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Ted Dziuba Says, "I Don't Code In My Free Time"
theodp writes "When he gets some free time away from his gigs at startup Milo and The Register, you won't catch Ted Dziuba doing any recreational programming. And he wouldn't want to work for a company that doesn't hire those who don't code in their spare time. 'You know what's more awesome than spending my Saturday afternoon learning Haskell by hacking away at a few Project Euler problems?' asks Dziuba. 'F***, ANYTHING.'"
Also:
Who cares?
Yeah and the whole world should be just like him!
... in computers. Isn't that worth something when weighing up job candidates? Sorry , but if this guy doesn't realise that someone who is interested in what they do as a day job will probably put in more effort that someone who's just a clock watching for-the-money type then frankly he's an idiot. This rule applies to ANY profession, not just programming.
Greetings! Problem 260 will be accessible on Sat 17 Oct 2009 at 1.00 am [GMT]. With regards, Project Euler Team
Neither does Jack Black, so what?
If he doesn't code in his spare time, obviously he won't find himself working anywhere that only hires people that do.
ASCII stupid question, get a stupid ANSI
Slacker
That is all
When I worked as a spaghetti cook and eating spaghetti every night for three years, I didn't eat spaghetti for the next seven years.
When I worked as video game tester for six years, I very rarely played video games at home. After 40 to 80 hours a week testing games, I wanted to do something different with my time.
I been resisting offers to do technical writing since I write fiction in my off times. An ideal job is one that you can separate from your personal life.
His articles on Te Register mark him as an attention seeking nobody.
Seeing this article here makes me want to slap someone, Mr Dziubas should not only not be given the oxygen of publicity, but oxygen itself is wasted on him
I mean, you wouldn't hire a gardener who had a garden of his own - would you?
Schmuck.
OMG!!! Ponies!!!
I don't read Ted Dziuba's articles in my free time...or when I am working, actually.
AT&ROFLMAO
but for some working is all the formalism that is involved, or the particular thing that must be used or worked on. But coding could be fun, even more fun than some games. Of course, that is purely subjective. If he dont think that coding could be fun, and work in coding, maybe is doing the wrong work.
So he would want to work for those who do hire people who don't code in their spare time? Or would want to work for those who don't hire people who do code in their spare time? Or what?
And Who's on first, right?
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
Article summary: Smug douchebag knows it all, or gets to learn it all on the job.
Good for him. But for normal people who are, say, coding ASP or Visual Basic 6 at work-- if they would like to have some professional development, I hope they're doing some coding on the side to reinvent themselves. People that don't generally end up doing something like working on COBOL systems principally written in the 60's and 70's. Not that there's anything wrong with that. I'm just saying: most people need to do some personal development off the the side of their job, or else they're stagnating. Plenty of people will disagree with me on this point, and have in the past on Slashdot. But generally speaking, those people have quit growing, and will of course deny it.
Personally I try to avoid companies that care that much about what I do in MY time in general. If I'm not on the clock, its none of your fucking business. If I decide to learn a new language on my own, it is irrelevant until I start using it at work, in which case I expect my going above and beyond to be noticed. If it is required that I learn something new for work, I sure as hell had better be paid by the company for it one way or another (even if it just means doing the learning during company time).
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I agree with Ted - you can code in your dungeon, or you could go out, make friends, play with your kids, work on your hobbies, volunteer at a charity, learn how to cook, make a well rounded life for yourself.
Code probably fulfills a need to do puzzles and keep the brain entertained, but the world is so much bigger, and computers aren't going to keep you happy in your old age.
So he's saying he doesn't like programmers who enjoy what they do? Interesting.
I've never known a *good* programmer who doesn't write code as a hobby.
Today's weirdness is tomorrow's reason why. -- Hunter S. Thompson
I used to love to fish, I loved it so much that I opened a bait shop. But as the Bait shop became successful it took up more and more of my time. Until i was left with no time to go fishing.
from his POV.
If you're a senior dev with years of experience under your belt, perhaps yous hould do something else with your time off. If you're a green horn who should be getting a little jump start and some experience, that's a different story.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I agree with him on all 3 points
Work is the boring stuff. You're fixing tedious bugs in tedious applications dealing with tedious real world problems like the cover page of the new TPS report. It's like a ski instructor that have to deal with all the horribly inexperienced people doing things all wrong or at least it's nothing like cruising along freely yourself. Obviously after a long day on the job I understand that this person would just want to go home, eat a pizza and do something completely different. But I'd be concerned about the coder that didn't have any pet projects, any interest in coding outside work like a ski instructor that never just goes skiing. No deadlines, no pressure, no dealing with poor specs, annoying customers or superiors. If you don't ever tinker with anything under those conditions I really don't see you giving it your best during work hours either. I don't mean that you need to have a long list of "public" off-hours coding experience that can be validated and put on your CV, just as a personality treat.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
And that's why we *never* heard of him before, and *never* will again...
I hope they go public so I can short their stock. It's not very often that you get such a clear sell signal.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
You want to know how I learned Haskell? By doing project euler problems... DRUNK. See, this guy is all hoity-toity about going to the bar on weekends.... I bring the bar to ME, then I go out into the trenches, a little bit of beer, and solve those project euler problems after 5 beers minimum.
Nothing like a 12 pack and a functional, correctly solved project euler problem to separate the men from the boys.
Most people don't. So what?
Warning: this article may contain humor, sarcasm, parody, and perhaps even irony. Read at your own risk.
When you're looking to hire a gardener, do you examine his previous work, or do you make sure he spends at least x hours a day tending his own garden?
If you do the latter, you're the bigger schmuck.
I'd also like to point out, that this Ted fellow did not say "I'd never work someplace where any of the other employees code at home". He says "I don't want to work someplace where coding at home is _a requirement_". There's a big difference.
If I'm not eating or sleeping, I'm coding, but don't let that imply I have any spare time.
He probably spends most of his spare time writing to the makers of Scrabble trying to persuade them that surnames should be allowed as legitimate words.
AT&ROFLMAO
Let's see if it helps me drop out of college and commit suicide for feeling like a failure.
Programming is a trade skill, not art.
While your hobbies and your job might be similar, still doesn't mean you want them to be the same. For example I'm a classic computer geek in many ways in that computers are my business and my hobby. I work doing systems and network support, and I like to spend my free time playing video games, messing with digital audio production, and so on. Most of my time is spent on a computer.
However, I discovered that doing computer support professionally has now given me little patience for doing it after hours. I no longer wish to spend time messing with my computer at home. I want it to just work, and get rather annoyed when it doesn't. I'm not interested in any hardware or software support. I want it to work, so I can use it to do other things.
Because of that I don't do many of the hardware geek things like overclock my system or the like. Not interested. I'll pay more to get a faster CPU if I need it, the stability is worth me not having to fuck with it. To some people, it is the opposite: Messing with the hardware is more than half the fun. Not me, I do that at work, at home I want it stable all the time.
So I can for sure see a programmer being the same way with regards to programming. Maybe they totally eschew computers on their off time, maybe they use them heavily but don't code. Either way I can see how coding could become a "work only" sort of thing.
That is, in fact, one of the reasons why I don't look for a job in the video game field. I've thought about it since at first it would seem to be a good idea. I like computers, I like games, I enjoy tech jobs so maybe I'd enjoy it more than my current job. However, I think it would likely ruin, or at very least dampen, my enjoyment of games in my off time. As such it is something I'm staying away from.
Well, he is right: to succeed in business, you generally don't need to be particularly innovative or high-tech. Hiring average programmers that are easy to work with is probably a better business decision than hiring difficult top-notch nerds. But why go into high tech at all then? If you aren't fascinated by technology and just view the whole thing as a business, you might as well make your money with toilet paper or hamburgers.
Always with the "my time is my time" self-absorbed types making it seem like the rest of us don't have lives. Well, I have a life. I am not a mutant !!
I code, therefore I am. I am a kernel hacker !! That is a life unto itself. Maybe not what you call a "life", but if it weren't for me, you'd be sucking at Microsoft's tit instead of mine !!
I have no idea who you are, and as far as I can tell you don't have a privileged opinion, so I'm going to treat your blog post like any other post on slashdot.
The problem here isn't not coding when you're not working. The problem isn't that you don't spend your weekends learning Haskell when your job has nothing to do with Haskell. I doubt an employer has ever raised such an expectation. You seem to be setting this up as a straw man, but what you seem to be reacting against is the desire of employers to hire, retain, and reward employees who have a willingness to go above and beyond the call of duty.
I don't know how smart or valuable you think you are, but considering I've never heard of you, and your post made it to Slashdot by way of your personal blog, you're probably not as unique and special as you think you are. If you aren't willing to go the extra mile, especially in this job market, there is a line of 10 guys behind you who are, and who are probably just as intelligent, and who will be grateful for the opportunity.
You're welcome to be a 9 to 5 guy, and you're welcome to blog about it, but please drop this pretense that you are entitled to be, or are a better employee for it.
Man, I dug up my Slashdot account just so I could one-up the "coolstorybro" tag.
What this guy probably doesn't know, is that just about all coders that actually are any good at their job, love the endless unlimited possibilities their knowledge provides so much that they simply don't give a fuck about whether somebody is paying them to do it or not. They _HAVE_TO_CREATE_. They _HAVE_TO_SOLVE_PROBLEMS_. They simply cannot be stopped.
While there may be many not-so-good programmers that love to code in their spare time, I have actually _NEVER_ met any good programmer/engineer/developer/whatever that DOESN'T WANT to code in their spare time. I don't think they exist. However, I do think many exist that THINK they're a good programmer. Probably this Ted Dziuba guy is one of them. I'd never hire him.
0x or or snor perron?!
I think that's what it boils down. To some people beating your head against the wall to solve the impossible problem of the week is a jolly good time. To others it's...well...beating your head against the wall.
Being on call constantly both when I worked tech support and now as a coder I can see where the "screw you I'm 9 to 5" mentality comes from. There's projects I'd like to work on but after a long day of work I'm just ready to sit back and turn my brain off for awhile.
The funny thing is that solving Project Euler problems using Haskell on Saturdays, is one of my favorite free time activities. No kidding, I really love coding in Haskell, and Project Euler got some really interesting problems.
What is this "free time" of which you speak? Is that like when you're code is compiling?
The players name is "Hu", which you're mistaking for a question.
Are we supposed to know of him ? What has he accomplished in the past ? Who/What are his affiliates ? I really feel that the story poster should have given some more info on these topics, for those of us who are not 'in-the-loop'...
I am exactly the same. Being a web application engineer, i do not want to work on hobby projects at sparetime. Coding has always, and will always be a tool in my disposal, just a tool.
I do occasionally on my spare time read about some cool stuff related to coding, but not much. It reminds me of work. Instead on my spare time, i work on things which has the very least amount to do with computers as possible. Namely, i work on oldschool drifting car, or other car projects most likely. Maybe it sounds an very odd combination, but hey, i get exercise working on cars aswell. Lifting the motor, or banging on some suspension parts to get them loose or to fit, or get the current project done so i can finally get home, does take amazingly much stamina and strength, and when things go shit you are basicly running around or get back to home sooner and faster. Working on a car till 6-7AM ain't no light task.
Pulsed Media Seedboxes
The point is that you can be pretty darn sure that the person is NOT more skilled or knowledgeable.
Though imperfect, desire to hack on personal projects is a damn good lameness filter.
Yeah, it's much more entertaining to be a, flippant, opinionated blowhard in your spare time :P
They _HAVE_TO_CREATE_. They _HAVE_TO_SOLVE_PROBLEMS_.
And one more, they _HAVE_TO_UNDERSTAND_. Understand what you say? Simply put, everything.
Speaking for myself, it was the need to understand the magic of electricity/electronics that drove me into that field. It was just so magical - you can't see an electron... That introduced me to programming and embedded systems. How does an OS work? Once again, it was all so magical and it led me to a CS degree. (That and I could see a future where embedded systems were not all programmed in assembly - higher level languages and techniques would be required for the future.)
The need to understand still drives me and will likely never go away. I hope it never goes away....
He talks in one post about how his best articles are trolls. The gentleman is proud of the fact. He also seems to have a long history with startups (= long work weeks and usually good opportunities to learn tech to begin with). He might as well have flagged the post as a sensationalist attempt to get blog traffic.
twoDigitIq says: "I don't have any free time. I'm always coding. I haven't had a day off in a fucking month." And again, nobody gives a shit when he says that.
http://teddziuba.com/2009/08/a-happy-life-without-the-whini.html/
There's an old example / argument about this issue and it goes like this: "Would you hire (or go to) a neurosurgeon who practices in his spare time?".
It's a little extreme but I feel it gets the point through - creative yet sensitive work makes people burn up faster.
-- Sig down
He has no idea what "those parts" feel like from the perspective of the owner. The pain caused by needlessly cutting and stitching them (an episiotomy for example) isn't something that he will ever fully understand.
that he admits he likes to solve difficult problems in his spare time. ..
Therefore he is as interested as anybody, just prefers different things. Who knows maybe he is constructing something in his backyard or looking at complex physics
And i think that is exactly the key aspect of a good tech person - enjoys Thinking
"Get a Life" by William Shatner.
Ted Dziuba is trying to tell people who code in their own time to get a life and do other things like start up relationships, live life, get married, save up for a house or car, etc.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
If you don't program in your spare time, you either:
- Don't touch computers in your spare time, meaning I will sometimes need to explain to you how to open the Internet. I don't want you to work in the same department as me.
- or - Don't use programming to solve problems on your computer at home. Why should I expect you to see programming as a solution to problems you spot at work? Sounds like someone who would either say "that's not part of my job description!" or who (more importantly) wouldn't think to mention it, since they'd never even think of applying their supposed skills to a problem.
- or - at the very least, have no experience programming outside of whatever niche you've been stuck in for the past five, ten, fifteen, etc, years. The job was for "C Programmer" not "The macros and function library of a specific twenty-year-old example of bit-rot Programmer"
It's also worth noting that everyone who says they don't program at home does horribly on the rest of the interview, without fail, while most people who say they do program at home wind up doing quite well.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
For really good programmers, the actual "writing code" part is so natural that it's like speaking - you do it without noticable mental effort. When you reach that level, the "work" part is system architecture, scheduling, communication of design ideas. Doing programming when you get home isn't much different than continuing to speak to people if you're a professional public speaker.
The pleasure of programming at home is being released from the constraints of work programming. You can write what you fancy - on your own schedule. If you decide that you want to scrap the design and start again - costing you a month of work - you can...no boss to arm-wrestle into agreement, you can just "do the right thing".
But that doesn't mean you do the same thing - I write computer games for a living - I'm building a computer-controlled milling machine "for fun".
I wouldn't go so far as to say I wouldn't hire someone who doesn't program "for fun" - but I'd be suspicious about how comfortable they are with the art of programming.
168 comments in, probably no one is going to read this. Still, I'll say it anyway.
I wouldn't hire someone who had no interest what-so-ever programming in their spare time. That said, I also wouldn't hire someone that does nothing else but program in their spare time. I'm not looking for someone that can solve a general problem (what do I do when I'm not working?) in a specific way. I want a hint that the person I'm talking with during an interview has other interests. I don't want to know what they are. That leads to information I'm not supposed to know during an interview. I just want them to give me an assurance that they are a well-rounded person with other pursuits.
Myself? Of course I program in my spare time. I also collect books, smoke and collect tobacco pipes, play RPGs (the pen and paper kind) with my friends, play computer games, cook... the list of things I do in my spare time is endless. That's what I'm looking for, because someone who doesn't lack for things to do in their spare time most liely comes with several approaches to solving new problems and that's the type of person I'm looking to hire.
He sounds like a textbook MCSE/MSCD and is probably about as skilled as such. The only thing he seems to be good at is marketing seeing as that we're talking about him here in spite of never having heard of him until now.
Congrats on getting your name out there!
I don't code in my free time either. Of course, I work for Electronic Arts, so...
This guy sounds like he hates programming. I would not be surprised if he changed jobs soon.
to programming. I started and learned it on my own, in my spare time, while working retail, manual labor, or whatever other crap job was available. Now I have a family, a house, a full time job coding, a part time business coding, and I *still* love coding in my spare time, what little there is.
I don't see how hiring someone who loves what they do is a bad thing, even if they love it enough to do it in their spare time.
good you don't want that free time to be free work and your boss can say you like to code in your free time / how about doing some work at home?
...oh, and he evidently has time to write long blog entries. I love the irony of trying to sound smug and superior "I spend time with my family and my kids' development", whilst tapping away into a computer, posting it on the Internet and then posting it to Slashdot...
Regardless of what The Most Insightful 25 Year Old Programmer in the World thinks, it's still the employer's prerogative. And I'm willing to bet that if he finds himself in an interview for a job he desperately wants, he'll be willing to let this stance of his fall by the wayside and lie a bit... at which time he'll regret the Slashdot article titled "Ted Dziuba Says, "Fuck you, prospective employer!" that turns up on the first page of the Google search that the interviewer is sure to do on his name.
I can't trust that I'll interpret the original writer's intentions correctly here....
Hello, new way to spend my weekends! See, this is why I read /.
Those of you who don't have kids, won't get it.
I know, because it's not like we don't have any siblings with kids or friends with kids or were kids ourselves. We know nothing about kids, or parenting, or... what is it you call it? Family?
Please never, ever, ever say this. It is so unbelievably insulting. I actually can think of a couple childless people I know who seemed to be clueless about the lifestyle of coworkers with kids, but I can count them on one hand.
No, I don't know personally what it's like to be responsible for someone's physical and emotional well-being, but I've seen it done, and it looks pretty hard. I don't whine about coworkers with kids until it seems like they use it as a blanket excuse for why they can't do anything even when every other parent is fine with it. You know exactly what I'm talking about (unless you're the one who is always dropping the ball "because of the kids"). It's a mean trick to play on someone, to make them feel like they are directly harming the development of a little child by asking that someone pull their weight.
Then there's the other side. My wife and I can't have kids. That's okay with us; we've gotten over being depressed about it, and have just decided to be active with our families in other ways in the hopes that maybe a niece or nephew might visit us in the nursing home, or at least pick up our ashes. But try selling that to a boss if you don't have kids. People without kids still have families and still want to be connected to them, but unless those family members fell out of your own crotch, they don't really count. It's not like I'm saying "I can't make it to that meeting; my dad has the sniffles." But "Any way I can get out of that unscheduled meeting you threw right in the middle of my family reunion weekend?"
Ugh, why am I even bothering?
Those of you who have kids won't get it. ;-)
Didn't your mother ever tell you not to use triple negatives? Hope this Bozo doesn't code like he speaks.
Free Time? I'm sorry but that is not a term I am familiar with. What is it and what do you do with it?
Is anyone else confused by the triple negative in this sentence? "And he wouldn't want to work for a company that doesn't hire those who don't code in their spare time." Perhaps he should pick a book on writing or grammar of the English sort in his spare time. I'm not sure I would hire someone who can't write a simple declarative sentence. Programming languages come and go, but the ability to clearly articulate an idea is forever.
In the past I would code in my spare time but I avoid it now. Life is toooo short and there is tooo much to do. If you wont hire me because of that then thats ok, I dont work for idiots and someone else will :)
Are there good artists who don't make art in their free time, or good musicians who don't make music in their free time?
The managers you work for, to keep their jobs and get raises, are literally vultures these days. If you come up with something really neat, and the bosses think it might somehow fit into what the company might want, to keep YOUR job, you turn it over to them. Unpaid hours of development = the company making profit just so you can keep your job?
The main reason back in the old days that the unions didn't get so much as a foothold into the tech culture is because tech companies were smart enough to treat their talent really, really well. (If you weren't, well, sorry about your misfortune, but you were in the minority.) You got paid solid pay much higher than the area average, you got full benefits, you had a degree of job security, and you could goof off from time to time and no one held it against you. Over the last 5 years, I've noticed the total number of months I've actually worked for pay drop to literally 6 months a year. I've had "jobs" where I discovered I was competing against an offshore team for consulting teams (and obviously losing because I was unwilling to work for 10 bucks an hour). Benefits? Haven't had even remotely decent coverage for many years. And the last few jobs I've worked, I was (along with my team) highly pressured to "innovate" on my own time in order to keep my job. In order to keep my contract position with no benefits, I was expected to "take ownership" of things on my own time.
An auto shop is not going to threaten to fire their contract employees if they don't work overtime for free. You won't see that in most industries. But because a lot of developers are basically pussies and won't stand up, get together, and fight back, companies are going to do this more and more because they can get away with stealing the fruits of labor YOU create on YOUR OWN time. No, developers are more willing to lay down, call themselves libertarians, rag on the unions, bitch and moan about having no free hours in their days, cry when they get laid off, and stay in that cycle until they drop dead.
I'm just surprised that this kid is burned out already. Usually takes several more years of being used like a whore by managers who contribute nothing more than their ability to lie and cover their own asses. He must be REALLY smart.
And doing it professionally since I was 29. I'm 50 something now.
When I work I code between 6 to 12 - maybe more - hours a day.
On my own time I like to read, go skiing, fly airplanes, hang out with friends, go dancing, take a trip somewhere.
It's called Life.
I am not my job.
----- In Your Cubicle No One Can Hear You Scream...
Hi Linus,
I'm having problems with sound on my laptop in Ubuntu. Is this something you can fix in the kernel or is it a problem with the distro? Please help.
Best Regards, AC
If i were you, i would work for FREE on your sparetime, what is what you are essentially doing
I do plenty of coding in my spare time that's NOT work. Like processing of my digital photos and videos for instance. Or a script to let me know when an item's price drops at Newegg. You seem to view ALL coding as work. I'm nearly 32 and I truly enjoy writing programs. I need to rest my eyes, hands, get exercise, etc. I enjoy time with my family and I enjoy playing sports, but I do not shun programming while not at "work".
There are facets of work life that are stressful and require "RELAXATION" time, but for me, coding is not one of them. I receive the same enjoyment and satisfaction from coding, whether it be at home or work. I have believed for some time and I maintain from my experience that the best craftsmen are those that truly enjoy the craft.
Always with the "my time is my time" self-absorbed types making it seem like the rest of us don't have lives. Well, I have a life. I am not a mutant !!
Not quite as annoying as the ones who seem to think that they are going to be paid for every waking hour. Newsflash. Free time has no monetary value. Hence the "free" part.
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
"If You're Good At Something, Never Do It For Free"
If we aren't supposed to code in our free time, then how do you expect anyone to write open source software and hold down a job?
so after RFA and wandering around his blog and twitter: this is the most insane, bigoted "i am so fucking right" wish-wash i have ever seen...
of interest is his overuse of 4chan memes... which makes me think it's just another kid wanting some limelight for nothing.
Why are we equating "doesn't want to do the same thing every waking moment of the day" with "hates his job?"
This guy sounds far too young and inexperienced to be making such pronouncements, but I fundamentally agree. Incessant coding is a sign that 1) you have no other interests and thus are lacking mental flexibility and 2) you are insecure about your own abilities and obsessively "hone" them with pointless exercises.
I absolutely LOVE programming. The reason I'm as good at is as I am is due to huddling in a darkened room teaching myself everything I could possibly get my hands on, over a period of about 15 years. Now I'm happy to have reached wizard level. What's great about this is that I'm good enough at what I do to make $100k, I get to work on ridiculously cool shit, and that nice salary gives me the freedom to do a lot of other things I ALSO enjoy.
I tend to view those who claim nonstop programming is necessary to demonstrate proficiency or dedication, as underdeveloped personalities who likely have social and professional shortcomings.
While it is true that most of the world's top programmers behaved like this at one point, it is certainly not a requirement that they act like that their entire lives.
It works pretty well. You are at the end usually surrounded by a couple of morons who do not understand what is on your screen anyways. While their youtube or "internet humor" emails obviously show their lack of interest an their profession, you will see no suspicion while you are busied in code and documentation. In case someone questions why you are working on a site that does not belong to the company you just tell that you did the site and you are looking at how you did something, which is beneficial to the company as you do not have to completely rewrite it or look at documentation and/or examples for hours. /sarcasm
If you want to make quality code you should not code for more than 6 hours and spend the rest learning something project related, documenting or trying something new that is interesting and might work (project related).
Of course there are times when you code for 2 weeks 12-14 hours, and it works in crunch time, but day-after-day it is just better to stick to shorter but more productive hours.
And yes, I code after work many times, but most of the time it is paid projects (no conflict of interest with my employer as I am a consultant there and respect intellectual property)..... but hey ... man has to pay for motorbikes, diving and other expensive crap
Did you check the mute button?
Ted writes (wrote) a semi-recurring column in the The Register that uses the word "fuck" a lot, has awkward metaphors that work hard to offend the easily-offended, and that's seems to be set up to troll-bait and build out the numbers on the comment forums. Nothing new since August, so apparently he is spending more time with his family.
WHO THE FUCK IS TED DZIUBA?
So what if he doesn't code in his free time? I don't watch sports in my free time. Who gives a damn about what I do in my spare time? Who gives a damn about what Ted does in his free time?
Next up "Angus McFinnigan doesn't play golf in his free time."
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
"Who?
Apparently, he's a big shot from YetAnotherDotCom. Why, I'll bet he's almost half as famous as the next random poseur.
-jcr" - by jcr (53032) on Sunday October 11, @04:51PM (#29713071)
Well, in defense of this guy Ted D. of the REGISTER (whom I have always considered a competitor to this site really, for tech news - imo, they're "up there" with an all-around tech + other news site online as a couple examples of the best thereof, mind you), if I understood his message (only read what I did here, not "TFA" yet) correctly? He has a couple things right I felt. I go into them below, but, first...? Hey:
Have you done more or better as far as computers in general even, let alone having what appears to be a successful website w/ a readership le like he does, or something along those lines yourself, I wonder??
Seriously. Not meaning to "bust" on you, I'd remember you're name, from if you had ever given me a hard time here (some people have, & facts do the job there), & I don't recall that so, this is not directly aimed @ you - it's to anyone that thinks that it's OK if they can rib on someone, even if they are not @ least be a peer of said person & that they ought to have thought about that first, before they busted on that person is all.
(AND, especially in what he is doing that is doing well from what I have heard & seen)...
Well, then you might be able to do that ribbing credibly, if you expect others to respect your opinion that is, because arguing without some totally reliable & verifiable results & numbers is a losing game to anyone that is reading & deciding what's what here, as a reader - especially if you don't have the same level of accomplishment as the person you are seemingly @ least, attacking/ribbing on/busting on here, etc..
I.E./E.G.-> The Register seems to do well, the person is making monies from it & that it's even being noted here. Especially since I feel they're comparable, & thus, competition to this site in fact. He's lucky & did his time on it, & now seemingly enjoys the fruits of said labors is all. I do respect that though, in anything.
See, because the 1st thing I'd truly, truly honestly probably wonder @, as a reader/listener first, @ least is, "Has he done better than this Ted person?" & especially if they seem to be busting on them. Then, I read more to find out, or ask questions like my subject line above is all. It's how I learn, & see who is doing the critiquing, learning more about they, to see if they are someone to listen to & take seriously.
Hey - If you're going to cut someone down, or try to, don't you or anyone else reading think that maybe the only way you can really ever earn that right (especially in readers' eyes of your statements), is to have done at least the same, or something in the same field @ least once, if not more noted accomplishments than the person you are busting on @ least??
I mean - THAT @ least, makes you a peer - one imo @ least, that is capable of doing so, with facts no less. Documented, verfiable facts, or code etc. et al.
(Hey - Barring that??? Well, but if you have done even 1 demonstrateable publicly documented/provable cool thing in this art & science (such as in trade rags or in programs you have online etc. et al (or more notable things I have not touched on in this field here) that'd earn you more respect when if/you bust on someone who seems to be doing well at what they're doing. That's just me though, in such a conflict, looking in no less, maybe not even commenting (which I have though, just felt like stating what I am thinking after reading your reply))
But, without having the same "street cred" as that person (especially in what he seems to be experiencing some success in on his part), yourself, & saying what you did????
Well... I'd ask you "Have you done anything better or equally good remotely in this science as this guy you're busting on h
The only thing i get from this is "My life sucks, I hate my job so much ill publicly state i don't code when i don't have to. Oh and here... a pelican eating a rabbit."
That grey monster devouring a sweet little bunny wabbit is a grey herron!
This despicable monster is a plague worse than the biblical locusts. Swarms of these screeching monsters peck at pets and small children, make an awful mess pulling anything edible out of the garbage containers, and cover the city with their immense splashes of their foul, abrasive excrement. You think pigeon poop is a problem? A herron poops puddles the size of a pigeon! Oh and the screeching! Have you ever heard one of these monsters sing? Inflate a balloon, then stretch the nozzle while you slowly deflate it. Imagine that sound getting married and having a child with the screeching of a dinosaur from a 1950's movie, that's what it sounds like.
The worst part is, you can't do a damn thing about them. You can't shoot them because burocrats in Brussels think these freaky miscreants are 'rare' and 'protected'. You know what, these feathered meat golems only seem rare, because they all seem to have flocked to these parts.
It's funny that I just took a break from working on some Haskell. I'm glad the summary mentioned Project Euler. Now I have something I can do with Haskell in my spare time. To each his own, I suppose.
Oh wait! I've spent over 7 years doing just that, IN MY SPARE TIME: http://www.tuxpaint.org/
Now, if someone would hire me to do it full-time, so I can keep putting food on my family [sic], I _might_ stop working on it in my spare time. (No guarantee, though.) I guess even more important is: who is this Ted person, and why do I give a crap? I've got literally millions of children to worry about. :^P
This guy was simply answering a posted question on reddit.com where some guy basically asked "would you hire someone who doesn't code in his/her spare time?" and then proceeded to answer his own question with "people who don't code in their spare time have no passion for their job, and I would ask that during an interview so I'd know whether I wanted to hire them or not" . This guy should have mentioned that part, but he didn't.
I take his position. I don't code in my free time either. Actually, I fucking hate programming. I happen to be pretty good at it, and that allows me to get paid a pretty good salary for it. But I don't like it. It's boring and monotonous, and if I could get paid the same amount for doing something that's easier for me to do, I'd do that. What I've found in my years as a Software Engineer (and this is true in many fields), that people tend to define themselves as their career. When asked "who are you?", many answer "Im X, and I'm a Software Engineer". I think it's short sighted. I am not what I do for a living. For me, it's just a job. I work so I can be who I am when I'm done working.
Though a bit unrelated to the subject matter.
Yeah that line of reasoning is also somewhat faulty when people argue about whether to buy something to save time. "Well I make $50/hour so if I take a helicopter instead of driving I pay $200 but save 5 hours so it's cheaper to fly" Sure it's perhaps more cost-efficient, but in the end you're still out more money.
When the time they're arguing about is not work time, the whole thing becomes even more dubious. "It's cheaper to go out for food every day, because if you factor in the time it takes to cook your own meal then cooking is more expensive". Then they spend their saved time doing nothing productive and wonder why they don't have any money.
To figure out the real meaning of "free" in "free time" look at non-English languages. Free time is translated as slobodno vrijeme into Croatian. That is, we again run head-first into the "free-as-in-freedom" stuff; expression "free time" originates not from "free-as-in-beer", but from "free-as-in-freedom".
I too refuse to work for any company that wouldn't hire me.
Said filename is enough for me to not take anything he has to say seriously.
whatever man, the view is good wherever you stand
..who have commented on this so far have been looking at Slashdot on a Sunday.
This guy sounds similar to myself. If the job is a 9-5 coding, I don't want to spend my free time coding. If my 9-5 is working on cars, I don't want to spend my free time working on cars. If my 9-5 is being a doctor, I don't want to spend my free time working in the clinic.
On the one hand, I totally get that. In fact, in college I seriously considered not becoming a programmer for a living, specifically because I didn't want to ruin my enjoyment of it...
On the other hand - I think there are certain advantages to making your work something that you naturally enjoy. It's like Scotty on the old Star Trek. There was that one episode where he got a day off and all he wanted to do was read technical journals related to his job... I can relate to that, too. I didn't start learning about computers so I could get a job as a programmer, I became a programmer because I enjoy computers and I enjoy solving problems. I became a programmer because I wanted to be a programmer - and found it convenient that I could make money with that skill.
Now as for whether you hire someone based on whether they program in their free time - I'd agree that seems a bit silly. I expect it could be helpful to see what sorts of things they've done (like the programmers' equivalent of a portfolio) but in the end, when it comes to a job, what counts is whether they can and will do the work. Damned if I know how you judge that, though. I'm just a programmer. :)
Bow-ties are cool.
Actually it does work like that but you have to calculate your continuous, rather than peak, earnings per hour. If you get paid $50/hr and you work 8 hours a day, you're only actually earning $16.70/hour. For it to be a genuine saving to take the helicopter, you'd have to save more than 12 extra hours in the 'copter on that $200 trip. There's a reason we fly rather than drive when we're travelling long distance.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Clean the wax out of your ears, you stinking hippy!
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
This is sheer douche baggery. My spare time is for family, working around the house, running, motorcycles, and other things.
Who would want to work for a hippocritcal pr**k like this.
Enjoy life. 50 hours a week at the job you will get enough experience.
Amazing number of attacks on who or what the author might be as opposed to what he has to say. Why do people feel a need to complain he's just a blogger or whatever? Do you have to be famous to have an opinion? Very strange.
I want a list of atrocities done in your name - Recoil
Actually it does work like that but you have to calculate your continuous, rather than peak, earnings per hour. If you get paid $50/hr and you work 8 hours a day, you're only actually earning $16.70/hour. For it to be a genuine saving to take the helicopter, you'd have to save more than 12 extra hours in the 'copter on that $200 trip. There's a reason we fly rather than drive when we're travelling long distance.
So if you take a day off work that is not a sick or holiday day, you still earn the same amount that week?
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
Erm, don't you? Every place I've worked (as a permanent employee, rather than a contractor), unscheduled days off come out of your accrued leave and your pay for the week is unaltered. If you run out of accrued leave and you're still taking random days off, then you're more likely to be fired for chronic absenteeism rather than just losing some pay.
Rampant carbon sequestration destroyed the Dinosaurs' tropical paradise. I'm here to help repair the damage.
Maybe you should consider that some posters here are Europeans.
Working more than 10 hours a day usually means losing your insurance for any kind of work-related accidents, so you are often strictly forbidden to do it no matter what (some companies pay for special insurance though).
It's also generally forbidden to work more than 50 hours a week.
I certainly don't expect to code regularly in their free time, but if they get enough free time to "have a live" at all (I guess quite a few Americans don't really by my idea of it) I'd expect that once a few years at least they will come over a personal problem where using one of their more polished skills (coding) is actually useful and they use it. And if it's only a shell script.
The whole sentence is an oxymoron.
I sparingly code in my spare time, but if someone requires me to do that kind of misses the whole point.
I'd recently given up on an otherwise very interesting job, just because they required me to complete an assignment - about two full days of coding, testing, etc (at the very least) on top of a 5 hours interview, even thought they were aware I'm already in a full-time job and that I might have some better things to do in the little bits of spare time that I have...
Some people become developers because they naturally gravitate towards the profession, they find coding fun and interesting - i.e. "I would dabble in this even if I wasn't being paid". One of the best things you can do with your life is do something you enjoy, and that's the whole point of asking a programmer in an interview if they have their own side projects - is this person one of those individuals who loves what they do? People who love what they do are *necessarily* the best in their fields, period. The author only fights against the truth of this because he does not enjoy what he does. He chafes at being compared to others, knows only disadvantage and loss because he should be doing something else.
In my experience (blah blah blah), those who don't do stuff outside of 9 to 5 aren't necessarily bad at what they do - but people who are bad at what they do don't stuff outside 9 to 5.
It shouldn't be expected, because that's stupid, but it should be a note in the margin.
Genesis 1:32 And God typed
Oh dear Lord, really? Look up "opportunity cost" and go from there.
It all goes down to what pleases you (it's *free* time, after all). I, for example, enjoy off-work programming a little bit, but I am very happy to *have programmed* off-work, that is, I love the results, the fact that I have lots of cool babies of my own (or in which I had a role), and I'm willing to spend the extra mile for that. Sue me, your mileage may vary anyway.
How does that relate to who I should hire, or who would hire me? Well, I guess the thing sorts itself out: each team will end up being built around the same types of programmers (off-time coders x non off-time coders, for example). In the medium term, the team "personality" is born, and hiring goes from that point, in my humble experience.
But I can't help noticing the author of the article is quite opinionated, and a few of his opinions cross the boundary between "funny" and "gross". "This Is America, Take Your Unicode Somewhere Else" is a title that shows how well he plays along with anyone that thinks or looks different, so take that in account when reading his blog.
There are over 400 comments to this story and yet nobody has sited Malcolm Gladwell and the theory that he popularized in Outliers. Essentially, the theory goes that to achieve true mastery at any given subject, regardless of whether that subject is violin playing, hockey, or, as in this case, computer programming, 10,000 hours of practice (purposeful actions to improve) are required.
Those programmers who have a passion for programming and do it in their spare time tend to be better programmers (and thus a better hiring target) because they have invested more time in practicing their skills. Those who have achieved their 10,000 earlier in their lives tend to be better than those who have achieved that later (or have never achieved it).
Given this, there are legitimate reasons for wanting to bring in people that have a lot more keyboard time than those who don't. Granted there may be exercises that can be done outside of programming that might contribute to programming but in the immortal words of Marvin Gaye, "Ain't nothing like the real thing."
Is that what they call new math? When I went to school, if someone got paid $50/hour and worked 8 hours a day, then they'd be making $400/day, because $50/hour x 8 hours/day = $400/day.
One-trick ponies confine themselves to a single problem space.
I have enough interests, skills, and hobbies that I do not need to sit on my ass getting swivel-chair spread doing the same thing I do for pay 8 hours a day. That shit is NOT healthy!
This weekend I spent nearly every waking hour doing creative work that involved being outdoors and breaking a sweat. I used a chainsaw, a tractor, and a six-foot crow at various times. When I wasn't outside I was teaching my brother-in-law how to rebuild an antique faucet set.
I'm 49, been writing code since I was 12, and I've worked professionally in more than 25 languages on a dozen or so operating systems. I turn down free-lance work dozens of times a year because I have a solid reputation and people seek me out. I'm in better health than any of the programmers my age I know that program in their spare time... oh, wait, that's because more than half of the people I started with are dead. A significant portion of them from complications of morbid obesity. Most of the rest from cancer... which might have something to do with spending all their time sitting still while chugging caffeinated crap, eh?
Don't spend more of your time coding than you spend getting out in the fresh air, and you'll be fine.
putting down your betters
My what?
It sounds like you're steeped in archaic notions of social class. Are you british?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Grow up jcr. Just because the ac asked a simple question and you can't answer it with proof you have done better than Ted Dzuiba at the register and yet you put Ted down, makes you look like a blowhard and fool, simply because you have not done better than He and yet you think you have the right to state that mess you did and probably modded yourself up for. You're not fooling anyone because your kind with no good accomplishments only pulls dirty tricks like that by using alternate logons to mod yourself up as jcr here from one of your other sockpuppet accounts of yourself. The ac is quite correct on his stating that before you give anyone a hard time, you should have at least some proof that you yourself have done as well or even better results on your part than those you criticize.
Erm, don't you? Every place I've worked (as a permanent employee, rather than a contractor), unscheduled days off come out of your accrued leave and your pay for the week is unaltered. If you run out of accrued leave and you're still taking random days off, then you're more likely to be fired for chronic absenteeism rather than just losing some pay.
ERM.. Way to avoid answering.
And since when has a single extra day off in exceptional circumstances been grounds for dismissal?
It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his job depends on not understanding it.
Quick tip: Run-on sentences are bad, m'kay?
you think you have the right to state that mess
Heh. I DO have the right to say whatever I care to. Your approval is not required: Doesn't that just make you want to scream, or cut yourself? Go cry, emo kid.
using alternate logons to mod yourself up as jcr here from one of your other sockpuppet accounts of yourself
Interesting scenario you've concocted there. I find it a bit hard to imagine caring enough about how my posts are moderated to go to that much trouble. My /. karma has been "excellent" for something over a decade now.
you should have at least some proof that you yourself have done as well or even better results on your part than those you criticize.
That's a rather ridiculous premise. Criticism is reserved to those who qualify according to your criteria? Ok, if we go on that basis, then as an AC, you're completely unqualified to criticize me, aren't you?
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
I used to like to code at home. Unfortunately I haven't coded a line of C++ in years - I used to dabble at home and at work was a release engineer maintaining builds, fixing bugs, writing installers, and so forth. I'm self-employed now. My partners and contractors do most of the coding, and I do mostly sysadmin work, network buildouts, and video surveillance and when I do work in software it's just maintaining subversion and writing functional specs. Being self-employed, I work long hours. It's system administration anywhere from 8 to 20 hours a day. All too often I'm logged in at 2:00am working on systems, or am at a client sit until then doing after-hour buildouts or upgrades.
Because of that when I am home I just want to chill - but friends, roommates, and congregation members hit me up for help with their computers, so I help them out. In my free time, I just want to relax and hang out with friends. I'm so overworked and tired I can't even be bothered to touch my synthesizers, let alone work on my blog or dabble on iPhone apps I have been writing specs for.
I want to get back into OOP but there is such a thing as burnout - and I've hit it. I'd LOVE to go back to working 9-5, earning a lot more money to do what I do best (release engineering, keeping QA and development communication and progress in sync, automating the build process, mentoring QA engineers, and avoiding getting asked to fill in director-level positions). If I were to go back to that I'd get a lot of immediate gratification and would be able to go back to coding in my spare time, and maybe start some F/OSS projects I've had in mind for a while. However my partners and I are vested in building something and making it this far through this economy is a tremendous accomplishment and I want to see it through to the end and hopefully reach the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. Is my life well-rounded right now? Aside from working long hours, I try to make it so.
Computer problems used to keep me up through the night: If I installed a bleeding-edge build of X or KDE and it broke, I used to stay up in front of the computer until I got it working. I used to work with MythTV until it worked (Myth is such an ugly app to set up by the way - it's a piece of crap, but wonderful once it is working). Now, I just want it to work. If it breaks, I'll work with it for a short while, then put it aside and log in from another computer at home, leaving it for the weekend. I'm too tired and too sick of dealing with sysadmin and customer support crap all day and night to care about my own computer having the latest and greatest on it, and am too tired and worn out to learn great projects like fog, amanda, and so on. I'd love to start programming some kde utilities but haven't the ambition, the time, or energy to do so. I long for the days when I can just leave work at work.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
When will /. support this important feature?
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
From the article it seems the Slashdot contributor has done a fantastic job sensationalizing the article It looks like Ted Dziuba is actually saying he has an active family life and is angry that this brands him as a non-performer at work. This is a common problem with programmers today: workaholism worship. It's perpetuated by the fact that the majority of the "best" programmers are the ones who find other avenues to express themselves out side of work. This is not a failing of the programmers ... it's a failing of the programmer's work-places and the worship of the workaholic ethos just perpetuates this terrible short-coming in many work places as if it were normal and to be expected.
The problem stems from the fact that as a programmer you are unlikely to get professional training on the job and your bosses are unlikely to know talent when it bites them on the neck. So you simply *must* do something like article writing (just as Ted Dziuba does) or open source contributions in order to keep fresh. The most insightful companies offer "10% time" or other open source incentives so you can show your work to the rest of the industry.
Imagine if an author could only sell his novel to a single reader. That's what a programmer has to deal with. How else should a programmer show what they can do? They must find another avenue through articles, journals, books, speaking, open source projects, ... whatever to show their career development. If you don't do that then the only path for you is the one your employer decides to give you. If you aren't lucky enough to get hired by an insightful employer then you've got either a dead end job or a path to middle management. It's not like Schmo IT department is going to need you to become a kernel hacker.
Ted Dziuba is just as bad as the "free time" coders he derides... Ted writes articles in his "free time" stealing just as much time from his family as I do writing articles and contributing code. So to that I say Ted is a bit of a hypocrite. But sadly, I fully agree with his sentiment. Tech work places need to change. They need to give talented programmers ways to express their talent and be recognized for it the way star sports players are recognized. It would revolutionize the industry and make better companies and better employees.
[signature]
Some companies think they can put huge demands on interview candidates because the job market is bad. And believe they can use this to filter out the inferior people and get the best people. But really, all the good people have jobs, and they don't want to put up with those little interview games.
A lot of places are passing over good people just because their interview process has gone haywire from their assumptions. At my work we have a tremendously difficult time hiring the good people we interview. It's to the point that I don't even go to the interviews anymore, and tell people to just do whatever they feel like. The process right now just wastes my time and wastes candidate's time. It's a phone screen + two 5 hour interviews, and they were going to add some sort of take home coding test on top of all that. Quite a few super developers have turned us down, and we even turned a few amazing people down because we can't figure out a process that tells us what we want to know. Nor can we agree on what we want to know when it comes to making a hiring decision.
My belief is you have a quick phone screen, and a well designed interview based on the candidates resume to vet them, maybe 4-5 hours if you need to talk to 5 or 6 people. And that's it. You hire them, and then if they can't do the job, let them go in a few months. Of course my company is also not able to fire people either.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Almost every business executive who works all week long at 45+ hours a week doesn't want to keep working on the weekend when they get home. They've learned the value of personal time in which you can do whatever you want that doesn't have to do with what you do for the majority of your life's time. I'm totally in agreement with this guy. Who in the hell would want to spend that many hours a week working their ass off coding just to finally get a few days to relax and do something else, ANYTHING else, only to end up doing the same thing. Spending 80 hours a week coding, in any capacity, is a road to all kinds of mental health problems. When the weekend comes (whatever the weekend may be for you), get the hell away from what you do all week and do something else. It will be good for you!
"Quick tip: Run-on sentences are bad, m'kay?" - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @11:56AM (#29719747)
Quick tip: This is not English class, nor a topic about English, nor is it the "english grammar section" of /. - you're "off-topic". ... "m'kay"?
By the way, care to show us your PHD in English you have?
(Without one to your credit, why on earth should anyone take you seriously here on "how to write according to jcr"?)
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"Heh. I DO have the right to say whatever I care to." - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @11:56AM (#29719747)
Likewise, & I can state the same. Not a good reply there since I can turn it around quite easily against you. Your debate skills don't even use good logic, nor do you construct a good argument even with that type of response, since it can be turned against you.
E.G.-> Just because I and others stated things you do not like you are indignant, albeit not righteously so. Thus, you resort to the "oldest troll trick in the book" of "I can't understand your writing" or other likewise off topic replies using "I am the English expert" as your defense, despite the fact this is not the English section of this forums, nor is it a topic about that.
(You have too much time on your hands, & instead of what others told you in telilng you to grow up? I say, "get a job", & quit putting down your betters (because until you've done as well as Ted D. of the register has? Well... you know pretty much what we think of you (i.e.-> We don't take you too seriously, because of your "armchair QB" status)).
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"Your approval is not required:" - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @11:56AM (#29719747)
Once more, poor logic in debate, because I can say the same to you... albeit, with a subtle difference:
Face it, others are not agreeing with what you're saying, & now, you're the one ranting & raving (like telling me "how to write" (show me proof of your PHD in English, I MIGHT listen (then again, I might not - it's like resumes: One "expert" (often self-titled) says it's bad, another says it's fine, & so on).
Others are merely telling you what they think of "armchair QB's" like yourself apparently (because you aren't able to show you have a site as successful as Ted D's @ the REGISTER).
By the rate of your rather "defensive replies" here? Well, it is fairly obvious you are not working or even going to school (and, yet you see fit to put down others whom you cannot even demonstrate you are a peer to).
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"Doesn't that just make you want to scream, or cut yourself? Go cry, emo kid." - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @11:56AM (#29719747)
Not really, I am not the one "tossing names" here, like some frustrated child (who when confronted with a simple question of "have you done equally well as Ted D. & the Register on YOUR part?", which you avoid to NO end, lol... "gee, I wonder why that is" (not)).
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"Interesting scenario you've concocted there. I find it a bit hard to imagine caring enough about how my posts are moderated to go to that much trouble. My /. karma has been "excellent" for something over a decade now." - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @11:56AM (#29719747)
Sure it is. Especially if you maintain alternate logon "sock puppet" accounts to mod yourself up with here.
(Fact is, I have caught others here admitting to it, after I flat busted them in it (last year))
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"That's a rather ridiculous premise. Criticism is reserved to those who qualify according to your criteria?" - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @11:56AM (#29719747)
Is it? I am a "Show Me" person. I demand proof is all. You obviously don't have it as to doing better than Ted D. @ the RE
"No, I just pick and choose who's worth responding to in depth." - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @11:46AM (#29719609)
No, I think you are running from the fact you criticized someone that's done visibly better than you have in this field, & when I asked if YOU personally had anything like his website (or other accomplishments related to this forums section's material? You had none & thus, avoid answering, again from embarassment on YOUR part).
That's all.
I mean, hey: Without a PHD in English to your credit on your part, & yet seeing you telling others how to write (or how much of a "website bigshot" Ted D is, & he is apparently (you are not though))?
You can't demonstrate any depth yourself!
(Especially on the topic @ hand: Computers (get it? This is NOT "english class" jcr, & those "troll tricks"?? They don't work because you are off topic from the start vs. myself with a weak comeback in attempting to tell myself or others how to write, minus a PHD in English to your credit no less).
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"Better luck next time." - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @11:46AM (#29719609)
Once more, per my other replies? Your rather weak "troll trick reply" here is "TOO EASY" to use 'reverse-psychology' on you with, just as it was in my other replies to you here jcr. So, per my subject line above??
You get that PHD in English? I might (maybe) pay you heed on writing, but you are off topic critiquing others' writing style without one AND this is again, not the "english grammar" section here on this forums, now is it?
No, it's not - you're off topic, period.
As you said to others here -> "Better luck next time... m'kay?"
APK
P.S.=> When you learn to READ (you're going to have to do that first)? Get back to us!
I say this, because IF you could read?? You'd realize this is NOT "the English Grammar section" of /., & you can stop modding yourself up via your "alternate logon sock puppets" too - that's too transparent, & mainly because of all the people disagreeing with you here, & others asked the same questions I have (what have YOU done personally that shows us you are expert @ this stuff + can offer solid critique of someone who can & does demonstrate success like Ted D can & has via THE REGISTER).
Plus, the karma & mods? Heh, it is obvious that IS what you're all about... especially since so many others disagreed with your means, & methods. apk
At the cost of sounding trite, it is. It's human nature to not want to do the same thing all the time, and once you've spent 40+ hours per week programming (well, minus all the office politics and other crap that gets mixed into the job), you may want to invest time in other hobbies too. I like to invest my time in other intellectual ventures and more physically active recreation. Also, I spend a good amount of time attacking the paradox of the social geek (the one who chats with the women he fancies). Does this mean I've never looked at a line of code or touched a compiler outside work? No, but it means I have other commitments, and I'd rather not degrade my life into a boring monomania.
On vit, on code et puis on meurt.
"BTW, how long have you been a paranoid? Got any insights about the kennedy assassination to share with us?" - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @01:35PM (#29721065)
See my subject-line above: Without a PHD in psych, + having performed a formal analysis of myself? That might actually be construable as libel towards myself.
(AND, perhaps most of all? I'd like to know where THAT little tidbit came from out of you... again, you're off topic, like usual (remember, this isn't the English grammar section here, it's a section on computing, & like usual for most trolls?? You're off topic + resorting to the same weak ad-hominem style attack, instead of answering questions put to you (like IF you have degrees in English, Psych, or CSC/CIS, or, IF you have a website that does as well as Ted D.'s "REGISTER").
Obviously, due to your avoidance of those questions of mine with you answering them? NO to each would be the answer - making you (how shall I put this nicely?), well, "less than credible" as a giver of critique to others (especially minus any degrees in the fields you rave on as your weak troll b.s. defenses and via your lack of any provable/visible accomplishments of your own in this art & science (computers, this section of this forums' topic in fact, not English, or Psych etc. et al which you resort rather weakly to)).
----
"I have exactly one /. account. I have no need for any others. - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @01:35PM (#29721065)
(SARCASM ->) "Sure jcr - 'WE BELIEVE YOU'", */or "YOU ARE THE SELF-PROCLAIMED EXPERT" that doesn't need to prove he knows what he is about & yet can criticize his obvious betters (like Ted. D of the REGISTER)...
Still, quit avoiding the questions I ask: Ones like 1.) Care to show us your proof of YOUR PHD's in Psych, English, or Computers (ala CSC or CIS, for example) or 2.) That you have a website that does as well as Ted D's in THE REGISTER?
No, obviously not on your part.
(AND, I strongly wager/predict that you'll avoid that as you have been... LMAO - Ahhh, "too easy", & I suppose "My ESP is on max setting today", & I wager my "prediction" is accurate, as it has been for how many replies to you now where you avoided 2-3 simple questions put your way??)
Lol... man - Like I always say, vs. ad-hominem trolls when I ask them for proofs & they avoid answering simple questions?
"TOO EASY"... too, too easy. Facts are like that, vs. trollish tricks & avoiding questions.
APK
P.S.=> Same old, same old (like usual from you) once more, & yet no PHD on your part in Computers, English, or now, the field of psychiatry either... all you have are your "ad hominem" attacks, & being off-topic (this isn't the English grammar section here, is it?). You keep avoiding answering simple questions like if you have PHD's in those sciences (clearly, you do not), and if you have done as well as Ted D. has (which clearly again, you have not). Not an impressive showing jcr. I.E.-> IF you're going to "talk the talk"?? WALK THE WALK (especially @ least a mile in the person you are busting on's shoes, AND, you had best have ended up in better shoes (pun intended) than they have, if you're going to bust someone up or try to... it aids in making YOU, believable/credible! apk
Im bias because im one of those that does code in my free time(my blog w/ code) but generally, in my opinion, programmers that code in their free time usually are better and faster than those who don’t. It has to do with the fact that if you’re programming in your free time you probably like programming and solving problems so you probably will, in general, have better grasp of the language and how to use it. So if you’re an employer looking for an employee wouldn’t you want the one that codes in their free time? It’s like free training every time they do extra code for themselves. Hell most of the time they are writing something to make their jobs easier so their work goes quicker / more smoothly so “you don’t code in your free time” they don’t want to hire you. Go find a job where they don’t care and go home and do nothing. Don’t clutter up my Slashdot reading
Maybe somebody already brough this up and I just missed the thread, but I work on software development evenings and weekends IN MY HEAD. I might be riding my bike, working in the yard, playing with my son, watching tv or just having dinner...but in the back of my mind, I'm thinking about the right way to solve a pogramming or software design issue, planning out a class hierarchy, imagining what utility functions I'll need, or worst-case, pondering the cause of a mysterious seg fault. By the time I get back into the office I've usually got a pretty solid plan worked out and I can just start coding.
"You know, there are treatments available today for obsessive/compulsive disorder. Consult a physician, you don't have to be this way.
-jcr - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @01:31PM (#29721001)
Yes, as I predicted ALL thru this thread in reply to you & in regards to YOU, specifically? Well: More "ad hominem" attacks from the "man with GOOD KARMA", jcr here (by his own admission/self-proclamation)
LOL - more like "self-administered" GOOD KARMA, via his alternate logons!
(Which would be SIMPLE TO DO, via alternate logon id/sock puppet accounts that come thru anonymous proxies, TOR onion routers, or just changing your IP & using GMAIL etc. et al).
See - because I have professionlly + formally academically (for going on 2 decades now) practiced this art & science, unlike yourself unless you prove otherwise, & especially before you critique others like Ted D. or myself (myself? I have done "fairly well @ it" - better than most, worse than others, & I can "get the job done" @ least, & have earned SOME right to comment, if not critique, albeit based on FACTS, not mere ad-hominem, & question avoidance b.s. "some folks" with "plastic good karma" (YOU) have)?
Well, I can offer critique & valid possibles as speculation directed your way, in defense of myself, vs. your adhominem attacks directed to myself & others (along with you avoiding answering simple questions I asked of you, like showing me PHD's on your part in English, Psych, or CSC/CIS even, since you critiqued others on ALL of those above, & in a name-tossing manner no less).
(No - See, You (& those like you) just can't fool me. Especially when you are frustrated into "ad hominem" name tossing attacks along with libel, instead of answering simple questions asked of you which you, lol, AVOID LIKE MAD! You're just not showing that "good karma" you were so "proud of" here... & you're offtopic on this section and thread as well, period, and you KNOW it... so do other readers!)
I am into this topic & know how ALL of that is done + I suspect you of it in fact.
Why? Well, simple:
I think you only get this 'great karma' of yours via such means, giving it to yourself via other logons you keep, & I say that, just based on your adhominem attacks of myself + others here today & yesterday, after all! I have good evidence of that, as well as you being BLATANTLY off topic.
(I.E.-> You're not showing "good karma" calling myself & others names, or insinuations of insult either, are you, or in your avoiding answering SIMPLE questions put your way here, are you? Nope...)
Besides, you ARE clearly "off topic" too (this is not the psych, or english grammar section here is it??).
Ahh... lol, "TOO EASY"!
See here, I don't have to waste any more of MY time re-writing my reply I did below (to which you still avoid answering SIMPLE questions, & everyone reading knows why, lol), & you once more resorting to a WEAK "ad hominem" attack like that on myself above now, & others directed my way + to others also (a libellous one no less imo is what you have stated about myself on the Psych related issues especially):
http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1400613&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=29721065#29721469
(I'd like to see proof of a PHD to your credit in Psych, & also in English + Comp. Sci., "Mr. Critic", or a website you run that does better than Ted D.'s "THE REGISTER"... "m'kay"? There, I closed it off with words you had said - to speak in a language you understand, because "When in ROME?" etc. et al...)
APK
P.S.=> Besides - I also (apparently, unlike you) have things to do that are accomplishing goals of mine today jcr, & obviously, you do not. Get a job, &
Haven't people always tried to separate Business and Pleasure. People who do a job like to use their free time to escape that job. It doesn't mean they hate that job or that don't like doing it...its just that after doing a 40+ hour week most people want to sit back, enjoy a sports game, or go fishing or something.
it is one thing if your a programmer who is fresh out of college and you still want to learn some new languages and new skills but when your a 30+ year old programming veteran with a family the last thing you would want to do or should do is be sitting there working on some pet project instead of being with your friends and families enjoying the little things.
That is the problem with this country vs. Europe. We don't know to enjoy the little things anymore. I mean as a programmer who is cooped up in a chair and a cubicle/office the last thing you should be doing is spending more time behind a computer. Go outside, read a book, and relax.
In fact it wouldn't be much of a venture to say that people who leave work at work and not take it home are probably more productive and happy. Wouldn't you want an employee who puts all their effort in at work and relaxes at home so they don't get burnt out. I think that employers who only hire people who do pet projects are quite simply delusional. Who cares what people do at home, that not your time, unless of course you want to pay them extra for it (which no one will).
"You're a nutcase. Get help.
-jcr" - by jcr (53032) on Monday October 12, @02:20PM (#29721893)
Not a lot to say now, eh, jcr? Just more of the "same old, same old" in name tossing ad-hominem off topic "effete retaliations" on your part once more, eh??
Yes, sure - you COULD say that to myself also!
HOWEVER - I only do so, & ask YOU the same questions, again & again, because YOU refuse to answer ANY of them (2-3 simple ones no less)... "Gee, we all wonder why?" (NOT, lol) - "Inquiring minds want to know", lol!
More libellous b.s. in ad-hominem attacks from you (minus a PHD in Psych for that, or a formal examination in order to produce your "prognosis/diagnosis" Mr. Sidewalk-Surgeon/Quack)
I mean, hey... Sorry, but, without those things? Well, apparently you only understand what you dish out, so I guess I will try that & give you some "reverse psychology" & direct the 'quack' comment YOUR way now... how's that? You like it, now that the shoe's on the other foot??? You obviously (as I said before here, pun intended) have not "walked a mile" in Ted D's shoes, or had his success, or you would have answered that quickly.
"IF YOU'RE GOING TO TALK THE TALK? WALK THE WALK...", jcr.
(Minus any PHD's in Psych, CIS/CSC etc., or English + doing nothing but name calling & ad-hominem attacks here on YOUR part, "Mr. Good Karma for a decade" here @ /.? Well, you're not doing either one from the quoted fairly famous turn of a phrase above...)
Well - you leave me no choice:
When "I am in Rome? I do as the Romans do" albeit, with questions "your kind" - plus, I speak in a language they understand reflecting its tone back... apparently, it is all you can understand.
(I call "your kind", the "not men online")
Why? Simply because you refuse to answer 2-3 simple questions, repeatedly & act as you do, "Mr. good karma", lol, the 'self-administered kind' you doubtless credited yourself with via alterate logon/sock puppet accounts you keep here (especially when you & THOSE LIKE YOU like to dish out critique to others doing demonstratably well in an area, but apparently, with you & THOSE LIKE YOU also having NOTdone the job themselves (let alone well + successfully), & can't prove that you or those like you have done the same themselves (as SOME folks, like Ted D., clearly can)).
Argue with success, good luck.
(It just doesn't look too good criticizing others on your part, w/out you at least provably having done the same as those you criticize, or better... & then that leaves you with your WEAK "ad-hominem" attacks as all you have afterwards (instead of professional hands on experience + degrees in the fields in question - let alone no success in them that is documented & demonstratable to YOUR credit also, jcr...)).
You need to work on your "trolling skills" boy - they're SO "dated", lol, & WEAK! As a great man named Abraham Lincoln once said "If you're going to do a thing, be good @ it", & clearly, epsecially @ that which YOU practice?? You're not good @ it.
PLUS, face it - You've lost your cool (evidenced quite cleanly (despite your 'self proclaimed' good karma (self administered type I suspect, based on your demeanor here now, sure doesn't seem like you have rightfully earned that) & your name tossing "foaming @ the mouth raging libellous replies" (lol) show that much, easily, plus you avoiding my 2-3 simple questions directed YOUR way)).
Bad move(s) all, on YOUR part...
(Especially the "off topic" replies of yours here, & you are offtopic (what is it you've said about this section's topic? Nothing - just critique from yourself, who is apparently NOT qualified in any way, shape, or form he can show that shows us you in fact, are qualified to dispense critique)... I mean, all you've done is name calling, critique on English grammar to others, plus libelling myself on Psych - however, perhaps most of all on CSC/CIS (compute
Triple negative:
And he wouldn't want to work for a company that doesn't hire those who don't code in their spare time.
Impressive!
I use to code in my free time but there is too little of it and too many things for me to do. If you wont hire me because of that then good I don't want to work for a rude dictator anyway :)
It's even more absurd than that. He said if you make $50/hr you really make $16.70/hour. Unless hr is a new metric of time that I am unfamiliar with rather than an abbreviation for hour, his statement is absolute gibberish.
~ I am logged on, therefore I am.
Reading first few lines of the blog, perhaps a "FOSS ageism" subject is in order?
"Dude, it doesn't take a medical degree to spot a nutcase, only to treat one. Get help.
-jcr" - by jcr (53032) on Tuesday October 13, @10:01PM (#29740153)
No, but it takes a license in psychiatry & a formal examination to evaluate someone else's mental state, & clearly, you possess neither.
(AND, thus? That'd make your statements libel towards msysef, as far as I am concerned - & that pal, makes YOU clearly the "nut" here, because you obviously do not respect the law either...)
APK
P.S.=> On getting help? Ok - Then I will get help then, for you, in some good advice: Before you cut down others on anything, @ least have done the job yourself or something very close to it, & then?? Then, maybe, then you can talk (let alone cut others down, when you haven't done a damned thing of note in this field/art & science, yourself... & when asked IF you have??? YOU RUN & AVOID IT, like NO TOMORROW - "Gee, wonder WHY that is?" (not))... apk
No, but it takes a license in psychiatry & a formal examination to evaluate someone else's mental state
No actually, it doesn't. Your hangup on credentials is clearly part of your problem.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
"No, but it takes a license in psychiatry & a formal examination to evaluate someone else's mental state
No actually, it doesn't. Your hangup on credentials is clearly part of your problem.
-jcr" - by jcr (53032) on Thursday October 15, @07:05PM (#29763897)
Says you: Now, care to show us that you are an attorney?
(You cut others down for doing well, like Ted D of "THE REGISTER", but you haven't done a site like his that does as well. You cut down others' writing here, and yet you possess no PHD in English. You called myself "nuts" & "crazy" etc. & yet you have no license to practice Psychiatry NOR have you performed the examination necessary upon myself to make such a prognosis/diagnosis.)
You "talk the talk", but you CERTAINLY don't "walk the walk", on any of the above, period.
APK
P.S.=> I'm not going to waste any more time on you tonite - I actually have things to do (whereas, you clearly do not). Also, on the note of "psychiatry" since you see fit to dispense that? Well, so can I - You clearly are "ocd" & have to "get the last word"...
So go ahead - I said ALL I had to in regard to you, all thru this thread, & in my last post in reply to you, here -> http://developers.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=1400613&threshold=-1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=29740153#29763351 & in all the posts before it also.
I simply asked you 2-4 questions, which you refused to answer each time, and you outright RAN from (lol, "gee, I wonder why?" (not)).
Good day... apk
"Nope. I declined to jump through the hoops you tossed up. If I had run, I wouldn't still be here poking your paranoid carcass." - by jcr (53032) on Thursday October 15, @10:00PM (#29765139)
Before you go criticizing others, OR as is your usual style apparently (despite your self-proclaimed "good karma": Doubtless "self-administered" like your mod ups are, via your alternate logon sock puppet TOR driven multiple accounts here again, no doubt, lol)?
I'd suggest you have done better than they have or at least as well, in the area you are criticizing them on. Especially in a technical area like computing where you have done so to Ted Dzuiba of "THE REGISTER".
"When have I ever claimed to be an attorney?" - by jcr (53032) on Thursday October 15, @10:00PM (#29765139)
It's obvious you are not, & are ignorant of "things legal" completely...
"You're in the running for a balsa gavel award yourself though, after that hilarious remark up thread about how you might be slandered (hint: what does the word "anonymous" mean?)" - by jcr (53032) on Thursday October 15, @10:00PM (#29765139)
Ahem - First of all, it's not slander technically (that's spoken), in this/your case... If it's written? It's libel.
Now, You going around and calling others "nuts" & "crazy?? It is exactly that: Libel!
(Most especially when you do not possess a degree in psychology, nor a license to practice it, and above all else, your not having performed a formal examination to make your "sidewalk surgeon/quack" snap "prognosis/diagnosis")
The same goes for your "critique" of others' writing style as well, minus a PHD in English to your credit/on your part too.
APK
P.S.=> "jcr: The 'self-titled expert', albeit, with no credentials (or noted accomplishments + years to decades of hands-on experience in said areas noted above) to his credit, on anything he criticizes others on"... apk