There are two things i disagree with in your post.
(1) Overly complex software like windows? Overpriced, fine, but overly complex? Last i checked, windows was easier than linux to install for a newbie.
(2) I seriously doubt the farmer in buttfuck sanddune, africa (with 12 kids, mind you) gives a flying fuck about computers, let alone some fucking WEB standards.
Get out of your techie world, and smell fucking poverty. you'll see (if you've got eyes to see WITH) that their needs are WAY fucking different than yours are, so piss off with your propaganda. you just end up looking like a tard.
If you go back about 10 years, you'll probably see the exact same kind of comments about computer geeks. Granted, computers are way more important for the average user now than it was then, whereas chess will probably just stay a passtime at most, but the underlying reason for the comments are the same; differing interests/experiences. I, personally, don't find chess all that exciting, but that's because i suck ass at it (GNUchess licks my ass all the time), and i don't know *anybody* that enjoy chess.
Heck, the same goes for roleplaying. One group isn't into something, doesn't understand it, and thus diss it. Simple.
(1) I personally get a power outage once every 14 days (still need to get a UPS...), and it usually last for what? a few seconds? a few minutes? and it's back up. this is more than enough for one user.
(2) egad. granted, they've been fairly stable the last few weeks, but when i got home from work today, the modem was flashing "disconnected". no idea how long that lasted, but certainly no more than 6 hours. bad, yes... but still sorta good enough for one user (i'm switching ISP the instant i can afford it, tho...).
(3) well, if THAT happens, i'm sure the guy has more on his mind than his email.
(4) very good question.
all of the 4 points of yours are very relevant etc, but seeing as mail will (generally) be delivered up to 4 days after it's sent, points 1 and 2 don't really matter that much. they're annoying, yes... exceedingly so... but they're not ESSENTIAL. nobody's mail is that important:) 3 and 4, however, threaten mail delivery a lot more than 1 and 2, but for the normal home-user, getting their mail isn't THAT important.
the point of this post was to put things into perspective. businesses can NOT afford downtime, whereas a home-user can (it only affects HIM, not thousands of people). it's all a matter of how much time/money they want to put into the whole thing (not to mention the fact that having your own mail server which YOU admin, is just generally cool... or you're not a proper geek and shouldn't run a server anyway:).
a (imo) more important issue than connectivity/hardware uptime would be system security... that's where most of the DIY setups would fail... can you say "sendmail"?:)
(1) sendmail is notorious for exploits. I'd say avoid. postfix or qmail would be a much safer bet.
(2) qpopper has a few exploits against it... that makes ME think it isn't safe enough.
(3) don't hardcode your IP. you will give yourself (and your ISP) a headache when that IP is assigned to someone else, just like some other (don't remember who it was, offhand, but he replied to your post)... and an ISP that gets a headache because of a user == an unhappy ISP:)
Erm.. eh... oh, right. That guy has to learn how to spell, eh? Well, if that's the case, you, sir, needs to learn some fucking grammar.
"Learn to spell faggot", eh? Make that "Learn to spell, faggot", and you're closer to the real deal.
"Your making Slashdot...", eh? Make that "You're making Slashdot...".
BTW, "grammer" eh? "grammar", you fucking dolt.
Next time, before you rag down on someone's spelling, make sure your own posting is spot-on perfect. Otherwise you'll just look like a fucking idiot... just like you just managed to do just now.
I'm sorry, sir, your rifle is incompatible with your version of glibc, please reconfigure and recompile. Bear in mind you'll need some aiming kernel patches (found here (fixes some aiming bugs, and tightens general rifle handling security)). The aiming kernel patches fixes a severe bug which has caused several people to shoot themselves in the root. Please be advised, this is NOT a drill.
Linux is ready for the desktop of Power Users (tm). Not Newbies (tm).
Power users tend to be satisfied with sitting down and fiddling a bit to get things working. Newbies aren't. Think of Windows as an introductory course, and Linux as an advanced course. Do you want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be in the advanced course, going "AIEEEEEEEE! I CAN'T GET (insert random item/program/whatever) TO WORK! HEEEEEEEEEELP!" and a few people just sitting in the corner hacking away, not saying squat... or do you want all those aieee guys somewhere else, and all the people with the know-how and the drive to actually figure things out by themselves where they belong?
I for one want them separated, and have them migrated when they're ready. Not before.
BTW, Linux can become a heck of a lot easier to use. Man pages aren't easy to use for a newbie (think "WHAT THE FUCK IS THE COMMAND FOR (insert random thing to do)?!?!?", and I'm sure you get the idea). A console isn't easy to use for a newbie. It IS, however, easy enough for someone who started out in DOS or something similar, and those users are (to be blunt) somewhat pragmatic and elitist in their views. Linux works nicely, but it is NOT as friendly as you make it out to be.
I used IRC for one purpose only... hang out with friends. Not friends i've actually met either... just people I like to hang out with because they're as technically savvy as I am, or they're just funny (no, i did NOT frequent one of the teen channels, or any of the high-profile chat channels (400+ users, all wanting to netsex at the same time is not my idea of fun).
However, that came to a halt a month ago, when i got so utterly fed up with the constant flow of idiots. It's very easy to say "but i don't want to RTFM, why don't you just tell me?" when you join a channel (and if it's a low-traffic channel, you might even get an answer)... however, whenever the channel is up into like 2-3000 users joining a day, answering each and every question becomes a chore... and thus you get disgruntled ops.
I don't suppose you've logged on to irc.debian.org and joined #debian, or am I mistaken?
As for you being kicked out of a linux channel without saying anything does NOT necessarily have anything to do with what you did in that channel, but it DOES have more to do with how the two camps (linux and windows) are high profile... and high profile means lots of fucking idiots. You seem to have been the victim of just that, an idiot on your isp (or even better, lots of idiots). How are they supposed to deal with someone who continuously comes in and annoys the shit out of everybody? Simple. They shit the whole ISP (or a specific subnet of it). Happens in all the big channels on IRC.
For an example of idiots, look at all the Anonymous Cowards we get... and we can't even get rid of those.
PS: what linux zealot has NOT thought of going into a channel like #windows (does that even exist? i haven't checked) and say "WINDOZE SUX, LINUX RULZ!" (spelling fuckups intended, since that seems to be the general spelling skills idiots like that seem to possess)?
"goofy roller clicker thing"? I bought a logitech pilot+ once (with a goofy roller clicker thing) after i killed my original logitech pilot (true 3 button) mouse. Never looked back. ever. I was practically hooked on the mousewheel after using it for just an hour.
Right now, however, i own a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer, and quite frankly, I'm in love with the last 2 buttons. I wince every time i have to use a button without those buttons, let alone without that mousewheel.
Another thing, the IME fits my hand quite nicely, contrary to the pilot+, which was so small, i constantly got a cramp whenever i played a game for an extended amount of time (5+ hour gaming sessions have been known to occur).
As for the keyboard, however, I recently went back to using an old clicky 286 keyboard, because i broke the (non-windows keyed) keyboard i got with my first computer (p90, 4 years ago). I wasn't happy with that, since i'd worn down the keys to a nice, shiny state... i'd even worn away 95% of the text on the "m" key... And I refuse to get a natural keyboard simply because it's different from what i'm used to. Heck, i've refrained from using this clicky keyboard up until now simply because the ' key is in a different place from what i'm used to (4 years of DEEPLY ingrown typing habits are hard to change).
Huh? what the fuck? X wasn't difficult to set up... apt-get install (insert 3-4 packages i can't remember right now), run XF86Setup, then run startx. What the fuck kind of college did YOU go to that had SUCH low standards on CompSci courses?
I keep reading and re-reading this post, and i can only come up with "whoa. my sentiments exactly."
The elitist bunch of users, however, is the exact kind of people linux REALLY doesn't need too many of. People need to learn to sit back and see not just what CAN be done, but what can be done most efficiently. If a person knows NT, why FORCE him into using linux? On the flipside, if a guy knows linux, why force HIM into using NT? It's all a matter of "everything has its place", which sadly a lot of zealots (in both worlds) utterly fail to see.
Contrary to what's common to say about linux nowadays, it is NOT ready to be used on the common user's desktop. Linux still require you to spend a fair bit of time just to get it installed, let alone using it.
I'll be the first to agree, however, that once it's installed, the picture becomes less blurred, but linux is still more demanding than MS's OSs.
I can mention one reason I'll recommend Win2K over linux for a normal user (I'll refrain from mentioning Win9x, since they aren't even competing with linux with regards to stability)... The help system. In linux you either have to download some help system (haven't found one yet, but I haven't looked either, the man system works fine for me), or (shock horror) type stuff to figure out stuff... let's not mention you have to know WHAT to look for in the first place. Win2K's help system is a lot better in that regard, and no matter what you (or anyone else says), that, combined with the fact Win2K IS a lot better than the other MS OSs I've tried... just convinces me right then and there.
PS: I still use linux, but on a more professional level (servers etc). I do run one computer with linux as its main os for my own use, but that isn't my main computer.
While I agree Windows has some ways to go before it's a really REALLY good OS, it is NOT *THAT* bad. Granted, Windows 9x lacks a lot in the way of security etc (and has a mindnumbingly annoying need for being re-installed every few months, but that's because i fuck with it a lot), but what I've seen of Win2K (yes, i've been running it for the last month and a half) gives me a lot better picture overall (for the USER, not a geek who likes to pore through 412349324 lines of code a day just to make stuff work). I haven't seen any of the 64000 "bugs" (32000 bugs and 32000 things that users wants solved another way IIRC)... maybe that's because it's not all that easy to FIND those bugs (i.e. they're in obscure places etc). Altho I have found the Driver Upgrade Wizard to be exceptionally slow when *I* want to find an updated driver (it chugs the HD 15 seconds or so... that HAS to be fixed, it's way too annoying, even tho I update a driver like once every month or so).
I want a web server? It's easy to set up, and even easier to configure. Serves the main thing any NORMAL user might want to use a web server for, maybe even a small-time website (no idea how well it scales, so no comment on that). Same with FTP servers. In linux however, you have to fetch that from somewhere else, or *gasp, shock, horror!* you have to TYPE STUFF to get it installed. No matter what the average linux user says, the normal computer user ISN'T ready for that, and they never will be. How many NORMAL (not geeks or freaks, NORMAL) people do YOU know that would want to go under the hood of a car just to get it started, when another car has the ignition inside the car, ready to be turned?
Linux has its place among servers and as power-user desktop OS's, and that is pretty much how I foresee it for the next 2-4 years. Going around saying "Windows must die! GO LINUX!" is really rather pathetic, seeing as the idea behind linux... is diversity.
You want a war? fine. go to bosnia or something. Desktop OS's isn't a place to define as a war-zone. It's a place where people can pick and choose amongst several contenders as their needs etc demand, not a place for other people's needs to be advocated as the One True Way of Doing Things (tm).
I can understand a passing interest in Intel announcing their next generation (of sorts), but what makes me go "ugh, how pathetic" is how people kept whining about the name... of all things.
I seem to remember people bitching about Intel ditching calling the pentium 586, because it "was confusing", since people were used to calling the processors x86... and now we're whining and bitching because they're KEEPING a name?
Slashdot Mirror
and ... that would accomplish what? the words "jack shit" comes to mind. can you say "backups"? good doggie. sit, ubu. sit.
There are two things i disagree with in your post.
(1) Overly complex software like windows? Overpriced, fine, but overly complex? Last i checked, windows was easier than linux to install for a newbie.
(2) I seriously doubt the farmer in buttfuck sanddune, africa (with 12 kids, mind you) gives a flying fuck about computers, let alone some fucking WEB standards.
Get out of your techie world, and smell fucking poverty. you'll see (if you've got eyes to see WITH) that their needs are WAY fucking different than yours are, so piss off with your propaganda. you just end up looking like a tard.
and lawsuit manuals :)
If you go back about 10 years, you'll probably see the exact same kind of comments about computer geeks. Granted, computers are way more important for the average user now than it was then, whereas chess will probably just stay a passtime at most, but the underlying reason for the comments are the same; differing interests/experiences. I, personally, don't find chess all that exciting, but that's because i suck ass at it (GNUchess licks my ass all the time), and i don't know *anybody* that enjoy chess.
Heck, the same goes for roleplaying. One group isn't into something, doesn't understand it, and thus diss it. Simple.
(1) I personally get a power outage once every 14 days (still need to get a UPS...), and it usually last for what? a few seconds? a few minutes? and it's back up. this is more than enough for one user.
:) 3 and 4, however, threaten mail delivery a lot more than 1 and 2, but for the normal home-user, getting their mail isn't THAT important.
:).
:)
(2) egad. granted, they've been fairly stable the last few weeks, but when i got home from work today, the modem was flashing "disconnected". no idea how long that lasted, but certainly no more than 6 hours. bad, yes... but still sorta good enough for one user (i'm switching ISP the instant i can afford it, tho...).
(3) well, if THAT happens, i'm sure the guy has more on his mind than his email.
(4) very good question.
all of the 4 points of yours are very relevant etc, but seeing as mail will (generally) be delivered up to 4 days after it's sent, points 1 and 2 don't really matter that much. they're annoying, yes... exceedingly so... but they're not ESSENTIAL. nobody's mail is that important
the point of this post was to put things into perspective. businesses can NOT afford downtime, whereas a home-user can (it only affects HIM, not thousands of people). it's all a matter of how much time/money they want to put into the whole thing (not to mention the fact that having your own mail server which YOU admin, is just generally cool... or you're not a proper geek and shouldn't run a server anyway
a (imo) more important issue than connectivity/hardware uptime would be system security... that's where most of the DIY setups would fail... can you say "sendmail"?
this comment cracks me up just as much as people saying "sendmail is secure now... honest!", only to have a root exploit the next day.
granted, the last time THAT happened, it was a local root exploit, but it still makes me chuckle.
sendmail? a win2k-based server? *cough* recipe for disaster, both of'em.
(1) sendmail is notorious for exploits. I'd say avoid. postfix or qmail would be a much safer bet.
:)
(2) qpopper has a few exploits against it... that makes ME think it isn't safe enough.
(3) don't hardcode your IP. you will give yourself (and your ISP) a headache when that IP is assigned to someone else, just like some other (don't remember who it was, offhand, but he replied to your post)... and an ISP that gets a headache because of a user == an unhappy ISP
er. sendmail is notorious for having exploits. don't use it.
Erm.. eh... oh, right. That guy has to learn how to spell, eh? Well, if that's the case, you, sir, needs to learn some fucking grammar.
"Learn to spell faggot", eh? Make that "Learn to spell, faggot", and you're closer to the real deal.
"Your making Slashdot...", eh? Make that "You're making Slashdot...".
BTW, "grammer" eh? "grammar", you fucking dolt.
Next time, before you rag down on someone's spelling, make sure your own posting is spot-on perfect. Otherwise you'll just look like a fucking idiot... just like you just managed to do just now.
There seems to be some indications that it's just for those with lingering beta files lying about, and not those doing fresh installs.
I'm sorry, sir, your rifle is incompatible with your version of glibc, please reconfigure and recompile. Bear in mind you'll need some aiming kernel patches (found here (fixes some aiming bugs, and tightens general rifle handling security)). The aiming kernel patches fixes a severe bug which has caused several people to shoot themselves in the root. Please be advised, this is NOT a drill.
shows fame is a two-edged sword... (not a broadsword then :)
:)
It could (in some cases) be described as a daikatana
Well, what do you know...
:)
/home/reaper/source/_____.c
Gee, look at that.
Linux is ready for the desktop of Power Users (tm). Not Newbies (tm).
Power users tend to be satisfied with sitting down and fiddling a bit to get things working. Newbies aren't. Think of Windows as an introductory course, and Linux as an advanced course. Do you want every Tom, Dick and Harry to be in the advanced course, going "AIEEEEEEEE! I CAN'T GET (insert random item/program/whatever) TO WORK! HEEEEEEEEEELP!" and a few people just sitting in the corner hacking away, not saying squat... or do you want all those aieee guys somewhere else, and all the people with the know-how and the drive to actually figure things out by themselves where they belong?
I for one want them separated, and have them migrated when they're ready. Not before.
BTW, Linux can become a heck of a lot easier to use. Man pages aren't easy to use for a newbie (think "WHAT THE FUCK IS THE COMMAND FOR (insert random thing to do)?!?!?", and I'm sure you get the idea). A console isn't easy to use for a newbie. It IS, however, easy enough for someone who started out in DOS or something similar, and those users are (to be blunt) somewhat pragmatic and elitist in their views. Linux works nicely, but it is NOT as friendly as you make it out to be.
I used IRC for one purpose only... hang out with friends. Not friends i've actually met either... just people I like to hang out with because they're as technically savvy as I am, or they're just funny (no, i did NOT frequent one of the teen channels, or any of the high-profile chat channels (400+ users, all wanting to netsex at the same time is not my idea of fun).
However, that came to a halt a month ago, when i got so utterly fed up with the constant flow of idiots. It's very easy to say "but i don't want to RTFM, why don't you just tell me?" when you join a channel (and if it's a low-traffic channel, you might even get an answer)... however, whenever the channel is up into like 2-3000 users joining a day, answering each and every question becomes a chore... and thus you get disgruntled ops.
IRC is what you make of it.
I don't suppose you've logged on to irc.debian.org and joined #debian, or am I mistaken?
As for you being kicked out of a linux channel without saying anything does NOT necessarily have anything to do with what you did in that channel, but it DOES have more to do with how the two camps (linux and windows) are high profile... and high profile means lots of fucking idiots. You seem to have been the victim of just that, an idiot on your isp (or even better, lots of idiots). How are they supposed to deal with someone who continuously comes in and annoys the shit out of everybody? Simple. They shit the whole ISP (or a specific subnet of it). Happens in all the big channels on IRC.
For an example of idiots, look at all the Anonymous Cowards we get... and we can't even get rid of those.
PS: what linux zealot has NOT thought of going into a channel like #windows (does that even exist? i haven't checked) and say "WINDOZE SUX, LINUX RULZ!" (spelling fuckups intended, since that seems to be the general spelling skills idiots like that seem to possess)?
"goofy roller clicker thing"? I bought a logitech pilot+ once (with a goofy roller clicker thing) after i killed my original logitech pilot (true 3 button) mouse. Never looked back. ever. I was practically hooked on the mousewheel after using it for just an hour.
Right now, however, i own a Microsoft Intellimouse Explorer, and quite frankly, I'm in love with the last 2 buttons. I wince every time i have to use a button without those buttons, let alone without that mousewheel.
Another thing, the IME fits my hand quite nicely, contrary to the pilot+, which was so small, i constantly got a cramp whenever i played a game for an extended amount of time (5+ hour gaming sessions have been known to occur).
As for the keyboard, however, I recently went back to using an old clicky 286 keyboard, because i broke the (non-windows keyed) keyboard i got with my first computer (p90, 4 years ago). I wasn't happy with that, since i'd worn down the keys to a nice, shiny state... i'd even worn away 95% of the text on the "m" key... And I refuse to get a natural keyboard simply because it's different from what i'm used to. Heck, i've refrained from using this clicky keyboard up until now simply because the ' key is in a different place from what i'm used to (4 years of DEEPLY ingrown typing habits are hard to change).
Huh? what the fuck? X wasn't difficult to set up... apt-get install (insert 3-4 packages i can't remember right now), run XF86Setup, then run startx. What the fuck kind of college did YOU go to that had SUCH low standards on CompSci courses?
Jeez.
I keep reading and re-reading this post, and i can only come up with "whoa. my sentiments exactly."
The elitist bunch of users, however, is the exact kind of people linux REALLY doesn't need too many of. People need to learn to sit back and see not just what CAN be done, but what can be done most efficiently. If a person knows NT, why FORCE him into using linux? On the flipside, if a guy knows linux, why force HIM into using NT? It's all a matter of "everything has its place", which sadly a lot of zealots (in both worlds) utterly fail to see.
Contrary to what's common to say about linux nowadays, it is NOT ready to be used on the common user's desktop. Linux still require you to spend a fair bit of time just to get it installed, let alone using it.
I'll be the first to agree, however, that once it's installed, the picture becomes less blurred, but linux is still more demanding than MS's OSs.
I can mention one reason I'll recommend Win2K over linux for a normal user (I'll refrain from mentioning Win9x, since they aren't even competing with linux with regards to stability)... The help system. In linux you either have to download some help system (haven't found one yet, but I haven't looked either, the man system works fine for me), or (shock horror) type stuff to figure out stuff... let's not mention you have to know WHAT to look for in the first place. Win2K's help system is a lot better in that regard, and no matter what you (or anyone else says), that, combined with the fact Win2K IS a lot better than the other MS OSs I've tried... just convinces me right then and there.
PS: I still use linux, but on a more professional level (servers etc). I do run one computer with linux as its main os for my own use, but that isn't my main computer.
What bullshit!
While I agree Windows has some ways to go before it's a really REALLY good OS, it is NOT *THAT* bad. Granted, Windows 9x lacks a lot in the way of security etc (and has a mindnumbingly annoying need for being re-installed every few months, but that's because i fuck with it a lot), but what I've seen of Win2K (yes, i've been running it for the last month and a half) gives me a lot better picture overall (for the USER, not a geek who likes to pore through 412349324 lines of code a day just to make stuff work). I haven't seen any of the 64000 "bugs" (32000 bugs and 32000 things that users wants solved another way IIRC)... maybe that's because it's not all that easy to FIND those bugs (i.e. they're in obscure places etc). Altho I have found the Driver Upgrade Wizard to be exceptionally slow when *I* want to find an updated driver (it chugs the HD 15 seconds or so... that HAS to be fixed, it's way too annoying, even tho I update a driver like once every month or so).
I want a web server? It's easy to set up, and even easier to configure. Serves the main thing any NORMAL user might want to use a web server for, maybe even a small-time website (no idea how well it scales, so no comment on that). Same with FTP servers. In linux however, you have to fetch that from somewhere else, or *gasp, shock, horror!* you have to TYPE STUFF to get it installed. No matter what the average linux user says, the normal computer user ISN'T ready for that, and they never will be. How many NORMAL (not geeks or freaks, NORMAL) people do YOU know that would want to go under the hood of a car just to get it started, when another car has the ignition inside the car, ready to be turned?
Linux has its place among servers and as power-user desktop OS's, and that is pretty much how I foresee it for the next 2-4 years. Going around saying "Windows must die! GO LINUX!" is really rather pathetic, seeing as the idea behind linux... is diversity.
You want a war? fine. go to bosnia or something. Desktop OS's isn't a place to define as a war-zone. It's a place where people can pick and choose amongst several contenders as their needs etc demand, not a place for other people's needs to be advocated as the One True Way of Doing Things (tm).
I can understand a passing interest in Intel announcing their next generation (of sorts), but what makes me go "ugh, how pathetic" is how people kept whining about the name... of all things.
Nah. I think it's time to bring out the carving knife now :)
I seem to remember people bitching about Intel ditching calling the pentium 586, because it "was confusing", since people were used to calling the processors x86... and now we're whining and bitching because they're KEEPING a name?
I like consistency... too bad this ain't it.