Kindle! Which is why I have no interest in one.
Still, removing content from a user's device? I could see it if perhaps the device were somehow paid for by Amazon. But if I buy it, I don't want someone else removing my content.
hahaha, modded troll! Haven't seen that in a while! I take some stupid moderators fell for the old uid/pwd url trick, eh? Mods are not quite what they used to be around here, I guess.
I found a copy of the flyer. It's on boingboing here http://boingboing.net.f190ac09353be9:viodnjwer@goatse.cx.
No! Wrong, all of you!
If it takes that much effort to read what is essentially a fluff piece, I for one will not read it. Not preloading the pages in different tabs, not clicking next 20 times. Stupid web developers. grumble grumble. No sense of usability. grumble grumble grumble.