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Two Handfuls Of Handhelds
rgarcia writes: "CNET has this story: Panasonic announced on Monday its first handheld computer, the Toughbook 01, which is designed to complement its notebook line of the same name. The consumer electronics maker has been selling into a niche in the notebook market by focusing on durable laptops that can withstand the shock of a fall and can resist moisture, dust and scratches. I know Ive dropped a few in my day. Damn things are fragile. Cool design, though I dont know if its actually better." And an unnamed reader points out that DALinux now has hardware available: "They claim it is Palm compatible, but it won't run palm apps - so what 'Palm compatible' means is anyone's guess. But it is a cool gadget, it runs Linux, and, most importantly, it is affordable." "Palm compatible" better at least mean painless address-book import.
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"Palm compatible", in this case, means "sue me! sue me harder!"
My blog: http://www.seebs.net/log/ --- My iPhone/iPad app: http://www.seebs.net/seebsfrac/
From the pictures of the PowerPlay III PDA (claims to be "Palm IIIxe Compatible") it looks like maybe it's compatible in that it looks the same.
Seriously though, it looks like they've created a very small embedded OS based on the Linux Kernel, and written apps that are approximately similar to those available on the Palm. It also looks like they're the same processor and hardware design, so it's quite probably Palm-OS compatible - they're just running their own OS instead.
There are Screen Shots available for apps that look remarkably like the screens on my Handspring running PalmOS.
It's compatible with the Palm on your hand, not the Palm on NASDAQ.
Well, that's not at all Palm Compatible, but I am assuming that they mean it can sync with stuff that is written to sync with palm software.
The consumer electronics maker has been selling into a niche in the notebook market by focusing on durable laptops that can withstand the shock of a fall and can resist moisture, dust and scratches.
It's about time!. The lesson of Palm OS was that the functionality of an Apple ][ was enough for most people. A simple spreadsheet, messaging system, contacts and a notepad are a lot of what makes a computer useful. Bundle that in a low overhead package and make it durable and you've got a winner - what mobile professionals don't need is 300Mhz of super high color whiz-bang screen saver action that can dance along to their portable MP3 collection.
The value of a robust and simple computing platform over a feature-clogged overpriced china shop of a notebook has been obvious to me for a while. Thank goodness industry is getting the picture.
I found a review of the Palm clone... It seems decent, but not any more. If some of the apps get better, it might work for the vast majority of Palm users who need only a datebook & never install any extra apps (& therefore want it cheap).
I'm a bomb regardless
My guess -- if it fits in your hands, its 'palm compatible.'
Hell, I'm eating with my new 'palm compatible' spoon right now!
Untill I can write on it as fast as I can on paper, untill I can trust it not to fail as much as paper (including being dropped), and the price point is more reasonably, I really don't see how I can justify the price of any PDA... Sure, checking flights wirelessly is cool, but I can do it on the cell phone for far less money now.
Well, perhaps it's similar to Agenda Computings VR3 that I own. It's palm compatible in the sense that I can send stuff easily back and forth using IR.
Coding:
I hope that it just 'looks' like palmOS, because PalmOS is way harder to code for than my VR3. but it'd be nice to run palm apps.
Pandora
For God's sake, please give it up. Fear it no less than the sensual passion, because it, too, may take up all your time and deprive you of your health, peace of mind and happiness in life.
The more you know, the less you understand.
My guess is that they bought the hardware fire sale from Palm Inc. as Palm's write off on inventory with the condition that they cannot run Palm OS ?
here is yet another sign of the time, the Matsushita/Panasonic's of the world, don't jump into markets unless their market intelligence tells them there's real money to be made there...the overhead of these MegaCorps is so high, "niche" markets are just too expensive for them to play around in...
SO, the handheld market has just rec'd a ***BIG*** validation as to its future prominence and viabliity.....
OTOH, PALMOS just got ***ANOTHER*** kick in the butt, i've been alternating between my Vx and my iPaq lately and WinCE has come a long way...(yes, CE took the same type of hit, but CE is only a fractional market player at this point, 12 mos from now?????)
ANOTHER MARKET INDICATOR; just how about those Panasonic desktop PC's and Windows Notebooks, eh?
seems like Panasonic has placed its bet...and PalmOS and WinCE were nowhere to be found....
if anyone takes on Wintel, it will be the Global 100 Megacorps...Panasonic, NEC, NTT, et al...and it will be in a space like handhelds were this is no dominant giant already there???
with Linux here and quickly evoling as a mid-range platform, ANYBODY'S paid-per-license OS is IMHO, over the mid-to-long term a "wasting asset" in mid-range enterprise computing (the desktop PC is a ho' 'nother story)......
Ten quid, she's so easy to blind. And not a word is spoken...
Given that spending literally about twenty seconds on the website revealed that their OS runs on a Palm (see http://www.linuxda.com/store/index.html), I think it's a reasonable assumption that you can also upload (albeit with shady legal reprecussions) the Palm OS onto their system. Thus, their handheld is Palm-compatible in the same way that my FreeBSD box is Windows-compatible: the hardware is identical.
From my limited experience (mostly playing with pagers at comp-usa), keyboards like this are incredibly annoying to use. Maybe I just have really stubby fingers, or bad aim (if using a stylus/pencil) but I find myself frequently pushing the wrong key, or multiple keys. Not to mention the extra time all that attempting to type on those things uses.
Does anyone have a device with a keyboard like this and actually find it useful?
looks like MS was right, Linux is Anti-American :)
It has a Motorola Dragonball processor, so it looks like "Palm compatible" means same CPU. My iPaq uses Flash ROM just like my CD burner so I guess they are compatible with each other. If anyone can tell me how to burn CD's on my iPaq I'd really appreciate it.
I've dropped my IIIxe a total of 12 times, from 1 foot to 15 feet (scaling a fence :)). Its gone into "self destruct" mode (cover flies off, batteries fly everwhere, battery cover takes a long trip), but no permament damage (screen is still fine, no cracks). I would call that rugged.
Well, someone is clearly not an obsessive PDA geek.
Being one myself, however, I'd wager both of my shoes that "PalmIIIxe-compatible" means the body of the device works with III/VII-series peripherals (PalmPix, PPK(ooh), maybe even the various palm robots). Presumably, then, there is also the same kind of serial port. I think this is an excellent move on the manufacturer's part.
I'd like to note also that in my far from humble opinion, the IIIxe remains the best PalmOS device made by Palm.
Karma: T-rexcellent.
Research in Motion's Blackberry (950 and 957) are designed to never break. I throw mine against the wall all the time to show people (who all think I'm insane) and they don't have a scratch.
A handheld Commodore 64 would actually be pretty cool. I could easily miss a few subway stops playing Fort Apocalypse or MULE or ...
Has anyone heard of vice running on a handheld?
You have got to be kidding
This is why nerds cant pick up in public...
that's php-Nuke ... which is, in and of itself, a violation of the GPL, as the "author" stole most of the code from a gpl set of scripts called thatware
Mooniacs for iOS and Android
The LinuxDA's Palm compatability refers to hardware, not software. I assume that means you can use Palm accessories such as those cool folding keyboards.
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
your Outlook address book from a Windows CE device much more easily. Windows CE devices seem to be attracting far more attention than other platforms. Try Windows CE and C what you have been missing.
Come on. The reason this thing says it is compatible is because they want you to notice that it has 2 meg of flash upgradeable ROM. So, find a 3XE ROM, flash it, and you have a ~$90 palm pilot.
I'm not sure that $90 is the correct price point for it but 8megs isn't bad.
I really don't understand Panasonic's stance on selling these handhelds to consumers. Why would it cost them any more to allow consumers to buy this thing (not that I want a $1k PDA) Is that the only reason? The fast that no reasonable consumer (and I know we have some of the unreasonable kind here on slashdot) would pay that price when palms, handsprings, etc sell for so much less and are fairly close to being just as durable?
Agenda VR3: 16MB Flash, 8MB RAM, MMU $249.00
Agenda has an active developer community, so the software is actively getting better pretty quickly. Does the PowerPlay have any developer program?
I want more RAM and/or flash for my Agenda, the PowerPlay has much less. So the PowerPlay III isn't going to fill the same niche as my Agenda. But the PowerPlay website says the Flash is expandable, but gives no details.
I'd like a durable, small, low power embeddable Linux device with a display. Can you connect the PowerPlay to your network and also use some other I/O ports? The Agenda is pretty I/O limited, it also doesn't have a spot for external power (cut a dowel into fake AAA batteries ...).
Of course, I'm a little hesitant to push that point so much. Sounds far too much like not-so-distant claims from Microsoft that if a whitebox shop didn't pay for a Windows license, they were obviously intending to pirate Microsoft products.
I got a chance to play with a ToughBook at work, CEO has one (it's good to be the king =). Its kinda chunky, supposedely you can stand on top of it when it is closed. The touchpad feels a little low res. Pretty quick though. And it had a CDPD modem with antenna built in, kinda slick.
My iPaq holds up ok. From what I've seen the screens get scratched quite a bit. I made screen covers cheap using templates from PocketPCPassion.com and some transparencies from the supply closet (gross misuse of company resources? better post anonymously!).
I believe when they say Palm compatible, it means you can flash it with PalmOS and it'll work ! :) ...
l mClone.htm ... which is manufactured by PC-Chips .. see this link.
This device looks just like the one mentioned in this article: http://www.rojakpot.com/Other_Articles/Rumours/Pa
I can put windows 95 on my pII and my pentium 166, but I can't put windows 2000 on my pentium 166.
If A implies B, that does not imply that B implies A.
Wheeeee
It's obvious to me - and maybe it's been said but not properly moderated. The compatibility is of a physical nature. That is to say, the unit will fit into a wallet made for the palm IIIxe, or a belt clip for the palm IIIxe, etc.
Being an owner of a palm IIIxe, and spending much too long searching for a good case, made me somewhat close to this fact, so it is actually a good selling point to know that there are cases out there to protect and tote yer handheld in. (although the one pictured is... ugh... seems rather unusable)
cyn, free software and *nix operating systems enthusiast.
But if you paid $2000 for a laptop, or $300 for a PDA, wouldn't you take care of the damn thing? I know shit happens, but if it costs 2 large, some, "extra precautions" would probably be in order. . .
1q2w3e4r5t6y7u8i9o0pqawsedrftgthyjukilo;p'azsxdcf
I'd venture to guess that they have bought the guts of the Palm IIIxe's and put their own plastics around it. Doesn't it say it's Palm IIIxe compatible? They should have said "hardware compatible" so people here wouldn't freik out.
Looks like there are a few sane ones hanging here.
;/
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
...means that their OS will run on a Palm. From their website:
"We are proud to announce the introduction of our Linux DA O/S v1.0 DB for Motorola Dragonball CPU platform..."
However, apps written for Palm won't run on their PDA anymore than Windows apps will run on a Linux PC.
mea culpa....i wearnt kleer......
i meant the latest incarnation of CE, V4 + PocketPC 2002 specification...v3 is (actually, can be depending on what you select) pretty stripped down by comparison....
WinCE V3 is relatively/roughly comparable to 2nd Generation PalmOS and certainly doesn't have the bells and whistles of PocketPC 2002...
SORRY!
... but on their site I read: "6-8 weeks for delivery".
My guess is that they don't have hardware available yet and are really getting pre-orders.
Or they're based on Venus.
The Slashdot hype-hyping machine in action, once again.
If the design of the software is to the same standard as the website - annoying popup windows and horrible flashing messages - it is not going to be much use!
Anyway they don't ship to the UK so that counts me out.
"I deny nothing, but doubt everything." Lord Byron
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Hell, I'm eating with my new 'palm compatible' spoon right now!
No, no no. Didn't your parents show you? You are not supposed to eat with your spoon in the palm of your hand. That requires that you grip it with a fist. You're supposed to hold it just in the fingers with the handle resting in the groove between your index and middle finger and the thumb firmly anchoring it against the index finger.
Sorry. Couldn't resist. I know. I'll get modded down into oblivion.
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
I agree with you, but also remember that any device you wear or carry around with you constantly needs to be much more rugged than most of today's devices are. The laptop needs to be more rugged than a desktop, but since it's usually in a pretty well padded case, it doesn't need to be nearly as rugged as a cell phone. People take them everywhere they go, and expect them to be able to handle a fall once in a while. The same should be true for PDAs. If they are advertised as "pocket sized" or wearable, people will take that to heart.
GreyPoopon
--
Why is it I can write insightful comments but can't come up with a clever signature?
Those Symbol Palm based barcode machines are pretty damn tough. But here I have a hard time seeing the value in a $1000 PDA except for the most specialized industrial or military/law enforcement preprogrammed purposes. Sure all that 'throw it off the roof and run it over with the patrol car' shit is neat-o and I'd love a waterproof, shockproof EMP resistant that can operate in subzero temp survive a three story fall and a battery leak but a thousand bucks ??????
Holy bulletproof little black book Batman !!!
Win2k actually runs on a P166. Slowly, w/32 MB RAM. Though, disabling excess services and tweaking the hell out of it makes it "usable."
Hey look - they have an 'arm' clock. That sounds cool. They should put in an analog clock also though.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Any luck on a p100 48 mb RAM yet?
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
I just threw mine against the wall to try it out (and I didn't even throw it that hard) and now it has a crack on the top corner of the screen!
Karma: NaN
I have Win2K on a 400MHz system and it really is nothing special. With a good SCSI disk subsystem, Win2K might be okay on an old computer, but I wouldn't have high expectations for it.
Healthcare article at Kuro5hin
Why? Why not let the whole world share the joy
of this nice toy? Now that it's still cheap?
"Panasonic will be using Microsoft's Windows CE 3.0, not Pocket PC."
They're bringing out a new device with an old OS. Not too bright.
That means it will fit in your palm with little modification.
AC's cheerfully ignored
Sure, but things happen. I had a Visor (palmOS) that fell to the concrete while I was snapping the cover back on. I had been running and my hands were too sweaty. That didn't happen to break it, but it could have. Same one a year later I did manage to break. I had it out to turn off an alarm. I didn't put it back on the coffee table, but left it on the floor instead. The dog came over with a toy and we played a while, and I managed to put my knee on it. Oops, $80 to repair the screen.
Oh, that doesn't count the time I fell in a hot tub, but I didn't happen to have the PDA on me, just the cell phone...
If you have the thing with you every day for a large part of the day, it is going to be in a tad bit of danger now and again. It is nice if they are either rugged enough to handle it, or cheap enough to fix/replace when they do get killed.
Plus, I would love a supper rugged laptop, I could take it into the hot tub and read (photography) news while working out the day's stress (I wouldn't want to read the other kind of news...it increases stress).
Check out AbiWord.
Can you imagine a Beowolf cluster of THESE!
I flashed my Palm IIIxe over the weekend with the demo version of LinuxDA. And it sucks.
The user interface is horrid. Very cumbersome, very unnatural. The selecting of drop-down items is very un-palm-like. The applications have a certain level of lameness. They need to fix all of these things.
I also emailed the development guys over at LinuxDA and asked them if they supported a shell environment, telnet, ethernet, TCP/IP, ftp, http... etc.
Guess what...?
He said the didn't have it right now. None of it. However, they told me that they are working on a release that has all of the major TCP/IP protocols as well as an ethernet stack, and possibly a compiler. And yes, a shell also.
So my observation is this: LinuxDA sucks right now. The only real benefits to Linux are its stability, and the ability to 'tweak it how you want'.
With LinuxDA, you get neither. You basically get a "Palm-like" device that is cumbersome to use at best... with no ability to tweak it or do any kind of networking.
I'm running 2K Advanced Server on a P166 with 80 MB RAM; it's not terribly fast, but it works.
on the ILlinois State Police's transition to a wireless solution in their cars. They're all using Panasonic Toughbooks. Unfortunately, the current online issue is last month's, so Oct. won't be out for a little while. (But in any case it's a great magazine. If you want to stay on top of how companies are using cutting edge products in real world situations they have some great writeups.)
Have fun: Join D.N.A. (National Dyslexics Association)
Yesterday I dropped my unprotected first generation iBook onto concrete. I did not grip it as well as I should have and it slipped from my grasp, dropping about 3-4 feet and landing rather abruptly, with a disturbing crash, onto the concrete sidewalk. It had been in sleep mode. When I picked it up and opened the case it woke up and worked just fine, aside from a slight marring on the case. Durability is good.
--- What?
My questions, their replies:
:P
> I want to know if it's PalmOS compatable, in case I don't like
> linux on it for any reason. And by Palm IIIxe Compatible, I
> assume it means I can run any PalmOS application/game in it?
By Palm IIIxe compatible, we mean hardware compatible, not software
compatible; therefore, you will not be able to run any Palm OS applications
or games on the PowerPlay III PDA.
> Also, how long is the battery life, and will Pure Energy
> Alkaline Rechargables work well in it? (They seem to work well in
> everything else I've ever tried)
The battery life depends on the usage of the PDA; however, the average life
is approximately 1 month. You need to use 2 AAA batteries; it does not
matter if these batteries are rechargeable or not, so the Pure Energy
Alkaline Rechargables should be fine.
> is it back lit, or am I going to be unable to use it in the
> dark?
Yes, it is back lit.
> Is the screen black/white only, or is there grey shades as well?
> (and do Palm apps expect grey shades?)
The screen is black and white only.
**** Ok, so they skipped the ()ed part, what's the answer? ****
> As for your return policy, is the 30 days from the day I receive
> it to the day I call you about returning it, or do I not have
> all 30 days to use it?
The 30-day return policy begins the day we ship the product to you, and
from that date, you have 30 days to return the product.
> Waht does the 1 year warenty encompase? Lost stylus'? I guess I
> want to know the limitations more than the benefits
The 1-year warranty includes parts and labor. The warranty does not
include the LCD and touch screen, and the case (hardware).
> How is the stylus stored?
The stylus is stored similar to the way it is stored on a Palm handheld.
> Is the screen the normal PDA size, such that normal screen guard
> sheets will work on it?
The screen is the normal PDA size, and normal screen guard sheets will fit.
> It's hard to tell in the pics, but does the carrying case seal
> shut with velcro, or will it always be flapping open?
The carrying case seals shut with velcro.
> And most importantly, is a student discount possible? lol.
A student discount is currently not available; however, it is definitely
something we will take into consideration for the immediate future.
No, it runs Windows CE 3.0.
(unless you work couple of weeks and install Linux on it).
Check before you post.
Anonymous Osama Bin Coward
Hey, Psion Teklogix (http://www.psionteklogix.com) has been doing Industrial handheld computers for almost 20 years and their newest models are 802.11b compliant.
Panasonic only rates to a 4' drop. Psion Tekliogix's stuff is rated for 6'.