Yeah this is a single University's external affairs office's report; but google "Demand for CS students exceeds supply". It really is true!
Your point is valid considering other fields though, in engineering; for e.g. electrical/electronics/aeronautical.
Are there fewer and fewer students entering accredited universities in the US studying IT fields? YES. And you know what, the reason just might be because the big companies are outsourcing the jobs. There is a direct relation to the expected number of jobs available in 5 years to the number of students entering those fields of study. By saying that they will be outsourcing the positions, the companies create the very lack of qualified personnel that they cite they need to fill the positions in the first place.
Actually its the other way round. BECAUSE there aren't enough graduates people outsource. I am sure you haven't researched this, but I am pretty sure of this, and even in my university which has more than 10,000 students, companies have trouble matching up their demand!
This really would be surprising (and insulting) but this is the hard truth.
I don't know who modded this parent upto a 4 Interesting,but this is really stupid. Sorry!
"There's no jobs for them"
You mean there's no job for "scripters/programmers in Java/Perl/VB.NET (for fun)/gamers/hackers/*nix lovers etc" who don't have the fundamentals of computer SCIENCE right. Programming is NOT computer science. Bill Gates wants more computer SCIENCE graduates. Not programmers!
You think just because you can program you have an edge?! I can guarantee you IQ for a programmer isn't necessarily high; its like comparing plumbers and electrical engineers; Programmers PROGRAM; There are theoretical/analytical/creative avenues in computer SCIENCE that need more people to work on.
Hell, it would take anybody to take a "--- for dummies" to start off on Perl/Java. What's missing is people who know how a compiler works or the intricacies of algorithms; or the graph theory; or AI; or what not!
Computer SCIENCE is now mature enough to make distinctions between programmers and scientists just as engineers do (a la engineer and a mechanic).
I agree with all of the points except for the 7th one. US will not be a "developing" country and Indian will not be a developed country, so to speak - in the future;
Unless Indian politicians learn to LEARN; and educated people start themselves in the politics; Unless this happens, which is very very far ahead, thanks to idolism and what not, India will not be a developed country;
I can't see how China can become a developed country, with communism as its foothold; I am not sure this is an accurate statement, but aren't all communist states that suppress free thought doomed to death?
However all of your points are great, but still you should know that American undergraduate system is one of the best in the world (at least in the university I am studying). I am a transfer student, and I know for sure if my friends over in India had this same education, India would be a super power in another 3 - 6 months.
Problem is, not many in America are willing to take up the challenges (even simple ones like SAT/GRE/GMAT - sorry to say, I am sure many will reply to this saying they are difficult). People grunt to take up challenges in math/science. However this same problem has allowed other venues: creativity, art, and free thought. This is the strength and disadvantage of the American edu system.
You would be surprised to know that the computer science demand/supply (in America) is that there is 50 times the demand than the supply. I am not talking about the people who script/hack/program a game; I mean the supply in terms of real computer scientists.
So what makes you think you are qualified enough not to be working the dumb shit others are passing around? You think you have an edge over the Indians?
And don't talk about Migrant Mexian workers like that, it makes YOU uneducated. You are an immigrant too, even if you are white; you gathered British shit once upon a time (or your parents/grand parents did). You are not capable of doing a good job here, that's why there are people over in India capable of doing it better.
I presume you to be a hard-core gamer or a Perl scripter or a *nix hacker or some sort of non-computer science junkie without the bare essentials. If you indeed are not, I apologize.
American education system is the dumb shit here; (although the undergraduate system is extremely good - although the computer science department in every university starves to get more intakes/graduates from existing intakes. )
Indian school and college education makes a good graduate - and in numbers that you can't imagine. You probably can't concentrate for two hours straight or think deeply about a problem for a long stretch. That's why you are posting to/. (So am I).
So think about what you talk before you post.
People like you alway strengthens my views about Slashdot: bunch of sysadmins/gamers/*nix 'lovers'/Microsoft haters/simply-to-prove-they-are-geek, with no fundamentals in computer SCIENCE, let alone programming (which is not *nix hacking nor perl SCRIPTING).
And Slashdot serves uniquely to my distaste; feeding me with insensitive comments that make my day up.
I hate to reply to moronic posters, but in this case I had to.
Slashdot Mirror
Awesome post.
You are talking about EE people, talk about sincere science people.
Here is the definitive link: http://oea.cs.utexas.edu/pdfs/us-jobs-3.pdf
Yeah this is a single University's external affairs office's report; but google "Demand for CS students exceeds supply". It really is true! Your point is valid considering other fields though, in engineering; for e.g. electrical/electronics/aeronautical.
Actually its the other way round. BECAUSE there aren't enough graduates people outsource. I am sure you haven't researched this, but I am pretty sure of this, and even in my university which has more than 10,000 students, companies have trouble matching up their demand!
This really would be surprising (and insulting) but this is the hard truth.
I don't know who modded this parent upto a 4 Interesting,but this is really stupid. Sorry!
"There's no jobs for them"
You mean there's no job for "scripters/programmers in Java/Perl/VB.NET (for fun)/gamers/hackers/*nix lovers etc" who don't have the fundamentals of computer SCIENCE right. Programming is NOT computer science. Bill Gates wants more computer SCIENCE graduates. Not programmers!
You think just because you can program you have an edge?! I can guarantee you IQ for a programmer isn't necessarily high; its like comparing plumbers and electrical engineers; Programmers PROGRAM; There are theoretical/analytical/creative avenues in computer SCIENCE that need more people to work on.
Hell, it would take anybody to take a "--- for dummies" to start off on Perl/Java. What's missing is people who know how a compiler works or the intricacies of algorithms; or the graph theory; or AI; or what not!
Computer SCIENCE is now mature enough to make distinctions between programmers and scientists just as engineers do (a la engineer and a mechanic).
I agree with all of the points except for the 7th one. US will not be a "developing" country and Indian will not be a developed country, so to speak - in the future;
Unless Indian politicians learn to LEARN; and educated people start themselves in the politics; Unless this happens, which is very very far ahead, thanks to idolism and what not, India will not be a developed country;
I can't see how China can become a developed country, with communism as its foothold; I am not sure this is an accurate statement, but aren't all communist states that suppress free thought doomed to death?
However all of your points are great, but still you should know that American undergraduate system is one of the best in the world (at least in the university I am studying). I am a transfer student, and I know for sure if my friends over in India had this same education, India would be a super power in another 3 - 6 months.
Problem is, not many in America are willing to take up the challenges (even simple ones like SAT/GRE/GMAT - sorry to say, I am sure many will reply to this saying they are difficult). People grunt to take up challenges in math/science. However this same problem has allowed other venues: creativity, art, and free thought. This is the strength and disadvantage of the American edu system.
You would be surprised to know that the computer science demand/supply (in America) is that there is 50 times the demand than the supply. I am not talking about the people who script/hack/program a game; I mean the supply in terms of real computer scientists.
So what makes you think you are qualified enough not to be working the dumb shit others are passing around? You think you have an edge over the Indians? And don't talk about Migrant Mexian workers like that, it makes YOU uneducated. You are an immigrant too, even if you are white; you gathered British shit once upon a time (or your parents/grand parents did). You are not capable of doing a good job here, that's why there are people over in India capable of doing it better. I presume you to be a hard-core gamer or a Perl scripter or a *nix hacker or some sort of non-computer science junkie without the bare essentials. If you indeed are not, I apologize. American education system is the dumb shit here; (although the undergraduate system is extremely good - although the computer science department in every university starves to get more intakes/graduates from existing intakes. ) Indian school and college education makes a good graduate - and in numbers that you can't imagine. You probably can't concentrate for two hours straight or think deeply about a problem for a long stretch. That's why you are posting to /. (So am I).
So think about what you talk before you post.
People like you alway strengthens my views about Slashdot: bunch of sysadmins/gamers/*nix 'lovers'/Microsoft haters/simply-to-prove-they-are-geek, with no fundamentals in computer SCIENCE, let alone programming (which is not *nix hacking nor perl SCRIPTING).
And Slashdot serves uniquely to my distaste; feeding me with insensitive comments that make my day up.
I hate to reply to moronic posters, but in this case I had to.
That news article gets Slashdotted, why not click THAT ad over there that publicizes AIT (or whatever it is called) to drive them nuts? ... AGAIN!!
I am sure you would do that...
=CAOSS
First you invent a loophole,
then you hire people to overcome it.
That's basic software engineering.
..who was it?
Blame it on Microsoft.
"Hey Mr. Sam I don't have the data anymore, I got a blue screen, wanna see it?"
If they don't believe that, better hide under the table, because THEY ARENT THE FBI !!
Motto of the Anti-Piracy Post?
Need I mention?
All your base are belong to us
-----
I tried compiling, but it doesn't work... quick it is crashing...