Maybe the problem is component-think. We don't need components in an OSS world. We don't need blackbox objects with certain particular interfaces.
As you I eye web services with a very sceptic eye. However, I cannot agree with your statements about components. A good component framework is a Godsend for all developers. Mucking about in the source code to get access to a tiny part of a larger application is ancient technology. Sadly none of the available OSS component techs are up to snuff. Neither KParts nor Bonobo go far enough and are focused too much on GUI components. Java's beans are better, but of course not OSS.
Even if tools are developed to ease system administration, there is always something that requires you to modify a flat file.
Sounds a lot like you're describing Windows here. There is always tons of options that are only available by tweaking the registry.
Consider run levels, mounting drives, networking, et cetera. While all of these things can be explained and learned, most people do not care. They want to edit their paper, steal some mp3s, chat with friends and go to bed. They do not want to stay up all night trying to figure out what a segmentation fault is, and why they now have a 90Mb file on their system (they probably do not even know if it is safe to delete it).
Once again you may as well be talking about Windows. There are exactly the same concerns no matter what OS you use! There will always be lots of magic going on that the end user doesn't have to care about. And no matter how complicated the OS is (and all OS:es are complicated) there is no reason why one shouldn't be able to hide this complexity.
WSB Remember; Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
Then you've REALLY missed the boat. XML is EASY. Screw comma delimited, I've actually found it easier and more maintainably elegant to write quick Perl scripts which use the XML::DOM, than to hack out a CSV parser. Hell, I even have Oracle DB servers spewing XML streams at me to handle.
Why on earth would anyone write their own CSV parser? There are plenty of CSV parsers available to use. Just as is the case with XML parsers...
Otherwise I totally agree with you - ofcourse one should try to use XML rather than CSV.
WSB Fear the dingo and its mighty, poisonous fangs...
There has been many rumours that Homer was actually based on ESR. And there are several similarities: They are both fat, stupid, gun toting maniacs. Conkydink - I think not!!!
WSB In side every rumour there is a tiny kernel of truth. Although in some instances it might be really, really, really tiny...
Even Tarantino couldn't make a film about Geek's cool.
Sure he could. Just exchange the words "foot massage" with "USB Scanner" (or something else techie) in the Pulp Fiction dialogue and you're half way there!
Why the hell would anyone want to use a distro that comes from a company that hasn't IPO:ed? That would be bleeding insane! You have no guarantees that they'll be in business a month from now. Go with a safe choice such as Red Hat, or for that matter LinuxOne (as soon as they IPO).
WSB Being popular is more important than being right (or wrong for that matter).
No, ASF uses loads and loads of codec:s that are closed/proprietary. It can actually use any codec, more or less. But many of the asf movies that are readily available on IRC use proprietary shite codecs.
>I wish I was smart enough to write one.
I only wish you knew what you where talking about before you begin jabbering.
Larry Wall isn't weird? Yeah, right!!! The dude is a flamming christian for fucks sake! You think that is normal? No, I didn't think so... Being a jesusfreak is totally gay!
WSB Injecting some well needed insanity into your stream of conscience
RMS A beared ubergeek that plays the flute to his Amiga and carries around plastic bags filled with god knows what mind altering herbal substances!
ESR A gun toting maniac who threatens the lifes of all those that have a contrary opinion. And he writes tons of communistic propaganda, claiming it is in actuality a capitalistic manifesto. Yeah, right, and J Edgar Hoover didn't wear big pink undies...
Linus Torvalds A big, fat, finnish penguine dude that rulez the kernel development with an iron fist. What ever he doesn't understand (and there is a lot of it) he vetos against for the main kernel tree without any explaination what so ever.
Miguel de Icaza Instead of putting out a competent desktop he spend all his time spreading FUD about all other efforts. All the while Gnome looks like it is using a pre Macintosh GUI (no matter how you theme it). This guy is about as weak as a tortilla in a washing machine.
If you use a program all the time, 100$ is not a lot.
I totally agree! I gladly pay a million bucks for any software that I use more than once! Heck, I'd pay - like - a billion $$$ to Bill 'cause I use Windows all the time and it got - like - a million little programs in it! Did you know that those weird files named.dll are also programs! Yes, it is true - there is even more value for money in Windows that you'd think (unless you are educated like me - I've taken a computer course at community college - so now I know EVERYTHING about computer-thinga-majjigies).
Hey, you payed for the computer, right?
I sure didn't! Thank God for race riots - that's the only time I go shopping - like - window shopping - if you know what I mean! Buy quick, use a brick - I always say!
WSB Fucci butti! (that's merry christmas in italian for those who haven't attended night school.)
Slashdot is hardly ever down. I access all throughout the day and hardly ever see a pause. Get a better ISP, wanker.
Tell you what, dweeb boy, I'm use several, different T3 through out the day and there are problems with Slash-fucking-dot, where ever one connects from...
Of course it is possible for sites to go down due to too many accesses. But calling it the Slashdot effect is just plain stupid. If link in a "story" on Slashdot generates that much traffic - how come Slashdot itself manages to stay online? (Well, come to think of it/. is down all the fucking time.)
OK, I guess some people consider those features useful. But I for one don't need them and I have never, ever used them in the few sessions I had with IE. Perhaps I'm quaint when I rather have a fast, lean browser that adheres to standards. That is standards that are widely accepted, and not "standards" that the browser company themself makes up.
Well, if you have had such success with NT and IE then you are to be congratulated!
The company where I work have about 80 NT-servers at our main office. These need to be rebooted frequently. All servers that are critical for operation of the company are rebooted before weekends, in the hope of getting better uptime during the weekend. Our ~20 Solaris and Linux servers are seldom, if ever, rebooted. We have about 20 persons working with the NT-servers and only three for the UNIX part (all of which does NT stuff as well). This says something about TCO for NT...
I have had several crashes with IE. Which is rather wierd since I hardly ever use it. Oh, I had my fair share of Navigator crashes as well.
Finally, I'm not what you'd call a pro-linux advocate - I'm anti-everything...
It's too bad that the Mozilla people doesn't concentrate on the main browser code. Instead they are all over the place with news, mail, direct messaging and so on. Crud that no one will use. Especially if this is supposed to be THE browser for us that use UNIX-like operating systems.
There are pleny of good mail and news clients for UNIX. But far fewer alternatives when it comes to browsers. So cut out the crap and concentrate on your main "business" and give us a GREAT browser...
I been wanting to check out this BSD for sometime. But I'm curious as to what games are available for the console? Someone told me that I can't use the regular games, such as Pokemon, from my N-64. Can this be true? Why would Nintendo create a game console that is incompatible with earlier systems?
By the way: I've been coding lisp for about twenty years and I've just switched to Python. For some reason I'm not more productive. I've been thinking about buying a new mouse with one of those twirly gadgets in between mouse buttons. Would this speed up my Python coding? I sure hope there aren't any compatibilty problems with the N-64 and the new mouse!
Slashdot Mirror
Maybe the problem is component-think. We don't need components in an OSS world. We don't need blackbox objects with certain particular interfaces.
As you I eye web services with a very sceptic eye. However, I cannot agree with your statements about components. A good component framework is a Godsend for all developers. Mucking about in the source code to get access to a tiny part of a larger application is ancient technology. Sadly none of the available OSS component techs are up to snuff. Neither KParts nor Bonobo go far enough and are focused too much on GUI components. Java's beans are better, but of course not OSS.
I realise you are only baiting people, but...
Even if tools are developed to ease system administration, there is always something that requires you to modify a flat file.
Sounds a lot like you're describing Windows here. There is always tons of options that are only available by tweaking the registry.
Consider run levels, mounting drives, networking, et cetera. While all of these things can be explained and learned, most people do not care. They want to edit their paper, steal some mp3s, chat with friends and go to bed. They do not want to stay up all night trying to figure out what a segmentation fault is, and why they now have a 90Mb file on their system (they probably do not even know if it is safe to delete it).
Once again you may as well be talking about Windows. There are exactly the same concerns no matter what OS you use! There will always be lots of magic going on that the end user doesn't have to care about. And no matter how complicated the OS is (and all OS:es are complicated) there is no reason why one shouldn't be able to hide this complexity.
W S B Remember; Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.If Linux users are willing to settle for closed formats, then they might as well just switch to Windows now.
Care to explain the logic behind that statement? Got you there, didn't I Sloppy ol' Poppy!
W S Bbut is it technically possible?
Not really...
Would it circumvent the patent issue?
Why? It would still be a tool for ripping/cracking - what have you - and the user would still be liable for using it.
W S BThen you've REALLY missed the boat. XML is EASY. Screw comma delimited, I've actually found it easier and more maintainably elegant to write quick Perl scripts which use the XML::DOM, than to hack out a CSV parser. Hell, I even have Oracle DB servers spewing XML streams at me to handle.
Why on earth would anyone write their own CSV parser? There are plenty of CSV parsers available to use. Just as is the case with XML parsers...
Otherwise I totally agree with you - ofcourse one should try to use XML rather than CSV.
W S B Fear the dingo and its mighty, poisonous fangs...There has been many rumours that Homer was actually based on ESR. And there are several similarities: They are both fat, stupid, gun toting maniacs. Conkydink - I think not!!!
W S B In side every rumour there is a tiny kernel of truth. Although in some instances it might be really, really, really tiny...The Trasmeta chip is much crunchier that all it's competitors and it is able to soak up an hither to unimaginable amount of dip.
W S B Transmeta -- it goes yummy in your tummy...Even Tarantino couldn't make a film about Geek's cool.
Sure he could. Just exchange the words "foot massage" with "USB Scanner" (or something else techie) in the Pulp Fiction dialogue and you're half way there!
W S B I could have been a pretender...Why the hell would anyone want to use a distro that comes from a company that hasn't IPO:ed? That would be bleeding insane! You have no guarantees that they'll be in business a month from now. Go with a safe choice such as Red Hat, or for that matter LinuxOne (as soon as they IPO).
W S B Being popular is more important than being right (or wrong for that matter).I'm guessing that your post was ironic/sarcastic, right?
W S B Even now that I'm dead I write better then that Kitty Katty dude>These are all open.
No, ASF uses loads and loads of codec:s that are closed/proprietary. It can actually use any codec, more or less. But many of the asf movies that are readily available on IRC use proprietary shite codecs.
>I wish I was smart enough to write one.
I only wish you knew what you where talking about before you begin jabbering.
W S B My pokemon got a really tight butt...Larry Wall isn't weird? Yeah, right!!! The dude is a flamming christian for fucks sake! You think that is normal? No, I didn't think so... Being a jesusfreak is totally gay!
W S B Injecting some well needed insanity into your stream of conscienceJust look at the facts:
RMS A beared ubergeek that plays the flute to his Amiga and carries around plastic bags filled with god knows what mind altering herbal substances!
ESR A gun toting maniac who threatens the lifes of all those that have a contrary opinion. And he writes tons of communistic propaganda, claiming it is in actuality a capitalistic manifesto. Yeah, right, and J Edgar Hoover didn't wear big pink undies...
Linus Torvalds A big, fat, finnish penguine dude that rulez the kernel development with an iron fist. What ever he doesn't understand (and there is a lot of it) he vetos against for the main kernel tree without any explaination what so ever.
Miguel de Icaza Instead of putting out a competent desktop he spend all his time spreading FUD about all other efforts. All the while Gnome looks like it is using a pre Macintosh GUI (no matter how you theme it). This guy is about as weak as a tortilla in a washing machine.
W S B I'm both cute, cuddly and slightly dead...If you use a program all the time, 100$ is not a lot.
I totally agree! I gladly pay a million bucks for any software that I use more than once! Heck, I'd pay - like - a billion $$$ to Bill 'cause I use Windows all the time and it got - like - a million little programs in it! Did you know that those weird files named .dll are also programs! Yes, it is true - there is even more value for money in Windows that you'd think (unless you are educated like me - I've taken a computer course at community college - so now I know EVERYTHING about computer-thinga-majjigies).
Hey, you payed for the computer, right?
I sure didn't! Thank God for race riots - that's the only time I go shopping - like - window shopping - if you know what I mean! Buy quick, use a brick - I always say!
W S B Fucci butti! (that's merry christmas in italian for those who haven't attended night school.)it's refreshing to have a tool that doesn't expire just when it's needed.
And of course it would be INSANE to actually PURCHASE a program that you use!!!
W S B Magoona pagoona gonk! (That's merry christmas in Danish for those who are not educated.)Slashdot is hardly ever down. I access all throughout the day and hardly ever see a pause. Get a better ISP, wanker.
Tell you what, dweeb boy, I'm use several, different T3 through out the day and there are problems with Slash-fucking-dot, where ever one connects from...
W S B Spankin' the donkey...Of course it is possible for sites to go down due to too many accesses. But calling it the Slashdot effect is just plain stupid. If link in a "story" on Slashdot generates that much traffic - how come Slashdot itself manages to stay online? (Well, come to think of it /. is down all the fucking time.)
W S B PeekmonOK, I guess some people consider those features useful. But I for one don't need them and I have never, ever used them in the few sessions I had with IE. Perhaps I'm quaint when I rather have a fast, lean browser that adheres to standards. That is standards that are widely accepted, and not "standards" that the browser company themself makes up.
W S B Piece corpseWell, if you have had such success with NT and IE then you are to be congratulated!
The company where I work have about 80 NT-servers at our main office. These need to be rebooted frequently. All servers that are critical for operation of the company are rebooted before weekends, in the hope of getting better uptime during the weekend. Our ~20 Solaris and Linux servers are seldom, if ever, rebooted. We have about 20 persons working with the NT-servers and only three for the UNIX part (all of which does NT stuff as well). This says something about TCO for NT...
I have had several crashes with IE. Which is rather wierd since I hardly ever use it. Oh, I had my fair share of Navigator crashes as well.
Finally, I'm not what you'd call a pro-linux advocate - I'm anti-everything...
W S B Tea Time of the DeadIt's too bad that the Mozilla people doesn't concentrate on the main browser code. Instead they are all over the place with news, mail, direct messaging and so on. Crud that no one will use. Especially if this is supposed to be THE browser for us that use UNIX-like operating systems.
There are pleny of good mail and news clients for UNIX. But far fewer alternatives when it comes to browsers. So cut out the crap and concentrate on your main "business" and give us a GREAT browser...
W S B Cute & Cuddly Carrion Comfortbecause the reality is that IE has a lot of compelling features
Why not tell us what these features are? 'Cause I sure as hell have missed them on the few occasions I've been forced to use IE.
W S BToo bad that IE is as crash prone - if not more so - as Navigator. And IE certainly looks like shit. And, frankly, I think it runs as shite to...
Sure I've had some crashes with Navigator, but mostly you can avoid these by turning of JavaScript. Mostly...
W S BI been wanting to check out this BSD for sometime. But I'm curious as to what games are available for the console? Someone told me that I can't use the regular games, such as Pokemon, from my N-64. Can this be true? Why would Nintendo create a game console that is incompatible with earlier systems?
By the way: I've been coding lisp for about twenty years and I've just switched to Python. For some reason I'm not more productive. I've been thinking about buying a new mouse with one of those twirly gadgets in between mouse buttons. Would this speed up my Python coding? I sure hope there aren't any compatibilty problems with the N-64 and the new mouse!
Will the twirly gadget work with BSD?
W S BWhy use credit cards, when you can loot? I mean - just cut out the middle man and pick up stuff for yourself...
W S BCome now, you're being way to hard on fluff by comparing it to Roblimo's drivel!
W S B Knocking on heaven's backdoor...