Put a cradle and power supply in the aux slot of your car and then put your music(mp3's) on a CF card. There you have it. You could use the rs232 port for gps features too. If you want more disk space then use the IBM microdrive (1GB).
The iPaq would work too but the Zaurus has both CF and SD/MMC slots along with the IR and RS232 ports and it ships with Linux already installed.
Thanks for bring this topic up because you made me realize I already had the solution to getting MP3's into my Toyota Prius. This will be very cool and when I get the VGA CF card I can drive the touch screen built into the Prius too.
Even though they say they use paper and pencil to run their company, they know what is going on. They know the numbers. Why do you think they are willing to spend $500,000 on marketing the X-box? Willing to sell the product at a large loss? WebTV was their first failure to get a PC into the home entertainment cabinet so now they are buying their way there.
The Y2K scare was great for Microsoft, Intel, and the PC industry in general because most corporations upgraded every pc in the preceeding few years. Those PCs had 500MHz, or up, CPUs and won't need to be replaced for another few years.
The consumer market is saturated with PC's. But a PC as a game console allows MS to sell at a loss and become the owner of the home entertainment center. So they think..
But you are right, the desktop is going nowhere fast and look, Linux is getting squeezed into all kinds of other devices. It's getting there with reliability, it's getting there quickly, and best of all for the vendors, it's getting there cheaply. No Microsoft tax for crap.
Wow, I absolutely love the trackpoint. I won't buy another laptop without it and I'm looking for a desktop keyboard with one too. You see, I'm a 10 finger typist and moving my hands off the home-row is a waste. Gotta keep the LOCs up.;)
I would guess that no more then 30% of professional computer users know how to type and that is why they have no problem grabbing a mouse to change a font, switch windows, use a menu, etc.
As a software developer, I'd like to see how many programmers are 10 finger typists. From my 15 years experience, I'd venture to say it's less then 50%. Drives me nuts to help someone out with a coding issue and have to wait "forever" for them to find the keys to peck out the line of code.
> + It needed 16MB of memory. Windows 3 could get away with 4MB........
Sorry but I ran OS/2 2.1 on 8MB of RAM running Windows 3.1 apps and the netware client at a very reasonable speed. I went to 10MB for those users who wanted to add TCP/IP and IBM's X Server.
You seem to think you know the story but remember the thread title. I doubt that even if someone paid the support costs for the first 2 call and had an OS 10x bettery then Windows that OEMs would even consider it. They would have to totally give up on shipping Windows and every application vendor that started developing for it would have their existing apps break with the next security patch for LookOut or InternetExplorer.
It just doesn't matter. Support cost or no support costs.
I see, it seems that it's cheaper to design new hardware so that they can put buttons on the keyboards so the OEM can get around Microsofts restriction of enhancing the UI. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look at a Compaq PC. You'll see there are a number of button which launch application Compaq pre-packaged on the system. Microsfot won't let any OEM customize the product to fit their customers needs.
If OEM's follow your rule then there is NO INNOVATION. None. Because it costs too much. We'd be using stone and chisel if we follow your rule.
The reason Linux or any OS can't get onto the desktops is because Microsoft can prevent innovation there.
you can't disrupt you assembly line. Microsoft won't let you. Even if you can make more then $40 on each machine by eventually selling Linux on it. You can't.
Would it disrupt your assembly line to provide a dual boot to Linux OR Windows on your machines? Just a small upfront cost to get the diskimage verified and then there is nothing extra except the customers have a choice. Oh, wait. You can't do that.
Saving $40+ on the Microsoft tax doesn't make economical sense?
Come on now, how is anybody supposed to get Linux out on the desktop if nobody worth a hoot can pre-install it? Not even in a dual boot configuration. I've got two friends who went out and bought $1500 PC's to do email and web surfing. Only some of the fringe players like Ellisons company,etc. do Linux such that consumers could use and how do they compete in a Windows-only press world?
Hell, OS/2 had/has a much higher usability rating, IMHO, yet only in one country in the world could IBM get pre-installs, Germany. I'd heard that OS/2 had 25% of the desktops in one year. BeOS was available for free to anybody who wanted to pre-install. They couldn't. Can you say monopoly?
BAD Monopoly?
Linux will remain out of the desktop space as long as Microsoft can hang anybody who lets Linux get close to a pre-installed Windows box. PERIOD. No operating system in existance today or tomorrow will break this strangle hold cause users take what is pre-installed.
that's not going to last long. Microsoft will start laying off all those Mac programmers who are NOT keeping Windows in the "right" light. Word for OS/2 kicked ars and so did most of the applications which were ported correctly to OS/2 ( read threaded ). Microsoft killed those projects every which way they could because they made Windows look bad. Which it was/is.
I've heard from another that MS Office on OS X was really nice but this will be the last time. Bookmark this and come back in 1.5 years. You'll see.
The UI of OS/2 v1.x and v2.x have very little in common. The v1.x UI was more like Windows 3.x, a simple launcher. Now the OS/2 v2.x UI was/is based on CORBA and was/is an object-oriented UI. Windows 9x and whatever are getting closer to the OS/2 2.x,3.x, 4.x UI but are not there yet IMHO. When 256MB of RAM is standard they might be able to get COM to run like SOM did/does in 32MB.
IBM showed how the UI was/is supposed to be done but users knew the Windows Program Manager and the press flogged OS/2 at Microsofts request. Monopolies have THAT kind of power. Sure IBM could have done things differently but nothing would have prevented Microsoft from strong arming the OEM, and sales channels. And they still do it today.
LoB
Yeah, that new UI is almost as good as the 1991 WorkplaceShell but needs 10x the hardware to get there.
How come the millions spent on research which begat the Windows 95 UI needed to be done again? It's because it was a bunch of crap. Microsofts UI is designed to keep the competition, apps, behind Microsoft. Remember, DOS ain't done til Lotus don't run. Sorry Charlie, this tuna is rotten.
OS/2 was too hard for people to switch to also but here we are 10 years later with something getting very close to what OS/2 had. Did I say 10 years ago? Wow, how freaking innovative Microsoft is. And darn, you just have to love how the press kisses they rosie butt too. Ah, what $$$$ can buy?
The press, a president, a judge here and there......
Now let's see, Microsoft is not growing on the desktop because they own 90% of that market so they are going after the server market which, at the mid to high end is running UNIX. Now Linux is getting in there and taking those BIG deals that Microsoft was gunning for and it's no big deal to Microsoft.
What bull. Microsoft have anything to do with this article? Sure sounds like spin to me.
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't make fun of Microsoft since it's been only something like 20 years that they've been making operating systems. Who am I to poke fun of their history of heavy support costs? After all, they shipped a new OS called Windows 2000 and another soon to be called Windows XP. Surely these will are the solution of solutions and erase decades of memories.
NOT. Glad to hear you can keep your systems running and I surely don't think all Windows admins are stupid. I guess public forums must be written such that it applies to all who read. Dang, that's going to be hard to do. Seriously.
And boy, you folk are a sensitive bunch. It's usually been the other way around. What gives?
I will counter your trollosity by pointing out the wonderful feature of X windows where I can throw remote windows
around with a simple command line argument. Its neat having 30 some-odd machines put their load monitors up on
one desktop.
True. But can't you do that with an X Server on Windows instead? That way, you can run thousands more applications
than you can with Linux alone.
Ahh, now we see what flutters in this guys head. Doh. Grasshopper, an X-Server is meerly a display server and only shows that which is generated elsewhere. Surely one could have an X-Server running on a MCWindows machine and have all those powerful Linux machines ( or Solaris, etc ) sending displays to it. But every MCWindows crash would require you to resend all those displays again.
You see, Grasshopper, how the power of the many can be maintained and controlled by the few in the *nix world. The power of the many in the MCWindows world requires many to maintain and control.;/
good thing they don't take your way of thinking and apply it to everything. Heck, they'd be handing over the keys to the tanks expecting them to know how to drive it.
There is a little trick called training that is used to bring humans and animals to a level of understanding or habit so they can handle certain tasks on their own.
Remember, T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G
Heck, most of the people I know who use computers don't really know how to. A friend who just last year was afraid to connect a printer to the computer is now the expert in her group because she put a simple spreadsheet together.
I guess you could see watching movies on it if you've not seen them already and somehow automated the recording and downloading. Like having Tivo record them at night and put them on the microDrive. You grab the iPaq and drive, then head for the bus.
At only $100 difference, you made the right choice. Personally, the $250 models fit my bill. Throw in the $40 Charge-N-Run charger and you've go a Palm V for cheap (minus the shine).
I do see some uses for the iPaq but as a daily PDA an overkill IMO. I have used a Go-Type keyboard and my Palm IIIx to replace my laptop on business trips I need notetaking and email. Not too easy using the PDA for a remote XServer though I do use telnet to manage my headless firewall.
I'll still say that the $200 PalmOS based PDA's are the best deal for most users. Again, throw Charge-N-Run in for $40 and you don't have to deal with batteries anymore. The Palm IIIxe is the best low end with the m125 the next best. IMHO
I'm a gadget guy but I just don't see what the extra $300 gets me that's SOOOO great that I can't do without it. Sounds like it's for you though.
I was thinking that you were going to say something about WHAT YOU DO with your iPaq but all you said was it does the WOW things. Movies, games, MP3, etc are gimics and you can only get so much out of just showing it off. Eventually you want to use it. That is still alot of cash and weight for all those gimics. IMHO.
There are some cases where the iPaq fits but as a PDA, PalmOS based devices are the better deal. Mine fits in almost all my pockets and goes everywhere I go. Handera has the ultimate PDA since it does CF and SD while being the size and weight of a Palm IIIxe and only $300.
Gimics come and go but when work has to be done, get the right tool for the job or your just wasting your money. IMHO
No I'm not sure how many IIS servers are running
their databases on the same machine or how accessable a database would be onced IIS was hacked and admin priv's were gained, but they, the press, never mention how vulnerable the customers data is on a Microsoft system. My CC has already been stolen and I'm darn sure it was because one site used IIS. Actually both mine and my wifes CC numbers were stolen and used for similar purposes.
Other similarities pointed to a ASP based server we used for a service we bought online.
The press is still leaving Microsoft alone as far as I'm concerned. They need to be called for what they are.
Bad for ebusiness, bad for corporate profits, and not to be trusted with customer data.
Gawd, why don't corporates buy their computer systems to last more than 3 years? Suns last over 10 years in a
company, Macs over 5 years. Is it just because the bog standard PC is so crapply built that it dies after 3 years?
It's the crappy OS. Windows 95 was slightly better then Windows 3.1 compared to OS/2 at the time. Windows 98 and ME were again, just slightly better then the previous and they crashed like crasy while falling apart annually ( requires reinstall ). The Windows NT thread was somewhat better but each new version required new hardware because of the bloat.
That, IMHO, is why the PC has only a 3 year lifespan. Run some other operating system and that same PC will last you 5+ years.
If business's think that faster machines will make for faster work then they are way off. IMO. From what I've seen, most workers have very little computer skills and just get by. They will do things that don't make any sense to someone who knows the apps inside and out. But that is how they figured out how to do the task and they keep doing it. Business's would save millions by just training the employees. Training tied directly to the tasks as we know most people don't remember 25% of what they teach in those classes.
I'd venture to guess that they have bought the guts of the Palm IIIxe's and put their own plastics around it. Doesn't it say it's Palm IIIxe compatible? They should have said "hardware compatible" so people here wouldn't freik out.
Looks like there are a few sane ones hanging here.
;/
Just wait and see how the government overreacts. Bush is already using this to increase his defense budget and now the FAA will enact some silly security proceedures. Not that all are silly, just that what was already in place seemed to have worked, it's just that it never dawned on them that a plane would be used as a weapon.
I remember that one guy hijacked a plane with a vile of water. He said it was nitro glycerine. The only way to prevent this is to secure the controls of the airplanes. That is it. If hijackers knew that the passengers would NOT let them take control, could this even happened?
Doubtful. Too bad the proceedures that will be put in place will do more damage to the economy then as already been done by adding hours and days onto mail and passenger deliveries.
Slashdot Mirror
http://developer.sharpsec.com/
Put a cradle and power supply in the aux slot of your car and then put your music(mp3's) on a CF card. There you have it. You could use the rs232 port for gps features too. If you want more disk space then use the IBM microdrive (1GB).
The iPaq would work too but the Zaurus has both CF and SD/MMC slots along with the IR and RS232 ports and it ships with Linux already installed.
Thanks for bring this topic up because you made me realize I already had the solution to getting MP3's into my Toyota Prius. This will be very cool and when I get the VGA CF card I can drive the touch screen built into the Prius too.
LoB.
Even though they say they use paper and pencil to run their company, they know what is going on. They know the numbers. Why do you think they are willing to spend $500,000 on marketing the X-box? Willing to sell the product at a large loss? WebTV was their first failure to get a PC into the home entertainment cabinet so now they are buying their way there.
The Y2K scare was great for Microsoft, Intel, and the PC industry in general because most corporations upgraded every pc in the preceeding few years. Those PCs had 500MHz, or up, CPUs and won't need to be replaced for another few years.
The consumer market is saturated with PC's. But a PC as a game console allows MS to sell at a loss and become the owner of the home entertainment center. So they think..
But you are right, the desktop is going nowhere fast and look, Linux is getting squeezed into all kinds of other devices. It's getting there with reliability, it's getting there quickly, and best of all for the vendors, it's getting there cheaply. No Microsoft tax for crap.
LoB
Wow, I absolutely love the trackpoint. I won't buy another laptop without it and I'm looking for a desktop keyboard with one too. You see, I'm a 10 finger typist and moving my hands off the home-row is a waste. Gotta keep the LOCs up. ;)
I would guess that no more then 30% of professional computer users know how to type and that is why they have no problem grabbing a mouse to change a font, switch windows, use a menu, etc.
As a software developer, I'd like to see how many programmers are 10 finger typists. From my 15 years experience, I'd venture to say it's less then 50%. Drives me nuts to help someone out with a coding issue and have to wait "forever" for them to find the keys to peck out the line of code.
LoB
> + It needed 16MB of memory. Windows 3 could get away with 4MB. .......
Sorry but I ran OS/2 2.1 on 8MB of RAM running Windows 3.1 apps and the netware client at a very reasonable speed. I went to 10MB for those users who wanted to add TCP/IP and IBM's X Server.
You seem to think you know the story but remember the thread title. I doubt that even if someone paid the support costs for the first 2 call and had an OS 10x bettery then Windows that OEMs would even consider it. They would have to totally give up on shipping Windows and every application vendor that started developing for it would have their existing apps break with the next security patch for LookOut or InternetExplorer.
It just doesn't matter. Support cost or no support costs.
LoB
I see, it seems that it's cheaper to design new hardware so that they can put buttons on the keyboards so the OEM can get around Microsofts restriction of enhancing the UI. If you don't know what I'm talking about, look at a Compaq PC. You'll see there are a number of button which launch application Compaq pre-packaged on the system. Microsfot won't let any OEM customize the product to fit their customers needs.
If OEM's follow your rule then there is NO INNOVATION. None. Because it costs too much. We'd be using stone and chisel if we follow your rule.
The reason Linux or any OS can't get onto the desktops is because Microsoft can prevent innovation there.
LoB
you can't disrupt you assembly line. Microsoft won't let you. Even if you can make more then $40 on each machine by eventually selling Linux on it. You can't.
Would it disrupt your assembly line to provide a dual boot to Linux OR Windows on your machines? Just a small upfront cost to get the diskimage verified and then there is nothing extra except the customers have a choice. Oh, wait. You can't do that.
Saving $40+ on the Microsoft tax doesn't make economical sense?
LoB
Come on now, how is anybody supposed to get Linux out on the desktop if nobody worth a hoot can pre-install it? Not even in a dual boot configuration. I've got two friends who went out and bought $1500 PC's to do email and web surfing. Only some of the fringe players like Ellisons company,etc. do Linux such that consumers could use and how do they compete in a Windows-only press world?
Hell, OS/2 had/has a much higher usability rating, IMHO, yet only in one country in the world could IBM get pre-installs, Germany. I'd heard that OS/2 had 25% of the desktops in one year. BeOS was available for free to anybody who wanted to pre-install. They couldn't. Can you say monopoly?
BAD Monopoly?
Linux will remain out of the desktop space as long as Microsoft can hang anybody who lets Linux get close to a pre-installed Windows box. PERIOD. No operating system in existance today or tomorrow will break this strangle hold cause users take what is pre-installed.
IMHO
that's not going to last long. Microsoft will start laying off all those Mac programmers who are NOT keeping Windows in the "right" light. Word for OS/2 kicked ars and so did most of the applications which were ported correctly to OS/2 ( read threaded ). Microsoft killed those projects every which way they could because they made Windows look bad. Which it was/is.
I've heard from another that MS Office on OS X was really nice but this will be the last time. Bookmark this and come back in 1.5 years. You'll see.
LoB
yeah, let's give Sun a chance since we already know how bad Microsoft is. I'm up for a change of pace, you?
Darn straight and we should all email/fax letters to our state A.G., State Resprentatives, and Senators.
Get email to the DOJ too:
mailto: Microsoft.atr@usdoj.gov
Californians:
mailto: piu@doj.ca.gov
Microsoft doesn't allow consumers to vote with their wallets so we need to get the word out using other means. Pro/Con, get the word out.
LoB
The UI of OS/2 v1.x and v2.x have very little in common. The v1.x UI was more like Windows 3.x, a simple launcher. Now the OS/2 v2.x UI was/is based on CORBA and was/is an object-oriented UI. Windows 9x and whatever are getting closer to the OS/2 2.x,3.x, 4.x UI but are not there yet IMHO. When 256MB of RAM is standard they might be able to get COM to run like SOM did/does in 32MB.
IBM showed how the UI was/is supposed to be done but users knew the Windows Program Manager and the press flogged OS/2 at Microsofts request. Monopolies have THAT kind of power. Sure IBM could have done things differently but nothing would have prevented Microsoft from strong arming the OEM, and sales channels. And they still do it today.
LoB
Yeah, that new UI is almost as good as the 1991 WorkplaceShell but needs 10x the hardware to get there.
How come the millions spent on research which begat the Windows 95 UI needed to be done again? It's because it was a bunch of crap. Microsofts UI is designed to keep the competition, apps, behind Microsoft. Remember, DOS ain't done til Lotus don't run. Sorry Charlie, this tuna is rotten.
OS/2 was too hard for people to switch to also but here we are 10 years later with something getting very close to what OS/2 had. Did I say 10 years ago? Wow, how freaking innovative Microsoft is. And darn, you just have to love how the press kisses they rosie butt too. Ah, what $$$$ can buy?
The press, a president, a judge here and there......
Open your eyes.
LoB
Just redirect 25% of that fund set asside for virus repairs/admin and use it for training.
Solves that problem.
LoB
Now let's see, Microsoft is not growing on the desktop because they own 90% of that market so they are going after the server market which, at the mid to high end is running UNIX. Now Linux is getting in there and taking those BIG deals that Microsoft was gunning for and it's no big deal to Microsoft.
What bull. Microsoft have anything to do with this article? Sure sounds like spin to me.
LoB
Yeah, I guess I shouldn't make fun of Microsoft since it's been only something like 20 years that they've been making operating systems. Who am I to poke fun of their history of heavy support costs? After all, they shipped a new OS called Windows 2000 and another soon to be called Windows XP. Surely these will are the solution of solutions and erase decades of memories.
NOT. Glad to hear you can keep your systems running and I surely don't think all Windows admins are stupid. I guess public forums must be written such that it applies to all who read. Dang, that's going to be hard to do. Seriously.
And boy, you folk are a sensitive bunch. It's usually been the other way around. What gives?
LoB
ah, one mans experience makes up for a decade of expectations. As Bob would say, "I don't think so." Reboot.
LoB
True. But can't you do that with an X Server on Windows instead? That way, you can run thousands more applications than you can with Linux alone.
Ahh, now we see what flutters in this guys head. Doh. Grasshopper, an X-Server is meerly a display server and only shows that which is generated elsewhere. Surely one could have an X-Server running on a MCWindows machine and have all those powerful Linux machines ( or Solaris, etc ) sending displays to it. But every MCWindows crash would require you to resend all those displays again. ;/
You see, Grasshopper, how the power of the many can be maintained and controlled by the few in the *nix world. The power of the many in the MCWindows world requires many to maintain and control.
LoB
good thing they don't take your way of thinking and apply it to everything. Heck, they'd be handing over the keys to the tanks expecting them to know how to drive it.
There is a little trick called training that is used to bring humans and animals to a level of understanding or habit so they can handle certain tasks on their own.
Remember, T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G
Heck, most of the people I know who use computers don't really know how to. A friend who just last year was afraid to connect a printer to the computer is now the expert in her group because she put a simple spreadsheet together.
T-R-A-I-N-I-N-G
LoB
I guess you could see watching movies on it if you've not seen them already and somehow automated the recording and downloading. Like having Tivo record them at night and put them on the microDrive. You grab the iPaq and drive, then head for the bus.
At only $100 difference, you made the right choice. Personally, the $250 models fit my bill. Throw in the $40 Charge-N-Run charger and you've go a Palm V for cheap (minus the shine).
I do see some uses for the iPaq but as a daily PDA an overkill IMO. I have used a Go-Type keyboard and my Palm IIIx to replace my laptop on business trips I need notetaking and email. Not too easy using the PDA for a remote XServer though I do use telnet to manage my headless firewall.
I'll still say that the $200 PalmOS based PDA's are the best deal for most users. Again, throw Charge-N-Run in for $40 and you don't have to deal with batteries anymore. The Palm IIIxe is the best low end with the m125 the next best. IMHO
I'm a gadget guy but I just don't see what the extra $300 gets me that's SOOOO great that I can't do without it. Sounds like it's for you though.
LoB
I was thinking that you were going to say something about WHAT YOU DO with your iPaq but all you said was it does the WOW things. Movies, games, MP3, etc are gimics and you can only get so much out of just showing it off. Eventually you want to use it. That is still alot of cash and weight for all those gimics. IMHO.
There are some cases where the iPaq fits but as a PDA, PalmOS based devices are the better deal. Mine fits in almost all my pockets and goes everywhere I go. Handera has the ultimate PDA since it does CF and SD while being the size and weight of a Palm IIIxe and only $300.
Gimics come and go but when work has to be done, get the right tool for the job or your just wasting your money. IMHO
LoB
No I'm not sure how many IIS servers are running
.NYET!
their databases on the same machine or how accessable a database would be onced IIS was hacked and admin priv's were gained, but they, the press, never mention how vulnerable the customers data is on a Microsoft system. My CC has already been stolen and I'm darn sure it was because one site used IIS. Actually both mine and my wifes CC numbers were stolen and used for similar purposes.
Other similarities pointed to a ASP based server we used for a service we bought online.
The press is still leaving Microsoft alone as far as I'm concerned. They need to be called for what they are.
Bad for ebusiness, bad for corporate profits, and not to be trusted with customer data.
FEAR
IMHO.
LoB
company, Macs over 5 years. Is it just because the bog standard PC is so crapply built that it dies after 3 years?
It's the crappy OS. Windows 95 was slightly better then Windows 3.1 compared to OS/2 at the time. Windows 98 and ME were again, just slightly better then the previous and they crashed like crasy while falling apart annually ( requires reinstall ). The Windows NT thread was somewhat better but each new version required new hardware because of the bloat.
That, IMHO, is why the PC has only a 3 year lifespan. Run some other operating system and that same PC will last you 5+ years.
If business's think that faster machines will make for faster work then they are way off. IMO. From what I've seen, most workers have very little computer skills and just get by. They will do things that don't make any sense to someone who knows the apps inside and out. But that is how they figured out how to do the task and they keep doing it. Business's would save millions by just training the employees. Training tied directly to the tasks as we know most people don't remember 25% of what they teach in those classes.
LoB
I'd venture to guess that they have bought the guts of the Palm IIIxe's and put their own plastics around it. Doesn't it say it's Palm IIIxe compatible? They should have said "hardware compatible" so people here wouldn't freik out.
Looks like there are a few sane ones hanging here.
;/
Not only that bull but how about it taking 3 paragraphs for a comparison of KOffice and StarOffice?
The KOffice and M$ Office review wasn't too bad/uneven but 3 paragraphs?
ZiffDavis lacky bought in the buyout by CNet.
IMHO.
LoB
Just wait and see how the government overreacts. Bush is already using this to increase his defense budget and now the FAA will enact some silly security proceedures. Not that all are silly, just that what was already in place seemed to have worked, it's just that it never dawned on them that a plane would be used as a weapon.
I remember that one guy hijacked a plane with a vile of water. He said it was nitro glycerine. The only way to prevent this is to secure the controls of the airplanes. That is it. If hijackers knew that the passengers would NOT let them take control, could this even happened?
Doubtful. Too bad the proceedures that will be put in place will do more damage to the economy then as already been done by adding hours and days onto mail and passenger deliveries.
IMO.
LoB