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To Verizon, "Unlimited" Means 5 GB
Jason writes "For years there have been stories about people getting their unlimited Verizon EVDO Wireless accounts terminated because of excessive data usage, but Verizon never explicitly said that there is a limit. Now if you dive into the terms of the Unlimited Data Service plan they have put a section in that specifically states that anything over 5GB of data usage in a one month period is considered prima facie evidence that you must be downloading movies, and you will be cut off."
And what if you paid for those movies?
Reminds me of some time ago when I got my first hard drive with "unlimited" capacity... and then accidentally filled it up with 5GB of movies in the first few days of using it.
I vowed next time to get a hard drive with at least twice unlimited capacity.
Optimist: The thumb drive is half empty! Pessimist: The thumb drive is half full...
Companies are slowing evolving into lawyer-based companies, where they will soon have a whole codebook to define what each word in the dictionary really means. This is all for the money, no doubt.
My .ca ISP never said "unlimited" but 90 GB/month. They never write unless I hit at least 120 GB. And they don't send forward letters from the RIAA/MPAA
and what if you're downloading linux distributions or other operating systems? ISO's for DVD's are consistently around 4gb. IF you download one dvd iso and one cd iso theres a good chance you will already be over the limit.
In Canada just pay .02 cents per kB. What a great deal!
If Bush wants to kill the terrorists, he should jump off a cliff.
Sure, "unlimited" is misleading, but the fact that the cost per month is fixed should clue everyone in that the amount of bandwidth is also fixed. Could you really expect to stream down the maximum amount of traffic possible 24/7 and pay the same as checking email once per day? If the price reflected a 24/7 maximum throughput data usage, it would probably cost 2-3 times as much, and then even more if everyone was saturating their connection simultaneously 24/7.
stuff |
If I decide to buy several dozen full-quality albums (.wavs) from Magnatune, and go over the 5GB limit, I'll be cut off because they assume that I'm pirating movies?
Condemnant quod non intellegunt.
Consider this other news: http://it.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/03/183 251 ;-)
With the same reasoning, people could sue Verizon over first selling "unlimited" access and then putting a 5 GByte limit into the fine print. Now IANAL and I don't know how likely success in court would be, but Verizon may be cruising for a bruising here
C - the footgun of programming languages
Movies? Hell, with the size of patches in some of today's games (or, better yet, the sizes of the demos...it's not uncommon to see a 1gb demo any more), it's kind of hard to not go over 5gb in HALF a month. Them advertising the service as "unlimited" is just flat-out wrong with such a tiny amount of allowed data usage per month.
Earn a % of cash back from Newegg, Tiger Direct, Walmart.com, and more: http://www.mrrebates.com?refid=458505
In a brief overview of the logs that are kept by a gateway at the local university, it shows that, on a daily basis, 32 members of my dormitory floor download at roughly 700KBps average during the day (that's total for all users). That's about 60,480,000 KB per day. Fifty NINE gigabytes per day. Divide that by 32. 1,845MB per person, per day. This is a reasonable number for college students. Let's assume that up to 75% of that is bittorrent, other peer to peer traffic, or what have you. That's STILL 461MB per person, per day, of assumed legitimate traffic. This is AIM, MSN, Yahoo, Web browsing, and other legal Internet services. 461MB * 30 days = 13,837MB or 13.5GB. I rest my case.
So that's a DVD install of your favourite distro, some web browsing, a couple youtubes, and you're over the limit. Though Verizon has never been known as generous.
Be relentless!
Doesn't the US have somethign equivalent to the British Trades Description Act. If they tried selling 'unlimited' internet access with a limit in the UK it would be, de facto, illegal, whatever the small print.
init 11 - for when you need that edge.
Unlimited Data Plans and Features (such as NationalAccess, BroadbandAccess, Push to Talk, and certain VZEmail services) may ONLY be used with wireless devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). The Unlimited Data Plans and Features MAY NOT be used for any other purpose.Paragraph 1 of the Verizon terms state plainly that the Unlimited plain means unlimited bandwidth for a particular small set of uses:
Reminds me of an ISP in Germany that offered unlimited broadband for cheap 7 bucks a month.
They also gave me a brand new VoIP-enabled wireless router as a welcome present and didn't even charge for the first 3 months.
After 5 months that guy calls: "I want to talk to you about your DSL plan [...] over the past months you've been downloading an average 181 GB a month [...] up to 243 GB [...] bla bla bla"
He then offered me 100 bucks if I agree to quit the plan immediately and never come back.
So:
State-of-the-art VoIP-router: 0,00$
5 months of downloading TV series: -14,00$
Getting paid to leave: : +100,00$ (priceless)
---------------
all of the above: +86,00$
* - Bullshit!
Ok I'll admit its been over a year since I had sid on my desktop, but with that configured to download updates daily I do remember it was a rare day that saw less than 50Mb of packages... thats already a third of the limit...
I must say I'm not too fond of my current ISP, but atleast they only apply limits between 4pm and midnight, and then its not a cut off, just a gradual throttling (which at worst leaves p2p blocked and the rest throttled to 256kbits) the rest of the time doesn't have limits and isn't counted against peak time usage (the limit starts at 15Gb with the throttlings kicking in from 10Gb)
$_="Slashdotter";$syn="OTT";s;..;;;sub _{print shift||$_};s!ash!Perl !;s=$syn=ack=i;tr+LLEd+BLAH+;_"Just Another ";_
It's movies! High quality pr0n movies can be quite large. (no pun intended)
There are no loopholes. It's either legal or it's not.
It's all about bandwidth usage.
Using bandwidth costs them money. They're cutting off the unprofitable customers. Simple as that. The only issue here is why they claim a verylimitted service is unlimited.
Well, you might find that extremely limited (and it is) but it isn't so strange for me. In Belgium the major ISPs (Belgacom, Telenet) allow about 10Gb quota per month, with 5 euro per 5Gb for extra quota. This is expensive! Downloading a movie or even a linux distribution DVD costs you several euros on bandwidth alone.
Minor ISPs use this a nice way into the market. (For example, mine allows me 20Gb default with a 0.25 euro cents per Gb over that upto 60Gb per month).
Offcourse, all limits are openly advertised...
"Unlimited", 5 GB means old V lawyers have a 32 bit overflow "feature" in their vocabulary, rounded up, 2^32 = 4294967296. V is also for Verizon.
Someone who's IM'ing 13.5 GB/Month won't be in college long...
Best Slashdot Co
Bittorrenting the Knoppix DVD would pretty much put you over the monthly allowance, even if you never seeded.
"Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?"
You'll get in the way of a lot of perfectly good ranting about how corporations suck, Verizon in particular sucks, lawyers suck, and the government sucks for allowing them all to get away with their crimes against humanity. If people don't vent their anger here it will just build up until they snap and finally walk outside. That's the last thing anybody wants.
Ah well the usual twit non-sense remarks that the ONLY thing you must be doing is downloading music. To bad your thought processes are limited.
My karma is not a Chameleon.
I am running Ubuntu Feisty beta with a lot of SW installed and have about 100M in patches or updates every day. This doesn't count normal browsing, streaming A/V feeds and whatever the kids are doing.
Besides, isn't this a form of illegal false advertising?
My rights don't need management.
Youtube, downloading CD images, surfing the web, playing games... 5GB a month is 161MB a day give or take in a 31 day month. That'd not be that hard for someone to eat up, especially if they like the iTMS and Youtube.
what a strange comment to make, I think its people who do understand Xvid who are most likely to get cut off. Sure 5GB might be 8 movies... but then your done for the month.
...with "Internet browsing". Of course, they MEANT using a web browser to view web pages, but the act of "browsing" is not explicit to the web. So, it can apply to any activity of searching and sampling content from the Internet. I think everything from Usenet to BitTorrent would be covered by that.
I was an early adopter of ADSL here and they advertised an 'unlimited' ADSL plan. The network was terrible, so bad that their outages were announced on national radio during the early days. They finally capped the unlimited account at 10Gb, at which point there was some competition in Australia and I immediately moved over.
Task Mangler
This is Verizon Wireless, they run their show a bit differently than the rest of Verizon.
.02 cents was the same as $0.02 ... they're owned by Verizon, but they're not really run by Verizon, rest of Verizon ain't that evil.
Verizon DSL's never complained and I've downloaded...what? Last month it was easily 20 GB? (15 of that in DVDISOs)
Verizon Wireless, otoh, is the company that said
I'm not shilling, just my own experiences, Verizon's been my ISP since 2003.
-uso.
What you hear in the ear, preach from the rooftop Matthew 10.27b
I think most of you have missed something here: This is NOT for home internet. This is for a cellphone. Yes, you could plug your laptop into your cellphone and download that way, but that is NOT what Verizon is marketing this for. It's designed for text messages and WAP browsing. For the usage it's designed for, it's a large enough limit that there is no practical difference between the limit and unlimited.
I agree that they should not be allowed to market it as 'unlimited' if it's not, but saying that 5GB is too little is just insane.
"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you." - DM
Some months i might download over 5GB in OS iso images (legally). I just downloaded sabayonlinux 3.3, which is around 4GB and I have easily emerged at least another GB.
5 (gigabytes / month) = 15.9494775 kbps. That's a quarter of the dialup speed. You can reach 5 GB/month using your good old 56 kbps dialip connection 6 hours a day on its max capacity. Enough said.
In other news, I pay 25 euros/month for a 8 Mbps down/512 Kbps up unlimited cable line, and I consider it expensive, and plan to change to the competitor that offers a 4M/512K by under 20 euros. God bless Europe.
5.00 Gigabytes may by considered equal to 5.00 Megabytes, much like .002 dollars & .002 cents, so it may even be worse than they say.
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Hey! I have a 10GB monthly limit at my subscription porn site. :)
Bastages.
[John]
Shit better not happen!
It must be 5GB per day, that's already small, limiting at 5GB per month would ludicrous...
" evidence that you must be downloading movies, and you will be cut off." So who is to say what I'm downloading is a movie or the latest DVD image of my favorite Linux distro.? I mean Verizon can say but I can leave their service and report it here. Bad publicity can be a big deterrent. Ask Sony what they think of bad publicity.
Paragraph 1 of the Verizon terms state plainly that the Unlimited plain means unlimited bandwidth for a particular small set of uses:
Unlimited Data Plans and Features (such as NationalAccess, BroadbandAccess, Push to Talk, and certain VZEmail services) may ONLY be used with wireless devices for the following purposes: (i) Internet browsing; (ii) email; and (iii) intranet access (including access to corporate intranets, email, and individual productivity applications like customer relationship management, sales force, and field service automation). The Unlimited Data Plans and Features MAY NOT be used for any other purpose.
Verizon is bastardizing the English language in their service agreement, and the courts should take note of this.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=unlimite
1. not limited; unrestricted; unconfined: unlimited trade.
2. boundless; infinite; vast: the unlimited skies.
3. without any qualification or exception; unconditional.
Emphasis mine.
This space left intentionally blank.
Lots of consultants and sales people in the company where I work have laptops. These people travel a lot and some (like me) work from a home office. Rather than each of us using an external disk drive to do backups, our laptops have software installed that backs up data from the laptop to a website that is run by a third-party company.
.exe files) from my laptop took about 5 GB. Future backups are incremental, but the initial backup would have put me over the Verizon "unlimited" limit without any movies or MP3 files being involved. It's a good thing I'm with a different ISP.
The initial backup of data (not
So in my book unlimited, is not unlimited! I wish vendors and customers would stop advertizing/expecting that. I think it is fair game to say "5 Gig/mo, additional traffic charged by rate". That is comparable when shopping for a connection. I am all for no-nonsense price structures.
I personally wouldn't choose a connection with true unlimited/unmetered price structure. That means that I would share the total bandwith with DIVX-heads constantly downloading while I struggle to get SSH and VoIP operate at a latency like [insert favorite unfavorite place].
:-) = I am happy
:^) = I am happy with my big nose
C:\> = I am happy with my OS
My European ISP (Telenet) offer 35GB a month in their fast service and even that I sometimes exceed. Not from p2p but from watching internet television.
5GB unlimited?? Crap that's some kind of joke there. There is no way they can call 5GB unlimited, it's not even basic surfing level now that video blogs are the norm.
Unlimited data and unlimited bandwidth aren't the same. Why doesn't Verizon just throttle abusers? They can still have their unlimited data as advertised, just at a rate of 2400bps.
I don't need large brains to have a good time.
ehm... just Guilty... It's called the Quantanamo clause...
Paying for movies is so old-fashioned. I don't think people do it any more. If you are downloading more the 5GB then you are definitely a pirate.
But take comfort in the fact that you are helping stop global warming.
I'll probably be modded down for this...
I've got 36*Unlimited of hard disk space on my main computer.
And the x86's 32bit memory address space is *almost* Unlimited =]
Cool.
Isnt America the free market country? Then be free and dont give them your money, no? Or did I miss something?
http://www.rense.com/general79/wdx1.htm
If you think that's bad, to Vodafone UK, "unlimited" means 15Mb. Yes mega, though that's per day, not per month. It also doesn't include IM, VOIP or P2P. This is according to their new price plans that start in June, with a "£1 per day flat rate for internet usage".
FTFTOS: "Anyone using more than 5 GB per line in a given month is presumed to be using the service in a manner prohibited above, and we reserve the right to immediately terminate the service of any such person without notice."
So it doesn't matter what you're actually using it for, if you go over 5GB you are presumed to have been using it for a disallowed purpose.
It's really simple. They say unlimited, but what they mean is 5GB. 5GB != Unlimited, "purpose" doesn't enter into it.
I fucking hate the way people tolerate this kind of BS. It's blatant false advertising. If they want to cap it at 5GB, that's they're right, but they should not be able to lie and call 5GB "unlimited".
The enemies of Democracy are
Why am I somehow reminded of the scandal several months ago where a Verizon wireless customer was told he would be charged $0.001/kb by seven different representatives yet later was charged a hundred times that amount by people who thought that $0.001 = 1 cent?
I have this service. Its so damn slow I don't see how you could ever download 5 gig anyway. I live in a remote area with no cable and no DSL available, but there is a Verizon tower about a mile away. I was using this until about a month ago when my wife dropped the laptop and it landed directly on the card which will no longer work. To get me through I signed up for a dialup account and I swear it is faster. Now I just got to get out of this 2 year contract of $70 a month for slower than dialup service.
You all keep pointing out how big dvd *.iso's are or how big a patch for a video game is... but are you really downloading these things to your phone? we're talking about a cell phone here, not a normal computer. It's possible that they say the bandwidth can only be used for certain things (i vaguely remember reading that, but unfortunately i cannot recall, so i can't say its fact) and even if you do those allowable things 24/7, you can't hit the 5GB limit. Therefore, it builds a solid case that you're using it improperly if you go over the limit. i assume there are rare exceptions where that may not be the case, but i'm not quite sure what the cases may be.
Some movies are 8GB each. Google Casino.Royale.2006.DVD9.720p.BluRay.DTS.x264-REVEi LLE
The limit on Verizon's falsely advertised unlimited plan is for a month. That is, if on day 1 you download 8 xvid movies worth of data you have reached the limit of your account. For the next 27-30 days you cannot download any more data.
Btw, does anyone know why Verizon claims common carrier status when it clearly is monitoring your data from the internet?
I did a little math back when I was working for a small company that only had dialup for the longest time.. 3 people shared one damn internet connection and it was horrible.. but at the end of the day i'd always check on the amount of bytes that were received.. in an 8 hour work day, depending on the consistency of internetwork flow, we would easily download about 130-150 megabytes just from browsing the net.. thats just about 4 gigs a month just from browsing the net on a damn 56k dialup modem.. and we certainly didn't download any movies.. if someone can almost achieve 4gigs a month just by browsing the net, then if you're on a faster connection, and depend on EvDO, then I don't understand why it's so inconceivable to download 5 gigs in a month.. since it's faster, you have the tendancy to visit more pages than you would if you were simply on dialup.. not to say that people are spending 8 hours a day on their phone or PDA, but I think it's a lot easier than people think to download 5 gigs worth of data in a very quick period of time..
*plays the Apogee theme song music*
I dont know how big are these patches, but with everyone from Microsoft, Apple-itunes, Firefox, Sun-Java and Norton anti-virus continuously and constantly pushing down "security updates" down the tubes I wonder how much bandwidth is left for normal surfing?
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Fuck Verizon
If they want to sell a sevice as "unlimited," then they should offer something which is, in fact, unlimited in some way.
The bandwidth is already limited to what the technology supports, so unlimited time usage is reasonable. Creating a limit to the amount of data has the effect of also creating a time limit, which makes them deceptive liars.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Years ago, I had an "unlimited" phone account (fixed rate, no dial-up costs) whilst living at my parents'. I didn't really need any bandwidth but only wanted the "always-on". Keeping a modem line occupied for long times was apparently not part of being "unlimited", even though it's pretty hard to get anywhere near unlimited without a connection. So they started disconnecting every two hours and putting in severe bandwidth limits (I think it was less than 1GB/month; would be cheaper to just pay dial-up without subscription). I complained, terminated my account immediately and got my money for the current month back. Apparently I was not alone, since the company disappeared only a few months later.
So no, not everybody tolerates such crap. And if you stand up for your rights, they'll learn the hard way.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Compare this to Papa John's, which is running a special on their website which says: Three Medium, Unlimited Toppings (Maximum Five Toppings per pizza)
To quote Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that hword. I do not think it means what you think it means."
When downloading Linux distributions I use that much bandwidth in a few hours, plus I almost always have a VPN connection to my office and to colocated servers in the data center, pulling down backups, so that's another bunch of gigabytes being pulled down overnight. Not one single movie, MP3, or warez download among many gigabytes downloaded.
That's not to say I do not download TV shows; I do download them when I miss them, from work, and I watch them at work when I get a chance. It's fair use since it is a modern form of timeshifting.
MP3 downloads? Thanks but no thanks. I do not want to get tempted to buy new material from RIAA member labels.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
...where they expect 5 GB a month to be excessive?
Between outlook constantly talking to the server, downloading worker's 10mb word doc email attachments, copying WHOLE GB WORTH OF VMWARE IMAGES AROUND, I woudl say the traffic my PC uses on my intranet is closer to 100GB a month than it is to 5GB.
WTF is Verizon smoking? 5GB would NOT be enough for me to even consider EVDO for a VPN intranet access solution.
A friend of mine only first heard from Shaw when doing around the same. Apparently at worst they'll request you upgrade to a higher-level package like one of their business suites. He went to a business package and hasn't heard from anyone since.
Be careful about the not sending letters part: Companies like Telus have outright offered to turn over the second any precedent allowing them to do it is set. And it's not our copyright laws protecting us in this case, but rather privacy ones disallowing the CRIA from requesting arbitrary information based on speculative research.
Google it if you download a lot of music. The more you know.
-Matt
--- Need web hosting?
Your 10GB cap of years ago is still double of Verizon's cap nowadays :)
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Has anyone else with Verizon EV-DO noticed that they seem to be doing some sort of NAT detection?
Every once in a while, I(*) will let a friend of mine piggyback on my laptop's EV-DO connection (using Linux iptables, MASQUERADE, etc.), and the PPP connection to Verizon will start randomly dropping. When we stop using NAT and use a web proxy program (privoxy) instead, these random drops stop and the connection becomes rock solid.
(* - where by "I", I mean someone else who is clearly violating the terms of service and should be ashamed.)
Not that I agree with Verizon's stance, but to those who are questioning how in the world an ISP can get away with this: This is for Verizon's wireless (ie, mobile PDA, cell phone data) data access plan and not their "normal" ISP plan, correct? I wouldn't expect a 5Gb limit through my cable internet or DSL access, but how does Verizon's plans compare to those offered by other cellular or wireless carriers? I've been looking into some of the rural wireless plans that are available, and most of them (not just from the cell companies) seem to limit throughput and data downloaded, especially the shared wifi ones. Advertising "unlimited" and only offering 5Gb is a little shady, but really, are they the only ones doing it?
Monopolies and oligopolies...
To whom would you switch your business? In the US, it basically becomes, if you don't like it, try someone else, who will screw you over in new and exciting but just as evil ways, or give up and don't use the Internet till you get home.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
How about switching to a fairly decent (only fairly as they are part of Pipex, but seem fairly independent) ISP like Nildram then? They are totally up-front and honest about usage allowances...you get 50gig peak, unlimited off peak, and if you don't use the whole 50gigs peak one month it will roll over once to the next month.
Failing that, go with an Enta reseller like the UK Free Software Network who give a portion of their profits to open source projects.
Back on the subject though, I'm with T-Mobile on their "Web 'n' Walk" plus tarrif and they make it clear that it's a 3GB tarrif that disallows VOIP. For an extra £8 they up you to 10GB and allow VOIP.
That's called being totally transparent, and I'm very grateful they "get it" and show the actual usage terms in plain English for all to see.
I am NaN
If his phone service works anything like my phone, he is probably not downloading /to/ his phone, he's probably downloading /through/ his phone. Windows (and presumably other OSes) sees a phone as an internet connection. My phone can act as a 802.11b access point, or do the same through phone based internet service. I haven't read the license agreement for this fellow's service, but I would assume that to be fair access. Nevertheless, this isn't even the point.
The point is that they advertise the service as unlimited. If it's not unlimited, then that is simply false advertising. We need to hold companies accountable to what they say. And they don't need any help twisting their words to mean the complete opposite of what they say. That have armies of lawyers to do that for them. It is not unreasonable to demand accountability and honesty in the marketplace. Don't let them convince you that it is.
This is the same thing with just about any data plan on any wireless company. Go take a look at any wireless usage TOS. Here's a few for you. Search for the word "unlimited".
m edia-legal-notices.jspr msPrivacy.html
http://www.cingular.com/learn/messaging-internet/
http://www.sprintpcs.com/common/popups/popLegalTe
I'm sure it's the same with most other companies too. This is nothing new.
It's simple. I don't believe there is much "grey area" when it comes to confusing a term like "unlimited" with a specified and unadvertised limit buried somewhere in recently updated terms of service.
The FTC should hit them like a ton of bricks.
Here in the UK the same thing happens. I am always wary of those services providing unlimited *anything*. That is why I am more comfortable with Google's 3GB or 4GB or whatever space they give against say, yahoo's unlimited, because ALWAYS (show me an advertisement that does not have it) the word UNLIMITED comes with the corresponding '*' attached to it, and in the case of the broadband services they use the "Fair use" policy to trivially limit the bandwidth.
I have also read a lot of times people assuming that the people that download a lot is *pirating* stuff. But with the current rise of multimedia content (VoIP, VoD, online gaming, and the massive amount of flash crap in the web) it is very easy to go over 2GB a month...
Ubuntu is an African word meaning 'I can't configure Debian'
I'm sure they actually meant .05 cents of a Terrabyte...
I know this is /. so bitching just to bitch is quite expected, but... Do most people who are responding actually know what service they are bitching about? This is Verizon Wireless' wireless internet connection card. Their target audience is business people who are constantly traveling. This is not a home connection, nor is it meant to be. Have any of you used this card? The speeds in most places are horrible and insufficient for more than checking email and some web browsing. If you wanted to download a movie with it you would be waiting a few days.
Throttle them.
How hard is this?
If you, as an end user, are downloading a TB or more a day, and this is causing a problem for your ISP, then they should not have sold you "unlimited" access on a line which can physically handle a TB per day. They should have sold you limited (say, 50g/day) access, and maybe a simple tool to help you prevent yourself from hitting that limit accidentally.
If you, as an end user, have paid for a service which should allow you to download a TB or more per day -- that is, either "unlimited" service on a pipe capable of a TB/day, or an obvious restriction which is greater than a TB/day -- then it should not matter what you use it for. It should not be the ISP's place to decide if you're just a bandwidth hog, if you're running a Linux distro out of your house, if you're pirating movies, or if you're shooting kiddie porn in your basement -- not any more than the water company should wonder if you just left the hose running or if you're building a pool or if you're doing a water table in your basement. I am not saying these things are OK, but let the police do their job -- and if it's not illegal, it's not your fucking business.
Because, let's face it, in ten years or so, we'll be laughing hysterically at the thought that an ISP should limit us to only a single terabyte of bandwidth per day. How do we define a "reasonable" amount of bandwidth in clear, legal, future-proof terms? I don't think we can -- and that's assuming I thought the law had any right deciding such a thing.
As far as I'm concerned, you should not be able to sell Internet access and call it Internet access (or Web access, or anything like that) unless you're willing to remain neutral. As soon as Verizon put those restrictions in -- not just the 5 gig limit, but the demands that you never download movies (legally or not), etc -- in my eyes, that is when they ceased to be an Internet provider and became a Verizon-net provider. Verizon-net is not the Internet -- in fact, it should be given some required disclaimer such as "This is NOT a real Internet connection."
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
For those of you who don't like this, file a complaint with the FTC:
C ODE=PU01/
https://rn.ftc.gov/pls/dod/wsolcq$.startup?Z_ORG_
Also consider talking to agencies within your particular state.
My small town (~10k residents) is currently laying fiber all over the place. The plan is to run fiber to the home. I don't remember whether it will be 1 gigabit per second or 10 -- very possibly 10, but who cares? Hopefully, a decent switch can split that into independent 100 mbit lines, so I won't even need QoS to separate gaming from BitTorrent from housemates' computers from local wifi...
What really gets me is the realization that even at a lowly 1 gigabit per second, it will be nearly twice as fast as most hard drives.
God bless America. Or even better: God bless Capitalism.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
You KNOW the FTC and other government agencies are not going to come to your aid, right???
...is currently looking into Verizon Wireless right now for this very thing. Texas has some pretty strict laws dealing with deceptive trade practices and fraudulent advertising claims, unfortunately those laws only ever get selectively enforced. But in this case it seems that some of the OAG's employees themselves use the aircards in their laptops and have been bitten by the 5GB limit, so we'll see how it goes.
..."liquid" means "solid".
Really, guys, it pretty much takes your sails out of the wind to post headlines that lie and then complain that eeevil companies are disingenuous in their fine print.
I guess hypocrisy never goes out of style.
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
Oh yeah, I forgot about those pesky 2 year contracts....
Verizon sucks. May 15th I get to end the two years of pain I have had with their service. Do not use Verizon!
Virgin Media in the UK (Formerly NTL Telewest (Formerly Blueyonder)) are currently supplying me with a 10Mbit/384k (Soon to be upgraded to 20Mbit for free) cable connection with no download restrictions. The allow me to run a webserver, ftp server, email server and haven't said a word when I occasionally break 300Gb/month (There are 6 of us in the house sharing the connection).
Of course, if I maxed out the connection 24/7 and downloaded over 3Tb in a month, they might say something, but I doubt I'd manage that, even if I tried.
I can see this as a new excuse for limiting services.
"No we aren't limiting services, we are doing our part to stop piracy."
"Enjoy what you're doing! If it becomes drudgery, you're doing it wrong!" - Jim Butterfield
So many people on this thread are talking about downloading movies, calculating what the average bandwidth of college students is, etc....
What they are not addressing is that most people would be using wired bandwidth for these tasks. Wired bandwidth is relatively plentiful, even with the bottlenecks in the local loop. The capacity in the backbones is mostly restricted by the amount of routing, not the capacity of the fibers, which isn't anywhere near full (hear about all that "dark fiber"? New multiplexers? Hmm?)
On the other hand, if you use wireless bandwidth, you're consuming it from a relatively small pool allocated to a cell. There's only so much you can squeeze out of radio bandwidth, which is why it's such a big deal to the cellular networks when the government auction off another slice of spectrum.
Yes, this is false advertising by Verizon. But the real issue is a minority of idiots spoiling the party for everyone else ; you just can't support those usage patterns over current wireless technologies, not for everyone in the cell. They are quite reasonably ticked off with a minority of the customers degrading their service and making them look bad to the rest.
If you want industrial quantities of bandwidth, you should be using a landline, and paying for it.
In an ideal world, marketing would make it very clear what service you were getting, and people would be more respectful of limited common resources, like radio spectrum.
I got this for a contract I was working on, and we regularly got dumps of "representative test data" against which we wrote our software integration tests. At least every couple of days, they would push out a 300MB file. Add to that the fact that I was building our automated software build infrastructure using a tool (maven) that downloads dependencies from central repositories (about 80MB for a full pull of all dependencies), and because I was creating the infrastructure I had to blow my system away to test cleanly several times a day.
I bought it for work, and was presumed to have just been file sharing. I had unpleasant conversations with Verizon. Didn't even have an appeal process, nor an opportunity to demonstrate my situation, nor even the right to ask for a manager. I seriously thought about lodging a small claims court claim for damages, as their cutting me off cost me $1500 in demonstrable lost receipts (i'm paid by the hour) in that week while I tried to research an alternative.
I finally went with Cingular on their unlimited data plan and they never had a problem with any limits. I also made sure we researched the policies and they said they didn't give even the slightest care how much I downloaded, or if I used it for "broadband services" like music/movie downloads, 'cause that's what Broadband usually means. Other than switching to a Mac and having a bit of irritation geting an ExpressCard device to support the service initially, I've had no problems with it.
i.
i - This sig provided by
I have Verizon FIOS and I have pretty much consisitently utilized bandwidth in excess of 5GB. If I were to estimate I probably use around 10GB or more monthly, and Verizon has never interrupted my service.
With respect to this being evidence of downloading movies, I would have to say that is wrong. I don't waste my time downloading movies because I have more important things to do.
Perhaps this statement exists to protect their ability to provide FIOS. One must keep in mind that another part of the Verizon FIOS service is delivery of television via the same service. You can get a package very similar to any Cable TV or satellite TV company-- just more reliable, and better quality.
In order for Verizon to be permitted to provide the TV services they had to jump through a lot of hoops both politically, and professionally. Each county they provide TV via FIOS had to be approved by the county executive, and trust me -- the cable companies fought that tooth and nail because they often have a monopoly in many areas. So perhaps Verizon had to assure the movie companies that they would do what they could to prevent downloading of copyrighted content.
I am open source, and Linux baby!
He's not downloading movies, he's downloading porn! Do you know how much porn there is out there? 5G is NOTHING!
Life needs more saving throws.
The language has actually been in Verizon's contract since at least October, when the Washington Post wrote about the story and I blogged about the story. On October 4th, 2006, I too wrote "I take some small consolation from the fact that this is such transparently deceptive advertising that Verizon might actually be forced to increase the font size on these notes by half a point or so." As its been six months since I wrote that with no apparent change in Verizon's advertising, I'm no longer quite so optimistic on that front, though.
In a related note, I ran some numbers on what happens when you translate the "fast, faster, fastest" approach to selling broadband into transfer volume, and the disconnect between the transfer capacity that you're theoretically buying and the transfer capacity that broadband providers are actually willing to provide. Link is here for anyone interested.
* * *
It is a dada story -- it has no moral.
...just fine with VZW's EVDO laptop cards. I use it quite frequently on a laptop running XP Home.
is a commodity market in wireless bandwidth.
What tech or content investors want is to sell something nobody else has. Since we're in the infancy of wireless communication, it's hard to draw the line between selling tech or bandwidth. Most technology advantages are ephemeral; the famous Sprint "pin drop" doesn't make sense now that everybody is digital except for the last mile. What Verizon is selling in its "can you hear me now" is an assertion that the're further along in rolling out their wireless infrastructure than the competition. In the end, the companies that survive will end up selling the exact same thing for the exact same price.
Which explains why companies like Sprint and Verizon are so schizo. It also explains why they are so down on net neutrality. They want to split the difference between being a commodity bandwidth seller, a game which goes to the most disciplined cost cutter, and being a tech or content provider where lightning could strike and make them lots of money.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Sign the petition to stop UK ISPs from advertising unlimited packages when there are in fact hidden caps in their un-Fair Usage Policies
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/Unlimited-ADSL/
Even better than unlimited - this one goes to 11 !
You get the idea.
"No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the America public." - H. L. Mencken
"Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
I have been downloading the chess 6-men egtb for over a year. The complete set is over 1.5TB. So I guess I would be flagged to. Also what if you do video conferencing, or research oriented datasets. *shrug*
http://www.petitiononline.com/rogersbb/petition.ht ml
Luckily I have a hiptop and managed to get the Fido $20 plan rogers is quickly trying to get rid of now they took over Fido, and I'm posting from now. Of course when they find out I used it for this I might be capped at 25mb too ...
Slashdot sets its wayback machine to six months ago to unearth lost news from the past.
a ndwidth_means_5GBs_or_less_or_we_cancel_your_accou nt
http://www.digg.com/tech_news/Verizon_Unlimited_b
Download a Linux distribution or two per month and watch a few videos on Youtube and you will exceed that 5GB cap. I'm with Comcast, not Verizon, and I often download that much in a single day at home. Not one single "illegal" download among them.
The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
No.
This has always been the case with verizon and it's written right in the agreement you sign.
EVDO is for laptops so you don't have to rely on finding wifi hotspots.
Yes, we do. It's called "Truth in Advertising," and it's part of the Federal Trade Commission's job to enforce that business don't lie about their services. We also have the Better Business Buerue as a watch group to identify unfair and unethical business practices.
Anyone who's had their service dropped by verizon for the 5GB limit, and isn't hosting a pirating service, should be suing verizon under truth in advertising. When you use the word "Unlimited" in big bold letters on the cover of the plan, you can't lie about it in the fine print.
Where has anyone offered residential data as "unlimited?" I haven't heard that term used since the majority of people were on dialup. The only place I see Verizon using that term is with their "VIRTUALLY unlimited 2GB email." Well, at least all those shrill voices screaming "b-b-b-ut if they'd just tell me the limit" now have what they want and they can now move on to getting the SLAs that actually do provide the service they're looking for.
Normally they would charge you $200 to cancel a contract. Especially a horrible 2-year rape-your-ass contract. The kind you realize is evil after 6 months when the 56k wireless is replaced by "broadband" EVDO which is replaced by rev. A etc.
Well, all you need to do is stream 5+ GB and have them terminate your contract. I don't immagine they can charge you a termination fee if THEY terminate the contract. If they tried, I'm sure a lawyer looking to make his name would take the case pro bono and smear them across the newspapers for false advertizing and fraud.
So there you have it. This is A Good Thing(tm). Just get a new account under your wife/girlfriend/aunt/dog's name with new hardware and you're set. Or better, go with a different company that's less evil and overpriced.
One other question. I have a EVDO card from verizon (using it now in fact) and given the pathetic speed i've seen and the endless disconnects, i couldn't immagine any possible way to download 5GB in a month. Dont get me started on their stupid Venturi app. Ugh!
That has to break rules about false advertising. One thing Ive learned in recent years, "the fine print" means jack, when it contradicts your main assertion in any document.
Sorry verizon, you lose.
This is talking about EVDO, not FIOS, genius.
I totally agree, but I don't think that's the point being made with the original post. The issue that they're pointing at is not that Verizon has a cap, but rather that Verizon is advertising "unlimited" transfer in big letters, while hiding a note that "unlimited" in this case means "5gig per month" in tiny little letters in the TOS.
If the people buying this service knew about the 5gig limit and were fine with it, that's no problem in my eyes -- it seems totally reasonable for Verizon to sell capped transfer packages. But when their customers are expecting "unlimited" to mean "unlimited" and getting something else entirely, that's a big problem.
* * *
It is a dada story -- it has no moral.
Now we know how to get out of the contract without paying the $175.
Paragraph 1 of the Verizon terms state plainly that the Unlimited plain means unlimited bandwidth for a particular small set of uses:
Well, what they are doing is still illegal.
What if someone was downloading movies via:
1) The Internet (i.e. HTTP, "Internet Browsing")
2) A remote, dedicated IMAP server ("email")
3) Via a VPN connection to a remote "intranet"
If I send you my Star Trek collection tapes via postal mail, that is still POSTAL MAIL. If the package is waiting in the post office and you have to go to the post office to get it, it is still POSTAL MAIL.
Thus, if one used Verizon's "unlimited" service to download/exchange files over a remote mail server, this would appear to be a legitimate use under their terms (I didn't read the rest of them).
Yes, this is not what they may have intended. But they are a multinational company with swarms of lawyers... They have the resources to do things right. (whether it be the level of service provided or the claims in their advertisements).
The younger slashdot crowd may not remember just a few years ago when AOL was either fined or successfully sued because they over-advertised their service (their phone lines were so busy, nobody could use it).
To Verizon "service" means "no service" so this is not surprising.
I know some PJs that uses this service on the field but haven't heard of any problems...
But if this affect our workflow and transmission of data (several hundreds megs JPEGs) then I'll be pissed. For me, I end up shooting about 4gb of photos every week.
How can they get away with legally calling this service unlimited, and yet, stating in their docs that it is capped at 5 GB? I say someone should sue the bejeesus out of Verizon for falsely portraying their product. Wait, they are the one that sue. My bad. :)
back when i was in high school in the late 90s, i had my own phone line which i used explicitly for dialup internet. my isp was a local company called otelco, now corr. my bill always said i had a 200 hour limit beside the charge for internet. one month, my bill said "unlimited usage" so i just assumed that my limit had been increased. so i did what any nerd would do who had a dedicated dialup line....... i left it connected 24/7 for the whole month. my next internet bill was about $400. the phone company claimed that it was "unlimited usage up to 200 hours"... as if that makes any sense.
stephen
Sometimes I do 5GB+ in a DAY.
Thank God this stupidity hasn't spread outside the US yet.
MOD DOWN
This isn't about tethering.
This is, specifically, about the data plan that you use with your computer.
I mean, TFA has a fucking PCMCIA card.
AT&T Callvantage caps unlimited VoIP at 5000 minutes a month. Just sayin......
Wait till the next rendition,it will be a 5GB/5Gb tranfer rate with a CIR or 256k/64k ...
Ad eundum quo nemo ante iit!
> anything over 5GB of data usage in a one month period is considered
> prima facie evidence that you must be downloading movies, and you
> will be cut off.
Oh come on, Verizon! Some people are old fashioned and just download warez.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
If they fucking say unlimited, it's either unlimited or it's deceptive marketing.
What assholes! Hate companies like that lying bastards!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
My wife and I have been traveling via RV for the last two years or so. We chose the Verizon service because it offered the most connectivity and best speeds for the money. Our contract started in 2005. This was our set-up: my Powerbook running the Novatel 620 card (which the sales guy said was impossible, but he was wrong) sharing to an Airport Express, which then served to my wife's laptop and her iMac. I know for a fact we used way over 5 gigs per month in those first months. Without cable television, we subscribed to several different television seasons via iTMS and even conducted video conferencing on a regular basis. It wasn't until later when my wife had downloaded a succession of legal movies from iTMS, which were 1 gig apiece that we noticed the service was cut off on the account.
Here is what may not be mentioned in the story, however. I merely took the card in to the nearest Verizon store and they turned it right back on again, albeit with a different number assigned to it. This has happened about 10 or more times since then and I eventually became chummy enough with the Verizon store people that I need only call them to ask for it to be reactivated. I can't say this would be the policy at another Verizon store, but the people there acted as if they saw that sort of thing all the time and they would just shake their heads at their corporate office.
Quote from my current billing statement BroadbandAccess insert from Verizon Wireless:
If more than 5 GB/line/month, we presume use is for non-permitted uses and will terminate service; see brochure for details.
This billing statement insert does not define what uses are permitted or non-permitted, so I presume it itself is not the brochure it's referring to. I haven't bothered to look around on the mentioned web page verizonwireless.com/bba to see if anything is defined further there.
It doesn't say movies, it's a more vague "non-permitted uses" category. Non-permitted by whom? By Verizon? By "content owners"? Illegal things? Or just things Verizon or someone else decides you aren't allowed to do on your phone? Movies could very well be some part of this, but I imagine they left it open to other interpretations for a reason.
And they're presuming this. If they're wrong about it being non-permitted, do you get to prove yourself and regain your service? Or are you totally unworthy at that point?
Are these restrictions on internet usage legal (especially since the plan is advertised as "unlimited")?
You know, there is a difference between trolling and pointing out the flaws in your reasoning. Just saying.
I lived, for a year, in a place that didn't have high speed access. My phone was my only means of getting online (granted, at twice the speed of dialup and then some) so, I had no choice. It was painful, but it worked. I got like 7KB down, but, like I said, it worked.
If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.
I don't work in mobile telephone communications, but my bussiness has quite a lot of simmilarities. if this indeed is 3G data, I can very well understand why they want to restrict the usage, as the data is caried over the same backhaul as the GSM cell phone conversations (IP data encapsulated in a DS3 or E3 radiolink backhaul most likely). As GSM conversations are transported via SONET/SDH, they retain a constant bitrate, and therefore leaves little space left for data transport, which has to "fight" for the allocated bandwidth (just like an ATM UBR type), thus if somebody hooked up their 3G cellphone (or PCMCIA card for that matter) to their computer, in a very short distance to their GSM base, they could very well overload the entire base station. So in that case, having limits to a mobile internet service makes indeed sense, calling it unlimited however does not, and I agree with everyone that this kind of advertisement should be banned.
That said, I wouldn't mind this kind of subscription. My current cell phone plan includes a whooping 10MB of free trafic every month and an extra 10 DKR (approx. $1.79).
I have Cox cable, and although they do a lot of other things right, this isn't one of them. The AUP (Acceptable Use Policy) states monthly upload and download bandwidth limits, but there is no way to check, apart from rolling your own iptables wrapper, how much you've used. You're left with a vague worry that maybe you might be getting close and should put off that big download ...
Can you actually download 5 gigs in a month on Verizon's EVDO broadband????
Alright, that's pretty facetious. But the latency on the connection is high enough that surfind isn't what I would have expected it to be. Being spoiled by cable at home and a T3 at the office, the EVDO is a step down. Granted, it is a MASSIVE step UP in convenience!
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I have a place where myself, my girlfriend, and my roommate all share internet. Last month we blew past our 100GB about a week before month's end. While I'm fairly sure that I wasn't pulling a lot of traffic, and that the roommate was doing a fair share of torrenting, I'd bet that a fairly active household with multiple members could beat 100/120GB in a month without too much difficulty.
Now, is that 5GB/month, or .005TB/month?
The above comments are not guaranteed to make sense to anyone other than the author...
"But I was downloading pr0n and games, you insensitive clod!"
Sometimes I comment just to hear myself typing.
You could also check out Sprint's EVDO-Rev A. A national corporate rep specifically told me there were no hidden limits and if I wanted to stream video 24/7 that was fine by them.
I have a Cingular HSDPA card as well, but find the coverage to spotty to deal with. It drops back to EDGE speeds and I get all nostalgic about 56k modems.
*disclaimer: I don't work for or have any relationship with Sprint except as a customer.
Again, why would you be doing that in the first place? Your EVDO connection is going to be a bit slower than your normal Internet connection and certainly more expensive per month, so why even bother with it in the first place if heavy downloading is your thing?
Well, actually an "unlimited" EVDO connection from Sprint ($59.95 plus tax) is about the same price as Comcast's high-speed Internet service for users who don't also subscribe to cable tv. It's also advertised as "unlimited" - as in there is no limit, even though the fine print has some mushy language about overusing it.
Sure, it's slower (I don't think I'd want to do any heavy downloading with it if there was any alternative connection available), but it's advertised as not having any limit (at least until you read the fine print), but it's not really any more expensive than any other "broadband" connection, and you can use it anywhere there is service, not just at home or in the local coffee place. I don't use mine very much as my neighbors let me use their 802.11 network, but it has come in really handy for email and getting directions from google maps while sitting in the passenger seat of the car.
Putting moderation advice in your
I canceled my data package, it went from
unlimited = unlimited @$60/m
to
unlimited = 100mb @$50/m
to
unlimited = 50mb @60/m
to
unlimited = 30mb @$60/m
all within my contract, because you see, telus reserves the right to change the terms of the contract while your in the contract, and also without notification. this right is a one way street, you dont have the same option todo this to telus though.
Agreed with the parent. This is typcall of a lazy operator.
1. They want attract a lot of people with an "unlimited" plan
2. Of course they want to bar usage that would compete with their own value added services such as video streaming and ToIP
3. They did not setup the proper filtering technology because it is too expensive to operate and handle to much complaints
If they REALLY want to enforce terms of usage then here is what they SHOULD DO
- filter out everything but HTTP requests and e-mail stuff
- explicitly enable selected protocols and port
- block long term high usage exchanges
- block UDP
State this clearly in your term of services and don't piss off subscribers with this kind of flawed logic.
The current situation is the result of greedy marketing associated with techical limitations.
I seriously thought about lodging a small claims court claim for damages
Do it. Take them to court. Keep your receipts, and any logs you may have.
Unfortunately the fix it or be sued language is the only one a lot of big corps can understand nowadays. The reason they operate in this manner is that they don't expect anyone to call them in on their abusive behavior. Do you know anyone else who was unreasonably cut off by Verizon? a class-action might be useful in this case (it won't likely net you any large sum of cash, but it will cost Verizon enough to get the message across).
I can see this one from both points of view.
;) I'm glad you found a provider that works for you.
Your point of view, and the points of view of most people commenting, is that the plan is called "BroadbandAccess", and under "Monthly Minutes" it says "Unlimited Access" in big, bold red letters (their words, not mine), yet the fine print specifies specific limitations on your access in terms of prohibited uses as well as data transfer limitations. This is extremely confusing, and possibly illegal false advertising.
On the other hand, I can see why VZW told you to go pound sand. How many customers use a wireless link to download 300MB of test data every few days? And blow away their maven repositories several times a day for no reason? How many of these folks want to pay $80 per month for a wireless link instead of $14.99 per month for DSL?
The reason for these questions is that there are a heck of a lot of broadband users who leave bittorrent or eMule clients open in the background 24/7 without thinking about it. VZW wants to get rid of these folks ASAP and clearly they are willing to ditch users like yourself in the process. I mean, how many customers with usage patterns such as your own are there out there with respect to the number of P2P users? You make an omelet, you've gotta break a few eggs.
Not that it feels good to be one of the broken eggs, as I'm sure you are well aware.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
That's a lot better than the account I had in 1994. Of course the limiting factor in those days was the dial up modem. It worked with the phone lines, sort of like ADSL, but much, much slower. Noisier too. And don't get me started about trumpet winsock. Kids today don't know how good they got it. 5 GB, boo hoo. Back then the only 5 GB was on Star Trek.
Loose lips lose spit.
verizon has a data business to protect (FIOS/DSL) and can't let you use the EVDO service the way that you would DSL service. if you paid to use EVDO the way that you use DSL, you might not buy DSL/FIOS, and that would be bad for profits. double digit growth doesn't happen on it's own you know.
they would love to block more, but all those commie net neutrality hippies would throw a fit. jeez, they act like abusing people's freedom to do what they want with services that they pay for is a crime or something.
the whole reason that there is one phone company and one cable company in 90% of the neighborhoods in america is to keep prices high and competition low. adding an unrestricted wireless data service of any kind would increase competition and lower prices, and that really isn't in verizon's best interest. the TOS for the EVDO service states that you can't use it as a substitute for DSL. just wait, soon they will call "misusing" EVDO a crime. you're stealing DSL service after all.
a lot of you people are already stealing residential phone service by using cell phones as substitutes for landline phone service. verizon is clearly not going to let you steal DSL as well.
at&t and verizon will do everything possible to guarantee that wireless data services are NOT in competition with residential and commercial DSL because those businesses are there to prop up the now useless telephone business. if you want DSL, in most markets, you need to buy a phone line as well. if you can use a mobile phone to make all of your calls AND get highspeed internet access... well you might as well call the telecommunications industry dead and burn the american flag too while you're at it.
someone else quoted this from the TOS:
if your friend lives in an RV, doesn't have DSL, and is using EVDO to get online then he broke the TOS and it sucks to be him. no one puts one over on the phone company. maybe he should drive to some hippy commune where there is muni-wifi.
sarcasm:
-noun
1. harsh or bitter derision or irony.
WEll, they already believe that $0.02 = $0.0002. Why not also believe that 5 == infinity ?
How can e-mail be that valuable? If anything important is received, it should be copied to a file. After all, e-mail is not a filing system. There a major gaps between correspondence even between project members. The advent of large hard drives just makes it easy to not delete anything from the mailbox.
just simply get a nice mail system running on a home computer that gets email via POP from Verizon/whoever and has its own webmail interface (e.g. getting an MTA running on a home computer with Apache and PHP running Squirrelmail or the like and having a dynamic DNS service)
/.er maybe, the average Joe Six-gig computer user, no way.
How is this simpler than "www.gmail.com?"
Dynamic DNS, fer Pete's sake. The average
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens.
I'm using Videotron "Extreme plan" (in Montreal) which is actually unlimited. My record for one month is 960GB and I didn't get any letters or phone calls. Bouyah ;)
Even if you could download your limit in one second and get capped at 14kbps the rest of the month, that's another ~4.5GB of bandwidth. That's all that is possible, so your total is only 14.5GB of bandwidth a month. There's really no such thing as "unlimited" bandwidth, there's always a transfer rate cap. They shouldn't be allowed to call it unlimited, because it never is.
I'm a little surprised companies are still calling their HSI services "Unlimited" in this day and age. Comcast no longer advertises it (they did when I signed up 4 years ago). Verizon really should advertise their limits. It's an unfair business practice basically. If unlimited is 5 Gigs then they should let people know.
FYI... Amazon unbox HD-DVD's are about 2 Gigs each (for about $10). Download two or three a month and you are terminated with Verizon.
Bandwidth really is becoming a problem. I wonder if the FCC / FTC will consider clamping down on these grey area business practices. If I purchased clothing or some other product/service, I want to know what the heck I bought for my dollar. It's not reasonable to walk in to say Walmart, be handed a bag and told it has exactly what I want.
You go home, open up the bag thinking you bought a red shirt when really you purchased a pair of blue jeans. What kind of company would do that?
Apparently Verizon and Comcast share that sort of mentality. It's unfortunate. This is why we need to demand disclosure. This is why we need the Government to step in and force these companies to help us make informed decisions.
BTW, tomorrow is my month mark with Qwest / Xmission DSL. I'll be posting my ISP's numbers for my useage online (screen shots). I was accused of downloading 300 Gigs a month. My normal usage numbers are WAY lower than that. Approaching 50 gigs and that includes the new web server I setup for sharing family photos (they are all over the US).
http://comcastissue.blogspot.com/
Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
Do you think that "Unlimited Access" and "Unlimited Data Transfer" mean the same thing? How about "Unlimited Access" and "Unlimited Bandwidth"?
Surely you didn't take "Unlimited Access" (Verizon Wireless's actual marketing text, not mine) to mean "Unlimited Bandwidth". You are likely smart enough to know that bandwidth always has limits since there is no such thing as a pipe of unlimited size. Your cable modem is probably 5Mbps, your FiOS 10Mbps, your DSL 1.5Mbps, etc. So you would never have confused "Unlimited Access" with "Unlimited Bandwidth".
Would you agree, then, that it would follow that "Unlimited Data Transfer" is just as absurd a concept? I mean, there are physical limits to how much data can be transferred over a given link in a given amount of time. There is no possible way to transfer unlimited data over a 500kbps link in one month. You know that, I know that, everybody knows that.
So why would you confuse "Unlimited Access" (again, those were Verizon Wireless's actual words) with "Unlimited Data Transfer"? Wouldn't "Unlimited Access" just mean that I always have access to the service? As opposed to "Unlimited Usage", which you were describing, but which VZW never claimed to offer?
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
I grew tired of my 320 GB drive always having 10 GB free for recording TV and downloading from USENET that I added a 1 TB RAID-0. Filled in up in a week. Though it is easier and less time-consuming to find 100 GB of crap to delete/burn on a 1.3 TB box than it was to free up 10-20 GB daily on a 320 GB box, so I guess that's a plus.
I've had this sevice for alomst a year now, for my Powerbook G4, at about $80/month, which is less than one hour of my billable rate.
I've yet to have a problem, but then it's really for accessing the Interenet at client sites that don't allow just anybody to connect from thier internal network to the outside (especially without IE7 and VB to run authentication...). My home connection is via cable modem (Comcast), so most of my heavy usage comes that way, though I have occasionally used the EVDO to donwload some update files of 100MB each, and an occasional audio book, without a complaint from Verizon.
The service contract, when I signed it, made it clear that the "unlimited" refered to connect time, not bandwidth, which was fine with me.
I did see the complaints about terminated service plans on the EVDO Forums ( http://www.evdoforums.com/ ), but felt that my requirements where going to be much lower. The current verion of Verizonwireless' website allows me to see my data useage by month, plus the current data usage since the last billing, so it is possible to watch what I'm doing. For the last three months, I don't have any month over 5MB, so I don't expect a 5GB/month to be a problem.
Unlimited could be short for UNbearably LIMITED...
And anyone with gspace installed could easily get past their 5G limit using only email in under a week.
This includes long distance, ISP, etc Must have your head in a hole somewhere, because this has been going on for years.
OMG, guess I'll never be switching from Sprint, on Sprint's EVDO I easily use 100MB to half a gig daily!
5 Gig's would only allow for about three days of using Second Life...
they dont get rm'd they get mv'd to the gov't
I'm surprised no one is asking why it is that Verizon should want to limit data. I thought - and I may be wrong - that essentially, the total amount of 3g spectrum that is available (i.e. FCC licensed) for U.S commercial exploitation is finite. Meaning, Verizon can't grow the EVDO customer base indefinitely - they WILL hit their total licensed allocation.
The only way to deal w. this, then, is to do exactly what they are doing. If spectrum is limited, and customers are growing, data must be limited. That's it.
What they are "calling" it - who cares.
I pull in 150GB's monthly on my RoadRunner NO PROBLEM
So it makes sense to me why Wireless broadband gets capped.
Contemplate the marvel that is existence, and rejoice that you are able to do so.
Interesting that they don't include VoIP in there "disallowed uses". I run Skype atop EVDO on my Verizon/Audiovox XV6700 ("Apache" version). Given the $20 per year for unlimited SkypeIn (which is also limited) across the US, plus $20/yr for a Skype phone number, and everybody in Eurpope has Skype, I always assure that any call I send/recieve is free (and doesn't eat into my cell-phone minutes). I also forward my Verizon phone to my Skype phone, as voicemail in Skype is so much easier to use.
I've been w/ Verizon for a few years... my original agreement had no data clauses whatsoever (they didn't have a data service back then), and they've not provided me any new agreements.
I bought my XV8600 new off Ebay for $180 (Verizon would have sold it for $300+2yr contract). Initially, I didn't even turn the data on... just changed the SIM ID of my existing account. Once I convinced my boss to pay for it, I had them (via phone call) turn on the data, and all they said was "unlimited"... they didn't have me even browse through any additional agreements. They just switched it on and started billing. There is, of course, the standard agreement that the agreement can be changed by Verizon at any time and w/o notice.
Given that Sprint is $15 a month for unlimited EVDO, I wonder if they have similar clauses?
I also worry about Verizon not switching to GSM... their phone system is going to get more antiquated over time.
When I die, please cast my ashes upon Bill Gates -- for once, make him clean up after me!
Unless I'm missing something, everybody seems to be misreading this. That paragraph says nothing about a 5GB limit. It estimates that using the service 10 hours a day for 7 days a week could add up to 5GB+ of data transfer. It says a person engaged in prohibited use might use it that much.
But a person engaged in prohibited use could use much less than 5GB too. And a person engaged in legitimate use could use much more than that, since their definition of intranet access is very broad.
Verizon has never hesitated when penalizing its users; even for slight, highly debatable, misuses. This is just a TOS tweak. Verizon will be notifying you on your bill if you have actually crossed their imaginary line, which is probably determined by a script somewhere.
A script probably written by the same person responsible for that script that sent a DMCA takedown on behalf of the BSA because an OOo RPM was noticed on a university server in Europe. =)
I believe the sole purpose of access is to transfer data.
... :)
That "connect" light's not doing me any good all by itself.
So, for business purposes, there's No Difference between "unlimited access" and "unlimited data". That's a prerequisite. Nobody can honestly offer either without offering both.
I downloaded 5GB in movies last night! See you guys in a month...
Why is it that the phone companies are always trying to get a profit in a way that I'd imagine a Ferrengi would? It always seems business ethics is something that they laugh about in their corporate meetings.
From disabling features on phones and charging for it later to metered bandwidth charges.
The Grand Nagus would be proud.
I pay eur43 per month for a bundle including basic cable TV, a package of premium channels, and a 2Mb/s internet link with email accounts and suchlike. With this deal they limit me to 2Mb/s download, which would be almost 650GB per month if I saturated it all of the time. I have not come close to that, but have definitely downloaded 15+GB (multiple DVD ISOs) in a single week. They don't seem to care how many GB per month I actually use; the only limit is 2 megabits per second. For a few euro more, I could get 8Mb/s, but 2Mb/s seems adequate (for data rates above 8Mb/s, I'd need to replace my el-cheapo cable modem).
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
"iii) as a substitute or backup for private lines or dedicated data connections." So, I can't use it as a substitute for my connection at home when I travel? Isn't that why I got one?
what a bunch of tools, seriously in a few hours ive browser over 3GB worth of pics over at deviantart.com what the hell is wrong with that wisp.
http://www.theonion.com/content/node/51834
Cool. Now lets get the corporate regulators to declare any company that makes more than $5M per annum must be engaged in illegal, misleading, predatory, anti-consumer, fake-accounting, shareholder-deceptive practices. Verizon.
could easily push IPTV usage up to 24x7, especially if people in it are downloading to disk for timeshifting.
Bandwidth caps can be lived with as long as the users are told upfront, not with the numbers buried somewhere in an AUP. It's not telling users up front that's going to get the big broadband providers Federal regulation they don't want.
However, to make the next generation of modern Internet services available like IPTV and other mighty suckers of bandwidth, the big carriers are going to have to figure out how to bring their costs down. It would be ironic if we all got FTTH... and all got kicked off after the first month for actually using the service as intended.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Optus shapes at 28.8Kbps (Aussie ISP's call it 'shaping' because that sounds so much sexier than the alternative, or perhaps they should call it 'screwed to 28.8Kbps'). The sad and funny thing is that Joe Public has no idea what 28.8Kpbs or 'shaping' means. I've had naive n00bs tell me they're on an Unlimited plan when they are infact shaped. One friend was getting shaped and she didn't realize it: just said the Internet must 'get slow when it's busy.'
TPG shapes to 64/128Kbps depending on your plan. You can get it shaped to 256Kbps, but that's the very expensive plan.
All Aussie ISPs do it. The communications infrastructure in this country sucks. When I was in Japan recently and I saw 100Mbps true Unlimited for $40 a month, I wept.
Shaping sucks. It really, really sucks. 'Clever Country' my ass (arse)?
This is news how? Pay attention to the TOS's, and don't presume its an "always on" service.
I setup a little Linux router w/ one of these Verizon Wireless cards recently for a gal at work, who's a "Home Based Employee" We read the TOS's, and she's aware of the situation. She uses it for VPN'ing to work, the occasional bit of web surfing, and doesn't leave it on all the time.
Why did we use Verizon? She's out in the middle of nowhere.
(So far in the middle of nowhere, we have to use a Yagi up on an antenna tower to get stable signal).
Her options were go with Verizon, or continue paying through the nose for ISDN. (Satellite seemed to be out of the question due to concerns about the latency.) As it is she gets better bandwidth now, and can pull the card out of the router, and use it with her laptop while she's waiting to pick up the kids from school.
For some its great... for others I can see where it might not be so great..
PS: If you've been paying attention on the EVDO forums, you'd realize that the spelling out of the 5GB limit in the Verizon TOS is an improvement. At one point they just stated no high bandwidth utilization, and didn't spell out exactly what the limit was. Now they do.
I go over that limit just about every month on a crappy isdn link (128k) and I'm not downloading movies, legal or otherwise. It's all linux related stuff mostly. I use debian/sid so I'm dist-upgrading a couple of machines regularly and I do a lot of artwork for the community. Anybody that stays with this isp has rocks in their head. Find one that has a few ethics and doesn't make lame excuses for not delivering what they advertise. Calling 5G unlimited is simply false advertising. Protest with your wallet, they are obviously dodgey.
"A cynic is what an idealist calls a realist" - Sir Humphrey Appleby
they did advertise it honestly, would anyone buy it?
Tech Public Policy stuff
Does this remind anyone of Blockbuster's stunt a couple years ago when they advertised a new policy of No Late Fees!!! Except that if you brought a movie back late, they assessed a fee. Clever.
I used to have their service a long time ago.
Glad I don't anymore.
I regularly pull down 20-30 gigabytes of solar image data per day on comcast cable.
Still looking to get people to join in on a grass-roots neighborhood or city-wide wifi in San Jose. I will donate time and equipment and bandwidth.
Is using the word "unlimited" to advertise a service but limiting it to 5GB prima facie evidence of fraud? Or at least false advertising?
Not just pirates. There are legitimate downloads too...
It depends on what stuff you are downloading.
I regularly pull down 20-30 gigabytes a day of solar image data.
I frequently download/upload large datasets to/from our supercomputer regularly from home (I can't quite escape work - I rather enjoy it). So, they are telling me that this is most likely an illegal process? How DRM assuming of them.
.
If I try to download two Linux distributions, each one weight around 4GB, I am out of bandwidth.
Five GB per month should be enough for anybody.
;-]
[Sorry; I was just amazed that nobody seems to have said this yet.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
So how can someone who believes himself to be author of a work determine whether or not he is in fact the author and whether or not the work is in fact freely redistributable?
In Australia, "Unlimited" plans typically get shaped after 10GB, 5GB plans are often called light. Just in the last 28 days, I've already done nearly 7GB all for legitimate and legal purposes, I haven't even been using bit torrent or P2P, and only downloads are counted, not uploads. However, this has been a particularly light monthly usage for me, as I'll often get up near 40GB easily.
By reading this signature, you hereby agree with the content of the above comment.
Cox business SOHO accounts are basically residential accounts that are "open" and guaranteed (ie: you don't share). They are sold through the business group - entirely separate from residential.
:)
I find that the extra $10-$15/mo is well worth it to not have to worry about crap like this. I've done it all (BT, P2P, Tor, I2P, even as a Freenet exit point) with my connection and I've never heard a peep from them. Usenet can be especially greedy on bandwidth
Right now, I have 10MB dwn/1 MB up. No caps. No ports blocked. Preferential treatment in my neighborhood. Yea, I'm a geek and that's worth it.
are actually signing that contract? If you are then, obviously you must be accepting that as truth. Hey, this ain't your dopey EULA here.
What?
2 Gb/s inside and 320 Mb/s outside of Lithuania with Skynet who encourage P2P :) Costs approx £17 per month.
With Omnitel, the main phone network, you can have unlimited 3G/EDGE/GPRS for relatively cheap, too. ~£25 per month.
Here in Malaysia one of our wireless internet service provider, Maxis, advertised for unlimited broadband, but will actually throttle your connection speed if you exceed 3GB per month. Total crap
geek page at KY speaks
I think "unlimited" with respect to Internet access means exactly one thing in common usage. If there's any ambiguity, then Verizon should make it clear. I've had Verizon EV-DO service for a year or so without any problems, but after reading about this, I may look into Cingular as the ancestor poster suggested.
Your comment about the meaning of "unlimited access" reminds me of a story. Back in '96 I was working for a small ISP with POPs in several cities. One of the satellite POPs in a city about 60 miles away was served (more like underserved) by a 56k link, so it didn't take too many simultaneous dialup users to saturate it. The ISP prominently advertised "unlimited" on their billboards in this town, then proceeded to crack down on users who stayed connected too long. Naturally, users started calling them on this discrepancy. A member of the sales staff asked an executive what to tell users, and the executive issued the following proclamation: "Tell them that by unlimited, we mean we don't restrict what web sites they are allowed to visit." I kid you not. Coincidentally, this ISP is no longer in business.
Well, which is more confusing to your average business user? "Unlimited" or "Limited to 5GB/month?".
The average customer a) is not going to use 5GB/month, and b) has no idea what his monthly usage is. But for all intents and purposes, 5GB is unlimited to them. Why make them attempt to compute it?
On the flip side, a technical user knows that "Unlimited Access" couldn't mean "Unlimited Data Transfer" because of the physical impossibilities involved with transferring infinite data over a finite link in a finite amount of time. If that user is concerned, he can read the fine print, which are under a page long, and in plain English (not legalese). The fine print describes in detail what is and is not meant by "unlimited access".
At any rate, while I don't like that Verizon is playing around with the word "unlimited", it sounds like what they are doing is a lot less sinister than what your former employer was doing.
They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock