Lets not forget there are also states, like my own, that often have "non-binding" questions, where the question goes to the ballot but its really people are voting to "instruct the legislature to enact legislation..." meaning, the people spoke, but its still up to the legislature to write and pass a law, which they are really not actually required to do and there is no garauntee they will.
That said I think unreasonably complicated is what it is not. If you remember that it is supposed to be a federation of states and not an imperial government, it makes a lot of sense.
This. Not just this but this sort of moralizing and racism really goes well with jobs programs.
Lets not forget, when prohibition ended, it left a number of federal employees with budgets to burn and fuck all to do. They were not stupid, that is no recipe for job security. Harry Anslinger, one of the most vocal proponants of the marijuana laws of the day, was head of the FBN, the very people who were left with fuck all to do after prohibition ended.
Who better to justify law enforcement jobs than people who are seen as "immoral" or inferior and in need of being kept in their place? The thing about it is.... its a story so crazy you almost can't make shit like this up.
Good ole Harry spent years writting letters to police chiefs, asking them to keep their eye on "jazz musicians"....seriously.... claiming one day, they were going to have an operation to round them all up. One great quote of his that sums it all up:
Most marijuana smokers are Negroes, Hispanics, jazz musicians, and entertainers. Their satanic music is driven by marijuana, and marijuana smoking by white women makes them want to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and others. It is a drug that causes insanity, criminality, and death â" the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind.
This is from a man who testified before congress and was taken seriously.
> People perceive crime to be getting worse all the time (despite it going down), seems to support the idea > that people fear it.
Yes but living in fear? Not going outside? Sorry, I just don't see that. I can't think of the last time I had a person express that much fear about it. Yes, in polls people think its increasing....that doesn't mean they actually dwell on it that much.
> If there were no guns, what would the gangs look like?
They would still have guns, because it is ridiculous to even pose the question of what things would be like without guns, they are far too trivial to make. Almost nobody actually does manufacture their own or do illegal small scale manufacture, but, the best you could do is incentivise more of that to happen.
Sure you may be able to then arrest more people, and pat yourself on the back for that....but arresting the criminals you created with bad policy is at best a jobs program.
Lol that was nasty? A little quibbling over use of TLAs is hardly nasty. I bet this thread could go 8 or 10 more posts before anyone got compared to a nazi.
But you didn't say one time password, you said OTP. Now, its clearly an overloaded TLA and that is easy enough to verify but, using TLAs in general is actually confusing because pretty much all of them are overloaded already, though.... this one gets a somewhat rare distinction of being overloaded in the same field.
I mean, you don't see car mechanics going around referring to your coil packs as distributors.
As I said, I think it makes sense to do away with OTP=One time pad since its not actually useful, but, since its been used academically that way for so long, I think its pretty reasonable to assume that using it other ways will continue to cause confusion amongst people who are familiar enough with encryption to have studied one time pads (since they are still useful for concept teaching) but who don't do PCI audits for a living.
Interesting, amusingly I have come to hate TLAs just because of the overload factor; but this one makes a lot of sense, like I said....why would we even need a TLA for one time pads when the vast majority of all discussion around one time pads is either in the context of explaining cryptography concepts.
Pretty much the only people who have any business knowing anything about one time pads are military historians and people studying crypto academically, whereas, I know many people with one time password tokens who actually use them.
You can eliminate that secure channel to amex, or at least decouple it with some crypto tokens.
So it could be 1. I, at some point before any transactions, contact AMEX and load up on signed payment tokens. 2. At time of purchase, I attach payment info and sign the a token; I mark that token as used. 3. Merchant confims token amount and veracity with AMEX public key 4. Merchant sends token to AMEX to claim the spend. 5. AMEX verifies tokens and token uniqueness and logs it to my account.
Pretty sure from context OP is confusing OTP with sequence based tokens, especially since OTP is not two factor without layering something else with it.
Clearly, you are right about OTP and its for those reasons that nobody (or as close to nobody as matters) actually uses OTP for anything anymore; which really makes it more likely OP was confused about terminology than actually suggesting someone actually use OTP operationally in this day and age.
Also, I asked a co-worker about this, he took longer than wikipedia to respond but I think his response was more appropriate and one I have heard before... "One time password".
Kind of makes sense to reclaim "OTP" since we hardly need a TLA for something nobody actually uses seriously.
I think your argument is flawed in that you say we "would rather have a non-zero number of kids and adults die each year from gun violence than give up hand guns and other firearms." since the option of having zero people of any age die of gun violence is not and never was actually an option that even could be honestly on the table.
Its really just not correct to put it in those terms at all.
"I'm not afraid to go for a walk or jog at night....All too many Americans are living in fear, and it's mostly due to gun violence."
Living in fear? Really? Could have fooled me. Perception is not reality. Violent crime rates in the US have been falling for a generation now, and yet, every year people are polled they claim to believe the trend is exactly the opposite....every year.
Sure around some cities there are bad neighborhoods, mostly ones ravaged by the drug war which has created a number of violent drug gangs. The much of this gun violence as you call it is actually gang violence and usually gang member on gang member, with occasional others.
Quite simply, guns did not create our gang problem, that was done by a mix of poverty, the drug war, and general boneheaded inability to admit a policy is bad and rather unchecked fetish for conflict escalation amongst policy makers.
Do you have private prisons and owners of private prisons who basically can write the law? Do you have people doing ungodly amounts of time for simple non-violent drug crime? Do you offer addicts little to no viable treatment paths unless they are at least middle class or better?
Do you combine all that with swat raids at the drop of a hat? How many "million dollar blocks" do you have in your cities?
even if it takes 2000 man hours, never underestimate the power of overtime pay. Its not like anyone is ever going to say "you spent 2000 hours on that? What the fuck is wrong with you". As long as the hours get used up for something they can put in a category, they are happy as pigs in shit.
When actual cost is completely external, nearly anything can be justified with the flimsiest of excuse.
Meh, it takes all kinds though doesn't it? Sure he is more provocateur than innovator but, do we really just need one and not the other? Rosa parks was an activist who provoked response purposefully with a mostly symbolic act; but knowing that she wasn't just another tired and opinionated black woman doesn't diminish my respect for her. If anything it increases my respect for her, being willing to actually be the lighting rod.
This CNC mill is not so much special technologically, whats special about it was how it was designed and marketed. Would they have become available anyway? Likely. Would they be as cheap anyway? Likely. However, the point of the whole project isn't really technical, its social.
People in general, and regulators, are used to a world where the means of production is in the hands of the few and banning things was a power that government had. I say had because, what I don't think people realize is the very core of what Defense Distributed's fight is really about..... the era of being able to ban things is coming to an end.
I think there is value in preparing people for that.
Well there is very little evidence of a gay gene however there is a fair amount of evidence for sexual orientation and that it is influenced by very early, congenital (that is, in the womb but not genetic) factors. For example, second and third born sons are more likely to be gay than first born (not something you would expect from a genetic factor). Also there is the finger length evidence which suggests differences in hormone levels.
All that said, it does seem that there is a spectrum from, homosexual to heterosexual with plenty of variation in between. The edge cases of strict homo and heterosexuals are interesting to study but the map is hardly the territory.
Yes release not a drop because you want them to suspect intelligence services. The point is not to release all their info, which would have other benefits but, to make them outraged to make them question the intentions of those who would violate them.
The point is to make it about the act of spying not about the results of spying. You don't want the fallout from the scandal to overshadow the scandal.
My thought was more like the Merkle incident. A friend of mine, with much snark, pointed out that it was funny how some of the very same people who defended mass surveillance suddenly changed their tune when it was someone with a name, a "real person"
The american people are not a "real person". The public is just an abstract collection. Merkle is a real person....so make sure it happens to lots and lots of people who they see as "real people". Make them all outraged.
You know, that is not the worst idea...better though, make it backfire.
So a stealthy network of proxies? So that means J Random Hacker is indistinguishable from Agent Bob?
Use this against Mayors, DAs, Governors, State legislators, State Reps, Police chiefs.... and release not a drop of the information found, instead....just make sure you eventually get discovered and the full extent of it gets exposed.
Then without a leaking group taking responsibility, blame will be tossed around, and nobody using such tools or even suspected of using them will be able to fully shake the blame.
But why would thhey do it? Remember the old question "Who benefits?".
Thing is, once they have the cable to your house, providing TV access over TV+Internet really costs them no more. The only difference is the number of subscribers reported to their suppliers and advertisers.
My assumption would be that their licensing costs + advertising revenue per customer results ina net profit per customer to them....so in essence, you agreeing to recieve the service means that the cable service is actually subsidizing your internet service.
Seems to me like blame should be placed where it is deserved....with any people who freak out and panic. It is their panic which creates unsafe situations. See something, say something, get removed from society for the good of everyone around your paranoid delusions.
Well it was at least 3 years before that when I was working at a school that had a student use his pc in his office to spam through our mail relays for his consulting business. I bring it up because, we clearly had IPs in the logs, but the networking group sent someone out to the office anyway.... to get the MAC address, so we could close the correlate the IP of the spammer, with the DHCP logs, with the MAC on his machine.
Now this was a University office (he was a grad student), so the network engineer called campus police to let her in, but the user showed up before they did and....lol let her in! Police showed up just in time for her to tell the officer she had verified the MAC, and they took Mr Spammer off for a talk about acceptable use and how he will not be using university computer resources unless he moves to another school. (not his first offense).
So I left that job at least 2 years before 2007 so, school network admins were already looking to close gaps like that in their investigations of AUP violations prior to that, so its pretty believable to me that would want more than IP.
Reminds me of this Democrat who came around knocking on doors. Of course she immediately assumed I was a republican when I told her I wasn't voting for her candidate, that is until I mentioned my support for the green party candidate, which clearly annoyed her even more.
"Well I hope you at least are going to support keeping our state sales tax where it is" (there was a question about lowering it back to where it was a few years back), to which I looked her in the eye and said "Well, the sales tax is fundamentally pretty regressive anyway, don't you think"
Oh the scowl she gave me..... there really ARE some things money can't buy.
Well lets see. Normally when one climbs, one reaches an area smaller than the one below, with longer ways to fall, and less oxygen to maintain proper life function and maintain a clear head and focus....yes...yes their analogy works fine.
I might be surprised, but aside from being an atheist, I grew up catholic and went to catholic schools. It was a private Catholic school, run by one of the church's religious orders, where I had high school biology and learned about evolution....that was 20 years ago now.
> A fine won't do it, since innocent shareholders will suffer.
How and why are shareholders innocent? They bought part of the company, the company behaved badly and got fined, they, as part owners, are partly responsible. Them taking a hit on share price is absolutely just, and I see no reason to make any special exceptions for them just to avoid that.
Now if the shareholders then wish to claim they were wronged by bad decisions the company made which were against the best interests of the shareholders, I wouldn't say they are wrong, but it really is a separate issue.
Now seeing the company first fined, then have its stock slide, and then be sued by its shareholders....THAT seems like it would send the right message, don't you think?
In one case you have a small sample (given the size of the public from which they are drawn from, a puny number) of people who actively work to stifle speech of individuals. This doesn't sound like trolling at all to me, it sounds like personal harassment.
This person made no threat at all. All negative consquences were the result of people overreacting based on nothing but a name on a device. It barely even qualifies as a joke.
Frankly, this is a prime example of why orgs like the TSA need to be held financially responsible for the damage they cause. Oh Delayed flight? Take the cost of every ticket on that plane out of TSA salaries. See if that shit happens again.
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Lets not forget there are also states, like my own, that often have "non-binding" questions, where the question goes to the ballot but its really people are voting to "instruct the legislature to enact legislation..." meaning, the people spoke, but its still up to the legislature to write and pass a law, which they are really not actually required to do and there is no garauntee they will.
That said I think unreasonably complicated is what it is not. If you remember that it is supposed to be a federation of states and not an imperial government, it makes a lot of sense.
This. Not just this but this sort of moralizing and racism really goes well with jobs programs.
Lets not forget, when prohibition ended, it left a number of federal employees with budgets to burn and fuck all to do. They were not stupid, that is no recipe for job security. Harry Anslinger, one of the most vocal proponants of the marijuana laws of the day, was head of the FBN, the very people who were left with fuck all to do after prohibition ended.
Who better to justify law enforcement jobs than people who are seen as "immoral" or inferior and in need of being kept in their place? The thing about it is.... its a story so crazy you almost can't make shit like this up.
Good ole Harry spent years writting letters to police chiefs, asking them to keep their eye on "jazz musicians"....seriously.... claiming one day, they were going to have an operation to round them all up. One great quote of his that sums it all up:
This is from a man who testified before congress and was taken seriously.
> People perceive crime to be getting worse all the time (despite it going down), seems to support the idea
> that people fear it.
Yes but living in fear? Not going outside? Sorry, I just don't see that. I can't think of the last time I had a person express that much fear about it. Yes, in polls people think its increasing....that doesn't mean they actually dwell on it that much.
> If there were no guns, what would the gangs look like?
They would still have guns, because it is ridiculous to even pose the question of what things would be like without guns, they are far too trivial to make. Almost nobody actually does manufacture their own or do illegal small scale manufacture, but, the best you could do is incentivise more of that to happen.
Sure you may be able to then arrest more people, and pat yourself on the back for that....but arresting the criminals you created with bad policy is at best a jobs program.
Lol that was nasty? A little quibbling over use of TLAs is hardly nasty. I bet this thread could go 8 or 10 more posts before anyone got compared to a nazi.
But you didn't say one time password, you said OTP. Now, its clearly an overloaded TLA and that is easy enough to verify but, using TLAs in general is actually confusing because pretty much all of them are overloaded already, though.... this one gets a somewhat rare distinction of being overloaded in the same field.
I mean, you don't see car mechanics going around referring to your coil packs as distributors.
As I said, I think it makes sense to do away with OTP=One time pad since its not actually useful, but, since its been used academically that way for so long, I think its pretty reasonable to assume that using it other ways will continue to cause confusion amongst people who are familiar enough with encryption to have studied one time pads (since they are still useful for concept teaching) but who don't do PCI audits for a living.
Interesting, amusingly I have come to hate TLAs just because of the overload factor; but this one makes a lot of sense, like I said....why would we even need a TLA for one time pads when the vast majority of all discussion around one time pads is either in the context of explaining cryptography concepts.
Pretty much the only people who have any business knowing anything about one time pads are military historians and people studying crypto academically, whereas, I know many people with one time password tokens who actually use them.
You can eliminate that secure channel to amex, or at least decouple it with some crypto tokens.
So it could be
1. I, at some point before any transactions, contact AMEX and load up on signed payment tokens.
2. At time of purchase, I attach payment info and sign the a token; I mark that token as used.
3. Merchant confims token amount and veracity with AMEX public key
4. Merchant sends token to AMEX to claim the spend.
5. AMEX verifies tokens and token uniqueness and logs it to my account.
Pretty sure from context OP is confusing OTP with sequence based tokens, especially since OTP is not two factor without layering something else with it.
Clearly, you are right about OTP and its for those reasons that nobody (or as close to nobody as matters) actually uses OTP for anything anymore; which really makes it more likely OP was confused about terminology than actually suggesting someone actually use OTP operationally in this day and age.
Also, I asked a co-worker about this, he took longer than wikipedia to respond but I think his response was more appropriate and one I have heard before... "One time password".
Kind of makes sense to reclaim "OTP" since we hardly need a TLA for something nobody actually uses seriously.
Burawhat? Im sorry I don't know, but do you want fries with that or not?
I think your argument is flawed in that you say we "would rather have a non-zero number of kids and adults die each year from gun violence than give up hand guns and other firearms." since the option of having zero people of any age die of gun violence is not and never was actually an option that even could be honestly on the table.
Its really just not correct to put it in those terms at all.
"I'm not afraid to go for a walk or jog at night....All too many Americans are living in fear, and it's mostly due to gun violence."
Living in fear? Really? Could have fooled me. Perception is not reality. Violent crime rates in the US have been falling for a generation now, and yet, every year people are polled they claim to believe the trend is exactly the opposite....every year.
Sure around some cities there are bad neighborhoods, mostly ones ravaged by the drug war which has created a number of violent drug gangs. The much of this gun violence as you call it is actually gang violence and usually gang member on gang member, with occasional others.
Quite simply, guns did not create our gang problem, that was done by a mix of poverty, the drug war, and general boneheaded inability to admit a policy is bad and rather unchecked fetish for conflict escalation amongst policy makers.
Do you have private prisons and owners of private prisons who basically can write the law? Do you have people doing ungodly amounts of time for simple non-violent drug crime? Do you offer addicts little to no viable treatment paths unless they are at least middle class or better?
Do you combine all that with swat raids at the drop of a hat? How many "million dollar blocks" do you have in your cities?
even if it takes 2000 man hours, never underestimate the power of overtime pay. Its not like anyone is ever going to say "you spent 2000 hours on that? What the fuck is wrong with you". As long as the hours get used up for something they can put in a category, they are happy as pigs in shit.
When actual cost is completely external, nearly anything can be justified with the flimsiest of excuse.
Meh, it takes all kinds though doesn't it? Sure he is more provocateur than innovator but, do we really just need one and not the other? Rosa parks was an activist who provoked response purposefully with a mostly symbolic act; but knowing that she wasn't just another tired and opinionated black woman doesn't diminish my respect for her. If anything it increases my respect for her, being willing to actually be the lighting rod.
This CNC mill is not so much special technologically, whats special about it was how it was designed and marketed. Would they have become available anyway? Likely. Would they be as cheap anyway? Likely. However, the point of the whole project isn't really technical, its social.
People in general, and regulators, are used to a world where the means of production is in the hands of the few and banning things was a power that government had. I say had because, what I don't think people realize is the very core of what Defense Distributed's fight is really about..... the era of being able to ban things is coming to an end.
I think there is value in preparing people for that.
Well there is very little evidence of a gay gene however there is a fair amount of evidence for sexual orientation and that it is influenced by very early, congenital (that is, in the womb but not genetic) factors. For example, second and third born sons are more likely to be gay than first born (not something you would expect from a genetic factor). Also there is the finger length evidence which suggests differences in hormone levels.
All that said, it does seem that there is a spectrum from, homosexual to heterosexual with plenty of variation in between. The edge cases of strict homo and heterosexuals are interesting to study but the map is hardly the territory.
Yes release not a drop because you want them to suspect intelligence services. The point is not to release all their info, which would have other benefits but, to make them outraged to make them question the intentions of those who would violate them.
The point is to make it about the act of spying not about the results of spying. You don't want the fallout from the scandal to overshadow the scandal.
That's not so much what I was thinking.
My thought was more like the Merkle incident. A friend of mine, with much snark, pointed out that it was funny how some of the very same people who defended mass surveillance suddenly changed their tune when it was someone with a name, a "real person"
The american people are not a "real person". The public is just an abstract collection. Merkle is a real person....so make sure it happens to lots and lots of people who they see as "real people". Make them all outraged.
You know, that is not the worst idea...better though, make it backfire.
So a stealthy network of proxies? So that means J Random Hacker is indistinguishable from Agent Bob?
Use this against Mayors, DAs, Governors, State legislators, State Reps, Police chiefs.... and release not a drop of the information found, instead....just make sure you eventually get discovered and the full extent of it gets exposed.
Then without a leaking group taking responsibility, blame will be tossed around, and nobody using such tools or even suspected of using them will be able to fully shake the blame.
But why would thhey do it? Remember the old question "Who benefits?".
Thing is, once they have the cable to your house, providing TV access over TV+Internet really costs them no more. The only difference is the number of subscribers reported to their suppliers and advertisers.
My assumption would be that their licensing costs + advertising revenue per customer results ina net profit per customer to them....so in essence, you agreeing to recieve the service means that the cable service is actually subsidizing your internet service.
Seems to me like blame should be placed where it is deserved....with any people who freak out and panic. It is their panic which creates unsafe situations. See something, say something, get removed from society for the good of everyone around your paranoid delusions.
Well it was at least 3 years before that when I was working at a school that had a student use his pc in his office to spam through our mail relays for his consulting business. I bring it up because, we clearly had IPs in the logs, but the networking group sent someone out to the office anyway.... to get the MAC address, so we could close the correlate the IP of the spammer, with the DHCP logs, with the MAC on his machine.
Now this was a University office (he was a grad student), so the network engineer called campus police to let her in, but the user showed up before they did and....lol let her in! Police showed up just in time for her to tell the officer she had verified the MAC, and they took Mr Spammer off for a talk about acceptable use and how he will not be using university computer resources unless he moves to another school. (not his first offense).
So I left that job at least 2 years before 2007 so, school network admins were already looking to close gaps like that in their investigations of AUP violations prior to that, so its pretty believable to me that would want more than IP.
Reminds me of this Democrat who came around knocking on doors. Of course she immediately assumed I was a republican when I told her I wasn't voting for her candidate, that is until I mentioned my support for the green party candidate, which clearly annoyed her even more.
"Well I hope you at least are going to support keeping our state sales tax where it is" (there was a question about lowering it back to where it was a few years back), to which I looked her in the eye and said "Well, the sales tax is fundamentally pretty regressive anyway, don't you think"
Oh the scowl she gave me..... there really ARE some things money can't buy.
Well lets see. Normally when one climbs, one reaches an area smaller than the one below, with longer ways to fall, and less oxygen to maintain proper life function and maintain a clear head and focus....yes...yes their analogy works fine.
I might be surprised, but aside from being an atheist, I grew up catholic and went to catholic schools. It was a private Catholic school, run by one of the church's religious orders, where I had high school biology and learned about evolution....that was 20 years ago now.
> A fine won't do it, since innocent shareholders will suffer.
How and why are shareholders innocent? They bought part of the company, the company behaved badly and got fined, they, as part owners, are partly responsible. Them taking a hit on share price is absolutely just, and I see no reason to make any special exceptions for them just to avoid that.
Now if the shareholders then wish to claim they were wronged by bad decisions the company made which were against the best interests of the shareholders, I wouldn't say they are wrong, but it really is a separate issue.
Now seeing the company first fined, then have its stock slide, and then be sued by its shareholders....THAT seems like it would send the right message, don't you think?
WTF do these have to do with eachother?
In one case you have a small sample (given the size of the public from which they are drawn from, a puny number) of people who actively work to stifle speech of individuals. This doesn't sound like trolling at all to me, it sounds like personal harassment.
This person made no threat at all. All negative consquences were the result of people overreacting based on nothing but a name on a device. It barely even qualifies as a joke.
Frankly, this is a prime example of why orgs like the TSA need to be held financially responsible for the damage they cause. Oh Delayed flight? Take the cost of every ticket on that plane out of TSA salaries. See if that shit happens again.