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California Class Action Suit Sony Over Rootkit DRM

Posted by samzenpus on from the what-else dept.

carre4 writes "Lawyers in California have filed a class-action lawsuit against Sony and a second one may be filed today in New York. The lawsuit was filed Nov. 1 in Superior Court for the County of Los Angeles by Vernon, CA attorney Alan Himmelfarb. It asks the court to prevent Sony from selling additional CDs protected by the anti-piracy software, and seeks monetary damages for California consumers who purchased them. The suit alleges that Sony's software violates at least three California statutes, including the "Consumer Legal Remedies Act," which governs unfair and/or deceptive trade acts; and the "Consumer Protection against Computer Spyware Act," which prohibits -- among other things -- software that takes control over the user's computer or misrepresents the user's ability or right to uninstall the program. The suit also alleges that Sony's actions violate the California Unfair Competition law, which allows public prosecutors and private citizens to file lawsuits to protect businesses and consumers from unfair business practices. EFF has released a list of rootkit affected CD's and Slashdot user xtracto also has a list."

508 comments

  1. I understand the first two... by RandoX · · Score: 5, Insightful

    But how did Sony's actions prevent people from suing? Was there a clause in the EULA that prohibited it? Since they're getting their asses sued off anyway, can't the judge throw this one right out?

    1. Re:I understand the first two... by KitesWorld · · Score: 5, Informative

      From the EULA :

      NO SONY BMG PARTY SHALL BE LIABLE FOR ANY LOSS OR DAMAGE, EITHER DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR OTHERWISE, ARISING OUT OF THE BREACH OF ANY EXPRESS OR IMPLIED WARRANTY, TERM OR CONDITION, BREACH OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT LIABILITY MISREPRESENTATION, FAILURE OF ANY REMEDY TO ACHIEVE ITS ESSENTIAL PURPOSE OR ANY OTHER LEGAL THEORY ARISING OUT OF, OR RELATED TO, THIS EULA OR YOUR USE OF ANY OF THE LICENSED MATERIALS (SUCH DAMAGES INCLUDE, BUT ARE NOT LIMITED TO, LOSS OF PROFITS, LOSS OF REVENUE, LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF USE OF THE PRODUCT OR ANY ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT, DOWN TIME AND USER'S TIME), EVEN IF THE SONY BMG PARTY CONCERNED HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. IN ANY CASE, THE ENTIRE LIABILITY OF THE SONY BMG PARTIES, COLLECTIVELY, UNDER THE PROVISIONS OF THIS EULA SHALL BE LIMITED TO FIVE US DOLLARS (US $5.00). SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OR LIMITATION OF DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES IN CERTAIN INSTANCES, SO THE ABOVE EXCLUSION MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU. THIS ARTICLE WILL NOT APPLY ONLY WHEN AND TO THE EXTENT THAT APPLICABLE LAW SPECIFICALLY REQUIRES LIABILITY DESPITE THE FOREGOING DISCLAIMER, EXCLUSION AND LIMITATION.

      And this little bit too :
      Article 10. GOVERNING LAW AND WAIVER OF TRIAL BY JURY 1. THE VALIDITY, INTERPRETATION AND LEGAL EFFECT OF THIS EULA SHALL BE GOVERNED BY, AND CONSTRUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH, THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK APPLICABLE TO CONTRACTS ENTERED INTO AND PERFORMED ENTIRELY WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK (WITHOUT GIVING EFFECT TO ANY CONFLICT OF LAW PRINCIPLES UNDER NEW YORK LAW). THE NEW YORK COURTS (STATE AND FEDERAL), SHALL HAVE SOLE JURISDICTION OF ANY CONTROVERSIES REGARDING THIS AGREEMENT; ANY ACTION OR OTHER PROCEEDING WHICH INVOLVES SUCH A CONTROVERSY SHALL BE BROUGHT IN THOSE COURTS IN NEW YORK COUNTY AND NOT ELSEWHERE. THE PARTIES WAIVE ANY AND ALL OBJECTIONS TO VENUE IN THOSE COURTS AND HEREBY SUBMIT TO THE JURISDICTION OF THOSE COURTS. 2. YOU HEREBY WAIVE ALL RIGHTS AND/OR ENTITLEMENT TO TRIAL BY JURY IN CONNECTION WITH ANY DISPUTE THAT ARISES OUT OF OR RELATES IN ANY WAY TO THIS EULA OR THE SOFTWARE.

      So yeah, they tried to get out of their corperate liabilities.

    2. Re:I understand the first two... by Skater · · Score: 5, Informative

      Yeah, but companies always put that in. Ever go to the hospital and sign a liability waiver saying you won't sue them if the doctor makes a mistake? Malpractice suits still happen (and are won) even though the patient signed that waiver.

      I believe the term is "exculpatory", and the way my legal environment professor explained it was this: "If clauses like that worked, we'd all be driving around with signs on the front of our cars that say, 'Not responsible if I hit you'." (IANAL, of course.)

    3. Re:I understand the first two... by canuck57 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      can't the judge throw this one right out?

      He probably could throw it out but I hope the opposite happens. Toss a big fine and bad publicity to Sony for this. DRM went too far with a root kit and two wrongs don't make a right. Sony is going to have to learn this. But the worst may yet come for Sony, I for one will no longer buy Sony products.

      And of all things, to remove the root kit you have to run an Active-X control from an untrusted site. Just what we in the security business tell people for good reason not to do.

      So I support dragging Sony through the mud on this.

    4. Re:I understand the first two... by MECC · · Score: 4, Informative

      I had a law prof once who pointed out that waivers from liability are very limited in their ability to protect from litigation. If Sony broke the law, they broke the law. No EULA will protect them from being hauled into court.

      --
      "We are all geniuses when we dream"
      - E.M. Cioran
    5. Re:I understand the first two... by swissfondue · · Score: 1
      You are right. The worst for Sony is the bad publicity. Sony spends millions of dollars on advertising to build up an image (cool, high tech, reliable, avantgarde) and then they negate all the effort through bad publicity such as the roolkit issue.

      If Sony continues like this, they'le end up with a Microsoft-like image, which at least on Slashdot is rather unfavorable.

      --
      Rubies and Pearls are not what you think.
    6. Re:I understand the first two... by strider44 · · Score: 1

      I think you might have misread the summary.

      The suit also alleges that Sony's actions violate the California Unfair Competition law, which allows public prosecutors and private citizens to file lawsuits to protect businesses and consumers from unfair business practices.

      It doesn't complain that Sony prevents people from sueing, they are just sueing under a law that prevents unfair business practices.

    7. Re:I understand the first two... by Hinhule · · Score: 2

      But why are these texts always in CAPS? Makes it very hard to read.

    8. Re:I understand the first two... by jimbolauski · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Lawyers like to pile extra stuff on just in case they can convince the judge of wrong doing. The EULA has a clause that attempts to protect sony from their liability, but fortatnly most good lawyers can argue that the EULA was not disclosed before the purchase, so the EULA is just there to discourage/intimidate customers from suing sony. Sony better hope that this issue dosn't get put before a jury because it will be real easy to scare them into thinking sony was being malicious.

      --
      Knowledge = Power
      P= W/t
      t=Money
      Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
    9. Re:I understand the first two... by Raumkraut · · Score: 5, Funny

      I think you just answered your own question.

    10. Re:I understand the first two... by Lisandro · · Score: 1

      Pardon my ignorance, but does this EULA ever shows up while the rootkit gets installed? Or do they sell CDs with EULAs now?

    11. Re:I understand the first two... by Pieroxy · · Score: 1

      The question I am asking myself is: Why doesn't anyone sue Sony under the DMCA? That have clearly and alledgedly broken the very rule thay have fought so hard to make a law of: Helping people to circumvent a copy-protection device !!! For crying oyut loud, they must fall for that at least!

      If anything, that would make them think about how utterly stupid these laws are.

      --
      Write boring code, not shiny code!
    12. Re:I understand the first two... by Libby+Liberal · · Score: 5, Informative

      IANAL, but I worked for one for more than seven years. I haven't the training or the interest to provide legal advice, but here we go:

      Exculpatory/Hold Harmless/Indemnity agreement is/are the correct term(s).

      Exculpatory agreements are those contracts that attempt to create a pretext of blamelessness when a party might otherwise be typically held liable for damages in the event of some sort of failing on their part.

      They're generally challenged at a state level and taken before the state supreme court. Generally speaking, the track record of such agreements is dismal. Wisconsin, for example, has recently heard some six or so cases involving exculpatory agreements, including the one provided along with Atkins. In each case, the court ruled that the agreements were unenforcable. Here's the Supreme Court's overturn of the trial court's finding of indemnity:

      http://www.gklaw.com/publication.cfm?publication_i d=360

      They're not always ruled unenforceable, but because they tend to be so overbroad, they're highly subject to being ruled that way. Generally speaking, this type of agreement is used mainly to frighten people away from lawsuits. The handful of people who will actually challenge them and the cost they create for a company is usually much smaller than if the company actually had to pay out when they did some harm.

      --
      I voted for Bob Dole once. That was the smartest thing I ever did since he lost.
    13. Re:I understand the first two... by pendor17 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Isn't that (making it hard to read) exactly the point? I think that many companies write their EULA so that you don't WANT to read it, and writing in CAPS (which many people construe as "shouting") is certainly a "turn-off". In much the same way, many manufacturers setup their rebate programs so that you forget to send in the rebates in by the deadline. After all, this is capitalism - a corporation like Sony isn't looking out for YOU...

    14. Re:I understand the first two... by Shakrai · · Score: 3, Funny

      I believe the term is "exculpatory", and the way my legal environment professor explained it was this: "If clauses like that worked, we'd all be driving around with signs on the front of our cars that say, 'Not responsible if I hit you'." (IANAL, of course.)

      So what your telling me is that my bumper sticker that says "If you can read this I'm about to lock my brakes" won't shield me from legal liability?

      God damn it!

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    15. Re:I understand the first two... by deroby · · Score: 3, Funny

      Such splendid use of the word "CAPITALism" =)

      --
      If there is one thing to be learned on slashdot, it has to be sarcasm.
    16. Re:I understand the first two... by utnow · · Score: 1

      generally the doctors "can't" (in theory) be held responsible if they make a mistake... malpractice covers gross negligence... taking part in a procedure for which they're not trained... ignoring something obvious to a doctor of his training... butchering someone... that sort of thing.

      Now that's the idea.... in reality people just sue if they wake up and are still alive (and the family sues if they aren't).

      Does it bother anyone that doctors call what they do a 'practice'? lol

    17. Re:I understand the first two... by Class+Act+Dynamo · · Score: 1

      That reminds me of those people with large flat bed trucks. When they have been hauling concrete blocks or gravel, there are always some small pieces left over when they drop off the load. These trucks frequently have a sign saying they are not responsible of gravel comes off the truck and hits your windshield. It's total BS. It would be like walking around in any situation with a sign saying you are not responsible for your own carelessness or malicious action.

      --
      My other computer is a Jacquard loom.
    18. Re:I understand the first two... by Drachemorder · · Score: 3, Interesting
      If you have autorun on, the EULA pops up when you insert the CD. If you agree to it, the rootkit gets installed (along with all the other Sony audio player stuff and what not).

      This, of course, leaves open the question of what happens if you DON'T have autorun on, or you decline the EULA and play the CD via other means.

    19. Re:I understand the first two... by fireweaver · · Score: 2, Funny

      deroby (568773) wrote:

      "Such splendid use of the word "CAPITALism" =)"

      But what Sony has done might be called CRAPitalism.

    20. Re:I understand the first two... by DrSkwid · · Score: 1

      When it comes to the real world, no-one even understands what a rootkit is.

      Joe Public that hates Microsoft is because their computer crashes not because of Microsoft's behaviour in the marketplace (ignoring that the two are linked).

      Hardly anyone will feel different about Sony because of this. Even I don't care!!

      --
      There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
    21. Re:I understand the first two... by mrchaotica · · Score: 1
      DRM went too far with a root kit
      DRM and rootkits inherently "go too far," by merely existing.
      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    22. Re:I understand the first two... by timeOday · · Score: 4, Interesting
      That's right kids, you can't get away with murder simply by granting yourself the right to do so in some fine print legalize.

      I think it's foolish to let companies write (nearly) arbitrary contracts for public commerce. It's widely accepted that non-lawyers are unfit to interpret contracts (that why we make fun of people who ask legal questions on Slashdot), and yet the dozens of different contracts you can't go a day without consenting to are supposed to be binding. It's unworkable. I think everyday commerce with private individuals should be governed by a small, standardized set of contracts established by law. Then allow companies to select which they want for each product or service.

    23. Re:I understand the first two... by justin12345 · · Score: 4, Funny

      I once had to hack together a TOS/EULA for a small net company. I really wanted to stick "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US" in there but I chickened out. Its too bad, I later found out that that is something people do. From Blogger's TOS:

      (e) IF YOU HAVE READ THIS FAR THEN YOUR EYES PROBABLY HURT. ALL CAPS, WHAT WERE WE THINKING? HOWEVER, WE ARE NOT LIABLE FOR THIS OR ANY OTHER OCULAR MALADY.

      They have the balls I didn't.

      --
      Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
    24. Re:I understand the first two... by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      This flat-bed truck example is right along the lines of rear-ender guilty by default: if you stayed sufficiently far behind the next vehicle, it wouldn't have happened. Same thing for gravel, if you kept your distances, falling pieces would reach the ground instead of your car. Good luck trying to win such a case, all it says to the insurance companies is that you have most likely misjudged your safe distance or were not keeping it.

    25. Re:I understand the first two... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      But why do people put heavy desclaimers when giving legal opinion?

      IANAL, if you want legal advice etc. etc..

      I never heard anyone say I am not a computer scientist when they happily criticize code?

      I am not an american, is this an amercan law or something?

    26. Re:I understand the first two... by owlstead · · Score: 1

      Because they are written by lawyers. These are generally the kind of people that send all mail on high priority. Besides that, they answer to managers, who otherwise would make statements like: "that's not really clear, maybe you can make it more clear somehow?". When it is in capitals, it is the truth and it won't be debated. God spoke in capitals as well, I've heard.

    27. Re:I understand the first two... by insignificant1 · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      IANAL.

      Okay, I just wanted to say that.

    28. Re:I understand the first two... by trentblase · · Score: 1

      No way -- you are not expected to be able to anticipate the trajectory of objects falling off another vehicle in the standard of "safe following distance". This is a particularly sore point for me, because I was hit by gravel falling off a truck I was passing in the other direction. By the time I got turned around, the truck was gone and I was left with expensive gashes in my paint and windshield.

    29. Re:I understand the first two... by Libby+Liberal · · Score: 5, Informative

      When non-lawyers point out that they aren't lawyers, it's for the benefit of the reader so the reader doesn't mistake a layperson's opinion on a legal matter with expert legal advice. In other words, I'm saying above "I'm not an expert on this matter, so don't take what I say here and try to apply it in a court of law or you could be in serious trouble".

      Lawyers have to be careful online about giving out legal advice because of ethical standards, so they frequently disclaim their statements (whether it means anything or not) with "this does not constitute legal advice". Providing certain advice could be construed as creating an attorney-client relationship. At that point, you could also be automatically in breach of attorney-client privilege because you would be posting your new client's advice on a public forum.

      There's actually a significant amount of debate on the matter. By simply pointing out that you're not providing legal advice, does your advice become any less legal?

      Disclaiming is sort of like those statements at the bottom of corporate emails that say if you receive a message by mistake you're obligated to destroy it immediately. Well, of course you're not unless you have a contract with the company that says otherwise. If I get a private email from somebody with damaging corporate details, I'm in no way, shape, or form obligated to destroy it, and I'm entirely free to share it with other people so long as I'm not breaking other laws by doing so (e.g. - committing fraud, espionage, etc.).

      --
      I voted for Bob Dole once. That was the smartest thing I ever did since he lost.
    30. Re:I understand the first two... by rajafarian · · Score: 1

      ...I for one will no longer buy Sony products.

      I always thought I'd feel really cool if I :

      Went to see a Rock band that is under contract to Sony at a venue that is owned by Sony, buy a CD there that is made by Sony, take it home, burn a copy illegally for one of my friend on my Sony computer that has a Sony CD burner using Sony blank media. My friend then plays it on his all-Sony stereo system.

      But this never happened.

    31. Re:I understand the first two... by dirty · · Score: 1

      Actually I don't think you even need the bumper sticker. IIRC in PA (and probably other states), if you rear end someone you're at fault, unless you can manage to prove that the other car cut you off. You are responsible for keeping a safe distance between you and the car in front of you.

      --

      -matt
    32. Re:I understand the first two... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I absolutely agree. I stopped dead in my tracks when I saw that I needed to download an Active-X control from First 4 Internet (a company that never will have my trust thanks to the Sony rootkit they made).

      To speak figuratively, when I look at the rootkit sitting on my hard drive, staring back at me with its beady little eyes, I want blood. I want sony begging me to buy their products again, just so I can say NO.

      PS. Can someone tell me why CDex can copy the songs off of a Sony DRM CD (with no problems or limitations) when iTunes for the PC can't? Does it actually disable the rootkit or what?

    33. Re:I understand the first two... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Informative
      But why do people put heavy desclaimers when giving legal opinion?

      Because in many jurisdictions, offering certain types of advice (typically legal, financial or medical) as if you're knowledgable on a subject, but without the professional qualifications, insurance etc. to match, can get you in a whole heap of trouble if the advice turns out to be wrong. There's nothing wrong with discussing these issues anywhere, AFAIK, as long as it's clear that it's a personal opinion and not professional advice.

      AIUI, the disclaimers are actually more relevant for those who are practising professionals. For example, if a lawyer gives some general legal advice randomly on the Internet, they probably wouldn't want it to be treated the same way as advice they gave in confidence to a client whose exact situation they knew. A couple of fairly regular Slashdotters have a sig that says something like "I am a lawyer, but I'm not your lawyer, and this is not my legal advice to you".

      Of course, the most important disclaimer is that if you get your legal advice from Slashdot, you probably deserve whatever consequences befall you anyway...

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    34. Re:I understand the first two... by Asgard · · Score: 1

      It is quite possible for a piece of gravel to bounce a fair distance after falling of a fast truck. I've personally witnessed this -- I was lagging behind a gravel truck with just this situation in mind, yet a piece of graval still managed to fall off, bounce off the road, and leave a crater in my windshield.

    35. Re:I understand the first two... by n8ur · · Score: 2, Informative

      Some kinds of contract provisions (disclaimer of warranties under the Uniform Commercial Code, and the notices required by numerous consumer protection laws) are required by statute to be in "conspicuous" type. All caps is considered conspicious if the rest of the document is capitalized normally. So, that's why those "ALL OTHER WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED..." provisions are done that way. (You'll often see those provisions in bold as well, just at add more conspicuousness.)

      However, if the whole document is in caps and the magic provision thus isn't differentiated from the rest of the text, then there's a pretty good argument that it's not "conspicuous," and there's a good chance a judge interested in the fine points of the law would find that clause unenforceable.

    36. Re:I understand the first two... by panic_smooth · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I ANAL

      --
    37. Re:I understand the first two... by HydroCarbon10 · · Score: 1

      At least in Texas, tarp laws are in effect. If you can prove there was no tarp, then the sign means jack shit.

      --
      The best way to accelerate a windows box is at 9.8 meters per second square.
    38. Re:I understand the first two... by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      A couple of other folks have already mentioned circumstances where you as the driver of the non-gravel truck could be acting as you should yet still be bombarded by the gravel.

      I'd like to point out another. Most commonly you'll encounter these trucks on a highway, unless you happen to be driving near a quarry or construction site. There it's perfectly legal to pass such a truck (or be passed by one) in the other lane, where the gravel could fall off the truck, right onto your car, without ever touching the ground, and without you having done anything wrong.

      --
      Slay a dragon... over lunch!
    39. Re:I understand the first two... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I pay taxes here in the US. I'd be awfully impressed to see it going to protect consumer rights.

    40. Re:I understand the first two... by nahdude812 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Actually I'd like to also point out that the greater danger from fallen gravel is gravel that has bounced once or twice. Before the gravel hits the ground, it's traveling almost the same speed as the truck (and presumably a similar speed to your car), while once it's bounced off the ground once, it's lost a lot of momentum from the bounce (and spin from the bounce), as well as longer exposure to wind resistance.

      These factors give it a higher velocity relative to your car, making them more dangerous the longer it's been since they left the truck. Hence, if you were greatly concerned about damage from the gravel, you're less likely to encounter damage if you *are* tailgaiting the truck. Unless it's a very tall truck losing gravel at the top, in which case that may be similar in relative velocity, though most trucks will lose gravel 4-5 feet off the road (at the bottom of their flatbed, or the bottom of their dump truck's rear panel).

      --
      Slay a dragon... over lunch!
    41. Re:I understand the first two... by squidfood · · Score: 1
      By simply pointing out that you're not providing legal advice, does your advice become any less legal?

      More to the point, is claiming that you're not responsible if anyone trusts your definition of the word "Exculpatory" exculpatory?

    42. Re:I understand the first two... by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      If you are behind (I did specify the rear-ender case) you can avoid gravel (or rear-ending) by keeping a safe distance appropriate to the circumstances - enough distance for falling pieces to settle on the ground. If you are passing by the on-coming truck, it is no longer a rear-ender type situation but as you said, the truck is already too far for positive identification by the time you hear/see the hit, making it pretty hard to file claims against the driver/company who operated/owned the vehicle.

    43. Re:I understand the first two... by Tom · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I think everyday commerce with private individuals should be governed by a small, standardized set of contracts established by law.

      Come to Germany, we've got something close to that.

      The so-called AGB ("Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen", roughly meaning "general terms of doing business with us") are extremely common in Germany and regulate stuff like how to return stuff to claim warranty, how quickly to pay if you don't pay by cash or credit card, that the stuff remains property of the shop until paid in full, etc. etc.
      It's usually 1-2 pages of legalese in small print. And it's put up somewhere in the shop, linked from the websites, etc.

      But - that ain't the beauty. The beauty is that german courts have enforced a rule to forbid "surprising clauses". See, some companies tried to slip outrageous stuff in there, just the stuff you find in EULAs, or the like.
      The courts have simply declared these clauses null and void. Anything that you wouldn't by common sense expect to find in the AGB is basically forbidden to be there.

      Excellent measure. As a customer, I know I don't have to read the AGB unless I need to actually use them (i.e. return something, claim a refund, or check how long I can withhold payment before they want it back).

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    44. Re:I understand the first two... by NotTheNickIWanted · · Score: 1
      Same thing for gravel, if you kept your distances, falling pieces would reach the ground instead of your car.

      You must be a very skilled driver. I would be interested in learning of your technique for maintaining a safe distance from debris-throwing vehicles which are approaching from the opposite lane.

      --

      unsigned int question = 0x2B | ~(0x2B)
    45. Re:I understand the first two... by 6*7 · · Score: 1

      BS. Ever driven over a freshly paved road with excess gravel? It surely doesn't stay on the ground after you have driven over it (which explains the noise of small pebbles hitting your car). Or imagine a bike hitting gravel in a high speed bend.

    46. Re:I understand the first two... by jazman_777 · · Score: 3, Informative
      I am not an american, is this an amercan law or something?

      It's because on /. we often assume the law should reflect our own common sense of how things should work. There is in reality no connection. Every day hundreds of disappointed litigants leave courts scratching their heads on how the law came up with such a screwy result against common sense and all decency.

      'IANAL' is a nod to the way things really work. 'IANAL' says, 'Here's my common sense, but it means nothing in a court of law.'

      --
      Slashdot: Failed Car Analogies. Amateur Lawyering. Anecdote Battles.
    47. Re:I understand the first two... by slashing1 · · Score: 1

      Actually, we do have such laws in the U.S., the UCC (Uniform Commercial Code), which helps standardize commerical transactions. The UCC isn't really geared towards software and the like, however, so out of it sprung efforts towards the UCITA (Uniform Computer Information Transactions Act). The latter was not well regarded among consumer and fair-use advocates.

    48. Re:I understand the first two... by the+arbiter · · Score: 1

      Don't know how it works in your state, but here in California the truck operator is liable for damages from anything that falls off the vehicle whether there's a warning on the back of said truck or not.

      --
      Boycott everything - they're all trying to fuck you one way or another
    49. Re:I understand the first two... by nasor · · Score: 1

      I agree that the situation is bad. But in many ways, I really don't feel much sympathy for victims of things like this any more. Companies can get away with sticking disclaimers on every product and service under the sun because people are stupid sheep who are too lazy to not buy/use something that has a liability disclaimer. If a product of service comes with a disclaimer saying that you agree to not hold the company responsible for anything they do no matter how badly it screws you over, the only sane thing to do would be to refuse to buy it. If everyone did that, these disclaimers would vanish over night. If you agree to not hold someone responsible for anything that they do to you, well, you're a moron who practically deserves to get taken advantage of. Unfortunately the tiny minority of us who realize that it might not be a good idea to give companies the right to do whatever they want to us don't really have much choice any more because we're such a small part of the market that companies can afford to blow off our business.

    50. Re:I understand the first two... by ebh · · Score: 1

      By clearly stating that you are not a lawyer, you're making it clear that you're not trying to practice law without a license. If you are a lawyer and put in a disclaimer that you're not giving legal advice, you're stating that no attorney/client relationship (which in the US implies a lot of legal rights and responsibilities) exists between you and your readers.

    51. Re:I understand the first two... by ncc74656 · · Score: 1
      I believe the term is "exculpatory", and the way my legal environment professor explained it was this: "If clauses like that worked, we'd all be driving around with signs on the front of our cars that say, 'Not responsible if I hit you'."

      Signs like that are already on the road. Around here ("here"="Las Vegas"), the gravel trucks all have signs that say something like this:

      Keep Back 200 Feet
      Not Responsible for Broken Windshields

      I suspect the signs carry no legal weight whatsoever, but I don't know if anybody with a busted windshield, dented fender, or whatever has taken one of the trucking companies to court, or won in court.

      --
      20 January 2017: the End of an Error.
    52. Re:I understand the first two... by Phroggy · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually I don't think you even need the bumper sticker. IIRC in PA (and probably other states), if you rear end someone you're at fault, unless you can manage to prove that the other car cut you off. You are responsible for keeping a safe distance between you and the car in front of you.

      As far as I know, this is correct.

      I've heard of people turning on their headlights (which also lights up the taillights) to scare the person behind them by making them think they're seeing brake lights, without actually slowing down. Personally I always drive with my headlights on, because it makes me more visible to other drivers (even during the day in good weather), and my brake lights are very sensitive (they come on as soon as my foot touches the brake pedal).

      However, when someone is following you that closely, the best thing you can do (assuming you're not already in the rightmost lane) is to maintain speed, turn on your right turn signal, wait for a safe opportunity to do so, and change lanes. Remember, it's not a race; you don't get a prize for crossing the finish line before the other guy. Other drivers are idiots - let them be idiots, and stay out of their way.

      Cool insightful geeky traffic stuff here

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    53. Re:I understand the first two... by dual_boot_brain · · Score: 1

      generally true, but in comparative negligence jurisdictions if you jump on your breaks for no reason the court may determine that your act was unreasonable (a fact dependant finding) and conclude that you carry some percentage of the blame. In some cases if this exceeds 50%, then not only may you be barred from recovery, you may find yourself on the receiving end of a counter-claim. IANALHIAASEGTLS.

      --
      There is no reset button in life; however, there are bonus levels.
    54. Re:I understand the first two... by Superfarstucker · · Score: 1

      The rootkit goes through all the effort of cloaking itself to only interfere with certain programs. rename itunes IPOOP.exe and it will be able to burn copies. YOu might have to edit the title string too.. Of course, just remove the rootkit and don't worrry about it :)

    55. Re:I understand the first two... by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      In California (yes, we're a screwed up state, but it looks like our AG got one right finally.) If you hit your brakes hard and the person behind you rear-ends you, you can be found at fault for "brake-checking". Fortunatly, the way I know about this is that an officer was kind enough to tell my wife about it after she had been in an rear-end accident, she was found not at fault, but the officer did mention it as a possibility.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    56. Re:I understand the first two... by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      That stuff doesn't always stay in the same lane as the vehicle dropping it. If I am legally passing them on the left, and a rock comes off and hits my windshield, you better bet I'm going to get a license plate number and get the truck's insurance company to pay for a new windshield.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    57. Re:I understand the first two... by IllForgetMyNickSoonA · · Score: 1

      Actually, Joe Public does not hate Microsoft at all, from what I have seen so far. Joe Public doesn't even know a computer can also not crash (or behave strangely, or get infected with malware 40 seconds after being connected to the Net, or... well, pick your favorite).

      In the past few months, I had quite a few contacts with management type of guys in the company where I work. I was disgusted to see that they not only have nothing against MS, they even seem to LOVE MS! Those people are not stupid. Some of them are even very smart, at least in their areas of expertise. When it comes to computers, however, they are mind-boggingly ignorant.

      Now, why is that? The reason is simple: the cast majority of people is not interested in technology AT ALL, and are therefore happy with whatever makes their daily tasks easier to handle. They don't have the time or the interest to go out on the internet and to start looking for alternatives. They are happy with what they have (i.e. what they got as they bought their computers, what they got as a pirated copy from their neighbor, or what they received a training for in their company) and don't know any better. They don't hate MS and probably never will.

      Why some technologically well educated people seem to have no dislike for MS espaces me completely, but that's a different topic.

    58. Re:I understand the first two... by el+americano · · Score: 1

      I am not an american, is this an amercan law or something?

      Yes, it is American law. People have been sued by state bar associations for giving legal advice on the internet. You can be sued, BTW, even after typing "I am not a lawyer" and "this is not legal advice" if they decide that it really *was* legal advice. It does raise the burden of proof I suppose.

      So you can view these laws as protecting the consumer (yeah right) or forcing people to use lawyers even in cases where it isn't required. Almost no procedure of U.S. Immigration requires a lawyer, but I recall some websites sharing immigration advice - based on years of experiences - that showed which methods worked best in almost every real-world circumstance. I'd bet they spoke with more authority than most lawyers who specialize in immigration law, but after threats from the Kentucky Bar Association that's one less source of free information and advice.

      I don't need to tell you if I am a lawyer when I say that the lawyers who did that were scum.

      -EA

      --
      Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
    59. Re:I understand the first two... by maxwells_deamon · · Score: 1

      MIght be a good way to attack hidden EULAs. In theory, the legality of EULA's should be clear. "I did not see this agreement first, so it is not a binding contract"

      However, look at the 2600 case where it was ruled you could not link to something as news. If it had been CNN, do you really think the ruling would have gone that way?

      What you need to really have a good chance of breaking EULAs is something dumb like this.

      IANAL

      (BTW: shouldn't the acronym be something like " I try not to be anal like I would need to be if I were a lawyer"?)

    60. Re:I understand the first two... by trentblase · · Score: 1

      Whatever, dude. Next time you're following me on the highway, you better be far back enough to let the nails that fall out of my truck to settle on the ground.

    61. Re:I understand the first two... by rsadelle · · Score: 1

      This, of course, leaves open the question of what happens if you DON'T have autorun on, or you decline the EULA and play the CD via other means.

      That's what I keep wondering! I own one of these CDs, and when I first put it into a computer, it popped up the EULA. I wasn't about to install some sort of extra player just to listen to a CD, so I disagreed, turned off autoplay, put it in again, and played it with Media Player Classic. (You can also use task manager to kill the process that starts up under autoplay. I was frustrated with it and not thinking clearly the first time.) I'm enough of a geek not to install odd players, but not quite enough of one to really know how to go about figuring out if it does anything if you let it autoplay but don't run their install. That would be much more insidious than the rootkit being installed with the player you do agree to install.

    62. Re:I understand the first two... by timeOday · · Score: 3, Insightful
      If you agree to not hold someone responsible for anything that they do to you, well, you're a moron who practically deserves to get taken advantage of.
      I don't think this is true, and a lot hinges on it. The problem is that in today's world there's practically no way to know what you're "agreeing" to.

      First, you may never see the contract. Maybe you are tearing the shrinkwrap off a box of software with some disclaimers hidden somewhere inside. Maybe you're sitting down to use software installed by somebody else along time ago.

      Second, the contracts are too long and complicated. It would be impossible for a company to conduct business if every customer who came in to spend $20 had their own unique multiple-page legal document that had to be scrutinized and accepted by a company lawyer. Not because companies are lazy or stupid but because it's economically infeasible. Yet somehow that's what we demand of private individuals (with no legal training) in dealing with dozens of companies every week. It's simply not workable, and gives the upper hand to businesses which conduct all end-customer transactions under the same contract (their own).

      Third, even if you know all the jargon and have all the time in the world to read the contracts, you really can't interpret them without knowing the entire legal framework. Which parts are actually enforceable by law, and which are just wishful thinking by a company lawyer? Do you know all the applicable state regulations? How about for all 50 states, or do you never order things from another state?

      The enticing ideal of two parties with mutual understanding entering a contract simply isn't very applicable to the myriad of little transactions we carry out on a day to day basis, and yet we pretend it is. That's why its such a mess.

    63. Re:I understand the first two... by John+Newman · · Score: 0, Offtopic
      I voted for Bob Dole once. That was the smartest thing I ever did since he lost.
      Off-topic, but I love your sig. Bob Dole happened to be the first Presidential candidate I cast a vote for - and the first in a so-far unbroken string of votes I cast for losers. Too funny.
    64. Re:I understand the first two... by DerekJ212 · · Score: 0

      As a stupidly fast teenage driver, I agree with this. Cars that either arent paying enough attention to get out of the way and those that dont get out of the way are the ones truly causing problems. It has been proven that while speed may cause more deaths, it is the differential of speed caused by slower drivers causing us real issues.

    65. Re:I understand the first two... by Mistshadow2k4 · · Score: 1

      Many companies, though not all (and apparently not Sony), have enough sense to add to their EULA that these limitations may not apply to you as dictated by state law. In other words, it doesn't matter whether the person agreed to the EULA because that didn't apply to them anyway in that state. I've seen this before on software EULAs and other guarantees/refund policies.

      Btw, I just have no more use for Sony anyway. They're DRMing their stuff to death so that you can barely use it after you pay for it and they, contrary to what they say, the do not make the best products. It's just their compnay policy that they make the best products, so if some of their products are reported to have problems, those problems don't exist and Sony denies them. Just say no to Sony.

      --
      I dream of a better world... one in which chickens can cross roads without their motives being questioned.
    66. Re:I understand the first two... by Hinhule · · Score: 1

      Actually according to Pratchett, DEATH speaks in capitals.
      Of course, Death will eventually visit god, so we all know who is boss.

    67. Re:I understand the first two... by EternityInterface · · Score: 0

      since you ended in soviet russia style...

      in soviet russia, government control YOU
      in free economy america, corporation control YOU

      --
      the sun is god
    68. Re:I understand the first two... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      IIRC in PA (and probably other states), if you rear end someone you're at fault, unless you can manage to prove that the other car cut you off.

      IIRC, in no state are you at fault unless you can prove the person cut you off. That is just what people say because they think they had really good reasons for hitting someone, but they didn't. How about if the person in front of you doesn't have brake lights? You can be keeping a reasonable distance, but not notice they they have slowed significantly until it is too late to avoid them. Also, if the person in front purposefully drives to make you rear-end them (not that hard to do), you aren't at fault (though, this may be hard to prove). Sure, the reasonable explanations for rear-ending someone is a short list, but that doesn't mean that it is official in any location that you are "automatically at fault" or some other BS.

      --
      Learn to love Alaska
    69. Re:I understand the first two... by LionMage · · Score: 1

      In the state of Arizona, you're automatically at fault if you rear-end someone. It's possible to argue your way out of the ticket in traffic court if you can prove that the person in front of you performed an illegal lane change or some other unsafe maneuver (i.e., cut you off) prior to the accident. That's hard to prove without witnesses.

      The way the law is written has a lot to do with it; in Arizona, it's "failure to control your speed in order to avoid a collision." The idea being, if you are following behind someone in traffic, you are required to maintain a safe following distance and a proper speed; if the guy in front of you slams on his brakes, you must be able to stop without hitting him.

      I am not a lawyer (usual disclaimers apply), but I've been on both ends of this equation in Arizona. This little bit of law snags more unwary California visitors than almost anything else; as another poster in this thread commented, California law is a little less cut-and-dried, since the person in front can be faulted for "brake checking."

      As a side note, I really had trouble figuring out what you were trying to say; the GP poster was expressing himself pretty clearly, but I had a hard time deciding which side of the fence you were coming down on. But I can assure you that if you are in Arizona and you rear-end someone, you will be ticketed, regardless. Cops here aren't even given discretion in the matter. (Side-swipes and other collisions that are not strictly front-to-back are another thing entirely...) Not sure if any other state is quite so absolute, but it's one data point to disprove your final assertion.

    70. Re:I understand the first two... by mav[LAG] · · Score: 1

      The so-called AGB ("Allgemeine Geschäftsbedingungen", roughly meaning "general terms of doing business with us")

      Geschafts seems like an appropriate description of doing business with Sony in English too.

      --
      --- Hot Shot City is particularly good.
    71. Re:I understand the first two... by modecx · · Score: 1

      Absolutely, I've seen largish pieces of concrete, tires and whatnot do exactly as you describe. The relative velocity appears to increase logarithmically after the first bounce. Scary stuff. The worst I've seen: a car creamed by an exploding brake drum on a dirt-hauling trailer. That fate should be reserved for child molesters and corrupt representatives. Always stay FAR, FAR away from those whenever possible, and get by as quick as possible.

      The second worst I've seen was a tractor-trailer hitting the concrete barricade on the opposite side of the freeway. That whole thing cruised across my side of the interstate at least 60mph and just in front of me. There was another piece that went behind me, it creamed another car, then there was a pile up because of it! Fortunately nobody was killed. I've had all kinds of close calls on the highway; I must be a magnet, but a relatively lucky one.

      --
      Constitutional rights may be respected, repealed, or modified; but they must never be ignored.
    72. Re:I understand the first two... by Class+Act+Dynamo · · Score: 1

      I have been at work; otherwise, I would have responded sooner. I was not in the same lane as the truck. It shot diagonally at me as I was making a legal pass on the left.

      --
      My other computer is a Jacquard loom.
    73. Re:I understand the first two... by InvalidError · · Score: 1

      Tell me how you can rear-end vehicles from on-coming traffic and I will tell you.

      When following a vehicle, you are supposed to keep enough distance to avoid stuff that may fall from it. This is pretty hard to apply to on-coming traffic or to over-taking.

      For trucks, I either follow at 2-3X my normal distance whenever I can. As for overtaking them, this is generally unnecessary on highways around here because most local truck drivers are lunatics who typically drive ~10km/h faster than everyone else who is already driving 10-20km/h over the limit.

    74. Re:I understand the first two... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where I come from there's absolutely no excuse for rear-ending someone. The minimum safe distance is well defined - something like 'the minimum safe distance is the distance required to bring the vehicle to a complete stop'. Thus if you rear end some-one, you must have been breaking the law.

      I am not human, and I'm not a lawyer either.

    75. Re:I understand the first two... by Handpaper · · Score: 1
      I suspect the signs carry no legal weight whatsoever, but I don't know if anybody with a busted windshield, dented fender, or whatever has taken one of the trucking companies to court, or won in court.

      Getting seriously OT here, but who cares..)
      Here in the UK, companies running quarry trucks or the like will frequently pay up without question if you make a convincing (right vehicle, place and time) claim that your windscreen/bodywork was damaged by matter falling from one of their vehicles. An offence exists of 'Carrying an Insecure Load' for which a driver can be prosecuted, fined and have his licence endorsed with at least three penalty points (collect twelve in a three-year period and you are likely to be banned for a year). Companies don't want to lose drivers to this, so they (for the most part) don't overload, use tarpaulins whenever possible, and pay up fast when damage occurs.

    76. Re:I understand the first two... by chrome · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      I've found myself doing 20 or 30 over the speed limit, in the fast lane, over taking car after car and STILL have some wanker come up behind me flashing his lights, tailgating.

      Often there is nowhere to go, so I do the only thing possible. I slow down.

      I love watching the guys in my mirror go absolutely fucking INSANE, gnashing teeth and flashing lights and shaking fists ...

      Its a bad idea to continue at speed if someone is tailgating you. I think the best thing is to slow right down so that if you have an accident, your speeds are low enough to make it a minor one.

      then, when you can, sure - get out of the way. But don't continue doing your 70-80mph with the guy standing on your back bumper. IMO :)

    77. Re:I understand the first two... by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      i always thought IANAL was a statement of interest in buggery

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
    78. Re:I understand the first two... by zerofret · · Score: 1

      IANAL I've read that many judges are ruling these clickthru EULAs unenforcable. Legally binding agreement takes a whole lot more than just clicking on a button.

      1. There is no proof as to who actually clicked on the button
      2. The vendor's software claiming that you clicked on the 'I Agree' button is no proof that you actually did click it
      3. It is easy enough to write software that displays one EULA for your clickthru approval and a different one later when the EULA is reviewed
      4. The consumer is coerced into agreement since they are unlikely to get a refund if they do not consent to the EULA, and their first opportunity to see the EULA comes after the package has already been opened

      Even if Sony's clickthru EULA was found to be enforceable as a contract, that only gets Sony off the hook for civil damages. They still engaged in activity that is very likely to be illegal, and no contract gets you off the hook for commiting crimes.

      It is my hope that the Sony Executives responsible for this malicious software get to spend 10 to 20 years in prison. This would send a clear message to any other clueless corporate suits who think they can do damned near anything they feel like to their customers.

    79. Re:I understand the first two... by Phroggy · · Score: 1

      If there's really nowhere to go, then sure, go ahead and slow down gradually... but do so with your turn signal on, so everyone around you knows you WANT to switch lanes so you can get out of the guy's way. Some people don't understand that turn signals are supposed to signal your intention or desire, not just your current action, so they wait to turn on the turn signal until an opening appears; this is dumb. Turn your turn signal on, and polite drivers will make room for you.

      It also signals to the tailgater behind you that you know he wants to pass you and you'll get out of his way ASAP, so he no longer has to tailgate to let you know he wants to pass. If he's got a brain, he'll back off. Of course he probably doesn't.

      Your point about speeds being low enough to make it a minor accident is valid, I suppose, but I'd much rather try to avoid it altogether.

      --
      $x='S24;r)>63/* h@<5+oZ)32"5cz';$me='phroggy'x$];
      $x=~y+ -xz+\0-Tx+;print$_^chop$me for split'',$x;
    80. Re:I understand the first two... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least in Australia, you cannot use a disclaimer or put a clause in a contract that excludes you from statutory liability. In other words: Legislation > Common Law. I'm not sure if it's the same in America but I would think so as it is also a common law country.

    81. Re:I understand the first two... by DDLKermit007 · · Score: 1

      Sony has never had an "image" with anyone that IQ above 40 or so. Past thier TV tubes that lost thier Copyrite a few years ago Sony essentialy means cheapply made, 1/3 more than other better made products, and will generaly break the day thier "90 day warranty" expires.

    82. Re:I understand the first two... by Tom+Ciarlone · · Score: 1

      Class Action Law Firm Investigating Sony CDs: My law firm is investigating the situation surrounding "rootkits" on Sony-label CDs. In connection with our investigation, we are interested in learning more about the experiences consumers have had with those CDs. I can be contacted at (212) 239-4340 or, by e-mail, at tciarlone@lawssb.com.

    83. Re:I understand the first two... by chrome · · Score: 1

      Well, yeah. Your point about indicating is well taken. Though, when you're really being tailgated, its hard to keep your cool and systematically do these things ...

      I always get out of the way. Soon as I can. I just am amazed at how impatient some of these gits are. I mean, really, you get past me - I'm doing 85Mph - and how much faster will you be going before you hit the tail bumper of the guy in front of me? Its not like highways are empty and I'm just sitting in the fast lane for the hell of it :)

      I've lost count of the number of times that slowing down for a tailgater so I could get out of his way has saved me from being caught by the police, too. So many times, a guy will be impatient behind me, tailgating, and I'll let him go ... then 15 minutes later he'll be on the verge talking to the cops. Ha ha!

  2. Hell yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    The man is sticking it to the man!

    1. Re:Hell yeah! by Dashing+Leech · · Score: 5, Funny
      "The man is sticking it to the man!"

      Not that there's anything wrong with that. (=

    2. Re:Hell yeah! by vivian · · Score: 5, Funny

      I can't believe how appropriate some of the song titles are:

      Our Lady Peace, Healthy in Paranoid Times (Columbia)
      Van Zant, Get Right with the Man (Columbia)
      Switchfoot, Nothing is Sound (Columbia)
      The Coral, The Invisible Invasion (Columbia)
      Acceptance, Phantoms (Columbia)
      Horace Silver Quintet, Silver's Blue (Epic Legacy)
      Dexter Gordon, Manhattan Symphonie (Columbia Legacy)
      The Bad Plus, Suspicious Activity (Columbia)

      almost like they are an extra subliminal warning, given the extra Sony "Bonus" that awaits on the CD.

    3. Re:Hell yeah! by RoboProg · · Score: 1

      good catch :-)
      (a redundant AOL! response and all that)

      --
      Yow! I'm supposed to have a plan?
    4. Re:Hell yeah! by xs650 · · Score: 1

      Well, it is from California ;)

    5. Re:Hell yeah! by Golias · · Score: 1

      More to the point, I was all set to be really mad about what Sony is doing, until I realized that every last band who is releasing one of these rootkit CD sucks so badly that I would never let one of them near my CD player, let alone my computer.

      As long as Sony continues to only release broken CD's for really, really shitty bands, I'm good.

      --

      Information wants to be anthropomorphized.

    6. Re:Hell yeah! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Isn't it funny that all bands are anti-establishment, but keep one of the worst industries in the united states alive and evil?

    7. Re:Hell yeah! by Sylver+Dragon · · Score: 1

      Which just makes it funnier. California's lawmakers have their lips so far up the asses of the entertainment industry, it could technically be classified as kissing on the lips. Of course, California is also one of the more consumer friendly states in the union, so maybe this is to be expected. Still, I can't help but expect that our legislature will see this and pass a law exempting the entertainment industry from liability if they screw your computer, delete your files, rape your sister, in the attempt to stop piracy.

      --
      Necessity is the mother of invention.
      Laziness is the father.
    8. Re:Hell yeah! by Captbaritone · · Score: 1

      Yeah, some of my best freinds are men who stick it to the man. They often come round for dinner.

      --
      - Captbaritone
  3. woohoo by Jackie_Chan_Fan · · Score: 1, Funny

    Go get em!

    1. Re:woohoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To:Sony
      Subject: Hi - about your altered role.
      Dear $on¥,
                Please dont try to imitate M$, you can never become one.

      Thanks

      Anonymous Coward

  4. "Nothing for you to see here. Please move along." by KitesWorld · · Score: 5, Insightful

    bleh.

    Anyway, It's good to see this happening. It's important to make sure that the major labels realise that while DRM is legal, there are limits to what people will tolerate - and damaging peoples machines is not something that people are going to tolerate.

    Heck, with luck they might even water down Blu-Ray as a result. I can dream :)

  5. No more DRM discs from Sony! by RandoX · · Score: 1

    But only if passed by the court. Oh yeah, and just in California. Sounded better in the article.

    1. Re:No more DRM discs from Sony! by malchus842 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      and just in California

      Except that CA is so huge that to market a disc in CA that was different than the rest of the US just wouldn't be worth the cost. Especially since CDs are bought online, etc. No, if CA wins, Sony will end up dropping THIS particular DRM method. And others will be less likely to do something like it.

      Also, CA isn't the only state with such consumer protections. Others will follow suit if this one works, or even before.

  6. Great, yet another reason ... by LaughingCoder · · Score: 4, Insightful

    not to buy CDs. Like I needed more reasons. They are already too expensive and they force me to buy tracks I don't want just to get the 1 or 2 I want. I know Sony *thinks* they are *adding value* which will incent me to buy CDs, but obviously they miscalculated.

    If only someone would offer a digital download service with CD quality content.

    --
    The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    1. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Maestro4k · · Score: 1
      not to buy CDs. Like I needed more reasons. They are already too expensive and they force me to buy tracks I don't want just to get the 1 or 2 I want. I know Sony *thinks* they are *adding value* which will incent me to buy CDs, but obviously they miscalculated. With luck this little incident will cause a change in attitude among a larger portion of the populace. People have finally started figuring out that spyware/adware/malware/rootkits are Evil (tm) and if it gets plastered all over the news that Sony's CDs were doing things like that they're going to figure out that Sony CDs = Evil at least. Once that happens it'll really hurt the recording industry because it's likely that people will start worrying if the other labels are doing similar stuff but just haven't been caught yet. (And honestly I wonder the same thing, I suspect Sony's not alone and we'll start hearing more discoveries of similar things from other labels and this will snowball into an absolutely HUGE issue.)

      Of course even if it does happen and CD sales plummet like a rock the RIAA will claim it's all due to piracy. Maybe Congress won't buy it this time when they have angry constituents who's PCs were compromised because of Sony's rootkit though. That's something I expect too happen soon, there's more than enough people out there with a bone to pick with the recording industry that someone will likely develop an exploit and release it in the wild just to kick Sony while they're down.

      If only someone would offer a digital download service with CD quality content. Something like AllOfMp3.com, only definitely legal, would fit the bill. I'd be willing to buy music again under that type of plan. As it is I'm happy with the music I have and haven't bought a CD in years (or downloaded anything).
    2. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by johnw · · Score: 1
      which will incent me

      ITYM "will incense me"
    3. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      No, "incent" is correct. Sony thinks extra tracks are an incentive. What they accomplished, however, was to incense the OP.

      With love,
      Grammar Nazi

    4. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Jaysyn · · Score: 1

      You can get CD-DA tracks for a lot of albulms at allformp3.com.

      Jaysyn

      --
      There is a war going on for your mind.
    5. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How poor are you that you think 10-12 dollars for a CD is too expensive? When Valve or iD sells a CD for 50 dollars, do you think that is too expensive too?

    6. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by aknuts · · Score: 1

      "If only someone would offer a digital download service with CD quality content" there is allofmp3.com for your cd quality content 8-)

    7. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by g0at · · Score: 1

      they force me to buy tracks I don't want just to get the 1 or 2 I want.

      I've always found this argument somewhat curious. An album is arguably a cohesive work of art; you don't hear people saying this about books ("they force me to buy chapters I don't want") or movies ("they force me to buy scenes I don't want"). Why do people make this argument with CDs?

      -b

      --
      myselfmusic
    8. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by nine-times · · Score: 1

      Sometimes it's a cohesive work of art. Sometimes. Usually it's not. Think about it this way: does it seem weird that radio stations just play one song from an album? No. But it would seem weird if television stations just showed one scene of a movie, or book stores sold single chapters of books. That's because there's a difference.

    9. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by FictionPimp · · Score: 1

      Well, you normally dont read one chapter in a book. But you do listen to just one song. Just like I only read a few poems in a few of my poem books. In todays mass market media world no one is making albums as whole works of art. Its a room full of marketing execs deciding what to put where. So you normally only like a few songs, only a few songs are ever on the raido, and the album is usually just a way of filling up the disk to make an excuse for you to buy it. Its like taking a ok short story, and just adding new chapters on the end.

    10. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by g0at · · Score: 1

      n todays mass market media world no one is making albums as whole works of art. Its a room full of marketing execs deciding what to put where. So you normally only like a few songs, only a few songs are ever on the raido, and the album is usually just a way of filling up the disk to make an excuse for you to buy it. Its like taking a ok short story, and just adding new chapters on the end.

      Hmm... I think you're listening to the wrong kind of music, dude. Or rather, from the wrong sources (radio stations and labels)... There are *lots* of bands out there with integrity, who write great songs, and who actually record, produce and organize their own albums!

      -b

      --
      myselfmusic
    11. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Belgand · · Score: 1

      It depends on the type of music. If you're buying top 40 crap and want to get whatever the current hot single is (imagine that! Back in the day when people actually released songs only as singles and it was a major part of the marketplace) you're probably also dealing with music where the band was only capable of coming up with one or two decent songs which were made into singles.

      If you're actually interested in music you're more likely to be buying albums based on the quality of the album and the artist, not because you heard some song on the radio and want to own it. You're buying an artistic work that you'll enjoy for years to come, not something you're going to forget about in a few weeks.

      Bottom line: if you're buying an album to get one song you're probably better off buying a good CD by a better band capable of putting out a quality album instead.

    12. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by g0at · · Score: 1

      Bottom line: if you're buying an album to get one song you're probably better off buying a good CD by a better band capable of putting out a quality album instead.

      Precise; that's what I was kind of driving at. Well said.

      -b

      --
      myselfmusic
    13. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Yaruar · · Score: 1

      Or you could just buy cd's from one of the many people producing the technology to make mix CDs on demand (with no DRM i might add [at least from us])

      It's what we http://www.vmusicstores.com/ and people like Mix and Burn are doing.....

      --
      Working for the (other) man
    14. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by LaughingCoder · · Score: 1

      99 times out of a hundred (probably even more often than that) there are a few good tracks and a bunch of fill on a CD. If your assertion was correct that a CD was intended to be a complete "work of art", what are the odds they would all have from 10-15 songs and consume 45-60 minutes? To me a song is an artistic unit. Only in very rare cases (at least in "popular" music genres like rock, pop, country, rap, hip-hop) is an album intended to be consumed in its totality.

      --
      The more you regulate a company, the worse its products become.
    15. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "How poor are you that you think 10-12 dollars for a CD is too expensive?"

      Well, CD's down at the local store are close to 18-20.

      But 10-12? Still too expensive. Make it $7-8 and we'll talk.

      BTW, I'm not sure what anybody's "economic condition" has to do with the market value of a CD. I'm sure its supposed to be a put down, but it comes off more as the comments of a spoiled brat whose mumsie and daddy pay for their college education and BMW to commute to school.

    16. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      There are several digital download services offering WAV and FLAC downloads.. you don't have to stick to MP3.

      Of course if you want mass produced crap you can still pay for itunes...

    17. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by ipfwadm · · Score: 1

      They are already too expensive

      Exactly... you know what I find really pathetic? When I can buy a DVD for less money than the CD of the same movie's soundtrack.

      "So I can get the soundtrack... or for less money, I can get the movie AND the soundtrack. Hmm..."

    18. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by Panaflex · · Score: 1

      That's so cool.. I actually had that idea about 10 years ago when I first starting playing with mpeg. Unfortunately, the cost of data links then would of killed the idea for retail.

      Glad to see somebody finally did it!

      -Pan

      --
      I said no... but I missed and it came out yes.
    19. Re:Great, yet another reason ... by interiot · · Score: 1
      *shrug* Pink Floyd's album "The Wall" is meant to be a cohesive whole, yet radio stations often play "Another Brick In The Wall (Part II)" by itself. I don't know, music is different. There are some intros to songs that I wouldn't mind hearing by themselves, without hearing the rest of the song.

      That said, you're still right, most albums are much less of a cohesive whole.

  7. Sony's DRM is Good by rudy_wayne · · Score: 3, Informative


    Install Sony DRM protected CD
    Re-Name your favorite CD ripping program to $SYS$filename.exe
    Now your CD ripper is hidden from Sony's DRM

    It can also be used to hide cheat programs from various games.

    1. Re:Sony's DRM is Good by Motherfucking+Shit · · Score: 2, Informative
      Install Sony DRM protected CD
      Re-Name your favorite CD ripping program to $SYS$filename.exe
      Now your CD ripper is hidden from Sony's DRM
      Maybe you missed the story from a few days ago where it was indicated that Sony's spyware can see through veiled attempts to use files whose names begin with $sys$.

      On the other hand, intentionally infecting oneself with this spyware in order to avoid other companies' DRM is simply genius, and is a sweet example of how multiple companies' competing DRM schemes will never be successful. Sony's DRM has made it possible to cheat in at least one MMORPM without recourse.
      --
      "BSD: Free as in speech. Linux: Free as in beer. Windows 10: Free as in herpes." --Man On Pink Corner in #52607549.
    2. Re:Sony's DRM is Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Actually renaming the ripper does NOT work, at least not consistently, according the original "discoverer" of this. See the last Slashdot story about it.

      Besides, you still have their shitty security-compromising, phone-homing, CPU cycle eating rootkit installed! So what if there's some way of working around it to rip the CD, it needs eradicating completely or better yet to not be installed to begin with.

      Better method :
      - Disable autorun, or hold down shift whilst you insert and explore the CD
      - Run ripper as normal, the rootkit isn't installed so there's nothing it can do

      Best method :
      - Don't buy the "CD" to begin with, write to the artist and Sony telling them why.

      Yeah, it's being used to cloak several cheat programs like the WoW auto-fisher. If I were head of one of their publishers I'd have my team of vicious attack lawyers looking for some legal grounds to sue Sony for loss of earnings / financial harm, I know there probably there aren't any but it's worth a try.

    3. Re:Sony's DRM is Good by bhtooefr · · Score: 1

      Well, it could be construed that these bots are damaging the in-game environment, meaning that n00bs watch for a little while, and give up, stopping paying the fee, letting their account expire.

    4. Re:Sony's DRM is Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To prevent such infection on MS Windows, follow these steps:

      1) Boot a computer up running Linux via a LiveCD or from a duel boot, if it doesn't strictly run Unix base OS.

      2) Burn a copy of "infected" non-redbook audio disc.

      3) Reboot into MS windows and only use the copy cd and throw out the infected one or send it to the label in the mail with a nice note saying you perfer not to use this anti-play audio disc and they can keep it.

    5. Re:Sony's DRM is Good by autophile · · Score: 1
      Don't buy the "CD" to begin with, write to the artist and Sony telling them why.

      Yeah, I can see it now:

      Dear Artist,

      rant, rant, whine, piss, moan!

      Sincerely Yours,

      Vera N Gree


      Dear Ms Gree,

      Sounds of clanking leg-irons

      Sincerely Yours,

      Artist


      Dear Sony,

      rant, rant, whine, piss, moan! So there!

      Sincerely Yours,

      Vera N Gree


      Dear Ms Gree,

      Thank you for getting in touch with Sony. We value you as a customer. In response to your request, please accept these coupons for free Sony DRM'd CD's. Now get back in your couch and watch TV like a good consumer.

      Laughing at your Ineffectiveness,

      Slai V. Wager

      --Rob

      --
      Towards the Singularity.
    6. Re:Sony's DRM is Good by thinkzinc · · Score: 1

      Bestest method : Copy the CD with x-cd-roast or rip mp3's with Grip in Linux.

  8. no problem sony! by MagicMerlin · · Score: 5, Funny

    Just rename your emailed copy of the lawsuit to $sys$lawsuit.pdf and it will disappear!

  9. Kalifornistan actually is doing something right?! by Riddlefox · · Score: 0, Troll

    I can't believe that Kali is doing something political that I agree with! First CARB, then their ridiculous firearm laws.... This is one case that I hope they win.

  10. The mp3's have no DRM by psergiu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I used to buy a lot of music CDs. But after this wave of incompatible discs i just resorted to download mp3s as its sure that i can play them on whatever device i want.

    --
    1% APY, No fees, Online Bank https://captl1.co/2uIErYq Don't let your $$$ sit in a no-interest acct.
    1. Re:The mp3's have no DRM by OverlordQ · · Score: 1

      music cd's dont have DRM on them. Period. if they do they can't legally have the CD logo on them (or something like that, yay for trademarks)

      --
      Your hair look like poop, Bob! - Wanker.
  11. Trial By Jury by BBCWatcher · · Score: 1

    In related news, the State of California also announced that the trial will take place in Cupertino. Podcasts of each day's proceedings will be available from a state Web site.

    1. Re:Trial By Jury by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      That's pretty cool, first Nasa and now the state of California. Too bad I haven't got an iPod. Maybe I should go to Cupertino to see the proceedings myself, I hear it's lovely this time of the year.

    2. Re:Trial By Jury by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Err why do you need an iPod? A "podcast" is just a downloadable audio track usually associated with RSS, you obviously have a computer so use that.

    3. Re:Trial By Jury by shotfeel · · Score: 1

      I tend to listen to a lot of audio podcasts from my computer. No iPod necessary. Also, most of them are in mp3 format so you can load them on any player.

  12. By the way, here's another interesting tidbit... by Hitto · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Before this gets /.ed, here's the text.
    Quoth the EFF :
    Now the Legalese Rootkit: Sony-BMG's EULA
    November 09, 2005

    If you thought XCP "rootkit" copy-protection on Sony-BMG CDs was bad, perhaps you'd better read the 3,000 word (!) end-user license agreement (aka "EULA") that comes with all these CDs.

    First, a baseline. When you buy a regular CD, you own it. You do not "license" it. You own it outright. You're allowed to do anything with it you like, so long as you don't violate one of the exclusive rights reserved to the copyright owner. So you can play the CD at your next dinner party (copyright owners get no rights over private performances), you can loan it to a friend (thanks to the "first sale" doctrine), or make a copy for use on your iPod (thanks to "fair use"). Every use that falls outside the limited exclusive rights of the copyright owner belongs to you, the owner of the CD.

    Now compare that baseline with the world according to the Sony-BMG EULA, which applies to any digital copies you make of the music on the CD:

    1. If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home. That's because the EULA says that your rights to any copies terminate as soon as you no longer possess the original CD.

    2. You can't keep your music on any computers at work. The EULA only gives you the right to put copies on a "personal home computer system owned by you."

    3. If you move out of the country, you have to delete all your music. The EULA specifically forbids "export" outside the country where you reside.

    4. You must install any and all updates, or else lose the music on your computer. The EULA immediately terminates if you fail to install any update. No more holding out on those hobble-ware downgrades masquerading as updates.

    5. Sony-BMG can install and use backdoors in the copy protection software or media player to "enforce their rights" against you, at any time, without notice. And Sony-BMG disclaims any liability if this "self help" crashes your computer, exposes you to security risks, or any other harm.

    6. The EULA says Sony-BMG will never be liable to you for more than $5.00. That's right, no matter what happens, you can't even get back what you paid for the CD.

    7. If you file for bankruptcy, you have to delete all the music on your computer. Seriously.

    8. You have no right to transfer the music on your computer, even along with the original CD.

    9. Forget about using the music as a soundtrack for your latest family photo slideshow, or mash-ups, or sampling. The EULA forbids changing, altering, or make derivative works from the music on your computer.

    So this is what Sony-BMG thinks we should be allowed to do with the music on the CDs that we purchase from them? No word yet about whether Sony-BMG will be offering a "patch" for this legalese rootkit. I'm not holding my breath.
    Posted by Fred von Lohmann at 12:24 PM | Permalink | Technorati

    Endquote. It's interesting to see just how far Sony will go to alienate the tech-savvy user base. It's been a few years since I religiously started forbidding people to buy Sony products, because I wouldn't be assed to "fix my vaio, please" or to "take a look at my LCD screen, there are, like black dots and stuff on it", but my brother-in-law still got himself a Sony DAP.

    The first thing I thought was, "Wow! The salesman actually managed to sell him something that isn't an iPod.", but come on. What's you /.er's take on this vast DRM-wing conspiracy?

  13. Buying a new computer by BushCheney08 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I know that Sony's actions here will make me think twice about buying a Vaio. I'm getting ready to buy a new laptop, and Sony does have some decent ones out there. However, I have no way of knowing that they're not gonna install this crap on the machine at the factory. Well done Sony. The actions of one arm are negatively affecting sales of another...

    --
    Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    1. Re:Buying a new computer by vivian · · Score: 2, Informative

      Don't do it.
      I bought a high end sony laptop (for £1900 in Aug 2001) and had no end of problems.
      Mobo died after 4 months, and the default warranty didn't cover it. ( I was in Aus, I bought it in the UK. So much for an "international" company, which was one of the reasons I bought the VAIO in the first place.)
      I git it repaired 7 months later on a return trip to the UK, leaving me with 1 month warranty.
      The screen backlight died 3 months later. Sony told me it would cost over AU$1000 to replace the screen (which is 16.1" UXGA 1600x1200 res), as the backlight and ascreen are all one unit.
      I eventually found a local guy in Sydney that could dissasemble the screen & replace the neon tube. Cost:200.

      I bought a mem upgrade, to kick ram up to 512Mb. 5 months later,I am back to 256Mb again - but it's not the ram, it's the second controller or something - both sticks work, when put in slot one.

      Oh, and this laptop was the *second* Vaio I bought. The first I bought from a reputable online shop in the UK. It arrived and died within 15 minutes of firing it up. I sent it back, only to find it would take 3 months to get my full refund, because Sony won't refund the vendor until they have done a full check etc. on the laptop themselves. I wasnt interested in getting it repaired - I just wanted a full refund, so I could go to a bricks and mortar shop and buy a different laptop that would actually work for more than 15 minutes before it had to be repaired under warranty. Unfortunately I still thought Sony was good, and that the first dodgy laptop was just bad luck.

      Get a dell or compaq or something. I hear they suck less.

    2. Re:Buying a new computer by cogg · · Score: 1

      At least your Viao didn't explode like mine.
      Sorry, that's somewhat sensationalist. What really happened was that the PSU exploded on boot the other day (the bits aren't large enough to figure out why), and took out the mobo HD and RAM chips, three days outside the warranty period.
      Damned if I'll buy Sony again after this, combined with the DRM fiasco.

      On an unrelated note would anyone like a cheap DVD-R drive? For the cost of postage?

      --
      "Never 'clear the air'. Instead, investigate all the subtle nuances of the word 'fester'." - R. Candappa
    3. Re:Buying a new computer by Matje · · Score: 1

      buy an Asus laptop. I've had no end of joy with their hardware, especially with my laptop. They have offices around the world, so you may even be able to claim your warranty in different countries.

    4. Re:Buying a new computer by Feyr · · Score: 2, Informative

      a friend in the computer repair business once told me that the vaios are so fragile they literally get hundreds of them to repair. that was about 2 years ago when i was shopping for a laptop.

      in the end i went for an eurocom. it's somewhat heavy, but does a damn good job

    5. Re:Buying a new computer by zakezuke · · Score: 1

      Get a dell or compaq or something. I hear they suck less.

      What's really bad about those vaios isn't so much the fact that many in the past were unreliable pieces of garbage. It was the fact that buying a replacement motherboard for those suckers cost as much as another laptop. But on the up side they had really good e-bay sale value dead or alive.

      --
      There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
    6. Re:Buying a new computer by vivian · · Score: 1

      I am grateful indeed that my laptop's been going out with a whimper insterad of a bang.
      So there were actually shrapnel like fragments flying from the thing?

    7. Re:Buying a new computer by cogg · · Score: 1

      Fortunately no, the case contained it (for this my knee is eternally grateful), but there are bulges in the case now. I guess I was lucky the shell was of good quality.

      --
      "Never 'clear the air'. Instead, investigate all the subtle nuances of the word 'fester'." - R. Candappa
    8. Re:Buying a new computer by nahdude812 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Stay away from Dell too. After I was rear-ended in a car accident, my PCMCIA slot was damaged, but the machine worked fine otherwise.

      Of course that damage wasn't covered by my warranty, but the repair was covered by the other guy's insurance company. Their only clause for paying for it was this: any replaced parts needed to be shipped to them by me (I guess they wanted to make sure I wasn't trying to scam them and get myself a new computer).

      When I got the repair authorization from Dell, and fronted the $800 cost, I told the tech on the phone that I needed the replaced parts returned to me (the mobo needed to be replaced). He said no problem, I just needed to attach a note to the laptop, and they'd ship the parts back with the repaired laptop.

      I attached a note to the laptop to the effect (taped it securely to the back of the screen so it would be seen when the box was opened). After the laptop came back, it didn't have the old mobo, and the bill clearly stated that the mobo had been replaced. But there was no old mobo in the box.

      When I called support to ask about it, the first guy I talked to said Dell had a policy of never returning bad parts, but instead they destroy them in an environmentally friendly fashion. I explained I'd been told I could get the parts back, and needed the parts back to get reimbursed for it by insurance, he sent me to level 2. Level 2 said they do have a policy that they'll return those parts, but that I needed to tell the guy who issued my RMA in the first place. I explained I had done so, and he said, "I don't see any note on your RMA for that, you must not have done so, perhaps if you'd attached a note." I explained I had also attached a note, because that's what I was instructed to do by the RMA issuer. He checked the unpacking logs, and said no mention was made of a note.

      In the end I ended up talking to about a dozen different people in the returns area, almost every one had a different idea about how I'd have to have made sure I got the parts back, including some who told me that there's a 25% surcharge on getting the parts back (!).

      They wouldn't provide a partial or full refund for the work completed, they wouldn't ship me another mobo (I told them I didn't care if it was smashed into 100 pieces), and they didn't care that I was out the costs of this repair without the original parts. I climbed all the way up the supervisor chain to the director of out of warranty repairs, and no one cared, and no one was 1) willing to admit that any mistake had been made on their end (I had a PHOTO of the laptop in the shipping package, with my note attached to it, clearly readable, they claimed I could have done that after the fact), nor 2) willing to take any steps to placate me as an unhappy customer.

      So the insurance company wouldn't reimburse me, I spent $800 repairing a laptop that was not really worth that much (guess the insurance company should have totaled it), and it's all Dell's fault. They honestly didn't care.

      --
      Slay a dragon... over lunch!
    9. Re:Buying a new computer by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Just demo the laptop before you buy it. The giveaway should be if you've got any mouse "ghosting" issues due to the flimsiness of the case. If the case isn't solid enough to type on without phantom mouse events occuring, then it's probably a good bet that the laptop isn't going to hold up.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:Buying a new computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, I'll take a drive, my parents need one. You can contact me at my spam account.
      Thanks!
      crapmail@follis.net

    11. Re:Buying a new computer by duffbeer703 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Get an AMEX card, pay with it and dispute any nonsense like this with them, you'll likely get your money back.

      A body shop pulled a similar stunt with my car after I was in an accident. The repairs that they made were of poor quality, and the insurance company refused to do anything since I didn't tow the car 50 miles to the nearest authorized center.

      Fortunately, I charged it to my amex blue card, and wrote them a letter describing the situation in detail. There was some back and forth with the body shop, but the end result was a $3,000 chargeback which allowed me to get the shoddy work replaced.

      --
      Conformity is the jailer of freedom and enemy of growth. -JFK
    12. Re:Buying a new computer by j-cloth · · Score: 1

      The world would be a much better place if people did what you are considering. If you don't like a company or its policies -- don't support them. Don't buy any of their products (Sony CDs, computers, TVs, Cameras, MD players, Playstations, etc....). Don't buy their stock and make sure your Mutual funds don't hold their stock. And especially -- don't work for them.
      It's a good thing all their movies suck or this could be a hard thing for me to stick to.
      You can hate a company all you want, but if you support them, your bile does nothing but cause stress and shorten your unhappy life.

    13. Re:Buying a new computer by dubbayu_d_40 · · Score: 2, Informative

      Wal-Mart and HP are rumored to be coming out with a $399 laptop this holiday season, and it actually sounds sweet (fyi, don't let AMD Sempron scare you, it is the Thoroughbred Athlon XP). You'll probably need to buy Windows seperately. Google has more details.

    14. Re:Buying a new computer by TuomasK · · Score: 1

      Stories like this make me really angry. Because the consumers always lose. How come the insurance comppany didn't pay for the laptop when you had the receipt of the Dell's repair work and the pictures of the broken laptop after the crash? I'm 100% sure insurance comppanies here in Finland would have paid, even to they are crooks also.

      --
      The truth or interpretation..
    15. Re:Buying a new computer by froi · · Score: 0

      Now that's paranoia. It would have made sense if you did it to boycott them, but because you're afraid of factory installed rootkits? Just format the freakin' harddrive and install a fresh copy of whatever OS you're using as soon as you get it. Takes 2 hours. Problem solved. Or do you think they'll be rootkitting you at the microcode level? In that case, you better invest in tinfoil rather than a new computer.

    16. Re:Buying a new computer by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Makes me wonder if the insurance company had a right to demand the replaced parts. A court might accept the repair bill from Dell as sufficient proof for the damage and make them pay up.
      Of course, this is no excuse for the broken promise by the Dell service.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    17. Re:Buying a new computer by Tom · · Score: 1

      will make me think twice about buying a Vaio.

      Good idea. I own one, and am pretty happy with it actually, but my next one won't be a Vaio again.

      Why? Shady business tactics. It is sold with bluetooth, in some ads they even make a point of it having bluetooth on-board.
      But the bluetooth they ship is a crippled bluetooth. Both the M$ (XP SP2) and the Sony drivers lack several profiles, among them the only one I need bluetooth for - the headset profile.
      You'd think there's a lot more bluetooth headsets around than bluetooth printers, fax machines or digital cameras, but some freaks at M$ and Sony think different.

      So the choice was losing 80 bucks for the headset and forgetting about it, or buying a bluetooth dongle, for a machine that is advertised as having bluetooth already.

      I know I'm not going to trust the Vaio specs ever again.

      --
      Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
    18. Re:Buying a new computer by ad0gg · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Umm.. if its not your insurance company, you don't have to follow their rules. Remember it was the others guys fault. Its there responsibility to pay for the damages they caused, they should be the ones calling dell to get the old parts. They want to be dicks about it, i'd say i'm starting to have neck problems and tell them i'm seeing a chiropracter. They'll settle right on the spot.

      --

      Have you ever been to a turkish prison?

    19. Re:Buying a new computer by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately there was no visible damage to the laptop, so I had no photographic evidence that it was broken, and I guess they wanted to make sure I didn't call Dell and ask them to replace and return my (perfectly functional) motherboard, getting them effectively to buy me a new free mobo.

      It's common practice in America for insurance companies to lay physical claim to objects which they've paid the full value of. For example, if they total your car (give you the market value of the car before the accident), they will always take the car when they do so. Really, the motherboard is no different, they paid the full replacement value of it, so they wanted it.

      --
      Slay a dragon... over lunch!
    20. Re:Buying a new computer by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      I mentioned in another comment that I can understand their desire on this front. It'd be easy enough for me to ask Dell to replace a totally good motherboard (they wouldn't ask questions, they profit from the replacement after all), and return me the old one. Then I'd have gotten the insurance company to buy me a new mobo, perhaps as an upgrade to my old one if the original model was no longer produced (in fact, the original model was not available any longer for my laptop, they did have to replace it with a newer one, though I never noticed any difference).

      --
      Slay a dragon... over lunch!
    21. Re:Buying a new computer by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
      Stay away from Dell too. After I was rear-ended in a car accident, my PCMCIA slot was damaged, but the machine worked fine otherwise...

      Take the Insurance Company and Dell to your Small Claims court. Include all you additional expenses (e.g. court filing fees, telephone charges) to the cost of your repair. Chances are good one or both of them will have to pay.

      --
      "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
    22. Re:Buying a new computer by nahdude812 · · Score: 1

      I think the principle is the same as totaling a car. When they totaled the car from that same accident, they towed it away and I had to sign the title over to get paid. They paid for it, they now own it.

      --
      Slay a dragon... over lunch!
    23. Re:Buying a new computer by dlZ · · Score: 1

      What insurance company was providing the payments to you? I was in a very bad accident October 2004, and my laptop was destroyed in it. Someone ran a red light in a 30 mph zone and smashed into my drivers side door going around 70 mph (I walked away with a small cut on my finger, btw. My 3 month 1 day old Hyundai Elantra wasn't so lucky, completely totaled.) The insurance claim completely covered my laptop.

      They originally wanted a receipt of repair, but I own a PC repair shop and this was one of my custom systems. So they took the receipts from my wholesaler for the parts and paid out on them, no mess with returning broken parts (which I could of if they wanted, but they never even brought it up.)

      I completely understand the situation with dealing with Dell, though. I take care of them for a lot of my customers because of the run around they like to give people. I tell the rep I'm calling from a PC repair shop on behalf of a customer, and they immediatly take care of the problem without a hassle. Maybe the trick is just saying you're a PC repair shop, they don't ask for any kind of proof.

      --
      rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp
    24. Re:Buying a new computer by PeteDotNu · · Score: 1

      "You'll probably need to buy Windows seperately"

      I think you meant to say "It doesn't come with an operating system." Don't make assumptions.

      --
      My other processor is big-endian.
    25. Re:Buying a new computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wouldn't worry too much about a factory-installed rootkit on a new Vaio. The music arm of Sony-BMG and the tech arm of Sony are most likely completely unrelated. Even if there are plans to distribute this DRM scheme on new machines, it is unlikely that they would distribute it on every new machine without widespread testing.

      I'm no expert, but I'm willing to bet that the small list of CDs that have this technology on them were the test run. Sony was hoping for a silent roll-out and no problems. Unfortunately, well... we've seen the problems.

      Besides... anyone else know where I can get a 2.8# laptop that's smaller than a piece of letter-sized paper?

    26. Re:Buying a new computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suggest getting your credit card company involved. You paid with a credit card, right? Notify your cc co. that you're dissatisfied. Have them go to work for you, and if it's still a problem, dispute the charge and screw Dell out of $800.

    27. Re:Buying a new computer by PeteDotNu · · Score: 1

      I've attempted to make a list of all the Sony products in my house, just out of curiosity. It's probably not complete, but it's up to a total of £700 already.

      Now, I'm not about to throw all this gear away just to prove a point, because that would be daft. But I am going to avoid putting any more money their way. I know that losing me as a customer probably doesn't matter that much to Sony, but I'm clearly not the only person who is planning on boycotting Sony.

      --
      My other processor is big-endian.
    28. Re:Buying a new computer by raddan · · Score: 1

      Now that you can't get real APM laptops anymore (IBM/Lenovo's T-series are the last few), and you have to buy an ACPI notebook, I highly recommend Panasonic Toughbooks. I have a CF-W2. The thing is rediculously light, great on batteries, and best of all, extremely durable. xorg worked with the default built-in xorg.conf, so I didn't even have to do any configuration. In OpenBSD, sleep and suspend don't work yet, but I suspect that it would probably work fine with Linux's limited ACPI support.

    29. Re:Buying a new computer by HermanAB · · Score: 1

      Wow, *you* have a PCMCIA slot? Hot damn. That must have hurt. I hope it doesn't interfere with the nose and lip rings...

      --
      Oh well, what the hell...
    30. Re:Buying a new computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      I know that Sony's actions here will make me think twice about buying a Vaio.


      I work in a university I.T. shop and own a VAIO and all I can say is: don't. I won't elaborate as my sandwich is getting cold, but I will give props to IBM/Lenovo, Apple, and Fujitsu.
    31. Re:Buying a new computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How the HELL did you survive that??? 70mph into your driver door... Jesus!

    32. Re:Buying a new computer by bigpat · · Score: 1

      So the insurance company wouldn't reimburse me, I spent $800 repairing a laptop that was not really worth that much (guess the insurance company should have totaled it), and it's all Dell's fault. They honestly didn't care.

      Well, if you had used a credit card, then you should have stopped payment for the services.

    33. Re:Buying a new computer by ipfwadm · · Score: 1

      When they totaled the car from that same accident, they towed it away and I had to sign the title over to get paid. They paid for it, they now own it.

      Uhhh... what? They didn't pay for the car, they paid for the amount of damage caused by their insured. Which, in this case, happened to be the full value of the car. I've never heard of a requirement that they get the car in such a case. Sure, you probably don't really want it anyway, but I can't see how reimbursement of damage can be tied to you giving up possession of your vehicle.

    34. Re:Buying a new computer by dlZ · · Score: 1
      How the HELL did you survive that??? 70mph into your driver door... Jesus!

      Pure luck I think. I only had a cut on my finger from the airbags going off (3 went off, driver side door, drivers side front, and passenger front.) I had a passenger in the car, and he was fine, too. The guy that hit me wasn't so good, he went up a lawn, over a hill, hit the edge of a garage roof (the driveway is cut into the hill, so the garage roof is only a bit above that part of the hill) and landed on top of another car. He survived, but with a lot of broken bones.

      --
      rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp
    35. Re:Buying a new computer by RipTides9x · · Score: 1

      I believe it depends on the state you live in. In the state I live in, when my car was totaled, my insurance company towed it away BEFORE they would cut me a check, told me it was SOP. They then settled with the other company for reimbursment.

      Yet, a friend of mine who lives in a different state, when his car was totaled drove the car over to his insurance company, picked his check up, and drove the car back home. He said other than the fact that it had become a sidewinder and the whole front end was held together with duct tape, he continued to use it as a fair-weather daily driver for nearly 6 more months. When he saved enough to put down for a new car (he got a very piddly insurance payout) he wasn't allowed to trade the old one in as it was listed as TOTALED on the title. So he picked up his new truck and drove the old car over to a scrapyard where he got a small payout from that as well.

      I believe these states, like mine, have it set that you cannot do what my friend did above, certainly driving around in a totaled car is unsafe. But more-so because its a true scam where people keep the totaled out car, repair it just enough to get them by, and then continue to drive it for years, while using the insurance payout to payoff the car or put in their pockets.

    36. Re:Buying a new computer by ipfwadm · · Score: 1

      But more-so because its a true scam where people keep the totaled out car, repair it just enough to get them by, and then continue to drive it for years, while using the insurance payout to payoff the car or put in their pockets.

      Why is it a scam? If somebody hits me and causes damage to my vehicle, I expect to be compensated for that damage. Whether I use that compensation to repair the vehicle is my business. When I was in an accident a few years ago I had the option to not repair the vehicle and just take the money; the value of the vehicle as far as the insurance company was concerned would have been reduced by the amount of the payout, so that if I filed a future claim the potential payout would have been commensurately less. Presumably it would also be so noted so I couldn't attempt to file a second claim for the same damage.

      If you only repair a totaled car enough to make it driveable, you've still lost the full value of the vehicle minus the amount you put into it to make it driveable. Which is exactly the same as the insurance money you'll have left after the repair. No one is profiting off of this. And as you mentioned, selling a previously-totaled car, no matter how much repair work has been done to it, is difficult because of the mark on the title.

    37. Re:Buying a new computer by Kanasta · · Score: 1

      I have a Vaio. Because of that, I will never buy another Sony product, and I have been telling all my friends to stay away from Sony products whenever they ask me for advice.
      Unless you plan to live in a Sony exclusive world AND never plan to be tech savvy, don't buy any Sony products.

    38. Re:Buying a new computer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Personally, I would have gone to the local insurance board. I don't know where you live, but here in CA, insurance companies have to reimburse you regardless of what body shop you chose. You are under no obligation to use an insurance company's "authorized repair centers" here. While you're at it, check with the licensing board next time before chosing a repair shop to find out if there's been previous problems with the establishment. Going to several shops for an informal estimate comparison also reveals the bad apples. If one shop wants to do a bunch of unnecessary things the others never mentioned like replacing unbroken tail light covers, you should probably steer clear.

    39. Re:Buying a new computer by Lehk228 · · Score: 1

      that was YOUR insurance company, you entered an agreement which said they would repair or pay you for the damage and they would get the damaged car.

      when it is someone else's insurance company they have to pay and work out the details between the insurance company and the person who is responsable for the damaged caused to your property

      --
      Snowden and Manning are heroes.
  14. More from Mark by Spad · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Looks like Sony aren't making it easy to get rid of their rootkit.

    Most Spyware has fewer hoops to jump through to uninstall it.

    1. Re:More from Mark by kpwoodr · · Score: 1

      Here's another link that give a breakdown of what this thing is really doing.

      I long for the good old days (late 90's) when music was free.

      --
      This sig has been removed pending an investigation.
  15. Please disregard. by RandoX · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    Misread the summary. Going for coffee now.

    (Slow down, Cowboy! We can't handle all these people posting at once!)

  16. Serves them right by Nerdposeur · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I'm not sure how Sony arrived at the decision to take over people's computers, but I can't see the morality of it. "People are stealing from us, so let's damage their property."

    In meatspace, this would be called "vigilante justice," but I'm not sure that large corporations qualify for that label.

    1. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      In meatspace, this would be called "vigilante justice,"
      Except that this "vigilante justice" damages innocent people who have paid Sony for the fucking song far more than it would pirates, who wouldn't buy the CD in the first place!

      I hate to sound melodramatic, but "terrorism" is closer to the meatspace equivalent than "vigilante justice". I hope Sony get nailed to the wall for this, seriously. I doubt it will happen, though :(

    2. Re:Serves them right by brajesh · · Score: 5, Informative
      and they aren't even apologetic about it. From this piece of news-

      Thomas Hesse, President of Sony BMG's global digital business division, showed up on NPR to try and sweep the entire thing under the rug.
      "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it," he asked? "The software is designed to protect our CDs from unauthorized copying, ripping."

      Pathetic
      --
      95% of all sigs are made up.
    3. Re:Serves them right by pfrCalif · · Score: 4, Insightful
      That's a good quote, would be work well for my buddy:
      "Most of the girls I've been with don't even know what rapid spreading gonorrhea is, so why should they care about it?"
    4. Re:Serves them right by hypergreatthing · · Score: 0

      You forgot to mention that they're out to hurt people who actually buy their cds. Not the ones that download the mp3s off the internet.

    5. Re:Serves them right by geoff+lane · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Did it work?

      Are Sony CDs distinquished by appearing less often on rips?

    6. Re:Serves them right by iainl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Most division presidents don't even know what their precise bank balance is, so why should they care if a fraudster helps themselves to a couple of hundred?

      --
      "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
    7. Re:Serves them right by Jeff+Carr · · Score: 1

      Hmmm, could almost as easily be...

      Thomas Hesse, President of Sony BMG's global digital business division, showed up on NPR to try and sweep the entire thing under the rug.

      "Most people, I think, don't even know what the brown note is, so why should they care about it showing up in their music?" he asked? "The note is designed to discourage users from unauthorized copying and ripping our CDs."

      --
      The television will not be revolutionized.
    8. Re:Serves them right by Tacky+the+Penguin · · Score: 1

      "People are stealing from us, so let's damage their property."

      That attitude might be slightly justifiable if everyone infected was guilty of stealing.

    9. Re:Serves them right by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Funny

      Even better:

              "Most girls don't even know what date rape is, so why should they care about it?"

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    10. Re:Serves them right by Gulik · · Score: 1

      In meatspace, this would be called "vigilante justice," but I'm not sure that large corporations qualify for that label.

      Actually, "vigilante justice" would require that they were only damaging the property of the people who they knew have actually stolen from them but can't prove it. In this, they're messing with everyone's property on the justification that some of those people might steal from them in the future. That's just bald-faced malice.

    11. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      More like: "Some pirates are stealing from us, so let's damage our paying customer's properties!"

    12. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm. I seem to have been modded "+1, Insightful". Typo?

    13. Re:Serves them right by JohnnyLocust · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the RIAA told Sony it would be a swell idea to try to pull this off. I've never considered Sony evil, but seriously missinformed about what consumers will tolerate. Heck, it took them over 15 years to realize that DRM was what was killing the sales of the miniDisc. Now that they've allowed them to play mp3s outright, they're going to drop the entire miniDisc line. Tragic.

      --
      Havoc Video
    14. Re:Serves them right by no_pets · · Score: 0

      But the people installing their software/rootkit are people that actually have a CD and have probably paid for it.

      If this is vigilante justice then this is a great example of why that brand of justice is illegal - it's like going after the wrong person.

      --
      "A government is a body of people, usually notably ungoverned." - Shepard Book Quoting Malcolm Reynolds
    15. Re:Serves them right by ozbird · · Score: 1

      Yes, but for a different reason. Have a look at the list of "protected" CDs; who in their right mind would want to rip them?

    16. Re:Serves them right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your "buddy" hey?

  17. Now they done it. by Somatic · · Score: 5, Funny

    You can piss off the consumers, the college kids, the geeks, the nerds, the haxx0rs, the artists, and even other people in the industry itself... but when you put that crap on a country CD, you just know some politician is going to buy it, and then you're screwed.

    --
    My script don't crash! She crashes, you crashed her!
    1. Re:Now they done it. by div_2n · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can piss off . . . the geeks

      I know you are being funny, but this is just a REALLY bad idea for a company that produces technology driven products. Who do family members turn to when they are considering dropping money on expensive technology products for advice? I know mine turn to me. Guess what I'm going to say from now on when they ask? "Whatever you do, don't buy a Sony product." Mine listen to me implicitly when I give such direct advice especially if I have suggestions to offer.

      Sony has made a mistake of epic proportions. Watch their sales numbers. I bet dollars to doughnuts it takes a drammatic drop.

    2. Re:Now they done it. by milimetric · · Score: 1

      i for one agree, now the problem is WHAT is a sony product. They're fucking ubiquitous, it's like saying don't buy shirts made in china. So is there an easy way that some geek out there has come up with to figure out what is Sony and what is not evil?

    3. Re:Now they done it. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      The only thing that upsets me is the idiots who don't know what they're doing and who also don't turn to people like me for advice. My mom has this one friend who keeps buying stupid things like Vaios and Chevrolets, and then wants me to fix her problems. But did she ask me before she bought them? No, of course not, because that would have been smart!

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:Now they done it. by dago · · Score: 1

      Yes, with something like that, it's quite easy to know if it's a sony product (for electronics).

      The real problem is for CD.

      --
      #include "coucou.h"
    5. Re:Now they done it. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      By that theory their sales should have taken a dramatic drop years ago, when they started with all this bullshit (e.g. ATRAC3, memory stick, their previous DRM'd CDs, etc.).

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    6. Re:Now they done it. by milimetric · · Score: 1

      and movies, and games, and god knows what else

  18. Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by captainktainer · · Score: 5, Informative

    Several things are important to point out:

    First, right now it isn't "California" as a whole suing Sony. An attorney has filed a class action lawsuit, and California citizens (and the world as a whole) will benefit. It would be nice if the California Attorney General would lend the government's support in an amicus curiae brief, but in media-rich California that isn't likely to happen. The representatives of the people of California haven't really weighed in on the matter yet, sadly.

    Second, a New York law firm will be next to join the bandwagon. Things are heating up faster than the article summary indicates

    Third, all of these lawsuits are going to hit Sony *hard*, right in the wallet. Any financial benefit they might have gained from their DRM will be lost unless the lawyers involved immediately drop their cases.

    Finally, Sony really doesn't have any solid defense against the charge that they violated the Consumer Protection Against Consumer Spyware Act, *unless* the act specifies that spyware can only be classified as such if it submits personally identifiable information back to the authors or a third party. I'm not too clear on that regard- anyone have information they can add on that count?

    1. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by mccdyl001 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Actually, the sony media player does send back personal information - it checks for the latest lyrics and album art for any CD you play through it. So at the least they can collect CD being played, time of day and IP address of computer playing it. That to me is spyware..

    2. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by Phreakiture · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Second, a New York law firm will be next to join the bandwagon. Things are heating up faster than the article summary indicates

      This is more important than you think.... Looking back to an earlier post, where the EULA was quoted, we have this:

      THE VALIDITY, INTERPRETATION AND LEGAL EFFECT OF THIS EULA SHALL BE GOVERNED BY, AND CONSTRUED IN ACCORDANCE WITH, THE LAWS OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK APPLICABLE TO CONTRACTS ENTERED INTO AND PERFORMED ENTIRELY WITHIN THE STATE OF NEW YORK (WITHOUT GIVING EFFECT TO ANY CONFLICT OF LAW PRINCIPLES UNDER NEW YORK LAW). THE NEW YORK COURTS (STATE AND FEDERAL), SHALL HAVE SOLE JURISDICTION OF ANY CONTROVERSIES REGARDING THIS AGREEMENT; ANY ACTION OR OTHER PROCEEDING WHICH INVOLVES SUCH A CONTROVERSY SHALL BE BROUGHT IN THOSE COURTS IN NEW YORK COUNTY AND NOT ELSEWHERE.

      So, as you can see, we here in New York have the ability to toast this thing.

      At this point, because all of the legal boilerplate that Sony put in is in all caps, I am going to just blather on for a bit because Slashdot's fucking lameness filter kicked in. It really sucks that I can't get a legitimate post through. Really. I honestly had a solid point, but the lameness filter is, well, lame.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    3. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by z0idberg · · Score: 1

      *unless* the act specifies that spyware can only be classified as such if it submits personally identifiable information back to the authors or a third party. I'm not too clear on that regard- anyone have information they can add on that count?

      It phones home with the CD id that you are playing. So they also have time and your IP address.
      IP address is apparently good enough as identification to get sued with for file sharing so they are probably screwed on that front too.

      So either it is enough, so they are screwed on this one, or it isnt and the prosecution for P2P law suits just got a lot weaker.

      As Nelson would say - HA-ha!

    4. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

      I'd consider what CDs I play and when I play them, as well my IP address, none of their bloody business. As I see it, unless someone has a compelling reason to know, then anything I do is my private business.

    5. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by LnxAddct · · Score: 1

      Even if spyware is defined as sending back personally identifiable data, Sony kind of broke that too. Downloading the uninstaller requires you to fill out two forms (one with your email address which emails you a url to another form).
      Regards,
      Steve

    6. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by Pakaran2 · · Score: 1

      I suspect that spyware can only be counted as such if it's not written by one of the state's biggest employers. I can't see North Carolina joining one of the tobacco lawsuits.

    7. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by jafac · · Score: 1

      Bullshit.

      This is just a political shakedown.

      The next presidential candidate will be approached by Sony with a 7 or 8 figure campaign contribution.
      When that candidate wins, the DoJ will shut down these court cases - just like Bush had Ashcroft shut down MS vs DoJ.

      Yes, it will cost Sony big bucks. But not in the way that you think.

      --

      These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
    8. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 1

      the lesson I take from this, at the 50,000 foot level is:

      there is no real money in software engineering anymore. kids, don't even bother going for a technical degree.

      BUT - the lawyers, in the years to follow, will make a killing.

      lesson: go to law school - there IS a future in that. america is cutting back on tech but it has a very promising future for litigation...

      (I'm actually very serious. and if I was a 20yr old kid, I'd be switching to law right now instead of EE or comp sci. really.)

      on topic: even though the users won't see much real money, sony will get a big bloody nose. and for THAT, I will celebrate.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
  19. Well, how's this for irony? by Chibineko · · Score: 3, Funny

    From the list of Infected CDs:
    Our Lady Peace, Healthy in Paranoid Times

    Hrmmm....

    1. Re:Well, how's this for irony? by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

      Even better:
      The Coral, The Invisible Invasion
      The Bad Plus, Suspicious Activity

      --
      The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
    2. Re:Well, how's this for irony? by nutshell42 · · Score: 1
      From the list of Infected CDs:
      Our Lady Peace, Healthy in Paranoid Times

      Van Zant, Get Right with the Man
      The Bad Plus, Suspicious Activity
      The Coral, The Invisible Invasion
      Switchfoot, Nothing is Sound
      Celine Dion, On ne Change Pas

      Someone at Sony had a lot of fun selecting the CDs for their DRM test-run

      --
      Don't think of it as a flame---it's more like an argument that does 3d6 fire damage
  20. Aim at foot, pull trigger by Dekortage · · Score: 4, Informative

    From the article: "Sony's move is the latest effort by the entertainment companies to rely on controversial 'digital rights management' (DRM) technologies to reverse a steady drop in sales that the industry attributes in large part to piracy facilitated by online music and movie file-sharing networks like Kazaa and Limewire."

    Yeah, because installing secretive, privacy-invading software on your computer is sure to stimulate CD sales.

    And the uninstall process is a privacy invasion too... you gotta fill out an online form, check your email for a URL to ANOTHER online form, then get the uninstaller. And while the uninstaller gets rid of the XCP2 Aurora, it simultaneously installs another DRM (MediaJam). Nice. Sony, how I love thee. You're so sinister.

    --
    $nice = $webHosting + $domainNames + $sslCerts
    1. Re:Aim at foot, pull trigger by doublem · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Well, there go my plans to buy a PlayStation 3.

      Guess I'll get the next Nintendo Game Cube instead.

      --
      "Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
    2. Re:Aim at foot, pull trigger by nine-times · · Score: 1
      Yeah, because installing secretive, privacy-invading software on your computer is sure to stimulate CD sales.

      Not only that, but does anyone think that this diminishes the music's presence on P2P networks? Ok, so let's say I'm Joe Stupid, and I go home with my new Sony CD and try to rip it. Doesn't work, so I can't put the file up on P2P. That's Sony's plan, right?

      And that might work, if we were all stupid (or just technologically ignorant). However, all it really takes is 1 guy who can figure out how to rip it. I P2P sharer rips it, and suddenly it's available for download. And people who were going to download it will download it anyhow, and they'll share it, and the network will become populated, same as before.

      The only difference I can really imagine, now, is that some of Sony's customers won't want to buy Sony CDs because of the restrictive DRM (and damage to the user's home PC). Therefore, some people who might have purchased CDs will now find downloads to be a far more appealing, since they don't damage your computer.

      Something is wrong when business seeks to improve sales by offering a worse product.

  21. Boycotting DRM *forever* by snotclot · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I wonder if whichever genius Sony/BMG exec did this is fired already... surely the other Sony branches love this publicity. Do people think this will eventually harm or even dent Sony's brand image? As a fellow computer saavy user here on Slashdot I'm already trying to actively, personally boycott Sony and any company that is bent on using DRM. And you guys say, what if Intel and AMD both DRM there chips? Surely, I can't boycott computers in general can I? But there HAS to be a few clever electrical and computer engineers out there who will make a new company *specifically* to have non-drm chips. Sure, it costs millions in R&D. But at the time that DRM is in chips making a retro x86 compatabile CPU that can be fabbed in Taiwan/China shouldn't be too hard should it?

    1. Re:Boycotting DRM *forever* by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      what if Intel and AMD both DRM there (sic) chips?

      That leaves Via. Unfortunately, their chips aren't very powerful, but they are very energy-efficient and don't generate a lot of heat.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    2. Re:Boycotting DRM *forever* by Darth+Maul · · Score: 1

      "what if Intel and AMD both DRM there chips?"

      IF??? Surely you are joking. It's already upon us with the whole Trusted Computing thing with Intel in bed with Microsoft to make us all safer. Think of the children!

      I feel sorry for CS students and other folks interested in tinkering with software and hardware. In five years, it will be so difficult as to not be fun, and be far from a learning experience anymore. You will have to use Trusted Software and only do things that The Man wants you to do.

      --
      --- witty signature
    3. Re:Boycotting DRM *forever* by snotclot · · Score: 1

      Well if its already upon us then I weep for the future.

      Good thing as one of the above posters commented we have open source, so we can all jump to Linux. Transferring from MS Windows shouldn't be too bad, we just need to convert all our docs to Staroffice format, convert our Outlook express email archives, and our media (jpgs and mp3s and avis) are allready playable on Linux anyways.

      Perhaps the one thing we'd give up is gaming. Good thing consoles can save the day then. I'm not usually one to support consoles, but maybe they do have some good use after all..

  22. good news by coredump-0x00001 · · Score: 0

    This is great news for everyone outraged over sony's deceptive practices. Hopefully, this will send a message to all major record labels who may be considering similar tactics. There is no justification for sony's actions and it's great to see people standing up for what's right. Please, everyone back up your bmg cd's and toss them into a public bonfire and join the boycott!

  23. Did you look at the list of "protected" CDs? by Weatherman-au · · Score: 5, Funny

    I mean, come on, Sony! Celine Dion? Neil Diamond? Ricky Martin??

    If you were really serious about XCP as a means to prevent illicit copying, in order to protect your revenue, how about applying it to music that people would want to download?

    1. Re:Did you look at the list of "protected" CDs? by xtracto · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Sure, you may think that music is really crapastic, but the reallity is that those artists are the ones that get the into the billboard 10 and get the platinium, titanium, uranium etc prizes for disc selling.

      Of course, one could argue that, people which know how to actually copy CD's are the ones that do not listen to that music (i.e. the not average J6Pack). But, some of them use their knowledge to pirate & sell the illegal copies. I presume (*I hope*) those are the persons which sony was aiming when applying this (or any other) kind of DRM security.

      Now, they really messed it when they blocked the ability to copy the music to the iPod since it is one 100% legit use of a ripper/mp3-encoder (Kudos go to Apple on this) and it is very, very, VERY widespread.

      I would really love to see some of these lawsuits continue until a nice end. I hope this serves as the spark that was needed to show the USA people how invaded your privacy is. And how have your government took your rights and introduced them into i-dont-tell-you-where.

      As some other slashdotter said before, USA citizens are lazy, they wont be pissed off about something until it trasspases their "lazzyness-level", the cable-with-advetisments, the game-consoles-without-chips, the DMCA, etc etc...

      I have been monitoring this Sony matter for some days, and I am glad to see it has escalated in the SciTech Google news section, from an obscure search "intitle:Sony intitle:DRM" to a 3rd place in the list (just suprassed by bill gates self-leaked memo and some other digital election thing".

      If the correct people (we) make things correctly, this could be that spark that we needed to shake those lazy sixpackers that are staring at the TV or at hallmark.com

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    2. Re:Did you look at the list of "protected" CDs? by RubberDogBone · · Score: 1

      The Neil Diamond disc is actually pretty darn good. I bought that one for my mom. She's senile so she thinks it's suddenly Christmas. But the disc makes her happy.

      And yeah, the stupid CD IS infected with the rootkit. Thankfully mom doesn't know how to play CDs on her computer and wouldn't ever try that anyway.

      EAC had no problem at all ripping songs from it, so Sony prevented nothing. I'm going to make a copy of the CD so mom can lose it (she will). And then I will make another copy and give that to her. And so on. What Sony thinks about this is their problem.

      --
      Sig for hire.
    3. Re:Did you look at the list of "protected" CDs? by ichigo+2.0 · · Score: 1

      I listen to Ricky Martin, you insensitive clod!


      No wait, I take that back.

    4. Re:Did you look at the list of "protected" CDs? by Phreakiture · · Score: 1

      how about applying it to music that people would want to download?

      I think this may have been a test market. Try it out on some popular, but not too popular, titles, and see if it flies. They now have their answer.

      --
      www.wavefront-av.com
    5. Re:Did you look at the list of "protected" CDs? by Weatherman-au · · Score: 1

      Sure, you may think that music is really crapastic, but the reallity is that those artists are the ones that get the into the billboard 10 and get the platinium, titanium, uranium etc prizes for disc selling.

      Of course, one could argue that, people which know how to actually copy CD's are the ones that do not listen to that music (i.e. the not average J6Pack). But, some of them use their knowledge to pirate & sell the illegal copies. I presume (*I hope*) those are the persons which sony was aiming when applying this (or any other) kind of DRM security.

      While I do think most of that music is pretty sad (and the rest is by artists that I don't know), I was thinking more of those discs' desirability to people who would usually be downloading them.

      You raise a good point regarding people ripping those CDs and then selling the copies. However, if they have the volition and ability to mass produce them like that, they're very likely to be able to bypass whatever "protection" scheme is in place, right?

      So if the "protection" is in place because of the ability of people to copy and then sell them, it's still useless -- those people will just get around it anyway, and Joe Sixpack still isn't affected as such.

  24. Cashing in. by ivan+kk · · Score: 1, Interesting

    It'd be interesting if people after hearing of these lawsuits proceeded to buy a copy of the cds only to cash in on the lawsuits.

    1. Re:Cashing in. by pfrCalif · · Score: 1

      If the class action lawsuit is like most other's around, probably not worth it. If they win the laywer will get $$$$ and the affected parties will all a $10 sony gift certificate.

    2. Re:Cashing in. by z0idberg · · Score: 1

      somelawyerguy:"hey buddy, I have this lawsuit coming up, we are going to stick it to the man big time. we have a rock solid case, we cant lose. are you in?"

      me: "really? sounds sweet"

      somelawyerguy:"yeah - we are talking thousands of dollars for each claimant at least"

      me:"cool, what do I have to do?"

      somelawyerguy:"all you need to do is buy this Celine Dion CD and play it on your computer once"

      me: "no thanks"

    3. Re:Cashing in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Heres your cashing in,
      The trial lawyers get a few Millon,while the members of the class get Crap!
      It has always worked this way and likely always will.
      So what your cashing in on is already floating in your toilet , So go fetch your cache!

  25. Serious work issue by RoboProg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This poses a potential problem for me, as I like to listen to my CDs at work (ripped to MP3 format, of course). Security is a real issue at work, to their credit. I can't have my music installing spyware on my employer's PC.

    HELLO SONY! You are making your stuff unusable! Cease & desist, and all that.

    --
    Yow! I'm supposed to have a plan?
    1. Re:Serious work issue by RoboProg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Never mind: I see one of the other posters has kindly provided the EULA, which says I can't listen to (what otherwise would have been) my music at work anyway.

      Problem "solved"

      Caveat emptor! (read label, avoid zombie un-CDs)

      --
      Yow! I'm supposed to have a plan?
  26. mod parent up by TheNationalist · · Score: 2, Informative

    The summary is completely misleading and would have a casual reader believe that the Attorney General of California is suing Sony. This is merely a class action lawsuit by some lawyer on behalf of California citizens.

    --
    Check out this guy's BZFlag cheat client!
  27. Re:I understand the first two... MOD parent up by erbmjw · · Score: 1

    Thanks for the information.

  28. Nice list of CDs.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Trey Anastasio, Shine (Columbia)
    Celine Dion, On ne Change Pas (Epic)
    Neil Diamond, 12 Songs (Columbia)
    Our Lady Peace, Healthy in Paranoid Times (Columbia)
    Chris Botti, To Love Again (Columbia)
    Van Zant, Get Right with the Man (Columbia)
    Switchfoot, Nothing is Sound (Columbia)
    The Coral, The Invisible Invasion (Columbia)
    Acceptance, Phantoms (Columbia)
    Susie Suh, Susie Suh (Epic)
    Amerie, Touch (Columbia)
    Life of Agony, Broken Valley (Epic)
    Horace Silver Quintet, Silver's Blue (Epic Legacy)
    Gerry Mulligan, Jeru (Columbia Legacy)
    Dexter Gordon, Manhattan Symphonie (Columbia Legacy)
    The Bad Plus, Suspicious Activity (Columbia)
    The Dead 60s, The Dead 60s (Epic)
    Dion, The Essential Dion (Columbia Legacy)
    Natasha Bedingfield, Unwritten (Epic)
    Ricky Martin, Life (Columbia)
     
    Apart from Celine and The Coral, I've never heard of any of them. Maybe they should spend money on trying to market and sell these, rather than trying to piss people off?
     

    1. Re:Nice list of CDs.. by theurge14 · · Score: 2, Funny

      There's no harm in not knowing who Trey Anastasio is (lead singer/guitarist of Phish), but not being able to acknowledge the greatness that is Neil Diamond and Ricky Martin frightens and confuses me.

    2. Re:Nice list of CDs.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But, didn't they just create a whole load of sites listing a bunch of CDs, that people have never heard of which everyone will now go to and check if they have them... ain't no such thing as bad advertising and all that

    3. Re:Nice list of CDs.. by Itanshi · · Score: 1

      saw life of agnoty live. Thats a dang good band and one of them i bet people bought a lot of.

      Ah man i wonder if my buddy bought that *calls him*

    4. Re:Nice list of CDs.. by n17ikh · · Score: 1

      I saw Acceptance live and my buddy bought Phantoms. Says he's having trouble ripping the music to his computer - I think "Sony." I walk over, and of course, they're signed with Sony. Now I'm going to have to get that crap off his computer.

      Also, Switchfoot is actually a pretty big band nowadays with 3 or 4 albums out, huge in the angsty teen sector, as is Acceptance and possibly several others on that list.

      --
      Hard work pays off tomorrow, but procrastination pays off NOW!
  29. Will California also sue ... by maxwell+demon · · Score: 1

    ... against SandStorm?

    --
    The Tao of math: The numbers you can count are not the real numbers.
  30. DMCA defense? by hrm · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I hope this goes to court and triggers Sony into mounting an DMCA based defense ("this is our copy protection system, and you don't mess with that shit even if does screw your PC"), then maybe people would get a better understanding of what a rotten law the DMCA actually is.

  31. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  32. in similar news by coredump-0x00001 · · Score: 5, Informative

    Pestpatrol ad/spyware remover now detects and removes sony's DRM rootkit hats off to eTrust for that.

    1. Re:in similar news by Purplephred · · Score: 1

      Finally! Props to them!

  33. No Thank You by lbmouse · · Score: 0

    It'll be interesting to see who is getting in on this lawsuit. In other words, who would actually admit in legal documents that they purchased one of the following?

    Trey Anastasio, Shine (Columbia)
    Celine Dion, On ne Change Pas (Epic)
    Neil Diamond, 12 Songs (Columbia)
    Ricky Martin, Life (Columbia)

    1. Re:No Thank You by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the fuck are you taking about?

  34. For Everything Else There's... by Bad+to+the+Ben · · Score: 5, Funny

    - DRM rootkit to stop piracy: $50,000,000
    - Patch to water-down DRM rootkit: $5,000,000
    - Top notch lawyers to sue pirates: $100,000,000
    - Being sued by the only legitimate users you have: Priceless.

    There are some thought processes money can't buy. For everything else there's MasterTard (tm).

  35. I see stupid people. by Phoenix · · Score: 4, Insightful

    And people wonder why I haven't bought a single CD in the past 5 years that didn't come from an independant artist. Sony will just have to lable me as a heathen devil commie mutant anti-social pirating slime bag since I now get all my music from other sources besides the traditional record industry. First it was a copy protection that killed my CD-Rom drive and my Car Stereo, now we have a major company turning into a @#$%ing hacker with intent on screwing up my system just to keep me from using thier music in THIER OWN MP3 PLAYER.

    Yes, I love the fact that Sony wants to sell me a MP3 player and MP3 compatable CD and DVD players, but doesn't want me to actually USE the damn things to listen to thier music.

    Go Figure.

    The other stupid thing is the simple fact that there is no copy protection that has lasted more than 2 weeks before it was cracked, and at times in the most embarrasing way imaginable.

    The one that cost millions to develop and was cracked using a $1.25 Sharpie marker jumps to mind.

    Frankly I hope the music industry dies. I'm just so utterly sick to death about the whole goddamn thing I want it gone.

    Phoenix

    --
    -- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
    1. Re:I see stupid people. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

      I don't know if may people here are old enough to remember computer games on floppy diskettes, but similar things happened back in the mid 1980's. I even remember a couple of articles by John Divorak stating that copy protected floppy diskettes should end.

      I remember that PC-Mag started publishing lists of copy protected games and non-copy protected games. It wasn't long after that, that there were no more copy protected games on diskette. I believe that was one of the reasons why the Original DOOM game was released as shareware.

      Nathan

    2. Re:I see stupid people. by pqdave · · Score: 1

      Sony DOESNT want to sell you an MP3 player. They want to sell you an Atrac or however they spell their DRM players. Apparently the buying public won't cooperate, and wants real MP3 players, and printing

      MP3*
      *Windows software included to translate MP3 to our proprietary DRM format included

      on the packaging isn't enough.

  36. I actually bought one of these... by OolonColluphid · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... and the part I love best is that I actually need to rip the thing before it wrecks my CD player. I bought the "DualDisc" version of the Trey Anastasio CD they show in the EFF write-up. Every time I put it in my 10 year old Sony CD player, it makes a horrible racket. One of my friends is having trouble playing it in his portable because it's so thick that it's brushing the lid. I'm afraid to put it in the car disc player for fear that it will get stuck.

    Besides putting a personal ban on buying any more Sony junk, and doing my best to avoid buying any albums on their label, I will also be writing to the artist and urging others to do the same.

    1. Re:I actually bought one of these... by Red+Flayer · · Score: 4, Funny

      "I bought the "DualDisc" version of the Trey Anastasio CD they show in the EFF write-up. Every time I put it in my 10 year old Sony CD player, it makes a horrible racket."

      Funny, same thing happens when my wife plays the Celine Dion CD. But I think in my case, the horrible racket is the intended output.

      --
      "Trolls they were, but filled with the evil will of their master: a fell race..." -- J.R.R. Tolkien on Olog-hai
    2. Re:I actually bought one of these... by Hatta · · Score: 1

      Take it back, you were sold defective merchandise. And write Trey a letter, I doubt he had anything to do with this. I'm sure he'd like to know that his publisher is alienating fans.

      Whatever you do, for the love of god don't lend it to anyone, lest they get infected.

      --
      Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
    3. Re:I actually bought one of these... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man I was pissed when I saw Trey at the top of that list, NOW they've just gone too fucking far, those bastards.

    4. Re:I actually bought one of these... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The CD side of the DualDisc's that I have purchase don't work very well. So I copied the music off of the DVD side onto a CD that I know plays in my car. Any sound / music non-linear editing suite worth it's salt can record from Wave. I used Audacity, because I had it, and it's easy, but there are various programs out there that do this. I know it's an extra step, but well worth it to make the headaches go away. Tried explaining to my wife why the disc wouldn't work and why we should return in, but it just turned out to be easier to copy it to something that does work.

  37. ALCEI claims rootkit is a virus by swissfondue · · Score: 5, Interesting
    As linked through other Slashdot posts, the ALCEI (the Italian Electronic Frontiers organization) http://www.alcei.org/index.php/archives/105, has a different tactic. They refer to F-Secure http://www.f-secure.com/v-descs/xcp_drm.shtml in order to sue Sony for propagating a virus named "XCP DRM Software".

    This opens another plan of attack which I think will have more chance of succeeding (at least for public mind-share. I can't judge the legal value of the argument).

    --
    Rubies and Pearls are not what you think.
    1. Re:ALCEI claims rootkit is a virus by batkiwi · · Score: 1

      It doesn't replicate or spread, so it's technically malware, not a virus.

    2. Re:ALCEI claims rootkit is a virus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It may replicate (boot sector to boot sector like the stoned virus and it's ilk). Otherwise how does it prevent the copy from being copied?

      It's not a worm. I'm pretty sure of that. Other than that, they've managed to nail a surprising number of malware bases in one convenient retail package.

      The next question is: Is it a boycott if you wouldn't buy their products anyways?

  38. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Dogtanian · · Score: 4, Insightful

    t's important to make sure that the major labels realise that while DRM is legal, there are limits to what people will tolerate - and damaging peoples machines is not something that people are going to tolerate.

    It's not simply a question of tolerance or not; some DRM may be "legal", but (IANAL) installing a root-kit on someone's machine without notification or permission almost certainly isn't. If they get away with this, it'll be because they have better lawyers, not because by any reasonable judgement it is "legal".

    Of course, I hope it kicks up a stink for Sony too, but that's beside the point.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  39. Correction: by GungaDan · · Score: 5, Funny

    $sys$woohoo... ;-)

    --
    Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
    1. Re:Correction: by swissfondue · · Score: 1

      This looks as it will become a Slashdot classic in-joke. "To hide something" =$sys$

      --
      Rubies and Pearls are not what you think.
    2. Re:Correction: by Viper+Daimao · · Score: 1

      Just what we need, more slashdot in-jokes...

      $sys$suckers

      --
      "In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
    3. Re:Correction: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      md $sys$pr0n

    4. Re:Correction: by Viper+Daimao · · Score: 1

      only took 6 hours

      --
      "In the game of life, someone always has to lose. To me, if life were fair, that someone would always be Oklahoma." -DKR
  40. And the only people to benefit... by curtvdh · · Score: 1

    ...are the lawyers, as usual. Or maybe not. Even if the lawyers get rich from these lawsuits, and the persons most affected (i.e. the consumers) get a coupon good for one happy meal at McDonalds (sans toy), there is till the possibility of a 'chilling effect'.

    Basicaly, if other labels decide to implement full-scale DRM, even if it is largely innocuous, they may think twice about the scheme once they see Sony getting their pants sued off. If so, this would be a win for consumers. Who says trickle-down justice doesn't work?

  41. Speaking as a Sony shareholder by shanen · · Score: 1
    As a Sony shareholder, I sent them an angry email message, and got back nothing but a very feeble robotic reply. I sent back an even angrier response (but much shorter). There was an acknowledgment, but not even a robotic reply so far.

    Durability problems with Sony products had discouraged me from buying their stuff, but I was really annoyed when the abandoned the CLIEs and left me orphaned. So now they're reducing the odds of buying from them close to zero and increasing the odds of my selling my stock. Seems like a pretty lousy way to run a company.

    By the time they suck it up and apologize, no one is going to believe them. Anyway, I can't imagine anything they could do to make the apology sincere, short of going out of business.

    --
    Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
  42. Quite a while ago... by BJH · · Score: 1

    ...a class action suit against Toshiba for a fault in the floppy drives used in some of their laptops resulted in a decision that cost them over wo billion dollars.
    What's notable is that in the Toshiba case, not one person came forward to show that the fault had actually caused any data loss.
    In this case, Sony is now responsible for every bit of malware that utilises their moronic rootkit to hide itself. It's worth noting that there's already one backdoor out there that does this...

  43. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Jarnis · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Problem: There is absolutely no way to prevent a computer from ripping audio CD tracks without interfering the abilities/programs of the computer.

    ABSOLUTELY NO WAY.

    None.

    Red Book audio tracks have certain format. Said format supports no copy protections/DRM/whatever crap.

    This format is easily readable by gazillions of CD ripping programs. Unless you create a new format that does not play on normal audio CD players (not gonna happen), there is absolutely no way to prevent this.

    So, essentially, if you disable windows autorun, you are immune to all 'copyprotections' and 'DRM' on CD:s. Some 'add errors to audio' things might need a specialized program, but they are going out of fashion as those CDs do not play in great number of audio CD players.

    DVD audio is protected, but the masses are not biting. I wonder why...

    Sony etc. cannot possibly 'win' this battle, unless they can legislate a protection for their practice of hosing people's computers. DMCA pretty much does that, but this time their nice 'DRM' went few miles too far and ran into few other things that are in the law books, and now Sony is going to get so throughoutly PWNED by this (I *pray* this class action laywer wont settle, I want Sony to be convicted), that they'll hopefully remember it in the future when devising braindead schemes to 'protect' CDs that are, by definition, impossible to 'protect' from copying (another word for 'playing')

  44. Two thoughts by BigPoppaT · · Score: 3, Interesting
    1) In organizations where security/privacy is mandated (due to HIPAA, SOX, and other legislation) I expect the ISOs (Information Security Officers) will begin prohibiting the use of audio CDs in PCs. This will probably help Sony's competitor Apple more than it will help Sony, because it will drive iPod sales.

    2) Here's a link where you can communicate to Sony how you feel about the rootkit situation. I used this link to send the following to Sony:
    I want you know that I will never purchase any Sony product again until: a) the VP who approved your rootkit is fired; and b) Sony promises not to do anything like this again. I have never pirated a CD, and I use Linux (so this rootkit would not affect me), but you have effectively declared war on your customers. So, I will refuse to be one of your customers from now on. I am giving you this feedback because I wanted you know why I am boycotting you. I believe that Sony should be accountable for its actions.
    I didn't submit this anonymously. Here is the email reply they sent me (pretty much a form letter):
    Thanks for visiting Sony Music Online and for your feedback. We appreciate (and encourage) all suggestions and comments. As you can imagine, we receive quite a few email messages every day. While we would like to respond to each of them individually, we often do not have the time and resources to do so. Be assured that I will pass your comments on to the parties most responsible for dealing with them. Have you checked out our FAQ page? Perhaps you will be able to find the answer to your questions there: http://www.sonymusic.com/help/faq/ Thanks again for your note and the time spent on Sony Music Online.
    The most helpful thing about the faq was seeing which record labels are Sony. Unfortunately, Columbia Records is one of them - so I won't be buying the new System of A Down album when it comes out in a couple of weeks. That hurts, but in good conscience I just can't do business with Sony. If people buy Sony products in spite of this, Sony wins. So, no System CD for me, no PS3 for you gamers, no Vaio for you Mac-wannabes, etc. Don't just complain - let them know why you're boycotting, then actually do it.
    1. Re:Two thoughts by mochan_s · · Score: 1

      I heard that System of a Down is the new Rage Against the Machine. Political messages, anti-large corporation music being peddled by a large corporation. Their next song will proably be something along the lines of RATM's "renegades of funk" ... a total joke. A couple of years down the line you'll be glad you never got the CD.

    2. Re:Two thoughts by Keith+Russell · · Score: 1
      Their next song will proably be something along the lines of RATM's "renegades of funk" ... a total joke.

      The title track to Hypnotize is already getting airplay around here. They namedrop Tiananmen Square in the first line. They aren't going soft on us yet.

      What I'm worried about is that Sony will pull a sort of bait-and-switch on Mesmerize/Hypnotize: Release Mesmerize clean, then drop the rootkit on Hypnotize. If I'm Serj or Daron, I'm rattling cages at Sony to make sure that doesn't happen. If it does, I think Serj will become the anti-Lars Ulrich.

      (And let's just agree to disagree on "Renegades of Funk", shall we?)

      --
      This sig intentionally left blank.
    3. Re:Two thoughts by mochan_s · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dude, I used to be like you - only 5 years ago shifted. It was Tom was pissed that Napster users got kicked out for downloading their album tracks, and Zach did that and all.

      Now, Tom is a fat sell-out on Audioslave and who knows where Zach is.

      My point is how can you even trust someone whose music is being peddled by Sony? They're in the same list as Celine Dion and Van Zant.

    4. Re:Two thoughts by bhsx · · Score: 1

      I am a long-time fan of your electronic products, starting with the ubiquitous Walkman of the 80's. Sony had established itself as an inventive leader in the electronics space. I even held on to my BetaMax for years after it had lost the VCR wars because it was better technology. I've owned a lemon of a Vaio for a few months, but had enough issues with it, that I had to hock it for a Dell. That didn't put me off from buying two PS ones and TWO PS2s, plus plenty of games. System of a Down is a fantastically inventive band. True inovators and I was glad when they signed to such a major label as Columbia Records. I will not, however, be buying their new double-album. This has nothing to do with them, unfortunately, and everything to do with the rootkit fiasco Sony has brought upon itself. I know I'm not alone in deciding that Sony has made a terrible turn on its customers. I will no longer be buying any Sony products and will pass this tip on to those who ask my opinion (which happens quite often as the main technology guy for a somewhat large community and family). This can be remedied. You can regain our trust. You need to admit the error in judgement in a very open press release. You need to acknowledge that this will never happen again. You need to face the coming litigation with humility, and show that Sony understands what it did wrong. You need to put some rigid policies in place to make sure your entire image isn't squandered by the policy decisions of a VP or two. Do these in earnest, do them honestly, and you will regain my faith in your brand name. Believe that I am not alone in that either. The XBOX 360 is not a piece of tech that I look forward to. The PS3 has been in my mind's eye for way too long, please do your best to recover from this situation so that I can relish a new console purchase next year. Otherwise, you're lost plenty-a customer, probably for life. This was my letter. I'm hoping to be diplomatic enough to get more than a form-letter response. We'll see; but, um, I kinda doubt it.

      --
      put the what in the where?
  45. Not only it is Lame, it contains.... by onkl · · Score: 3, Interesting

    In Dutch newslogs, it is mentioned now that the rootkit is using parts of the (LGPL) LAME-encoder. So, should their rootkit be open-source then? "Script kiddies unite, fight for your source code rights" I'd fear. Below some babelfished Dutch. (from Webwereld.nl) Thursday 10 November 2005, 09.59 - the spyware which Sony on the computers of muziekfans install do not seem not only technical, but even also copyright in the hook. In the rootkit pieces code appear sit which is identical to LAME, open source mp3-encoder. The licentie is exceeded. Concerning software exercises the copyright with the so-called Lesser Gnu Public License (LGPL). According to this licentie Sony must satisfy requirements to a number of. Thus they must tell that they use software in a copyright notice. Also the company the source code of open-sourcelibraries must provide or available to make. Finally the tussenvorm between must make source code and feasible code, the so-calledobject traffic-jams, meeleveren or available, with which others can make similar software. Sony have only satisfied to none of these requirements, but provide a feasible programme. A computer expert, of whom the name is confessed at the redactie, discovered that on the cd Get Right With The man of Van Zant strings from the library version.c of Lame sits. This is make up from the string: "http://www.mp3dev.org/", "0.90", "LAME3.95", "3.95", "3.95". But the expert has more proof. This way there so-called array largetbl sit at a place in the programme go.exe. This is a part that is used in the module tables.c of libmp3lame. The discovery is possible far-reaching consequences has on the muziekgigant, which themselves claim only protect the copyrights. Rather judges in Germany forced several companies already make the source code public and the required spullen for compiling to provide. Also it is possible claim damageses. Meanwhile details also other become clearly and this way complain the Electronic frontier foundation which the spyware make also legal listening music on iPods impossible. The organisation is busy with a list of cd's which publishes hidden programmatuur meeleveren to make and these on the Internet site. Wouter Rutten of the NVPI emphasise that the commotie for Dutch a ' meaningless tale ' is because the aware cd's are only in the United States and in Mexico available. The organisation offers information on the beveiliging of First 4 Internet to Cdlogo.nl by means of the site, however. Several phone calls to SonyBMG continued call back in spite of promises to unanswered.

    1. Re:Not only it is Lame, it contains.... by Tim+Browse · · Score: 1
      In Dutch newslogs, it is mentioned now that the rootkit is using parts of the (LGPL) LAME-encoder. So, should their rootkit be open-source then?

      Well, no. The LGPL allows you to use the code without having to release your own code. That's the main difference between LGPL and GPL.

      However, as the article you quoted mentions (I think! :-) you have to tell people you're using LGPL'd software somewhere, such as a copyright message in the software or text in the manual, etc. Interestingly, if Sony haven't done this, then the LGPL license is presumably revoked, so maybe the EFF will be knocking on Sony's door soon to ask them about, amusingly enough, copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property.

    2. Re:Not only it is Lame, it contains.... by Intron · · Score: 4, Informative

      Can I use LAME in my commercial program?

      *** IMPORTANT NOTE ***
      The decoding functions provided in LAME use the mpglib decoding engine which is under the GPL. They may not be used by any program not released under the GPL unless you obtain such permission from the MPG123 project (www.mpg123.de).

      --
      Intron: the portion of DNA which expresses nothing useful.
    3. Re:Not only it is Lame, it contains.... by 91degrees · · Score: 1

      Don't you have to provide the source (or an offer to provide) for the library as well? Actually, I'm not totally sure the LGPL even allows static linking to a closed source binary.

      It's unlikely that the GPL would be revoked for Sony's use. The EFF prefer to encourage people to abide by the rules before barring people from using it. And since this could easily be considered accidental infringement, a court is most likely to give Sony the benefit of the doubt if they make an effort to abide by the rules.

    4. Re:Not only it is Lame, it contains.... by zerocool^ · · Score: 2, Informative


      *sigh*

      As has been pointed out before, the static strings that are compiled into the program are just parts of the program that are LOOKING FOR LAME. It doesn't have any part of lame in it, it's making sure that you don't use lame to encode this CD. It's part of the so-called "protection". It's looking for a whole list of files and applications that it knows about in order to prevent them from being used to extract the audio from this CD.

      No LGPL violation. Move along.

      --
      sig?
    5. Re:Not only it is Lame, it contains.... by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1
      You may not use LGPL'd code if you deny the end user any rights to that code. The end user must retain the rights to modify the LGPL'd portion of the code. The usual way of doing this is by dynamic linking - the user may modify the LGPL'd library, compile a new copy and the have that loaded at runtime instead of the original. Another option given by the license is to provide the object files along with a statically-linked version of the code. This allows the end user to make their own statically-linked copy of your program.

      The LGPL places almost exactly the same constraints on the LGPL'd code as the GPL does - the only difference is that it is not viral.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    6. Re:Not only it is Lame, it contains.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The LGPL allows both static and dynamic linking. But if they're statically linked, as you said, Sony would have to distribute the source code (of the libraries). Putting aside the issue of copyright infringement, their use of Lame could still wind up hurting them. Take a look at section 6 of the LGPL:

      "As an exception to the Sections above, you may also combine or link a "work that uses the Library" with the Library to produce a work containing portions of the Library, and distribute that work under terms of your choice, provided that the terms permit modification of the work for the customer's own use and reverse engineering for debugging such modifications."

      IANAL, but the above seems pretty self-explanatory--if they did statically link with Lame, they may have unknowingly signed away some of their DMCA "rights". At least, this would appear to put the folks who reverse-engineered the damned thing in the clear

    7. Re:Not only it is Lame, it contains.... by QuantumFTL · · Score: 1

      The decoding functions provided in LAME use the mpglib decoding engine which is under the GPL. They may not be used by any program not released under the GPL unless you obtain such permission from the MPG123 project (www.mpg123.de).

      This, my friends, is why I can't stand libraries for "standards" or "formats" that are licensed under the GPL. The LGPL seems to be the appropriate thing here - if someone improves your code, there's nothing wrong with expecting those improvements to be released. But why, oh why should I have to release some giant piece of software's source code, just because I used an open-source codec? Chances are much, if not all of the software has little or nothing to do with the codec. I'm all for giving back to the community - I would love to see more technological innovation flowing back into the public realm via LGPL - we live in an age where we desperately need broad support from industry for open standards, and FOSS is an excellent way to go about this - if we use non-crippling licenses.

      That being said, I hope Sony, and our computer-crippling corporate overlords, whom I, for one, do not welcome, learn a valuable lesson here.

  46. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    Where is the EULA listed on the CD; or where is it referenced?

    If it isn't actually listed on the CD, but merely referenced via a small URL on the package, has the person actually agreed to it?

    Would they get away with this in the US? Even though your consumer laws are generally weaker than the EU's (*), I'm still not convinced that there is enough there for the person to "agree" to.

    (*) A la "90 day warranties" on computers or consoles; the standard EU warranty is 1 year. AFAIK there isn't a "statutory" warranty period, but if it came to court, it would almost certainly be ruled that a computer should last that long. Actually, if it came to court, they'd probably expect it to last *longer* than a year, although the consumer might not be entitled to the full value of the computer. OTOH, the US has some "fair use" laws whereas the UK doesn't really, and item (9) would apply by default; which is probably why I thought "what's new?" when I first saw it.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  47. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by KitesWorld · · Score: 1

    I was kinda reffering not so much to the rootkit, but to the plans for Blu-Ray. As you're probably aware, they're planning to make the BR players 'self-destruct' if you do something with them that Sony doesn't like - Legal, perhaps, if they cover it in enough shrinkrap, but not something that people will tolerate.

    On the other token, the rootkit may actually be legal here in the UK thanks to that freaking EULA.
    Basically, it can be argued that the user gave permission when they clicked through the EULA - and even though that EULA is invalid here, the whole 'giving permission' thing probably isn't. Serious pain in the arse.

    They'll still be liable for the damages, tho. There's already a confirmed virus in the wild that tries to exploit the RK. Backdoor.Win32.Breplibot.b

    Oh, and then we've got the whole thing with the RK including LAME components.

  48. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Jarnis · · Score: 5, Informative

    If you want to see how the 'logic' of Sony works, see this patent;

    http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=/netahtml/search-adv.htm&r=1&p=1 &f=G&l=50&d=ptxt&S1=(Kutaragi.INZZ.+AND+Sony.ASNM. )&OS=in/Kutaragi+AND+an/Sony&RS=(IN/Kutaragi+AND+A N/Sony

    For short version, see this story;

    http://www.joystiq.com/entry/1234000420067137/

    (Sony is patenting a method for games console discs to be tied to the console unit they're first ran on. No second hand game sales or loaning of games...)

  49. Copyright infringement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    According to this article (Dutch) on the CD Get Right With The Man of Van Zant there are strings from the library version.c of Lame. The following strings are found: "http://www.mp3dev.org/", "0.90", "LAME3.95", "3.95", "3.95 ".

    Also in the program go.exe their is an array called "largetbl", which is part of tables.c of libmp3lame. Can anyone confirm these findings?

    LAME is licenced under the LGPL. Could this mean more trouble for Sony because of a license violation?

    1. Re:Copyright infringement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A translation of the article can be found here.

    2. Re:Copyright infringement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      i cant see why that would constitute a LGPL violation simply because they did not copy anything other than an identification string. it is a version number or a tiny bit of info (also not for the purpose of executing it, but for identification (and not a derivitive work)

      i hate the rootkit, but the LGPL shouldnt have that much power over this situation.

    3. Re:Copyright infringement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't remember the LGPL word-for-word, but I thought the LGPL allowed linking closed-source programs against the library. (That's the point of making it LGPL, not GPL). At most, Sony would have to give out a copy of the LAME source code, with any changes made to the LAME portion only. Is this wrong?

    4. Re:Copyright infringement? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The LGPL requires you to allow your end-users to modify the LGPL'd library and relink your program against the modified version. In practice this means linking dynamically to the library in addition to making the library's source code available.

      It's possible, though, that the XCP malware doesn't actually steal code from LAME, but searches for those strings in running executable images so it can interfere with any attempt to encode MP3s. IMHO, this is the unsung evil of this DRM malware--it's none of Sony's business what software I run on my computer. I stopped buying games for a similar reason--several of them will refuse to run if you have a debugger or CD emulation software installed.

    5. Re:Copyright infringement? by MadRocketScientist · · Score: 1

      I read the article (or the translation, at least), and don't see how they came to the conclusion that there is LAME code in Sony's DRM software.
      The /. story about hiding rippers from the rootkit mentioned the kit's ability to scan running processes and windows and compare them to a list. It is likely that the LAME refrences are merely part of that list, as you'd expect the kit would be looking for well-known ripping/encoding programs.

      As for the array, coincidences do happen, and I suspect a table named "largetbl" might be a common choice for a programmer making a large table...

    6. Re:Copyright infringement? by poot_rootbeer · · Score: 1

      Odds of the string "http://www.mp3dev.org/" randomly appearing in a binary? about 1 in 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000 (assuming uniform distribution)

    7. Re:Copyright infringement? by pjrc · · Score: 1

      It is very unlikely that they included the text "LAME3.95" intentionally. The much more likely explaination is that they used the LAME code, which happens to include this string, and didn't realize that is was still embedded in their final binary product. It is easy to detect strings like "LAME3.95" (use the unix "strings" program). Further analysis, which is much more difficult, can show whether the binary code appears to be similar in structure to LAME. But because "LAME3.95" appears, it's a pretty good bet that such analysis is very likely to confirm that they used the LGPL licensed Lame code. There just isn't much other plausible explaination for that string to appear in the binary code. If they did in fact use Lame, not only would they be in violation of the copyright, but it's sure make they hypocrits, by infringing upon someone else's copyrighted work. As well, the use of the mp3 encoding algorithm is covered by patents in the US. It's pretty unlikely they obtained the required license.

      --
      PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
  50. Big companies should join in the lawsuits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would imagine this DRM will cost companies thousands of dollars.

    I support a user base of about 700. Say this gets installed on 150 PCs, it will take A LOT of man hours to indentify and then uninstall this DRM, not to mention work hours lost on the part of the end-user.

    1. Re:Big companies should join in the lawsuits by cqnn · · Score: 1

      You let all those users run as admin?

        IIRC, if they are running as Limited User, when they run this CD, it will
      bail out, because it cannot run at the level needed to install its filters.

  51. Sony lost a sale by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    I'm buying 42" or 50" flat screen in a couple of months. It won't be a Sony. The reasons are:

    - Enough of this legal bullshit, what I buy is mine and I do whatever I want with it. Sony pisses me off.
    - Sony quality, or the lack of, sucks.

    I, for one, welcome our Chinese non-DRM bulk stuff overlords. With this DRM sillyness they're not only destroying the slim chance of me buying CD's, but all their hardware sales as well. Continue like this and you won't be missed.

  52. Now it's safer to Pirate? by concord · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I find it interesting that Sony has violating consumer's rights in order to protect their own rights. Now for the first time it is actually safer to download and listen to pirated music then it is to purchase and use compact disks and dvds. Piracy will become a matter of self-preservation.

    Also, the new shadowy status of $sys$ prepended files opens the door for all kinds of malware - these programs will use this "hole" to create hidden processes on people's home and workplace computer systems - a serious security threat to all the nations of the world. In essence Sony has facilitated a whole new class of malware, virus and worm propagation by assisting them in denying detection.

    Being sued should be the least of Sony's worries.

    --
    MFG: "The system supports both the LAMP (Linux, Apache, MySQL, PHP) and WIMP (Windows, IIS, MySQL, PHP) platforms."
    1. Re:Now it's safer to Pirate? by estebanf · · Score: 1
      I find it interesting that Sony has violating consumer's rights in order to protect their own rights. Now for the first time it is actually safer to download and listen to pirated music then it is to purchase and use compact disks and dvds. Piracy will become a matter of self-preservation.


      Sony really went to far with their rootkit. They should punished for their acts (with big buck$, that's only what they matter). But this is not an excuse for more piracy. Don't forget that the abuse of music/video/software swapping is the root cause of the corporate behavior.

      If anybody does not support the music industry, only have to stop buying cds. But downloading (aka stealing) is not an option.

      --
      DON'T STEAL MUSIC!
    2. Re:Now it's safer to Pirate? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget that the abuse of music/video/software swapping is the root cause of the corporate behavior.

      No, greed and resistance to change are the root causes of corporate behavior.

    3. Re:Now it's safer to Pirate? by estebanf · · Score: 1
      No, greed and resistance to change are the root causes of corporate behavior.

      no.. it's the stealing behavior. If you or anybody don't like the way music industry acts, you are free to stop buying even listening to music. In fact you can start your own industry just the way you want it to be.

      If I don't like somebody is my choice to stop hanging around with him.. and maybe he will think about it and change that thing that annoyed me. But it's not an option to beat him as scream "Change!, CHANGE!... CHANGE NOW!!!!....because i say so!"

      --
      DON'T STEAL MUSIC!
    4. Re:Now it's safer to Pirate? by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Dont wait to much:

      The First trojan is here.

      Kudos for Sony... they blew it up HAAAARD. This time.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
    5. Re:Now it's safer to Pirate? by xtracto · · Score: 1

      Btw, here is the BitDefender site information about the virus:

      The trojan apparently installs an IRC backdoor on the affected system and may have other functions.

      And the technical analysis is here

      It is virtually impossible for a normal user to detect presence of any files hidden by Sony DRM Software. blah blah.

      --
      Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
  53. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    Is the user actually presented with an EULA to agree to first? (Perhaps I didn't read the articles as closely as I should have).

    Are these CDs actually available in the UK?

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  54. Get Immunity! by ajs318 · · Score: 2, Informative

    The sad thing is that this "DRM" doesn't actually accomplish anything except false description, trespass to chattels bordering on criminal damage, misuse of a computer and aiding and abetting criminal damage and misuse of a computer. And it only manages to rack up that charge sheet under Windows!

    Quick way to get around it: boot up a copy of Slax using the cheatcode slax copy2ram, swap the CD, cd into your hard disk {it'll be under /mnt somewhere} and you can then use # cdparanoia -B to rip off the audio tracks with no problem. You can even go
    # for i in *wav; do lame -h $i; done
    or
    # for i in *wav; do lame -h $i && rm $i; done
    if you don't care about keeping the wav files.

    --
    Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
  55. HP/Compaq notebooks are a much better value. by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 1

    I recently went shopping for a new notebook to use for the "standard" office laptop for about 20 people. HP/Compaq seemed to have the best features for the price. I've also tried to avoid Sony since having several run-ins with "difficult" Vaio computers.

    1. Re:HP/Compaq notebooks are a much better value. by BushCheney08 · · Score: 1

      Actually, taking my past experience with a laptop into account (iBook with the logic board problem), as well as reading everyone else's anecdotes, I've been thinking it might be best just to get a cheapish low-mid range laptop. Yeah it'll be a bit heavier. Yeah, the graphics won't be as nice. But at the same time, when it goes south, it won't be nearly as much of a loss. My cow-orker picked up a decently spec'd year old compaq laptop from craigslist for 500 bucks a few months ago. It probably should've been at least 700 used, but the OS was totally mangled (it didn't help that there were signs that CompUSA had mangled it even further). The original owner just wanted it gone. A wipe and reinstall later (had to use the office's copy of XP since the machine didn't come with any media), and a little futzing with all of the HP-Compaq drivers/value-added software and it was as good as new.

      --
      Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    2. Re:HP/Compaq notebooks are a much better value. by archen · · Score: 1

      What problem did you have with the logic board. The board was faulty so apple replaces it. I got mine replaced 2 years after the computer was out of warranty. They sent me a shipping box and even the freaking tape to close the box. Was back in a week and haven't had any problems since!

      I've had good luck with IBM at work. On ebay you can find a lot of corperate IBM laptop dumps at decent prices. I've had nothing but problems with Dell. Out of the 5 my company purchased, only ONE still works, and it will immidiatly shut off (or not turn on) if the battery is plugged in.

    3. Re:HP/Compaq notebooks are a much better value. by BushCheney08 · · Score: 1

      Mine was one of the late 2001 dual-USB ones. It started having problems after a few months. It ended up going back to Apple for repairs three times in the first year. IIRC, it wasn't until I'd had it for over 1-1/2 years before they even acknowledged there were logic board issues, even though there was more than enough evidence indicating there was. About a year or so after that they finally extended the serial number range to include mine. Taking 2-1/2 years to acknowledge a particular model has a problem, and only doing so under the threat of a class action lawsuit, is not the way to keep customers happy. (I haven't even gone into the nice big scratch they put on my screen after one repair, or that another time they didn't even fully reassemble the machine.)

      --
      Be a real patriot: Question authority. Think for yourself. Formulate your own conclusions.
    4. Re:HP/Compaq notebooks are a much better value. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You want features for price? Dude, you're getting a Dell. I just got an Inspiron 9300, 2.0 Ghz Pentium M, 1GB of RAM, DVD writer, 80GB hard drive, Tv tuner + remote, internal Bluetooth/wireless, 17" Truelife glossy WIDEscreen with 1920x1200 resolution (ooooo!), all for under 2K. I challenge you to compete with that with any other laptop for that price. Oh yes, it also has an nVidia go 6800, forgot to mention that.

    5. Re:HP/Compaq notebooks are a much better value. by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Not quite...

      foo:~$ lspci
      0000:00:00.0 Host bridge: Intel Corp. Mobile Memory Controller Hub (rev 03)
      0000:00:01.0 PCI bridge: Intel Corp. Mobile Memory Controller Hub PCI Express Po rt (rev 03) ...
      0:01:00.0 VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc: Unknown device 546 0 ..

      Although it still works pretty darn good with Ubuntu.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    6. Re:HP/Compaq notebooks are a much better value. by Quattro+Vezina · · Score: 1

      Eww...HP/Compaq sucks. Get a Toshiba, IBM, or Apple notebook instead. Trust me--you'll be much happier.

      --
      I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
    7. Re:HP/Compaq notebooks are a much better value. by lusid1 · · Score: 1

      Do not trust HP. These are the folks that shipped all of the X1000 series laptops and their relatives with fake Radeon 9200 cards. The cards were in fact Radeon 9000 chips that HP overclocked. They went so far as to modify the driver to misreport the chipset to the device manager.

      Now, after a couple years in the field, most of these laptops have died from video card failures. Go figure.

      This is just one example.
      If you buy HP, expect to be cheated.

  56. Yeah, but... by KitesWorld · · Score: 1

    Most people don't know what the law says. When they complain to Sony, they just get given the 'It's in the EULA - You agreed to it' response, and short of going to a lawyer, most people aren't going to realise that.

    It's basically a way of conning the uninformed out of their legal rights, and that's the issue at hand, methinks.

    1. Re:Yeah, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      IANAL

      As I recall my Business Law textbook stating "the court frowns on disclaimers of responsibility". You see such disclaimers all over the place, signs on stores and parking lots, purchase agreements, and eulas. However there is established criteria that a company or private owner must apply due diligence to make sure their actions/product do not injure others and is generally determined in court by the "reasonable man" test. "Injure" includes not only physical injuries to persons but financial, reputation etc "injuries".

    2. Re:Yeah, but... by Thud457 · · Score: 1
      "It's basically a way of conning the uninformed out of their legal rights,"

      Isn't that illegal? (Hell, it sounds like grounds for disbarment to me, but then. I'm not ethically challenged enough to have attended law-talking-guy school.)

      --

      the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

    3. Re:Yeah, but... by 6*7 · · Score: 1

      I don't think it's illegal since when it comes to (the breaking of) laws ignorance is no excuse.

      In the GPs example there surely were no lwayers present to give advise, those "we are not responsible for your goods" signs are put up by the busines owner.

  57. Jail Time? by ObsessiveMathsFreak · · Score: 1

    Class action suit? Why not just have Sony face criminal charges? The company broke the law, so why not send an executive or two to jail for a few weeks. At least a suspended sentence?

    --
    May the Maths Be with you!
    1. Re:Jail Time? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because its NOT the state that is sueing Sony (article misrepresented that somewhat) Its a class action lawsuit by a law firm that is taking advantage of the situation in civil court.

  58. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by KitesWorld · · Score: 1

    There's mixed reports on wether or not these CD's are in the european market or not, so I can't give a straight answer on the second question.

    On the first - there's an EULA tied to a custom music player included on the CD which Sony are trying to use as a catch-all.
    Mark has the full EULA copied onto Sysinternals. Linky

  59. Suspicious Activity by digitaldc · · Score: 2, Funny

    How ironic that one of the copy-protected CDs is titled 'THE BAD PLUS' by Suspicious Activity.
    And they really mean it!
    Be rest assured Sony, that I will NEVER buy one of your invasive CDs.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
    1. Re:Suspicious Activity by cailyoung · · Score: 1

      Other way round. The Bad Plus is a jazz group.

  60. Sony is routinely adversarial, in my opinion. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    I'm very happy to learn that there is a lawsuit against Sony's abusive behavior.

    Many people who made comments on the Sysinternals.com web site were easily willing to assume that Sony managers didn't know that their copy protection mechanism was so aggressive.

    I don't agree with that. I think adversarial behavior has become a part of the Sony corporate culture. For example, it seems to me that Sony laptops, at least those Sony made before I stopped buying them, are very unreliable. For example, there seems to be some mechanism by which a temperature sensor reports a higher temperature at the CPU than actually exists, and the laptop stops operating after it is no longer in warranty.

    It seems to me that this lawsuit against Sony became necessary because of a general understanding inside Sony that the company will act in a sneaky way toward its customers. Many, many managers lack confidence that they can make money if they are honest.

    Also, in my experience, the quality of Sony products has been allowed to drop, and it is risky to buy anything from Sony now. I've seen problems with several classes of Sony products.

    Many companies are only concerned about the next quarter's profits. The managers at those companies assume that, if the company they manage does poorly, they can easily get another job. The present situation punishes the employees and customers; the managers rarely lose and often are rewarded for aggressive behavior.

  61. Pod casts by klubar · · Score: 1

    However, the pod casts will cost $.99 and self destruct after 1 listening. Attempts to circumvent DRM will cause you to go deaf due to an autorun feature inserted in your brain via the headphones.

  62. That was a missed opportunity by roystgnr · · Score: 1

    Sony bastard: "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"

    Interviewer: "Do you know what a UFIA is?"

    1. Re:That was a missed opportunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yah dood! you shudda put yer finger in his butthole... LOL!

  63. Who else? by zogger · · Score: 1

    Sony was doing this for a long time, until one guy got suspicious. Millions of other people didn't see it. How about all the other manufacturers of audio CDs? Has there been a general inspection of them? Maybe there are more rootkits out there that just haven't been found yet. How about in video DVDs, or games? Maybe this sort of install a trojan along with the "copy protection" is more common than not, who knows...

  64. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by iainl · · Score: 1

    Click-through EULAs are tough enough to enforce at the best of times; enforcing them on someone who won't have even seen it if they don't have a box which has been rooted sounds pretty impossible.

    --
    "I Know You Are But What Am I?"
  65. slightly off topic but not really. by Brothernone · · Score: 1

    yeah, I get lots of techno and EDM from Allofmp3.com cheapest legal downloads i've seen so far.. in MP3 format too. who needs to buy CD's.. i didn't worry about all this sony stuff, cause the only cd's i buy are imported from cheap independant lables in the UK.. cause american techo is teh suck!

    --
    He whom you called four-eyes yesterday, you call Sir tomorrow.
    1. Re:slightly off topic but not really. by -brazil- · · Score: 1

      yeah, I get lots of techno and EDM from Allofmp3.com cheapest legal downloads i've seen so far.. in MP3 format too.

      Um... that's because they're NOT legal. IIRC they have some blanket agreement for the Russian market that doesn't specifically exclude online distribution. Online distribution to the whole world is most certainly not covered under that.

      --

      The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer.
      --Henry Kissinger

    2. Re:slightly off topic but not really. by Jaseoldboss · · Score: 1

      Then we need a website that will collect donations from people and forward them directly onto the artist.

      I don't want to rip off the people whose music I enjoy but I certainly aren't going to pay money to record companies who spend most of it licensing DRM crap like this and only paying 10% to the people who actually do the work.

      It shouldn't be illegal provided that it's operated as a 'tip jar' should it?

      I'd do it myself if I had the time.

    3. Re:slightly off topic but not really. by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Oh puleeze... just because pay through the nose for music doesn't mean someone doing it cheaper is illegal.

      AllofMp3 is definately legal. They've passed investigations etc. There's a large writeup on their site explaining all this... this is *old* news.

    4. Re:slightly off topic but not really. by pmjordan · · Score: 1

      It shouldn't be illegal provided that it's operated as a 'tip jar' should it?

      You're right, it shouldn't, morally anyway, but you forget that it's usually the labels that hold the rights to the music, not the artists. The artists aren't able to publish free samples on their website, even if they want to, without permission from their label.

      ~phil

    5. Re:slightly off topic but not really. by dave1212 · · Score: 1

      no, any artist that has signed to a major label deserves to get screwed. They know how major labels will screw bands, but in their GREED they still choose to sign a contract with them.

      Allofmp3 paid the labels what the labels asked for, plain and simple.

      if the greedy artist is on a major, just go to allofmp3 and get their tracks. You can get 320 bkps AAC if you want (what I usually get) and an album will usually end up costing under two bucks.

      Fuck the greedy majors, and fuck the greedy bands on the majors.

    6. Re:slightly off topic but not really. by interiot · · Score: 1

      Read the sordid tale at Wikipedia. It looks to be possibly legal currently. But it definitely seems to be in a legal gray area that could well be clarified as "illegal" soon.

    7. Re:slightly off topic but not really. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoops. Looks like you forgot to copy the Wikipedia URL before pasting it there!!

  66. The end of democracy by tomcres · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The California suit is really nothing when you look at the big picture. The reality is that we have surrendered our freedom, in fact, surrendered our supposedly democratic government, to rich people with capital interests in restricting our liberty. A lot of this has to do with the invention of incorporation, the idea that a company can be viewed as a "person" under the law. But just take a look at who makes up our government and what kind of laws they enact. You almost have to be a millionaire political party contributor or fundraiser to be nominated for office, and once in office, the politicians are not representing the will of the people, but the will of the lobbyist and big money contributors. If laws like DMCA or any other copyright or patent legislation were put to public referendum, they'd be defeated _easily_. However, because RIAA and MPAA and their associates put billions of dollars into the Republicans' and Democrats' pockets, they enact legislation that absolutely no one outside of those industries wants!

  67. MP3 downloading by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Does anyone think this might lead to more MP3 downloading illegally? are they just trying to make consumers wary of the CD? After this scam by Sony, I'm not buying CDs for a while.
    Or will they too soon try to DRM mp3s?

  68. LGPL violation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    The rootkit installed by Sony in order to protect their copyright, turns out to contain parts of LAME, a LGPLed mp3 encoder, according to an article by the Dutch online magazine WebWereld. A translation can be found here.

    It is unclear what LAME is used for in the kit, but according to it's about page, Lame can also be used for decoding. In that sense, this usenet post by a first4internet employee shows that the company producing the rootkit at least has an MP3 player, which of course might be part of the Sony rootkit:

    "I am currently writing an MP3 player with lots of bells and whistles including a wave editor, fades, reverbs etc. What I now need is to be able to protect the files it creates. I have already written the routine to convert the MP3 into a WMA file. Does someone have some simple C++ code which can write Microsofts DRM v1 properties that the user whishes to set (i.e. 3plays 4 copies etc) over the unprotected file to make it protected. There may be some cash on offer here if its easy to use! All I need is a procedure that performs this."

    And if you're thinking you're safe for these kind of kits because you're on a mac, well, it might not be for long. Of course this is pure speculation, but at least one F4I employee is asking questions about mac programming issues...

  69. getting around Intel/AMD DRM by tomcres · · Score: 1
    what if Intel and AMD both DRM there chips? Surely, I can't boycott computers in general can I?

    That's an easy one.. I can already see the hobbyist market adopting PowerPC if that ever happens. We'll see the motherboard mfrs. joining Pegasos in making generic PPC mobos. Either that, or the industry in Taiwan, or possibly even mainland China, will engineer away to defeat the protections built into the chips and sell DRM-free mobos. Similar to what they've done with overclocking-friendly mobos.

    I mean, seriously, if you're that anti-DRM, you're probably not going to be running Windows. You're probably going to want to run Linux or *BSD anyway, either of which is readily available on PPC arch.

    1. Re:getting around Intel/AMD DRM by snotclot · · Score: 1

      well, PowerPC would be IBM, and I'm pretty sure IBM would jump on the DRM wagon too, so there goes that solution. As for bypassing DRM in the motherboard: are you sure its that easy? I'm thinking the DRM will be engineered into the chip itself, as part of the whole CPU architecture....!!! Maybe I should take that microprocessor design class after all...

  70. Trojan found using this in the Wild by alnya · · Score: 1

    The register has the story (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/10/sony_drm_ trojan/) but it was only a matter of time before this would be used for (more) nefarious purposes.

    I wonder if this will force Sony's hand a little?

  71. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Randall311 · · Score: 1

    Rootkits are unacceptable forms of DRM. Any program that modifies a users system without their knowledge is considered a virus. This form of DRM will not be tolorated, and shouldn't be. I have a feeling Sony will have to pay for this one (which stinks because I have $$$ invested in them because I thought PS3 and Blu-ray would really help their bottom line.) P.S. Don't worry about Blu-ray's copy protection. It looks impossible to overcome now, but it will be hax0red sooner or later. The tough copy protection on Blu-ray is what makes it so appealing to the big moive companies anyway, kind of a catch-22.

  72. Thank You SONY! by MikeWin10 · · Score: 1

    I'd like to thank Sony for again, reminding me why I do not buy their products. Its amazing they got this far with this rootkit, I for one hope they get fined heavily.

  73. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by chrish · · Score: 1

    Do all your ripping on a Mac or Linux/BSD/non-XP system, problem solved. Or remember to turn off auto-play on your XP box.

    I've been using my iBook for ripping, then FTP the goodies over to my XP box where my music library lives.

    --
    - chrish
  74. Howto: Get an apology from Sony.. by wraith0x29a · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Take the word 'Sony', slice the 'n' vertically down the middle and flip the right-hand half on it's vertical axis - you'll end up with the word 'Sorry'.

    After their response to my e-mail complaint when this issue first arose it's the only apology anyone can expect from them. Oh well, I use Linux anyway and all the CDs on the blacklist are either utter pish or by people I've never heard of but, still, the whole thing stinks like 3-week old Sushi.

    --
    ~ Better a freak than a sheep. ~
  75. Sony Execs deserve what Mitnik got. by olddoc · · Score: 1

    Enough said. If Kevin got jail time so should the people at Sony and any companies that developed this rootkit software.

    --
    Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.
  76. Apple Sony by Kredal · · Score: 1

    A quick glance down the list and a random sampling showed most of the Rootkit CDs are available on iTunes. I'd MUCH rather have Apple's DRM than Sony's... and the CD's are a lot cheaper when you buy them from iTunes, too... and won't open your computer to hackers.

    --
    Whoever stated that signature sizes should be limited to one hundred and twenty characters can just go ahead and kiss my
  77. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by oneandoneis2 · · Score: 1

    Hey, our laws in these situations aren't as bad as you seem to think!

    For starters, in the UK, you cannot sign away your rights. That means that a clause that specifies something like #6 in the original post, something like "By using this product, you agree that you cannot hold Sony liable for more than $5", is completely worthless over here.

    In fact, even if you write a letter in your own blood, signed & witnessed by God and all his angels, that says "I give up all my rights to ever sue or even say anything nasty about Sony", you would still be within your full legal rights to immediately afterwards say "The thoughtless ******s screwed up my PC with crappy malware, I'll sue them down to scorched Earth!" - nothing you can do, say, or write ever takes away your rights to do something.

    Just so you know. It's not all bad over here!

    --
    So.. it has come to this
  78. this sounds like a job for microsoft security by OglinTatas · · Score: 1
    I've read the link you posted, and I'm appalled. Actually, I've been pissed at sony for a while now, more so since I've heard about the first 4 rootkit, but I'm still appalled.

    I've been a microsoft basher since OS/2 2.3, but I think MS can go a long way toward promoting good will among end users if they issue a security patch that uninstalls this rootkit, and prevents it from installing in the future.

    They won't though, because I think they care more about revenue streams based on relationships with media providers than the licensing fees from end users, who are already basically locked into the microsoft way. Besides, anti-virus companies and most likely microsoft itself are concerned with violating any potential EULA, no matter how deceptive or even whether it was presented. From sarc
    "WARNING: Removing this security risk...may violate the manufacturer's end-user license agreement."
    I would imagine microsoft is very sensitive about violating EULAs, since they have pretty restrictive EULAs themselves.
    --
    More music, fewer hits
    1. Re:this sounds like a job for microsoft security by Grave · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I disagree. I think Microsoft would love nothing more than to issue a patch removing something from Sony. The amount of PR and publicity this would create two weeks before launching a product that directly competes with Sony's only real moneymaker would be worth far more than costs of a possible lawsuit that Sony might attempt to launch against them (which would get thrown out anyway).

    2. Re:this sounds like a job for microsoft security by shotfeel · · Score: 1

      I've been a microsoft basher since OS/2 2.3, but I think MS can go a long way toward promoting good will among end users if they issue a security patch that uninstalls this rootkit, and prevents it from installing in the future.

      They won't though,

      But wouldn't that run afoul of the DMCA section regarding circumventing a protection device? For that matter, isn't instructing people to turn off autorun doing the same? Much less detailed descriptions of how to remove the software from a "protected" computer.

      Here come the Sony lawsuits!

  79. Sony not found for comments... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    ...as they have renamed themselves to $sys$Sony...

  80. This may be a stupid question, but... by mwvdlee · · Score: 1

    Since a EULA is a license, if I do not accept it, won't the law automatically revert to copyright?
    It seems to me that copyright law gives me more freedom than a typical EULA.

    --
    Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
  81. there ought to be a law... by netcrusher88 · · Score: 1
    against installing unwanted software on a users computer by misrepresentation of said software as something the user wants...

    Oh yeah, that's right, viruses are already illegal. Using the above definition, even if it requires end-user lack of knowledge (like viruses used to, before activex and blaster worm... ah, the good old days...) the Sony rootkit certainly seems to be a virus. IANAL, but does anyone else think we might have a chance against Sony on a federal class-action level if we try the virus tactic?

    --
    There's an old saying that says pretty much whatever you want it to.
  82. Rootkit, Autorun? by sjs132 · · Score: 1

    So, the rootkit installs when you put the CD in to play... But if you do one of either 2 things, you should be fine, right?

    (A) disable Autorun

      -OR-

    (B) Use a NON-WINDOWS Operating system...

    If I was Bill Gates, I'd be pissed and calling up Sony and threatning to send them up the bomb... Think of how many more people this will drive from windows to MACS.

      (unless you missed the slashdot story the otherday, supposedly 1mil PC -> Mac converts according to Apple)

    Personally, I have my VanZants song from Itunes, burned on CD then ripped into MP3, so no rootkit for me, but I guess that would require a denotion of (C)... But thats totally seperate rant at this point... ;)

    Sue their asses then buy another CD after the settlement gives you free vouchers for SONY/BMG CD's in 3 years!

    --
    --- Relax, that mass muderer is just trying to reduce our carbon footprint, one fetus at a time...
  83. $sys$firstPost by Sheridan · · Score: 1

    $sys$noContent
    --
    This isn't right. This isn't even wrong. -- Wolfgang Pauli

  84. Exploit claimed for Sony rootkit by andyo · · Score: 4, Informative
    The BitDefender company claims an exploit has already been found that uses the Sony DVD rootkit to gain access to one's system:

    http://www.bitdefender.com/VIRUS-1000058-en--Backd oor.IRC.Snyd.A.html

    Naturally, they are promoting their software as protection.

  85. Up next: CD costs are on the rise. by gillrock · · Score: 1

    The major record labels now are going to raise the cost of a music CD
    to match the cost of computer gaming software.

    They're justification: Well, you're not purchasing music anymore. Now
    you're purchasing a software package. We feel that it is only fair
    that consumers pay a fair market price for that software.

    --
    "...the shortest distance between two points may be straight line, but it is by no means the most interesting."
  86. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

    Sony is patenting a method for games console discs to be tied to the console unit they're first ran on. No second hand game sales or loaning of games...

    Is that legal? I mean, isn't there a right of resale? And isn't this gonna tick off a lot of resellers, like EB Games, Ebay, etc.

    Oh well, I'll have fun sending it back as defective when it doesn't work if I bring it to a friend's house.

  87. Senator from Disney by OglinTatas · · Score: 1

    Didn't senator hollings suggest damaging the computers of end users? I think he intended it to be more severe, and more obvious to the victim. On the other hand, I don't think he intended it to be done "minority report" style before any "piracy" has taken place (and irrespective of whether piracy would ever have taken place).

    I once had a sig here at slashdot: when a representative refers to his constituents as consumers rather than citizens, you know who is signing his paycheck. (That's a pet peeve of mine.)

    --
    More music, fewer hits
    1. Re:Senator from Disney by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was Orrin Hatch.

    2. Re:Senator from Disney by OglinTatas · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the correction. Neither one is from my state.

      --
      More music, fewer hits
  88. Oh, to be a lawyer by hey! · · Score: 5, Interesting

    IANAL, but I would love to be the one kicking the shit of out this EULA.

    Suppose you sign a contract with me in which for $100 I promise to fix things so your neighbors stop complaining about your dog barking at night. We agree in our contract that you will limit my liability from anything resulting from my attempts to stop Fido from barking to $50. I then drive up to your house and put a bullet through Fido's head.

    Now, does any person reasonably believe that you authorized me to shoot your dog, even if it's the most convenient way to accomplish what I said I'd do? Does any person reasonably beleive that consumers authorized Sony to completely undermine the security of their systems?

    Or how about this: I agreed to limit any damage due to my use of Sony's software, but my system crashed as a result of my placing a Deustche Grammaphone CD in the drive. That wasn't my use of Sony's software, that was Sony's use of Sony's software to check up on me. Or my system is compromised by a hacker. That wasn't my use of Sony's software, that was the hacker's use of Sony's software. And don't say I promised not to hold you responsible for negligence. This isn't negligence it's misrepresentation. This is not "YOUR USE OF ANY OF THE LICENSED MATERIALS"; nor is it "THIS EULA" (see point above).

    Sony should just own up to the fact this was incredibly stupid and irresponsible rather than bulling ahead and piling up liability for itself. Even at $5.00 a CD, it's going to hurt when the hammer drops. They should offer to replace all existing CDs with this software and provide technical support for one year to users who are affected by it.

    --
    Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    1. Re:Oh, to be a lawyer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you put a bullet through my dog's head, did it actually kill him? Or stop him barking in any way?

      Because if not I'd really want my 100 bucks back...

    2. Re:Oh, to be a lawyer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are forgetting one thing. The original EULA did not have a single word in it about installing any software aside from the media player. After Mark broke this baby out and it started ciculating they modified the EULA. Their original EULA will not protect them at all.

  89. ...AND ANOTHER THING!!!! by gillrock · · Score: 1

    If the labels would take all the cash they're dumping into
    anti-piracy crap and funnel those funds into the realm of
    "artist development"(gone the way of the dinosaur), maybe
    consumers would feel we were getting good product for their
    hard earned cash that was worthy enough to purchase.

    Gee, what a concept.

    --
    "...the shortest distance between two points may be straight line, but it is by no means the most interesting."
  90. DRM on PowerPC by tomcres · · Score: 1

    I couldn't see DRM being as big a deal to IBM wrt the PowerPC arch because it is mostly used in embedded applications. Any desktop sales they make from it are gravy (read: additional unforeseen profits). If Apple were sticking with PPC, I could see IBM considering adding DRM to PPC, but given that it would likely increase the mfg costs for their embedded clientele and they no longer have a desktop market for it other than hobbyists and niche buyers, I don't think it's in their own interests.

  91. Come on ad aware and spybot! by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

    Will this rootkit be treated as spyware? I for one do not welcome my Sony overlords. Got to love the EFF for giving you a link to a ripper though. I usually don't like pirating but I think I will see if I can download some of these songs just on GP.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  92. D-Day for DRM... by TheZorch · · Score: 1

    Its my hope that this lawsuite in California will mark the beginning of a trend that will eventually kill DRM utterly. In all my years in the IT industry I've never seen so many people cheezed off about something the way they are about DRM...especially Sony's DRM. If you make customers in the computer industry mad you'll never get them to do business with you ever again. Its sad how so many companies severely underestimate the intellegence of their customers. Its criminal.

    Perhaps this case, and othes that are soon to follow, will convince other companies currently using DRM to quickly back out of it ASAP to avoid legal troubles.

    --
    Michael "TheZorch" Haney
    thezorch@gmail.com
    http://thezorch.googlepages.com/home
  93. Terrorist will be purchasing Celine Dion CDs by JumperCable · · Score: 1

    Now all the terrorist will be purchasing Celine Dion, On ne Change Pas in order to get root kits to hide their terrorism files. G. W. Bush should be on the lookout for this. Anyone with a Sony Root kit on their system is a potential terrorist.

  94. First Trojan using Sony DRM spotted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First Trojan using Sony DRM spotted
    By John Leyden (john.leyden at theregister.co.uk)
    Published Thursday 10th November 2005 13:25 GMT

    Virus writers have begun taking advantage of Sony-BMG's use of rootkit technology in DRM software bundled with its music CDs.

    Sony-BMG's rootkit DRM technology masks files whose filenames start with "$sys$". A newly-discovered variant of of the Breplibot Trojan takes advantage of this to drop the file "$sys$drv.exe" in the Windows system directory.

    "This means, that for systems infected by the Sony rootkit, the dropped file is entirely invisible to the user. It will not be found in any process and file listing. Only rootkit scanners, such as the free utility RootkitRevealer, can unmask the culprit," warns Ivan Macalintal, a senior threat analyst at security firm Trend Micro

    The malware arrives attached in an email, which pretends to come from a reputable business magazine, asking the businessman to verify his/her "picture" to be used for the December issue. If the malicious payload contained in this email is executed then the Trojan installs an IRC backdoor on affected Windows systems.

    Romanian anti-virus firm BitDefender confirms that the malware is in the wild but a full technical analysis of the Trojan is yet to be completed. The response of anti-virus firms, some of which have only promised to flag up rather than block system changes made by Sony-BMG's rootkit, remains unclear. ®

  95. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Gulthek · · Score: 1

    They are presented with a EULA, but the EULA is incorrect. This is second-hand so I don't have the source but It states that the software installed will be easily removable (it isn't) and is only to play the music (and also to report to Sony what music you listen to).

  96. Crappy CDs by Belgand · · Score: 1

    Frankly I couldn't find any CDs on their list that I would have purchased (or that I wouldn't have mocked friends for buying). As long as major labels keep releasing plenty of crap it looks like I'm safe.

    Still, this is a great step and to be applauded. For once consumers (or a lawyer who sees an easy way to make a buck) are actually doing something about abusive companies rather than just taking it, bitching, and then going back for more.

  97. Of course nobody agrees to EULAs.. by Snaller · · Score: 1

    ... or reads them.

    --
    If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
  98. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by nocaster · · Score: 0

    Perhaps Sony created this heavy handed EULA knowing they would get sued with the hope that some of these points will be ruled as "fair" by a judge. I'm sure that they would like to "win" even just a couple of those.

  99. Cohesive? by MochaMan · · Score: 1

    When I start to see stuff like Shakespeare's Greatest Hits coming out, you'll have a valid analogy. Until then, afraid not. While I agree that you'll see some cohesive albums (eg. Dark Side of The Moon... or almost anything by Roger Waters, Sgt. Pepper's Lonely Hearts Club Band, etc.) most are not.

  100. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by EggyToast · · Score: 1
    I seem to recall hearing that NO EULAs have stood up in court. They don't usually make it into court, since it's rare where someone will do something illegal that breaks one -- in many cases, they're simply to excuse the company from the user doing something questionable with the product.

    So they don't make it into court that often, from my understanding. But they don't exactly have very strong precedent if, indeed, the more limiting ones have never stood up in court.

    As many software companies will tell you, they're usually more of a guideline, and people don't read them. Companies will even sometimes put jokes or goofy things in there, because they know it won't be an issue.

  101. download sony kit by F�an�ro · · Score: 1

    This whole publicity mess has made me curious.
    is there a way to download the sony rootkit, so I can test it out and see wheter it is really that bad?

  102. Sony, the bad guy... by Brothernone · · Score: 1

    Well, it seems to me that sony has a deathwish.. i don't know how they expected to get away with this kind of malicious spyware. How can they honestly think people won't find out. Do they really think they are just that much smarter than the consumer market that they can "hide" things like this DRM rootkit? I really hope CA sticks it to sony and breaks it off in their metaphorical booty without lube. Theese kind of consumer privacy invasion should be dealt with severly. NO ONE has the right to damage personal equipment because their loosing sales. The reason their loosing sales is from pulling off stupid stunts that only they know thier reasons for. I will NEVER buy a sony product again, unless their CEO of the whole company comes to my front door, and apologises for the kinda crap he let go on in his company. If Sony comes out on top of this entire ordeal i'll be so disgusted i'll probably destroy any existing sony products i own. (and i havn't bought sony for a good 3 years.)

    --
    He whom you called four-eyes yesterday, you call Sir tomorrow.
    1. Re:Sony, the bad guy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I will NEVER buy a sony product again, unless their CEO of the whole company comes to my front door, and apologises for the kinda crap he let go on in his company.

      Or until the PS3 comes out-- whichever comes first, right?

  103. Respect by PacketScan · · Score: 1

    Wow i'm shocked.
    I have Been buying sony hardware for my home theather and car steros for ever. Looks like that is about to change. I can't knowingly dump money into a company that is going to do something like this to their customer or thier customers computers. I've seen the unsinstall mechanisim that to is a joke.. No only do they put this crap on your computer they require you to devulge personal information in order to do so. --I don't care about spelling

  104. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    The fact that you can mitigate the problem doesn't make Sony any less wrong!

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  105. My letter to Sony: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You can submit your own here.

    "Thomas Hesse, President of Sony BMG's global digital business division, showed up on NPR to try and sweep the entire thing under the rug.

    'Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it,' he asked? 'The software is designed to protect our CDs from unauthorized copying, ripping.'"

    I don't care WHAT it was designed to do - you DO NOT install rootkits on computers that do not belong to your company.

    To make this matter more distasteful, the hoops a consumer has to jump through to even GET software to remove your company's rootkit are ridiculous.

    And the final straw is: your "removal tool" that removes XCP2 Aurora [xcp-aurora.com], simultaneously installs another DRM (MediaJam).

    This is below contempt and has caused me to purchase not only music, but computer hardware, flat panels and electronics from other companies that are NOT Sony.

    I see the class action law suits have wheels turning already; serves your company right for this disrespect for the consumer that lines your pockets with cash.

  106. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by mrchaotica · · Score: 2, Funny

    I'm really torn on this, because I want to forbid my girlfriend from buying any more Sony products (I personally have been boycotting them for years already -- their hard-on for proprietary formats (e.g. Memory Stick) was enough for me), but I know her family really likes gaming, and buys every console that comes out.

    I hate to do it, but I may have to issue the ultimatum "Do not buy a Playstation 3, because I will be forced to break up with you if you do."

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  107. California should be more worried about by callipygian-showsyst · · Score: 1
    ...California should be more worried about the DAVIS-STERLING act which allows "Homeowner's Associations" to foreclose on people houses WITHOUT A JUDICIAL HEARING for failing to pay some "assessment". There have been cases of people going away on vacation for a year, only to return to find their home gone because there was an "emergency assessment" while they were away that went unpaid.

    Read this for example.

    --
    Best Buy can have you arrested
    1. Re:California should be more worried about by phillymjs · · Score: 1

      There have been cases of people going away on vacation for a year, only to return to find their home gone

      Sounds like a rich person's problem to me. Let me know when some Joe Disappearing-Middle-Class gets back from a weekend in Vegas to find his house gone because of this, then maybe I'll start caring.

    2. Re:California should be more worried about by planetoid · · Score: 1

      Right, because we have to make sweeping assumptions over what something "sounds" like.

      So any Californian who goes to Japan to teach English for a year is automatically the "rich elite"? Californian architect or engineer who assist in a series of buildings constructed in Egypt is automatically a "rich person"? Oh but I guess it's not worth caring about, because fixing it "might" make a handful of "rich people" happy.

      And some people wonder why there's such a blatant ideological divide in this country. Sad.

      --
      Slashdot requires you to wait longer between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment.
    3. Re:California should be more worried about by the+eric+conspiracy · · Score: 1

      Sounds like a rich person's problem to me

      You are wrong. The people being hurt by this are average working stiffs. Rich people hire custodians for their property so this won't happen. The average Joe gets sick, unemployed, has to move in woth his family, etc. Bye-bye house.

  108. One word: by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    Powerbook

    (I guess if you must insist on a Windows computer, Thinkpads are decent too.)

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    1. Re:One word: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perfect option, kill 2 birds with one stone. Not giving your money to $ony for providing the rootkit and not giving your money to Micro$oft for allowing such malware.

  109. Update corporate policy not to play Sony CD in PC by sci50514 · · Score: 0

    Wow...this issue is getting scary and the list of CDs is very long. I am going to issue a warning to my office to stay away from Sony-BMG CD. I don't want some rootkit that install on the PCs and gain backdoor access to the company PCs. It's a big security risk.

  110. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by 192939495969798999 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So within a few weeks, someone will have a machine that when you put the protected disc in, it copies it on the first run and removes said flags. Sony will in effect build an even stronger incentive to hack and hack well. If you can pull it off, you'll be the hero beating evil Sony's "run once, run nowhere else" strategy, plus you'll be a great coder who wrote software that has to work right the first try.

    --
    stuff |
  111. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by flatface · · Score: 2, Informative

    You seem to have forgotten Blizzard vs. bnetd.

  112. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by shotfeel · · Score: 1

    Yeah, won't that be great if I ever buy a second PS3 a few years down the road to replace a used and battered older PS3. Or my kids finally move out on their own, buy their own PS3 and want to play their old games on their new PS3.

    If they actually do this, I may go with the other devil and buy an X Box. Or maybe I'll just go buy a Revolution.

  113. implementation? by Ender+Ryan · · Score: 2, Interesting
    I just cannot see Sony actually implementing this nonsense. I can't even imagine how many people would be turned away by that.

    Well, that'd be a surefire way to get Microsoft to succeed in Japan :)

    --
    Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
    1. Re:implementation? by Jarnis · · Score: 1

      Common sense says 'yup, no way Sony will be stupid enough to do this'.

      Then you ponder... 'filing a patent costs money. They already drove straight off the cliff with this braindead DRM implementation...'

      And then you start to wonder. Could they *really* be this braindead? But if they have no intention to use this ever, why file a patent? It *is* an old patent, the original japanese one is several years old, but if there is no intention to exploit it, why file it here in US?

      Funnily, Japan has no concept of 'First Sale', so there this would, I assume, be perfectly OK. In the US I dunno what would happen. I would be exciting to watch - in a way it's exciting to watch a train wreck in slow-motion :)

    2. Re:implementation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I just cannot see Sony actually implementing this nonsense.

      Ha, absolutely no problem for Sony. Plz, check the fate of their technically revolutionar ebook reader Librie:

      http://www.dottocomu.com/b/archives/002571.html

      Actually implemented insanity. Sony's brand.

  114. Three Wrongs Is Right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    ok, so I know two wrongs don't make a right ... but surely three wrongs make it right?

    Wrong#1: 'pirates' (aahr matey!) infringe copy-right
    Wrong#2: Sony adds root-kit to audio CDs
    Wrong#3isRight!: I stop buying CDs, and download them instead...

  115. sony hits Macs too! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    From Macintouch today:

    A reader followed up on the discovery that Sony was playing a dirty trick on its customers, secretly installing a malware-style "root kit" on their computers via audio CDs:

    I recently purchased Imogen Heap's new CD (Speak for Yourself), an RCA Victor release, but with distribution credited to Sony/BMG. Reading recent reports of a Sony rootkit, I decided to poke around. In addition to the standard volume for AIFF files, there's a smaller extra partition for "enhanced" content. I was surprised to find a "Start.app" Mac application in addition to the expected Windows-related files. Running this app brings up a long legal agreement, clicking Continue prompts you for your username/password (uh-oh!), and then promptly exits. Digging around a bit, I find that Start.app actually installs 2 files: PhoenixNub1.kext and PhoenixNub12.kext.
        Personally, I'm not a big fan of anyone installing kernel extensions on my Mac. In Sony's defense, upon closer reading of the EULA, they essentially tell you that they will be installing software. Also, this is apparently not the same technology used in the recent Windows rootkits (made by XCP), but rather a DRM codebase developed by SunnComm, who promotes their Mac-aware DRM technology on their site.

    so, Mac users have been safe up 'til now......

  116. Sort of OT by DarkEdgeX · · Score: 1

    But I hope Sony gets blasted for this big time-- the result of which will hopefully convince them to put less potentially damaging DRM into Blu-ray. (I'd read somewhere that Blu-ray may have the ability to permanently disable players that have been compromised via hacking, for example). It probably won't, but it's just some wishful thinking that hopefully this drive towards DRM will convince them (and other media companies) to back off.

    --
    All I know about Bush is I had a good job when Clinton was president.
  117. Direct Uninstall Link by umrgregg · · Score: 1

    This is the link you get from sony after jumping through a lot of hurdles:

    http://www.xcp-aurora.com/support/sonybmg/process. aspx?opt=1&id=XYAUfasSFoSdasfDoFPPEWFFEoibnaZPQlSf FgKGSGGIA [xcp-aurora.com]

    See:

    http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/sony-you- dont-reeeeaaaally-want-to_09.html [sysinternals.com]

    Enjoy

    --
    NMG
    1. Re:Direct Uninstall Link by umrgregg · · Score: 1

      Oh, wow, that sucked retry :)

      This is the link you get from sony after jumping through a lot of hurdles:

      http://www.xcp-aurora.com/support/sonybmg/process. aspx?opt=1&id=XYAUfasSFoSdasfDoFPPEWFFEoibnaZPQlSf FgKGSGGIA

      See:

      http://www.sysinternals.com/blog/2005/11/sony-you- dont-reeeeaaaally-want-to_09.html

      Enjoy

      --
      NMG
  118. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by justin12345 · · Score: 1

    Man, Macs are never affected by anything. I'm really beginning to feel left out. Its really offensive that Sony didn't even bother to port their crappy DRM to Macintosh.

    As a Mac user, I'm sick and tired of of software vendors like Sony not supporting the Mac. Over a million people switched last year, the user base is there. Apple goes way out of their way to make it easy to port software to the Mac, and yet there is still only a paltry selection on spyware and malware that will run on Apple hardware without VPC.

    --
    Cool art gallery, if you're into that sort of thing.
  119. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by QuestorTapes · · Score: 1

    >> It's important to make sure that the major labels realise that while DRM is
    >> legal, there are limits to what people will tolerate - and damaging peoples
    >> machines is not something that people are going to tolerate.

    > It's not simply a question of tolerance or not; some DRM may be "legal", but
    > (IANAL) installing a root-kit on someone's machine without notification or
    > permission almost certainly isn't.

    In other words, DRM is legal, but that does not mean that -everything- that vendors wish to do to protect their content under DRM is legal.

    It's like protecting your home. I can set up alarms and locks, I can buy a gun. I -can't- tie a gun to a trap and set it up to kill a criminal who breaks in.

  120. What is Sony actually wins? by TuomasK · · Score: 1

    What is Sony wins and court rules that the rootkit is ok to use and legal? All software that remove or tampers with the drm would probably be illegal in California?

    --
    The truth or interpretation..
  121. All Right Class... by Spock+the+Baptist · · Score: 1

    Your homework problem is to determine the 'safe' distance from the gravel truck for hights of 5 ft., 7 ft., 9 ft., and 11 ft. using simple kinematic formulas (i.e. ignore aerodynamic effects).

    Hights referring to the distance between the road surface and the bed or top of the gravel truck.

    Discussion Questions:

    Would the speed of the gravel truck make a difference in the 'safe' distance? Why?

    Would the flatness of the road make a difference in the 'safe' distance? Why?

    Would the direction and speed of the wind make a difference in the 'safe' distance? Why?

    {Non-disclaimer disclaimer} IAPP

    --
    "Oh drat these computers, they're so naughty and so complex, I could pinch them." --Marvin the Martian
    1. Re:All Right Class... by thc69 · · Score: 2, Funny
      Would the direction and speed of the wind make a difference in the 'safe' distance?
      No.
      Why?
      Because:
      (i.e. ignore aerodynamic effects).
      --
      Procrastination -- because good things come to those who wait.
    2. Re:All Right Class... by trentblase · · Score: 1

      Awesome...

  122. A EULA is a Contract? by computer_redneck · · Score: 3, Interesting

    If this is so, isn't the law of the US that Children under 18 are not legally bound or able to enter into a contract with anyone without permission of the parent? If this is so and a EULA is a Contract then technically doesnt that mean that anyone under the age of 18 in the US is not bound by the EULA?

    Just curious.

    --
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BF
    1. Re:A EULA is a Contract? by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

      Probably true.

      That also means that nobody under 18 has the legal right to listen to CDs produced by Sony.. which can only be a good thing :)

    2. Re:A EULA is a Contract? by computer_redneck · · Score: 1

      So would this also mean that any software with a EULA is also not supposed to be used by those under 18 or is it that the EULA could not be enforced against someone under 18? If this is true would make for a very interesting situation in software.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." - BF
  123. Normally, I oppose piracy. But I'll make exception by elrous0 · · Score: 1
    Anyone who wants to pirate this music to avoid Sony's dangerous malware is not pirating, IMHO. By trying to infect users' computers with this spyware, Sony has crossed WAY over the line. Users are perfectly justified taking the neccessary steps to protect their machines and that means not buying these discs and not giving Sony their money (lest it encourage other companies to pull similar stunts)

    I truly hope Sony gets their asses sued off in every state of the Union for this one. I hope it drives them into near-bankruptcy and leads their CEO to commit Seppuku in devestating shame. I hope this implodes in their face so bad that even the mention of adding this sort of malware DRM to future products will cause CEO's across the globe to involuntarily urinate on themselves.

    The fact that these crazy fucks are going to be the ones to decide the DRM scheme for blu-ray is absolutely frightening.

    -Eric

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
  124. Still waiting ... by Grand+V'izer · · Score: 1

    I'm still waiting for a lawsuit to be filed saying that Sony has violated the DMCA by hacking into our computers.

    --
    Not all random numbers are created equally.
  125. A Lawsuit? by KGB+is+My+Name · · Score: 2, Funny

    A Lawsuit? Where, when and how do I sign up???

  126. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    Sony is patenting a method for games console discs to be tied to the console unit they're first ran on. No second hand game sales or loaning of games

    Just wait until they find out that this absolutely kills sales of the PS3 console. Sharing, selling off old games to buy new ones, and copying of games is one thing that keeps sales high. Take that away from a console that is already about to set a new high-price record as it is, and you're going to shoot yourself in the foot.

    Then the other shoe drops when a PS3 has to be replaced because of damage, theft, or other. When the legally purchased games quit working it really hits the fan, after which Sony has to release a workaround to this problem. And once that workaround is out in the wild, all this effort has been for naught plus terrible customer relations yet again!

    Sony is definitely in the running for dumbest company yet!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  127. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by dlZ · · Score: 1
    I'm really torn on this, because I want to forbid my girlfriend from buying any more Sony products (I personally have been boycotting them for years already -- their hard-on for proprietary formats (e.g. Memory Stick) was enough for me), but I know her family really likes gaming, and buys every console that comes out. I hate to do it, but I may have to issue the ultimatum "Do not buy a Playstation 3, because I will be forced to break up with you if you do."

    How about you ask her nicely not to purchase the system and explain your reasons? I don't forbid my fiance to do anything, I discuss with her why I boycott certain things (Walmart, Starbucks, whatever) and then ask her if she'd support me and also not go to these places. With an incentive of "Do not buy a Playstation 3, because I will be forced to break up with you if you do" I'd think you'd be in the market for a new gaming system to fill up all that free time in your new single lifestyle.

    --
    rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp
  128. Don't worry! by Hitto · · Score: 1

    Give if a few year's time and you will be able to...

  129. Re:Misleadings, expansions, and lawsuits abound !! by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    Finally, Sony really doesn't have any solid defense against the charge that they violated the Consumer Protection Against Consumer Spyware Act, *unless* the act specifies that spyware can only be classified as such if it submits personally identifiable information back to the authors or a third party. I'm not too clear on that regard- anyone have information they can add on that count?

    Your IP number is part of the "Phone Home" packet, along with the time you were using that IP. For an RIAA lawsuit that's all they need for starters. I'd say therefore that it's pretty identifyable.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  130. Re:Boycotting DRM *forever* - EBAY! by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 3, Informative
    But there HAS to be a few clever electrical and computer engineers out there who will make a new company *specifically* to have non-drm chips.

    There are already 10's of millions of non-TPC computers in the world. You should be able to live the rest of your life buying cheap used computers off of eBay to use.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  131. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Jarnis · · Score: 1

    That's the question, I suppose.

    In theory, if this was implemented, would it be OK for the manufacturer to 'deny' your rights under First Sale by implementing a DRM bit that would prevent you from using that right to resell the product?

    I'm no laywer, but to me it's unclear. Yes, you have every right to sell that shiny disc, but nobody would buy it, because it wouldn't work on their systems.

    Bit like selling a boxed copy of Half Life 2 that has been activated on Steam and tied to an account. You can sell those CDs/DVD, but why would anyone buy them without the steam account information?

    What if, in the future, that activation is tied to specific license key of an operating system, or something comparably braindead? ... :)

  132. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by csplinter · · Score: 1

    Yea, I share the sentiment for your hate of Sony, but that sounds like a pretty bad idea if you like having your girlfriend around.

  133. Re:Sony not found for comments...SIG by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    ...as they have renamed themselves to $sys$Sony...

    I see the makings of a Slashdot Sig in your comment.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  134. Re:Rootkit, Autorun? MOD PARENT UP by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    If I was Bill Gates, I'd be pissed and calling up Sony and threatning to send them up the bomb... Think of how many more people this will drive from windows to MACS.

    Definitely Insightful! This certainly harms Window's reputation yet again, while leaving other OS's untouched. MS should sue -- but then again they're trying to strike a deal to market Sony-BMG music at the same time.

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  135. Rip the AV Vendors as Well Over This! by Nom+du+Keyboard · · Score: 1
    The anti-virus vendors deserve to be ripped as well over this. Not for not knowing about it in the first place, although F-Secure was apparently hot on the trail of it. Instead for saying that while they will flag it now, they don't plan on actually removing it!

    I expect my AV program to remove unwanted crap off of my system. Not capitulate to the media interests. It's like when Microsoft's recently purchased adware/spyware app suddenly stopped flagging as malicious the unwanted software from a company they'd just purchased, and which they'd previously flagged and removed before!

    They're all thieves!

    --
    "It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
  136. Confidential Sony conversations by mitcheli · · Score: 0

    Imagine the scene, the developers from First 4 Internet and the Sony reps discussing how this system work...

    Sony: But isn't that illegal?
    FI: Technically, probably, but no one will ever find it...
    Sony: And your sure about this right?
    FI: Oh yeah, no doubt, not even Windows knows it's there! That's the beauty!
    Sony: Ok... well if your really sure...
    FI: Absolutely!
    Sony Lawyers: Don't worry, we'll cover our rears in the EULA...
    Sony: Well then sounds good to me.

    --
    Select from tblFriends where interesting >= 4;
  137. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by utexaspunk · · Score: 1

    I hope you're kidding. That has to be the most retarded reason I've ever heard for breaking up with someone. If I were her, I'd break up with you just on principle for issuing an ultimatum like that.

  138. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by MidnightPsycho · · Score: 1

    Another tidbit of information .....

    I believe this is the patent application for the rootkit DRM:
    http://tinyurl.com/9vt5v

    Have a look at the "Supervisory Program" in section [0047]

  139. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How about something like "Don't buy a Sony game console unless it has been fitted with a modchip"? Sony doesn't make money on the console itself, they make their money on the game licensing. That means if you get a chipped console and just download or rent/rip the games for it Sony will lose money. Note that this applies as long as you don't buy games for it, even if all you do is run homebrew software (like XBMC on the Xbox) on it.

  140. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    On the first - there's an EULA tied to a custom music player included on the CD which Sony are trying to use as a catch-all.

    I'm still not convinced that this contains anything like sufficient explanation of what Sony's rootkit will do to someone's machine.

    In fact, there's *nothing* in there that suggests on any reasonable reading that a damn *rootkit* will be installed on the user's machine. As I said, IANAL, but if that stands up in court, it doesn't say much about the court system in that country.

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  141. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by avasol · · Score: 0

    Actually, at the risk of sounding like an anal besserwisser, this is wrong but many people believe this. The EULA by click-through is actively enforced in legislation across most western civilisations.

    This means; you click "Accept" on the EULA and should the computer used when doing this likely be considered yours personally, *family members unaccounted for, you're screwed. Microsoft is the worlds' largest farm owner of so called "EULA Slaves", people who have actively and willingly given up their right to ever legally appear or be represented by in court. Including me. And most likely, including you.

    Yes, that's quite scary. Think Sony's DRM kit has you by the nuts? Man, it's a wet willy. Think again.

    * This seems to imply complete lack of judicial meaning even though current praxis states otherwise, meaning the following; even if your son or ignorant dad clicks Accept on some weird software, you can be liable (certainly in the U.S, check Groklaw) and previous articles at Slashdot).

  142. Wanna sue the pants off Sony? by carre4 · · Score: 1

    EFF is considering suing the pants off of Sony over its rootkit DRM technology. To figure out whether there's a case, EFF is looking to hear from potential plaintiffs. If you match the criteria below, email allison AT eff DOT org. 1. you have a Windows computer; 2. First 4 Internet's "xcp" copy protection has been installed on your computer from a Sony CD (for more details, see our blog post referenced above or SysInternals blog); 3. you reside in either California or New York; 4. you are willing to participate in litigation.

  143. Why all the attention on Sony? by supabeast! · · Score: 1

    I can understand suing Sony and why the media is blaming Sony for all of this, but why aren't people in the security community blasting Microsoft for making autorun a default operation that, at least in Windows XP, can only be disabled by editing registry entries? If Microsoft was doing their job as an OS provider and not actively discouraging users from disabling autorun, a trojan like this one would be a lot harder to distribute.

    1. Re:Why all the attention on Sony? by earache · · Score: 3, Informative

      It doesn't require auto-run to be disabled or enabled. You have to use the media player software that comes on the CD to play the CD.

      PS. iTunes for Windows will turn on auto-run if you have it disabled.

  144. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

    Hey, our laws in these situations aren't as bad as you seem to think! It's not all bad over here!

    I *know*; I live in the UK as well, hence my knowledge of the EU consumer law which applies to me. As I said, UK/EU consumer law is generally better than the US, and anyway, speaking personally, I'd much rather live under Scottish/British/EU law than the US (*); though that, to some extent, probably reflects my political beliefs.

    (*) Which isn't to say that there aren't good things about the US- granted a lot of them are in theory rather than practice, but the idea of a written constitution (for example) is something that Britain should do (but probably won't).

    --
    "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  145. Fair enough... by cqnn · · Score: 1

    Fair enough, let the label raise the price of the CD, and claim it as
    a software title. Then me, you, and every other computer user can legally
    review it as a piece of software:

    "So I purchased this game called ...
      the soundtrack is pretty good, but the gaming experience frankly, sucked.
      All it really seemed to do was let me hide a few files from prying eyes.

    Then I went an purchased (with my hard earned money) ...
      Again the soundtrack was decent, and the kind of stuff I would buy
    on a CD all by itself if I could; but would you believe they put an
    almost exact version of the same game as before? It wouldn't even
    install because it saw another version already on the system. It
    did patch a couple of files so it could send information back to the
    home office more efficiently, but that is not what I'd call "online play".

      Between the lackluster performance of the first title, and what basically
    amounted to me buying a service pack on the second, I really cannot recommend
    this "rootkitter" gaming series. I've contacted the company to see if they
    might consider releasing the soundtrack as a music CD instead.

    I also asked if they had plans on improving gameplay for the Linux port,
    but they don't seem to know about alternative OSes at all. "

  146. Just the opposite by bluGill · · Score: 1

    If you do not have that bumper sticker, and lock the breaks when someone is too close, you can argue when sued that you "had nothing against the person behind you, but you thought you saw a kid about to run in front of you. You realized a moment latter that it was just a shadow".

    If you have that bumper sticker though, the guy behind you (if his lawyer is smart) will argue that you plan on locking your breaks anytime someone gets "too close" (and the lawyer will point out that too close was not defined). This clearly shows you intend to cause harm (locking your breaks could kill the person behind you), and you would be liable.

    I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice. If you need specifics see a lawyer.

  147. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

    A eula can't bypass possible criminal liability under the Computer Misuse Act.

    EULAs have generally been held to be unenforcable in the UK anyway by courts.. they don't include standard the 'if any part of this contract is invalid the rest still holds' clause so they get struck out in their entireity by judges.

  148. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Tony+Hoyle · · Score: 1

    Great. When you repair/replace your PS3 all your games become coasters.

    Not sure how that can work anyway... CD is a read only medium, unless it requires an internet connection (which it aint getting.. I wouldn't trust sony not to abuse it).

  149. Sorry, not a virus. by cqnn · · Score: 1

    Spyware? Yes, it hides in your systen and checks on your activites and
    what other programs you have lauched are doing.

    Malware? Probably, while it does not attempt to damage the system in and
    of itself, it does use additional resources unnecessarily; which can
    affect other applications like virus scanners and distributed computing
    projects. And it has been shown to leave the computer in a vulnerable
    state, and can even affect system stability if it is not removed properly.

    Trojan Horse? Unlikely, although it is a hidden payload, you are supposedly
    given token notice of it in the form of the EULA. EULAs notwithstanding,
    you should be allowed to find out what is being installed before you agree to that happening.

    Virus? No. It doesn't attempt to propogate itself thru the system or to
    other systems, it does not attempt to modify other system files or executables
    (without permission); and it is not specifically designed to
    expose vulnerabilities in the system, to damage the system files or data,
    or to utilize the system for some other (possibly illegal) purpose.

    IANAL either...
    While the XCP software can probably be argued as a form of malware, I think
    Sony lawyers would be able to mount an effective enough defense against
    claiming it as a virus that it would not be worth attempting a lawsuit.

      Raising awareness, and leaving it in the court of public opinion could be
    just as effective a form of litigation under the circumstances.

    1. Re:Sorry, not a virus. by The+Master+Control+P · · Score: 1
      Malware? Probably, while it does not attempt to damage the system in and of itself, it does use additional resources unnecessarily; which can affect other applications like virus scanners and distributed computing projects. And it has been shown to leave the computer in a vulnerable state, and can even affect system stability if it is not removed properly.
      It allows anyone to hide any file they want by simply renaming the file, and opens security vulnerabilities that apparently have already been exploited. The immediately obvious remedy, deleting it's files, will render your CD drives unusable. If that isn't damaging my system, what is?
  150. I didn't agree to the EULA if my wife plays a CD by vinn01 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    My wife might have played one of these Sony CDs on our computer. I didn't agree to the Sony EULA. But I'm the one who will have to spend my time cleaning up Sony's mess.

    That is one point that I've never seen a good answer to: On PC's used by more than one person, there is only one person that "agreed" to the EULA.

    How can the EULA be applied to the other users who may not even know that the EULA exists (let alone what is says)?

    Anyone? Anyone? Bueller?

  151. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by ZachPruckowski · · Score: 1

    unless it requires an internet connection
    If they require an internet connection for PS3, they'll lose a lot of sales from people with dial-up (and there are a lot of those left). I don't think we're at that point for this generation of videogames. Maybe next generation.

  152. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Brobock · · Score: 1

    (Sony is patenting a method for games console discs to be tied to the console unit they're first ran on. No second hand game sales or loaning of games...)

    This would be cracked the first day it came out. All one would do is mirror the re-writable sector of a disc and re-image it onto the disc that was modified. Unless of course they use some sort of write once type system. If they did this, if your game console is under warranty and had to be replaced, they would be obligated to replace every title for that console as well. This would not be very cost effective for them to use this.

  153. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by KitesWorld · · Score: 1

    in fact, there's *nothing* in there that suggests on any reasonable reading that a damn *rootkit* will be installed on the user's machine.

    You've got to remember that most people are not technically proficient - 'a rootkit is just software, right? Well, the EULA mentions installing software, So ah guess ah let them...'

    I'm not trying to defend SONY or anything, just pointing out that they *might* be able to get away with it. What they *WONT* be able to get away with imo, is the outright lie.

    However, the SOFTWARE will not be used at any time to collect any personal information from you, whether stored on YOUR COMPUTER or otherwise. - the software attempts to connect to two servers every time you use it to play a CD. It passes those servers an ID number (believed to be the CD's ID) via http - which means they also have logs of your IP, when you listen to what, and by extrapolation how often you listen to those CD's.

    It also attempts to download banners and so on, so there's quite a bit of infomation that SONY could get hold of via the software.

    And on top of that, they get personal infomation (data on your system configuration, and your email address which they can use for marketing) if you try to uninstall the bloody thing through them. So yeah, it's a pretty serious misrepresentation, and that's what they're gonna get nailed on, methinks.

    But, as always, IANAL, so i could be off the mark on this myself.

  154. Oh that's typical by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    California and New York to sue Sony? Typical sue-happy mentality we'd expect from the east-coast and west-coast intellectual elite! They're only doing this because it was a country music CD!!

    I hope George Bush intervenes and has the governors of these states arrested for treason. GOD BLESS AMERICA!!

  155. Are not necessarily free to act by maildeaddrop · · Score: 1
    I'm entirely free to share it with other people so long as I'm not breaking other laws by doing so (e.g. - committing fraud, espionage, etc.).


    IANAL, but under U.S. copyright law the writer of the letter (or email in this case) is the copyright holder. So you may need to get the author's permission to re-publish. See:
    Salinger v. Random House, Inc., 811 F.2d 90 (2d Cir. 1987).
  156. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by bnenning · · Score: 1

    I seem to recall hearing that NO EULAs have stood up in court.

    Sadly, this is not true. ProCD v Zeidenberg and the recent bnetd case are two examples. It's astounding to me that they're not laughed out of court since they blatantly fail the "meeting of the minds" and consideration requirements of real contracts. (Obviously, IANAL).

    --
    How to solve most of our problems: 1.Lots of nuclear plants. 2.Cure aging.
  157. Let's use it against them! by koma77 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Why not record a bunch of crappy songs, burn them on a CD and send them for review to SONY. And, of course, just to make sure they don't copy it illegally, let's fill the CD with our OWN rootkit/spyware/phone-home/whatever! Let 'em have it! And a EULA the size of the yellow pages...

  158. oops by digitaldc · · Score: 1

    I stand corrected....Bad Plus is the band, sorry guys and gals.

    --
    He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
  159. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    Even at that, Sony can still brag about their marketshare. I'd rather the thing be the kind of flop that the media notices, like the Dreamcast. In other words, by buying a PS3 it would still appear that I was supporting Sony.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  160. Same here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What's to stop them from putting DRM on the Vaios? I trust them even less than I usually trust companies (which isn't very much).

    And yeah, I was considering getting a laptop. Vaio *would* have been fairly high up on that list of laptops I would have considered.

    Sony products have been put at the *very* bottom of that list thanks to this incident, so if I get a laptop, I'm not even going to consider getting a Vaio, much less any other Sony gear.

  161. Where's the Mainstream Media coverage!?! by Absentminded-Artist · · Score: 1
    This story has been out for 11 days and I still find it covered only in tech blogs and journals, a Washington Post blog notwithstanding. California filed their lawsuit ONE DAY after the rootkit was discovered. This isn't news? What is wrong with the MSM? Could it be the Sony exec that Brian Krebs quoted is correct?
    "Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?"


    This is unconscionable. So many people laud the power of blogs, but they don't seem to be acting enough as a catalyst in this case.
    --
    The Splintered Mind - Overcoming
  162. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

    Well yeah, of course asking her nicely and explaining my reasons is a better idea! I just worry that that might not be convincing enough. The purpose of an ultimatum would be to illustrate to her (and, more importantly, to her family, which would be the ones giving her the PS3 as a present) just how important the issue actually is.

    --

    "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

  163. Re:I didn't agree to the EULA if my wife plays a C by burndive · · Score: 1

    If you live in a community property state, your wife has as much of a legal right to that computer as you do. Also, even if it were some guy off the street and not your wife we were discussing, by authorizing anyone to use your computer with an administrator account (i.e., able to install stuff into the operating system) you are accepting responsibility for their actions. It's just like lending a car to someone: you'd better make sure they have insurance, and won't park in the handicap spot, run red lights, etc. If you don't trust your wife to safely use your computer, just set up a normal (non-admin) user account.

    --
    ...because "hacker" sounds way sexier than "code drone."
  164. Someone *PLEASE* help me by SteveXE · · Score: 1

    So like most people I use to use Napster to download my music and then I switched to Kazaa, I was in highschool and really couldnt afford to buy cd's, even more so since there was never a full cd I would ever buy cause 80% of the songs suck. So now i buy songs from iTunes like a good little boy, the only time I download something is when iTunes doesnt sell it.

    So Sony's way of adding value and getting me to start buying cd's again was to add DRM to them? Then on top of that they decided it would be even better if they add'd DRM that undermines the user, spies on them, and damages their system?

    CD's are dead, they have lived far too long as it is and I really dont see them becoming more popular if companies are making them less and less usefull. Why not just put a small tax, maybe $5 per every $100 on every single cd player, mp3 player (but not on computers) and have that money go to ARTISTS, then let everyone download whatever they want without fear? People will still buy their music, its not like you have to say "OK GO DOWNLOAD!!!" At the same time you will win people like me over, ill download a little and buy alot, and since I paid my little tax you should be very very happy. The next step would be content, how about you start promoting artists with real talent and you stop trying to make flavor of the months who suck? You wonder why sales are down, its simple really...the product sucks and we know it!

    1. Re:Someone *PLEASE* help me by KitesWorld · · Score: 1

      FYI : They (the media cartels) *already* have a 'tax' on the sale of blank media - CD's, cassette tapes, you name it. I don't think they're getting a cut of the money from H.D.D's or MP3 players - but you may recall seeing an article on slashdot a few weeks ago where one of their CEO's was raving about not getting a cut from Ipod sales.

      Of course, although they reasoned that it would support the artists, we all know that when the cartels are involved, the artists get zip.



      I don't consider CD's dead, by the way. They've become too commonplace and there's too much history on them for them to simply die - in the same way that LP's are still popular despite their age. The media itself still has life in it - we just need to start buying from indie's and let the big five collapse under their own weight. Heck, music from indies tends to be both better and cheaper anyway.

    2. Re:Someone *PLEASE* help me by SteveXE · · Score: 1

      I know about those articles, ive read them...but when i say give the money to the artist's i mean it.

      I agree the cd itself isnt dead, i said it wrong, but selling audio cd's in stores to me at least is(dead). If i need a audio cd ill just burn it. I havent purchased a cd at retail for probably 10 years and I will never buy one in the future, to me its pointless.

  165. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by SeattleGameboy · · Score: 4, Interesting
    It is even worse than that.

    http://news.com.com/Antivirus+firms+target+Sony+ro otkit/2100-1029_3-5942265.html?part=rss&tag=594226 5&subj=news

    Excerpts:

    However, Computer Associates, which has a security division, said on Monday it had found further security risks in the Sony software and was releasing a tool to uninstall it directly.

    According to Computer Associates, the Sony software makes itself a default media player on a computer after it is installed. The software then reports back the user's Internet address and identifies which CDs are played on that computer. Intentionally or not, the software also seems to damage a computer's ability to "rip" clean copies of MP3s from non-copy protected CDs, the security company said.

    "It will effectively insert pseudo-random noise into a file so that it becomes less listenable," said Sam Curry, a Computer Associates vice president. "What's disturbing about this is the lack of notice, the lack of consent, and the lack of an easy removal tool."

    So, not only is it spying on you, it even prevents you from making good copies of the CD's WITHOUT any DRM!!! The BALLS!

  166. Shoot the straw man, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Naturally the "industry" blames the naptster effect, but Harvard business school suggests otherwise.
    http://www.unc.edu/~cigar/papers/FileSharing_March 2004.pdf
    or google harvard privacy study for the HTML version.

  167. Re:I didn't agree to the EULA if my wife plays a C by vinn01 · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...you are accepting responsibility for their actions.

    No, I'm not.

    I think that your analogy is wrong. It's more like if my wife gets caught speeding in our (community property) car. I don't get a ticket. I don't agree to show up in court. She has to accept responsibility for her actions. I am not bound by any agreement that she makes (Like: "Yes, officer I'll slow down...").

    That is closer to the EULA that she agrees to on our (community property) computer. I don't know if an agreement was offered/made. And I have no idea what the contents of the agreement is. How does any court figure that I'm bound to the EULA?

  168. But this isn't about piracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The crazy thing about the DMCA is that avoiding this Digital Restriction Management scheme is illegal, even if you're doing it to keep your computer from getting pwned by someone using this lovely rootkit.
    w00t!

  169. Enhanced CD's by bmantz65 · · Score: 1

    This reminds me of those terrible "Enhanced CD's" Whatever to just popping a CD in and it plays without trouble or some stupid Macromedia application launching?

  170. What happens if you don't agree by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A friend of mine has one of these didsks and he showed me how it works under Windows XP. If you don't agree to the eula, the disk ejects and you can't play it. It you put the disk in with autoplay turned off, all you see is the software and no tunes. He had to install isobuster to take apart the CD to get to the music.
      He also showed me the disk under Linux. You insert the disk and it just plays like normal. There is an extra, unplayable track shown under Linux,

  171. Sony makes you FAT! by TiggertheMad · · Score: 1

    Sony has made a mistake of epic proportions. Watch their sales numbers. I bet dollars to doughnuts it takes a drammatic drop.

    I bet they don't. Here is why: I worked at ChipmUSA in college. (Horrible store, btw. Never shop there if you can avoid it). Anyway, the sheer volume of stupid people who came in to buy crappy computers is staggering. And when I say stupid, I'm talking about otherwise intelligent people who can't be bothered to learn or understand what they are buying. No research, no advicem, just straight to the cheapest POS on the shelf. I was amazed that the lack of care they excercised in evaluating features. They sucked down packard bells and compaqs like blow off a hooker's ass.

    Sony will do just fine in sales if they don't get sued into oblivion. You want to hurt their sales? Do something that will get the average american's attention: Get a TV reporters to do a story about how there might be a connection between Sony Compact Disks and ciminal obesity.

    --

    HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
  172. Celine, Neil Diamond, Ricky Martin,....and TREY by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i remember when Phish used to fight their old label for the rights of their fans who wanted to tape and trade their live shows.

    How things have changed.

    How much he now wants to be Dave Matthews.

    zeke

  173. Contracts don't supercede laws... by Max+Nugget · · Score: 1

    IANAL, but IIRC it's a basic tenet of contract law that you CANNOT create a contract in which agreements are made to violate existing laws. For example, if you sign a contract with your neighbor that authorizes you to kill him, and it includes an indemnity clause waiving his family's right to sue you for civil damages, and/or waiving the state's right to charge you with first-degree murder, such a contract would be worthless, A) because, obviously, the rights to press criminal charges belong to the state, not the murder victim, and, more relevantly to this topic, B) you simply can't make a contract whose premise is an illegal act (murder).

    This is why California is suing. If Sony's actions breached existing laws, the EULA is irrelevant. And, regarding the third charge they make, not all laws (or "rights") that apply to you are yours to legally waive. Apparently there's a consumer protection law that states as much for that particular waiver in Sony's EULA.

  174. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by dlZ · · Score: 1

    If I was her parent I would tell her to move on. I'm not trying to be an ass, but giving an ultimatum to someone you are supposed to love (or at least really care about) doesn't sound like a good idea. Maybe explaining the situation to her parents would work out better than explaining it to her. Just doesn't seem to be very tactful. More than likely is she really wants it, nothing anyone says is going to do anything about it. If the quality is as high as the inintial release of the PS/2, though, you won't have to worry about it kicking around too long at least!

    --
    rm -rf ./evidence @ punkcomp
  175. Re:I didn't agree to the EULA if my wife plays a C by WhiteKnight07 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I've got an intersting queestion. Since these are music CD's it stands to reason that a good portion of them will be purchased by minors. (people under 18) Since minors can't legally agree to a contract or other legally binding agreement is the EULA enforcable if a minor buys the CD, puts it in there computer, and unknowingly hits "I agree."? Is the EULA simply not enforcable or are they technically not allowed to play the CD by virtue of not being able to agree to the lisence?

    --


    We're going to make information free Mr. Anderson, whether you like it, or not.
  176. Re:By the way, here's another interesting tidbit.. by oneandoneis2 · · Score: 1

    Apologies: I misread the your consumer laws are generally weaker than the EU's bit as meaning weaker protection for the consumer.

    --
    So.. it has come to this
  177. Anyone affected in Minnesota by sandberglaw · · Score: 1

    I'm a geeky attorney in Minnesota, and I'm interested in talking with anyone in Minnesota who has suffered a problem (either on their personal computer or in a work setting) after having a Sony music disk (non-Red Book, not a CD) install itself onto their computer. Contact info: cksandberg@locklaw.com.

  178. Heh by kuzb · · Score: 1

    "I'm sorry Mr. Schwartzeneggar, but you can't rip that rootkit protected Sony audio CD"

    "I'll be back!"

    --
    BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
  179. OH, NEIL DIAMOND... by merc · · Score: 1

    NOT YOU TOO!

    DAMN THE MAN!

    --
    It's true no man is an island, but if you take a bunch of dead guys and tie 'em together, they make a good raft.
  180. Mod parent up! - Great question! by vinn01 · · Score: 1

    Great question!

    I'm guessing that since minors are not allowed to agree to the Sony license, they are in violation of the EULA by listening to the music on the CD.

    Unless an adult agrees to the license and plays the music for the minor, the minor just paid $14.99 for a shiny plastic disk. By law, they have no rights to the content and no way to gain those rights.

  181. Need to go buy a CD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Need to go buy a Sony CD now so I can get in on the action! Class action, that is.

  182. Here you go, smiley. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some friends of mine; there are a lot of other bands listed at Archive.org as well. FREE. Plus there are literally thousands of MP3s out there from good bands who want you to download them, FREE.

    The problem isn't CDs, it's the major record companies. Buy your CDs from local bands.

    -mcgrew

    MRC="grapple"

  183. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by interiot · · Score: 1

    More importantly, the current situation already encourages a large majority of people to turn to lawless behavior. By turning the screws tighter, companies are encouraging MORE people to turn to lawlessness. And that's bad (for the companies) because once people start to think it's acceptable for everyone to hack a company's product for X reason, it becomes much easier to justify hacking or otherwise acting lawlessly against all of the company's products, even in more minor cases that users wouldn't have thought there was enough incentive to act lawlessly before.

  184. Why $sys$ and not... by RandallSmith · · Score: 1

    the longstanding standard -- fnord?

  185. Reasonable interpretation by Prof.+Pi · · Score: 1
    Suppose you sign a contract with me in which for $100 I promise to fix things so your neighbors stop complaining about your dog barking at night. ... Now, does any person reasonably believe that you authorized me to shoot your dog

    No, a reasonable person would believe you were going to shoot the neighbors.

  186. I hope Blizzard sues these fucks by Quattro+Vezina · · Score: 1

    Sony has already caused serious harm to Blizzard, due to their criminal negligence regarding the rootkit. Blizzard should really go after those subhumans--I seriously doubt they've ever bought one of those discs, so the EULA doesn't apply to them, and they actually have damages.

    --
    I support the Center for Consumer Freedom
  187. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by David+Gould · · Score: 1


      It's like protecting your home. I can set up alarms and locks, I can buy a gun. I -can't- tie a gun to a trap and set it up to kill a criminal who breaks in.

    Indeed. You also can't go on an indiscriminate shooting spree in a nearby poor neighborhood, reasoning that you're just protecting your home by killing the "potential burglars" who otherwise might, at some time in the future, have tried to rob you.

    I think that's a closer analogy to what Sony did: damaging all their customers' computers on the premise that some of them might have attempted to copy the CDs.

    --
    David Gould
    main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
  188. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So, what do you do when your shiny console breaks (on warrant)?
    You write on paper everything you have, "RMA" your console, get a brand new one and buy the interesting titles you had previously bought.

    Very smart!

    What's next? My television won't work if I plug it into another house?
    And just when you got a new job.. across the country. :-)

  189. What we need... by aybiss · · Score: 0

    ...is for everyone here who works in a military or government or large corporate workplace to take these CDs to work. Get the rootkit installed on your local machines, then anonymously tip off the sysadmin (if it isn't you - if it is, 'alert' (but don't alarm) your boss).

    Then we will see the shit hit the fan - Sony will be taken into custody without being charged for up to 28 days under the new anti-terrorist (read anti-freedom-of-speech) laws.

    We just got our version passed here in Australia (thanks again to the US for giving the idiots here ideas). Luckily, so-far you can only go missing for two weeks before it's 'illegal' here.

    Freqy

    --
    It's OK Bender, there's no such thing as 2.
  190. Nevermind bankruptcy by dosquatch · · Score: 1

    On the EFF post, item 7 is speaking of Article 9, paragraph 2, section iii in Sony's EULA which reads in part: "... the term of this EULA shall terminate immediately ... and all rights you may have hereunder ... shall be immediately revoked, in the event that you ... file a voluntary petition or are subject to an involuntary petition ... or are served with a writ of attachment, writ of execution, garnishment or other legal process pertaining to any of your assets or property."
    My understanding of this language (IANAL, blah blah, fine print) is that something as simple as a court order for child support invalidates your right to any material published under this EULA.
    OTOH, in the event that Sony loses one of the rootkit suits against them, I'd love to see someone argue that the "legal process pertaining to any of their assets", by their own legalese, makes all material released under this EULA public domain.

    --
    "Hey, the third matrix movie would have been good except for the plot,story, and acting." --AC
  191. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly, the US needs a new War On Hacking.

  192. Class Action Law Firm Investigating Sony CDs by Tom+Ciarlone · · Score: 1

    My law firm is investigating the situation surrounding "rootkits" on Sony-label CDs. In connection with our investigation, we are interested in learning more about the experiences consumers have had with those CDs. I can be contacted at (212) 239-4340 or, by e-mail, at tciarlone@lawssb.com.

  193. Indiscriminate shooting sprees considered legal by Tom+Christiansen · · Score: 1
    You also can't go on an indiscriminate shooting spree in a nearby poor neighborhood, reasoning that you're just protecting your home by killing the "potential burglars" who otherwise might, at some time in the future, have tried to rob you.
    Don't be ridiculous.

    Of course you can--if you're George W. Bush. And he even got away with it (so far).

    --tom

    1. Re:Indiscriminate shooting sprees considered legal by David+Gould · · Score: 1


      Heh. Yes, I suppose I should have specified that by "you", I was referring to a normal citizen, operating within the law. That was, after all, the context of the post to which I replied --- but then again, I'm not sure why any of us would assume that such restrictions would apply to a corporation. Except... that was the whole point of this article, wasn't it?

      --
      David Gould
      main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
  194. Hey Tom! by DG · · Score: 1

    Welcome back.

    DG

    --
    Want to learn about race cars? Read my Book
  195. Re:Up next: CD costs are on the rise. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If we don't buy it at $15...why would we buy it at $39? Let them raise it, shoot themselves in the foot.

  196. Maybe it was pointed out but it was WRONG by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is code in there. They have entire copies of x86-compiled LAME encoders. It doesn't matter if they are "only" being used to look for LAME, it doesn't matter. They are making and distributing binary copies of LAME. They _must_ provide source code or an offer for it, including any changes they made.

    Also, because mpg123 is not under the GPL, the source which must be released is for the program linking to it, not just for the library.

    If they do not do this then it is very much a copyright violation (AKA violation of the GPL and LPGL). Snarky smug [un]corrections won't be of help for Sony.

  197. Re:Mod parent up! - Great question! by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

    I believe being under 18 doesn't mean they aren't allowed to agree to the EULA, it juts means that their agreement isn't leagally binding. That would mean Sony's EULA wouldn't protect them (assuming the EULA is even worth the electron's it is written in).

    --
    We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  198. Re:"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

    If you use a license key you downloaded from your favorite warez site, hopefully all the games you download from that site will be tied to the same license :)

    --
    We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace