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Marijuana Legalized In Oregon, Alaska, and Washington DC

Robotron23 writes: Coinciding with the midterm elections yesterday were state ballots proposing the legalization of cannabis. All three territories where full legalization was tabled approved the measure, joining Washington state and Colorado. The narrowest vote was that of Alaska at a roughly 52% to 48% margin. Washington D.C. meanwhile saw the vote strongly tipped in favor of legalization, at about 69% to 31% opposed. Oregon passed its measure by a vote of 55% to 45%. Buoyed by the news, advocates of legal cannabis are already contemplating the next round of state ballots in 2016.

588 comments

  1. But DC is different,no? by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I believe that even though it passed in DC...that congress can put the kibosh on this pretty quick?

    --
    Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    1. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I believe that even though it passed in DC...that congress can put the kibosh on this pretty quick?

      Yep, and it appears that Congress has a history of meddling with local politics in D.C.

    2. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      It's still Federally illegal. Even in any state that it is "legal" it can still be prosecuted. It won't be under the current president, but that can change in 2 years.

    3. Re:But DC is different,no? by aitikin · · Score: 2

      It's still Federally illegal. Even in any state that it is "legal" it can still be prosecuted. It won't be under the current president, but that can change in 2 years.

      Mod parent up. Even if it is legal in Colorado, Washington, Alaska, Oregon, and DC, it's federally illegal. I would be surprised to see the DEA crackdown on it, but legally, they could. Obama has stated that this issue is not of major concern to him and will not be seeking prosecution.

      --
      "Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
    4. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I believe that even though it passed in DC...that congress can put the kibosh on this pretty quick?

      Yep, and it appears that Congress has a history of meddling with local politics in D.C.

      Congress has the authority to do more than meddle:

      To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;

      Don't like it? There's a process for changing it:

      The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

    5. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Congress has the authority [cornell.edu] to do more than meddle:

      The quoted text doesn't really support what you're saying.

      But really, the federal government doesn't even have the constitutional authority to ban drugs to begin with. Absurd interpretations of the commerce clause or other sections of the constitution don't count.

    6. Re:But DC is different,no? by itsenrique · · Score: 3, Insightful

      But one day, just like with the alcohol prohibition, there will probably be national reform. 23 states have medical, and 5 (i believe) have outright decriminalization. I think your point matters a lot more if you are thinking of investing in cannabis/starting a business than if you are just a consumer. What? The feds have enough resources to come into everyones home who smokes the stuff in states and charge them? I guess my point is: yes, its federally illegal. That doesn't mean these laws passing don't have large implications. The next president will probably be cautious about MJ like the current one because it is a hot button issue and legalization seems to be getting more steam every 2 years.

    7. Re:But DC is different,no? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      ...that can change in 2 years.

      Jeb vs Hillary...

      Not bloody likely... The weed thing is very good, but a real dent won't be made until the reelection rates can be reduced to near zero. Note that there are 0(!) independents in the House, none, the opposite of infinite. You have to fix that if you really want 'change'.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    8. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Also remember many jobs will drug test you.

      The feds are taking it to the pocketbook to fight this.

      Lets say you own a gas station and decide to start selling it. Suddenly you will find many deductions you were making in your business are no longer allowed. As currently any business that sells drugs does not get to take deductions in the sale of them.

    9. Re:But DC is different,no? by cogeek · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Obama has stated that this issue is not of major concern to him and will not be seeking prosecution.

      That's what he's stated, but not what he's done. They've raided several marijuana dispensaries and farms here in Colorado.

      How do you know when a politician is lying? When their lips are moving.

    10. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Congress has the authority to do more than meddle:

      To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;

      Under the District of Columbia Home Rule Act, many of those rights were relinquished to the local Washington, D.C. city government. D.C. now has the right to make their own local laws. Congress still manages to meddle, though, mainly by screwing with the way money is spent (which is one aspect of local D.C. politics over which they retained control).

      Read the linked article in the original post.

    11. Re:But DC is different,no? by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      DC was never meant to be a place to live, it is supposed to be a giant industrial/office park, where people go to work... As far as DC is concerned now, congress has no business regulating anything outside the capitol building. But, that's life. Not enough people agree on what to do about it, so they just keep on doing what they're doing.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    12. Re:But DC is different,no? by hawguy · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Also remember many jobs will drug test you.

      This is already being tested in the courts. There's not yet (as far as I know) a test for marijuana intoxication, only detection that you've used marjuana at some point in the past few days/weeks, so there's little justification for testing for marijuana when it's already legal for recreational and/or medicinal use. It's particularly controversial when an employee uses marijuana medicinally -- cough medicine is going to affect employee performance much more than smoking pot over the weekend.

    13. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      True, but most of the arrests and prosecutions involve local governments. Without the state and local police participating, the Feds have to want you pretty badly to come in and do something with pot criminals. They do still make being in the business very difficult. They actively discourage banks from doing business with marijuana retailers. The tax code does not allow them to deduct most expenses that normal businesses would be able to deduct. The feds make it pretty tough. But alcohol prohibition did not start with the repeal of the 18th amendment, it started with states backing away from it until the momentum caused the 21st amendment to pass.

      The Obama administration has not been a friend to marijuana. In the first few years of his administration, it was said that enforcement was worse than under George W. Bush. It seems like things have lightened up a bit in the last couple of years, but that may just be because they can see which way sentiment is moving and thus they are following that.

      Also, we should note that last night Guam legalized medical marijuana. They are the first territory with some legalization, I believe.

    14. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      The only "authority" they have to ban it would involve regulating imports across the national border or ports. They also do have Godlike powers over the D.C. area.

      But drugs (or anything else) produced within a state and sold/distributed/consumed in the same state is not subject to federal oversight. So in order to regulate these things they need to redefine the term "interstate commerce" to include anything that might be assumed to maybe have some vague impact on interstate commerce. For example, growing wheat on your own property and NOT selling it on the national market constitutes interstate commerce since the act of withholding it from interstate commerce has an effect on interstate commerce. You gotta love the mental jumping jacks that serve as the legal foundation for much of the drug war and all federal authority. That's why I always make the case that approximately 90% of ALL federal activity is illegal.

    15. Re:But DC is different,no? by ganjadude · · Score: 3, Informative

      oh there are a lot more decriminalized than 5 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    16. Re:But DC is different,no? by BVis · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What they're really doing when you get forced to take a pre-employment piss test is asserting their power over you, even before they start paying you. You're a criminal/drug addict until you provide a bodily fluid to "prove" otherwise (as urine tests have varying degrees of accuracy). With marijuana especially, they're asserting control over your body (as you could smoke on the first of the month and spike a positive for pot at the end of the month) even during the hours you're not working for them (although, if you're an "exempt" employee, there are no hours that are truly yours; being an "exempt" employee means that you trade having to punch a clock for a fixed salary, no overtime, and the possibility of being required to work 120 hours a week, all legal).

      It's time we stood up to our corporate masters and told them "It's none of your fucking business what's in my urine."

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    17. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congress has the authority to do more than meddle:

      To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten miles square) as may, by cession of particular states, and the acceptance of Congress, become the seat of the government of the United States, and to exercise like authority over all places purchased by the consent of the legislature of the state in which the same shall be, for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals, dockyards, and other needful buildings;

      Under the District of Columbia Home Rule Act, many of those rights were relinquished to the local Washington, D.C. city government. D.C. now has the right to make their own local laws. Congress still manages to meddle, though, mainly by screwing with the way money is spent (which is one aspect of local D.C. politics over which they retained control).

      Read the linked article in the original post.

      What Congress gives by legislation they can take away by legislation.

      Read the Constitution.

      What part of "To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District" is confusing to you?

    18. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congress has the authority [cornell.edu] to do more than meddle:

      The quoted text doesn't really support what you're saying.

      But really, the federal government doesn't even have the constitutional authority to ban drugs to begin with. Absurd interpretations of the commerce clause or other sections of the constitution don't count.

      "To exercise exclusive legislation in all cases whatsoever, over such District"

      Yeah, that's confusing.

      Damn you're derpy.

    19. Re:But DC is different,no? by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      Also remember many jobs will drug test you.

      This is already being tested in the courts. There's not yet (as far as I know) a test for marijuana intoxication, only detection that you've used marjuana at some point in the past few days/weeks, so there's little justification for testing for marijuana when it's already legal for recreational and/or medicinal use. It's particularly controversial when an employee uses marijuana medicinally -- cough medicine is going to affect employee performance much more than smoking pot over the weekend.

      Legality is irrelevent to on the job testing. A valid medical reason would mor ethan likely give the employee a pass but recreational use could still result in adverse actions.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    20. Re:But DC is different,no? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I still have to wonder how this is legal. How can an employer dictate what you do in your spare time?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    21. Re:But DC is different,no? by Opportunist · · Score: 1, Insightful

      How? How on earth is it anyone's business what you do in your spare time? Unless you come to your job intoxicated (and frankly, I'd be more wary of the drunks than the potheads) it's exactly none of any employer's business.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    22. Re:But DC is different,no? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      But the more states legalize, the greater pressure there is for the DEA to back off. Since the public is energized on the police-procedures issue right now, viral videos will bring us the justice that courts won't.

      After all, this election was largely about trimming federal power, which is why the Taliban lost on the issues. Last night Colorado expended reproductive rights and Arizona became the fifth state to pass Right To Try, giving terminal patients the right to buy medications that are in the FDA pipeline but which have not been approved yet.

    23. Re:But DC is different,no? by Moof123 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, but it is much easier and safer for a company to have a blanket policy and just deny people the job.

      Lots of folks get denied a position with no explanation and no recourse. So was your drug test a false positive? You may never know that was the issue. How many folks have failed drug screens over poppy seed bagels? There is a valid gastronomic reason to eat them and they are 100% legal (even in DC!), but once you fail the drug test for traces opiates you are guilty until proven innocent, but often never have a chance to even try or even know to try.

    24. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's definitely a test for marijuana intoxication and it's being used in both Colorado and Washington. http://www.newapproachwa.org/sites/newapproachwa.org/files/I-502%20Factsheet%20-%20DUI.pdf (if you don't like to link directly to pdfs then do the internet search yourself you lazy pot-head).
      Washington uses a 5 ng/mL of THC blood test, which I thinks studies have shown is a pretty good cut-off for occasional users. The tricky part about marijuana is that the brain is better at habituating to the effects than it is to alcohol, and thus regular smokers may have levels easily an order of magnitude higher than this when high, and then may still exceed 5 mg/ml 12 hours after smoking at a point when they feel (and, more importantly, drive) completely sober.

    25. Re:But DC is different,no? by plopez · · Score: 1

      No. It was intended to be neutral ground not under the jurisdiction or control of any state. Because if any state controlled they could in fact hold the central government hostage. See "..for the erection of forts, magazines, arsenals,...".

      In other words an attempt by a state to erect a fort or send in a militia is an act of insurrection.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    26. Re:But DC is different,no? by plopez · · Score: 1

      Actually, Colorado has DUI laws and tests already in place. Don't toke and drive!

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    27. Re:But DC is different,no? by Cajun+Hell · · Score: 0

      But really, the federal government doesn't even have the constitutional authority to ban drugs to begin with. Absurd interpretations of the commerce clause or other sections of the constitution don't count.

      Why are people still talking about constitutional authority? Can't you just accept whatever authority that exists, regardless of the source of its power? I'd think this would be particularly relevant whenever you're talking about things that do, or don't, count.

      The Lord Humungus (Warrior of the Wasteland, The Ayatollah of Rock and Rolla) says he wants your refinery. The topic at hand is whether or not you're going to give it to him, not whose name is written on some deed title document.

      --
      "Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
    28. Re:But DC is different,no? by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why are people still talking about constitutional authority?

      Because that is the basis for ALL our government power, responsibility and authority.

      It is arguable that the Feds for many years have overstepped those few enumerated powers they are supposed to have.

      Many of us in the US feel it is time to reign in the Feds.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    29. Re:But DC is different,no? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1
      If Obama was doing to do anything of real merit, he'd have moved to have pot taken off schedule 1 at the very least to allow for real medical investigation of the plant.

      If he had wanted to do more, he could have put it to the states to decide.

      But no..he wasted time when he had both houses of govt with him to do that. Hell, why not put that onto the ACA when they passed it? At least the medical research portion...?

      Too late for that now I suppose....although Rand Paul would support it if Obama and other put these kinds of legislation forward.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    30. Re:But DC is different,no? by JeffOwl · · Score: 1

      (although, if you're an "exempt" employee, there are no hours that are truly yours; being an "exempt" employee means that you trade having to punch a clock for a fixed salary, no overtime, and the possibility of being required to work 120 hours a week, all legal).

      If you are an "exempt" employee you are on your own to negotiate the terms of your employment. Most of the exempt employees where I work do get OT pay.

    31. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      According to a even a very loose reading of the Constitution, a city council, given jurisdiction to govern a Federal enclave by Congress, shouldn't have the authority to circumvent the Constitution itself, but they do it as a matter of routine in DC.

      Example: one of the old arguments is that the 2nd Amendment applies only to the federal government, since it hadn't been incorporated against the states (until the Heller decision); one would therefore expect the 2nd Amendment would be most strongly upheld in Washington DC of all places, since it is in fact federal territory. Quite the contrary, historically, this is one of the jurisdictions where it is most frequently trod upon.

      My philosophy: assume the government will not play by its own rules, and take it as a happy surprise when it does.

    32. Re:But DC is different,no? by plopez · · Score: 1

      This is the same pattern as with alcohol prohibition. States 'legalized' until there was such a ground swell that the Amendment was finally repealed.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    33. Re:But DC is different,no? by BVis · · Score: 2

      Then they're lucky. Most places it's "These are the terms of the job, if you don't like them, fuck off."

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    34. Re:But DC is different,no? by plopez · · Score: 1

      Impossible unless you remove Gerrymandering. Good luck with that.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    35. Re:But DC is different,no? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Perfectly acceptable...

      Then the people who decide to live there should consider congress as the 'city council', so to speak, and live under their rules, because it appears that the 'independence' of the residential areas is entirely ceremonial.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    36. Re:But DC is different,no? by hawguy · · Score: 2

      http://www.newapproachwa.org/sites/newapproachwa.org/files/I-502%20Factsheet%20-%20DUI.pdf (if you don't like to link directly to pdfs then do the internet search yourself you lazy pot-head).

      Interesting accusation coming from the guy that's too lazy to use the tags to turn his link into a proper HTML link.

    37. Re:But DC is different,no? by coolmoose25 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Actually, what they are trying to do is find out if you are an addict and are going to be using at work. The rationale is that if you can't stop using any given drug for the 30 days it takes to clear your system, then you cannot control your additiction... different drugs have different times that they remain detectable in the body. But none more than 30 days. So if you can't quit using during your job search, then you can't quit period, and thus are an addict. I, on the other hand, don't much care if you've used mary jane in the past 30 days, so when a candidate flunked his test for being "dilute" twice, my HR people recommended that I didn't hire him. I asked if they were mandating that, and they said no. So I hired him. OTOH, the company I work for today doesn't test. A woman had to be let go because used sharps (needles) started showing up in the ladies room... she was using heroin WHILE AT WORK. So go figure...

      --
      Brawndo: It's what plants crave!
    38. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can do this now. Refuse to work for anyone who asks you to take a drug test. Heck, start a competing company that hires all the excellent potheads they refuse. You'll show them!

    39. Re:But DC is different,no? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Rubbish! You just have to do your own 'Gerrymandering' and make new friends. I'm talking about going out and meeting them, not just make a request on facebook. Again, don't blame the system that *you* made and support. Nobody is forcing you to work it that way.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    40. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How is it anyone's business how I decide what types of employees will propel my business forward? Other than protected classes I'm free to hire whomever for whatever reason.

    41. Re:But DC is different,no? by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

      It's still Federally illegal. Even in any state that it is "legal" it can still be prosecuted. It won't be under the current president, but that can change in 2 years.

      True. Although to be entirely fair, DC isn't a big fan of enforcing federal laws. They certainly can and may, but I remember a story by a disability rights advocate where it turned out to be easier to have portions of the federal law rewritten verbatim into the DC Code than it was to convince DC officials that federal laws applied.

      Aside from the anecdote, though, DC generally doesn't like the fact that Congress can meddle. A number of years ago they even changed their license plates to read "Taxation without representation," because that's what they have.

    42. Re:But DC is different,no? by Dorianny · · Score: 1

      If the feds re-schedule it before there is enough public support than you will see a bunch of outraged state legislators quickly moving to make it illegal at state level, to "protect our children" of course. Federal law preempts state. The Obama administration could sue and have all the legalization laws, recreational or otherwise stricken from the books. Not doing that and directing federal agencies to even ignore dispensaries and growing operations unless they have suspicion of their drugs moving across state lines, is a pretty big deal.

    43. Re:But DC is different,no? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I actually support legalization. And I also support employers testing prospective employees. If you want to work for XYZ Corporation, then XYZ Corporation has a right to make sure you aren't stoned when you come to work. This is one of the ways they can check to see if you are stoned. Bummer for you that THC doesn't get filtered out quickly.

      The question I have, is do you want the job more than you want to smoke pot, or not. Make your choice. It seems like you have made your choice. Just remember, you turned down the job so you can smoke pot, so you can't complain about not having a job.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    44. Re:But DC is different,no? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      I worked for an employer that only seemed to drug test those who worked in the warehouse. I personally was never drug tested by them, but I remember talking to one of the warehouse supervisors who said that even if they take medicinal marijuana the company won't permit them to be a warehouse worker.

      Just based on how and where the policy is enforced, I think it's purely a safety issue. The company is really big on avoiding workplace accidents, and I don't think it is at all unreasonable to have such a policy. If somebody comes to work stoned and operates a big fork lift for example, there are a lot of lives at stake other than their own. I've seen a forklift accident cause somebody to become a quadriplegic for example, and I'd hate to be the company that gets sued over that.

    45. Re:But DC is different,no? by smellsofbikes · · Score: 2

      Obama has stated that this issue is not of major concern to him and will not be seeking prosecution.

      That's what he's stated, but not what he's done. They've raided several marijuana dispensaries and farms here in Colorado.

      How do you know when a politician is lying? When their lips are moving.

      To be fair, some of the places they've raided appear to have been selling, whether knowingly or not, fairly large quantities of pot to people who were then taking it to Kansas and Wyoming and reselling it, and interstate transport of illegal drugs is absolutely part of the Federal Government's job.
      However, it's not clear to me how sellers can tell where the stuff is going, and why should they be required to? They're selling what's legal here, and it's not really their business what the buyers do with it.
      The obvious answer is getting our neighbors to legalize pot as well, but that's going to be a challenge. My recollection is that any quantity of pot whatsoever is a felony in Wyoming.

      --
      Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
    46. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      The basis for all government power, responsibility and authority is that most people accept that the government has power, responsibility and authority.

      The Constitution is only a document which describes the application thereof.

    47. Re:But DC is different,no? by RabidReindeer · · Score: 2

      but once you fail the drug test for traces opiates you are guilty until proven innocent

      No, in post 1980s America, you are guilty of lots of things until you prove yourself innocent. And not "once you fail the drug test", because the test was given under the presumption you're guilty to begin with. Is testing for explosives residues on your hands a pre-condition for employment? Not yet, anyway.

      Before Reagan promised to "get the government off the backs of the people", you didn't routinely find employers requiring drug tests. Nor did you have to prove up front that you weren't an illegal alien. Which, incidentally, doesn't seem to have done much from keeping employers from actually hiring illegal aliens.

      But there you have it. If you were born after 1980, you've been a presumed criminal all your life.

    48. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How can an employer dictate what you do in your spare time?

      Are you allowed to show up drunk to work? No? Then your employer is dictating (to some degree) what you do in your spare time (you cannot get plastered right before going in to the office, you need to make sure to allow enough time to sober up).

    49. Re:But DC is different,no? by BVis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you want to work for XYZ Corporation, then XYZ Corporation has a right to make sure you aren't stoned when you come to work.

      I agree. The pee test doesn't tell you that, and being around people smoking (but not smoking yourself) is enough to spike a positive.

      The question I have, is do you want the job more than you want to smoke pot, or not.

      You've missed my point. The issue is not whether or not I would pass the screen. The issue is that it's invasive, humiliating, and unnecessary. The issue is that it's one more way for your employer to control your life. The issue is that a joint on the weekends isn't going to make you a dangerous/bad worker. The issue is that it's not a crime in a lot of states. The issue is that it's none of their fucking business if it doesn't impact your ability to do your job, and it doesn't. We don't keep people from working if they drink a beer (or 17) on the weekends, and having an alcoholic on your payroll is worse than having someone who's used pot an indeterminant number of times in the last 30 days. But we don't test for alcohol.

      But, keep buying into the Reefer Madness hysteria if you want. History will make a fool of you.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    50. Re:But DC is different,no? by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      > The feds make it pretty tough. But alcohol prohibition did not start with the repeal of the 18th amendment, it
      > started with states backing away from it until the momentum caused the 21st amendment to pass.

      This is very true but also, it started with Doctors backing away and stepping up on the other side with "medical alcohol" as it was far better for their patients health to get legal alcohol from trustworthy sources than to leave them to the whims of the black market and law enfocement.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    51. Re:But DC is different,no? by BVis · · Score: 3, Informative

      Refuse to work for anyone who asks you to take a drug test.

      I already do. Most employers in my field have figured out that there's no reason to test if there aren't signs of a problem.

      Heck, start a competing company that hires all the excellent potheads they refuse.

      Not everyone that smokes pot is a "pothead". That's like saying everyone who likes a beer or two is an alcoholic.

      --
      Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
    52. Re: But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Marijuana is the gateway drug, most users become hooked on narcotics. Hopefully congress will veto this law. This is a cavalier and terroristic action!

      Your pals,

      The DEA

    53. Re:But DC is different,no? by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Even Gerrymandering isn't the real problem. The real issue is first past the post voting, it inevitably leads to two party politics.

    54. Re:But DC is different,no? by Slashdot+Parent · · Score: 1

      I believe that even though it passed in DC...that congress can put the kibosh on this pretty quick?

      Yes, Congress can put the kibosh on this, and at least one Congressman from Maryland has already vowed to put a stop to this.

      Easy come, easy go.

      --
      They don't grade fathers, but if your daughter's a stripper, you fucked up. --Chris Rock
    55. Re:But DC is different,no? by cayenne8 · · Score: 1

      If the feds re-schedule it before there is enough public support than you will see a bunch of outraged state legislators quickly moving to make it illegal at state level

      It is already illegal at the state level, hence the states that are legalizing it passing NEW laws to legalize it for medical and/or recreational.

      The current Fed laws as they stand ALREADY trump state laws passed to legalize it..hence, the need for the Feds to bring their laws down, which would fully let the states decide.

      I don't mind if one state doesn't want to legalize it...if they do and you don't like it, you can move to a state that does.

      That's how it is all SUPPOSED to work.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    56. Re:But DC is different,no? by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 1

      The Obama administration could sue and have all the legalization laws, recreational or otherwise stricken from the books.

      False. Federal law preempts state, but all that means is that if you get hauled into federal court, "it's legal under state law!" isn't a defense. The state government has no obligation to make its own laws mirror federal laws or to expend any energy whatsoever enforcing federal law. State-level marijuana legalization have a very real practical effect: you get pulled over by a STATE trooper, rather than the DEA, and you're fine, because he's not being paid to enforce federal law, and, under state law, you're good.

      The Federal government can still lock you up if they catch you. But, with state law no longer on their side, THEY have to spend THEIR OWN limited resources sending out DEA agents to catch you. Your state won't help them, and the federal government can't make them. And DEA agents have better things to do than play highway patrol.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    57. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even at a workplace that does test for opiates, there's plenty of legit reasons to have them, poppy seed contamination is a thing, and at best you can only detect opiate use in the past 3 days. Probably unless you're shooting up on the same day as the test, you will be able to pass it.

      I've voluntarily quit smoking weed quite a few times, most recently a couple weeks ago. I'll be damned if you're going to tell me whether or not to smoke.

    58. Re:But DC is different,no? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      being around people smoking (but not smoking yourself) is enough to spike a positive.

      Yup. I know. Interestingly you have suggested that pot smokers think it is a right to smoke anywhere they damn well please and fuck everyone else. I have a problem with that

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    59. Re:But DC is different,no? by Shakrai · · Score: 2

      How? How on earth is it anyone's business what you do in your spare time? Unless you come to your job intoxicated (and frankly, I'd be more wary of the drunks than the potheads) it's exactly none of any employer's business

      There are employers now that are testing for nicotine and refusing to hire people who test positive. What say you to that? Because it's been my experience that there are very few people left these days who are willing to stand up for tobacco users.

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    60. Re:But DC is different,no? by gslj · · Score: 1

      Didn't in Britain. Or Canada.

      -Gareth

    61. Re:But DC is different,no? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      The real issue is first past the post voting, it inevitably leads to two party politics.

      There are at least two states in the Union (Louisiana, Georgia) that mandate runoff elections if any candidate fails to get 50%+1; they still seem to predominately elect Democrats and Republicans. There are a lot of reasons for our de-facto two party system, I don't think first past the post is even in the Top 10. The biggest impediment is the logistical hurdles of running for Federal office; you need an effective party apparatus behind you in order to get your message out and nobody seems to want to expend the energy to build such an apparatus from the ground up. All the third parties can do is whine about unfair the system is. American history is filled with examples of "third" parties that knocked off one of the major parties, none of them did so by whining about first past the post....

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    62. Re:But DC is different,no? by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

      Hillary, hopefully not. I want the democrats to have a fighting chance and Hillary cannot win. Not enough support even with democrats. Despite being a democrat I still won't vote for them if they don't understand the 2nd amendment is part of the constitution they swear to support and defend.

    63. Re:But DC is different,no? by Scottingham · · Score: 1

      You don't need a test to tell if they come to work stoned or not, it's pretty fucking obvious. And if you can't tell, then why is it a problem?

    64. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The federal government doesn't have the authority to force everyone to buy health insurance either, but they did it anyway.

    65. Re:But DC is different,no? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      What's the problem, are the people not free to fuck off if they don't like the terms of the job? Is that the only job available? What you quoted is one particularly hard-line negotiation. It's still a negotiation. The person can always offer different terms, or else go find another job, right?

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    66. Re:But DC is different,no? by DaHat · · Score: 1

      That depends on the person and their tolerance/self-control.

    67. Re:But DC is different,no? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Interestingly you have suggested that pot smokers think it is a right to smoke anywhere they damn well please and fuck everyone else.

      I think you're projecting. He didn't suggest anything like that. What he suggested is that you could go over to someone's house, they might be smoking pot in some room, you walk through or spend some time in the room (which is your choice), and maybe you'll show up as positive on a test. If you think that "being around people smoking" somehow equates to "a right to smoke anywhere they damn well please and fuck everyone else", then you might have a bit of a bias.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    68. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are people still talking about constitutional authority?

      Because that is the basis for ALL our government power, responsibility and authority.

      No, that's why we're talking about corporate authority ...

    69. Re: But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Would you also support a corporation that wanted to enforce Muslim values by testing for alcohol use amongst their prospective employees? What about testing BMI as an indicator of health and overeating, and then refusing to hire the fat ones? Would you support that?

    70. Re:But DC is different,no? by Matheus · · Score: 4, Informative

      Yeah...
      5 = Legalization.
      23 = Medical
      18 = Decriminalized ...and there is overlap in the above numbers. My state, MN, is in the Medical and Decriminalized category. We've been tolerant (Decrim) for longer than most states but our recently passed Medical law is the most restrictive in the nation. For whatever reason straight up legalization didn't end up on the ballot this year but when it does, at least according to recent polls, it will pass by a landslide. We'd have it already if it weren't for the prick we currently (just reelected grr...) and most recently before him had in the governors office.

    71. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not how Federal law works.

    72. Re:But DC is different,no? by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Weed, indeed. I routinely go months without, but then I start to feel a migraine come on and it's a nightly thing for me for a week or two. Recreational use is a very occasional occurrence for me, but I have come to work high more than once, when I had a migraine. My employer knows this and doesn't care, because my work output has been consistently superb for the almost 5 years I've worked here and it was actually appreciated that I came in at all, given that I was suffering a debilitating condition (the migraine, not the weed).

      Would I come to work high just because, or if I were working for an employer that had a problem with my use of marijuana for migraine therapy? Hellz naw, that's just a special kind of dumb. I actually discussed the issue with my employer before going and getting my MMJ card. There was no argument, as the effects of pot are much less detrimental to my work (indeed, I've compared code written high to code written sober and both were equally passable) than the hallucinogens I've been prescribed for migraine therapy in the past.

      If I even find myself working for someone who has a problem with it, I'll give it up and get back on Immitrex or Cafergot and they can live without me for 3 days whenever I get a migraine.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    73. Re: But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That isn't dictating what you do in your spare time, it's just a consequence of dictating what you do at work. Presumably you could get plastered if you could take a pill and suddenly sober up right before work.

    74. Re:But DC is different,no? by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      I can't walk though downtown park without having second hand pot smoke, so no, I am not projecting.

      And most people I know are courteous about smoking in front of others, because not everyone wants to smoke second hand. But those that don't aren't really friends in the first place, are they?

      Anyone having gone to a concert and gotten high without smoking at all can tell you, many pot smokers don't give a shit about anyone else.

      So ... not projecting. I think it is telling that you've never experienced inconsiderate pot smokers.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    75. Re:But DC is different,no? by BronsCon · · Score: 2

      Actually, I live in a city where smoking is banned in multi-dwelling homes (e.g. apartments and attached condos) and the entire downtown area, with an exception made for medical marijuana. That's right, it's perfectly legal to walk through my city smoking a joint, if you have an MMJ card, but you can be fined for smoking a cigarette.

      Guess what I've never once seen. Now, guess what I see all the time.

      Pot smokers are typically pretty considerate about when and where they smoke, and who they smoke around. On the other hand, I find myself reminding people that cigarette smoking is illegal in the city at least once a week. Sweet justice, though, the one guy who didn't take the hint and told me to go get fucked walked around the corner and bumped into a cop.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    76. Re:But DC is different,no? by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      There are at least two states in the Union (Louisiana, Georgia) that mandate runoff elections if any candidate fails to get 50%+1;

      Runoff elections don't change the first past the post system and it's effects.

    77. Re:But DC is different,no? by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      IANAL and I am in favor of drug legalization, but one obvious argument would be that while drug use/possession may not be against your state law, it is still a federal crime. "We do not wish to hire people who break federal laws" is a reasonable argument.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    78. Re:But DC is different,no? by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      It's still Federally illegal. Even in any state that it is "legal" it can still be prosecuted. It won't be under the current president, but that can change in 2 years.

      I cannot imagine how, after 6 years, you Obama supporters are still so starry eyed and ignorant. Under the "current president", prosecutions of legal marijuana use are *up* over the levels seen during the Bush administration. This isn't exactly a well-guarded secret.

      Obama Explains Increasing Medical Marijuana Crackdowns
      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/...

      Obama’s War On Medical Marijuana Steps Up
      http://www.fitsnews.com/2013/1...

      Judging From Prosecutions, Obama Is 80 Percent Worse Than Bush on Medical Marijuana
      http://reason.com/blog/2013/06...

      Republican Rand Paul has stated that DC should be able to legalize marijuana if they want:
      http://www.washingtonexaminer....

    79. Re:But DC is different,no? by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Both of those countries use parliamentary systems which are different in nature from the US system. Due to the fact that the elected members have to "form a government" parties outside of the main two have some hope of wielding power and avoiding consolidation, this partially ameliorates the effects of first past the post voting. Many other democratic style systems use "proportional representation" which bypasses the problem.

    80. Re:But DC is different,no? by suutar · · Score: 1

      You are right that some pot smokers think it is their right to smoke anywhere they want. I think you are projecting in that you seem to think BVis specifically holds that opinion as well, but I see nothing from him that indicates that.

    81. Re:But DC is different,no? by sudon't · · Score: 1

      Also remember many jobs will drug test you.

      It's likely you'd be able to challenge THC testing, depending on the employer. There are jobs where testing is mandated by law or regulation. For instance, certain jobs which fall under the purview of the Department of Transportation, like truck driving. A truck driver cannot take even certain prescription drugs, legally prescribed, such as opiates, (nevermind that opiates do not impair you, except on television). It'll be interesting to see if they alter testing methods to account for THC's long detection range. After all, why shouldn't you be able to get high on your own time, just as you can have a beer on your own time? Not that common sense often prevails.

      --
      -- sudon't

      Air-ride Equipped

    82. Re:But DC is different,no? by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1

      If I were President and wanted to stop this, I think I could do it easily. I think it would make a lot of people mad, but I could do it, just like I could go start a big war in Syria if I wanted to.

      If I were President and wanted to do this, I might do the following:

      I could direct the DOJ to subpoena the records from every state of who is licensed to sell cannabis in that state. I might not have enough resources to prosecute them all at once, but I could direct the DOJ to raid and prosecute them one-by-one in no particular order. I could direct them to use late-night no-knock raids and (with plausible deniability) suggest that agents could shoot pets and cause extensive property damage with impunity. I could direct the DOJ to seize their assets under civil asset forfeiture, levy large fines, and imprison them for years, leaving their families destitute. I don't know if I would prosecute customers, but even if just a handful were prosecuted, it could have a huge chilling effect on legalization advocates. Finally, I could arrest and prosecute *all* state officials (whether elected or not) who had any part of administering the program.

      By doing the above, I could intimidate both business and local government out of ever trying to legalize cannabis for decades to come.

      I'm certain that the powers that be have thought about this, too.

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
    83. Re:But DC is different,no? by rock_climbing_guy · · Score: 1

      As the article you linked points out, the case is currently being appealed to the Colorado Supreme Court. It isn't a done deal, yet.

      --
      Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
    84. Re:But DC is different,no? by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      You'll forgive me if I decline to take political science lessons from someone who doesn't know the difference between "it is" and "its"

      --
      I want peace on earth and goodwill toward man.
      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    85. Re:But DC is different,no? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      There are employers now that are testing for nicotine and refusing to hire people who test positive.

      My company has a "no tobacco" policy. We don't drug test, but we do tell people at the very beginning of our job application process, that we do not hire tobacco users. They are less productive (taking lots of smoke breaks), they are out sick more often, they run up health care costs, and they tend to be dumber than average. An employment law attorney told us that this is perfectly legal. Smokers have no rights.

    86. Re:But DC is different,no? by idontgno · · Score: 1

      At-will employment, that's how.

      "We can fire you for any reason*, and you can quit for any reason. Fair?"

      *"Any reason" except for reasons specific to the employee being a member of a protected class. But "pot smokers" is not a protected class.

      --
      Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
    87. Re:But DC is different,no? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I still have to wonder how this is legal.

      Why not? America is a (mostly) free country. You can work where you want, and refuse a job for any reason, or for no reason. Likewise, an employer should be able to hire you, or not, for whatever criteria they want. The only exceptions are a specifically enumerated list, including race, religion, disabilities, etc., that are deemed necessary because the government has a compelling interest in reducing discrimination against these protected classes. There is no compelling government interest in protecting dope smokers, tobacco users, drunks, people that die their hair purple, etc. So employers are free to consider those factors, or not, as they see fit. In a free country, that is the way it should be.

    88. Re:But DC is different,no? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      After all, why shouldn't you be able to get high on your own time, just as you can have a beer on your own time?

      Not the same. Moderate alcohol use has no long term effect on cognition. Marijuana use does. Even moderate MJ use can widen your brain synapses, lengthening your reflex response time, and, to put it bluntly, making you stupid. The effect can last for months, or years, and with heavy use, can be permanent. I am strongly in favor of legalization, but just because something is legal doesn't mean it is smart.

    89. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While the federal government does many things wrong it does not do everything wrong. There is a reason there were regulations put in place after the Stock market collapse leading to the Great Depression. Those regulations were bolstered periodically until our last two Presidents gave Wallstreet free reign despite leading us to the brink of financial disaster. It is important we not forget the lessons of the past, there are big lines between sensible regulation, overbearing regulation, and no regulation.

    90. Re:But DC is different,no? by Mike+Buddha · · Score: 1

      Where I work, you can smoke, but you have to pay more for your health insurance. I think it's $15 a month extra for smokers. If you're not a smoker you have to sign an affidavit to that effect. I think there's a penalty of some sort if it turns out you're lying.

      --
      by Mike Buddha -- Someday the mountain might get him, but the law never will.
    91. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you can't stop masturbating for 30 prior to a job interview are you a sex addict?

    92. Re:But DC is different,no? by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Yes, it was a typo, yes I know the difference, yes English is a stupid language for punctuation. I'm sure you feel much better now.

    93. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ok, so the person has a high tolerance/self-control, and as a result, they are able to put out quality work despite still being stoned.

      So, again, why does it matter? Unless you are jealous that someone else can smoke a joint and still be a productive member of society, while you turn into a giggling little kid with the munchies, I do not see any reason for it to matter that you cannot tell whether or not that person is stoned.

    94. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it is a hot button issue and legalization seems to be getting more smoke every 2 years.

      FTFY

    95. Re:But DC is different,no? by Khyber · · Score: 1

      " The rationale is that if you can't stop using any given drug for the 30 days it takes to clear your system"

      30? Buddy some places blood or hair test you, and that goes WAY LONGER than 30 days.

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    96. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the idea is that they wouldn't bust them for doing things that are legal in the state. Do you know what they were actually busted for? My guess is that it was for things like fraud, tax evasion, or dealing with other drugs.

      dom

    97. Re:But DC is different,no? by Dorianny · · Score: 1

      The laws in many states go far behind simply decriminalizing possession of small amounts. In many states there are regulatory schemes that authorize and control the growing and distribution. These regulatory schemes can most certainly be challenged in court as they go far behind "giving their citizens more rights" which is generally allowed.

    98. Re:But DC is different,no? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      That doesn't give you the right to examine someone's body fluids. Or are you going to force women to hand over their urine too to find out when they get pregnant so you can fire time on time? Or decide you don't want to hire women who are (not) on the pill, either because you're a religious nutjob or just wanting to make sure they don't get pregnant? How about demanding a blood test every now and then because you're a health freak and don't want your employees to eat fatty food that mess with their LDL values?

      All a-ok in your book?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    99. Re:But DC is different,no? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      And people ask me why I wouldn't wanna work in the US if they paid 10 times my salary...

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    100. Re:But DC is different,no? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      No, but it is well within my rights to get wasted on Friday and come to work on Monday. There is nothing my employer could legally do to keep me from doing this. And if there was some way to make someone sober instantly, he couldn't even keep me from getting all out drunk right before work, provided I am sober when I start to work.

      But I guess "that is something completely different", right?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    101. Re:But DC is different,no? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      By that logic, I think it should go without saying that the financial situation of any C-Level Manager (especially CFO and the like) should be thoroughly sniffed before even considering hiring one.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    102. Re:But DC is different,no? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      I'll save that comment. Just in case I ever feel tempted to work in the US.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    103. Re:But DC is different,no? by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      So, what you're saying is that in the US, you are free... as long as you don't need money, in which case you're at the mercy and whim of anyone who'd care to employ you.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    104. Re:But DC is different,no? by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps -- federal preemption is tricky; there has to be an intent to preempt and some other conditions must be met -- but doing so would be counterproductive. If they do manage to get the laws overturned, they are replaced with nothing. So, marijuana would be fully decriminalized instead of partially decriminalized with a regulatory scheme in place. Not what the federal government would want.

      I don't think it would be preempted in the first place, though. To be preempted, the law must "interfere" with the federal government. So, taxing the Federal Reserve is out, passing truly conflicting (as in, you can't obey both laws simultaneously) is out, and other such things. There has to be interference. A regulatory scheme for marijuana arguably would not interfere, because you can easily obey both sets of laws simply by not having or producing marijuana. The Federal government clearly doesn't see itself as "occupying the field" in drug regulation since local ordinances about drugs have a long history of coexisting with the federal scheme unchallenged.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    105. Re:But DC is different,no? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      No, not really. The 13 colonies became 13 countries after the revolutionary war. These 13 countries then surrendered a portion of their sovereignty to a federal authority for specific purposes. Those specific purposes have been stretched, distorted and ignored but without it, the state's which is unique to the US as state as in nation state does mean country at the time we started using the word, would be the only legitimate power of government.

      The fact that people do not know or understand that is depressing. But then again, if you say states rights, or point to the bill of rights where it actually shows it (9th and 10th amendments), you are called a racists and discussion is promptly shut down by those big government folks.

    106. Re:But DC is different,no? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      I hope you realize that the stock market collapse and great depression was largely the fault of government regulation in the first place. It all started with the Grain Futures Act and hit a turning point with the Agricultural Marketing Act of 1929. This is largely why credit was overextended, we were producing surplus commodities, and deflation existed in the first place.

      So a bigger point is that regulation if it exists, should be proper and fiting. Or in other words, over regulation hurts us, improper regulation hurts us, under regulation seems to hurt us, so care for the proper and most effective regulation must be taken.

    107. Re:But DC is different,no? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      It would take a constitutional amendment in order for congress to lose it's ability and power over D.C.. The cited law only established a way for D.C. itself to control most of it's own business.

      Think of it to be more like a go away kid you are bothering me law. It frees congress up for whatever they think is important- even if that seems to be nothing.

    108. Re:But DC is different,no? by stoploss · · Score: 1

      So, what you're saying is that in the US, you are free... as long as you don't need money, in which case you're at the mercy and whim of anyone who'd care to employ you.

      That's a distortion. By that token, everyone in the whole world is a whore because everyone does things they wouldn't otherwise do in exchange for "considerations" from others.

      I refuse to take any job that requires a drug screen. However, one thing other commenters have failed to mention is that a lot of this is driven by the federal government requiring entities that want federal contracts to have a "drug-free workplace". Congress isn't required to be tested themselves, of course.

      Yes, some corporations demand a test. I tell them that's not negotiable. I don't even use drugs; this is a matter of principle for me.

    109. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome. Go ahead and provide the citations for all those claims. You sound like an email forwarding chain from someone's grandma that is probably posted on Snopes.

    110. Re:But DC is different,no? by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Ah, that would be why Australia suffered so greatly during the GFC, Oh wait we didn't, our strong regulations protected us. That's the reality.

    111. Re:But DC is different,no? by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Good old Mike, fucktard to the last.

    112. Re:But DC is different,no? by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Wow, you don't have a clue do you? I know lots of drinkers and pot smokers. Number whose health effected by pot, zero. Number dead due to alcohol, three.
      Some of the brightest people I know smoke pot, perhaps it would help your limited intellect too!

    113. Re:But DC is different,no? by mjwx · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, what they are trying to do is find out if you are an addict and are going to be using at work. The rationale is that if you can't stop using any given drug for the 30 days it takes to clear your system, then you cannot control your additiction.

      That is proving the GP's point for him.

      Its an incredibly stupid rationale.

      The first part is treating everything as an addiction. Its not, not everyone who has a toke of weed is instantly turned into a crack whore. It's an odd concept to some that quite a few people can control their habits.

      Secondly, it assumes that you cant keep something limited to your off time, for example I can choose to have a few beers over the weekend, that does not mean I drink 24/7. Now my employer absolutely has a right to expect me to be sober whilst at work during my prescribed working hours but after work, they dont get a say.

      Fortunately where I live, pre-employment drug tests are illegal and drug tests during employment are only legal for certain areas (like mine sites, construction sites, factories and other places where there are real dangers, so not the office).

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    114. Re: But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer a system of government based off some watery tart distributing swords.

    115. Re:But DC is different,no? by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Umm.. you mean they had proper and effective regulation?

      I'm not sure what your point is other than that. As I said, there is all sorts of wrong regulation so you need to ensure the proper and most effective regulation.

      Maybe I'm reading your post wrong, but it seems like you think you are contradicting me but then assert the main principle of my post. Can you help a confused idiot out?

    116. Re:But DC is different,no? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      You do know that most employers who test don't actually want to test don't you?

      If you're a supplier to the federal government in some well defined capacities, it's a requirement that you test your employees. No test, no government business.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    117. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they've done the same in california under obama. they must not have followed the law to the letter, like he said they must or face raids.
      captacha: sentinel

    118. Re:But DC is different,no? by hawguy · · Score: 1

      And people ask me why I wouldn't wanna work in the US if they paid 10 times my salary...

      Because smoking cigarettes is worth 10X your salary?

    119. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Many of US in the US feel it is time to reign in the US."

      To anyone not in the US that sounds just a ludicrous as it is.

    120. Re:But DC is different,no? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      ... as long as you don't need money, in which case you're at the mercy and whim of anyone who'd care to employ you.

      Except you have the option of changing your behavior. Behavior has consequences. If you smoke dope, dye your hair purple, and have KKK tattooed onto your forehead, you may find it hard to get a good job, because many employers consider those things to be indicators of bad judgement. I don't think we need a government bureaucracy dedicated to ensuring that dope smokers and KKK members can be airline pilots and brain surgeons.

    121. Re:But DC is different,no? by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      >you can smoke, but you have to pay more for your health insurance. I think it's $15 a month extra

      They should also give you a discount on your pension contributions.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    122. Re:But DC is different,no? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1, Informative

      Awesome. Go ahead and provide the citations for all those claims.

      Citation.
      Citation.
      Citation.

      There are dozens more. Dope makes you stupid. It also lowers reflex response time, and it makes you apathetic.

      Marijuana should be legal, because people should be free to be stupid. But using dope is stupid.

    123. Re:But DC is different,no? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      State-level marijuana legalization have a very real practical effect: you get pulled over by a STATE trooper, rather than the DEA, and you're fine, because he's not being paid to enforce federal law, and, under state law, you're good.

      Unless you are in AZ, where the troopers are paid to enforce federal law, specifically the immigration laws. I have no idea of the status of that movement at the moment, but it's made headlines a few times where the AZ police will turn over illegals to the feds, despite no federal requirements to that effect.

    124. Re:But DC is different,no? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I've never heard of that. I've been exempt in Texas and Alaska for many years, and all had working hours spelled out clearly. Any requests for extension of those hours (for, say, a temporary project) were always accompanied with offers of comp time.

    125. Re:But DC is different,no? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      And it's possible to get an MJ positive *years* after last use. THC will build up in fat, so if someone looking for a job also does some other things to change their lives, like a cleanse and liquid diet, it's quite possible that they could score a positive long after last use. Even longer than hair goes back.

    126. Re:But DC is different,no? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Because if someone comes to work stoned, and you don't have a testing policy in place, it can take months or longer to fire them.

    127. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, it's that not living in an overly religious and authoritarian shithole of a sham republic is priceless

    128. Re:But DC is different,no? by Kevin+Fishburne · · Score: 1

      That's a great theory, which I've even considered myself, but really...if you can't tell just by talking with someone for five minutes that they're an addict, much less actually high at that very moment, you've got bigger problems than a company full of junkies. To take it further, job performance is a big indicator of not just whether you're stoned but whether or not you belong there under any circumstances. Fucking up, being late all the time, weirding out clients, all these things will get you fired pretty quickly. I don't think drug tests are necessary. In a market where there are less jobs than applicants, I think it's just easier for employers to use really big filters without regard for how meaningful they are at the level of an individual applicant. Same goes for those bizarre online psych tests.

      --
      Buy your next Linux PC at eightvirtues.com
    129. Re:But DC is different,no? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      That doesn't give you the right to examine someone's body fluids.

      So you want to make it illegal to ask others for tests? Would that apply to STD screening?

    130. Re:But DC is different,no? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      I worked for an employer that only seemed to drug test those who worked in the warehouse.

      I had to get tested for a warehouse job. It wasn't the job that required it, but the government. Working with heavy machinery is a "high risk" position and there were restrictions on some of the equipment. The employer is required by the government to keep records of tests for health and safety reasons. Got tested at another job as part of a CDL program.

      "Pre-employment – An employer must receive a negative drug test result before permitting a CDL driver to operate a CMV."

      http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/regul...

    131. Re: But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow. That might be the most insightful post from an AC I have ever seen.

    132. Re: But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I didn't know that, thank you. So the issue (unsurprisingly) is with the federal government. Go figure.

    133. Re: But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At a certain level, i agree. Let companies choose their employees by whatever standards they deem relevant. However, extrapolation leads to genetic screening, which is an ethical nightmare. I'm weary to make a slippery slope argument, but this is one place that probably merits it.

    134. Re:But DC is different,no? by linuxrocks123 · · Score: 1

      It was a federal preemption case where Arizona wanted to be more aggressive asserting federal law than the federal government wanted to be, and passed laws to that effect. Part of the law was struck down due to preemption, part was upheld. It was a divided Supreme Court decision also.

      iirc the struck-down part was making "illegal presence" a crime when it wasn't a federal crime (so, making something illegal that was legal under federal law). The part that was upheld was making it a requirement that all Arizona law enforcement personnel check with the federal government whenever they think they might have come across an illegal immigrant in the course of their duties.

      --
      vi ~/.emacs # I'm probably going to Hell for this.
    135. Re:But DC is different,no? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Yes, some corporations demand a test. I tell them that's not negotiable.

      In some cases, the feds require the tests, not the corporation. The corporation just follows the laws.

    136. Re:But DC is different,no? by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      There are few jobs which match for most individuals so going and finding another job isn't the low-cost option that would be required for middle-school-level economic theory to apply to reality.

    137. Re:But DC is different,no? by RoLi · · Score: 1

      The media loves Obama and many people are (literally!) raised by TV.

    138. Re:But DC is different,no? by stoploss · · Score: 1

      In some cases, the feds require the tests, not the corporation. The corporation just follows the laws.

      Yes, I alluded to that in my previous comment. Sometimes I work around the issue by having them contract with my LLC; otherwise, if they insist on the drug test then we're done.

      I don't need the work that badly. I can always find something else.

    139. Re:But DC is different,no? by stiggle · · Score: 1

      And even if its legal in DC - its still illegal federally and so on federal land (national parks, seashores, military bases, etc) you can still be arrested for possession. A few stoner campers found this out in Washington State - camping in a national park and smoking up got ticketed by a park ranger.

      http://www.nydailynews.com/new...

    140. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      not really. The UK has had one proper coalition since WW2 and that's the one running currently.
      We've had 2 party politics all that time, with a few fringe regional parties taking a chunk of seats. Then the LibDems started picking up into the 90's until they managed to get into government with the Tories. They've totally killed themselves by doing so since a fair number of their voters were disgruntled Labour voters and they didnt like that. The rest of their voters we students and they didnt like the reneging on their big election pledge not to raise university fees.
      So pretty much we'll back to Labour/Tories fighting it out.
      Interestingly we could end up with Labour having a majority in the commons based on their scots and welsh MPs while the Tories get the majority of english MPs (85% of the UK). This would mean that Labour could force through legislation on matters that only effect england (since scotland and wales are getting more devolved powers) while not having the majority.
      Meanwhile nothern ireland is still a backward shithole that no one cares about. But at least we have better whiskey.

    141. Re:But DC is different,no? by ultranova · · Score: 1

      I actually support legalization. And I also support employers testing prospective employees. If you want to work for XYZ Corporation, then XYZ Corporation has a right to make sure you aren't stoned when you come to work. This is one of the ways they can check to see if you are stoned. Bummer for you that THC doesn't get filtered out quickly.

      So in other words, you don't support legalization, you support letting XYZ Corporation in effect make its own laws.

      It's nice to know fascism is alive and well.

      The question I have, is do you want the job more than you want to smoke pot, or not. Make your choice. It seems like you have made your choice. Just remember, you turned down the job so you can smoke pot, so you can't complain about not having a job.

      You can choose to bow to the Beast, or you can be punished by being shut outside the economy. In the latter case the Beast is blameless and you can't complain, because after all you rejected its Mark of your own free will.

      Are you certain you aren't getting your archangels mixed up?

      --

      Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.

    142. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah - this. The places that have been raided here in CO were knowingly and blatantly violating state law.

      There are 2 big problems.

      1) Surrounding states haven't legalized it yet, so there's a big incentive for people to smuggle it out of state
      2) The tax is too high. This came up in conversation the other day. Why should you pay retail prices for pot when you could get it for much less through the black market (some of which is supplied by otherwise "legal" marijuana producers?

      And the answer for me is it's just so much easier and convenient and I'm not poor. The amount of money I spend on pot isn't anywhere near as much as I spend on booze, but if money were tight I would either quit or go back to buying from the black market like I did before it was legalized.

      As for some future president taking a harsher stance and trying to enforce federal law against marijuana, I think that bird has flown. It can't be done. They can still go after the big-time traffickers, but shutting down every marijuana operation in Colorado - not gonna happen. Pandora's box has been opened and it cannot be shut.

    143. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a fair point. I've always quit smoking pot before looking for a new job. I'd rather keep smoking, but it's never been a real problem.

      The worst was when I went to Jazz Fest in New Orleans the weekend before starting a new job. They had already hired me, but the first thing I would have to do when I showed up was go take a piss test. So go figure, I drank like a fish and even dropped acid in New Orleans 2 days before I started this job, but I didn't smoke any pot. In fact, I never turned down so much pot in my life. I passed the drug test.

      FFS, what would it have been like if I failed that drug test. Hey, you just quit your old job, but now you don't get to have the new one. Sucks to be you.

      The last time I was looking for a job, I bought a half dozen test kits off the internet (they're inexpensive). You just put a couple drops of urine on them and it tells you if you've been smoking pot. These things are supposed to be pass/fail and are probably not the same test that will be applied in your pre-employment screening, but I could see a difference in how dark the line was as the days progressed since my last toke - and yeah, you never want to take a piss test first thing in the morning either.

      With the tests I bought off the internet, I could tell those were the times I was closest to failing. You want to drink a whole bunch of coffee and a whole bunch of fruit juice before you take the piss test. You don't have to spend $40 on some de-tox bullshit that they sell at the local head shop.

      Employers of tech people don't really care if people get stoned. They probably expect it of at least a third of the work force and there's a fair chance they get stoned themselves. They can always get rid of you if you don't perform to expectations. I even had a job offer once where they told me they would forgo the usual drug test. I was kind of stunned. I didn't think I looked like a stoner.

      There are a few states which have laws protecting employees from discrimination for legal behavior (such as smoking tobacco for example). Colorado is not one of those states, so they can still not hire you if you smoke pot in Colorado and they can fire you if they feel like it. Common sense says they should base their hiring and firing on performance though.

    144. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just DON'T DO DRUGS. Problem solved.

      Why does anyone feel the need to do drugs at all? First, it's bad for your health. Secondly, while on drugs you're not totally in control of yourself. Why would you want to put yourself through that? I've never understood this, not when I was a kid, not when I was a teen and certainly not as an adult! And no, I'm not a bible thumping religious freak either.

    145. Re:But DC is different,no? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Minneapolis (in Minnesota) now has ranked-choice voting. I pick my top three choices, in order, which gives me more freedom. Assume I have a favorite candidate I'm not sure can win, can be safe and vote for the candidate from party A, and I really don't want the candidate from party B. With plurality voting, I can either vote for my favorite candidate or the A candidate, so if I express my preference I'm increasing the chance that the B candidate wins. With ranked-choice, I can vote for my favorite, and include the A candidate in second or third place, and I'm not improving the B candidate's chances.

      We had an initial problem where twenty or so people filed for the mayoral election, so in the last vote we increased filing fees to take it out of the "may as well" category.

      I have vivid memories of the day after we elected Jesse Ventura as MN governor. I heard sentences starting with "At least it wasn't" a lot, followed by one of two names. I had a difficult time deciding whether to vote for Jesse or my normal favorite party candidate.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    146. Re:But DC is different,no? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      "The issue is that it's invasive, humiliating, and unnecessary."

      Invasive?...no. Humiliating...doubtful unless you're very thin skinned. Unnecessary...possibly.

      It seems not to be a problem for millions of those who've peed in the cups. Every one of them had the option of walking away.

      For those working federal contracts, it's not an option for any company that works in the defense realm, to not do this kind of testing. No test, no clearance, no work. They don't give a shit what the state laws are.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    147. Re:But DC is different,no? by bkcallahan · · Score: 1

      Actually, what they are trying to do is find out if you are an addict and are going to be using at work. The rationale is that if you can't stop using any given drug for the 30 days it takes to clear your system, then you cannot control your additiction...

      Doesn't explain medical use -- after all people aren't required to go off Prozac for 30 days to prove they're not an addict of it.

    148. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Here is a big difference between Republicans and Democrats, in my opinion. The Republican point of view is that the employer can do whatever they want, and we have the right to walk away, move to another city, state, country, whatever. They don't have to justify what they're doing or make any sense or even, if they believe sincerely enough, obey the laws the rest of us have to obey. The corporate structure gives them only upsides (protecting their personal funds from lawsuits - the "corporate veil"), no downsides (obligations to the community, obedience to the law if their religion is opposed, etc.). In other words, the veil is one way - protecting the C-suite and investors, but letting them reach through the other way to use their investors money to amplify their voices and belief systems in ways not directly linked to their business purpose.
      The Democratic position is that when the people grant a business a corporate charter, we protect them with the corporate veil, but we expect in return that the corporation will be a neutral actor, and not be a megaphone for their C-suite. That the veil, in other words, is two-way: they can get protection of their personal money from lawsuits against the company, but they also can't use the company as extensions of their person. The individual people in the corner offices, with their political and religious beliefs, shouldn't be able to use the corporate entity to further those agendas.

    149. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's "rein" in. "Arguably" they have too powerful a "reign."

    150. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I failed a drug test after 4+ months of abstaining. I have no addiction and had a desire to be a productive member of society, which was denied to me by the racially and politically motivated prohibition undertaken nearly 100 years ago. I'm glad some of this nonsense is subsiding, but let's not pretend it has ever been anything more than a power and profit grab.

    151. Re:But DC is different,no? by blue9steel · · Score: 1

      Minneapolis (in Minnesota) now has ranked-choice voting.

      I think that's probably the best and simplest solution. It's not perfect, but no system is and it'll tend to produce more consensus candidates.

    152. Re:But DC is different,no? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      Saying "pot smokers think it is a right to smoke anywhere they damn well please and fuck everyone else" is a little different than saying "I've seen pot smokers who don't care who is around them." It's kind of like saying that everyone who drinks alcohol also drives drunk. Sure, some people don't give a shit. That doesn't mean that all (or even the vast majority) behave that way. There are always going to be inconsiderate assholes regardless of what they're doing.

      The part about you projecting was about you saying that BVis suggested something that he did not suggest. That you read it that way indicates that you are projecting, because you already (clearly) have a bias or perception that pot smokers don't care about who they're around just because you've seen some people display that kind of attitude. It doesn't mean that's the general attitude.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    153. Re:But DC is different,no? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      There are few jobs which match for most individuals

      So then why should the individuals be the ones to dictate the terms of the job? If I had 5 job openings and 100 qualified candidates I would expect people to work the way I want them to work, I wouldn't feel like I need to bend to their needs. If they really want a job, and there are a ton of other candidates, then it's up to them to make themselves as appealing as possible to the potential employer. Hopefully they learned that in their middle-school-level economics classes.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    154. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What they're really doing when you get forced to take a pre-employment piss test is asserting their power over you, even before they start paying you. You're a criminal/drug addict until you provide a bodily fluid to "prove" otherwise (as urine tests have varying degrees of accuracy). With marijuana especially, they're asserting control over your body (as you could smoke on the first of the month and spike a positive for pot at the end of the month) even during the hours you're not working for them (although, if you're an "exempt" employee, there are no hours that are truly yours; being an "exempt" employee means that you trade having to punch a clock for a fixed salary, no overtime, and the possibility of being required to work 120 hours a week, all legal).

      It's time we stood up to our corporate masters and told them "It's none of your fucking business what's in my urine."

      Follow the money trail in the 60s and 70s when black, white, brown, yellow, & red people were coming together protesting in front of the whitehouse, they were all smoking weed. Roger Dupont MD solved the problem for Richard Nixon by Rescheduling Cannabis as a schedule no. 1 narcotic. This way they could to date, put close to 2 million people in jail for it. When you find out that Roger Dupont of the Dupont family has a patent on PISS TESTS, and all 26 nato nations government follow the same policy of testing before employment, you can get an idea to the amount of money being made. The tests using cannabis on people in the 40s, 50s and 60s lead to a very clear finding. Cannabis cures cancer, and Dupont company, again having patents on lots of drugs & treatments needed to eliminate competition. This was achieved by having the US government patent cannabis based cures and filing them away, so they couldn't be traced back to Dupont.

    155. Re:But DC is different,no? by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      The question you asked was why can't someone just go get a different job; I answered that question to your apparent satisfaction, since you shifted to asking other questions. I'm not interested in your other questions but I'm glad we agreed that BVis's observation about who has power in most employment contracts is valid and that your fake-hypothetical question wasn't valid.

    156. Re:But DC is different,no? by DedTV · · Score: 2

      Yeah. The feds have mostly left the legal marijuana industry alone.
      They will of course jump on anyone who goes outside what the laws allow, like those that think it's ok to ship cannabis to other states or countries or who aren't operating within the law in some other manner. Enforcing laws between states and foreign countries is what the Feds are supposed to do. Doing it isn't violating the administration's stance.
      With only a couple of exceptions, mostly cases that were likely already in progress when the announcement was made, no one who was raided has been prosecuted for anything that was legal under state law. A few are up for weapons charges, a few are up for illegally transporting cannabis across state lines, a few for distributing cannabis via USPS, a few for distribution of non-cannabis drugs and a few were suspected to have foreign cartel ties.

    157. Re:But DC is different,no? by amicusNYCL · · Score: 1

      I don't think we agree on quite so much as you assume.

      --
      "Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
    158. Re:But DC is different,no? by DedTV · · Score: 1

      If Obama was doing to do anything of real merit, he'd have moved to have pot taken off schedule 1 at the very least to allow for real medical investigation of the plant.

      If he had wanted to do more, he could have put it to the states to decide.

      Obama doesn't have the power to do any of those things. That's Congress' show. Despite the rhetoric, Obama isn't a dictator with unlimited power.

      If the feds re-schedule it before there is enough public support than you will see a bunch of outraged state legislators quickly moving to make it illegal at state level, to "protect our children" of course.

      Precisely.

    159. Re:But DC is different,no? by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      "Every one of them had the option of walking away."

      like every one of the Jews had the option of not getting on the trains.

      Life, so full of options.

    160. Re:But DC is different,no? by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

      the first one doesn't even go into marijuana use, it alludes to a "commonly know fact" but gives no reaseach findings for this and then delves into how the brain functions.

      The second one describes correlation between use/age and brain matter but as we all know, correlation DOES NOT MEAN CAUSATION:

      "Decrease in hippocampal volume in regular cannabis smokers has been correlated with lifetime consumption (Ashtari et al, 2011; Yücel et al, 2008) and psychotic symptoms (Yücel et al, 2008). In Cousijn et al (2012), volume reduction in the amygdala and the hippocampus does not differ significantly between regular cannabis users and controls but still correlates with the amount of cannabis used and the severity of cannabis dependence, respectively."

      the third one is is about adolescence use and how it can impair brain development, which is pretty much true for anything given (like alcohol) or not given (proper nutrition) to a developing brain.

      So i guess not smoking makes you stupid too, at least that's the correlation i find when reading your post and using your standard for judging the same.

      " It also lowers reflex response time, and it makes you apathetic."
      Not getting enough sleep does the same thing, have you ever stayed up late? because staying up late is STUPID.

        see i can make egregious arguments without any rationality too.. fun right?

    161. Re:But DC is different,no? by dcw3 · · Score: 1

      "Every one of them had the option of walking away."

      like every one of the Jews had the option of not getting on the trains.

      Life, so full of options.

      Right, because applying for a job is like being in a Nazi prison camp. Now it's all clear to me.

      Seriously, come up with a real excuse.

      --
      Just another day in Paradise
    162. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When DC was declared and built, people moved about on foot or on horse. Think before you type. Of course people were meant to live there; how far would YOU walk or ride a horse to go to work? Look at the historic MANSIONS and their age in that town, then tell me again you don't think people were meant to live there.

    163. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      DC is not different. Read a bit before you jump in.

      Colorado? DEA/IRS is only there to break tax evaders now. Contrary to popular gossip, the DEA has no funding for going after legally licensed state entities. It's only when they sell outside of the tax structure (or the state) that they're allowed to intervene.

      Seriously, you're a very good example of the general public. Assert assumptions first, duck away and pretend it didn't happen when you turn out to be incorrect.

      Federal rescheduling decision is coming in December...

    164. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You truly are a dumbass.

      At no point were the 13 colonies ever independent countries, not even for a day.

    165. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The fact that banks were allowed to invest account holders money in the stock market is the prime reason banks lost its customers money and had no funds for loans to keep businesses afloat.

      Businesses went from healthy to broke literally overnight.

      Regardless of the reason for the stock market crash, it was the under-regulation of banks that actually caused the great depression.

      After strict banking laws were in place, the banking system was rock solid until Reagan started the bank deregulation train and of course from then it was all downhill.

      Businesses operate as sociopaths, especially large corporations and need to be heavily regulated to keep them from destroying the economy in the name of short-term profits.

      The problem is that critical industries(consumer banks, insurance companies, oil, etc) are allowed to be listed on the stock or commodities markets are the very reason why the economy hasn't righted itself. The current economic issues can be directly linked to deregulation.

    166. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When their nasty habit raises my chances of cancer because they are inconsiderate dumbasses it becomes my business.

      I bet you would be upset if I randomly shot at people with a gun with a 1 in 10000 chance of firing a projective.

      Smoking in public is no difference.

      Stop being a whiny entitled moron and die a painful death.

      I am also sick of having to pay for the consequences of your stupid mistakes.

      Anyone who gets cancer from their own bad habits should be kicked to the curb. Addicts should also be sterilized so they can't pass on their dumbass genes.

      Time to let natural selection to start working on humans again.

    167. Re:But DC is different,no? by vilanye · · Score: 1

      Jobs that don't drug test are few and far between.

      It is quite often accept the massive invasion of privacy or starve.

    168. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People who smoke a cigarette, drink a beer, smoke a joint, take prescription meds lose control of themselves?

      There is a rather large difference between using PCP and smoking a joint.

      Damn, you are one ignorant motherfucker

    169. Re:But DC is different,no? by vilanye · · Score: 1

      It is not possible for anyone to not break at least a few laws every week, unless they are a shut in.

      So you are being selective in who you label as criminals.

    170. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jobs that don't drug test are few and far between.

      It is quite often accept the massive invasion of privacy or starve.

      Yup, definitely like a Nazi prison camp. NOT. Again, there's no comparison. You might not like it, but you won't starve. You might not get the job you want, but you can still get work. Don't like it? Push for a law against it. Many of us will disagree with you, and push back. I've personally had to accept this kind of testing since the mid 70s, and I find comfort in knowing that my coworkers aren't junkies.

    171. Re:But DC is different,no? by sysrammer · · Score: 1

      You want to test someone for STD's for a job?

      --
      His ignorance covered the whole earth like a blanket, and there was hardly a hole in it anywhere. - Mark Twain
    172. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Congress gave the DEA authority to schedule drugs.

      Congress routinely delegates authority to the various executive branches because if congress had to vote on everything we would have mostly anarchy. The founders set this up on purpose. Just like "activist judges" is by design, as the constitution permits the judicial branch to make law, as well as interpret it in ways not intended.

      The DEA is part of an executive branch department, therefore Obama can direct the DEA to unschedule pot.

      Hydrocodone was moved to Schedule II by the DEA, not congress. Why congress delegated authority to the DoJ instead of the FDA is a mystery and a horrible idea. Giving those thugs the ability to schedule laws is a bad idea. Enforcement agencies should have zero regulatory power, but the DEA is not the only law
      enforcement agency that can create regulations.

      Guess who sets the waterways regulations for all US navigable waters? Not congress, it is the commandant of the US Coast Guard. There are basic laws passed by congress, but most of the detailed rules are not, they are written and enforced by the USCG.

      Every executive department has authority to make enforcable rules within the scope of US law.

    173. Re:But DC is different,no? by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You want to test someone for STD's for a job?

      It's common for marriages.

      That doesn't give you the right to examine someone's body fluids.

      Doesn't apply to jobs only. Testing for STDs is job related in Nevada (for certain jobs).

    174. Re:But DC is different,no? by vilanye · · Score: 1

      Funny how the GOP claims they want to reduce federal control of states and they immediately turn into "big government" simply because they disagree with the will of the voters.

      It is what makes the GOP so odious. They claim to want to remove the feds out of people's daily lives, but only if the people choose to live in a GOP-approved manner.

    175. Re:But DC is different,no? by vilanye · · Score: 1

      There is no knowing that your coworkers are not junkies and it says a lot about you that you think otherwise. A bigger question is why do you care?

      As long as they do their work and work well with others there is no reason to fire them based on invading their privacy. You don't even need to test someone who is obviously out of control with their addiction. They can be spotted a mile away. There is no justification for it, other than to calm the misplaced fear of ignorant cowards like yourself.

      It is getting harder to beat the tests but they are still beatable. 20 years ago it was trivial. When I was in the Army, I knew a coke-head who easily beat every test. Meanwhile, the mess hall had to stop serving poppy-seed muffins because lots of people were getting nailed for heroin use and the Army had to run more expensive tests to differentiate between them.

      False-positives are still very common.

      False-negatives are common as well. I have a prescription for a very long acting benzo(12-18 hours) that I take twice a day and I always test negative for it, even if I took it 3 hours earlier.

      Taking comfort in flawed tests is sad.

      You are obviously okay with working with alcoholics, which cause much more damage than pot-heads. You have your head twisted and are living in total ignorance.

    176. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most employers do no contracting with any government.

    177. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But if no one can tell, what is the difference?

    178. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not the employers business that you got herpes from some skank just like it is not their business that you got drunk last Friday night, or stoned.

      Asking for tests on bodily fluids is highly invasive.

      Corporations have no right to ask much less force it. If, as you fascists believe, corporations are people, then they have no more right to force you to get drug tested than I would. Are they people or not? Are they quasi-governmental agencies or not? If you answer no to either, supporting mandatory drug testing makes you a confused hypocrite.

      Your doctor has to ask you for permission to run tests. The courts can order it under limited circumstances.

      Even the cops can't force you to take even a breathalyzer which is something no one should do. Always get arrested and wait for the clearance to force a blood test. Your levels will be lower if you wait. Not that I condone driving while drunk/high, but as a general rule, cooperating with cops does nothing positive for you.

    179. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is not common for marriages. Very few states require any blood work to obtain a marriage license.

      There are only one or two states that require any blood work at all.

      Sure, to work in a brothel as a whore requires STD testing. That makes sense. The craps dealer? No.

      Health care workers need to get blood work done to catch issues early.

      Other than those few narrow instances, testing for STD's is 100% irrelevant and illegal.

      You are pointing to vary narrow and rare cases to try and defend corporations invading employees privacy when the results have zero bearing on their ability to do their job.

      That makes you a supreme fucking dumb-ass piece of shit.

    180. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Smokers have no rights?

      Really?

      Smokers are idiots and waste time, but to say that they have no rights is stupid.

      Show me the clause in the constitution where smokers are barred from having rights.

    181. Re:But DC is different,no? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Old thread, but it's legal because there isn't any law against it. Employment is a voluntary arrangement between two parties. Either party is free to make requirements, and either party is free to take it or leave it.

  2. Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seeing as how Du Pont was the reason marijuana (and hemp) was criminalized in the first place via bribery, turnabout would be fair play.

    1. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by CRCulver · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yawn. Everytime a story on marijuana comes up on a US-centric site, someone suggests that hemp is a miracle material, and it had to be banned so other industries wouldn't be threatened. If hemp is so great, then why is interest in it so relatively low in the many other industrialized countries around the world where industrial hemp has always been legal and easy to grow, even state-subdizied?

    2. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is true. Hearst demonized marijuana because hemp fiber threatened his tree based paper products.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    3. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by CRCulver · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If marijuana is such a threat to tree-based paper products, then why does paper continue to be so heavily used in many fields even in countries with hemp industries?

    4. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 4, Interesting

      No, it's always been about racism and moralizing.

      Du Pont really had nothing to do with it. And probably had more to gain from it if it were legalized because they had the capacity to grow vast fields of it. Same with Hearst. He only held minority stakes in paper mills. If hemp fiber could've out performed paper, moving his stock into hemp wouldn't have been hard.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    5. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by TheCarp · · Score: 5, Informative

      This. Not just this but this sort of moralizing and racism really goes well with jobs programs.

      Lets not forget, when prohibition ended, it left a number of federal employees with budgets to burn and fuck all to do. They were not stupid, that is no recipe for job security. Harry Anslinger, one of the most vocal proponants of the marijuana laws of the day, was head of the FBN, the very people who were left with fuck all to do after prohibition ended.

      Who better to justify law enforcement jobs than people who are seen as "immoral" or inferior and in need of being kept in their place? The thing about it is.... its a story so crazy you almost can't make shit like this up.

      Good ole Harry spent years writting letters to police chiefs, asking them to keep their eye on "jazz musicians"....seriously.... claiming one day, they were going to have an operation to round them all up. One great quote of his that sums it all up:

      Most marijuana smokers are Negroes, Hispanics, jazz musicians, and entertainers. Their satanic music is driven by marijuana, and marijuana smoking by white women makes them want to seek sexual relations with Negroes, entertainers, and others. It is a drug that causes insanity, criminality, and death â" the most violence-causing drug in the history of mankind.

      This is from a man who testified before congress and was taken seriously.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    6. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by pak9rabid · · Score: 2

      [crickets]

    7. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by oneiron · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Paper from trees is produced by a well-established economy of scale.

    8. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read parent again. Nobody said paper would be discontinued.

    9. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by TubeSteak · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If hemp is so great, then why is interest in it so relatively low in the many other industrialized countries around the world where industrial hemp has always been legal and easy to grow, even state-subdizied?

      It's a chicken and egg problem.
      There isn't much hemp cultivation, so nobody is designing purpose built harvesting machinery.
      And since there isn't any purpose built harvesting machinery, it's much harder to grow hemp on a large scale.

      There's also a reality that even though hemp can be used in just about everything, it's not always the best (or currently the cheapest) option.
      This could change if hemp harvesting and processing ever catches up on the decades of R&D that synthetics and cotton have received.

      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    10. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      Who cares? This is about recreational use being legitimized. Like alcohol. Not about Industrial uses for hemp (of which there are many but you are correct they aren't going to replace trees for pulp any time soon).

    11. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Informative

      I like the quote but it's pretty easy to prove that banning cannabis was race related when they gave it the Spanish name rather than the proper English term when referencing it in legal documents. See Marijuana is that scary stuff those dirty spics and negroes use, if they had called it by the proper English name, Cannabis, convincing the public would have been far harder because Cannabis was used to make hemp rope, the highest quality rope available at the time.

    12. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is completely false. Hemp has been farmed for centuries, we do it right now. The different is the most "interesting" part of the crop is taboo and outlawed, but the plant itself has an incredible number of usages. Not bad for a weed.

    13. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      ...was taken seriously.

      This is exactly the root of the problem, not that the man was extremely offensive, but that people believe what he said. If we only would address the issue from this angle, these people can chatter on as insistently as they like and will be nothing but background noise.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    14. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by CRCulver · · Score: 3, Informative

      As we discussed last time marijuana came up on Slashdot, that particular Anslinger quotation is hard to substantiate. The first attestation comes from decades after he supposedly said it. There are already plenty of rigorously sourced statements on marijuana with similar hyperbole, and trotting out that weakly sourced one only undermines the legalization cause.

    15. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If marijuana is such a threat to tree-based paper products, then why does paper continue to be so heavily used in many fields even in countries with hemp industries?

      If cigarettes are such a deadly substance to consume, then why do companies continue to make them and literally kill their own customers? Why are they legally allowed to?

      In a nutshell, the answer is the same as it was 80 years ago when they started criminalizing hemp and marijuana; Greed.

      Corruption also has a heavy hand here. That should be rather obvious as the US government continues to stand by the classification of marijuana as a Schedule 1 drug, meaning it's literally more dangerous than cocaine, opium, or PCP, and with zero medical benefits.

      Talk about a crock of shit.

    16. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by swillden · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Read parent again. Nobody said paper would be discontinued.

      But the claim is that it would be threatened. So... why doesn't hemp use threaten paper use where it's legal?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    17. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Besides the legal minefield, you mean?

      Everything is great if you ignore all seizure/prosecution risk.

    18. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm white and I LOVE enchiladas.

    19. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by praxis · · Score: 1

      TubeSteak didn't claim hemp wasn't farmed, he claimed that nobody designed purpose-built harvesting machinery. We have purpose-built harvesting machinery for other crops which makes them cheaper and easier to use in our industry, so we continue to put more of our efforts into those other crops.

    20. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      There is no legal minefield outside the US. In many countries, industrial hemp remained a perfectly legal industry for the whole the 20th century and beyond, and hemp continued to be used in certain niches. However, it has not managed to oust other materials like paper, it simply isn't the miracle material that many legalization advocates depict it as.

    21. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Any amount of lost market share is lost profits. It wasn't that hemp was threatening tree paper, it was that it was competition and getting rid of competition is always profitable.

    22. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      It isn't. They love that they have an additional market of rich americans to pay for hemp products that americans aren't allowed to make for americans.

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    23. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Subsidies!

    24. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      Exactly, even with the hemp of considerable subsidies to countries' hemp industries, the material has proven uncompetitive against others.

    25. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Really? You're quoting a guy named TUBESTEAK?

    26. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Skarjak · · Score: 1

      You have still not addressed the point of the person you're replying to. Hemp is not really popular even in countries in which it's been legal all along. Your conspiracy theories simply don't match up to reality. Your retort about cigarettes is completely irrelevant.

    27. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by swillden · · Score: 1

      Any amount of lost market share is lost profits. It wasn't that hemp was threatening tree paper, it was that it was competition and getting rid of competition is always profitable.

      You keep downgrading the hemp risk to tree paper. Replacement to threatening to competition... but okay, I'll run with it: can you show me any place that hemp is actually competing with tree paper?

      Note that I don't really have a dog in this fight. I lived in Colorado in 2012 and voted in favor of marijuana legalization, but I have never used the stuff and will never use it.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    28. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's always been about racism and moralizing.

      Du Pont really had nothing to do with it. And probably had more to gain from it if it were legalized because they had the capacity to grow vast fields of it. Same with Hearst. He only held minority stakes in paper mills. If hemp fiber could've out performed paper, moving his stock into hemp wouldn't have been hard.

      I have difficulty recognizing sarcasm... on the Internet, so if you are being that, apologies, but otherwise, your facts are in grave error and the source you cite do not support them. DuPont and Hearst were instrumental, for different reasons, in the ban of cannabis (those being nylon and racism, respectively). You are correct, Hearst wasn't so concerned about the price of paper, he was rich. He was concerned about oppression, in that he wished those he was bigoted towards would remain oppressed and working towards the ban of cannabis was the way he went about it. Du Pont, otoh, worked tirelessly to replace hemp wherever it was used. They lobbied the chief law guy at the Treasury dept. to make cultivating, transporting, selling it illegal. idk, maybe that had nothing to do with anything... but from the history I have gathered if not for Du Pont and Hearst, pot would have remained legal. Yes, there were and are a lot of racists, and Hearst was one. Racism and nylon... that made it illegal, and the money it generates, being illegal, for law enforcement and penitentiaries, keeps it illegal, along with money, ignorance, and racism, so the mix is a little different today.

    29. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why shouldn't there still be monkeys? He's not expecting trees to disappear, just that if hemp is superior it should displace much of the previous use of the inferior alternative. We see this all the time with new technologies. Smart phones displaced dumb phones which displaced land lines. None of the old technologies disappear entirely, but they are marginalized. That hemp is not being used (very much) in those countries where it could be legally grown is confusing, hence the question. Perhaps it's not really as great an alternative as it's touted to be. Perhaps there are difficulties with scaling production.

    30. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by ninjagin · · Score: 1

      It is probably non-obvious, but to produce enough hemp you need to plant a lot of it. Hemp seed is barred from import into the US from other places in the world where it is grown (it is treated the same as the schedule 1 drug form of the plant), and there are no large domestic hemp plantations of sufficient size to create a native seed stock. Only recently has there been any delivery of foreign hemp seed (to Colorado) but it hasn't been planted because there are some legal questions (liability, escaping plants to non-authorized growers, etc.) that needed to be answered.

      --
      .. pa-ra-bo-la, pa-ra-bo-la, 2 pi R, 2 pi R, where's your latus rectum, where's your latus rectum, 2 pi R
    31. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      why is interest in it so relatively low in the many other industrialized countries around the world

      Because the U.S. business and political culture has a lot of influence over other industrialized countries. The demand for hemp based products dropped globally pretty much decreased with the increase in demand for nylon.

    32. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Holi · · Score: 2

      Better then quoting a coward.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    33. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like the quote but it's pretty easy to prove that banning cannabis was race related when they gave it the Spanish name rather than the proper English term when referencing it in legal documents. See Marijuana is that scary stuff those dirty spics and negroes use, if they had called it by the proper English name, Cannabis, convincing the public would have been far harder because Cannabis was used to make hemp rope, the highest quality rope available at the time.

      You also forget that Holy Oils, like Abramelin oil, were made with cannabis oil for centuries!

    34. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by BronsCon · · Score: 1

      Export. Tree paper can be exported anywhere; hemp paper can only be exported to places where it is legal. Hemp clothing is generally fine, as it ca only be made from stem fibers, which don't carry any of marijuana's active ingredients (which are found in trace amounts in hemp, as well), while the leaves and buds can be processed for paper.

      --
      APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
    35. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by swillden · · Score: 1

      That still doesn't explain why it isn't used elsewhere. Not everything is sold to the US.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    36. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by RyuuzakiTetsuya · · Score: 1

      http://www.drugwarrant.com/art...

      Cite your sources too.

      --
      Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
    37. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by CRCulver · · Score: 1

      Export. Tree paper can be exported anywhere; hemp paper can only be exported to places where it is legal.

      If that were the case, places like the Soviet Union (which had a steady industrial hemp industry throughout the 20th century) would have used hemp paper for its enormous internal market and export to Eastern Bloc nations. However, hemp simply doesn't offer significant advantages over wood pulp, especially in a country that has plenty of forest.

    38. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      But the claim is that it would be threatened. So... why doesn't hemp use threaten paper use where it's legal?

      Nobody claimed that Hearst and the rest actually knew what they were talking about, merely that they feared something and sought to criminalize it via dubious methods by lying to the public and invoking 'the children'.

    39. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by swillden · · Score: 1

      But the claim is that it would be threatened. So... why doesn't hemp use threaten paper use where it's legal?

      Nobody claimed that Hearst and the rest actually knew what they were talking about, merely that they feared something and sought to criminalize it via dubious methods by lying to the public and invoking 'the children'.

      Hanlon's Razor. That I can buy.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    40. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But the claim is that it (paper) would be threatened.

      No, that was not the claim.

    41. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by swillden · · Score: 1

      But the claim is that it (paper) would be threatened.

      No, that was not the claim.

      It was Maxo-Texas' claim. (S)he wrote:

      This is true. Hearst demonized marijuana because hemp fiber threatened his tree based paper products.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    42. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      IIRC there was a man in the US who owned a business whose market niche(s) were potentially threatened by hemp. (Whether the threat was real or perceived, I'm not sure.) Being one of the "job creators" with connections, he was influential in getting the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937 passed which marked the beginning of marijuana prohibition. So, even if the industry has advanced past the interest in hemp over 80 years - it's still correct to list industrial opposition along with racism and moral panic as forces that catalyzed prohibition.

    43. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      Of course the real threat is to cotton. Some years ago I bought some hemp jeans, they outlasted cotton ones by a factor of ten. Far superior tough fabric, was a real threat to DuPonts upcoming nylon products.

    44. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Falconhell · · Score: 0

      Yeh I believe in evolution too, and frankly you are from the shallow end of the gene pool Nazi, one of those who ended up with very small dicks, poor things.

    45. Re: Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are major corporations still using Windows XP?

    46. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does pose a major threat, but we're a long way off the economies of scale for producing and processing hemp paper at the moment. We'll get there.
      And then you also have all the logging contracts that are signed and need to be completed. People's livelihoods depend on their jobs, which depend on those existing contracts. There's a lot of money and power maintaining the status quo.
      You'll need different equipment, different premises, different skills - scaling up just takes time.

    47. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by lars_stefan_axelsson · · Score: 1

      That still doesn't explain why it isn't used elsewhere. Not everything is sold to the US.

      Well, history is funny that way. I'm not well read on Hearst and hemp, but it is a plausible scenario given that economic factors are not fixed but varies.

      Say that you have two competing technologies that could potentially come to dominate the market. Even if they're not that different, say one is 10% "better" than the other, that doesn't mean that the better one will dominate the market, or that they will take market share according to their relative "goodness", or even that the "better" one will win. There are many other externalities as play, such as did one get a head start? Does it have a lot of backing? Etc. Look at the many format wars for entertainment over the years (VHS/Betamax, "HD-DVD/Blueray, etc. etc.) the first to market, with some small advantage will typically, due to network effects, come to completely dominate the market over time. So if I were Hearst, and I had just bet a pretty penny on wood pulp based paper I would certainly try to put as many obstacles in the way of the competition as I could. If I could just pull ahead a bit, I'd have time on my side to eventually guarantee complete market domination.

      So why don't we make industrial hemp based paper even where we have industrial hemp? Because there isn't enough of it in places where access to wood pulp based paper is difficult enough. The wood pulp train continues on its own momentum, and derailing/dethroning that, at this time, with something that's only maybe 10% (or 20% or 50%) better isn't going to happen. There's simply not enough money in it to make the switch and write off the sunk cost (not just plants and distribution facilities, but all the knowledge, training/teaching etc. etc. that we have of the wood pulp based process). If you want to beat out an entrenched competitor you have to be 10 times as good, not 10% better.

      Of course, there are a lot of "ifs" and "buts" when it comes to any specific market, but the overall economic theme is difficult to get away from. As soon as society starts to do something one way, it takes a lot of effort to change that. The rewards have to be substantial for it even to be considered. Which relegates hemp to the status of "also ran" when it comes to paper.

      --
      Stefan Axelsson
    48. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Read parent again. Nobody said paper would be discontinued.

      But the claim is that it would be threatened. So... why doesn't hemp use threaten paper use where it's legal?

      Feeling like your company/products would be threatened is different than your company/products actually being threatened.

    49. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I like the quote but it's pretty easy to prove that banning cannabis was race related when they gave it the Spanish name rather than the proper English term when referencing it in legal documents. See Marijuana is that scary stuff those dirty spics and negroes use, if they had called it by the proper English name, Cannabis, convincing the public would have been far harder because Cannabis was used to make hemp rope, the highest quality rope available at the time.

      The spanish name is spelled different "Marihuana" They changed the name so to Marijuana spelled differently to make it more difficult to trace. In the pre internet era all the government had to due, was burn the books and then reprint them with only the info they approved.

      By adding Marijuana a made up word into the conversation the ability to contest their lies and propaganda with researched and documented facts, (and thousands of historical records include the real name Cannabis Sativa, A. and Hemp) was eliminated.

      Reality was change, and history was manipulated, but now the truth is coming out.

      Weed is the peoples plant, and crucial to our survival. Cannabis contains hundreds of compounds that can be recombined by the body during cellular replication. These compounds are raw materials that during the mRNA transmission of cellular division an ongoing physiological process healing is induced.

      Bascially weed gives the body everything it needs to heal on a slow but constant basis. Israel the global leader on cannabis research is slowing releasing these documents and research, but it takes time to translate from Hebrew to other languages, or instantly becomes classified by Zionist media.

      However all of this exists already in an older book, well unfortunately a book of the bible that was removed. The book of Enoch states clearly the use of Cannabis and Pyschadelic mushrooms are gateways to the soul and responsible for mankinds enlightenment and spiritual self discovery, therefore the threat had to be removed, the book removed, the bible rewritten and republished this this all too powerful information removed.

      have a nice day and go back to sleep you non cannabis using puppets.

    50. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And WHERE in the world is that? DUH.

      It is of low interest because it is globally illegal pretty much. Thanks to Hurst and his Yellow Journalism (google it).

    51. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Hemp isn't a threat today any more than buggy whips are a threat to automobile makers. Or mechanical calculators are to electronic calculators.

      Man... read some history.

      Here's the wiki. The source materials are referenced below [21] to [25].

      In 1937 Hearst used his papers to push for the passage of the Marijuana Tax Act of 1937. Hearst was commended by a conference of judges, lawyers and politicians for "pioneering the national fight against dope" for the anti-marijuana editorials and articles in his papers.[21] In later years, however, Hearst's "pioneering" has been widely viewed as mere pandering to the corporate interests of DuPont, as well as protecting his own substantial forest products interests against the industrial use of hemp.[23][24] Hearst's editorial efforts with respect to the ban on hemp coincide with the court-ordered reorganization of the Hearst corporation's non-publishing assets, mainly mining and forest products, in 1937.[25]

      ---

      Today, it's not a threat. In 1937 it was a threat. Today, it could be a competitor.

      A hemp plant can produce fiber and oil in large quantities on crappy soil under comparatively arid conditions. You don't have to cut down huge numbers of trees and watch all the soil wash away next heavy rain.

      It's a potential competitor for cotton fiber and wood fiber. It's a potential competitor for corn for ethanol and diesel.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    52. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      In 1937, Hearst (who owned a chain of newspapers AND a company that made wood based paper) felt marijuana was a threat. He ran a series of "Yellow Journalism" articles demonizing marijuana as the "killer weed" associated with mexicans and backed laws to ensure that hemp was made illegal. There are many credible books on this subject. It's well known.

      Until recently, the US had a huge portion of the entire world market and if you wanted to trade with them, you couldn't risk hemp products.

      Given a high income for 80 years and 80 years of research, paper products have had many improvements and a lot of paper mills are paid off and have resultant low costs.

      Given a small market and no economies of scale, hemp paper is currently ridiculously expensive. However, hemp fabric is comparably priced to cotton fabric so as soon as you had a large hemp paper plant, it's reasonable it would have similar cost to wood pulp paper.

      As far as hemp vs cotton-- today's cotton isn't equal to even 20 year's ago cotton. It is very fragile compared to what used to be sold as cotton.

      Don't get me wrong tho. I agree with your underlying point that some hemp supporters may exaggerate it's qualities.

      But it's a pretty good product if we can remove the legal and image burdens.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    53. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, there are already factories spitting out paper whereas hemp based products have a higher initial cost of entry. It's not just the products either, cannabis plants absorb a lot of bad salts from the soil and make growing and fertilizing less strenuous on the plants trying to survive in ever saltier soils.

      This is why farmers practice crop rotation and why ancient civilizations died out around the 'cradle of humanity', they over-farmed the soil and turned the land into a dry dead sea where most plants wont bother to grow. Cannabis soaks this up and keeps on trucking (mind you, they wont be a pretty plant), after which you can try other plants or continue on the same course and turn the fiber into hemp and oils into diesel.

    54. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by vilanye · · Score: 1

      Don't forget meth.

      Meth is a schedule II drug that has some medical uses, even over the counter in its Levorotary form.

      Yup, the DEA has deemed pot to be more dangerous than meth.

    55. Re:Well, let's criminalize Du Pont Nylon now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You do realize that farmers used to be required to grow hemp by order of the King?

      Jefferson was known to grow and smoke it.

      Hemp was temporarily legalized for WW2 where many items such as parachutes were made from hemp.

  3. frst psot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    because i've no weed to smoke

  4. Wonderful by ravenswood1000 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I never in my lifetime expected to see this. It's about time

    1. Re:Wonderful by buchner.johannes · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I'm not completely familiar with the US legislative system. Does this election mean it is the law now, or it is just the expression of voters that politicians now have to form into new laws?

      --
      NB: The message above might reflect my opinion right now, but not necessarily tomorrow or next year.
    2. Re: Wonderful by C0R1D4N · · Score: 4, Informative

      It means it is no longer a violation of state law, only federal. The federal government can still enforce the laws without using local resources but they don't really want to spark a fight between state governments and the federal.

    3. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the law. State law, anyway -- federal law still says that marijuana is illegal, so the FBI could still arrest users and growers, but I think the Department of Justice has been nudging that enforcement down the list of priorities. That said, I imagine that members of Congress may be looking at these results to guide what their "opinion" on the topic should be in the future if they want to be re-elected...

    4. Re:Wonderful by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      The US legal process is so unreasonably complicated.

      Every region not only has it's own laws, but its own constitution defining how laws are passed and structured.

      The simple, short version, is that in most states, legislatures can take things members don't want to be responsible for voting for, and put them on a ballot for the next election.

      Some states have really dumb rules, like California that requires all taxes to pass a popular vote, but not all spending, and you can imagine how that lead to a catastrophic situation a few years ago.

    5. Re:Wonderful by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      It depends on the state, as the process is slightly unique for each state, but basically the state laws are almost certainly going to change.

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    6. Re:Wonderful by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      Welcome to the club.

      Sincerely, your neighbors who paved the way,
      Washington State and Colorado

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    7. Re:Wonderful by TheCarp · · Score: 2

      Lets not forget there are also states, like my own, that often have "non-binding" questions, where the question goes to the ballot but its really people are voting to "instruct the legislature to enact legislation..." meaning, the people spoke, but its still up to the legislature to write and pass a law, which they are really not actually required to do and there is no garauntee they will.

      That said I think unreasonably complicated is what it is not. If you remember that it is supposed to be a federation of states and not an imperial government, it makes a lot of sense.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    8. Re: Wonderful by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      Or as our friends on the right would say, "States Rights Beeeeotch!"

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    9. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It's fairly easy to google such things and find out for yourself...

      It's also fairly easy to just answer the fucking question if you know the answer, or shut the fuck up if you don't want to answer or don't know the answer.

      There are so many elitist dicks on this web site... Jesus fucking Christ, someone asked a question to which the answer already exists on the internet. I bet that when you're not posting on Slashdot, you spend your time deleting articles on Wikipedia and closing out questions on Stack Overflow, because it would be just fucking terrible if people with questions and people who want to answer questions are able to find each other on the internet.

      Go fuck yourself.

    10. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a little shit you are with your stupid passive aggressive ellipsis. The whole point in having a comment section is so that people can discuss the summary and, sometimes, the article. If we just want everyone to search for things then we might as well disable comments.

    11. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can be smug when you have physician assisted suicide.

    12. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Chill man, you're getting too wound up.

      If only there was some recently legalized recreational drug that you could use to take the edge off...

    13. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What kind of a fight would it be? I'd put my money on the federal winning.

    14. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a little shit you are with your stupid active aggressive ``what a little shit you are''.
      Other than that, i kind of agree.

    15. Re:Wonderful by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      It's fairly easy to google such things and find out for yourself...

      GP's question was about the US legislative system, not the ease with which one might research it.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    16. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He might be getting too wound up, but this: "It's fairly easy to google such things and find out for yourself..." is exactly why I've never found Linux worth using at home.

    17. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but at a political cost that isn't necessarily worthwhile, which means the feds are not likely to start the fight in the first place.

    18. Re: Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Well. It is a strange political dance of who has to enforce federal law. The White House had a cow a couple of years ago when someone in Arizona decided they should enforce federal immigration law. Then they had a cow again a couple of months later when they were trying to push some firearm regulations and officers of similar political persuasions said good luck getting us to enforce that.

    19. Re:Wonderful by praxis · · Score: 1

      I don't know about Colorado, but Washington has had physician-assisted suicide before it had legal recreational marijuana.

    20. Re: Wonderful by ClioCJS · · Score: 1

      I'd hope our friends on the left would say that too, as that is the constitution, and you can't pick and choose it like en Evangelical christian does with the bible.

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    21. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What a little shit you are with your mimicry of the form of my active aggressive comment.
       
      How's your day going?

    22. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Every region not only has it's own laws, but its own constitution"

      Its that way on purpose, the original idea was that the country was a loose group of disparate governments who were accountable to their citizens and the federal government would simply mediate disagreements between those states, coordinate national defense and guarantee the states followed certain guidelines regarding citizens rights. Unfortunately over time it has morphed into a system where the federal government has nearly unchecked power, is constantly playing social engineer to both the state governments and citizens by taking money from them and then "giving" it back for specific purposes and with a myriad of strings attached. I'm not saying that it is feasible for the country to completely return to the way the constitution defines our government, but it does need to swing much closer to the "strong state/weak federal" system and amend some parts of the constitution so that we don't have the rank illegality (Interstate Commerce? Patents? Taxes? etc) that we have today.

    23. Re: Wonderful by markovtextgenerator · · Score: 1

      They only care about "state's rights" when it suits their corporate masters. My fine state (Iowa) wants to force California to allow the import of non-humanely raised eggs from Iowa. It boggles the mind.

    24. Re:Wonderful by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1, Insightful

      If you live in California, you would know we already have enough taxes. The problem is when the state legislature is so lopsided in favor of the Tax and Spend Liberals who haven't found a tax they don't like, something needed to be done. The notion that the financial crisis was caused by not enough taxes is just one proof I offer that the state is in the hands of people who are just nuts.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    25. Re:Wonderful by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      The model you describe has a very bad historical track record of achieving anything approaching justice.

      It's wishful thinking, at best.

    26. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Those tax laws are the absolute worst. It could be a completely necessary tax, and we still get to have it phrased in a potentially confusing fashion and with subtle attempts to bias voters like "for government spending" included in the question.

    27. Re:Wonderful by MAXOMENOS · · Score: 1

      Actually, it's three different state measures, and each state has different rules about what the election results mean. In Oregon, the measure is now law, and the state government is now tasked with figuring out how to carry out the law. They have to come up with regulatory bureaus, figure out who will collect the taxes (likely the Oregon Liquor Control Commission), come up with licensing rules for new shops, make time for new shops to be licensed, instruct police on the changes to criminal code (e.g. you can smoke in private but not in public, you can only have so much weed, you can only have so many plants), and so on.

      Alaska has different rules. So does DC.

      Also, there's a complicating factor in that marijuana is still illegal. State law might say it's okay, but Federal law says it's still an illegal narcotic. A US Attorney with their head up their asses can prosecute every weed shop and weed grower in each of these states; even worse, they can seize all these shops' assets and the assets of all the people owning or employed by those shops, and sell those assets prior to trial. If you ask me, the Democrats have a winning issue in 2016 (or 2018, which would be a harder cycle for them) if they run on allowing states to make their own decisions about marijuana.

      Hope this helps.

    28. Re: Wonderful by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 2

      > The texts of the Bible express differing theological positions

      As the disciple James says that was _intentional_.

      James having thus spoken, the elders were in an agony of terror. Therefore James, perceiving that they were greatly afraid, said:

      "Hear me, brethren and fellow-servants. If we should give the books to all indiscriminately, and they should be corrupted by any daring men, or be perverted by interpretations, as you have heard that some have already done, it will remain even for those who really seek the truth, always to wander in error. Wherefore it is better that they should be with us, and that we should communicate them with all the fore-mentioned care to those who wish to live piously, and to save others. But if any one, after taking this adjuration, shall act otherwise, he shall with good reason incur eternal punishment. For why should not he who is the cause of the destruction of others not be destroyed himself?"

      The disciple Peter said the same thing:

      "But I would not have you think, that in saying this I take away the power of judging concerning things; but I give counsel that no one walk through devious places, and rush into errors without end. And therefore I advise not only wise men, but indeed all men who have a desire of knowing what is advantageous to them, that they seek after the true Prophet; for it is He alone who knoweth all things, and who knoweth what and how every man is seeking. For He is within the mind of every one of us, but in those who have no desire of the knowledge of God and His righteousness, He is inoperative; but He works in those who seek after that which is profitable to their souls, and kindles in them the light of knowledge. Wherefore seek Him first of all; and if you do not find Him, expect not that you shall learn anything from any other. But He is soon found by those who diligently seek Him through love of the truth, and whose souls are not taken possession of by wickedness. For He is present with those who desire Him in the innocence of their spirits, who bear patiently, and draw sighs from the bottom of their hearts through love of the truth; but He deserts malevolent minds, because as a prophet He knows the thoughts of every one. And therefore let no one think that he can find Him by his own wisdom, unless, as we have said, he empty his mind of all wickedness, and conceive a pure and faithful desire to know Him. For when any one has so prepared himself, He Himself as a prophet, seeing a mind prepared for Him, of His own accord offers Himself to his knowledge."

      > so anyone who infers a singular position from the text is picking and choosing.

      Incorrect. As the teacher Yeshua taught:

      "Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?"
      Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' This is the first and greatest commandment.
      And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.'
      All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."

      Any _apparent_ inconsistency is because:

      a) someone is not understanding the purpose of the contradiction -- it is a literal "WAKE UP!" to the reader. See next point:
      b) someone falling for the fallacy of a strict literal interpretation and completely oblivious to the 2 other higher meanings,
      c) failing to understand that _men_ wrote contradictory scripture. As the prophet Jeremiah says:

      "'How can you say, "We are wise, for we have the law of the LORD," when actually the lying pen of the scribes has handled it falsely?

      Only an complete and utter idiot would believe that God required animal sacrifices. Jeremiah shows the development of the mind of those who seek:

      Jeremiah 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I

    29. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tax and Spend is how governments work, you fucking idiot.

    30. Re: Wonderful by king+neckbeard · · Score: 1

      How can you raise an egg, humanely or otherwise?

      --
      This is my signature. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
    31. Re: Wonderful by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      It means it is no longer a violation of state law, only federal. The federal government can still enforce the laws without using local resources but they don't really want to spark a fight between state governments and the federal.

      They probably don't want to see all those minor drug arrests end up in Federal courts. I'm sure that if the Fed came down on the states, then local cops would be more than happy to call the FBI and request assistance and to turn over the perpetrators to them (or whatever the actual process would be). The end result would be that those arresting officers time, trials, and prosecutor hours would all end up on the Fed's budget and not the state's, not to mention prison costs. The Fed doesn't want that any more than the state.

    32. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, but that's the case with every model that we've tried. The concept of 'justice' among any group of humans is 'wishful thinking'.

    33. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean California where the duties of governing were constrained by the minority party until the point of near collapse?

      That isn't an example for what you think, any more than the power crisis was caused by environmental regulations. That was corruption, by a sellout Democrat governor but the gains were companies like Enron.

    34. Re: Wonderful by MooseTick · · Score: 1

      States rights aren't the end all. If a state suddenly said they were decriminalizing murder, that doesn't mean murderers get a free ticket. That's an extreme example, but valid nonetheless.

    35. Re:Wonderful by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      And yet California still manages to bumble along with an economy that's bigger than most countries in the world.

    36. Re:Wonderful by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Just like we in Oregon welcomed Washington to the club when they approved vote by mail ;)

    37. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The funding issues with many programs was caused by cutting taxes, that's hardly nuts. Hey, we don't have money for planned parenthood now since we cut taxes, this was of course as designed since Republicans have been gunning for planned parenthood for a decade. The financial crisis had nothing to do with taxes but was caused by the big banks. The federal reserve was relying on banks to make sane business decisions when regulations were lifted, unfortunately since companies are bound by law to provide maximum profit for shareholders these companies operate outside their own best interests not realizing that drinking all the water now only screws you tomorrow.

    38. Re:Wonderful by SgtAaron · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I'm not completely familiar with the US legislative system. Does this election mean it is the law now, or it is just the expression of voters that politicians now have to form into new laws?

      I haven't actually seen anyone truly respond to the question. But I may have missed it.

      Anyway, here in Oregon the ballot measure was written just like the legislature would draft a bill of law. Its wording becomes a part of state law. Our voter pamphlets have the full text of the measure. It's long. It starts with :

      Be it enacted by the People of the State of Oregon:

      This Act shall be known as:

      Control, Regulation, and Taxation of Marijuana and Industrial Hemp Act

      Woohoo! It's about damn time. Let the dominoes roll.

    39. Re: Wonderful by ClioCJS · · Score: 0, Flamebait

      I'm sorry your stupid book is so fucking useless as to ruin my example. Next time, I'll just say "pick and choose from the range of accepted beliefs on what it is to be 'good'".

      --
      -Clio
      Karma: Bad (mostly from not giving a fuck)
      Blog: http://clintjcl.wordpress.com
    40. Re: Wonderful by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Murder isn't illegal on a federal level, so yes, if murder was legalized by a state, they would get a free ticket.

      Some types of killing are illegal on a federal basis, but not the common definition of "murder" Drugs, on the other hand, are illegal on a federal basis. So a state legalizing something doesn't make it legal.

    41. Re: Wonderful by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      You don't cage the laying hen.

    42. Re:Wonderful by RoLi · · Score: 1

      Actually no, it's not easy. Laws are made so numerous, contradictory and complicated that there exists quite a large group of people who make a living with that - they are called lawyers.

    43. Re:Wonderful by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      I'm really jealous of you guys in they US. ALl we have in the UK are fucktard politicians obsessed with being "tough on drugs" and throwing as many people behind bars as possible.

      Tell you what, as soon as your federal govt. is forced to legalize it, can you invade us and force our govt. too?

    44. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Asking someone to do a little self-education is elitist now?

      How far have we fallen?

      You are the problem, not the solution.

    45. Re:Wonderful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it is exactly why you live in perpetual ignorance while blaming others for your ignorance.

      Lazy and stupid seem to be virtues these days.

  5. America is a RINO by TheNastyInThePasty · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yesterday's election was a message to Washington that America wants conservatives to represent them! Also, they want legalized pot, increased minimum wage, the right to have an abortion, insurance-provided contraception, and required paid time off at work!

    Wait, what?

    --
    The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
    1. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to copy and paste from twitter, chief.

    2. Re:America is a RINO by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

      Just one of the many contradictions that happen when you have a democracy that's made up of politicians who are elected by the people after having been bought by corporations.

      --
      SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    3. Re:America is a RINO by gman003 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, yesterday's election message was "fuck Democrats", just as 2008's was "fuck Republicans". The system just doesn't really allow a message of "fuck BOTH of them", probably because the system was made by both of them.

    4. Re:America is a RINO by swb · · Score: 1

      It all makes sense. I need a big minimum wage so I can buy good pot and pay for my girlfriend's abortion (if the pot wasn't so good, she'd remember her free pills!).

      And after all that I need a vacation!

    5. Re:America is a RINO by i+kan+reed · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It's a little more complicated than that.

      The republicans gerrymandered the fuck out of the country in 2010. That's not to implicitly forgive any past gerrymanderings by democrats or anything, but the house doesn't even remotely represent the popular sentiment of the country. My states' 2012 elections were more than enough evidence of that. 51% of voters voted for democratic candidates, 9 out of 13 seats went to republicans, with another really close. Nothing has changed since then.

      The senate, on the other hand, has always leaned a little disproportionately republican, because low-population, rural-as-hell states are overrepresented by constitutional design. Democratic control of the body is more a fluke than not, even though the soft majority of total votes tends to lean democratic.

      The people of this country are more liberal than the government of this country. Not by a huge margin, but a bit.

    6. Re:America is a RINO by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The system just doesn't really allow a message of "fuck BOTH of them"

      It does. It's just that voters are retarded.

    7. Re:America is a RINO by Payden+K.+Pringle · · Score: 1

      If I had the mod points....

      +1 to this. I voted purely Green & Libertarian (aside from where there was no option for such choices and depending on the specific issues). Then I saw my state's election results and realized how pointless it was for those two parties to even exist.

      Has there ever even been someone voted to a major political office (i.e. Senator, House Representative, or Governor of a state) that wasn't R or D?

      I experienced the full brunt of voter stupidity when a relative of mine asked me who I was voting for, then proceeded to tell me she always voted for Republicans if she didn't have any knowledge about the candidates and she never bothered studying the issues to have that knowledge.

      I believe that displays a perfect example of the problem.

    8. Re:America is a RINO by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Not really contradictions though. This is what you should expect when the majority of such a large country is broken up into two big tent parties. None of these things is actually contrary to the core princibles that drive people to choose one party or the other. These do tend to be hot button issues that many individuals care deeply about and might choose candidates based solely on.... and one party may cater to or not....but really none of them is so big in and of itself to be a contradiction for a person to support when the parties are such huge tent.

      Its kind of like we have cable at the house which includes some sports channels, does that mean you would be shocked that nobody in the house watches sports? It was all one big package, we chose the package not the channels.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    9. Re:America is a RINO by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 0

      The republicans gerrymandered the fuck out of the country in 2010.

      BINGO! We have a winner.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    10. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Instant-runoff voting would help solve the problem. Take away that whole issue of throwing your vote away.

    11. Re:America is a RINO by Khyber · · Score: 1

      "Has there ever even been someone voted to a major political office (i.e. Senator, House Representative, or Governor of a state) that wasn't R or D?"

      George Washington, John Tyler (Independents) John Adams (Federalist) William Henry Harrison, John Tyler, Zachary Taylor, Milard Fillmore (Whigs)

      --
      Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
    12. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Pot is it's own birth control.

    13. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Libertarians have the best track record of the "third parties" on winning elections, but even they have never won an office at the Federal level. They've had some good showings in some Senate/House races though, and they do regularly win a number of lesser elected offices at the State level and below. c.f. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_Party_(United_States)#Election_victories

    14. Re:America is a RINO by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 1

      Voting for someone who isn't an evil scumbag isn't throwing away your vote, though. If enough people do it, it definitely does send a message to The One Party. Voting on principle is a good thing, and something more people need to do.

    15. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maine has had multiple independent Governors, one of whom is currently a Senator.

    16. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bernie Sanders: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders

    17. Re:America is a RINO by RobotBorg · · Score: 0

      America is for the democrats, and increasingly going to be so as we go forward. When this election shakes out we'll probably find that again - Democrats win the popular vote by a moderate margin, while Republicans got a disproportionate amount of seats. Of course the message in conservative circles will be parades and 3 cheers and "America really does love our treasonously obstinate ways!" but it's all down to the broken machinery of American elections (literally so in the states using Diebold).

    18. Re:America is a RINO by Payden+K.+Pringle · · Score: 1

      Right, I left the question way too open ended. I mean based on what we currently define as Republican & Democratic parties. Possibly even counting when they flipped ideologies (i.e. Republicans used to be liberal while the Democrats conservative).

      I think that's actually another perfect example of the problem. All of those people died in the 19th century. It is time for real change.

    19. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does. It's just that voters are retarded.

      Indeed.

      After seeing so many write-in candidates on the ballot two years ago, this year I made a point to find out who I can write in on the ballot, only to be pleasantly surprised that most of the third party candidates were actually listed on the ballot this year. In Ohio, we had Anita Rios of the Green Party on the ballot for governor. Right there with a little oval beside her name, so anyone at all who wanted to say "fuck republicans and democrats" could have just colored in the circle. She got 3% of the vote IIRC.

      We also had libertarian candidates for Auditor of State and Secretary of State, neither of them did much better (about 5% IIRC). Also had James J. Condit Jr. of the Constitution party as an option for Representative to Congress (8th district). He's apparently bat-shit crazy, but I voted for him anyway as I'd rather have a representative who is honest about his quest to reveal the shadow Jewish government responsible for 9/11 (seriously) as opposed to one who will tell me whatever lies he has to in order to get himself elected. At least I knew that all Condit would do is fuck around and waste everyone's time, which is kind of the best I hope for with politicians these days. ...but of course, John Boehner won that race by a huge margin.

      Oh well, at least I tried.

    20. Re:America is a RINO by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The system just doesn't really allow a message of "fuck BOTH of them"

      It does. It's just that voters are retarded.

      And apathetic. There were only about 15 people at my polling place yesterday when I voted and I, at 51, was the youngest there. The rest were probably like my mother, voting Republican because they despise Obama and the Affordable Care Act, while enjoying their Medicare - which, ironically, I pay for - or their Tricare. Or, also like my mother, don't want to pay taxes anymore, even though those taxes pay for infrastructure (road) repairs, the Police and Fire departments, etc... (sigh)

      Democrats failed to inspire their base to give a fuck.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    21. Re:America is a RINO by Newander · · Score: 1

      Bernie Sanders is currently in the Senate.

      --

      Jesus saves and takes half damage.

    22. Re:America is a RINO by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 1

      What would you call it when people vote for Republican and Democrat scumbags, then? A wise, informed decision? I might feel just a bit superior, but it's not without reason.

    23. Re:America is a RINO by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      The system just doesn't really allow a message of "fuck BOTH of them", probably because the system was made by both of them.

      Yesterday, I voted exclusively for non-Democrat and non-Republican candidates. For offices which had no such candidate available, I voted for a write-in.

      Stop making excuses. The system does allow a message of "fuck BOTH of them", but most people aren't comfortable actually sending that message, regardless of what stance they pretend to take outside of the voting booth.

      Did you vote for any Democrats or Republicans? If so, then you have nobody but yourself to blame.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    24. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure why fix the problem when we can all vote on principle and hope that a candidate that is polling at 1% with no staff and no financial support suddenly has rainbows and gumdrops fly out of his ass. The way votes are counted, campaign financing, and redistricting all need to be completely upended to actually affect change in our broken election process.

    25. Re:America is a RINO by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Agreed, the composition of the lower house of congress is primarily the result of how districts are drawn, not how the electorate votes.

      That being said, check this out.

      You know what's wrong with that chart? That there's only two colors, and they might as well be the same color.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    26. Re:America is a RINO by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1
      --
      Time to offend someone
    27. Re:America is a RINO by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 1

      I didn't say we should keep the system the same. I'm saying that voters still do have a choice, and they choose to vote for evil scumbags.

      The reality is that most voters are retarded or apathetic. I recognize this and that's just one more reason to change the voting system.

    28. Re:America is a RINO by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      The number of solutions to our two party systems I'd endorse as an improvement over the status quo is too great to list here. (My favorites are much smaller districts and proportional party voting).

      Supporting any of them is actually my personal number 1 criteria for federal office. Too bad no one running supports any. We're just too stuck in our ways.

    29. Re:America is a RINO by gman003 · · Score: 1

      I voted for one Libertarian, one Independent, and two Democrats. The first Democrat was running unopposed, and the other was opposed only by a Republican, and both were for minor local offices only. I didn't use write-ins only because I didn't actually know of anyone worth writing in.

    30. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Jesse Venture (Reform Party of Minnesota, and then later the Independence Party of Minnesota , Elected Governor of Minnesota in 1998)

    31. Re:America is a RINO by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Too bad no one running supports any.

      Indeed, none that I've seen either.

      Furthermore, (if you're into other flavors of election reform) the candidates supported by Lessig's MAYDAY PAC didn't do too well either. Of the five "main" campaigns they targetted, only two of their supported candidates won. Of the "extra" three campaigns, all were lost. Of the additional five campaigns that were mentioned in MAYDAY's email communications (but not directly supported), only two were won. It really doesn't sound like reform is very high on most people's agenda.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    32. Re:America is a RINO by JonWan · · Score: 1

      Sure you can say fuck BOTH of them, I do it every election. I haven't voted for a democrat or republican for the last 15 or 20 years execpt for very local city / county elections. If there isn't a 3rd party running, that part of the ballot gets skipped. I don't care who is running as long as it's not a democrat or republican ( or those fake independants ) I'll mark them, I don't care who wins because they are both equally bad. I refuse to vote for the lesser of two evils anymore. The thing is, I make sure I vote! I can't wait to see a president elected with 20% of the popular vote, maybe that will get some attention. ( I might not live long enough. )

    33. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, Jesse Ventura (not Venture)

    34. Re:America is a RINO by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      I voted for one Libertarian, one Independent, and two Democrats.

      While it's not a clear "fuck BOTH of them", it's better than an overwhelming majority of voters can muster up.

      The first Democrat was running unopposed, and the other was opposed only by a Republican, and both were for minor local offices only.

      I found myself in a similar situation, hence the write-ins.

      I didn't use write-ins only because I didn't actually know of anyone worth writing in.

      Mickey Mouse. Yoda. Yourself.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    35. Re:America is a RINO by c · · Score: 1

      I believe you might be confusing "conservatives" with "Republicans". Common mistake.

      --
      Log in or piss off.
    36. Re:America is a RINO by Thanshin · · Score: 1

      See?! I told you to keep the actual agendas hidden! Now people are confused. "Should I vote to the party of my favorite animal? Or the one with the agenda I agree with and helps me most." It's an impossible decision. Easily harder than Sophie's choice.

    37. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think that's actually another perfect example of the problem. All of those people died in the 19th century. It is time for real change.

      Rest assured that no more Republican or Democrat voted into any office of consequence will die in the 19th century.

    38. Re:America is a RINO by houghi · · Score: 2

      Most elections are "Fuck the current system.". And not only in the USofA, but worldwide. The issue I have with the USofA is that there is no real choice. If I am pro-gun and pro-choice, I don't realy have a choice or I have to drop one of them.

      With a multiple party system, you would have a party that would service those (or those who are anti-gun and pro-life, or whatever opinions you have.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    39. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Horseshit, Oregon got gerrymandered right back by the Dems in 2013, so I guess your data is incorrect.
      They sucked up the population portion of Clackamas County into District 3, which is of course Portland/Multnomah county super left liberal controlled.
      As with all "rural as hell" states, the Senators are always decided by the population centers, which are normally more liberal democrat as time goes on.
      Oregon swings Dem every presidential election from 4 counties.

    40. Re:America is a RINO by volmtech · · Score: 1

      In most states over 10% of the voters register as Independent. How do you gerrymander those to vote Republican? Democrats cluster in large cities. How do you evenly distribute their votes out into Republican districts on the other side of the state?

    41. Re:America is a RINO by Dorianny · · Score: 1

      There are those that vote for a party and there are those that vote against one. It is a unfortunate eventuality of the limited choice presented by a 2 party system.

    42. Re:America is a RINO by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Yeah, gerrymandering is only allowed when Democrats do it!

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    43. Re:America is a RINO by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2, Insightful

      The republicans gerrymandered the fuck out of the country in 2010.

      I find myself wondering how they managed that, since they didn't control all the State governments, nor did they control the Federal Judiciary.

      Which are the parties actually responsible for defining legislative districts...

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    44. Re:America is a RINO by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      It looks to me like reform is the agenda, just not the reform Liberals like Lessig wanted. People are sick of Democrats at this point.

      So, in Utah, a rich white male lost to a black female, guess which one liberals championed? So much for racist sexist Mormons , huh?

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    45. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In most states over 10% of the voters register as Independent. How do you gerrymander those to vote Republican?

      You don't. You set gerrymander so the Republican has a 11% lead* so even a solid lock on Independents doesn't matter.

      Democrats cluster in large cities. How do you evenly distribute their votes out into Republican districts on the other side of the state?

      Austin, TX Area Congressional Districts, Chicago, IL Area Congressional Districts. You give Republicans/Democrats one district which they'll win overwhelmingly and the rest you win by 10-20 points. And every 10 years you get to refix the maps as people move, ideology changes, etc. Still, with the Parents Vote R -> Child Votes R, Parents Vote D -> Child Votes D being such a huge trend, for a lot of states that have large R or D populations and not much immigration, then that's enough.

      *Obviously if the distribution is that most of that 10% is in the high-Democrat area, you just allocate most of the people into the easy-win Democrat area to undercut their vote and don't have to consider the Independents in most districts.

    46. Re:America is a RINO by TheNastyInThePasty · · Score: 4, Informative

      In most states over 10% of the voters register as Independent. How do you gerrymander those to vote Republican?

      It doesn't matter what they're registered as. What matters is what they vote for and most will vote predictably.

      Democrats cluster in large cities. How do you evenly distribute their votes out into Republican districts on the other side of the state?

      You don't have to distribute the democratic votes in the major cities. You assign as many as you can to majority Republican districts and then fit the rest into a district that is as close to 100% Democrat as you can.

      Imagine a state with 800 people. Let's ignore the geographical distribution for simplicity. 59% (470) of the people vote purple, 41% (330) will vote orange, and you are in charge of drawing 4 districts such that the orange politicians remain in power. How will you do it?

      3 districts with 110 orange people and 90 purple people (that's a 10% lead in elections which is plenty).
      1 district with 200 purple people.

      Congratulations! The orange people get 3 seats and the purple people get 1 despite the purple voters being a clear majority of the total. Here is a good illustration on wikipedia that also illustrates drawing the borders around geographically distributed voters.

      --
      The best thing about UDP jokes is I don't care if you get them or not
    47. Re:America is a RINO by krakelohm · · Score: 1

      Possibly up here... http://www.adn.com/article/201... Independent gubernatorial candidate Bill Walker held a slim lead over incumbent Republican Gov. Sean Parnell in Tuesday’s general election, but the outcome was far from certain even as the last of the state’s far-flung precincts reported their tallies. ..... If Walker holds his lead, he and Mallott would make Alaska history by becoming the first nonpartisan ticket elected to the state’s top executive offices.

      --
      You are all a bunch of idots.
    48. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're close. The system was not made by both of them. The system has been hijacked by both of them and manipulated to their benefit. This is a very fixable problem. It requires people to think about who is in charge, what they're doing, and who is benefitting from it, and make changes until this is once again a government by the people and for the people. It also requires people to consider that doing things that are beneficial for the country even though they are not necessarily better for them in the short term improves their position in the long term. If you crap all over your floor it may be easier than going to the bathroom, but it's going to smell eventually and you're going to have to clean it up. What we're doing currently is crapping all over the floor.

    49. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's due to restrictions of a winner-takes-all ballot system (one person, one vote) rather than an approval-based system (where you can vote for who you approve of).

      Almost nothing, in my mind, would change elections more than switching to an approval-based system. Want to vote for a Democrat and Libertarian? There you go. Want to vote Republican and Democrat? There you go.

      The problem is that the current ballot system in most places doesn't reflect how people actually think about candidates.

      The best thing about this is that it's a relatively local issue (as far as I know), so it can happen piecemeal. I'm not holding my breath, though, as my guess is the Democrats and Republicans both have something to lose and would team up together to defeat it.

    50. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has there ever even been someone voted to a major political office (i.e. Senator, House Representative, or Governor of a state) that wasn't R or D?

      How soon we forgot about Jesse "The Body" Ventura!

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jesse_Ventura#Governor_of_Minnesota

    51. Re:America is a RINO by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      It looks to me like reform is the agenda, just not the reform Liberals like Lessig wanted. People are sick of Democrats at this point.

      Lessig is a professor, not a politician. I'm not sure why you'd classify him as a Democrat or why you think MAYDAY PAC is a partisan organization. Many of the candidates whose campaigns they were supporting were Republicans.

      So, in Utah, a rich white male lost to a black female, guess which one liberals championed? So much for racist sexist Mormons , huh?

      ... That's like pointing to Obama and saying "so much for racist Americans". Perhaps you're reading too much into this?

      Brief aside: I'm always saddened when people hear a reasonable discussion and decide to jump in and contribute by harping about liberals or conservatives, Democrats or Republicans. Fuck the lot of you for as long as you remain unable to form an original thought in your angry little heads.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    52. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This, a thousand times, voter suppression is not as isolated and acute as the news might have you believe. Fact is the less people vote, the greater the influence of lobbyists, note the recurring news item "why won't _____ be voting this election". Why do we get veterans day, memorial day, presidents day, etc. off of work and not election day?

    53. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BS. I showed up and I voted, and you know what? 65% of the ballots were Republicans running uncontested. I literally had no other choice, and I guarantee you that scenario was repeated ad infinitum the country over.

      And this is news for nerds because you know what? THIS = Gerrymandering + Computer Science.

      we did this. we need to find a way of undoing it pronto.

    54. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Speaking as a libertarian that the GOP should appeal to, the party as an institution is corrupt as fuck. I would never vote for them because of bullshit like the gerrymandering, voter disenfranchisement, and legislative obstructionism they've been pulling. I'm not saying the Democratic party is saintly, but they don't even come close to the poison flowing through the GOP.

    55. Re:America is a RINO by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      They did have control of a substantial majority of legislatures when the redistricting happened.

    56. Re:America is a RINO by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      I'm pretty sure I made it clear as hell that I don't approve of that, and you can take your invented double standard and shove it up your anti-democracy ass.

    57. Re:America is a RINO by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 1

      No, it's due to restrictions of a winner-takes-all ballot system (one person, one vote) rather than an approval-based system (where you can vote for who you approve of).

      Our system is flawed, but voters can still vote for someone they actually like. Most choose not to, making them idiots.

    58. Re:America is a RINO by sjames · · Score: 1

      Perhaps that was a vote of no confidence.

      That's the elephant in the room. Is the poor turnout true voter apathy as you imagine or is the apathy for a process perceived to make no difference.

      For example, when I spill salt, I don't throw any over my shoulder. Is it that I am apathetic towards the devil or is it simply a reflection of my strong conviction that throwing salt over my shoulder is a useless gesture?

    59. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Limiting votes to one per person is retarded.
      When there are more than two candidates, we should be able to vote for as many of them as we like. There is no good reason for disallowing this, and it would result in a far better representation of the will of the people.

      It would also give independent candidates a fair shot at governance, which is why the current powers refuse to allow it.

    60. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes but there are "democrats" who do the same thing. "Repugnikans are teh bad because evil corporations, greed, and plus warz suk" They don't really understand the underlying issues, or that the people they support are likely for the very things they are against. When it comes down to it there's not a whole lot of difference between the two parties. Both understand that it takes an enormous amount of money to run for office. Therefore the both cater to corporations and entities capable of providing a large amount of capital. So both end up serving the masters who put them in office, and that's usually in direct opposition to the public at large.

    61. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Has there ever even been someone voted to a major political office (i.e. Senator, House Representative, or Governor of a state) that wasn't R or D?

      Jessie Ventura as Minnesota Governor. The next election the race was a 3 way tie with Tim Penny (former Republican, the only one that voluntarily left office when they didn't get everything done they said they would in the time they said they would in the "Contract for America", which is a long way to say an honest politician). It seems like the Republicans all switched back to their party and Pawlenty was elected until the Interstate 35W bridge collapsed into the Mississippi.

    62. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Careful - maybe if you stretch your lips real hard you may be able to fit all of Chris Kyle's necrotic dick in your mouth.

    63. Re:America is a RINO by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      Perhaps that was a vote of no confidence.

      That's the elephant in the room. Is the poor turnout true voter apathy as you imagine or is the apathy for a process perceived to make no difference.

      One article I read speculated that poor Hispanic turnout was because they're angry with Obama for not pushing harder for Immigration Reform. Personally, I think that not voting because of something that would be stupid, as you're just giving the other side more opportunity to make things worse...

      Who knows all the real reasons. Perhaps the parent post was correct: voters are retarded.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    64. Re:America is a RINO by BenVis · · Score: 1

      To answer your question about how to gerrymander large cities out into other parts of the state, just look at the congressional districts for blue cities in red states (and presumably red cities in blue states, if those exist). You can see a nice zoomable map here:
      Congressional district map

      For examples, see Austin, TX and Durhan, NC.

      The basic plan is to take a tiny slice of the city and extend that out into a huge swath of lightly-populated land.

      --
      "Preceded by itself yields falsehood" preceded by itself yields falsehood.
    65. Re:America is a RINO by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      If there isn't a 3rd party running, that part of the ballot gets skipped.

      Write-ins, man! Write that shit in! Don't let the Democrats and Republicans split 100% of the votes for any given office.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    66. Re:America is a RINO by radl33t · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because it happens in the house based on the Census.................... Republicans controlled redistricting in 17 states controlling 173 Congressional districts, while Democrats controlled redistricting in just 6 states with 44 Congressional districts (four states with 21 Congressional districts featured split control of the process). Independent or politician-led commissions, state and federal courts, drew the maps for 15 states, and another 7 have no Congressional redistricting process because they only have one at-large seat.

    67. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      that is the beauty of google. But one of the things that pissed me off about google and voting was that they will provide to you the candidates but only the ones running Republican or Democrat, so for the apathetic that is as far as they will search. I continued searching until i found the write in candidates. But it was admittedly more work.

    68. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democrats failed to inspire their base to give a fuck.

      Remind me where my polling place is after they've finally closed the American Gulag.

    69. Re:America is a RINO by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 0

      Gerrymandering is bad regardless of who does it, but for some mysterious reason, the results of it (which are the delta between popular vote and seat distribution) strongly favor Republicans.

    70. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How does voting for R or D fix the problem? The point is your vote fixes nothing, so you might as well vote your conscience (or not at all).

    71. Re:America is a RINO by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure geography is the best way to do it either, everyone deserves representation, why not just allow each elector to cast a single ballot for any candidate and send the top-n vote-getters to congress where n is the number of districts in the state. I'm sure most will choose someone local to them, but some may choose to support a candidate that represents their constituency in some other way.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    72. Re: America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I once, years ago, would have agreed with this, but I believe you are wrong. Give the people a ranked voting system, and if nothing were to change (of parties elected to office by the same "challenged" constituency), I'll eat my shorts. This is precisely why you will not see a ranked voting system anytime soon.

      The first step to a ranked voting system is to get money out of politics ...which is precisely why you will also not see that happen anytime soon.

      The choice is an illusion. This is by design. The two parties are the same.

    73. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Democrats failed to inspire their base to give a fuck.

      The socialist party in my country made the same mistake. They didn't do much wrong but people were hurting 6 years after the GFC and they demanded something better. Now the conservative party is ruling, the economy has stalled (banks excepted) and the party is offering policies that sound like the dreams of Reagan and Bush junior combined.

    74. Re:America is a RINO by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      No, the parties will shift as and when the electorate shifts.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    75. Re: America is a RINO by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 2

      I once, years ago, would have agreed with this, but I believe you are wrong.

      I'm not. People still have a choice to vote third party, but they don't. They're afraid (consciously or otherwise, since I don't think they even think about any of this much at all) if they don't vote for the 'lesser' evil, the other evil will win. However, they're still voting for evil rather than someone they like, and they just ensure that the two parties can remain in power and unchallenged forever. No matter how futile it seems, trying it better than nothing, voting for someone you truly like is a good thing, and enough votes--even if not enough to win--can send a message to The One Party.

      The choice is an illusion. This is by design. The two parties are the same.

      It's The One Party. Vote third party, regardless of how 'futile' it seems.

    76. Re:America is a RINO by volmtech · · Score: 1

      We have a district like that in Florida. It snakes over 100 miles from Jacksonville to Orlando, collecting minorities as it goes, some places occupying only the center line of a highway to make it contiguous. How can a representative who lives in north Jacksonville represent someone who lives in central Florida? I guess it's only gerrymandering if the other party draws the lines.

      I used to be in that district until I realized I was voting my mailbox address, which is across the road from my house.

    77. Re:America is a RINO by volmtech · · Score: 1

      So if all districts are to be realigned to contain an even distribution of voters and I lean orange I should register purple to keep from getting shifted into a purple district to dilute my vote?

    78. Re:America is a RINO by penguinoid · · Score: 1

      America is a RINO

      It's spelled rhino. Also, how dare you! We're just big-boned.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    79. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try telling that to one of Bob Marley's 12 kids.

    80. Re:America is a RINO by Falconhell · · Score: 1

      We do this in .au, it's called proportional representation, you order the candidates and if the final count has no clear majority, it goes to preferences. We have at least a few I dependants who do great work.

    81. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >probably because the system was made by both of them.

      No, I'm fairly sure there were no political parties when we decided on a SMDP system.

    82. Re:America is a RINO by RobotBorg · · Score: 0

      What are you talking about? I just explained why that won't happen.

    83. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Jesse Ventura was elected Governor of Minnesota in 1998 as a member of the Reform Party of Minnesota.

    84. Re:America is a RINO by Locando · · Score: 2

      Funny, I saw this part:

      That's not to implicitly forgive any past gerrymanderings by democrats or anything,

      Either you didn't, or you deliberately ignored it to be a dick. Which one was it?

    85. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just look at the Congressional District map for Austin Texas.
      http://static.politifact.com.s3.amazonaws.com/politifact%2Fphotos%2FWEB071312austincongress.jpg

      The most liberal part of Texas yet out of six Congressional Districts that make up the City of Austin, there is only one Democrat. (district 35)

    86. Re:America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Go ahead, throw your vote away"

      Classic simpon's

    87. Re:America is a RINO by DiEx-15 · · Score: 1

      Yesterday's election was a message to Washington that America wants conservatives to represent them! Also, they want legalized pot, increased minimum wage, the right to have an abortion, insurance-provided contraception, and required paid time off at work!

      Wait, what?

      Not for long.

    88. Re:America is a RINO by vilanye · · Score: 1

      When I am faced with 2 choices and both are varying level of evil, I always write in Beelzebub.

      If evil is my only choice I choose to go all in.

    89. Re:America is a RINO by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up. Fucking brilliant.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
  6. Oregon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    July 1st 2015, the highest percentage of people calling in sick to work in Oregon will be at an all time high.

    See what I did there?

    1. Re:Oregon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      See what I did there?

      I saw you pat yourself on the back for having the same level of cutting insight as every morning-radio DJ in North America, yes.

    2. Re:Oregon! by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      Honestly, it's been basically decriminalized to the point it's trivial to obtain here for quite some time. Anyone who wanted to use it, would already be doing so. Worst case scenario, probably 90% of the state's population is within a 2 hour round trip drive of WA where it's already legal. (IE, Portland metro south to Eugene)

      The real concern I have as an Oregonian is the paranoia this will cause among police during traffic stops :(

    3. Re:Oregon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Anyone who wanted to use it, would already be doing so.

      Argh, this argument. Disclaimer: I've only been out there a few times. Maybe that's true out there.

      However, there are people who use that argument where I live in fly-over country as well, and it irritates the shit out of me. Some of us who want to use it to manage anxiety attacks and what's probably some form of PTSD and depression because nothing else fucking works (meditation, exercise, fasting, SSRIs, sphincter-clenching Puritanism [this one had the nice side effect of adding angry outbursts to my list of symptoms], etc) don't have a clue where to get it and are too scared shitless of being pulled over on a 20+ hour road trip back from somewhere it is being sold---openly, in stores, with access to a variety of cultivars and someone helpful behind the counter to perhaps advise which one would be best---to make the road trip. Not to mention that road trip would take me through some very hostile Bible-belt states.

      So, I guess until we make more progress legalizing, folks who use that argument can look forward to buying me a new liver and heart in a few years when the only things that at least changes the symptoms, alcohol and tobacco, finally rots them, all while missing out on the tax revenue.

      Our laws and superstitions about cannabis are asinine. Reefer madness! A negro might have sex with a white woman! Oh noes!

      The real concern I have as an Oregonian is the paranoia this will cause among police during traffic stops :(

      Honest question. What do you mean? Why would the police be more paranoid---of what? Am I reading you wrong?

    4. Re:Oregon! by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      Well i'm saying that any kind of 'erratic' or 'suspicious' behavior would be investigated far more closely, and without a valid test for being intoxicated at time of stop, I worry what kind of measures they'd take to enforce DUI laws.

      It's not like there's a breathalyzer for pot.

    5. Re:Oregon! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I won't consider it trivial until I can pick up a pack of Marlboro Green with my gasoline purchase. Sure, as it is currently, I'm not likely to get harassed by the cops. But I still have to go over to Dave's disheveled apartment, listen to his lousy music, and pretend to be buddies while he sorts out a bag. It is really irritating when you are stuck on a pothead/dealer's time-table.

  7. Is this CO-style recreational, or just medical? by swb · · Score: 1

    I would imagine Oregon and Alaska are recreational, but DC, too?

    Let's hope the pace quickens over the next few years -- at 3 states every two years it'l take too long to legalize it everywhere.l

    1. Re:Is this CO-style recreational, or just medical? by martas · · Score: 3, Informative
      Good question. I wonder if there's something we could do to find out. But how.... OK, petty sarcasm aside, it's recreational but somewhat limited:

      Washington, D.C.'s proposal, while scaled back compared to the Oregon proposal, allows for a person over 21 years old to posses up to two ounces of marijuana for personal use and grow up to six cannabis plants in their home. It also allows people to transfer up to one ounce of marijuana to another person, but not sell it.

      (from cnn.com)

    2. Re:Is this CO-style recreational, or just medical? by envelope · · Score: 2

      Yes, DC has voted to legalize recreational use. Also, earlier this year the DC council voted to decriminalize possession, so it was already just a $25 fine or somesuch.

      --

      appended to the end of comments you post, 120 chars
    3. Re:Is this CO-style recreational, or just medical? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was written this way because, once implemented (through a memo to cops, etc.), DC doesn't ever have to lift a finger to maintain a licensing scheme, so Congress would have to explicitly pass a bill against it instead of killing it by saying "DC cannot spend any money reducing the penalties for marijuana" as Maryland's Andy Harris tried to do before.

  8. Make up your damn minds by Sloppy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Let me guess: did the very same voters in these states also send people from the prohibition parties, to represent them in the federal government yet again? Right hand, you need to meet left hand some day.

    --
    As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
    1. Re:Make up your damn minds by halivar · · Score: 2

      Because no one has nuanced policy opinions?

    2. Re:Make up your damn minds by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      With negligible exceptions, no, they don't. That's a large part of the problem.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    3. Re:Make up your damn minds by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Most people do. Too bad there's no representation for that. You can only vote black or white, left or right, hanging or shooting.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:Make up your damn minds by Kohath · · Score: 2

      Because voters are only allowed to care about one issue.

    5. Re:Make up your damn minds by halivar · · Score: 1

      You're right; but that's why we have ballot initiatives, too. A lot of people want legal marijuana, but don't want the candidate pushing for it.

    6. Re:Make up your damn minds by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      I've found "Nuanced opinions" to be utter bullshit, and simply coded words for "not liberal enough".

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  9. They're thinkin' Big! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Flamebait

    The legalization of marijuana is an example of evil Big Government at work. How could we let this happen!? We need some sort of Small Government Superhero to comment on this article and set us all straight...

    1. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      I demand more intelligent trolls! Why does /. only have stupid trolls?

    2. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I demand intelligent people who can understand the difference between jokes, parodies, and trolling!

    3. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1, Informative

      Legalization of marijuana is by definition smaller government because it means that A) The government no longer has to police Marijuana, so it can scale down (or at least reallocate) that portion of its law enforcement activities, and B) We now have fewer laws.

    4. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by riverat1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      B) We now have fewer laws.

      Umm ... It doesn't really work that way. We (here in Oregon) now move from the realm of criminal law to regulatory law.

    5. Re: They're thinkin' Big! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I demand less whiney anonymous cowards.

    6. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Umm ... It doesn't really work that way. We (here in Oregon) now move from the realm of criminal law to regulatory law.

      Then by definition, you haven't fully legalized marijuana, you've just partially done so.

      Truly legalizing it means there are no laws about it. That means no laws setting how much you can have, what you can do with it, etc, just like anything else that somebody considers legal to have, like fried chicken.

    7. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Of course chicken, at least the chicken that is sold commercially is regulated too for quality and food safety reasons. By your definition there is practically nothing that is fully legalized.

    8. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Actually your state doesn't really do anything in that regard; the federal government does via the FDA and USDA. What little your state does probably doesn't change much with regard whether it's chicken or some other kind of fowl. So no, your counterpoint doesn't work here because there aren't any laws specific to *just* chicken.

      It's like how I often hear some derps claim that prostitution is legal in Nevada, and occasionally you hear about some derp picking up a street walker on the Vegas Strip and then wondering why he goes to jail.

      But either way I'm still going to go back to the first point: There no longer needs to be any kind of strict enforcement mechanism along with personnel and spending that goes into it, so yes, it's still smaller government no matter how you slice it.

    9. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      When you say "small government", what measurement indicates size?

    10. Re: They're thinkin' Big! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And fewer people in jail for consuming a product less harmful than the already legal one. Alcohol.

    11. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What?

      The "small government" teabaggers want to make all sorts of things illegal, including things that the government should have no say in such as gay marriage.

      Fuck, you retards are so annoyingly stupid.

    12. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because the tea baggers don't support a anti-gay marriage amendment?

      damn you are fucking stupid.

      The GOP wants the government out of people's lives as long as they live in a GOP approved manner.

    13. Re:They're thinkin' Big! by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      I demand more intelligent trolls! Why does /. only have stupid trolls?

      Once they attain a moderate level of intelligence they run for public office and are then too busy to come back and visit us.
      Or they might be getting baked and looking at LOLcats...
      Like this guy: Internet Troll

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
  10. Wait, Washington D.C. WASN'T high before? by NotDrWho · · Score: 2

    I always just assumed that most of the government there was already made up of stoners.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
    1. Re:Wait, Washington D.C. WASN'T high before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I always just assumed that most of the government there was already made up of stoners.

      No sir. Crackheads. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M...

    2. Re:Wait, Washington D.C. WASN'T high before? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the were stoners then more bills would pass and your would not see all this filibustering.
      We just planted more non-stoners to take over DC.

    3. Re:Wait, Washington D.C. WASN'T high before? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      even better than more bills getting passed, less bills would get written

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  11. I was actually thinking: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    California is MORE conservative than *ALASKA*? What has the world come to?!?!?!

    1. Re:I was actually thinking: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Doesn't Alaska pay people to live there?

    2. Re:I was actually thinking: by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      Alaska is the most socialist state in the United States. They tax the oil and distribute the proceeds to their citizens. Everybody likes free money.

  12. Vermont? by AntEater · · Score: 2

    As a life-long resident of Vermont, I'm embarrassed that these other states have passed these referendums ahead of us.

    --
    Alex, I'll take keybindings not used by Emacs for $400....
    1. Re:Vermont? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      heh, you said refer-endum.

    2. Re:Vermont? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a life-long resident of Vermont, I'm embarrassed that these other states have passed these referendums ahead of us.

      Yeah, but you get all the maple syrup you want without regulation so STFU! ;)

  13. Money by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I assume a large part of the increasing "tolerance"(pun intended) towards recreational Cannabis use is that people, business and governments are FINALLY understanding it is revenue generating.

    People use it anyway, whether it is legal or not. They have for thousands of years. Why not make some legal money out of it instead of letting the cartels have all the fun!

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    1. Re:Money by cdrudge · · Score: 2

      Not to mention the money saved by not having to incarcerate nearly as many of the 45,000 state and federal prisoners currently serving marijuana-related sentences. Each prisoner averages around $30k a year to keep locked up.

    2. Re:Money by TheCarp · · Score: 1

      Except a lot of the revenue it generates is kind of bullshit and short term. Legalized cannabis just will not be expensive without some sort of serious artificial barriers to its production and distribution, kind of like what we have under prohibition.

      This hundreds of dollars an ounce BS just is not going to hold up. All of the small time growers using lights in apartments who need those super high prices to stay in business are going to get put out of business by pure economics within a few short years.

      In my mother's day, an ounce went for about $10. I expect we wont see those prices again for quality stuff but, $50-100/ounce I would believe....and a good bit of that will be the excessive taxes.

      --
      "I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
    3. Re:Money by rahvin112 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Legalization motivations can't so easily be tied to one factor.

      There are many and people weigh them differently. There are just as people that think it's stupid to put people in jail for something that's less dangerous than alcohol as there are those that seek the tax revenue. There are other people that think laws shouldn't be intruding on what consenting adults want to do to themselves. There's another group that sees police resources wasn't policing cannabis use, not just in cost but time and the problems it causes with people respecting the law. And of course there is a group of people that just want to be able to smoke it. You just can't boil it down like you did.

      Very few people realize that the war on drugs costs $12 billion dollars a year in police and incarceration expenses (without including court and societal costs, particularly the damage civil forfeiture does to the economy). Stop that expenditure and collect tax revenue on the transaction along with bringing all production back stateside and the economic benefits are tremendous but almost no one realizes it or in the case of the "think of the children" people even care about the cost. The hope is the frontier states like Colorado will show that legalization is not only safe but sane.

      The counter weight is the media is doing their damndest to convince everyone kids are going to die BTW. How many times were you told on TV that marijuana edibles could be given out at Halloween and poison all the kids? Even though edibles have been available medically in many states for years now it's NEVER happened. You could even argue someone putting their $50 bag of THC gummies into some kids halloween bag is beyond reason, but the Media is playing this up for all it's worth. Think of the children damnit, cannabis is dangerous to them and some kid's going to end up dieing because cannabis is legal so we better hurry and ban it. Otherwise they might not have scary things to report about.

    4. Re:Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At some point the cartels will figure out how to leverage themselves into the legal business. Especially with Mexico, NAFTA and all that.

    5. Re:Money by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      45K??? that seems kinda low do you mean for the individual state i assume? or did you leave off a 0 (which i still think would be low)

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    6. Re:Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except a lot of the revenue it generates is kind of bullshit and short term. Legalized cannabis just will not be expensive without some sort of serious artificial barriers to its production and distribution, kind of like what we have under prohibition.

      I would expect it to look something like the current situation with liqueur. In some states you can only legally manufacture alcoholic drinks, even for personal use, with an expensive permit and some outrageous taxes and big institutions like Jack Daniels lobby to ensure it stays this way. In my state it's even a felony to possess anything that could be used for manufacturing alcoholic beverages without an expensive permit which is rather unfortunate because equipment like stills have perfectly good other uses like producing pure distilled water or making your own fuel.

      So that being said I totally expect legalized marijuana to become big business with all kinds of legal barriers and expensive permits. The only thing that would really change is being able to possess it as a product but small time producers will soon be crushed by big business lobbyists with deep pockets, just like with alcohol.

    7. Re:Money by mrchaotica · · Score: 1

      How many times were you told on TV that marijuana edibles could be given out at Halloween and poison all the kids? Even though edibles have been available medically in many states for years now it's NEVER happened.

      Not to mention that parents have been paranoid about any sort of non-commercially-made Halloween treats ever since the whole "razor blade in the apple" scare a couple of decades ago.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    8. Re:Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      45k were 2004 numbers and only people in an actual prison which typically means a more that 2 year sentence. There were an additional 700k+ at the time who were in local jails.

    9. Re:Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sorry, but the laws and the decriminalization are based on one thing: MONEY!

      It costs money to prosecute and incarcerate those that break the law.
      It costs money to have people intrude "on what consenting adults want to do to themselves."
      It costs liquor companies money when people smoke pot instead of drink alcohol to get a buzz.
      It costs cotton and linen growers money if we legalize hemp production.
      Et Cetera
      Et Cetera
      Et Cetera

      Sorry, all the other reasons you came up with cost (somebody) money. If you want to drown the issue in minutia and BS that makes it sound better to you, that's fine, but don't kid yourself that this has anything to do with anything but MONEY!

      P.S. I smoke, therefore I am.

    10. Re:Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No one died.... except for this guy

    11. Re:Money by steelfood · · Score: 1

      And some people just want to sell more pizza.

      --
      "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
    12. Re:Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I generally like your comment, but I think you went too far right around the time you capitalized an entire word (NEVER). I think you'd perhaps even agree with my analysis of the bottom line: the situation while quite varied can largely be summed up as a long term departure from Logic and Science. Ironically by people on a crusade against bodily enjoyment via innebriation. Please try to forgive this train of thought of mine we are on, I assure you there is a destination in mind. That disclaimed, we'll detour as I note my choices of words there- 'crusade', and 'innebriation' (versus 'inTOXICated', vs 'poisoned'). The political and religious chargedness of those words is similar to that with 'darkness' and its relation to historical and ongoing racism of 'colored' people by 'whites'. That sprinkling foundation of ideas laid, and lets get back to your choice to use the word 'NEVER'. Whatever led you to disobey the 11th commandment ('never say never'), is the same sort of alarmism that you saw vis-a-vis the HolloweenInfusedEdibles threats/warnings. The fact of the matter is that sooner or later, and I'm pretty sure its going to be sooner, you will need to revise your choice of words and be forced to abandon 'NEVER' in favor of 'on the scale of harms and threats to society, far less than that swimming pools scientifically can be shown to pose')

      Which makes a nice segway to the topic of Science. A few years ago, while I had some *measured* concerns about cannabis being effectively weopanized by pedophiles (and perhaps more effective than equivalent weoponization of the rest of the grocery store candy isle, and liquor store shelves), I still wasn't worried nearly as much about the accidental ingestion of cannabis edibles by kids on holloween especially, or year round more generally. However, within the last couple years there does seem to be some actual *gasp* Science going on that *may* suggest harmful neurological developmental factors relating to youthful cannabis use. Of course as someone who has been consuming cannabis regularly from the age of 17-39, my mind easily constructs plausible alternate interpretations of that science. For instance, I would like to see identical brainscan comparisons using a scientifically riggorous test that substitutes cannabis for very specific school lessons about abuses of power by those who were in their day and age, trusted authorities. E.g. Popes and pedophile priests, White on Black Slavery, Holocost, etc. I'm not entirely sure that these current results aren't the result of brains that are exposed to this crazy public demonization of cannabis, and the realization by young cannabis users that the real revelation is just how misplaced trust in authorities has been historically. Or defensive theory #2- who is to say that the brainscan differences they are noting are net-negative changes? Basically the science seems to currently say 'may cause differences in neurological development'. It certainly doesn't say much specific about the qualitative net good/bad. Ok, they did mention a couple words about 'working set memory'. I do hope in the coming years that much more research targets these specific things that actually stand out to me as Scientifically worth watching. But you know what? Federally, Cannabis is still Schedule 1, which last I checked years ago means that the trusted authorities still maintain it has 'no accepted medical use', and that all scientific research into the substance has been criminalized. Then Saturday Night Live and every cop show on TV for decades reminded me every couple months not to be a druggy that ends up in a PoundYouInTheAss prison. And then I had politicians doublespeaking the same threats at me. They were almost all republicans though.

    13. Re:Money by riverat1 · · Score: 1

      In Oregon (unlike Washington and I'm not sure about Colorado) and individual is allowed to grow up to 4 plants for personal use. That's going to be pretty cheap even if they have to pay the $35/ounce tax.

    14. Re:Money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Legalization motivations can't so easily be tied to one factor.

      Yes, it can. This is America, everything is tied to the dollar. Oregon's new pot law is all about tax revenue for schools and police. The two groups that don't deserve any more money. The schools already get about 54% of total tax revenue and police departments are rolling in civil forfeiture dough. My city's local department just purchased a dozen or so huge SUVs to replace the patrol cars that were new only a couple of years ago.

      All these proposals say that legalization will put the criminals out of business, but in truth it won't. I saw a TV investigative report a day or two after Washington's law went into effect and people were saying that there was so much tax added that they were going to continue buying illegally because it was MUCH cheaper. The same thing is going to happen in Oregon.

    15. Re:Money by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      For another motivation...

      Right now, if I want to get some pot, I have to find somebody who deals in illegal drugs (or satisfy the Minnesota medical marijuana act provisions, which isn't happening). This means I'm encouraging and subsidizing illegal activity. It also means I'm in close contact with somebody who might try to sell me stuff considerably more dangerous than weed. What's important here is that there are so many people smoking the stuff that it creates a lot of illegal activity.

      If we legalize the stuff, then we unclog a lot of the court system, reduce prisoner population, allow police to do something more productive, and (probably most important) have fewer people buying illegal drugs from illegal drug dealers. Basically, this would remove marijuana's status as gateway drug.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  14. Bitch set me up! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is there anything more to say about DC?

  15. Two predictions by jandersen · · Score: 2, Funny

    Now that cannabis is legal in Washington, I think we can look forward to -

    1. Much mellower politics
    2. A massive increase in sales of snacks in the area around the Conress

    1. Re:Two predictions by swb · · Score: 1

      I'm sure the cocaine consumption will keep snacking at a minimum.

    2. Re:Two predictions by dubbreak · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Humorous but true. Privileged members of society (such as members of Congress) don't need to worry about the legality of things such as recreational drugs. Whatever they were using before this law passed won't change because of it. No one is going to say, "Hey, marijuana is legal now, I'm gonna quit doing cocaine and smoke marijuana instead."

      I know plenty of professionals (lawyers, surgeons, anaesthetists etc) that use recreational drugs. The chances of them getting charged with anything if caught in procession are pretty much nil. Drug laws aren't for the protection of society in general, the purpose is to establish control over people that are viewed as "trouble makers". Upper society members that use 'responsibly' need not worry. If they make a public scene, yeah, they'll be some kind of slap on the wrist, but in general if you are rich enough or respected enough certain laws don't apply. They are for the people beneath you.

      --
      "If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
    3. Re:Two predictions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What, you think the law will stop a politician from doing something he wants to do?

      HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

    4. Re:Two predictions by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The unspoken rule of all drug use, is that you are required to keep your shit together in public. The consequences vary as you say.

  16. Fascinating juxtaposition by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

    This is one of those topics where, if you go far enough left and far enough right, the two sides happen to meet on the same issue.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Fascinating juxtaposition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is true for many things. For example, lasseiz faire capitalism inevitably leads to an economy that is almost completely run by a small number of people, just like authoritarian communism.

    2. Re:Fascinating juxtaposition by Dragonslicer · · Score: 1

      This is one of those topics where, if you go far enough left and far enough right, the two sides happen to meet on the same issue.

      It's almost as if there's more to politics than simply "left" versus "right".

    3. Re:Fascinating juxtaposition by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      libertarians are north you see it all the time with us

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  17. and.. by Cardoor · · Score: 0

    must.. keep.. the sheep... docile.

    1. Re:and.. by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 2

      And you think alcohol isn't already doing that?

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    2. Re:and.. by geekmux · · Score: 1

      And you think alcohol isn't already doing that?

      No, alcohol is far too busy creating addicts, who ironically don't have an addiction, but a "disease", which was yet another bullshit power move to justify billions in treatment facilities.

      Alcohol is also far too busy killing it's users via poisoning as well.

    3. Re:and.. by Cardoor · · Score: 1

      to a degree, absolutely. but i know people who can 'function' 24x7 stoned.. ive yet to meet someone who can do the same drunk. same same, but different.

  18. Re:tuBgi8l by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This mysterious spam seems to still be around. Almost every article seems to have a comment like that where there is some random words with BSD there somewhere.

  19. Great news again! by fustakrakich · · Score: 4, Funny

    And I am aroused by the fantasy that all those republican victories were a negative response to the NSA and is going to revive the civil rights movement.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  20. I have no problem with it being legal, per se... by mark-t · · Score: 0

    .... but in all honesty, I really can't stand the smell of marijuana, and the smell of it seems to travel considerably further and persist for considerably longer than regular cigarettes (which I also can't stand, but .cigarette smoke smell doesn't seem to hang around for as long). It's not yet legal where I live, but I'm not looking forward to when it becomes so, because I already know that some of my neighbors in my building smoke this stuff occasionally because I smell it every once in a while as it is. If it becomes legal, I fear the stench will just start to pervade the whole freaking building.

  21. Marijuana is the opium of the people by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Kochs got what they wanted

  22. Hard to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Its getting hard for the whole "its a few malcontents" justification for the feds instance on maintaining federal restrictions in the face of more and more states legalizing it. If the trend continues and the feds don't back down it could reignite the debate on the extent of federal powers which in my mind would be a good thing. The few constitutional powers which grant the federal government ANY power inside the states have been "reinterpreted" to a laughable extent, what is the point of calling yourself a republic if the feds claim the ability to regulate absolutely anything that takes place solely within the states borders.

  23. America is a RINO by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    republicans are just as incompetent and equally to blame for our shitpot as liberals, cry some more

  24. No worse than anywhere else by sjbe · · Score: 1

    The US legal process is so unreasonably complicated.

    No more so than any other major industrialized country.

    Every region not only has it's own laws, but its own constitution defining how laws are passed and structured.

    Every state has a constitution because they are by definition sovereign over that region. It's in the name: United STATES of America. The constitutions of each state are required to be compatible with the federal constitution and if there is a conflict the federal constitution wins. Local governments do not have constitutions typically though there are some exceptions. It's actually pretty straightforward in concept though law making everywhere is a bit messy in practice.

    1. Re:No worse than anywhere else by i+kan+reed · · Score: 2

      No more so than any other major industrialized country.

      Definitely more than some other major industrialized countries.

      Some other constitutional nations actually standardize their processes for regional government too.

      Like 60% of US states have unconstitutional provisions in their constitutions. It's not a maximally healthy legal environment when that happens.

    2. Re:No worse than anywhere else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A large portion of this misconception is due to the terms used, that we call our 50 states a country, instead of 50 countries in a union where the union as a whole has legal authority to limit the individual countries. The latter is far more accurate, and fits the terminology most of the rest of the world would understand.

      The USA is really much more akin to the EU as a whole, than any single country like Spain or the UK. Especially with how we pull in new states after a popular vote, integrating them, reworking our union flag, etc.

      - WolfWings, too lazy to actually login to SlashDot in years, years, and more years.

    3. Re:No worse than anywhere else by i+kan+reed · · Score: 1

      No, it's really not more like the EU.

      In the wishful thinking of legally long-outdated anti-federalists, it is like that.

      Also, the EU will grow to be more like the US, as the scope of things that are aided by international standardization expands.

    4. Re:No worse than anywhere else by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      60% of the time, it works every time.

    5. Re:No worse than anywhere else by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Local governments do not have constitutions typically though there are some exceptions.

      A city is land within a state with a local constitution. They call it "incorporated" in many places. Counties generally don't have constitutions, though municipalities can, as they are often hybrid city/county constructs.

    6. Re:No worse than anywhere else by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      The Articles of Confederation were like the initial EU. But as the EU "grows" together, it's more like the US, but with explicit rules on leaving which the US had, but abolished as part of Reconstruction.

  25. DC? Perfect. Now we can finally by jpellino · · Score: 5, Funny

    have an answer when someone says "I dunno what Congress is smoking..."

    --
    "Win treats sysadmins better than users. Mac treats users better than sysadmins. Linux treats everyone like sysadmins."
  26. Re:tuBgi8l by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They are botnet communications. I thought everyone knew this.

  27. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had no problems with legalizing marijuana, until I met some advocates for it. I don't know which way causality goes, but I'd rather err on the sober side until I can get some conclusive proof that they were total idiots before smoking.

  28. But DC is different,no? by slashdice · · Score: 1
    Yeah... but then again, the city council passed a medical marijuana statute in 2010 (first dispensary opened in 2013) and Congress didn't do anything. The best part is - there's a subsidy for anyone with an income up to 2x the poverty level. (Not from the government coffers (meaning your wallet) but from dispensaries (meaning your wallet iff you buy weed)).

    Now, I'm 100% in favor of legal marijuana (The slashdice corporate position is that the federal government lacks the authority to regulate it) but I wonder what subsidy advocates are smoking when their argument for a subsidy is that most medical marijuana users are poor and don't have a job.

    PS: plant some herb for arbor day. Even if you don't smoke, it's a beautiful plant, easy to grow (like a weed, you might say) and helps the environment and shit.

    --
    Copyright (c) 1990 - 2014 Dice. All rights reserved. Use of this comment is subject to certain Terms and Conditions.
  29. Minnesota's medical marijuana law lame, too by swb · · Score: 1

    The Democratic governor Mark Dayton is a dry drunk, so he has major cognitive dissonance and guilt when it comes to anything involving intoxicants and was in debt to police labor votes.

    So instead of a groovy, California style medical marijuana we got some lame experimental thing involving cannabis oils or something.

    But then again,. we can't buy booze in grocery stores or on Sundays, so maybe its a byproduct of our stern, Scandahoovian upbringing.

    1. Re:Minnesota's medical marijuana law lame, too by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Given how much stuff Dayton doesn't know or understand in bills he signed I'm not sure how dry he is, if he isn't drunk then he is very incompetent and should not be holding office. There was the seat license he didn't know about in the stadium bill, the various taxes he didn't know about in the last budget, the whole budget he shut down the state over because he didn't understand and then signed. Also add in that he has been on every side of most of the big issues including the minimum wage one where he believed that we may need to rethink some of the provisions he signed into law. Keep in mind that the Minnesota state governor has line item veto authority so if there are questionable provisions he could just veto them.

      I would have preferred any of the other democrats running against him in the 2010 primary as they would have at leas known what the hell was going on but Dayton had the name recognition.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    2. Re:Minnesota's medical marijuana law lame, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We also had Chris Wright, the Grass Roots Party candidate for governor, on the ballot. He supports full legalization, among other things, and he got more votes than the Libertarian candidate. If you didn't vote for him, you can't really complain too much about this.

    3. Re:Minnesota's medical marijuana law lame, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet, he (Dayton) won re-election. Competence is overrated. Winning votes is about oratory skills and the squareness of ones jawbone.

    4. Re:Minnesota's medical marijuana law lame, too by swb · · Score: 1

      I voted for him and the Grassroots candidates in the other races where they ran. Otherwise I voted Independence party as I heard they needed to get 5% in some races to stay major party status.

    5. Re:Minnesota's medical marijuana law lame, too by swb · · Score: 1

      Oratory skills? Dayton? He's a mumbler! How can anyone as inarticulate as Dayton get elected to anything?

      Oh yeah, the Dayton family fortune.

      At the end of the day, he's the last of the Minnesota merchant aristocrats dallying in we-know-what's-good-for-you, paternalistic DFL politics.

  30. Re:Great... by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

    You mean you don't want to walk around all day smelling like Bob Marley?

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  31. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are more ways to imbibe THC containing flora product than just smoking. Vaping and baked goods come to mind.

    My only issue is that pot imbibers tend to play fast and loose when it comes to the work environment. The "I don't give a fuck" attitude really doesn't go over well in production.

  32. Just what we need....pot heads in DC! by sumdumfuk · · Score: 1

    And you thought that nothing got done in the Government...just wait and see now. New take on that old song "I was going to pass a bill, but then I got high. I was going to do work, but then I got high"... They should have legalized crack instead. At least it might motivate some people in Government.

    1. Re:Just what we need....pot heads in DC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're such an optimist!

      Every time the government does something, it fucks us all over picking our pockets, taking away our liberties, or droning brown babies halfway across the world. There are some of us who want the government to do NOTHING at all. It's nicer that way.

    2. Re:Just what we need....pot heads in DC! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And you thought that nothing got done in the Government...just wait and see now. New take on that old song "I was going to pass a bill, but then I got high. I was going to do work, but then I got high"... They should have legalized crack instead. At least it might motivate some people in Government.

      I can point to dozens of examples of people from all walks of life, including presidents and other leaders, who consume cannabis on a regular basis.

      Oddly enough, I can't seem to find a single crackhead that I would even hire to cut my lawn.

      I'm not sure what you were smoking when you came up with this idea, but you should probably lay off it for a while. It obviously causes similar mass illusions that lawmakers have been having for years.

      And if you want to make government more efficient, then get rid of the bureaucratic bullshit. That has nothing to do with legalization.

  33. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's also this thing called "moderation" that you could try.

  34. Re:tuBgi8l by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    I think it's like the old numbers stations on short wave radio. They're sending coded messages to someone.

    Or they want us to think so so that we'll waste money trying to trace them and decode them.

  35. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    If you measure "respect" by "how little do they affect me in my little narcissistic bubble" then potheads don't need or want your respect, and heroin users certainly don't. They don't need enabling by the law, either, that much should be obvious by now. But they're gonna celebrate in public, mark my words, so get over it.

  36. Alaska was first, actually by Tenebrousedge · · Score: 5, Interesting

    No, actually, possession and manufacture (growing) of marijuana has been legal in Alaska since 1975. I've grown myself, and even had the attention of the authorities called to the matter, which worked out favorably. I've also had friends have growing equipment confiscated by the police, and subsequently returned with an apology. Nota bene: the legal protections applied (almost) exclusively in one's house or primary residence.

    There are some cultural differences at work here; Alaskan marijuana was (semi-)legalized under a privacy clause, which mostly stems (ironically) from a far-right desire to be left the hell alone by everyone but especially the Government. Except in the form of pork barrel projects, which everyone knows are necessary in order to compensate for the state's underdeveloped "frontier" status.

    Generally speaking, while it was legalized in the sense that cops were not going to bother one for private use, public consumption was strongly discouraged. This was not the first time full legalization has been on the ballot in Alaska, there were similar ballot measures in 2000 and 2004. It's a complicated situation; Alaska is almost ludicrously conservative compared to the other states which have legalized.

    One must give credit where credit is due, I think it's significant that after years of effort and a long history of consumption in Alaska, this measure did not succeed until after Colorado and Washington. However, ultimately, I think that the most influential state in marijuana politics would be California: their medical marijuana dispensary system has paved the way for the de-demonization of cannabis. Now, the onus is on all of us to reverse the damage that the War on Drugs has caused, particularly in America's having pushed its drug laws on the entire rest of the world through the UN.

    A side note on that: I suspect that this last part will involve the US pushing its drug laws on the rest of the world once more, but it would be nice if there were some process by which the international community could come to sane decisions about these drugs.

    --
    Those who advocate genocide deserve every protection afforded by law, and none afforded by common human decency.
    1. Re:Alaska was first, actually by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      Consider me more educated about Alaska, although I was aware of the goings on in California. Also, I hope folks realize I was just making a nonsensical, tongue-in-cheek comment just to indicate that Washington and Colorado have passed similar measures. I suppose I should have left out the "paved the way" part, because it was probably just a matter of getting their first more than anything else.

      BTW, I think conservatives are starting to come around on the drug war, albeit slowly. I think many people are starting to see that it's just not worth the trouble to criminalize the stuff. Besides, it's sort of hard to demonize the stuff now that it's decriminalized and society hasn't collapsed. Frankly, I think alcohol is much more destructive in many ways, but we all had a vivid example of what a disaster it was to prohibit that particular vice.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    2. Re:Alaska was first, actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think there will be a strong push for legalization in California in 2016. If that passes, even if the next presidential administration is strongly anti-marijuana, they'd have a much larger issue to try to put the genie back in the bottle.

      Alaska is a bright Red state, but a lot of the conservatives here lean more to Libertarian views and feel that the government has no rights to control what you do in private. That belief of privacy is so strong it's in the state constitution and was the basis of the de facto legalization in your home. You can't even look up what someone paid for a house down the street, those records are private transactions between two parties.

      It's also a long dark winter and people here like to get stoned. Alaska routinely ranks #1 in per capita usage, both overall and in the 25+ age group.

    3. Re:Alaska was first, actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose an obvious question to ask is, what will be Prohibited next? We're starting to see the end of a recreation of Prohibition, so it has to be asked. One can hope the answer is "nothing", but I suspect this will not be so.

    4. Re:Alaska was first, actually by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I was busted smoking a joint in my car down by Anchorage airport.... the cop pulled up behind me with his lights off and parked and watched me and 4 friends smoke out. When I turned on my headlights and started my car, his lights came on, parked directly behind me. I shit cat biscuits. He came up and asked up.. WHAT YA DOING? We said... listening to radio.. hanging out. He said... hard way or easy way? WHAT YOU DOING? I looked at my friend in panic and then told him "We were smoking a joint sir." He said... GO HOME, IT'S LEGAL THERE. He took our names for being in Woranzov park after hours.

  37. As if..... by gelfling · · Score: 1

    As if anyone in Oregon, Alaska or DC has ever been given a ticket let alone arrested for blazing up. Unless you're moving shoeboxes of weed I doubt anyone's been bothered by the cops.

    1. Re:As if..... by tylersoze · · Score: 2

      As if anyone in Oregon, Alaska or DC has ever been given a ticket let alone arrested for blazing up. Unless you're moving shoeboxes of weed I doubt anyone's been bothered by the cops.

      Or black, let's not forget that.

    2. Re:As if..... by PPH · · Score: 1

      Or black, let's not forget that.

      Perhaps they'll legalize that in the next election cycle. We can only hope.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  38. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by The+Ickle+Jones · · Score: 1

    So a few people poisoned the idea itself? I heard Hitler liked puppies.

  39. Marijuana Killed Steve Jobs. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He was a user. He got one of the deadliest forms of cancer. it killed him. It's a story we've heard over and over. It's not medicinal. It's not recreational. It's poison.

  40. Re:DC? Perfect. Now we can finally by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

    I always thought it was lobbyist pole.

    --
    Time to offend someone
  41. Anybody surprised? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean, look on a ballot.

    Republican candidates, Democratic candidates.

    Who wouldn't vote to stay stoned till 2016 under such circumstances? It's basically medication. Painkillers.

  42. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Where does that idea come from that just 'cause something becomes legal, suddenly everyone and their dog starts doing it? Or, as in this case, starts dropping any and all moderation.

    For example, I like sushi. I really do. It's hellish expensive where I am, but it's something that I enjoy. If it suddenly got cheap, of course I'd go on a binge right away. But then? Would I really start eating sushi every single day? Rather not. I'd even doubt that my consumption would increase. Maybe during the first month, but after that... rather unlikely.

    So I have a hard time understanding the argument "if it's legal, people will go crazy over it". Why? Would you? If, for argument's sake, Heroin got legal tomorrow, would you start shooting it into your veins?

    Then why do you think anyone else would?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  43. Hemp for Victory commercial by wasteoid · · Score: 1
  44. Winston Churchill said... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

    Winston Churchill said that America can be relied on to do the right thing, after exhausting all alternatives.

    Is this an example of that? Perhaps once every state legallises it, it will end up being legal federally. Then hopefully my own country will stop ignoring all the evidence and legalise it too.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  45. Re:Great... by neminem · · Score: 1

    Ok, so, then they get fired, what's the problem? If pot smokers (or ingesters, etc.) can't keep their hobby to themselves and it affects their work, they won't last long, no different from people who come to work drunk, or for that matter, people who can't resist gambling or watching porn at work, etc.

    Fun fact: not every person who enjoys using pot is a pothead, just like not every person who enjoys drinking is a drunkard.

    As for public smoking, well, we already have laws against public smoking, thank god. Personally I actually don't mind pot smoke smell nearly as much as tobacco smoke smell, but I still agree, both are noxious. You can certainly ban things in public for smelling terrible and being health hazards without banning them in private for being drugs. Though in this case, you mostly wouldn't even have to, because a smoking ban is a smoking ban regardless of what substance is being smoked, and we already have plenty of smoking bans.

  46. Dude, chill. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is just a test to see if you have enough self-discipline to stay clean for a few weeks before taking the drug test.

    Most places don't have a random drug testing policy, so you can do all the drugs you want after your test comes back clean.

  47. Will a Republican Congress go for it? by plopez · · Score: 1

    I doubt it. Rand Paul is an anomaly and not very popular in his party.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  48. Legalize it, but regulate it by wired_parrot · · Score: 1

    I'm all in favour of legalizing marijuana, but I also believe that it needs to be properly regulated while doing so. Smoking weed needs to be controlled in the same way that smoking tobacco currently is. Legal limits for driving under the influence of marijuana needs to be clearly established, and part of the tax revenue from marijuana sales put into safety campaigns against driving while stoned.

    This would be of benefit to the marijuana industry as well - establishing proper controls in its use will ensure that it is used in a responsible manner, and avoid a backlash from prohibitionists. All it will take is the image of a toddler killed by a stoned driver to incite the prohibitionists and undo legalization efforts - it would be better for the marijuana industry to seize the initiative now, and establish an image of responsible and controlled adult use.

    1. Re:Legalize it, but regulate it by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      So far, all states that legalized it also regulate it, though usually more in a manner similar to alcohol (with which it has more in common, anyway).

  49. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by mark-t · · Score: 1

    It's not that everyone will start doing it.... it's that those who already do it may do it more frequently, or certainly much more openly, since they would not have to pursue illegitimate channels to engage in the practice.

    Honestly, if legalizing marijuana wouldn't affect how often other people might notice the smell of it because those that practice it would no longer have any need to at least try and keep their practices as hidden as possible, I'd have absolutely no problem with it at all.

  50. Re:Speaking of All the Evidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So where's that evidence you mentioned?

  51. Now we just need to by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    put people responsible for imprisoning people over a plant in prison, retroactively. If it works for war crimes why not for other human rights violations.

  52. A quick hug for civics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My states' 2012 elections were more than enough evidence of that. 51% of voters voted for democratic candidates, 9 out of 13 seats went to republicans, with another really close. Nothing has changed since then.

    I'm a high school history teacher, so posting as anonymously, I lean independent/libertarian, but end up voting democrat most of the time. You can read into that what you will.

    It's really tough when people say something sorta true, then give evidence supporting it that is pretty weird (you should wash your hands, because otherwise you'll overheat). Your evidence isn't support for your claim, but rather it's support of the fact that you live in a republic instead of a true democracy. It's the same reason why each state has real representation as opposed to just a few controlling all votes.

    Not everyone agrees with a republic system (generally those in the current majority), but there are real reasons for it based on history and it's designed to protect the minority. e.g., as a way of picturing this you could imagine the top 6-10 states alone could decide to use the other territories as waste dumps eventually, causing them to be more desirable places to live, leading to them having more power. It's why individual states/territotires were willing to enter into a union as opposed to going it alone.

    For those who are confused about the term gerrymandering, people vote in districts to elect a representative, and now and again those districts get redrawn. In many cases those who happen to be in power try to redraw the lines to make it more likely they'll stay in power. There are pushes in places like CA lately for this to be randomized via different ways, but for the most part this gets hashed out by the winners like europe being carved up after WW1. If you are a republican in a 50/50 democrat/republican district, if you can have things redrawn so you are in a 80/20 district you're almost guaranteed to keep your seat. For the most part this becomes about protecting the incumbant (until the tea party), as those redistricted don't go away and have their own reprentatives, though when being really tricky with it you can give your party as a whole a boost.

    Yes, republicans engaged/engage in gerrmandering, but as you yourself note this has been a tit-for-tat thing with either party doing their damndest when they get a chance. The real brutal issue of gerrymandering , it's that you end up with very, very polarized representatives because they are representing very polarized districts with little desire to work together. So you end up with very liberal democrats, very conservative republicans, and a few moderates sitting in the corner.

    In terms of a solution, having a fairer process for redistricting would help, though over the past while there has been a real trend of self-segregation along party/demographics (democrats, we can't look down on the republicans for the research shows we are the biggest commiter of this) and it might mute the effect. The problem is that it's like a reverse filibuster -- the minority claims how awful it is, then when they are in a position of power to change it with the current minority, they choose to use the hell out of it.

    1. Re:A quick hug for civics by Uberbah · · Score: 0

      I'm a high school history teacher,

      ....who's never heard of the word "gerrymandering"? You're being disingenuous on one or the other.

    2. Re:A quick hug for civics by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering the OP gives a definition for the term "gerrymandering" I have a feeling you are?

  53. Picture Worth A Thousand Words. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815084/Portugal-decriminalised-drugs-Results-Use-teens-doubled-decade-nearly-fifth-15-16-year-olds-using-drugs.html

  54. It Failed in Florida by Cutting_Crew · · Score: 1

    58 YES but needed 60% to pass. Is it not 60% everywhere else?

    1. Re:It Failed in Florida by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      No. It was only 60% for Florida because Florida requires 60% of the vote for a constitutional amendment. In the other areas, none of them needed more than 50%, either because it was a simple law or happened in a state where even a constitutional amendment only needs 50% of the vote to pass.

      --
      That is all.
    2. Re:It Failed in Florida by Cutting_Crew · · Score: 1

      I am sort of wanting that percentage to go up closer to 75% simply because changing the states constitutional amendment shouldnt be THAT easy.

    3. Re:It Failed in Florida by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 1

      Granted - it should require a higher bar. Of course, if one could arrange for it to be just a bit lower for the things I want... But that's politics in a nutshell.

      --
      That is all.
  55. reality check time by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    Oh good, now the percentage of stay at home parasites who are too lazy to get a job can spend their free government money on marijuana instead of food for their kids and use getting high as escapism to "solve" all their problems all while giving themselves lung cancer. That'll be great for jobs and the economy and healthcare costs.

    1. Re:reality check time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot to put some reality into your "reality check".

    2. Re:reality check time by x_t0ken_407 · · Score: 2

      Care to link to a study showing MJ smoke causes lung cancer? Because I'll link to one that shows it not only does not cause cancer, but in fact has been shown to inhibit lung cancer cell growth: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com....

      Or, were you just regurgitating old "reefer madness" inaccuracies for some unknown reason, since other people's usage in no way affects you?

      Disclaimer: I'm a non-smoker, but a champion of facts and exterminator of ignorance.

    3. Re:reality check time by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Would you prefer them to stay at prison instead?

  56. Annnnddd failed in FL by x_t0ken_407 · · Score: 1

    Gawd I love my state. /sarcasm

    1. Re:Annnnddd failed in FL by PPH · · Score: 1

      Already have too many slow drivers in that state.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Annnnddd failed in FL by x_t0ken_407 · · Score: 1

      Hear, hear.

  57. not quite.... by tacokill · · Score: 1

    Tell that to Joe Biden's son. While I understand your point, you grossly overstate the impact.

    1. Re:not quite.... by TheBilgeRat · · Score: 3, Interesting
      Really? I think "gross overstatement" is itself a gross overstatement

      Drug prosecution and arrest happen most often in poor communities. Joe Biden's son is an outlier, not proof of lack of class bias.

    2. Re:not quite.... by swb · · Score: 2

      Joe Biden's son gets punished *because* he's Joe Biden's son and he serves as a proxy for punishing Joe Biden and Joe Biden is too high profile to fix it without a scandal.

      If Joe Biden was John Brown instead and some kind of law partner instead of a national politician, the son would skate with minimal punishment.

    3. Re:not quite.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Joe Biden's son is a prime example. Yes, he got kicked out of the Navy. But will he ever see any jail time? No, never!

  58. Picture worth nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So where's that EVIDENCE you mentioned?

    A tabloid article full of unsourced claims about usage statistics that don't even support your narrative of "mentally unstable idiots" with "fried brains" who "can't hold jobs" don't cut it. Posting it a second time doesn't change that.

  59. "What are you people, on dope?!" by MarkGriz · · Score: 1

    At least now politicians can answer honestly

    --
    Beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.
  60. Actually... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hemp hasn't beaten out either wood pulp or cotton for a very simple reason: It's a much coarser fiber.

    IE if you want to make a papyrus-like paper that will last exceedingly well (barring humidity, for the same reason as hemp rope), but not of the same fine quality as wood pulp, it is excellent. Similiarly if you are happy with coaser clothing, more robust yields, etc, hemp as a clothing material may be right for you.

    Critically: During the point where hemp could've won out as a mainstream fiber it's industry was crippled by legal regulations. The money in said industries has mostly been tied up in western europe and the US, and the R&D elsewhere has preferred 'higher margin' materials, which in turn helped drive down prices for them.

  61. Skunk weed! by ChilyWily · · Score: 1

    So what happens when my neighbor and his "friends" all start smoking weed and stinkin' up my home?

    Legalization sure... I don't really care what people do in their own homes, but when the stinky effects start impacting me and my neighbors respond to friendly, "hey would you do something about ..." with a FU reply... what recourse do I have?

    I'm still undecided whether now I'll have to contend with stoned people on the road

    1. Re:Skunk weed! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 3, Informative

      So what happens when my neighbor and his "friends" all start smoking weed and stinkin' up my home?

      Same thing you would do today if they all start smoking tobacco and stinkin' up your home. You would tell them to stop, and if they don't, call the police and complain about public disturbance.

      I'm still undecided whether now I'll have to contend with stoned people on the road

      About as much as you would about drunk people on the road (and both would qualify as DUI, with all the legal penalties that entails). Having said that, stoned people are not as dangerous as drunk people - while both slow down reaction time, drunk people are not aware of that fact (and, in fact, often perceive it as improved), while stoned people are. In other words, a stoned guy is more likely to drive slowly and carefully to offset the influence of the drug, while a drunk guy is more likely to drive even more aggressively than usual.

    2. Re:Skunk weed! by cbhacking · · Score: 1

      Yep. As a friend of mine pointed out, if you see somebody on the road driving slow as fuck at 2AM, they're probably high as a kite... and while that's illegal here (I live in Washington, where smoking it is legal but driving afterward is DUI) I'm not terribly worried by it. The people going 70 in a 50 zone and continuously crossing the lane markers are way, way scarier; those are the drunks.

      --
      There's no place I could be, since I've found Serenity...
  62. Just wanted to point out... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    California hasn't carte blanche legalized it, and given the fact that at minimum 1/4 to 1/3 of the dispensaries in California are ex-dealers turned 'legitimate' businessmen, I don't forsee us getting the same level of statewide recognition that other states have unless it somehow reaches a general ballot, and at this point it could be 2 to 8 years away.

    Rather disappointing for a state formerly considered progressive on a whole slew of issues, but not really surprising given both the sloth in enhancing our vehicular smog testing regulations, gay marriage, and dozens of other issues of the past 20ish years.

  63. Might just be your state.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Democrats still won the major positions in California, although thankfully not by a landslide. This despite some of the shenanigans they've pulled the past term, notably including some of the policies Brown has been pushing that appear pro-real estate and/or pro-corporation to the detriment of the general populace. Funny that's generally pushed as the Republican position, but I guess after Schwartzeneggar the parties in California are bi-partisan curious :)

  64. That's some high-tech marijuana legalization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    News for nerds..

  65. Our ballot didn't have writeins. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except for a few minor positions which probably didn't have off-ballot options to begin win (many positions require the write-in to have already filed paperwork as a candidate and if they haven't then the writein is just a waste of a vote since it wouldn't be counted anyway.)

    While I am all for writein voting options wherever possible the system is designed to throw them away. None of the computerized systems can tally them which means hand tallying has to be done. Short of a landslide vote for a writein candidate (greater than 30-40 percent with people willing to push to verify the tallies) the odds of your write-in vote being tallied, nevermind being attributed to the right person are astronomically low. Additionally write-ins leave blatant proof of your identity on your ballot. Combining your signature on the voter registry when you enter with the small number of writeins at any particular voting station would be enough to identify you. Combined with the national database of check/credit card signatures and I'll bet they can identify you to a very small margin.

    Food for thought.

    1. Re:Our ballot didn't have writeins. by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 1

      That's interesting. We've had electronic voting machines (NJ) for as long as I've been able to vote (2000). Write-ins are typed in (using a non-QWERTY keyboard), so I'd imagine that they are tallied electronically. Even if they're not tallied, I'd hope they're at least counted as "non Republican/Democrat" -- otherwise, how is that not fraud? Honestly, I don't know much about how voting works behind the scenes. Is there a way for me to learn more about how votes are actually counted?

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
  66. Florida by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    The Florida measure failed at 58% yes vs 45% no.
    In 2006 a constitutional amendment was passed requiring 60% to pass a constitutional amendment...It passed with 57%.
    60% was chosen because nothing EVER reaches that number, never once.
    So Florida, even though the majority wants this passed, we don't get it. Yay democracy!
    On another note, the congressional districts were re-drawn such that with an exit poll with 60% participation indicated a heavy loss for Rick Scott (like 30%), but because of the re-draw, he won by ~1%.
    But no, tell me how this is legitimate and for our safety again.

    1. Re:Florida by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I remember when the "show all posts" button actually did that.
      Fuck /.

    2. Re:Florida by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It still does. Try using a browser that works.

  67. Well yeah.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who doesn't like spoked rims?

    >:->

  68. Human Carnage Collateral Damage ??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Actually, a picture is evidence. And statistics provided by research groups (not tabloids), fully identified in the article, are also evidence. But I'm still listening. Why don't you tell me your "narrative" for the emaciated young man in the photograph.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2815084/Portugal-decriminalised-drugs-Results-Use-teens-doubled-decade-nearly-fifth-15-16-year-olds-using-drugs.html

  69. High as a kite... by s1d3track3D · · Score: 1

    As much as old people want the country controlled by republicans they also want to be as high as a kite during the erosion of their rights....

  70. Florida failed to pass with 58% voting FOR passage by GinRummy33 · · Score: 1

    Floridians overwhelmingly voted for passage of Amendment 2, 58% yes to 42% no, but for some reason it required a 60% majority to actually "pass" the voting. So even though the supporters outnumbered the doubters by almost 50% of the voters, there will be no smokers in the Sunshine State any time soon. The other states with similar amendments passed theirs, all with a closer voting margins.

  71. What carnage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The Daily Mail is a tabloid. It claims statistics from other agencies, but does not cite any sources. And it has been known to outright fabricate stories.

    As for your pictures, what are you claiming that they "prove" in regards to marijuana? One of them is of someone allegedly using heroin and tobacco (if it's even real, a generous assumption given the Mail), the other is clearly a stock photo with no relevance at all.

    You talk about "carnage" and "collateral damage" while showing no such thing. You have made specific claims about marijuana users being unable to hold jobs, and nothing you have said or linked to supports that claim.

    You have no evidence, you have no credibility, and you know it.

  72. Wrong Drug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's coke.

  73. Re:Speaking of All the Evidence... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ooh! I love Tea and Kittens. Thanks for giving me my fix of Daily Fail.

    Got any evidence this time?

  74. Uhhhh by gatfirls · · Score: 1

    That's not the way I have ever seen it work. Usually as part of the hiring/on-boarding process they will instruct you to go (usually immediately) and get a test. I have never heard of them waiting 30 days from any point to test you. The whole point is the element of surprise from what I have seen.

    I actually know someone who had a job offer rescinded because they misunderstood and waited a couple days before going to take the test.

    Drug testing is another one of those things that has been perverted by lawyers and insurance companies. Most employers could care less what you do in your off time.

  75. NSA? by js_sebastian · · Score: 1

    And I am aroused by the fantasy that all those republican victories were a negative response to the NSA and is going to revive the civil rights movement.

    except that democratic senator Mark Udall of Colorado just lost his seat, and he was one of a grand total of 2 people in the senate who have been trying to excercise their duty to oversee what the NSA is doing since before the snowden leaks (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/nsa-critic-udall-is-sent-packing-as-republicans-grab-senate/)

  76. links anyone? by js_sebastian · · Score: 1

    And I am aroused by the fantasy that all those republican victories were a negative response to the NSA and is going to revive the civil rights movement.

    except that democratic senator Mark Udall of Colorado just lost his seat, and he was one of a grand total of 2 people in the senate who have been trying to excercise their duty to oversee what the NSA is doing since before the snowden leaks (http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2014/11/nsa-critic-udall-is-sent-packing-as-republicans-grab-senate/)

    did slashdot ever hear of making URLs I type in into those magical clicky-clicky link things that I teleport me to other websites?

    1. Re:links anyone? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Yes, they have... And don't worry about Udall's loss. He wasn't stopping anything. There are two independents in all of congress, nothing will be done about the NSA. Forget about it. It's over. This is what people want, and there's no arguing with it.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  77. The Fed could stop it easily if they wanted to by pak9rabid · · Score: 2

    If the federal government really wanted to stop the spread of or even regress the legalization of marijuana at the state level, all they have to do is cut federal funding for various things until the state in question made laws making it illegal again, similar to what they did with the National Minimum Drinking Age Act back in the '80s.

    1. Re:The Fed could stop it easily if they wanted to by voss · · Score: 1

      However now these states would make more from Marijuana then they would lose from highway funds.

  78. Re:Great... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey douche bag. If you were familiar at all with any of these laws you'd know that public consumption is still illegal. This is opening up avenues for purchase and sale so that people can take it home and use it there.

  79. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't like the smell of fat people. Yes, they do have an accompanying odor, or at least there's a correlation between letting your gut go and failing to apply appropriate quantities of soap/deodorant. Rather than petition the government to outlaw obesity, my solution is to stay the hell away from them. I suggest this would apply just as well to your situation.

    Your personal preference for certain aromas is really rather irrelevant to the question of whether or not something should be illegal (unless you are a VIP, then your whim is reason enough to get the law involved).

  80. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

    more openly, I could see that.
    More often I would have thought comes down to economics rather than legality. If it gets a lot cheaper though, how will the "one dispensary per 13000 people" business model work in my town. I can't see there being enough "connoisseur" demand to keep the dispensaries open once every mini-mart starts selling it.

    --
    Nullius in verba
  81. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    To be blunt, my answer to "mind if I smoke?" has always been "wouldn't care if you burned". As long as he's doing it where I don't have to suffer from it, it's all right. It's ok if done in public where I can easily move away and where it dissipates quickly, it's ok where there is explicitly a "smoking area", where I, as a non-smoker, simply don't WANT to go to, and of course it is ok in any place owned by the person (and not designated as an area where people without a personal connection to the person will congregate, e.g. in a restaurant belonging to the smoker), since I do insist that in the privacy of somebody's home anything he wants to do is a-ok as long as he does not force any other person to suffer it.

    Anyone's liberty stops where it infringes on the liberty of someone else. And I do think that the same that applies to tobacco smoke should apply to marijuana smoke: Do it where nobody else is bothered by it, and especially do NOT do it where people eat, sleep or where kids are about.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  82. Google/Bing: Heroin Epidemic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's plenty of evidence.

    1. Re:Google/Bing: Heroin Epidemic. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      First, YOU are responsible for providing evidence for your own claim. Telling me to go find it for you is admitting that you don't have enough confidence in your own position to back it up. If you can't be bothered to support your own claim, why should I support it for you?

      Second, this is about MARIJUANA. You claimed that legalizing MARIJUANA would create "a nation of mentally unstable idiots" with "fried brains" who "can't hold a job". Pointing to heroin is moving the goalposts.

      You have no evidence, you have no credibility, and you have admitted it.

  83. Why not Florida? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wtf I live in Florida we had 58-42 and it didn't pass. Thats kind of insulting.

    1. Re:Why not Florida? by voss · · Score: 1

      Florida requires 60% for an initiative to pass. Thank Jeb Bush.

  84. Re:I have no problem with it being legal, per se.. by mark-t · · Score: 1

    in the privacy of somebody's home anything he wants to do is a-ok as long as he does not force any other person to suffer it

    As I said, however... the smell of marijuana does not seem to dissipate very quickly indoors, and I know there are people in my building that smoke it, from the occasional odors that waft through the hallways every so often. If it becomes legal here, my concern is that those who smoke it may use less care in keeping the smell from getting outside of their own unit, since there would be no further reason for them to try and be discrete about their practice, and the odor will linger outside their unit for much longer, possibly even getting into nearby units, since the unit doors are just plain old fire-resistant doors, and certainly not hermetically sealed.

  85. subvert the dirt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Shove said buds in your espresso grinder, set setting to finest. Pack your puck in your e61, and enjoy a cup of ohhhhhhhhhhhhh. For best results, reintroduce your fiber back into your drinking apparatus.

  86. Not necessarily apathetic by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Government is like religion in that a person can be either (1) theist, (2) atheist, (3) agnostic, or (4) apathetic. As for the people who don't vote, they could be any of the latter three. Personally I'm atheist, and that's why I don't vote.

  87. troubled by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Am I the only one troubled by this. Let me get this straight, our country has a drug problem so let's make some drugs legal. What the heck???

  88. Hope and Change by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Florida hit 58% approval for medical marijuana in a year with poor Democratic and young turnout. Florida requires 60% to pass. The Governor was re-elected with 42%.

    There are already efforts to get full legalization on the ballot in 2016 when presumably there will be significant turnout.

  89. Just DON'T DO DRUGS. Problem solved. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just DON'T DO DRUGS. Problem solved.

    Why does anyone feel the need to do drugs at all? First, it's bad for your health. Secondly, while on drugs you're not totally in control of yourself. Why would you want to put yourself through that? I've never understood this, not when I was a kid, not when I was a teen and certainly not as an adult! And no, I'm not a bible thumping religious freak either.

  90. United States ....? by danknight48 · · Score: 1

    Marijuana Legalized In Oregon, Alaska, and Washington DC

    United my ass :P

  91. Not so fast by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Have to wonder how this will play out. Will this be Cigarettes take two? Get people hooked and now it's harmful to our health. Then the lawsuits. Any big corporation would be nuts to take it on.

    Then of course we'll have the dumbasses smoking and driving, and so on.