Doesn't matter. The whole point of a Criminal prosection (which is basically what this is) is that it punishes the 'guilty party'. People see that punishment, realise they don't want to be on the recieving end of that punishment, and dont break that law.
That's pretty much how criminal justice has worked since, well, ever. Shoot the scapegoat, watch the rats scurry.
It's quite possible that this has set DRM back several years - at least with regards to CD's themselves. It's not possible to prevent CD's from playing back or bieng copied in a PC without installing additional software - that's part of what makes a CD what it is. The legal actions now taking place *should* only be the tip of the iceberg.
Now that people have seen the potential for software based DRM to cause damage to their machines, people are going to be wary about it. People are already boycotting cd's that have copy-protections because those cd's won't work with their Ipods, for instance, and thats only going to spread further as a result of the mainstream press picking up on this.
And when people in general think something is 'bad', politicians always sieze on it. Don't be too suprised if you start seing attempts to push through legislation that limits the rights of content-publishers with regards to what they can get away with.
Heck, Australia has already made rulings against DRM - they've rejected a lawsuit filed by Sony against mod-chips, on the basis that people have bought their software legally (although overseas) and as such should be able to use that software. Without restriction.
About 2 hours old now. And yup, It even touches on the rootkits own copyright infringments.
Estimates the damage caused to SONY's bottom line in the tens of millions for this one incident, not counting the pending legal action taking place in Cali, NY, and now Texas.
Wrong kit mate.
You're thinking of MediaMax - which is outright illegal here in the UK (Computers Misuse Act, Section 1). MM installs and runs components designed to limit access to the CD before showing the EULA. Declining the EULA doesn't remove them, either.
The F4I cd's are a 'little' nicer about it - they don't install the rootkit 'til after you've clicked through. Still a pain in the fricking arse tho.
Slashdot requires me to wait longer between hitting the 'reply' button and posting my comment. It has been 16 seconds since I hit reply. Therefore, I'n going to link to some random pictures.
Bleh
I just find it odd that they (EMI) want to charge more for a poor-quality online download of an album (without distribution costs, because Apple pays that) than they do for the physical copy with packing, artwork, et al.
Still, A lot of new artists are starting to self-publish or go through lesser known labels like CD-baby, so it may be moot in a couple of years anyway.:/
It doesn't appear he was even charged with spamming
There are no laws against spamming in the UK - the Computers Misuse Act, while broad enough to catch most offences, doesn't quite cover spam.
Hence, 'tis currently impossible to charge someone in the UK for simply spamming. You can, however, take civil action against them for any damage/expenses they incur on your network.
There was a suggestion to use transponders in that way in order to switch to a pay-by-the-mile taxation system a while back, and the political fallout was enormous, due to security issues. ID fraud is problematic enough, without someone duping your transponder signal.
Cameras, on the other hand, leave a trace. The image can be compared against the car registered with that number, which means you can eliminate false positives to a large degree. That in turn means that you can reimplement the system optically with minimal chance of fraud.
Re:Was the construction of this software illegal?
on
Bad Day To Be Sony
·
· Score: 1
Construction? Nope. You can write any software you want to - the Computers Misuse Act 1990 was designed with research in mind, and is fairly lax (whilst at the same time being broad enough to catch most offenses, SPAM aside.)
What *was* illegal was actually deploying such software without the permission of the computer owners (modifying their software setup, violation of section 1) - and according to the wording of the CMA, it doesn't matter where in the world it happens.
Which brings us to the question : Is F4I liable for Sony's use/misuse of their software? I'm not sure what the answer to that question is. On the one hand, F4I knew that this is what the software was going to be used for, so you could easily argue conspiracy. On the other hand, you can say the same thing about the arms industry, yet they've managed to avoid any litigation from the government.
Bieng a small body that doesn't have any ties to the government, I'd imagine the conspiracy card would be played.
While I'm not concerned about wether it's legal or not (Sony will argue that same 'fair use' clause that they're trying to demolish), I think one of the major differences here is that Viruses and Spyware don't serve legitimate purposes.
Lame, on the other hand, is used in all kinds of software and by all kinds of people for legitimate reasons. If you're scanning for and disabling the engine on someones work PC for instance, you can end up crippling a musicians recording studio that they use for their own work, or breaking someones home video studio or something.
Legal, yes, but totally irresponsible all the same.
I appreciate the difference between pirates and homebrew developers, but what I'm reffering to in my previous post is neither.
A lot of people bought Xbox's and modified them for use as cheap fileservers, distributed computing solutions, renderfarms, and so on and so on, with no intention of ever using them to play games of any kind. Microsoft lost a lot of money on those sales, and are trying hard to prevent a repeat of that.
If they start developing software for this kind of thing (lets face it, software will take advantage of this kind of thing before mainstream film does) then there's a serious incentive for people to start investing into other stereoscopic projectors.
Hell, anyone remember that 3d setup that was projecting onto the walls that/. reported on a while back? This could be the baby-step that gets us towards that kind of setup.
with all the protections that MS is supposedly putting into the 360, homebrew might be impossible on the new one. Remember : M$ made a loss on the individual XBOX sales, so when someone bought it for purposes other than playing the xbox games, M$ lost money overall on that system. They want to avoid the same happening this time around:|
The thing about expired patents on the console itself is that there is not longer any reason that homebrew developers couldn't distribute their own games on the bloody thing - something they won't be able to do on the revolution.
Sure, the NES isn't exactly a powerhouse, but get some old roms together (smb3?) with some blanks and you might be able to get the kids interested in homebrew. Either that or you can just faff around yourself:P
Perhaps. No HDTV support means that titles shouldn't need as much time to be spent on art assets, which in theory means that development times could be a little shorter and the games cheaper as a result.
Sorry, but sonys rootkit is actually causing damage to machines - that damage results in lost productivity and that loss in productivity ultimately costs money.
Add to that Viruses and compromised security, and you have a problem that probably COSTS the economy far more than it benefits Sony. What, pray, gives them the right to blithely inflict that kind of damage and then BLAME THEIR CUSTOMERS FOR IT?
It's also worth mentioning that while piracy is a crime, the numbers that the RIAA keep giving for the economic damage are known to be false.
Final question - how does stopping piracy (something known to be fruitless anyway) give Sony the right to break the law itself? That's like saying that I can wreck your car because you might have used it to speed, or shoot your kid because he/she might be a graffiti artist.
It's a tad trickier than that. F4I is based in britain, and has no corperate presence in the US. As a result, any action would be long winded - in the extreme. I'm keeping an ear out for any word from the Crown Prosecution Service - but it normally takes them some time to start moving on these things.
It is, however, one of many times the quote has been, erm, quoted.
The Quote comes from an interview with Thomans Hesse, conducted by NPR radio. I'm not sure on the exact link, but i believe it may be this interview. (current machine has no sound, can't confirm).
It's been on the BBC throughout, and has hit Fox, the Financial Times (UK), the Washington Post, the New York Times, Msnbc, Boston Globe, etc etc etc.
And yes, CNN as well. Took it's bloody time, 'tho. linky - interesting to note that it's in the business section instead of the tech section or front page.
FYI : They (the media cartels) *already* have a 'tax' on the sale of blank media - CD's, cassette tapes, you name it. I don't think they're getting a cut of the money from H.D.D's or MP3 players - but you may recall seeing an article on slashdot a few weeks ago where one of their CEO's was raving about not getting a cut from Ipod sales.
Of course, although they reasoned that it would support the artists, we all know that when the cartels are involved, the artists get zip.
I don't consider CD's dead, by the way. They've become too commonplace and there's too much history on them for them to simply die - in the same way that LP's are still popular despite their age. The media itself still has life in it - we just need to start buying from indie's and let the big five collapse under their own weight. Heck, music from indies tends to be both better and cheaper anyway.
in fact, there's *nothing* in there that suggests on any reasonable reading that a damn *rootkit* will be installed on the user's machine.
You've got to remember that most people are not technically proficient - 'a rootkit is just software, right? Well, the EULA mentions installing software, So ah guess ah let them...'
I'm not trying to defend SONY or anything, just pointing out that they *might* be able to get away with it. What they *WONT* be able to get away with imo, is the outright lie.
However, the SOFTWARE will not be used at any time to collect any personal information from you, whether stored on YOUR COMPUTER or otherwise. - the software attempts to connect to two servers every time you use it to play a CD. It passes those servers an ID number (believed to be the CD's ID) via http - which means they also have logs of your IP, when you listen to what, and by extrapolation how often you listen to those CD's.
It also attempts to download banners and so on, so there's quite a bit of infomation that SONY could get hold of via the software.
And on top of that, they get personal infomation (data on your system configuration, and your email address which they can use for marketing) if you try to uninstall the bloody thing through them. So yeah, it's a pretty serious misrepresentation, and that's what they're gonna get nailed on, methinks.
But, as always, IANAL, so i could be off the mark on this myself.
Slashdot Mirror
Doesn't matter. The whole point of a Criminal prosection (which is basically what this is) is that it punishes the 'guilty party'. People see that punishment, realise they don't want to be on the recieving end of that punishment, and dont break that law.
That's pretty much how criminal justice has worked since, well, ever. Shoot the scapegoat, watch the rats scurry.
It's quite possible that this has set DRM back several years - at least with regards to CD's themselves. It's not possible to prevent CD's from playing back or bieng copied in a PC without installing additional software - that's part of what makes a CD what it is. The legal actions now taking place *should* only be the tip of the iceberg.
Now that people have seen the potential for software based DRM to cause damage to their machines, people are going to be wary about it. People are already boycotting cd's that have copy-protections because those cd's won't work with their Ipods, for instance, and thats only going to spread further as a result of the mainstream press picking up on this.
And when people in general think something is 'bad', politicians always sieze on it. Don't be too suprised if you start seing attempts to push through legislation that limits the rights of content-publishers with regards to what they can get away with.
Heck, Australia has already made rulings against DRM - they've rejected a lawsuit filed by Sony against mod-chips, on the basis that people have bought their software legally (although overseas) and as such should be able to use that software. Without restriction.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4456970.stm
About 2 hours old now. And yup, It even touches on the rootkits own copyright infringments.
Estimates the damage caused to SONY's bottom line in the tens of millions for this one incident, not counting the pending legal action taking place in Cali, NY, and now Texas.
Wrong kit mate.
You're thinking of MediaMax - which is outright illegal here in the UK (Computers Misuse Act, Section 1). MM installs and runs components designed to limit access to the CD before showing the EULA. Declining the EULA doesn't remove them, either.
The F4I cd's are a 'little' nicer about it - they don't install the rootkit 'til after you've clicked through. Still a pain in the fricking arse tho.
Any opinion of BBC News 24?
Slashdot requires me to wait longer between hitting the 'reply' button and posting my comment. It has been 16 seconds since I hit reply. Therefore, I'n going to link to some random pictures. Bleh
I just find it odd that they (EMI) want to charge more for a poor-quality online download of an album (without distribution costs, because Apple pays that) than they do for the physical copy with packing, artwork, et al.
:/
Still, A lot of new artists are starting to self-publish or go through lesser known labels like CD-baby, so it may be moot in a couple of years anyway.
It doesn't appear he was even charged with spamming
There are no laws against spamming in the UK - the Computers Misuse Act, while broad enough to catch most offences, doesn't quite cover spam.
Hence, 'tis currently impossible to charge someone in the UK for simply spamming. You can, however, take civil action against them for any damage/expenses they incur on your network.
There was a suggestion to use transponders in that way in order to switch to a pay-by-the-mile taxation system a while back, and the political fallout was enormous, due to security issues. ID fraud is problematic enough, without someone duping your transponder signal.
Cameras, on the other hand, leave a trace. The image can be compared against the car registered with that number, which means you can eliminate false positives to a large degree. That in turn means that you can reimplement the system optically with minimal chance of fraud.
Construction? Nope. You can write any software you want to - the Computers Misuse Act 1990 was designed with research in mind, and is fairly lax (whilst at the same time being broad enough to catch most offenses, SPAM aside.)
What *was* illegal was actually deploying such software without the permission of the computer owners (modifying their software setup, violation of section 1) - and according to the wording of the CMA, it doesn't matter where in the world it happens.
Which brings us to the question : Is F4I liable for Sony's use/misuse of their software? I'm not sure what the answer to that question is. On the one hand, F4I knew that this is what the software was going to be used for, so you could easily argue conspiracy. On the other hand, you can say the same thing about the arms industry, yet they've managed to avoid any litigation from the government. Bieng a small body that doesn't have any ties to the government, I'd imagine the conspiracy card would be played.
It's just another troll. We all know slashhash's love for duping - that's half of what makes it fun. :D
While I'm not concerned about wether it's legal or not (Sony will argue that same 'fair use' clause that they're trying to demolish), I think one of the major differences here is that Viruses and Spyware don't serve legitimate purposes.
Lame, on the other hand, is used in all kinds of software and by all kinds of people for legitimate reasons. If you're scanning for and disabling the engine on someones work PC for instance, you can end up crippling a musicians recording studio that they use for their own work, or breaking someones home video studio or something.
Legal, yes, but totally irresponsible all the same.
Umm, what's stopping you from blocking the cookie? :)
:/
Slow down cowboy! - Shaddup, slashhash.
could be the first people in the world to have cured himself of the deadly HIV virus.
Apparently, the Mutiple Personality Syndrome didn't like it moving in on his turf.
Sorry for the delayed response.
I appreciate the difference between pirates and homebrew developers, but what I'm reffering to in my previous post is neither.
A lot of people bought Xbox's and modified them for use as cheap fileservers, distributed computing solutions, renderfarms, and so on and so on, with no intention of ever using them to play games of any kind. Microsoft lost a lot of money on those sales, and are trying hard to prevent a repeat of that.
If they start developing software for this kind of thing (lets face it, software will take advantage of this kind of thing before mainstream film does) then there's a serious incentive for people to start investing into other stereoscopic projectors.
/. reported on a while back? This could be the baby-step that gets us towards that kind of setup.
Hell, anyone remember that 3d setup that was projecting onto the walls that
with all the protections that MS is supposedly putting into the 360, homebrew might be impossible on the new one. Remember : M$ made a loss on the individual XBOX sales, so when someone bought it for purposes other than playing the xbox games, M$ lost money overall on that system. They want to avoid the same happening this time around :|
The thing about expired patents on the console itself is that there is not longer any reason that homebrew developers couldn't distribute their own games on the bloody thing - something they won't be able to do on the revolution.
:P
Sure, the NES isn't exactly a powerhouse, but get some old roms together (smb3?) with some blanks and you might be able to get the kids interested in homebrew. Either that or you can just faff around yourself
dunno about the US tho'.
Perhaps. No HDTV support means that titles shouldn't need as much time to be spent on art assets, which in theory means that development times could be a little shorter and the games cheaper as a result.
:Z
Not that retailers will care.
Sorry, but sonys rootkit is actually causing damage to machines - that damage results in lost productivity and that loss in productivity ultimately costs money.
Add to that Viruses and compromised security, and you have a problem that probably COSTS the economy far more than it benefits Sony. What, pray, gives them the right to blithely inflict that kind of damage and then BLAME THEIR CUSTOMERS FOR IT?
It's also worth mentioning that while piracy is a crime, the numbers that the RIAA keep giving for the economic damage are known to be false.
Final question - how does stopping piracy (something known to be fruitless anyway) give Sony the right to break the law itself? That's like saying that I can wreck your car because you might have used it to speed, or shoot your kid because he/she might be a graffiti artist.
There are limits.
It's a tad trickier than that. F4I is based in britain, and has no corperate presence in the US. As a result, any action would be long winded - in the extreme. I'm keeping an ear out for any word from the Crown Prosecution Service - but it normally takes them some time to start moving on these things.
They like to be, y'know, thorough.
It is, however, one of many times the quote has been, erm, quoted.
The Quote comes from an interview with Thomans Hesse, conducted by NPR radio.
I'm not sure on the exact link, but i believe it may be this interview. (current machine has no sound, can't confirm).
It's been on the BBC throughout, and has hit Fox, the Financial Times (UK), the Washington Post, the New York Times, Msnbc, Boston Globe, etc etc etc.
And yes, CNN as well. Took it's bloody time, 'tho.
linky - interesting to note that it's in the business section instead of the tech section or front page.
FYI : They (the media cartels) *already* have a 'tax' on the sale of blank media - CD's, cassette tapes, you name it. I don't think they're getting a cut of the money from H.D.D's or MP3 players - but you may recall seeing an article on slashdot a few weeks ago where one of their CEO's was raving about not getting a cut from Ipod sales.
Of course, although they reasoned that it would support the artists, we all know that when the cartels are involved, the artists get zip.
I don't consider CD's dead, by the way. They've become too commonplace and there's too much history on them for them to simply die - in the same way that LP's are still popular despite their age. The media itself still has life in it - we just need to start buying from indie's and let the big five collapse under their own weight. Heck, music from indies tends to be both better and cheaper anyway.
in fact, there's *nothing* in there that suggests on any reasonable reading that a damn *rootkit* will be installed on the user's machine.
You've got to remember that most people are not technically proficient - 'a rootkit is just software, right? Well, the EULA mentions installing software, So ah guess ah let them...'
I'm not trying to defend SONY or anything, just pointing out that they *might* be able to get away with it. What they *WONT* be able to get away with imo, is the outright lie.
However, the SOFTWARE will not be used at any time to collect any personal information from you, whether stored on YOUR COMPUTER or otherwise. - the software attempts to connect to two servers every time you use it to play a CD. It passes those servers an ID number (believed to be the CD's ID) via http - which means they also have logs of your IP, when you listen to what, and by extrapolation how often you listen to those CD's.
It also attempts to download banners and so on, so there's quite a bit of infomation that SONY could get hold of via the software.
And on top of that, they get personal infomation (data on your system configuration, and your email address which they can use for marketing) if you try to uninstall the bloody thing through them. So yeah, it's a pretty serious misrepresentation, and that's what they're gonna get nailed on, methinks.
But, as always, IANAL, so i could be off the mark on this myself.