My favorite: The "You're not perfect so shut up" defense.
Yeah, things are wonderful, its just about impossible in this society to buy things that are not made in sweatshops, or were not manufactured in an environmentally destructive way.
We have only had this "free-trade" crap for twenty years or so, before that everything was heavily regulated, lots of tarrifs. All of our real economic growths and prosperity (for everyone) occured before this free-trade crap became a religion. Now, its all about profits (to stock-holders) and a huge increase in income-disparity (less than 1% of americans have 40% of the assets in this country). For the last 20 years, real ecnomic progress has stopped, real (time/interst adjusted) wages have fallen.
They got tear-gas because they refused to follow a curfew designed to keep them from expressing their objection to a huge scam that is stealing our freedom and the sovereignty of all nations. Step out of line, and there is a cop with a truncheon & and smile.
Its a group of bureaucrats, who get to make political and economic decisions for you. You do not get a say in who they are or how long they serve. You do not get a say in their policies. You are a serf. This is like Saxony, circa the 780s. Forgive me, but I like things like liberty, freedom and democracy. These guys are only accountable to multinational corporations, not to the people who's lives they effect.
Besides, when someone proposes something new, I think it is the responsibility of the proponents of the new idea to prove their concept is better.
Most list companies (as we call them) are receptive to individual requesting removal, there aren't that many.
This is true. Lots of annoying DBs and snailmail spam, etc have opt-out procedures. They either have 800 numbers, webpages, etc, someone (hint, hint) should get a listing together, and post it somewhere. If you know an opt-out, post it.
Ok. I hereby now grant Bruce Perens, the status of SuperHuman!
By my fiat*, he can no longer make mistakes, his position if far too important for that kind of thing. He is no longer allowed to discuss his ideas with friends/co-workers/etc. He must only speak The Utter Truth of the Matter. He must be better than you or me could ever hope to be.
There is nothing in his proposal that is even vauguely realistic. Who issues the liscense, how are the charges rated, any geek with linux+DSL is an ISP, who manages it. Plus he wants to regulate the advertising, so content is seperate, pay extra to your ISP, and magically all the adverts disappear. Are websites supposed to get a percentage of the extra money paid to the ISP to make up for the advertising. It's nuts. It is totally against how the web has worked since it began. Could you get an Internet license from the Cayman islands with a fake ID and a big wad of cash? I hope his "...tiny office..." keeps getting smaller, and he disappears into some kind of time-space rift. Guy's gone senile. Considering the wackyness W3C has done to the HTML stanards, I hope this is not who he thinks could set this up?
1...... In fact, the code would be more available and see more widespread use under a non-GPL license.
You seem to think that any use is a good use. I could 'use' a bound print-out of it to hit you in the head, you probably wouldn't like that. People using the GPL have decided that certain uses are counter productive.
2......... Furthermore, if the programmer contributes to one of the FSF's "GNU" projects, the situation is even worse. He or she must sign over all rights to the code; it bears the FSF's copyright, not his.
Well duh, you're GPL'ing your code. Signing over your rights is how you make sure everyone can always use/extend it. Do you want to GPL code, have others submit patches, help you work on it, etc, then suddenly you decide to declare you're removing the GPL, and now it's your personal property again. I don't think so.
As far as recognition, I've seen tons of code, with comments like, hey this is mine, if you have questions/comments email them to whoever@where.ever.org blah blah blah.
This leaves only one thing:
3. To prevent the code from being used by programmers who publish commercial and/or closed source software.
You are half-right. There is nothing in the GPL that says your software cannot be commercial, have you ever heard of Redhat? Ever hear about its IPO? The point is to make sure the code is always free, and if someone makes a product, their improvements are available to the community, BECAUSE THEY BUILT ON A BASE PROVIDED BY THE COMMUNITY! If you don't like the GPL, then don't use GPL software. You seem to want to get something for free! The GPL is the price of admission, it gives you so much great software, and helps make sure Free Software grows and is not at the mercy of suits & lawyers.
So, the only way for our programmer to derive non-monetary compensation from the use of the GPL rather than one of the other licenses is if he or she derives satisfaction from creating handicaps for businesses which could potentially produce good, creative work. At the same time, he must derive joy from hurting his profession and his own job prospects. This is a perverse sort of pleasure indeed!
I think you're insane. The list of company's making money on GPL software is growing everyday. They often give back to the community: hardware, doc, etc. Many of them employ developers.
I think the best way to make sure you never have to worry about a housepayment or where your dinner is comming from is to write good Free Software. While reading resumes for a job, you see one with something like "9/8/98 to present -Wrote significant portions of the code for APT." (insert your favorite GPL app). I think that's better than any certification you could take a test for.
So everyone says, ignore it because their stupid corporate morons, what else would you expect them to do? When stupid corporate morons do something idiotic, you are supposed to let them know (loudly, preferably).
They are not really the same people. Aparently the Debian GNU/FreeBSD-ers have been working on this for months all by themselves. So, what does this have to do with boot-floopies and base?
Debian is not a corporation and will not have an IPO, there never will be shareholders. Maybe you could say it is stakeholder driven, the people who actual maintain/develope packages and PARTICIPATE in the Debian group have a say, anyone else can get bent.
The Hurd has almost nothing to do with the release/development cycle of Debian GNU/Linux. If anything, the hurd has to chase after Linux, because the hurd is mainly working on the hurd kernel/services code, while debian GNU/Linux, continues to redefine exactly what a debian system is (dpkg, apt, etc).
The only sense of splitting of forces, is that some people might want to work on the hurd, or this FreeBSD-thing instead of Debian GNU/Linux, but so what, should we somehow force them to only work on Debian GNU/Linux? I think Debian GNU/FreeBSD is kind of wacky, but the people interested in it are free individuals, I do not get to tell them what to do.
Damn us EVIL, conniving, scumbag users to the hell-fire, we so richly deserve, with our grubby eyes looking at your code, with our stupid pretentions of thinking we could ever fix, or improve your beyond-wonderous code!!!!
If you are making code for distribution, then you can forget about 'protecting it'. If someone really wants your algorithms, then they can decompile it, and eventually understand it. And/or I could hire away a couple of your developers, etc.
If you make software for internal use, then the GPL doesn't apply, you do not have to give your employees source.
Re:A few questions from another illiterate fool...
on
Debian FreeBSD Distro?
·
· Score: 1
A better question would be:
What does Debian need that FreeBSD has????
I use Debian GNU/Linux, and I am left wondering what is point Debian GNU/FreeBSD? If the FreeBSD kernel is so wonderful, then why not simply use FreeBSD? Someone might point to the Hurd, but the development of the Hurd is a Good Thing for Debian because the Hurd is a very different kernel (i.e. something new (and truely FREE)). If someone wants FreeBSD + the features of Debian, then fine, have at it, but I see no reason for this to become a subgroup of Debian, and take up space and bandwidth at ftp.debian.org.
Oh, yeah man, like whow, like the Matrix, was like so uh wow-esque, dude, like its a like-mental thing, how we're all like, trapped and stuff. By like the Powers-That be and crap like that, but ya know, you gotta like, pull that plug-thing from the back of your head and like then, maybe totally live and shit.
How could anyone possibly think anything Keanu Reaves 'acted' is was cool. His idea of acting, is adding extra uuuu's to dude or extra oooo's to whow.
"duuuuuude!" (Meaningful squint) "whooooow!" (slowly turn head sideways)
Not quite, bucko! You may have patented the process of breathing IN, and the associated diffusion of oxygen into hemoglobin, but if you want to breath out, then you'd better send me a check! I bought that patent from a subsidiary of NCR that went out of business 5 years ago!
I have recently patented the technique of using a printf function to output text to a display or file. I am currently working on extending my patent to cover the similar use of cout.
Every single printf or cout in your programs will cost you 1 cent, unless of course your program is an application served over the web, then it will cost you 2 cents per use.
And you might want to pull your head out of ESR's ass since you seem to think that everything should be given to you as he does.
Given??? After paying 2000$ for a webuser license, plus thousands of dollars for your server and desktop licenses (17,000$ figure quoted in article), M$'s crap SHOULD run like a dream, rarely crash, and be a source of tremendous productivity increases. The whole damn point of computers is to either increase productivity or to do things that you could not do with paper and pencil (or telco: an analog switch).
Companies are in business to make money, but if you always put your interests ahead of your customers, then they will find a better partner. I think M$ is in the begining stages of imploding, at least as far as its operating system is concerned.
Slashdot Mirror
My favorite: The "You're not perfect so shut up" defense.
Yeah, things are wonderful, its just about impossible in this society to buy things that are not made in sweatshops, or were not manufactured in an environmentally destructive way.
We have only had this "free-trade" crap for twenty years or so, before that everything was heavily regulated, lots of tarrifs. All of our real economic growths and prosperity (for everyone) occured before this free-trade crap became a religion. Now, its all about profits (to stock-holders) and a huge increase in income-disparity (less than 1% of americans have 40% of the assets in this country). For the last 20 years, real ecnomic progress has stopped, real (time/interst adjusted) wages have fallen.
www.paywatch.org
>Dumbshit. You big dumbshit. I'm in total agreement with this post! Except maybe I would have added a 'fuckhead' or 'retard-bastard', etc....
They got tear-gas because they refused to follow a curfew designed to keep them from expressing their objection to a huge scam that is stealing our freedom and the sovereignty of all nations. Step out of line, and there is a cop with a truncheon & and smile.
Its a group of bureaucrats, who get to make political and economic decisions for you. You do not get a say in who they are or how long they serve. You do not get a say in their policies. You are a serf. This is like Saxony, circa the 780s. Forgive me, but I like things like liberty, freedom and democracy. These guys are only accountable to multinational corporations, not to the people who's lives they effect.
Besides, when someone proposes something new, I think it is the responsibility of the proponents of the new idea to prove their concept is better.
Most list companies (as we call them) are receptive to individual requesting removal, there aren't that many.
This is true. Lots of annoying DBs and snailmail spam, etc have opt-out procedures. They either have 800 numbers, webpages, etc, someone (hint, hint) should get a listing together, and post it somewhere. If you know an opt-out, post it.
Don't complain about that, I re-shingled my roof with the CDs AOL sent me.
Ok. I hereby now grant Bruce Perens, the status of SuperHuman!
By my fiat*, he can no longer make mistakes, his position if far too important for that kind of thing. He is no longer allowed to discuss his ideas with friends/co-workers/etc. He must only speak The Utter Truth of the Matter. He must be better than you or me could ever hope to be.
* not the car.
There is nothing in his proposal that is even vauguely realistic. Who issues the liscense, how are the charges rated, any geek with linux+DSL is an ISP, who manages it. Plus he wants to regulate the advertising, so content is seperate, pay extra to your ISP, and magically all the adverts disappear. Are websites supposed to get a percentage of the extra money paid to the ISP to make up for the advertising. It's nuts. It is totally against how the web has worked since it began. Could you get an Internet license from the Cayman islands with a fake ID and a big wad of cash? I hope his "...tiny office..." keeps getting smaller, and he disappears into some kind of time-space rift. Guy's gone senile. Considering the wackyness W3C has done to the HTML stanards, I hope this is not who he thinks could set this up?
1. ..... In fact, the code would be more available and see more widespread use under a non-GPL license.
........ Furthermore, if the programmer contributes to one of the FSF's "GNU" projects, the situation is even worse. He or she must sign over all rights to the code; it bears the FSF's copyright, not his.
You seem to think that any use is a good use. I could 'use' a bound print-out of it to hit you in the head, you probably wouldn't like that. People using the GPL have decided that certain uses are counter productive.
2.
Well duh, you're GPL'ing your code. Signing over your rights is how you make sure everyone can always use/extend it. Do you want to GPL code, have others submit patches, help you work on it, etc, then suddenly you decide to declare you're removing the GPL, and now it's your personal property again. I don't think so.
As far as recognition, I've seen tons of code, with comments like, hey this is mine, if you have questions/comments email them to whoever@where.ever.org blah blah blah.
This leaves only one thing:
3. To prevent the code from being used by programmers who publish commercial and/or closed source software.
You are half-right. There is nothing in the GPL that says your software cannot be commercial, have you ever heard of Redhat? Ever hear about its IPO? The point is to make sure the code is always free, and if someone makes a product, their improvements are available to the community, BECAUSE THEY BUILT ON A BASE PROVIDED BY THE COMMUNITY! If you don't like the GPL, then don't use GPL software. You seem to want to get something for free! The GPL is the price of admission, it gives you so much great software, and helps make sure Free Software grows and is not at the mercy of suits & lawyers.
So, the only way for our programmer to derive non-monetary compensation from the use of the GPL rather than one of the other licenses is if he or she derives satisfaction from creating handicaps for businesses which could potentially produce good, creative work. At the same time, he must derive joy from hurting his profession and his own job prospects. This is a perverse sort of pleasure indeed!
I think you're insane. The list of company's making money on GPL software is growing everyday. They often give back to the community: hardware, doc, etc. Many of them employ developers.
I think the best way to make sure you never have to worry about a housepayment or where your dinner is comming from is to write good Free Software. While reading resumes for a job, you see one with something like "9/8/98 to present -Wrote significant portions of the code for APT." (insert your favorite GPL app). I think that's better than any certification you could take a test for.
And what does that have to do with the GPL? Is that in the license?
Do you think its better to be dead that GPL'ed?
Bhwhahahahahahahahahah!!!!!!!!!!!
Are you developementally over 0.18?
is that a .deb I can download from your homepage??????
And the kid could use format and a win98 cd, presto, no more pesky NetNanny. Or Regedit. Can microsoft be sued for that?
That's wacky. Its like a state (say Alabama for instance) declares that selling PCs is illegal because a pervert could download child-porn.
So everyone says, ignore it because their stupid corporate morons, what else would you expect them to do? When stupid corporate morons do something idiotic, you are supposed to let them know (loudly, preferably).
Debian GNU/command.com
Debian GNU/Multics
Debian GNU/Babbage's Analytical Engine
They are not really the same people. Aparently the Debian GNU/FreeBSD-ers have been working on this for months all by themselves. So, what does this have to do with boot-floopies and base?
Debian is not a corporation and will not have an IPO, there never will be shareholders. Maybe you could say it is stakeholder driven, the people who actual maintain/develope packages and PARTICIPATE in the Debian group have a say, anyone else can get bent.
The Hurd has almost nothing to do with the release/development cycle of Debian GNU/Linux. If anything, the hurd has to chase after Linux, because the hurd is mainly working on the hurd kernel/services code, while debian GNU/Linux, continues to redefine exactly what a debian system is (dpkg, apt, etc).
The only sense of splitting of forces, is that some people might want to work on the hurd, or this FreeBSD-thing instead of Debian GNU/Linux, but so what, should we somehow force them to only work on Debian GNU/Linux? I think Debian GNU/FreeBSD is kind of wacky, but the people interested in it are free individuals, I do not get to tell them what to do.
>the GPL restricts me from protecting my own code
Protect it from what??????
Your USERS????
Damn us EVIL, conniving, scumbag users to the hell-fire, we so richly deserve, with our grubby eyes looking at your code, with our stupid pretentions of thinking we could ever fix, or improve your beyond-wonderous code!!!!
If you are making code for distribution, then you can forget about 'protecting it'. If someone really wants your algorithms, then they can decompile it, and eventually understand it. And/or I could hire away a couple of your developers, etc.
If you make software for internal use, then the GPL doesn't apply, you do not have to give your employees source.
A better question would be:
What does Debian need that FreeBSD has????
I use Debian GNU/Linux, and I am left wondering what is point Debian GNU/FreeBSD? If the FreeBSD kernel is so wonderful, then why not simply use FreeBSD? Someone might point to the Hurd, but the development of the Hurd is a Good Thing for Debian because the Hurd is a very different kernel (i.e. something new (and truely FREE)). If someone wants FreeBSD + the features of Debian, then fine, have at it, but I see no reason for this to become a subgroup of Debian, and take up space and bandwidth at ftp.debian.org.
Oh, yeah man, like whow, like the Matrix, was like so uh wow-esque, dude, like its a like-mental thing, how we're all like, trapped and stuff. By like the Powers-That be and crap like that, but ya know, you gotta like, pull that plug-thing from the back of your head and like then, maybe totally live and shit.
How could anyone possibly think anything Keanu Reaves 'acted' is was cool. His idea of acting, is adding extra uuuu's to dude or extra oooo's to whow.
"duuuuuude!" (Meaningful squint) "whooooow!" (slowly turn head sideways)
Give that man an OSCAR!!!!
Not quite, bucko! You may have patented the process of breathing IN, and the associated diffusion of oxygen into hemoglobin, but if you want to breath out, then you'd better send me a check! I bought that patent from a subsidiary of NCR that went out of business 5 years ago!
I have recently patented the technique of using a printf function to output text to a display or file. I am currently working on extending my patent to cover the similar use of cout.
Every single printf or cout in your programs will cost you 1 cent, unless of course your program is an application served over the web, then it will cost you 2 cents per use.
And you might want to pull your head out of ESR's ass since you seem to think that everything should be given to you as he does.
Given??? After paying 2000$ for a webuser license, plus thousands of dollars for your server and desktop licenses (17,000$ figure quoted in article), M$'s crap SHOULD run like a dream, rarely crash, and be a source of tremendous productivity increases. The whole damn point of computers is to either increase productivity or to do things that you could not do with paper and pencil (or telco: an analog switch).
Companies are in business to make money, but if you always put your interests ahead of your customers, then they will find a better partner. I think M$ is in the begining stages of imploding, at least as far as its operating system is concerned.