Well, as far as I am concerned, the setting should be in BOTH places
How does that solve the problem of having everything cluttered with options? Frankly, I _hate KDE's control center
How are people supposed to adopt the OS when a setting as simple as this is only easy to find for "advanced users"?
The reasoning of the gnome devs is that only advanced users would need it, and others are better served with spatial mode. Whether this is true has been debated for months on the gnome mailing lists, and everybody who cares had his chance to have his voice heard
Point taken. My 15 levels comment was targetted at home dirs. I don't know what you'd do with nautilus in the paths you gave. I think we can agree that the nautilus design and the Gnome desktop as a whole is targetted to average users. People who have any business mucking around in Oracle install dirs should be able to cahnge a gconf setting.
The configuration for how a thing behaves should be changeable on THAT thing, not somewhere else. It's just basic usability!
The gnome developers decided otherwise, and there are good reasons for it, too. Case in point: the config options of Sawfish. The gnome devs say it's good usability to have the options in the app that the target user would need. It doesn't help the target user if he can't find his options b/c of a gazillion obsure options hide them. So the gnome devs decided the have all advanced options in a different app, where the advanced user has no prob finding them. I guess both ways have some arguments going for them
It's an incredibly simple requirement: profess your faith in Jesus as your savior, accept the gift of redemption offered by his death (and proven valid by his resurrection). That's it. Nothing else to it [...] There's no ass-kissing involved
Learn how to use it. Use Shift-doubleclick or middle-doubleclick to automatically close the parent. Alternatively, go wherever you want, then use "Close all parents" from the menu. As I said in my other reply, if you insist on having 15 levels of hirarchy, spatial nautilus is probably not for you, and _I_ think, 15 levels is braindead. 15 levels are terrible to navigate in a browser too, because you will scroll off to the right all the time. Spatial/is/ an option, there is a big fat "Browse filesystem" button on the panel, or you can rightclick a folder and choose "browse", or you can check a simple option in gconf-editor. And if you try to tell me that somebody who is used to manage 15 levels of hierarchy in a tree view has a prob with gconf-editor, I don't believe you. Gnome had to get rid of options to reach a sane base, from where good options can and will be added in a sane way. IMO, e.g. KDE is an unwieldy mess, and when they will reach a point where the'll have to make the same tough decisions as Gnome had. I'm glad Gnome has it already behind it. BTW, one argument against useless options that Havoc made originally, but which is forgotten now all the time: there are not only interface complexity costs, but code complexity costs plus debugging issues. Many bugs happpen only in some obscure combination of 100 options, which can never be sensibly reported or reproduced.
I am confused. If you don't open a new window for each folder, a file manager can't be spatial. Also, there/are/ easy to find browser options for nautilus. Personally, I find spatial nautilus convenient for the stuff in my home dir, and would browse if I had to go out of ~. But actually, "normal" users rarely do that, and I use the CLI for it
No it's a lie as has been pointed out tens of times in the replies. There's a) a button on the panel "browse filesystem" b) rightclick a folder and seelct "browse..." c) the gconf setting is not obscure and IMHO gconf-editor does not resemble regedit one bit. While registry keys are not documeted and have cryptic names, in gconf-editor I go to Applications -> nautilus and find a documented setting
After writing my previous comment, I saw that you did try it, but not a lot it seems:
With the new Nautilus, getting to some files could cause 15 stinken windows to open
Use middle-click, it will close the parent. Use shortcuts. Set it to use browser mode in gconf. Etc., lots of options. And frankly, I consider 15 levels deep file hierarchies as braindead as you find nautilus
Windows' "Open folder in new window" has nothing to do with a spatial file manager whatsoever. This issue has been beaten to death on the gnome mailing lists during nautilus discussions. If you want to judge nautilus, try it. Don't draw your conclusions from the totally broken Windows way
But FreeBSD is a cathedral, no bazaar. And IIRC the main argument against using CVS for Linux was that it is not up to the task in the highly distributed and diconnected environment which is Linux development
If another isn't released by this July, that'll be two years
Which still only means that there were 2 years between releaeses, not that it's delayed for 2 years. Unless you suggest that initially they had planned to release Sarge on the same day Woody was released.
Personally I run Woody + backports on my desktop, and I really could care less whether I have the latest release of boa or some such. For stuff where it matters, http://www.backports.org is great, and Gnome and KDE also have backports available. Stable + backports is the perfect combination for me, and I hope Debian will make official backports in the future
but at the time Qt wasn't Free enough to suit certain people
No offense, I agree with your post, but this one stuck out. I think with hindsight one really has to admit that "certain people" were absolutely right, and I shudder to think what Linux's position would be like today, if the only Desktop Environment usable by the masses depended on a thoroughly unfree toolkit (as Qt undisputedly was at the time). I am still waiting for one of the lead KDE guys to come forward and, looking at the FSF and Gnome guys, say, "Well you know, you were right. We would have digged Linux into a hole if we had our way".
Stop spreading misinformation/lies and read what Stallman really says. He argues that GNU, a free reimplementation of Unix, was the idea of the FSF, and all the groundwork (both in tools and in mindshare) was laid by them. And that it still is the GNU system, even if Linux is currently used as it's kernel. The GNU system drops the "/Linux" when it runs on Hurd
Well my Debian woody was able to mount my digicam as a USB mass storage device, while Win 2000 wanted a driver. So, Win 2000 is now "F&*ked before it even gets off the ground"?
Re:Any commerical companies using these?
on
GTK 2.4.0 Released
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· Score: 1
You can do this, it's called upgrading windows. It takes about an hour, requires 2 mouse clicks, and doesn't install "over" your old one, but upgrades it as necessary
You are comparing apples and oranges. What you describe here is equivalent to an upgrade from SuSE 8.2 to 9.0 or Debian Woody to Sarge. These also upgrade (not install over), are tested and work. The whle kernel upgrade issues exists only for people who do it manually on their old distros, which would be equivalent to downloading the ntkernel.dll of SP and shoehorning it into 2000 manually.
I think it's much easier to do debian apt-get update then apt-get upgrade if you ask me
Same here. And I did set up a few people with Debian, and they all have no problem with it whatsoever. Not Aunt Tillies, but no geeks either.
I think apt-get install kernel-image-2.6.3 (debian didn't have 2.6.4 as I just checked) is much easier than the Windows method (and even easier with Synaptic). However, it's not without its problems.
You are using an unreleased distro (testing or unstable) or non-official repositories (backports.org). So you are on your own. I'd hope SuSE, Mandrake et al. have this sorted out when they release with 2.6
And GNU/Linux as a system is still more problematic for regular users by far
In my experience, it depends. E.g., it's highly problematic for my mom that she has to have her machine reinstalled every few of months because she somehow managed to infect it or it stopped working for some unknown reason. It's also not user friendly that when she tried to watch an.avi somebody gave to her, Media Player popped up, but instead of playing the movie it says in hard-to-read letters in its status bar "error downloading codec". Similar for many.movs with QT. All those play without a hitch on my machine. When I bought my nephew a force-feedback joystick "Designed for XP", the driver install destroyed the system. Since I don't do Windows support (I have no idea about Win whatsoever and couldn't help anyway. Besides, I get angry trying to fix stuff in Win), my sis called over a friend of hers who is a CS guy with years of experience implementing Windows stuff for Siemens. After 2 hours his verdict was "reinstall". Cool.
Slashdot Mirror
Where can I get Quick time Pro for my Linux box? Thanks in advance for the link
Free as in freedom. I don't think apple counts. Play again
If you use nautilus: it does not rely on the extension, but sniffs. If it misidentifies the type, it's a bug in the database
So, the existence of gconf-edit is a mystery
Well, it's called Configuration Editor in the Applications menu, so it's not _that mysterious. I see your point though
put a button that launches gconf-edit from the configuration dialog or something to that effect
Sounds resonable to me. Ma be file a whishlist bug in bugzilla.gnome.org?
Well, as far as I am concerned, the setting should be in BOTH places
How does that solve the problem of having everything cluttered with options? Frankly, I _hate KDE's control center
How are people supposed to adopt the OS when a setting as simple as this is only easy to find for "advanced users"?
The reasoning of the gnome devs is that only advanced users would need it, and others are better served with spatial mode. Whether this is true has been debated for months on the gnome mailing lists, and everybody who cares had his chance to have his voice heard
Point taken. My 15 levels comment was targetted at home dirs. I don't know what you'd do with nautilus in the paths you gave. I think we can agree that the nautilus design and the Gnome desktop as a whole is targetted to average users. People who have any business mucking around in Oracle install dirs should be able to cahnge a gconf setting.
The configuration for how a thing behaves should be changeable on THAT thing, not somewhere else. It's just basic usability!
The gnome developers decided otherwise, and there are good reasons for it, too. Case in point: the config options of Sawfish. The gnome devs say it's good usability to have the options in the app that the target user would need. It doesn't help the target user if he can't find his options b/c of a gazillion obsure options hide them. So the gnome devs decided the have all advanced options in a different app, where the advanced user has no prob finding them.
I guess both ways have some arguments going for them
It's an incredibly simple requirement: profess your faith in Jesus as your savior, accept the gift of redemption offered by his death (and proven valid by his resurrection). That's it. Nothing else to it [...] There's no ass-kissing involved
Um, this _is_ ass-kissing
Learn how to use it. Use Shift-doubleclick or middle-doubleclick to automatically close the parent. Alternatively, go wherever you want, then use "Close all parents" from the menu. As I said in my other reply, if you insist on having 15 levels of hirarchy, spatial nautilus is probably not for you, and _I_ think, 15 levels is braindead. 15 levels are terrible to navigate in a browser too, because you will scroll off to the right all the time. /is/ an option, there is a big fat "Browse filesystem" button on the panel, or you can rightclick a folder and choose "browse", or you can check a simple option in gconf-editor. And if you try to tell me that somebody who is used to manage 15 levels of hierarchy in a tree view has a prob with gconf-editor, I don't believe you.
Spatial
Gnome had to get rid of options to reach a sane base, from where good options can and will be added in a sane way. IMO, e.g. KDE is an unwieldy mess, and when they will reach a point where the'll have to make the same tough decisions as Gnome had. I'm glad Gnome has it already behind it.
BTW, one argument against useless options that Havoc made originally, but which is forgotten now all the time: there are not only interface complexity costs, but code complexity costs plus debugging issues. Many bugs happpen only in some obscure combination of 100 options, which can never be sensibly reported or reproduced.
I am confused. If you don't open a new window for each folder, a file manager can't be spatial. Also, there /are/ easy to find browser options for nautilus. Personally, I find spatial nautilus convenient for the stuff in my home dir, and would browse if I had to go out of ~. But actually, "normal" users rarely do that, and I use the CLI for it
No it's a lie as has been pointed out tens of times in the replies. There's a) a button on the panel "browse filesystem" b) rightclick a folder and seelct "browse ..." c) the gconf setting is not obscure and IMHO gconf-editor does not resemble regedit one bit. While registry keys are not documeted and have cryptic names, in gconf-editor I go to Applications -> nautilus and find a documented setting
If you read the Ars Technica links given, your learn that the Win95 way has nothing to do with a spatial file manager
After writing my previous comment, I saw that you did try it, but not a lot it seems:
With the new Nautilus, getting to some files could cause 15 stinken windows to open
Use middle-click, it will close the parent. Use shortcuts. Set it to use browser mode in gconf. Etc., lots of options. And frankly, I consider 15 levels deep file hierarchies as braindead as you find nautilus
Windows' "Open folder in new window" has nothing to do with a spatial file manager whatsoever. This issue has been beaten to death on the gnome mailing lists during nautilus discussions. If you want to judge nautilus, try it. Don't draw your conclusions from the totally broken Windows way
But FreeBSD is a cathedral, no bazaar. And IIRC the main argument against using CVS for Linux was that it is not up to the task in the highly distributed and diconnected environment which is Linux development
If another isn't released by this July, that'll be two years
Which still only means that there were 2 years between releaeses, not that it's delayed for 2 years. Unless you suggest that initially they had planned to release Sarge on the same day Woody was released.
Personally I run Woody + backports on my desktop, and I really could care less whether I have the latest release of boa or some such. For stuff where it matters, http://www.backports.org is great, and Gnome and KDE also have backports available. Stable + backports is the perfect combination for me, and I hope Debian will make official backports in the future
Esp. since BMW has also used the M1, M3, M5 names for their top sports models
Flamebait or not. The prob is it's incoherent drivel.
but at the time Qt wasn't Free enough to suit certain people
No offense, I agree with your post, but this one stuck out. I think with hindsight one really has to admit that "certain people" were absolutely right, and I shudder to think what Linux's position would be like today, if the only Desktop Environment usable by the masses depended on a thoroughly unfree toolkit (as Qt undisputedly was at the time). I am still waiting for one of the lead KDE guys to come forward and, looking at the FSF and Gnome guys, say, "Well you know, you were right. We would have digged Linux into a hole if we had our way".
Stop spreading misinformation/lies and read what Stallman really says. He argues that GNU, a free reimplementation of Unix, was the idea of the FSF, and all the groundwork (both in tools and in mindshare) was laid by them. And that it still is the GNU system, even if Linux is currently used as it's kernel. The GNU system drops the "/Linux" when it runs on Hurd
Where have you been? It's been out for ~ 2 weeks, /. even had an article. Me? Page 76.
Well my Debian woody was able to mount my digicam as a USB mass storage device, while Win 2000 wanted a driver. So, Win 2000 is now "F&*ked before it even gets off the ground"?
Pagestream DTP is done in GTK 2.x
You can do this, it's called upgrading windows. It takes about an hour, requires 2 mouse clicks, and doesn't install "over" your old one, but upgrades it as necessary
You are comparing apples and oranges. What you describe here is equivalent to an upgrade from SuSE 8.2 to 9.0 or Debian Woody to Sarge. These also upgrade (not install over), are tested and work.
The whle kernel upgrade issues exists only for people who do it manually on their old distros, which would be equivalent to downloading the ntkernel.dll of SP and shoehorning it into 2000 manually.
I think it's much easier to do debian apt-get update then apt-get upgrade if you ask me
.avi somebody gave to her, Media Player popped up, but instead of playing the movie it says in hard-to-read letters in its status bar "error downloading codec". Similar for many .movs with QT. All those play without a hitch on my machine.
Same here. And I did set up a few people with Debian, and they all have no problem with it whatsoever. Not Aunt Tillies, but no geeks either.
I think apt-get install kernel-image-2.6.3 (debian didn't have 2.6.4 as I just checked) is much easier than the Windows method (and even easier with Synaptic). However, it's not without its problems.
You are using an unreleased distro (testing or unstable) or non-official repositories (backports.org). So you are on your own. I'd hope SuSE, Mandrake et al. have this sorted out when they release with 2.6
And GNU/Linux as a system is still more problematic for regular users by far
In my experience, it depends. E.g., it's highly problematic for my mom that she has to have her machine reinstalled every few of months because she somehow managed to infect it or it stopped working for some unknown reason.
It's also not user friendly that when she tried to watch an
When I bought my nephew a force-feedback joystick "Designed for XP", the driver install destroyed the system. Since I don't do Windows support (I have no idea about Win whatsoever and couldn't help anyway. Besides, I get angry trying to fix stuff in Win), my sis called over a friend of hers who is a CS guy with years of experience implementing Windows stuff for Siemens. After 2 hours his verdict was "reinstall". Cool.