That's right, you'll need to buy a new PC with a 1T hard drive, and 1G of RAM so you can actually boot the new Microsoft Windows OS.
I personally think that Microsoft can't fix all the security holes in it's OS's and apps so they are testing the market for what will allow them another 3-5 years of delays. The masters of "just wait til the next version" will keep those dumb corporate and government IT people strung along long enough for a rewrite of MS Office (more incompatibilities) and the stablizing of MS Windows (via componentization).
having money does not make one moral, just, kind, fair, likeable, intelligent, etc. In Bill Gates' case, there's not much of a reason to "look up to" the man. IMHO.
Thank god Tivo exists cause FF is such a wonderful thing when 90% of the news, even local news, has nothing to do with my life. It's not even entertaining. ex. What does the fact that a mother of 5 kills her children have to do with 99.9% of Americans out there? Nothing. If they talked about studies on post pardon depression then it might be more appropriate for mass market news.
Like I said, bleep bleep goes the Tivo fast forward button.
a) High School b) Junior High School c) Elementary School d) quit #a to become hacker e) quit #b to become dungeon master f) quit #c to become MS employee/FUD master
just kidding. I had a brain fart and my fingers expressed it....;)
Too bad they couldn't have tested them before glueing them together in the carrier.
Thanks for the explaination and I'll be sure to take one of my 2 180MHz PPro's apart when/if they fail. They've been running like clockwork for years in a SMP system running Linux ( so it's still OK to use ).
The PentiumPro had a double chip package? I know the Pentium II was a double chip package and was also that dumb SLOT format but the PPro? From what I remember, Intel said the PPro was too expensive to make with the cache onboard so they HAD to change from a socket to the slot that accomodated the CPU and cache on a PCB.
IMO, Intel came up with the SLOT format to put a major dent in the clone chipset manufacturing that was going on. When Intel released the SLOT CPU, they only licensed it out to very very few companies. Intel motherboards ruled the day for quite some time back then.
All just more smoke and mirrors and no real progress. IMHO.
The Itanicium having the double chip package is most likely because preformance would suck without a huge cache. They needed it if anyone was to even LOOK at the chip. A huge cache onboard would kill the yeild/wafer count and made the chip even MORE expensive to make. IMHO.
the ONLY reason the Pentium Pro didn't catch on was because Microsoft released a 16bit OS and told everyone it was a 32bit one ( Windows 95 ).
SCO Unix, OS/2, and to some degree Windows NT ran quite a bit faster on the 32bit optimized PPro when compared with the same clocked Pentium.
Because of Microsofts great PR, even Intel was caught off guard and scrambled out a hack called MMX to give the appearance of progress in the CPU market. While the MMX based Pentiums were getting press/air time, Intel was hacking at the Pentium Pro core to get it to run THE 16bit OS (Windows) faster. That was the Pentium II.
IBM did some speed tests of OS/2 on the PPro and in some cases they saw a 100% speed increase on the 32bit optimized PPro.
This reminds me of the 7degrees from Kevin Bacon reference. It seems that many failures in the computer industry are only about 3degrees from Microsoft. And never is the failure do to competition but more likely, marketing and market control. IMHO.
The PPro was a darn good CPU. It finally took 32bit-ness seriously though about 10 years after the 32bit i86386 was released. As much as I like the simplicity of RISC, Intel will never get the Titanicium off the ground and AMD/Hammer will force Intel to follow their lead with an extension to the i86 instruction set into 64bit land.
IMHO.
Great, ONE person sees what I'm getting at. Yeah, JeJones.
Those other YAHOO's must be young punks who have no recollection of the phrase, "DOS ain't done til Lotus don't run". Isn't that flying on a flag in Redmond somewhere(joke).;)
wow, I thought that Direct3D(tm) was a bunch of API's for programming on the Microsoft Windows platform. If it "looks" like Direct3D then it's just following Microsofts published API's.
I agree that in the short term this might look like a good thing but look at history. They push/change/break their own API's to keep the competition one step behind.
If you start "talking" the Microsoft Windows language (API's) on Linux then your just stepping in line and following the piper. And he's leading you over the cliff.
By the way, I NEVER said this was FROM MICROSOFT. They do control the API's this is being built to.
This is just how Microsoft can screw up Linux. Sure, it sounds like a good thing but MS controls the API's, the MS API's and following them will only mean eventual control. That goes for the.NET stuff that the Gnome people are doing. DUMB, VERY DUMB.
IMHO, the only way Microsoft could screw with Linux is to have developers develope WIN32 APIs and have them run on Linux and this is just helping them do this. Only if Microsoft loses control of the desktop and with it the dominant application API's can or should this kind of thing be looked at as an advantage.
Having "probed" the Handspring people over the last few weeks, I think the keyboard on the Treo is in the event they lose to Xerox. Handspring is PUSHING THE KEYBOARD over Graffiti in a major way. Even when someone says they prefer Graffiti, the Hanspring people push the keyboard version....
My beef with this all-in-one idea is that the phone technologies here in the US are still pretty bad. Most of the people I know get rid of their phones in less than 2 years. You'd be throwing away a $400 device in this case. I sure wish they could have put a springboard or CF slot in the back of the TREO design so different phone technologies could have been swapped in. I'd pay $50 for a phone w/service along with $300-$350 for the Treo(empty) PDA.
Bolting them together eliminates choice of service at a reasonable price.
A very nice design though, except for the fact it has no expansion/radio slot. IMHO
In 1991, OS/2 2.0 had pre-emptive multi-tasking AND multi-threading in the kernel. Windows NT 3.1 had it too but what a slow pig that was.
I don't think *nix's got multi-threading til the mid 90's (Solaris first?). But then again, creating process's on *nix's was faster than creating a thread on Windows. On OS/2 that was questionable ( IBM knows how to make a kernel ).
This is a very good move and putting it into the 2.5.x kernel so early will help test the heck out of it. Good move. IMHO
just sick of the crap streaming from Redmond. without their monopoly on the OS, they would be a much smaller application company. MUCH SMALLER. And by reading the dial on the FUD METER, it looks like Linux is THE target. Therefore Bill and Steve are FUD-WRESTLING again and the media is at ringside taking notes. A tinfoil hat is all I need to keep the FUD from getting on me. It's THAT weak these days.;/
I wonder if these stats would look the same if a count of the bugs in the fix packages were counted and not just the BugTrax ones..... hummmm.
>
> This is not an issue of who has more issues, but whose issues get reported and publicized more.
>
Well said. The best defense to this FUD I've seen so far. Be sure that there are 100's of Microsoft employees who's only job is to figure out holes in the Linux model such that it makes Windows look better. There was the re-surgence of communism and the GPL cracks the foundation of our economy to name 2 off the top of my head.
The Microsoft model is to hide the bugs because it makes the product "look" more flawed. Having flown the BSOD flag over Redmond for the last few years shows they NEED to hide the bugs because perception is that the product IS FLAWED. Now the flag is SECURITY and they need to hide the bugs again.... Linux and opensource on the other hand, project reliability and security through openness. So like always, Microsoft uses manipulated statistics to ATTEMPT to show Windows is better. Remember in 1995 when NT sould 100% explosive growth of NT?....
Your one-liner blows the thousands of dollars spent on that report right out of the water. IMHO.
Regarding Microsoft; they REALLY have their work cut out for them. They can't hide this with press releases for very long and failures won't be excused as easily. Then again the public has accepted a daily ritual with Ctl-Alt-Del for over a decade.....
I'm pretty sure they, Microsoft, lost the server battle but by buying into the home entertainment maket( xbox ) and controlling the content they'll have another shot back at the server market in 5 years. A BLACK-EYE between now and then will seal their fate. IMHO.
You forgot that wonderful Windows NT 3.1 it's the one that made me start using OS/2. Thank gawd Linux grew up as IBM is putting the nails in OS/2.
To bad only the BeOS came close to working as well as OS/2 but today, Linux is still better than Windows ANYTHING. That's not saying much but Linux does rock. IMHO.
Does anybody else laugh at every "flag" Microsoft thows up to show the press it's listening? Security is the latest flag but that's really funny since it'll require a rewrite if every application they sell since there is no difference between Windows the OS and Microsoft Applications.
Oh, where is Windows Millenium? And don't forget DOS 4.x, that was a "great" OS just as all the other Windows OS's.;/
Imaging where we would be now with regard to hydrogen fuel if the Hindenberg's skin wasn't made of an explosive?
Amazing how one event can change how we progress technically. Kinda like how the DOS deal between IBM and Microsoft has doomed most corporations to ballooning IT budgets because Gates was NOT a Kindall. ie. Gates wants control and all the $$ and Kindall wanted usablilty/great products.
IMHO.
Electric cars have been around for over 20 years and now that excellent hybrid gasoline/electric cars are hitting the market, the oil industry bought the rights to the NiMH battery technology and is using the courts to stop or slow down one of the big hybrid auto manufacturers.
Do you really think the oil industry would allow fuel cells to undermine their business? I think they will stall it until they figure out how to make oil burning fuel cells dominant.
I do hope you are correct but we'd be lucky if 5 years from now more then 1% of new homes are built with fuel cell heating/power systems. What ever happened to GE's fuelcell home power systems?????
I do understand that but didn't think people in this forum are just as dumb. Bragging about what a device CAN do and what it DOES FOR YOU are two different things. I don't think it's a good idea accepting this and joining in.
To your response I say that Palm and it's partners need to get purchasers to realize what THEIR PDAs can and will do for the consumer instead of following Microsofts way of selling features that aren't worth anything but WOW factor.
IMHO
Still surprised this forum isn't talking more about use....
So much of these threads are just plain dumb. You people are just talking about hardware and the OS and nothing about what the device is used for.
The PalmOS based devices are great PDAs and get you your data faster, easier, and in general, cheaper. Do I care if my PDA has 4,8, or 32 MB of RAM when I can put 10's of thousands of addresses and appointments in 2-4MBs? There are tons of other apps that help me keep my data/life organized too and they are cheap or free.
There's a place for full featured pocketable PC's but they currently don't do too well at playing music(batt life rots), there's alot of WOW factor with the movie playing and picture viewing but is that what the majority of the market for handheld computers needs? It's getting close to the time that an MP3 player is builtin( w/CF slot ) and soon simple wireless ( ala bluetooth ) but video and wordprocessors? Who would be dumb enough to write THAT much on a handheld? Get the text in there and let the desktop pretty it up.
This is another classic marketing story that unless Palm and it's partners get off the ass, they're going to get blown away by MS and the public is going to think they need to spend twice as much as they NEED to. Once again Microsoft gets richer at the expense of usability and the public pays for it. They are great at marketing and that means getting people to THINK they need their products.
I'd love to see someone here talk about what people DO with all these different devices instead of just talking about features.
if very large apps were to be used then a large CF or SD card could be used for that. My MP3's will be on SD or CF (CF more likely) so again memory is no big deal.
You are right about the audio port being on the wrong side though. I've not looked at the Sharp connector to see if audio is there because that would be great if it was.
I will be using my Zaurus in our Prius in the near future. I'll eventually have a CF slot on our home MP3 jukebox too.
At US$400 the Zaurus(dev) not cheap but with all the capabilities it has I'd rather use it in my car then buy another computer I can't use as my PDA also. Heck, my PDA is always with me anyways so why not use it to monitor/control my cars systems too?
Slashdot Mirror
> And that's just for Office
>
That's right, you'll need to buy a new PC with a 1T hard drive, and 1G of RAM so you can actually boot the new Microsoft Windows OS.
I personally think that Microsoft can't fix all the security holes in it's OS's and apps so they are testing the market for what will allow them another 3-5 years of delays. The masters of "just wait til the next version" will keep those dumb corporate and government IT people strung along long enough for a rewrite of MS Office (more incompatibilities) and the stablizing of MS Windows (via componentization).
LoB
having money does not make one moral, just, kind, fair, likeable, intelligent, etc. In Bill Gates' case, there's not much of a reason to "look up to" the man. IMHO.
please spare us the "but it can buy...." jokes.
LoB
yeah, right. that was a joke right?
Thank god Tivo exists cause FF is such a wonderful thing when 90% of the news, even local news, has nothing to do with my life. It's not even entertaining. ex. What does the fact that a mother of 5 kills her children have to do with 99.9% of Americans out there? Nothing. If they talked about studies on post pardon depression then it might be more appropriate for mass market news.
Like I said, bleep bleep goes the Tivo fast forward button.
LoB
are you in:
;)
a) High School
b) Junior High School
c) Elementary School
d) quit #a to become hacker
e) quit #b to become dungeon master
f) quit #c to become MS employee/FUD master
just kidding. I had a brain fart and my fingers expressed it....
Too bad they couldn't have tested them before glueing them together in the carrier.
Thanks for the explaination and I'll be sure to take one of my 2 180MHz PPro's apart when/if they fail. They've been running like clockwork for years in a SMP system running Linux ( so it's still OK to use ).
LoB
The PentiumPro had a double chip package? I know the Pentium II was a double chip package and was also that dumb SLOT format but the PPro? From what I remember, Intel said the PPro was too expensive to make with the cache onboard so they HAD to change from a socket to the slot that accomodated the CPU and cache on a PCB.
IMO, Intel came up with the SLOT format to put a major dent in the clone chipset manufacturing that was going on. When Intel released the SLOT CPU, they only licensed it out to very very few companies. Intel motherboards ruled the day for quite some time back then.
All just more smoke and mirrors and no real progress. IMHO.
The Itanicium having the double chip package is most likely because preformance would suck without a huge cache. They needed it if anyone was to even LOOK at the chip. A huge cache onboard would kill the yeild/wafer count and made the chip even MORE expensive to make. IMHO.
LoB
> Only time will tell. Remember the Pentium Pros
the ONLY reason the Pentium Pro didn't catch on was because Microsoft released a 16bit OS and told everyone it was a 32bit one ( Windows 95 ).
SCO Unix, OS/2, and to some degree Windows NT ran quite a bit faster on the 32bit optimized PPro when compared with the same clocked Pentium.
Because of Microsofts great PR, even Intel was caught off guard and scrambled out a hack called MMX to give the appearance of progress in the CPU market. While the MMX based Pentiums were getting press/air time, Intel was hacking at the Pentium Pro core to get it to run THE 16bit OS (Windows) faster. That was the Pentium II.
IBM did some speed tests of OS/2 on the PPro and in some cases they saw a 100% speed increase on the 32bit optimized PPro.
This reminds me of the 7degrees from Kevin Bacon reference. It seems that many failures in the computer industry are only about 3degrees from Microsoft. And never is the failure do to competition but more likely, marketing and market control. IMHO.
The PPro was a darn good CPU. It finally took 32bit-ness seriously though about 10 years after the 32bit i86386 was released. As much as I like the simplicity of RISC, Intel will never get the Titanicium off the ground and AMD/Hammer will force Intel to follow their lead with an extension to the i86 instruction set into 64bit land.
IMHO.
LoB
Great, ONE person sees what I'm getting at. Yeah, JeJones.
;)
Those other YAHOO's must be young punks who have no recollection of the phrase, "DOS ain't done til Lotus don't run". Isn't that flying on a flag in Redmond somewhere(joke).
LoB
wow, I thought that Direct3D(tm) was a bunch of API's for programming on the Microsoft Windows platform. If it "looks" like Direct3D then it's just following Microsofts published API's.
I agree that in the short term this might look like a good thing but look at history. They push/change/break their own API's to keep the competition one step behind.
If you start "talking" the Microsoft Windows language (API's) on Linux then your just stepping in line and following the piper. And he's leading you over the cliff.
By the way, I NEVER said this was FROM MICROSOFT. They do control the API's this is being built to.
Do some research and see what Microsoft does.
LoB
This is just how Microsoft can screw up Linux. Sure, it sounds like a good thing but MS controls the API's, the MS API's and following them will only mean eventual control. That goes for the .NET stuff that the Gnome people are doing. DUMB, VERY DUMB.
IMHO, the only way Microsoft could screw with Linux is to have developers develope WIN32 APIs and have them run on Linux and this is just helping them do this. Only if Microsoft loses control of the desktop and with it the dominant application API's can or should this kind of thing be looked at as an advantage.
YOU WILL BE ASSIMULATED. really.
LoB
Having "probed" the Handspring people over the last few weeks, I think the keyboard on the Treo is in the event they lose to Xerox. Handspring is PUSHING THE KEYBOARD over Graffiti in a major way. Even when someone says they prefer Graffiti, the Hanspring people push the keyboard version....
Something is up. IMHO.
LoB
Today, getting color and good battery life isn't really possible. Especially with the screen size the Treo has.
Until Organic LED displays make it, you get color and no real battery life unless you bolt a large battery on (ala iPaq).
So you'll have to decide if you want to spend your money to show how cool you are or spend your money to get a useful/convenient product.
LoB
My beef with this all-in-one idea is that the phone technologies here in the US are still pretty bad. Most of the people I know get rid of their phones in less than 2 years. You'd be throwing away a $400 device in this case. I sure wish they could have put a springboard or CF slot in the back of the TREO design so different phone technologies could have been swapped in. I'd pay $50 for a phone w/service along with $300-$350 for the Treo(empty) PDA.
Bolting them together eliminates choice of service at a reasonable price.
A very nice design though, except for the fact it has no expansion/radio slot. IMHO
LoB
In 1991, OS/2 2.0 had pre-emptive multi-tasking AND multi-threading in the kernel. Windows NT 3.1 had it too but what a slow pig that was.
I don't think *nix's got multi-threading til the mid 90's (Solaris first?). But then again, creating process's on *nix's was faster than creating a thread on Windows. On OS/2 that was questionable ( IBM knows how to make a kernel ).
This is a very good move and putting it into the 2.5.x kernel so early will help test the heck out of it. Good move. IMHO
LoB
just sick of the crap streaming from Redmond. without their monopoly on the OS, they would be a much smaller application company. MUCH SMALLER. And by reading the dial on the FUD METER, it looks like Linux is THE target. Therefore Bill and Steve are FUD-WRESTLING again and the media is at ringside taking notes. A tinfoil hat is all I need to keep the FUD from getting on me. It's THAT weak these days. ;/
LoB
I wonder if these stats would look the same if a count of the bugs in the fix packages were counted and not just the BugTrax ones..... hummmm.
>
> This is not an issue of who has more issues, but whose issues get reported and publicized more.
>
Well said. The best defense to this FUD I've seen so far. Be sure that there are 100's of Microsoft employees who's only job is to figure out holes in the Linux model such that it makes Windows look better. There was the re-surgence of communism and the GPL cracks the foundation of our economy to name 2 off the top of my head.
The Microsoft model is to hide the bugs because it makes the product "look" more flawed. Having flown the BSOD flag over Redmond for the last few years shows they NEED to hide the bugs because perception is that the product IS FLAWED. Now the flag is SECURITY and they need to hide the bugs again.... Linux and opensource on the other hand, project reliability and security through openness. So like always, Microsoft uses manipulated statistics to ATTEMPT to show Windows is better. Remember in 1995 when NT sould 100% explosive growth of NT?....
Your one-liner blows the thousands of dollars spent on that report right out of the water. IMHO.
LoB
you want 802.11 in a reliable device than get the Handera 330 + 802.11 CF card.
nothing new here if you'd just look around.
LoB
True or not, it's a good story.
Regarding Microsoft; they REALLY have their work cut out for them. They can't hide this with press releases for very long and failures won't be excused as easily. Then again the public has accepted a daily ritual with Ctl-Alt-Del for over a decade.....
I'm pretty sure they, Microsoft, lost the server battle but by buying into the home entertainment maket( xbox ) and controlling the content they'll have another shot back at the server market in 5 years. A BLACK-EYE between now and then will seal their fate. IMHO.
LoB
You forgot that wonderful Windows NT 3.1 it's the one that made me start using OS/2. Thank gawd Linux grew up as IBM is putting the nails in OS/2.
;/
To bad only the BeOS came close to working as well as OS/2 but today, Linux is still better than Windows ANYTHING. That's not saying much but Linux does rock. IMHO.
Does anybody else laugh at every "flag" Microsoft thows up to show the press it's listening? Security is the latest flag but that's really funny since it'll require a rewrite if every application they sell since there is no difference between Windows the OS and Microsoft Applications.
Oh, where is Windows Millenium? And don't forget DOS 4.x, that was a "great" OS just as all the other Windows OS's.
LoB
Imaging where we would be now with regard to hydrogen fuel if the Hindenberg's skin wasn't made of an explosive?
Amazing how one event can change how we progress technically. Kinda like how the DOS deal between IBM and Microsoft has doomed most corporations to ballooning IT budgets because Gates was NOT a Kindall. ie. Gates wants control and all the $$ and Kindall wanted usablilty/great products.
IMHO.
LoB
Electric cars have been around for over 20 years and now that excellent hybrid gasoline/electric cars are hitting the market, the oil industry bought the rights to the NiMH battery technology and is using the courts to stop or slow down one of the big hybrid auto manufacturers.
Do you really think the oil industry would allow fuel cells to undermine their business? I think they will stall it until they figure out how to make oil burning fuel cells dominant.
I do hope you are correct but we'd be lucky if 5 years from now more then 1% of new homes are built with fuel cell heating/power systems. What ever happened to GE's fuelcell home power systems?????
good job. we have ONE.....is it possible there's TWO in all these comments?
Thanks and glad to hear someone here is not falling for the "my toy is bigger than your toy" game.
LoB
I do understand that but didn't think people in this forum are just as dumb. Bragging about what a device CAN do and what it DOES FOR YOU are two different things. I don't think it's a good idea accepting this and joining in.
To your response I say that Palm and it's partners need to get purchasers to realize what THEIR PDAs can and will do for the consumer instead of following Microsofts way of selling features that aren't worth anything but WOW factor.
IMHO
Still surprised this forum isn't talking more about use....
LoB
So much of these threads are just plain dumb. You people are just talking about hardware and the OS and nothing about what the device is used for.
The PalmOS based devices are great PDAs and get you your data faster, easier, and in general, cheaper. Do I care if my PDA has 4,8, or 32 MB of RAM when I can put 10's of thousands of addresses and appointments in 2-4MBs? There are tons of other apps that help me keep my data/life organized too and they are cheap or free.
There's a place for full featured pocketable PC's but they currently don't do too well at playing music(batt life rots), there's alot of WOW factor with the movie playing and picture viewing but is that what the majority of the market for handheld computers needs? It's getting close to the time that an MP3 player is builtin( w/CF slot ) and soon simple wireless ( ala bluetooth ) but video and wordprocessors? Who would be dumb enough to write THAT much on a handheld? Get the text in there and let the desktop pretty it up.
This is another classic marketing story that unless Palm and it's partners get off the ass, they're going to get blown away by MS and the public is going to think they need to spend twice as much as they NEED to. Once again Microsoft gets richer at the expense of usability and the public pays for it. They are great at marketing and that means getting people to THINK they need their products.
I'd love to see someone here talk about what people DO with all these different devices instead of just talking about features.
LoB
if very large apps were to be used then a large CF or SD card could be used for that. My MP3's will be on SD or CF (CF more likely) so again memory is no big deal.
You are right about the audio port being on the wrong side though. I've not looked at the Sharp connector to see if audio is there because that would be great if it was.
I will be using my Zaurus in our Prius in the near future. I'll eventually have a CF slot on our home MP3 jukebox too.
At US$400 the Zaurus(dev) not cheap but with all the capabilities it has I'd rather use it in my car then buy another computer I can't use as my PDA also. Heck, my PDA is always with me anyways so why not use it to monitor/control my cars systems too?
LoB