Slashdot Mirror
More Links And Reports On Terrorist Attacks
Two major news updates: the plane downed near Pittsburgh is reported not to have been shot down. A fifth plane which had been feared hijacked, this one a Korean Air jetliner, was forced down by Canadian Air Force planes over the Yukon. However, this plane is reported not to have been hijacked -- instead, its emergency beacon was triggered by a low-fuel indicator.
Importantly -- remember, blood is in demand. The Red Cross' site is mobbed, but here's the blood donation information on a the cached page at google.
More details of the attack and its aftermath: a report at at gnome.org, and a photo at indymedia.org. pajama links to NYC Police scanner traffic (winamp) streamed online, and an anonymous reader also points to another scanner feed.
Shadowwalker Delaforge writes "Hey guys: I'm submitting my web site to yours to get the word out. I've been compiling web sites, and info on the U.S. Attack. These sites are ones that work, and arent' swamped out of existence. I'm also adding new data about where people can donate money, blood, and other things dealing with this.
soccerdad writes "Due to the activities of today, the internet/networking experts at my firm have been asked by some of our clients to be on standby in case anything untoward occurs. They've been monitoring backbone activity, etc., in a "just in case" mode. They've described the activity they're seeing as somewhat strange. The backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic. They're working on doing some traffic analysis but haven't completed that effort yet."
A small piece of that bandwidth may be saved if you go to the link Kalak suggests: "William Shunn is collecting short notes from people in the terrorist affected areas so you can see who is OK." Look here (or post your name here if you're in an affected city) before tying up a phone connection. Alex Fabrikant submitted another personal information site at Berkeley
Thapthim writes "http://cbc.ca/ has all sorts of information, even in our own city buildings are being shutdown, all air traffic has been suspended. However Canadian Airports are taking in international flights heading into US so the air ports there are free for emergencies."
sn0wcrsh wrote to say that a "short blurb on Channel 7 Boston that the CTO of Akamai was on the fateful plane that hit the trade center" confirms the earlier reports that he was on board.
And ectrix writes: "The CFO of my company, Netegrity was on United Airlines Flight 175, which has been confirmed to us by United Airlines to have hit tower two of the WTC.
WAVY NBC - Norfolk, VA (among other local TV stations I'm sure) is reporting on the air the Threatcon levels at the area Naval, Air Force, and Army bases. They are all at Threatcon Delta. Their website currently only lists their status as of the beginning of the attacks, which was Threatcon Charlie. Norfolk, VA is the home port for the US Atlantic Fleet. Local TV stations also are showing armed (M16s, shotguns) guards patrolling the base grounds and perimeters."
There are updated photos and videos here, and CarbonFusion wrote with another good link to photos and videos.. eddiem writes: "http://www.flightexplorer.com/ will soon let you view the flight path of the planes." Explanations of airport security at How Stuff Works and Cryptome are an interesting read under the circumstances as well.
Bard, Andrew wrote with some updates as well:
"Just to let you know:
- I heard a woman who was on the 92nd floor of the first WTC building when the plane hit it. She was able to escape and so was everyone "in her company" so it is assumed that virtually everyone from the 92nd floor down was evacuated successfully - an estimated 20,000 people of the 25,000 in the building.
- the plane that went down in PA had a woman onboard who locked herself in the bathroom with her cellular phone - she was telling authorities about the hijacking when the plane crashed and killed her - that is the only way the authorities knew for sure what plane went down in PA so quickly, she gave her flight number
- the Mexican border is completely closed and the Canadian border is still open - all International flights have been redirected to Northern Canada
- the planes from Boston were presumably chosen because they were going on long flights (to LA) which would make them larger than average airliners with full tanks of gas
- when the first WTC building crashed (which was the 2nd one to be hit), 125 firemen were down below fighting the fire on the first building to be hit... none of them have been heard from yet - 10,000 emergency personnel in NYC responded to the first WTC getting hit... it is unknown how many of those were crushed in the two collapsed buildings."
Canadian border has been since sealed.
Derek Greene
if it wasn't for slashdot i wouldn't have been able to stay informed of the situation. I thank all people involved with providing such information.
http://www.spack.nu/wtc/wtcboom.jpg
Opinion stuff: National Review Online
The Economist
The best commentary I've picked up today.
Here is a link on Yahoo! that is just their most recent pictures. I saw up to about page 5 or 6 that were just of this.
"Time is long and life is short, so begin to live while you still can." -EV
http://www.unspeakable.org/wtc
Please email me all your pics and movies, as I will put them online also.
email them to crimson@unspeakable.org
oogly boogly!
Wish I could be more informative, but check the tv - building 7 (part of the WTC complex) collapsed, but it was expected and officials were waiting for about a half hour, from what I heard. Apparently, injuries from this collapse are minimal.
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.
Don't forget that the entire world is reporting on this as well... the BBC in particular has some excellent resources.
I'm almost certain I'm not cranky at you...
I would like to (try) to be the first to thank the Slashteam, the editors, and all Slashdotters themselves for their response to this. I woke up and just happened to check Slashdot before I left for work. I arrived an hour late thanks to CNN and my own astonishment. Later through the day, while news sites went up and down, Slashdot's commentary provided ample links to news sources for those of us trapped in cubicles.
Huzzah to you!
The 3rd building just collapsed. CNN reports either building 5 or 7 which has been burning since this morning, went down.
I'm in Canada, and despite our differences with our friends to the south, this incident is just horrific. Seeing the towers collapse was the most stunning and sickening sight I've ever seen.
Condolences and regards to all those in New York, and around America.
One question. Where was that 4th plane headed? Looked like the Pentagon from the ATC displays CNN showed...
Actually, that statement above is exactly the opposite of correct. ABC is reporting the Canadian border crossings are closed (remember the guy they nabbed on the runup to Y2K in Washington State). Mexican border crossings are open, except for San Ysidro (near San Diego).
I'm disappointed that it is so easy to hijack planes. I think airplane crew should be armed and the cockpit better protected. Airplanes are vulnerable targets with a large payoff for terrorists, and should be protected accordingly.
Killing innocent civilians serves no good purpose. I just hope that principle is remembered even in anger and during calls for revenge. If you can positively identify and kill those responsible, fine, but if you are prepared to see the deaths of innocent civilians in the pursuit of revenge, then you have no moral advantage over the terrorists.
http://rareformnewmedia.com/
Most people seem to not know where Dubya is right now...CBC Radio here in Toronto is reporting that the "undisclosed" location of the president is in fact at a National Security meeting in Nebraska.
Thought some of you would like to know. I still don't believe this is happening.
I am amazed at how well the internet has helped disseminate information. I am surprised by the lack of rumors and the amazing compilation pages of information.
What was really heartening was this:
http://www.worldtradecenter.com
Usually it's some jerk looking to make money. This person looks to be really trying to help.
KMBZ radio reports Kansas City, MO has gas at $5/gallon, and another of $4/gallon in Louisville, KY.
That would imply that there is an expectation of serious middle eastern turmoil.
Oh, and thanks for bumping that ass Katz. Maybe next time you'll have the sense to just remove that crap. Only a total fool would try to label this event "Techno-Armageddon".
My God, what happened?
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Slashdot reported a 5th plane crashed in an undisclosed location. Australian news also speaks of 5 plans. BUT MSNBC & CNN all report 4 planes. Where did the 5th plane go?
and with all that's going on, we still have the stupid surge protector poll on slashdot? cmon people, show some sense of opportunity! give us an interesting poll!
I've heard through the grapevine that gas prices are going through the roof in some areas. Supposedly Lafayette, Indiana has $7 a gallon
gas prices and here in central Illinois where I'm at the stations have long lines.. What about where you are?
Kirby
http://www.WinWithRealEstate.com/
Here's a list over IT related companies in WTC (comments in swedish):6
http://nyheter.idg.se/display.asp?ID=010911-SOS
KNX 1070 newsradio has news on this and seems to be handling the load fairly well
they also have links to a lot of good images and videos
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
I don't even know what to say.. Just had to say something........
What a grave day..
VOTE!
Please remember that in many parts of the US today is an ELECTION DAY.
Bruce Davis
UNIX Systems Administrator
Lernout & Hauspie Speech Products
Burlington, MA USA
"I'm The Bounty Bear. I will find him anywhere. I'm searching."
Its on their today in history page.
__
L.
On the fear of being redundant, you guys at Slashdot did a spectacular job. When other sites were getting blitzed of the net by traffic, Slashdot and other tech news sites (CNET and WIRED for starters) picked up the slack and kept people informed. You also did an incredible job keeping the servers up under the crushing weight of everyone. Thanks again, guys.
Electronic Frontier Foundation for online civil rights information
Poliglut we've got a running diary with links of the whole day.
I find it highly ironic that, yet again, everyone instantly jumps to the conclusion that it was Arabs who are behind these tragedies. Does anyone else remember Oklahoma City, and the rush to judgement there, when in the end it was a white hick with a gap tooth. Let's face it, there's a whole lot of people out there that hate the US, and for good reason (I was going to put a list here, but it's really just about everyone except Israel, Japan, Western Europe, and Canada). We've been exploiting these places economically for decades now, and if you ask me, it's about time they stood up for themselves. And, before you say "economic domination does not merit this kind of response" - let me pose this question - what other way is there to respond when you are facing an opponent who has the money, owns the world legal system (has the money), and owns large numbers of world politicians (has the money)? In any event, let's hope that the American government can set an example in not responding with force until it is COMPLETELY positive who it is retaliating against, and let's hope as well that civilian casualties that come from the retaliation are minimal. Furthermore let's hope American citizens wake up to what their government and corporations are doing around the world in time to prevent more of these attacks, before they happen, because that is the only way to eliminate the problem.
http://usterror.nashlink.net has been setup to keep up to date information on the attacks, and their aftermath. It's running slashcode, please stop by and take a look, or help post information and links from sites to keep people up to date. Thanks.
My office building is right behind Lester B. Pearson Airport in Toronto, Ontario, Canada and it's usually very busy with airplane traffic. It's eerie now that there is none. The shock can be felt around the world. Deepest sympathies from Canada.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
Um, if you'll take a quick read up there *beforE* overreacting, he says 'give more blood' not give *me* more blood'. And as far as I am concerned, it is both appropriate and important. There is little that any of us can do in this tragedy, we cannot hunt down those responsible, we cannot directly aid those hurt, we cannot turn back the hands of time and stop this from ever having happened. But one thing that we can all do is donate blood, which is sorely needed in these relief efforts, especially if you are Type O. Next time, take a breath, calm down, and make sure you know what you're reading before writing.
"Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
It's "give more blood" and it refers to the need of more blood donations.
First learn to read properly, then come back to bitch and moan.
You must've been educated in public school... it says "give-more-blood"... without the "me".
It's a call to donate... you might want to pick up a brain while you're there. He's not THAT ignorant.
MadCow.
I used to have a sig, but I set it free and it never came back.
/. is international, so you might wanna check it out:
Tagesschau
Welt
Rheinische Post
Spiegel Online
Stern
All of these sites have good picture coverage for those who do not speak German. And they are way faster than all US sites at the moment!
I think the current poll is inappropriate.
I think that it would be cool if slashdot would use the poll to see what people, in general, are feeling about todays events.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
"They've described the activity they're seeing as somewhat strange. The backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic. They're working on doing some traffic analysis but haven't completed that effort yet"
The data at Internet Health Report would lead me to believe that, other than a higher-than-usual web browsing traffic to specific sites, it's business as usual for the majority of the internet.
I'd like to see any contrary information, though.
This sig is xenon coated, and will glow red when in the presence of aliens
Let me be among the first to thank Timothy for the links. If possible, could somene point to a source on engineering that would explain if/how it is possible for a building to collapse from the top down, as the towers did?
If you want my respect, give it first...
If you don't want my respect, expect mine before you give it.
I was flipping through the latest Wired magazine while watching the news reports. I was looking through the record reviews and saw THIS. An album cover of the WTC exploding. I was floored.
ian @ polpo . org
Forgive his enemy, and try to avoid destroying them. A lesson most of the jerkwad posters round here need to learn.
I live on Prince Edward Island, Canada. I have been following the news (mostly CNN) since I heard about the attrocities perpetrated on you, our southern cousins.
Though it may not be very helpful in a practical way, I offer you all, at least the vibrational support (all I have to offer) in your time of grief. I know I'm not alone in the way I feel up here in Canada.
You "Yanks", as we sometimes call you are our friends and historically very much our cousins. You are family. We have you in our hearts.
I copied this from here.
http://members.home.com/pludodog/page1.htm
My friend took this from the Jersey shore with his cam, they may not be better than the news, but they're still frickin scary.
He's saying "GIVE MORE BLOOD"... as in DONATE to the Red Cross... Don't jump to conclusions until you've read these things carefully... we're all upset and hurt. Spreading more hate and anger isn't helping anyone.
In space, no one can hear you moo.
This is not a troll. I repeat, this is not a troll. I just want people to think about the philsophy behind these lyrics, and how it applies to the terrorists, the people shouting "WAR", the people shouting "Bomb the Middle East", the people shouting "Turn the Other Cheek", and everyone else who has formed some opinion...
My point: are we really all assholes? Who's the asshole here? Who's supposed to be the asshole? Who wants whom to be the asshole?
Asshole [Guttermouth]
I don't like the things you like
And you don't like the things I like
She don't like the things they like
So who the fuck is really right
See a skinhead at a show
Let him know he's got to go
Fuck white power, the KKK
A-S-S-H-O-L-E!
Chorus
Everyone's an asshole ("Raging asshole")
My mom's an asshole ("Fuck you asshole")
You're a fucking asshole ("Fucking asshole")
And I'm a goddamn asshole
Mom and dad, the Grateful Dead
Major labels and straight edge
Coors and school and roller blades
God, Rick James and Oakley shades
Fishing, Wayne, silly jocks
Nazis, midgets, new tube socks
L.D. from M.R.&R.
And fucking Zeppelin Man
Everyone's an asshole ("Raging asshole")
My mom's an asshole ("Fuck you asshole")
You're a fucking asshole ("Fucking asshole")
And I'm a goddamn asshole
Everyone's an asshole ("Raging asshole")
My mom's an asshole ("Fuck you asshole")
You're a fucking asshole ("Fucking asshole")
And I'm a goddamn asshole
Hippies, harleys, Pearl Jam
Chili peppers, case of Spam
Riot grrls, Ponch and Jon
Squash and pork and carmel flan
We hate these things
We hate you, too
Go fuck a monkey in the zoo
Oscar Meyer has a way with
B.O.L.O.G.N.A.
(I apologize in advance if I got any of the lyrics wrong.)
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
Only a few short weeks ago I walked a couple of times across the Brooklyn and Manhattan bridges, to get some fresh air. I took a bunch of pictures of the evening New York City skyline. Amongst them were a couple of shot of the WTC towers. Little did I know that this would be the last time I'd see them.
Please see my short tribute to the World Trace Center towers:
/ farewelltowtc/index.html.
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Peaks/5799
God have mercy on these souls.
/. was down 1/2 the morning and it's been in flake-mode ever since - you know where links always go back to the front page, logins are lost, etc.. no big deal, there was probably a lot of traffic.
the only places i was getting news from were www.codeproject.com (aussie winodws programming site) and www.washingtonpost.com.
-c
I have discovered a truly remarkable proof which this margin is too small to contain.
Anyone notice that there were no psychics predicting this diaster or any of the other major ones in the past? Will we ever learn that they're all frauds?
Stratfor
Concise, more comprehensive than anything else I've seen, and by far the best analysis.
Usually, they're a leading foreign policy website, focusing on 'intelligence' rather than 'news'.
Remember, the power of terrorists is terror -- don't let them win.
There are no large airports in Northern Canada! The big ones, where most if not all of the flights are heading, are Vancouver, Toronto, and Goose Bay. These are the ones that can handle the traffic. Please see a post above from Vancouver, here in Toronto it's pretty nuts.
It doesn't mean much now, it's built for the future.
Blackbox recovered.
Hairy Islamic camelfucker: "God is great. God is Great. IEEE!! Allah! Death to the Great Satan."
Explosion. Silence.
This comment violates the comment compression filter. So I've had to add this bit in. Fuck slashdot.
Word has it the terrorist learned to fly the aircraft aided by a copy of Microsoft Flight Simulator!
A rememberance campaign has been started to mourn today's victim and their loved ones. Webmasters are encouraged to participate and replace their banners in commemoration. Small ribbon images are available to place on your website. Please see http://remember.worldatwar.org
(assuming this motivated by Islamic Terrorists)
This is the first time America has suffered tremendous casualities of the Holy War ongoing in the middle east. I hope that when the dust settles america realizes that the people who commited this horenous act... are in fact people too. Despite how painful it might be to acknowledge this, they are people just like you and me.
Most people like you and me are not motivated sufficiently to give up their life for a cause. In fact, in Islamic traditions, suicide means a certain fate in hell. Yet today we have been visited with a horror that could only be brought by suicidical means.
How could people like you and me veto their natural basic instict for survival? God. The devout belief in God provides an "out". You don't need to worry about your survival if your mind is operating on the assumption that there is something greater than life.
I would hope that Americans can set aside their own personal beliefs and unite in an attempt to ban practicing religion. It is religion that killed the Aztecs. It is religion that brought us the inquisition. It is religion that has brought us the non-stop terror in the middle east. 2 very talented programmers (and slashdot readers) I know were drafted into the Isreal Armed Forces last year. 4 Months ago one of them was killed. I lost a friend because of a "Belief". How many friends and family did you lose today because of a "Belief"?
Having watched this on uk tv all day, one thing i've noticed is that almost every american interviewed firstly makes the point that it was "an attack on civilization and democracy" and "the whole world", whereas everyone else (and me included) is of the opinion that it was an attack on the american authority and all that jiz.
The second point they make is that there will be no delay in american retaliation. I heard one guy say [something like] "thousands have been killed today. America will be sure to retaliate immediatly, and with great force" (ok so i can't exactly remember but you get the idea). Another one said "this is not a case for a single missile strike [about the usa's retalliation], more a sustained attack", presumably meaning the usa plans to use their patented "bomb the f#ck out of everyone" technique to make themselves feel better.
There is good coverage of this at http://www.stratfor.com/ with analysis of the impact on an economic and political scale.
First off - my previous post had 2 errors, 'Debt of Honour' was Clancey's book, and yes, GWB was not in power last year, my apologies in writing at too fevered a pitch.
h tm l
e -c p.html
Now, my report regarding the escorted landing of two 747's at Whitehorse International Airport:
11:42am A Korean Airlines cargo 747-400 landed using every inch of available runway
11:50am We spotted another inbound jet
11:52am A Korea Airlines passenger 747 landed coming down just 15 feet above the fence....an awesome and scary sight from only 100 feet away. 3 F-18's (hard to say, they were pretty high up) escorted them in and continued to circle Whitehorse's airspace.
Luckily Whitehorse's runway had just been extended to facilitate 747's last year.
Emergency vehicles kept their distance from both planes, the passenger plane having taxied back to the north end of the runway, as far away from the terminal as possible.
A gray truck approached the passenger plane, dispersing ground personnel to chalk the wheels, then fell in behind an officer wielding a long barreled weapon and backed up behind the officer to the truck and departed the scene
A ramp was brought to the aircraft but no one left for about 20 minutes (at 12:36pm) when a single male came down and walked towards the police vehicles (we could hear the occasional word from a police loudspeaker) he made it about half way when he was obviously ordered to lift his shirt up, turn around, lift his pant legs, then he removed the shirt completely, holding it over his head while continuing to walk towards the vehicles. People with binoculars were able to see several FBI jackets amongst the police. There was a lear jet nearby which was probably used to get the FBI here from Alaska (since as far as I know we don't have any resident FBI in Yukon).
At 12:43pm we were ordered away from the area by the RCMP. Apparently for 'our own safety' - we were on crown land, outside the airport's perimeter fence.
There is the possibility that we may be receiving up to 10 planes, but I have no idea where they could park them.
Further information available at:
http://www.canoe.ca/MoneyNews/sept11_yukon-dow.
http://www.canoe.ca/CNEWSWorldTrade0109/11_whit
http://cbc.ca/
Kudos for slashdot for being one of the only sites to stay up during a world crisis. You rose to the challenge when needed.
Further:
The entire article is copied below.
U.S. pondering its response
'No options taken off the table' -- senior U.S. official
By Michael Moran
MSNBC
Sept. 11 -- Reeling from the most devastating day of terrorist attacks in history, President George W. Bush and his advisors struggled on Tuesday to devise a response that would convey the depth of the outrage felt across the United States without appearing to lash out blindly.
THE SCALE of the attacks and the loss of life -- mostly in New York City's World Trade Center, but also in Pittsburgh and Washington -- ensured that "no option has been taken off the table," senior U.S. officials said. Asked if that included nuclear weapons, one senior official said: "I said no option is out of the question. That's precisely what I mean."
The nature and precision of the attacks, along with their unknown origin, left the United States with no useful precedents or contingency plans to fall back on. Procedurally, the attacks prompted officials to institute safeguards consistent with a state of war: Airspace over major American cities was cleared of commercial traffic and replaced by military interceptors; large, obvious targets like the White House, Capitol building, the Disney theme parks in Florida and California and the Sears Tower in Chicago, were evacuated. Most tellingly, the president, vice president, congressional leaders and other key government officials were spirited to secure, undisclosed locations -- an indication that the attacks achieved an astounding degree of surprise.
Indeed, many officials echoed the words of the U.S. Atlantic Fleet's commander, Navy Adm. Robert J. Natter: "We have been attacked like we haven't been attacked since Pearl Harbor." He then dispatched aircraft carriers to the waters off New York and Washington -- an unprecedented step -- to provide air cover.
HIGH ALERT
The United States military and its diplomatic organs quickly ordered steps consistent with imminent action.
President Bush placed American military commands around the world, including North American Air Defense Command, or NORAD, on their highest level of alert. Air Force One, carrying Bush, landed briefly at Offutt Air Force Base in Nebraska, the home of Strategic Air Command, the nation's nuclear war fighting command, as well as the so-called "doomsday plane," a flying command post meant for use in case of a nuclear attack on America.
Ambassadors of the world's most powerful military alliance, the North Atlantic Treaty Organization, scheduled an emergency meeting for 5 p.m. ET to discuss the crisis at NATO headquarters in Brussels, Belgium.
While no public accusations of blame were made by the U.S. government, senior officials, along with experts on terrorism, were unanimous in their belief that the attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who leads the shadowy Al-Qaeda terrorist organization. "No one else but Bin Laden has the capability to do this is Bin Laden," one senior intelligence official said. "No one."
Bin Laden is living in Afghanistan as a guest of the Islamic regime there, the Taliban. The United States already has warned the Taliban that any act of terrorism on American soil by bin Laden or his followers would be regarded as an act of war.
That said, exactly how to hit out at bin Laden has been a continuing problem for the United States. U.S. intelligence agencies once tracked his movements within Afghanistan fairly reliably by eavesdropping on cell phone communications. Bin Laden has long since stopped using cell phones and is now said to sleep in a different safe house each night. Three years ago, after the dual bombings at American embassies in Kenya and Mozambique were tied to Al-Qaeda, the United States launched Tomahawk cruise missiles at suspected bin Laden training camps in Afghanistan and a plant in Sudan the CIA suspected of ties with him. Neither air strike did much to dissuade him. The U.S. suspects bin Laden's hand behind the April 2000 attack on the USS destroyer Cole in Yemen.
MILITARY OPTIONS
As President Bush weighs options, the difficulty of pinpointing bin Laden -- if in fact the United States decides he is responsible -- presents a dilemma. Among the options under active consideration:
Major retaliatory airstrikes: The United States could strike at Afghanistan with missile strikes -- possibly even tactical nuclear weapons -- to demonstrate its anger and the grave consequences of such an attack on U.S. soil.
Military invasion: The president could declare war on Afghanistan and order a buildup of forces similar to that which preceded the Gulf War in 1990. Such a move, however, would require the acquiescence of a neighboring state -- either Pakistan or one of the former Soviet Central Asian nations.
Manhunt: The Army's Delta Force or other assets could be inserted into Afghanistan to hunt down Bin Laden.
Proxy action: The United States could exert extreme diplomatic pressure on Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, two states that have supported the Afghan Taliban in the past, to bring Bin Laden to justice.
'NO EASY ANSWERS'
Each and every one of these options has drawbacks, however, and those potential pitfalls will animate the debates of the coming days within the U.S. national security establishment. For instance, the use of nuclear weapons, in any form, risks alienating a world that is almost united in its revulsion at such attacks -- and whose help will be necessary in preventing future such attacks.
"The worst thing we can do is to completely lose our cool and overreact," said Sean Anderson, domestic terrorism expert at Idaho State University who studied the Oklahoma City bombing and the first attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.
"The best thing we can do is carry on, not to depart from our ordinary constitutional legal processes
Indeed, it is quite possible the United States will refrain from any immediate action until investigators have time to more thoroughly make the case against whoever directed the attack.
"There are not a lot of easy answers," former Secretary of State James Baker told NBC News. "The president, I think, did the right thing when he said 'we're under terrorist attack and we're going to hunt down those responsible.' "
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
I'm not american. I'm british. I work 100 yards from the London Stock Exchange, which was evacuated - so were we, by our MD. I was scared shitless. I can't imagine how you're feeling in the US. This has proved to the entire world that nowhere is safe from terrorism.
My suggestion? I assume that there will be a fund set up to help those injured in these attacks, and their families. It may have been set up already. My suggestion - donate your tax rebates to this fund. I received a tax rebate from the UK government a couple of weeks ago - I intend to donate mine. It's the least I can do.
Here is the press release from Akamai itself.
Gee, the title of that post is so ... appropriate
Every body assume attack comes from a very powerfull organization, but could it be organized by a very little group of people (a dozen may be). This people are working in airports and some are pilots, and they just hacked security airport ? What could be their motivations ?
Just imagine what must have be going through his head if he didn't do it? Sheer abject terror would be my guess.
I do hope that whatever the American response is, there is not a lot of collateral damage. A surgical strike that only removes Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Iran from the world scene would probably be the best we can hope for.
I can only imagine what the members of the American forces in the middle east must be thinking right now...
Casca
the way to fight terrorism is through unity. currently it's assumed that it was fundamentalist islamic terrorists. true or not, i hope non-muslim americans will reach out to the muslims in their community who are no doubt just as horrified. all americans - muslim and non-muslim - as well as citizens the free world over need to be united in their revulsion to this horror.
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
CNN is reporting on TV that there are explosions in Kabul, Afghanistan
What good is a used up world, and how could it be worth having? --Sting
just on cnn
Let it out slowly...
Now ask yourself:
What can I do to help?
What can I do to make sure nothing like this happens to ANYONE again?
What must I NOT do because it will just make things worse?
Take another deep breath...
Let it out slowly...
Now, go do what you know is right.
Stonewolf
the world will end...and... I FUCKED YOUR MOM (and am proceeding to skullfuck every corpse in new york, guffaw guffaw guffaw).
Video on CNN
From the beginning we've heard essentially that these attacks were "unprovoked acts of terrorism" I seriously suggest everyone consider that carefully. From my perspective the two biggest suspects are American Militia groups and Islamic Fundamentalists, possibly Palestinian ones. Either way, would an attack by them upon the US be "unprovoked?" I seem to remember several incidents where the US Gov't has trampled the constitution in their dealings with militia groups. The reactionary FBI raids that have left dozens dead, most of whom weren't resisting (Randy Weaver's wife, etc.) Then what if it is Palestinians? I seem to remember the US funding and arming the Israelis, who constantly persecute the Palestinians in rather Nazi-esque manners at times. Yes, the deaths of US citizens are tragic, but do not let Uncle Sam get away with spinning this as someone else's fault! Do let these deaths be meaningless, they are all martyrs, they were all slain in cold blood by the enemy, and that enemy is the US Gov't! Mod me down as some fanatic or weirdo, but look at the facts, I don't see Canada getting attacked, and that's because Canada isn't funding programs of genocide against domestic and foreign peoples alike.
Kabul, Afghanistan is being attacked from the air apparently. Turn on CNN if you have a TV.
Wathing CNN right now. Kabul, Afghanistan is being attacked from the air.
.@.
Aditionally, I just heard, that Barbara Olsen, passenger on one of the planes, told her husband, that the terrorists were armed with no more than "knives and cardboard cutters". To me, this basically spells, that there is, no way, that it is virtually impossible to rule out forever a repeat of this kind of sickness. Of course, any kind of sharp object should and will be banned from any future flight,, but that just means they will have to invent a new type of weapon, one that will go undetected, like a wooden knive sheathed in a wooden sheath, together seeming a simple, harmless stick.
Smuggling simple weapons will be almost impossible to eliminate totally.
Some kind of military type fight seems to have broken out in/around Kabul. See other news sources for details.
Stefan.
The truth shall make you fret. (Ankh-Morpork tImes motto)
I still find it difficult to bend my mind around the idea that today's attacks occurred not in Chechnya or Israel, but in the heart of American civilization. The very heart. I know, however, that America will survive this attack at punish those responsible. While perhaps "Pearl Harbor" is an extreme comparison, because we don't seem to be at war with a defined nation, it certainly will provoke almost as strong a change in public opinion and policy as that surprise attack.
Here at Macalester College in St. Paul, far far away from today's incidents, The state of MN has responded by shutting down the Mall of America and some of the larger buildings in downtown Mpls. and St. Paul. All over the cities, people are congregating, grieving for those lost and for the massive, mindless hatred and violence of today.
I think for millions of us, the most striking thing about this incident is its totally surreal nature. It is reminiscent of the end of Fight Club, or some kind of cartoonish super-villiany. The incident in Oklahoma City seemed far more within the realm of reality than "The destrucion of the WTC and a chunk of the Pentagon?!? Oh, please!"
In my opinion the best photo I've seen is located here. I suspect it'll be on the cover of TIME or Newsweek.
As for those of you angry with Mr. Katz for being trite: FUCK YOU! Thousands of people are DEAD and you have the balls to be angry with a man who's lost someone and prayed about it?! Only on the anonymous Internet would a person dare to tell someone they were being trite mourning a friend lost violently. You cruel bastards...
Oh on one last note, remember the trailers for the Spiderman movie? Will the scene with a bad-guy helicopter caught by a web between the WTC towers be kept for final theatrical release??
--hongpong.com
I just listen it in the radio.
Thoughts...when will the new ones be built?
In Kabul, Afghanistan, CNN reports that there is anti-aircraft fire going up from the city, along with tracer fire. Missiles flying across the city, a building is on fire.
So Afganistan is after all... Kabul is under siege
Looks *exactly* like the beginning of the Gulf War
According to MSNBC 40 story WTC 7 has come down as well. I tried to find more info on there page but there doesn't appear to be any. Please post more infomation or other links if you have them.
Kabul, Afghanistan is under attack.
::Colz Grigor
Looks just like Baghdad in 1991.
Kabul is under fire according to CNN. no link yet.
This is getting very, very scary....
>My God, what happened?
/. we bemoan what corporatism in league with the government are doing to the information sector, but it still remains uncommon to be able to travel over 3000 miles with as few controls as are possible here. But an open society requires a citizenry (and alien residents and visitors) that values it and behaves accordingly.
The ultimate "tragedy of the commons".
The United States has been a wonderful experiment in an open society. On
That last assumption may no longer be valid, and what that does to an open society, I have no idea.
On a slight side note, this does the Palestinians no good at all. If they really wanted sympathy and to affect US policy, they should have made a movie set on the West Bank, with everyday life as a backdrop. Instead they've merely upped the body count. (Presuming it's not Son of Timothy, and the data IS rather indicative.) While I agree that 'appeasement' doesn't work, I fear what may have been awakened in the US, and only hope our response, whenever it comes, is properly 'measured'.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Someone is bombing kabul.
If it's the US, which is the most likely,
how, exactly, is this different from the
'cowardly' assault on NY and Washington?
It's sure starting to look that way.
that was quick. images live on CNN. Cruise missiles, apparently.
US-speak for "we would like you had over Mr. Bin Laden please. Like, now."
afganistan is being attacked
Who is attacking Kabul? Anyone in non-US countries with access to different news sources? No news from anyone except CNN here.
CNN is reporting that Kabul is under attack. Pretty swift retaliation I would say...
We are attacking (at least) Kabul, Afghanistan as I sit here. My hope is that evidence from the flight recorder of the plane that crashed in PA led to this and it's not just a "shoot first ask questions later" kinda thing.
Wu-Tang Name: Half-Cut Skeleton Get your own Wu-Na
There's explosions in afghanistan now. Kabul has multiple explosions, CNN is suggesting that they see lights that look like they were at the speed of cruise missles. Anyone heard more about this?
CNN is showing something in Kabul, Afghanistan, explosions and tracer fire
>To me, this basically spells, that there is, no >way, that it is virtually impossible to rule out >forever a repeat of this kind of sickness. Of >course, any kind of sharp object should and will >be banned from any future flight,, but that just >means they will have to invent a new type of >weapon, one that will go undetected, like a >wooden knive sheathed in a wooden sheath, >together seeming a simple, harmless stick.
Rather than banning all sharp objects on flights, how about stationing security personel on the flights with something (a 6 shooter, a cattle prod, or a blowgun, for instance) capable of defeating a cardboard cutter.
Just heard this on the radio.
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
CNN (TV) is now reporting explosions in Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan. No word on the source.
Not to be redundant, but we all need to stay rational and cool headed right now.
Apparently there was just another plane crash in West Dayton, OH. I'm not sure if it's related to what's going on at all, but my friend who lives about 5 miles from it said that he heard a big boom, the windows rattled and he turned on the TV to find out there'd just been a plane crash.
I've been watching various channels (in UK) on TV and CNN has been getting the best and quickest coverage IMO.
So for those that don't have CNN on their telly, explosions are going on in Kabul, Afghanistan. Watching the video feed, you can see a huge fire lit up, probably a fuel dump hit. I wonder if the US are already retaliating?
to donate money to the red cross, check https://www.redcross.org/donate/donation-form.asp
Do not wait for the US to retaliate. Lets get those responsible NOW.
Here is the main site of the terrorists:
www.afghanistan-ie.com
The site has been nmapped and it appears quite vulnerable. Lets OWN THIS MACHINE for the US and for democracy. Show them our technical superiority.
Btw, its hosted in SINGAPORE so we now consider us at cyberwar with SINGAPORE too.
As terrible as this action was, a number of people (enough to find at least 5 experienced pilots under them) were prepared to give their lives for a chance to deliver a blow to America.
Think about that before you make things worse.
What we have seen today, I think, was an impressive demonstration of the Internet. It jammed but it wouldn't break. News sites DoS'ed but came back soon. Some were online all the way through (sky.com), maybe because it ran Solaris. People set up their own news servers/mirrors.
And slashdot camde back to their motto. Well half of actually.
Not really news for nerds. But definately stuff that matters.
+++ath0
Turn fucking Afghanistan into a piece of glass. Hunt down anyone and everyone (and every country) who has ever sympathized with or donated so much as a nickel to Ben Ladin or anyone even remotely connected to him and kill them. Then go after the Palestinians and anyone connected with them. We should also hunt down every last apologist and sympathizer for these scum. Our response should be so overwhelmingly devastating that noone will ever, ever think of trying something like this again.
Mirrors of news sites and alternative footage of the events @ www.tweakt.net/news
We have 2 747's (Korean Airlines) sitting on the runway at Whitehorse International Airport in Yukon.
l d=0&commentsort=0&mode=thread&cid=2281846
See my report on their forced landing and authorities' actions:
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=21548&thresho
This is an old article, but still very true today. In hindsight, America does things wrong, but overwhelmingly what they do is good. When was the last time you heard someone say thank you?
.. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.
... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.
... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.
.. with the year less than half-over... has taken it all and nobody...but nobody... has helped.
"The Americans" - Original Script
"LET'S BE PERSONAL" Broadcast June 5, 1973 CFRB, Toronto, Ontario
Topic: "The Americans"
The United States dollar took another pounding on German, French and British exchanges this morning, hitting the lowest point ever known in West Germany. It has declined there by 41% since 1971 and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.
As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.
They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.
The Marshall Plan
I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.
Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times
When the Americans get out of this bind
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.
Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.
I hope Canada is not one of these. But there are many smug, self-righteous Canadians. And finally, the American Red Cross was told at its 48th Annual meeting in New Orleans this morning that it was broke.
This year's disasters
ORIGINAL SCRIPT AND AUDIO
COURTESY STANDARD BROADCASTING CORPORATION LTD.
(c) 1973 BY GORDON SINCLAIR
PUBLISHED BY STAR QUALITY MUSIC (SOCAN)
A DIVISION OF UNIDISC MUSIC INC.
578 HYMUS BOULEVARD
POINTE-CLAIRE, QUEBEC,
CANADA, H9R 4T2
I am watching CNN and at this moment (11PM GMT), Kabul seems to be under some sort of bombing. They say that multiple explosions have been heard over the city. The images show heavy fire.
Will continue watching and updating if they say anything new.
I agree with others that Slashdot was great today. The focus on the disasters was admirable, and the information was high quality. Extra kudos to the posters who offered high quality links when it seemed that the world was slashdotted.
That said, I found that Slashdot was not the right source for news today. The news I got here was delayed (the stories) or hard to sift through (the posts). I found great fringe material (red cross info, missing persons sites, etc) and lots of mirrored material (thanks to all!) but it was diluted by speculation, rumor, flames and unchecked emotion. On the plus side, there was also support, prayers and many thoughtful discussions. Again, this diluted the news for better or for worse.
Instead, I found ananova to be the best site on the net today, with a simple, chronological list of relevent wire reports: ananova.com topic focus.
But I suspect I will find Slashdot to be the best site on the net for reflection over the next week or so.
Note, that this isn't criticism, but observation. Slashdot is more a community than a news source. This was an interesting mini-revelation for me today. Maybe Slashdot needs a QuickNews feature which lets stories go up faster (and get pulled down faster when proved inaccurate or inappropriate). I think a community run, up-to-the-minute news source would be valuable. Just some thoughts...
CNN/NBC/MSNBC has a report which states Kabul, Afghanistan has been bombed (explosions).
MSNBC is reporting apparent missile explosions near the airport in Kabul, Afghanistan. The US could already be retaliating!
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
I put this up on my college computer so it should take the traffic well... Here
Here in the UK I'm hearing reports that missiles are falling in Kabul.
Two wrongs don't make a right. The civilians of Afghanistan deserve it no more than the civilians of New York.
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
Another building just collapsed due to the explosion and pressure.
I still wonder if anyone *gets it* anymore from a suggestion to the parallels to the bombing of Pearl Harbor.
This is an instance where war or its declaration has been brought to American soil.
The main difference is the Japanese had the brass cajones to at least explain why they felt it was necessary (i.e. on what grounds).
These "Anonymous Cowards" currently are of the "If you don't know we aren't going to tell you" mindset.
That does not work, because if you are going to do battle (or are prepared) you damn well better be able to *explain* it to the rest of the world for they may get involved if the want to or not.
I can gurantee you if this is from a "violent cell/faction" where not all of the nations people agree with that faction...they just might "deliver them to our doorstep" for that swift justice.
If not, another similar faction may just give them up, get the hell away and pray whatever is done does not take them with it.
Whoever it is, IS an AC... (sorry for the conclusion) because if you have the BRASS ONES to "taunt the tiger" you f*cking better be able to take him on or run like hell where you will never be found.
IMO.
Moose
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
ha ha ha, I am so funny.
kabul is burning down...what the fuck is going on?!
________________________________________________
and they're sure about their target, then this better not be a puny fucking response.
I'm watching WB33 for north-texas and apparently there are explosions going off in the city of Kabul. Does anyone have any more information regarding this? Who is doing the attacks?
--
MrJag (sorry I didn't have the time to make an account) agheno@nospam.yahoo.com
There are reports and vidoe in the news channels about missle attacks on Afganistan right now....
--mark
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible, make violent revolution inevitable" - JFK
The number of lives lost in this heinous act makes me sick. But one of the problems that will come up in the next few weeks is the monetary amount of damage. Not only did someone lose the amount of money for the lease on the building (some $3 billion I read), but much money will be spent on cleaning up the three inches of ash covering lower manhattan. Plus, if it is some mid-east country or terrorist organization responsible, then those countries may not send us oil when we launch our retaliation.
If Osama bin Laden is responsible for these actions, which seems most likely, then we should not only hunt him down for the sake of properly resolving this conflict, but we should seize his assetts (somewhere in the billions of dollars) and use them to partially rebuild what we have lost. We can never regain what we have lost today.
God bless the victims and their families
God bless America
We started bombing kabul in Afganistan. Hells yeah!!!!
It's in the german news just right now as well...
Well, what you expect from a Texan?
+++ath0
My building is about 4 or 5 blocks away, I got up about 9ish to go
get a coffee and noticed that the air was full of papers, like a ticker tape
parade, then i saw that one of the wtc towers was on fire. I asked some guys in
another office what happened, they said that they had heard that a plane hit it.
A this point we were thinking small plane, accident. While we were
watching, all of the sudden we heard the second one and could see it really
low doing a steep turn. Then we watched it fly right into the second tower. At
that point it was obvious that this was not an accident. I thought, i'm on the
37th floor of one of the buildings cloest to the water, i'm getting the fuck out
of here. Grabbed my stuff went to the elevator. The first one was packed so
i took the stairs. When I got out of the building, i figured that I wanted to
get off the island. I usually take the ferry, but the one i catch is too close
to the wtc so I took the wall street one from the east side of the island. I
didn't care where it was going as long as it was New Jersey. I was pretty early
so i didn't have to wait too long. As my ferry was going up the Hudson beside
the wtc the first tower collapsed, it filled the whole downtown area with thick
black smoke about 100 ft high. I caught a train from Hoboken and got 3/4's of
the way home and the power failed. So i got
off and walked until i found a pay phone, cell phones pretty much didn't work. Called my wife and she
came and picked me up. We gave some other people rides home as well.
In all it was kind of exciting, very unreal and very horrible. I'm sure that the
horror of the whole thing will come out in the next few days.
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
Hmmm... Someone is making loud noices in Afghanistan.
I hope it's not the US, and if it is, I hope they have a very good reason for it.
Was just listening to Swedish radio...
It's 11pm, do you know what your deamons are up to?
The story below seems to have maxed out at 2047 comments...
Time for all you script kiddies to prove yourself yousfull. When the country the supported The terrorist that did this is discovered I suggest, no I task you, to assault of there systems. We need to teach the world that all of us, not just our military, will retalliate in any way we can.
The response will be immediate. The American leader uses a hotline to communicate to the French Marshal, who launches self-propelled bombs with "tongues of fire" against the aggressor. In this war some of the bombs will hit New York and some will be diverted. The bomb referred to here will be prematurely detonated along the flightpath, saving the city. Many human lives will be spent when planes flying around the bomb, trying to divert or destroy it, are blown up.
This off the evening news: there are explosions and fires on the perimeter of the city of Kabul in Afghanistan. Is this the beginning of retaliation for the real or imagined perpetrators?
----- Trapped in time. Surrounded by evil. Low on gas. --Army of Darkness
They also said that no commercial ship were being allowed into the harbour at this time
may you run like a vicuna
Apparently someone is now bombing Kabul, Afghanistan with incendiaries. Hopefully, this is not the U.S., but it haven't seen any confirmation either way yet.
You were eaten by a grue.
From CNN:
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
ananova are sending emails straight off the wire as news comes in...
We offer our sincerest sympathy from Australia
Kabul is already being attacked by US cruise missiles as I write this. YOU MORONS DESERVE EVERYTHING YOU GET!
CNN is reporting attacks against Kabul, Afganistan.
Source of attacks seem to be unknown.
Eerie.
I love the smell of Karma in the morning
I can hear Joe Lieberman now, blaming companies like Microsoft for publishing violent computer games.
I can state categorically that my son was
at school all day and had nothing to do with all
this.
Seriously, who is this Son of Timothy group?
For those interested, here's the official statement from the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints:
"In this hour of sorrow, the First Presidency of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints expresses profound sympathy to those whose loved ones, friends and associates were lost or injured in today's senseless acts of violence. We offer our prayers in behalf of the innocent victims of these vicious attacks. We ask our Heavenly Father to guide President Bush and his advisors as they respond to these devastating incidents.
"We join with others in prayers that the Savior's peace and love will comfort and guide us all through this difficult time.
"The resources of the Church will be made available to any relief agency requesting assistance."
Missionaries in NY and DC are reported to be fine. In addition, "Any appropriate humanitarian response is still under consideration, pending further assessment of needs."
More available at:F F.html
http://www.lds.org/media/article/0,5422,116-6250,
Here's the link:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
The explosions in Kabul have apparently ceased for the time being. No officials have been able to confirm who is responsible. The burning building is apparently an ammunition dump. No URL links available to the story yet.
CNN speculates that it is possible that the fighting could actually be infighting within afghanistan, and this may be civil infighting. No one has been able to pinpoint the missile's origin.
I used to have a cool sig, back when I cared
On a slight side note, this does the Palestinians no good at all. If they really wanted sympathy and to affect US policy, they should have made a movie set on the West Bank, with everyday life as a backdrop My God! How do you know it was the palestinians! You have no right to sya anything until the facts come in. For all you know it could be IRA for Christsakes!
should be exported.
From CNN:
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
There's no confirmation of who's firing the missiles. The city of Kabul is in a state of civil war right now, and it *could* be part of that civil war. However, it is still strange, and this kind of intense attack is not typical of this war. Still, they could be opportunists taking advantage of the confusion generated by all this to do their own attack. Still too early to tell either way.
"Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
I put this up on my college computer so it should take the traffic well... Here
Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror what I found on www.spack.nu/wtc/ to be at www.current.nu sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
all said, more is not known
http://remember.worldatwar.org has started a rememberance campaign to mourn today's victims. What you can do: include thumbnail ribbon images on your site, replace your ad banners with special commemorative banner.
No more camera ads for today, if no one else has gotten that yet.
y s11.htm
http://www.x10.com/home/offer.cgi?!TT11,../techto
I just had to explain to my son earlier today what today's events are about and did not realize the somewhat sage things I said until just now.
Remember that in Pearl Harbor there was a *clear objective and "visible" enemy*.
WWI, WWII, were the same.
Desert storm/shield was quoted by Bush Sr as "not going to be another Viet-nam" for the simple reason that if you go in shooting and stay w/o a reason...you've lost already.
Is this the same?
This has elements of Perl Harbor because it has been brought to our soil, but the elements of Viet-nam are the "enemy" has yet to show himself...That *scares* the hell out of me, and makes me even angrier.
Moose.
Have you read the moderator guidelines? Well, have you, PUNK? (and I want a Karma: Gnarly option)
Kabul, the capitol of Afghanistan just experience some explosions about 15 minutes ago (it's all over CNN), they're speculating right now about whether it could be a US retaliation or not.
Help find a cure for cancer!
From MSNBC
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
It might not be a coincidence. Read through that thread. The guy posts on the 4th that he willbe leaving in 7 days and not returning. 4 + 7 = 11th. Could this have been one of the suicide pilots?? This is scary.
"Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
Anyone notice that there were no psychics predicting this diaster
Great logic.
"Nobody can prove the negative, but because you DIDN'T predict something that happened, you're a fraud."
Oh, the irony!
I'm not really sure what the answer to all this is, but historically, whenever a group has made attacks on American targets, if it has been small attacks, ie, the USS Cole, Americans get angry for a very short time then for the most part it's forgotten. However,whenever someone has been able to make the entire country angry as a group, then very bad things happen to the percieved group/nation behind it. Things are going to get real ugly in a very short time.
Anybody knows more about this? Is it the US.
I was watching TV News when the continuous repetition of the twin towers falling switched to images of missiles in the night and an explosion (very confuse), and the reporter said that those were images from Afghanistan, but it was unclear what was happening. More news about it anyone?
BBC news said the US had DENIED the attacks.
Offtopic, Inflammatory, Inappropriate, Illegal, or Offensive comments might be moderated up.
Or at least there was a big explosion in Kabul. CNN's got some shots on now.
"On the Internet, everyone is an equal until they prove themselves to be a moron." - Emmanuel Goldstein
Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror what I found on www.spack.nu/wtc/ to be at www.current.nu sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
'An eye for an eye leaves the whole world blind.'
M.K. Ghandi
This following is only a sig.
If you voted for Nader, THIS IS ALL YOUR FAULT!!
Hmm.. sounds unlikely to me that a conspiricy(spelling?) kept secret from the entire world was announced on a nostradamus ng..
Newsgroups: alt.prophecies.nostradamus
Date: 2001-09-04 12:40:28 PST
Wait 7 days, and then maybe I'll answer this post. You see, I am going away
in seven days, and you will not hear from me again.
Wow.
First and foremost, my heart goes out to everyone personally affected by this tragedy. It's a terrible attack on the entire "free world".
Probably redundant, but I am struck by the reality check. I manage a small team of talented programmers, working 60-100 hours a week. I was pondering how to increase our effeciency the other day as we race toward our deadline, and I thought about throwing my two cents in the other day in the management and quality article. Then I fall asleep for a (long) while after a 36-hour coding binge, and I wake up to this.
There's more to life than deadlines and code.
Wow...
-sd
I hate to bring this to light, as the rush of people going to get gas will make it worse, but:
The station I get gas at, 70 miles north of Atlanta was selling unleaded at $1.15 this morning.
As of 6pm,EST, unleaded is now $1.45.
Let the gouging begin.
Letus know how YOUR gas prices are being affected folks...
Kabul, the capital of Afghanistan, has been bombed by what the CNN reporter believes to be cruise missiles.
I hope the US had nothing to do with this.
Apparently an official statement was issued, the US is denying responsibility for the bombings.
I heard someone mention Nostradamus, but I didn't put much stock into it.... although this is a scary link:
http://www.dreamscape.com/morgana/nosproph.htm
Bunch of pictures of what is left.[http://www.scottrossi.com/wtc/]
I knew it would be bad, but a picture is definately worth a thousand words.
-Frijoles-
I am just wondering what kind of action it would take to bring the internet down by terrorists ?
What is the most resilient mode of communication for the average person in Washington D.C. or NY in case of an attack ? Telephone or internet ?
http://www.asu.net/wtc/wtc56.jpg
For the gruesome in you.
:(
The US - Mexico border was closed for awhile this morning, but is currently open under tight security. The delay to get over the border has been running more than 2 hours since the re-opening.
r ie s/news-95631020010911-080959.html
http://www.thesandiegochannel.com/sand/news/sto
Maybe it is Bin Ladin who is attacking Afghanistan and attacked NYC and DC. Maybe He is trying to take over that country and start his "world domination". Yes I know it sound so cliche but you never now. He does want to create a solid muslim state so this might be the beginning of that process. I will most likely be marked as a troll but I can not do anything about that.
The Sydney Morning Herald is carrying the story
*** I am the real stylewagon
Geez its not so bad. I imagine a guy on the second plane:
"Geez, we are going straight to the towers. Ops, what's there on the top of the tower? Its smoke! My God we are really going to hit it."
..the last thoughts before the crash:
"That's it we're hitting it. Hitting the NY trade towers! Can you believe the consequences? The NY towers down? Is this possible? This is going to explode in the minds of people worldwide. Nor I nor anybody would ever imagine that. And I won't live to see it. But its really happening."
So it happened.
Just saw on CCN that offically the US is denying that the bombing in Kabul is theirs, and they are attributing it officially to the civil war.
"Two things are infinite: the universe, and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first one." - Albert Einstein
CNN is reporting that the White House has denied any US involvement in the Kabul bombings and that its likely part of the ongoing civil war in Afghanistan.
CNN has just released a Statement by a senior US Military offical that the US is not involved in any attack in Afghanistan. Personal note: I don't think even GWB is that crazy.
CNN just reported that the attacks are definitely not from a U.S. source. The white house press secretary passed on word regarding that. That leaves civil war fighting, or possible attacks from a third party (much less likely).
Just in ...
The White house denies ordering the attack in Kabul, Afghanistan.
Searching on Google for "twin towers" I came across the following, amazing link: http://www.playlouder.com/feature/515kingsofconven ience/. Scroll down to the part about "episode two." In light of today's events, simply amazing.
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
i think that's a shite idea
Hairbrained idea, mod up if you think it's good (please). Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror some of what I found, sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
CNN is claiming that this is an Afghanistan civil war battle, and not a USA attack.
God, I hope so. For the US to respond in force in less than 12 hours would practically imply that someone giving orders knew about the trade center attacks before they happened.
Anyone have any other news of this. Here are two links reporting this. http://news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,284159 8%255E1702,00.html
http://www.thecouriermail.news.com.au/common/story _page/0,5936,2841598%255E1702,00.html
Kabul City Map Link
http://www.afghan-politics.org/Reference/Maps/kabu l_city_map.htm
.. is the wtca.org web cam: "Live Picture from WTCA Headquarters on the 77th Floor of the New York WTC" .. the page doesn't even load - "The remote host or network may be down.". Says it all really.
What's realy haunting is that the google cache of the page has some javascript that displays the local current date/time.
Australia is thinking of you guys, and as a member of the Intell community, I'll try my damndest to do what I can to assist.
An x-10 ad window popped up on my screen, with the message -
"We have suspended our service out of sympathy to the victims and families of this National tragedy. Our heartfelt thoughts and prayers go out to them.
We have either feel hopeless or powerless or we can take action. (Most of us will do all 3!) Make the call or click on the links to find your local support center."
Below it has some links to the Red Cross and blood donation information.
The ad is at http://ads.x10.com/all/suspend.htm
http://www.ual.com/Response/PressReleases/0,11641, -1__1760_1,00.html
The 2 American planes hit the towers.
United 93 hit the ground in PA.
No one has announced the location of 175.
Images of the Pentagon show NO debris that looks plane related. If it were 175, why hasn't that been announced?
It's Guttermouth's song, not mine. Besides, you'll notice they list a whole bunch of things, not necessarily connected to each other.
I stated that my point was "who is the asshole?" et cetera. To clarify: I am commenting on the fact that I am watching everybody lay the blame on each other here, at school, on the news -- the people laying the blame do so because they think they know who the "asshole" is, yet they're being assholes themselve.
Please read comments carefully. Don't assume that because I quote something I believe it. If someone said, "Never in my life... I would have voted for Bush." If you only saw the "I would have voted for Bush" part, and not the first part, you would have completely missed the point the person was making, just because you didn't take the time to read it fully.
[To say nothing of my personal feelings!] I firmly disapprove of prejudice and stereotyping and I can't stand people who do it. Don't assume I stereotype unless you know for a fact that I do. It's your kinds of comment that deserve "-1, Troll".
"Moderations: Troll=2"
Let me explain my point in more obvious terms, since it is apparent you did not take the time to read carefully.
(This would make so-and-so an asshole of immense proportions.)
But wouldn't those laying undue blame be assholes themselves then?
Just like in the song, people are stereotyping. I have seen more "Bomb the Middle East" posts than I can count. <SARCASM>So I guess everyone in the Middle East deserves to die, eh...</SARCASM>
Hah. Now I know why experienced slashdot users sometimes write sarcasm in all caps; otherwise the triggerhappy moderators might not see it.
--TheOrangeSquid Is it any wonder things seem so awry? We swim in a sea of confusion and don't have to think to survive
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right& th=54ab4d241c34e0cc&seekm=3b8fd177%40monitor.lanse t.com#link1
Below is the google thread:
He predicts the exact day!! He says he would not be around after!!! He may be a suicider!!
From: Xinoehpoel (tesnal@psl.moc)
Subject: Re: 911
Newsgroups: alt.prophecies.nostradamus
View this article only
Date: 2001-09-04 12:40:28 PST
Wait 7 days, and then maybe I'll answer this post. You see, I am going away
in seven days, and you will not hear from me again.
X
The folks at SiliconValley.com have assembled a very thorough Web log covering today's ugly events. Lot's of first hand accounts, pointers to an assortment of media coverage, even a refer to Jon Katz's piece.
http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11
That link again: http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11
Carousel is a lie!
Acording to swedish state radios reporter in Washington DC. Whitehouse oficial denied bombs in Kabul
I've heard radio reports that an attack is under way in Afghanistan, though details are sketchy. Also, there are rumours that our Naval assets in the area have been given the greenlight to attack.
But who's fighting on the ground? We don't have but a couple thousand marines, tops, that could be there by now.
They said on the radio that there was fighting on a front 50 miles outside of Kabul. The closet border is Pakistan, or is it some sort of civil uprising?
Who knows!?
Wow. Here amidst the racks, with servers humming, it's easy to forget that radio exists when all you can get is static.
No TV, no Radio; Many sites sluggish, but Slashdot is holding up and being informative.
I think I'll go high-tech, thanks all the same.
Slashdot: Everything in Moderation, including Moderation itself.
I was too lazy to unsubscribe for months from their mailing-SPAM-list. But i immediately did after receiving this letter.
If you want to tell them a word or two, you can reach them at helpdesk@coffeecup.com.
CNN article
Interesting facts:
Previously, Lewin worked at IBM's research laboratory in Haifa, Israel, where he was a full-time research fellow and project leader while simultaneously completing two undergraduate degrees at the Technion.
Born in Denver, Colorado, and raised in Jerusalem, Lewin is an officer in the Israel Defense Forces, having served in the country's military for more than four years.
He is survived by his wife and two sons.
Poor kids...
Shocking images from Reuters. In light of this kind of behavior, I think we should really start to reassess out relationship with the Palestinian people. It is now clear that our only allies in the Mid-East are the Israelis, who, in stark contrast, announced a national day of mourning. The flags over the Israeli parliament are lowered. I'd really like to see if the Palestinians, Lebanese or Syrians have made the same gesture.
rm -rf /bin/laden
so they're not bombing afghanistan? YEAH RiGHT! iT'S A GOVERNMENT CONSPiRACY!!!!11111 i saw da b0mb1n' on mah tv, we're k1ck1n sum maj0r ass
Please mod the parent post up. It has very useful information for those of us without access to a TV or radio right now.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
I've setup a site at www.knouf.com for people to post information about Caltech students, faculty, and staff involved in today's terrorist attacks.
Nick Knouf
the plane that went down in PA had a woman onboard who locked herself in the bathroom with her cellular phone - she was telling authorities about the hijacking when the plane crashed and killed her - that is the only way the authorities knew for sure what plane went down in PA so quickly, she gave her flight number
Who'd have thunk it? It's true what they say about using your cell phone while in flight..
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb." "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning."
-Nostradamus 1654
I wish i was making this up
Slashdot Hypocrisy at work?
available at http://wtc.ravidew.net/ .. at this time I am still uploading files
It's a report that basically says that lots of incoming missiles are raining on the Afghanistan capital.
Any word if this is our retaliation?
"Avast! Prepare for the rodgering!" THWACK! "Arrr.. me nards.."
If, like me, you can't give blood for whatever reason, you can donate to the American Red Cross of Greater New York here.
Gerv
Get this info in Russian from HERE and use Babel, or read this:
----
all last information about the tragedy in THE USA .
Information constantly is renewed
nformatsiya about the tragic events in THE USA, arranged/located in this article, constantly it is renewed.
Fresh information is isolated with medium boldface type .
According to the communication/report to TV broadcasting company SI-N- N, which leads straight/direct reporting from kabul, in the Afghan capital several powerful explosions were heard . In several places of city the fires arose. Correspondent SI-N- N reports that the explosions in kabul " greatly resemble the explosions of the cruise missiles, which it observed two ago in Yugoslavia ".
According to the preliminary data, one of the explosions occurred in the place, where in kabul large fuel depot is located. In the sky above the city, reports SI-N- N with the reference to the eyewitnesses, were noticed several cruise missiles.
According to the data of urban authorities, in that become on Tuesday the object of the most destructive in the history OF THE USA attack of terrorists the complex of the center of international trade, which was being considered one of the main sights of the largest city OF THE USA, it worked to 50 thousand people, skyscraper- twins assumed/took daily higher 10 thousand visitors " this- nightmare it is worse/worst, which could happen ", he said in the interview, hardly holding in control tears, the mayor of New York Rudolf Dzhulianni.
According to the data of the special services OF THE USA, the terrorist acts, carried out on Tuesday in Washington and New York, organized the international terrorist Of usama Ben Laden . On this reported the TV broadcasting company " Fox ".
As a result of today's teraktov, when both towers of world commercial center in New York were brought down, were injured not less than 2100 people, of them about 600 with the heavy injuries were delivered into the hospitals. On this reported the mayor of New York Rudolf Dzhuliani, transfers BY CHNN. the number of those been killed as before unknown and it will be named only into the medium or even on Thursday. At the same time, according to the data of spasateley, a quantity of victims still can grow considerably - according to the preliminary data, at the moment/torque terakta in the towers of world commercial center were located not less than 40 000 people.
As a result of terakta in the building of the Pentagon, supposedly, perished about 100 people. The aircraft of vrezalsya into the compartments/rooms, where were arranged/located two departments of the Pentagon for fight with the terrorism.
As a result of fire the 40- storeyed building, which entered into the complex of world commercial center in New York, collapsed. The house, which is building the number of 7 complexes, obtained damages and it inflamed after caving as a result of terakta of two 110- storeyed skyscrapers. Somewhat previously collapsed the building of smaller height - number 6, also entered into complex. In all into the complex of world commercial center in New York entered 7 buildings, including two 110- storeyed skyscrapers.
All commercial flights of the aircraft above the territory OF THE USA are stopped at least to noon of medium on the local time " not some aircraft to this time it will take off ", stated director on the communications of the White House Of keren of Hugh meanwhile approximately 500 voyages, which were being sent to the USA because of the boundary were perenapravleny into the Canadian airports
CHNN reported the last data about the numbers of the voyages, by which had to fly the aircraft seized by terrorists: the voyage of 11 companies " Amer. Airlines " Boston-Los- Angeles, the voyage of 77 companies " Amer. Airlines " of Washington (airport Dallesa)-Los- Angeles, the voyage of 93 companies " United Airlines " Newark-San- Francisco, the voyage of 175 companies " United Airlines " Boston-Los- Angeles.
The ministry of defense OF THE USA declared the highest degree of anxiety - " readiness for the war ", reports CHNN. it is declared general mobilization. Are put into operation the alternate command posts of the army OF THE USA sky above America closed, PVO l - AIR DEFENSEm OF THE USA monitors entire territory of the country from the command center in the state of Colorado.
The President OF THE USA George Bush could not rapidly return to Washington from Florida and he stated on the military base in the state of Louisiana that all armed forces to THE USA and abroad were given to the increased combat readiness. According to him, " attack underwent democracy itself and democracy will be protected ". To 21:30 on Moscow time the President OF THE USA could return to the capital, but it does not communicate about his location.
As reports RIA of " news " , the special session of the permanent council of North Atlantic agreement will be assembled in the nearest hours in the staff office OF NATO in Brussels.
According to the deputy chairman of senate committee on reconnaissance Richard Shelbi, American special services government organizations obtained " absolutely no information " about prepared teraktakh, reports RIA of " news " .
TV -6 reports that one of the aircraft, which flew from Moscow to THE USA, was as other international voyages, perenapravlen into Canada and villages. Russia forbade the departure of all aircraft, which follow in THE USA.
About 9 hundred in the evening on Moscow time the representative of Russian federation in THE UNITED NATIONS Sergey Lavrov reported that, according to his data, among the colleagues of official Russian representations in New York and Washington and the members of their families there are no been killed. The opening of the current 56-1 session of the general assembly OF UNITED NATIONS outlined for Tuesday is abolished.
Information more lately entered, that one additional driven away passenger aircraft " Boeing-747 " approaches Washington. As reported CHNN, it was biased/beaten BY VVS OF THE USA in all, according to the data of TV broadcasting company NYUK, in THE USA were seized 11 (eleven) passenger aircraft. Location 4 of them is unknown Until now.
One additional communication/report entered 18 hours 50 minutes: near the large American city Pittsburgh fell " Boeing ", which belonged " to United Airlines ". On its board/edge it was 81 people. Broke one additional aircraft in the Washington airport Dulles, on his board/edge it was 54 people. It communicates also that in the last hours in THE USA occurred 8 (eight) avikatastrof.
It communicated that one additional aircraft, which turned above Washington, was constrained by USAF l - United States Air forcem land and collapsed not far from the residence of the President OF THE USA into the camp -Devide (state of Maryland). Late officials refuted this information.
A quantity of victims cannot be even assumed, but out of any doubt, it is enormous. Perished pilot- suicide and the passengers of three aircraft (according to the preliminary data, only in one of the aircraft it was located 160 people). Majorities of 50 000 TSMT were already at their work sites at the moment of attack. TV -6 reports that people jumped out from the burning buildings of the center of international trade. There were at the places and the colleagues of American military department. Furthermore, precisely, on the upper levels of two New York towers are located running plates completely popular among the tourists.
According to the last estimations/evaluations, perished not less than 50 thousand people. American cities are panic-stricken. Is declared state of emergency in the largest cities OF THE USA - in New York, Washington, San Francisco, Los Angeles. Thousands of victims enter into the hospitals of New York and Washington.
Sky-TV reported that the responsibility for these terakty took upon itself the democratic Front of the release of Palestine, but this late communication/report was disproved by officials DFOP. The leader of the Palestinian autonomy of yasir Arafat also condemned the terrorist acts in THE USA also about his nonparticipation they stated and the leaders of motions " khamas " and " Islamic dzhikhad ". According to the data OF CHNN, in the territory of Palestinian autonomy it passes a kind of the celebration, which passes into the the people of gulyaniya. In East Jerusalem is conducted the demonstration of several ten Arabs, who praise Usamu Bean Ladena.
According to last data, terakty were condemned " main suspected " - by Afghan fundamentalistskim motion " taliban ". this statement made the ambassador of talibov to Pakistan. According to the information CHNN, taliby also stated that Usama Bean Laden was not participating to these teraktam. According to them, it simply does not have this technical capability.
The President Vladimir Putin expressed the condolence of the people OF THE USA it was conducted special communication/report with the power ministers. About 9 hours of msk the President RF appeared on the television and brought on behalf of the people of Russia his condolences to American people. The Minister/Secretary of Defense RF Sergey Ivanov made statement, that the servicemen of Russia were ready to render assistance OF THE USA in connection with teraktami in the American cities.
http://dtum.livejournal.com
The airport here, itself, is very small... The runway is incredibly long, due to being a US Air Force base, which it was till '92.
From what I heard, only 4 of the flights actually landed here (in Goose Bay).
around 20 were in St. John's though.
Before (taken 5 months ago):2 5MrRHyhTMIA
2 864qZXvgWteKm
http://community.webshots.com/photo/8916386/89165
After (sept 11th, around 1:00pm):
http://community.webshots.com/photo/21192612/2119
Both photos taken by me
You're right (BBC reporting that too).
KNEE_JERK_REACTION_MODE==FALSE
Hope that holds true for Dubbyah too..
You can look at this (about Afghan civil war) for more details on what is going on there recently.
"Oops, I always forget the purpose of competition is to divide people into winners and losers." - Hobbes
"This looks like the signature of Osama bin Laden," said Sen. Orrin Hatch, R-Utah, who had been briefed by high-level government officials on the attacks. "We're going to find out who did this and we're going after the bastards."
Sen. John Kerry, D-Massachusetts, agreed."I have no doubt in my mind it's Osama bin Laden," he told CNN. "It's very much in keeping with the threats he has made."
Bush: "Make no mistake, The United States will hunt down and punish those responsible for these cowardly acts"
Not a significant amount of damage.
i just got a report that texas is selling gas for $8/gallon, OPEC raised their prices to $3/barrel, and we are three and four cars deep up here in Wisconsin at the gas station. Anyone that can give truth to these rumours?
________________________________________________
Looks like your post was a knee jerk reaction.
Too bad.
Some video that wasn't on the news [at least when I got it] and some pics that look to be from someone's digital camera nearby.
and I'm still trying to collect more videos and pics...
Nothing to see here
I recieved some pictures from a friend and they are the most detailed and clear that I've seen so far so I added them onto my site:
http://www.hiris.com/nycpics.htm
The thing that amazes me is the fact that Palestinians aren't scared out of their mind as they celebrate. They're acting as if they've "defated" the United States, while all it's really done is cause the entire population to turn red with rage against them. Whereas Pearl Harbor may have given the Japanese a reason to celebrate a potential victory over the U.S. power, our military is as strong tonight as it was this morning. We have the big guns, so they're basically going to be fucked in the end if the higher up's find out their country was involved.
I know that if I were in their place, even if I wanted to celebrate, I'd do it privately. Also, if I realized my country's population were celebrating in the streets and being filmed on international TV, I'd get the hell out of the country before the bombs started falling.
--
stupid, but weird
--- sig moved for great justice.
Importantly -- remember, blood is in demand. The Red Cross' site is mobbed
I'm worried that might be true in more than one way.
The shareholder is always right.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=3b9
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
What hath God wrought?
- 'nuff said
What the HECK is wrong with these people! I have two gas stations near my house....one is $1.59 a gallon and another is $4.99 a gallon! The one with $1.59 a gallon has a line a block long! Oil has been 30 dollars a barrel before....why are thes gas stations hiking the price???
Gorkman
very old. This was posted in the morning.
Where were you.... smoking a joint?
Thanks and have a LSD-induced weekend.
Here's what the dihard SlashDot'ers NEED to do (if you agree mod this up!)
I am about to mirror some of what I found, sometime somewhere soon, TBA.... I hope we can band together to pull off a media spread fast and informative.
Comment on Trademarks and Copywrights: Screw them, this is too important. DO NOT white out sources, GIVE FULL CREDIT IF YOU CAN!!! But, we want the news spread clear and fast, with as much detail as we can. So, give credit, and if they don't make the credits for the photos or media clear enough in the content, it's THIER FAULT for not taking credit... Let's just mirror shit so we don't choke down the major news sites and the best photos we can find.
PS: Send donations to EFF, I'm going to need them if it works......
I just wanted to say that today, while at school, teachers were constantly trying to load populair websites (which were of course dead). Slashdot, which I immedately mentioned, loaded up instantly and provided very accurate information. Moderation and user comments work VERY well in situations such as this: you get reports from people who actually see the attacks, valid reports get modded up, etc. great job.
Maybe some populair sites will see this and will add such abilities? I love reading comments from people who saw it. The descriptions from a real person form a more vivid image in my mind then any picture or video has.
From MSNBC:
Kindness, bravery amid the horror
Internet used to rally relief work, offer housing and help
Sept 11 -- In the midst of terror and tragedy, charity fought back across America -- and across the Internet. Tales of thousands of small heroes are emerging, from a New York City bus driver who sped people to safety amid falling debris to a McDonald's manager near ground zero who kept his store open to give rescue workers water. But the kindness has spread far and wide outside New York and Washington D.C. Long lines outside blood donor agencies started forming spontaneously Tuesday morning. And around the country, homeowners near airports are offering free housing to stranded travelers through Internet message boards.
HUNDREDS OF STORIES of spontaneous acts of kindness are emerging. As always, horrendous acts of hate have a way of bringing out strong acts of love.
When Maria Trotta, who was stuck in a subway under the trade center for 45 minutes, finally emerged from the smoke-filled subway, the smoke was even worse above ground. But instead of running home, she took care of a woman who had asthma.
"I went looking for a mask for her, but couldn't find any, but the only thing I could find was a pair of (fortunately clean) athletic socks," Trotta said.
She guided her several blocks, finally leaving her in the care of EMTs at a rescue station. Only then did she walk across Manhattan Bridge back home to Brooklyn to meet her husband. "I never got her name."
Jay Lacny was on a bus that sped away from the World Trade Center just moments after the second plane hit. He was one of thousands who are currently sharing stories describing how lucky they are to be alive. He was with a crowd that was standing in the street watching the fire in the first tower when the second plane hit the other building.
"We then literally ran for our lives with debris crashing all around us," he said. "A bus pulled up a couple of blocks away and everyone rushed on and then sped us to safety a mile away. The driver and all of us were scared for our lives, but did nothing out of the ordinary. I'm sure that many others have contributed greatly and risked their lives."
Much of the real heroism came from fire and police workers at the rescue scene. A New York City police officer who declined to share his name was carrying victims out of Five World Trade Center when it collapsed.
"The fire department were getting people out from the rubble and we [the police officers] were carrying them out," he said. "I carried some out and was going back in to get more, but they wouldn't let me back in. They said the structure was unstable. That's when the second tower collapsed." He said many victims were still inside, and several were still alive after the collapse -- and too stunned to yell for help.
"(People) were dazed and shocked. It was surreal. I've never seen anything remotely like it. There just are no words to describe it," he said.
Across New York, thousands of volunteers pitched in. Store owners opened their doors and gave away flashlights, water, food or anything else that would help rescue workers or victims forced to walk home to Brooklyn, Queens, New Jersey or elsewhere once public transportation was shut down. A Duane Reade pharmacy gave out free water, snacks and first aid supplies. A Mrs. Fields Cookies gave away all its food.
Others helped by offering free rides to victims trying to get home.
"A lot of my neighbors here in Cobble Hill were driving around and organizing car pools to bring the refugees to the Atlantic Avenue train station and other places where they could catch a train," said Gian Trotta. "And I saw some kids from the projects at Red Hook walking up to give blood at Long Island College Hospital."
Blood donors who showed up at hospitals were eager to help out the same way.
"At 11a.m. today, I could not stand watching the TV any longer and I told the people in my office that I was walking over to NYU Medical Center to give blood," said Joshua Glantz. "Six people followed me and we gathered more people on the 20-minute walk. It was depressing but also heartening to see people turn in their tracks to join our group. When we got to the hospital, we found an eight-hour wait to give blood."
Across the Hudson River in New Jersey, blood donor lines wound around Hackensack Medical Center, too -- in fact, the hospital was so flooded with donors that a remote donor station was in the works at a nearby church in Wood-Ridge, N.J.
Outside the city, thousands of Netizens began to hunt for ways to help during the crisis. Soon after word came that all flights at U.S. airports had been grounded, offers flooded in for free housing for the night.
"We are 30 minutes from Salt Lake Airport," Greg Smith wrote to a Princeton University alumni newsletter. "Plenty of room for stranded travelers and we can do an airport run to pick anyone up."
Graham Doran made the same offer for folks in San Francisco: "Plenty of couch space. Already picked up one guest, can handle a couple of more," Doran said.
Only Women Bleed (Sex, Sharia remix)
Here in San Diego, CA, the US-Mexico border is open, but it is on Level 1 security (the highest level, which means you will get searched). Supposedly, officials are guessing it will take at least 3 hours to cross the border, possibly longer. It won't be fun tonight if you have to cross the border...
Doh!
My next trip to the US will be on the 9th
of January 2002 - premeeting of USENIX 2002.
For Your Convenience - flight numbers will
be published when available.
We Will Not Step Down Due To This.
Toon Moene - mailto:toon@moene.indiv.nluug.nl - phoneto: +31 346 214290
Saturnushof 14, 3738 XG Maartensdijk, The Netherlands
Maintainer, GNU Fortran 77: http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/g77_news.html
Join GNU Fortran 95: http://g95.sourceforge.net/ (under construction)
Very good idea, IMO! At those distances and angles, tasers and batons - and training in martial arts, to use them and be able to fight unarmed if necessary - would seem sufficient. It's not easy to smuggle heavy armor onto a plane, so the variety of situations would probably be limited: terrorists get up from amidst the passengers, possibly bring out a knife or a gun, possibly have one or more bombs on the airliner...
Heck, it'd probably be rather easy to train security against most hijacking situations. One or two security specialists in addition to the stewards...or possibly just have at least one or two stewards on each flight be security-trained and equipped. Most flights, the baton wouldn't come out (and could be hidden under the uniform, so you wouldn't know who's armed unless you know they're all armed), so make sure to refresh the training every so often. This might help against air rage, too.
I hope I speak for everyone in the civilised world in offering the USA our deepest sympathies and support.
o stra.htm"
I hope no-one takes this the wrong way, but on reading about todays tragedy, I felt the need to lookup nostradamus' predictions -
(on the third anti-christ)
Out of the country of Greater Arabia
Shall be born a strong master of Mohammed...
He will enter Europe wearing a blue turban.
He will be the terror of mankind.
Never more horror.
In the year 1999 and seven months
From the sky will come the great King of Terror.
He will bring back to life the King of the Mongols;
Before and after war reigns.
The war will last seven and twenty years. (Guentte)
The sky will burn at forty-five degrees.
Fire approaches the great new city.
By fire he will destroy their city,
A cold and cruel heart,
Blood will pour,
Mercy to none. (Guentte)
I guess its possible to read too much into these things... but.
Si
ps. the quotes above were ripped blatantly from "http://boisdarc.tamu-commerce.edu/www/w/willmc/n
I hear they were using old maps that showed an airport in lower manhattan.
Before you mod this down, think of how you reacted when the USAF gave this lame excuse for the bombing of the Chinese embassy in Belgrade. Innocent people were murdered there, too.
Has anyone seen any gas price increases?? It's rumored to be $5.00 a Gallon in Columbus, but I've also heard something about OPEC stopping production???!?
I disable sigs...do you?
Local primaries were supposed to be today, but cancelled due to the incidents.
http://weather.noaa.gov/radar/latest/DS.p20-r/si.k okx.shtml
to f$ck people, you genius! Why else, to give
them a break? What have you been doing lately,
smoking marijuana? Wake up and snort some
cocaine. That's what JonKatz does to write
his classic articles.
Ummm...without trying to sound callous...how did CNN hear of this? Aren't all the passengers dead? Moderators, please READ the posts prior to hitting MODERATE. It helps.
'Hail Eris, baby, hail Eris...pfffffffttt.' *cough* 'Yeah.'
In all the media and reports that I have seen, I haven't seen I single person ask the question of why the U.S. is such a target and have never seen anyone talk about taking steps to minimize the attractiveness of the U.S. as a terrorist target.
So I pose the question, why do you think everyone wants to kill Americans?
I think it is the combination of self righteousness and the control of power leads to the problem. Paranoid, fanatical religous groups are very upset about the control of power that the US has and the religous beliefs that are at the heart of the country. If the US didn't export its culture and belief system (democracy, capitalism, christianity) so fervently, I think the commitment to destruction that the fanatics have wouldn't be as strong. Just my $0.02.
A bit of reflection. This dialogue is taken from Patlabor 2. Goto, a policeman is talking with Arakawa, an intelligence officer.
See if you can see some sense in it:
ARAKAWA:
What are you, the police officer, and I, the JSDF officer, trying to
defend?
It's been half a century since the last war.
Neither you nor I have experienced a war.
Peace...
Peace is what we are supposed to defend.
{CLOUDY RIVER AHEAD}
But what is the peace of this city, this nation?
{SIDE VIEW OF WHARF}
The all-out war and the defeat. The US occupation policy. The Cold War
under the nuclear umbrella and the puppet wars. And civil wars that
still go on in many nations of the world.
Ethnic clash - military conflict.
{GRAIN SILO}
Blood-drenched economical prosperity created and sustained by those
countless wars.
That's what's behind our peace.
Peace created by an indiscriminate fear of war.
An unjust peace that is maintained by having the wars elsewhere, but we
keep denying ourselves this truth.
{LOTS OF TOWERS, FLASHING RED LIGHT}
GOTO:
No matter how phony the peace may be, it's our job to defend it.
No matter how unjust it may be, it's better than a just war.
ARAKAWA:
I understand how you hate "just wars".
Whoever said that word was never half decent.
History is filled with people who fell from grace believing in that.
{BUOY}
But you know only too well that there isn't much of a difference
between a just war and an unjust peace.
Ever since the word "Peace" became the excuse of the liars, we lost our
faith in peace.
Just as war creates peace, peace also creates war.
{JET}
A make-belief peace that's merely the period between two wars will
eventually give way to a real war.
Have you ever thought about that?
While receiving the benefits of war, they're hiding the truth behind
the TV screen.
Forgetting that they're merely at the rear of the battle front.
Or rather pretending to forget about it.
Such deceit will be punished sooner or later.
{LOW SHED}
GOTO:
Punished? By whom? God?
ARAKAWA:
In this town, everyone's more or less God.
Seeing everything without being there.
To have knowledge of everything without having physical contact.
God does nothing. If God doesn't do it, the people will.
We'll find out if we can't catch him.
Belgian on-line media is also covering the events :
Le Soir (in french)
La Libre Belgique
De Standaard (in dutch).
Also in french :
Le Monde
-DZM
However the primary has been postponed here in light of the situation...
-- It only takes 20 minutes for a liberal to become a conservative thanks to our new outpatient surgical procedure!
somebody named Xinoehpoel on alt.prophecies.nostradamus apparently predicted this 7 days before it happened... weird...
$1.60 - $1.70 at 6:56pm EST
Lines are very long and I've heard some stations are up to $2.
Apparently the passenger, Barbara Olsen, made the phone call from within a locked bathroom stall on her cell phone. She called shortly before the plane crashed.
In an effort to come to terms with what has happened, I posted the following website, which examines that theme:
World Trade Center: Reflections on the Disaster
Literacy Weblog http://jerz.setonhill.edu/weblog
I just spoke with the Northside branch (Range Line Rd in Carmel) and was told they will stay until they have served all donors that are there by 20:00 EST. I am number 163 in line, they haven't reached number 100 yet. They recommended to me that if I didn't want to wait until who knows how late tonight, to call back tomorrow (or go in).
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
She managed to lock herself into a bathroom and call 911 on her cell phone. This has been confirmed (and I remember the name, that's who called 911)
So this is possible. I haven't heard anything about what they were armed with, just that she called 911 and reported they'd all been herded into the back of the plane and were being hijacked.
the backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the
main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic.
I'd be willing to lay money on the fact that it's
email. People are talking to each other.
Tweet, tweet.
I dont know if anyone has posted this or not...but on a news group on google someone posted a Prophecy about today..
d m=1d3faac8.0109111019.4025c598%40posting.google.co m&prev=/groups%3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.prophecies. nostradamus">Link</A>
<A HREF="http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threa
"Curiouser and Curiouser...." -Alice
Look at the synopsis from "The Siege", it forecasted a lot of what happened.
A special agent of the FBI, a case officer of the CIA, and a general in the U.S. Army have all taken the same oath - "to support and defend the Constitution" - but when a bus blows up in Brooklyn and a campaign of terror begins to make its bloody mark on a city under siege, the men and women who have sworn to protect the country must now reckon with the many implications of their oath.
Anthony "Hub" Hubbard (Denzel Washington), the head of the joint FBI/NYPD terrorism task force, is the man charged with keeping New York City safe from an array of threats that seem to grow more terrifying with every headline. As an officer of the court, his job is the apprehension and prosecution of criminals. Elise Kraft (Annette Bening) is a CIA operative, now undercover, with important sources in the Arab-American community and ambiguous ties to the suspects. Her agenda, like that of her government's foreign policy, is more complex than Hub's. And yet these two are forced to work together, forging an uneasy alliance, as the incidents of terror threaten to paralyze the city.
But before they can accomplish their mission, the public's clamor for safety forces the hand of the President of the United States - whose only recourse is to declare a State of Emergency and ask help from the military. General William Devereaux (Bruce Willis) is a thoughtful, cautious warrior who well knows the dangers of bringing the army onto the streets of an American city. Although he argues against it, when he's given the unenviable task of imposing military order he responds as a soldier must, with unquestioning obedience and purpose.
As the pursuit of the terrorists becomes more desperate, these three lives become intertwined in a terrible and frightening dilemma, a situation that threatens the very fabric of a democratic society and the central premises on which it is founded.
http://www.thesiege.com/htmls/movie_info2.html
The final parahraph is very important:
At what point does the protection of the country's citizens conflict with the protection of their rights? Faced with such grave danger, how will the members of a free society measure up? How quickly will the country abrogate the Constitution? How shallowly beneath the surface does the ugly spectre of repression and persecution reside? Or more simply put: Will the people of this country be forced to become monsters in order to fight monsters?
At what point does the protection of the country's citizens conflict with the protection of their rights? Faced with such grave danger, how will the members of a free society measure up? How quickly will the country abrogate the Constitution? How shallowly beneath the surface does the ugly spectre of repression and persecution reside? Or more simply put: Will the people of this country be forced to become monsters in order to fight monsters?
You moron, she called 911 from the plane on a mobile phone. Moderators, please BITCHSLAP callous idiots POSTING AT +1. It helps.
Some photos from Brooklyn, of the crowds leaving over the Brooklyn and Manhattan Bridges, of the smoke billowing out over the Manhattan skyline, occluding the sun.
Some friends of mine watched the fire spread down the floors from the plane crashes before the towers collapsed.
http://www.kband.com/photo/
High-resolution versions of these photographs are available on request.
--
Make mine methylphenidate.
The northern allience has just confirmed responsibility for the explosions in Kabul. They say more are planned.
"On the Internet, everyone is an equal until they prove themselves to be a moron." - Emmanuel Goldstein
If you haven't already noticed, Afghanistan just went boom. You know what? I think that the world is just being destroyed right before us
Try loggin off and turning on the TV news or the radio. I would be hard-pressed to call Katz' blurd & Hemo's rumour-mongering news; if anything they offered an outlet for confused people.
Mod me down if you like but my office is 7 blocks from the towers and I watched the first one collapse; it was too dark to see the second one go down.
It's a tragedy and I'm still in shock but save the Katz editorials for school-shootings in middle america and save the posting of unconfirmed reports to DrudgeReport.
Assholes.
The USA/Mexico border has been reopen. I was stuck there for a long time. The one in Tijuana close to san diego.
I guess the lesson is that all future US flights should have police/military personnel on board, so that there's somebody equipped to fight people with knives and cardboard cutters.
I've heard all the Israeli passenger flights have a soldier on board. Can anyone confirm/deny that?
Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
Sorry if this seems a little redundant, but this is the response I have seen from the chinese. I don't think they did it or anything, but I thought they the abscence of condemnation was worrying.
From the BBC Website...
Chinese President Jiang Zemin sent a message to President Bush, expressing sympathy over the attacks and "grave concern" for the safety of Chinese in the United States, the official Xinhua news agency reported.
Given the volume of traffic online today.. you guys have done a great job keeping this site up and runnning smoothly.
Congratulations and Thanks!
I'm seeing all these "official" speakers talking about how this must have involved an organization of at least 30-40 people, that it took months or years to plan, lots of training... one "security expert" claiming they had to have at least four people on the "inside" -- working for the airlines.
I find this all rather hard to believe. Airport security has always looked like a joke to me -- more hand waving to reassure the public than really effective measures.
Why would it take months to book a few flights, get a few phony ID's, and smuggle a few crude weapons on board? Probably the flight crews would give up very quickly, not expecting that the plane was going to be purposely destroyed.
The biggest surprise is that this hasn't happened many times before.
I think we canadians are just fed up with people making fun of our military. Now someone's done it. They've gone and taken the gun and started a war.
You hear comedians talking about it all the time on Just for Laughs, well now it's happened.
I just hope that no one realizes that when we say we spent billions on R&D for our new B-Double-A's that it actually stands for Bow And Arrow.
I realize the seriousness of what's been going on, and my sorrow and prayers go out for those in need, but I do think it necessary to be light-hearted and to find ways to laugh at life and to keep moving on.
Check that newsgroup with a newsgroup reader, and search for that guys name. He last posted on 9/11/01 at 6:55 PM. He is not dead, so he cannot be one of the hijakers...
Are part of the civil war. US is not involved.
Btw... An hotel (I dont know, I'm in Barcelona now) beside TWC is about to collapse in
any moment.
==
That's the time harvesters,that's the time to be care
get back all this people, so ostentatious and arrogan
lots of other pics + video sites + new digital cam shots available at http://www.subterrain.net/wtc FYI
this is probably just crap, but I have heard from a not very reliable source that the taleban are firing on bin laden's base.
Make of that what you will. Personally I reckon that the taleban might just be scared enough of US retaliation to do it.
If I was a leader of the Taliban, I'd be moving pretty quickly to put Osama Bin Laden under arrest, for lots of good reasons. If I was Bin Laden, I'd be resisting arrest, possibly with the help of my own personal army.
Doug Moen.
I have written a truly remarkable program which this sig is too small to contain.
While no public accusations of blame were made by the U.S. government, senior officials, along with experts on terrorism, were unanimous in their belief that the attacks were the work of Osama bin Laden, the Saudi exile who leads the shadowy Al-Qaeda terrorist organization. [MSNBC]
Everyone has jumped to that conclusion because it fits his modus operandi so perfectly, including a boastful video tape alluding to such attacks that has circulated around the middle east in recent weeks (as did similar tapes prior to the attacks in Yemen, our embassies in Africa, etc.).
If and when we determine that it was, in fact, Osama bin Laden I fervently hope we eradicate the bastards and any country which has given him and his followers any form of aid and comfort. If said eradication were to include the use of nuclear weapons I, for one, would not be in the least upset by this. On the contrary, at this moment I would probably cheer. Guilt is for later, after we have killed the enemy and exterminated the vermin, eliminating the threat once and for all.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Let's not imply that my country's government will use wanton killing of civilians as a means of justice.
We set a precident in the Gulf War of attacking the military and war-production facilities of hostile nations/factions, not innocent civilians.
I'm confident we will respond in a measured, fierce manner. The idea is to cripple war-making faculties, no innocents.
ARe they even on the internet? if so, shut them out, do what you can to prevent them from using internet
From CNN.com:
BREAKING NEWS
Afghanistan opposition claims responsibility for Kabul explosions. Details soon.
Personally I agree that the U.S. foreign policy can be wrong in many areas, however, that doesn't justify todays action. The problem is that the U.S. is too wimpy these days to do anything signifigant.I hope I can eat my words later. I wonder if this would have happened had these type of people had the fear that we would retailiate with everything e.g. B-52 carpet bombing etc. Screw the surgical strikes. Totally devistate like the Romans. These people only understand that type of language.
Anyone who has flown out of boston knowns what a joke the security here is. it's no surprise that they chose Logan. Hopefully this will be an impetus for our country to get some real airport security like you see in European countries.
It's good to see that the people at The Naked News have the good taste to suspend programming in light of today's tragedy.
_______
2B1ASK1
Good point, AC! Too many people are advocating insane retaliation levels (nuclear weapons?! genocide?!) without knowing all the facts.
Anyway, that little bit of news disgusted me. Something like $50 million dollars were given to a fucking police state theocracy because they'd been successful at reducing opium exports!
I don't want to jump to conclusions; I don't know if Ben Ladin was responsible for today's disaster... but that money went from corrupt politicians to totalitarian monsters, whether they happen to be today's monsters or not.
As if a million voices cried out in terror...and were suddenly silenced.
I fear something terrible has happened.
Sig An Allen Fronten!!!!!
Barb Olsen was the passenger on the plane that went down in PA who called out on her cell phone.
She was the wife of Ted Olsen, Solicitor General of the United States. Mr. Olsen represents the United States in cases that appear before the Supreme Court.
I will not even begin to speculate on how this will impact our response to the terrorism.
My legal education, in nifty podcast format
using aeroplanes as weapons?
I've certainly never heard of it before, but it's a damn good idea (IF your a terrorist - a terrorist, not me. i'm not a terrorist) as we've seen they have quite an impact, and loaded with passengers, they can't exactly shoot them down. (especially not if they're flying over built up areas). So it seems the only way to prevent this is airport security. which by all accounts sucks on internal flights (and is definitly dubious on external).
Have planes been used as weapons in the past?
although we still don't know quite what they stand for, they definitly have our attention when they finally tell us. Pity it takes this kind of thing to make a statement. Peaceful campaigners never get this kind of publicity..
Notice that I did open the possibility that it wasn't the Palestinians. But I had a typo when I said the 'data' was indicative, rather it's the 'date' that's indicative, as the anniversary of the Camp David Peace Accord. There is speculation that the Pittsburgh airplane was headed there. There is also some feeling that the World Trade Center was an important target to Bin-Laden, as a symbol of American Money, and considering that there had already been one attempt.
You're right in it's early to rush to judgement.
But at the moment, the two most likely parties appear to be Palestinians or anti-globalization Slashdotters. I really don't believe the IRA would touch this one.
Besides, until enough facts come out to sway public opinion that it's NOT Palestinian, they'll most likely bear the brunt of blame.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Well, they used to have US Marshalls onboard commercial flights (in the 50s?), so they may again...
> VOTE!
Thanks for reminding me! I read your message, dashed down to the polls, and they were closed. Closed sometime this morning apparently, with no word on when or if they'll reopen.
NY State seems to be generally overreacting around here. I work at the state univ. at Buffalo; they closed early too.
So everyone else: go vote! I'll join you when they let me.
I find that hard to believe.
Are you telling me that upwards of 50 people (per plane... not so sure about that number) were herded by a hand-full with KNIVES?!
Hell, *I* would take a crack at a terrorist armed with nothing but a knife, especially if I were across the isle from someone anywhere near as big as I am (6'2" 210lbs).
Not to say that I'm athletic or anything, but I took a little wrestling in jr. high, and have a little martial arts training here and there. I would CHEERFULLY lay my life on the line in a situation like that... and there are people around who are bigger, braver, and better trained than I.
It is written that we should love our wives as Jesus loved the church. He laid down his life for us, and we can be expected to do no less for our loved ones.
To have a chance at success, a highjacker needs to establish that he/she/it is NOT TO BE FUCKED WITH. A knife just isn't going to cut it (pun intended).
Next theory please.
On the other hand, if this does turn out to be true (anything's possible, today has certianly proven that), then these guys must have been Highly Skilled in hand-to-hand, and probably had to deal with exactly the kind of attack I would have participated in.
--Mark (shouldn't have bothered to come to work today for all the good I've done... couple slashdot posts and 30 lines of code to show for it)
All retaliation is at least one order of magnitude above what the original wrongdoing called for. The Nazis come to mind, and now this attack today. Violence always escalates because the involved parties believe they will "teach the other side a lesson." The lesson of violence only teaches retaliation at least one order of magnitude too severe.
--- WWSD? What Would Strider Do?
Maybe but the palestinians were the only ones celebrating the event on tv.
... is at
a al 11.gif
http://www.filepile.org:8080/f/pictures/ual175_
Shows the flight path of 2of4 planes involved.
How much faster would we have been able to access news if pop-up ads had REALLY been suspended?
They are all at Threatcon Delta. Their website currently only lists their status as of the beginning of the attacks, which was Threatcon Charlie.
Many (most?) military facilities have been at Force Protection Condition Alpha since the bombings at the American Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania back in 1998 ('FPCON' replaced 'THREATCON' in June as the official term so as to avoid confusion with the Department of State's 'Threat Levels' for countries or regions).
I was under the impression /. was a site about computers and technology.... There hasn't been a non-terrorist posting all day!
While we are on the subject... I think this will hurt the rights of everyone, globally. With heightened threats come heightened security, and more sophisticated monitoring tools. I think this will detract from what we consider 'anonymity'. Everything will be more closely watched, including you and I.
The US and I'm sure other governments don't want something this horrid to happen again. I believe they will stop at nothing.
Think, facial recognition in public areas, carnivore efforts stepped up + greater public support. I really fear these enevidable results. The US government will use this to 'hijack' their way into our lives.
Ouch... very ouch.
Aditionally, I just heard, that Barbara Olsen, passenger on one of the planes, told her husband, that the terrorists were armed with no more than "knives and cardboard cutters".
Ummm...without trying to sound callous...how did CNN hear of this? Aren't all the passengers dead? Moderators, please READ the posts prior to hitting MODERATE. It helps.
The report I heard on one of the news stations was that Barbara Olsen called her husband from the plane to tell him that it had been hijacked. I believe that this was the plane that went into the Pentagon.
I have nothing to back this up other than what I heard on (I believe) CBS.
-Rob
and fill hollowpoints with bacon. Time to not allow others to follow to Allah.
DanH
Cav Pilot's Reference Page
UNIX - Not just for Vestal Virgins anymore
I ask only this of you fellow slashdotters... Please don't make crap up or speculate at this point. It only causes more harm.
WE DO NOT KNOW who was responsible for the attacks yet. You could guess at Middle-Eastern countries, but that just helps to alienate and insult the middle-easterners who were innocent (which is most of them.) For all we know, it may as well have been an ally.
Today at my school many people who looked middle-eastern (notice I said LOOKED, they may not have even been) were picked on. This stems from hate and fear, which BOTH come out of ignorance. We need to shut up about what hasn't been proven.
And the same goes for the explosions, etc., in other countries.
I will have the most accurate, truthful information I can find along with many pictures and videos on my website, ModernPsycho.com, which has not been slashdotted *yet*.
On a final note, my heart goes out to all that have been injured or killed from the day's events, or those close to people who have.
I just had a thought -- what effect is this going to have on the dissemination of civilian encryption technology?
Right now everybody's trying to figure out how this could possibly have been planned in secret. Eventually the finger pointing is going to get around to encryption technology, and maybe even the recent lifting of restrictions.
I fear we're about to be set back decades in the battle to effectively communicate in a private manner.
http://www.ifccfbi.gov
in this age of communication i'm just not getting through
Has anybody noticed that it is September 11? Or 9-11-01
or 911.
Coincidence? Or Irony.
-S
We Apprentice Developers and Designers
Part of me is outright angry at those who did this.
Part of me wonders why there can't be peace on this earth.
Part of me cries at the loss suffered by the families.
Part of me is callous, and knows it was going to happen some day.
Part of me stayed home this morning.
Part of me went to work this afternoon.
Part of me says "Go home now".
Part of me says "Go hide under a rock".
The whole of me is split - and I really don't know what to say...
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
Not true. Local San Diego stations say it's open but each car is being inspected. Passage been slown to a halt.
Minor URL correction:
l 11.gif
http://www.filepile.org:8080/f/pictures/ual175_aa
175 was a United plane and it was the plane that hit the second building.
Little is known about the final moments on board the four hijacked airplanes used in Tuesday?s terrorist attacks but frantic phone calls from some passengers paint nightmarish scenes. In one, a man aboard United Airlines Flight 93 called an emergency dispatcher from a bathroom using a cell phone: "We are being hijacked, we are being hijacked!" he declared moments before the plane crashed near the Somerset County airport, about 80 miles southeast of Pittsburgh. ... we are being hijacked?" Then, the phone went dead.
[...]
On board the plane that crashed into the Pentagon, conservative political commentator Barbara Olson reportedly called her husband, U.S. Solicitor General Ted Olson, on a cell phone: "Can you believe this
Nothing for 6-digit uids?
If she called 911, what does this have to do with her husband???
Well, since one of the crafts was heading to Camp David before it was shot down, let me say that the Camp David Accords was from September 5 to September 17, 1978. Although the 11th doesn't act as a significant day, it was somewhat a turning point day from where Isreal finaly came to the conclusion that they'd need to sign the agreement. Search google for the subject and read about it.
Also, someone else says that tomorrow is / would have been the sentencing date for the first World Trade Center bombers (the ones who used a car with a bomb in it).
-Nicholas Blasgen
I found this article at the London Times site. Here are some excerpts.
"Apparently no action was taken by air traffic controllers as they watched the first radar blips head south, instead of west, directly toward New York City."
"When the second aircraft entered New York airspace, it apparently was not challenged about leaving its flight path minutes after the first aircraft, even though the fate of the first flight was already known."
I'll let you all form you own opinions on this.
"He who makes a beast of himself gets rid of the pain of being a man" --Dr. Johnson
Canadian Blood Services at 1-888-2-DONATE
There's a blood bank at Sunnybrook in Toronto, but it's swamped -- so call the number first.
There was a report that some burn victims might be airlifted to Sunnybrook. (500 miles) If they don't need the blood in Toronto, they can ship it on to New York.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
http://lansponsor.com/memorialwallpaper.jpg
Mirror it if you can.
- force isreal out of the settlement in palestina
(bad moment, but necessary)
- split jerusalem in parts of equal size and put in under un control
- form a bilateral aliance us, eu, russia, china to coordinate actions against terrorism and make sure that every country responsible for originating of terrorism will be held responsive for this
- remodel secret-services into dedicated terrorism fighting units
"In the city of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers (the towers) torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress (pentagon) endures, the great leader will succumb", "the third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
If this isn't as freaky as hell, I don't know what is.
[ ]
here is list of stories related to the attack that should automatically update as more news gets posted around the internet.
Robert Speisman, was the Senior Vice President - Sales of the Company, Lazare Kaplan International Diamonds since January 1999. He was Vice President - Sales of the Company from April 1986 until January 1999. Mr. Speisman had been a director of the Company since 1989. Mr. Speisman was the son-in-law of Maurice Tempelsman and the brother-in-law of Leon Tempelsman. He was a friend, and Uncle, a good husband to his wife Rena and a stupendous father to his children Tara, Britney, and Haley. He will be sorely missed. Keep on truckin' Uncle Bob! I love you! -Ray Barbiero
-- -=innocent ramblings from the mind of an insomniatic programmer=-
insightful
Iraq television has commented (but not condemned) to the act against the U.S:
"The fruit of the american crimes against humanity"
Keep in mind, American (USA) casualties in Viet Nam were approx 50,000. We probably lost the same number of people today.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
when everyone is this emotional, you do need to laugh as well as cry from time to time
Rebuild the towers
Put a memorial in between, but build them back up and make them even bigger this time. Send a clear message both the citizens of this country and to the terrorists who would threaten us. You can knock them down, but we'll build them right back. We won't be broken and we will not live in fear.
My sympathies victims, their families and all those affected by today's tragedies.
A lady called her husband from the bathroom of the plain that crashed into the Pentagon. She said the only weapons the terrorists had were knifes and cardboard cutters. I can't believe that of all the people on that plane, or the others for that matter, that nobody tried to "be the hero." Seems like someone on at least one of those planes could have been a big bad man, of course this isn't the movies no matter how much we want it to be....
"Excuses are like asses, everyone has one and they all stink." - Adam Corrola
The server for wtc-top.com seems to be down.
U :w ww.wtc-top.com/funfacts.html+wtc+facts&hl=en
Read the google-cache at:
http://www.google.com/search?q=cache:pAFmM6tWlq
Roger.
I fully agree with you that Nuclear Retaliation
is thoroughly unjustified right now. ANY large
scale attack that kills innocent civilians is
unjustified.
However, Hiroshima and Nagasaki may very well have
been the right thing to do in their times. It's
easy to forget that without such a display of
devastating force, Japan would likely not have
surrendered, and we would have spent thousands upon thousands of lives -- Japanese as well as American -- fighting to take them by conventional methods.
It's absolutely awful what happened to Hiroshima and Nagasaki. I don't deny that. However, faced with equally awful alternatives, the US made a choice, and it may have even been the better choice.
Tweet, tweet.
Sung to "The Battle Hymn of the Republic"
Mine eyes have seen the eagle, body bloodied, feathers torn.
Head bowed in sorrow and remembrance as he mourns.
The clenching of his talons and the vengeance he has sworn.
The Eagle will fly on
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
The Eagle will fly on
Through the fires and the bloodshed you can hear the call resound.
At the altar of redemption, we will gather all around
Taken up across the country, heavens shaken by the sound.
The eagle shall fly on
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
The eagle shall fly on
You can hear his cries of fury ring from every mountainside.
His shriek of fiery justice will no longer be denied.
He will strike the bloody-handed for the innocent who died.
The Eagle still flies on
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
The eagle still flies on.
With Golden eyes of judgment and a beak of blackened steel
To avenge the wrongly fallen, he will heed their last appeal
He will fly unto the wicked and bring them all to kneel.
The eagle still flies on
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
The eagle still flies on.
He will rise above the maelstrom, he will soar upon the wind.
He shall fall upon the guilty and reward them for their sin
From the ashes of destruction he will rise to fly again.
The eagle shall fly on
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
Glory! Glory! Hallelujah!
The eagle shall fly on!
mhall - 9/11/01
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
I found this threw a post on penny-arcade.
A guy on usenet alt.prophecies.nostradamus warned of something happening on 9/11 and he posted it on sep. 4th.
then today he follows up saying he knew this was happening.
read posts 1 and 7
the read this
Uhh, so hijackers crashing planes into downtown Manhattan, killing hundreds or thousands of civilians and leveling the most important center of trade in the USA is somehow US Gov't policymakers' fault? Sorry, don't follow you.
The big issue right now all over seems to be how to go about retaliating to this tragedy. I am rather offended by the people that quickly say that we should bomb the snot out of all the people involved without thinking anything over.
I really thing this incident is attempted murder of capitolism and really should be dealt with as such. The US has been stepping on so many countries for so long that this catastrophe was long in the making. Why else would they pick the WTC? Law enforcement is a substitute for a dysfunctional system of government. Until our government becomes perfect, law enforcement will be necessary to some degree, but with this situation I believe we need to work on our system and not our intelligence agencies.
If you weren't aware, the US is frowned upon for executing such a minimal amount of prisoners each year by Europe, one of our major trade partners. The death penelty is seen as a form of revenge, or murder. Europe believes that revenge should be left behind in the past with the middle ages. Even from a capitolist standpoint, going ahead with a massive revenge campaign would cut down on so many trade options.
Instead of retaliating with force, I believe we have to retaliate with change. We need to work with other nations without profits in mind. Our nation needs to work toward a system of Marxist Communism where everyone helps each other without personal benifit in mind. Once we are done getting New York back in order, don't stop there! There are so many things in your community you could do to help out. Contribute without monatary or religious reasons.
Right now I see the US similar to the Nazi's. We try to be in complete control of everything, maybe not as severe as the Nazi's, but we still try to clear a space for ourselves to lead perfect worry free lives, and everything that is wrong we try to put out of view, much like the 1950's. This is our awakening that everything isn't perfect. The world is too large, it is too difficult to have complete control over. People can't be stopped from not fitting in the system. Eventually the lowest class will take on the highest.
Finally the underdog has giving us a taste of the tragedy, like what is everpresent in their own lives. Finally the rich that worked in the WTC have been pulled from their perfect lives and shoved into a catastrophe. I agree with the goal of the hijacking, although I am completely opposed to the means they used to prove their point. It's so very sad that so many people had to die today, but revenge isn't the way to set things right. I hope I might have convinced some of you.
-cybrpnkr, a dumbass suburbian kid from the midwest
Suggested Reading:
A Series of Shock Slogans and Mindless Token Tantrums
A document by the 1st wave punk band crass, describing how to live in global unity through anarchy. Some of it is conspiracy theory, although much can be learned from it.
I don't care WHAT YOUR POLITICS ARE... anyone that could actually cheer the loss of human life (civilian by the way) is a pathetic excuse for existence. Plus, this really (and I hate to say this) shows the true face of Arabs and Islam. Islam... you have failed humanity, so expect to be punished.
+++ath0
I am worried that the attacks were not Terrorist at all. One nasty twist that I could come up with is that Israeli forces did this and planted evidence to make it look like Palestinian terrorists.
Why? Well one scenario is Israel frustrated at losing US support of its tactical measures against Palestine uses special forces to commit this atrocity as a "Palestinian attack" to galvanize US support for continuing violence against Palestinians.
That is complete heresy with not a scrap of truth to it, but ideas like that chill me a lot more than a terrorist attack.
And many things on this page (it's in french though, but you can find some pictures). http://www.cyberpresse.ca/reseau/actualites/0109/a ct_101090013238.html
I live in Canada and we all see this on almost every TV channel and every radio station since this morning. The images we can see are simply horrific and unthinkable. What scares me most is that it could lead to a WWIII. And I don't want to.
I and my friends express our sincerest sympathy to the family's victims and all the USA.
some info on the current state of this torn nation:
http://www.afghania.com/
powered by SlashCode
We need to ban these dangerous knives from our city streets and airports. I ask that everyone join with me and sign my petition to ban the carrying of concealed cutlery.
The U.S. government has a history of thinking that violence is the answer. The U.S. government killed 2,100,000 people in Vietnam and maybe 150,000 people in Iraq. The U.S. has bombed 14 countries in 30 years, killing a roughly estimated 3,000,000 people. None of the people who were killed were in any way directly threatening the U.S.
Bush's education improvements were
> >For the US to respond in force in less than 12 > >hours would practically imply that someone
> >giving orders knew about the trade center
> >attacks before they happened.
> Funny you should mention this. When I was
> driving to work this morning, I was listening to
> the radio here in LA (KYSR, Jamie and
> Danny) and someone had called in saying that
> they were in the Army Reserve, and was told LAST
> NIGHT to go on standby!
Mod this up. This is important. If there's ANY indication the government knew something was up, then we need to know about it.
Tweet, tweet.
We here at school have begun collecting images and video to help out with the bandwidth problem the news sites are having... Here Also feel free to send anything in...
QED
I have set up a some shoutcast servers with the audio off CNN, for all those people who don't have access to CNN
server1 server2
.:work is a selfinflicted handicap:.
If you're using geocities.com as a free service, your traffic per hour is restricted, so it's no good for providing pictures etc. IIRC, you have 3 GB / month, but your actual traffic is checked on an hourly basis and access is removed as soon as you go over a certain limit.
Right now, your page looks like that:
Access to this site will be restored within an hour.
Not to sound heartless, but isn't it illegal to use a cell phone on an airline? She could've gotten into a lot of trouble had she survived.
At last count more than 5400 comments have been posted about today's terrorist attacks, including one story which has broken the all-time record for Most Active Stories. This goes to show how powerful online discussion forums like Slashdot are and how useful of a communication medium it truly is.
/. still running, but like ham radio networks, communication is still fluid!
The Internet was designed to keep operating under nuclear attack. Despite today's heavy online traffic not only is
You guys might want to read this:
h t& th=54ab4d241c34e0cc&seekm=3b8fd177%40monitor.lanse t.com#link1
"Wait 7 days, and then maybe I'll answer this post. You see, I am going away
in seven days, and you will not hear from me again."
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=rig
You are looking at the situation now that its happened. No one on that would have thought in a million years they were about to be flown into a building. Not even a small thought in the back of their mind. Its never happened and hopefully never will again. What usually happens when someone hijacks a plane? They set the plane down somewhere and make some demands and eventually everyone is released unharmed. Now, in the future hijacking a plane with a knife probably won't get you very far. Now that people have seen this.
read the updates
http://www.google.com/currentevents/ has links that are cached/ not quite flooded
Thank you, you actually claim a source! Sorry if I sound a little out of it, but I don't own a television. This means that I don't really have a context for some of these posts, so a little more explanation actually helps. I do appreciate the extra effort. I still don't see what the original poster has found out that has to do with cardboard cutters...maybe the original thread poster can give some insight?
'Hail Eris, baby, hail Eris...pfffffffttt.' *cough* 'Yeah.'
I just heard on cnn shoutcast stream (http://131.174.207.13:8000) that you can report any related infomation to the fbi through their site http://www.ifccfbi.gov.
/.ed but a quick check finds that they finaly updated it.
Ignore the title "Internet Fraud Complaint Center." As of now the site appears to be
Also the fbi's own http://www.fbi.gov seems to be having the same problems as well as some html mistakes, so you might want to wait for things to calm down.
(reposting here since it was a reply earlier and people probably won't see it)
First and foremost, I do NOT think the actions today are justified; it was a horrible act, and furthermore, not just an terrorist attack, but an -act of war-. The US should retaliate, should find whoever committed the act, and show that we will not take this sitting down.
OTOH, we have to understand why this happened. It's hard to look at things rationally when something like this happens, especially when its a direct attack to our country, but we still do need to understand why things happens so we can prevent it later.
Here, let me use an analogy that (most) of you will hopefully understand. When Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold shot up Columbine High School, there were a lot of people (especially here) who said that their acts were horrendous, but they understood why they were committed: the boys were bullied and tortured constantly for years; they were finally getting revenge, kamikaze style.
That said, (from what i've read) the Palestinians are extremely angry at the US because we supply Israel with weapons, money, and generally advocate their actions, and Israel in turn torture Palestinan citizens and generally treat them like shit (for lack of a better term). This is their act of revenge, and although I say we should understand it, it should definitely not go unpunished. However, simply destroying Afghanistan (which we can without a doubtr easily do) will do no good.
Furthermore, here's my guesses on how things will pan out:
Assuming we bomb (or attack) Afghanistan (not just bin Laden) there will be further retaliation, and eventually start another war. If other countries don't get involved, that'll be it, and hopefully it'll end as quickly as the Gulf War. If other countries do get involved, I can easily see this turning into a World War III. Let me mention that we do -not- want a WWIII, simply because of the arms technologies available now. (Nuclear and atomic weapons, biological and chemical warfare, etc)
Anyways, that's it for now, focus back to CNN....
Telephone and Internet relies on copper/fibre too much. Perhaps if more internet devices were wireless it would be better. Or maybe just cell phones are the future?
But my suggestion? Probably carrier pigeons!
They dont get slashdotted and they cant be hi-jacked.
You might know her from writing that book about Hillary and various CNN panel discussions.
Except that the perpetrators were Japanese. I wonder where people get their ideas from?
We here at school have begun collecting images and video to help out with the bandwidth problem the news sites are having... Here Also feel free to send anything in...
I am listening to "Marketplace" on my public radio station. The devistation to the financial markets in the U.S. and world will be huge. The "bombings" were without a doubt a frontal assalt on our financial structure; a direct swipe at capitalism.
Morgan Stanley Dean Witter, Dutchebank, and hundreds of the bigtime names in the financial world had their main offices in that building. Thousands of U.S. dollars filtered through those offices.
I don't want to minimize the loss of life by a long shot... this is obviously what we need to center our thoughts on right now, but just a notice that this will have major reprocussions on the economy of the United States and the world. The dollar is going to lose a lot of value in the coming days, and who knows what account information was lost in the attack.
The world will go on. The markets will continue. We will continue... but we need to all get ready for a fight!
"Yes.. no matter what the culture, folk dancing is stupid." -MST3K
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&threadm=1d3f aac8.0109111019.4025c598%40posting.google.com&prev =/ groups%3Fhl%3Den%26group%3Dalt.prophecies.nostrada mus
it's a newsgroup. he predicts the date, the 'holy war' style, and flight 11.
(Kickaha, posting as AnonCwd due to acct problem)
Just as with conventional weapons, nukes come in various sizes, from the ICBM city killers to battlefield tactical nukes. Kill zone of a couple hundred *yards*, low rad. The plus? Complete devastation in that small area. Good for say, a HQ or armed camp.
However, they have a *SERIOUS* psychological effect. "Holy crap! They used *NUKES*! They're *SERIOUS*!"
Seems correct to me.
NPR is offhandedly stating that there were no weapons of mass destruction involved today. I would like to point out that all the agents that have been identified by the CDC as high risk biological weapons have incubation periods of more than a day. In other words, there could easily be an Anthrax outbreak in New York tomorrow. The crash site in Penn is being investigated by officials in Haz-Met suits...shouldn't measures be taken here?
Probably a question for "ask /.", but why can't a quick log analysis reveal who made reservations on those hijacked flights via the web? My thinking is that the only way to coordinate this dastardly plan would have involved that - the departure times, time needed to "secure" the cockpit, having a "pilot and crew" ready in the boarding line. With access to this, a team of profiling and/or background checkers would soon come up with *educated* guesses...
Let's not forget another less-than-obvious way to get to the bottom of this: irc and newsgroups, the latter being a more feasible clue-getter, but the former more possible a way that these assholes communicate with each other (rather than directly).
And, at the risk of being flamebait, it's easy to see this is a perfect application for Carnivore (as long as the suspected language(s) {including English})are understood and the proper keywords used, even though I personally was dead against any such "sniffing" sofware. Until now.
an exerpt from a message from my stepbrother: The sophistication of the operation can be seen in the choice of flights, each of which headed West under control of separate flight regions. Each region therefore saw aberrant flight of one aircraft; no one had an overview of four large California bound aircraft vectored back toward NY and DC at the same time.
And finally: Can't we as geeks help in the effort? Fsck the DMCA - get into the computers that have the info and expose it - to allow intelligent prosecution of the real perps!?
db
Cig:
ôô
...should be interesting...
The backbone is, according to them, at about 80% utilization -- they've never seen it above 40% before. However, the main portal sites such as Yahoo aren't having substantively higher than normal traffic.
I might have some insight into this. Being in New York (but nowhere near where the problems are), I was unable to reach anyone by phone (to let them know that I'm fine) until late in the afternoon. However, I was able to e-mail people. So I probably sent roughly 20 to 30 times the normal amount of e-mail.
If everyone in New York (or who knows someone in New York) was heavily using e-mail today, that could account for a great deal of traffic that didn't go to major portals. Just a thought.
Then I made the mistake to take it too far. I went to #e, and said "sorry to intrude, if you think it's cool, read and mod up. But I want to see if we can get mirrors going."
#e $#*$)@*#()!@ bastards (as usual) said "your pimping points) and instantly moded this story and the parent down because "It's uncool to pipm points."
I say F*#$()#@*!() them... I just TOLD people about the story on #windowmaker, it was thier choice to mod it up for the merit of the story. #e mod'ed it to ZERO after that just to try to prove a point that "Pimping point's is uncool".
Our nation has been attacked, all I was trying to do was find a way to spread the word. PERIOD.
Granted I got 2-3 points from friends who agreed.... But... To trash a topic for just spite is f#*!)!) lame.
... just put a remote-controlled self-destruction mechanism in every plane and give the remote control to the FBI. And don't tell anyone about it.
We here at school have begun collecting images and video to help out with the bandwidth problem the news sites are having... Here Also feel free to send anything in...
This will no doubt change airline security forever. Perhaps what is needed is a total redesign of these jumbo jets, i.e., to have the pilot cabin totally sealed off from the rest of the plane. The pilots could enter a separate door, and then have each of them enter a security code in order to start the engines. Is there any reason that the pilots need access to the rest of the plane? Separating them will give the pilots a hell of a lot more options in a hijack situation. They can radio for help, and they can put the plane down on their terms. And, most importantly, it will keep terrorists from taking direct control of the aircraft. As was said on NPR today, a 767 is a terrorist's dream bomb -- up to 250 passengers on board, 20,000 lbs of fuel, and who knows how many tons of steel traveling at a high velocity.
Let's face it, today's airliners are NOT designed with security in mind.
I posted a bunch of links to local US Red Cross sites over at www.everythingzen.org. www.redcross.org is getting hammered, so hopefully this will help. Any cities whose pages were hosted on www.redcross.org (Tampa and Cincinnati, for instance) are not listed.
I've provided a timeline of events for today. It's updated constantly.
http://www.geocities.com/deusnoctum/index.html .
Je pense, donc je lis Slashdot.
It would be grossly irresponsible to tell our enemies what we will not do, no matter how unlikely the exercise of that option may be. Our enemies must, at the very least, always have the thought in the back of their mind that if they anger us sufficiently WE CAN ANNIHILATE THEM.
To our men in uniform: Good hunting.
I don't fly much but I have wondered why the doors to the cockpit was so flimsy. So they lock it, big deal. Why isn't it armored? It's not like airplanes haven't been used for this type of distruction before ( World War II - Kamikaze's ).
I just heard a White House official saying that all kinds of new security will be enacted but nothing he mentioned would have stopped these people. Armored cockpit doors and armed pilots would have. Even having a few plainclothed security officials on each plane would help but I like having the regular flight crew armed since they would be well known by each member.
This shouldn't have happened. It shouldn't happen again. IMHO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
See the September 4 comment by Xinoephoel. The goddam lameness filter won't let me insert a proper link to his comment.
Intel transfer the difficult from Hadware to software, for get more power, programmer need more technology. -- chinaitn
From what an Air Force friend of mine tells me, all military bases are still in Threatcon Delta.
From what I understand, this means no personal are allowed to leave or enter the base for security reasons. (Which means, he can not go on duity...)
Ahh okay, my friend just gave me this link, it describes exactly what the differant levels are:
http://www.wpafb.af.mil/sfs/threatcon.html
I do not know about you guys, but I am totally devistated. I use my TV as an alarm clock, so the first thing I woke up to this morning was one of the towers with a huge gaping hole in it... I sat there and watched everything happen. I still could not believe what I saw when I watched the buildings collapse right in front of me on the TV.
This has all been so intence... I could not help but to cry each time I started to comprehend what exactly I was seeing on TV. Found it fairly hard to get to work... trying to fight the tears out of my eyes so I can see the road. Then now, at work... I am having to restrain my self.
I just can not believe how horrible all this is. I mean... geez... this is all going on in my own back yard (well, you know what I mean... I live in california... but its in the same country as I live in... this is all happening to fellow americans...)
It was not like some army came in with attack aircraft... They hijacked our OWN commercial aircraft... filled with americans just like me... and made them part of their plan for mass destruction.
Not to mention I am still having problems trying to grasp the consept of just HOW many people died...
This is a very sad day...
Luke
Perhaps the most frustrating aspect of this situation is that there isn't a single bad-guy country out there that acts as the "enemy." Instead, we have these loosely organized groups that cross international boundaries and aren't tied to specific nation-states. There simply is no way (within the Euro-American mindset) to defend against an enemy that plans to die in the attempt to wage war.
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
I don't think thats important right now.
What the hell is the matter with you. People like you and the fanatics who did this are the reason I hope there is Hell. I pray you suffer an eternity for your cruelty.
As quick as we are to point our fingers at the arab world for this terrorist attack, who else could be responsible? In other words, who has a motive?
* Iran, Iraq, or some group in the Arab-Muslim world - obvious and overt hatred of the US, especially with our sonstant support of Israel.
* China or some Chinese group - well, we haven't exactly had the greatest relations with the giant of the east. They have the money, the discipline, the technical know-how (to fly the plane) and the grudge against the US
* Russian group - while the government probably wouldn't sponsor this (they don't pay people enough over there to seal their lips about something this big) the Russian mafia has the money and ex-communist military personell have the technical know-how and grudge.
* Internal - we have a lot of people who are disgruntled with the government and the economy of this country. Look at Oklahoma City - Tim McVeigh and (I think) Terry Nichols were in the military. Could this have been a small ex-military group fed up with the US somehow? They would definitely have the expertise.
I'm sure other possibilities exist, but these are the few that came to the top of my head. Remember, the US has a lot of enemies.
Boom.
And also...
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, two brothers torn apart by chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb.", "The third big war will begin when the big city is burning." - Nostradamus
Security through promiscuity is no better than security through obscurity.
As a Danish citizen, and a member of the Danish equivalent of the national guard, I hope that my next few remarks may be considered.
Having speculated on the prospect of going to full military awareness level, I would fully agree to going to such an excess. Noone can deny, that the attack on the US is one of the most abonimable acts of terrorism ever, but the largest threat lies not in the scale of theese events, but in the aftermath, that we are about to witness. I am not one to dispute, that the US is entitled to a retaliation, but imagine the scenario, where the US targets the wrong country/area/terrorist faction. Then we have a scenario where we have a united Middle East (well, almost) against the US, and a NATO, that cannot approve of an attack against virtually innocent civilians (let's face it. One cannot retaliate this event by attacking purely military installations). This would leave a shattered NATO (and hence a shattered UN), which would leave us all open to just about everything. I, for one, is happy, that we do no longer have the cold war to worry about...
Thus, I would strongly advice to put a lid on the initial anger, and think of the bigger perspective.
Not hiding behind a nickname, I submit my views as Sune Mølgaard, Århus Denmark
"The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
Yeah and only armed with knives. It goes to show that the ultimate weapon is the human mind.
Actually, I think this is where you wanted to link.
On the off chance that there is someone in the world who hasn't seen photos of this yet I put some video stills that I captured off TV today on my home server...
:)
Here.
Let's see how long my T-1 will hold up.
Hey Bush didnt say a goddamn thing wtf????
Doesnt he have any info??
I am currently in the processing of mirroring CNN's website (three cheers for wget). As soon as I have finished, it will be available at http://www.aviation.ou.edu. I am only mirroring their main site (www.cnn.com), not their sub-sites (cnnfn.cnn.com and sportsillustrated.cnn.com), so you will still have to visit their servers to get those stories (and cnnfn does have some stories), but hopefully getting at least some of the Slashdot community off of CNN's servers can help them somewhat. It will probably be slightly behind CNN (possibly as much as 30 minutes, hopefully not that long), so I apologize in advance for any outdated content, as well as for any delay in posting new stories.
Incidentally, I am not certain about the capacity of my server, so if it should get slashdotted under the load (and it would probably be the server, not the network), please send me an e-mail at dbuckles@ou.edu, and I will try to restore it as quickly as possible.
--Dave
"Make it ten--I am only a poor corrupt official."
--Captain Louis Renault (Claude Rains), Casablanca
Well, the FAA just fined American Airlines a pile of money for lax security practices.
Check it out.
Mike Hoye
a hotline has been set up for those Australians with family in America
1800 002 214
Australian Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade has more for those who need it
not all borders are closed
Sad world when
hate me, fine, I will not post or step in again, I promise. Someone else can mirror and set things up, I swear I will step aside, just PLEASE stop mod'ing the post down, just let it happen... I'm sure someone will step up and mirror and script....
But it seems to me there are also some things that can be done to the planes to make hijackings of this sort all but impossible.
First of all, make it impossible to get from the main cabin to the cockpit. Put a separate outside door on the cockpit and give the cockpit area a dedicated restroom and food storage area. If there's no physical access to the cockpit from the passenger area, it becomes impossible to point a gun at the pilot's head (though one could still take the passengers hostage, of course).
Barring that -- or in addition to that -- all commercial planes should be equipped with live cockpit video feeds from multiple angles, no "off" switch, to allow ground controllers to instantly see if something is going wrong. That alone doesn't prevent hijackings, but it means you'll instantly be able to see which passenger is responsible, and potentially deploy military aircraft to force the plane down before it reaches its destination. It's also useful in non-terrorist situations.
Live video of the passenger cabin is more problematic from a privacy point of view, but again gives you an early warning that something is wrong. It can prevent someone from being able to pop unnoticed into the restroom to disguise themselves (and thus make themselves harder to trace back to terrorist HQ) before taking a hostage or breaking into the cockpit. Personally, I don't really consider myself to be in a private space when I'm on a plane and would have few qualms with video surveillance, especially if it was of the wide-angle, over-the-seattops variety. Hell, you could even subsidize it by adding a couple extra cameras and letting businesspeople hold video conferences.
None of this stops someone from wanting to take over a plane and use it as a missile, which is the real root cause here. But I hope there'll be some consideration of relatively simple preventive measures like these in addition to the calls for strip-searching everyone who gets on a plane.
while it is true that you cannot defend against them by passive means (increasing border security etc.), it is quite possible to defend by exterminating them. Almost all terrorist organisations confirm to your definition of current enemy, and they have always been confirming to it. With sufficient intelligence, it is possible to fight against them. World's most powerful nation should be so easy to despair. After all, many smaller nations did fight against these groups before and some have even succeded.
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
Just because your head is shoved so far up your ass in denial doesnt mean your hands are clean. Your gov't acts on your behalf when they rape and shit on so many people across the world. Go open a history book and get some perspective miscreant.
...World's most powerful nation should NOT be so easy to despair...
Gentlemen, you can't fight in here, this is the War Room!
All flights to/from Tel Aviv (presumably all of Israel, though Ben Gurion is the major airport in Israel) have several (3-5, apparantly) anti-terrorism agents on board to help in case of emergency. If they suspect you of being a terrorist, you're in big trouble. If you are one, they kill you (if possible).
--Dan
Someone else, whose comment I can't seem to find at the moment, asked why this couldn't have been the work for a small group. Looking at most terrorist groups, fielding one terrorist requires a support network of ~50 other people, in varying levels of involvement with the organization. If we assume that there were 3-4 terrorists per plane, that gives us an associated organization of 600-800 people. Please note, this is the size of the logistical support group and involved sympathizers, not the size of the active cadre which is the number usually shown in law enforcement estimates. Also, we're dealing with suicide bombers here (essentially). Suicide bombers are usually isolated for days or weeks immediately preceding their missions, and are closely attended during those days by people who are skilled in psychological manipulation and indoctrination and are able to psych the terrorist up for his mission. This is an activity which requires at least a small handful of people for each terrorist, which is going to leave us again with at least 30-50 people actively complicit in the plot. It's hard to find 12-16 people who are a- suicidal; b-can plan an attack like this and c-can exercise enough self-restraint over a to do b. It's much easier to have a large group do the planning and logistics, and then pull a handful of suicidal or martyrdom-ready individuals from their ranks.
I've said it before: a dozen civilians could hijack a plane with their bare hands. The only protection against mass-suicide hijackings like that is to avoid making enemies. Though locking the cockpit door would help.
So the hijackers carried knives on the plane. How you ask? Simple, put it on the bottom of the shoe. Most FAA approved metal detectors DO NOT detect them or they will be ignored if the shoes look like they are steel toed. If the FAA is serious, they will xray shoes of everyone when the planes start up again until they can prove every metal detector works they way they should.
This is well known (I was told about it in about 1987) by a friend who managed to find ways of getting guns through some of the detectors while working as a security guard at an airport.
Call your local FAA FSDO office and ask them about it.
My deepest sympathies to those who have lost friends and loved ones in today's tragedy.
I'd just like to add one for the links: there's an image and video archive up at http://www.sexdwarf.org/wtc that looks like it's being updated reasonably regularly (and no, it is *not* a porn site).
I wish I had mod points.
Jaysyn
There is a war going on for your mind.
Okay, lets say we DO have biometrics on planes? What do we do if the pilots are dead? WHO WILL FLY THE PLANE? Sure, you don't want terrorists to fly it, but SOMEBODY has to.
The September 11 protests at the World Trade Org meeting at Seattle last year were obstensibly about multinationals and globalisations.
Could this attack be just coincidence?
The following link is to Googles Usenet viewer, to a post with the subject '911', in the group alt.prophecies.nostradamus (the post itself has nothing to do with nostradamus).
The person starting the thread claims, at 2001-08-31, that "Something is going to happen tomorrow.", and reasons a bit about why.
Then, at 2001-09-04, he states "Wait 7 days, and then maybe I'll answer this post. You see, I am going away in seven days, and you will not hear from me again".
As far as I am able to see, the dates are correct, meaning the posts aren't made as a prank (please correct me if I'm wrong).
Entire usenet thread
The world will end in 5 minutes. Please log out.
Seriusly, do they expect ANYBODY ever flying with them after this? If a company allows so many fligts to get hijacked on a single day, something is not working as planned.
As I typed that, I realized the potention for such a response (both to my post and the action described). Still, if our technology cannot be exploited to help expose the perps, then what good is it, anyway? BTW, watching W's appearance most recently hasn't restored any confidence I might have had to think that this can be resolved easily...
My Point was: If the "authorities" don't know what they're doing, shouldn't someone step in? I know I'm shorting the NSA in this comment, but I can't help but think they should have some hired "guns".
db
Cig:
ôô
Early in the morning there was a *single* report of a plane down in Colorado. Since then, I've heard nothing: no corrections, no confirmations, no denial.
NORAD is in Colorado, isn't it? Sound slike an obvious target, even if a plane wouldn't do any damage (it's designed to survive nukes).
Anyone know if a plane did go down?
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
First of all, it's extremely unlikely that the Palestinians did this. It's not their style, it's not their scale, and it's not their area.
Secondly, they aren't acting like they've defeated the US, they're acting like one of their allies has struck a considerable blow to one of their enemies - which is true (at the very least, under the 'enemy of my enemy (or their allies) is my friend' philosophy).
Thirdly, they don't have a country. This is the entire point of their terrorism: they want their own country, and the Israeli government/people will not agree to this.
Fourth, the US will not attack Palestine, for several reasons. First, it is Israeli-controlled; second, the vast majority of Palestinians live in the West Bank; third, they couldn't leave the country if they wanted to - this is another reason why they strike against the US/Israel when possible.
--Dan
Knowledge is not necessarily a precursor to opinion. -- Me
No reason the plane can't be equiped to land itself or be guided down via some sort of radio control. The company I've worked for is supposed to have developed a system that will land an F-14 on an aircraft carrier better than any human pilot. Suposedly the pilot's don't want to give up this measure of control, just like they don't want to have systems to auto-eject even if the pilot is unconscious and about to crash. Of course I do work for a defense contractor so maybe people aren't supposed to be talking about this stuff, or it could be a rumor...
Either way, other than expense and retrofitting problems I don't know why we don't do this already, but then again why should this part of the world make any more sense than the rest!
i'm so glad that everyone is now aware of the injustices of the world. as a nation, we'll soon forget this, and you know it's true. in a week it will be "the joneses have a nicer car" again.
look how frail our lives are. anyone, anywhere could die any time. a plane could be headed for your house right now. if only a few residential areas were targeted, think of the social impact. fear, chaos. the officials say "don't panic."
you don't feel so invincible when every car you pass on the road is potential death. but, like all of life's little problems, this can easily be forgotten. the american drug of choice is pathos.
look how safe we are. how much of your life is wasted serving the government? ask the victims.
i'm american. i'm free.
Is it possible thiss could be S11?
With it being Septembetr 11th and all...
And the fact that it was the WTC.
-- eVirtue Dragon
I beg to differ.
Although many may find it a bizarre area of interest, I happen to know a bit about the design of the design of the WTC. The problems were not the shocks, which they withstood, but the fact, that most skyscrabers are not designed to withstand excessive heat.
Read my latest post to see an article about the matter.
"The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
You can hit it here...
I don't subscribe to those sentiments personally, but I have to admit that reading that made me stop, set aside my anger for a moment, and do some serious thinking.
'Life is like a spoonful of Drain-O, it feels good on the way down but leaves you feeling hollow inside'
You know why? Because any passenger on a hijacked plane is going to try to stop the terrorists now.
Before, I think most people would figure, "OK, I'm going to be held hostage, we'll land somewhere, there'll be demands, and if I sit tight, I might survive this."
Now, they'll be thinking more along the lines of "If someone doesn't stop this guy, he'll fly us into a building.." They'll be willing to risk their lives attacking the terrorists, because it's all the chance they have.
A guy with just a knife? When twenty unarmed passengers rush him, how many will he be able to kill before they disarm him? A few, but it's better than everyone dying in a burning wreck.
All movements for social change begin as missions, evolve into businesses, and end up as rackets.
it's the 'date' that's indicative, as the anniversary of the Camp David Peace Accord.
Ohmigod, it's September 18 already? Where does the time go?
read the topic. If you're too stupid to understand what it means, then tell me your address, and I will demonstrate the exact meaning explicitly.
Tens if not hunderds of firefighters died today trying to save everyone. These firefighters are the bravest men alive, running into a burning crumbling skyscraper to save fellow New Yorkers. Say a prayer for them and their families.
It really hit home when 2nd Ave was closed and was just busloads of firefighters and police storming downtown. Manhattan was all sirens and people walking north with stunned faces. There was much confusion, but the police did an amazing job controlling the mahem. They were everywhere that I walked, and all over from what I saw. The national guard is on ever corner of Manhattan at the moment.
They just said on the news, at least 78 police are missing. The firefighters and police know that they are running headfirst into a disaster of the highest danger and personal risk imaginable, and they run in anyway. The run out with those they can save, if they come out at all. They are true heros. The city will mourn their loss, mourn this dammed day forever.
Many of you will find this to be of poor taste, but I translated a Danish article on the technical aspects of the reason why the two towers collapsed. The orignal (in Danish) article is here, and my translation is here
"The number you have dialed is imaginary. Please rotate your phone 90 degrees and try again."
>>This makes me sick. The notion of using nuclear strikes is tantamount to expressing a blatant desire to murder innocent people.
god damn ignorant asshole.
obviously in times of crisis news from the web is useless. it took hours before i could get through to anything.
for now on there is a good ol' fashioned radio living in my cube.
"The direction controls are the same in Nethack as they are in vi." "Yeah, I hardly ever die in vi anymore."
Building 7 also housed NYC's emergency response bunker.
As I already said elsewhere in the thread (and I am not going to repeat myself, who wants to, can read my other posts), it's not at all enough to increase security during boarding. It will be imposible, as you noted yourself, eliminate the danger of terrorists smuggling knives or even firearms (which don't have to be made of metal) onto planes. The thing to concentrate on, is new tougher policies and better trained crew and flight attendants, that will allow them to cope with terrorist acts more effectively. Not just to be able to fight (martial arts, perhaps carrying weapons), but also to have policies in place that will allow them to attack the hijackers, even if this means risking the life of some of the passengers, if that saves the whole plane. This is something a few airlines already do, and no terrorist fucks with them, because they know it would be, basically, futile.
Sorry, I ended up re-telling the same thing again. But I believe it's an important point to make.
Sigged!
They're not armed for the same reasons that guards in max security prisons aren't -- don't let them steal your gun and use it. A terrorist is more likely to be able to get a gun away from you than you are to be able shoot them.
- Michael T. Babcock (Yes, I blog)
photos at adrenalinimages.com of the horror in manhattan
As I typed that, I realized the potential for such a response (both to my post and the action described). Still, if our technology cannot be exploited to help expose the perps, then what good is it, anyway? BTW, watching W's appearance most recently hasn't restored any confidence I might have had to think that this can be resolved easily...
My Point was: If the "authorities" don't know what they're doing, shouldn't someone step in? I know I'm shorting the NSA in this comment, but I can't help but think they should have some hired "guns".
db
Cig:
ôô
Isn't this the perfect use of Gnutella/MojoNation... cooperative, decentralized, distributed filesharing?
I think someone should pick a file sharing app, put all of the WTC content they can find into it, tell people to use it and then let the tool do the work it was built for.
it's not going to stop until you wise up, no it's not going to stop. so just give up.
But at the moment, the two most likely parties appear to be Palestinians or anti-globalization Slashdotters. I really don't believe the IRA would touch this one.
you probably wont even read this, but just so you know, Osama bin Laden is not Palestinian. He was born in Saudi Arabia, but stripped of his citizenship there due to his actions.. he's purely anti-American (I am not sure why, though it's not doubt at least partially due to the USA's foreign policy) and is supposedly based/living in Afghanistan.
Yet another mirror:
http://liquidvortex.net/wtc/
Cheers,
Nick.
Although many previous US targets have been attacked in acts of terrorisim none touch the hearts of people around the world in such a way, this act of terrorism did not only target a military installation or represetative building or person of a country, instead it struck at thousands of civilians in the heart of a major city, no-one even those who may normally criticise the US can help by feeling sympathy for those people and anger that this was even possible, if so many people can be killed in the heart of the current superpower, then what is to stop a similair incident in any other country? Defense against terrorism has proven to be harder than defending against the military might of another nation.
Unlike a normal war there is no sure way to target the enemy in a war against terrorism, but terrorists must live somewhere. This event could be used to rally a global alliance/movement against terrorism, that would aim to prevent any country from being able to harbour terrorists. Harbouring terrorists must be made unattrative to all those countries that harbour them hopefully through peaceful methods (eg. economic embargo/military threats) but only if neccessary a forceful method that minimizes the innocent casualties that happen in nearly any military operation.
Am I being unrealistic in hoping for a peaceful and beneficial result? After today what is realistic? If Tom Clancy had written a book with 4 suicide planes instead of 1 I'm sure it would have been critisized as totally unrealistic.
Of course this is just my 2 cents CDN, but I just hope Bush does not take a quick or unthought revenge which could easily start a war between countries.
Okay, first you find the group/indivdual responsible and put them before a UN/war trial jury. If a country aided in their hiding those responsible, planning or execution of the attack, they should lose ALL access to airplanes/aviation usage for 5-10 years + punitive damages.
Unix is a standard, DOS is a standard, windows XX is not.
September 11th, 2001
Open Letter to US/Americans
I'm not from the US. I'm not from Middle East, nor from any of the parties involved or suspected to be involved in the incidents of this morning.
Although those events are shocking and extremely sad, this letter is not directly about them. It's about what you think about them.
After reading, watching and listening news today, I started to focus on Internet discussion forums. I had reviewed several times the enumeration of facts, so I started to look for the opinion of the PEOPLE.
I was shocked to find (among the pain, grief, and will to help) rage, desire for revenge (I said revenge, which is not the same as justice), and pleas for a war. This letter (I won't hide it) is an intention to change that, through reason. I know you might not change your opinion after reading this, but consider that you have nothing to lose reading it (well, a little time, actually), and I'm saying that you have a lot to win (a slightly better world, if you ask).
First of all, rage won't lead you to a solution, and I think that's plain clear. Even if you think that retalliation is the appropiate response, you probably agree that even retalliation must be planned using brains, not blind rage. If you think about today events, the terrorists that had enough hatred to suicide on a plane are dead (the raging fanatics), while probably the intellectual authors of today crimes (those who use brains) are celebrating their success somewhere else. If you agree that then we have a starting point for discussion.
A lot of people are saying "It's the Palestinians!" "It's the Afgans!" "It's the (Insert your least favorite country here)!". And a whole country is being put at judgement there. But think twice, without the rage. Think it the opposite way. Suppose some US/American hijacks a plane and crashes it over a building in my country. Would you like to have people in my country saying "It was the Americans!"?. Would you like to have the blame put on you? Would you like to return to your home and see that your wife and kids have been murdered by a "retalliation bomber"? Would you like to pay for the crimes someone else comitted?
Well, Palestinians don't like that. Afgans neither. Nor US/Americans. Not Argentinians (if you were wondering where I am from). And it's clear that NOBODY likes it because it's not right, in the more basic forms. It's a feeling so basic that even people with very different visions of the world like you and Palestinians agree on it. And believe: In any country of the world, most people are innocent, harmless people who want to live quietly and in peace, like you. So don't blame a nation. Blame the (probably small) group of people who were behind this, and use the power that your opinion gives to get them found and judged like any criminal. Don't help turn this into a bloodshed where most of the blood belongs to innocent people.
And yes, I'm saying your opinion is power, so use it for good. If you have the democracy you say you have, then that's the way it should be. Terrorism works by using that power you have to turn it to a given goal, that is, turning you into their weapon. Don't be a weapon of the terrorists, don't help them. The way to fight this war it's not to lose our temper, and not start killing people randomly (like some people are starting to think after the outrageous attacks of this morning... remember that war always takes innocent victims). So act quickly, and swiftly, and make sure the responsible for this are punished, but if you start a war against innocent people you'll just gain more enemies than before, and this will never end.
If you believe on what I said, please, spread this message. Consider that the rage and violence I have seen means that the terrorists are already winning. Whoever did this obviously wanted that, so don't give it to them. Keep your power to yourself, and use it to make this a better world
Sincerely,
Daniel F Moisset
dmoisset@arnet.com.ar
"In the City of God there will be a great thunder, Two brothers torn apart by Chaos, while the fortress endures, the great leader will succumb"
"The third big war will begin when the big city is burning"
Nostradamus 1654
Check out the detailed analysis that the Federation of American Scientists worked up on Ramzi Yousef (the bomber who bombed the World Trade Center in 1993 and planned to blow up 11 airplanes on a single day in January 1995. It also illustrates the links between Yousef and Iraq and Saddam.
The title of the piece is
THE WORLD TRADE CENTER BOMB: Who is Ramzi Yousef? And Why It Matters
A especially relevant theory that they advance is that in February 1993, Saddam ordered his agents to try to topple New York's tallest tower onto its twin, and in January 1995, Iraq sponsored an effort to destroy eleven U.S. airplanes in the Far East"
Uh.... I don't think so. Some people are just insane enough to do horrible things like this, no matter what.
Furthermore, Utopia is impossible... one will always have enemies: some people are always looking for trouble.
You should take Mr. Jackson's advice and "Start with the man in the mirror" Turning the gun on him would go a long way to solve an even bigger problem.
When they listed the 4th plane that went down in whatever county, Pennsylvania, they listed it as "whatever CO, Pennsylvania".
Any bets that someone misread it in the heat of news-reporting?
There'd be no point in hijacking a plane over Colorado -- Where would you hit before eveything was grounded? And this damned bastard operation was timed to the second. (Any bets that killing 350 police and firefighters was a node in their plan tree?)
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
I still say we do it, long term, 3-4 day, maybe 2-4 week full content, powerful mirror of best images.
Prove GNU spirit is good for something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if not, I will admit to being one that pushed the idea, and end up leaning on EFF, so donations there (Free me only after all of Elcomsoft are in Russia!
I did read it. One of those uses for picking your own userid on the front page, to keep track of threads you have participated in.
I seem to remember hearing the same. But he has either aligned himself with the Palestinian cause, or gotten some of them to align themselves with him.
He's allowed to not like US foreign policy. So are the Palestinians. But I have a personal working definition of terrorism, "Military action *directed* against innocents." From that perspective, Washington DC contains legitimate targets. New York City does not, except perhaps naval ships anchored there.
Expressing outrage at US foreign policy by killing thousands of ordinary citizens is kind of like expressing disapproval of the Rodney King verdict by looting stores. Wholly inappropriate.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Unfortunately, there were civilian casualties but by itself this fact is not sufficient to label them terrorist attack. The civilians were not more "civilian" than the people killed while travelling in trains bombed by USAF in Yugoslavia or the guard at the Sudanese aspirin factory. None of these US actions was during a war legally declared by the US Congress. Yes, the US should respond to the undeclared war but why the double standard in the news reporting?
I got the date from the news. So if I'm wrong, it's because I didn't look it up to verify. If the 18th is the real date, did they at least sit down together on the 11th?
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Apparently the copy that hit the stands a few days ago contains a picture of the WTC exploding.
Regular psychics? One told a relative of mine to expect a long life. Same relative was run over and killed on the way home from the psychic's studio.
That about sums it up for 99% of them. The other 1% are even more of a worry, the sources of their occasionally-unbelievably-accurate information are highly dangerous.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I still say we do it, long term, 3-4 day, maybe 2-4 week full content, powerful mirror of best images.
My Mirror of some stuff is at http://www.current.nu/
EFF god help me...
Prove GNU spirit is good for something!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
if not, I will admit to being one that pushed the idea, and end up leaning on EFF, so donations there (Free me only after all of Elcomsoft are in Russia!
Just so you know since you apparently have no clue about the Middle East, blaming the Palestinians for the work of Bin Laden is stupid. What others do in your name is not your fault. The Palestinians are a group of people fighting for the right of self-determination. Bin Laden is a millionaire set on plaguing the US for its Middle East policy, which apparently accepts the subjugation of the Palestinian people. People saw one group of cheering Palestinians and drew conclusions. How do you know that those kids didn't spend last night huddled in a corner while Israeli tanks ran through their village with US support? All Arabs are not the same!
Let us expel all of the filthy wogs. Kill them. Expel them. Death to every Muslim.
What about middle-east political sites hosted in the US? Let's nuke ourselves!
Also... if it's so vulnerable, why haven't you attacked them yourself? Are you a coward or just incompetent?
Finally, what are you hoping to achieve? More civilian suffering? More collateral damage? More excuses for nasties to attack the USA? Try this alternative: get a life.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
As I scan the cable television channels, the most real reminder of the disasters today is the black channels that used to be broadcast from One World Trade Center. You may at first feel that I am insensitive or in my own world, but think about it. I see disaster footage on that rectangular screen all the time. Sometimes it's real; sometimes it's not. But what I never see is a bunch of totally black channels. I guess this is similar to the emptiness that will appear to those familiar with the NY skyline, though I'll admit it's nothing as compared to the emptiness felt by those who have lost loved ones.
main(O){10<putchar((O--,102-((O&4)*16| (31&60>>5*(O&3)))))&&main(2+ O);}
LN2 is cool!
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&frame=right& th=54ab4d241c34e0cc&seekm=3b8fd177%40monitor.lanse t.com
Read here, it looks like one of the hi-jackers might have been posting here. Very strange indeed.
Kintanon
Check out JoshJitsu.info for Brazilian Ji
Thank God you express this so poorly. Too bad so many others will express it much better, and win. Oh well, there's always Brazil.
that makes sense but why the heck don't they put a real barrier between the pilots and the passenger area? At least in prisons they have solid walls and bars to keep separation...
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Bush has now said that in our retaliatory actions we will make no distinction between the terrorists and those who harbor them, just as the Serbs did. Yes it's awful. Yes it's tragic. That's the nature of terrorism, both on the parts of the terrorists themselves and those who would eradicate them. But we may well have no choice in the matter if we are to prevent this sort of thing from recurring.
Can we make the world a perfectly safe place? No, of course not. But we can make it clear to anyone who would contemplate killing tens of thousands of Americans that if they were to actually do so, they will -- not might, will -- be made to regret it bitterly, a regret that will be shared by anyone who aids them. That will undoubetdly make terrorists think twice about doing such a thing ever again, and make anyone who might harbor them think three times about it.
Before anyone replies with the kind of puerile ramblings that have been modded up today: of course we will find out for sure who was really responsible before we act. Whatever good can be extracted from what it will take to wipe out the organization responsible -- whichever it may be -- will not come from striking at the wrong targets. Obviously it's not the Palestinians, or the Iranians, and probably not Libya either. But they're partying tonight in Iraq, and there seems to be information implicating Osama bin Laden. I do not doubt, given their recent public statements, that the Afghani authorities will back away from Osama in a moment if presented convincing evidence that he is responsible. They had better. No American wants to make innocent people suffer.
But anyone who willingly harbors terrorists is not innocent.
And the brethren went away edified.
and yet on NPR, their token pilot, interviewed by Terry Gross, said that flying a plane once it's in the sky is easy.
and then I think, that our airport security, has always seemed incredibly lax...
then I remember a story my father told me of a women who met him in the pentagon who had come from abroad with a gun in her purse- and had made it all the way in to see him, through all the "security." It was purely for self-defence of course, but he was shocked.
Am I the only one who thinks these terrorists could have just been thugs who wanted to die. Sure they were probably motivated by some fucked up religion, or other indoctination, but did they really need an evil genius guiding the whole thing?
I have the awful feeling were being fed only what we want to hear from the media. Like we always are.
-
I think destructive MEMES should be ERADICATED, not the people/place.
Americans in general are generous and helpful (although they do tend to approach this with a we-know-better-than-you attitude), almost as helpful as ``us'' Australians* but the same cannot be said for all American businesses.
You might think that I was talking about Microsoft, but I'm talking about companies like General Electric and Standard Oil, who made World War II possible by funding and supporting Reich war-related research and stockpiling. This is not an isolated incident. Given that the terrorists hit a business centre (and apparently tried for another stock exchange as well), rather than entirely political targets there may be a connection.
Your history is spoon-fed. You need some roughage in your diet.
* who invited the Indonesian Army to joint exercises in Australia, gave them a copy of The Bush Tucker Book, did everything short of laying out a red carpet embossed ``Welcome to South Irian.''
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Rebuild
Remember
Revenge
I'm not really a web designer, I just play one on the Internet.
Well this is a bit morbid, but how about suicide devices on the plane?. When the pilot realizes what is going down. He can activate a device that will make the plane uncontrollable. the lives of the few vs the many.
http://us.news2.yimg.com/f/42/31/7m/dailynews.yaho o.com/h/nm/20010911/wl/crash_afghanistan_dc_1.html
I'm not saying I believe this, even though these events were half a world away from sunny old Australia, the images I've seen over the last 14 hours have shocked and disturbed me, but:
I'm amazed that no-one has mentioned the possibility, no doubt to be siezed upon by the more... creative... element of society, that the pentagon attack was a deliberate attack to breach the walls - not to destroy the building, but to physically break the shape of the pentagon.
After all, what conspiracy nut doesn't believe, deep in their hearts, that the pentaGON is actually a pentaGRAM, designed to contain whatever godforsaken Cthulhuesque creature the U.S. government have leashed to serve their wicked ways, etc. etc. Whatever it is, it would be on the loose now, so I'm sure a lot of kooks will be stocking up on tinned food and holy water right about now...
The University of Sydney has a short description of the WTC's structure and offer an explanation for why the towers completely collapsed after being struck. The link: www.civil.usyd.edu.au/wtc.htm
What is the inverse of the Matrix?
Hi,
I'm sending this letter to everybody in my address book. I'm sure everybody knows about the terrorist attacks on our country. What some of you might not know is that people in other countries celebrated the devastating attacks on thousands of lives in our country. This was shown on television.
I have never heard of Americans, or people of any *civilized* country for that matter, celebrating the deaths of so many thousands of *innocent* lives. I wish to point out that these same people--the ones who are celebrating right now--benefit from millions or billions of dollars of American money sent to them as foreign aid. The thought of these scumbags celebrating the deaths of those who support them disgusts me beyond belief. I am writing letters to folks in our state and federal governments, urging them to cut off monetary support for these countries. This will serve two purposes:
1. The money should be used to help those who lost family or friends to the disaster.
2. Cutting off foreign aid to these countries serves as a very mild punishment for their celebrating of the death and destruction in our country. If they celebrate our deaths, let them starve for lack of food and money.
I urge you to write similar letters, and to urge your family, friends and neighbors to do the same. The time has come to help our victims and punish those who would have us slaughtered.
I'm adding this note for posting on Slashdot:
I realize that since the Internet spans the globe, some of you reading this are from those very countries I'm talking about. I'd like to discourage you from bitching and moaning about what I'm saying here. If you celebrated, fuck you. I mean it. If you were not such an animal and scumbag, I urge you to kick the asses of those around you who are.
The SMH Has an article on this at http://www.smh.com.au/news/0109/12/world/world35.h tml
Quote: The Iraqi commentator said that "the explosions at the heart of United States power, in particular the Pentagon, represent a painful slap in the face to American politicians to direct them to put an end to their illegitimate hegemony and their attempts to impose their authority over peoples."
The MyTh - I am a figment of the Imagination - [Im Probably even not here]
Don't mod me down, this is an unconfirmed report from the AFP NEWSWIRE.
Wednesday, September 12 11:04 AM SGT Police intercept truck loaded with explosives in New York
NEW YORK, Sept 11 (AFP) -
Police have arrested two people and have intercepted a truck loaded with explosives on New York's George Washington Bridge, according to an unconfirmed local CBS television report.
"The truck contained enough explosives to blow up the entire span," a television reporter said.
Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik confirmed that "the Port Authority police stopped a van that might have had explosives," but added in remarks to NY1 television that "it is unconfirmed."
The George Washington Bridge links the northern part of Manhattan island with New Jersey and is the only bridge spanning the Hudson River.
If that's the case then this may have been a breach in airport that we (the U.S.) were not prepared for.
the growth in cynicism and rebellion has not been without cause
Problem with the US and quite a few of it's citizens is that we are worldly illiterate.
Most don't know other cultures. Hell most couldn't even locate Afghanistan on a map, let alone spell it.
Agancies of the US have done things that we shouldn't have. Remember what the CIA has done in central america. How about asia? The large body of americans aren't even aware of what their government does behind their back. Does all that excuse what happen today? NO!
But it should temper what actions and thought
that happen in the next few weeks. We should remove the mote from our eyes before we point out the plank in others.
it may have even been the better choice.
I am glad that you phrased it that way. The thing about history is that when considering alternatives, we will NEVER know for sure. We might not have lost a single man in the invasion of Japan, and not dropped a bomb. On the other hand, we might have lost half a million men, and then had to drop the bomb anyway.
We cannot second guess history. It unfolded only one way, and that's the history we are stuck with. Debating it doesn't do any good, because there's just no way to sort out all the interpretations of what happened. Condemning people of good character for making the best choice they could with the information they had isn't fair to those people. And we will in turn want to be judged fairly by history.
Saying that the bombing of Japan was completely unjustified is just as wrong as saying that we absolutely had to do it to win the war. All we know is that Truman and others sincerely believed that it was so, and they made a tough decision. If that decision does not sit well with us in our (as of Sept. 10th) comfortable armchairs, then all we can do is make our decisions better ones.
If tits were wings it'd be flying around.
What is your problem with "BOMB THE FUCK OUT OF EVERYBODY". Perhaps we just quit too early before. We need to do much more bombing.
Before you go and say that, unless you have read the Koran (and I'll admit I haven't either), don't go and say that it's to blame. I can't name a major religion that says in the book "Kill everyone that is different than you to earn my respect".
I'd be more willing to believe that the Arab terrorism is much like the old Christian Crusades (except with car bombs and missles). "We want Palestine back, and we'll kill anyone in our way! We want our Holy Land and to rid it of those Jewish/Chrisian pig-dogs!" Instead of "We'll kill the infidels (namely the Arabs) and win our Holy Land back for our King!"
People pervert the meaning of religion for their own immediate ends. It's not the Koran, it what people are doing in the name of the Koran.
I don't know any God that thinks killing other people in cold blood is a good thing.
Hey. The U S of A sustained casualities.
Major ones. Nobody will stop our response.
The major news broadcasters have agreed to share footage - so I believe it's ok.
I'll upload any video I get to THIS SITE .
Some are from sites above - either way, check them out. I think it's important to get this on CD or other such backup.
This FTP is in cincinnati ohio - so don't expect good speeds from the west coast.
My prayers still go out to everyone.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Since email, IRC, and IM have become so useful to folks in NYC after the cell and landlines died, we decided to turn off our bandwidth gobbling audio streams until the crisis and need passes.
No need to clog things up with entertainment when others need the resource.
We're also encouraging visitors to donate blood too.
-lilmatt from www.tacowagon.com
My prayers go out to all affected by this.
Has anyone ever noticed how with the terrorist groups, or the countries that support them, will ALWAYS refer to their suicide bombers as "soldiers," or "heroes," while when their opponents / enemies are ALWAYS referred to as "murderers?" Palestine and Isreal for example. A Palestinian who walks into a pizza parlor crowded with people is a "patriot" or "hero," while any sort of retalation by Isreal is by "murderers?"
I was channel surfing tonight, came across a BBC re-broadcast, they were interviewing an Arab man (no I don't know who), who was saying this attack was justified because of US "atrocities" in the Middle East. His examples being: supporting Isreal, the Gulf War against Iraq, and the continued bombing of Iraq.
As far as any of that goes, Isreal was created after WWII, Iraq may be debatable, depending on wether or not Kuwait is an ally of the US, although reports of what Hussiens troops did in Kuwait would also qualify as "atrocities."
And before ANYONE DARES to accuse me of being a "racist" or "anti-Arabic" I'm not. I am NOT saying that someone from the Middle East was behind this.
My feelings are however that IF and WHEN the US govmnt has evidence of whoever did this atrocity, they should go after them. I do NOT want to see civilians in whatever place that may be get hurt, and would prefer a "surgical" strike to mass bombing. The perpatrators killed possibly as many as 10000 Americans? Fine. Capture them and re-open Alcatraz just for them, let them ROT for the rest of their life in a 10x10 cell with no windows and no human contact.
Am I angry? You betcha.
In my home town (Detroit) the news was reporting that HUNDREDs of people have been donating supplies to go to NY along with some 30-40 police officers. They had pictures of an entire 50' truck container FULL of bottled water. THAT is what an American does when someone is in need of help. They HELP.
My condolonces to anyone who lost loved ones in the attacks, and my hopes go out to those who are trying to survive in the wreckage.
Jason A.
PS My apologies for beginning to ramble.
Israel has tried this against the Palestinians -- quick, unbalanced retaliation. It has not brought them any peace or freedom from terrorism. I can see no way they will achieve that unless they annilhilate the entire Palestinian people, though blinded by their desire for vengence many Israelis seem to think that the next bit of violence will resolve something.
That is not a path I would wish the US to follow. Justice does not mean pacifism, but anything brutal, disgusting, and horrible -- as you phrase it -- is not justice. If we value domination over justice, then we will eventually reap our rewards. Perhaps we already have.
God help us.
You probably shouldn't be so quick to add Canada to the list of places that like Americans. Many Canadian's hate Americans too, we just put up with them because our economies and fates are so intertwined. Actually, when I was in Japan, there was a lot of American resentment there too, and I've nearly been in a few fights in Europe when people wanted to hit me in bars because they thought I was American.
None of this can condone the horrible things that happened, but maybe Americans should start to wake up and realize that most of the world hates them and start asking themselves why. It is not because they are the most powerful country in the world, but because of their heavy handed policies around the world.
Are you aware of what YOUR government does behind your back? Or do you live in some imaginary country without hidden agendas?
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
I agree that this was to be expected.
Don't get me wrong I will give blood and aid but what was the cause and how do we build a supportive global neighborhood?
For a moment assume the world is causal, that every action has an equal and opposite reaction. Why did this or any act of violence happen?
Think about a neighborhood then scale this to a global community. Start with a population of children who will hopefully grow up some day and still have to live with those kids we were unfair with.
Think of a child who somehow gets most of the toys/food of all the other kids, however it happens.
(The vast majority of economic wealth is in the USA)
Eventually other kids will see what is flaunted and want their toys/food back even if they lost an honest trade/game. That one rich kid can't eat and play with all the toys at once, so why not share it? Richie Rich will have more friends, help the neighborhood, and look like a hero. When the neighborhood grows up those who were helped will return the favors (like Karma).
Over competing causes others to feel cheated and sows seeds of mistrust and grudges.
Recent US international activities display a poor global-neighbor example and go against the generosity they displayed after WWII which turned a disaster into a fresh start for some troubled countries and longstanding grudges:
-not signing the nuclear non-proliferation agreement;
-not dealing with their fair share of the greenhouse gasses and threatening the Kyoto accord (USA is by far the largest global polluter);
-not signing the land mine ban (one of the only countries not to)
-bullying their global neighbors into backing Star Wars and a renewed military buildup;
-continuing to sell tools of war (as much of the world does). Surely these seeds will reap disastrous but not unexpected harvests.
-continue to encourage a foreign policy of aggression (war on drugs, who's source is internal; Iraq, who threatened oil control; and many more examples.)
The US is not unique, I believe people are the same everywhere. However if somebody doesn't initiate an enlightened stance and kill with kindness rather than bullets then the eye for an eye will leave everyone blind. Each individual can make an impact. Encourage your leaders, company, family members, etc to be honest, fair, and generous.
Eventually US travelers could even wear their flag internationally without ridicule, threats, and embarrassment, which is currently not the case.
Americans: watch international news and find out what your neighbors think. Plus you'll finally get some decent news coverage.
Here inn the States it will have to be some soret of law enforcement, like the sky-marshals arm of the federal marshall service. Using the military violates the "Posse Comotatas (sp?)" statute.
Skip the fact that the existance of federal cops are not an enumerated power, thus a violation of the constitution itself... hey... maybe ya got a point...
Eve Fairbanks says I drive a hybrid!LOL
This simply bullshit. It's a heart-rendng story that happens to have little to do with the details of the events.
This is the result of a small group of very determined enemies - Period.
Nothing to do with US openness. US airport security isn't all that "open" in anyway - it's better than a lot of nations and has stopped a lot of attacks. It's still fairly cheap - airport security guards aren't high paid or anything.
Russian and even Saudi Arabia has had hijackings - these places aren't marvels of openness. Chechnayans have done all sorts of other stuff in the Soviet Union and they didn't even have government backing. The US pulled together the Taliban to fight USSR backed troops and so they had lots of clever tricks. Too bad they've turned against the US huh?
From what I've seen, CNN has the clearest footage of the second plane crashing into the WTC. It's footage of the exact side of the building that the plane hit... you can even hear the sound of the plane engine in the background as it approaches its fate.
e .h its.cnn.med.html
The streaming video from CNN can be found here:
http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/2nd.plan
If someone has a downloaded copy of this, PLEASE email me at changeling@yahoo.com with a location where I can download it! I want to make sure that I have a copy of this footage... what's sure to be an important part of history.
I dont care what nationality ya are... and what feelings you have towards the US... the loss of human life should strike a chord with all humans... this, like all acts of mass murder, is a true atrocity...
From what I've seen, CNN has the clearest footage of the second plane crashing into the WTC. It's footage of the exact side of the building that the plane hit... you can even hear the sound of the plane engine in the background as it approaches its fate.
e .h its.cnn.med.html
The streaming video from CNN can be found here:
http://www.cnn.com/video/us/2001/09/12/2nd.plan
If someone has a downloaded copy of this, PLEASE email me at changeling@yahoo.com with a location where I can download it! I want to make sure that I have a copy of this footage... what's sure to be an important part of history.
I dont care what nationality ya are... and what feelings you have towards the US... the loss of human life should strike a chord with all humans... this, like all acts of mass murder, is a true atrocity...
For Canadian French people:
Pour les Canadiens Francais:
See http://radio-canada.ca/nouvelles/God save our Queen, and Heaven bless The Maple Leaf Forever!
They had business as usual, but knocked off very sharpish.
It's been a long-cherished desire for the Pope to control Jerusalem. The EEC/UC would back him (EEC == Europe Entirely Catholic) too. This is unlikely to be the excuse he needs, but wait... there's probably more...
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Economic domination.
Oh yeah you are right, we are so bad, giving jobs to people and selling them shit they don't have to buy.
facing an opponent who has the money
The reason this country has money is because US citizens (free and slave) busted their asses for over two centuries. We eliminated the evils of slavery and became even richer.
owns the world legal system
And if we really did own the legal system world round, then the Koreans and the EU would not be investigating Micosoft and Intel would they? The world court wouldn't have also decided against the US after the Panama invasion, if what you are saying is true.
The reality is that we have been attacked by fringe Islamic religious fanatics, just like *most* of the terrorist attacks against the US in the last 5 years. If anything, our being allied with Israel (another country that doesn't like us?) has contributed more than anything.
Not content to leave the villainy to the terrorists, Microsoft decided it'd be a good time to exploit the situation. http://slate.msn.com/code/explainer/explainer.asp? Show=9/11/2001&idMessage=8270, obviously an MSN site, poses the question, 'How Good Were the World Trade Center Pilots?' and then answers that it would take an experienced 757/767 pilot to fly aircraft into a building about the size of the aircraft itself. Along the way, however, it mentions
>
"Flight Simulator" links to http://www.microsoft.com/games/fs2000/default.asp, just in case you wanted to PURCHASE MS Flight Simulator 2000! Presumably so that you yourself may experience firsthand the difficulty of killing tens of thousands of people...
I've been warned twice over the years about carrying my normal knife on the plane. I think it will be packed in baggage from now on.
Never underestimate a trained person with a knife and a keen willingness to use it. A steak knife will do.
I think success for these hijackers was their willingness to kill people. Pilots, anyone who resisted -- gone. It was not the threat of a knife that forced a pilot to fly where he didn't want to go -- it was the use of a knife.
>Just so you know since you apparently have no clue about the Middle East
Guilty as charged. I have no clue about the Middle East.
But I think I am at least as well informed as most Americans, and I believe I have a more open mind than most.
So YOUR job is to try and educate me. The news media doesn't help a heck of a lot, and I try to listen to the BBC or NPR for a better balanced picture. (as opposed to the ratings war of network news)
I hear many times of the enlightenment of the Moslem religion, and how they kept the candles of civilization burning during the dark ages with mathmatics, and all that. I also hear that the Moslem religion teaches respect and equal rights for women.
But that's not what I hear or see on the news.
By the same token, I certainly hope you don't base your opinion of Christianity on abortion clinic bombings and the mess in Northern Ireland. I think that at the moment, it's far more enlightening to look at the hours-long lines in front of the blood donation clinics.
I wish PBS woud run (or rerun, now is timely) some sort of documentary on the history and development of the Moslem religion.
I mentioned it once before... More could be done for the Palestinian cause by making an "Unbearable Lightness of Being" type movie, and setting it in the West Bank. Remember that the juxtposition of Three Mile Island and the movie "The China Syndrome" pretty much killed nuclear power construction in the US. In the US, images and concepts have power, violence just makes us mad. You want us to change, try getting our sympathy. You want our sympathy, try helping us understand your plight. But attacking only helps us understand your hatred. (I'll accept that this isn't you personally, but just the general point...)
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Hi,
I run a news portal site called NewsIsFree. I put together a page showing all headlines about the events, updated every 15 minutes.
Haha! American pretzels!!
Juln
I wish your mother worked on the 99th floor of the
WTC. You can pick which tower, I really don't care. Just try and think before you speak, you retarded fuck.
Let us form a new international organization against terrorism. It could be associated to the UN, and be called global defense initiative against terrorism (GDI). I'd love to see some Orcas, esp. the Orca bombers from Tiberian Sun...
Kiwaiti
Member of the Legion Of Microsoft Haters
Several folks from alt.prophesies.nostradamus have contacted the FBI about it. No need to fill their queue with redundant information.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
I have no expertise in the area aside from movies and specials on the learning channel, but did the collapse of the buildings look like the structure giving way due to the plane crash or a planed implosion? Any demo experts out there with observations?
Blaze a trail to the New World
Kiwaiti
Member of the Legion Of Microsoft Haters
I heard there was a fire at the national mall near the white house. or that a bomb went off there.
I have a picture of the fire from an early news report, but i have heard nothing thus far.
if you have any new info on that. please send it to johnny_aio2@yahoo.com
Thanks,
-Johnny
simple solution.
Back in the olden days you had 1 armed man on every plane. we need to go back to having someone on every plane with a nice high power weapon. first sign of trouble shoot the bastard.
That should also stop most of the idiots on aircraft.
Secondly.. replace the cockpit door with a bulletproof version, and install CS gas dispensers into the passanger cabin. hijack? fill the rear of the plane with CS or BZ gas and land.
there are solutions, we as americans are way to damned lazy to impliment them.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
While I respect what you say, I will be blunt. When you have been so attacked, when you have friends describe to you what it is like to listen over the phone while the colleagues burn alive, then have the line go silent never to ring again, when you have friends who have died en mass, then you may speak to me of turning the other cheak.
We will use our power to create a better world, by exterminating the vermin who are responsible for this atrocity, along with anyone and everywhen who gave them aid or comfort. We may feel guilty afterwords, and will certainly be an easy target for a world with an uneasy conscience that will cry loudly against our actions while secretly breathing a sigh of relief that someone did what needed to be done, but in the end the world will be a better place, and those that did this will cease to exist.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
You will be transported to a gay brothel in Cairo, where fifty Egyptian and Sudanese queers will fuck you up the ass without the aid of lubrication.
Just wait and see how the government overreacts. Bush is already using this to increase his defense budget and now the FAA will enact some silly security proceedures. Not that all are silly, just that what was already in place seemed to have worked, it's just that it never dawned on them that a plane would be used as a weapon.
I remember that one guy hijacked a plane with a vile of water. He said it was nitro glycerine. The only way to prevent this is to secure the controls of the airplanes. That is it. If hijackers knew that the passengers would NOT let them take control, could this even happened?
Doubtful. Too bad the proceedures that will be put in place will do more damage to the economy then as already been done by adding hours and days onto mail and passenger deliveries.
IMO.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
I recall one talking head on CNN yesterday, referring to the Palestinians cheering and passing out candy, "we need to remember who these people are. They are enemies of America". The American people, indeed the whole world, will indeed remember this.
Wanted: One witty yet thought provoking
Reading through the majority of the highly moded posts, I was disturbed by the level of criticism the US is getting for this incident, and IT WAS THE ONE ATTACKED. This brings to mind an editorial written by the late Canadian Journalist, Gordon Sinclair...
.. the Truman Policy .. all pumped billions upon billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now, newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent war-mongering Americans.
... and safely home again. You talk about scandals and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everyone to look at. Even the draft dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, most of them ... unless they are breaking Canadian laws .. are getting American dollars from Ma and Pa at home to spend here.
... as they will... who could blame them if they said 'the hell with the rest of the world'. Let someone else buy the Israel bonds, Let someone else build or repair foreign dams or design foreign buildings that won't shake apart in earthquakes.
[QUOTE]
The Americans
...and this Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least-appreciated people in all the earth.
As long as sixty years ago, when I first started to read newspapers, I read of floods on the Yellow River and the Yangtse. Who rushed in with men and money to help? The Americans did.
They have helped control floods on the Nile, the Amazon, the Ganges and the Niger. Today, the rich bottom land of the Misssissippi is under water and no foreign land has sent a dollar to help. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy, were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of those countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States.
When the franc was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.
When distant cities are hit by earthquakes, it is the United States that hurries into help... Managua Nicaragua is one of the most recent examples. So far this spring, 59 American communities have been flattened by tornadoes. Nobody has helped.
The Marshall Plan
I'd like to see one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplanes.
Come on... let's hear it! Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tristar or the Douglas 107? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all international lines except Russia fly American planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or women on the moon?
You talk about Japanese technocracy and you get radios. You talk about German technocracy and you get automobiles. You talk about American technocracy and you find men on the moon, not once, but several times
When the Americans get out of this bind
When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose. Both are still broke. I can name to you 5,000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble.
Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.
Our neighbours have faced it alone and I am one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.
I hope Canada is not one of these.
[/QUOTE]
The interesting thing about this editorial is that it was written in 1973, and yet it still rings as true as it ever did. I personally am proud to have Canada as our neighbor, and am thankful for those who live there that feel our pain. People here have knocked them as cowards, but I know, and they know, that the real coward is the one who stikes anonymously from a distance.
r13
It's your job to educate yourself. I base my knowledge of Christianity on the fact that I am a Christian born and raised in the middle of Arkansas. I base my knowledge of the Middle East and Islam from READING. Pick up a book, skip the movies.
Contemplate the founding of Israel. Where did it come from? Why did it form? What was there before? What happened to the people that were there before? The answers are important. European and American anti-Semitism combined with disregard for the "Palestinians" led to the creation of Israel. Israeli policy and racism combined with Arab anger and racism led to a powder-keg. Both sides are culpable.
Oppressed people fight back. Both Israel and Palestine believe they are oppressed, as indeed they are.
After hearing more information, I agree that you are correct.
Security through promiscuity is no better than security through obscurity.
Even more annoying was that in the Muslim community here in sydney there were some tasteless people dancing in the Streets and celebrating. (Some of us were not impressed)
The MyTh - I am a figment of the Imagination - [Im Probably even not here]
Many other big names were and presumably are involved in such deals.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I'd like to say I have a whloe new respect for them.
Sorry, but this mirror is now down...
Nothing to see here