Bad Day To Be Sony

Not only is Sony no longer selling the RootKit CDs, Arend writes "According to a USAToday article, Sony is to pull their controversial rootkit CDs from store shelves." A nice gesture, but a little late. bos writes "Sony's DRM rootkit has been found by Dan Kaminsky to have infected at least half a million networks, according to an article by Quinn Norton for Wired News. Dan has even put together some pretty pictures of the breadth of the infection." With so many people infected, it's unfortunate that wiredog writes "From The Washington Post comes the news that serious security flaws have been found in the software that Sony is distributing to users who want to remove the Sony rootkit. The article says: 'Because of the way the tool is configured ... it allows any Web page that the user subsequently visits to download, install and run any code that it likes.'" Oops. Even Microsoft is getting into the act. ares284 writes "Microsoft said it would remove controversial copy-protection software that CDs from music publisher Sony BMG install on personal computers, deeming it a security risk to PCs running on Windows."

Comments

How to boycott?

[dada21]

I'm not a "boycott!!!" kind of guy. When I was younger I used to be, but no one ever stuck to it. This "error in judgement" is definitely something that I am adding to my (really small) short list of company-groups I won't buy from. I already won't buy CDs without the "CD" logo. I won't buy Sony TVs or receivers for the last 4 years because of their terrible support policies. I won't buy anything from Menard's either. And now Sony music CDs are permanently out.

How do those who are active boycotters stick to it? Do you actively pursue telling others, or is it just a "one person, one dollar, one vote" kind of life lead?

I could care less if other people want to support Sony artists or Sony products. All mercantilistic (using government to acquire wealth) corporations are bad, but that doesn't mean that every business is bad. Sony has actually been one of the least mercantilistic corporation I've tracked over the years, but their releasing of items without proper quality control is what kills them time and again.

And I believe that is the problem with this rootkit. Sony didn't test it properly. If they had tested it properly and kept it within its own little world on a customer's PC, I don't think the fallout would have been so excessive. They didn't test the product, they relied on the customers to do so. Luckily for Sony, the customers weren't happy and were vocal about it.

That is the free market at work. People unhappy about a company or a product have much more of a voice with the web being so readily available. The more the Internet allows billions of citizens to align on different issues, the more we'll see that a free market "democracy" is better than a democracy built around the use of force.

Vote with your dollars.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

you did not type that all in the 30 seconds since the story was posted....

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he's a subscriber and typed it out before it was public, then submitted it after the story went live.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, do what I do. First, I get really pissed: then I will have nothing to do with the product or service. For example, I've been boycotting Slashdot.org for months now because of my disagreement with the modderation system. So,err, there! That's how you do it!

Re:How to boycott?

[Alcilbiades]

I don't listen to music so this issue doesn't really effect me much. However, I am glad sony is getting reamed for what it did.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

You man not be a'boycott kind of guy', but your views certainly seem extreame to me:

"All mercantilistic (using government to acquire wealth) corporations are bad"

Your point of view about government seems pathological.

Are you a Marxist? Why is utilizing government to acquire wealth bad?

I am guessing that you are young person, probably still in school.

There is nothing wrong with having a business that relies on the government as long as you provide society with products and services that it needs.

If we didn't have governments contracting then we wouldn't have the majority of roads, bridges, schools.

OK, so what is bad with roads, bridges, and schools, etc.

Re:How to boycott?

[Rude Turnip]

"I won't buy anything from Menard's either."

I know they're a big, mid-western hardware store chain, similar to Home Depot. As someone located on the east coast who has only walked past a Menard's once in Illinois, what is wrong with them? The corny jingle perhaps? (Save more money at Menaaaaaards!).

Re:How to boycott?

[jedidiah]

Nevermind boycotts. These sorts of shenanigans deserve nothing short of civil litigation and criminal prosecution. People should be showing up to the local DA's office with pitchforks in hand. Nevermind silly little boycotts.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a lot easier to download something from p2p than to go out and buy it. Easy boycott.

Re:How to boycott?

[achacha]

Have to agree with you, I have added Sony to my very small list of companies not to buy things from. Yesterday I bought a camcorder from Canon even though both Canon and Sony were final runner ups, I put my 800$ on a Canon for one reason... Sony DRM is an insult to consumers and I am sure my miniscule decision will not matter but I feel good that I will not be giving money to a company that thinks it is ok to distribute a rootkit with their music CDs. And I actually checked the music CDs I was buying to make sure they were not from Sony. The only way we can have our voices heard is not by making noise but by not spending money ontheir products... when you affect their profits it hurts a lot more and while I am one person and my immediate actions will not even affect the company, I am hoping there are more people out there that believe in honest practices.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, -5 offtopic... But

I could care less if other people want to support Sony artists or Sony products.

You're trying to say one of two things.

1) It matters to you if other people want to support Sony.

OR

2) It doesn't matter to you if other people want to support Sony.

If you're trying to say #2, that it doesn't matter, then you mean that you couldn't care less. Meaning you care so little that it is impossible for you to care less than you do now. To say you could care less means that you do care, because it is possible to care less.

I think you were trying to say #2, so I thought I'd point out the flawed logic of your "could care less" statement.

Sorry, one of my pet peeves. Here's to correcting the worlds grammar one person at a time.

Re:How to boycott?

[RichMan]

http://www.sonymusic.ca/contact.html

Opps 500 Server error.

They want to hear from us. They should hear from us.

http://www.sonymusic.com/about/feedback.html

Re:How to boycott?

[VENONA]

Criminal prosecution? I hope you're not counting on a Bush administration Department of Justice. Maybe Massachusetts, or one of the other hold-out states from the antitrust case. Of course, many of those Attorneys General are probably out of office by now.

Re:How to boycott?

[enraged78]

I myself have been boycotting CD's produced by the any label associated with the RIAA for the last three years. I have not purchased any CD's for myself, or as gifts for others. I do not plan to do so until three conditions are met. First, artists are properly compensated for their music. By properly compensated, I mean more than a nickel a disc, which works out to less than that due to 'questionable' accounting practices. Second, that that RIAA ceases all current lawsuits against users who "illegally" downloaded music, and returns all moneys garnered from users who "settled" with the racketeering, um, I mean consortium. Third, that the RIAA cease to destroy both public domain, and fair use policy. In order for the public to respect the RIAA's property, the RIAA needs to stop illegally extending copyright by purchasing politicians. Oddly enough, all this purchasing power seems to stem from the 12-18 year old market. That same market does not possess the ability to vote, and I find it rather strange that all their hard earned dollars are being redirected towards buying our public officials for the highest dollar. Sony products in general will no longer be purchased by me until these and many other wrongs are rectified. Their policies are criminal, their once good hardware products are now sub-par, and their greed is insurmountable. This is no longer a free market question. This is now a corporation buying legal power to function as a makeshift mob. I for one will not stand for it by purchasing thier products.

Re:How to boycott?

[SilverspurG]

It's: Save big money at Menard's

Re:How to boycott?

[DroopyStonx]

Boycotts don't work with companies as large as Sony.

Even if you were lucky enough to gather a large amount of people, their producs are so intertwined with everyday technology that your actions won't make the slightest dent in their profits.

It might seem like a good idea on how to "stick it to the man", but in reality it's not quite so effective.

Even with all this bad publicity, they'll probably see a temporary dent in their stock, but 6 months from now all will be back to normal.

Then the PS3 comes out, yadda yadda...

Won't work.

Re:How to boycott?

[linguae]

There is nothing wrong with having a business that relies on the government as long as you provide society with products and services that it needs.

Yes, there is something wrong with businesses that need the government in order to make profit. It's wrong because it goes against the nature of free markets. Have you heard of corporate welfare? If a business cannot make the profits necessary, then it should either change its business plan or die, and not have taxpayers pay to keep it alive. There is a huge difference between governments contracting corporations in order for them to build infrastructure and schools, and governments subsidizing businesses (e.g., corporate welfare). He's talking mainly about subsidies.

Re:How to boycott?

[SoCalChris]

I quit buying Sony crap over a decade ago. I used to buy their products more often than other brands, because they used to be higher quality. Then, I had a string of high end Sony items go bad (Usually within about a month of the warranty expiring).

I had a Sony cell phone (This was when cell phones were first starting to come out, and were about the size of a brick). It was several hundred dollars. I went through 7 of them before the warranty expired, and I finally replaced it with another brand. I had a laser disc player whose drive motor kept dying. I had a boom box whose tape drive never worked right, even after sending it in for work several times. Then I had a Sony AV receiver, that one day decided not to turn on, unless you picked it up a few inches and dropped it. After that string of bad products, that Sony wouldn't stand behind, it was easy for me to stop buying their crap.

I don't actively try to dissuade people from buying Sony stuff, but if asked my opinion, I will gladly tell people about my experience with them.

Re:How to boycott?

[ballpoint]

For four years and counting I'm boycotting a certain unnamed oil major (Shell) because they didn't compensate me fully for the trouble when my car was immobilized by bad fuel. My goal is set at ten years; they will have lost three times the amount by then, and I will have gained some satisfaction.

I find it mentally very easy to stick to the boycott. Not unlike feeling a resentment for a certain kind of food that you got sick from.

Re:How to boycott?

[Fishstick]

also

If you believe a Sony Music product has a manufacturing defect, please call our Quality Management Department at 800-255-7514; 856-722-8224 in New Jersey).

Re:How to boycott?

[Dammital]

Oh, I don't know... that smug feeling you get is worth something.

Two years ago I stopped buying Belkin products after their routers started redirecting port 80 queries to their own adservers. Can't say that I miss 'em.

Re:How to boycott?

[NewWorldDan]

I boycott Best Buy because the cheapest USB cable they carry is $20. NewEgg will sell me an equivilent cable with next day air shipping for a few bucks less than that. I support a small business, and when we need new hardware, I drive past Best Buy to go to CompUSA. Not a huge improvement, but they're not gouging on cables as bad. And I tell people exactly why I won't shop at Best Buy. From me alone, they're out about 5K in sales so far all over a stupid $3 cable. Another thing you can do is when you start boycotting something, write them a letter. Often times they'll give you free stuff to not badmouth them.

As far as Sony is concerned, I don't have autorun enabled on my CD drives and I haven't encountered their rootkit, so I have no real reason to boycott them. On the other hand, I've only bought one CD in the last year, so even if I did decide to boycott them, it wouldn't amount to much.

Re:How to boycott?

[Fiver-]

It's the old man who does the commercials. He smiles with his mouth, but not his eyes.

Re:How to boycott?

[grahams]

Too bad Sony makes many CCDs for Canon cameras....

Re:How to boycott?

[jo7hs2]

You know, Sony makes the CCDs in alot of cameras and camcorders, and even Canon, who makes a great deal of their own sensors, uses Sony products. Boycotts rarely work, unless they reach a critical mass, but the cleansing action of harsh sunlight and bad publicity will not do wonders for Sony. Unfortunately, at their size, Sony will be difficult to harm economically. However, a class action lawsuit, while benefitting only the lawyers monetarily, would have the effect of putting a pinch on Sony, and make it damn clear to them they were in the wrong and their behavior would not be tolerated, assuming they have actually done anything illegal.

Re:How to boycott?

[Zathrus]

How do those who are active boycotters stick to it? Do you actively pursue telling others, or is it just a "one person, one dollar, one vote" kind of life lead?

If you actively pursue telling others you'll just annoy them and get labeled as a wacko. So it's pretty much up to you and your money. If the opportunity presents itself to discuss the topic without having to stretch for relevance (e.g. -- a friend/colleage/random stranger complains about a CD not working on their computer or something), then go for it. Otherwise keep to yourself. The only real exception here is demonstrations -- if you can get a reasonable number of people together then you don't look like quite such a loon; instead you look like a group of loons. But at least then you're in a flock.

As for boycotting Sony specifically -- first, write them a note telling them why you're boycotting and what they need to do to end your boycott. The second part is extremely important -- if you don't give them a method to regain your money, then why should they even bother? And in that vein, it has to be reasonable. I don't expect Sony to never issue non-CDs with DRM. I do expect them to never use this piece of crap again and to fire/relieve from their existing duties any managers that were involved in the approval of XCD.

Second, try to make sure you don't give them any money. If you want to be strict about it, then only punish Sony-BMG Music. That means no buying CDs from them. If you want to be more liberal then don't buy anything from any Sony division -- no CDs, no DVDs, no movies, no electronics (including PS2 and so forth), nothing whatsoever directly associated with the company. If you want to be even more liberal then don't buy anything that will funnel money to the company -- all PS2 games are licensed, so none of them. Similarly, many movies may use music that's owned by Sony, so start checking those music credits first! And if you want to be a complete whacko then avoid any thing that funnels money to them through cross-licensing, partnerships, and so forth. Given how big Sony is, if you take this route then I suggest you sit quietly in an open field and hope they break before you die of dehydration or starvation (pray for rain and small, harmless furry animals to wander nearby).

At least send the letter and try to stick to your boycott, at whatever level you choose. They've already done a lot more than I expected by recalling the defective CDs. Now they need to post a public apology (from a Japanese company that's a big deal), post a non-ActiveX method on their website to completely and utterly remove the DRM (and the decloaking junk), and appropriately punish the management involved in this cock-up. That would make me happy at least.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is utilizing government to acquire wealth bad?

Because it has to come at someone else's expense. Government really is a zero-sum game, something that's not true of markets in general.

To bring this wildly-veering thread back on-topic, a great example of mercantilism would be the DMCA. Corporations such as Sony can't compete in a fair market where consumers are informed and capable of actually making full, fair use of the products they purchase... so they lobby the US (and other) governments for laws that extend the limited monopoly of copyright into the effectively-unlimited realm of usage rights.

Re:How to boycott?

[PunkFloyd]

Here's to correcting the worlds grammar one person at a time.

Wouldn't that be the world's grammar? :)

-pf

Re:How to boycott?

[Milican]

Well, I just bought a 32" TV 2.5-hours ago at Circuit City. It was between the Sony and the JVC. Both looked good and were at similar price points. Guess which one I bought? Thats right, I bought the JVC. Thats $500 less for Sony. All because of this XCP fiasco. They better wise up and remember that they are in the business of selling music and electronics. Not treating their computers like thieves and fscking up their computers.

JOhn

Re:How to boycott?

[idontgno]

He smiles with his mouth, but not his eyes.

I've noticed this phenomenon too. Because there's no involvement with any facial muscle groups other than the lips, people have trouble interpreting the expression.

In this case, I assume folks are using cultural expectations of the behaviors of spokespuppets in TV commercials to resolve the lack of direct evidence and essentially assuming the grey-haired chap in the Menards' commercials is smiling.

But I've figured out the truth. It's not a smile, it's a predatory tooth-baring snarl.

Which is why the Menards' guy scares the bejeebus out of me. That, and how he's always going on about my nards. You leave my nards out of it, dammit.

Re:How to boycott?

[Rayin]

Thats just what we need, giving the courts even more control over our lives. In today's world, at least in America, people are all to ready to attempt to accomplish through the courts what they can't do through the legislature or on their own through such techniques as boycotting or simply speaking out. If Sony violated a law, let them be held accountable. However, I'm not so sure that they did (although, not being a lawyer, I can't say for sure). If they didn't, lets leave the courts out for once. If you wan't to make a change, do it the way democracy is supposed to be done: by contacting your elected officials and telling them that you don't like this, and they should do something about it. If that doesn't work, launch a boycott, using the internet or whatever else you can think of to get the word out.

Re:How to boycott?

[Omestes]

t. It's wrong because it goes against the nature of free markets.

So? It isn't a free market anymore?
Thus, it doesn't matter if it goes against the nature of free markets, since it isn't trying to be one. Your using a standard to compare against something not of that standard.

Also you made an implicit value judgement which you failed to evaluate. Why are free markets so good? I'm not going against it, per se, but I don't see the hidden connection. What has free markets ever done for us? It looks like most of the world, and most American sectors, are a mess because of them.

Re:How to boycott?

[JFitzsimmons]

Thanks. I feel the same way but I couldn't have explained it nearly as well as you did.

Re:How to boycott?

[JWW]

Oddly enough, all this purchasing power seems to stem from the 12-18 year old market.

Thats because the demographic groups that care walked away a long time ago.

Re:How to boycott?

[Esion Modnar]

People unhappy about a company or a product have much more of a voice

I recall that a certain popular tax preparation software (TurboTax, that's it!) got into hot water when, in the effort to curb piracy, they started mucking with the customer's boot sector, or some such. (Couple years back.) They ended up retracting their software naughtiness, and doing a profound mea culpa.

Anyhow, will these companies ever learn that the bad press from borking their customers' computers, will cost them much more than piracy ever will? Sure, they see piracy as a problem to be met with DRM, but they're losing all perspective. Their DRM hammer is leaving holes in the wall.

Good will is a commodity which is built up slowly over many years, and can be lost overnight.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Because blantant inaction and apathy are great ways to solve problems?

My guess is you actually have recommendations on how to deal with Sony on this. If not STFU and go away, your apathy make you valueless.

If you do, please state them instead of just mewling about how boycotts don't work. Negative attitudes are a dime a dozen and accomplish just as much as said dime.

Personally I feel boycotts aren't enough, I'm tired of corps not being held responsible for their actions, Unless something real is done with this (civil or criminal prosecution) we are just letting them get away with screwing us over.

Re:How to boycott?

[Billly Gates]

Free markets are truly free if they have perfect competition. We are not in a free market. That is correct. The world's oil is being processes at refineries that are owned by a tiny handfull of companies.

Why is it that I can get gas outside the US for 1/3 the price where the government owns some refinaries? Sure no one oil company owns the whole market but price gouging and the power to manipulate a whole market is monopolistic or close to it. That is not a free market.

Government monopolies which the purests hate so much include many public utilities like water, sewer, power, etc. However their answer for deregulation has hurt prices as the phone companies which were natural monopolies and regulated are now hurting us they limit supply to bring up demand. In Korea you can get fiber optics to your home for $15 a month. They love laughing at us for paying for a third of a meg for $45.

So free markets work both ways with little to no regulation by the government and also perfect competition where no vendor can hold everyone hostage.

Re:How to boycott?

[mencik]

I stopped buying from SONY quite a few years ago because of another incident. In Baltimore, there was a restaurant called "Sony's", which was owned by Sony Florendo (spelling of last name as remembered, may not be correct). SONY corporation sued Sony's for trademark infringement. Apparently they thought that its consumers were too stupid to know the difference between electronics and Fillipino food. The court agreed with SONY corp., and forced her to change the name to "Sony Florendo's" for a year, and then to "Florendo's" after that.

I figured that if SONY corp. was targeting the stupid people, then they weren't targeting me. So, I have not purchased anything made by SONY since.

Re:How to boycott?

[TheUnknownCoder]

I'm in the market for a 400 CD changer and after much research, I had decided to buy the Sony CDP-CX455. Well, that was last month and fortunately I postponed the purchase another month. And today I'm ready to go with my previous second choice from Pioneer. I was seriously considering getting my wife a Vaio laptop on her birthday, Dec 1st. I'm in between Toshiba and HP now.

Sony and the others should begin to realize that they cannot treat their customers as criminals. They depend on us, not the other way around. The same people who bursted a vain in their forehead when they read about the rootkit are the same people who go out shopping for TVs, CD-Players, computers... To tell you the truth, I was happy with Sony products up until this huge pile of steaming crap surfaced, and let me tell you, they will never get another penny from me. Never.

Re:How to boycott?

[Total_Wimp]

Boycotts usually happen to achieve a goal. What is your goal? If your goal is to get Sony to pull the CDs and send a patch then Bravo! your work is done. If it's something else then I'd start with what that goal is and work your way back.

Possible goals:

- Better patch
- Pledge to never do it again
- Give money to spyware erradication groups
- Give money to the EFF

Note that Sony alread seems pretty willing to whatever it takes to make this go away, so I'd stick to the important stuff. If you feel you can make them do something like give $100 to everyone who bought a CD then a) you'll never win and b) you, the protestor, will look like the asshole.

Remember, boycotts should happen only in extreme circumstances. If they fix the extreme stuff then all you'll have left is the trivial, and thats no reason to go boycotting.

TW

Re:How to boycott?

[Mind Booster Noori]

You don't have to boycott them, but to Sue Sony.

Re:How to boycott?

[Saphati]

Has it occured to people that Sony should be charged for writing and spreading a virus? They should be treaded like any hacker that has been cought. Take them to court, thrown in jail and fined a LOT of money. Hackers are not just nerds any more, they are corporations!

Re:How to boycott?

[Aumaden]

Boycotting Sony BMG will have the same effect as boycotting RIAA.

"Wah! Our profits aren't humungous!
Boycott?
No, there's no boycott, its them pirates!
Arr!"

Find an artist you like who is on one of Sony's labels (there are over 20 labels held by Sony BMG, so you should be able to find something). Take a few minutes to track down contact information for the artist. Now, write them and their agent a nice letter explaining how you really like their music, but are not buying their album because you don't want to risk being infected by Sony's defective copy protection. Let them yell at Sony.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

I was wondering which LCD TV to buy, this will definately help me to decide.

Re:How to boycott?

[PunkOfLinux]

If only I had mod points today. Just keep telling yourself you don't need their products. That's the best thing to do, in my opinion.

Re:How to boycott?

[briggsb]

I'd boycott especially after Sony's rootkit on their digital cameras that stops you from sharing photos.

Re:How to boycott?

[damiam]

Look at the asterisk by his name. He's a subscriber; subscribers can see stories before they're posted.

Re:How to boycott?

[thegnu]

If you actively pursue telling others you'll just annoy them and get labeled as a wacko. So it's pretty much up to you and your money. If the opportunity presents itself to discuss the topic without having to stretch for relevance (e.g. -- a friend/colleage/random stranger complains about a CD not working on their computer or something), then go for it. Otherwise keep to yourself.

I disagree a little. I, as a nerd, take it upon myself to say something when people ask me specific advice about a product. That's sort of what people expect of us. If someone asks me about laptops I say, "I like IBM and Toshiba, because the experience I have with Dell and HP shows inconsistency in product quality. Sony sometimes makes great laptops, sometimes they're terrible and unsupported and Sony doesn't care. I don't buy Sony because they put on the market a virus that invades their consumers right to privacy."

Lots of times it affects people's buying decision and appreciate being told in a non-offensive manner.

But I don't walk up to people and say, "SS-S-SSO-OO-ON-N-NY'S EVIL!!! AAAHHH!" if that's what you're talking about.

Re:How to boycott?

[poopdeville]

I don't listen to music so...

You monster!

Re:How to boycott?

[apt142]

Here, Here!! Boycotts are all fine and dandy, but I think the best way to voice dissent is to take them to court and file a large class action lawsuit that they'll never forget.

Because we need that outspoken action to sit in the minds of the decision makers at Sony. When they consider doing a DRM scheme again, I want the executives to think about the bad publicity, the outspoken public opinion and the big fat fine they paid. I want visions of lawsuit stories all over the news networks flashing through their minds.

I don't think you'd get that sort of reaction from Boycotting. Maybe, but in today's media market. I don't think so.

Sony needs a hard slap on the wrist to get their attention. Nothing short of several millions of dollars in damages and a scarred image will do that.

Re:How to boycott?

[MisterLawyer]

This DRM trojan horse issue isn't the only reason to call up the militia! Sony has been sh*tting all over its customers for years. Take their EULA, for example:

Sony's End User License Agreement requires the following things of all consumers who purchase this "content protected" music:

1. If your house gets burgled, you have to delete all your music from your laptop when you get home. That's because the EULA says that your rights to any copies terminate as soon as you no longer possess the original CD.

2. You can't keep your music on any computers at work. The EULA only gives you the right to put copies on a "personal home computer system owned by you."

3. If you move out of the country, you have to delete all your music. The EULA specifically forbids "export" outside the country where you reside.

4. You must install any and all updates, or else lose the music on your computer. The EULA immediately terminates if you fail to install any update. No more holding out on those hobble-ware downgrades masquerading as updates.

5. Sony-BMG can install and use backdoors in the copy protection software or media player to "enforce their rights" against you, at any time, without notice. And Sony-BMG disclaims any liability if this "self help" crashes your computer, exposes you to security risks, or any other harm.

6. The EULA says Sony-BMG will never be liable to you for more than $5.00. That's right, no matter what happens, you can't even get back what you paid for the CD.

7. If you file for bankruptcy, you have to delete all the music on your computer. Seriously.

8. You have no right to transfer the music on your computer, even along with the original CD.

9. Forget about using the music as a soundtrack for your latest family photo slideshow, or mash-ups, or sampling. The EULA forbids changing, altering, or make derivative works from the music on your computer.

Refer to the following for details:

• List of Affected CDs
• EULA analysis
• Rootkit analysis
• Continued rootkit analysis

(From a Brendan Ribera, Amazon Post)

Re:How to boycott?

[God'sDuck]

Boycotts don't work with companies as large as Sony.

economically true, but if your hope isn't economic but rather political -- that is, not to pressure them by the boycott itself, but rather to get one top-level executive (sony:worldwide) to notice that one mid-level executive (sony:USAmusic) has singlehandedly cost the company 0.2% of its profits and put its name in nasty news articles the world over...and to then mention that in the next board meeting when reviewing his salary and/or future employment -- then there's some hope.

Re:How to boycott?

[poot_rootbeer]

And I believe that is the problem with this rootkit. Sony didn't test it properly. If they had tested it properly and kept it within its own little world on a customer's PC, I don't think the fallout would have been so excessive.

What.

It's a rootkit.

It's intended functionality is deleterious to the consumer. Better testing might have made it better, but it could never have made it Good.

Re:How to boycott?

[wintermute740]

"And I actually checked the music CDs I was buying to make sure they were not from Sony."

I quit buying from RIAA member companies awhile back. I'll listen on the radio, but I haven't heard anything worth buying for a long time. And I station-surf through commercials :P If I do buy music, it's from one of the local unsigned artists who haven't had their sound watered down to what the RIAA wants.

As for Sony, I am done with them. My last TV was a Sony, but my current one is some German company that I can't pronounce. My Sony stereo has been abused for way too many years. I will not be replacing it with a Sony. My digital camera needs replaced. I'm thinking Canon. My notebook computers are Toshiba, and my desktops are custom-built and Sony-free. As mentioned above, I don't buy Sony-label (or RIAA-label) music. I haven't gone to the movies forever, and my (non-Sony) DVR watches TV for me, and most shows get erased unwatched. I think that about covers it... Well, except for gaming. My last console was an Atari 2600 and I don't do much PC gaming. When I do, it's usually Blizzard. So, Sony, what are you going to do to get my business back? Remove a couple of crappy CDs from store shelves? Not likely to get my business back. They're gonna hafta go through a lot of chapstick to accomplish that!

Re:How to boycott?

[fade-in]

Haven't been to $sys$Wal-Mart now for over two months, and I feel fine.

We had a little "Wal-Mart can go to Hell" rally a few months ago because our small community already
has a SuperCenter and a Sam's Club, and yet Bentonville saw fit to inflict yet another Super Center upon us.

I can't speak for most of my poor college student peers, but shopping at the local merchants hasn't zinged
my bottom-line any.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's potentially possible however that if no one buys sony CDs that the artists will then sign contracts with more friendly companies. Unfortunately, they'd be screwed till their current contract is up.

Re:How to boycott?

[T-Ranger]

And they definitly do not work at less then that critical mass, unless you tell them. Unless the GP mails Sony and tells them why he did not purchase on of their cameras, they likely wont even notice the lost sale. If they do at all, its just statistical noise...

Re:How to boycott?

[poopdeville]

In today's world, at least in America, people are all to ready to attempt to accomplish through the courts what they can't do through the legislature or on their own through such techniques as boycotting or simply speaking out. If Sony violated a law, let them be held accountable. However, I'm not so sure that they did (although, not being a lawyer, I can't say for sure). If they didn't, lets leave the courts out for once.

The people are exercising their legal rights. The courts decide if a law has been broken. So shut the fuck up, dumb ass.

Re:How to boycott?

[llbbl]

I have been boycotting the purchase of CD's since 1997. Don't forget that Sony is a member of the RIAA and we all know how much they suck ass.

Record labels and publishing companies should be eliminated. Corporations shouldn't be allowed to profit over people's creative works. People should have the tools to sell their creative works to anyone directly. Services such as book and cd printing should become just that; services that the creative author offers for people interested in their products. Less GREED more Egalitarianism!

Re:How to boycott?

[flibuste]

I had my mind set for a PS3, willing to wait next year. With this week's SONY crazy adventures, it will be a X-Box 2 instead.

Also, I have recommended to my entourage to not buy any SONY CD and given the reason, also avoid other SONY products when there is an equivalent.

It's not boycotting, it's making sure our home is safe and free of any kind of intruders.

Re:How to boycott?

[blackmonday]

Good for you. I went Laptop shopping today, and there are no Vaios on my list anymore. They've got some nice products, but they won't be getting one cent from me.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

You live quite close to Dallas, see what a simple url can tell about you? I wonder if this will get worse as more of our personal information is shared in online transactions.

Re:How to boycott?

[Yaa 101]

Bullshit, do you know how much Sony needs to earn each day to make sure they don't get eradicated?
Every cent short for them is a problem, believe me... You are overestimating Sony and underestimate their ex clients.

Re:How to boycott?

[utlemming]

Since I am running VMware under Linux, I actually am wanting to get my hands on one of these CD's and infect a cloned copy of Windows to play with this root kit. Of course I would lock that VM down so tight that it could only talk to it's self, but that's beside's the point. This is one of those times that I am really, really glad that I switched over to Linux. However, does anybody know where I get a copy of the root kit with out buying the CD?

Re:How to boycott?

[Dan Ost]

Make sure you send a polite letter or email to Sony explaining your purchase and the reasoning behind it. Let them know what they did that you are unhappy with and tell them what they need to do to win you back as a customer.

Make sure they know how much money you would have spent so that they can gauge how much their bad behavior is costing them.

Re:How to boycott?

[divisionbyzero]

I disagree. I was going to buy a PS3, but now I refuse. It's not just the rootkit issue. Sony is always trying to lock people into it's proprietary formats and maintain absolute control over content. For example, Sony claims that they support Blu-ray because it is technologically superior to HD-DVD but I bet it has more to do with the fact that it has invasive DRM that violates the right to Fair Use. I suppose the fact that they invented it doesn't hurt either, but that just makes it even worse. I could almost stand the DRM, but this is just too much. I don't trust them anymore.

The worst thing Sony ever did was get involved in creating content. It has seriously damaged their ability to innovate on the hardware side and lead them to make some seriously misguided business decisions.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good PR move by MS (XBOX) to help fix a Sony (PS3)problem

Re:How to boycott?

[johno.ie]

Bullsh!t boycotts don't work.

I've been boycotting 3 big companies for over 10 years and I can roughly measure the money it's cost them. They don't know I'm boycotting them but when I can deny them the funds to pay someone a years salary, thats a measureable amount of hurt. Of course all 3 companies are still in business, they are leaders in their field, but that doesn't mean my personal boycott has had no effect. Its a double whammy actually because 2 of those companies are food companies, and I gotta eat, so their competitors are getting my green. MS is the 3rd company and I've contributed to the FOSS community in several ways since I started boycotting them.

Also I haven't bought or rented music or DVDs since the DVD Jon debacle, because I don't like the idea of my money going to companies that will spend it on that kind of thing. I'll continue to do so, for at least 10 years.

Its like voting in elections, if you don't vote its quite likely that the same people will get elected anyway, but I believe its still worth voting.

Re:How to boycott?

[poopdeville]

It's a real shame that you've had bad experiences with them. This is one (relatively minor) reason why conglomerates are bad for the consumer. Sony owns something like five audio equipment firms, most of which are crappy. Their boutique audio firm is actually really good. But they all get a bad rap since they can't differentiate themselves. The same thing goes on in the video market.

OK, that's not exactly right. Their plain old consumer line used to be decent, but quality has slipped in the last 10 years. Basically, if your AV receiver has a useless LCD interface or other gimmicky shit that appeals to upwardly mobile young people, you're gonna get reamed. Their lines get progressively better until you hit the Broadcast line of equipment, and finally their Boutique line. But you do pay a premium since these things are produced on a much smaller scale (and with better components)

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Of course all 3 companies are still in business, they are leaders in their field.

Exactly. No effect other than personal "fuck you", which doesn't solve the problem.

Re:How to boycott?

[Drachemorder]

Interesting. I wasn't aware until now that bbspot.com was an Onion knock-off.

Re:How to boycott?

[PhoenixPath]

That's it. The RIAA is gonna take a chapter from the BSA and sue your ass for depriving them of your income.

You bastard!

Re:How to boycott?

[DroopyStonx]

*YOU* aren't going to buy a PS3.

There are millions of others who will.

They're also in many markets besides video games, such as movies, cell phones, etc. that your friends and family purchase.

Your decision to not buy a PS3 fulfills personal relief, but has no effect whatsoever in the overall problem of the company.

That's my point.

Re:How to boycott?

[Moofie]

"Vote with your dollars."

I don't have enough of them to matter.

Re:How to boycott?

[Jaysyn]

A co-worker/friend of mine just bought & returned a Sony "Network Walkman" when he found out he couldn't drag & drop MP3s onto it without their crappy software.

Jaysyn

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

the one part of their cameras that sucks

Re:How to boycott?

[shotfeel]

It's: Spend big money at Menard's

Or is should be if you believe in Truth In Advertiseing. Or maybe its just me and places like Menard's, Home Depot. Lowe's...

Re:How to boycott?

[Seanasy]

To me, this isn't even an issue for boycotting. When a company makes a product that is shoddy or defective or poorly supported, you just don't buy it. It's common sense, really. Boycotting is for political issues. While, you can go so far as to draw political implications from Sony's DRM shenanigans, you don't have to. If I was trying to convince someone not to buy Sony, I'd start with, "dude that CD will totally f--k up your computer."

Now, with a big company like Sony, you can get into issues like, "do I not buy a PS3 because Sony CDs are spying on me?" I'd be willing to bet that the people working in the Playstation, computer and TV divisions at Sony are calling for the heads of the music division managers who are giving their products a bad name.

Personally, I don't buy major label music anyway. Hell, I rarely buy any CDs anymore. But if I'm in the market for a game console or TV, I'm more likely to judge Sony's products based on their specs, on reviews and on my experience with my Trinitron monitor and Handycam. Now, if Sony was caught selling weapons to terrorists or destroying a rain forest, I'd boycott. But one shoddy product from one division of a huge company won't make write them off completely.

I would like to see some upper-level management fire for this, though.

Re:How to boycott?

[modecx]

They also at least some LCD screens on Canon products. I know my 20D has one, I'd guess most/other models do also. That's kinda' creepy, I hate Sony but I like Canon. It's sorta' like being an anti-semetic Jew. Damnit!

Re:How to boycott?

[wflor421]

Its easy to boycott.I have doing it for years to Exxon gas because of not doing the proper things after the spill in Alaska.Just go across the street,its cheaper there anyway.I will not buy anthing from Sony again or BMG for that matter.Just buy your cd,s from half.com (there cheaper there and the money goes to the private seller)or for refreshing new music try cdbaby.com.Its a killer site.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

boycotts don't work with companies as large as Sony.

That may be true, but it keeps you from buying overpriced sony crap. Show me a sony product, and 99% of the time there's something better and cheaper widely available. While it might not hold for PS2 since only sony makes PS2s, it does hold for stereo equipment, phones, computers, etc.

Re:How to boycott?

[johno.ie]

Erm dude, I really don't understand how you can believe its had no effect. The bigger the company the more of an effect your boycott can have on them, in absolute terms anyway. In relative terms it appears smaller, but its still significant. I hate repeating myself, but over a number of years (or a lifetime) anyone can hit large multinationals like Sony for thousands of $CURRENCY. The thousands are still like 1/millionth of their market cap, but thats not the point its still thousands. Consider this, Sony are ordered to give every customer that bought 1 of those CDs $1000. Do you think that would have an effect? Sure it would, and thats the point I'm making.

Apathetic people like you are part of the problem mate. For instance, if 100 lazy Florida Democrats had gotten off there fat arses 5 years ago and voted for Gore, 100,000 Iraqis wouldn't be orphans today. Of course I can't make 100 people do anything, I only have control over 1 life, that's mine and I'll do what I want with it. Becoming as apathetic as everyone else isn't gonna help at all.

Maybe you work for Sony and your post was part of their damage recovery strategy. ;)

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Holy crap - you've narrowed him down from about 300 million people in the US down to about 3 million. Run for the hills. No really, get out of here.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Someone should create a website like 'didnotbuysony' or something so people can go there, add the details of what they didn't buy (and why), and then the site emails Sony with the details.

Seems like something some enterprising /.er should be able to knock up in a few hours!

Re:How to boycott?

[jsveiga]

I don't need a W800i. I don't need a W800i. It's from the evil Sony and uses their own memory card standard. I don't need a W800i bundled with a 512MB proprietary MemoryStick Duo memory card. I don't need a W800i bundled with a 512MB memory card and a 2MPx camera. I don't need it.

DANG IT'S NOT WORKING!!! HELP!

Re:How to boycott?

[springbox]

Even with all this bad publicity, they'll probably see a temporary dent in their stock, but 6 months from now all will be back to normal.

Then the PS3 comes out, yadda yadda...

Won't work.

Well, not with that attitude, mister!

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

For God's sake, don't buy the HP, they install oodles of spyware on them before you get them, to save you the trouble of infecting yourself.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonym1ty]

Always check the hinges on laptops before you buy them... then ask yourself WILL I BREAK THIS?

Re:How to boycott?

[Sgt Pinback]

I need some help to come up with a rationalization how I can still justify buying Seinfeld season 5 once it comes out. Anyone?

Re:How to boycott?

[16K Ram Pack]

I'm boycotting Sony. To be honest, it's not that hard now.

Where once they made products that ruled, and I'd have had a moral dilemna over it, I'll gladly go with the competition now.

My DVD recorder that I'm planning on getting in the next few months won't be a Sony.

I don't agree about your view with regards to bad testing. My view instead is that Sony crossed a moral line, not a quality one.

Re:How to boycott?

[rtb61]

Not to be too cynical but how long has this particular nasty product been out there. It just seems to have received public exposure at just the right time in the xbox vs playstation wars. Me thinks the management at Sony BMG has a lot of explaining to do to satisfy the management at Sony Electronics (Who are they working for Microsoft or Sony?).

Both companies have much the same in common, marketing far out weighs product quality. The war of the lowest common denominator. Kind of appropriate that this kinf of product runs on windows, microsoft DRM a pre-installed "rootkit" they can never be removed (are microsoft going to enable the average customer to remove it because it is bad or because Sony BMG did not pay the required licence fee).

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Shine a powerful laser in each eyeball until you no longer feel the need to own a camera.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

But collectively, those dollars will add up.

"What you do may be totally insignificant, but it is very important that you do it."

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Pirate Sony records. Apparently every track you download loses Sony $150,000 in profits, even if you wouldn't have bought it anyway, so if the RIAA's logic is correct, you can probably bankrupt Sony in a matter of hours just by moving one MP3 back and forward between two computers!

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll be doing the same thing. The mega corporations do not own us and if I can doing anything, they never will have the chance. Take action through your purchasing power.

Re:How to boycott?

[JahToasted]

I boycott quite a few different companies, If I really think about. But most of the time I don't think about it. When I'm at the mall (as seldom as that is, I prefer to support the downtown areas), when I see Walmart I just keep walking and don't give it a second thought. When I'm buying sneakers I automatically ignore the ones with the nike swish on it. I don't think I'm denying myself something, since its not even an option for me to buy it. Boycotted products and items I simply don't want get the same amount of thought from me.

I guess it depends on how much of a consumer you are. To me, as long as I have three solid meals, a warm house and a comfortable bed, I'm good. Everything beyond that is a luxury and a frivolous use of money. So its no problem saving my money for neccessities instead of buying luxuries from a bad company.

Re:How to boycott?

[df.cowan]

I guess you're not to big of a fan of eating huh? Or natural fiber clothing? Or anything else produced by agriculture? The entire agricultural industry is supported by government subsidies, without them very few farmers or ranchers would be profitable.

Re:How to boycott?

[Trogre]

Some of us are already boycotting the entire RIAA.

Do you really think this is going to stop at Sony BGM?

Re:How to boycott?

[tedshultz]

good point. here is the list: http://www.idiotabroad.com/?p=58

Re:How to boycott?

[awol]

I have been boycotting DVD for the past three years or so. I found myself objecting to the way the DVD industry was screwing with me and the direction that the screwing was heading (regional encoding, DeCSS, obscene pricing), so I decided that if I was going to complain about the treatment then I probably shouldn't be funding them via the very means in question. So I stopped buying them. In answer to your question about "one person, one dollar, one vote" versus "telling others", I think it is both I recognise that I can realistically do no momre than vote with my one dollar but I am more than happy to tell people why I don't DVD anymore.

Re:How to boycott?

[Koiu Lpoi]

Member of DMusic by any chance? If not, it's a great resource for non-RIAA music. And, there's a heated debate on the front page about this very rootkit.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

You may not realize it but, Exxon probably provides the gas to the station across the street. The "independent" stations still buy their gas from the big boys. I admire you for sticking to your convictions, but big oil is smarter than you. Thanks for playing.

Re:How to boycott?

[R3d M3rcury]

"As for boycotting Sony specifically -- first, write them a note telling them why you're boycotting and what they need to do to end your boycott."

Dear Sony,

I am boycotting all Sony products until the following demands have been met.

1. Give me a tool to remove the spyware from my system.
2. Remove all infected CDs from stores.
3. Replace all infected CDs that have been purchased with uninfected CDs free of charge.
4. A public apology and a promise to never use DRM on CDs again.
5. Susie Suh. In a string bikini. At my place. Tonight.
6. I'm having a little get-together this weekend and it would be great if Santana could be there and play a few songs.
7. Three words: Dump Michael Bolton.
8. One...million...dollars.

Thank you for your time.

Re:How to boycott?

[Kris_J]

Boycotting Sony is effectively impossible. However, I'm going to do everything short of never buying a DVD again.

Re:How to boycott?

[mrchaotica]

How's about this for a goal: Fire, without severance pay or any other compensation, the executives responsible.

Re:How to boycott?

[AgentPhunk]

pray for rain and small, harmless furry animals to wander nearby

You mean John Cleese's lemmings?

Re:How to boycott?

[AgentPhunk]

That might mean being 'outed' that you like Celine Dion. Thats a risk I'm just not ready to take.

Re:How to boycott?

[Foobar of Borg]

What has free markets ever done for us?

The aquaduct?

Re:How to boycott?

[Lehk228]

Sony makes components for lots of companies, however it is nikon who uses sony CCD's Canon rolls their own for DSLR's.

Re:How to boycott?

[blacksilver]

Its a shame that they are dragging the feet to resolve the issue. They didn't expect the outcry to be that great. Starting with a defiant rebuttal, last week a senior SonyBMG executive Thomas Hesse, the president of SonyBMG's global digital business division, said in a radio interview: 'Most people don't even know what a rootkit is so why should they care about it?' Either he is the one who does not understand the implication(technical/security) of a rootkit or he is mastermind of this idea. Eitherway, I can imagine how he is going to face the music not only from the media but also from Sony's management.

Re:How to boycott?

[ShadeEagle]

But we subscribers can't comment till the story is posted "for real".

Considering the available facts, I betcha he typed it in Notepad and waited for "the mysterious future" to become "now".

Re:How to boycott?

[Travoltus]

"That is the free market at work. People unhappy about a company or a product have much more of a voice with the web being so readily available. The more the Internet allows billions of citizens to align on different issues, the more we'll see that a free market "democracy" is better than a democracy built around the use of force."

The problem is that some of the most egregious violations of freedom are protected by apathy.

For instance, the fact that your personal information is for sale to the highest bidding criminal OVERSEAS...

Re:How to boycott?

[Ernesto5]

Now they need to post a public apology (from a Japanese company that's a big deal)

Oh I liked this one. My former ninjutsu sensei told us how Japanese people were one of the few peoples in history where in their creation myth, the japanese people were directly descended from the gods (ref: here and wiki's. Keep in mind, this isn't like the Judeo-Christian Creation, where God had a hand in it, but Man was distinctively a different being from God.

And you wonder how Japanese society remain so homogeneous and elitist when they're embedded in a culture that tells them they're Gods and God knows what those smelly, hairy American barbarians are. Publicly apologize? `But we're perfect!'

Instead, I liked the Chinese version of the Japanese creation myth that my sensei told us in class. In that version, the Chinese emperor sent some of his servants to go and pick mushrooms for dinner. Then never came back to China, but they ended up becoming the Japanese.

Re:How to boycott?

[CrystalFalcon]

If you actively pursue telling others you'll just annoy them and get labeled as a wacko.

Not necessarily.

I'm the IT manager at the company I work at. Removing Sony from the list of approved vendors was a pretty easy thing to do, and even easier to explain to my boss why it was for the best of the company and necessary for the security of our network, equipment, and communications.

Re:How to boycott?

[Mister Transistor]

It's because he's on TV - it's the natural propensity of talking heads to (de)evolve into plastic.

It's a sort of metamorphosis into an animation before your very eyes, referred to medically as "Clutch Cargo's Syndrome".

I HATE that Guy!

Re:How to boycott?

[modecx]

Yeah, I thought Canon made their own CCDs. At least they're not at Sony's mercy.

Here's a little bit about the sony LCD though: this post at dpreview I happened upon this after I fudged up the LCD cover on my 20D. It's inexpensive and easy to fix, and there's a little sony logo just under the Canon logo. I should've taken a picture! There's probably more parts on the camera that were sourced than I'd ever care to know. But it's interesting anyway.

Re:How to boycott?

[DroopyStonx]

Awww, someone didn't like what I had to say! /cry

Don't get pissed off because you thought your lil boycott plan would work ;)

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Good will is a commodity which is built up slowly over many years, and can be lost overnight.

yeah, but i have this lingering fear that it wont matter in like a year. with as huge as sony is, i just have this suspicion that this will create a stink for maybe a few months, then everything will slowly go back to normal. there will be a handful of people who will stick to their boycotts, but most folks will forget that sony is evil and will go back to buying their stuff.

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

"My former ninjutsu sensei told us...."

Hehe, RBWI? "Hayesian Bujinkan?"

"And you wonder how Japanese society remain so homogeneous and elitist when they're embedded in a culture that tells them they're Gods and God knows what those smelly, hairy American barbarians are. Publicly apologize? `But we're perfect!'"

You are taking your teacher's humility (assuming your teacher actually was Japanese, meaning you WEREN'T an RBWI student :) far too seriously. You are also not giving modern Japanese enough credit. (I'm secretly hoping that you're going to come back with, "No no no, my Japanese wife says....")

"Instead, I liked the Chinese version of the Japanese creation myth that my sensei told us in class. In that version, the Chinese emperor sent some of his servants to go and pick mushrooms for dinner. Then never came back to China, but they ended up becoming the Japanese."

It would be more credible if the majority of Japanese were even descended from Chinese. Japanese are mostly descended from Mongols and Hans (by way of Korea) and Malays who traded and intermixed on the islands.

Re:How to boycott?

[Gleng]

Another way to boycott a recording company while being able to listen to the music, and staying legal, is to buy CDs second hand. This also works with movies. At least the labels don't get any of your money, and it's cheaper than new!

Re:How to boycott?

[pv2b]

Glad to hear I'm not the only one that has forgotten about Belkin's shenanigans.

I've bought a fair deal of wireless network equipment for work, and I might actually have considered Belkin's stuff for some of the purchases if I weren't boycotting them.

I also have been reluctant to buy Sony in the past, and will avoid Sony for most stuff, except for mobile phones. Sony Ericsson simply makes the best mobile phones on the market currently, and besides the fact that they use Memory Stick, I don't really have any complaints about them. (Not to mention the misplaced sense of national pride of buying Ericsson, being from Sweden and all.)

Re:How to boycott?

[das3cr]

It's been almost 5 years since I have purchased or rented a music cd or movie vhs/dvd. Other than a few new computer systems I haven't purchased a cd player or radio in about seven years now.

About once a month I get on a soap box somewhere and let people know I feel the RIAA/MPAA are evil. Yes, this includes writing my state reps.

Re:How to boycott?

[KlausBreuer]

But I didn't read the EULA. I simply moved the mouse about, and my cat clicked the left button. Probably by accident.

So, prove that the EULA applies to me - I'd never have signed it.

Re:How to boycott?

[quarkscat]

VOTE WITH YOUR DOLLARS!

And since Sony is not only a media company, but also a movie company, and a hardware company, I say boycott ALL SONY PRODUCTS. Boycotting Sony/BMG will have very little effect upon Sony management, because only money speaks loud enough for them to hear consumers displeasure. A large enough impact upon Sony's bottom line will also send a similar message to the rest of the RIAA and MPAA membership.

It is time for the much abused consumers to speak out against heavy handed corporate interests, including DRM. Fuck 'em!

Re:How to boycott?

[Milican]

Good observation. I noticed that my zip was included in the URL before I posted, but figured I would leave it in there because it didn't include any specific personal information and it added a degee of authenticity to the URL. BTW, I didn't purchase the TV online. I only used it to see which stores in the area had the TV.

JOhn

Re:How to boycott?

[grahams]

Actually, Canon also uses Sony CCDs (perhaps not in all their lines, but clearly in some):

http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/552292/
http://www.letsgodigital.org/en/news/articles/stor y_4732.html

Re:How to boycott?

[beejhuff]

Bravo!

Although I applaud all efforts to raise awareness of the issue through our personal lives / interactions with people, if we really want to effect change we need to also act where we can have the largest concerted impact - in our professional jobs / roles. I beleive the truth of the matter is that this issue has a HUGE potential for widespread business impact if your company permits users to listen to music on their company computers (my firm does). Exert your influence in any way you can by rationally explaining the imapact of this software and plan for problem mitigation. If your users are anything like ours, you've probably already got a system or two infected on your network with this so-called 'software.'

From a business perspective, there is usually only one way ANY company can effectively learn about the seriousness of an issue: Revenue Risk. Either a competitor gets publicly impacted and management gets worried they will be also or perhaps the company directly starts to lose revenue or face government fines. I anticipate that getting consumers to change purchasing habits may take some time, but should Sony start being removed from authorized vendor agreements because of the actions of Sony BMG, I am fairly confident the parent group will take notice.

Re:How to boycott?

[fitteschleiker]

Are You INSANE!?!!

damn that "joystick" thingo, DAMN IT TO HELL!!!!!!!!!!!!

Re:How to boycott?

[pv2b]

I find a little insanity helps me from becoming catastrophically dull, but I find that the K750i has many redeeming qualities that make it worthwhile:

- A comparatively good Bluetooth implementation (at least compared to the Siemens S65 I had before) that you can actually leave on permanently without it running the battery flat in less than a day.

- A nice and quick interface for the phone book. (Up-down to choose a person, left-right to choose which number to dial.)

- A camera that sucks considerably less than most mobile phone cameras. This has actually, surprisingly been more useful than I thought when I got the phone. I've gotten into the habit of taking a picture of stuff rather than writing stuff down. Less error-prone too. ... but the one killer feature:

- BUILT-IN FLASHLIGHT! I can't count the number of times this feature has been very handy.

Flashlight trumps slightly annoying joystick, imo. :-)

Re:How to boycott?

[bar-agent]

Huh. Susie Suh don't look like a country singer, but damn me if she ain't one!

Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Find an artist you like who is on one of Sony's labels (there are over 20 labels held by Sony BMG, so you should be able to find something). Take a few minutes to track down contact information for the artist. Now, write them and their agent a nice letter explaining how you really like their music, but are not buying their album because you don't want to risk being infected by Sony's defective copy protection. Let them yell at Sony.

Actually, they'll yell at their agents and managers, who will in turn do nothing. No artists ever actually get to chat with the bigwigs of Sony.

Re:How to boycott?

[Alsee]

I hear Sony is hiring. Then you'll have decent money not buy from them with. That'll show 'em!

-

Re:How to boycott?

[Alsee]

I have bad news for you. There was a story here on Slashdot a while ago about Canon encrypting some of the output in their digital camera formats, and of course how that then made it illegal under the DMCA for any image editing software to read that encrypted data except by signing a contract and getting Canon's permission and explusively using Canon's software to do it. No permitted open source support for reading the format, and no unapproved application support in general.

If I recall it was only an issue on their high end professional cameras, so it probably doesn't affect the camera you bought, but it was still a nasty enough abuse to get Canon onto my shitlist.

Trying to boycott evil abusive companies is a real bitch when as often as not the competitor you attempt to turn to winds up being bad too. Hell, trying to boycott Trusted Computing is becoming virtually impossible. You'd be hard pressed to find any company in the computer industry that isn't already involved in Trusted Computing in one way or another, and it is expected to be an almost universal standard in about a year or year-and-a-half. About the best you can do is go with computer companies that have been reluctant in getting dragged into Trusted Computing.

-

fp i hate sony

[Anonymous Coward]

sony should die fp

Re:fp i hate sony

[rovingeyes]

you should have tried $sys$fp. Then see if the moderators would have caught you. Oh well...

Ouch

[Anonymous Coward]

To have Microsoft call you on your bad business practices...

Re:Ouch

[blincoln]

To have Microsoft call you on your bad business practices...

Yes, how wonderful and convenient that a benevolent company like Microsoft has bravely stepped up to remove the software of one of their biggest competitors from the computers of the helpless computer-using public.

Clearly the only proper course of action is to support this generous and gentle giant of the technology world by purchasing their new gaming console - coincidentally just released - and as many games and accessories for it as possible.

Re:Ouch

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, who knew I would find another person who wears a tin foil hate on /.?

Re:Ouch

[emjoi_gently]

The MS Malware Removal software also works quietly under the hood of your computer. You don't quite know what it is doing either.

It's actually a bit scarey that major corporations are playing political games with dlls on my PC without me even seeing them.

And their mp3 player sucks too!

[ReeferCpe]

:D

Re:And their mp3 player sucks too!

[game kid]

Wait, their players actually play those (save from very recently)?

Wow this will be quite expensive!

[Lucia_Inverse]

this will cost them a bundle as they will have to junk all thoes discs, make new masters etc, and this will be them admiting wrong doing as well making it easier for a lawsuit.

Re:Wow this will be quite expensive!

[AKAImBatman]

Sounds like Sony needs to Get Right with the Man. :-P

Re:Wow this will be quite expensive!

[Tango42]

Easier to win the lawsuit, maybe, but harder to get a meaningful punishment. A judge is likely to reduce any punishment because they've seen the error of their ways and tried to correct the issue.

Re:Wow this will be quite expensive!

[DS_User]

"this will cost them a bundle as they will have to junk all thoes discs, make new masters etc, and this will be them admiting wrong doing" HMMMM Where have we seen this before: http://www.snopes.com/business/market/atari.asp However I think Atari's games had better music.

Re:Wow this will be quite expensive!

[Dasein]

this will be them admiting wrong doing as well making it easier for a lawsuit.

Generally inadmissible in court. You see if an elevator company has a bunch of elevators fall then we, as a society, don't want to put in place rules that would mean that fixing the flaw immediately would be admissible as a confession in a court of law. To do so, it would, in effect, be putting the public at risk. So, generally the rules of evidence say that mitigating, repairing, and offers to settle are inadmissible to prove culpability.

So, attempts to prevent future harm are generally not admissible in court.

Not to worry

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure they'll find some sort of way to cheer themselves up...

LGPL and/or GPL?

[edubarr]

What about the LGPL and GPL issues?
Anyone has any news on that?

Re:LGPL and/or GPL?

[LilWolf]

A bit of info about can be found here.

http://www.the-interweb.com/serendipity/index.php? /archives/52-Is-Sony-in-violation-of-the-LGPL-Part -II.html

Coral Cache

[__aaitqo8496]

Just in case...

http://www.doxpara.com.nyud.net:8090/planetsony_us a.JPG

PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Rude Turnip]

I'd like to thank the fine folks at Sony for helping me decide which next-generation gaming console to buy (hint: It doesn't begin with the letter "P" or end in a "3"). It's a sad state of affairs when Microsoft has to come to the rescue and un-fsck your security blunders.

Thank god for Sony

[sedyn]

I'm all in favour of letting the average person know the truth behind what content distributors are willing to do to protect "their" property.

Let us hope that people find out about DRMs before they saturate the market any further.

Re:Thank god for Sony

[olddotter]

I agree, in the grand scheme this might be a good thing.

And if for nothing else this has been very funny to watch the problems snow ball for Sony.

Re:Thank god for Sony

[01101101]

And if for nothing else this has been very funny to watch the problems snow ball for Sony.

And it has made up for the lack of SCO news lately. I was getting pretty bored there.

Re:Thank god for Sony

[Iriel]

Actually, this case should be far from over, and I'm not talking about Sony either. Consider this:

(Forgive for forgetting the name but...) Someone had to discover the rootkit for us to know about it --obvious.
He had to violate the EULA and DMCA to do, thus violating the user agreement and breaking a law --insidious.

I couldn't care less less about a user agreement to be screwed becoming null and void, but the fact that someone had to technically break the law to discover a potentially serious problem deserves examination. When a company can twist the law to keep people from discovering their nefarious deeds, we need to dust off the books and revise how these laws can be implemented. I can actually think of it as 'lucky' that this problem was serious enough to prevent Sony from playing the legal card against our knight in UV reactive acrylic liquid cooled armor ;)

Re:Thank god for Sony

[Surt]

Interestingly, this is exactly what I would have done if I were a subversive anti-DRM engineer working at SONY. Make a DRM system with such onerous consequences for anyone who touches it that there was sure to be a significant public backlash. It makes me wonder just how much of a 'mistake' was involved here.

Wow...

[Premo_Maggot]

the virus writers have done something good for us!

I sincerely apologize for this...

[LithiumX]

The DRM WANTS to be free!

Re:I sincerely apologize for this...

[Anonymous Coward]

The irony is killing me.

bare minimum

[Anonymous Coward]

At the very minimum, they should have to pay the 5$ limited liability to everyone who bought the CD's with it on.

That way they lose at least 10 mil for being stupid

Now look at the mess you're in, Sony.

[apflwr]

In the end it probably would have been cheaper and much less hassle to just let us download the damn mp3s.

Re:Now look at the mess you're in, Sony.

[alphax45]

Well now that they see this, maybe others will follow suit and NOT do this kind of crap to us anymore. On the other hand, they may not be as public about it next time and just try to pay off whoever finds the "bug" in the DRM software. Just my 2 cents.

Good PR for Microsoft

[Dark Paladin]

I'm on the "No buying Sony" bandwagon right now, though they've almost completed my requirements (pull the Rootkit filled CD's is the first, the second is the publicly promise that they will not do it again).

Because of this, odds are that MS will actually get some of my business. I'm not in the "I'm in line for a Xbox 360" (well, save to buy one and resell it on eBay sicne I'm evil), but lately I've been renting more Gamecube and Xbox games. I'm preparing to sell my PSP partially when there aren't any games I care about, and partially to not support Sony until they stop their DRM issues.

So, for MS to call out "Oh, we're going to help you be secure!" is a good move for them, especially with the upcoming PS3 versus Xbox 360 fight looming. Will it make a difference? Maybe - but as the old line says, "There's no such thing as bad press".

Well, unless you're Sony.

Of course, this is all just my opinion. I could be wrong.

Re:Good PR for Microsoft

[klubar]

What's interesting is that the company that developed the software is keeping "mum". If you check out their web site they have nothing to say and from the reports, phone calls are answered by the "office manager" who has no comments. Based on the reports of buggy code, I'd be doubtful of their "ability to code their way out of a paper bag". What I haven't heard is Sony or any other clients of first4internet to publically drop them. Other clients (according to first4internet related company) include MessageLabs, Vigil, Renaissance, SurfControl, Telcotec, Sohphos.

FYI, ./ reported the story on December 18, 2004. See slashdot web page

Re:Good PR for Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, reward MS for building an OS that readily succumbs to this treachery in the first place.

Autorun is evil.

Re:Good PR for Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

How's this good for Microsoft? It's THEIR OS that has this little problem that ALLOWED the rootkit to be installed in the first place. This is good for NEITHER Sony NOR Microsoft.

Re:Good PR for Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you realise that Microsoft plan to ship Windows Vista with a pre-installed rootkit called 'Trusted Computing Platform'?

Re:Good PR for Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Because of this, odds are that MS will actually get some of my business.

So your going to give your money to a convicted criminal vs one who hasn't had thier day in court? You may need to check your logic circuits.

The natives are restless..

[grub]

Read the comments for this protected disc by Van Zant on the Sony label.
,br>OUCH.

Re:The natives are restless..

[msormune]

I specially liked the quote containing lyrics to a Twisted Sister song "We're not gonna take it". Okay people, get back to your American Idol reruns, nothing to see here.

Re:The natives are restless..

[Anonymous Coward]

While you're there, take the time to fill in the complaint form at the bottom notifying Amazon this CD-ROM they're selling contains illegally copied software (LAME).

Re:The natives are restless..

[hattig]

Ouch indeed. I imagine it is the same for all the other Sony $sys$rootkit DRM CDs?

Yeah, I imagine that with the amount of negative feedback all over Sony had no choice but to stop this scheme. Even so Sony are on a one year 'no purchase' ban personally, it may be extended depending on future behaviour.

Re:The natives are restless..

[Fatal Darkness]

I just filled out their suggestion form: Product offered violates Amazon.com's policy on items that can be listed for sale.

Items that infringe upon an individual's privacy. Amazon.com holds personal privacy in the highest regard. Therefore, items that infringe upon, or have potential to infringe upon, an individual's privacy are prohibited.

Re:The natives are restless..

[PagosaSam]

I just sent this comment to Amazon...

This product violates Amazon.com's policies.

"Items that infringe upon an individual's privacy. Amazon.com holds personal privacy in the highest regard. Therefore, items that infringe upon, or have potential to infringe upon, an individual's privacy are prohibited. Additionally, the sale of marketing lists (bulk e-mail lists, direct-mail marketing lists, etc.) is prohibited."

Sony'd DRM rootkit violates my privacy by "phoning home" to report on my computer's usage. These products should be banned from further sale, imediately!

Re:The natives are restless..

[surfdaddy]

I wonder how these bands whose CD-like disks have the Sony DRM on them are feeling right about now? I would be feeling so screwed by Sony. My big chance at my music CD to make the big bucks, and not only does the RIAA skim a ton of my money, but then Sony does this and the market for my disk tanks.

Re:The natives are restless..

[Anonymous Coward]

but does it phone home?

You wouldn't know from their stock price (eom)

[Mateo_LeFou]

eom

Hey Dan

[ryanr]

What did you do to check? Are you checking DNS Cache status, or are you scanning over RPC for the named pipe it installs?

Re:Hey Dan

[Anonymous Coward]

RTFA. DNS cache is what he said.

Re:Hey Dan

[ryanr]

Yup, I thought I had finished reading the article, but I had gotten distracted and didn't read that far. My fault.

I was hoping that Dan had done some remote scanning. When I looked at the rootkit, I noticed that it registered a named pipe, which ought to be remotely reachable, and probably exploitable.

I'm really torn

[$RANDOMLUSER]

Part of me wants to boycott Sont forever, and part of me wants to thank them for being so stupid, inept and evil that they've probably permanently discredited DRM. Kind of reminds me of Lotus and copy protection from years back.

Re:I'm really torn

[Ironsides]

Part of me wants to boycott Sont forever, and part of me wants to thank them for being so stupid, inept and evil that they've probably permanently discredited DRM.

I was thinking the same thing. Now only time will tell if there will be a significant enough backlash to eliminate DRM systems like this. Unfortunately, I don't see this causing a significant enough backlash to eliminate DRM for good. What might do that is the DRM system that lets you play games/movies only on the first player that the disk is played in.

Re:I'm really torn

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd choose to have my cake and eat it too.

Hey...

[RonaldReagan]

I just want to know how *I* can get in on the class action lawsuit.

Re:Hey...

[Irish_Samurai]

First, rise from the dead.

Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[jenkin sear]

Looks like Sony crossed the threshold from nuisance to crime. While DOJ is almost certainly going to soft-pedal this, a savvy attorney general with political ambitions from a state unencumbered by Hollywood and the RIAA could probably ride this case into the governor's office....

"Paging Eliot Spitzer, Paging Eliot Spitzer, Mr. Spitzer white courtesy phone..."

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[the eric conspiracy]

"Paging Eliot Spitzer, Paging Eliot Spitzer, Mr. Spitzer white courtesy phone..."

To me the biggest surprise in this saga is that he hasn't been all over this.

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[jenkin sear]

Especially since he's already successfully sued the RIAA for "lost" royalties, and served notice (and got a settlement) from Sony BMG on payola...

Might be an interesting idea for a New York resident to make a phone call to his office...

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[Anonymous Coward]

It might be that case that nobody has informed him of this, not everyone reads the wonderful news source that is slashdot. :)

Perhaps it might be good to ask him if he knows about this insanity, and see if he plans to do anything about it after reading up on the details?

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[frankie]

Why would he do that? There's no need any more. He's already established his credentials as a Bold Leader(tm) who isn't afraid to take on Special Interests(tm) and protect the Little Guy(tm). Any further mega-cases would only waste time that he would rather spend campaigning. </cynical>

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[DysenteryInTheRanks]

Any further mega-cases would only waste time that he would rather spend campaigning. /cynical

Frankly, I am glad there are at least _some_ incentives to reward people like Elliot Spitzer who try and force corporations to comply with the law -- because there are HUGE financial incentives for the corporations to flaut the law.

Maybe you'd like to explain how society should hold corporations in check after it throws away any recognition, title (politics) or money (lawsuits) awarded to those who do so. It seems to me that we should not leave corporate money as the sole remaining incentive or insist that public advocates live like monks.

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[Ron Goodman]

I'm not all that surprised. He rolled over and signed off on the Microsoft agreement, and now he's planning on a run for governor.

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[Kenrod]

Spitzer's usual tactic is to threaten corporations with civil or criminal suits, then agree to drop/reduce charges if the corporation will pay large fines/reparations, admit some form of wrongdoing, and/or make some significant public contribution. Guilty or not, most corporations will settle out of court rather than suffer the bad publicity, spend millions on lawyers in court, and possibly be found guilty anyway by a jury that has to weigh enormously complex law vs a big Evil Corporation.

It's very telling that when Spitzer does get someone in court, he usually loses. He is much less interested in correctly prosecuting the law than in generating PR for himself.

If Spitzer were truly interested in making corporations pay, he would refuse to settle the big cases, drag companies into court, and really make them pay (and establish good legal precedent so other corporations would shape up).

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[DysenteryInTheRanks]

Guilty or not, most corporations will settle out of court rather than suffer the bad publicity, spend millions on lawyers in court, and possibly be found guilty anyway by a jury that has to weigh enormously complex law vs a big Evil Corporation.

Bullshit. Any major corporation has more time and money than a public prosecutor's office.

Pardon me for not sharing your sympathy for fradulent mutual fund operators and record companies trying to skirt paying royalties, to name but two cases. Nor do I buy the argument that most voters can understand 90 percent of his cases, and thus that they have some awesome PR value. He digs into little nooks and crannies of the financial system that most voters will never bother to understand. As someone who pays attention to these areas, and works in close proximity and inside many of them, I am confident that vast majority of Spitzer's allegations are true.

Re:Looks like they crossed the threshold...

[the eric conspiracy]

spend millions on lawyers in court, and possibly be found guilty anyway by a jury that has to weigh enormously complex law vs a big Evil Corporation.

The real punishment of the company occurs in the stock market which hates any tint of scandal whatsoever.

He is much less interested in correctly prosecuting the law than in generating PR for himself.

All politicians are trying to generate publicity for themselves. The question is how do they do it; are they doing something that affects things in a positve manner.

The problem I have with Spitzer as governer is how does what he is doing as AG translate to that stage?

Nooooo!

[Anonymous Coward]

The Brotherhood of NOD has taken over 75% of the United States!

Bad Day for Sony?

[HotNeedleOfInquiry]

More like a bad 2 years. Pro video division down the toilet, missed the window for LCD monitors and TV's, crappy reliability on most of the other products they make.

It's amazing that a company so good could tank so fast. Almost reminds me of DEC. Maybe Toshiba should buy them out.

Re:Bad Day for Sony?

[^me^]

good? their minidisc stuff was terrible. Their computers are gimmicky. memory stick was just a year early of every other freaking memory card onthe planet. ATRAC3? yeah ok, that's trash. the last time they did anything truly useful was the walkman.

Re:Bad Day for Sony?

[demonbug]

Yeah, Sony sure has become a bunch of $sys$ies lately.

OMG, this could be better than M$!

$ony, $sys$ony, $sys$ONYou, the variations are nearly endless!

Re:Bad Day for Sony?

[dar]

You're not going back far enough. Once upon a time, they made really good audio and tv products. Got too big or too greedy I guess.

Re:Bad Day for Sony?

[Thalagyrt]

About Sony LCDs - I bought a 23 inch Sony LCD before this whole fiasco and I'm incredibly happy with it. The picture is perfect and the dot pitch/refresh time is great. I don't think I'll be buying any other Sony products from now on, but if I do buy a second display it will definitely be another Sony LCD of the same model. Anything else Sony makes, I won't be buying.

Re:Bad Day for Sony?

[Kaenneth]

And I recently bought a new PS2.

because the last 2 that I bought both died. (while my old NES still chugs along)

Unfortunetly, I have a sizable collection of Playstation games to plow through. (plus memory cards, controllers, etc.)

Damn you Square for leaving Nintendo!

I hope they are still selling systems at a loss.

Vulnerability

[Anonymous Coward]

So we have a vulnerability on machines that was pushed out intentionally by somebody. We know who that somebody is.

The question is, will they get punished for this by the authorities? The FBI and police seem to be happy to jail writers of virii or worms or those who spread vulnerabilities to unsuspecting systems. Why shouldn't the product manager responsible for this pay for his crime of making the nations computers even more insecure?

Considering the rootkit is installed without owners realistically being aware, doesn't that make it equivalent to a form of worm, virus, or other type of nasty?

I seriously believe that someone should be doing jail time for this. Such a punishment would make any other malfeasants think twice before thinking that they don't have to obey the law.

Re:Vulnerability

[sfjoe]

The question is, will they get punished for this by the authorities? The FBI and police seem to be happy to jail writers of virii or worms or those who spread vulnerabilities to unsuspecting systems

That's a really nice sentiment but unlikely to come to pass. For some odd reason, the majority of Americans don't seem to believe that coporations should be punished for crimes or have to pay for damage they do. If your suggestion were to become law, then air polluters might be required to pay for the health care for millions of asthmatic children and the managers of Dow Chemical would be on death row for the murder of 800 people in Bhopal, India.

Re:Vulnerability

[moehoward]

Maybe nobody called the FBI.

Come on. If someone secretly installs a rootkit/backdoor on your system and you have no doubt who did it, then you must call the FBI and/or your state authorities. This is a criminal matter, not something to start a boycott about.

If I had been infected, my first course of action would have been to call the FBI and report the store that sold it so that they could clear the shelves/close the store. Injunction, injunction, that's the function.

But, there is no possible way that I can be infected because I enroll in all the Slashdot Boycotts(tm) and haven't purchased a CD or new music in years. Not even iTunes, because the official boycott called for a boycott of all music companies. But somehow, I am still enjoying new music...

Re:Vulnerability

[freidog]

Considering the rootkit is installed without owners realistically being aware, doesn't that make it equivalent to a form of worm, virus, or other type of nasty?

No, it makes it a pieces of spyware or malware, which may or may not yet be illegal. The state of New York (and a few others) have filed civil suits against spyware companies based on existing tresspass and privacy laws.
The 'I-SPY' act ( a Federal anti-spyware law) as far as I know is still waiting to be passed by the Senate. In fact it's been sitting in the senate judiciary committie since the end of May, so don't hold your breath.

I'm not interested in jail time so much as making sony pay. The New York state spy-ware law suits were something like a $500 fine per instance of infection - consider the millions of infected CDs Sony sold over the last 18 months, and you can bankrupt Sony pretty quickly. A $50 billion dollar class action law suit - that's a Ford Pinto type situation. I don't think they'll forget the lesson when they're still paying into a settelment fund 25 years from now.

Re:Vulnerability

[Anonymous Coward]

I wouldn't say, "the majority of Americans don't seem to believe that corporations should be punished". I would more likely say that the majority of Americans know that nothing will happen to corporations regardless of what they as Americans do. Yes, you can boycott products and call local government and do any number of things that are supposed to work. But in the end, none of them work. Until these corporations are no longer allowed to donate large amounts of money to political parties, corporate abuse of the environment, the populace, and the government won't stop.

Re:Vulnerability

[poot_rootbeer]

Why shouldn't the product manager responsible for this pay for his crime of making the nations computers even more insecure?

Because he works for a corporation, and his liabilities for actions taken in the pursuit of corporate interests are thereby limited.

Should Sony Corp. be punished with a monster fine and business sanctions? Hell yes IMO.

Re:Vulnerability

[SoulRider]

Oh give me a break. They are a corporation, when they can reap the benefits of society its all like "we are an individual and deserve the same benefits as any individual". When it comes time to fess up to their misdeeds within that same society its "we are a faceless corporation we cannot be held accountable for our actions". The hypocrasy is mind numbing. The really sad part is that Americans seem to agree with both statements even thought they contratict each other.

Re:Vulnerability

[10Ghz]

Aren't corporations considered to be people in legal sense? So if I install rootkits on thousands of computers and end up in jail, shouldn't similar punishment face Sony as well? And since Sony is considered a person, we should put Sony in jail as well.

But how do you put a corporation in to prison, even though that are considered to be a person? We could revoke their rights as a corporation (so they couldn't sell or produce their goods. Just like prisoners lose many right regural citizens enjoy). We could also confiscate their property (prisoners don't usually have much personal belongings when they are in jail).

Seriously: why isn't this being done? If corporations are "people", then shouldn't they be handled as people, with similar punishments?

Re:Vulnerability

[Blackhalo]

Wrong.

The "limited liability" of a coproration applies only to the sharehoders.

Get 'em good

[Anonymous Coward]

Go to http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/ or http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form14.html

Where it asks for the Artists name type in some diatribe

Where it asks for the Album Title, type in more diatribe

Where it asks for Store Name, type in yet even more diatribe

Where it asks for email address try something that will cause them trouble such as uce@ftc.gov or some chronic antispammer advocate.

This will hopefully force Sony to make the "patch directly downloadable." ...since Sony says over 2 million disks containing the rootkit have been sold, that puts them under the gun for roughly U.S. $150 billion in damages :)

Perhaps the copyright owners could offer to settle: have Sony repay all of the people who have been extorted for money because of filesharing (double for damages), and promise to stop all such activities in the future. That would only run them about $100 million, so it would be quite a deal.

Re:Get 'em good

[FluffyWithTeeth]

Last I heard, this didn't actually remove it. It just hides it a bit more, and upgrades it...

This is why they're gonna get burned from this.

Boycott Big Music

[drdanny_orig]

I suggest people consider boycotting _all_ RIAA member labels, not just Sony. They just happened to be the fools who fell for this particular version. It's not hte implementation that's anathema, it's the concept of DRM. When in doubt, consult RIAA Radar. Don't buy discs produced by RIAA members, it't that simple.

Re:Boycott Big Music

[Guppy06]

"I suggest people consider boycotting _all_ RIAA member labels, not just Sony."

I've been doing that for years, along with the MPAA. I think we've seen how well that's worked out.

Re:Boycott Big Music

[jandrese]

Yeah, they labeled you a pirate, assumed you would have bought 500 CDs a day otherwise, calculated how much profit they would get from 500 CDs a day, and used that as an excuse to create rootkit enabled CDs. Good job Guppy06, way to ruin it for the rest of us.

Re:Boycott Big Music

[dcam]

I'm not sure that is necessary. If Sony takes a big hit on this one, the other labels are likely to take note and modify their behavior. The again I could be wrong.

Re:Boycott Big Music

[Anonymous Coward]

And what effect will that have? There's what, a few thousand (hundred? dozen?) Slashdot readers who might actually buy an RIAA CD in the first place, as opposed to downloading the MP3s or even legally purchasing songs from iTunes or AllofMP3.com? So maybe you convince 100% of them not to buy RIAA junk. So you take something like $10K out of the RIAA companies' pockets. Not exactly crippling.

Now try getting the group that matters -- 12 to 20 year olds -- to boycott RIAA music CDs. Good luck. Life without the latest Britneyjessicamandychristinaashlee Spearssimpson CD just isn't worth living to that age group.

Re:Boycott Big Music

[Myopic]

yeah. we'll all just hum to ourselves.

Who was held accountable?

[Murphy's Paradox]

I wonder how many people, and their positions in the company, were shipped off to Sony's Siberian department for this debacle. I also wonder if anyone Even though the programmers were told to do this by management, I'm sure they are getting in trouble for not being sneaky enough with the code.

[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[dada21]

I use a PDA Phone to browser /. and type everything into MS's PDA version of Notepad. Then I copy and paste it into /. so I don't lose my comment from one of the billion reasons I have in the past.

I subscribe because it allows me to read the articles before they're /.d by the mass onslaught of others when the article goes live. The $10 a month or whatever I pay is well worth the consideration I receive from other regulars here, and has been very helpful in composing my views and thoughts on certain subjects. Yeah, the signal to noise ratio gets worse and worse here every day, but /. has probably increased my online reading rate at least 300% over the years, so it balances itself out :)

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[dada21]

Nah. I get moderated -1, Troll as often as +5, Significant and +5, Funny. In fact, lately I've received more -1, Troll moderations as I've ever seen, even though my intent is neither trolling nor karma whoring.

For the years I've been visiting /., I have always been disturbed by the socialist attitudes of the youth here. I felt the opposite side of the politics of almost every article needed to be posted.

Now you see many more people willing to grasp the concepts of the free market (market anarchism as I like to call it). It may not have anything to do with me, but every little bit helps!

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Oliver Wendell Jones]

American Express charges more than most major credit cards and companies that live on thin margins often times will not accept American Express.

This is very prevalent at places like computer shows where they quote cash prices and charge a percentage extra to cover credit cards - American Express will almost always cost you more to use than a Visa or MasterCard in such a situation.

To me, not taking American Express is a way of saying "we're doing everything we can to keep our prices as low as possible and pass the savings along to you!"

Now, I'm sure that someone will point out that Wal-Mart accepts AmEx, but I'd be willing to bet you that someone from Wal-Mart went to AmEx and said "here's the deal - reduce your cost to us or your out" - and I think we can all guess the outcome of that...

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Rasta Prefect]

Why Menard's won't do it is beyond me. Home Depot is always around the corner, and we're finally getting Lowe's here as well, in the Midwest.

Because American Express rewards their customers by charging much higher merchant fees than their competition.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/general/2004-1 2-22-amex_x.htm

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

I think market anarchism is probably the worst possible name you could choose. I can see how that would seem like a logical name BUT you've got to think about the imagery that someone gets in their head when they hear "anarchy." If you are serious about this push (and I believe you are) you may look to find a more marketing friendly name.

Tthe pro-choice crowd don't call themselves "pro-abortion" for very specific reasons. I think that line of thought should guide you as well.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Rude Turnip]

I can get myself a very nice bicycle or laser printer for free through Amex because of their rewards program. I put all my groceries, gas and business travel on that card and it pays back in a nice way. Having to pay it off at the end of the month also helps to keep my spending in line.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Where in the midwest? Around St. Louis we've had Lowe's for years....

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why? Probably because compared to the Visa/Mastercard duopoly, AMEX charges crazy rates to processors and stores. Our second client refused to pay by anything but AMEX, and the costs just to process that one client's payments are $20/month over our normal costs, plus around 2% more of the transaction than we pay for V/MC transactions (he was our second client, and we were kind of desperate). Maybe in bulk we could command better rates.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[MBraynard]

I agree he has a poor choice of label. But he has a point in trying to distinguish himself from the phony people who do consider themselves 'capitalists' but aren't, really.

To me, capitalist is sort of like 'pregnant.' Either you are or you aren't. But others don't really see it that way.

Further, it doesn't really matter what he calls it here on /. The commie kids with authority complexes will attack him anyway.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[mpathetiq]

Tthe pro-choice crowd don't call themselves "pro-abortion" for very specific reasons. I think that line of thought should guide you as well.

Not to mention that being pro-choice does not mean you are pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice but think of abortion as a last-ditch effort. However, I will gladly support your right to make the choice you think is best.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Anonymous Coward]

Ditto in NW and Central Ohio - never even heard of Menards

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[AndersOSU]

Bah nothing in economics or politics is ever binary. That's why it's called the Political Spectrum...

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Rasta Prefect]

I can get myself a very nice bicycle or laser printer for free through Amex because of their rewards program. I put all my groceries, gas and business travel on that card and it pays back in a nice way. Having to pay it off at the end of the month also helps to keep my spending in line.

Yeah, but the guy I responded to said that he couldn't understand why Menards wouldn't take AmEx. And the reason would be that Menards doesn't really want to pay for your bicycle or laser printer. :)

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[(A)*(B)!0_-]

"Not to mention that being pro-choice does not mean you are pro-abortion. I'm pro-choice but think of abortion as a last-ditch effort. However, I will gladly support your right to make the choice you think is best."

The term "pro-abortion" does not imply the level of meaning that you believe it does. I'm pro-turkey sandwiches does not imply that I am in favor of turkey sandwiches once a week, ten times a week, thirty times a week. It merely means that I am in favor of the existence of turkey sandwiches and do not believe they should be outlawed. You are assuming meaning that is not implied. While this is the case of many people (and hence why pro-abortion would be a bad label), it does not mean it is correct to assume that level of meaning.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[mpathetiq]

Fair enough. I did not look at it that way.

I too am pro-turkey. I lean towards 30 times a week, though. Mmmm... dumb bird flesh.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[hunterx11]

But you could be against eating turkey sandwiches, and even encourage others not to eat turkey sandwiches, and still want them to be legal.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Frymaster]

To me, capitalist is sort of like 'pregnant.' Either you are or you aren't.

virtually everyone who calls themself a 'capitalist' isn't. to be a capitalist, you must live off the revenue generated by capital you control. i suspect stronlgy that dada21 and others like him actually live by trading their labour to people who are, in fact capitalists.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Firethorn]

In today's society, there's fewer true 'capitalists' than ever before. If you define a capitalist as a person whose sole 'work' is managing his or her money to generate (hopefully) additional return.

For example, in my third job, the owner of the company worked more hours than anybody else, and often made less. This situation is frequent in small business. In most large businesses, they're publicly traded, which means that a good portion of their stock is owned by mutual funds and people who work for a living.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Akira1]

I think the political attitude here is in a constant state of flux, directly proportional to the state of the job market. I personaly thought some communist aspects were interesting until I reached the point where my salary eclipsed that which I'd earn in a communist system. Not that it matters as the world economy will quickly bring it down to that rate again anyways. It is always hard to weigh personal gain against being a good libertarian and capitalist.

OT: You seemed to have dropped off the face of the earth (NASIOC), how you been, send me an email sometime. We haven't chatted politics in quite some time.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Firethorn]

The term "pro-abortion" does not imply the level of meaning that you believe it does. I'm pro-turkey sandwiches does not imply that I am in favor of turkey sandwiches once a week, ten times a week, thirty times a week. It merely means that I am in favor of the existence of turkey sandwiches and do not believe they should be outlawed.

It seems that everybody has different shades of meaning. I once got into an argument with a extreme pro-lifer. He called a political person 'pro-abortion'. He did this to make her position seem more extreme. I argued that a person who is truely pro-abortion would support things like mandatory abortions for underage girls, women on welfare, fetuses with detected defects, etc...

I'll be honest with you. If you say that you're pro-turkey sandwiches, I'm going to assume that you like turkey sandwiches, not that you merely support their existance. While indeed, the choice of 'pro-choice' is a compromise, it's a compromise. I think that many people agree with me. This is one of the very few times that I'm inline with what Kerry says: "Abortions should be safe, legal, and rare". It fits in with my belief that it's better to concentrate on reducing demand for negative acts&materials, not try to ban the act/material. Banning while demand still exists only leads to black markets.

You are assuming meaning that is not implied. While this is the case of many people (and hence why pro-abortion would be a bad label), it does not mean it is correct to assume that level of meaning.

I'm sorry, but from common english, being pro something generally tends to mean that you're in favor and support it.

For example, I support the rights of Neo-Nazis, KKK, and other racists and sexists to speak their views. Doesn't mean that I'm pro-Nazi, KKK, Black Panther, Communist, etc... Matter of fact I disapprove of their beliefs to the point that if they ever attempt to impose their wanted order by anything other than speaking, writing, and voting, I'm fully prepared to lay my life down in opposition to them.

It does mean that I'm Pro-Free Speech.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Irish_Samurai]

For example, I support the rights of Neo-Nazis, KKK, and other racists and sexists to speak their views. Doesn't mean that I'm pro-Nazi, KKK, Black Panther, Communist, etc... Matter of fact I disapprove of their beliefs to the point that if they ever attempt to impose their wanted order by anything other than speaking, writing, and voting, I'm fully prepared to lay my life down in opposition to them.

It does mean that I'm Pro-Free Speech.

I can't tell you how many times I have had to argue for free speech, free market, and personal liberties only to have my arguments twisted in an attempt to categorize me with the extreme viewpoints and actions associated with such things.

This seems to happen quite alot on /. too. The jumps in logic some people are willing to make just so they can "be right" are truly astounding.

To tie this back to GP post, the term pro-choice is an aggregate term. The word choice lends itself to many different scenarios and perspectives that could be had on the issue, their unifying concept being that the ability to chose should exist. A term like pro-turkey can really only be viewed as being for Turkey, whether that is the Nation or the Food.

The original idea that started this all was the term "market anarchism", which I agree is a really bad term in the marketing sense. To get more people behind the idea you should use a term with a more diverse meaning that would appeal to people with the same ideals and those with a more discerning vocabulary. Something like "market royal rumble" or "China" should do the trick.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[TapeCutter]

"Either you are or you aren't."

In other words "with us or against us". Pregnancy is a physical state, being a "Capitalist" is a concept. There is a vast difference.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[ball-lightning]

All of a sudden I started seeing you in a ton of threads. Did you all of a sudden start posting a lot, or what?

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[stinerman]

I'm as socialist as they come, but you're still on my friends list. I like to hear an anarchocapitalist point of view so I can compare and contrast it to my own anarchosocialist views.

As far as your modding issues, people tend to mod down what they don't like. We try to catch it in metamod at least.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[MBraynard]

Being alive and being dead are two physical states.

One 'concept' results in life, many others do not. There is no difference.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[MBraynard]

I understand your sentiment, but there is an underlying binary system to both economics and politics and all matters: life and death.

Policies in each either lead to life or they lead to death. That is the measure of the merit of the policy. Capitalism - in it's true form that dada is trying to distinguish - is one that leads to life.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[RobinH]

virtually everyone who calls themself a 'capitalist' isn't. to be a capitalist, you must live off the revenue generated by capital you control. i suspect stronlgy that dada21 and others like him actually live by trading their labour to people who are, in fact capitalists.

I disagree. I do not have enough capital in terms of monetary assets and equity to generate enough income to live off, but I am a capitalist. I live off "trading labor" as you call it, but since my person is something I own (hence, I am my own capital), then I am, in a sense, living off capital, as is everyone who has a job and doesn't rely on social assistance.

As I trade my labor for capital, I re-invest some in improving myself, I pay maintenance fees like rent, heat, and food, and then I put some away which I can use as monetary capital to generate more income later in life.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[TapeCutter]

Now that's funny!

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[dada21]

I am an AmEx accepter at all my businesses and taking AmEx can double some of my sales.

I've found some of my businesses cash strapped ($100,000 short for 30 days) and being a gold member was a great experience.

We stopped our old accounting mechanisms which allowed us a better forecast of cash flow needs. Once I stabilized my cash flow (3 rocky months) I dropped my AmEx account, but I still give them accolades and will always support the payment option.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Catbeller]

For flavor try: forced-pregnancy-and-childbirth. Words are fun...

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[kers]

virtually everyone who calls themself a 'capitalist' isn't. to be a capitalist, you must live off the revenue generated by capital you control. i suspect stronlgy that dada21 and others like him actually live by trading their labour to people who are, in fact capitalists.

I disagree. I do not have enough capital in terms of monetary assets and equity to generate enough income to live off, but I am a capitalist. I live off "trading labor" as you call it, but since my person is something I own (hence, I am my own capital), then I am, in a sense, living off capital, as is everyone who has a job and doesn't rely on social assistance.

Thats a interesting way to make yourself feel better - but the fact remain: it is incorrect. If you want to use a widely used term as "capitalist" and get away with it, use it as it is traditionally defined.

You are a capitalist if you live on the accumulated profits from your capital.

If you live on selling your labour to other, you are a "worker".

It's Economics 101. Both Adams and Marx agree on this.

Walk up to George Soros and call yourself "capitalist" and you will be laughed in the face. You might be a well educated white-color worker, but you are still a filthy worker who only got one function: create profit for the man who is writing your paycheck.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Foobar of Borg]

Even the whole idea of a Political Spectrum is nonsense, despite what the Ann Coulters and Al Frankens try to tell you. True politics should be at least an N-dimensional space, with N equal to the number of possible issues. The political spectrum from Liberal to Conservative is just picking one of a set of teams to root for.

Take the Sony case, for example. It shows how screwed up the whole corporate system is in America (and just about everywhere else, too). Limited and controlled corporations to serve the public good (like utilities) can be good, but the kind of corporations we tend to get now are very much a problem. You get corporations like Sony who, relying of Intellectual Property for their business model, try to gobble up all the intellectual property they can. That's why they try insane and inane nonsense like this rootkit and why all the different IP related corporations try to stretch the boundaries of what IP they can obtain. Instead of simply owning the rights to particular music or particular books, they try to obtain ownership of IP down to the most fundamental level that they can. If they could get away with it, they would own all possible forms of expression and require you to pay them for it (or go to jail). In a similar vein, you have corporations like Monsanto trying to own the IP to the smallest piece of the genetic code that they can. And they have teams of reptilian lawyers (think Serpentor or Cobra Commander with a briefcase and a docket clerk) that are more than happy to try to get it for them, all the while patting themselves on the back for how "smart" they think they are.

Anyway, my apologies to the parent poster. I was going to make a simple reply, but got stuck in rant mode.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Schemat1c]

Capitalism - in it's true form that dada is trying to distinguish - is one that leads to life.

Or maybe just a slower form of death. Capitalism seems good to us in the western world but spreads poverty and hopelessness to the third world countries that get exploited because if it. In the long run I believe it is unsustainable. It's like an organism feeding off of it's own body, eventually the entire body will die. I wish I had an alternative system to offer but due to the greed and selfishness of most humans I don't think any system has a snowballs chance in hell of working.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[uncoveror]

The problem with free market theories is that they advocate the law of the jungle and the law of the land being the same. That flies in the face of civilization itself. Under such a system, big tigers get the meat, and small ones starve. Might is right. Humanity never would have needed civilization if that had worked.

Capitalism as an economic theory has its attributes and flaws, but capitalism as a religion is the worst thing ever foisted upon humankind. If you let "do as thou willst be the whole of the law" in business, you give businessmen a license to rob and loot. Guess what. They will use it. Bowing before golden calves called "competition" and "the markets" is all anarcho-captalism is, and libertarianism is basically the same.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[mortong]

Then you're not a true pro-turkey sandwicher. I, for one, would kill for my turkey sandwich.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[MBraynard]

Your completely wrong in every possible way.

Capitalism is the savior of the third world. It works every time it's tried. Just look at the Asian tigers.

You should really sit down with some Ayn Rand. I'd even offer to buy a book or two for you if you'd read it. I'd recommend Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[senatorpjt]

So, congratulations, you were always a capitalist. Liking communism because it would get you a higher salary isn't communism. I like communism because of the convenience of never having to worry about losing your checkbook.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Schemat1c]

Capitalism is the savior of the third world. It works every time it's tried. Just look at the Asian tigers.

You should really sit down with some Ayn Rand. I'd even offer to buy a book or two for you if you'd read it. I'd recommend Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal.

Well, how about you send some copies to the school age children working 12 hours a day to make your shoes. It wouldn't matter anyway since they had to drop out of school to earn slave wages to barely feed their family just so you can get a nice price when you buy them at Wal-Mart. Capitalism like Socialism and all those other ism's sound great in a book, but in practice the masses get exploited in order for a small percentage to get wealthy.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[SoupIsGoodFood_42]

Works every time it's tried? When? How?

For you others out there, here's an excellent way to spot a crack-head Ayndroid: They think that capitalism is the one, true answer, and they love to mention Ayn Rand. If you happen to see where they live, they will probably have a huge book cover/poster of Atlas Shrugged in their bedroom.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[ShrikeDOA]

"Tthe pro-choice crowd don't call themselves "pro-abortion" for very specific reasons. I think that line of thought should guide you as well."

Reasons like...they're not pro-abortion?. My wife is staunchly pro-choice but anti-abortion. She doesn't feel she would ever have one, but believes others should be allowed to make their own choice.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[simon_hibbs2]

Perhaps you should read some Adam Smith. He's widely regarded as the founding father of capitalist economic theory. He's a bit of a bugbear to socialist, but is often badly misrepresented. In fact he was insistent that regulation by government was vital if capitalist economics was to realise the maximum social good. He believed that capitalism is simply a means to an end, which is the welfare of the general population and the promotion of civil society. Much of the modern terminology we use in this area was 'invented' after his time, but the same ideas are there in his books.

You are raising a straw man. Yes it's possible for capitalist theory to be taken too far, but in practice you won't find many people actualy promoting such extreme forms of it. Well, outside the White House anyway.

Simon

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Firethorn]

I can't tell you how many times I have had to argue for free speech, free market, and personal liberties only to have my arguments twisted in an attempt to categorize me with the extreme viewpoints and actions associated with such things.

Agreed. That's why I'm carefull how I phrase things. I don't like racists and such, but feel that market forces should be used against them at this point, versus government regulation, which I feel does more harm than good. I'm a government distrusting libertarian, not a racist. I seriously believe in equal opportunity, but feel that's for government agencies and services, and that very freedom should allow small business owners to do what they want with their business, so long as it doesn't hurt others in a liability sense. Have a KKK printer who doesn't want to hire or serve non-whites? Fine, enjoy having to pay higher wages, get less business(I'm not going to patronize your fine establishment), and probably quickly go out of business. Corporations have to get a charter to exist, and get special benefits and treatment in law for liability* and other aspects, supposably for 'the common good', thus can be subject to more of this sort of regulation. Even then, I feel that the court of public opinion should be used to it's maximum effect.

The original idea that started this all was the term "market anarchism", which I agree is a really bad term in the marketing sense. To get more people behind the idea you should use a term with a more diverse meaning that would appeal to people with the same ideals and those with a more discerning vocabulary. Something like "market royal rumble" or "China" should do the trick.

Cute terms, but I'd suggest "open market", "Free market", "unregulated market" to be better terms. Royal Rumble, to me, brings up images of the fake 'pro wrestling'. China, well, isn't an open market, at least internally.

*The whole 'all the money you can loose if the company folds is your investment' thing

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Irish_Samurai]

The names were a joke.

I completely agree with keeping governemt regulationa out of certain businesses. A company can break a law, they cannot however spend a dollar that the consumer did not give to them.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Polyzinha]

Instead of Ayn Rand, perhaps some actual economics books might be more helpful? I'd recommend the taped lecture series "Contemporary Economic Issues" by Timothy Taylor. (Many public libraries carry these.) Even if you don't agree with all his conclusions, he does a good job of giving a big-picture view of the last ~50 years in the economy of the US and several other regions so you can make up your own mind.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[MBraynard]

First, it's in my office.

Second, it's a giclee (or print) cover of The Fountainhead. It is a limited edition and is #2 out of 250 and signed by the original artist.

You may also spot an 'Ayndriod' by seeing us wearing my red 'Enjoy Capitalism' hoodie, stylized like the coca-cola logo.

As a side note, I have never been able to find a 'poster' of any Rand book covers anywhere. I have tried. If you know a source please let me know.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[MBraynard]

You are highly ignorant.

It is through a capitalism system that children's parents can better provide for their family and not have to send their children to the workplace.

I also believe this 'children working sweatshops' thing is far over-stated and I'd like you to name these alleged 'capitalist' countries that have them. Go ahead - name a few. Vietnam? Red China? Indonesia? These are not capitalist contries by a long shot.

The free-est economies are almost entirely also the wealthiest. See here: Heritage Foundation's annual study.

Even the free-er countries on that list are only recently free and are emerging from a socialist environment.

Your entire ideology seems to be based on contradictory, false, and shallow left wing sound bites you haven't taken the time to analyze. It's no way to go through life.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[Schemat1c]

You are highly ignorant.

The fact that you answer my opinion with a personal insult just shows how threatened you are by the truth. While you may spend your time happily reading economic propaganda I would suggest you might take a look at history itself. England gained it's incredible wealth through capitalism by exploiting the indigenous people of far away lands and exploiting the poor in their own nation. This tradition was continued in the American colonies but since the indigenous peoples here wouldn't allow themselves to be used in this manner they were simply destroyed and others were imported in.

The free-est economies are almost entirely also the wealthiest.

Sure they are. If you allow people to conduct business completely unrestrained immense wealth is accumulated, of course in the hands of a select few. It was only through the actions and bloodshed of many people that freedoms for the worker and the poor were gained to allow the wealth to be spread around, at least a little bit more. But when these freedoms were won in America the corporations simply turned to third world nations out of the general populations sight to find their supply of unfortunate dregs to do their dirty work.

also believe this 'children working sweatshops' thing is far over-stated and I'd like you to name these alleged 'capitalist' countries that have them. Go ahead - name a few. Vietnam? Red China? Indonesia? These are not capitalist countries by a long shot.

Of course they are not capitalist that is why they don't get to share in the fruits of their labour. They do what they are told and their corrupt government gets fat from payoffs by the business men from capitalist nations. Duh!!

Your entire ideology seems to be based on contradictory, false, and shallow left wing sound bites you haven't taken the time to analyze. It's no way to go through life.

Excuse me but I am not right wing or left wing. For some reason believing in human rights over profits gets people labeled as left wing or pinko commies. It actually comes from my sense of compassion and honor, two traits which you obviously don't possess. So go ahead and insult me and tell me how wrong I am because I don't worship profits as you do. Let's talk again in 20 years and see how this system has served humanity as a whole.

Do my referral for a free game - I paypal you $10. [freepsps.com]

I also find in very amusing to be called ignorant by a scumbag spammer. Got any more get rich pyramid schemes to offer? Pfft...

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[harlequin516]

Libertarianism, with a Big "L", has more to do with freedoms of individuals. When Libertarians talk about free markets, rarely are they talking about multinational corporations, they don't belive in them. You are right about all the other stuff.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[MBraynard]

1) To call one ignorant is not an insult.

2) England continued to be the United States greatest trading partner in the post-colonial era.

3) England did not have a capitalist system - it had an authoritarian mercantilist system mandating that the US could only export to them - and only export certain materials. Again this illustrates your ignorance.

4) Governments getting payoffs from a corporation is not capitalism. At the heart of capitalism is anti-coercian. AGain, you are ignorant about what capitalism is.

5) You say you support human rights over profits, which is a contradiction because the most important human right is the right to profit from your talent, abilities, and hard work.

6) I'm not interested in serving humanity. I am interested in being happy. But I assure you I will do far more for my brother men in a given year than you will as evidenced by income that I earned from satisfying their economic needs along with being a right cheerful person to be around. I also value the happiness of others and am able to devote my resources to assisting those who have potential but have been borne into bad circumstances. But this is only possible because I am able to earn these resources in a capitalist system.

7) Not only do you not know what capitalism is, you don't know what a pyramid scheme is. The free psp thing is in itself a pyramid scheme, but what I have done is removed the pyramid. You sign up, you get $10, and you don't have to get anyone else 'under' you.

Ya savvy?

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[shutdown -p now]

Capitalism is the savior of the third world. It works every time it's tried. Just look at the Asian tigers.

Of course, every time it doesn't (and there have been many more examples of that - Africa, Latin America, Russia anyone?), it's labeled "impure" or "incorrectly implemented". How convenient.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[shutdown -p now]

Indeed. And what freedoms are out there, exactly, is something not everyone agrees upon either. That's why there is not just traditional capitalist libertarianism, but also libertarian socialism and even libertarian communism. After all, who said the right to own property is a fundamental right? Some of us believe that it is, in fact, detrimental to personal freedom - something which libertarianism is all about, the freedom to choose for yourself.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[laughingcoyote]

That's an interesting take on that...in the end, isn't "ownership" of property (at least, beyond "I'm bigger and meaner then you and will attack you if you try and take it away") a function of the government as well? What good will "owning" property really do you, if anyone who takes it away won't be arrested and thrown in jail?

Another Sony story in the news

[matt me]

Today I read (UK newspaper) that Sony are going to increase the price at which they sell products to online retailers supposedly so their high-street stores can compete.

Re:Another Sony story in the news

[Alioth]

I heard that too on Radio 4 this morning. My thoughts - no, it's not to level the playing field, it's simply to get more money. Of course, there's nothing wrong with pricing a product to make more money, but then coming up with weasel words about 'leveling the playing field' instead of admitting the real goal is just slimy.

Re:Another Sony story in the news

[mikael]

Here's the article from The Times.

Sony denies penalising internet shopping sites, arguing that it is rewarding stores that can demonstrate its products.

Internet traders will meet today to decide whether to "name and shame" the companies involved, which include the leading household names in home entertainment goods.

Today's article of LWN.net about Sony

[njchick]

http://lwn.net/SubscriberLink/160023/27b2a2ec75f19 81b/

Maybe the time's arrived...

[gik]

Maybe people will finally understand the implications of this DRM crap. At the very least people everywhere will think twice before endorsing a method used by greedy fat cats to impose their assy will on others.

[/Rage]

FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[The Rizz]

Why hasn't Sony been raided by the Feds, yet?

If this had been an individual, or small business, you know they would already be behind bars awaiting trial for violating some law or another... possibly even being brought up on some sort of national security-related charges.
( Someone in a secure/top secret/classified government network has probably stuck one of these CDs into their machine at some point.)

I want to know why the Feds aren't treating Sony like they would anyone else ... break into their offices, confiscate every single piece of electronics and CD in the place, and never give them back, ever (or at least, not until years after you've replaced everything).

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[P3NIS_CLEAVER]

or small business
They would only do this if the business was run by pimply 15-year-old geeks

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[SilverspurG]

Because we live in a democratically elected plutocracy.

By associating it with democracy, though, that makes it all better. We're all supposed to be happy that corporate profits supersede individual rights and property.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[Guppy06]

"Why hasn't Sony been raided by the Feds, yet?"

Two words: campaign contributions.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[OneFix at Work]

Someone in a secure/top secret/classified government network has probably stuck one of these CDs into their machine at some point.

No, they probably haven't. The kinds of machines that are in these secure environments are locked down big time...most don't even have a CD-ROM attached to the machine. The networks are closed (no direct internet access) and the machines with CD-ROMs/RWs have their lasers aligned differently so as to not be able to be read on a standard drive...one of the benifits of purposefuly misaligning the laser that writes the disks to be read in these machines is that you can't just insert a standard CD...

Yes, contrary to what the media would have you belive, the folks in secure/top-secret/classified government positions are not stupid...

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[RembrandtX]

Actually .. its probably got something to do with SONY headquarters being located in Japan :)

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sorry, but I used to do Top Secret compartmented work on a standard Apple machine. Even better, I would use it to play standard music cds while I worked.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[CoderBob]

That wouldn't stop it from happening at home. Which I think is what the GP was referring to- not them loading it at work, but at home. Odds are good that someone in one of those fields has been infected at home.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[SilverspurG]

most don't even have a CD-ROM attached to the machine. The networks are closed (no direct internet access)

That's only true of the systems which actually hold secret/top secret information. A system's breach of their office computers could potentially be every bit as bad.

the machines with CD-ROMs/RWs have their lasers aligned differently so as to not be able to be read on a standard drive

Can you provide a link to back this up? This sounds like vaporware. Is that a 1/2 turn for secret CD drives and 1/3 turn for top secret? Or are the individual CDs marked with a cryptic code that tells the user which alignment to use? Is there a How To Properly Align You Top Secret CDROM SOP in the room with white noise?

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[OneFix at Work]

How long ago was this? Some branches may be different, but the secure facilities I know of generally consist of Windows PCs locked down in the way that I described. Before CD-RWs were popular, the standards were probably more relaxed, but now that anyone can buy a CD-RW and write any type of software to it...they exercise more caution with CDs/DVDs...

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[bill_kress]

I'm guessing they sent a Fed with 3 police escorts (like usual). The fed said "Sieze all these computers" as usual--but the police just looked around and said "Fuck this shit" and went out for a beer.

Well, that's how I THINK it went.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[starm_]

I think someone today accidently but appropriately coined the term Hypocracy when trying to write hypocrisy.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[MoogMan]

Most companies are not comprised fully, of geeks. In fact, *most* companies have a significant minority of people that know a lot about computers.

So you see, you are correct. They are not stupid. But a lot of them do not know a huge lot about computers. These are not two mutually exclusive things.

e.g. The security policy may forbid programs for being installed etc. But some programs may seem to be legitimate... "but i was just trying to use player for my music".

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[StarsAreAlsoFire]

Because we live in a democratically elected plutocracy.

Democracy? Where?

The United States is a Representative (somewhat socialist, mostly capitalistic) Republic, when it comes to the federal level.

We do NOT elect the president by direct democracy. We do not vote on anything at the federal level.

Which just shows I have no arguement with your point.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[OneFix at Work]

Can you provide a link to back this up?

A link? Are you nuts? Not everything is online you know...

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[SilverspurG]

We're not even a Republic anymore. A republic is defined by a charter document. The Federal Government has been outright ignoring that document (specifically, the 9th and 10th Amendments) since the very first Congress.

The USA is today what we used to call a "banana republic". Same regime, different faces, same bullshit, with a piece of paper (which nobody follows anyway) to show the media and the UN.

You can say the USA is capitalist but, in your definition, any society which has a monetary system is capitalist. A more meaningful definition of capitalist makes it exclusive from Communist or Socialist. The USA definitely expresses powers and authorities typical of Communist and Socialist regimes.

I don't really have much argument with your point. I just wish people would quit with the capitalism bashing bandwagon. It's really no better than name-calling because there's no basis for it. All of the evils which people lump on capitalism are really evils caused by government graft and corruption. Widespread graft and corruption are symptoms of a dysfunctional communist or socialist system.

A true Republic according to the United States' Constitution would still have some graft and corruption (every system will by default) but the Federal Government would be so small that it wouldn't make much difference to everyday taxpayers.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can insert your cd and listen to it all day. Only problem is that your cd then becomes classified material and either needs to be destroyed or stored in a vault.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security?

[StarsAreAlsoFire]

Oh goodness, I didn't mean to imply that capitalism is bad/evil. Re-reading my comment with your comment in mind I see that it is easier assume I meant all of that in a negative way than pick and choose ;~)

The only 'evil' I wanted to point out was the justaposition of our supposedly democratic nation with reality.

buy second hand?

[speedfreak_5]

I'm a music nut. I've tried the boycott thing with mixed results. But what has "worked" for me lately is buying CDs and vinyl second hand. Unfortunately, They may already have the money from the original purchase of the music, but if you buy second hand, someone gets money and you get a CD or record and the RIAA partners get nothing.

Re:buy second hand?

[BushCheney08]

The added bonus to this is that you're (usually) supporting your smaller neighborhood record shops rather than the mega-chain stores.

Re:buy second hand?

[forkazoo]

Except that by supporting the second hard market, you encourage others to buy first hand, because they will be able to get a more significant amount of cash when they move the product to the second hand market. You reduce the net cost of others to buy RIAA supported CD's. I haven't bought an RIAA CD in several years, now. I've bought a few local indie CD's.

Either choose that pop-music is really important to you, or choose that it is wrong to support the RIAA. Trying to justify yourself by buying second hand is really just a way to make somebody else get their hands dirty on your behalf.

I'm not trying to be a jerk, and I'm not saying you are a bad person. If you really do derive a lot of satisfaction from major commercial music, then that's your choice. I'm just saying that it doesn't make a lot of sense to try and convince yourself that you are really doing a good thing, just because you are only acting as an accessory to something which some consider bad.

Re:buy second hand?

[Now.Imperfect]

Personally I buy as straight from the artist as I can.

Re:buy second hand?

[avasol]

I hate to break it to ya, but that's a misconception. Most countries have rules & regulation, so called "cassette fees" dating back to the VCR era. These fees, or tallies, or mongrel money if you prefer, comes from the supposed judicial statement that most consumers are actually pirates. Sweden certainly pays them. The US does. And the UK. Further, this is taxed on all sales of copyable media. So if you buy a bunch of CD-R's, you're paying to the recording industry. One would assume the gaming industry would benefit from such a "tax", but no such luck.

And yes we do live in a corrupt, bad-for-us, world.

Re:buy second hand?

[Bohiti]

Just curious -- "mixed results"? Has a company clearly gone bankrupt because of a boycott you were involved in?

Re:buy second hand?

[ChaosDiscord]

But what has "worked" for me lately is buying CDs and vinyl second hand.

Increased value in the secondary market increases value in the primary market. Keeping in mind that my buying second-hand, you're increasing the market for second-hand CDs. An increase in the value of that market makes the first-sale CDs more valuable; if I don't like it (or I'm unscrupulous and rip it first), I can sell it for more money. End result (if enough people do this): Sony can charge slightly more for their CDs.

I'm not saying what you're doing is without value. Not all of the value you paid makes it way to the primary market. But it's not quite as effective as you might hope.

Re:buy second hand?

[Johnny5000]

Increased value in the secondary market increases value in the primary market. Keeping in mind that my buying second-hand, you're increasing the market for second-hand CDs. An increase in the value of that market makes the first-sale CDs more valuable;

I understand your argument, but I would say that the affect of the secondary market is rather negligable. Have you tried selling a used CD? You're lucky to get 50 cents for one.
I doubt many people are encouraged to buy more new CDs because they can recoup part of the investment back on the secondary market.

There may be some effect, but not enough that I would actively discourage someone from buying used CDs.

Re:buy second hand?

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally I buy as straight from the artist as I can.

Buy your music from allofmp3.com, then send an envelope with three or four dollars in it to the band. Join the fan club or whatever. Can there be a better way? Look at all of the benefits:

1. Price. The net price will be far below what you'd pay for the CD. And if you decide the music sucks, just delete it and don't bother paying the band. You're only out ~$2.
2. Convenience. Buy music at 2 am in your underwear, listen to it in minutes.
3. Flexibility. No DRM and the music is already encoded in your choice of format at your choice of bitrate (including FLAC lossless, if you want).
4. Artists get paid. More than if you bought the CD, actually.
5. Labels don't get paid. Well, they do, but not much. Almost nothing, actually, and I think what they do get is a flat license fee that is independent of how much stuff allofmp3.com sells.

Really, the only downside is the possibility that you're supporting criminals in Russia. But the other alternatives are supporting criminals in LA, or not buying music at all. And the Russian criminals in question seem to be very fair businessmen. I was impressed to see that when they tell you you're paying two cents per MB, they in fact charge you exactly $.02 for every 1,048,576 (2^20) bytes, and they calculate it to the tenth of a penny and don't deduct it until you've successfully completed the download.

Re:buy second hand?

[HiThere]

Well, but it's accessory after the fact, not accessory before the fact. That's *much* less significant. In fact there could be a legitimate argument made that a second hand marke drains money from the original sellers. (Sony, et al., clearly believe this, as evidenced by their repeated attempts to sell items which can only be played once or twice. ... I'm thinking of things like CDs that turn black after the laser exposes them to light, or the CDs that are sold in sealed packaging, and turn black within 24 hours of being exposed to oxygen.)

Personally, I find not buying their merchandise to be the best choice, but next to that I would choose buying it in a way that the vendor disapproves of...e.g., second-hand. (Actually, all of this is inferior to destroying the corp. legally, or even illegally, but it's much more practical, and much less risky.)

N.B.: Criminal charges can't generally be brought by the individuals harmed by the action, but must instead be brought by a DA, or other governmental official in a similar rols, e.g., a grand jury. This means that if a corporation commits a criminal act, the injured party must depend upon the government to choose to redress his damages. In the case of a major, or even less than major, corporation, don't hold your breath.

Re:buy second hand?

[spagiola]

if you buy second hand, someone gets money and you get a CD or record and the RIAA partners get nothing.

Sorry, but that's wrong. The existence of a thriving second-hand market means people are more willing to buy new things at higher prices. Without a second-hand market, if they buy a $15 CD and don't like it, they're out $15. With a second-hand market, it they buy a $15 CD and don't like it, they're only out the difference between $15 and whatever they can sell it for (eg if they can sell it for $8, they're only out $7). So the risk is less, ergo they're more likely to buy, or are more likely to pay a higher price. So the original vendor may get nothing from the second sale, but they get more from the first sale.

So if you're really anti-Sony, you can't buy their stuff second-hand either.

It's hard to be pure...

Re:buy second hand?

[mochan_s]

I can't stand CDs anymore. I used to have hundreds and hundreds of CDs. I have sold almost all except 25 CDs.

Now my music collection is just MP3s, all carefully tagged and neatly sorted in iTunes and iPod.

I borrow CDs from the local library from time to time; when I really need the pristine uncompressed CD audio for reference.

So quit buying CDs used or new.

As a bit of music geek as well, it's so much faster to find the song I want to listen to when refered to in an article. Gosh, holding a CD by the side and placing it into the drive - makes me shudder at how much pointless effort is required and how much time the drawers opening/closing and CD twirrling wastes.

I'll probably setup a networked RAID server that has nothing but MP3s. Like 300 gigs of it of all music that I would ever consider listening to.

I've tried the Napster and Rhapsody and they have done a similar thing - a huge music database. Their licensing is a little hokey, doesn't work with my networked devices attached to my receiver and it needs network access all the time.

Re:buy second hand?

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of collectivist borg talk is that? The market works by individuals thinking and doing what's in their own best interest. It cannot be planned. That's the main idea of free market economics: economic power is derived from the bottom up (from millions of free individuals) instead of the top down (from the power elite). And there's nothing wrong with that, as long as you operate on the principle of voluntary association. (For most people raised on government propaganda, the concept needs to be qualified.) There is absolutely nothing unethical or immoral about buying a used cd, or book, or lawn mower, or car, or house -- nor is there anything wrong with selling those things used.

So yeah, I buy used cds. 5-10 a month, in fact, and I pay an average of $7 per cd, usually from online vendors such as this one, who have an amazing selection and great quality.

One more thing, I'm damn proud of the fact that I buy used and not one cent goes to the RIAA or the state-corrupted music industry in general. When I want to patronize a band, I do it by going to live shows, or simply spreading the word about the band.

Re:buy second hand?

[tedshultz]

I was impressed to see that when they tell you you're paying two cents per MB, they in fact charge you exactly $.02 for every 1,048,576 (2^20) bytes, and they calculate it to the tenth of a penny

WOW, 7 sig figs! I find that the 2 cents they quote is based on a better exchange rate than citibank gets. I find my $10 actualy cost me $10.02. Additionaly, citbank charges me an extra $.30 for international exchange. This works out to be 2.064 cents for every MB. Still a great deal.

Re:buy second hand?

[mrchaotica]

But the other alternatives are supporting criminals in LA, or not buying music at all.

Using P2P is an alternative, too.

Re:buy second hand?

[Myopic]

you forgot the best part, which is that it's the same CDs for less money. i try not to pay more than five dollars for a CD, which is usually about what i consider fair for the music. for music i really covet, i'll pay a little more, but it really has been a heck of a long time since i paid full price for a brand new CD. in fact, i distinctly recall in the past paying $19 for a CD, and i would never, ever consider paying that much today. (the CD, however, was Aenima, so it was probably worth it.) my favorite place to buy is half.com because it's really easy but i'm sure there are lots of places.

Boycotting Sony is a great idea...

[Dante333]

Now that I have already got GTA: Liberty City Stories for my PSP.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[geekoid]

NOt to change your mind or anything, I would like to point out that at Sony's size, the different divisions have little or nothing to do with each other.
So the same people who make decisions for the music products are not the same people who make decisions at the playstation divisions .

From what I hear, there is some pretty intense inside fighting going on between the people who make mop3 players, and the music division.

[OT] Re:How to boycott?

[dada21]

They don't take American Express. I know it sounds corny, but as a business owner myself, American Express Open has bailed me out of millions of situations where I'd be bankrupt with the very temporary allowance.

I stopped using American Express about 2 months ago (I changed my cash flow projections in every aspect of my business life to be way undervalued), but I still won't do business with a company unless it says "American Express accepted!" in the window. Why Menard's won't do it is beyond me. Home Depot is always around the corner, and we're finally getting Lowe's here as well, in the Midwest.

The "Infection" Picture

[parasonic]

Looking at the "pretty picture," is that a crack in the polar ice cap?

Re:The "Infection" Picture

[Ginnungagap42]

180 degree line where the flat image was wrapped around the sphere...

Re:The "Infection" Picture

[Teun]

More interresting is the difference in infection between the Usa, Europe and Asia.

Yes, replace the 'usa' by 'europe' or 'asia' in http://www.doxpara.com/planetsony_usa.JPG.

The applicable phrase is...

[Engineer-Poet]

Hoist by their own petard (definition #1).

What do you bet that spyware/rootkits on music CDs disappear for the next few years?

Re:The applicable phrase is...

[mad.frog]

And here I had thought it was a crusty loaf of bread...

MS is marking it as spyware...

[orion41us]

"Microsoft has joined a growing group of security software vendors who are treating Sony BMG Music Entertainment's controversial Extended Copy Protection (XCP) copy protection software as a threat. Microsoft has announced it will begin treating the software as spyware and offering users tools to remove it, just as a Princeton University computer science researcher raised questions about a second Sony copy protection product."

From pcworld

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Doctor Crumb]

Um, it is exploiting flaws in *Microsoft's* products. Yes, sony was evil to do this, but Microsoft is clearly implicated in this whole mess. This is not a Sony rootkit running on Nintendo or on Linux; this is a sony rootkit exploiting holes in Microsoft Windows.

Sony messup is public now. No longer only on /.

[alphax45]

Especially when I saw this story on "CNN" today. You know it's gone "public" when it's on CNN! Sorry Sony, you messed up and a few million know about it now. Hopefully this will make a bigger part of the public think about DRM next time they reach in there wallet to buy the newest "CD".

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[zoloto]

Sad state of affairs? If Microsoft had engineered an operating system with the maximum security that allowed for performance and basically stayed out of the users way, this wouldn't be a problem. I'm not absolving Sony of their misdeeds or trying to refocus the attention, but let's not call it a "sad state of affairs" simply because MS is doing what they were supposed to do a long time ago. Despite their intentions, they're doing it.

They are still being weasels...

[Zocalo]

When the say "remove the rootkit CDs from the shelves" they mean just that; "rootkit CDs" specifically meaning those with "XCP-Aurora" installed and not with any other kind of DRM they are currently shipping. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they are even going to extend that to the specific version of "XCP-Aurora" people are complaining about on those CDs already known to contain it.

What a shame that Scott Adams' "Weasel Awards" for 2005 have already been awarded. There's always 2006 I suppose, but this will probably have been long since done and dusted by then... unless it's still churning though legal systems in the US and elsewhere of course.

Re:They are still being weasels...

[AltGrendel]

I like Userfriendly's take on it.

Re:They are still being weasels...

[nathanh]

Why do people keep linking to User Friendly. It is never funny.

No Refund

[rozthepimp]

From Sony regarding the XCP CD received today in an email: Sony has already addressed the issue of the security concerns via the Service Pack 2 update on our website. According to the terms of the EULA that you agreed to when first installing our software, you agreed to obtain and install any recommended updates. All major security vendors have and Microsoft have announced that the installation of the SP2 update removes their concerns over the original technology used on our CDs. Sony BMG does not offer a refund/return program for this product.

Re:No Refund

[Intron]

All well and good? I downloaded Service Pack 2 and looked at it:

strings -n 5 Update071105.exe |more

1.2.1
  deflate 1.2.1 Copyright 1995-2003 Jean-loup Gailly

Then I went and took a look at the zlib site http://www.zlib.net/

"zlib 1.2.3

July 18, 2005

Version 1.2.3 eliminates potential security vulnerabilities in zlib 1.2.1 and 1.2.2, so all users of those versions should upgrade immediately."

Sounds like Sony needs to trot back and have a whole nother look at those "security concerns"

Re:No Refund

[merchant_x]

Tell them you bought it as a gift for your 10 year old niece, who then went and stuck it in her computer. She's ten and can't enter into legally binding agreements and you yourself never agreed to anything. Then demand $500 to cover the mental trauma your poor niece experienced.

Re:No Refund

[ThePhin]

Sony BMG does not offer a refund/return program for this product.

And I do not offer repeat business to sleazeballs.

Re:No Refund

[Anonymous Coward]

regarding the installation of more sony software ...

I believe there is a maxim for this situation: Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

or for bush supporters:
"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on -- shame on you. Fool me -- you can't get fooled again."

Re:No Refund

[Tsiangkun]

$500 or $SMALL_CLAIMS_COURT_MAXIMUM.

I'd request costs covering the complete backup, reformatting, and recovery of your system, plus a full refund of the cost of the "Music" "CD".

Rootkits are serious business, and joe user shouldn't be expected to know how to remove one, nor should they be expected to rely on the company installing the rootkit for assistence in it's removal. Already Sony have advanced a plan based on insecure active-x technology, further placing their "customers" in harms way.

Even with their software, I'm not qualified to determine if the rootkit was actually removed, or merely had it's cloaking device changed and is active, or if it's been disabled and still resides on disk. Add this inspection cost to the list of requested $$$.

I think a $18 investment in a CD, could earn someone a decent pay out in a small claims court.

Re:No Refund

[Barrellina]

Is the EULA still valid? I'm sure an argument could be made that you were only agreeing to the installation of what they said they were installing. If what was installed wasn't what was described, then the terms of the EULA and your agreement to them would be moot since you were, in effect, agreeing to something else. I haven't bought Sony-BMG music for the last couple of years, but if I had one of these CDs I'd be looking a bit closer at the EULA and persuing the refund, and perhaps costs, if the EULA was void due to their deception.

There is another perspective...

[jd]

Can you imagine what other defects the DRM must have, in order for Microsoft to decide it is insecure?

Notice how Asia and South America...

[Anonymous Coward]

Notice how Asia, South America, Africa and Australia appear to be largely uneffected. Either Sony folks in those area are not so brain dead as to produce DRM ladden pseudo CDs or people in those respective areas are all listening to copies they burn from ripped MP3s...

Silver Lining

[happymedium]

DRM is poised to intrude on our lives even more in the form of the HD-DVD/Blu-ray copy protection, Windows Vista, and the digital TV broadcast flag... isn't it about time Slashdot's least favorite acronym (besides SCO perhaps) got some bad mainstream press?

This Sony incident could help convince consumers and businesses alike that intrusive DRM is a bad idea.

You know when...

[Ted_Bell111]

Microsoft goes against a form of DRM, that you have gone too far! And on another note, hasn't it been a bad year to be Sony (see Sony's attempt to dethrone iTunes and the iPod). Sorry I couldn't resist :)

mod parent up

[Mateo_LeFou]

Also, for fun someone should look up how much first 4 internet got for that contract. Then we'll see if it's more than 0.00001% of the damages Sony eventually has to pay.

Indeed

[samjam]

I suspect someone will lose a job over this. It's a shame, they probably don't "deserve" it, for just being stupid.

But I'm also glad Sony have really fouled things up and brought the whole issue of DRM a and it's limits to the international conciousness.

I also fear that this may provoke the more exploiting "copyright holders" to be more radical just as their legal tactics have provoked decentralized file sharing and possibly now the "darknet" type stuff.

Sam

Re:Indeed

[Ithika]

I suspect someone will lose a job over this. It's a shame, they probably don't "deserve" it, for just being stupid.

A shame?! They shouldn't just lose their job, there should be criminal prosecutions of corporate bosses for stuff like this. Anything that lets people who were directly responsible walk away with clean hands is just not right.

The only way to stop this kind of thing happening again is to hit the current perpetrators hard and fast. Corporate responsibility means nothing until the people in charge actually have something to fear. Until there's precedent for prosecutions (with extensive jail time: I hate white-collar crime) you can bet your ass this will happen again. The next company will just try to hide it better.

Re:How to boycott? Website

[saskboy]

I just found the website claiming to lead the charge http://www.boycottsony.us/ in the boycott.

I've been including information I think is important about the Sony case on my blog too since the story broke, but other sites have much more detail. I just try to break it down so the average joe knows what's going on if their brain turns off at acronyms like DRM.

Isn't there a word ...

[Daniel Dvorkin]

... for a political maneuver where you first propose something so outrageous that it's sure to get shot down, and then withdraw the proposal and advance something only slightly less outrageous? Like, let's say Senator Boughtandpaidfor introduces a bill requiring the death penalty for anyone who cracks a copy-protected CD, and when that gets the desired uproar, he says, "Oh, okay, let's compromise and make it fifty years in prison instead" -- and that bill passes because it's more "reasonable."

Which makes me wonder what Sony's got coming next.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[sconeu]

Yes. Unfortunately it's called "Business as Usual".

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[Starker_Kull]

Standard. (Unfortunately)

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[Fnkmaster]

It seems related to a behavioral finance effect calling anchoring, which I believe was part of Kahneman and Tversky's Nobel-winning work. From Wikipedia:

As a second example, according to Daniel Kahneman if an audience is asked firstly to memorise the last 4 digits of their social security number and then to estimate the number of physicians in New York the correlation between the two numbers is around 0.4--far beyond what would be expected by chance. The simple act of thinking of the first number strongly influences the second, even though there is no logical connection between them.

Basically, people often don't have any absolute framework for judging what is reasonable in a particular situation, so their mind subconsciously focuses or anchors on the first number they see, even if there is no rational basis or relationship between the number presented and the judgment call being asked for.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[Anonymous Coward]

for a political maneuver where you first propose something so outrageous that it's sure to get shot down, and then withdraw the proposal and advance something only slightly less outrageous?

Stalking Horse.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[hackstraw]

... for a political maneuver where you first propose something so outrageous that it's sure to get shot down, and then withdraw the proposal and advance something only slightly less outrageous?

If there is a word for it, I don't know it. But this is basic psychology. You do it with haggling for a price of something. The price is $300 for something, I'll give you $100, no way, how about $200, deal!

FWIW, this is how watergate happened.

Also, its a sales trick to show you the top of the line first, not the bottom of the line. People will spend more money that way vs the other way around.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[Daniel Dvorkin]

Stalking Horse.

Ah, that's it. Thanks.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[smellsofbikes]

There IS a term for this and I wish I could remember what it is. I ran into this idea in a communications course, where they talked about Watergate. Apparently Nixon originally was thought to oppose the idea, so Liddy and Haldeman proposed a scheme that involved helicopters and jet boats and cost millions of dollars, and Nixon said "no way" so they scaled it down a bit to just involve twelve people and complicated timing and stuff and Nixon wavered so they backed down to just a couple guys burglarizing the headquarters on foot and he went for it. Traditional bargaining also involves this psychology, particularly on the seller's side: I've been told "ask for 50% more than what you'll settle for." I think that they talk about this in Urey's book "Getting To Yes."

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[Anonymous Coward]

let's say Senator Boughtandpaidfor introduces a bill

You misspelled Hollings.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[swillden]

Stalking Horse.

Close, but not quite right. A stalking horse is the person who starts the discussion in order to benefit another. It's a partially accurate description for what we're discussing here in that a stalking horse is not intended to succeed but to prepare a path to success for another, but the term really doesn't require that the stalking horse be extreme, just incapable of succeeding (for any of a variety of reasons).

It may be the closest term, but I don't think it's quite right.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[Anonymous Coward]

The simple act of thinking of the first number strongly influences the second, even though there is no logical connection between them.

Or is it possible that most people that make guesses at such an arbitrary estimation request tend to hit somwhere halfway between 1 and 9,999 as thats probably how many physicians there actually are? Sound like a pretty dumb "proof" of human illogical dependence on previously memorized numbers in estimation.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[suwain_2]

I don't know the word you're looking for, but let's call it a Miers-Alito.

Re:Isn't there a word ...

[Myopic]

are you thinking of the phrase "floating a trial baloon"?

The real story...

[Schart]

Who knew there were so many Van Zandt fans in South America!

I mean... WOW! Those boys are on FI-YAAA!

Re:The real story...

[^me^]

I know that you were trying to partially be funny, but here's a (partial, I think) list of CDs with XCP on it... a few more than just Van Zant, no?

http://idiotabroad.com/2005/11/cds-affected-by-the -sony-bmg-spyware/

Job opening!

[Anonymous Coward]

see subject

Oops.

[AWhiteFlame]

You know you screwed something up when Microsoft comes in and calls it a threat to the security of windows.

Let's kill them with the cure...

[WalterODimm]

"From The Washington Post comes the news that serious security flaws have been found in the software that Sony is distributing to users who want to remove the Sony rootkit. The article says: 'Because of the way the tool is configured ... it allows any Web page that the user subsequently visits to download, install and run any code that it likes."

Irony.... thy name is sony.

Several outcomes...

[KD5YPT]

I will bet that Sony will be fine after this. I've yet to see any significant legal actions taken against any multi-billion and multi-national corporation could inflict any significant damage. But here's my 2 cents.

The pendulum swings

[eieken]

Maybe this will do something to further fair-use in the upcoming DRM battle for future Bluray, HD-DVD players.

Gosh there might be

[Mateo_LeFou]

Have you heard of this site called "Google"? I've found it a really quick way to find out if there's news about something-or-other

Boil a frog?

[WankersRevenge]

SONY's idea of boiling a frog is putting the said frog in a pot of water, then nuking the son of a bitch in a microwave. Methinks someone will be losing their job soon.

PS3

[Deanasc]

I wasn't planning on buying a Playstation 3 but now I'm definately not going to buy one just to boycot Sony for being dumbheaded. So there!

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[ergo98]

Um, it is exploiting flaws in *Microsoft's* products. Yes, sony was evil to do this, but Microsoft is clearly implicated in this whole mess. This is not a Sony rootkit running on Nintendo or on Linux; this is a sony rootkit exploiting holes in Microsoft Windows.

How is it exploiting a "hole"? If you're running as an admin, it installs itself at a system level - just like lots of other system utilities do. There is no hole here, apart from the fact that most users still run as admin (though don't go blaming Microsoft entirely for that. Even loved software like Winamp falls apart if you don't run as admin or do some manual ACL changes, because they didn't conform to even the basic rudiments of user-level security).

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[theStorminMormon]

It's a sad state of affairs when Microsoft has to come to the rescue and un-fsck your security blunders

I had to stifle my laughter when I read that (people frown at the solitary techie who laughs for no perceptible reason in his cubicle).

Please mod parent "fscking hilarious".

-stormin

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[bhirsch]

Not really. Sony could make one just as functional for any other OS. If users run the thing, it is hard to blame MS.

Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD = Sony vs Microsoft.

[bubulubugoth]

Blu Ray DRM is based upon java.
HD-DVD DRM is based upon iHD from MS.

HP is pressing Blu Ray to adopt iHD...

And now, Sony is having a big issue reinforcing they own content using they own DRM scheme...

And Microsoft could alledge better security with DRM as inherent part of the SO, obviously iHD and Windows Vista...

But seems Blu Ray has more advocates among the industry, and DRM is a concern...

Microsft now can use Sonys own mistake as a plus of their iHD OS built in DRM...

Bad move sony, very bad move...

And at the end, we all loose...

Re:Blu-Ray vs HD-DVD = Sony vs Microsoft.

[Anonymous Coward]

"Lose" has only one 'O' you polack nigger.

[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[dada21]

I'm not Marxist, in fact, as an AnCap I am the opposite of an Marxist.

I'm not young (31) and have been writing from a pro-market anarchism persepective for over 8 years.

Roads, bridges and schools can be much better built, maintained and managed by the free market of competition than by the force/coercion market created by government and the cronies of government.

Lincoln's War Between States was fought to create a mercantilistic country out of a free market country (not slavery as many people believe). Since the War, our country has slid into a really bad Warfare-Welfare State, focused on disposing the middle class workers of their income and giving it to the wealthy elite in control of the monopolistic use of force.

I study at last 40 hours a week the various documents that help me reinforce the views I hold dear to me. Slashdot is a great outlet for finding other people with similar beliefs who just don't know it, as well as getting a great peer review system that helps me find my mistakes. Even those on my "Foe" list give me some amazing insight into mistakes I make in my rants and recommendations.

If you're interested in why government is bad for roads, bridges and schools send me an e-mail.

Can't... type... reply... too... much...

[The I Shing]

Can't... type... reply... too... much... schadenfreude...

DRM Poster Child

[Anonymous Coward]

The question we should all be asking ourselves is "How do we make this incident the poster child for the anti-DRM movement?" We need to look for ways to make DRM synonymous with "Sony's Big Fuckup." When customers hear about copy protection, rights management and trusted computing, they need to be filled with visions of Sony compromising millions of computers.

Another Reasons

[Scurra UK]

Another reason why it's a bad day - The Times has just run a front page story pointing out that Sony is trying to force internet retailers out of business in an anti-competitive move to push up prices this Christmas for consumers in the UK....

I vote we do

[guardiangod]

this....

Disclaimer: In case those lawyers from Sony is not being work to death right now from all those demage lawsuit- I am joking.

Re:I vote we do

[dtfinch]

Remember to vote.

Re:I vote we do

[dtfinch]

I too often read the message body and forget to glance at the subject.

What's going to happen...

[mulicheng]

to the people who came up with this idea?

I'd be interested to find out when it does.

In related (Wired) news...

[Spy der Mann]

The rootkit infections turned out to be more than half a million.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[NanoGator]

" If Microsoft had engineered an operating system with the maximum security that allowed for performance and basically stayed out of the users way, this wouldn't be a problem."

Is that all? Well gee golly gosh, making an OS sounds almost as easy as making a web browser!

This is Good News...

[craznar]

Why... cause it demonstrates that there is still some lines that even the biggest company cannot cross.

I'm happy about that.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you misspelled Nintendo.

LOL

[olddotter]

ROTFL

For the love of $$$

[Anonymous Coward]

I wonder how much money Sony saved by adding DRM to their CDs.

Only one thing could make this worse

[erroneus]

A massive automated exploitation of all infected machines using the hole put in place there by the rootkit's installation.

Re:Only one thing could make this worse

[DarkProphet]

thats a really good idea. hope the skript kiddies get on this one and really much things up. maybe the exploit could just set the default browser home page to http://www.sonyjust0wn3dj00.com/ and explain to the end user why and how their machine was 0wn3d.

Think the DOJ will go easy on Sony then? ;-)

Re:MS is marking it as spyware..and they bou......

[Martix]

There not alltogether with that picture.
they did by a spyware company (forgot the name).

and on the whole, the thing with SONY's DRM they have not said anything bad or good about the whole affair

But then they want to also push there own DRM on everybody (VISTA aka LONGHORN)

my 2 cents

All well and good but...

[NVP_Radical_Dreamer]

Its all well and good that they are removing the CD's from the shelves and providing a half assed "removal" but I think they need to pay. Sony has shown that they will do whatever it takes to make sure that they dont lose a single penny to some pirate, even to the point of throwing out some pretty dangerous code and then sending out even more dangerous code to "fix" the problem.

It may be harsh to say, but they need to pay for the removal and cleanup of all affected PC's. They sure want harsh fines imposed on others, so why should they be any different. This is a case of "do as i say not as I do"

Re:All well and good but...

[MightyMartian]

Perhaps it's time for the corporate whores in Congress to consider that maybe the record companies are every bit as bad as the few people who give a damn about our rights have been telling them. What ought to happen is that Sony is prosecuted for intentionally damaging private property, and Congress ought to reopen the whole issue of digital rights management. Sony and its executives ought to be hit as hard as any pirate. That means fines of the same proportion as leveled against the average convicted pirate, and executives being tossed into prison. What will happen is, of course, that the corporate whores in Congress will, at best, go "tut tut" and continue sucking the fat corporate penises because the average American voter is, for all intentions and purposes, politically and socially retarded and unwilling to command their representatives immediately pass laws of substantial severity.

The ethical fix...

[wherrera]

...would be for Sony to enclose an autoloaded software package that would ask the user if they wanted to REMOVE their old rootkit when the new CD was inserted in the computer, and that FREE replacement CD's and future CD's for the next few years MUST contain the rootkit removal option.

(yes, yes, a fantasy. I know....)

How about Criminal Charges.

[Anonymous Coward]

If practically every kid who cracks into some network gets jail time; how about some criminal charges against whomever the idiot in Sony that approved this.

Seriously - if some company hires a hitman to do illegal stuff they get in trouble. Why can Sony hack my network without any repercusions.

Re:How about Criminal Charges.

[Anonymous Coward]

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

The skript kiddie, contrary to popular opinon, is a human being.

Sony, on the other hand, is a multi(b?)illion dollar multinational corporation.

Guess which one has more rights?
Guess which one gets more protections?

Re:How about Criminal Charges.

[VENONA]

Maybe not in the US, under this administration, but a probe has been ordered in Italy. See my post above.

Re:How about Criminal Charges.

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because the kid who cracks into networks isn't lawyerly enough to have them click "I Agree" to an EULA first.

Re:How about Criminal Charges.

[Duhavid]

So, hypothetically, all I have to do is put something on the doorstep that the
people in the house have to step over that says "by leaving the house, you grant
me right and title to enter the house and remove all goods I find to be of value,
for whatever end use I made make, including selling them for a profit. Further,
you indemnify me against injury while I am in your house, and hold me harmless
for any breakage incurred in the removal of goods and services. I reserve the
right to change and amend this agreement at any time, with or without notice
to you.".

3: execute!
4: profit!

Re:How about Criminal Charges.

[Anonymous Coward]

Sony Director Disqualification - Boardroom and executives disqualified. How to hurt them.

Pretty sure most countries have a law that means directors are ineligible for re-election if there is a criminal charge pending against them personally.

At the same time, Directors usually have to certify they have abided by all the laws of the land, and done nothing illegal (multiply by many subsididarys set up to lower tax)at annual report time. Post Enron, this duty of care is pretty serious.

This rootkit enables potential charges to be brought to bear, because signing off on a rootkit, is very questionable. Bringing charges, against incumbent directors would make them really sorry, and hit their wallets where it hurts.

Re:How about Criminal Charges.

[Alsee]

if some company hires a hitman to do illegal stuff they get in trouble

Can I come live in your universe? It sounds like a nice place.

-

In other news...

[Jesselnz]

If anyone is looking for a job, I hear sony's got some positions open in their music department.

Wow

[realmolo]

Sony really screwed the pooch on this one.

They actually got the Department of Homeland Security to denounce them. I knew it had to be good for something ;)

The great thing about all of this is that now that the Feds are aware of this evil DRM bullshit, they will start regulating it a little better. As it stands now, the DMCA basically give all the media companies "carte blanche" with regards to copy-protection schemes.

Re:Wow

[mopslik]

They actually got the Department of Homeland Security to denounce them.

If I recall correctly, the DoHS also blasted Microsoft about Internet Explorers' vulnerabilities, and IE still has an 80-90% usage rate. Depending on which poll you read, of course.

The one difference in this case, though, is that it's not a "mystical magical computer-thingy" issue. It's a CD issue. The public might actually respond to this one.

Record companies need to adapt

[Anonymous Coward]

OK, I'll confess it right here. I buy music over at All Of MP3. Now, I have felt guilty about this. In fact, once I get a job again, my plan was to buy all of the music I downloaded, either as CDs or as iTunes/Napster/whatever. However, I changed my mind when I found out about the Sony rootkit.

The fact of the matter is that most people who use file sharing networks feel that what they are doing is stealing. Most people would rather buy a legitimate copy of their music. This is why iTunes is making the record companies a lot of money; Apple certainly isn't making money off of it. The software and video game industry has had piracy since day one, and both industries remain very profitable.

I hope that the backlash caused by Sony's antics results in the record labels no longer treating their customers like criminals. When the record companies break their trust with their customers that way, people are more inclined to get their music from All of mp3 instead of iTunes or the record store.

While we're talking about music, I would like to dispel one myth: The myth that concerts is where musicians make their money. Thomas Dolby points out that "Touring loses money for most acts, until you get to the 200 stadiums a year (or five nights at the Garden) stage".

Re:Record companies need to adapt

[Anonymous Coward]

Why do you feel guilty about buying from allofmp3.com? I give my kids $10/month to spend there and it gets them a ton of non-drm'd music. I don't feel guilty.

Joe Random, hacker ..

[RedLaggedTeut]

Joe Random, hacker, reading slashdot:

rootkit.. bad
microsoft.. good
hacker.. head explodes

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[karmatic]

Just out of curiosity, have you read "The Machinery of Freedom"?

How long has XCP been around?

[SysKoll]

What I don't understand is this: XCP has been around for about a year. It's a rootkit. Its modifications in the Win32 vector table are glaringly obvious and thus detectable if you know what to look for. So why didn't the MS antivirus detect it previously? Or doesn't MS tool check for rootkits?

It could have a plus side :)

[craznar]

If they target Sony/BMG websites with the attack :)

Do I hear "Foot self in the shoot" anyone ?

Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Anonymous Coward]

From TFA: "Microsoft said it would remove ... copy-protection software

That's a clear DMCA violation.

If DVD John gets in trouble for less, surely whomever at Microsoft decided to do this should suffer the same.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[vwp]

It doesn't say that Microsoft will be circumventing the copy protection software. Just removing it from the PC. The CDs in question will still be copy protected.

Nice try.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[frieko]

Removing the DRM from the computer means that the CD can then be easily copied by that computer. This is like saying DVD-shrink is DMCA kosher because it doesn't modify the original DVD.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Anonymous Coward]

It doesn't say that Microsoft will be circumventing the copy protection software. Just removing it from the PC. The CDs in question will still be copy protected.

Nice try.

While that's true, the whole copy protection mechanism can be bypassed by holding down the SHIFT key when inserting CD. That is a clear DMCA violation by Microsoft. Yes it's silly, I know.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Surt]

Only if the copyright holder objects. Do you expect sony to object given the publicity in this case?

There will be no DMCA challenge of the titans based on this incident, unfortunately.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[harl]

The rootkit modifies Microsoft's product so that it no longer performs as they wrote it. Does the DMCA prevents them from changing their own product back to how they shipped it? That's seriously fucked up. This is a battle I'd love to see in court.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[kimvette]

Shouldn't public policy (e.g., removing an obvious security exploit) win out over any potential DMCA 'violation' - that is not even taking into account the copyright violations present in Sony's unwanted/unordered/defective 'product' not to mention the bad name Microsoft will take for Windows' allowing such an exploit to be installed in the first place (warranted rep or not - in this case not, IMHO).

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[joeybagadonuts]

Kaminsky downplayed MSFT's ability to lead the effort, but frankly they are in the best position to take action on this. They have the distribution channel to the greatest number of impacted systems. It wouldn't have to be through AntiSpyware - they could release a 2000/XP/2003 patch that specifically hunted this down and removed it or could bundle it into a Malicious Software Removal Tool marketing push -- http://www.microsoft.com/security/malwareremove/de fault.mspx

They could even blame Sony for any system crashes and ill effects from the system cleanups - a PR coup!

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm not mistaken, I believe Sony would be the one who would have to claim that Microsoft was violating the DMCA by removing their copy protection. The _last_ thing Sony wants to do right now is anything that will bring more attention to the situation, so I doubt strongly we'll see Sony v. Microsoft on this issue, at least.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[TheLinuxSRC]

Actually, I believe if you read the articles closely, you will see that MS is not removing the DRM functionality of the software. A subtle but important distinction.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Sloppy]

That's a clear DMCA violation.

No, it isn't. Sony's malware is not a "technological measure that effectively limits access" to the work, unless using their malware is required for accessing the work. That is, if you are able to play the music CD on a classic audio CD player, read the CD with cdparanoia, etc, then the CD simply doesn't really have access controls. The software in question is simply a bonus feature for MS Windows users, and only MS Windows users.

Still, it's a great idea, and your perverted thoughts make me like you. :-)

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference is, Sony isn't going to sue Microsoft for violating the DMCA. They want all the help they can get right now.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[HebrewToYou]

Please correct me if I am wrong...

...but didn't these "Compact Discs" also contain DRM for the Mac platform as well?

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[AFCArchvile]

By my count, Microsoft, Sophos, Symantec, and the Department of Homeland Security have "violated the DMCA".

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Anonymous Coward]

Supposedly, though it's not nearly as insidious on the Mac. Since there is no CD-Autorun functionality on the Mac (removed after it was used to spread viruses in OS 9), the user has to attempt to access the "extra" (non-audio) content on the CD. Many won't even know it's there, and of those who find it, many won't use it because it requires installing something. Some still will, though.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Em Adespoton]

I believe you're confusing your DRM software -- the software you're talking about is by SunnComm, and those audio CDs are still being distributed by Sony. This software might have its own legal issues, but not in the same class as the Sony RootKit.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[hazem]

That would be the case for normal copyright infringement, which is a civil case. But doesn't the DMCA provide for criminal prosecution? In that case, the government could make a case against Microsoft for violating the DMCA by circumventing Sony's DRM system. It would be the US Government vs. Microsoft, not Sony vs. Microsoft.

If I assault you and put you in the hospital, the DA can still make a case against me, even if you don't want charges pressed. Of course, your refusal to participate weakens the DA's case.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is, in fact, a somewhat clear DMCA violation. DMCA not only prohibits circumventing measures designed to prevent access, it also prohibits providing tools that circumvent measures designed to protect the exclusive rights given a copyright holder in section 106 (right to copy, first to market, etc). As I understand it, this rootkit is about controlling how many copies one can make, thus, providing a tool to circumvent the rootkit by deleting it is a DMCA violation.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Anonymous Coward]

Please don't call them Compact Discs, they're not CDs.

When Philips opened up the CD as a storage format part of the description of a compact disc was that it be a general standard, and all audio CDs would work the same on the same types of hardware.

The Sony rootkit issue is to do with "copyright protection enhanced CDs" or some other stupid newspeak name for a product. If you see something calling itself an audio CD, with the compact disc logo, from a reliable reputable label, it is still possible to have faith in it and not think it'll ruin your system.

And yes, you're right. There was a Mac .dmg on some of the shoddy unethical shit that Sony sold to unsuspecting customers.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[slumberer]

Except they're not removing the copy protection. They're removing the nasty code which hides the DRM code from casual observation. While this will make the DRM easier to remove it doesn't go so far to actually do so.

The MSNBC article says "we will add a detection and removal signature for the rootkit component of the XCP software to the Windows AntiSpyware beta". (my emphasis)

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[a.d.trick]

But if you can circumvent software, then the software obviouly is not required. In otherwords - I could argue that if I can break a "technological measure that effectively limits access" than it obviously isn't a "technological measure that effectively limits access" anymore an whooo, I'm free.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Sloppy]

Compare this to a CSS-protected DVD. With the DVD, descrambling CSS at some point in the process (either by using "naughty" software like DeCSS, or by having a Sony DVD player descramble it for you, and then recording the DVD player's output) is always required. You simply cannot access a CSS-protected DVD's plaintext, without addressing the CSS issue at some point. Thus, even if you are able to defeat the protection, the technological measure still "effectively limits access."

But with this CD, you can access the plaintext and make one billion copies of it, without ever bothering to go to the extra trouble of installing Sony's software.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[pv2b]

Actually, the fact that an optical music disc contains DRM software doesn't necessarilly mean that it's not a CD.

I believe that the CD standard specifically permits CD:s containing both data and audio tracks, and you could probably make a completely valid CD which would contain autorunning DRM malware.

That's of course assuming that the autorunning malware was the only anti-copying measure in place, and that they didn't also sabotage the TOC etc.

Re:Criminal charges against Microsoft too.

[Anonymous Coward]

No, removeing the auto-run software from the cd itself and burning a new copy would be a violation. I can add/remove anything i want from
my pc.

Buying CDs is unsafe...

[ncoder]

Download them from the net. It's much safer. ;)

Re:Buying CDs is unsafe...

[Anonymous Coward]

You jest. I've never downloaded a single song and I've always felt that while it wasn't criminal it was immoral.

I've changed my mind. Sony has destroyed any inhibitions I have against getting it for free from here on in. And I'm not kidding.

ISS

[Anonymous Coward]

ISS just released an alert, http://xforce.iss.net/xforce/alerts/id/208 Its for buffer overflows in the rootkit.

Holy shnikies!

[nxaccount]

Some guys over on IRC just hacked the Sony DRM and got it to run Linux! It's still in pre alpha, but I can see how running linux on this this thing could change the world.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[Billly Gates]

What does this have to do with the sony rootkit?

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Guppy06]

"I would like to point out that at Sony's size, the different divisions have little or nothing to do with each other."

They're associated well enough to have the name "SONY" branded on them. Good enough for me.

Sony - Accused of Price Fixing

[Ahnteis]

Adding to the list of stupid Sony things --
THE electrical giant Sony has been accused of price-fixing in an attempt to curb internet bargains and send online prices soaring, it emerged yesterday.

The firm is among up to five leading manufacturers which demand higher prices from internet retailers than they do from high street stores.

from:
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=2241992005

Ugh. Bad, bad Sony!

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[RsG]

>I study at last(sic) 40 hours a week the various documents that help me reinforce the views I hold dear to me. ...

Am I the only one who saw that as a disturbing statement? You spend 40 hours a week, which amounts to having a second job (I'm assuming that you're employed based on your previous statements) reinforcing your own point of view. I've met religious fanatics who don't spend that much time reading their religious scripture. Literally, you claim to be spending more time with whatever literature supports your views than a fundie does with a bible.

First off, if you wanted an informed opinion, wouldn't reading the opposition make more sense? If I want to know the full story about something, I find info from both sides, I don't just take the side I agree with as automatically infallable. Second, why the need to "reinforce" those things you already beleive? Sounds a bit too much like brainwashing for me - certainly if someone else was shoving their point of view down your throat that's the word I would use.

Sony infection map excludes most of Mexico

[digitaldc]

From this information we can deduce that:
A) most everyone in Mexico is aware of this rootkit problem
or
B) hardly anyone listens to Sony artists in Mexico

Darn

[Billly Gates]

I am a poor student and want to play wow free without paying. The rootkit is quite handy to hide hacks that would make it undetectable to blizzard.

Re:Darn

[^me^]

The exploit for WoW that takes advantage of the sony rootkit does *NOT* allow you to play for free. it is a 'bot' that plays your character automatically. The rootkit part is how it hides from WoW's active scanning of running processes.

all I can say is nice try.

Re:Darn

[Billly Gates]

Ok then ... its evil :-)

How bad is it?

[jav1231]

You know its bad when even Microsoft is targetting you as a security risk! 8o

Re:How bad is it?

[British]

Yes, Microsoft having to clean up after you, and releasing the 360 before the PS3(okay, the jury's out on that one), MS is surely doing a Nelson Muntz "HA HA!" to Sony here.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[VENONA]

" If Microsoft had engineered an operating system with the maximum security that allowed for performance and basically stayed out of the users way, this wouldn't be a problem."

They didn't even have to design for maximum security. In this case, they only needed to avoid doing something as brain damaged as basing Active-X security on code signing.

Analogy -- Why Neo will always be faster...

[3seas]

... the analogy here is that any overhead of copy protection take up computing cycles and slows down the matrix...

We have know for years and years that copy protection adds a level of complexity that only murphy truely loves... as it gives murphy more to play with and cause to fall...

What many have yet to undrstand is that this not needed constraint applies to IP protection schemes as well.... only the problem is in teh faqilure of eyesight of to many, to be able to so clearly see it for the damage it is doing.

I'm not against those responsible for creative and technical works benefiting from their work, but if things would just be allowed to move forward without riding the brakes, they would move forward fast enough that the overall social/economic statut oif the world would raise fast enough that the real reward is living in a time of far better value

Someday the patent system brakes will burn out.... and then in hindsight we all will know how foolish it was.

To kill DRM, make Joe Consumer Mad...

[Starker_Kull]

About the only way DRM will be tamed (I think, in the long run, it will be eliminated completely, but that will take people completely rethinking intellectual "property" as a lega concept) is if it intereferes or damages an average person's system. That is perhaps the biggest "problem" with DRM - its many failure modes usually screw you out of your content - or in this case, screw up your system. And it's a great, wonderful problem, because all we need are a few more screw-ups like this, and average people will start to associate "DRM" with "Sucks/Breaks" and avoid it like the plauge.

Go Sony! Do it again!

Re:To kill DRM, make Joe Consumer Mad...

[TheZorch]

"About the only way DRM will be tamed (I think, in the long run, it will be eliminated completely, but that will take people completely rethinking intellectual "property" as a lega concept) is if it intereferes or damages an average person's system. That is perhaps the biggest "problem" with DRM - its many failure modes usually screw you out of your content - or in this case, screw up your system. And it's a great, wonderful problem, because all we need are a few more screw-ups like this, and average people will start to associate "DRM" with "Sucks/Breaks" and avoid it like the plauge."

Ahmen to that brother!

Business seem to forget that their revenue comes from us consumers, and if they make us mad we'll stop buying from them. The almighty dollar speaks with a big voice my friends. When products with DRM start to loose money that is when you'll see the technology start to disappear. They have to listen to us or they won't get our business, plain and simple.

Re:To kill DRM, make Joe Consumer Mad...

[Anonymous Coward]

Big companies, who drive IP rights, have more money than the average person, who doesn't like IP rights. Therefore, IP will never go away.

Re:To kill DRM, make Joe Consumer Mad...

[808140]

Big companies, who sell castor oil, have more money than the average person, who doesn't like castor oil. Therefore, castor oil will never go away.

Except it did, didn't it? People realized that castor oil just tasted revoltingly bad and wasn't even good for you, despite what it says on the bottle. Having a lot of money certainly means that you can fight things for longer, but make no mistake -- businesses are dependent on consumers for their income. Piss off consumers enough, and their industry will simply disappear, or become irrelevant. I'm sure you can still buy castor oil, somewhere. But it doesn't matter. The only place we're ever exposed to it now is in Mark Twain novels.

Ultimately, the average consumer will not buy DRM'd products if he believes they will interfere with his ability to enjoy that product. Copy protection schemes have been around for a long time -- they used to have them on some VHS tapes, too -- but they simply never became invasive because that would royally piss off the consumer.

The thing about DRM is that it really will royally piss off the consumer. This isn't about keeping geeks (a tiny segment of the population) from playing DVDs on Linux. This is about the average consumer being unable to make a mix tape (CD, whatever) for his car or put music on his iPod. They will care. A lot. Don't be so cynical. This Sony thing is proof.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Anonymous Coward]

>I would like to point out that at Sony's size, the different divisions have little or nothing to do with each other.

As you imply, it won't change anyone's mind... but ALL DIVISIONS of Sony answer to the stockholders.
Someone at Sony will get buttfucked for this.

Rootkit detection

[Anthony]

Did any of the PC personal firewalls or Virus scanners pick this up? If not are they ineffective or in cahoots?

Sony & Microsoft compete in DRM tech.

[Anonymous Coward]

I assume the other "defect" Sony DRM has is that it competes with Microsoft's DRM technologies.

Microsoft killing the Sony DRM is really scary from an anti-trust & DMCA violation point of view.

Here, you have a convicted monopoly destroying the security product of a competitor. And people are saying this is a good thing?

Re: Bad Day To Be Sony

[Trailer Trash]

It's an even worse day for first4internet. Their business just got flushed, and they probably have a pack of Sony lawyers negotiating for their firstborn about now.

What next?

[dtfinch]

Will they replace the infected CD's? Compensate users? I suppose a class action suit will someday decide the latter, but most of it will go to the lawyers.

Re:What next?

[planetoid]

I'd prefer to see those responsible put behind bars, for at least two or three years. Every other virus writer, rootkit-using hacker, or other species of malicious computer-diseaser has gone to jail for the same crime -- there's no reason this should be treated any different.

Rootkit?

[Lurk3r]

I have no idea what a rootkit is, why should I care about it?

Re:Rootkit?

[KD5YPT]

Quoted from Wikipedia

"A rootkit is a set of software tools frequently used by a third party (usually an intruder) after gaining access to a computer system. These tools are intended to conceal running processes, files or system data, which helps an intruder maintain access to a system without the user's knowledge."

In simpler terms, it's a program that tries to hide itself and keep running without you knowing it.

Re:Rootkit?

[daremonai]

I have no idea what a rootkit is, why should I care about it?

You're right, you shouldn't worry about that rootkit of yours. I can take care of it from here. Anything else you want me to remove while I'm at it?

Re:Rootkit?

[Lurk3r]

I guess no one is following this story very closely...

From the register,

The President of Sony BMG's global digital business division Thomas Hesse has weighed into the storm over the 'rootkit'-style copy restriction software introduced on some recent audio CDs.

Sony's software installs itself by stealth, conceals itself, then intercepts low level Windows systems calls. Removing it causes the CD drive to be rendered inoperable. The only cure is to reformat the disk and reinstall Windows.

What responsibility did Hesse feel for the havoc his CDs had caused?

"Most people, I think, don't even know what a rootkit is, so why should they care about it?" he huffed.

I think we can take that as: "No responsibility at all."

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/11/09/sony_drm_w ho_cares/

Just MHO

[Anonymous Coward]

How do those who are active boycotters stick to it? Do you actively pursue telling others, or is it just a "one person, one dollar, one vote" kind of life lead?

Good question.

Work on the assumption that you are going it alone but don't be afraid to have an impact. When your friends ask your advice (and, like it or not, they will) tell them. Don't get evangelical--just point out how that companies policies can or might affect them. In Sony's case it is pretty easy: the best one can say about Sony is that they used to be great. Sony's big ticket items in particular are shoddy compared to what they used to be: I don't know anyone who has bought a Sony TV, stereo or computer in the last five years and been completely satisfied with it. They are also establishing a strong tradition of anti-customer business practices and technologies. Your friends aren't stupid, they can put the dots together and decide what a Sony TV is likely to mean in terms of being able to fully enjoy the next generation of media.

For media, it is a lot harder. Shady businesses with dodgy products don't hesitate to hide behind dozens of brands and Sony/BMG is no exception. The best bet for music is to just assume that all media companies are Sony unless you know otherwise.

Don't be afraid to use the influence you have. If you know lawyers, ask them about the legal ramifications. If you know record store owners, ask how it impacts them. Ditto for artists, politicians and systems architects. Don't tell them, let them tell you. What's more important than the immediate answer is to let them mull on the question.

Finally, don't be afraid to discuss this around the water cooler. Again, don't get evangelical..just express your amusement and disbelief at Sony's actions. You would be surprised what you learn.

Quick!

[pegr]

They're yanking them from the shelves? Quick! Go get one so you can be harmed!*

(* "In a very real, and legally binding sense.")

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[faragon]

WTF? Dind't Sony's size should mean higher responsability too?

When you use your **put your supercorporation name here** name to promote tons of bussines subdivisions, you also have to keep a quite high grade of responsability to take care about your "good name" (!)

Was the construction of this software illegal?

[threaded]

Was not the software used by Sony written by a UK limited company? Is not the commissioning and construction of such software illegal under UK law? (Computer Misuse Act 1990)

Re:Was the construction of this software illegal?

[NullProg]

Don't ask that question here. Ask your MP. I told my congress critter to either Drill ANWR or Sony, I don't care which :)

Enjoy,

Re:Was the construction of this software illegal?

[Tankko]

I told my congress critter to either

Problem is, your congressman has an email address that ends with @sony.com.

Re:Was the construction of this software illegal?

[NullProg]

Problem is, your congressman has an email address that ends with @sony.com.


Only in Japan does a congress critter get owned by Sony. Go browse opensecrets.org sometime.
http://www.opensecrets.org/

Enjoy.

Re:Was the construction of this software illegal?

[NullProg]

Oops.

Sony contributions come under Soft Money. http://www.opensecrets.org/softmoney/softcomp1.asp ?txtName=Sony

2.5 Million isn't enough to get them off the hook though.

Enjoy.

Re:Was the construction of this software illegal?

[KitesWorld]

Construction? Nope. You can write any software you want to - the Computers Misuse Act 1990 was designed with research in mind, and is fairly lax (whilst at the same time being broad enough to catch most offenses, SPAM aside.)

What *was* illegal was actually deploying such software without the permission of the computer owners (modifying their software setup, violation of section 1) - and according to the wording of the CMA, it doesn't matter where in the world it happens.

Which brings us to the question : Is F4I liable for Sony's use/misuse of their software? I'm not sure what the answer to that question is. On the one hand, F4I knew that this is what the software was going to be used for, so you could easily argue conspiracy. On the other hand, you can say the same thing about the arms industry, yet they've managed to avoid any litigation from the government. Bieng a small body that doesn't have any ties to the government, I'd imagine the conspiracy card would be played.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[colinrichardday]

Does Nintendo make PS3?

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[tate-o]

"the different divisions have little or nothing to do with each other."

except being owned by the same shareholders. It is the shareholders (read: owners) of the company as a whole that have to be hurt if the company's practices are going to change.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Rude Turnip]

Let's look at this from the stockholder's point of view, as well as the customer's. If that type of conflict of interest exists between Sony's divisions, then that is telling me that management is *not* maximising shareholder value because the music division is harming the Playstation division by reducing the utility of the Playstation console.

That tells me that the only way to increase shareholder value is to break Sony into at least two companies: the entertainment division and the electronics division. Each division will then float on its own merits without impeding the other.

In a nutshell, we can add Sony's own *shareholders* to the list of people that are getting screwed by the management. My prediction? Look for a shareholder suit against the Board of Directors within 3 years to break Sony into two companies.

Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[Daedala]

These CDs have been out since mid-2004, according to Sony. Why hasn't this been noticed? Were they all bought off?

This is what really disturbs me. Not "What was Sony thinking?" -- businesses can be really stupid. Not "How could they do this?" -- businesses can be really evil. Shit happens. Get over it. Bad security happens, whatever.

However, I did have some trust (not much, but some) for the anti-malware establishment. I'm in infosec; I believe that even in the biggest and stupidest infosec company, there will be people with the hackerish instincts (i.e. lower-than-average sense of self-preservation) to blow the whistle. However, the failure of all the big anti-whatever companies to notice and/or do anything about this, with full year of lead time, demonstrates that they are incompetent at best, unethical at worst.

I don't care, personally; I use a Mac. It's not a security panacea but it's a pretty darn good line of defense. Professionally, however, I feel downright ill.

Kudos to F-Secure and Sysinternals. Where the hell were the rest of them?

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically; we didn't actually notice that XCP was worse than Sunncomm mediamax, and we have autorun turned off anyway; sort of assumed it was the same kind of deal; wasn't really until Mark blew the whistle that we were like, "they did THIS? kernel mode?! holy cow, even vx2 never tried that...". We're only human. :)

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[bhima]

You should care, this affects us too! The Sony CDs have Mac Malware as well!

Perhaps it's time to install Clam (which I just did) and then call Jay Beale and ask him him how Bastille for OS X is coming along.

I have no idea, is there a malware app like addaware for OS X?

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[tktk]

These CDs have been out since mid-2004, according to Sony. Why hasn't this been noticed? Were they all bought off?

Looking at the list of artists the DRM affects, I'm surprised it was noticed at all. Course, I am biased, I stopped regularly buying CD's about 10 years ago. Now I buy CD's only if I'm at a store, and really bored.

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[Daedala]

The Sony Mac malware, as far as I can tell, required the user to look at the CD in Finder, double-click Start.app, and provide the administrator username and password. This is too much like work, especially since all I do with audio CDs is open iTunes, ping Gracenote (-- am pathetic traitor, conceded), and rip the CD to mp3. I doubt many Mac users go looking for the data track of an audio CD so they can install random unexplained Start.apps.

I may be wrong in my characterization of the Mac version. I haven't seen it. But that's what the interwebs tell me.

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[bhima]

I hear you and I'm glad my Mum & my sisters don't know their admin passwords... still it's important that rootkit detectors and such things be developed for the mac.

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[Anonymous Coward]

> Why hasn't this been noticed? Were they all bought off?

Maybe not "bought off" but Symantec & co. were "made aware" of it and "worked with" if I remember the press releases accurately.

In short, they were convinced *somehow* not to detect it as the rootkit it is.

Which makes you wonder if there are any flaws in this detection which could become fodder for further vulnerabilities?

Mind reading [?] captcha: protests

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[whyner79]

These CDs have been out since mid-2004, according to Sony. Why hasn't this been noticed? Were they all bought off?

It's getting a whole lot less fun to shop for entertainment in this brave new digital world. If this SONY exploit has escaped notice for the past year and a half, doesn't it make you wonder what other computer atrocities are being perpetuated in the name of DRM right now? Anyone else for the creation of an Analog Underground ?

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[Anonymous Coward]

Basically; we didn't actually notice that XCP was worse than Sunncomm mediamax

So you thought it was spyware rather than a security vulnerability. That doesn't explain why it isn't detected.

Re:Where the hell were the anti-malware vendors?

[MooseTick]

"I'm in infosec...personally; I use a Mac"

How can you be in infosec and use a Mac? Isn't the majority of your work dealing with MS products? Don't you know how to make XP secure? It is possible and would think you would be capable.

Quite the reverse

[Vainglorious Coward]

I would like to point out that at Sony's size, the different divisions have little or nothing to do with each other. So the same people who make decisions for the music products are not the same people who make decisions at the playstation divisions . From what I hear, there is some pretty intense inside fighting going on between the people who make mop3 players, and the music division.

That sounds to me like more reason to boycott, not less - the impact is not compartmentalised, but spreads across their entire business. It also gives ammunition to those on the inside who are fighting against the shenanigans. Sony need to get the message that their actions don't just do damage to their CD sales business, they also create a serious dent in the Sony "brand" as a whole.

Re:Quite the reverse

[615]

It also gives ammunition to those on the inside who are fighting against the shenanigans.

Heh, and when the money gets tight, guess who'll be the first to go? Cutbacks!

Re:Quite the reverse

[Vainglorious Coward]

Heh, and when the money gets tight, guess who'll be the first to go?

In a sane world, those getting the chop would be the ones whose poor decisions cost the company so much (but I am unable to argue with conviction that we actually live in such a world).

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Lord_Dweomer]

Not only that, but Sony has a documented history of legal action BETWEEN DIVISION! What kind of idiotic President lets its divisions sue each other?

What does "Pull it from the Shelf" mean exactly?

[Mateo_LeFou]

I can still order some of the CDs from Amazon. Anyone know the process?

running for governor..

[tomcres]

He's going to be running for governor, and is already widely considered to be the leading candidate. Something like this would only be another feather in his consumer protection cap, but it will only help him more. Honestly, the excellent consumer rights laws we have on the books here and having an AG that aggressively defends those rights are really the only reasons I still have for living in New York (that and the fact that it's so ridiculously expensive, that if I ever left I'd never have enough money to return)..

Are you ALLOWED to remove it?

[calvinsdad]

Wouldn't that violate the DMCA? It is, after all, copy protection software. Heh heh...

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Anonymous Coward]

But if their overall corporate structure allowed this out the door in one section, is it such a stretch to believe it would be allowed out of the other departments?

A good company will have CORPORATE-WIDE QA policies and ethics (yes, ethics - even if they're not up to what most individuals have, at least a few guidelines.)

This is not a rootkit.

[Woodie]

OK -

I've had it up to here with people calling this a rootkit. Does it actually have any code that I can run to gain root on a system of my choosing? Can I run it's scripts against a network of computers in an attempt to find vulnerable systems, root them, and then hide my tracks?

NO.

What it uses is a stupid trick - similar to those used by rootkits to hide their tracks. Oooh looky looky, it puts in a little nugget so that files whose names start with $sys$ become invisible. Yeah that sucks. People used to get all bent outta shape when someone used the "hidden" flag on DOS and Windows to hide important files for their software installation. And yet somehow that wasn't called a "rootkit".

It's unable to spread itself via a network (so it's not a worm, or virus). It's at worst, bundled spyware on CD-ROMs; spyware which puts in place a mechanism that can easily be misused by clever worm, rootkit, and virus writers. It itself is not a rootkit.

Here at /. everyone should be capable of distinguishing between a rootkit and a "rootkit" - further references to the Sony fiasco should use the quoted version as in Sony's "rootkit".

I don't disagree that Sony's done something wrong - but this is no rootkit.

Re:This is not a rootkit.

[icydog]

Why are you comparing Sony's rootkit to the hidden flag in Windows/DOS? On modern systems, that bit barely does anything at all. If you set Explorer to show hidden files, then hidden files behave basically the same as unhidden files. If you do dir /a, you will see the hidden files. When you execute a command on hidden files, no external program is redirecting system calls, causing your OS to behave in nonstandard ways. What makes this Sony thing a rootkit is that standard system calls don't work as usual on $sys$anything. If you try to view these files in Explorer, you get nothing. If you do dir /a, you get nothing. It's a rootkit because it hijacks standard system calls to avoid detection.

Re:This is not a rootkit.

[VENONA]

You are correct. It is not a rootkit. But not for the reason you stated. If it makes you feel any better, icydog and bluGill didn't get it right, either. The term is from Unix, and I'm a Unix/Linux security guy, so I'm going to stay in that context: what rootkit really means.

Say you've just rooted a system. In order, you want to 1) hide your presence, and 2) make sure you have a way back in if 1) fails.

To hide your presence, you do things like clean log files, and install Trojaned versions of various system tools, such as the 'ps' process lister and the 'ls' file lister. Maybe you don't stop with Trojans. Maybe you load kernel modules, and hook system calls. That isn't a requirement for a rootkit, though. It's a technique. Nor is it a requirement to include a replication mechanism, which would tend to give you away. This isn't a worm, it's a means of hiding yourself and maintaining access.

What you do on the system is then up to you. Maybe you're attempting to compromise other systems, but that's not a requirement, either. Maybe you only wanted this machine because it has huge disk capacity or something. Maybe you don't want it for anything at the moment, and are just checking it's resources and their usage patterns, to determine how you might best employ it in future, without revealing yourself.

Specific attack tools, etc., are not part of the definition, though you definitely have a means of hiding them. Or pretty much anything else. You have a way back in if the original security vulnerability is patched.

You are now the worst nightmare of many sysadmins of business and government installations (hosts + network). Many of these guys would actually much rather you did launch a worm or something. Then you're findable.

It gets much deeper than this (it's a career in itself)--but the two requirements are those above. Sony's DRM software didn't provide a way back in. It was a screwup of epic proportions, and the first piece of mallware (Backdoor.IRC.Synd.A) known to be leveraging it was found in a spam message on the 9th.

But that's an IRC backdoor, meaning the system will most likely become part of a Botnet. Again, easier to find. And, again, that remote access component is not part of Sony's DRM screwup.

I one or another /. post about this, someone recommended double-quoting rootkit. He or she was dead-on.

Re:This is not a rootkit.

[Anonymous Coward]

So why don't you consider this to be a rootkit?

The attacker (Sony) has managed through social engineering to gain administrator access to a Windows machine. The attacker has used this opportunity to hide their presence and to maintain their control over the machine. Is your objection that they have given themselves no form of network access, just left their bots to interfere, or is it that this is Windows instead of Unix?

Re:This is not a rootkit.

[VENONA]

Everything I've seen says that all communication involving your newly-hosed machine is outgoing--the phone home bit. I'm not aware of anyone having found any way that Sony employees or any automated Sony software can gain remote admin access. In fact, the EULA says that *you* have to keep the software updated, not that you had to allow Sony to do it remotely. Though it *is* tough to have any faith in that EULA, I'd think that if any listener had been found (particularly if it circumvented XP's SP2 firewall, and it would need that capability to be at all reliable, unless it used something like IRC) the hue and cry would rightfully have been even greater.

I haven't seen anything about the phone-home capability being anything beyond reporting (which is quite sufficiently horrible, by itself). Going further than this would be pretty extreme, even given what Sony's already done. Remember the furor over MS software activation, and phoning home? MS never attempted to delete pirated software, etc. I suspect they'd love to have done it. But the consequences of a coding error leading to failure to recognize a valid product key, or something of that nature, would have been huge. I'm thinking it's probably the same with Sony. If you are anyone has evidence to the contrary, I hope it gets out to a very large audience, ASAP.

Or perhaps you were referring to the botnet reference I made? If so, that's about spam-borne malware that joins the #sony channel on one of five hardcoded IRC servers. It's not something from Sony. It's just random Bad Guys leveraging Sony's, er, well, 'error' doesn't quite cover something of this magnitude.

So far as this being on Windows v. Unix/Linux, I think the generic term 'rootkit' is good enough. No complaints there. 'Adminkit' sounds a bit hokey.

What does concern me is that rootkits are relatively new in the Win world, having gotten their start in the Unix world. While they're rapidly moving into the Win world, they're still less common. Certainly this is the largest splash they've made in the popular press, and it isn't even a rootkit!

Given that relative newness, Win people are likely to have less experience with what actually constitutes a rootkit, the exact nature of the threat, best defense practices, etc. The way to start the learning process is *not* with an incorrect definition what that the thing even *is*.

Starting like that would seem a good way to end up with two different, mutually exclusive definitions, making life that much tougher for security folk who already have quite a bit on their plates. If you're not part of that world, you would not believe how many hours go into trying to keep up with all the research papers, security alerts, white papers written in vendor-speak (these guys often attempt to redefine things on the fly), etc.

Confusion over terms is the last thing we need.

For the people by the people

[PacketScan]

For the People by the people. That is what i grew up believing. As i grew older i started to realize the statement was a bunch of hogwash. The Riaa and Mpaa can get legistantion passed to go after xyz because he copied his cousins cd.. How about some legislation to protect the People from OVER zealious Copyright/ patent holders like sony. From Sony's actions it is evident that we need something in place and now. Before every computer owning cd purchaser get's owned by a hacker utilizing sonys drm software. If first 4 internet hasn't closed their doors... They better the lawsuits are coming and they want blood.

It's MY computer... and I have rules also

[Anonymous Coward]

I expect ANY program that runs in MY computer to follow specific rules when I allow it to live and run on my system.

I don't mind copy protected software or CD's as long as it don't "plant nasty eggs" in my system, or violate my security by forking "root" access. I will NEVER allow any program to run at that level, except when it's a store bought program and needs root to install. But to hear a CD, and allow that CD to "root" by system is going way too far... SHAME ON SONY... SHAME ON ANY COMPANY THAT SECRETLY ROOTS MY MACHINE WITHOUT MY PERMISSION...

I Think we all should by boycott sony... I live here in the heart of the entertainment industry (LA area), and am "exposed" to a lot of entertainment types from all levels, and even they have totally condemed SONY for their greedy practices.

j

"CD" logo?

[jasongetsdown]

whats with the CD logo? Are discs without it unreliable?

Re:"CD" logo?

[kosmicki]

It mean it follows the standards set by Philips, the "Red Book". The standards exclude the use of any DRM. Philips and Sony invented it, but Philips controls the logo.

Quoth Wikipedia: "Philips is responsible for the licensing program of the intellectual property pertinent to the Compact Disc including the "Compact Disc Digital Audio" logo that appears on the disc."

More Wikipedia: "The Red Book audio specification does not include any copy protection mechanism. Ripping is the process by which the contents of an audio disc is copied out verbatim to a duplicate disc or re-encoded into some other format, such as MP3.

Starting in early 2002, attempts were made by record companies to market "copy-protected" compact discs. Some of these deliberately introduced error patterns into audio tracks severe enough to defeat the error-correcting code (and hence defeat most CD-ROM drives attempting to copy the tracks as data), but not so disruptive as to prevent interpolation from working (hence allowing the same tracks to be played in audio mode without overly affecting fidelity).

Another copy protection method places a data track (usually containing bonus software for computer users) at the end of the disc and gives it an invalid size in the disc's table of contents. This is intended to prevent the data track from being ripped, but can be defeated by ignoring the table of contents and reading the disc sector by sector.

Philips has stated that such discs are not permitted to bear the trademarked Compact Disc Digital Audio logo because they violate the Red Book specification. It also seems likely that Philips' new models of CD recorders will be designed to be able to record from these "protected" discs. However, there has been great public outcry over copy-protected discs because many see it as a threat to fair use."

Re:"CD" logo?

[The boojum]

I believe the grand parent was referring to Philips' position of refusing to license their CD-DA logo to discs that don't conform to the Red Book standard. If the logo is absent from the disc, this suggest that it's in non-conformance, likely due to DRM. Even if the logo is present, however, that's no guarantee that it is DRM free, but the chances are better if the logo is there.

Re:"CD" logo?

[J_Darnley]

A disc with audio data can only display the Compact Disc logo if it conforms to the Red Book standard introduced by Philips and Sony. If it does not conform to it physically or digitally, i.e. the data on it, it cannot display the CD/CDDA logo. If you only buy ones with this logo you can be guaranteed of the lack of copy protection on the disc.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[Omestes]

Second post of yours I stumbled across this week.

Both of which were OT, and both of which were rife with pure opinionated, insubstantial claims. A word of advice, if you MUST break into rants, please try to keep them on topic, and please try to substantiate you claims, instead of leaving your extreme minority views as some form of given. The burden of proof is on you, since most people dismiss those claims as ravings.

BTW, corporations have no reason to build anything for anyone, since people don't matter. Making people happy is okay, as long as it doesn't cost to much. Thus corporations have an inspiration towards mediocracy, where we keep 'em happy enough to come back, but no more.

Hey Sony...

[Anonymous Coward]

Would you like some bacon, sausage, or toast to go with that egg on your face?

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[anthonyclark]

I used to work at Sony back in the UK. The divisions are set up semi-autonomously, the thinking being that competition is good for innovation. Problem is, anything you think of that slightly invades the 'territory' of a more politically powerful division will be denied funding or just cancelled without explanation.

Bitter? Why yes I am, thank you for asking.

I worked project support for a great team of engineers who had some amazing ideas way ahead of their time. Can they use PS2 hardware? Write DVD related software? Other video related stuff? Nope. All because of inter-division competition. (I was intentionally vague on the those project descriptions) Then there's the snobby attitude towards software; once a project I worked on was forced to use a very expensive piece of hardware to do something they were already doing in software. Quelle Suprise, Sony couldn't sell the software and eventually the project was canned.

I really can't believe Sony has survived into the 21st century.

Half a million networks?

[NIK282000]

But the RIAA told me that because of file sharing no one bought new CDs any more. Im confused! ;)

Bad Day To Be Sony?

[thomasa]

Bad Day To Be Sony????

I'd put up with it. 60 billion dollars in revenue last year.
(from their web page - 7,159,600 million yen)

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[MBraynard]

I am guessing he is on the faculty/staff of the Ludwig von Mises Institute.

Excellent

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Blockquoth the AC:

That's a clear DMCA violation.

Let's hope so. With a bit of luck, this case will demonstrate the idiocy of both draconian copy protection mechanisms and draconian anti-copying laws. If it becomes Sony vs. Microsoft, there will be a big, high profile case with both sides sending zillions of lawyers at each other and zillions of lobbyists at the government, ultimately with no winning option for either side since any outcome will hurt their corporate interests in the longer term even as it protects them in the short term. The government can't suck up to both parties forever, and public opinion is bound to sway against things like the DMCA, DRM, and so on the longer it goes on.

Re:Excellent

[bizitch]

Great - now how do we lobby a district attorney to go after Sony?

Who's the doochebag that went after DVD Jon? - Lets melt his phone lines until he knuckles under!

Re:Excellent

[VATechTigger]

Perhaps they will get into it in the courts. Microsoft is probably drooling at the chance to screw their xbox rival to the wall....

Re:Excellent

[Em Adespoton]

Of course, this won't really matter, as the court case will go on for the next 30 years, by which point the outcome will be meaningless as various new bits of statute law will have already been created to deal with such situations. Eventually Sony and MSFT will only have one junior lawyer on the case each, and it won't be covered by popular media at all.

Re:Excellent

[Mad_Rain]

The government can't suck up to both parties forever

I believe you underestimate the federal government.

Re:Excellent

[StikyPad]

More importantly, it will never happen in the first place. Suing another company for fixing your gaping security hole would lose in the most important court for a manufacturer of consumer goods; that of public opinion.

Re:Excellent

[Anonymous Coward]

If it becomes Sony vs. Microsoft, there will be a big, high profile case with both sides sending zillions of lawyers at each other and zillions of lobbyists at the government,
 
... plus Slashdot would be unreadable due the all the bootlick shills that push their bosses agenda here.

Boycott? Why not picket?

[dbc]

Whump up some flyers. Be nice, list just the verifiable facts now, or just use major news source clippings. Brush up on "peaceful assembly" law and so forth, and hand out your flyers in front of Sony retailers.

A picket sign quoting Homeland Security officials might be fun to carry around :-)

I agree! Throw the Sony execs in Jail!

[hpulley]

Why reserve jail for just script kiddies?

Luckily my tastes in music do not run parallel to the crap Sony pushes these days. I ran the rootkit remover and was pleased to see there was nothing to uninstall. But can I trust it? Hmm....

Multi-Billion Dollar Lawsuit anyone!?

[GecKo213]

I love how they fine individual bad guys/hackers/script kiddies who create and spread viruses trojans etc depending on how many computers they infected and the loss of time money. I hope Sony get's hit with a HUGE Fine! They deserve it! They compromised security of my personal info stored on my PCs and also opened me up to a miriad of other nasty Internet problems. Let Sony BURN! They make more money than they know what to do with anyway! I say pay it back to the people that they harmed with their damn RootKit! I pride myself of having a neatly secured and locked down network and unfortunately had a rather large hole or 5 punched in it by Sony and their Damn Root Kit. Where can I add my name to a Class Action suit against them? Someone let me know and if there's not one yet I'll be Damned if I'm not the first in line to start the filing process!

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[olddotter]

You are right that the divisions have little to do with each other. However if a very vocal boycot makes the person at the top realize that the music division is costing ALL other divisions money, then the boycot will decide who wins that infighting between hardware and music (or movies).

Years ago Eric R. gave a talk at the local LUG where he described DRM as the single biggest threat to OSS, because you can't control DRM if there are open general purpose computers. Or that was his arguement, anyway. His said Sony will make more money selling hardware to pirate their content than they will from selling their content in a pirate free environment.

Well, lets get this straight...

[Auraiken]

DVD John is an individual. Microsoft is a corporation. It's easier to target DVD John for such things because it's not like he has a lot of legal hounds being payed god knows what amounts of money to eat any lawyer or person willing to take on goliath.

Phone Sony about the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

[...] with pitchforks in hand. Nevermind silly little boycotts.

Although I can quite understand your feeling, I think it's always wrong to resort to violence, and in my mind even to boycotts, if you haven't at least tried to talk to the other party.

According to the feedback page for Sony USA, you should call their Quality Management Department at 800-255-7514 (609-722-8224 in New Jersey) "if you believe a Sony Music product has a manufacturing defect".

I would seem reasonable to give them the courtesy of doing what they ask for, and phone them before doing anything else.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[swillden]

According to the feedback page for Sony USA, you should call their Quality Management Department at 800-255-7514 (609-722-8224 in New Jersey) "if you believe a Sony Music product has a manufacturing defect". I would seem reasonable to give them the courtesy of doing what they ask for, and phone them before doing anything else.

Yes, please call them.

Several times.

Per day.

Each.

:)

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[TheUnknownCoder]

Well, you all know how Sony treats its (ex-)customers, and calling them will get you nowhere. So instead of calling or emailing Sony, contact the US Department of Justice , and demand an action against Sony. They have never charged a big corporation with a computer crime, but I believe that Sony should be the first one, and let it set an example.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[MrNiceguy_KS]

I just sent them off an email and I'll call tomorrow when the switchboard is open. I'm sure I'm not the only one. Just remember, be polite and reasonable, and if using email, read over your message before you send it. Don't scream that Sony execs should be shot, just point out that Sony is breaking computer crime laws by damaging the security of thousands of computers. Point out their use of a fraudulent EULA that implies their software can be uninstalled. Mention that, even though they have recalled the CDs in question, the crimes have already been commited.

I don't think it will help a whole lot if the DOJ gets 100,000 emails that all look like typical /. posts.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[iambarry]

I called 800 255-7514. Turns out its just an answering service. They refused to forward a message about defective CDs.

However, they gave me another number to call : 212 833-8000 .

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I, for one, have written the USDOJ and upon a little research have found someone that I will vote against in the next appropriate election: Orin Hatch. I live in Utah, and I hate to admit, I'm one of the people that voted for him last time but that was before I read this: http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,59305,00 .html

Yes, it is an old story, but he seems to be advocating what Sony has done. I only stumbled upon the article because I googled "Orin Hatch contact" to send a letter to him like I sent to the DOJ, but now I won't bother. As sick as I feel for voting for him in the first place, I a) will not make that mistake again and b) will tell everyone who will listen (especially those in Utah) how I feel about it.

Below is my letter to the DOJ. I urge others to write letters to whomever they feel would be appropriate. I hope this gets modded up enough for people to notice it and learn about Mr Hatch and his evil ideology.

JazzLad
(PS - Sorry I'm not logged in!)

**** Letter to DOJ follows ****

Dear Sir or Ma'am,

Thank you for taking the time to read my email. I know you are busy, so I will keep it brief. I am not a lawyer, politician, or any other important person, I am just a common ordinary American with a concern. I am concerned about the recent actions of Sony BMG. I do not feel that any corporation, regardless of their size, should be allowed to install 'back door' programs on my computer. I also believe that persons or corporations that do so should be sufficiently punished so as to deter them from attempting the practice in the future. I am not after any money, I am merely maintaining my privacy. Further, this particular case frightens me to the extent that terrorists can use the back door (http://antivirus.about.com/od/virusdescriptions/p /sonystinx.htm) to use my computer (and other computers) to plan attacks, communicate and other things that I honestly do not want to think about. I am a careful computer user. I do not download email attachments. I do everything in my power to not have software installed on my computer that could be bad. I thought I could trust a company as large as Sony.

Please help a powerless citizen send a message. Please use your power to keep my computer safe. I am but one person, but my situation is shared by millions of fellow Americans.

I sincerely thank you for your time.

[signed with my name, address and phone number]

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[mckennage]

I hope Sony feels the pain on this one. Maximum damage.

Here are a few ideas:
1. Spread the word: tell friends, post in your blog, etc.
2. Boycott Sony products: no PS3, no PSP.
3. Legal retribution: file criminal charges, lawsuits, etc.
4. Warn customers and vendors: rate Amazon products, notify the BBB, etc.
5. Warn the artists: tell them they are losing your purchase and why
6. Notify Sony: call, write, and email to complain

I've written up more details at http://henage.net/dan/security/sony-rootkit.html

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I called, it was just an answering service. they said to go to the web site: http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/ (don't bother, there isn't any information there). I asked if they would repair my computer. she said i could try sony repairs at 800 222 7669.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[TheUnknownCoder]

C'mon, read the first link and MOD PARENT UP.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[mrchaotica]

Don't forget to complain about Microsoft too, as per this post.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[Reverend528]

Actually, if you read that article, it clearly states that Orin Hatch advocates destroying the computers owned by people who download music. Sony, as it turns out, is only interested in destroying the computers of people who buy music.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[mrchaotica]

Could you post again, except logged in? I want to add you to my "friends" list.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[app13b0y]

I agree.
You know what would be really cool? taking the /. effect to the next level, if everybody follows through, how long until the wave of the /. effect will take out Sony's customer support center? and/or cause waits of over two days :P

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[Absentminded-Artist]

Hatch is a tool (There's a new google bomb in the making). Pure and simple. He has bought into the RIAA/MPAA party message hook, line, and sinker. He's my Senator, too, and I write him all the time. I think I'm stepping up my letter intensity to him. No matter how well I word my arguments against the laws he is for concerning digital rights management, he mostly sends me letters in the gist of "Thank you for sharing your feelings with me. Unfortunately, I don't care what my constituents think so I'm going to pass every bad law I can think of that will make my RIAA/MPAA friends happy." He just sent me another one concerning the new laws regulating digital radio. I have never replied to one of his replies before so we'll see where that gets me.

I write the guy so much he probably has a file on me...

Bennett, OTOH, is much nicer to deal with. He doesn't write you back much, or at least he only writes you back when he agrees with you. I guess I find that less frustrating to deal with than Hatch's office.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[pv2b]

The slashdot effect never seems to extend to sites posted in comments. I guess the silent majority never even venture into the comments, just reading the front page.

Still, a nice sentiment.

Re:Phone Sony about the problem

[Anonymous Coward]

They can't do anything, the people that can do something is the management and they are corrupt as the second you start caring for the customer and not profits you are stamped too emotional for the job. The almost all current managers of almost all current companies are corrupted, including VA Software (Owner of Slashdot) which is corrupted for a fact.

Maybe if the public starts taking back what some of these companies own where the profits goes back to the public, we will break free from this mess but until then we are stuck.

Personally I have a dream of a place where the public owns an ever growing group of good and services with all their profits go back to the public, to subsidize costly things depending on their needs (e.g. medicine, trips to see parents... obvously only for services offered by the public) and for future research... As it is right now the public is constantly getting stuffed over and over, companies just milk and milk the public and the government just tax and tax the public BECAUSE THE PUBLIC AS A WHOLE DON'T OWN MONEY MAKING GOODS AND SERVICES!

Disclaim: I am a teenager that dropped out of school but in a few years when I am old enough to do anything about it (and have the oblig. fully grown beard), Companies watch out the public is going to be your competition!

P.S. The government is "of, by the people for the people" but is the market "for the people"? NO! The market is something like this "by mostly the greedy people, for himself"

P.S.S. I hardly ever post on any news site but as I saw (almost) everyone missing the problems, it was needed for me to post this.

I want crying directors!

[network23]

I want Sony top management crying, blurbin and apologizing on primetime TV.

They should apologize to us their customers as well to Masaru Ibuka and Akio Morita.

Goddammit, is this once so great company now totally run by morons?

Re:I want crying directors!

[narcc]

I fear Sony has but one way to avoid dishonor: hara-kiris

So what's your point?

[Eric Damron]

That we can't hurt Sony by witholding our money so we shouldn't even try?

If you don't think a boycott is the way to go maybe suggesting something that you think will make a difference would be a good idea.

Re:So what's your point?

[DroopyStonx]

Download their music/games, mod their consoles... that would be a start. That's what I do. I mean, I know it's not what people wanna hear, but it's much more effective at pissing them off and getting a reaction than "boycotting" could ever do. People would rather take a legal non-civil disobedient method, but sometimes you need to take matters into your own hands.

They're so quick to slip some software under the radar onto your computer and think nothing of it. If it was an average person, the FBI would be all over their ass. If Sony gets away with a similar crime, then so will you.

Let me ask you this, why waste your energy trying to boycott something if you KNOW it won't have an impact? That's like those chain letters going around urging people to not buy gas for a day/week because prices are so high in some odd attempt at screwing oil companies. It's not gonna happen. Most people are sheep and can care less - based on that alone you won't get anywhere.

If it makes you feel better personally to boycott, then have at it, but if you want ACTUAL results, that alone won't do it. What will? I don't know. The fact is, they're a multi-billion dollar international corporation, so feeble attempts at gathering the masses to not buy their products isn't gonna cut it. I don't know, perhaps if you were someone like Microsoft or Google (or another company with massive influence and a shitload of cash), you could probably make a stink and turn some heads.

You *could* boycott something like a local restaurant - yes, that will probably get you results if you get enough people doing it.

Sony? No. Microsoft? No. Government? No.

To me it sounds like some new laws need to be made, but unless you have enough cash to persuade your lawmakers to even think of such a thing, you're kinda SOL.

Till then... don't buy their stuff - download it instead.

Re:So what's your point?

[cortana]

You may be right ;)

Re:So what's your point?

[Hrodvitnir]

How about getting your local news team to report that Sony's CDs install spyware on your machine that makes it easy for viruses and hackers to compromise your machine.

Might not work everywhere, but the odds on that seem a lot better odds than a word-of-mouth boycott.

Way to shoot yourself in the foot, Sony!

[atomic_toaster]

Okay, I've fallen for your lines about downloading and not paying for mp3's "taking money away from artists", that downloading is illegal and immoral and God knows what else. Or maybe I've just gotten tired of trying to find a good copy of a song online. Or I might simply prefer to have a high-quality copy of my favorite album(s) so that, if for some reason my computer should crash, I can convert a new copy to MP3 and lose nothing but a little time.

For whatever reason, I buy one of your CD's, pay the $18 CAD or thereabouts for a new release. But this is the computer age, I don't even own a stereo, so I want to play the CD on my computer.

The first thing I notice is that the CD is DRM-ed to death so it's a pain in the ass to convert the songs to MP3 format; so much for listening to the music that I've bought on my iPod. (If I live in Canada, I may have also paid for this music twice, once through the purchase of the CD, and a second time through the levy on my iPod as "blank media".) Oh yeah, and for some reason, neither iTunes nor Winamp will play the CD.

The second thing I notice (because who really reads the EULA?) while researching how to crack the DRM, is that, among other things, if my house is burgled I will have to delete all the mp3's from this disc. (Because, you know, a burglar would spend all that time copying the MP3's from my hard drive instead of stealing the whole damn computer. And man, if I own a laptop, they're just going to leave it on the desk and take my crappy TV instead...) Also, if I don't update the software whenever it prompts me to, I will lose all access to the music that I have purchased. And I can't listen to the music on a work computer, nor can I re-sell the CD that I have just purchased. WTF?

But then my system crashes, and some virus I can't get rid of keeps me from accessing all the data on my hard drives that I haven't backed up in ages (of course). And how did this virus get on my system? Through a root kit that the Sony CD installed without even telling me it was doing so, thank you very much. ...

Alright, Sony, now you've shot yourself in the foot. You've basically persuaded millions of CD buyers out there (you know, the people who were actually paying for your product?) that it's easier, safer, and plain old less annoying to yoink MP3's from thier favorite website or file-sharing program.

Way to go.

(Idiots.)

Re:Way to shoot yourself in the foot, Sony!

[Cl1mh4224rd]

The second thing I notice (because who really reads the EULA?) while researching how to crack the DRM, is that, among other things, if my house is burgled I will have to delete all the mp3's from this disc. (Because, you know, a burglar would spend all that time copying the MP3's from my hard drive instead of stealing the whole damn computer. And man, if I own a laptop, they're just going to leave it on the desk and take my crappy TV instead...)

I just wanted to point out that that's not the reason they want you to delete the music from your computer. Apparently Sony either 1) considers stolen material to have legally changed ownership, or 2) possession of the original CD is the only criteria for determining the legality of possessing copies of the music. Given those retarded stances, they claim that you would no longer have the right to possess copies of the music, because you no longer "own" or possess the original CD.

I... don't even know what to say about Sony anymore...

Re:Way to shoot yourself in the foot, Sony!

[perp]

If I live in Canada, I may have also paid for this music twice, once through the purchase of the CD, and a second time through the levy on my iPod as "blank media".

The iPod levy was ruled invalid and Apple is refunding it.

I agree with the rest of your rant entirely. Sony has always rubbed me the wrong way with their arrogance and I own very few Sony products. Now I will start checking CD labels for Sony-ness.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[Anonymous Coward]

The war between states is what the southerners like to call the civil war as they viewed things with an emphasis on state rights. Big government did not come in until the 20th century under Theodore Rosevelt. I do not even recall a national income tax before ww1. Lincoln was not a radical liberal like those in the south believed. It was only a justification for the seperatist to declare independance. Most of the big government came during the depression which was 70 years later.

My macroeconomics class 101 that I learned was that governmental services are public goods. Public goods need to be run by the government since the private sector wont produce a public good if the free rider dilempa hurts profits. Without the public sector we would have a market-failure. How would these free enterprises delivery their goods without roads? What if all we had were toll roads? How would they hurt prices? How about lack of schools since only the rich then could afford private schools? How efficient would your workers be if a third could not read? There is a reason why corporate offices are based in teh us and not india or china even though outsourcing has started there. Its because Americans are more efficient because they are better educated. There is a vast difference in education between the poor and wealthy in china and india.

The macro economy is inherientantly unstable and classic economic theory as you hold has been proven false time and time again. The market mechanism only magnifies the problem when a crisis hits the economy and government intervention with interest rates and bank regulations mixed with public goods that support business stabilize and help the market. Its a fact.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[oGMo]

They're associated well enough to have the name "SONY" branded on them. Good enough for me.

Ah yes, broad generalization and stubborn ignorance, that'll solve the problem. Isn't that why they want DRM in the first place?

Why does Microsoft look so good here?

[spankaroo]

I don't fully understand why Microsoft comes off looking okay here. Why is it so easy to "patch Windows APIs" and override kernel operations? Why is this common practice? From the original SysInternals.com article: "Rootkits that hide files, directories and Registry keys can either execute in user mode by patching Windows APIs in each process that applications use to access those objects, or in kernel mode by intercepting the associated kernel-mode APIs. A common way to intercept kernel-mode application APIs is to patch the kernel's system service table"... Sony did it and didn't think it through - left some bugs, and generally made a lot of people angry and worried... but Microsoft is at the heart of the issue isn't it? Why is it so easy to patch these APIs? Isn't this all just a Microsoft security hole that allowed Sony to make another one?

Re:Why does Microsoft look so good here?

[Tankko]

Come on, give Microsoft at least a few days of being a hero. Who knows when they will ever get the chance again.

Re:Why does Microsoft look so good here?

[man_ls]

Hooking into API calls is a way to extend OS functionality using third-party handlers. The mechanism itself, while a bit on the strange side and used for barely anything, is harmless. It is the fact that, using the built in extension functionality of the operating system, these applications are able to render themselves invisible -- by overriding filesystem handling instructions with ones which hide their presence.

It's not so much a Microsoft security hole, as an exploit of a feature which has interesting potential but is rarely used.

Re:Why does Microsoft look so good here?

[jerw134]

Why is it so easy to patch these APIs?

Because that's what Administrators are allowed to do. Run as root on Linux, and it would be just as simple to install a rootkit. If a user isn't running as an Administrator on Windows, the Sony rootkit will not install. There is no exploit being taken advantage of here.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security? BullSh***

[coinreturn]

The kinds of machines that are in these secure environments are locked down big time...most don't even have a CD-ROM attached to the machine. The networks are closed (no direct internet access) and the machines with CD-ROMs/RWs have their lasers aligned differently so as to not be able to be read on a standard drive...one of the benifits of purposefuly misaligning the laser that writes the disks to be read in these machines is that you can't just insert a standard CD... Yes, contrary to what the media would have you belive, the folks in secure/top-secret/classified government positions are not stupid...

All I can say is I am in the know with regard to such matters and you are so amazingly wrong it is unbelieveable. There may be EXTREMELY isolated cases of such Machiavellian security measures, but it has been my experience that music CDs are always making it into secured areas and being played on secure machines.

The most bizarre aspect to this story...

[anandamide]

Did anyone look at some of the titles they chose to infect with this thing?

Bob Brookmeyer - Bob Brookmeyer & Friends
Horace Silver - Silver?s Blue
Dexter Gordon - Manhattan Symphonie
Ahmed Jamal - The Legendary Okeh and Epic Recordings

Bob Brookmeyer???? Was Sony afraid of the cadre of L33t h4xx0r d00dz pirating their catalog of elderly jazz trombonists?

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Surt]

And also not necessarily to change your mind or anything, but do you really think Sony's business practices averaged over say the last 5 years are worse than Microsoft's? I mean yes, this week sony has done a huge bad, and Microsoft has done a small good, but it's like saying you'd prefer the company of the devil who gave you a nice lollipop today to the saint who slapped you in a brief fit of anger over your stealing of his cane.

DNS Query

[QuantumRiff]

No where have I seen the dns address to query.. I would like to check my Named Logs, and see if there are any infected machines on my office network. (about 200pc's, most in student labs). Does anyone have any idea what the domain is that it searches for?

Re:DNS Query

[Anonymous Coward]

From the third article linked - the Wired story:
"Kaminsky asked more than 3 million DNS servers across the net whether they knew the addresses associated with the Sony rootkit -- connected.sonymusic.com, updates.xcp-aurora.com and license.suncom2.com."

JonH

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Anonymous Coward]

PS3 contains DRM too, buy the way.

Boycott ALL Sony DRM, PS3 included.

Hello Class Action Lawsuit

[rootology]

It's only a matter of time.

Has anyone filed a criminal complaint yet?

[Animats]

If you're a sysadmin cleaning this crap out of a big collection of computers, you're in a good position to file a criminal complaint with the Department of Justice. And you should. A crime has been committed.

Jennifer Granick, executive director of Stanford University's Center for Internet and Society, sees this as a question of how well written their EULA is, a topic of much conversation in the media lately.

But either way, she noted over IM, "if the EULA did not advise the user that s/he was installing software on the machine that would collect information and/or open the machine to vulnerabilities, then the software arguably violates 18 usc 1030(a)(5)(A)." That's a criminal charge. But Granick doesn't see criminal prosecution of Sony anytime soon.

"The (Department of Justice) is not going to charge Sony.... They have never charged a big corporation with a computer crime."

In order to invoke 18 USC 1030, you have to show $5,000 in damages or damage to a computer system used by or for a government entity in furtherance of the administration of justice, national defense or national security. That's another interesting point of Kaminsky's work, because it shows networks that are part of national security and civil infrastructure faithfully reporting their existance back to Sony, along with as yet unknown information about the compromised computers.

Sony product reviews at Amazon.com

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like a reason for the /. croud to sign up to Amazon and post some reviews on any and all Sony products!

Re:Quick! (no need to hurry)

[Maxo-Texas]

Since you can buy them used and sony can't withdraw those, this issue will literally never go away- I bet these CD's will be screwing up a few computers a year a decade from now.

About that uninstaller

[kawika]

The Sony/XCP uninstall process requires you to fill out a web form that uses an ActiveX control. That control has several serious security issues including the ability to run arbitrary code and even a handy built-in reboot function. The ActiveX control gropes around your system and encrypts some information that is submitted in a hidden form field. Their privacy policy does not mention this.

Feel free to go over there and try it yourself. If you install the ActiveX you can remove it in Tools, Internet Options, Settings, View Objects, "CodeSupport Control". Here's what they send you:

From: contentprotectionhelp
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 04:22 AM
To: sony-bmg-sucks@invalid.com
Subject: Re: ContentProtectionHelp Email Form

Thank you for contacting Sony BMG Online.

Sony BMG and First 4 Internet have released a Service Pack 2a update that addresses recent concerns surrounding the cloaking technology component on SONY BMG content protected CDs which use XCP technology. These components are not malicious nor spyware however to alleviate any concerns that users may have about the program posing potential security vulnerabilities the update removes the cloaking component from their computers. Please visit the link below to install the SP2a update.

      http://updates.xcp-aurora.com/

If you do not want to install the SP2a update and only wish to uninstall the DRM software, visit the form below using IE 5.0 (or higher) from the computer where the software is installed. After submission, you will be emailed a customized uninstall link within 1 business day (M-F).

      http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/form9.html
      Your "Case ID" is: 9999999.

TIP: The uninstall request form will require an ActiveX plug-in.
                Also you may need to temporarily turn off any pop-up blocker
                software on the PC.

Thank you for the opportunity to be of assistance.

The Sony BMG Online Support Team
FKSZ

This message and any attachments are solely for the use of intended recipients. They may contain privileged and/or confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that you received this email in error, and that any review, dissemination, distribution or copying of this email and any attachment is strictly prohibited. If you receive this email in error please contact the sender and delete the message and any attachments associated therewith from your computer. Your cooperation in this matter is appreciated.

- - - - -

On behalf of every malware writer out there...

[suitepotato]

THANK YOU SONY!

You knew it was coming.

I am banning my family from using their Windows PCs to play CDs thanks to this. Was on the fence, but not anymore. I don't need this aggravation and have enough crapware to remove thanks to their frenetic ADD click every frigging thing tendencies.

I wonder how long until I see such things infecting my customers with traffic generating trojans and viruses that they can't figure out how to remove.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security? BullSh***

[Jherek Carnelian]

All I can say is I am in the know with regard to such matters and you are so amazingly wrong it is unbelieveable. There may be EXTREMELY isolated cases of such Machiavellian security measures, but it has been my experience that music CDs are always making it into secured areas and being played on secure machines.

This guy is NOT a troll. He is far more correct than the GP is.

Obnoxious EULA

[apetala2]

The EFF has some information about the EULA that accompanies the XCP CDs:
http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/archives/004145.php
I find the list to be quite odious. For example, if you declare bankruptcy, you must delete all music from the CD off your computer (or else you're in violation of the EULA). Unless you owe Sony money or you're wanting to borrow money from Sony, why should Sony care about your financial problems?

This is something that has bothered me for quite some time: Obnoxious EULAs. Like many people, I have not usually bothered to read EULAs that accompany software installations. However, I think I should, and I should object when the terms are ridiculous as they are in this example.

However, what I wonder is if it is possible to do this and continue to use any software that has any EULA. Are they all this obnoxious? Are there any that set out fair and reasonable terms? I will find out as I pay more attention in the future.

Re:Obnoxious EULA

[hurfy]

Why should they care that you care...you won't help their next quarterly report now that you're bankrupt!

Maybe you are supposed to delete them and reload them with the bankrupt flag set so they know not to steal your personal data. This would be funnier if it wasn't the best reason i could think of for said requirement.....

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Guppy06]

The difference is that I don't have "pirate" stamped on my forehead. If Sony didn't want to milk its name recognition for every dime it's worth, they wouldn't have "SONY" written on everything they sell. Even if they didn't want to spin off their hardware division, they still could have followed Disney's example of "Touchstone," et al.

They want to make money on the Sony name, period. If there's going to be a consumer response, then the response should show the industry just what that "SONY" nameplate is worth.

Curiouser and curiouser...

[Thad Boyd]

Why, Microsoft is fighting this? Wow! Suddenly I find myself liking Microsoft much better than Sony! ... ... ...Say, what's this I hear about a major Microsoft product launch in a field dominated by Sony?

Sony CEO didn't support Bush in 2004

[Animats]

Sony isn't a Bush contributor. Here are the campaign contributions of Sony's CEO. He donated to Kerry and Hillary Clinton, but not Bush.

So Sony is in real trouble. Watch this turn into a criminal case.

Re:Sony CEO didn't support Bush in 2004

[Blue_Wombat]

They may not have donated in 2004, but I would imagine the halls of government have been swarming with Sony reps over the last 4-5 days, shoving briefcases of cash ....erm.... "campaign contributions" towards anyone who even looks like a politician (of any persuasion)who will even make eye contact with them. Why worry about whether you have bought the wrong party/Senator/Governor/Congresscritter when you can buy em all.

Re:Sony CEO didn't support Bush in 2004

[AnalogDiehard]

So Sony is in real trouble. Watch this turn into a criminal case.

Microsoft was in trouble too until their campaign contributions got Bush in office, and key personnel were replaced in the DoJ division working on the antitrust case. A lame staff was left to deal with the case and M$ got off with a slap on the wrist.

Bush only has two years left in his term. Like M$, $ony has the resources (supplied by your purchase dollars and the RIAA settlements from suing downloaders) to drag this trial through the courts long enough to get a sympathetic elected official in a position of power to derail the DoJ.

Democracy and Justice, I love it :)

Maybe You're Right

[DannyO152]

But I'm still boycotting them until Sony BMG says "never again," about mixing software into audio disks. I have half a mind to head over to Virgin Megastore this afternoon and mention at the counter that I will not be buying Springsteen's Born To Run Retrospective because of this. Even if it turns out, as you suggest, that this goes nowhere, at least I'll have the satisfaction of knowing that my apathy and/or inaction didn't contribute to the problem. And the problem, as I see it, is that Sony and those undiscovered and those waiting in the wings have no business limiting the number of times and the ways I personally use my purchased music.

oops nevermind that.

[Spy der Mann]

Please remind me to RTFSummary (oops :-S )

Re:CD's on top secret machines

[Maxo-Texas]

Music CD's have historically been thought to be "read only" and so there was no need for security to prevent them from installing software. In that light, I find it unlikely that PC's are locked down to the level you think.

A little harsh

[alanbs]

I have kept up with this saga of the Sony "root kit" and I think that the Slashdot-esque communities are reacting a little harshly to Sony.

I think that once people started referring to the software as a root kit, it really crossed the line to some degree because even though technically it might have been, it was not exactly malicious in the way other root kits are. Once tech zealots got up in arms about this, news media covered it and adopted the same terminology. Of course all readers of this media are not tech junkies so they require definitions for terminology, and I think that reporters who themselves are not techies cannot do justice to the situation when defining technical things.

Maybe this bit of trickery was deliberate, and well, I bet it was... I mean, not only is using a misleading discourse awesome, but it is also a blast to describe how to exploit systems with this "rootkit" and then even code up a proof of concept worm and let it free! After all, this is 1984 style, which is just wrong, so the end justifies the means, right guys, ... right?

Re:A little harsh

[KD5YPT]

The reason the word "rootkit" is used is because it behaves JUST LIKE ONE! Regardless of their intention.

Re:A little harsh

[Todd Knarr]

Robert Morris didn't intend his little worm program to spread as widely as it did, but none of the companies and universities whose networks were shut down by the Morris Worm in 1988 cared about intentions. They only cared about the fact that the worm killed their networks. When Sony's software starts playing games with my system I don't care what their intentions were, only what the results are.

SONY's mess might change things

[Anonymous Coward]

What SONY has done is very bad, but now maybe people will read the labels a bit more than just the title.
Maybe people won't buy a music CD if it contains more than just music. I know I won't.
I buy a music CD for the music. I won't stand for any restrictions against what the law allows for me. This includes making backups, coping the music I want into the format I want for my personal use, and using whatever player to listen to the music I want.

This applies to all the big labels.

Searching Sony

[Bloggins]

Funny a search of the sony site for this most popular software, returns nil, anyone know where I can get a copy for linux?

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[MadJo]

Have you looked at the draconian anti-copying measurements that Sony wants to incorporate in the PS3.
Say bye-bye to second hand games or even game-rentals.
clicky

Jail Time

[jlavarj]

If I had distributed the same type of software with a backdoor in it that was later used to facilitate virii and worms, I would probably be going to jail. Why does Sony get a free pass on this?

That is what a rootkit does

[bluGill]

A rootkit is any set (which could be one) of software that an attacker uses to attack your (or other) computer and cover his tracks so you don't notice and cannot uninstall.

This meets both definitions. It covers it tracks, and it allows Sony to prevent you from ripping the disk.

A rootkit might include software to attack other computers, but the rootkit itself is whatever is used on YOUR computer AFTER it is cracked.

This is more sinister than it seems...

[Anonymous Coward]

This wasn't a faulty DRM scheme, this was a CYBERNETIC PEARL HARBOR!!!!!

Man, I feel bad for anyone in Foggy Bottom that just wanted to listen to a little Van Zant at the office this week.

not a pooch, much bigger

[tomcres]

Sony didn't just screw the pooch, my friend.. this is more than that.. straight-up goatse!!

Where were Symantec, Microsoft, and McAfee ??

[softcoder]

It's all very well for the biggies to hop on the 'We will remove it' bandwagon now, but why weren't they the ones to discover it in the first place?
Groklaw has a nice essay on this, which reveals that these guys ALREADY KNEW what Sony was doing 8 months ago and turned a blind eye.
In fact the maker of the rootkit (UK company) is on record as saying they consulted with Symantec to make sure that their rootkit would not be classified as a virus.
The moral? The current PC/entertainment/gaming/recording industry is a scratch-my-back oligopoly.
Go for FREE(as in dom) SOFTWARE while you still have a choice.

Re:Where were Symantec, Microsoft, and McAfee ??

[jerw134]

Can you give me an example of a FREE(as in dom) virus (or any malware) scanner that detected the Sony rootkit before it was big news? Oh, you can't?

Re:Where were Symantec, Microsoft, and McAfee ??

[Run4yourlives]

I think his point is that if all code is open, you wouldn't need such a tool.

As the news spread, check here often

[Puhase]

http://money.excite.com/jsp/qt/full.jsp?time=0&typ e=QT

This news story has really only begun to break onto mainstream media and just wait for it to hit the general public. I bet Sony cant wait to have regular Joe Schmoe think that when they buy a Sony CD, they are going to mess up and get a virus on their computer. And just before the Christmas season as well. Average consumers have no was to discern what the real problem was here, the concept of a "rootkit" would probably lead to potato or carrot issues, so they will just blanket Sony products with the "full of bad stuff" stigma. And then just wait for the sales #'s to come in after the Christmas season. This stock is going from bad to worse. Boycotts are fun, but when the guys who own $300 million in stock are getting screwed, then the fun really begins. Seppuku anyone?

Re:CD's on top secret machines

[jonnythan]

Trust me, they are. They are almost invariably on secure networks with no direct internet connection. They do not have floppy drives or CD drives. The users run with very restricted rights and never have Write permissions to the hard drives.

These machines are very, very locked down I assure you.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security? BullSh***

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes but the important thing is that most of the computers are on a network that is not connected to the internet. Can you deny that? Hehe I don't know who came up with the misaligned CD theory thats just silly.

God it hurts.

[Anonymous Coward]

The great thing about all of this is that now that the Feds are aware of this evil DRM bullshit, they will start regulating it a little better.

I think my eyes are bleeding.

"The government doesn't work- We must need more government to fix it!"

Sony and RIAA will blame P2Pers not boycott

[bgalbrecht]

Even if a boycott were to work, and Sony's CD sales were to drop 50% during the Christmas season (with no changes in sales from other labels), Sony and the RIAA would claim that it was clearly caused by illegal P2P file-sharing, and file extra lawsuits targeting Sony CD sharers, and lobby Congress for more protection. The industry's been in denial for years about the causes of the decline in CD sales, and Sony would never admit that a slump is caused by their poor management when they could pin the blame on the evil file-sharing masses.

Re:Sony and RIAA will blame P2Pers not boycott

[dada21]

So you agree that voting is a loser's venture, as everyone you can vote for is in office to hurt you, right?

Sony's power in a free market comes from making customers happy. Sony's power in a mercantilist market is by buying the power of government.

red herring.

[Anonymous Coward]

see subject line.

Record Yet?

[Nom du Keyboard]

Are we at the record yet for most stories on consecutive days trashing the same company for the same beyond stupid bonehead move?

Or are we simply waiting for their current management to fall on their sword when the post bad-will boycott sales figures arrive?

My hope is that this will force companies to actually tell you what they've been able to hide behind the scenes and lawyers up to now.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[MadJo]

oh btw.. yeah I know, it's just a rumour... :)

I agree, but I think it is for different reasons.

[moultano]

By buying the CD second hand you are decreasing the supply of cheap second hand disks, therefore making it more likely that someone will pay for a new copy when they can't find a used copy.

Sony's day just got worse..

[tomcres]

Nosuchnews reports that a backdoor was discovered in the NetWalkman that allows Sony to turn them on simultaneously and take total control of them, wherever they may be.

It's uncertain what purpose was intended by this, but one anonymous source within Sony was quoted as saying, "Picture Reggie Jackson in the Naked Gun. 'I must kill the Queen.' Now imagine over a million of those, all NetWalkmans." Then the Sony employee grinned sinisterly and said, "ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US! YOU ARE SO PWNED!"

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security? BullSh***

[OneFix at Work]

You know, you're right...I don't know what got into me there...they would never do anything like that...

Always make sure your hardware is within standard civilian specs...wouldn't want to have problems reading that satellite data if you needed to run out to Wal-Mart and replace a drive would you?

What will work

[SuperKendall]

I also agree boycotts will not work. A major reason? Because there's no way Sony can measure what you are not buying. If you can get enough people not buying something it might work, but as the poster said that task is really impossible when it comes to Sony as a company.

So what will work:

Litigation. That's a great start because it costs them money they can count (legal fees) instead of four people not buying some Sony product. It looks like this might end up costing them big.

Harrass customer service. It is not as effective but if a lot of people start consuming customer service with calls, again this costs them a measureable amount of money and also makes the VP in charge of customer service very angry. You want angry people at the same level in the company as the ones who are putting in things like the rootkit.

The main goal in all this should be to try and make a public example of Sony so that other companies do not do the same thing, and Sony themselves will not want to try again for quite some time.

Re:What will work

[DanielJosphXhan]

I agree - there's no way for Sony to measure what you're not buying. But isn't that exactly the argument they use to justify things like DRM? Which is - to me, at least - very, very odd.

dan (why can't we "share" things like PS3s already... give me a replicator, dammit!)

Re:What will work

[born_to_live_forever]

I do agree that a boycott of Sony CDs is unlikely to be fully effective - because slumping sales due to a boycott are just as likely to be falsely (deliberately?) interpreted as the result of "music piracy", and presented to the media as such.

What might work is a boycott of Sony hardware as well.

But dimes will get you dollars that some corporate drone will find a way to blame a slump in hardware sales on "piracy", too.

Regardless, Sony is now on my boycott list, joining a number of other companies with bad habits that they need to be broken of.

Certainly, the effects of a boycott may not be obvious on the scale that Sony operates, but I can guarantee you that anything that whittles away even a few percent of the bottom line will hurt them.

A case in point: In my native Denmark, dairy conglomerate Arla got on the wrong side of consumer opinion, a few years back, by pressuring retail chains to sell only Arla products. The consumers decided that removing their free choice of goods was unacceptable, and responded with a boycott. Not everybody participated, and many gave up the boycott once the news had faded back into the background noise. But the overall effects of this are still being felt by Arla, years later - as many people have formed the habit of deliberately avoiding Arla products whenever possible. Net result was a loss of several percent of market share, which translates into a huge loss on the corporate scale.

Re:What will work

[SoCalChris]

Harrass customer service. It is not as effective but if a lot of people start consuming customer service with calls, again this costs them a measureable amount of money and also makes the VP in charge of customer service very angry. You want angry people at the same level in the company as the ones who are putting in things like the rootkit.

I work for a company that writes software for call centers. Customer support calls cost an average of $3-$30 per call for a company. Lots of upset customers add up quickly.

Re:What will work

[ToasterofDOOM]

Litigation cost a lot for both sides buddy, even if it is a group lawsuit. Also, harassing people makes you the bad guy too. Don't be a loser, you're just encouraging them. As a side note, my primary problem with DRM is that it is there because the RIAA/MPAA thinks that people would pirate it without it. This is treating your customers as criminals! That doesn't sit well with me, so I've stopped buying CDs. I never bought many anyways,and I'm not demanding others not to, but I'm just doing my part.

Even better

[upside]

Don't just wait for something like this to happen, make it so. I think the Sony rootkit debacle has produced enough media coverage to get support for some countermeasures. It's time to start putting through laws along the lines of:

- Ban proactive DRM measures on content media. Permit encryption of data but ban executables on media that are supposed to be plain content.

- DRM measures, either hardware or software, on general purpose playback systems (home computers, DVD players etc) may not hinder the playback of non-DRM content.

- Create a labelling scheme, either mandatory or otherwise, for digital content that clearly tells the customer if the product
1) Is encrypted or DRM'd
2) Contains executables
3) Requires registration
4) Requires an Internet connection
5) Requires payment beyond the purchase price
6) Calls home, and what it does

Comments welcome.

Re:How to boycott? Website

[StarsAreAlsoFire]

acronyms like DRM

Digital Restrictions Managment.

Any different?

[Anonymous Coward]

I stopped buying CD's to avoid badly written DRM software long ago. The only difference I see in this case is the lack of an entry in the 'Add/Remove Programs' section, which 95% of the people buying these CDs wouldnt ever think to go to in the first place. In the grand scheme of things, this has been going on for a long time already - we just caught them on a technicality.

If Sony had included an obfuscated uninstall option (which we all know they regret not doing), we wouldnt have this huge fiasco - but there'd still be 'half a million infected networks' out there just the same.

Big Market Share...= Really Big Problems

[BoRegardless]

When biological or other complex systems become nearly homogeneous (like central governments), they are subject to extinction from just one new unplanned for adverse error or "bug".

interesting info about Sony BMG Corp. ($5B/Yr.)

[Anonymous Coward]

LEGAL STATUS: Joint Venture
EMPLOYEES: 10,000 (As of 2005)

SUBSIDIARIES:

Columbia Records Group
Epic Records Group
Loud Records, Inc.
RCA Label Group-Nashville
Provident Music Group
RCA Music Group

OFFICERS:
Rolf Schmidt-Holtz, Chairman
Andrew R. (Andy) Lack, CEO and Director
Michael Smellie, COO

COMPETITORS:
EMI Group
Universal Music Group
Warner Music

FISCAL YEAR DATE: March 2005
SALES: $5,000,000,000

Microsoft's removal

[porkface]

There are two key points regarding Microsoft's removal of the rootkit.
1) They are only going so far as to remove the driver that makes it work. The other 2 files will be left alone.
2) Only users of the beta version of Microsoft Defender (MS Antispyware tool beta) will get this fix. Of course when it's released, the release version will include the fix as well.

Companies should learn something too

[sterno]

I think this whole mess is less about what consumers can learn about DRM than it is about what content providers can learn about it. How much PR, legal, and logistical trouble has been caused for Sony because they couldn't be bothered to let people rip a freaking CD on their home computer.

Why would any music label bother with this mess? It probably took them months to develop the technology which ultimately was an utter failure. This move likely had zero impact on the availability of their music through P2P websites. Because of the bug they'll end up spending tons of money to fix it, having to re-print CD's, etc. It's not worth the cost even if you accept the RIAA's most dire statistics.

Waiting for Sony's next step...

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, well, this whole Sony thing is coming along very nicely.
Now I find myself checking their site regularly for
some statement along these lines...:

[Otto dangles Archie out a window]
Archie: All right, all right, I apologize.
Otto: You're really sorry?
Archie: I'm really really sorry, I apologize unreservedly.
Otto: You take it back?
Archie: I do, I offer a complete and utter retraction. The imputation was totally without basis in fact, and was in no way fair comment, and was motivated purely by malice, and I deeply regret any distress that my comments may have caused you, or your family, and I hereby undertake not to repeat any such slander at any time in the future.
Otto: OK.

Blame it on MSFT

[n6kuy]

for making it possible for Sony to do this in the first place.

How do these "CD"s play in a normal CD player, or do they?

I was pissed off at first when my SysAdmin disabled autorun on my new XP box, but now I am enlightened.

Re:Blame it on MSFT

[kimvette]

By that logic: shame on Microsoft for allowing users logged in as Administer to have the ability to delete system files, change the video driver to run at resolutions the monitor can't sync to, allow to change their password and forget it, or to remove devices in Device Manager. I mean, after all, it's Microsoft's OS, so they should be blamed when third-parties develop malicious programs that Joe Sixpack installs while logged in as Administrator, right? Microsoft should be blamed for every trojan horse out there, as well as every buggy driver as well, by that logic!

They have their faults, most of which lie in maintaining backwards-compatibility with Win3x, DOS, and Win9x, all of which featured NO security, but to blame "reputable" companies' (Sony being reputable is very debatable at this point) developing rootkits and distributing them as part of supposedly-legitimate commodity products is definitely not the fault of MSFT.

I'm definitely no Microsoft fan with their current anti-customer policies, but come on - they are definitely not to blame for this issue.

FWIW, I'd bet that those files can be removed either by using Recovery Console or a Linux 2.4-based live CD.

Re:Blame it on MSFT

[n6kuy]

> By that logic: shame on Microsoft for ...

Aww.. You take all the fun out of Microsoft bashing..

> ... I'd bet that those files can be removed either by using Recovery Console or a Linux 2.4-based live CD.

They could DEFINATELY be removed using a Redahat, Mandrake, Debian, or etc install CD, if you know what I mean. ;-)

Re:Blame it on MSFT

[kimvette]

By that standard, so can Windows' own install CD. I made the foolish assumption that users actually want to salvage their data. ;)

For me, it's a trust issue...

[DigitalJeremy]

...and I don't trust Sony anymore...that's for sure.

Now...with all the DRM crap etc about...why should I buy music from a big retailer such as Sony/BMG? I mean, OTHER than to support the artist(s).

I want my money to support the artist's music I buy...but not like this. I don't want to support Sony or any other recording industry giant's "protective" measures.

This is the digital age...we are all equals here. Meaning, it's relatively easy (at least in recent history) to DUPLICATE those zeros and ones on a CD (or DVD for that matter). Yet Microsoft befuddles the issue with DRM, and Sony causes worldwide loss of faith with a rootkit.

Trust? /me doesn't.

I'm not advocating piracy...I'm just saying it's far EASIER (and now...safer) to find and play that MP3 than any of the "legit" *cough cough* alternatives.

I truly would like to see a less corporate model, in which the artist gets paid more fairly, and where artist and fan have a better relationship.

Re:For me, it's a trust issue...

[trollable]

I truly would like to see a less corporate model, in which the artist gets paid more fairly, and where artist and fan have a better relationship.

Jamendo: Listen and Donate.

Confidential, Secret, Top Secret, SAR, Intel, etc.

[AKAJack]

or blah, blah, blah.

It's been over ten years since i've been in that business, but i'd be seriously surprised if there were locally mountable devices, or even ports (USB, etc) on TS machines. We had no floppy drives and removable hard drives in our Secret machines, plus they were all tempest hardened, plus in lockable cabinets (those who know, know what i mean). We only had a few areas where we could even work on TS docs, much less create them from scratch. Having a CD drive (even read only) seems like something a security officer would have jumped on as a "duh" very early on in any project. If you needed a CD it would be mounted as a share to a server in the "vault" and you would be granted access to it for the time you needed it. No personal electrical devices were allowed in any way, shape, or form so no radios, CD players, etc.

I suppose if a contractor was lax this could all take place, someone could use the document blender to make margaritas, but in my experience there was no way to just pop in some disk or attach a device. I mean we didn't even have printers! They were locked up in the vault also and you had to sign for the number of pages you printed! This was just a SECRET rated facility (o.k., Secret with SAR, I'll give you that much). So be realistic. I could take CDs in all day long but they were only good as drink coasters.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[spagiola]

NOt to change your mind or anything, I would like to point out that at Sony's size, the different divisions have little or nothing to do with each other.
So the same people who make decisions for the music products are not the same people who make decisions at the playstation divisions. From what I hear, there is some pretty intense inside fighting going on between the people who make mop3 players, and the music division.

Right. So by boycotting the entire company, you give ammunition to those people fighting internally. They can say: "your s***-ups don't just affect Sony Music, they affect us all." And anyone inside who may have thought it's Sony Music's problem will see it's their problem, too.

Needed: Automatic "EULA-reject" mode

[Animats]

We need a mode for both web browsing and installs that rejects any end user license agreement in a legally enforceable way. Employee PCs in organizations with IT departments should have this on by default.

Web browsers should present a header which has some disclaimer like "The user of this web browser is not authorized to enter into contracts with any party on behalf of XXX company. Any agreement purportedly entered into via this network connection is null and void". It would be desirable to have a machine-readable standard for this, so web servers can determine whether they should deny access to certain pages or forms. Courts have recognized the "robots.txt" file convention, so there's legal precedent for this. (eBay vs. Bidder's Edge) It doesn't require legislation; a widely used standard would be sufficient. This is a task for W3C.

Direct install via CD should have a similar convention, but that's harder to do. First, fix it in web browsers.

Re:Needed: Automatic "EULA-reject" mode

[nagora]

We need a mode for both web browsing and installs that rejects any end user license agreement in a legally enforceable way.

EULA's themselves are not legally enforcable so there's no need.

TWW

Re:Needed: Automatic "EULA-reject" mode

[Animats]

EULA's themselves are not legally enforcable so there's no need.

You wish.

• ProCD vs Zeidenberg.
• Blizzard vs. battleNet

The general trend in the courts seems to be roughly as follows:

• EULA agreed to by a click - enforceable.
• EULA on outside of box, seen before purchase - enforceable.
• EULA inside box on paper - probably not enforceable, burden of proof on vendor to demonstrate agreement.
• EULA inside box on paper and contains terms allowing vendor to change contract terms - not enforceable, no possibility of agreement.
• EULA on website, with claim to implicit agreement - probably not enforceable, but repeated accesses to web site may signify acceptance of terms.

warp records are doing it the right way

[Anonymous Coward]

Warp records of aphex twin, squarepusher etc. fame have the right idea.. they sell DRM free high quality MP3s at cheap prices on their bleep service, I wish the big record companies would just follow their example. If the big record companies can't give the public what they want, sooner or later they will cease to exist.

Sony also accused of price-fixing in Britain

[paj1234]

It's an even worse day to be Sony, in the UK. Today's newspapers have headlines like "Sony accused of Internet rip-off" and "End to online bargains as Sony forces prices higher".

According to The Times, "the practice of charging different prices to Internet retailers and high street stockists -- known as dual pricing -- was started by Sony and has been followed by other manufacturers." Here's the article:

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-1872549, 00.html

Re:Sony also accused of price-fixing in Britain

[BlogPope]

Interesting, but likely to backfire. Those manufacturers that don't dual price will have products that are available at a bigger discount online, and hence be perceived as a "better value". I could by the $500 Samung Home theater for $400 online, or the $500 Sony version for $470. This could eventually create a dual market, "retail" brands like Sony that shun the discounters, and "channel" brands that sell at bargain prices on the internet but are shunned by retailers who know consumers won't buy via bricks, perfering cheaper clicks sources. This is hardly unprecedented (lots of brands and products limit their distribution) but I seriously doubt Sony has the brand strength to pull it off, they have a hard time pulling the 20% premium over their competitors they used to as the Koreans move up market and the Japanese competitors rally. Of course, they way they've been losing market share lately, maybe they don't see any other choice.

thanks Sony, whitenoise from now on. Jerks.

[Anonymous Coward]

"it has been my experience that music CDs are always making it into secured areas and being played on secure machines."

Not anymore!

Hope he doesn't get involved solo

[Anonymous Coward]

He might settle for $50k.

What Sony Owns....

[Anonymous Coward]

From the Columbia Journalism Review website:

Film

        * Sony Pictures Entertainment
        * Columbia TriStar
        * Sony Pictures Classics
        * Screen Gems

Television

        * Sony Pictures Television
        * AXN
        * Animax Japan
        * SoapCity
        * GAME SHOW NETWORK (50% with Liberty Media)
        * Movielink (jointly owned with Paramount Pictures, Sony Pictures Entertainment, Universal Studios and Warner Bros. Studios)

Music

        * Sony BMG Music Entertainment (50% with Bertelsmann)
            Labels include: Arista Records, BMG Classics, BMG Heritage, BMG International Companies, Columbia Records, Epic Records, J Records, Jive Records, LaFace Records, Legacy Recordings, RCA Records, RCA Victor Group, RLG - Nashville, Sony Classical, Sony Music International, Sony Music Nashville, Sony Wonder, So So Def Records, Verity Records
        * Sony/ATV Music Publishing (joint venture with Michael Jackson)
        * Music Choice (venture with Time Warner, EMI, Motorola, Microsoft, and several cable companies: Cox, Comcast, Adelphia, Time Warner Cable)

Other

        * Sony Electronics
        * Sony Computer Entertainment America
        * PlayStation
        * 989 Sports
        * Sony Connect Inc.
        * Metreon

I feel so old

[tomcres]

There was a time when Sony was considered to be top-quality bar none. There was Sony, and then there was everything else. You would pay a little more for it, but in general, almost without exception, the Sony product was quantifiably better than the competitors' products. This was true when I was growing up in the 80's and even into the early 90's.

Funny, I seem to recall Sony's decline beginning probably around the same time as their introduction to the video game console market. I, for one, was particularly dumbfounded when I first saw the PlayStation and thought to myself "how can they compete against Sega with this crap?" The jaggies and just AWFUL chiclet-style controllers were just garbage compared to Saturn. Looking back, that was probably the point at which Sony marketing and branding overtook their prior commitment to quality.

Re:I feel so old

[Prophet of Nixon]

I have never understood the success of the PS1... I quit paying attention to the console market for a few years after the Genesis & SNES, and never really saw its rise to power. From the bit I messed with it, everything 3D it tried to do was absolutely terrible, and I wondered why anyone would buy it. By the time I paid attention to it again, it was wildly successful and everyone was talking about how the PS2 would be backwards compatible with it. I had a Dreamcast at that point, which I liked a lot. Looked through the PS1 games (to its credit, it did have around 4 good games), looked at the PS2 launch lineup, and wondered how the hell it was ever going to succeed, and why anyone cared about the backwards compatibility (whooo, it plays new crap AND old crap!). I don't understand their success at all. I don't hate the PS2, I got a free one a few months ago and there are a few terrific games on it (especially Gradius V), I just don't understand how it survived on the game market long enough to produce those good games, especially with the splendid Dreamcast already there (and then it went away, WTF?)...

Re:I feel so old

[jr87]

Because Sony had/has amazing marketing for the PS the PS2 and the upcoming PS3. They could put shit in a box and it would sell decent. I'm not saying these systems aren't good, but they were hyped into something revolutionary when they weren't really.

I love it..

[bmantz65]

In order to circumvent piracy, they try to be sneaky and put this rootkit garbage on people's PC's whenever they PAY for the CD. Now they just got in a bigger mess and the result is that if you wanted to the "right" thing and buy a CD, you're at bigger risk if you wanted to download it. Hilarious.

Not just Van Zants

[whitehatlurker]

The random sampling of copy protected CDs I just did on amazon shows a large number of similar messages. The word is getting out.

I wonder if the backlash will be enough for all artists to do what the Flecktones did:
"Frustrated when he bought a copy-protected Dave Matthews release and couldn't copy it to his Apple iPod, Fleck insisted that Sony not release his new album with such restrictions"

Re:Not just Van Zants

[gvibes]

Bela Fleck just dropped several pegs in my mind. DMB? Ick.

*plink* *plink* my $0.02

[Tsiangkun]

People infected with a rootkit should be re-imbursed from Sony Music for the cost of the removal service, provided by whom ever the person chooses to use to remove the kit.

  Rootkits are designed to avoid detection, and only an idiot would trust a company destributing rootkits to provide them with software to remove the rootkit. For all I know, they just changed the cloaking mechanism, and left the machine vulnerable to attacks, still running the rootkit.

  Shouldn't Sony pay the cost of having machines backed up, wiping and formating of the drives, re-install of the OS, re-install of the software, re-configure the software, and reimbursement for the time and productivity lost in the process.

  Right now the whole thing is being treated like a childish goof up and a big oops. Sony has installed rootkits, on personal machines and corporate equipment, and they should be paying for the equipment to be restored as deemed necessary by the owner. Simply giving a link to a download that claims to remove the rootkit is entirely insufficient.

too bad...

[tomcres]

it's not the Brotherhood of NOD32.. we could use some to defend ourselves against the onslaught of viruses the Sony rootkit made possible..

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[swillden]

I would like to point out that at Sony's size, the different divisions have little or nothing to do with each other.

Irrelevant.

Not that the people working in the other divisions, who didn't make such stupid decisions, deserve to be punished, but the way to stop companies from doing crap like this is to hit them where it will hurt the top-level decisionmakers: their stock price. To do that, you have to damage their profits, and the best way to do *that* is to decrease their revenues by not buying their stuff. If Sony's stock takes a 20% drop as a result of some decisions by the entertainment division, the C-level execs will take action, and if they don't then the board of directors will, and if *they* don't, the stockholders will. If it gets nasty enough, no one in Sony will ever again dare to do something that has even the remotest possibility of bringing that sort of shitstorm down on their heads.

Not that I believe a lot of "boycott Sony" shouting and posturing on slashdot will really affect their revenues noticeably, much less their stock price. But still, the theory is sound, even if follow-through is insufficiently widespread to make any difference.

Stock market still relatively unfazed by Sony flap

[greyfeld]

I just did some looking on my Ameritrade account at the headlines for Sony and there is nothing about any of this since 11/2/05. Apparently, this is a non-event for investors. Sad, very sad.

Greenland

[moosesocks]

It seems as though Greenland seems completely immune to this rootkit (and bad music for that matter)

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[alw53]

I believe that Lincoln instituted the first US Income Tax, see for example: http://www.jpfo.org/alert20010212.htm, well in advance of the constitutional amendment that made it legal for him to do so. Lincoln had very little regard for civil rights -- his main concern was preserving the empirexxxxxunion.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Dachannien]

(hint: It doesn't begin with the letter "P" or end in a "3")

Ahh, I see you've opted to go with the Laystation 69.

Try getting the $5 they agree to be libable for in

[Anonymous Coward]

the EULA.
You had to pay someone to remove the rootkit ...

Word of mouth ain't trivial

[loose_cannon_gamer]

Just had to jump on here for a minute... Many of the posts today are what we, the 'enraged geeks of society' should do about Sony's practices. Might I suggest one -- post on slashdot.

You laugh, but I call a recent article on Tom's Hardware into witness. The reason that the graphics card companies (nVidia, ATI) go so intensely after that performance crown is that the people who care deeply about it tend to be influencers -- I think the article claimed something like those graphics card companies can be assured of 20 mainstream target purchases due to the influence of one high-end customer.

Point being, people here care, and deeply, about the stuff Sony has been up to, and in many of these markets, *we* are the influencers.

If your company gets bad press on Slashdot, and you do technology, that's not just bad, that's very very bad, because for every post and every reader, there may well be 20 or more people who are going to stop doing business with you. And if you get repeated bad articles, over and over again, well, golly. This is only worse when there is a choice in the market, and for almost everything Sony makes, somebody else makes something like it.

Mass Returns to Wal-Mart

[bigbigbison]

I think the most effective thing to do would be for everyone to try to return their broken cds to Wal-Mart. They are the largest music retailer in America. Even if they don't take them back, if enough people do it, you will piss off Wal-Mart and Sony doesn't want to piss off Wal-Mart.

How about an OS that just plays a music CD

[RichMan]

If the CD is a valid music CD and will play in a standard player,

Why is the operating system trying to run a program from the CD?

You should be able to set the OS to treat music CD's as music CD's and ignore any other content.

This is all due to MS advanced features messing the user over. Pressure should also be placed on Microsoft to treat music CDs as music CDs.

Perhaps a configuration to easily switch between
1. Play Music
2. Access any Autorun features
3. Offer option of 1 or 2

Re:How about an OS that just plays a music CD

[Reziac]

RIAA exec: Your list is too short. Where is the step for "Profit!" ??

Re:How about an OS that just plays a music CD

[AFCArchvile]

One now-odious trend that was started around 1995 was the "Enhanced CD", which was a multisession music CD with a primary redbook music session, and a data session that would be recognized as a CD-ROM when inserted into multisession-capable CD-ROM drives. I'm not that versed in how Enhanced CD tells the computer to recognize the data session, but I do know that the CD-ROM drive must be multisession capable (every drive after about 1996 is capable). When you inserted the CD into a Windows 95 computer, the data session would be loaded, and whatever was scripted in AUTORUN.INF would run. I'm inclined to believe that Microsoft had a hand in this by creating autorun, as that would not only make installing software easier, but would create the impression of a hands-free multimedia experience for all the luddites. Some Enhanced CDs contained things like music videos, movie cast interviews, and so on, but much more of this was devoted to promotional advertising.

One other way to have music and data on the same disc was to have a "mixed-mode CD", which would have track 1 as the data and tracks 2-99 as music. Many PC games from 1996 onward did this, as having the CD play presented less CPU overhead than WAV/MP3/MOD music, and sounded better and more consistent from system to system than MIDI. Of course, these CDs ended up having track 1 used for data, which would sound like either silence or noise when played on a regular CD player, depending on whether the CD player would screen out the data track as noise.

When the copy protection rush started to develop, music companies used the multisession hole combined with AUTORUN.INF in Windows to present "media players" that would obscure the music track and force the user to agree to a EULA and load some proprietary player to play less-than-CD-quality tracks with a monitored player that would phone home. When combined with a non-redbook CD-audio track that had spurious errors injected, this provided the "ultimate unrippable CD". Well, throw in Linux and Mac users either getting around the autorun hole or having their systems crash due to the protection, along with consumer outrage at not being able to play the "spurious error" CDs in any multi-speed CD player, along with this new debacle, and you have a big conundrum.

Apple's OS X already has an option to show all sessions on a CD as different CD icons when a disc is loaded. Microsoft still hasn't done anything like this for Windows, nor have they considered ditching the security vulnerability that is Autorun.

If I remember correctly, Macromedia was responsible for the whole "Enhanced CD" craze.

Re:How about an OS that just plays a music CD

[justins]

This is all due to MS advanced features messing the user over. Pressure should also be placed on Microsoft to treat music CDs as music CDs.

1. Autorun is not an "advanced feature". It's also not particularly difficult to turn off.
2. These aren't music CDs. They are hybric music/data CDs.

Perhaps a configuration to easily switch between
1. Play Music
2. Access any Autorun features
3. Offer option of 1 or 2

You can already turn off autorun. They could put a big toggle switch on the start menu but that would be stupid.

Re:How about an OS that just plays a music CD

[KZigurs]

No, you are wrong. Audio CD (think red book) will be played as audio cd no matter where and what (granted the dye material is compatible with the particular readers optical pickup - which it should, if the reader confirms to any specification at all too).

The true problem is that I would be so brave as to claim that about a THIRD of the CD's and DVD's on the reputable musical store here DOESN'T confirm to the red book or dvd forum's spec regarding video disks - and, if you'll look closely - about a half of those discs doesn't even feature "CD-DA" logo. This is the true root of the problem, that we are accepting and buying something that doesn't contains the media we would expect it to contain (and occassionally even marks it so on the packaging).

Some customer awareness campaign from Philips (buy true CD's) and corresponding actions against those that put CDDA logo on noncompliant packages seems to be the best way of action here. Philips? Are you listening!?

Re:How about an OS that just plays a music CD

[Vo0k]

Once upon a time quite a few games (notably, Half-Life 1) used that format for keeping the soundtracks. First track was the game installation, the remaining were played as soundtrack for the game (and the CD wasn't just a useless CD drive stuffer as auth key)

where's the cyber police?

[wardk]

shit, if this was DVD Jon, or some leet haxor there would be a top 10 most wanted poster going up for them.

put the director in charge of this fisaso under the hot lights of interogation.

and it's time to send Sony the BILL for the cleanup. every fucking inflated nickel. I know the downtime I have had from reading about this is costing me millions. maybe billions if it keeps on. based on suggested retail cost of course.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Anonymous Coward]

mop3 players huh?
stupid sony and their proprietary formats.

Then what are you buying?

[SuperKendall]

Not buying a PS3? Way to make a moral stance!

I hope you were not planning on buying a 360 either then, as well all know about the deprications of Microsoft software and Microsoft remotley locking hacked XBox's off Live.

I guess a Revolution is pretty safe as Nintendo has been just doing thier thing, not really harming anyone... though they aren't very good at open standards support like the non-standard wireless.

You can always find a reason not to buy anything. Insetead why not focus that anger on getting companies not to do the bad thing you don't like anymore?

Sony auto-installing malware from SunnComm...

[hkmwbz]

I couldn't find it mentioned in the comments, so here goes: There is an interesting analysis of a piece of spyware/malware from a scamming company called SunnComm, which describes how it installs itself automatically and silently if you just insert the CD on a Windows system. An EULA is presented, but the software is installed whether you accept it or not, and it reports back to SunnComm.

What's also interesting is SunnComm's history of making bogus announcements about non-existing products to pump up the stock price, and the SunnComm shills trying to discredit the guy who found out about their malware.

Definitely worth a look.

Re:Sony auto-installing malware from SunnComm...

[irobert]

Here's where the story gets worse: the SunnComm software works on Macs, too--although it doesn't autorun--and installs a kernel extension onto Mac OS 10.2 and 10.3 (no 10.4 version has been made--but SunnComm does plan to release one). I spoke with a SunnComm representative for about 30 minutes last Friday. Sony has not stopped production of their CDs.

I haven't been able to find any Mark Russinovich type who's tested the SunnComm software on Windows or Mac OS and find out whether it's as dangerous as the XCP software. Apparently it's not--but it's equally deceptive. Has anyone looked into whether it's actually dangerous? A kernel extension on the Mac OS seems like the equivalent of a rootkit on Windows. Tell me I'm wrong...

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Tsiangkun]

I see Sony attached to all of them, and that's what guilty by association is all about. Boneheaded moves by a completely unrelated group under the Sony umbrella is all the justification I need to never trust a product with the name Sony attached to it.

I can't wait to see the DRM infecting the Playstation 3.

Italian criminal probe requested

[VENONA]

It's widely published that legal actions have begun in California, New York, and Italy. The Italian situation is not just some class-action lawsuit. A complaint was filed with a criminal investigation unit last Friday.

"The complaint alleges that XCP violates a number of Italy's computer security laws by causing damage to users' systems and by acting in the same way as malicious software, according to Andrea Monti, chairman of the ALCEI-EFI. "What Sony did qualifies as a criminal offense under Italian law," he said in an e-mail interview.

Should police determine that a crime has been committed, prosecutors will be required to begin criminal proceedings against Sony, Monti said."

Sony has declined to comment.

From:
http://www.computerworld.com/securitytopics/securi ty/story/0,10801,106064,00.html?source=NLT_PM&nid= 106064

Could this help Sony?

[tahooie2]

It has been said regarding the media "It doesn't matter what you say about me as long as you say something about me" (source unknown). The logic is that people forget what was said about a person/company, but by simply becoming more familiar with the name they will be more likely to support the person/buy products from the company in the future. In six months when everybody forgets this whole rootkit thing people may actually buy more Sony products just because they have heard the name mentioned so many times.

Uninstaller risk is a non-issue

[Sloppy]

The Sony/XCP uninstall process requires you to fill out a web form that uses an ActiveX control. That control has several serious security issues including the ability to run arbitrary code and even a handy built-in reboot function.

If you have this software on your machine, then that machine is already compromised, with risks every bit as great as running untrusted code from a strange website with full privileges. It is waay too late to worry. You already ran arbitrary code.

This is like someone who has AIDS, Herpes, Syphilis, and Hepititus, worrying about catching Gonorrhea.

Re:Uninstaller risk is a non-issue

[Anonymous Coward]

This is like someone who has AIDS, Herpes, Syphilis, and Hepititus, worrying about catching Gonorrhea.

I think it's more like a doctor injecting you with syphillis, then offering you pennicillin with HIV in it.

"Bad Guy" paradigm shift?

[merc]

I have noticed one aspect from all of this Sony/BMG rootkit fallout that seems to have gone unnoticed; but which I believe is a positive thing:

Up until now the RIAA trade group has been the front-man for all of the label cartels' untenable activities -- it's never been BMG, Geffen, Warner Brothers, Universal, EMI, et al, suing 12 year old girls and old ladies--noo, it's the RIAA.

Up until now whenever the consuming masses are outraged, all they have to derive their seering hatred towards is a large anonymous trade association which exists purely to absorb all of that yucky malevolent P.R.

Finally the pressure is being put on a specific corporate entity who happens to also be an RIAA member, and they will feel the wrath directly. It couldn't happen to a better company (well... okay, perhaps EMI; Bronfman is a real chode smacker).

Comic Tragedy

[sgt scrub]

I'm throwing on the heavy duty flame proof stuff for this so...

I wonder how many /.'rz here have wanted to (more likely have) rooted a windows box and loved it. I wonder how many /.'rz here thought, "how nice it is that Sony has been active in porting Linux to the PS2 and PS3". I wonder how many /.'rz here would have fallen down and ROFL upon hearing that all of those windows boxes were rooted by some business software that "those stupid windows users" purchased. IF! And a big IF! this had nothing to do with DRM, 1 in 10 here would be bitching and the rest would have been all giggles.

If the real reason /.'rz are angry is because of the hypocrisy http://www.hypocrisy.com/start.php?homepage=true then someone needs to toughen up. Raise your hand if you haven't figured out how to rip a "protected" CD. No don't. Your probably busy wanking with it. We piss on the DRM, RIAA, and fellow greedfkrz. They are blind, confused, and desperate for a win against something that doesn't even exist.

I don't care what anybody says. This whole thing is comedy. It's full of buttmunchers banging each other trying to kill pink elephants with scooby snacks. Every time I turn around another one of them has a finger in the other's eye thinking they found something to cling on.

How do we feel about Sony now? (BMG vs. PSP)

[Theovon]

I've bought a fair number of Sony products, and I have generally been satisfied with them. Electronics are good quality, tend not to break, are almost never fault out of the box, etc. I haven't had many dealings with their customer service, however, but I have generally had a good impression of them.

Now, they go and do this. In an overzealous attempt to 'protect copyrights', they so something with results they did not anticipate. Could they have anticipated their results? Even smart people screw up. How about that guy who wrote the first major worm in the 80's? He was just having fun, but it totally got out of hand. If he'd known, he wouldn't have done it.

The real problem isn't the rootkit. Yes, using a rootkit is bad, and we now have painfully clean evidence of the fact that it's just a terrible idea, but more important is the underlying reasoning that lead to their decision to develop it. Protecting copyrights is a good thing. We on slashdot love the GPL, and without copyright law, the GPL would be nothing. It's important for people to be able to control their own works (for a limited period of time!!!). The problem is the idea that underhanded tactics (and they had to know that hacking your computer is underhanded) are the wrong approach to dealing with piracy.

The correct approach to dealing with piracy is to stop the Asian piracy trade, because the amount of piracy there FAR outstrips anything going on on P2P networks. But I digress.

Will Sony learn from their mistakes? Well, certainly, they'll learn that rootkits are a bad idea. But if Sony is going to employ technical means to stop piracy, they're going to have to be a lot more clever. Ideas have been thrown around about inserting bogus files into P2P networks. While that is annoying to those pirating music, it doesn't infect their computers with viruses and cause millions of dollars in damage.

Rather than trying to make it IMPOSSIBLE to pirate music, the more successful forms of DRM have simply made it inconvenient; for instance, to P2P share something from iTunes, you'd have to first burn it to CD, and then rip it back off, thereby requiring extra steps and reducing resultant audio quality. That seems to have been an effective deterrent.

There's a small chance that Sony will mature a little bit and realize that DRM, or at least certain forms of it, costs more than the money lost on piracy. But we'll see.

And also, keep in mind that Sony is a big company. Maybe BMG sucks, but the PSP absolutely ROCKS, and you can't deny it. :)

Re:*plink* *plink* my $0.02

[TheHawke]

Big oops, my ass.. Airnail their butts to the wall with your pocketbook and stock trades. This breaking story aint getting the airtime that it truly deserves because you stock traders hardly pay any attention to the geek news sites.

Thats why we got the class-action suits cookin' 'cuz Sony ain't listening.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[Anonymous Coward]

Just read your comment history, and you sir are a douchebag.

Most of your comments revolve around attacking the delivery of the argument rather than the content of it. That's an old school crap debate technique used to cover the fact that you don't know what your talking about, just that you don't like the opposing opinion.

The topics you do talk about with a sense of elightenment all revolve around some ancient ass technology that you would like to be brought back to relevancy with some sort of cultural time machine. Get off it bub, enterprising geeks have made it easier for the less technically inclined to share in the activities your antisocial ass used to define yourself, and used to re-enforce your own inflated sense of superiority.

No one gives a shit about the ancient ass game your sig lends itself to.

No one gives a fuck about your attempt to draw a line at who's a "real" geek and who isn't. Guess what, those in the know also know who else is in the fucking club. Those who are too busy trying to regulate the roster definitely aren't. Who the hell nominated you the official "posting method police"?

BTW, corporations have no reason to build anything for anyone, since people don't matter.

How big of an idiot are you? Who the hell do you think purchases all the goods and services that corporations provide? Do you even understand the socioeconomic roles corporations play, or do you just keep rehashing something Mr. Chompsky said in a book that you didn't read but instead got off the documentary you rented from netflix?

Lastly, I posted this AC because if you really are the "geek" you claim to be, you should have no problem identifying me in the following weeks while I tear your lame ass blog a new one, you pretentious prick.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[farble1670]

bah.

this is the same excuse used by many companies to excuse treating you like crap. it seems like in the last 5 years, anytime i have an issue with a company be it support, or whatever, the answer i get boils down to "not my fault". oh, the problem was caused by our partners, not us. oh, that is another division. oh, that was bob, i'm bill. oh, i just work here. companies hide behind many, many curtains to avoid directly dealing with a consumers problems. don't let them get away with it.

From the EULA

[rozthepimp]

Should the licensed materials prove to be defective, you (and not the SONY BMG party concerned) agree to assume the entire cost of all necessary servicing, repairs or corrections.

Re:How to boycott? Website

[Anonymous Coward]

Digital Restrictions Managment.

Digital Rights Management.

<ConspiracyTheory>

[Tim U.]

1. MS pays the Sony DRM people to include gaping security holes.
2. MS makes sure the story on the holes breaks.
3. MS has their cronies post "boycott PS3" on Amazon, Slashdot, blogs, etc.
4. People decide to buy the XBox 360 instead of waiting for the PS3.
</ConspiracyTheory>

Re:Shenanigans

[Anonymous Coward]

Pistol-whipped, eh?

"Shenanigans, Shenanigans, Shenanigans"

Yeah, that's what I thought.
--

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Guppy06]

"Ah yes. An AMERICAN."

Somebody from Texas does something you don't like. Abroad, everything from Texas or New York or even Saipan is only labelled "made in the USA." Additionally, federal taxes collected from businesses in New York still benefit those folks in Texas.

Now, would you like to go even further out of your way in the course of your boycott to make sure that you only penalize those businesses from Texas, or do you want to make sure that everybody in the US, regardless of what state they're in, is penalized for allowing Texas to do what it does and helping them to do it?

Just because there are times when you should ask whether the scalpel or the chainsaw is the best tool to use doesn't mean the chainsaw is always the wrong choice.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[antonymous]

I wouldn't be so sure about that comment. If your tinfoil hat were properly fastened, you could understand how this DRM could be used as some sort of leverage in the pending PS3-XBOX360 wars. Granted, I have nowhere near the insight to know how this could be used, but it could, right?

To me, a rootkit is a hacker's toy, period. Why wouldn't Sony want their foot in the door (or Window)? They could really wreak some havoc, and who doesn't love that?

Let's say the new 360 allows a user to take music files from your computer (running XP) and play them on your 360. Now let's say Sony's servers (accessed by the rootkit) issue a command saying, "not with OUR music you can't" - and suddenly this becomes some sort of compatibility issue for M$ to figure out. If M$ had discovered this rootkit later on, they would say, "It's Sony's fault that XYZ compatibility fault is occurring!"

And we would all laugh at them.

Re:How to boycott? Website

[Anonymous Coward]

Draconian Restrictions Malware?

Re:Shenanigans

[Irish_Samurai]

"Hey Rodney, what's the name of that restraunt you like to go to all the time? You know, the one with all the goofy shit hanging on the walls?"

[OT] Sig

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't choose anarchy. Anarchy chooses you.

In Soviet Russia, you choose anarchy!

Information on Sonymusic.com unreachable:

[drijen]

i've been trying to get at www.sonymusic.com/royalties/ for some time now, but its been 404 all day.
Opening it in links2 it has a short message about the computer virus circulation becuase of XCP. I can't read any further though, because its all in java and horribly messed up frames.
Anyone else manage to reach this area of the site?

Re:I agree! Throw the Sony execs in Jail!

[flosofl]

You actually installed it? Even with the *huge* security hole it leaves in its wake? I thought the recommendation was to wait until a real un-installer was made, rather than this hacky piece-o-crap "patch" from Sony.

I've got this web site you should visit...

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Anonymous Coward]

You may have other reason not to buy a PS3

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/11/12/new_sony_lock ware_pr.html

Re:

[Anonymous Coward]

What's more likely, your bullshit, or?:

1: Sony VP of IP decides customers need some "discipline".
2: People realize Sony shit broke their OS.
3: People post "boycott PS3" on Amazon, Slashdot, blogs, etc.
4: People decide to buy the Nintendo Revolution instead of the PS3 or Xbox 360.

Sony should pay tens of billions in damages

[Retired Replicant]

The RIAA is so cavalier about sueing grandmothers for tens of thousands of dollars, so why should Sony's customers, and those whose systems were put at risk by Sony's malware be any less cavalier about suing this company enough to make all the executives and stockholders cry for mercy. Hit the stockholders, and they will take care of the executives very quickly. Sony's stockholder's should sue the personal estates of the executives who made this incompetent and most likely illegal decision. If the music companies want to play hardball, then they should be ready to get hit in the teeth when they violate the law.

I also read that the code used in Sony's malware infringed on the LGPL because they did not freely distribute the source code along with the executable, so that is another violation of the copyright and intellectual property laws Sony love so much.

Door in the Face

[Anonymous Coward]

I think the term is "Door in the Face" - as opposed to "Foot in the Door"

Interesting synopsis here: http://www.as.wvu.edu/~sbb/comm221/chapters/twoste p.htm

Re:Door in the Face

[Anonymous Coward]

Mod parent up, this is the correct term for the phenomenon. Anchoring and adjustment is something else entirely.

artists properly compensated?

[blitz487]

I do not plan to do so until three conditions are met. First, artists are properly compensated for their music.

I don't understand the point of this. Artists are not the victims, they are aiders and abettors. They freely and voluntarilly sign up with the big labels. If they don't like the terms of the contract, or if they don't like the RIAA or DRM, they simply do not have to sign up with them.

If the artists stop signing up with those labels, and instead form their own label that has no DRM etc., then the power of those labels will drastically decline.

Re:artists properly compensated?

[Em Adespoton]

It's called a Cartel. Just like the diamond merchants do everything they can to restrict the injection of "other" diamonds into the marketplace, RIAA companies restrict the airplay and venues available to new artists. This means that in most cases, if you want to make a living off of your music, you have to sign with an RIAA member, in order to get the startup financing, airplay, and venues that are generally required to become popular. Most artists eventually give up and sign, even if they don't like the conditions of the contract.

However, with the advent of internet-based human networking (IM, blogs, etc.), this is starting to change. You still can't get the old airplay and venues, but it is now affordable to distribute your music over the internet, using word of mouth to increase demand. Similarly, you might not be able to book the good venues, but with blogs etc., people can find the alternative venues that don't get ad-time in newspapers, on the radio, or on TV.

So in summary, artists often are victims, but with the new technologies of the last 10 years, more and more artists are able to emancipate themselves and survive.

End of DRM?

[robbo]

I've been thinking that this move by sony might be the last the nail in the coffin for DRM, and this got me wondering whether there was some method behind the madness- surely the drm people at Sony would have known that this kind of stuff would be frowned on, and then to release bad fixes, violate the LGPL, etc, etc, seems a little too over the top to be for real. Maybe someone at Sony decided that to take a hit like this would have other desirable consequences (for sony) that reach beyond the bottom line of the music division. I can't for the life of me imagine what they would be though...

Re:End of DRM?

[Torinir]

At the very least, I hope it will be the end of the RIAA/MPAA witch hunt. I thought we left McCarthy-ism back in the days of the "Red Scare."

One would reasonably expect that we, having knowledge of the errors of our predecessors, would avoid repeating those mistakes. Obviously, it'll take something cataclysmic for the leadskulls in Sony to wake up and realize that alienating your customer base will only kill your business. Maybe losing all the lawsuits and most of their customers will finally make Sony see the light regarding their attitude in general.

It probably won't, but miracles have happened before. ^_^

Re:End of DRM?

[Vo0k]

Some friendly hacker souls up there somewhere in the ladder of Sony lower management and upper programming divisions decided they have a way to finally murder DRM and DMCA by creating a copyright protection tool so inherently evil (and still legal) that everyone would get pissed off and move towards killing the conceptions that allowed for creation of it.

Re:Confidential, Secret, Top Secret, SAR, Intel, e

[Maxo-Texas]

And yet another poster on this thread says it happens all the time.

Something special for all you Execs at Sony

[andrelix]

F U sony, F U BMG, F U all those that want to control my life...

Microsoft's involvement coincidental?

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it possible that Microsoft is (behind the scenes) offering to help Sony with its patches in exchange for Sony dropping Blu-Ray support and joining Microsoft in supporting HD-DVD ?

Was this Sony crap malware on Everquest 2 media?

[Retired Replicant]

I'm just asking because I haven't bought any Sony/BMG music CDs rescently, but I did install Everquest 2 about 6 months ago.

Re:How to boycott? Website

[shotfeel]

That's what I've been telling people it means. Its actually a more honest description of what it does. Now if we could just get the press to start saying it that way...

I'm off the Sony sauce

[CharimanMeow]

I've had a Vaio for years and loved it. I may be a rare breed in this regard. Because of my experiance with this computer, I've bought a lot of other Sony products. No more. They lost me. The next laptop I get will not be a Sony, the same goes for cameras, music, etc. Man, it seemed like they were just beginnnig to get their act together...then this.

Doesn't this violate DMCA?

[Dcnjoe60]

"Microsoft said it would remove controversial copy-protection software that CDs from music publisher Sony BMG install on personal computers, deeming it a security risk to PCs running on Windows."

IANAL, but, isn't defeating a vendors copy protection scheme (regardless of how poorly thought out) a violation of the DMCA?

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[aztektum]

Last I checked the PS3 is going to ship with Blu-Ray which is filled with its own DRM restrictions, so essentially his "broad generalization" is fairly accurate IMO.

So who's really breaking the law here?

[C0D3X]

So isn't Microsoft violating the law by removing the Sony copy protection software, even though it's buggy and poses a security threat? Even though their intentions are good?

Should it be a violation of law to circumvent such copy protection schemes, even though they are harmful to the user?
It's still copy protection software, and they're still removing it.

Of course I don't think Sony would take Microsoft to court over this since they put themselves in such a bad position -- it would make them look twice as bad.

I think we finally found the missing link:

1. Sell a CD with copy protection / spyware or virus in one program
2. Antivirus will remove the program, circumventing the copyright measure and therefore breaking the law
3. Sue the antivirus maker for the huge loss of billions of dollars (per second) and the awful personal damages from such a terrible disaster.
4. PROFIT!!!

Re:So who's really breaking the law here?

[Vo0k]

Yep, removing the rootkit is circumventing copy protection countermeasures. DMCA.
Just proves how broken the law is. Bundle your malicious virus with DRM software and sue everyone removing it. Will pay back 10 times the fine you'd be charged for creating the virus.

Re:How to boycott? Website

[Anonymous Coward]

"Digital Rights Management."

Heh. And here I thought they were just self-labeling 'Drooling Retarded Morons'.

Thanks for clearing it up for me!
--

The *foot*?

[n8willis]

I'd say this comes closer to shooting yourself in the face.

Howard Stringer

[gamer4Life]

Looks like the new CEO isn't doing his job. Or maybe he's doing exactly that. He comes from the media business and he's pushing the company toward being a content company, rather than an electronics company. Installing content-protection software was probably one of his initiatives.

So instead of getting rid of what was hurting Sony (content protection), they're embracing it by hiring this bozo for their top position, just because his division "made the most money". Nevermind that it was hurting Sony's other businesses, which was the reason why it made more money.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Koil]

lol...If I had Mod Points, you'd get em. ;)

THATS FUNAY

We Need to Start a Programmers Guild

[slarrg]

As a programmer, I have felt for quite some time that we need to have a "Programmers Guild" similar to the guilds of Medieval times. In the guilds of yore, the professionals of a craft actively monitored the products of other craftsmen and would punish/train/certify those who performed the craft badly. It has always bothered me that the most inept programmers continue to find work in our industry. Sadly, the only people in the industry who seem capable of evaluating a programmer's ability is other good programmers. The people responsible for this crappy code should simply not be allowed to work as programmers ever again. Instead these people will have a resume that proudly proclaims, "Worked to create high quality software with millions of users for Sony," and the managers they interview with will be quite impressed and put them in charge of more programming projects. For the sake of our craft, we desperately need to create a software programmers' guild.

yeah, right

[Anonymous Coward]

That's $500 less for Sony assuming...

1) You're not making this up. This being slashdot, odds are you made this up.

2) It costs Sony $0 to manufacture 32" TVs

3) Nobody else in the supply chain wants to be paid, shipping costs nothing, etc.

Here's your sign......

[StarsAreAlsoFire]

^subject^

I already hated MS, now I also hate sony... Games?

[v3xt0r]

So I guess I won't be buying a PS3 or a new XBox, any good 3d Linux games out at the moment?

Call of Duty 2 would be nice... =/

Catch 22 ?

[Roskolnikov]

OK, I am not a lawyer but thinking aloud I have began to giggle.

1. Sony root kit is a DRM device used to control/limit how one uses the content on Sony/BMG discs.

Circumvention of a DRM device is a clear violation of the DCMA.

2. Microsoft has stated that it will release a *fix* to remove the Sony root kit.

Microsoft is violating the DCMA on your behalf.

So thinking about this, if you play the files without the rootkit on a Windows or Macintosh PC you've violated the DCMA, if you remove the kit you have violated
the DCMA.

Comments?

Re:Catch 22 ?

[LocalH]

It's DMCA.

Re:Catch 22 ?

[Roskolnikov]

thanks, thought something looked wrong, AFTER hitting the submit button.

$p = DCMA; $t = DMCA;
while() { s/$p/$t/g; print }

Nice?

[Snaller]

So if I first hit you with a hammer - and then *stop*, I'm nice?

Boycott? Yeah right...

[Kuukai]

I think that the huge amount of embarrassment caused by this whole thing hitting mainstream news is enough to get Sony management to change their policies, if they even condoned this in the first place. Besides, I doubt very many people will hold to their principles for very long. Sony makes cool stuff. Blizzard was slammed for doing something similar back in the day (though it wasn't as mediafied), and many gamers cried boycott. Who's boycotting now?! Everyone and their grandma plays WoW. Blizzard really hasn't changed much either, but it's many peoples' favorite company. So c'mon, make a new year's resolution you can keep this time. I'll be buying a PS3, and maybe write something about this on the little feedback card, but that's the best I can ask of myself or most of the tech-liking community, it seems.

Why Microsoft will do this

[Dragoonmac]

3 words
HD-DVD vs. Blue-Ray

Why else would Microsoft violate copyright law when they're already in Anti-trust hot water? Because it makes them look like friggen Angels when compared to Sony. With people boycotting sony product, and two different data formats pending, HD-DVD, from the company that doesn't put a rootkit on your PC is going to be a much more appealing bet.

Statement From an Artist

[lo0ol]

This was on the website of The Bad Plus, a group which recently released a Sony album:

(from thebadplus.com)
-------
COPYRIGHT-PROTECTION ACTIVITY?
The American edition of our recent release, "Suspicious Activity?", was copy-
protected by Sony/BMG without our prior knowledge. Unfortunately, we are now
further informed that Windows PC users must be advised that any attempts to
remove the anti-piracy software could result in your having to reinstall the operating
system. Mac users are not affected. The European edition of the disc does not
feature this copy-protection software.

While we would love for you to hear "Suspicious Activity?", we are compelled
to recommend that until a safe protocol is posted on this site that you
think twice before loading the American version of the CD onto your PC--and
we profoundly regret any difficulties that Sony/BMG's copy protection has
created for any Windows users.
------

Note that Sony didn't even tell them what they were doing. I'm sure this is something most artists have experienced, too- now they're stuck suggesting to their OWN FANS not to buy their album. Crazy.

REPORT THE CRIME

[spoonist]

I know I'm jumping in WAY late in this conversation, but if just a few people see this and respond, it'll do some good.

Go to the following sites and complain:

Department of Homeland Security - Select "Security Threats"

US Secret Service - They do computer fraud cases.

FBI

OT, but...

[interactive_civilian]

Ummm... You know they have worked together in the past, don't you? I don't know if you can say they are friends, but they have collaborated on a number of things as well as toured together.

In fact, the reason I found out about Bela Fleck and the Flecktones was from DMB (Fleck did the banjo for the album version of Don't Drink the Water).

So, if DMB is that much of a problem for you, then I wonder why Bela Fleck didn't "drop several pegs in your mind" a number of years ago...

Can't help myself.

[Nazo-San]

I'm sorry, I know it's wrong, but, I'm just enjoying every minute of SONY's pain in this. Right now about the only thing I'd enjoy more is if it were Microsoft whom everyone had just discovered had placed rootkits on everyone's PCs with their latest Internet Explorer. ^_^ Don't get me wrong, I don't want to see SONY die or anything, I just want them taken down a peg to where they have to compete properly again.

Way out of hand

[Anonymous Coward]

Ok i can see basically two possibilities happening from this event. 1. Sony is dealt lawsuit after lawsuit due to the rootkit technology basically destroying personal property, forcing them into being bankrupt, or all the way to liquidation. 2. The DMCA is removed, thus allowing users to protect themselves against these kinds of problems. Let me put #2 another way. A person installs a virus on your computer, and they provide copyright info inside of the virus itself saying that modifying or deleting it would be a violation of the DMCA, you're stuck with the virus or you violate USA law. Although i'm sure someone out there will just take things into their own hands at this point. I mean, essentially, Sony has gone to war and attacked thousands of people. Lives destroyed by their hidden backdoor which let the trojans into their homes. Why doesn't the US launch a missile against those who would destroy our government and our freedom already?

That's because one (or maybe more)of them is lying

[Sycraft-fu]

I'm sure there are people who post on Slashdot who really have worked in facilities doing classified work. Hell the guy who sits across from me at work was cleard TS/SCI when he was in teh Ariforce years ago, and one of our student employees actually has active secret clearence for his internship.

However, for every person on here who legitmately knwos what they are talking about, you have someone who's just making shit up. They want to appear "in the know" and believe they really know how it is, because they heard a story somewhere or something like that. However in the retelling, they pretend like it was them, because of course it makes them seem to be more knowledgable on the topic.

I've had lots of people tell me how things work in regards to secret data, however most of the people doing the telling, I know for a fact have never worked in such a facility. So what they are saying may be based entirely on fiction.

As always, take what you hear on Slashdot with a grain of salt.

Microsoft vs. Sony? That's Odd...

[DorkusMasterus]

It could of course just be me but doesn't it make perfect sense that with an upcoming console war coming up, that Microsoft would be in its best interests to make Sony look like the bad guy (more so than previously, of course)?

I mean, let's be realistic... Microsoft is only concerned about the "safety" of this DRM thing because it gives them a public forum to diss on Sony, and make MS look good in the public eye for their "heroic and quick" answer to the Evil Sony Empire. While I'm not necessarily for one or the other, I do think it's an AMAZINGLY good PR move.

Ouch.

[Niet3sche]

It now appears that at least 568,200 nameservers have witnessed DNS queries related to the rootkit. How many hosts does this correspond to? Only Sony (and First4Internet) knows...unsurprisingly, they are not particularly communicative. ...

Hm. I'd like to see Sony pay for all this bandwidth. I know that if I ran any of these networks involved (e.g. backbone or DNS points), I'd be after Sony for the bandwidth used.

The Bard's Tale

[geminidomino]

"O, it's bad luck to be you
You didn't think this dumb idea through
Now the users are all pissed
Even by Gates you're getting dissed
It seems you really stepped in the poo

O, it's bad luck to be, really bad luck to be, it's a freakin guarantee, it's bad luck to be YOU!"

Because shit like this wasn't forseen

[Sycraft-fu]

Part of the design of a CD was that it could be mixed format. You could have a data section and a music section. Many older games used this, prior to MP3. You'd put your game code in the data section and load it all to the hard disk or memory, and then play the music section for background music. Worked really well, Syndicate Wars was one I remember that did it. As an added benefit users could sub in their own CDs.

So, the standard is setup such that audio-only players just ignore all non-audio tracks and start playing the audio. Computers check for a data section first, and if it's there present that to the user. Makes sense right?

Well, it did for years until the assholes in the music industry got all paranoid about digital copying and started up with the copy protection shit.

At this point, it may well be that what's needed is something like what you suggest. However the DMCA might make that illegal. What's REALLY needed is for these people to stop beign cocks and just release plain, non-screwed up audio CDs.

Digital Restrictions Managent

[Martix]

Don't Replicate Me

I for one don't want my "digital rights managed"

Try getting repair parts

[Anonymous Coward]

I have had a nightmare time getting parts to repair Sony pro video equipment. First off, the manuals are outrageous. How outrageous? How about $1200 for a single VCR, is that outrageous enough? Let's say you then find the part number, good luck getting the part, even if you want to pay the crazy prices. I have had so many firms tell me to scrap their equipment after researching the cost of replacement parts that I no longer even work on Sony gear. Every other Japanese/Korean/Chinese company has worked with me, but Sony stands out as the only one to basically tell me to get lost.

Of course I no longer buy Sony, and tell everyone I run into to treat Sony as the source of last resort.

Don't expect a DMCA case

[AngryNick]

Sony will choose to ignore this violation of their DMCA rights. What's funny is that, assuming M$ offers the removal tool to all Windows users (as opposed to secretly whacking the rootkit with the next SP), then the users will be in violation of the Sony EULA...the same EULA that says you must delete the licensed materials from your computer if you declare bankruptcy or fail to install updates to the rootkit(see Article 9, paragraphs 2 and 3).

New sig:
--
Days since my last Sony purchase: 602

Re:Don't expect a DMCA case

[Al Dimond]

IANAL but I'm betting the EULA would be struck down as unenforceable. Of couse, that would only happen if Sony tried to enforce it, and Sony seems to be in full retreat mode over this whole fiasco right now.

Re:Don't expect a DMCA case

[Mathinker]

"Sony will choose to ignore this violation of their DMCA rights."

The DMCA also makes it a crime for Microsoft to do that.

Therefore the US gov't must also "choose to ignore this violation".

Not too hard to guess what move they won't make.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[Disoculated]

Lincoln definetly didn't flinch at abridging the rights of the people during the war, but if you follow history at all you'd know that the US of the 1860's was no empire. You're letting your vision of "Amerika" today cloud the past.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[bigg_nate]

It doesn't imply that at all. Let's say that independently, the music division is worth A and the Playstation division is worth B. If the music division screws over the Playstation division for its own gain, the music division is worth A+X and the Playstation division is worth B-Y. If X>Y, Sony's shareholders benefit, otherwise they lose.

This is simply the Sony Business model

[seabreezemm]

This type of tactic that was used with this virus ware is nothing new for Sony. It wasn't a simple mistake or an accident or simple bad judgment. Sony has a long history of this type of strong arm tactics in almost every branch of the company. Another example in particular is the SOE entertainment branch that runs Everquest and Everquest 2. Throughout the game of Everquest Sony placed spyware on machines in a form that captured user specifics about their computers, connections, and names, credit card information and other personal data. When confronted about this collection of information on the Everquest players they quickly turned tail and ran into the legal jungle of vague response and said it was needed to properly manage the game environment and accounts. This of course was complete garbage. It was a campaign to collect, sell and profit from this data. To this day that data collection continues according to the very EULA they force you to agree too in order to play any of the games they now operate. Not only did Sony collect data and lie about its purpose but they also actively engaged tactics to force players into huge fees to simply be able to allow the players to be able to sell the very software they had already purchased. This is just one of more then 20 easy to find examples of Sony's business model that exploits abuses and damages the public's security, welfare and privacy.

Guaranteed way to find files on any CD?

[Hosiah]

Well, I don't know about anybody else, but I rounded up every CD in the house with the word "Sony" on it and quaranteed them (only found six of them, and they all came free as gifts. funny, could our good taste in music be protecting us?). I don't care what albums or which rootkit or what company the DRM virus comes from; I want no part of *any* of it, and the only reason we know about this today is through the detective work of the original blogger. What if this is just the tip of the iceberg? I'm usually the last one to grab for the tin-foil-hat, but I'm paranoid as f**k about this. What scares me now is what I *don't* know.

So, OK, my plan is to mount each suspected CD on my Linux box and view the CD directory using Emacs in directory-edit-mode. Any executable binaries on them, I'll load them in hexl-mode and check them out.

My question: To the best of everybody's knowledge, is this a fool-proof, guaranteed method of finding this crap? Does any known technology exist that could hide from this method?

PS Ironically, I've always been dead against downloading *any* music, religiously buying the albums shrink-wrapped at the store - until today. Now, I'm figuring that I'm better off taking my chances with the warez/cracker network and ripping the tunes for free like a common thief than trusting one more corporation to run any media file on my computer again.

But that's the point of malware software

[Sycraft-fu]

To protect users from themselves. I run Windows at home and at work and have NO anti-malware software, yet I don't get malware on my system. Why? Well I don't install things that have it, doing computer support, I have a pretty good idea what is and isn't a risk. However I do install it for many of our users. The reason isn't to protect them against some kind of magic backdoor infection, it's to protect them from doing something they shouldn't.

Well I can easily see a clueless user inserting the CD, opening it up since it shows up, and running Start.app. I mean, that's what you do right? That's the program they've been taught to run. The password will do nothing, clueless users treat it like any other hoop to jump through and just ignore it.

So that's where malware detectors come in, they are a last line of defense. They stop the user from making the mistake of installing bad software (hopefully).

Re:But that's the point of malware software

[Proteus]

Well I can easily see a clueless user inserting the CD, opening it up since it shows up, and running Start.app. I mean, that's what you do right? That's the program they've been taught to run.

Not in the Mac world. By default, inserting an audio CD just opens iTunes. Clicking 'Start.app' is an unusual thing for a Mac user to do, partly because installing software on the Mac is usually a DnD operation, not the running of an installer. I'd wager that most Mac users would not even bother to open the CD in Finder, much less double-click a file that they haven't been instructed to do anything to.

It isn't, as you suggest, something they've been taught to run.

As for the password part, I agree that it's mostly a hoop. However, it's a hoop users are used to when changing system settings or installing software. Users advanced enough to have opened an audio disc in finder and run an application merely called 'Start.app' will know this, and wonder why software is being installed.

The risk, to me, is the thought that "hey, maybe this CD has a Mac screensaver or something on it, I'll just go ahead and install that...". Still there is a world of difference between allowing automatic installation (as in Windows) and playing on users' stupidity.

Where is the +1 depresive mod?

[Anonymous Coward]

No text

Publicly Acknowledge the Wrong and Fire the Exec

[Seraphnote]

Have they publicly acknowledged they did wrong?
Have they fired the executive who approved this idiocy?

Sony will need to do this if they ever want my business, my family's business, or my employer's business again. And this includes EVERYTHING SONY.

Why should a corporation who does this to their customers, have customers?

Serious vul in the tool to remove the rootkit

[poppycock]

According to the link below, the tool to remove XCP is itself *seriously* flawed from a security point of view:

http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=927

The more important question

[Nkwe]

While everyone is whining (rightly so) about what Sony has done, why is there not obvious and loud whining about what Microsoft has done? How come by simply inserting a disk into a CDROM drive, Windows will read the disk and automatically execute code as a privileged user? The Sony DRM stuff is evil and hooks into and hides at the kernel level. It is more evil that kernel level drivers are automatically installed by Windows by the mere insertion of media with no user interaction or confirmation. There is no excuse for this.

Of course they are.

[AltGrendel]

They wanted this on every computer. Not use the folks who listen to Green Day.
And you can bet dollars to doughnuts that this won't stop Sony, not for long.

talking of boycotts...

[16K Ram Pack]

If there's one things that will result in me telling someone at a company that my business with them is over, it's a company passing the buck to their suppliers or another division.

I count any company that does it as utter chicken shit, unworthy of my custom. I have far more respect for a company that apologises, takes responsibility for the situation, and deals with it.

DMCA anyone?

[cryogenix]

I'm all for MS removing the rootkit, but doesn't Sony now have grounds to go after anyone that makes a tool to remove this under the DMCA? I suppose they could waive rights to it or such... I'm kind of hoping they do so that DMCA proponents can watch in horror as the worst of all possibilities come to fruition. Perhaps we can then look at getting rid of that legislative piece of trash.

Re:How to boycott? Website

[Lemm]

Forgive me my deliberate misspelling, but:

Digital Rongs Management.

Now does Sony's code signing key get revoked?

[Beryllium Sphere(tm)]

Microsoft wants us to think of code signing as a key security measure.

Customers don't benefit much from knowing that their malware came from Sony and wasn't tampered with afterward.

Years ago, Verisign at least used to reserve the right to revoke the signing certificate of malicious ActiveX controls. In one debatable case they did (http://wired-vig.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282 ,1532,00.html).

The Sony incident will be an instructive test of how well code signing protects the world against malicious software.

Dear Sony

[Honkytonkwomen]

Dear Sony,

Please leave the DRM on the Ricky Martin and Celine Dion CDs. If you could make the DRM stronger so that they can't be played on ANY device, that would be even better.

Sincerely,

Everyone

The Norwegian Økokrim went after DVD-Jon

[Anonymous Coward]

Who's the doochebag that went after DVD Jon?

Økokrim, The Norwegian National Authority for Investigation and Prosecution of Economic and Environmental Crime did, after they got a call from Espen Tøndel in the law firm Simonsen & Musæus (link leads to Simonsen and Føyen; are they the same firm now?).

Mr. Tøndel is MPAA's attorney in Norway.

The Økokrim decided to prosecute, the chief prosecutor was Inger Marie Sunde (University of Oslo; she is no longer listed on Økokrim's web pages)

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[dada21]

Am I the only one who saw that as a disturbing statement? You spend 40 hours a week, which amounts to having a second job

I'm an owner in various businesses and find myself with a lot of "free time" between jobs. The 3-6 hours a day I spend researching human action pays greater dividends than any business, considering it increases my worth in publishing and speaking deals. I never went to college and I'd say the 4-7 years wasted in college learns nothing but socialist indoctrination is far scarier.

First off, if you wanted an informed opinion, wouldn't reading the opposition make more sense?

I do. I read writings and attend speakings regarding the entire political spectrum. Some friends spend 15 hours+ a week at a bar, I socialize at numerous gatherings where I hear every opinion imaginable. Those functions are part of my "study time."

Sounds a bit too much like brainwashing for me - certainly if someone else was shoving their point of view down your throat that's the word I would use.

I consider it reinforcing against brainwashing. Every day we get beaten down with information regarding our need for government. For the children! Save the teachers! The FDA says... The IRS is your friend... War for freedom...

It is tempting to believe, but I won't let my freedom lose out to the majority's opinion of the week.

I'm no zealot, just an opinion writer. I don't want to make anyone agree ith me, I'd like people to think about their beliefs deeper.

I hate the State. I've worked hard to succeed without taking advantage of the State that takes advantage of everyone.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[dada21]

The war between states is what the southerners like to call the civil war as they viewed things with an emphasis on state rights

I'm not a Southerner. I was born in Chicago to "a hindu and a polock."

Big government did not come in until the 20th century under Theodore Rosevelt. I do not even recall a national income tax before ww1.

Read "The Real Lincoln" by Thomas DiLorenzo. Search it at LRC as DiLorenzo has dozens of articles about the Great Tyrant.

Lincoln hated blacks. He created the Illinois law barring blacks from citizenship. He wanted to deport every black to the Caribbean. His Emancipation Proclamation did not free slaves in the North, only in the seceded South.

Lincoln's primary goal was to turn the U.S. into a mercantilistic all-powerful central governed body. He wanted to tax and spend. He wanted Henry Clay's "American System" of government coin, government banking and a welfare-warfare State.

Buy a copy of The Real Lincoln. If you don't like it, I will buy it back including all shipping. Your jaw will drop.

Re:Publicly Acknowledge the Wrong and Fire the Exe

[hyc]

Fire nothing. These executives belong in jail. The people involved acted intentionally, despite the fact that their actions violate a number of privacy and computer security laws.

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[Rude Turnip]

The problem is that the music division is crippling the hardware division for no legitimate reason and is not becoming more valuable as a result. In other words, if the music division managed to get the hardware division to completely castrate a new Playstation model, they will still release the same mediocre music and harm their own bottom line.

Great solution.

[jotaeleemeese]

Boycott a corporate cracker to support a convicted monopoly abuser.

There is no hope.

Re:Great solution.

[flibuste]

Boycott a corporate cracker to support a convicted monopoly abuser.

Aww I should have thought twice. You are right, there is no hope.

Re:Great solution.

[Lehk228]

i would say go for the revolution, but Nintendo also has a not so good past on monopolistic practices.

still buying a revolution

suck it sony

This is Typical Sony

[SuperFuse2]

Sony has a habit of wanting to control everything. Betamax, Memory Sticks (manufactured exclusively by and for Sony), UMD, blue ray, the PSP, even the new PS3 will have the ability to control all of your media on the machine. The only thing they have learned over the years is that for new technologies to catch on, you do need the support of the other big dogs. What Sony recently learned is that they are going too far in their attempts to "control" their consumers.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[dada21]

"The Machinery of Freedom"

Yes, I have!

It didn't make a big dent in my thinking, but I can respect Friedman as a fellow Market Anarchist. He's maybe a minarchist libertarian to some degree, and I think he's wrong in a few key areas:

1. He doesn't hate the State. I do. In my mind he's too soft in denouncing the damage of the central authority.

2. I'm unsettled about his desire for slow change. I can't support school vouchers or minor cuts in budgets. Sure, it's a reasonable idea, but it lets people become neutral to the damages incurred.

3. Friedman's views on how to handle citizen security isn't solid enough for me.

While we're birds of a feather, we're not on the same timetable.

Site with more than 20 infected titles

[MiliusXP]

I don't know if this site is serious, but they claim to have a list with more than 20 infected title. Here the link : http://www.idiotabroad.com/2005/11/cds-affected-by -the-sony-bmg-spyware/

Pretty $sys$ pictures lol

[Anonymous Coward]

Dan has even put together some pretty pictures of the breadth of the infection

...and someone else has put together t-shirts with pretty "pictures" on them, making this an even worse day for Sony. The shirts feature a large "$SYS$" followed by... You guessed it... "Invisibility Courtesy Sony Corp."!!

Re:Pretty $sys$ pictures lol

[straight_up]

and someone else has put together t-shirts with pretty "pictures" on them, making this an even worse day for Sony. The shirts feature a large "$SYS$" followed by... You guessed it... "Invisibility Courtesy Sony Corp."!!

Yes, and the words are lettered in camouflage! That's half the joke!

boycott everyone

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't buy physical music media anymore. Obviously, the manufacturers can no longer be trusted to not install some malware, so don't buy it from Sony - or from anyone else. You seriously think the others haven't been trying the same tricks and haven't been caught yet? Or at the very least - thinking about doing the same thing?

One year's blunder will certainly turn into next year's normal security policy.

ITunes for me or nothing at all. At least Apple isn't treating me like a criminal.

You did a good thing.

[Inoshiro]

I made the mistake of buying a Sony VEGA TV as a stop-gap replacement for an old 27" that was dying a sad death. Here is what I had:

TV 1 -- component in didn't work.
TV 2 -- degaus circuit didn't work.
TV 3 -- tube out of focus, and colour bleeding. Original store would not take return (London Drugs) claiming I was just lying. Warantee work took 3 weeks, and did not fully fix it. Sony store would not take return.

Sony products are cheaply made crap.

Re:You did a good thing.

[Mister Transistor]

Hear, Hear!

The Sony WEGA's are teh SUCK technically. I just put one out on the curb 2 weeks ago. Planned obsolescence at it's finest!

I had a 32" flat tube that was only 4 years old, and the picture tube was arcing internally! The one thing that can't be fixed or replaced (well, it can, but it's $450.00 for a new tube and $500.00 for a new set).

Turns out that is a very common failure turning up on the professional service fault databases. Sony, when beat about the ears, and subjected to excessive whining, pissing and moaning will sometimes replace tubes that fail beyond the 3 year warranty, it is written.

This is inexcuseable planned obsolescence in my opinion. Shit, we had an old tank of an RCA TV that lasted about 25 years when I was growing up. After refining that technology another 20 years, they can't make a picture tube that lasts more than 4-5 fucking years!?!? Gimme a break.

I used to like Sony, I thought the first open reel video tape, the micro 4" screen portable TV, the first CD Walkman, all of which I own(ed), were the some of the coolest and greatest accomplishments ever in technology.

But due to my recent experiences with their cheap shit CD and DVD players, plus all the fun I had diagnosing and throwing away a TV set that died way before it's time, my opinion of Sony and their various "products" has been mighty dim lately. This DRM rootkit crapola just tears it, I won't have any problems boycotting Sony and all their various instances and apparitions.

Re:You did a good thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

(i am a certified sony audio/video tech)

If you or the previous poster took, or called a reputable sony
repair center you would have found out all those problems can be fixed,
most in less than 15 minutes.

Most probably damaged in shipping.

The arcing tube is usually dirt/dust particles and can be burned off with
the right equiptment (and a bit of tapping the tube by the crt card)

As for not buying a sony, all that happens is ciruit city loses their
investment on that sony tv, sony allready got paid for it.

Re:You did a good thing.

[Mister Transistor]

Laugh! Yes, let the professionals work on it! Bah.

I'm a professional, hummmmm lesseee, Broadcast Engineer, RF Design Engineer, Software Designer, 2-Way Radio Repair Tech, Telephone Systems Tech, TV/Small Appliance Tech, Pinball/Video Game Tech, I could go on, but you get the idea.

That little sign "No User Serviceable Parts Inside..." is NOT for me. I'm NOT a fucking User. The point is, I DON'T call repair centers. I know more than any of the dumbasses that work there. They make stupid assumptions, and finally wind up shotgunning the entire board set since there is a whole warehouse full of them in back. Yeah, it takes some real raw intelligence and mad skillz to be one of those "certified pros".

You must work there, because you made some really stupid assumptions:

Stupid Assumption #1. It was NOT damaged in shipping (It ran for 4 years and died WAAAY too soon).

Stupid Assumption #2. I can carry it in to a sony center (I can't).

Stupid Assumption #3. A dead picture tube can be replaced in 15 minutes (It can't).

Stupid Assumption #4. I am willing to pay more than half the price of the set for repair (I won't).

Stupid Assumption #5. I don't own a "CRT Rejuvenator" (I do) and didn't try it (I did).

Stupid Assumption #6. I didn't try tapping on the neck board (I did).

Stupid Assumption #7. I would settle for such a cheesy fix (I wouldn't).

Stupid Assumption #8. If people don't buy Sony's they still get their money. Maybe in the short term, but when the inventory backs up at Circuit City from people not buying them, like turds in a pipeline the shit will wash backwards, eventually to Sony's doorstep.

apply black hat laws to sony?

[romerom]

Why shoudln't the same rules applied to black hat hackers who compromise and exploit the security of systems be applied towards sony executives? They should really make an example out of these guys so that other corporations and even spyware makers won't attempt anything like this EVER AGAIN.

Re:apply black hat laws to sony?

[GnarlyNome]

Do you honestly think that the same laws will be applied to Sony in the same way that the law would apply to you
Five dollars says that *no* sony executive will spend any time in jail

Buffer Overflows?

[Anonymous Coward]

And the news keep getting worse...
Internet Security Systems are reporting buffer overflows.
Full report here.
This is a cluster fock!

Test?

[Anonymous Coward]

If your right software that needs testing your already doing it wrong... well that was the mantra in the day wasn't it? Testing will never be a valid method of ensureing software is reliable. Its only purpose is to prove to others that your software is what you claim, not to actualy prove what you should already know... so the fault is lazy developers ;) Or a bad idea to start with...

Looks like somebody has something to do with this

[Anonymous Coward]

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/8757/noname6mk. jpg

Re:How to boycott? Website

[AussieVamp2]

Dickhead Recordings Management

spelled S-O-N-Y

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[oneiron]

Most of your comments revolve around attacking the delivery of the argument rather than the content of it. That's an old school crap debate technique used to cover the fact that you don't know what your talking about, just that you don't like the opposing opinion.

OK, this is difficult to sort into words, but I think I'm reading a critique of a person's commenting style that utilizes the very technique of which it is critical. I didn't dig into your history, but it doesn't appear that I need to.

Now, I'm even more confused... Am I doing the same thing?

Re:PS3? No thanks, Sony; you screwed the pooch

[mrchaotica]

Don't forget that Microsoft is fucked up too, so you shouldn't buy an XBox 360 either. If it were me, I'd buy a Nintendo Revolution only.

Re:[OT] Re:How to boycott? mercantilism

[Foobar of Borg]

Roads, bridges and schools can be much better built, maintained and managed by the free market of competition than by the force/coercion market created by government and the cronies of government.

The biggest problem I see here is that there is this little economics concept called a "natural monopoly". Schools I would grant you, but I would have trouble with allowing some of the poorer people to languish in illiteracy since they cannot afford a private school. Plus, there are many people who come from a poor background who are quite talented and would have no way to achieve anything without some form of public school.

Roads and bridges, on the other hand, are natural monopolies. You can't just design a bunch of different competing road systems. It doesn't work in the real physical world. There is a finite amount of space in a city and noone needs multiple roads to go to the same place. Having openly competitive contracts through a government agency, while it does get a little bogged down in red tape, is probably the best way to go. The problem with the current administration is that, in so many cases, they ignore the whole concept of competitive bidding and simply hand lucrative, overpriced no-bid contracts to their cronies who are now making assloads of money on warfare and natural disasters.

I study at last 40 hours a week the various documents that help me reinforce the views I hold dear to me.

With all due respect (and I'm honestly not trying to insult), this is probably part of the problem. If you spend all your time studying things that simply reinforce your views, you are doing your intellect an incredible dis-service. Nothing is ever as simple as a single ideal or philosophy and no matter how good an idea is in one situation, it usually doesn't work very well in others. If an ideal or philosophy makes perfect sense to you and seems perfectly logical, you have missed something.

Socialist Attitude on Slashdot? -- Duh Were Smart!

[SRA8]

OK, lets be honest with ourselves -- slashdot readers probably have some of the higest IQ on the internet. Much like the question of why so many college professors are liberal peacenicks (duh, because they are really smart!) -- I think our high IQs have realized that conservative military-industrial-church complexes are self-defeating in the long run

Re:Socialist Attitude on Slashdot? -- Duh Were Sma

[Anonymous Coward]

Ummm, but when's the last time socialism has worked? Never - the more socialist a country gets, the less freedom you see among the people living there. I would call that failure. If you can show me a free, economically successfull example of socialism, I might consider it a viable alternative to democratic capitalism.

Of course right now, the U.S. is stradling the fence between socialism and democracy, resulting in a semi-free country, where a huge amount of money flows throught the government unneedingly.

Artists should sue Sony, break ties

[Anonymous Coward]

I am curious, which artist will be first to break ties with Sony and sue for the label for the damage Sony caused for their reputation.

TOO LATE!!!

[alizard]

it. . . has. . . escaped!

google "boycott" at Sony.com

[Anonymous Coward]

All Results for "boycott" - Corporate information

Sony Wonder Technology Lab - Attend Fun Events - Movies ...Luther and Nora Krank (Tim Allen and Jamie Lee Curtis) decide to boycott Christmas and head to the Caribbean on a cruise. On Christmas Eve, their daughter Blair (Julie Gonzalo) calls and tells her parents that... SORRY, THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS SANTA CLAUS AND SONY

Re:I agree! Throw the Sony execs in Jail!

[hpulley]

One was available which could be downloaded itself, rather than downloading the downloader which leaves the holes open. The first day the story broke, the advice was to run the uninstaller. Now they say the uninstaller is worse than the problem... ug. Will someone please throw these guys in jail, or to the lions or something?

iTunes

[Tim12s]

If anything, this is more of a reason to use iTunes + iPod.

Get thee sony cd drm scum away from me. Great way to push people towards your competitor.

Re:iTunes

[daverabbitz]

Uhh, iTunes i DRM'd also. well at least it doesn't install spyware but it still doesn't let you use the music how you see fit.

Damages for Copyright Infringement...

[cfulmer]

Hmmm.... So, as previously noted, the software appears to contain copyrighted LAME code.

So, minimum statutory damages for innocent infringement of $200. Estimates are that there are over 500,000 machines infected. Multiply by two copies, one for the original CD and one for the as-installed copy. By my count, Sony is liable for over $200M in damages. Not a good day, indeed. And that doesn't even include the disks they didn't sell.

Who owns the LAME copyright? Would be poetic to sue Sony for massive copyright infringement.

(IANAL.)

Or just fix it yourself

[Anonymous Coward]

Seeing as how Sony has been so forthcoming and apologetic about this whole fiasco, I'm sure that an amicable call to customer service will be a great help.

Seriously, the DRM is so bad that Switchfoot, one of their own bands, posted instructions on a Sony music forum on how to use CDEX to circumvent it.
Somehow, that post disappeared.
Somehow, the Google cache of that post disappeared.
Somehow, a CNN article citing that post disappeared!
Strange things are afoot at the Circle K.

The only way to remedy this heavy handed behavior is criminal prosecution. Sony is getting sued for distributing this software and they can't even try to mitigate the damage to their image? A company that clueless won't respond to anything more subtle.

Apples and Oranges...and maybe Pears

[MacFury]

I've met religious fanatics who don't spend that much time reading their religious scripture. Literally, you claim to be spending more time with whatever literature supports your views than a fundie does with a bible.

You are comparing finding actual facts and logical arguments to reading a few whacky sentences and taking them at face value. The pursuit of knowledge takes far more time then the pursuit of ignorance.

Still, I agree...the posted should get a life. :-)

Terrorist Photos

[ONOIML8]

So I got to looking at those photos and that got me thinking. Yeah I know, I know. But it was too late.

My mind got to drifting and I figured that if I wanted to make an attack on US business interests, Sony might be a good contact to have. Notice how little was affected in Europe or Asia? Hmmmmm.

Re:Terrorist Photos

[Vo0k]

The distribution roughly corresponds to distribution of computers per km^2 minus piracy level average. Note France and England were full. And the border between Poland and Germany was pretty clearly drawn. Not that there's that much less computers in Poland, but because everyone downloads pirated music here and nobody bothers to buy Sony CDs, while in Germany the law is way more strict, and people more rich, able to afford expensive CDs easier.

yes, but it doesn't matter

[r00t]

The machine wouldn't be on the net. At the end of the work day, the hard drive gets pulled out of the machine and locked in a safe.

Basically, your typical TOP SECRET computer might as well not have a password. It only gets used by cleared personal in a faraday cage at a secure facility. All that TEMPEST stuff is silly too, for a faraday cage with sound insulation and no windows.

Voting with your dollars

[TFloore]

Yesterday I bought a camcorder from Canon even though both Canon and Sony were final runner ups, I put my 800$ on a Canon for one reason... Sony DRM is an insult to consumers

Good. You voted with your dollars. That's great.

Now, do the next step.

Write a letter (yes, on actual paper). Be polite and professional.

Mail it here:
Howard Stringer
Chairman & Chief Executive Officer
Sony Corporation of America
Sony Drive
Park Ridge, NJ 07656

Tell him about your purchase, and your reason for it. He won't read it, of course, but he has staff whose purpose is to handle mail like this.

Anyone you know that makes a similar buying decision, encourage them to do the same.

Simply not buying from them is good... but you won't change the company's behavior if you don't tell them *why* they are not getting your money.

If you (and 50,000 of your closest friends) send a letter to Sony saying "I bought your competitor's product because of your corporate practices" they will look very carefully at changing how they do business. When they realize that they lost money because of scummy decisions like this, they will change policy.

But they won't know if you don't tell them.

F**k customer loyalty

[classical piano]

They're sony, they don't need customer loyalty. F**k pants too.

Re:Not a big deal

[symbolic]

How do those who are active boycotters stick to it?

I have actively avoided the purchase of almost ALL media for a few years now. I have also avoided purchasing other items from companies whose policies I do not like. In response to your question, it's not a big deal. Sticking to it is easy. Just do it. Nobody will MAKE you buy a Sony CD, or any other Sony product. It's YOUR choice. Exercise it.

The uninstall form is MIA... did we slashdot it?

[Goldenhawk]

The uninstall request form is gone. There's now a message saying:

"UNINSTALL REQUESTS

November 15th, 2005 - We currently are working on a new tool to uninstall First4Internet XCP software. In the meantime, we have temporarily suspended distribution of the existing uninstall tool for this software. We encourage you to return to this site over the next few days. Thank you for your patience and understanding."

Hmmmm.... I wonder if they yanked it after it got slashdotted (and slashblogged?)...

Disregarding Marx, are we?

[Anonymous Coward]

i suspect stronlgy that dada21 and others like him actually live by trading their labour to people who are, in fact capitalists.

Labor is capital: in particular "fixed capital."

Kill the f***ing kids

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's pull a Herod Act and kill off EVERYONE aged 12 to 20. Without their consumer base, they'll be pretty much ruined. Can't get a statement much stronger than that.

Re:FBI? NSA? Homeland Security? BullSh***

[Kaenneth]

I worked in a county office as a sysadmin, and while I didn't have detailed schematics for stealth bombers, I handled payroll/personnel data for jail guards, judges, prosecutors... I brought in my own music CD player even though I could have polayed them my machines CD-Rom, because I believed in keeping personal things out of government equipment. Now, thinking of other departments... Bus Schedules, you could phone in an listen to recorded bus schedules, something that messes with audio could hose that. The county hospital, people have died from bugs in radiology software, as well as patient records. Court records, crime Victim/witness information. Computer controlled sewage equipment...

Re:Socialist Attitude on Slashdot? -- Duh Were Sma

[Lemmy Caution]

OK, lets be honest with ourselves -- slashdot readers probably have some of the higest IQ on the internet.

You've got to be kidding.

Re:I already hated MS, now I also hate sony... Gam

[Vo0k]

Come on, the new Nintendo controller is totally cool, and the games are pretty promising too!

Ain't. Gonna. Happen.

[Anonymous Coward]

Better start happening because if courts won't give equal justice to all, people WILL take it to their own hands eventually and that means blood not jail.

Got any back doors?

[cheekyboy]

Dude, any dial tone back doors to say.... shutdown system.

Or go to debug mode and allow dialout redirection to international numbers.

Or, #667 to drop queue

Sony BMG recalls copy-protected CDs

[Anonymous Coward]

"We deeply regret any inconvenience this may cause our customers. Details of this (recall) program will be announced shortly," Sony BMG said.

BS---Sony deeply regrets getting caught and people starting to boycott buying anything labeled Sony. I just bought a new TV last night and what brand did I not even look at? Sony.

And I will NOT buy any Sony BMG cd's again.
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me."

Naughty Sony!

[davro]

The name of the Sony Corporation is sullied. Look into my eye's, Not around my eye's, Straight into them. Your under! Repeat: I will never again buy any Sony product. Repeat: I will not recommend their products Repeat: I will not recommend sony period. Repeat: Sony do not exists anymore, apart from homeless people with aibo's.

Corporate Lawsuits - Legal Feeding Frenzy

[zentinal]

By now, we can assume that the rootkit has been installed, not only on home computers, but on corporate servers, laptops and desktop machines.

How much damage has been done at little companies liks, GM, or Boeing, or Citigroup?

What will happen when their lawers going after Sony?

Hypocritical or what?

[Anonymous Coward]

While they're on their high-horses about right to protect their content, they're openly advertising workaround for Apple's iTunes:

Sony BMG and EMI have begun shipping compact discs using technology that limits the number of copies you can make of any disc to three. And you can't port songs from affected CDs to Apple IPod players unless you request a workaround from Sony.

http://www.xcp-aurora.com/press_article.aspx?art=a ug_05_art2

3. How can I get tracks I rip from my CD into iTunes and/or onto my iPod? Apple's proprietary technology doesn't support secure music formats other than their own and therefore the music on this disc can't be directly imported into iTunes or iPods. Sony BMG wants music to be easily transferable to any device that supports secure music. Currently, music from our protected CDs may be transferred to hundreds of such devices, as both Microsoft and Sony have assisted to make the user experience on our discs as seamless as possible with their secure formats. Unfortunately, in order to directly and smoothly rip content into iTunes it requires the assistance of Apple. To date, Apple has not been willing to cooperate with our protection vendors to make ripping to iTunes and to the iPod a simple experience. If you believe that you should be able to easily move tracks from your protected CD to your iPod then we encourage you to use the following link to contact Apple directly and tell them so. http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html That said, while there is no direct support on the disc for iTunes or iPod, SONY BMG has worked out an indirect way for consumers to move content into these environments, despite the challenges noted above. If you'd like more information on how to move content to iTunes please [CLICK HERE].

http://cp.sonybmg.com/xcp/english/faq.html#ipod May not be legally wrong, but certainly morally questionnable. Pete

Mirror of the "pretty pictures"???

[c64cryptoboy]

Anyone have a mirror of the "pretty pictures"?
- http://www.doxpara.com.nyud.net:8090/planetsony_us a.JPG
- http://www.doxpara.com.nyud.net:8090/planetsony_as ia.JPG
- http://www.doxpara.com.nyud.net:8090/planetsony_eu rope.JPG

interesting site

[NPerez]

http://boycottsony.us/ The owner wanted to register boycottsony.com or boycottsony.net , but they were already taken. Guess who has it.. Domain Name: boycottsony.com Registrar Name: Markmonitor.com Registrar Whois: whois.markmonitor.com Registrar Homepage: http://www.markmonitor.com/ Administrative Contact: Sony Pictures Entertainment Inc. (NIC-14369782) SPDE Domain Names Inc. 10202 W. Washington Blvd. Culver City CA 90232 US hostmaster@sonypictures.com +1.3102448313 Fax- +1.3102448103

"How can you be in infosec and use a Mac?" WTF?

[Daedala]

I'm really not sure why you think your statement follows.

1. Being able to secure XP is not the same as being willing.
2. Working in infosec does not necessarily mean working with MS products.
3. Working with MS products is not the same as securing XP.
4. What one works with is not necessarily the same as what one uses personally.
5. What one works with is not necessarily the same as what one wants to use, personally.

Re:That's because one (or maybe more)of them is ly

[Anonymous Coward]

Agree, and most people that have had clearances would probably know better then to post about security procedures on a site such as slashdot.

SonySuit.com Tracks The Class Actions

[marklyon]

I've posted a simple page at http://sonysuit.com/ and plan to begin using it to track the class action (and individual) lawsuits that spring up as a result of this issue.

New exciting business opportunities

[Dove_from_above]

Having read the recent news on DRM, I wrote down these exciting new business opportunities on the train to work.

Forget music.

All over the world people are copying recipes.

Ok you might [possibly] know how to make a good pizza, but does the original inventor [chef / cook / whatever] ever get credits or royalties?

No!

Society even supports this activity and allows groups such as the Women's Institute (WI) to run cake stalls, selling potentially copyright infringing material. Who owns the recipe to dundee or banana cake?

In order to stop this outrage, I raise a call for arms for the introduction of PRM (physical rights management). Using nano-technology, PRM will introduce mechanisms to ensure that any ingredients purchased (i.e. a tin of tomatoes) are used only in a lawful, non copyright infringing way.

This future will transform your kitchen from a melting pot of illegality [note to advertising group: use images of cute kids making chocolate brownies in an unlawful way interlaced with shots of muggers, burglars and murderers] into a controlled safe environment where both you (as good parents) and your children can cook non copyright infringing food. [note to advertising group: use happy faces of a family unit interspersed with images of a caring yet cool corporation]

Furthermore, PRM, will help prevent any counterfeiting of popular goods (fairy cakes, shepherds pie) by organised crime or terror groups looking for fundraising.

Under PRM, you will no longer buy unlicensed ingredients but instead the right to use an ingredient or product for a legal safe purpose protected by the PRM nano-technology (trademarked as SAFE FOOD).

At the supermarket, SAFE FOOD will determine your purpose of use at the point of sale (i.e. you want to make pizza etc). SAFE FOOD patented technology will then check all the necessary copyright law, pay the relevant royalties necessary by automatically debiting your credit card and finally provide you with a personalised EULA, printed in a clearly unreadable micro-dot on the inside of the tin.

To avoid the consumer being put to any inconvenience, SAFE FOOD does not require any input from the consumer and the placing of the tin in a shopping bag will be legally binding as acceptance of the EULA.

How do we know the purpose of say a tin of tomatoes without input from the consumer?

Simple, using our advanced technology we have been able to create mathematically proven algorithims which use all the currently available information on a consumer to accurately predict the consumer choice. This is our patented technology known as CORRECT CHOICE.

Should you wish to change your mind after purchasing and decide not to make the CORRECT CHOICE recipe (such as making spaghetti bolognese, because let's face it you've eaten too much pizza) then you will be required to purchase another tin of tomatoes licensed for that purpose.

In order to protect your rights and safety - should your ingredient be used for any unlicensed purpose (i.e. not the CORRECT CHOICE recipe), then SAFE FOOD will turn your ingredient into an obnoxious foul smelling mess in order to stop any unlawful acts occurring or being consumed.

This will also prevent theft of your product by another person, as the EULA will specify the recipients of the ingredients eg. the named members of your household and any guest you may have specified at the point of sale.

Furthermore to avoid consumers becoming concerned or confused over how SAFE FOOD or CORRECT CHOICE works, we are introducing new legislation to make it illegal for anyone other than us to understand or question it.

Any possible minor but unlikely side effects?

* an unexpected guest arrives and you have no ingredients with appropriate licenses.

* the licensed owner of the product dies, lea