From the title it looked like this was a bad "in soviet Russia" joke...
Re:They've always had an ecosystem...
on
The MySpace Ecosystem
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· Score: 3, Insightful
The parent will probably get rated troll. However, it's 100% true. Myspace is complete and utter garbage. First of all, the site itself is horrible. In my experience it's fully operational less than 10% of the time. Then we get these stupid messages from "Tom", the face of myspace, "I know pictures aren't working right now. Don't send me emails, I'm working on it". There's always something wrong with it.
Then pretty much every moron goes to pimp my myspace and creates a page so broken it takes 5 minutes to load. I sure do like hearing 5 music videos and Dane Cook all playing at the same time. Then they plaster the comments with "Hey gurlie. l00kin sex-c" (and that's the most legible of the comments!). Myspace pages are pretty much unusable. They are actually worse than the geocities pages of the late 90's.
I think it's hilarious when I see parents on the news talking about the "myspace generation". "Oh yeah, my son has music playing while watching tv and IMing his friends and updating his myspace all at the same time". It makes them completely unfocused and makes it possible for them to half-ass ten things at once. I think myspace and AIM are possibly the two most influencial things dumbing down children in america today. I actually think that without these two things children in Amercia would be smarter. Would you want to leave that legacy? Dumbing down an entire generation...
It does make a difference. 44KHz would be ideal, but 16 is good. The original 8KHz is a carry over from the old telecom days. That's how much uncompressed voice data they could carry over a single copper line. So in essence voice quality really hasn't improved much on telephones since the 80's.
It would make understanding people who mumble, have poor english skills, lispers, etc, etc, significantly easier. 44KHz would be ideal, but 16 would be an improvement. I'm pretty sure however that many VoIP soft switches can do things like this anyway for internal calls. As long as the PSTN still has to cater to relic's from the 80's though nothing's going to really change (and it wouldn't be fair anyway because many poor countries can barely handle 8KHz as it is).
I've never understood why business people, management, basically any non-technical position is considered the top part of the totem pole. Put 4 engineers together and they are going to make something really interesting that just may better this planet. Put 4 businessmen together and they'll probably come up with a new cover sheet for a 3 letter report.
Reuters and other traditional news organizations are threatened by Wikipedia and news blogs. The original article just looked like an opportunity to take some shots at wikipedia and was pretty lame. They frankly seem scared. It just seems extremely odd for them to report such a non-event.
I think instead of attacking new forms of information delivery they should work on becoming a more credible news source. Mainstream media has become horrible in the past few years.
I don't think the market would fall apart completely, but I think the implecations would be bigger than that. Just think about all the people who've never administered anything but windows. Many of them have no clues about generic concepts as simple as DNS. They just understand how to work the tools MS provides for DNS. Home users are an easy switch because they don't do very much and generally have a 1:1 equivalent to another OS. However, there are dozens if not hundreds of tasks an admin has to do. How would those admins survive without any real knowledge of LDAP? HTTP? DNS? FTP? NFS? CIFS? SMTP? God forbid they have to get information from a man page or use a command line tool... Many would just drown.
Not only will they not pay, they still won't comply. Why do I think this? Because this is what happens every damn time! For once I'd like someone to grow some balls and follow through. I've yet to see a major announcement against Microsoft actually followed through with. Whether it be the EU, United States, Mass, Germany, and pretty much every other company or government make a declaration against Microsoft.
They will appeal it until their ears bleed. *sigh* I guess that's the way the world works. Big business doesn't have to pay EVER. Did you know Exxon still hasn't paid fines for the Exxon-Valdez?
The hardware of the late 1990's and early 2000's was the most closed windows dependant hardware I've ever seen. The integrated video hardware of today is way more compatible than of that time. Although many OEM's don't "support" Linux today, many at least test their hardware and attempt to run on linux (intel, adaptec, promise, atheros, ati, nvidia, amd, dell, hp, etc). Back then many OEM's had no clue about linux. A great deal of these computers probably have winmodems too so there's little chance of internet connectivity. Flakey soundcards too. Video, sound, and internet are pretty important to most home users. Old machines are good for web and mail servers because all they need is a usuable IDE controller and network card, but they make pretty crappy desktop machines.
It's a bad idea encouraging these people to use linux. They will probably fall flat on their face and have a bad impression of linux. They'd be better off buying a 1ghz mini itx box with linux preloaded for a few hundred dollars.
This one release isn't going to be a Windows killer. However, consistant high quality releases like this over the next few years will definatly make a huge impact. It won't happen all at once. We'll just step back in 5 years and say "wow, linux has 20% desktop market share. When did this happen?".
For competition purposes it would make perfect sense for them to do it just to be dicks. They could probably just pay this guy to wash cars in a tube top for all they care (that won't happen though because they treat their people right).
Google is genius. I think people may forget that sometimes. This guy leaving probably wouldn't affect MS products very much. I'm sure they'll replace him with a just as highly skilled person. However, it makes Microsoft look like fools. This is bad for public persona, consumer confidence, and stockholders. Whether it's true or not, in the public eye there looks like there's a mass exodus of employees from MS to Google. This is the type of sensationalism that tends to make CNN Money, CNBC, etc, etc. Google is extremely smart for understanding this.
I applaud google for kicking Microsoft in the groin where so many other companies have been unable to. Way to understand the media;)
On a side note... does anyone know the actual count of employees who left MS for google?
I'm running it right now and posting this within xen virtualization. Most of this stuff is stuff you could already do with Linux anyway. However, I'm highly impressed at the integration of it all. I think with SLES 10-Final I'll finally convert all our debian and cent os boxen to SLES. SLES 9 wasn't ever really anything impressive to me but I used it because we are a Novell shop (however I found myself installing other distros when SLES 9 was too painful).
I live in Florida. I've had 3 hurricanes in 2 years. And those fuckers at FPL STILL won't put in underground power. I've had a total of 7 weeks without power between those three storms. So that's gotta tell you something about cost.
Agreed. It's sad, but true. Very few stick to their guns on these issues. MS comes in with their welcome wagon and gives away so many deals they are actually being paid to use product x. Then it doesn't become about idealology anymore and more about free money. I wish it weren't this way, but it is.
Time and time again Microsoft doesn't use the right tool for the job. Why? Because it's about saving face. You have to make it appear Microsoft products are always the right tool for the job. It may not be true, but that's what you want the public to think. What's the public to think if you never use any of your own products? They are going to think they are garbage. The idea is that the sales gained by saving face will outnumber the costs in using the wrong tool. The use of a directly competing embedded OS is giving a public image that linux is so vastly superior for this purpose that Windows embedded isn't worth anyone's time. "Windows embedded is so bad Microsoft won't even use that crap". Get the idea?
A lot of you are missing the point. For most instances it's about saving money. But sometimes there are public appearance issues that are more important than immediate cost. By using a direct competitor's product, you are admitting your competiting product is not only inferior, but so vastly inferior that free licenses and free in-house support are still not enough to use it. This hurts sales of that product long term. Even if using your own stuff costs more now, you hope that saving face and eating your own dog food will result in sales that make up for it. Microsoft has no equivalent to Cisco's IOS. However, they have an embedded version of windows that is poised directly at linux. And the real news of this is that Microsoft has been so vapidly against linux. I mean they have fought dirty and mean and lied through their teeth. Now this product they have utter distain for is aparently vastly superior to one of their products? Kinda a big kick in the nuts if you ask me. They probably should have just stayed with Cisco and saved themselves the embarassment. It makes them look foolish.
Common sense, ethics, and the law are completely lost on these trashy people. I visit our PD sometimes (I work in municipal gov't), and there are actually people who believe if they paid 50 bucks for a stolen sidekick from a guy on a subway they should get their money back. At the same time, this girl was pregnant at 15 (maybe 14), writes like a bumbling idiot, and probably won't graduate high school. No, Evan doesn't need the law, this girl's real life has been punishment enough.
Our decesion to go with Suse has nothing to do with the quality or killer app of the OS. It's ok, nothing super special. However, we are a mostly netware shop. We got all our Suse licenses for free including support and didn't have to pay a penny more. I'm guessing other Novell shops are in a similiar situtation. This was REALLY smart of them, otherwise we'd probably have just gone with Debian. But it was just as expensive to go with Suse (free) and at least this way we get support on the off chance we need it. Also, a lot of propierty vendors support Suse and Redhat. Last, OES seems to just run on a regular SLES 9 install. Once we lose our Netware boxes to OES it will be nice just to have Suse Linux across the board (meaning consisant internal adminitration documentation for things like network configuration, printing, and other things that are the same for every server).
I've always said that! Wikipedia has to deal with the same dickhead trolls that slashdot does. Slashdot came up with a pretty damn good moderation system. I'm sure it would require tweaking for the first few months and wouldn't be perfect, but it definatly would stop the GNAA and goatse type trolls.
Side work is rarely worth it. Most of the time you are going to bust your ass, for what? A couple hundred extra bucks a month? Is that really worth two sets of work deadlines in your life? Side work obligations are usually hard to shed and once you make the decision to stop, you are looking at a good 6 more months of weaning people off.
Get a hobbiest project. Doesn't have to be OSS, just something cool you like to do. I spend time at work all day writing glue code and database reports. When I get home that's the _last_ thing I want to code. So I have a few hobby projects invoving gumstix and servos and other embedded type programming.
You hit the nail on the head. 1.5 should be made available for awhile and security bugs should be fixed. By the time 3.0 comes out, many of those machines are going to be approaching almost 10 years old. Do you really expect a computer you buy today to run new software while keeping the exact same OS? It's one thing to update all the software on 10 year old hardware. But it isn't realistic to think you can have a hybrid of a 10 year old OS with a modern day browser.
I can't believe this was never modded up and didn't get more mention. Gallery2 is freakin awesome! It does _exactly_ what he needs. It'll do pics and video extremely well. The author has put A LOT of work into it. There are few web based open source projects I've seen with this level of quality. I know 4 people with home servers using it and they love it. Never had a complaint. Install it. It takes like 5 minutes and you'll see. Our local West Palm Beach radio station uses it on their site and I've spotted it on a few other commercial sites.
I used to work in the VoIP business writing software a few years ago. There's A LOT of illegal activity that goes on. Much more than you think. Espically in wholesale. These guys do this stuff all the time. I guess the real story is that it happened in the US. Mostly it happens outside of the US. But trust me, it happens all the time. The shitty thing is, you have to pay for minutes you were ripped off. It's one of the few businesses that you can have stolen more than you have. If I have a warehouse ripped off, I am only out the equipment in that warehouse. With tollfraud, I can be out 300,000 dollars more than my whole business is worth.
It's bound to happen. A lot of these guys just buy a cheap-o softswitch and throw it in a noc. Some of them do their billing in MS Access.
Exactly. I think it's funny how so many people talk about how awful it is, yet it's being used as the default for a great deal of quality open source projects. Gallery2 anyone? I agree it has faults, but it's practical. If we listened to the languaged nazi's all anyone would ever program in is C and Java. Wah, wah, wah, Postgres is so much better. Java is so much better. X is so much better. Well than use it and quit complaining!!! If it's really that much better than it will start a revolution. Obviously it isn't. Language nazi's are so short sided. There are external factors they are too narrow minded to see.
What about available libraries? I love to program in ruby, but I have to pick my battles because there aren't a whole lot of mature libraries available yet.
What about availability? Almost all web hosts offer LAMP. Am I going to tell a client "I'm sorry, we are going to have to migrate your site to a new provider because I'm a zealot and don't like LAMP".
What about scalability (top and bottom)? It takes like 5 seconds to write an email form. Since most hosts are setup for LAMP all I'd have to do is give the file a.php extension and use the mail() function. Many people forget about the low end. Easy things should be easy, and hard things should be possible.
What about tools? There are a lot of editors out there with php built right in so you can execute code without running a webserver on your machine.
Docs anyone? php has a centralized site with tutorials and full documentation. Also, if you search message boards someone probably has come across your problem before.
All these are factors language zealots are too narrow minded to see. There are things more important than "Language X has sloppy OO. No one should ever use it ever".
I agree and disagree on a few points. REGISTER_GLOBALS was a sloppy idea that should have never happened. I also think that code should be able to be mixed with markup. I wrote a webapp 7 years ago in perl just using the print function for output. It wasn't fun. It was way more complex than it should have beeen, even with the html templating system I wrote.
That aside... magic quotes are VERY important. I hated them when I first started, but the web would be a shittier place without them. Google for login.asp and try to put some chars like '"; into the login box. I'd say at least 15% (probably way more, that's very consertive) will fail. Most will be vulnerable to sql injection. It doesn't make up for bad programming, but bad programmers are going to exist regardless. At least the PHP folks are practical and understand this.
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From the title it looked like this was a bad "in soviet Russia" joke...
The parent will probably get rated troll. However, it's 100% true. Myspace is complete and utter garbage. First of all, the site itself is horrible. In my experience it's fully operational less than 10% of the time. Then we get these stupid messages from "Tom", the face of myspace, "I know pictures aren't working right now. Don't send me emails, I'm working on it". There's always something wrong with it.
Then pretty much every moron goes to pimp my myspace and creates a page so broken it takes 5 minutes to load. I sure do like hearing 5 music videos and Dane Cook all playing at the same time. Then they plaster the comments with "Hey gurlie. l00kin sex-c" (and that's the most legible of the comments!). Myspace pages are pretty much unusable. They are actually worse than the geocities pages of the late 90's.
I think it's hilarious when I see parents on the news talking about the "myspace generation". "Oh yeah, my son has music playing while watching tv and IMing his friends and updating his myspace all at the same time". It makes them completely unfocused and makes it possible for them to half-ass ten things at once. I think myspace and AIM are possibly the two most influencial things dumbing down children in america today. I actually think that without these two things children in Amercia would be smarter. Would you want to leave that legacy? Dumbing down an entire generation...
It does make a difference. 44KHz would be ideal, but 16 is good. The original 8KHz is a carry over from the old telecom days. That's how much uncompressed voice data they could carry over a single copper line. So in essence voice quality really hasn't improved much on telephones since the 80's.
It would make understanding people who mumble, have poor english skills, lispers, etc, etc, significantly easier. 44KHz would be ideal, but 16 would be an improvement. I'm pretty sure however that many VoIP soft switches can do things like this anyway for internal calls. As long as the PSTN still has to cater to relic's from the 80's though nothing's going to really change (and it wouldn't be fair anyway because many poor countries can barely handle 8KHz as it is).
I've never understood why business people, management, basically any non-technical position is considered the top part of the totem pole. Put 4 engineers together and they are going to make something really interesting that just may better this planet. Put 4 businessmen together and they'll probably come up with a new cover sheet for a 3 letter report.
Reuters and other traditional news organizations are threatened by Wikipedia and news blogs. The original article just looked like an opportunity to take some shots at wikipedia and was pretty lame. They frankly seem scared. It just seems extremely odd for them to report such a non-event.
I think instead of attacking new forms of information delivery they should work on becoming a more credible news source. Mainstream media has become horrible in the past few years.
I don't think the market would fall apart completely, but I think the implecations would be bigger than that. Just think about all the people who've never administered anything but windows. Many of them have no clues about generic concepts as simple as DNS. They just understand how to work the tools MS provides for DNS. Home users are an easy switch because they don't do very much and generally have a 1:1 equivalent to another OS. However, there are dozens if not hundreds of tasks an admin has to do. How would those admins survive without any real knowledge of LDAP? HTTP? DNS? FTP? NFS? CIFS? SMTP? God forbid they have to get information from a man page or use a command line tool... Many would just drown.
Not only will they not pay, they still won't comply. Why do I think this? Because this is what happens every damn time! For once I'd like someone to grow some balls and follow through. I've yet to see a major announcement against Microsoft actually followed through with. Whether it be the EU, United States, Mass, Germany, and pretty much every other company or government make a declaration against Microsoft.
They will appeal it until their ears bleed. *sigh* I guess that's the way the world works. Big business doesn't have to pay EVER. Did you know Exxon still hasn't paid fines for the Exxon-Valdez?
The hardware of the late 1990's and early 2000's was the most closed windows dependant hardware I've ever seen. The integrated video hardware of today is way more compatible than of that time. Although many OEM's don't "support" Linux today, many at least test their hardware and attempt to run on linux (intel, adaptec, promise, atheros, ati, nvidia, amd, dell, hp, etc). Back then many OEM's had no clue about linux. A great deal of these computers probably have winmodems too so there's little chance of internet connectivity. Flakey soundcards too. Video, sound, and internet are pretty important to most home users. Old machines are good for web and mail servers because all they need is a usuable IDE controller and network card, but they make pretty crappy desktop machines.
It's a bad idea encouraging these people to use linux. They will probably fall flat on their face and have a bad impression of linux. They'd be better off buying a 1ghz mini itx box with linux preloaded for a few hundred dollars.
This one release isn't going to be a Windows killer. However, consistant high quality releases like this over the next few years will definatly make a huge impact. It won't happen all at once. We'll just step back in 5 years and say "wow, linux has 20% desktop market share. When did this happen?".
For competition purposes it would make perfect sense for them to do it just to be dicks. They could probably just pay this guy to wash cars in a tube top for all they care (that won't happen though because they treat their people right).
;)
Google is genius. I think people may forget that sometimes. This guy leaving probably wouldn't affect MS products very much. I'm sure they'll replace him with a just as highly skilled person. However, it makes Microsoft look like fools. This is bad for public persona, consumer confidence, and stockholders. Whether it's true or not, in the public eye there looks like there's a mass exodus of employees from MS to Google. This is the type of sensationalism that tends to make CNN Money, CNBC, etc, etc. Google is extremely smart for understanding this.
I applaud google for kicking Microsoft in the groin where so many other companies have been unable to. Way to understand the media
On a side note... does anyone know the actual count of employees who left MS for google?
I'm running it right now and posting this within xen virtualization. Most of this stuff is stuff you could already do with Linux anyway. However, I'm highly impressed at the integration of it all. I think with SLES 10-Final I'll finally convert all our debian and cent os boxen to SLES. SLES 9 wasn't ever really anything impressive to me but I used it because we are a Novell shop (however I found myself installing other distros when SLES 9 was too painful).
I live in Florida. I've had 3 hurricanes in 2 years. And those fuckers at FPL STILL won't put in underground power. I've had a total of 7 weeks without power between those three storms. So that's gotta tell you something about cost.
Agreed. It's sad, but true. Very few stick to their guns on these issues. MS comes in with their welcome wagon and gives away so many deals they are actually being paid to use product x. Then it doesn't become about idealology anymore and more about free money. I wish it weren't this way, but it is.
I can count at least 10 times I've seen this post in fedora threads (including bad grammer).
Time and time again Microsoft doesn't use the right tool for the job. Why? Because it's about saving face. You have to make it appear Microsoft products are always the right tool for the job. It may not be true, but that's what you want the public to think. What's the public to think if you never use any of your own products? They are going to think they are garbage. The idea is that the sales gained by saving face will outnumber the costs in using the wrong tool. The use of a directly competing embedded OS is giving a public image that linux is so vastly superior for this purpose that Windows embedded isn't worth anyone's time. "Windows embedded is so bad Microsoft won't even use that crap". Get the idea?
A lot of you are missing the point. For most instances it's about saving money. But sometimes there are public appearance issues that are more important than immediate cost. By using a direct competitor's product, you are admitting your competiting product is not only inferior, but so vastly inferior that free licenses and free in-house support are still not enough to use it. This hurts sales of that product long term. Even if using your own stuff costs more now, you hope that saving face and eating your own dog food will result in sales that make up for it. Microsoft has no equivalent to Cisco's IOS. However, they have an embedded version of windows that is poised directly at linux. And the real news of this is that Microsoft has been so vapidly against linux. I mean they have fought dirty and mean and lied through their teeth. Now this product they have utter distain for is aparently vastly superior to one of their products? Kinda a big kick in the nuts if you ask me. They probably should have just stayed with Cisco and saved themselves the embarassment. It makes them look foolish.
Common sense, ethics, and the law are completely lost on these trashy people. I visit our PD sometimes (I work in municipal gov't), and there are actually people who believe if they paid 50 bucks for a stolen sidekick from a guy on a subway they should get their money back. At the same time, this girl was pregnant at 15 (maybe 14), writes like a bumbling idiot, and probably won't graduate high school. No, Evan doesn't need the law, this girl's real life has been punishment enough.
Our decesion to go with Suse has nothing to do with the quality or killer app of the OS. It's ok, nothing super special. However, we are a mostly netware shop. We got all our Suse licenses for free including support and didn't have to pay a penny more. I'm guessing other Novell shops are in a similiar situtation. This was REALLY smart of them, otherwise we'd probably have just gone with Debian. But it was just as expensive to go with Suse (free) and at least this way we get support on the off chance we need it. Also, a lot of propierty vendors support Suse and Redhat. Last, OES seems to just run on a regular SLES 9 install. Once we lose our Netware boxes to OES it will be nice just to have Suse Linux across the board (meaning consisant internal adminitration documentation for things like network configuration, printing, and other things that are the same for every server).
I've always said that! Wikipedia has to deal with the same dickhead trolls that slashdot does. Slashdot came up with a pretty damn good moderation system. I'm sure it would require tweaking for the first few months and wouldn't be perfect, but it definatly would stop the GNAA and goatse type trolls.
Side work is rarely worth it. Most of the time you are going to bust your ass, for what? A couple hundred extra bucks a month? Is that really worth two sets of work deadlines in your life? Side work obligations are usually hard to shed and once you make the decision to stop, you are looking at a good 6 more months of weaning people off.
Get a hobbiest project. Doesn't have to be OSS, just something cool you like to do. I spend time at work all day writing glue code and database reports. When I get home that's the _last_ thing I want to code. So I have a few hobby projects invoving gumstix and servos and other embedded type programming.
You hit the nail on the head. 1.5 should be made available for awhile and security bugs should be fixed. By the time 3.0 comes out, many of those machines are going to be approaching almost 10 years old. Do you really expect a computer you buy today to run new software while keeping the exact same OS? It's one thing to update all the software on 10 year old hardware. But it isn't realistic to think you can have a hybrid of a 10 year old OS with a modern day browser.
I can't believe this was never modded up and didn't get more mention. Gallery2 is freakin awesome! It does _exactly_ what he needs. It'll do pics and video extremely well. The author has put A LOT of work into it. There are few web based open source projects I've seen with this level of quality. I know 4 people with home servers using it and they love it. Never had a complaint. Install it. It takes like 5 minutes and you'll see. Our local West Palm Beach radio station uses it on their site and I've spotted it on a few other commercial sites.
I used to work in the VoIP business writing software a few years ago. There's A LOT of illegal activity that goes on. Much more than you think. Espically in wholesale. These guys do this stuff all the time. I guess the real story is that it happened in the US. Mostly it happens outside of the US. But trust me, it happens all the time. The shitty thing is, you have to pay for minutes you were ripped off. It's one of the few businesses that you can have stolen more than you have. If I have a warehouse ripped off, I am only out the equipment in that warehouse. With tollfraud, I can be out 300,000 dollars more than my whole business is worth.
It's bound to happen. A lot of these guys just buy a cheap-o softswitch and throw it in a noc. Some of them do their billing in MS Access.
Exactly. I think it's funny how so many people talk about how awful it is, yet it's being used as the default for a great deal of quality open source projects. Gallery2 anyone? I agree it has faults, but it's practical. If we listened to the languaged nazi's all anyone would ever program in is C and Java. Wah, wah, wah, Postgres is so much better. Java is so much better. X is so much better. Well than use it and quit complaining!!! If it's really that much better than it will start a revolution. Obviously it isn't. Language nazi's are so short sided. There are external factors they are too narrow minded to see.
.php extension and use the mail() function. Many people forget about the low end. Easy things should be easy, and hard things should be possible.
What about available libraries? I love to program in ruby, but I have to pick my battles because there aren't a whole lot of mature libraries available yet.
What about availability? Almost all web hosts offer LAMP. Am I going to tell a client "I'm sorry, we are going to have to migrate your site to a new provider because I'm a zealot and don't like LAMP".
What about scalability (top and bottom)? It takes like 5 seconds to write an email form. Since most hosts are setup for LAMP all I'd have to do is give the file a
What about tools? There are a lot of editors out there with php built right in so you can execute code without running a webserver on your machine.
Docs anyone? php has a centralized site with tutorials and full documentation. Also, if you search message boards someone probably has come across your problem before.
All these are factors language zealots are too narrow minded to see. There are things more important than "Language X has sloppy OO. No one should ever use it ever".
I agree and disagree on a few points. REGISTER_GLOBALS was a sloppy idea that should have never happened. I also think that code should be able to be mixed with markup. I wrote a webapp 7 years ago in perl just using the print function for output. It wasn't fun. It was way more complex than it should have beeen, even with the html templating system I wrote.
That aside... magic quotes are VERY important. I hated them when I first started, but the web would be a shittier place without them. Google for login.asp and try to put some chars like '"; into the login box. I'd say at least 15% (probably way more, that's very consertive) will fail. Most will be vulnerable to sql injection. It doesn't make up for bad programming, but bad programmers are going to exist regardless. At least the PHP folks are practical and understand this.