Where in this experiment can you see the person dying?
Well your experiment blurs things out, and it's not the experiment we've been talking about for the whole time. The one we've been talking about makes things less ambiguous. You copy someone, then you kill that person in a "traditional" way. That's it. But it still work for your precision experiment, as in, the original isn't magically liked to the copy, information is taken out of it, it doesn't matter if it's ever turned into a person or if that happens hours later, information is taken, then the body is systematically destroyed. Taking information before destroying a body doesn't prevent the person from dying. Do you understand that?
If the teleported doesn't notice a difference and the outsiders can not tell the difference, how can anyone know that the new copy is not the "original"?
The copy is the original, but the other copy had to die.
Furthermore as to "tracing the consciousness", what if the person is teleported while they are asleep? There will be no break in consciousness.
What on Earth does it change? You're just getting killed in your sleep, you're still dead, and definitely in the telecopy of yourself. What is it so hard to understand about it all? Teleportation = Telecopy then death. That means you die, and a copy of you lives, not you.
God damn. I know that in this era and country there is this cultural phenomenon which consists in discrediting exports/professionals with respect to amateurs, but could we at least remember the difference between an amateur and a professional?
This whole 'blogger=journalist' movement is ridiculous and quite insulting to actual career journalists. I don't know how it's like in the US but here in France you need a license to call yourself a journalist (Disclaimer : my father was a French journalist), so if you want to be called that that's what you've gotta obtain. And don't get me started with the FUD some of you would like to give me about having the government/an organisation to decide who's a journalist, because here any journalist from the most Marxist to the most neo-fascist has their license.
I wouldn't consider having all of your atoms disassembled within a millisecond to be death
What the hell are you referring to? Disassembled? The teleportation we're talking about consists in sending full information to allow the reconstruction atom by atom of your body, as well as your "electrical running state" if you will, so that a faithful copy can be created at the other end, and then you're killed, in a regular way. How are you supposed to be disassembled?
If you copy a program from one area of memory to another, does it actually die?
Just like the other guy, that's where your logic fails. Because you talk about this whole thing from an outsider point of view. Like I said before, in the case of teleportation, outsiders don't see the difference, the teleported doesn't see the difference and the original copy gets killed. Trace the conciousness. Just because there's one person at the beginning at the process and one person at the end of the process doesn't mean no one got killed (creating one person and killing another isn't the same as not doing anything, even if the two persons are identical)
and work for a major VM company now. Programs, hosts, migration, etc, I believe in, whether the substrate is silicon or meat.
Then it's amusing how you fail to realise that your VM migration analogy backs my claim, in that the original VM has to be shut down. Your problem is that you look at things from an outsider point of view and fail to imagine what happens for the original copy, either of the VM or of a person.
Because I do. And I pity the fool who has the nerve to disagree with me. It's only a matter of common sense anyways, both copies *are* a continuation of the original, but one has to die, and its death is no different from a regular death, that's the point.
Continuity is an illusion, any way you look at it.
You're an idiot. You're not actually a stupid person, but what you think is. A copy of you is unrelated to you, and comparing that to cells dying to be replaced by others is an utterly stupid analogy.
Whether or not this particular mass of meat dies is of no concern to me.
You run on this "mass of meat", dumb ass. Kill this "mass of meat" and you die. It doesn't change a fucking thing whether you make a copy or not or even if you tamper with this copy in any way. When you migrate a VM you copy the data, the running state, then you shut down the original VM. In this case too, it doesn't matter whether or not you copied it, the thing is, it's gonna be shut down. How the fuck do you think it would work out if you had a copy and yourself and die? That suddenly as soon as you'd be dead you'd be aware of what your copy thinks and control it as if you incarnated it? Is some deity supposed to "transfer your soul" or even merge it with your copy? You need to explain to me how you conceptualise that in details, I haven't laughed enough for today yet.
This is idiotic. It has absolutely nothing to do with how identical two things are but conciousness. Imagine you've been "telecopied" to Mars. So, at that moment, you have yourself, and an identical running copy of yourself. Big whoop. Let's say you die. Does it matter whether your copy is alive and well or fell directly into hot lava? No, you just die, who cares if a million copies of you have been made. What's so hard to understand about it?
Oh of course, to other people, you still exist, and to your copy, he magically got transported very far away. But you, you had a plain old death, you weren't the one magically transported, and depending on your understanding of death you'll spend the rest of eternity unconscious or whatever your religion specifies.
To sum it up, if I cut your head off, you'll die, and whether or not a copy of you has been made won't change a thing to this.
Well yeah, because you actually die. What do you think, that because some machine created a carbon copy of you you'll be somehow magically linked to it? No, that's if as you grew a twin/clone and then killed yourself. You die, you're getting killed, the way you chose, and life goes on for your copy, who is a copy of you, but not you.
And actually you don't actually have to get killed when you get teleported, you're "telecopied", you're only killed for the sake of not spamming the universe with copies of yourself.
It appears you are trying to create a false dichotomy. Cancel or Allow?
Or, to put it more obviously, maybe this law isn't stupid, and maybe this has nothing to do with national protectionism but concurrence protection (yes, we don't quite like the United States' "Only the strong survive" economic model, for that model prioritises the interests of a few over the general interest).
which happens to also be a great place for astronomy
Huh? How would be at the poles be any good? You'd only ever get to see 50% of the sky, it won't shield you against the Earth as well as the rest of the hidden face of the Moon (which is the place to go for radio-astronomy) and errr.. what are the advantages again?
Make that no more, I checked about one hour after I made the comment and also a couple of days later and it was there. Google is just not very consistent.
Slashdot Mirror
Where in this experiment can you see the person dying?
Well your experiment blurs things out, and it's not the experiment we've been talking about for the whole time. The one we've been talking about makes things less ambiguous. You copy someone, then you kill that person in a "traditional" way. That's it. But it still work for your precision experiment, as in, the original isn't magically liked to the copy, information is taken out of it, it doesn't matter if it's ever turned into a person or if that happens hours later, information is taken, then the body is systematically destroyed. Taking information before destroying a body doesn't prevent the person from dying. Do you understand that?
Seriously, does anyone out here know what death means? Cause it seems like none of y'all really grasped the concept.
If the teleported doesn't notice a difference and the outsiders can not tell the difference, how can anyone know that the new copy is not the "original"?
The copy is the original, but the other copy had to die.
Furthermore as to "tracing the consciousness", what if the person is teleported while they are asleep? There will be no break in consciousness.
What on Earth does it change? You're just getting killed in your sleep, you're still dead, and definitely in the telecopy of yourself. What is it so hard to understand about it all? Teleportation = Telecopy then death. That means you die, and a copy of you lives, not you.
God damn. I know that in this era and country there is this cultural phenomenon which consists in discrediting exports/professionals with respect to amateurs, but could we at least remember the difference between an amateur and a professional?
This whole 'blogger=journalist' movement is ridiculous and quite insulting to actual career journalists. I don't know how it's like in the US but here in France you need a license to call yourself a journalist (Disclaimer : my father was a French journalist), so if you want to be called that that's what you've gotta obtain. And don't get me started with the FUD some of you would like to give me about having the government/an organisation to decide who's a journalist, because here any journalist from the most Marxist to the most neo-fascist has their license.
I wouldn't consider having all of your atoms disassembled within a millisecond to be death
What the hell are you referring to? Disassembled? The teleportation we're talking about consists in sending full information to allow the reconstruction atom by atom of your body, as well as your "electrical running state" if you will, so that a faithful copy can be created at the other end, and then you're killed, in a regular way. How are you supposed to be disassembled?
If you copy a program from one area of memory to another, does it actually die?
Just like the other guy, that's where your logic fails. Because you talk about this whole thing from an outsider point of view. Like I said before, in the case of teleportation, outsiders don't see the difference, the teleported doesn't see the difference and the original copy gets killed. Trace the conciousness. Just because there's one person at the beginning at the process and one person at the end of the process doesn't mean no one got killed (creating one person and killing another isn't the same as not doing anything, even if the two persons are identical)
I guess you're getting to that whole, unobservable, "soul" thing. You're obviously a believer in that.
I beg your pardon? How on Earth does what you quoted me saying allow you to deduce that?
and work for a major VM company now. Programs, hosts, migration, etc, I believe in, whether the substrate is silicon or meat.
Then it's amusing how you fail to realise that your VM migration analogy backs my claim, in that the original VM has to be shut down. Your problem is that you look at things from an outsider point of view and fail to imagine what happens for the original copy, either of the VM or of a person.
you are acting like you have all the answers
Because I do. And I pity the fool who has the nerve to disagree with me. It's only a matter of common sense anyways, both copies *are* a continuation of the original, but one has to die, and its death is no different from a regular death, that's the point.
Frankly, it makes you sound like an ass.
Shut up, fool!
You can mismanage FEMA and let a major city turn back into a swamp
The, fixed it for you. Oh the irony.
Continuity is an illusion, any way you look at it.
You're an idiot. You're not actually a stupid person, but what you think is. A copy of you is unrelated to you, and comparing that to cells dying to be replaced by others is an utterly stupid analogy.
Whether or not this particular mass of meat dies is of no concern to me.
You run on this "mass of meat", dumb ass. Kill this "mass of meat" and you die. It doesn't change a fucking thing whether you make a copy or not or even if you tamper with this copy in any way. When you migrate a VM you copy the data, the running state, then you shut down the original VM. In this case too, it doesn't matter whether or not you copied it, the thing is, it's gonna be shut down. How the fuck do you think it would work out if you had a copy and yourself and die? That suddenly as soon as you'd be dead you'd be aware of what your copy thinks and control it as if you incarnated it? Is some deity supposed to "transfer your soul" or even merge it with your copy? You need to explain to me how you conceptualise that in details, I haven't laughed enough for today yet.
This is idiotic. It has absolutely nothing to do with how identical two things are but conciousness. Imagine you've been "telecopied" to Mars. So, at that moment, you have yourself, and an identical running copy of yourself. Big whoop. Let's say you die. Does it matter whether your copy is alive and well or fell directly into hot lava? No, you just die, who cares if a million copies of you have been made. What's so hard to understand about it?
Oh of course, to other people, you still exist, and to your copy, he magically got transported very far away. But you, you had a plain old death, you weren't the one magically transported, and depending on your understanding of death you'll spend the rest of eternity unconscious or whatever your religion specifies.
To sum it up, if I cut your head off, you'll die, and whether or not a copy of you has been made won't change a thing to this.
Does it matter that you "die"?
Well yeah, because you actually die. What do you think, that because some machine created a carbon copy of you you'll be somehow magically linked to it? No, that's if as you grew a twin/clone and then killed yourself. You die, you're getting killed, the way you chose, and life goes on for your copy, who is a copy of you, but not you.
And actually you don't actually have to get killed when you get teleported, you're "telecopied", you're only killed for the sake of not spamming the universe with copies of yourself.
Are you aware of the fact that the only result you get when you google "Downtime as a Conscious Choice" is your own comment?
Don't fear me, bro!
Right
I mean, crap!
Stupid laws or Gallic protectionism?
It appears you are trying to create a false dichotomy. Cancel or Allow?
Or, to put it more obviously, maybe this law isn't stupid, and maybe this has nothing to do with national protectionism but concurrence protection (yes, we don't quite like the United States' "Only the strong survive" economic model, for that model prioritises the interests of a few over the general interest).
Imagine a gay who could watch for enemies stealthily by monitoring shadows or reflections
There, fixed it for you, it makes a bit more sense now, I guess..
Can't wait to see the best bits of it on The Daily WTF! \o/
The "help, we're being invaded, wave our white flags" seems to be true.
Truly, nothing's more reliable than the insight provided by some video game onto a foreign nation's culture and psychology!
French: "My cheese!"
French: "Quick, my emergency white flag!"
Ha and I'm French so somehow you can't mod that flamebait!
Ha! So I guess that is what black "holes" are really made of!
which happens to also be a great place for astronomy
Huh? How would be at the poles be any good? You'd only ever get to see 50% of the sky, it won't shield you against the Earth as well as the rest of the hidden face of the Moon (which is the place to go for radio-astronomy) and errr.. what are the advantages again?
And, finding one probably isn't all that hard with a modern telescope... just point it at the Kupier Belt and take a few pictures.
Considered how most objects in the Kuiper belt are smaller and as far away as Pluto, you might want to try with a pair of binoculars instead ;-)
Still no results.
Make that no more, I checked about one hour after I made the comment and also a couple of days later and it was there. Google is just not very consistent.