Slashdot Mirror
Russia Takes Down Steve Jobs Memorial After Apple's Tim Cook Comes Out
An anonymous reader writes Citing the need to abide by a law combating "gay propaganda," a memorial dedicated to the late Apple founder Steve Jobs has been torn down. This comes on the heels of new CEO Tim Cook coming out as gay. "In Russia, gay propaganda and other sexual perversions among minors are prohibited by law," ZEFS (a Russian group of companies that originally erected the statue) said, noting that the memorial had been "in an area of direct access for young students and scholars". "After Apple CEO Tim Cook publicly called for sodomy, the monument was taken down to abide to the Russian federal law protecting children from information promoting denial of traditional family values."
After Apple CEO Tim Cook publicly called for sodomy
I know this is terrible and all, but as someone completely unaffected by this (not an apple fanboy, russian or gay) I find some kind of weird surreal humour in the whole thing.
Mr Putin says there is no discrimination against gay people in Russia and the law was needed only to protect young people
Like, how do you even reach this point of reasoning.
Putin on a horse half naked is not gay.
... the government sodomizes you!
Res ipsa loquitur.
Glad we finally put that one to rest.
Thank you, Russian oligarchs, putocrats, and dictators.
Now that we've settled that, next up on /.... who's smarter, Hillary Clinton or Martha Bush. Hint: there's no right answer.
E
By the same logic, I may well be arrested for sodomy because one of my distant relations is gay.
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
Removal of Steve Jobs memorial due to 'gay propaganda' law turns out to be PR hoax
http://rt.com/news/201855-steve-jobs-memorial-gay/
I didn't know a person could become gay-tainted after they die if their successor is gay. Hope the next person to have my job after I die isn't gay, otherwise my tombstone might set off someone's gaydar. that would be embarrassing.
Obviously Steve Jobs the monolith didn't make the apes any more intelligent.
Given the number of hits on pron sites for "Russian teen anal", I dare say Russia doesn't have anything against sodomy.
"Apple CEO Tim Cook publicly called for sodomy", well, I've only got myself to blame. I should have read the EULA more carefully.
and why was there a monument to Steve Jobs anyway? Seems like "today is monday" would be a good enough reason to tear it down. That said, this was a spectacularly bad reason, I'm just saying no reason was necessary. Doing something for the wrong reason doesn't make it the wrong thing to do - if I make a habit of drinking several glasses of water a day because I think the midichlorians need it for fuel, that doesn't mean I was wrong for drinking water...
That is all.
And yet we allow old people, sterile people and people who may not properly even have sex to marry...
That someone still seriously believes that homosexuality is a threat to population is just plain bizarre. First of all, nothing stops homosexuals from having children, and many do, and second of all, they remain a very small part of the population (something like 1 in 10 people).
And if Russia is really interested in repopulating its depleted population, it should be targeting vodka and a persistently shitty economy. Homosexuals are not responsible for the decades long drain on Russian population.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Give the people an "external" enemy, and they ignore internal problems...
What did we learn from prohibition? And why Steve Jobs? Steve wasn't gay.
And yet we allow old people, sterile people and people who may not properly even have sex to marry...
Who is "we"? Is it Russia? If not, why should Russia care about what you allow and don't allow?
Why should they believe your unsupported assertions that homosexuality is somehow not counterproductive to population growth?
Russians celebrate homosexuality when they use electronics.
The world celebrates homosexuality when we argue in real-time.
Putin celebrates homosexuality every time he takes a secure phonecall.
Or have we all forgottern Mr. Turing.
(And why wouldn't Putin take his shirt off when on a horse? One does tend to get hot and bothered when they are turned on.)
Indeed, the reasons stated for removal of the monument was the gay thing. However, that's only half the story. The other half, for some reason, isn't really being reported in US, presumably because tomorrow's the election day and no one wants to bring up the NSA spy ring.
Just make more energy outages. No internet porn, and nothing else to do than banging. Japan has a big problem because people rather consume porn than sleep with each other.
oowww owww oww ow ow ow ow, Barbra Streisand
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
These people are so fucking sutpid, it is astonishing to think that they developed nuclear weapons; waged the Cold War; and to this day, launch people into space! Their entirely dysfunctional leadership does not seem capable of any rational thought. Perhaps those early accomplishments were just manifestations of autonomous reflexes?
Gaybola
And yes you would practically have to french kiss the guy to catch it!
I'm (back) in the U.S.S.R and I'm staring right at it!
Since you're the one making the claim that homosexuality is counterproductive to population growth, I'm sure you can actually provide some citations.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Pure homosexuals are also a minority. There may be some evolutionary benefit to "sacrificing" a small portion of the breeding population, allowing them to act as foster parents to the children of deceased heterosexual relatives. That takes the strain off of other couples that are raising their own children. I'd also argue that a sexual couple is a more basic social grouping than a family is, acting as a core that a family can grow around. Genes want to propagate, and they can get very creative in their methods. They often find counter-intuitive optimizations. Even if an individuals genes aren't spread directly through procreation, they can have a supportive influence on closely-related genes.
It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
If they claim the monument that looks like an iPhone is gay propaganda, then it should follow that all actual handheld iPhones are also gay propaganda. It also follows that all Apple products are gay propaganda. I dare them to ban iPhones and all other Apple products in Russia. Do it. DO IT.
Actually, no, only a fraction of the population is consuming all the porn. The majority are just too damn busy and stressed out to even want sex. That's scary.
Putin and the Russian Orthodox Church do a lot of *SEXUAL* favors for each other, as seen in their tearing down a memorial to Steve Jobs because his successor came out as gay, which if allowed to run unchecked would lead to a huge openly gay populace, thus making it harder for them to cover up their misdeeds with minors who wouldn't feel so ashamed of the sorts of activities they once did with a priest, or the leader of their nation?
Say it is so!
>:-D
No need. It's obvious.
Also, what would be the point? To convince you? Why should Russia care whether you agree with their policies?
I one saw driving through cattle country up in the Rockies.
Seriously a bull with his dick hanging out flopping himself right on top of another as my mom commented on mating habits of animals. Then went 'uhm ooops, those are both bulls.'
We had quite a laugh at her expense over that one.
Glad they found an excuse, that statue was honestly one of the most freakishly ugly pieces of work I've ever come across.
No it is not obvious. If you can provide actual citations showing that homosexuality depresses populations, then I have no reason whatsoever to believe your claim.
What I do know is that homosexuals, at least in any industrialized population, make up roughly 5 to 10% of the population, and that is likely be consistent for at least decades, if not longer.
When someone responds to a demand for actual references in peer reviewed literature with "no, I won't, because my claim is obvious", then the only thing I can discern from that is that you have no data to back it up, and your simply asserting without qualification or data, that your prejudice is true.
As to Russia, I cannot influence them, but that doesn't mean I should approve of their persecution of homosexuals.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I read the summary as "...after Apple's Tim cock comes out". May be that tells something about me...
Personally, I would disagree with the Russian Federation's decision about how to view and treat gay people. However, the reflexive leftism and consequent lack of logic found yet again in modern slashdot really disturbs me The same group, who universally heralded the coming out of Tim Cook as a positive thing and helpful for society, is now stating that having prominent gay figures has no impact. I have to ask, how fucking intellectually dishonest are you? The logic of the Russian Federations government is sound, much for the same reason slashdot championed cook. It DOES matter that their are heroes and figures in key roles. It lends legitimacy to gayness. It makes it seem more normal. And yes, to the dumb-asses who so snidely quipped about gay be contagious, in a sociological way, yes, it absolutely is. If you have a society that suppresses gayness, guess what, you get less. If you have a society that is more open, then you will see more. Why? Because it is thought of as more normal. Those with impulses and curiosity will be more likely to try. I won't even get into the whole, "as a PC liberal, I believe that all cultures are equal and should be celebrated...except the when they disagree with me bullshit. Though, I should. Now, on slashdot, one would hope to find a higher level of discussion, such as, do societies that accept gayness maintain stability in the long term. Are their positive or negative economic consequences. Does it effect marriage and birth rates? These are all worthy questions worthy of exploration, and even fact finding. That would be a productive conversation to be had. This is the mental equivalent of saying, "cool story bro." Be better guys.
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
Yes, it's obvious. You have cited zero facts to refute it, instead dodging the question and presuming yourself correct. Based on nothing more than your own prejudices. So, with no counter argument whatsoever, I declare it obvious.
Why shouldn't Russians choose a Russian cultural policy based on what Russians think is best for Russia? Why should they care what an outsider like you, someone offering zero facts, has to say about their cultural choices? What is the value of your approval? To Russia or to anyone?
You're the one making the claim, you demonstrate it's veracity. And no, "it's obvious" is not a defense, it's merely handwaving. You keep repeating "it's obvious" like it represent anything other than your own homophobia.
What are you afraid of? That Mother Russia may someday have to answer for its mistreatment of minorities? That homosexuality isn't the evil you seem to believe it is?
If you have some actual evidence, cite it. But if you think "it's obvious" will convince anyone of anything, then you're as big a fool as you make yourself appear to be.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
I thought Russia's birthrate problem was mostly due to men drinking themselves to death. Their women don't want to be around guys who are drinking themselves to death, so they prefer to become mail-order brides.
Did anybody in Russia notice that Steve Jobs and Tim Cook are not the same person? I'm afraid even trying to think like a looney, anti-gay zealot, I can't figure out the line of reasoning that led to this decision...
... that the KGB thug in the Kremlin couldn't come up with another stupid notion.
Heh, I'm assuming you're referring to this: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt01...
Dan
All Russians must bring their iPhones to Red Square so they can be thrown into a big pile and burned.
You're the one making the claim, you demonstrate it's veracity. And no, "it's obvious" is not a defense, it's merely handwaving. You keep repeating "it's obvious" like it represent anything other than your own homophobia.
No facts from you again, but you've added an ad hominem. Nice.
What are you afraid of? That Mother Russia may someday have to answer for its mistreatment of minorities? That homosexuality isn't the evil you seem to believe it is?
No one mentioned anything being evil. That's a strawman.
But if you think "it's obvious" will convince anyone of anything, then you're as big a fool as you make yourself appear to be.
I'm not trying to convince, merely explain. You're the one who seems to be trying to convince someone. But all you have to offer is ad hominems and strawman arguments to back up your fact-free, counterintuitive assertions. So it's not very convincing.
that they wanted to make a statement about Apple and couldn't be bothered to come up with a better pretext.
I think the focus of the commentary is the reason, namely the homophobia, which is morally reprehensible, not the taking down of the statue, which is morally neutral. That said, the action accomplishes twin goals for Putin, further ostracizing a scapegoat class and by removing yet another symbol of American technical dominance. By isolating Russia a bit more from the West, and by isolating gays within Russia, Putin effectively furthers his clear goal of being a fascist leader - create fear and distrust of the outside world and of an internal class.
This is interesting. I suggest that you mod this gentlem....cisperson informative. Or else.
How was the memorial for an American businessman consistent with traditional Russian (family) values in the first place? Must be the unscrupulousness or the megalomania, I guess.
Will that not upset the homos? why do they not just replace the website with a steaming turd or a haemorrhoid that way everybody is happy. People these days are just losing the art of courtesy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Aside from being consumers of Apple products, what's the connection between Russia and Steve Jobs? I'm confused as to why they would have it in the first place.
Sounds like Vlad feels that being gay is a choice
Does using a mac make me gay? Can I counteract it by using a Wintel machine to neuter myself?
While Apple is definitely gay, it's pointless to switch, as Windows users have been taking it in the ass from Microsoft for decades.
I think we in the US are very progressive even the conservatives are more progressive then many Countries. How would like to be gay in Iran or some other religious relic country that stones gays to death. Or woman for having a affair. Seriously the gay community could have it a lot worse then not being able to marry.
I don't think some liberals in the US have managed to see to correlation between Hitler trying to wipe out the Jews and Islam trying to wipe out everyone but a Muslim. But in this Country the US we don't always agree with sexual preference, color, political preference, and so many other things. But we don't kill you for having a opposing thought or belief.
Every one of your opinions are being controlled and manipulated by the media industrial complex. In 5 short years we have gone from a universal and accepted hatred of faggots (unreasonable, but fully supported by the media and official institutions) to an absolute adoration of faggots to the point where you are considered a faggot if you do not like men (unreasonable) . On the other hand the religious right wages a war against religious extremists who have guns and believe in family values (don't understand this. They used to support the mujahudeen) The right has gone from saying 'better dead than red' to saying I'd let my wife sleep in Putin's bed. Why. Because the Russian Oligarchs (just like the USAian oligarchs) are major contributors to the USAian media complex. If anything this hatred towards faggots should turn off the left's adoration of Putin and the new world order to the point where they would bother helping the Ukranians. But level of ire needed to create this feeling will never exist because the opinions and ideals of the public are being created and manipulated by the media elite in NY and CA, who are making billions of the situation as it is.
Every opinion that you hold sacred is a product of a billion dollar media complex. Whether you love faggots or love putin, your opinion would be completely different if you were born on a different continent, or at an earlier time. You are not a person, but a feeling to be manipulated, shaped and swayed by the masters.
Someone needs to read Ends and Means by Aldous Huxley. It is all about using science as a means to the end (goal) of imposing sex and violence (erotic and political passions) on everyone.
Truth told. Nerve touched. Downmod. Slashdot!
If you really want to know, and you should want to know, then watch this video from a KGB agent that defected to the US just to explain this issue.
Basically the way it's explained, Russian's don't hate gays, and liberals won't protect them. They just see the gay movement as more of a way to attack the existing power structure. Is Clay Aiken really good for NC, or is he Chicken Little, setup on an issued that is only designed to get Chicken Little elected?
William J Clinton signed into law the defense of (traditional) marriage act in 1996, Barak Obama explicitly claimed he was against gay marriage before he was for it. Mainstream acceptance of gay marriage has come about quite rapidly in the USA. It would be foolish to turn it into a purely political issue when it's not.
Your test for whether something is a choice is idiotic; You could equally assert a "bank robber orientation" and assert that it is provably not a choice by telling people to "try being a bank robber for 1 week". You will get no takers on such a challeng in any crowd of normal people and yet this will NOT prove that bank robbers were "born that way". Any heterosexual man has the same basic physical capabilites as a homosexual man, so he could easily engage in homosexual acts... if he simply decides to reject his moral beliefs. The fact that some people find it impossible to dump their beliefs and engage in an act they hold to be immoral does not in any way indicate that people who DO engage in those acts are "oriented" that way.
I am perfectly capable of eating lobster, but I dislike the flavor so I do not eat it. This does NOT mean that I was born with a "lobsterless orientation", it just means that while I am quite capable of eating lobster, my personal preference is not to. Some people like mustard on their hot dogs and some do not. Such preferences are not physically hard-wired into anybody's genes, and many preferences may change during ones life. Sorry, but the fact that some of us like one thing and others of us like something else is completely meaningless in any discussion of "right" or "wrong" and is entirely unrelated to whether we have an actual choice in the matter.
Face it: There is no "gay gene". The claim that there was or that there might be was a political tactic that was useful for a while in the late 80s. Homosexuality is nothing new; it's been around for thousands of years and is nothing more or less than a rejection of normality and moral traditions. It's no different than a Jewish or Muslim person deciding that he likes the flavor of bacon and deciding to eat lots of bacon and insist that the rules of his former belief system be changed to support his new appetite.
Yes, it's obvious. You have cited zero facts to refute it, instead dodging the question and presuming yourself correct. Based on nothing more than your own prejudices. So, with no counter argument whatsoever, I declare it obvious.
Dunning-Kruger strikes again.
AFAIK, in Russia, Apple products are generally not considered "masculine enough" long before Cook's relevations. For many russians, i-devices are girl-only. (Well, for the same those russians, anything expensive enough is a somehow "gay" when owned by a man or somehow related to prostitution, when owned by a woman... socialism, that is.)
Putin is not an idiot.
Giving Russian population a boogieman and someone to vent their frustrations against reinforces his power.
In Soviet Russia, trampling workers' rights gets you a monument, having a gay friend (?) gets it to be demolished.
It's possible, but not every trait which exists has evolved because it has some evoloutionary advantage.
An alternative is that it's hard to make a brain which reliably finds a member of the opposite sex, especially given that the drives are somewhat indirect. E.g. people mostly hump merely due to feeling randy. It's that which leads to making the next generation. So it's now down to a question of a brain which thinks "I'm randy now i want to stick it in something with this rather incomplete and ambiguous set of attributes". That gets even worse when you include things like secondary sexual characteristics.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
I thought Russia's birthrate problem was mostly due to men drinking themselves to death. Their women don't want to be around guys who are drinking themselves to death, so they prefer to become mail-order brides.
Yes they are looking at a choice between giving up the vodka or blaming the gays .... is anyone surprised at the result?
To elaborate (I'm neither gay, nor gay hater, nor Russian, nor iPhone lover, please spare me and don't try reading between the lines as there is nothing in there, really)
Russia has a law that basically forbids "as Good As You" approach. (that's where word "gay" comes from, to my knowledge)
That is, by claiming being gay is as good as being heterosexual, or that gay sex is as normal as heterosexual sex, you break the law.
The theory of Russian parliament is that such claims are effectively gay propaganda.
Now, Cook not only said that he was gay (which, frankly, could also have been interpreted same way), but also claimed it to be "a gift" from God. This, apparently, breaks the above mentioned law.
You aren't explaining anything - you are providing your opinion, and expecting that to be accepted on face value simply because it's your opinion. If you could back it up with facts, then you can get upset that people ignore it. Until then "it's obvious" is not helping your case.
Maybe they should also destroy all computers in Russia since Turing was a merry man..
WTF are you talking about? Do you believe that Russia doesn't permit marriage to old people, sterile people, and people who don't have sex?
ps How dare Russian people think they can choose who they associate with! Don't you know it's up to the government (aided and abetted by easily brainwashed cretins like those here on Slashdot) to FORCE people to associate with people they don't want to? Whatever next? Freedom of association? Free speech?
"Traditional family values" my arse.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
But in other country sodomy is actually only anal sex. An example is the french dictionary which *solely* describe it as anal coitus. I would not be surprised to elarn that in russia it is the same, unfortunately I cannot check a russian dictionary.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
Russia had a memorial to Steve Jobs?
The Catholic church sure has Russia fucked up the proverbial ass.
After Apple CEO Tim Cook publicly called for sodomy
LOLWUT? I don't remember that. What did he say?
"Go forth and sodomize one another, let the santorum flow freely!"
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
I believe most of us agree that homophobia is rude (to say the least.) But as Steve Jobs wasn't gay, removing the memorial dedicated to him is highly illogical.
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
That's right.
Homeosexuals aren't to be feared, or hated.
Just pitied.
The Russian government while claiming one thing does something completely different? We can't even throw stones in that regard around here either. It's been long known that being openly gay in Russia is very hazardous for your health.
How is this surprising to anybody? Exactly, it's not.
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
And to say that it is pretty damn gaudy/ugly would be an understatement. Probably best it doesn't go back anyway.
Yeah, russian media (rt.com) is not government moderated and you should believe everything they say ...
Russia gays like Tschaikovski have given the world treasures. Few care they are gay.
Tchaikovsky
"Countless people, particularly kids, face fear and abuse every day because of their sexual orientation."
When I was a kid I did not think of being f*ed in the ass, let alone be abused for that. You know what - I did not think about being f*ed either. It was a happy and innocent childhood. What happened to the world?
You failed to see the compliment I was giving...
Many of the smartest people who ever lived are autistic to some degree or another.
I'm simply stating the facts but of course, most will elicit an emotional response instead of a rational one.
What did you expect?
Russia paid off all her foreign debt to the central bankers and told the muslims that she was a Christian country, abide by Russian law or get the hell out.
I am proud of Russia for again doing what is moral and right.
And if Russia is really interested in repopulating its depleted population, it should be targeting vodka and a persistently shitty economy.
According to what can be seen in this new thing YouTube.com , the fastest and most efficient way to stop depleting Russia's population would be to immediately ban any and all forms of driving in the vast extension of the Russian nation, as well as to confiscate all driving licenses expedited within its territory (just to be sure).
Not true. Do you have a TV?
Watch a news report from Afghanistan. There will always be dozens of sheep and goats milling around nervously in the background.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
http://www.amazon.com/Biologic...
"Homosexuality in its myriad forms has been scientifically documented in more than 450 species of mammals, birds, reptiles, insects, and other animals worldwide. Biological Exuberance is the first comprehensive account of the subject, bringing together accurate, accessible, and nonsensationalized information. Drawing upon a rich body of zoological research spanning more than two centuries, Bruce Bagemihl shows that animals engage in all types of nonreproductive sexual behavior. Sexual and gender expression in the animal world displays exuberant variety, including same-sex courtship, pair-bonding, sex, and co-parenting--even instances of lifelong homosexual bonding in species that do not have lifelong heterosexual bonding.
Part 1, "A Polysexual, Polygendered World," begins with a survey of homosexuality, transgender, and nonreproductive heterosexuality in animals and then delves into the broader implications of these findings, including a valuable perspective on human diversity. Bagemihl also examines the hidden assumptions behind the way biologists look at natural systems and suggests a fresh perspective based on the synthesis of contemporary scientific insights with traditional knowledge from indigenous cultures.
Part 2, "A Wondrous Bestiary," profiles more than 190 species in which scientific observers have noted homosexual or transgender behavior. Each profile is a verbal and visual "snapshot" of one or more closely related bird or mammal species, containing all the documentation required to support the author's often controversial conclusions.
Lavishly illustrated and meticulously researched, filled with fascinating facts and astonishing descriptions of animal behavior, Biological Exuberance is a landmark book that will change forever how we look at nature."
Basically, for decades, even centuries, wildlife biologists have been making assumptions about the sexes of animals based on their interactions -- either than or consciously suppressing the data that shows homosexuality in the wild.
Of course, just because animals do something has never been a conclusive argument for why humans should do it, because humans are moral beings and make choices (a point my Ecology&Evolution Prof. Larry Slobodkin made in a course of philosophy and ecology/evolution). But love is so often rare and fleeting in this life, why go out of our way to make it more difficult for some people? Was the world really better off because of what was done to Alan Turing after he helped Britain survive WWII?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A...
See also for references to some studies:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B...
More discussion (which mentions the page you site):
"Is Sexual Orientation Determined at Birth?"
http://borngay.procon.org/view...
And: ... Vasey speculates that part of the reason the fa'afafine are more attentive to their nephews and nieces is their acceptance in Samoan culture compared to gay men in the West and Japan ("You can't help your kin if they've rejected you"). But he also believes th
http://www.bbc.com/news/magazi...
"Paul Vasey's research in Samoa has focused on a theory called kin selection or the "helper in the nest" hypothesis. The idea is that gay people compensate for their lack of children by promoting the reproductive fitness of brothers or sisters, contributing money or performing other uncle-like activities such as babysitting or tutoring. Some of the gay person's genetic code is shared with nieces and nephews and so, the theory goes, the genes which code for sexual orientation still get passed down.
A 21st century issue: the irony of technologies of abundance in the hands of those still thinking in terms of scarcity.
Well that was an amazingly detailed post. Thank you. If I had mod points and could use them, you'd get them.
Overall, after reading all of that along with what you yourself have said, it seems that you are saying the assertion that it's not a choice is baseless, but regardless of whether it's a choice or not, the more important issue is our acceptance of homosexuals.
I agree with that. I'm personally of the mind that homosexuality is wrong (that's my personal moral choice), but that they should be treated no differently than the rest of humanity. I'm sure everyone has lied at some point in their life. I don't see it differently. I'm also pro same sex marriage interestingly due to the financial considerations.
Overall, I'm pro freedom-to-do-as-we-wish as long as people are taught the responsibility that goes along with such things. i.e. abortion, guns, same sex marriage, etc.
i.e. I don't think it's right that people do it, but I don't think they should be treated as they are for what they do.
"The hatred was palpable."
http://www.salon.com/2001/01/21/protests_8/
"the popular vote is an unconcept"
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2008-06-04.html
Does the above comment say the equivalent of "little girls just want to be raped"? That's what it looks like to me. And no one challenges it for over two days. Nor has it been modded down. It really doesn't make the discussion of so-called "gay rights" look all that healthy.