I'd have agreed with you if they hadn't managed to live this long. They are obviously being helped by outside forces (Microsoft is one, apparently) and have already lived FAR longer than anyone suspected was possible.
Like a vampire, you can't just kill it, you have to also stick the stake in it's heart and make sure it doesn't get loose. I probably even go so far as to behead and then burn it, just to be absolutely sure. Maybe spread the ashes in some well sun-lit area afterwards.
I've never been real clear on that whole thing. There's a VPinMame, and I think it's related. But I just use the regular Visual Pinball app. It's pretty easy to just slap a new table in a directory and load it up. It's pretty impressive how well they mimic the real tables, considering they were physical.
When I was volunteering at a computer shop while in highschool, a guy comes to the shop. He way taller than me (and I'm 6') and has huge muscles, tattoos, leather jacket with no arms, and just generally scary. He holds his computer out and says "Please fix this." After the shock, we do. Later, he talks about video games and how he doesn't want his son playing the violent ones, and asks us for recommendations.
After more shock, I realized that just because it was how he grew up doesn't mean he wants his son to grow up the same way.
I think people that don't want their kids to play the same violent games that they played are responding to a subconscious knowledge of how the games affected their outlook on life. It's totally natural to want to protect your kids from the problems of your own childhood.
I think kids need a certain amount of knowledge of violence and such simply to prepare and protect them when they encounter it, be it a bully in middle school or a fight over a girl in highschool, etc. It helps to know when to stand and when to run, and how to do each properly. Since there are 2 ways to get the knowledge, first-hand and second-hand, I'd prefer they get it second-hand as much as possible.
Maybe they -are- taking it seriously. And IBM is purposefully drawing this out. The longer it takes, the larger the court fees they get to charge against SCO when they win. Make that number big enough and SCO's stock will die and IBM -never- has to worry about them again. Failing to get some court fees has got to be peanuts next to that. (Because we all know SCO won't be able to pay when they lose.)
#3
Get a webpage #6
planet css stuff #7
Get a logo #17
get legal stuff cleared up with AOL #19
Rename libgaim to libpurple #21
Rename UI functions into the pidgin_* namespace #24
Setup Certificates #31
Alert Coverity of the VCS Change #36
Trac allows account creation without e-mail or verification #54
wierd blist overlay icons
Hmm... Maybe someone got a little overzealous here? Some of these are -not- done, and Slashdot has been made aware. I can't think of anything more 'public' than that.
As for the name... People are talking a lot of how it relates to 'pidgin' language. But 'pigeon', the common 'misconception', is accurate as well. When playing strict role-playing games like MUDs, quite often people want to talk about sending a message outside the game. A very common way to say it is 'I'll send you my pigeon.'
My first thought on the name was 'Oh, that's horrid.' My second was a long string of memories from one of my favorite games, DragonRealms. Maybe it's not such a bad name after all.
I'm running 9.33, and 9.34 does solve one of my major issues. (The cursor for Guild Wars.) I'm running Kubuntu and I'm just waiting for the package to update so I can have that. It still has major sound issues, and locks up, though. (I tested with wine-git.)
Morrowind runs, but has no music because wine refuses to play the mp3 soundtrack. Playable, though, I admit, once you use a no-cd patch.
And there's my biggest complaint: You HAVE to use a crack on most games to even get them to start up. There's been patches offered to workaround safedisc, but they aren't even accepted so that people can help work out the bugs in them. They are just flat rejected.
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri is the one I wanted to play so badly, but I went looking for my CD the other day and I've apparently lost it. I'm not going to purchase another for Windows because I have GameTap (which doesn't even -begin- to work with Wine) and it's in their library. And the Linux one is impossible to find, even on Ebay.
Other games: Rama (Which plays, except the video skips ahead quite often and you miss important information in videos), Pandora's Box, and Septerra Core. The last 2 don't play at all. I have apparently lost quite a bit of my game collection, so I can't test some of my other favorite games like Black & White and all the Quest for Glory games.
As much as I hate to agree with a troll, he's partially right. It's best to assume you have been infected. Even if all the current anti-spyware doesn't find it, that doesn't mean it won't pop up soon. We don't know enough about this malware to identify what it is and if you have been affected, apparently.
On the other hand, the troll is pretty much wrong about everything else, including "Furthermore, if you use WINE you can run virtually all of your existing Windows applications and games." I have been trying to get windows-based games to run for quite some time, and with the exception of a few favored games (WoW) and some old ones that were really simple, not much works at all, let alone with hours of tweaks. (Actually, I don't even own WoW, so I could be wrong about how well it works as well.)
I think people with a 'vision' are always harder to work for in some ways, but easier in others. They are -very- hard to please. But if you can see their vision, you -know- what the end goal is, and that you will get there. These people rarely make good followers, which makes them very very hard to work -with- instead of -for-.
Not tooting my own horn, but this happened to me once, with very poor results. I was working on an open source game, and they wanted something implemented. I immediately saw in my head how to do it, and make it -awesome-. So I went ahead and did it, and committed it. It worked great, but it was too confusing for some of the other devs, and they quit. This is -my- fault, and not theirs, as one of the main tenets of the project was that it would be simple to code and use. -sigh- My vision was great and worked, but didn't fit the project, and so was a failure.
From what I can tell, this phenomenon isn't strictly a software development thing, either.
There's only 1 way that I know of: Remove their privileges.
In a project, that means removing their ability to contribute. You can do this by either breaking their arms or removing their commit privileges.
Seriously, though, if someone is disruptive and filibustering, WHY are you letting them have important tasks? Either go on without the task or give it to someone else.
Since this is coming out in Japan, land of the '1 more version' release, why would you say that? They almost always release a game, then release another version of it with more content on another system or in another country, then re-release on the origin console/country with the added features and call it 'final mix', 'extreme legends', or 'international' and sell it all over again. I don't even want to get into 'Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix PLUS'.
What hole have you been hiding in? Anything that happens on Blizzard's servers is THEIR property. They can do whatever they like with it. By 'come down on' he means 'ban accounts'. If these 'gold-selling, account-selling, and item-selling service providers' lose more money than they make, they'll have to give up. It takes time and effort to amass stuff to sell, and there are companies -paying- people to amass it. If they have no way to do their thing, they'll have to stop.
Having said that, short of shutting down all the servers, there's no way to stop it. Even having to start from scratch constantly, they'll still make enough money to keep going and hopefully outlast Blizzard's fury. Blizzard can't afford to hire enough people to police this well enough to stop it.
Right, so money and goods that are yours permanently and don't give you a way to trade with other people... Yeah, great idea. I don't play WoW, but soulbinding (as you describe it) would only be good for a small handful of your goods that you -KNOW- you will never part with.
And you do realize that money is useless if you can't use it, right?
I think most of you have missed something here: This is NOT for home internet. This is for a cellphone. Yes, you could plug your laptop into your cellphone and download that way, but that is NOT what Verizon is marketing this for. It's designed for text messages and WAP browsing. For the usage it's designed for, it's a large enough limit that there is no practical difference between the limit and unlimited.
I agree that they should not be allowed to market it as 'unlimited' if it's not, but saying that 5GB is too little is just insane.
You're assuming that it was ideas and not facts that were rewritten. If he was explaining the process that an engine uses to work, it's rather hard to come up with a new angle on that. If he was talking about the socio-political climate today, there's plenty of room for original thought.
Since there WAS technical language involved, I'm inclined to think it was a description of a process, rather than an idea that was being talked about.
But say it WAS an idea. Why can't he write about it? Nobody owns them. And putting it 'in his own words' makes it his interpretation of the idea, rather than plagiarism of the original author's idea.
If you don't believe the interpretation thing, then play 'gossip'. Get a line of people together and have them whisper something starting at one end, and each person whisper the SAME MESSAGE to the next person. See how close it was to the original at the end of the line. Even a very very simple message will get reinterpreted multiple times and end up nothing like the original.
Do you really own a cat? This is -common- cat behavior. If they cat doesn't submit, they actually physically fight until one does.
You say that most cat fights are human-made... But that totally doesn't explain alley-cat fights, or jungle-panther fights. They fight for supremacy. The only thing keeping them from being more war-like than us is lack of cooperation and opposable thumbs. Seriously.
I love my cats, but the one that passed away was more warlike than most humans. We had constant willpower battles, until he got sick.
BTW, I've watched my cats, and the reason they watch the books and keyboard has nothing to do with real interest. They are simply trying to figure out how they can get your hands away from that object and get you to start petting them. And any 'new' object in the house is the same thing... It's new, so it's got your attention, and they want it.
No, I don't think cats would do any better on making political/wartime decision than we do. I can't argue that it'd be any worse, though.
So by that rationale, if you lock you car door, but leave the window open a crack and I ue that to steal your car, is it your fault for not rolling up your window?
For most people, money IS the biggest factor in their purchasing decisions. Hobby or not, you should have control over it, not the other way around. If you are throwing money into your gaming habit without control, you have an addiction that needs to be addressed. Don't make excuses for it.
"The previous generation, it was the "power of the PS2!". Guess what, the cycle repeats each time."
Yes, except that I felt the PS2 was just so-so when it came out, despite all the fanboy outcry. Don't get me wrong, PCs are still more powerful and they always will be, but the cost matters a lot when comparing them. The 360 is the first system that I got that 'pc gaming feel' from when playing console games.
Take Oblivion, for example. I bought it for PC and 360 both. I played it all the way through on the PC, beating the main quest and the fighters' and mages' guilds. A year later, when I bought my 360, I bought Oblivion for that as well, and I had fun doing it all over again, and beat the assassins' and thieves' guilds as well. From that point, I chose to play all the addons on the 360.
The control scheme isn't -quite- as good as the PC, I'll admit, but you aren't tied to a desk (for the keyboard/mouse) and there's no worries about graphics card updates, framerates, etc etc. After the initial couple months, I actually found the PC version to be more hassle BECAUSE of the mods. I was getting obsessed with determining which mods were the ones to play with and such. There's now about a dozen mods designed to change the leveling system. Some of them even have multiple different ways they change the system. It got to where I couldn't have fun with the game because I'd be worried there was a better mod out there.
It sounds stupid, I know. But that's the way it is. I've read so many 'best mods' lists that I'm more confused than ever. Adding more choices is not always a good thing.
As for the Wiimote... Yeah, I'm a little excited about that for the PC. The OIS input library has the ability to use the WiiMote in its latest version. Combined with the Ogre3D graphics engine, I think some serious playing around could be done. I just have to get off my lazy butt and get back into C programming. It's been so long that I need a refresher. -sigh-
I think in the end it's how you treat gaming that matters. It used to be my 'hobby', but now it's just something I do for entertainment. I don't want a lot of hassle and worry, I just want to sit down and play. Consoles are a lot better for that than PCs.
Did they really say that DRM will save gaming on the PC? Are they insane?
Let's be honest, here. Steam is simply DRM with some sugar stuffed around it to make people like it. And it's even broken, already. I've seen quite a few steam-rips out there.
How in the world will an already-failed DRM save PC Gaming?
No, instead, good GAMES are needed to save PC Gaming. Assuming it needs saving at all. Maybe the reason that gaming has been steadily moving back to consoles is because it works better there. The controls and basic interface are familiar, there's no worries about your particular brand of hardware working with the game, the DRM doesn't often bite you, etc. With the exception of a few games that really do play better with mouse and keyboard, consoles have PCs beat. And they are cheaper. Even if you buy them all.
A couple years ago, I'd have laughed in your face if you said I'd prefer console gaming now. But with power of the XBox 360 (and PS3, theoretically... wish they'd go ahead and make a good game for it) and the innovative interface of the Wii, I rarely game on the PC now. Enough so that I am back using Kubuntu as my main OS because I rarely feel the need to be in Windows.
I actually didn't like the DS one. -sigh- Something's just different in how it plays. (Besides the add-ons, I mean.) I got it for the Wii also and I like the Wii's unmodified one better.
Slashdot Mirror
I'd have agreed with you if they hadn't managed to live this long. They are obviously being helped by outside forces (Microsoft is one, apparently) and have already lived FAR longer than anyone suspected was possible.
Like a vampire, you can't just kill it, you have to also stick the stake in it's heart and make sure it doesn't get loose. I probably even go so far as to behead and then burn it, just to be absolutely sure. Maybe spread the ashes in some well sun-lit area afterwards.
I've never been real clear on that whole thing. There's a VPinMame, and I think it's related. But I just use the regular Visual Pinball app. It's pretty easy to just slap a new table in a directory and load it up. It's pretty impressive how well they mimic the real tables, considering they were physical.
When I was volunteering at a computer shop while in highschool, a guy comes to the shop. He way taller than me (and I'm 6') and has huge muscles, tattoos, leather jacket with no arms, and just generally scary. He holds his computer out and says "Please fix this." After the shock, we do. Later, he talks about video games and how he doesn't want his son playing the violent ones, and asks us for recommendations.
After more shock, I realized that just because it was how he grew up doesn't mean he wants his son to grow up the same way.
I think people that don't want their kids to play the same violent games that they played are responding to a subconscious knowledge of how the games affected their outlook on life. It's totally natural to want to protect your kids from the problems of your own childhood.
I think kids need a certain amount of knowledge of violence and such simply to prepare and protect them when they encounter it, be it a bully in middle school or a fight over a girl in highschool, etc. It helps to know when to stand and when to run, and how to do each properly. Since there are 2 ways to get the knowledge, first-hand and second-hand, I'd prefer they get it second-hand as much as possible.
It's also in GameTap's library, for about $10/month, with around 900 other games. I agree it's one of the best pc pinball games ever.
But maybe you haven't seen Visual Pinball. While not quite as exciting as 3DUP Thrillride, it does seem to accurately recreate the classics.
http://www.pinballnirvana.com/
http://www.pinball-originals.com/portal.php
There's probably better links out there for it, but these give you access to some tables.
Maybe they -are- taking it seriously. And IBM is purposefully drawing this out. The longer it takes, the larger the court fees they get to charge against SCO when they win. Make that number big enough and SCO's stock will die and IBM -never- has to worry about them again. Failing to get some court fees has got to be peanuts next to that. (Because we all know SCO won't be able to pay when they lose.)
Using http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=use%20possess ive%20with%20verb&btnG=Google+Search you find http://usawocc.army.mil/IMI/wg6.htm to be the first result. At the very end of the page, what's that say? Oh yeah, hmm. You CAN do that.
In this case it's not only wrong, but the s doesn't belong there at all. If you're going to grammar-nazi, at least do it well.
From the dev website:
Tickets to Be Resolved before Going Public
#3
Get a webpage
#6
planet css stuff
#7
Get a logo
#17
get legal stuff cleared up with AOL
#19
Rename libgaim to libpurple
#21
Rename UI functions into the pidgin_* namespace
#24
Setup Certificates
#31
Alert Coverity of the VCS Change
#36
Trac allows account creation without e-mail or verification
#54
wierd blist overlay icons
Hmm... Maybe someone got a little overzealous here? Some of these are -not- done, and Slashdot has been made aware. I can't think of anything more 'public' than that.
As for the name... People are talking a lot of how it relates to 'pidgin' language. But 'pigeon', the common 'misconception', is accurate as well. When playing strict role-playing games like MUDs, quite often people want to talk about sending a message outside the game. A very common way to say it is 'I'll send you my pigeon.'
My first thought on the name was 'Oh, that's horrid.' My second was a long string of memories from one of my favorite games, DragonRealms. Maybe it's not such a bad name after all.
I'm running 9.33, and 9.34 does solve one of my major issues. (The cursor for Guild Wars.) I'm running Kubuntu and I'm just waiting for the package to update so I can have that. It still has major sound issues, and locks up, though. (I tested with wine-git.)
Morrowind runs, but has no music because wine refuses to play the mp3 soundtrack. Playable, though, I admit, once you use a no-cd patch.
And there's my biggest complaint: You HAVE to use a crack on most games to even get them to start up. There's been patches offered to workaround safedisc, but they aren't even accepted so that people can help work out the bugs in them. They are just flat rejected.
Sid Meier's Alpha Centauri is the one I wanted to play so badly, but I went looking for my CD the other day and I've apparently lost it. I'm not going to purchase another for Windows because I have GameTap (which doesn't even -begin- to work with Wine) and it's in their library. And the Linux one is impossible to find, even on Ebay.
Other games: Rama (Which plays, except the video skips ahead quite often and you miss important information in videos), Pandora's Box, and Septerra Core. The last 2 don't play at all. I have apparently lost quite a bit of my game collection, so I can't test some of my other favorite games like Black & White and all the Quest for Glory games.
As much as I hate to agree with a troll, he's partially right. It's best to assume you have been infected. Even if all the current anti-spyware doesn't find it, that doesn't mean it won't pop up soon. We don't know enough about this malware to identify what it is and if you have been affected, apparently.
On the other hand, the troll is pretty much wrong about everything else, including "Furthermore, if you use WINE you can run virtually all of your existing Windows applications and games." I have been trying to get windows-based games to run for quite some time, and with the exception of a few favored games (WoW) and some old ones that were really simple, not much works at all, let alone with hours of tweaks. (Actually, I don't even own WoW, so I could be wrong about how well it works as well.)
I think people with a 'vision' are always harder to work for in some ways, but easier in others. They are -very- hard to please. But if you can see their vision, you -know- what the end goal is, and that you will get there. These people rarely make good followers, which makes them very very hard to work -with- instead of -for-.
Not tooting my own horn, but this happened to me once, with very poor results. I was working on an open source game, and they wanted something implemented. I immediately saw in my head how to do it, and make it -awesome-. So I went ahead and did it, and committed it. It worked great, but it was too confusing for some of the other devs, and they quit. This is -my- fault, and not theirs, as one of the main tenets of the project was that it would be simple to code and use. -sigh- My vision was great and worked, but didn't fit the project, and so was a failure.
From what I can tell, this phenomenon isn't strictly a software development thing, either.
There's only 1 way that I know of: Remove their privileges.
In a project, that means removing their ability to contribute. You can do this by either breaking their arms or removing their commit privileges.
Seriously, though, if someone is disruptive and filibustering, WHY are you letting them have important tasks? Either go on without the task or give it to someone else.
OMG. My first response was 'The what?'
I did eventually figure it out, though.
Spellbinder was the one I was thinking of, also by Mythic Online. I actually liked it enough to pay for it for a while.
Since this is coming out in Japan, land of the '1 more version' release, why would you say that? They almost always release a game, then release another version of it with more content on another system or in another country, then re-release on the origin console/country with the added features and call it 'final mix', 'extreme legends', or 'international' and sell it all over again. I don't even want to get into 'Kingdom Hearts 2 Final Mix PLUS'.
Maybe they thought it was the first reported case of intellectual property being legally available before it's on the internet? ;)
What hole have you been hiding in? Anything that happens on Blizzard's servers is THEIR property. They can do whatever they like with it. By 'come down on' he means 'ban accounts'. If these 'gold-selling, account-selling, and item-selling service providers' lose more money than they make, they'll have to give up. It takes time and effort to amass stuff to sell, and there are companies -paying- people to amass it. If they have no way to do their thing, they'll have to stop.
Having said that, short of shutting down all the servers, there's no way to stop it. Even having to start from scratch constantly, they'll still make enough money to keep going and hopefully outlast Blizzard's fury. Blizzard can't afford to hire enough people to police this well enough to stop it.
Right, so money and goods that are yours permanently and don't give you a way to trade with other people... Yeah, great idea. I don't play WoW, but soulbinding (as you describe it) would only be good for a small handful of your goods that you -KNOW- you will never part with.
And you do realize that money is useless if you can't use it, right?
I think most of you have missed something here: This is NOT for home internet. This is for a cellphone. Yes, you could plug your laptop into your cellphone and download that way, but that is NOT what Verizon is marketing this for. It's designed for text messages and WAP browsing. For the usage it's designed for, it's a large enough limit that there is no practical difference between the limit and unlimited.
I agree that they should not be allowed to market it as 'unlimited' if it's not, but saying that 5GB is too little is just insane.
You're assuming that it was ideas and not facts that were rewritten. If he was explaining the process that an engine uses to work, it's rather hard to come up with a new angle on that. If he was talking about the socio-political climate today, there's plenty of room for original thought.
Since there WAS technical language involved, I'm inclined to think it was a description of a process, rather than an idea that was being talked about.
But say it WAS an idea. Why can't he write about it? Nobody owns them. And putting it 'in his own words' makes it his interpretation of the idea, rather than plagiarism of the original author's idea.
If you don't believe the interpretation thing, then play 'gossip'. Get a line of people together and have them whisper something starting at one end, and each person whisper the SAME MESSAGE to the next person. See how close it was to the original at the end of the line. Even a very very simple message will get reinterpreted multiple times and end up nothing like the original.
The second post plagiarized the parent post. It's an on-topic joke, see?
Of course, explaining jokes ruins them, so... Poor joke. It deserved better.
"or to scare the other cats into submission?"
Do you really own a cat? This is -common- cat behavior. If they cat doesn't submit, they actually physically fight until one does.
You say that most cat fights are human-made... But that totally doesn't explain alley-cat fights, or jungle-panther fights. They fight for supremacy. The only thing keeping them from being more war-like than us is lack of cooperation and opposable thumbs. Seriously.
I love my cats, but the one that passed away was more warlike than most humans. We had constant willpower battles, until he got sick.
BTW, I've watched my cats, and the reason they watch the books and keyboard has nothing to do with real interest. They are simply trying to figure out how they can get your hands away from that object and get you to start petting them. And any 'new' object in the house is the same thing... It's new, so it's got your attention, and they want it.
No, I don't think cats would do any better on making political/wartime decision than we do. I can't argue that it'd be any worse, though.
So by that rationale, if you lock you car door, but leave the window open a crack and I ue that to steal your car, is it your fault for not rolling up your window?
;)
There, I think that does it
For most people, money IS the biggest factor in their purchasing decisions. Hobby or not, you should have control over it, not the other way around. If you are throwing money into your gaming habit without control, you have an addiction that needs to be addressed. Don't make excuses for it.
"The previous generation, it was the "power of the PS2!". Guess what, the cycle repeats each time."
Yes, except that I felt the PS2 was just so-so when it came out, despite all the fanboy outcry. Don't get me wrong, PCs are still more powerful and they always will be, but the cost matters a lot when comparing them. The 360 is the first system that I got that 'pc gaming feel' from when playing console games.
Take Oblivion, for example. I bought it for PC and 360 both. I played it all the way through on the PC, beating the main quest and the fighters' and mages' guilds. A year later, when I bought my 360, I bought Oblivion for that as well, and I had fun doing it all over again, and beat the assassins' and thieves' guilds as well. From that point, I chose to play all the addons on the 360.
The control scheme isn't -quite- as good as the PC, I'll admit, but you aren't tied to a desk (for the keyboard/mouse) and there's no worries about graphics card updates, framerates, etc etc. After the initial couple months, I actually found the PC version to be more hassle BECAUSE of the mods. I was getting obsessed with determining which mods were the ones to play with and such. There's now about a dozen mods designed to change the leveling system. Some of them even have multiple different ways they change the system. It got to where I couldn't have fun with the game because I'd be worried there was a better mod out there.
It sounds stupid, I know. But that's the way it is. I've read so many 'best mods' lists that I'm more confused than ever. Adding more choices is not always a good thing.
As for the Wiimote... Yeah, I'm a little excited about that for the PC. The OIS input library has the ability to use the WiiMote in its latest version. Combined with the Ogre3D graphics engine, I think some serious playing around could be done. I just have to get off my lazy butt and get back into C programming. It's been so long that I need a refresher. -sigh-
I think in the end it's how you treat gaming that matters. It used to be my 'hobby', but now it's just something I do for entertainment. I don't want a lot of hassle and worry, I just want to sit down and play. Consoles are a lot better for that than PCs.
Did they really say that DRM will save gaming on the PC? Are they insane?
Let's be honest, here. Steam is simply DRM with some sugar stuffed around it to make people like it. And it's even broken, already. I've seen quite a few steam-rips out there.
How in the world will an already-failed DRM save PC Gaming?
No, instead, good GAMES are needed to save PC Gaming. Assuming it needs saving at all. Maybe the reason that gaming has been steadily moving back to consoles is because it works better there. The controls and basic interface are familiar, there's no worries about your particular brand of hardware working with the game, the DRM doesn't often bite you, etc. With the exception of a few games that really do play better with mouse and keyboard, consoles have PCs beat. And they are cheaper. Even if you buy them all.
A couple years ago, I'd have laughed in your face if you said I'd prefer console gaming now. But with power of the XBox 360 (and PS3, theoretically... wish they'd go ahead and make a good game for it) and the innovative interface of the Wii, I rarely game on the PC now. Enough so that I am back using Kubuntu as my main OS because I rarely feel the need to be in Windows.
I actually didn't like the DS one. -sigh- Something's just different in how it plays. (Besides the add-ons, I mean.) I got it for the Wii also and I like the Wii's unmodified one better.