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The Tzero does not have a 100 mile range. It's closer to 300 miles. They have switched to lithium batteries. It is predicted that mass-produced automotive lithium-sulfur batteries could have ranges of well over 400 miles. That's more than any dino-juice burners get, and the performance is better.

Electric cars don't NEED to be ugly, slow and have tiny ranges. Take the tZero for instance, 100 mile range, top speed of ~100 mph, 0-60 in 4 seconds; handily beating Ferraris and Porsches in an 1/8 mile. and it's only moderately hideous looking! The price, however, is entirely hideous.

The return trip was equally uneventful. We drove faster, 65-75 mph, since we had so much reserve range on the outbound leg, but we hit bad traffic coming out of Barstow and that shot our trip average speed. Back in San Dimas with about 10 % of charge left we could still pull 350 A on a hard accel.

Is that the one that's basically a two-seat motorcycle? Hate to get in a wreck in one of those. Hate to have to pick somebody up from the airport in one of those. Is it a neat vehicle? Absolutely. Is it going to replace a Subaru station wagon (which is my benchmark family utility vehicle)? No.

Their web site says that they will begin delivering vehicles in 2002. That does not fill me with confidence.

Their web site also says that they get 100 miles at freeway speeds. So either you have information they don't want to share, or you are misinformed.

Re: 10k mile services, I don't know what kind of car YOU drive, but I kept my Miata running for 50,000 miles by changing the oil regularly and putting gas in it. I threw tires and brake pads at it. It did finally die (due to a manufacturing defect, unfortunately), but the servicing of that car was pretty trivial.

The fact that the power density of electric systems is so horrible forces a lot of engineering constraints on the vehicle design that makes for vehicles that are good at one or two things, and really bad at a lot of others. In other words, "Pure electric power is good for some usage patterns. It is vastly bad for many other usage patterns. It is NOT a panacea."

By the way: What's the crashworthiness of that battery stack like?

"Limited range: The GOOD EVs I've seen can go about 100 miles per charge."
Bollocks.You havent paid attention.
http://www.acpropulsion.com/SEMAtrip2003.htm
"The tzero never faltered and arrived in Las Vegas, 245 miles from AC Propulsion headquarters in San Dimas, with at least 40 miles of reserve range."

"Recharge time: HOURS..." Bollocks. The tzero's Reductive charging system can plug in to any grounded 100 to 240V socket. The current draw from the line can be set by the user. With a 100-Amp 240-Volt connection, the tzero can fully charge in about an hour.

"Recharge locations: Limited."
Bollocks
"The tzero's Li-Ion battery and high energy efficiency got us to Las Vegas. Its onboard, plug-in-anywhere charger kept us going. We stayed with friends right in town, and upon arrival plugged into the outlet for their electric clothes dryer, had dinner, talked and went to bed. In the morning the tzero was fully charged. That's the great thing about electricity, it's already available just about anywhere."

For more, check out the details of Challenge Bibendums results, like i already recommended.

The technology is here, the only problem is cost.

The technology is here, the only problem is cost.

The technology is here, the only problem is cost.

Given that AC Propulsion's T-zero has a 300 mile cruising range using LiIon batteries, I'd say we already have as good a battery technology as we need to make a viable electric car today.
AC Propulsion

Also I hope that cities start being designed to be anti-car, meaning they are designed to be accessed on foot or by public transit systems. If you've ever been to Singapore you know what I'm talking about.

---------
Create a wireless web site

How about one that looks like this?

Something else you may find interesting...

It's certainly not ideal, but at least it really exists and isn't an idea or vaporware.

I found THIS just recently.

If you need to take your car on a long trip, or if you just want to have a backup (just-in-case) you can buy one of these trailers and run your electric car on unleaded.

I find it quite unfortunate that you only get about 30-40 MPG with it, but that's still as good as 99% of small-cars, plus you will be using electricity nearly all the time, so burning 1 gallon once in a while still turns out to be much better than the alternative.

There is already an electric "race car" - The Tzero from AC Propulsion, does 0-60mph in 4.7 seconds. Go to www.acpropulsion.com and read up on it, it's really a great piece of work. 200hp electric motor.

The original version used Lead Acid batteries but they have one now using Lithium Ion. The car can cruise for 300 miles on a single charge. That, to me is a real winner.

Lengthy (overnight) charge times seem less of an issue now; I get about 300 miles on a tank of gas in my current car and have to gas up every week or so. With a Tzero I could recharge whenever convenient, and not really worry about it, because *somewhere* within the span of a week I'm sure to get 8-12 hours of charge time.

I think there's a lot to be said for centralized emission controls (in an electrical power plant) versus millions of questionably-maintained controls in IC engines. However, there are also plenty of interesting technologies for IC engines that are worth looking into, like the Coates Spherical Rotary Valve Engine or the Roton Rotary Valve Engine. These new technologies hold a lot of promise for improving the efficiency and cleanliness of IC engines.

And let's not forget the venerable Wankel Rotary Engine and all the potential it has to offer.

But personally, I'm getting on the waiting list for a Tzero. The fact that their *entire car's* power to weight ratio is greater than *just the battery system* in the Honda electric vehicle says plenty, to me. These guys have their technology in order, now all they need is some investors to dump enough cash on them to go mass production.

Electric cars can definately move quick, check out NEDRA, the National Electric Drag Race Association. Also, there's the increasingly popular Tzero from AC Propulsion that has 100+ mile range, 0-60 in 4.1s, and turns the 1/4 mile in 13.2. And it's street legal.

the tzero isn't ugly in my opinion, it's awsome. I want one.

This being slashdot, I expect the usual nonsense about "But electric cars just get energy from gas-burning power plants . . ." will start up immediately.

Here are some facts that I don't think anyone disputes. Absorb these, and then continue with the ranting.

Fact 1: Electric motors are more efficient than internal combustion engines. Run a gas engine at X watts for 20 minutes. Run an electric motor at X watts for 20 minutes. Afterwards, the gas engine will be hotter than the electric motor. Yes, it depends on the load, blah, blah, blah, but in the loads typically encountered by cars, the internal combustion engine loses.

Fact 2: The energy density of batteries has quadrupled in the last 10 years, mostly pushed by laptop and cellphone battery technology. Lead acid batteries have about 35 Wh/kg, while different variants of lithium batteries are in the range of 100 Wh/kg to 150 Wh/kg. Note that the cost of a lithium pack is substantially higher than that of a lead acid pack of the same capacity.

But don't worry, zealots! There are still lots of other things to debate! Does every family of four really need TWO cars with more than 100 mile range? Was Carl Pope of the Sierra Club being blackmailed when he endorsed hybrid SUV's in the latest issue of Green Car Journal? Would you cry if someone gave you a lithium-ion-powered Tzero for Christmas or other nugatory tradition? Can putting a 500 W solar panel on a car that consumes 15 kW at highway speeds make any difference? Will people ever stop suggesting that putting generators on the wheels of electric cars is a good idea? Am I really as much of a tool as I seem?

Have at it, boys!

My two biggest gripes are still the weight and the charge time-- not so much the capacity.

I don't know about you, but when I stop, 15 minutes isn't a big penalty. If I could get 180 miles of range on the motor into the batteries at the same time I put 5 gallons into the tank, 15 minutes would be a very reasonable stop. It takes me that long to set up the pump, pee, check the snacks and pay. If I could snag a charge at highway rest areas and restaurants, I'd be even better off.

How long is the charge cycle for a car-sized Li-ion battery? If I drive to chicago, and have to stop 3 times on the 180-mile trip, that's no big deal.

And what does 1000lbs. of extra weight do to the performance and efficiency of a vehicle?

If we get better batteries, i'm all for it. Anything that gets us off of systems fixed to one energy source.

Hybrids are far and away the most practical solution available now, but fail to wean us off gasoline.

Imagine cutting your gasoline consumption by 2/3, with no sacrifices. It's doable, hell, it's off the shelf. We should demand that it be done.

Generator Trailer

The cool thing about the trailer is that the stearing is sync'd with the car. So when you back up, the whole unit moves together. None of the "turn the wheel the opposite way" to back up.

Cool video:
See the trailer steering system in action in this video clip (416 Kb)

Generator Trailer

The cool thing about the trailer is that the stearing is sync'd with the car. So when you back up, the whole unit moves together. None of the "turn the wheel the opposite way" to back up.

Cool video:
See the trailer steering system in action in this video clip (416 Kb)

Check out the manufacturer's website

The car has a speed limiter to keep it under 90 mph.

They don't say what the car weighs. No air conditioning, the windows don't go up & down, they must be removed like a T-top.

Reserve your place in line with a $2,000 deposit.

The top speed of the t-zero is actually 100 mph. It is in big bold lettering on the home page.

Go and watch this [quicktime].

Go and watch this [quicktime].

Humm, seems to me that the root of the problem is that the general public, business, and industry is dependant on "the grid"(like duh). What I mean is each of us is dependant on power generation and delivery systems which are out of our individule control.(ok, so)...

Please keep in mind that had we spoke in person you would not have had the opportunity to observe my poor spelling, it's my message and not my grammer that you aught pay attention to.

To demonstrate, smaller co-op type wind farms would place more of the power generation in closer proximity to the loads. Reducing vulnerability to falures at the generation sources and transmission grid(s). They would provide jobs in construction and maintainance, and stabalize prices for power from a near-constant, free, renewable, and clean source.

Rather than investing in more Dirty Coal fireing plants that rob us all of our non-renewable natural resources; Instead of pushing the envelope with contriversal nuclear power, how about simply start utilizing our existing fision reactor, The Sun, in more direct methods? Such as Solar, which is about as direct as you can get at ~20% effeciency. Wind is probably the best solution powered near-directly by the sun aswell. Hydro-electric is already being extensively utilized, relying on the evaporative powers of the sun to circulate water to the highest peaks. If you think about it, coal and oil resources are also powered by the sun, which grew the plants that eventually turned into "fosil"-fuels. I wonder just how effecient this very-non-direct use of sunlight is. My guess, about 0.02% or less. Even Solar power starts to look a whole lot better put this way.

Or how about smarter tansportation that would actually Help correct this and many other problems that we are currently facing (Oil dependency, pollution, corruption, wars)... This T-Zero and other Electric Vehicles could aid grid overloading, utilize nightly power over-production provide clean reliable and FUN daily transportation producing zero emmissions and using zero oil. period. Check out their White Papers. and What's New area (especially the ev-based vehicle-to-grid demonstration project)! I know it's a little pricy, how about the GM EV1 with an MSRP of less than $40K, in low volume production (Oh ya, if it had ever been for sale). There we go, More Jobs again... And Imagin how the cost would come down if we built 100,000 of them here at home.

And for all of you that are going to diss on electric cars, keep in mind that you know nothing about them. They have power and range, and are very effecient at 80% to 90% from the outlet. Batteries are recyclable and safe.

Hybrids are not Electric cars. Gas cars are brute force machines, their ICE's only push, Friction breaks slow them down. Hybrids are the "Missing Links". They Push just the same, but are capable of "Recycling Kinetic Energy", however all power originates from the gassoline. EV's are the Answer, The Push even harder, Regenerate Better, use about 1/4 the energy, and produce Zero Emissions. Infinite MPG.

To Bring this full circle, I can make my own electricity, and more of us should. It shines down on us each day and blows above our homes durring each of our lifetimes. Build something usefull to our children, not more problems.

L8r
Ryan

• Starve a terrorist, drive an electric vehicle.
• I love plugging in! Do you like pumping gas?
• Would you drive your car if the exhaust came out of the steering wheel?
• Sorry about your "GAS PROBLEM".
• It's not Electric if you Can't Plug It In.

Humm, seems to me that the root of the problem is that the general public, business, and industry is dependant on "the grid"(like duh). What I mean is each of us is dependant on power generation and delivery systems which are out of our individule control.(ok, so)...

Please keep in mind that had we spoke in person you would not have had the opportunity to observe my poor spelling, it's my message and not my grammer that you aught pay attention to.

To demonstrate, smaller co-op type wind farms would place more of the power generation in closer proximity to the loads. Reducing vulnerability to falures at the generation sources and transmission grid(s). They would provide jobs in construction and maintainance, and stabalize prices for power from a near-constant, free, renewable, and clean source.

Rather than investing in more Dirty Coal fireing plants that rob us all of our non-renewable natural resources; Instead of pushing the envelope with contriversal nuclear power, how about simply start utilizing our existing fision reactor, The Sun, in more direct methods? Such as Solar, which is about as direct as you can get at ~20% effeciency. Wind is probably the best solution powered near-directly by the sun aswell. Hydro-electric is already being extensively utilized, relying on the evaporative powers of the sun to circulate water to the highest peaks. If you think about it, coal and oil resources are also powered by the sun, which grew the plants that eventually turned into "fosil"-fuels. I wonder just how effecient this very-non-direct use of sunlight is. My guess, about 0.02% or less. Even Solar power starts to look a whole lot better put this way.

Or how about smarter tansportation that would actually Help correct this and many other problems that we are currently facing (Oil dependency, pollution, corruption, wars)... This T-Zero and other Electric Vehicles could aid grid overloading, utilize nightly power over-production provide clean reliable and FUN daily transportation producing zero emmissions and using zero oil. period. Check out their White Papers. and What's New area (especially the ev-based vehicle-to-grid demonstration project)! I know it's a little pricy, how about the GM EV1 with an MSRP of less than $40K, in low volume production (Oh ya, if it had ever been for sale). There we go, More Jobs again... And Imagin how the cost would come down if we built 100,000 of them here at home.

And for all of you that are going to diss on electric cars, keep in mind that you know nothing about them. They have power and range, and are very effecient at 80% to 90% from the outlet. Batteries are recyclable and safe.

Hybrids are not Electric cars. Gas cars are brute force machines, their ICE's only push, Friction breaks slow them down. Hybrids are the "Missing Links". They Push just the same, but are capable of "Recycling Kinetic Energy", however all power originates from the gassoline. EV's are the Answer, The Push even harder, Regenerate Better, use about 1/4 the energy, and produce Zero Emissions. Infinite MPG.

To Bring this full circle, I can make my own electricity, and more of us should. It shines down on us each day and blows above our homes durring each of our lifetimes. Build something usefull to our children, not more problems.

L8r
Ryan

• Starve a terrorist, drive an electric vehicle.
• I love plugging in! Do you like pumping gas?
• Would you drive your car if the exhaust came out of the steering wheel?
• Sorry about your "GAS PROBLEM".
• It's not Electric if you Can't Plug It In.

Humm, seems to me that the root of the problem is that the general public, business, and industry is dependant on "the grid"(like duh). What I mean is each of us is dependant on power generation and delivery systems which are out of our individule control.(ok, so)...

Please keep in mind that had we spoke in person you would not have had the opportunity to observe my poor spelling, it's my message and not my grammer that you aught pay attention to.

To demonstrate, smaller co-op type wind farms would place more of the power generation in closer proximity to the loads. Reducing vulnerability to falures at the generation sources and transmission grid(s). They would provide jobs in construction and maintainance, and stabalize prices for power from a near-constant, free, renewable, and clean source.

Rather than investing in more Dirty Coal fireing plants that rob us all of our non-renewable natural resources; Instead of pushing the envelope with contriversal nuclear power, how about simply start utilizing our existing fision reactor, The Sun, in more direct methods? Such as Solar, which is about as direct as you can get at ~20% effeciency. Wind is probably the best solution powered near-directly by the sun aswell. Hydro-electric is already being extensively utilized, relying on the evaporative powers of the sun to circulate water to the highest peaks. If you think about it, coal and oil resources are also powered by the sun, which grew the plants that eventually turned into "fosil"-fuels. I wonder just how effecient this very-non-direct use of sunlight is. My guess, about 0.02% or less. Even Solar power starts to look a whole lot better put this way.

Or how about smarter tansportation that would actually Help correct this and many other problems that we are currently facing (Oil dependency, pollution, corruption, wars)... This T-Zero and other Electric Vehicles could aid grid overloading, utilize nightly power over-production provide clean reliable and FUN daily transportation producing zero emmissions and using zero oil. period. Check out their White Papers. and What's New area (especially the ev-based vehicle-to-grid demonstration project)! I know it's a little pricy, how about the GM EV1 with an MSRP of less than $40K, in low volume production (Oh ya, if it had ever been for sale). There we go, More Jobs again... And Imagin how the cost would come down if we built 100,000 of them here at home.

And for all of you that are going to diss on electric cars, keep in mind that you know nothing about them. They have power and range, and are very effecient at 80% to 90% from the outlet. Batteries are recyclable and safe.

Hybrids are not Electric cars. Gas cars are brute force machines, their ICE's only push, Friction breaks slow them down. Hybrids are the "Missing Links". They Push just the same, but are capable of "Recycling Kinetic Energy", however all power originates from the gassoline. EV's are the Answer, The Push even harder, Regenerate Better, use about 1/4 the energy, and produce Zero Emissions. Infinite MPG.

To Bring this full circle, I can make my own electricity, and more of us should. It shines down on us each day and blows above our homes durring each of our lifetimes. Build something usefull to our children, not more problems.

L8r
Ryan

• Starve a terrorist, drive an electric vehicle.
• I love plugging in! Do you like pumping gas?
• Would you drive your car if the exhaust came out of the steering wheel?
• Sorry about your "GAS PROBLEM".
• It's not Electric if you Can't Plug It In.

Just hook the thing up to one of the TZero's Range extending trailers and the problem's solved. Hell, you might even get the thing up above 15mph! ;-)

Just hook the thing up to one of the TZero's Range extending trailers and the problem's solved. Hell, you might even get the thing up above 15mph! ;-)

If the batteries are paying their own way by e.g. buffering power fluctuations on the grid (and preventing events like 8/14), the cost of driving the electric car becomes the cost of electricity. Compared to gasoline, electricity is pretty cheap (10-20 KWH of electricity for a buck depending on the time of day rate, compared to 5-10 KWH worth of gasoline for a buck at typical efficiencies and pump prices).

* It may do 0-60 in 4 seconds, but so can lots of vehicles if you do hairy modifications to the engine and drivetrain. The car is tiny and light, obviously, since it needs only 200 horsepower to produce those figures.

2450 pounds is not light in my book, though the lithium-ion version is reported to weigh a bit under 2000 pounds. The sparkling performance is due in no small part to maximum torque being available from zero speed, a characteristic of many types of electric motors.

* Note the careful wording: "...Efficiency *to* 70 mpg." That tells me they are taking an average and counting when the motors are off while cruising.

You count the time your engine isn't working on a downslope when calculating your gas mileage, and your car gets its best mileage when putting along on the cruise control too. Not that the tzero's motor shuts off; the tzero doesn't have gears or even a clutch, so the motor is spinning whenever the car is moving.

* Good luck getting a charge when you run out of juice in the middle of nowhere. At least the AAA can bring you a 5 gallon container of petrol with a conventional vehicle.

If these vehicles were common you'd have charging stations everywhere, and you could always accept a partial charge from another vehicle. You know, like siphoning gas only without the risk of fire? (AC Propulsion used to list this as one of the features of their technology, but they've either removed it from their web site or made it very hard to find. It is implicit in the ability to generate AC to back-feed the grid; see the link named "Vehicle-to-Grid Demonstration Project: Grid Regulation Ancillary Service with a Battery Electric Vehicle".)

* A 100 mile cruising range is less than one half of the range of a typical passenger car with an ICE

That's for lead-acid batteries. The lithium-ion version has a range of about 300 miles.

* Totally electric cars are less efficient in the winter, when power is drawn for heating.

That's what hybrids are for. If you are using the hybrid battery in "depletion mode", you just switch over to engine power after you use the battery's non-surge capacity. If you run short distances between charges, that might be never.

* The emissions aren't "near zero," it's just that the extra pollution would be emitted from power generation facilities. Those power generators may be more efficient, but an increase in output (to supply these vehicles) is going to introduce tons (literally) more pollutants into small areas of the planet.

Figures? The typical ICE vehicle runs around 20% efficiency or less on average. If the tzero is powered by combined-cycle powerplants burning natural gas at 50% efficiency and has 40% losses in transmission, batteries and conversion, that's still 30% net efficiency. Plus, the waste heat of the combined-cycle plant can be harnessed to do useful things; you can't do that with the heat coming out of the radiator, exhaust or brakes of the ICE car. And with electric cars and microturbines as co-generating heating plants, the net efficiency of the system can go over 80%.

You can also hook the tzero up to a wind plant or solar panels. 500 watts of solar panels would give you about 12 miles a day. The I

* It may do 0-60 in 4 seconds, but so can lots of vehicles if you do hairy modifications to the engine and drivetrain. The car is tiny and light, obviously, since it needs only 200 horsepower to produce those figures.

2450 pounds is not light in my book, though the lithium-ion version is reported to weigh a bit under 2000 pounds. The sparkling performance is due in no small part to maximum torque being available from zero speed, a characteristic of many types of electric motors.

* Note the careful wording: "...Efficiency *to* 70 mpg." That tells me they are taking an average and counting when the motors are off while cruising.

You count the time your engine isn't working on a downslope when calculating your gas mileage, and your car gets its best mileage when putting along on the cruise control too. Not that the tzero's motor shuts off; the tzero doesn't have gears or even a clutch, so the motor is spinning whenever the car is moving.

* Good luck getting a charge when you run out of juice in the middle of nowhere. At least the AAA can bring you a 5 gallon container of petrol with a conventional vehicle.

If these vehicles were common you'd have charging stations everywhere, and you could always accept a partial charge from another vehicle. You know, like siphoning gas only without the risk of fire? (AC Propulsion used to list this as one of the features of their technology, but they've either removed it from their web site or made it very hard to find. It is implicit in the ability to generate AC to back-feed the grid; see the link named "Vehicle-to-Grid Demonstration Project: Grid Regulation Ancillary Service with a Battery Electric Vehicle".)

* A 100 mile cruising range is less than one half of the range of a typical passenger car with an ICE

That's for lead-acid batteries. The lithium-ion version has a range of about 300 miles.

* Totally electric cars are less efficient in the winter, when power is drawn for heating.

That's what hybrids are for. If you are using the hybrid battery in "depletion mode", you just switch over to engine power after you use the battery's non-surge capacity. If you run short distances between charges, that might be never.

* The emissions aren't "near zero," it's just that the extra pollution would be emitted from power generation facilities. Those power generators may be more efficient, but an increase in output (to supply these vehicles) is going to introduce tons (literally) more pollutants into small areas of the planet.

Figures? The typical ICE vehicle runs around 20% efficiency or less on average. If the tzero is powered by combined-cycle powerplants burning natural gas at 50% efficiency and has 40% losses in transmission, batteries and conversion, that's still 30% net efficiency. Plus, the waste heat of the combined-cycle plant can be harnessed to do useful things; you can't do that with the heat coming out of the radiator, exhaust or brakes of the ICE car. And with electric cars and microturbines as co-generating heating plants, the net efficiency of the system can go over 80%.

You can also hook the tzero up to a wind plant or solar panels. 500 watts of solar panels would give you about 12 miles a day. The I

Not only is the tZero a sporty little electric car with amazing acceleration, it can also achieve reasonable mileage and range using their hybrid range extended trailer. There are links in the AC Propulsion white papers section regarding the range extending trailer. Also, a link to a PDF

With this thing attached the car it gets a combined 40 MPG (highway driving at 100kph/60mph) and a range of around 380 miles. Not bad for a sports car. Another cool feature of the trailer is that it has a linked steering system; it's not a freewheeling trailer, rather the trailer wheels move with the car steering. This makes things like backing up (parallel parking and the like) much easier for those without experience towing a trailer.

Neat little car.

Not only is the tZero a sporty little electric car with amazing acceleration, it can also achieve reasonable mileage and range using their hybrid range extended trailer. There are links in the AC Propulsion white papers section regarding the range extending trailer. Also, a link to a PDF

With this thing attached the car it gets a combined 40 MPG (highway driving at 100kph/60mph) and a range of around 380 miles. Not bad for a sports car. Another cool feature of the trailer is that it has a linked steering system; it's not a freewheeling trailer, rather the trailer wheels move with the car steering. This makes things like backing up (parallel parking and the like) much easier for those without experience towing a trailer.

Neat little car.

the company's website

For everyone that thinks the batteries will be too expensive, they say you can get a new set for $3,000. That isn't that bad. Plus, it also says that they last "15,000 to 20,000 miles", which sounds pretty good to me.

http://www.acpropulsion.com/tzero_pages/tzero_FAQs .htm

OK, you probably don't want to blow $100Gs on your first car, but hopefully the performance of this thing gives us something to look forward to.

I want one of these.

Three years ago, they matched a prototype of this car against a Ferarri, a Corvette, a Miata and a Porche Carerra on a 1/8 mile drag strip. It beat, by 7 lengths, all of these except the Miata. The only reason the Miata won was because the driver of the T-Zero forgot to disengage the hand brake.

The acpropulsion guys do more than think about making fast cars. See this [PDF] for a thorough explanation of why hydrogen fuel is a boondoggle perpetuated by the Detroit automakers who will forever be "just a few years away" from production. See this [PDF] for ways in which battery (not hydrogen) powered cars can provide distributed power back to the grid, precisely at peak times.

The acpropulsion guys do more than think about making fast cars. See this [PDF] for a thorough explanation of why hydrogen fuel is a boondoggle perpetuated by the Detroit automakers who will forever be "just a few years away" from production. See this [PDF] for ways in which battery (not hydrogen) powered cars can provide distributed power back to the grid, precisely at peak times.

Hmmm. "The tzero is being readied for production, and is expected to begin deliveries in 2002.", and the article you cite is from 2000.... I smell the ugly stench of vapourware!

Additionally, some major component appears to be on tow. I'm rather baffled as to what this is. Bolt-on internal combustion engine, perhaps?

I rather like this one... AC Propulsion's tZero Both are battery powered, of course.

Ricer's jaws dropping at something faster than them without a dumb sounding exhaust tip: priceless.

An article on it beating the other cards is here.

The same idea, storing energy in cars, houses etc. could work without hydrogen as well. The guys at AC Propulsion have been working on a "Vehicle-to-Grid" energy system for a long time now.
-6d

Are we cursed forever to avoid using the single most commmon element in the universe, one that will burn clean, simply because someone burned a balloon with it once decades ago?

1. Current production is almost entirely non-renewable. Signatories to the Kyoto treaty will not be able to make their targets by "switching" to hydrogen if they make it from natural gas (or, heaven forbid, coal).
2. Production is highly inefficient. Whether it's made from hydrocarbons, carbohydrates (polysaccharides such as wood) or electricity, the hydrogen only embodies a relatively small fraction of the energy which goes into the process. This further increases the cost, as well as CO2 production if the raw material is any kind of carbon-based fuel.
3. Production is costly, relatively speaking. Storing energy as hydrogen appears to cost several times as much as gasoline.

Now compare that to our current state of affairs: the vast majority of our electricity coming from coal or gas, much of it imported; our cars running on gasoline, almost all of it imported.

Now try and tell me it doesn't make sense to switch.

This is one area that electric cars may be able to provide a valuable service in what's known as vehicle to grid. A small company in california has been doing a lot of research on the topic and it looks promising. Theoretically, if you get enough electric cars that are plugged into the grid whenever they're not in use, they can provide near-realtime load balancing by remote dispatching from the power company. Say the power surge that took out the grid happened, but this time with a few hundred thousand electric cars plugged into it. The company could send a broadcast to the cars to absorb the extra load within a few seconds, and stop the cascading failure. Conversely, if there's a sudden demand spike, the cars could be ordered to temporarily supply it until the spike subsided. Obviously there's many technical hurdles but the general idea is very cool.

What you mean like the T-Zero?

I'll take a tzero thanks.

Finally, how does 42V DC convert much easier to 120V AC? Don't you still have to use an inverter?

Yeah, that's exactly what I was thinking. You can already get a pretty beefy inverter for under $100 to run equipment from your car. I think this is just another case of the big auto manufacturers tacking another $1000 on to the price of a car instead of giving us really innovative vehicles like this.

1) Lead batteries are the most recycled product on the face of the earth. No kidding. The only part not always recycled is the plastic shell. The lead and electrolytes are all reused.

2) There are plenty of them (and tons that drive more like the gas econoboxes that are more common than the gas sports cars). You can see some here, here, here, here, and here. Or peruse the entire album of EVs great and small, ugly and beautiful, slow and fast at the EV Photo Album.

Also see The National Electric Drag Racing Association and the electric supercar, the T-Zero

3) I'm sorry when did you get a muscle car with a 400 mile range? Generally (even with an oversized gas tank) these cars come in at the 200-300 mile range per fill-up at best. Are EV's there yet? Not quite. 150 miles per charge is about the upper limit right now. But guess what? 95% or more of most Americans driving is less than 50 miles per day.

4) Since the car is plugged into the wall every night and charges while you sleep you're not having to blow 5-10 minutes pumping gas and that's excluding any time and effort it takes you to detour to the gas station.

However, a significantly shorter recharge is easily done with higher Amperage circuits in your home (typical EV car can recharge in only a few hours anyway) and/or a battery based dump station that can recharge your pack in 10 minutes or less. The EV dragsters use such (admittedly somewhat frightening) dump packs on a regular basis.

5) Oh and most of these supposedly wimpy electric car conversions can eat your American muscle car for lunch. It's nice being able to have your full torque available through your entire power curve.

Heck some electric cars can even eat exotic sports cars for lunch.