Information = good; Micromanagement = bad.
We should not confuse the two. Networked combat units are here to stay and only getting more information centric. Speed and accuracy is most everything in combat. Computers are good for both. We should keep the data, and throw away bad leaders.
BTW: a good book on army transformation, information warefare, with some conversation about future leaders is "Transformation Under Fire".
Hardcover: 320 pages
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Wrong. I've been to Basic Combat Training, spend 4 years as enlisted man in combat units and then 12 years as an officer including being a training officer and temporary commander of a Basic Training unit. We don't weed out critical thinking. We harden people up, teach them to follow orders, and to fill in the gaps and get over the caveats.
What we teach them about following orders is, there are times for questions and there are times when you have to just do it; be intelligent about figuring out which one is which.
I'd have expected him to have Oddjob take care of the design team...
Their site is a mess, always has been, Not sure what this has to do with VISTA or XP though. No one has ever complained to me that VISTA has interface/usability issues. That START BAR is pretty dang simple. Now they have complained that it is a small memory hog below 1gb but that may not be the same thing or it might. You tell me.
However, I do think people (users, not us of course) are scared of Windows. Spin control has been less than zero at MSFT. Whereas those MAc commercials are pretty cool.
I'd like to see this same test measured over performance (mem over load time) - that would tell us something interesting. The working set numbers are somewhat arbitrary, that is the allocation scheme they may have been "optimized" by the dev team in some way. The fact Safari isn't capping it's own usable makes me want to see why that is.
Mark,
Thanks for that link. You have no doubt the best signature block in the universe.
Question: Have you tested Linux, Solaris, and Windows on commodity clusters? That's what we do, and that's what our results are based on. Further our results are heavily skewed by JDK quality. What is your software written in?
Thanks,
Sal
"There is a difference between super computing and HPC."
"Only in semantics and some specialized cases. The terms are nearly identical in usage."
No, not exactly. Super computing relates to HPC on super computer platforms. HPC, typically can refer to that or to grids and distributed systems, that is, Clusters. However, if you say "HPC" to someone in the space they are going to think grids and clusters.
"And your statements about the kernel scaling fail to take into account things like Infiniband, parallel filesystems, and the fact that Linux is extremely stable once you get a proper configuration.."
Again, not exactly. First, I didn't say Linux was unstable. I said Solaris was very stable.
Secondly, I did take those things into account. I assumed that they were all optimized, otherwise you'd never get the kernel up to the top end in the first place. BTW: To be clear, if a filesystem is involved whatever you are talking about is orders slower than what I am talking about. My comments were aimed directly at the kernel. Note: You can buy or install real-time kernels for Linux (Suse for instance). However, they come with limitations as well.
"Most Sun clusters are sold w/ Linux" - Yes they are. Sun sells hardware, not operating systems, so they are cool with this. However, I never said Sun had market share in OS. I said the opposite in fact. I said they were asleep at the wheel. If they wake up... well, that's another story. My comments, to be clear, are this: Linux isn't beating Solaris at this game because it is better at the job. Further it wasn't a swipe at Linux, but posative comments for Solaris.
"Oh, and I almost fell off my chair when you said Windows provided the highest throughput under a given load w/ a given hardware set. Thanks, I needed that. Now, tell me, what would those two variables be? System.exe and a single CPU Xeon"
So HPC is all we do. We have our software benchmarked under Solaris 9, 10; Windows Server (not cluster server), and Suse and Redhat. We have both SPARC and INTEL benchmarks as appropriate. For Linux vs Windows, we used 4 dual-slot, quad-core x32 HP boxes with 32gb of ram each. This is a common rig for index generation, trade reconciliation, and monte carlo sims. This is our benchmark rig.
We've configured rigs with over 1000 dual-slot, dual-core blades but these have always been Linux. Linux is the de facto standard in the space as you said.
There is a difference between super computing and HPC.
Up till now Linux has had little to compete with in scaled out HPC rigs. Allot of that has to do with node pricing and the fact that Sun has been asleep at the wheel (no pun intended - if know SunOs you should be laughing).
However, priced right this and Solaris are a real competative threat for Linux. Linux is not a great platform for HPC. The kernel doesn't scale to extreme levels (total througput pegs early) and Tx latencey gets pretty wide at the top end. You have to over-scale to flatten the latencey curve and this causes other problems that can affect throughput like locality of data. Solaris is a great platform because it provides low latency spread, good througput and solid reliability. Windows (believe it or not) provides the highest total throughput under a given load with a given hardware set but it's latencey is not as good as Solaris.
Before we get too far down the road of Corporate Corruption in science, just note that this AXE swings in both directions. You also have an element in science that is equally "corrupt", on the opposite side.
Scientists have not been above untruth in the past for reasons not associated with cash. For instance, the anti-weapons lobby has just as many wackos working for it as the defense companies do. How many times have we heard, "You'll never intercept a ballistic missle with a missile"? Yet the US Navy has a near perfect record with missiles under the ICBM range, and the AF is about to test in that range (greater velocity and apogee makes it harder, if you need to know). Interesting to hear a scientist say "It'll never happen". Interesting attitude for a scientist...
What about Nuclear Winter? Perhaps it is a possibility. However, how many people know that Carl Sagan could not get his initial model to work until he turned off the Sun? If you go to Wikipedia, this is not mentioned. Yet it was the rage when the information got leaked. This is the guy who wrote Cosmos, Billions and Billions and all that. He eventually got a working model (I'm not qualified to test that of course) but he was selling this as an absolute truth long before he did.
Please do not associate money and corruption as an absolute AND don't assume that money is required for corruption (or untruth).
MI5 style organization, run by the Executive, oversite by Legislature, warrants issued by in-Org Judges, clear rules on collection, disclosure, and retention - I think that is a Constitutionally Compatible solution that even Jefferson would have not liked, but gone for.
I think partisan in-fighting will keep us from getting here, and as long as that happens, the President will do what he has to do to protect the country, or we can all pay the price for not doing so.
I don't have a Mac or any Apple device. I use Windows, Linux, and Solaris on a daily basis, but my choice for base OS on my notebooks is Windows. I run Linux and Open Solaris in VMs.
In other words, OS X is a diametrically opposite alternative to Linux - Only to me and you(and many people on/.), because users, average users, make no distinction between closed source and open source, locked down(ish) and not locked down, big or small. They just look at a device and answer any number of these questions 1) can I afford it, 2) is it cool/hip (or maybe not for anti-trenders), 3) does it do what I want, 4) can I use it.
These new Linux devices do not, for these users, add anything new to these equations. If XP or OS X alternatives exists, they will buy them.
Without a doubt these machines will run XP, maybe VISTA, and also OSX if it is available. Beyond early adopters, everyday users are not going to run Linux on these things anymore than on their desktops. The clear commercial trend is more and more devices running Windows and Apple product lines not less. I'd bet LINUX runs on more device types than Windows and Apple together, but not total devices in use by consumers with an interface. People want what they know and what the TV pushes them.
I agree but I think you weren't complete enough in your response. In many cases the US turns out more engineers and scientists per capita than the numbers suggest (India, for instance, includes a huge number of jobs we do not class as engineers in the engineering numbers). Secondly, most foreign schools value 'book learning' vs experience, and valuing test scores vs true knowledge is misleading in regards to capability to deliver (the Chinese actually admit to this and consider it a strategic liability). US Engineers despite their supposed problems are highly competative world-wide and this (the US) is where people come to get their degrees. Case in point: Over the last ~10 years I have bounced maybe as many as two dozen IIT (India Institute of Technology, their MIT) graduates from interviews for not being able to do much more than regurgitate specs. I never met an MIT grad I didn't like.
This is a reasonable warning that would be applied as is to any other app.
Apple leaving this unpatched is feeding fuel to fire, that started with Quicktime vulnerabilities and the sudden uptick of Mac vulnerabilities over the last few years, that Apple is no more serious or maybe capable about security than any other company.
If you read the entire piece, that is what he said in answer ANOTHER question, but when asked directly-
What was this idea then that got talked about in terms of a kind of minimum kernel?
Sinofsky: Well, why don't we stick at a higher level today, because I think that I don't want to really dive into the implementation details today.
It's still out there.
The Patriot Act isn't center mass of the issue. Some of it has to do with protectionism. Some of it has to do with national security. You don't want your economy's core processes and data running on foreign networks. Pulling the plug in a foreign jurisdiction, yanking a few undersea cables, knocking down a comsat are all real threats.
Onshore resources are also threatened but less so, and, at least theoretically, repaired faster - though that may be years.
Lack of privacy is a BS issue WITH REGARD TO THE PATRIOT ACT SPECIFICALLY. You put your citizen's data on foreign systems, the other guy doesn't need a Patriot Act to take it. There are writs & warrants & gum wrappers in every country.
So it'll run Windows apps (some) but just not on your Windows compatible hardware? Please.
Novell and Red Hat do recognized critical devices on any of my Dell, Levono, or Alienware notebooks. Getting to choose my OS but having to give up my choice of hardware is unacceptible.
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Information = good; Micromanagement = bad. We should not confuse the two. Networked combat units are here to stay and only getting more information centric. Speed and accuracy is most everything in combat. Computers are good for both. We should keep the data, and throw away bad leaders. BTW: a good book on army transformation, information warefare, with some conversation about future leaders is "Transformation Under Fire". Hardcover: 320 pages Publisher: Praeger Publishers (September 30, 2003) Language: English ISBN-10: 0275981924 ISBN-13: 978-0275981921 Product Dimensions: 9.7 x 6.1 x 1.1 inches Shipping Weight: 1.4 pounds (View shipping rates and policies) Average Customer Review: 8 Reviews 5 star: (7) 4 star: (1) 3 star: (0) 2 star: (0) 1 star: (0)
Wrong. I've been to Basic Combat Training, spend 4 years as enlisted man in combat units and then 12 years as an officer including being a training officer and temporary commander of a Basic Training unit. We don't weed out critical thinking. We harden people up, teach them to follow orders, and to fill in the gaps and get over the caveats.
What we teach them about following orders is, there are times for questions and there are times when you have to just do it; be intelligent about figuring out which one is which.
I'd have expected him to have Oddjob take care of the design team ...
Their site is a mess, always has been, Not sure what this has to do with VISTA or XP though. No one has ever complained to me that VISTA has interface/usability issues. That START BAR is pretty dang simple. Now they have complained that it is a small memory hog below 1gb but that may not be the same thing or it might. You tell me.
However, I do think people (users, not us of course) are scared of Windows. Spin control has been less than zero at MSFT. Whereas those MAc commercials are pretty cool.
I'd like to see this same test measured over performance (mem over load time) - that would tell us something interesting. The working set numbers are somewhat arbitrary, that is the allocation scheme they may have been "optimized" by the dev team in some way. The fact Safari isn't capping it's own usable makes me want to see why that is.
Mark, Thanks for that link. You have no doubt the best signature block in the universe. Question: Have you tested Linux, Solaris, and Windows on commodity clusters? That's what we do, and that's what our results are based on. Further our results are heavily skewed by JDK quality. What is your software written in? Thanks, Sal
"There is a difference between super computing and HPC." "Only in semantics and some specialized cases. The terms are nearly identical in usage."
... well, that's another story. My comments, to be clear, are this: Linux isn't beating Solaris at this game because it is better at the job. Further it wasn't a swipe at Linux, but posative comments for Solaris.
No, not exactly. Super computing relates to HPC on super computer platforms. HPC, typically can refer to that or to grids and distributed systems, that is, Clusters. However, if you say "HPC" to someone in the space they are going to think grids and clusters.
"And your statements about the kernel scaling fail to take into account things like Infiniband, parallel filesystems, and the fact that Linux is extremely stable once you get a proper configuration.."
Again, not exactly. First, I didn't say Linux was unstable. I said Solaris was very stable. Secondly, I did take those things into account. I assumed that they were all optimized, otherwise you'd never get the kernel up to the top end in the first place. BTW: To be clear, if a filesystem is involved whatever you are talking about is orders slower than what I am talking about. My comments were aimed directly at the kernel. Note: You can buy or install real-time kernels for Linux (Suse for instance). However, they come with limitations as well.
"Most Sun clusters are sold w/ Linux" - Yes they are. Sun sells hardware, not operating systems, so they are cool with this. However, I never said Sun had market share in OS. I said the opposite in fact. I said they were asleep at the wheel. If they wake up
"Oh, and I almost fell off my chair when you said Windows provided the highest throughput under a given load w/ a given hardware set. Thanks, I needed that. Now, tell me, what would those two variables be? System.exe and a single CPU Xeon"
So HPC is all we do. We have our software benchmarked under Solaris 9, 10; Windows Server (not cluster server), and Suse and Redhat. We have both SPARC and INTEL benchmarks as appropriate. For Linux vs Windows, we used 4 dual-slot, quad-core x32 HP boxes with 32gb of ram each. This is a common rig for index generation, trade reconciliation, and monte carlo sims. This is our benchmark rig.
We've configured rigs with over 1000 dual-slot, dual-core blades but these have always been Linux. Linux is the de facto standard in the space as you said.
Who needs the competition? Not me, not India.
There is a difference between super computing and HPC. Up till now Linux has had little to compete with in scaled out HPC rigs. Allot of that has to do with node pricing and the fact that Sun has been asleep at the wheel (no pun intended - if know SunOs you should be laughing). However, priced right this and Solaris are a real competative threat for Linux. Linux is not a great platform for HPC. The kernel doesn't scale to extreme levels (total througput pegs early) and Tx latencey gets pretty wide at the top end. You have to over-scale to flatten the latencey curve and this causes other problems that can affect throughput like locality of data. Solaris is a great platform because it provides low latency spread, good througput and solid reliability. Windows (believe it or not) provides the highest total throughput under a given load with a given hardware set but it's latencey is not as good as Solaris.
Before we get too far down the road of Corporate Corruption in science, just note that this AXE swings in both directions. You also have an element in science that is equally "corrupt", on the opposite side.
Scientists have not been above untruth in the past for reasons not associated with cash. For instance, the anti-weapons lobby has just as many wackos working for it as the defense companies do. How many times have we heard, "You'll never intercept a ballistic missle with a missile"? Yet the US Navy has a near perfect record with missiles under the ICBM range, and the AF is about to test in that range (greater velocity and apogee makes it harder, if you need to know). Interesting to hear a scientist say "It'll never happen". Interesting attitude for a scientist ...
What about Nuclear Winter? Perhaps it is a possibility. However, how many people know that Carl Sagan could not get his initial model to work until he turned off the Sun? If you go to Wikipedia, this is not mentioned. Yet it was the rage when the information got leaked. This is the guy who wrote Cosmos, Billions and Billions and all that. He eventually got a working model (I'm not qualified to test that of course) but he was selling this as an absolute truth long before he did.
Please do not associate money and corruption as an absolute AND don't assume that money is required for corruption (or untruth).
The penalties will likely run concurrently. Sequential time is reserved for serious felonies.
50% terrorists, 50% the people that enable them.
MI5 style organization, run by the Executive, oversite by Legislature, warrants issued by in-Org Judges, clear rules on collection, disclosure, and retention - I think that is a Constitutionally Compatible solution that even Jefferson would have not liked, but gone for. I think partisan in-fighting will keep us from getting here, and as long as that happens, the President will do what he has to do to protect the country, or we can all pay the price for not doing so.
I don't have a Mac or any Apple device. I use Windows, Linux, and Solaris on a daily basis, but my choice for base OS on my notebooks is Windows. I run Linux and Open Solaris in VMs.
/.), because users, average users, make no distinction between closed source and open source, locked down(ish) and not locked down, big or small. They just look at a device and answer any number of these questions 1) can I afford it, 2) is it cool/hip (or maybe not for anti-trenders), 3) does it do what I want, 4) can I use it.
These new Linux devices do not, for these users, add anything new to these equations. If XP or OS X alternatives exists, they will buy them.
In other words, OS X is a diametrically opposite alternative to Linux - Only to me and you(and many people on
Apparentley Vista has taken MSFT down alright, down to the bank.
Without a doubt these machines will run XP, maybe VISTA, and also OSX if it is available. Beyond early adopters, everyday users are not going to run Linux on these things anymore than on their desktops. The clear commercial trend is more and more devices running Windows and Apple product lines not less. I'd bet LINUX runs on more device types than Windows and Apple together, but not total devices in use by consumers with an interface. People want what they know and what the TV pushes them.
Awesome, my first 0.
... as much as the ones for Windows?
... why are we still using little shiny discs to hold digitial data?
I agree but I think you weren't complete enough in your response. In many cases the US turns out more engineers and scientists per capita than the numbers suggest (India, for instance, includes a huge number of jobs we do not class as engineers in the engineering numbers). Secondly, most foreign schools value 'book learning' vs experience, and valuing test scores vs true knowledge is misleading in regards to capability to deliver (the Chinese actually admit to this and consider it a strategic liability). US Engineers despite their supposed problems are highly competative world-wide and this (the US) is where people come to get their degrees. Case in point: Over the last ~10 years I have bounced maybe as many as two dozen IIT (India Institute of Technology, their MIT) graduates from interviews for not being able to do much more than regurgitate specs. I never met an MIT grad I didn't like.
This is a reasonable warning that would be applied as is to any other app. Apple leaving this unpatched is feeding fuel to fire, that started with Quicktime vulnerabilities and the sudden uptick of Mac vulnerabilities over the last few years, that Apple is no more serious or maybe capable about security than any other company.
If you read the entire piece, that is what he said in answer ANOTHER question, but when asked directly- What was this idea then that got talked about in terms of a kind of minimum kernel? Sinofsky: Well, why don't we stick at a higher level today, because I think that I don't want to really dive into the implementation details today. It's still out there.
The Patriot Act isn't center mass of the issue. Some of it has to do with protectionism. Some of it has to do with national security. You don't want your economy's core processes and data running on foreign networks. Pulling the plug in a foreign jurisdiction, yanking a few undersea cables, knocking down a comsat are all real threats. Onshore resources are also threatened but less so, and, at least theoretically, repaired faster - though that may be years. Lack of privacy is a BS issue WITH REGARD TO THE PATRIOT ACT SPECIFICALLY. You put your citizen's data on foreign systems, the other guy doesn't need a Patriot Act to take it. There are writs & warrants & gum wrappers in every country.
Works for me. Disclaimer: I'm running SUSE in a VMWare VISTA hosted VM, but I doubt that matters.
So it'll run Windows apps (some) but just not on your Windows compatible hardware? Please. Novell and Red Hat do recognized critical devices on any of my Dell, Levono, or Alienware notebooks. Getting to choose my OS but having to give up my choice of hardware is unacceptible.
I think we should cut and paste the entire post and history from Slashdot and attach it to the Wikipedia entry on "Wikipedia" and see what happens.