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IT Careers in 2010 - Learn a business

feminazi writes "Business knowledge and domain specific skills are becoming more important to IT workers, according to Computerworld's special report on IT careers in 2010. The most sought-after corporate IT workers in 2010 may not have deep-seated technical skills at all. Traci A. Logan, vice president of information technology and vice provost for academic affairs at Bentley College in Waltham, Mass. says, 'That [business skill set] is going to be more important than the straight technical skills they know, because you're going to see a closer marriage between the business and IT.'"

170 comments

  1. Yea! by rbannon · · Score: 2, Insightful

    That's always been the case. Business skills, especially salesmanship is what's most important.

    1. Re:Yea! by MikeFM · · Score: 1

      A strong set of business and a strong set of technical skills combined is what will make you successful in my experience. Being able to deliver a strong product and keep customers, coworkers, investors, etc all happy isn't easy at all but it can really pay off.

      --
      At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
    2. Re:Yea! by alshithead · · Score: 1

      Knowledge of business theory and its practical application will outweigh salesmanship. The ability to apply IT in order to increase profits is what businesses will look for and what they are already looking for. This isn't really anything new. IT folks who understand how to better the bottom line are the ones who really succeed. I'm not a programmer but programming is a great example. A programmer who understands business is much better able to supply IT tools that help businesses thrive. I can sell just about anything to anyone ONCE. If it doesn't suit the needs of the powers that be it will be the last sale I make to them. Along the same lines, I can sell myself well enough to get the job but if I don't produce results, I'm not likely to keep it.

      --
      I reserve the right to think for myself. Others' opinions are optional. Puppy on lap = typos...not illiteracy.
    3. Re:Yea! by NeepyNoo · · Score: 1

      Wow! Bentley. A 2nd rate business school commenting on the IT/Business marriage. How insightful.

    4. Re:Yea! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nick: Why, you must have told a whopper to unload that deathtrap.
            Gil: H-what'd you use Marge, the old buff-n-bluff, the hail murry, the
                      sasqua head of shuffle, huh, huh? [click click] Huh? [click click]
                      Huh? [laughs nervously]
        Marge: No, no tricks! It was salesmanship, that's all!
      Lionel: Sure, Marge, "salesmanship".
        Marge: But it was!
      Lionel: Sure, Marge, "was".
      -- "Realty Bites"

    5. Re:Yea! by pbrammer · · Score: 1

      This idea is what we typically call "Business Analysts." They are the liason between the business and IT. Nothing new here with this report.

    6. Re:Yea! by E1v!$ · · Score: 1

      Your sarcasm is beautiful.

    7. Re:Yea! by sgt_doom · · Score: 1

      Frankly, the most sought after tech types in 2010 will be in China, India, Russia, Vietnam, and so on. I follow the numbers and can do the math. Also, this goes against the grain of hiring at places like M$, that have popularized the idea of primarily hiring fresh college grads....

  2. Nothing new by CastrTroy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    This has always been true. This is why you can't just replace coders. Even though there's lots of coders out there, having someone who understands your business on a higher level will help you create a much better product. You can't just high someone who's been doing financial software for 10 years to go write a game. Maybe it would be nice if companies started realizing this, and didn't just bring in contractors to do everything, who have no idea about the business, or the business's real needs.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    1. Re:Nothing new by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wow...alright your argument is ok, but did you mean hire insteand of "high"? quite an odd mixup

  3. Hey, I got a question... by hazah · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Who will be solving the technical problems?

    1. Re:Hey, I got a question... by packeteer · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The businessmen with a technical background, thats who.

      --
      unzip; strip; touch; finger; mount; fsck; more; yes; unmount; sleep
    2. Re:Hey, I got a question... by Umbral+Blot · · Score: 5, Insightful

      That's like assuming that business men with a mathematical background will prove that P = NP. It's not going to happen, because some problems are so hard that it requires a full time devotion to the subject in order to simply to understand them, and an exceptionally bright mind to make progress. Technical work is like this, it requires a full time devotion to stay on top of technology and to master it. Solutions created by people who think of themselves primarily as business men will be atrociously bad (even worse than normal), and businesses that rely on such people will quickly go under.

    3. Re:Hey, I got a question... by hazah · · Score: 1

      Just to add to the first reply... do the words "Dot Com Bubble" mean anything to you?

    4. Re:Hey, I got a question... by e2d2 · · Score: 1

      But remember, when they say "business knowledge" what they really mean is domain knowledge. This can be anything, for instance the inner workings of a particular sector like finances, government, aerospace, health, etc. So a developer can branch his or her knowledge out to this and gain an advantage. It's better to have more tools at your disposal, domain knowledge is just another tool.

    5. Re:Hey, I got a question... by radtea · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Technical work is like this, it requires a full time devotion to stay on top of technology and to master it. Solutions created by people who think of themselves primarily as business men will be atrociously bad (even worse than normal), and businesses that rely on such people will quickly go under.

      You are vastly over-rating the time and effort involved in running a business. If you are technically good, and have invested in acquiring a basic set of business skills, then running a business is no big deal if you're talking about a single person consultancy.

      The things you need:

      1) Basic accounting (and I mean VERY basic--my accountant does all the hard stuff. And besides, most of advanced accounting is learning ways to lie with numbers while still remaining a respected if not respectable member of the community. The least honest developer I know once voiced a desire to become an accountant, and I can well understand why.)

      2) Basic business law, especially contract law (lawyers are a lot more expensive than accountants, but the cost of failure is also higher. Tread carefully.)

      3) Presentation skills. Stay away from all the bullshit seminar stuff. Join your local community theatre group.

      4) Reputation. Every business contact you have, ever professional contact, is marketing. Every arm's length interaction you have is marketing for your future business. Businesses don't start in a vacuum and they are essentially based on relationships of trust based on reputation. Build yours carefully and it will be your greatest asset when you strike out on your own.

      It just isn't that hard to be in business for yourself. There is a certain level of complexity you have to deal with, and a lot of discipline required to deal with it (I update my books religiously ever Friday morning, for example--keeping on top of the paperwork is vital.) But 90% of my time is spent on purely technical work. I just get to keep 100% of the profit from that, instead of paying most of it to support an ignorant manager with a big ego.

      It took me five years to move from academia to being in busines for myself. Every career move I made within that time was aimed at getting me closer to the goal. I took jobs so I could learn particular business skills or get a closer look at how a small business is run. Anyone with a brain can do this, and acquire sufficient business skills to run their own show. It just isn't that hard.

      --
      Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
    6. Re:Hey, I got a question... by Asic+Eng · · Score: 1
      I agree - the question is not whether the future will need more people with business skills to do technical work. The question is - once this mindset is established how will anything get done?

      "the most effective workforce will be outward-focused, business-driven competency centers"

      People have been spouting that sort of gibberish for a long time - until now big companies have managed to survive despite that, however if it becomes even more widespread than now, they are going to take those companies down.

      "They might be competency centers formed around mergers and acquisitions,"

      Same thing on that one - mergers and acquisitions are unproductive work. It's stuff people do, because they don't know anything about running their companies, so instead they focus on activities they understand. These activities contribute zero to the economy, though - they are just expensive overhead.

      Another myth is this idea that you could somehow escape outsourcing by acquiring a business skill set. That's nonsense, if I can outsource skill set A, I can also outsource skill set B. Once I've outsourced all the engineering jobs to India, and put the infrastructure there, managing these engineers can also be done in India.

    7. Re:Hey, I got a question... by pedalman · · Score: 1
      Who will be solving the technical problems?
      Why, the world's smartest garbageman, of course.
      --
      Friends don't let friends line-dance.
  4. Do they just make this up as they go? by walterbyrd · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Look at the job boards. Employers are looking for the right mixture of product specialized knowledge. Usually that want a combination of about six different products, and it's different for every position: one may want cisco, solaris, citrix, windows, oracle, veritas. The next may want: windows, redhat, ms-sql server, perl, php, html, css. And so on.

    I always get the idea that the "authorities" who right these articles don't have a clue about the real world.

    1. Re:Do they just make this up as they go? by tb3 · · Score: 1

      No kidding. Just click on my sig for some horrible examples. And they keep getting worse.

      --

      www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance

    2. Re:Do they just make this up as they go? by rolfwind · · Score: 1

      They write it that way so they can pschologically hammer you down in salary if you don't have all the skills. And they don't want you to have all the skills listed.

    3. Re:Do they just make this up as they go? by MKalus · · Score: 1
      I always get the idea that the "authorities" who right these articles don't have a clue about the real world.


      And I have the feeling that you don't know how most businesses work: They tend to use more than one technology and of course their IDEAL candidate possess all the technology knowledge, heck, that's whey they want to hire you.

      It doesn't matter at the end of the day that you don't, because the guy who is interviewing you hopefully realizes that very few people have ALL the skills.
      --
      If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
  5. So... by Duhavid · · Score: 4, Funny

    You mean that business will stop treating IT
    like janitorial staff? Start acting on the ideas
    that IT brings to the table?

    --
    emt 377 emt 4
    1. Re:So... by nighty5 · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't work like that.

      The business requires the support of IT to push their *business objectives*. Its nothing to do with technology.

      So many IT people fail to see that the reason their is an IT department is to support the needs of the business.

      IT is just a vehicle to delivering faster, and more effective business drivers.

    2. Re:So... by beavis88 · · Score: 1

      Bwahahahahahahahaha

      *gasp*

      *wheeze*

      ahahahahahahaha

      *choke*

      Thanks, I needed a laugh!

    3. Re:So... by Duhavid · · Score: 2, Interesting

      You are exactly right, except I would say that
      it is business that fails to see that the reason
      for the IT department is to support the needs
      of the business. My admittedly anecdotal view
      is that most "business" types just expect IT
      to keep the machines running, and dont come to
      IT and say "we want to do 'X'" or "can we do
      'Y' more efficiently", or "what can we do next
      to improve how IT can support the business".
      In fact, advice from IT seems to be rejected
      with a "it will cost too much".

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    4. Re:So... by freemywrld · · Score: 1

      This is especially true as more and more aspects of business become directly tied to technology. As e-commerce continues to grow, along with using things like electronic inventory tracking, etc. the need to understand both business and technology continues to rise. And this doesn't just mean that IT folks need to know more business, it's that business folks need to understand IT better as well.
      While this isn't a completely new concept, it definitely is something that is beginning to matter more than in recent history. With business and IT integrated, it moves business forward into new models that actually work WITH the technology, as opposed to having unrealistic expectations.

    5. Re:So... by dustwun · · Score: 1

      That this was modded as funny instead of insightful or something else is kind of a sad testament to what we do.
      I keep telling myself it's not really like that, that I don't live the real life version of dilbert.
      I keep being proven wrong in new and ultimately spirit-crushing ways. /hands off my stapler.

    6. Re:So... by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      Funny is better than troll or redundant
      or one of the other "i dont agree with you"
      moderation possiblities.

      Good luck finding a non-Dilbert job. ;-)

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    7. Re:So... by conlaw · · Score: 0

      No, IT is just like the Legal Department. When they really want "answers" they'll bring in some outside consultant who will charge them an amount equal to your yearly salary for spending two weeks "studying the issues" so they can tell the management honchos just what you've been telling them for ages. Remember, "a prophet is without honor in his own country."

    8. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you have to insult janitorial staff by comparing them to IT?

    9. Re:So... by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      It is part of my implemented feature set.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    10. Re:So... by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      I think you just reinforced my point... :-)

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
    11. Re:So... by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      If you learn the business skills, sales skills
      and the business perspective/language, you
      can then "sell" your advice to management
      much more effectively. The last 3 people in
      my current position failed to do that. Same
      position vacated 3 times in 12 months. I am
      having a much easier time than they did,
      because I translate my suggestions into
      profit/loss, sales volume and how they affect
      the KPI that the people I am trying to convince
      get judged on.

    12. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really short
      lines are
      actually quite
      hard
      to read.

      Ease up on
      the return key for
      your next message
      please. Let
      the wrapping
      happen
      automatically

      Thank
      you.

    13. Re:So... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      What about business process reengineering?

      It sounds to me alot of IT folks dont know how to sell themselves. It shows if your organization thinks it only supports. I have seen posts here where IT reports to HR rather than implement plans like MRP and ERP systems that can really make a difference to cut costs and bring information to employees.

      A good intranet site linked to a database with suppliers or a customized accounting app is alot more value than Excel and some as/400 terminal app for employees to search for information. This has been forgetton as soon as the y2k bug ended and cost cutting began. Many organizations dont want to invest in their own companies due to short term profit constraints to satisfy wall street.

      But IT is support + a whole lot more. Maybe some business anaylists with IT backgrounds at your organization might be something you may consider?

    14. Re:So... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean that business will stop treating IT
      like janitorial staff?


      IT is janitorial staff. Or it will be as soon as we export their jobs.

    15. Re:So... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      You mean that business will stop treating IT
      like janitorial staff?


      Yip, now we get to make coffee also.

    16. Re:So... by Duhavid · · Score: 1

      Funny, that brings back a moment from the past...

      I had a crew of 2 kinda working for me. One person
      was in early in the morning, he did not drink coffee.

      I think you see where this is going....

      Anyway, one of the big wigs at this company decided
      it would be nice if he could get the coffee going
      when he got in, so that they would not be bothered
      with such things.

      Fortunately, I was able to go to my boss and get this
      stopped, since he was not a coffee drinker, and had
      other things to do...

      Other tidbit. From this crew of three, we were expected
      to maintain 5 day a week, 24 hours a day coverage.

      --
      emt 377 emt 4
  6. BS Bingo Anyone? by rowama · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Sorry, but I bingo'd before page 3 and had to stop reading.

    Bottom line is diversify your portfolio of skills. Pick one or more of the math, engineering, financial, public speaking, etc. skills and you will have a better chance in the future.

  7. Not consistant with my observations by amightywind · · Score: 5, Insightful
    IT and business unit employees will work more closely together -- and in some cases, interchangeably.

    This runs completely counter to the outsourcing and cost focus of todays businesses. Indeed even people hired "permanantly" are usually seen as expendable at the end of major projects. These are the ones with the most domain knowledge. Business types tend to be "visionaries" and whip crackers. Rarely do the excel at requirements or planning. I have worked for major corporations since 1990 and I see the gulf between management and software professionals growing widerthan ever with the increasing sophistication of tools and the increasing complexity of projects. Engineering culture has all but disappeared.

    --
    an ill wind that blows no good
    1. Re:Not consistant with my observations by MKalus · · Score: 1
      I have worked for major corporations since 1990 and I see the gulf between management and software professionals growing widerthan ever with the increasing sophistication of tools and the increasing complexity of projects. Engineering culture has all but disappeared.


      This is where a good Architect (if you like or hate that designation) comes into play. S/He would be the person who bridges that divide. A "jack of all trades". In essence you have to know the bullshit from the real stuff and understand what is required to make business work without necessarily know all the details.

      What will happen is that jobs will splitter even more, with people getting more specialized in specific areas, which will in part take creativity out of the jobs.
      --
      If you want to e-mail me, use my PGP Key.
  8. Flipside by mgkimsal2 · · Score: 4, Informative

    The flip side of contractors not knowing anything about a business is companies with internal software developers who don't know how to develop. I've been on both sides of the fence, and there's no simple answer to the issue of corporate software development. I can tell you that I've worked in some places where the existing software was put together so poorly that it was little more than a deck of cards waiting to fall. "But it addresses the business needs!" is a valid point, to be sure, but when small enhancement requests which should take a day start taking >1 week solely because the original software was put together so poorly, you've got bigger problems than whether someone understands the unique business needs or not. The first core business need is that the software needs to be available and known to be functioning properly - you need to have confidence in it. Without skilled developers with a track record of proven success, that trust is harder to come by.

    The best middle ground is to have hybrid people - people who have thought and can think from both sides of the aisle, so to speak. When contractors are brought in, if there's no one who can explain the business requirements at *any* level (and I've been in some places like that over the years), it's not the outside contractor's fault.

    1. Re:Flipside by gutbunny · · Score: 1

      I wonder if the one who wrote this article is reading this discussion....

  9. 2010? Bad year to choose. by krell · · Score: 3, Funny

    Can't get the idea of Roy Scheider using an Apple //GS (the true technology of the future!) out of my head, along with the damn spinning sand-covered pacman spaceship. Arthur C. Clarke surely would have been rolling in his grave over THAT movie if the damn old coot had died long ago like the other scifi grand masters.

    --
    Where were you when the voynix came?
    1. Re:2010? Bad year to choose. by mswope · · Score: 1

      Sorry - it was an Apple IIc. I worked on those and probably have a poster with Roy sitting on the beach doing AppleWorks or something. :-)

      Okay - now back to our regularly scheduled rant...

  10. How many? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    Geez - these IT career planning stories are getting tiresome.

    You want to make money? Quit beating around the bush and
    just go to law school!

    1. Re:How many? by TheBracket · · Score: 1

      Amusingly enough, I finished my law degree and went into IT... and I'm still not rich. You may be onto something! On the other hand, "do what you love" has definite merits.

      --
      Lead developer, http://wisptools.net
  11. A nation of managers by 0racle · · Score: 2, Insightful

    ... where all the actual work is done by immigrants or off-shored because no one local knows how to do it anymore.

    --
    "I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
    1. Re:A nation of managers by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      ... where all the actual work is done by immigrants or off-shored because no one local knows how to do it anymore.

      That seems to be our comparative advantage, for good or bad.

    2. Re:A nation of managers by TrippTDF · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Hear Hear!

      I'm the IT manager for a small advertising company. I was hired as the company was just starting, and built a small network of Macs and PCs. As I was being hired, we also got an outsourced IT company. I'm a person that tends to do things himself, and then ask for help only after I have given it my best shot... otherwise, how the fuck do I learn anything?

      However, we are a company of managers, and I find that I get praised for doing a good job when I call the outsourced company to deal with an issue than if I did it myself. Their time is about 8 times as expensive as mine, and referring to them can cost a small fortune, but the Powers the Be are more happy to see me managing others than doing something myself...

  12. Until push comes to shove. by khasim · · Score: 2, Funny

    Sure, what's "most important" is being able to sell. Particularly when the corporate network was just cracked and you have to explain to the CEO why all the clients have been looking at "j00 b33n pwN3d" on your website all morning.

    Technical skills? Not so important.

    That's "sarcasm" for those of you unable to see it.

    Being a good salesman can get you in the door and on the project. But nothing will help if you don't have the tech skills to deliver.

    Particularly as more and more of the business is being put on the 'web. The best people will have the tech skills and the business knowledge and the salesmanship skills. But the tech skills are the most important.

    1. Re:Until push comes to shove. by rohan972 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I think the point being made is that business/sales skills are more important for your career not for the business. As long as the technical skills are available to keep the tech going, sales etc. will put you at a higher level in the business than tech skills. I agree though, I would hate to be a good businessman trying to sell broken products, or products made on a broken production line.

      Business skills being more important doesn't make tech skills non-essential.

    2. Re:Until push comes to shove. by NewbieProgrammerMan · · Score: 1
      But the tech skills are the most important.
      When you find a company that recognizes this and compensates the technical people accordingly, please let us all know.
      --
      [b.belong('us') for b in bases if b.owner() == 'you']
    3. Re:Until push comes to shove. by diersing · · Score: 1

      Yes, this just in. The business does recognize this and will be compensating their outsource Indian partners handsomely whilst pocketing the difference of your bloated 'techy' salary ~ afterall, the kids need Beamers too.

    4. Re:Until push comes to shove. by ThreeE · · Score: 0

      Seriously, why is this a bad idea? As a shareholder, I expect the management team to provide as much return as they can on my investment. Why should I say "except labor costs -- go ahead and blow my money there."

    5. Re:Until push comes to shove. by AuMatar · · Score: 1

      Depends on what you want for your career. Personally, I'd quit before taking a management job. So no, buisness skills are not necessary and do not help.

      --
      I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
    6. Re:Until push comes to shove. by hazah · · Score: 1
      Because you're not solving the problem, you're merely delaying it. A person who cannot understand the problem will probably not be able to solve it. It doesn't matter whether it's in NA, EU, or India.

      The irony is that your attitude is what's actually blowing your money. This lack of foresight is exactly why money gets blown away in the first place (read: maintanance costs).

    7. Re:Until push comes to shove. by Ranger96 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not about taking a management job. In corporate IT, it's all about understanding the business you are supporting. If you are a great coder but have zero understanding or interest in the business processes your systems support, you are not near as valuable to the company as the average coder who can successfully translate business requirements into a technical implementation. Or, as is more likely, translate those business requirements into a comprehensive technical spec that can be handed off to the contractors performing the actual coding.

      Coding is skilled labor that the company prefers to acquire as needed on a contract basis. The 'professional' job is the business analyst, technical analyst, and architect.

      --
      What has been will be again, what has been done will be done again; there is nothing new under the sun.-Ecclesiastes 1:9
    8. Re:Until push comes to shove. by ThreeE · · Score: 0

      The offshoe techies understand the problem quite well. Respectfully, I believe it is you that do not understand asset efficiency.

    9. Re:Until push comes to shove. by big-giant-head · · Score: 1

      Geez the trolls are out

      --

      So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.
    10. Re:Until push comes to shove. by Retric · · Score: 1

      I hate to brake it to you but communication tends to be the most important problem on most projects.

      Short example: A friend designed a complex toy the fairly exact specifications but kept getting back "We can't build this" from the Chinese haul of the company. After 8 faxes and several phone calls it was discovered that they needed a to extend the base 1/4 of an inch to fit all the components. Now the original specification was ~1 inch base but either ~1 does not stretch to 1 and 1/4th or someone dropped the ~.

      Knowing which aspects of the specification are flexible is vital when designing any complex system. Trying to get someone to build from a fixed spec without understanding the problem is stupid. Yet, off shoring development crates a huge separation between those you understand what needs to get done and those who implement a solution. Anyone who does not see this a huge problem is a fool.

    11. Re:Until push comes to shove. by ThreeE · · Score: 0

      If you have to be collocated to be effective, you'll never work on anything of any size, complexity, or significance. Several industries have mastered 24x7 design, development, test, and production.

      Someday you might too -- if not, you will be in the bread line.

    12. Re:Until push comes to shove. by dickens · · Score: 1

      Absolutely... Wish I had mod points tonight.

      Know what's important to the bottom line for your employer and adjust your priorities accordingly. This is especially important in smaller outfits.

      I'm working for a manufacturer outside the "technology" sector for the first time in my life now. I'm learning as much as I can about every aspect of the business.. from production and distribution to customer service. What else can I do to increase my value to them? They're already getting the full benefit of my technical expertise and experience.

    13. Re:Until push comes to shove. by RingDev · · Score: 1

      So true. I've been working in business software development for about 8 years now. Over the last 4 I've been working in lots of custom in-house leasing, loan, and accounting applications. Having a solid grasp of the development tools and being able to build a solid framework is important, but it doesn't help the company. Being able to communicate clearly with the accounting department, or understanding lease accounting, implicit rate calculations, and the whole litany of terms that your users live by, that is what is going to make the development smooth.

      You want to get hired onto a major software development firm? Get a BS in comp sci, or IT w/ a CS focus, and become a CPA. Its no easy task to achieve, but it'll lead to rock solid employment opportunities.

      -Rick

      --
      "Most people in the U.S. wouldn't know they live in a tyrannical state if it walked up and grabbed their junk." - MyFirs
    14. Re:Until push comes to shove. by SirSlud · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I agree you with, and grandparent, except with one caveat; learning advertising helped me in my previous job of writing advertising delivery and reporting software. (No, it wasn't straight spamming, it was legit.)

      I'm still left wondering if that was worth it because I feel so dirty to be able to make marketing employees and managers drool when I 'talk the talk'. Probably an easier croud to please than most, but I do agree with you; learning what customers were looking for when they ran campaigns and contracts with us was really valuable to my career when you're called to talk to the client on the phone to explain 'technical' things.

      I'm working in the games industry now, and recently we had a client who was upset that our game didn't run on some integrated videocards they really wanted to support. One of the newer programmers in the room told the client, basically, that those videocards were shitty and underpowered. Which was true, but thats not what the client wants to hear. Thats the lesson you learn from 'knowing' the industry you work in; you don't talk to a client like you'd talk to your boss.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    15. Re:Until push comes to shove. by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      I hate to brake it to you but communication tends to be the most important problem on most projects.

      Now that's irony right there.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    16. Re:Until push comes to shove. by rohan972 · · Score: 1

      If you don't have some understanding of business, you can't communicate nearly as effectively with management, who decide what resources you have, and what you will be working on.

      Without some understanding of business, you tech skills are worth little more than a hobby, unless you have someone above you in the chain of command with both tech and management skills.

      Have you ever tried to explain even low level tech to someone who had decided they didn't want to learn it, even though they needed to (like it was a part of their job, email etc)? They quickly become a burden, no matter how skilled they are in other areas. Well, most of us work in *fanfare* businesses! If you wont learn the basics of business at least, you become a burden.

      Management and tech staff are supposed to both be working for the profitability of the business (Remember profits, the origin of paycheques). To work together, you need to communicate. To communicate at least one of the groups needs to understand both the language and thought process of the other group. If you make that person who knows be you, it benefits your career, even if you are not headed for management.

    17. Re:Until push comes to shove. by ThreeE · · Score: 0
      Short example: A friend designed a complex toy the fairly exact specifications but kept getting back "We can't build this" from the Chinese haul of the company. After 8 faxes and several phone calls it was discovered that they needed a to extend the base 1/4 of an inch to fit all the components. Now the original specification was ~1 inch base but either ~1 does not stretch to 1 and 1/4th or someone dropped the ~.

      You know, this is a good example of bad communication. Bravo.

    18. Re:Until push comes to shove. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Several industries have mastered 24x7 design, development, test, and production.

      Yeah. It's called unpaid overtime and emergency 2AM meetings.

    19. Re:Until push comes to shove. by ThreeE · · Score: 0

      If you don't like it - quit. I'm sure there are all kinds of places that will hire your unique and valuable skillset...

      Anyone that complains about unpaid overtime doesn't understand what it means to be a salaried employee.

    20. Re:Until push comes to shove. by Tekzel · · Score: 1

      Exactly. To be a salaried employee is so the business in question can use you as much as they want without paying extra, but the moment you want to take some extra time off they will hit you with a sledgehammer. Basically it is a loophole through labor laws that benefits the business, not the worker.

    21. Re:Until push comes to shove. by ThreeE · · Score: 0

      To be salaried employee is to select your employer more carefully. It's called a labor market -- if you are that good, you can go somewhere else where they don't hit you with a sledgehammer.

    22. Re:Until push comes to shove. by Retric · · Score: 1

      There is a huge difference between "effective" and "efficient".

      2000 people working for 10 years might develop software that "works" but 30 people working for 6 years might solve the same problem. I have solved problems in hours that someone else spent weeks on. Both of us where effective, but that says nothing about being cost effective.

  13. Learn a business? by TrappedByMyself · · Score: 2, Funny

    What the hell does that mean?

    I think we need to start with: "Learn how to communicate"

    --

    Help me take back Slashdot. When did 'News for Nerds' become 'FUD and Conspiracy Theories for Extremist Nutjobs'?
    1. Re:Learn a business? by djk29a · · Score: 1

      Does raiding BWL in World of Warcraft with Ventrillo count under communication skills on a resume?

  14. Offshore by jours · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Anyone who's worked with offshore resources knows this is exaclty true. A couple of years ago I was contracted at a large 401k company when they brought in massive amounts of Indian labor. They were bright, spoke English well, and did passable work...but they didn't know a thing about retirement accounts or any other American financial practices. I was far, far more valuable working with them as a business analyst then I was as a coder. Yeah, those of us Americans who are left in IT in 2010 are going to have to know the businesses very well.

    --
    This sig intentionally left blank.
  15. Hopeless by rowama · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm hopeless and should quit IT. When I read your last sentence ...

    IT is just a vehicle to delivering faster, and more effective business drivers.

    I visualized IT as a minivan delivering the likes of Tony Stewart, Jeff Gordon, Little E, etc. to their retirement assignments: Driving business executives around.

    It's bedtime kiddies.

    1. Re:Hopeless by nighty5 · · Score: 1

      I guess one could read it like that :)

      Night night!

  16. IT != R&D any more. IT = Production by tyrr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    There was a time when IT was a part of R&D and it's gone. A natural cycle of every technology kicks in. During emerging stages a technology is a research. After a technology comes out of the woodwork and mass-adoption starts, a technology becomes a production.
    There is no magic in computer development any more. Adoption and demand are so high, people literally code for food. Take a look at your ten year old coding his website and think how many people could do that fifteen years ago.
    The fact that there are so many companies nowadays in 3rd world counties (no offence meant) who act as major players in outsourcing means we are far beyond research and development stage in IT.
    We did not need business people to manage IT when it was R&D simply because any R&D requires tremendous dedication and you can't do both research and business.
    A production can and has to be managed. Business skills mean more than research capabilities in production. Why approach the problem with your mind if you can approach it with your pocket book and do not pay an arm and a lag?
    I'm not worried a single bit about IT researchers. They are very bright, hard working and will be able to adapt. One year in an MBA programs is all they need.

    1. Re:IT != R&D any more. IT = Production by hazah · · Score: 1

      Are you really trying to say that the developement of a system, which inherently is research & developement, by the mere fact of how it is achieved, is not research & development?

      I'm going to go out on a limb here and say you haven't done any serious programming work in your lifetime. That's too bad, because if you had any experience in that field, you'd quickly realise that throwing money at a programming problem only works if there's someone that can actually solve it. Without that, you can throw money at it for as long as your pockets have something in them, and you'd still be stuck with a programming problem. Here's why, someone needs to do research and analysis, and then develop a solution.

      Sigh, unfortunately you sound like my boss, which is enough of a disclaimer in itself.

  17. Purely management-esque article by Servo · · Score: 2, Interesting

    The person writing the article is clearly seeing this from a managerial point of view, and not as someone who actually understands the technical side of IT. What I read between the lines was that the expectation is that FTE's will be more business and vendor/project management oriented while the pure IT skills will be contractors or PS engagements with vendors.

    As someone who's seen this first hand, I don't think the author has hit the mark at all. Instead of shifting high level responsibility on day to day IT folk, they would be better to invest in key architects and engineers who can bring all of the existing reponsibilities together. These positions require leadership and long term planning/project management. These types of folks will replace the VP of IT types that write these articles, not the specialized IT skillsets that we have today.

    --
    A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
    1. Re:Purely management-esque article by Daniel+Dvorkin · · Score: 1

      These types of folks will replace the VP of IT types that write these articles, not the specialized IT skillsets that we have today.

      Which is why articles like this keep getting written and read, of course. Most of management's time is spent justifying its own existence.

      --
      The correlation between ignorance of statistics and using "correlation is not causation" as an argument is close to 1.
  18. Rather than become a jack of all trades by rolfwind · · Score: 1
    From TFA:
    The most sought-after corporate IT workers in 2010 may be those with no deep-seated technical skills at all. The nuts-and-bolts programming and easy-to-document support jobs will have all gone to third-party providers in the U.S. or abroad. Instead, IT departments will be populated with "versatilists" -- those with a technology background who also know the business sector inside and out, can architect and carry out IT plans that will add business value, and can cultivate relationships both inside and outside the company.


    I think the article is anticipating administrating software and software systems will become easier over time. Probably.

    But I would rather trade to something more technical, but close to CompSci, like Electrical Engineering, if I were in school. Or get more into Computer Science, but really get into the math aspect. Engineers and their types will always be needed.

    I know several MBA graduates that are having problems getting jobs right now for over $12.00 an hour because of the glut (in their area) and I don't believe becoming a jack-of-all-trades (versatile as the argument puts it) will lead to anything but lower wayes.

    Knowing the business, as the article says, should be good for anyone in any position - if not to help the business, then just to see how stable your position is in it.
    1. Re:Rather than become a jack of all trades by AWhistler · · Score: 1

      There are job titles for the jack-of-all-trades type...Professional Services, Consultant, System Integrator, and informal titles such as guru, subject matter expert, generalist, visionary. These people tend to know much about many things, and know how to research what they don't know. They aren't afraid to say they don't know something, and to roll up their sleeves and get dirty reconfiguring the guts of machinery.

      It's been my experience that there is a need for someone like that, and they get paid enough...not the highest, but definitely not the lowest either. Now, if one of these guru's gets an MBA too, AND they learn how to integrate the two fields, then they REALLY have something.

  19. Pointy haired IT workers? by Mordenkainen · · Score: 1

    to go with the pointy haired boss?

  20. legacy skills eh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    from TFA page 4

    Cold
    Legacy skills

    really.. I should abandon my legacy skills eh? how about my obsolete skills? or my useless skills? will they still be hot in 2010?

  21. Anyone can pilot the ship in calm weather. by khasim · · Score: 1
    I think the point being made is that business/sales skills are more important for your career not for the business. As long as the technical skills are available to keep the tech going, sales etc. will put you at a higher level in the business than tech skills.

    The flaw in that approach is that it depends upon nothing going wrong that you cannot blame on someone else.

    Which is not to say that you won't get lucky and succeed with that approach. Just that it is a flawed approach.

    And that is the essence of "tech viewpoint" vs "business viewpoint".
    1. Re:Anyone can pilot the ship in calm weather. by rohan972 · · Score: 4, Insightful
      I think you missed this part of my post:
      Business skills being more important doesn't make tech skills non-essential.

      And that is the essence of "tech viewpoint" vs "business viewpoint".

      May I dare to suggest that you develop tech skills and business skills? I am not employed in management, and don't intend to be, but understanding some of the skills/viewpoints of management allows me to:
      1. Better understand the priorities of management (you know, those guys that sign the cheques?)

      2. Be more skilled at promoting my ideas to management (the stuff alot of workers find really difficult, but is really valuable to the company)

      3. Deal with customer issues more succesfully (for some reason our customers are more concerned with being profitable than with being assured by me that our product is within the ordered specification. This sometimes involves coming up with solutions that require some knowledge of business)
  22. Google is your friend. by khasim · · Score: 1
    When you find a company that recognizes this and compensates the technical people accordingly, please let us all know.

    Just ask the people working for Google. In fact, just look for any of the companies that the tech people are trying to get into.
  23. Contractors by castoridae · · Score: 1

    Ideally, the company wouldn't just bring in "generic" contractors, but would select firms (or groups within large contract houses) that specialize in that company's specific industry & market. Sure there's some learning curve to the specifics of that company, but that experience not only helps narrow the gap, but it brings insights of what others in the industry do and different points of view that a company insider may not have.

  24. TRANSLATION by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    TRANSLATION TO IT WORKERS:

    I can't UNDERSTAND our H1B slaves.

    I need a middleman who'll be willing to work for entry-level IT wages, but do essentially all my management work for me, keeping my servants on task and getting the job done, meanwhile able to speak to me in plain MidWestern English and occasionally pick up my dry-cleaning.

    That will be all.

    1. Re:TRANSLATION by MilesNaismith · · Score: 1

      Oh yeah, forgot to add:

      Successful employees will also be flexible with working hours, as some of our sub-contractors are in differing countries around the globe. So we expect you to communicate with them during the work-day in India or China or wherever.

      We don't actually want to make you a quasi-manager because then we'd have to raise your salary, give you shorter working hours, and pay expenses for 3-martini lunches and golf games. No, no, you don't get to join the club we just want you to CARRY our clubs.

      (BTW, this is supposed to be humor. Forgot to login first time too.)

  25. I am sick and tired of this... by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...bullshit I keep hearing for over a decade now. Ths most sought after people will still be those that understand what they are doing. I am really fed up with management types tryinf to convince the world, that IT people are actually sort-of failed managers. The real reason is that the managers have an inferiority comples, since they do know that they can never, ever, under any circumstances replace an IT specialist. Too much air, greed and selfishness in their heads. On the other hand many managers are so bad at their job, that most IT people would do at least as well.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Ok, I'll bite.

      I'll looking for a job right now. I've got a great skill set, and over 10 years experience. I'm a senior position on the staff, worked on many projects over $100,000. I have a technical background that includes Windows Desktop and Server, Routers (WAN and Layer 3), hardware including cabling, ability to interface with vendors and deal with complex issues and get them resolved in short order. I have primarily worked with the Operations department so I've got a good business background and understanding. Senior Managment has supported me (even over my direct Manager). I've had my resume reviewed by managers, and CEOs of small companies I know (outside of work) and they say it's good.

      In 6 months I've had 2 phone interviews. The second of which was the closest, and two days later came the call.... "we found someone else". I've been applying to about 2-3 positions a week. The only thing I can figure is that I don't have a "Certification", although I've been previously certified in several diverse subjects.

      If "Being Technical" and "Knowing Business" are the key then _where are the jobs_? Seems all the jobs and recruiters are looking for are temporary "consultants" to solve a "temporary" problem (or fit a round hole in a square peg).

    2. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by Tony · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I have a technical background that includes Windows Desktop and Server, Routers (WAN and Layer 3), hardware including cabling, ability to interface with vendors and deal with complex issues and get them resolved in short order.

      You and everybody else.

      The first half of this sentence includes facts. The second half includes valuations. Pretty much any admin has experience with MS-Windows (desktop and server), and most have dealt with their share of routers and L3 switches. I'd wager most of those have also had to run their share of cable. Most of us know which end of the bit to use in a punch-down tool.

      The rest of it, the ability to "deal with complex issues. . ." well, hell, everybody claims those sorts of abilities. I'd even throw in "ability to communicate effectively," too. Oh, and don't forget to put in, "works well in both group and independent situations as the need arises."

      A good resume hasn't worked well since the collapse a few years ago. Nowadays, you need a great resume. One printed on 60# bond paper using four-color dye-sublimation printing process. With MS Comic Sans, 16-point bold italic underline.

      Senior Managment has supported me (even over my direct Manager).

      Ah. So there's the problem. Nobody is going to hire a troublemaker, someone who will go over their head. You want to appear to be a team player, especially in your resume. You want to appear to be eager but seasoned, a team player that will sacrifice home and family for work. I mean, literally sacrifice. Some of those folks are devil worshipers, you know, and a little blood sacrifice goes a long way.

      Anyway, tighten up that resume, friend. It's worth the US$20 to go to a professional resume-writer. Steal a sample resume while you are in their office, and use that instead of your own.

      Good luck, Tiger. Now go out and knock 'em dead! That works well, too. If they don't hire you, I mean.

      --
      Microsoft is to software what Budweiser is to beer.
    3. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      So there's the problem. Nobody is going to hire a troublemaker, someone who will go over their head.

      If someone isn't willing to hire someone with their own brain, who puts the needs of the corp ahead of their manager's petty concerns, then fuck them, right up the ass. Smart companies actively seek out troublemakers, so long as they work for the good of the company. In my last job, one of the consultants I knew told me that his role on the project was to voice unpleasant truths, and he did.

      As to the resume, don't claim communication - communicate. Tell them what you did and how it improved things. Tell them how you avoided a serious landmine or reduced costs, or something. Smart managers value people that can make money and think past the next 10-Q. You don't want to work for stupid managers.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    4. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by bogidu · · Score: 1

      "one of the consultants I knew told me that his role on the project was to voice unpleasant truths, and he did." Ahhhhh, and the keyword in this is CONSULTANT. Managment doesn't truly want this person onboard permanently. Instead, we'll take someone who is temporarily there, pay them BUTTLOAD$ and deal with them for a few months. After they leave it's back to business as usual.

    5. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      "one of the consultants I knew told me that his role on the project was to voice unpleasant truths, and he did." Ahhhhh, and the keyword in this is CONSULTANT. Managment doesn't truly want this person onboard permanently. Instead, we'll take someone who is temporarily there, pay them BUTTLOAD$ and deal with them for a few months. After they leave it's back to business as usual.

      Wheat can I say? "+1 Insightful" seems to be most appropriate.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Actually, we were all contractors there, even the project managers.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    7. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by Money+for+Nothin' · · Score: 1

      You don't want to work for stupid managers.

      Well, that's quite a paradox!

      It seems then that the only way of escaping this paradox is to go into business for yourself, isn't it?

      (So says the junior developer who has yet to discover one of these mythical, unicorn-like "good managers" who is neither stupid nor incompetent...)
    8. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      So says the junior developer who has yet to discover one of these mythical, unicorn-like "good managers" who is neither stupid nor incompetent.

      Good managers do exist, they're just fairly uncommon. I'm currently trying to change teams to one. In the meantime, watch your bosses for signs of what not to do and what to do so you can be one of the good ones when you go start a company.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    9. Re:I am sick and tired of this... by Bill+Dog · · Score: 1

      If someone isn't willing to hire someone with their own brain, who puts the needs of the corp ahead of their manager's petty concerns, then fuck them, right up the ass.

      You can fuck them wherever you like, but I want to make a living. And I learned a long time ago that I don't work for the company, I work for my manager. When my manager asks me to do something that I think costs the company money, I'll voice my concern, but then I'll do it. He hired me, he can fire me, he does my reviews and decides my raises, so he's the one I have to please. The company's given him all that power, pays him a boatload of money, and to me, that's the company expressing its confidence that his petty concerns are the company's, if you ask me.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
  26. Roll your own by castoridae · · Score: 1

    Why search for a company? Start your own. You will be directly compensated on the value you produce; no layer(s) of management to blame for ciphoning off the fruits of your labor... Of course, some of those sales & biz skills will rapidly start to feel pretty important! :-)

    1. Re:Roll your own by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      And you have the added bonus of having a 90% chance of being out of work within 3 years and having to work twice as many hours as someone else's employee.

    2. Re:Roll your own by castoridae · · Score: 1

      having to work twice as many hours as someone else's employee.

      Uh, you're either thinking of a third-world textile sweatshop as your replacement job, or you have no clue what kind of effort you need to spend in a startup. What employee position has you working twice as many hours - or even the same number of hours - as any reasonable startup effort?!

      As for 90% chance of being out of work... so what? Get another f-ing job, or try again with another startup. This sub-thread wasn't about a psychological need to cling to security (which really doesn't exist in most big companies either); it's about finding an employment situation where tech skills are valued.

      If YOU value your tech skills, you'll have some confidence that you can use them to make a living as needed.

    3. Re:Roll your own by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

      Where are ou going to raise enough capital to start your own business? My guess is you could lose your home and maybe your marriage as your bank takes it for equilateral for giving you money for the startup.

      It takes money to make money. I suppose you could be a consultant if you want to save money without renting an office but you need years and years of experience and know alot of people via networking to do this.

      But starting a business is not for everyone. We need only so many chiefs but lots of Indians.

    4. Re:Roll your own by castoridae · · Score: 1

      A bank is a rather poor place to capitalize a new business. Although I do wonder how much "equaliteral" they'd give me in exchange for a marriage - maybe that wouldn't be such a bad deal! :-D

      Friends & family is a good place to start; personal savings; and the angel community. Or you can bootstrap - start it part-time while working at a big co, build the business until it has the revenue to justify a full-time position. And yes, consulting is a viable options as well. You do need experience - and network never hurts, but it's also not entirely necessary.

      I'm doing this myself: bootstrapping a company at first with a full-time job, and now with consulting gigs which I'm reducing in scope as the business grows and moves closer to being self-sustaining. And granted I do have the experience, and the network necessary for it, but I have found a good amount of work outside my personal network. It's cyclical, but the consulting market is *hot* right now.

      As for chiefs and Indians... not sure about you, but I'd rather be a chief. And, to be honest, I have trouble respecting Indians who don't see themselves as future chiefs. (I don't need a lecture about how everyone lives their own lifestyle and goals & that's their right and privilege. Objectively, I agree. Subconsciously, I don't.)

    5. Re:Roll your own by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      First of all you've misconstrued what I said. I said that running your own business requires twice as much work as having a regular job; now most people would like to do something else with their lives apart from working all the time. As for a 90% chance of being out of work, well those are far, far worse odds than being an employee in my country. I don't know the ins and outs of US employment law but even if you're made redundant in the UK the company gives you money; that doesn't happen with a startup. In fact if you're self-employed (as opposed to a private limited company) if your company goes bust so do you.
      I'm tired of hearing libertarians on here going "just start your own company" as if it was the easiest thing in the world and a panacea for all the world's rat race woes. The fact of the matter is that you have to work twice as hard for no guaranteed income and zero job security. Some make it, usually the most vicious, but the majority fail because it is bloody hard to run a successful business and is no way in hell a substitute for a good job, especially if you're in your 30s or 40s and have kids to support and a mortgage to pay.

    6. Re:Roll your own by Thing+1 · · Score: 1
      My guess is you could lose your home and maybe your marriage as your bank takes it for equilateral for giving you money for the startup.

      What's that, Henny Youngman-style lending?

      For those too young (ha!), see the first paragraph.

      --
      I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
    7. Re:Roll your own by castoridae · · Score: 1

      Apologies if I did take what you wrote the wrong way, re effort. That's how I read it...

      It's not easy to start a business. But it's not impossible for those who are motivated - you have to look for ways to succeed, not reasons to not try. Mortgage, kids... join the club. But in that situation, you've also presumably got something to show for your 10-20 year career (saved up some equity on that house, some savings from your past work), and kids implies you've got a spouse. That spouse can be a second breadwinner! For me, these things are motivations. I want the upside of a startup because I want to give my kids a better life - and realistically, a 5-10% raise every year for being a good employee just isn't going to change your quality of life. Now I don't know your specifics, but the point is it *can* be done.

      Really, it depends if you value "security" more or the upside, and the respect. The 'respect' is what this thread is about anyway - the original topic was "where can you find a job that values your tech skills." This is a viable way to do that, and I stand by it. Anyone who has enough skill to really feel undervalued and fit into this conversation shouldn't be all that worried about security, as (at least in a reasonable first-world economy) they shouldn't have any issue finding another job as needed.

  27. if you want to stay hardcore tech, what's hot is by rubycodez · · Score: 1

    explosion in job market for certain hardcore tech skills: storage/SAN; disaster recovery including replication, failover clustering, archival and backup; security including networking and system hardening and vpn/remote access; consolidation and virtualization with vmware and now I'm getting calls for xen and other Linux vm; network engineering.

  28. Look whose talking by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Bentley is a business school. This is basically them saying, "Wahhhh... we wish IT people know our line of business... wahhhhh...."

    Duh, or COURSE they wish IT people knew their line of business. So why don't we start looking at the courses they'd like CS majors to NOT take in order to make time for the business courses. Databases? Obvious nope. Programming languages or operating systems? Not a great idea if you want them to pick up new platforms / languages quickly. Algorithms? Don't hire that person to a project where you need advanced warning that something won't scale well. Computer graphics? OK, maybe that one is rarely necessary, but that's just one course.

    My point is whether or not the author knows it, they're asking to eat their cake and (still) have it too. They want someone to study the line of business more, but ignore the dumbing-down effect that has on their IT skills. Taken to that extreme, you may as well just offer a few extra "IT" courses within the business department, and let those people be your company's IT staff. Which in most cases is moronic for well-known reasons.

  29. So the question remains . . . . . by bogidu · · Score: 1

    Which bozo post-dated the article by 3 days then released it on the net?? Tomorrow's "Versatilest" or today's "regular" manager?

  30. Maybe I Haven't Been Around Long Enough, But... by chevman · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I've only worked in corporate America for 3 years now, but I see a couple trends: 1. There are 3 basic types of IT: - Production Support - the folks who run the systems from a day to day standpoint - Admins - the folks who keep the systems running on a slightly longer time frame than day to day - Developers - ie programmers who write the code to do the above two functions Prod support and admin functions can be outsourced relatively easily. Dev functions often require a good deal of business knowledge. What pisses me off are the developers who on the one hand complain about management's shortcomings, yet when backed into a corner play the whole 'well, that's not what the spec says' card. Lame if you ask me. You may be intelligent, but intelligence is rarely the limiting factor in corporate america (by, 'rarely' i mean never. if you think otherwise, typically that implies you are probably arrogant.)

    1. Re:Maybe I Haven't Been Around Long Enough, But... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you apparently haven't been in the corporate world that long.

      "...if you think otherwise, typically that implies you are probably arrogant."

      If you keep making assanine assertions like that, three years in the corporate world will be all you get. Watch your mouth.

  31. stop and think about it by moochfish · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wait, so where do these IT people get all these conglamoration of skills? Seems like you can't do it without several years of working history. If anything, that tells me the industry will start to heavily focus on internal training to ensure new and old IT staff can fill this new gap.

    You aren't born with business/writing/accounting know-how, nor with IT knowledge. People already spend a lifetime trying to be an expert in their respective fields. You can't be an expert in every field, especially those that require distinctly different skills.

    1. Re:stop and think about it by TopShelf · · Score: 1

      What you're speaking of is a huge problem - IT knowledge can be learned through school, training, etc., but industry knowledge generally only comes through experience working on cross-functional projects that expose you to the whole organization. Unfortunately for most techies, good project management means bringing the right resources to bear on the right tasks at the right time, which argues against bringing tech staff into the requirements gathering activity (which is often where the rocks get lifted and you see just how ugly the business really is).

      What it takes are open minded managers (yes, they are out there) who are willing to open a seat at the table to techies on a regular basis. In my last job, I was the only systems person stationed at a distribution center (part of a global business), so was considered part of the DC management team and participated in all their review and planning sessions. It made me much more effective in meeting the business needs, and also beefed up my credentials invaluably.

      In short, I recommend to IT folks to ask questions about the business side of things, and why particular requests are being made. It's common sense - as an IT professional, try to understand your customers' needs, otherwise you'll wake up one day and find yourself being tossed to the curb.

      --
      Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
    2. Re:stop and think about it by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately for most techies, good project management means bringing the right resources to bear on the right tasks at the right time, which argues against bringing tech staff into the requirements gathering activity (which is often where the rocks get lifted and you see just how ugly the business really is).

      I love how this works - managers refuse to tell you how things work (so I hear), then complain that you don't know the business side. Odd thing is, most every place I've been has been more than happy to tell me about the biz. In fact, where I currently am, we are intimately connected to the biz and are making progress on things like getting bizdev people to talk to us before promising features we can't support (the specific example involves charging fees based on things we don't track in software - our response to the last minute request was to tell them to hire accountants). I don't work IT - I do software, and that almost always requires me to know the business.

      What it takes are open minded managers (yes, they are out there) who are willing to open a seat at the table to techies on a regular basis.

      Simple education helps too - if your manager tells you about what's coming down the pipe, you get an idea of how things work. The next step is to ask questions and find out who you need to talk to, then go talk to them.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    3. Re:stop and think about it by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Wait, so where do these IT people get all these conglamoration of skills?

      You pay an H-1B to learn all the stuff at 1/6 the cost for you to learn it, then graft their head to yours. Two heads are better than one.

  32. Everyone else! by porkThreeWays · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I've never understood why business people, management, basically any non-technical position is considered the top part of the totem pole. Put 4 engineers together and they are going to make something really interesting that just may better this planet. Put 4 businessmen together and they'll probably come up with a new cover sheet for a 3 letter report.

    --
    If an officer ever threatens to taze you, say you have a pacemaker.
    1. Re:Everyone else! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've never understood why business people, management, basically any non-technical position is considered the top part of the totem pole. Put 4 engineers together and they are going to make something really interesting that just may better this planet. Put 4 businessmen together and they'll probably come up with a new cover sheet for a 3 letter report.

      As an engineer, I used to have this mindset until I and two other engineers (plu a graphic designer) founded a company. All of a sudden there were all sorts of overhead to consider with regard to managing the company that we either underestimated or didn't anticipate at alll. The experience was a rude awakening, and in the 18 months that we grew from 4 guys to a company of 35 employees, I gained so much respect for business people, because managing people can be tough.

  33. Cross Dicipline by GreatRedShark · · Score: 0

    I admit I only skimmed the article, but it seems like what they're saying is "make yourself cross-dicipline if you want a good job!" ...and probably in a second dicipline that is very different from a primary CS/IT/Eng.
    I kinda wish I'd had the time/energy/money to do a double-major in school.
    I do still plan to go back within the next couple years though...

  34. The author is happy with "dumbing down". by khasim · · Score: 3, Insightful
    The first line of the first FA:
    The most sought-after corporate IT workers in 2010 may be those with no deep-seated technical skills at all.

    I don't know about you, but that's a huge warning to me.
    Instead, IT departments will be populated with "versatilists" -- those with a technology background who also know the business sector inside and out, can architect and carry out IT plans that will add business value, and can cultivate relationships both inside and outside the company.

    So, the "most sought-after" IT worker will be one who can ... "cultivate relationships" with "outside" people who do have the "deep-seated technical skills".

    Why? Because ...
    The nuts-and-bolts programming and easy-to-document support jobs will have all gone to third-party providers in the U.S. or abroad.

    Translation:
    2010 management will demand IT staff who can understand the business and technology sufficiently to manage the out-sourced projects.

    Said out-sourced projects will be the actual writing of the software that supports the company and the end-user support of the remaining company employees who use the software that was written by other people outside the company.

    Welcome to the "Titanic" business model.

    I'm sure you can all imagine the fun that that will be. With the out-sourced support staff blaming the out-sourced programmers and the out-sourced programmers blaming the support staff ... while your users struggle to just get their work done.
  35. And yet . . . . by bogidu · · Score: 1

    Intel just canned 1000 MANAGERS and not 1000 IT people?

    1. Re:And yet . . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gotta link to that info?

    2. Re:And yet . . . . by bogidu · · Score: 1

      http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=33 020 The article and the email that went out to employees.

  36. I agree, this article coule have been written 20 by Mycroft_514 · · Score: 1

    years ago. The managers were saying the same things then. They say it because they don't understand the complexities of what we do, and can't (otherwise they would be in IT). We can understand them, and most of us ignore these ignoramouses, who mouth off with this stuff. Business analysts work with the business, technical types do technical, cause it is a full time career just to understand all the technical stuff.

  37. Not surprising... by Refried+Beans · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What else did you expect to hear out of a business school?

  38. Make sh*t work by MrNougat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The IT people who are always going to be in demand are those who make sh*t work - whether those are managers pulling projects together under time/budget, or coders/networking/systems people who fix broken stuff and build the right new environments.

    Yes, you'd damn well better have the needs of the business in mind in any position. But if Company A decides they're going to have manager types who don't have IT skills doing skilled IT work, they're going to find out real quick that sh*t don't work and there's no one around who can fix it.

    --
    Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
  39. business skills is always neccessary by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no matter how good programmer or technical person you are,but in the IT field if you can not make any client or impress your client with your skills then it is useless.
    so business skills is a must.you must have understanding or market and future requrments :)
    http://www.secgeeks.com/

    1. Re:business skills is always neccessary by Anonymous+MadCoe · · Score: 1

      Very true. Actually what's described in the article is already happening. Sure there will be a ndeed for programmers/sysadmins etc. _but_ if you want to move ahead you _will_ have to understand your business. This already is the case, and actually was the case over 10 years ago.

      I have alwais made an effort to get more business knowledge and I must say it has alwais created lots of new exciting opportunities for me. Dowside is hat you become less of a geek...

  40. Re:Work, little NeoSlaves, work hard, harder, hard by xyphor · · Score: 1

    >>You haven't an answer for my ideas, so strike back in ignorant and sullen silence, ever the domesticated animal.

    An answer for your ideas? Your ideas are questions? Huh? Too much ambiguity....discard.

  41. Let's cut to the chase... by tyrione · · Score: 2, Insightful

    We want to hire one person not only to do the tech skills of four but we now want you to be our point of sale and make it all happen. We'll pay you for the talents of 1.5 employees while we keep costs down by 3.5 employees.

    1. Re:Let's cut to the chase... by Bill+Dog · · Score: 1

      Yup, since managers get paid twice what techies make, or in other words, they're currently receiving two jobs' worth of money, the logical choice then for who's going to take on a 2nd whole entire skillset is... the techies!

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
  42. If I know the business, why bother to work in IT? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I've worked for over 15 years in IT. I've seen in more and more cases that programmers are being put futher and further from the business side of anything. Most jobs I've worked introduced the concept of a busness analyst.

    The problem with the business analysts I've encountered is that they know neither the business nor technical aspects of IT. They're hired because of people skills which doesn't help get the request from the customer to the programmer. Too often they lack even simple logic skills.

    This puts the programmer in a position of knowing their system and being removed from the busniess.

    Why would I want to spend time learning a business only to be placed in an area where that knowledge will likely go stale? If I were in the finance dept., why move to IT especially when it's viewed as a cost center in most companies and thus worthy of budget cuts and outsourcing.

    I guess business people are tired of the responsibility of knowing their business and having to actually think through the business rules they want IT to implement.

  43. Re:Work, little NeoSlaves, work hard, harder, hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    as an american, your point is interesting. to some degree, i think it is true. there is no doubt the upper class does all it can to take advantage of everyone else. they want lower and lower taxes. they want lower and lower wages. they want to sell for higher and higher prices.

    enough is never enough.

    i don't think this is an american thing, though, i think it is a greed thing - and that is the disease of the human soul that will eventually destroy us.

    that is how it plays out in the usa.

    while this overachievement does benefit the upper class to the greatest extent, it has other perks, too. like being able to muster the technological resources to save other countries from evil empires.

    or start bs wars based on smoke and mirrors.

    we live in interesting times. i'd say the over under for humanity's survival is less than 100 years - and that includes the greedy people at the top, too.

  44. Knowledge engineering by elgee · · Score: 1

    Knowledge engineering. knowing a knowledge domain well coupled with technical IT skills, has always been in demand. Architecting a good enterprise business database requires good knowledge of the business plus a good database skill set.

    Pure coding is being shipped elsewhere, methinks.

  45. i didn't rtfa, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    it seems to make some sense... but probably spun into oblivion.

    let's take my case. i'm a degreed manufacturing engineer. i learned programming b/c, well, the guy i replaced in a supervisor/management position spent 30+ hours a week playing with a spreadsheet - and i didn't want to do that. so i set up a vb6 / access db to get manage the data for me. don't laugh, i didn't know better.

    i then created a work instruction db to handle 30-40 work instruction permutations when there were 5+ engineering orders per week that could apply to one or more work instruction set. since i detailed installed parts, the company was finally able to get their first correct bill of materials. that's right, they had ZERO correct BOMs prior to my getting the job done. they had two guys working ovetime trying to manage that disaster in word... and that was internal. my system was set up to outsource the work.

    i then got smarter and moved on to lapp - linux, apach, php and postgresql. i've set up a work instruction and quality database.

    i'm now learning ruby and rails to see how can i apply that technology. the oop and pre-organiztion stuff is kind of challenging, but i'm getting it.

    iow, i know the business and i learned programming to help me do my job better.

    am i the best programmer around? nope. i am decent, though. i found out that my db passwords are more secure than the fbi's passwords - and my table includes one username and one password. i'm also finding out that the ruby on rails guys apply a lot of what i tried to piece meal together... except they do it better and also do additional organizational things that i hadn't gotten to as of yet. so i'm not too bad, either. i do know i need to get better, though.

    i design, i program, i qa, i refactor, i administer... i do the whole darn thing. precisely b/c i understand the business that i'm in - and i learn the minutae as required.

    my advice to "get paid" is to learn to kiss *ss like your next breath depends on it. i don't do that due to general principle. since i'm not talking up the boss' kids, hobbies, etc... i have to more to be seen as valuable... so i do more. heck, i do it all. while my group was setting production and quality records at a prior job, the guy who sat on his behind and read "how to win friends and influence others" ended up lasting longer than i did... yeah, he's the exact same guy that said i was a "bad supervisor" b/c i helped my employees succeed by working beside them - including taking out their trash so they could work more effectively.

    i'm not hating, though. we all have our failings and, unfortunately, lots of PHB types are unable to separate perceived personal life from professional business. this leaves them wide open to be manipulated by people who see them as easy marks and spend their energy working them over while others run the business. how naive to think these folks actually like them... they respect their position, nothing more. if they weren't in their job and didn't have control over the manipulator, they'd be on the outs. but they aren't socially sophisticated enough to learn this.

    thank goodness for all the open source contributors and the generous people who have contributed to programming education on the net, newsgroups, mailing lists, etc. i'm still amazed at what is possible if the desire is there. i'm nowhere without all of you. thanks. i share the love any way i can, too. it is give and take... not just take.

    my business knowledge does give me an advantage over another dev who can program twice as efficiently as i can. well, program, design, administer... everything... twice as good as i can. today. i created my niche, spiced with some good fortune. your average dev can't do what i've done b/c they haven't spent the time understanding the business process. it isn't rocket science, but there are subtleties. i got burned a couple times since some of the subtleties weren't communicated to me in a timely manner.

    it

  46. Re:TRANSLATION (SHOULD BE FUNNY) by hazah · · Score: 1

    Message to mods: If you can't see the irony, please turn off your computer.

  47. Re:Until push comes to shove. however... by callingalloldhippies · · Score: 1

    "Business skills being more important doesn't make tech skills non-essential."

    however, the truth or fiction of the above, does NOT negate what I, personally consider the most poorly addressed and lowest item on the direction future business models are going. Customer Service is an impenetrable wall between the end user (Buyers)as well as sales and technology because they are both isolated from user-land reality, as frankly, is management.

    It seems to me, since this site, to which I am an avid and long time reader, is so technically, automatically focused that you tend to forget you are the creators and NOT the end users.

    I'm a fairly knowledgeable end user. But I am the average employee. I do "A" job, with a computer, in "A" industry or maybe several over the years. I play games, e-mail, do music or DVDs. I have a family and we have three computers with 3 different level of users. 'two' of us use different computers with different providers and operating systems at work. Comprehending the beneath the surface capabilities of multiple systems is 'unrealistic' expectation of users.

    Most end users are Internet users NOT necessarily COMPUTER users. They are also End user buyers.

    Technology is that box and stuff. Great Merchandising with COOL ads implant BRANDS!

    Brands sell, Users buy, tons of great stuff.

    NO ONE who is capable of dealing with the product in real life is ever available to resolve 'that/this' problem again. No Script? No Answer OR, MY VERY FAVORITE, repeat the exact same script at least three times until my head explodes!

    I will continue to buy computers, laptops, Gotta have it software, but I find myself losing out more and more. I made a vow when Amazon patented double click to Boycott those companies who failed to provide their promise, acted immorally, and Failed to provide the customer service they promise. A damn computer that tells me what buttons to push to preform a process that has nothing to do with my issue and requires me to get a cauliflower ear while waiting to do so IS NOT CUSTOMER SERVICE.

    A company, large or small, who will address my problem with 1. interest ( hear the complaint/issue)
    2. actually make an attempt at ratifying/politely explaining potential operator error/or offering to research and inform me of an answer
    3.EVEN if the answer is not what I wanted to hear, will get my repeat business every time.

    Future Business needs to address the human component of IT. People are sick and tired of feeling ripped off by these giants and eventually if you look hard enough you find a way to cease doing business with them.

    --
    "Never try to teach a pig to sing. It simply wastes your time and truely annoys the pig"
  48. My Feedback to them (you may not care (:) by hazah · · Score: 1
    As someone who has to actually envision these technical system which you describe in your article, I feel completely misrepresented. These people will simply not be able to function as an IT department since, as it states, they do not have IT "roots".
    There is a reason why people go to school for programming, networking, graphic arts, and various other subsets of these general types of programs. These subjects are _hard_. They require a lot of time and dedication. If such time is not put into studying various aspects of technology, then quite frankly, the designs will be horribly unmaintainable, useless, and obsolete.
    The point is, experienced developers, system designers, and graphic artists, still struggle to create even a workable system. This is why good systems drive up costs so much. There is _no_ blanket solution to this, other than realizing that it will take programmers & analysts to design and implement these things. To delegate this task to someone without even the basic knowledge of complex tools such as software and its inner workings, will not help anyone.
    As a recommendation, allow someone with real-world IT experience, someone who has built a large, maintainable system (still in use today), to read your articles on the subject before posting it, and then analyze what information you can gather. Some people, whose expertise are in a different field, may actually think this is a good idea and put themselves in undesirable situations.
    Thank you for your time.

    Come to think of it, I hope they don't get the impression that I'm volunteering :\. I'm not.

    Mods: If it itches, just go with funny.

  49. IT vs real tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why is it on slashdot and digg whenever the topic is on employment, jobs or research , it's always about I.T? For all engineers out there, being called I.T is nothing but disgrace. There are more challenging things to do than I.T. Come on guys!

    1. Re:IT vs real tech by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wot? Like Drive a Train? You've got to be joking!

  50. Re:Work, little NeoSlaves, work hard, harder, hard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They have enslaved our minds by creating a culture that is centered around work and achievement and competition and consumerism.

    Soudns rather nice and productive, the trick is of course to find work which one enjoys.

    While Europeans have the best of both worlds, lazing their summers away on the beach

    No from whatI hear the Europeans are far from the middle, they're working for the sake of working and nothing else. I talked to someone from France a few weeks ago and he said it's basically impossible to have any ambition or drive there because no one else has any. People look forward to retirement alone isntead of trying to find interesting work.

    If you talk about domesticated animals than europeans seem much more liek it than americans. They do their boring work for the required amount of time, work hard durign that time withotu slacking off much. They look forward to their time in the pasture, and show little passion for what they do except that they must do it.

  51. Class envy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Four businessmen in a room, with knowledge of their customers' needs and with insight from their technical staff and with a combined big rolodex of vendors, partners, and subcontractors, can broker the deals to employ 40, 400, or 4,000 engineers and can cause money to flow.

    It is far less likely that four arbitrary engineers in a room will come up with a good idea *and* be able to create and grow an enterprise that requires four businessmen. Sure, it's possible---just like every kid can grow up to be the president, an astronaut, or a sports star---it's just not as likely.

    Reality check: The purpose of business is not engineering. Engineering is one of many things that a business can sell.

    -JM

  52. learn the cliches, I mean the language by misanthrope101 · · Score: 1
    Bottom line is diversify your portfolio of skills
    I'd say the bottom line is to learn to speak and act like a suit even when keeping the brainpower of the techie. Suits respect suits, and there is a coded language they use, much like dogs sniffing each other's behinds. Pick up a popular business book some day--the vacuity actually sucks air from the room. But these people are inexplicably good at making money, so go figure. But they do not respect a t-shirted morlock telling them that their latest epiphany/paradigm shift/cheese-moving is impossible, much less an all-around stupid idea. For a tech-head to get along with the business folks, she (or he, if so equipped) must learn to use the vaguely optimistic but non-committal generalizations that suits use. Those vacuous cliches they throw around so much may be grating to sentient mammals, but those cliches are subtly coded messages saying "I'm in the club." I have actually discovered that throwing these cliches around in meetings, while sounding vaguely optimistic about whatever the flavor-of-the-week buzzword is, makes the suits like me more and vastly improves my quality of life. What I can't figure out is if I find this new knowledge to be a ray of sunshine or just depressing as hell. Can people really fall for a string of randomly assembled cliches? Yes. Yes, they can.
  53. The answer is obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Technical problems will be solved by engineers in low-wage countries like India, China, and Bangladesh. Wake up and smell the coffee: software, and most technical designs, can be shipped across the internet with 3 mouseclicks. So they will be developed where they can be developed at lowest cost.

    1. Re:The answer is obvious by hazah · · Score: 1

      If you could do that, and it actually worked, wouldn't it already be happening. Seems like something, according to observation, is not working when this theory goes to practice.

  54. Bcom IT by drac0n1z · · Score: 1

    I'm currently studying Bcom IT in South-Africa, it is Financial and Management Accounting, basic programming of excel and java, system analysis and design, both theory and practical, and oracle sql databases. Because it is a Bcom degree we have a few other business subjects. Hopefully I will find good employment with this degree when I leave this country.

    --
    This is my sig.
  55. doing the business ... by rs232 · · Score: 1

    I once worked for a 'business' manager and spent two month collating accounts data into a spreadsheet. He couldn't understand the concept of backups and stored the one copy of the file in the C:\progra~1\excell directory and was in the habit of deleting the entire directory once a week.

    "they will use outside vendors to gain those skills"

    What he means is when they want to appear 'managerial' they hire in a systems analyst to tell them what their own staff already know. You get the work done in spite of them. And usually better when they are out of the office.

    "business analysts in business units answer to business executives, with a dotted line to the CIO"

    And the PHB gets to pretend to know what he is doing to earn ten time your salary. That article is just so much self congradulatory wishfull thinking. 'Oh, for the day when us PHB don't need the IT dept'.

    When they start making up bogus cod technological tets you know it's just so much hot air.

    See here for a software application masquerading as Business Intelligence

    Now excuse me while I go upstairs and show some idiot how to email an attachment - for the tenth time.

    --
    davecb5620@gmail.com
  56. I.T. will gather more respect because - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    in the future I.T. will be treated as highly diversified janitorial staff.

  57. But you need experience in those technologies by walterbyrd · · Score: 1

    It's the old chicken-and-egg problem. No body will hire you for those "hot" technology unless you already have years of experience with them.

    1. Re:But you need experience in those technologies by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      actually, most of these technologies haven't been around for years and years. The motivated geek can incorporate many of these things into a project with existing servers and networking hardware for $0.00 extra expense. Or for starters mess with them at home. Build an iSCSI SAN, or make an oracle RAC cluster on a firewire device or supported NAS, learn how to build your own router and vpn, make a Xen virtual machine, sign up for a VMWare ESX evaluation, etc. You'd be surprise what you can give yourself experience in if you put your mind to it, been working for me for over 20 years

  58. perfect by majortom1981 · · Score: 1

    My local state college knew it was ehading this way .Thats why I took my bachelors in Manament of information technology. Half computer courses and half business administration. NOw I know ill be ready :). it also helped that I had an Associates in Network Administration.

    1. Re:perfect by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "My local state college knew it was ehading this way .Thats why I took my bachelors in Manament of information technology. Half computer courses and half business administration. NOw I know ill be ready :). it also helped that I had an Associates in Network Administration."

      Dude, you can't even SPELL. How in the world do you expect to be a viable contender for jobs that require - among other things - basic literary skills?

  59. This service industry trend is crazy... by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    Engineering skills in the US are already undervalued.
    We are just heading to a point where no-on at all in the US will actually DO anything. Everyone will just be middle-men managing everyone else. It's like one of those pyramid schemes.
    If someone somewhere in the business pyramid doesn't actually produce some tangible product (i.e. made by engineers) then you've got no basis on which to exist.

  60. Consider the source by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Bentley College is known for its part-time MBA program, they sponsor NPR in MA to get a plug for the program on Morning Edition. Not suprising that a school in a high-tech area which awards MBAs is saying that all tech workers will need an MBA in 4 years...

  61. Sir Arthur C. Clarke ain't dead! by PhakeDC · · Score: 1

    You schmuck why do you post such ignorant and wrong info?

  62. MOD PARENT DOWN! by PhakeDC · · Score: 1

    Oh and I forgot to ask dear /. readers to mod that schmuck down, a shame I can't mod his arse myself since I decided to post :-/

  63. Meanwhile, back in the real world... by IL-CSIXTY4 · · Score: 1

    I've been on a few interviews in the last few months, and no matter how well the interview seemed to be going, the conversation pretty much ended when it became clear that I didn't have experience with Websphere or Weblogic, or I hadn't used Struts in my current position.

    Sure, I could write off these interviewers as being short-sighted, but that doesn't change the reality that employers are looking for people who know a particular set of skills, and have used them oh-so-recently.

    One interview, I had to keep saying "no, being a startup, my current employer can't afford solutions like that, BUT MY PREVIOUS EMPLOYER..." to almost every question, because they kept asking if I was using these technologies right now.

    Business schools and even C-level management may give lip service to the idea of having employees with both business and technical skills. But, the people in the trenches are the ones doing the hiring, and they are more concerned with the day to day technical realities of the operation. They need people with particular technical skills fresh in their minds who can jump in and start reacting to said C-level managers' demands.

    I just re-read what I wrote, and it sounds like I'm standing on both sides of the fence. I'm whining a bit because I don't have the exact skills they're looking for and they don't seem to be considering my business skills or even my ability to apply prior knowledge (Oracle Application Server, Tomcat...) to new problems. But I also understand that they need people who can start solving problems for them right now. My solution? I guess there's going to be Websphere & Weblogic certification in my future.

    Don't listen to this article. Business skills wont get you in the door.

  64. C2 wiki on this by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I have found that companies generally don't seem to value domain (biz) knowledge, and others seem to agree. Here is more on this phenom:

    http://www.c2.com/cgi/wiki?WhyIsDomainKnowledgeNot Valued

    1. Re:C2 wiki on this by kraut · · Score: 1

      If you think companies don't value domain knowledge, try to get an IT job in the front office of an investment bank, especially in derivatives. You'll see how much in demand it is, and how much is paid for it.

      --
      no taxation without representation!
  65. Re:If I know the business, why bother to work in I by IsItWashable · · Score: 1

    People skills certainly help in a Business Analyst role (I am one, btw), but essentially what businesses (particularly sales and marketing areas) want is someone who understands both the needs of the business (drive sales, increase revenues etc) and has the technical ability to assess the feasibility of those requests. From an IT point of view, I've met programmers who come out with stuff like "I fucking hate salesmen" - totally missing the point of working in a commercial environment(er, perhaps you'd rather teach?). It's a "never the twain" kind of role - both business people and IT departments each think the others are dickheads/impossible to work with/have no idea about the real world - and while a BA is not exactly going to orgamise a group love-in, there is always a need for that kind of interface in order to achieve goals and finish projects.

  66. Nothing new. by PhotoGuy · · Score: 1

    Before university, I worked with a comp sci university grad, and was so disappointed in how little he could apply his skills to the business at hand. It's what led me to take a B. Comm. in University. I followed it up with an M. Sc., which was a good mix. The computer technology, I always found I could easily learn; the business skills were better learned in the University environment. I never regretted that approach. (Led to me being able to found one business that employed 100 people for a few years, and another that employed a half dozen for a copule of years, and another one on the go now.)

    --
    Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
  67. I totally agree (I'm a manager now, and it's easy) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've worked about 7 years as a developer, then due to wanting to move to a different area & having 2 small kids, etc. and other reasons, I went the Dark Side last year and accepted a job as a manager in a business unit. Everything the parent poster says is true: as a group, business managers are nowhere near as intelligent as coders. I'd have to say too, their vaunted social & people skills are only a trifle better than those of developers. Business managers do have an enormous chip on their shoulders vis a vis technologists, it is true. I am living proof that someone with a technology background can master "business skills" in about a month, maybe two. It just ain't that hard.

    In a nutshell, here's what constitutes "business skills": learn the basics of finance and accounting, that takes about 2-4 weeks to get comfortable with. Then, find nice-looking clothes that don't wrinkle easily, unfortunately business clothes do tend to cost more than coder clothes. Whiten your teeth, if necessary. Get a good haircut. The main thing, after the appearances: smile and act by default in a friendly manner toward all, exuding a sort of relaxed optimism as your default persona. That is about it, it takes maybe two months to do this stuff and have it feel natural (enough). I still do coding when I can, to automate my work and for my own sense of self-worth.

  68. Trust counts by mcrbids · · Score: 1
    Anyway, tighten up that resume, friend. It's worth the US$20 to go to a professional resume-writer. Steal a sample resume while you are in their office, and use that instead of your own.

    Screw resumes. They are for the weak. What you need is notoriety. Be very ,very, good at what you do, and always get better, every day. And once you've gotten very good at what you do, then be famous! I'm not kidding!

    Give first. Get in touch with your local cable-access channel, and produce your own "IT for small business" show. It takes minimal expertise to produce a "local quality" show. Perhaps $2000 in equipment is all you need - you can get by with as little as $750. Heck, in your community, there might be FREE equipment you could use!

    Produce an episode weekly, and try to get it aired at a consistent time. Don't make it an ad, make it informative, and USEFUL for viewers. As soon as people see that you are not trying to sell them something, they'll listen to whatever you say. And, if you briefly mention some contact information, you'll have people lining up to throw money at you, because they'll TRUST you. In each episode, you are giving them something they can use. They will reward you for it.

    As another case of give first: years ago, I owned a computer store. We had an area we called the "triage" to take computers and give them a once-over. When a customer asked about a problem, we quote a "free diagnostic". We gave the diagnostic right there, as they stood there. It usually took about 10-15 minutes. We gave the system a very detailed once-over, and usually performed a free service or two. (such as running a virus scanner). Combined with a bit of Q&A, we determined the work that needed to be performed. We got comments about the thorough checkout, even though it was pretty quick.

    Because we gave them something first, we almost NEVER GOT TURNED DOWN on a work order quote. It just didn't happen. We'd given them something, they watched us do it, and because of that, they felt compelled to give something back.

    Establish yourself as "the guy who always can get the right answer". NEVER GIVE A BULLSHIT ANSWER. If you don't know, be honest about it, and then offer to research an answer. .

    "Well, I don't know much about Cisco IOS, but I've done basic routing in Linux, and I'm certain it's possible to set up the VPN like that. If you want me to, I could look it up....".

    You don't have to be omnipotent - and they'll learn quickly if you are BSing them. But, if you work and strive to be the person that never "lets them down" because you always offer something truthful and workable, you'll never, ever go hungry.

    People talk to each other. What you want to be is the name that's uttered just after business owner X says to business owner Y: "I'm looking for somebody who ____, who would you recommend?". If you've avoided the BS answers, and you've given somebody something they can use, they'll probably use your name. This is the highest form of notoriety - the referral.

    Now, perhaps my formula is a bit scary - I haven't had a "job" in almost 15 years - I've been a consultant/freelance/business-owner all along, in fields as diverse as aviation, real estate, job-placement, IT, and education. But there are plenty with lots of money who pay me well because I never pretend to be anything but what I'm not.

    I can't tell you how many times I've left a sales presentation, having spent 5 minutes explaining that I can do A, B, and C, and 3 hours 55 minutes explaining that I can't do D, E, F, G, H, I, J, K, L, M, N, O, P, Q, R, S, YT, U, V, W, X, Y, or Z, and ended up with the contract, even with competitors that could do A-N! It's a big selling point to tell people what you aren't -it establishes trust and a definition of expectations that's comforting to people. They know your limits, and they know what to expect from you. And having the confidence to calmly say what your limits are lets peop

    --
    I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
  69. Ohhh...I can't wait by infosec_spaz · · Score: 1

    I am looking forward to the day when the business requires us IT folks to be straight up pimps! I personally love wearing a large purple hat with a 3 foot long feather, and the platform shoes....oooooohhhh!!! How about they leave IT people alone, quit trying to remake us into some fucking image they think should be, and let us do our fucking jobs!!! I wonder what Jesus REALLY looked like...and I wonder how many years it took for the powers to be to make him into the tall, bearded, gentle hanson man you see in pictures...

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    ----- I have bad karma for a reason! -----
  70. Since when has IT been so technical by ClosedSource · · Score: 1

    Has IT ever been the place where hard-core development goes on? In high-tech companies, IT generally doesn't directly participate in product development.