Slashdot Mirror
Light Bulb Replacements
LoveOO writes Boston.com has a story about three companies which are trying to replace the Light bulb. I say it's about time and what about hydrogen powered vehicles? Two things that annoy me are filling the gas tank and changing light bulbs. It's time we did alot less of both."
Plans to build a better mousetrap are still at the brainstorming stage
Filling the gas tank is so much worse than filling the hydrogen tank?
Je ne comprende pas.
How small a thought it takes to fill a whole life
Using the toilet? I think they should fix that problem. :)
But if we get rid of the lightbulb what will appear over my head next time of think of something?
Two things that annoy me are filling the gas tank and changing light bulbs. It's time we did alot less of both.
Do them both at the same time, sooner or later you won't have to do either ever again.
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
From the article:
(Imagine that, though: a computer that would glow different colors based on how much of its processing power was being used. When it turned red, you'd know that a crash was imminent.)
The Red Computer of Death then. I am not sure why your computer should crash if too much processing power is used. Maybe a combination of AMD procs and Windows?
I'll do it for cheesy poofs.
From the article:
"and they require much less electricity -- up to 80 percent less"
"You could replace a 100-watt light bulb with a 60-watt LED, and get the same brightness,"
"You'd save 40 percent on power"
So it is 80 percent or 40 percent?
=)
Two things that annoy me are filling the gas tank and changing light bulbs
/. articles complaining about people worrying about optimizing the wrong sort of time wasting activities. Oh wait...
OK. So how much time are you spending changing light bulbs per year? And was the total time spent submitting this news story longer?
To be honest I don't think that changing light bulbs is a major household time sink. (Different story of course for people who deal with traffic lights, and hence the move to LEDs). I must spend minutes per year changing light bulbs, I waste far more time replying to
John.
Last I looked into white LEDs there was still a color problem. The light comes out just a bit too blue. At the time, it was impossible to get a truer white in a single 'bulb'.
Getting diabetes AND salmonella would be a bad weekend.
I don't know about you, but im realizing the same benefits as they claim you get from LEDs, but my bulbs cost a whopping $2 for a lamp bulb and $3 for a fixture bulb. Flourescent! Cheap, no heat, hard(er) to break. Think about it.
Jeff
Well, I'm damn sure Color Kinetics isn't getting any of my money. From the article:
The company holds 19 patents related to the control of LED lighting systems, and has filed for more than 100 additional patents. "We spend about a million dollars a year filing patents," says chief executive George Mueller. The company has two full-time patent lawyers in-house, and also works with the Boston firm of Wolf, Greenfield & Sacks.
And:
It'll be interesting to see whether Color Kinetics can exact a licensing fee from anyone who blends colored LEDs. Says Simms: "We haven't invested the fortune that we have in intellectual property without planning to defend it."
I'm not going to rant about this, because you've all heard it before. So I'll just sit here and fume silently...
There is just waaay to much invested interest (read: light-bulb production companies) that the project is going to get buried.
By the way, they will have to build the new bulb to be reverse-compatible with the current electricity systems (otherwise nobody will buy it).
It's just a bunch of hype, in my cynical view...
Who took my tinfoil hat?
no... no...
The question is:
How many engineers does it take to change a lightbulb? No... I mean to REALLY change it?
You mean you would prefer to lay down a new layer of indiglo, and refuel your car by changing nuclear fuel rods?
Note the humour, but also the idea embedded within it: these two tasks are the simplest of human-performed tasks. Hence the "how many blondes to unscrew a light-bulb" jokes...
Hyrdrogen "clean" fuel is a misnomer...since the hydrogen you get from one of these California H2 stations is made from natural gas, and not electrolysis. You end up using fossil fuels just the same. Maybe some day we can switch to from-water hydrogen...but where are we going to get those petawatts of electricity to do that? Nuclear power? We can't agree on a place to get rid of our waste. Solar? It takes energy to produce those acres of panels, and you are displacing wildlife in the process. Microwave from satellites? Just wait until that satellite malfunctions and carves a 500-foot-wide trench through Manhattan. There is no "clean" solution here.
Wait, so if you don't fill up your hydrogen powered vehicle, where does the energy come from? Better yet, explain where the hydrogen will come from to power your vehicle. Don't become enveloped in the promise of hydrogen power. Without an efficient way of extracting hydrogen that doesn't use fossil fuels as the underlying energy source for the extraction, the promise of hydrogen power is a sham. If the Bush administration says that hydrogen fuel will be our savior, perhaps that's a clue that you should educate yourself on where such a fuel would come from. Putting money into hydrogen is wasteful without clean sources of energy to make extract the hydrogen. You might as well just keep burning oil because hydrogen extracted by a process utilizing fossil fuel will only end up costing you more money.
Slashdot needs a basic physics primer that explains such concepts as "energy" and the laws of thermodynamics.
The best way to accelerate a windows box is at 9.8 meters per second square.
At 7c per KWH
((((12 x 365) x 100) / 1,000) x $0.07) = $30.66
this is under the 5000 hours of long life bulbs which cost less than $3.
Who cares how much the bulb costs ?
Dude, relax alittle.
"Two things that annoy me are filling the gas tank and changing light bulbs."
How do you make it through the day? If this is your biggest gripe then consider yourself extremely fortunate.
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
LEDs have their places where you need something bright and compact that can be turned on and off quickly. I like the new LED flashlights, brake lights, and street lights. But use flourescents for lighting, please, and use them today.
Can't you see that everyone is buying station wagons?
I have been hearing this story for the past 20 years, along with the death of magnetic storage media. Light bulbs are so damned cheap that it is very difficult to convince people to replace a $0.20 part with a $20.00 one, or even a $2.00 one, despite their energy inefficiency. Another problem: I purchased a few of the high efficiency screw in florescent bulbs, (despite their costs)and as soon as I installed it my wife commented that they were ugly, so they have all been relegated to the basement.
My rights don't need management.
if the manufacturing costs could come down. We waste TONS of energy on those little heaters we call light bulbs. Most of the energy that an incandescent bulb dissipates is done so in the form of heat. LEDs are indeed incredibly efficient in comparison, last longer, and the whole bit. The only problem is cost.
I think something to think about, however, is the effects of monotonic spectral emissions on aesthetics. Lightbulbs more or less follow Wien's Law which states that an object of a certain temperature emits energy along a continuous spectrum, with the peak at 0.0029/T(kelvin) nanometers. LEDs are monochrome or polychrome (in the case of white LEDs) so you get one or a few colors, but not a continuous spectrum. I wonder what effect this might have on people's comfort in their surroundings, psychology, or whatnot...
Once the cost comes down, we might get to study these results... Of course, with all the jobs and factories going to India, that might not be a problem after too much longer...
Additionally, you can't go wrong with nuclear power if you're looking at least polluting power sources. Many people look at solar as if its some sort of panacea, but the amount of energy that goes into making a tile is far more than you'll ever get out of it -- turns out that at the end of the day the thing everybody's been complaining about is the best option because all the pollution is contained.
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try.
-- Dr. Spock, stardate 2822-3.
The thing is, no matter how cheap they make LED lightbulbs, I doubt they'll ever get as cheap as the incandescent bulb, as the incandescent bulb is just plain out cheaper to make as it is much more simple. Therefore, the Wal-mart crowds will still buy the standard bulbs for years to come.
What they should do if they want people to adopt these new bulbs is make it so all lightbulb packages have to display the average cost of the lightbulb over its lifetime. People may see that the LED or flourescent lights sitting on the shelf right now cost a lot more and don't buy them, but I bet they will when they see on the box that the bulb over it's lifetime costs a fraction as much in electricity used.
"How many companies does it take to replace the light-bulb?"
How many companies does it take to change a lightbulb?
answer: 3. But i fail to see where the joke is...
Black holes occur when God divides by zero.
Looks like they need to scale the cost down by 80-90% to spark widespread adoption. That's no mean feat...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
I have always suspected that many electrical issues, including frequently blown light bulbs, are caused by dirty power. What I really want isn't better light bulbs, it's better power. Everything would operate better and/or longer if the power coming out of the sockets wasn't so random and dirty. Ever look at a standard 120V AC on an oscilliscope? Nasty.
Does anyone know of a whole-house solution for providing clean, voltage-regulated power to an entire house? I probably have $50K+ of computers, music equipment, home theatre, etc, and all of it would be better off with clean power.
We have whole-house solutions for water filtering, air filtering, so where's my whole-house solution for clean power (and maybe even whole-house UPS?)
"Some time" is different from "sometime". "Every day" is different from "everyday". "Alright" isn't a word at all. Neither is "alot".
The space bar is right there. Use it.
Lots and I mean lots of tractor trailers are using LED tail lights now. Admittedly, the wattages are a lot lower and red is cheaper than white, but take a look at the next several trucks you get behind - at least some of them will have the tell-tale "pixel pattern" that comes from replacing a bulb with a grid of jumbo LEDs.
Clear, Dark Skies
Florescent lights work just fine, are more efficent (especially if you want white light) than incandescent bulbs or LEDs, and are cheap and well developed in comparison.
They've got a whole spectrum of colored tubes using the same technology as they use to make neon signs, if you so desire.
The only thing that you get with LEDs is the ability to get small amounts of light from very small amounts of power.
They are great for microlights and flashlights and medium-sized jumbotrons and a few special purpose applications where normal lights just won't work. The LED manufacturers are getting sick of just making indicator lights, so they are trying to push their new toys as much as they can.
Gentoo Sucks
Gonna read the article now, but a brief scan of the comments brings up some strange math...
Replace a 100W lightbulb with a 60W led bulb? Or a 40W led bulb?
How about *right now* replacing a 100W lightbulb with a 25W fluorescent lightbulb...?
GPL Deconstructed
Are you one of those guys -- used to be Poles, but don't know who the current victims are -- who needs to get some helpers to change bulbs?
One thing that annoys me is people who say "alot" as if it were a word.
How can you tell when they say 'alot' as opposed to 'a lot'?
Sounds the same to me.
However, when they write 'alot' as if it's one word, then I'd agree that it's annoying.
does it take to replace a light bulb?
Done. Now about Soviet Russia....
The fact is that you need energy to produce hydrogen, and that energy is probably going to come from either Coal, or Natural Gas. The end user thinks their helping the environment, but what really happens is that the production of a carbon exhaust is moved back in the supply chain. The amount of Hydrogen produced by a renewable source in any reasonably short time frame (20 years) is going to be almost negligible.
The Hydrogen Future seems too good to be true, because it is.
--Mike--
Another thing I find annoying is white light. I am sick and tired of white light. Who the heck needs white light at night. About 12 hours of white light a day is more than enough for me.
I, for one, would find the red/green light emitted by LEDs a welcome change.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
Are people really that lazy that they cant change a light bulb ? 20 years from now you will here people complaining how they need a better sollution to wiping their asses.
Yeah but Fluorescence makes an ugly green light that makes people depressed and sometimes feel sick... I don't know about you but I feel like fluorescent lights burn a fissure into your soul
I've tried over and over to use flourescents, but:
Clear, Dark Skies
That report states that personal LED light bulbs would be $100 each. That seems rather high.
Couldn't we enterprising slashdotters come up with our own LED white bulb? And publish a how to?
I'm thinking take 3 white LEDs, immerse them in a plastic or epoxy mixture to diffuse or scatter the light and apply some circuitry to allow them to work in a bulb socket and there you go.
Anyone care to help out or provide info?
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
Hydrogen cars just have a hydrogen tank that still needs to be filled.
If you want to avoid filling a tank, what you want is a battery electric car. Then you're not filling a tank, but filling (er.. charging) a battery. While that doesn't seem much different (you're still filling something), charging the battery can be easily integrated with getting home, plugging the car in, and closing the garage door.
- David
I also wonder if any company who invents these lightbulbs will not build in some sort of artificially short lifespan so as to have an increased revenue as people have to continually buy more.
Buy Steampunk Clothing Online!
I can go to IKEA and get cheap compact fluorescent bulbs which fit in "regular" light bulb sockets. Even the 11w and 20w variants can be quite bright. I'm not sure how long they last, because I haven't replaced one yet.
Yes, fluourescent lighting isn't as nice aesthetically as incandescent lighting, so I still have a full spectrum incandescent in my bedroom (right next to the lava lamp). And I also can't replace the incandescent in that cool 3-brightness touch lamp in the living room (but again, I prefer to only use fluorescents in areas like the bathroom, kitchen, doorstep, hall, etc.). I'd be interested in finding out how LED lighting "feels" compared to current technologies, and also how the spectrum stacks up (wouldn't it be great to save on electricity and counter SAD at the same time?)
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
to change a light bulb?
1 to make the press release
2 to dump stock after the market reacts
3 to claim licensing fees on the first 2.
Note that the bulb actually never gets changed.
Great!! I'm not against the concepts of patents, but this just seems crazy, this can only hinder innovation not promote it.
overly broad patents + full time patent lawers != good business
There is no dark side of the moon really, matter of fact it's all dark
apparently they arent very bright, it sure took a long exposer to get that pic on their site...
yes, i know it was for ambiance and not photography, its a joke
i sell illegal drugs
(Imagine that, though: a computer that would glow different colors based on how much of its processing power was being used. When it turned red, you'd know that a crash was imminent.)
So based on the above statement, if I run video editing software, or defrag my hard drive, or even run CPUIdle, then the computer will glow hot red, and therefore a crash is imminent.
Cool!
In the first paragraph, it looks like Apple is trying to pull a Taco Bell.
Homestarrunner.net -- It's Dot Com!
How about that toothpaste? Sure, you've got minty and you've got spicy, but when are they gonna come through with that grape flavor I've been holding out for?
They are a bit more expensive, but last for years.. ( literally years, I've had mine running for 5 years now.. only one that's blown is the one the cat knocked over, and shattered..
They also save power, and have many many sizes to fit most any lamp.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Are there any plans out there for a DIY LED lightbulb? Or a cheap compact 1.5v power supply?
I must say that Color Kinetics gear rocks. Their color-mixing LED arrays not only look cool, but are a neat toy to program for fancy light shows.
Also on the LED front, the city where I currently reside (champaign, IL) recently passed funding and a proposal to replace all of the old incandescent traffic signals with LED arrays. Should cost a lot of money originally, but will save big on electricity bills in the long run. Here is an interesing EPA EnergyStar paper talking about the potential energy savings that cities can get from this technology -- 1 Million kWh and nearly $70,000 per year per 100 intersections! Also, LED based traffic signals are (IMHO) easier to see both at night and during the day.
One complaint from a study is that the green traffic lights are actually too bright.
worlds oldest currently operating college webcamWho is General Failure? And why is he reading my disk????
How many Slashdotters does it take to change a light bulb?
... another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive 2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp" 15 know-it-alls who claim *they* were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct 156 to email the participant's ISPs complaining that they are in violation of their "acceptable use policy" 109 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum 203 to demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic forum, and lightbulb forum about changing light bulbs be stopped 111 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this forum 306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty 27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs 14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's 3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group 33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too" 12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy 19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three" 4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ 44 to ask what is a "FAQ" 4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?" 143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs", 43 to post "In Soviet Russia we dont change light bulbs", 67 to reply "You insensitive clod, I prefer candles!" and 1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again
1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed 14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently 7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs 27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs 53 to flame the spell checkers 41 to correct spelling/grammar flames 6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"
--
One by one the penguins steal my sanity...
How many Boston companies does it take to replace a lightbulb?
Three, apparently!
Sorry. I don't get out much... back to the home for me.
Putting 2 distinct words into one is something we could do a lot less of...
Will these LED bulbs fit into a normal light bulb socket?
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
... still has the factory-installed bulbs (headlamps, blinkers, tail lights, brake lights, et al). Never needed to replace any of them bulbs. Considering the fact that my lights are always on even during the daytime, and I drive everyday, these lightbulbs are great.
All inventors should be punished?
Edison himself used patent law to his advantage.
Clear, Dark Skies
Hydrogen is a joke. It takes energy to break apart water. Besides, the highest energy density available is in hydrocarbon chains (i.e. gasoline).
compact fluorescent lightbulbs? Cleaner burning, more efficient and cheaper to operate. And then G.E. won't have to hire more lobbyist to prevent this other stuff from getting in thier way.
Personally I think they should switch the socket to the spring-loaded bayonet style used in countries like Britain. I intensely dislike the normal screw sockets her in N. America. So much more effort, and I've had a few occasions were the glass unscrewed and left the metal base jammed in the socket (corroded or just double-threaded). I don't think the extra strength of the screw sockets is really worth it.
Here's all the relevant jokes about the topic:
b ulb.html
http://neil.franklin.ch/Jokes_and_Fun/Canon_Light
I especially like the last one....
Signature under construction
You can still use them. We'll never run out of idiots.
Your grandchild will ask you about that glass ball over someone's head. You'll have to explain that back in the old days, right after the incredibly disastrous Y2K, people were still using "analog light"
-- Leeeter than leet
Maybe you could try walking more or taking public transportation once in awhile? Can't say I recomend getting a Segway, though.
I don't like light, you insensitive clod!
Informatus Technologicus
Nevermind large sports screens using lightbulbs, it's been done with every CRT I've ever seen.
If you want to go pre-television, I believe there is some art in my local gallery from quite some time ago that uses small blobs of paint in much the same way that inkjets use dithering of 3-4 colours of ink.
by running an exterior light all night in the first place?
Light polluting scum.
Clear, Dark Skies
Now if I could just code a portable networkable class library to RTFA-ing robot on my behalf, that would be a triple crown.
Yeah. And let's automate interactivity too. And impressing the neighbors. We could make a waste-o-mataton to make this obsolete. Yeah. Start with a stoker furnace, and put piles of cash on the feed conveyer with a web cam catching it all, and subvert google with an army of hired bloggers to link to it. Sound like a winner?
Hmm. That's too labor intensive. I think I have a better idea: Create a virus that uses a DDoT (distributed denial of thriftiness) strategy. Anyway, whatever you do, just make sure to consider if Homer Simpson could afford to do it and if so, then never do it where people can see you.
The production of H2 in a plant is much cleaner then what you would think. In a controlled large scale system, you can make it pretty efficient and as a result run relatively cleaner.
Not saying its 100% clean, but its a net gain of 'clean', when you take into account the filth cars spew out using carbon based fuels directly..
And no, I'm not a tree hugger.. I LOVE my car.. but I also realize what it spits out the back end due to its fuel..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I've been driving a Honda Civic Hybrid for about a month, now. I like it a lot. It cost a little more than the normal Civic ($20k vs. $15k). I've seen 34-38 mpg in stop-and-go commuting traffic in the Philadelphia area. They claim 51, but that's probably highway, and I haven't done much extended driving with it yet.
;-)
I kept my older SUV for runs to Home Depot, but keep the Civic for my commuting. So far, so good!
I test-drove the original model Toyota Prius and didn't like it as well. The new Prius would seem promising, but it isn't out until next month...and I wanted my techno-fix.
This will kill the lightbulb joke. You'll tell your grandchildren a lightbulb joke and they'll say "what's a lightbulb?".
:)
A whole avenue of humourous pleasure will be closed
My father still tells the tale of the paint he saw in the '50-'60's that would eliminate light bulbs. I believe it was low voltage, so you just paint a surface, attach an electode (probably paint-over an electrode or 2 already anchored to the wall) and get as much light as needed with different sized surfaces. This way, entire ceilings or small spots could be used as illuminating sources. Liquid LED?
I'm sure GE had something to do with the product never seeing the "light of day" (um...yeah).
Plus ca change, plus c'est les memes choses.
http://users.rcn.com/zap.dnai/
With the recent blackout, especially here in Detroit/S.E. Michigan, I'm surprised I haven't heard much about converting to LED traffic signals. The power draw would be a lot less (less drain on power grid) and they could recover the higher parts cost because of less labor involved in replacing the traffic bulbs i.e. the LEDs last a lot longer than bulbs. You can even see them in the sunshine.
And lord knows, anyone who has driven through Detroit is familiar with burned-out traffic bulbs. LEDs seem like the ideal replacement.
{ - Generic Guy - }
While hydrogen fuel cells are not a source of energy, they are a storage medium that is significantly more efficient than batteries.
The idea is to centrally generate hydrogen (and maybe supliment at home with solar generation) so we don't have to burn so many hydrocarbons anymore. How the central generation of hydrogen is acheived can be altered as technology permits, WITHOUT replacing the entire energy infrastructure.
It's not the cost of the bulb that they're aiming at saving, it's the cost of the labor for 1) the cop directing the traffic while the 2) road crew changing light bulbs on the traffic light. The labor cost must be greater than (number of traditional bulbs equivalent to LED life)*(cost of traditional bulb) - (LED life) for this to be worthwhile from the labor standpoint.
Also, since LED use less power, replacing the bulbs with LED will also make it more energy efficient.
first postr
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
from regular energy-saving bulbs we have already? You know, the kind that look like a miniature fluorecent tube. I have most of my bulbs replaced with those, and even though they're slightly more expensive (about 3.50 apiece), they last about six times longer and consume significantly less power - a 11W version will give about as many lumens as a regular 60W bulb. So instead of focusing on new technologies, why not improve those that exist?
Q. How many companies does it take to replace a light bulb ?
A. Three.
Hmm... Where will we get the hydrogen for all those green hydrogen fueled cars? Nuclear power plants? Coal fired powered power plants? Those solutions for generating hydrogen are potentially worse than the continued use of diesel or gasoline fuels.
Wind power? Just look at the problems getting a pilot test done on the coast off Massachusetts. The Kennedy's are saying NIMBY to a commercial wind power generation project. Yes you can build them in the middle of the desert but then you have to build a power transmission line to get the product to the consumer. Due to the low density of the power the cost of building and maintaining the transmission lines needed to "add" windmill farms to the grid approaches the market value of the power generated.
Same NIMBY and transmission issues with solar generation projects.
Aqueous alcohol fuel cells look to be more realistic solution. You don't have to use as dry (water free) an alcohol as in direct combustion of the alcohol. Use of biomass generated methane gas and direct solar heating to power the grain fermentation units and distillation units would increase the energy density of the fuel. You flush a nice bit of biomass down your toilet every day so every major city has a ready supply. Plus recovery of the biomass from waste water via a closed loop tertiary water treatment system will provide additional drinking water for the city. Don't gag about drinking the treated sewage idea most likely if you like on a major river system and get your drinking water from that river you all ready do. You just have a lot less control over the quality of the water at the intake than you would with a closed system.
Fluorecent lights, are consuming about 25% of the energy for the same luminosity than incandescent lights (for slower people: 25W Fluo gives about "100W" incandescent light output).
The price is reasonable considering they last about 5 to 10 times longer. in average my 100W fluo costed me about 8$ each...
The downside is the fact that the base is bigger than standard lights, thus it won't always fit in all lamp types.
LEDS will be interresting when they will give you a 10:1 ratio (as opposed to 4:1 for fluo) at the same price. The other advantage for leds is they are smaller and don't require the high tension transformer, so they can fit and replace just about every type of smaller lights as well.
--- Metamoderating abusive downgraders since my 300th post.
fluorescent: Pro 1)Use minimal amounts of power 2)Compact 3)Produce large amounts of light Con 1)Light still has an annoying 60hz cycle, (could be deadly around machinery) 2)Warmth or coldness of light can be tricky to pick out. 3)Outdoor use is limited 4)Long warm-up times make them impractical for bathrooms and immediate turn-on areas. LED The LED bulb holds the promise to fix all of the inadequecies the current compact flourecents have while retaining their efficiency. I think there is a really big future in this technology.
While I can understand the "redundant" moderation, I can't understand the "Flamebait" point. I really do think people should spell words properly when they write.
:P
I apologize to the person who was deeply offended and scandalized by my belief. Plez forgiv me.
How may /.'ers does it take to change a light bulb?
We don't know, they haven't stopped posting yet.
Use your head, can't you, use your head,
You're on earth, there's no cure for that - S. Beckett
o.m.g. i nearly blew a retina trying to read the story.
what is the purpose of 6 point type again?
Score: -1 Don't Skip Desgin Classes.
If opportunity came disguised as temptation, one knock would be enough.
3^2 * 67^1 * 977^1
I don't go real faaaaaast,
or very far.
And when your friends see me,
They'll think you're gayyyyyyyy.
One - Of - Us
One - Of - Us
The area near me is under construction, and the silent, solar powered LED lights, are a huge improvement, over a small diesel engine runing 24/7, to run some blinking lights.
If you spend so much time changing bulbs that it's a serious time hog, then dude, time to rethink your house and add some friggin' windows. Compact fluorescents have a much longer life span than incandescents and are available now if additional fenestration gives you the heebie-jeebies.
As for your gas tank: ditch the gas-hogging POS you drive now and get a new Toyota Prius this fall: lots of room, plenty of power, 50+ mpg.
OR: buy a motorcycle (50+ mpg for many), a scooter (100+ mpg for some), or a bike (no gas at all!).
I recenly bought a bunch of Inova Microlights to pass out at work as a going away gift and the amout of light they product for their size in amazing.
I've been really itching to get ahold of a next generation Luxeon Star LED light. The CMG Sonic and Infinity look prety sturdy.
More information and comparisons on LEDs and LED flashlights han be found here.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Fluorescent bulbs contain mercury, and are rarely disposed of properly. Here's a stat I just found on the web (so it must be true) ...discarded [fluorescent] bulbs release approximately 2-4 tons of mercury per year in the United States...
(this is just the ones that are improperly disposed of and break)
I have read many responses about how compact fluorescent bulbs are a more viable alternative to LEDs. I am a great advocate of these ingeneous devices, but there is one advantage that LEDs may ultimately have... They are made of plastic and are thus harder to break than incadescent or fluorescent bulbs. This would make them ideal for environments that involve high pressures or places in which other bulbs are likely to be smashed. Examples: anything that gets put under water.
10 Bits= $.25
100 Bits= $.50
110 Bits= $.75
1000 Bits= 1 byte
In extreme cold, I've found CFLs to be slow-starting and dim at first. Luckily, they do produce enough heat to generally warm themselves to the point that they run at full brightness within a few minutes. Well over half my outside lights are fluorescent, and they seem to start rather reliably, even in sub-freezing temperatures.
Ah, now you're talking about standard, old-fashioned tubes. Truth is, I can bother myself to go through the effort of replacing the ballast once every 30 years or so.The only ones I really know of are low wattage (around 20 Watts) and cost around $100 each.
You can find a link to some here .
>> 3. They make everyone look slightly green
Keep shopping.
I, too, hated the funky color flourescent lights produced. Then, about a year ago, I discovered that Sunbeam sold screw-in flourescent lights that emit light indistinguishable from incandescents (to my pretty picky eyes).
I originally bought them from Target but stopped by a few days ago for the first time in a long time and learned that the don't sell them anymore. Oh, the wonders of the American marketing machine.
Not all flourscent lights are the same. Find the Sunbeams.
--Richard
Ever look at Surgex? You can even patch them in to the mains or invidual circuits.
No... I don't work for them.
sim
They already do this, and CFs are still not very popular.
Every CF package I've seen says "Saves $80 during the life of the bulb!" on a CF bulb costing $8. Pretty much a no-brainer, right? But still not many people using them.
I think the problem is that they still aren't quite bright enough. For some reason, nearly all the CFs peak out at about the lumen output of a 60, or maybe 75 watt bulb. Guess what, people want 100 watts of light output, or more.
I bought a fluorescent torchiere, but I had a hell of a time finding it and nearly as much trouble replacing the bulb. Also it still doesn't come close to the light put out by a 300 watt halogen torchiere.
"Which is exactly the reason that electricity, and every other fuel, should cost approximately a $shitload. Force people to move onto more efficient / effective appliances - be it a light bulb or aircon!"
Democrat?
to replace the light bulb?
That's "Mr. Soulless Automaton" to you, Bub.
I was amazed to see how T8's (electronic ballast flourscents) had come down in price recently, with shop-light fixtures available for around $10, and the bulbs going for $1-2 each. These things turn on instantly, have a very natural color, and produce more light while consuming only 32 watts each.
You'd think after all of these years someone would learn how to spell the words "a lot".
There is no such thing as alot, the word is meaningless.
a lot on the other hand is quite useful: to a very great degree or extent; "we enjoyed ourselves very much"; "she was very much interested"; "this would help a great deal"
it's a sig, wtf?
Yes, LEDs are a win over incandescent bulbs. Problem is, compact florescents are currently much more energy efficient than LEDs. The DOE is sponsering long-term research into solid-state light bulbs; there goals is to have LEDs as efficient as a sodium light by the year 2020. Doesn't mean LEDs are a bad idea, just means they won't be the best way of saving energy until a long time in the future. On the other hand, LEDs are a big win for long life, light weight, and relative ruggedness, and for colored lights, they don't require an energy-wasting filter; that's why they're being used in traffic lights, not because the energy savings.
"Freedom means freedom for everybody" -- Dick Cheney
for all that think flourescent's have bad color spectrums (and they mostly do), wait 'til you see the crappy spectrums of white LED's. The worst of all by far!
It's laughable that people would seriously think that white LED's are a viable alternative to existing bulbs. They're useful where you don't need a great deal of light, you don't care what it looks like, and you never want to change bulbs.
Power savings can be achieved with flourescents.
afganistan and iraq (think dup)
A quick search of Google revealed http://x10ideas.com/articles/displayx10article.asp ?articleid=26.
--- Jason Olshefsky
Karma: Poser (mostly affected by adding this line long after everyone else did)
Thinkgeek: overpriced, overratted, and overhyped.
***** COMING SOON! *****
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Since no one else has said it what about this technology? From what I've seen, 5-10+ year lifespan, way more efficient than LEDs in terms of light output per watt.
Find out about my new childrens book: SS Death Camp Criminal Batallion Go To Monte Carlo For The Massacre
My experience with coal fired power plants is that they are nearing 40% thermodynamic efficiency.
There is no magic bullet to make this picture multiple orders of magnatude better. The problem is complex, and requires a comprehensive (complex) solution. Hydrogen isn't it.
--Mike--
The fools! What were they thinking???
- Despite popular opinion, I am not perfect.
You are confusing "infesting in R&D" with "investing in intellectual property".
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
HYDROGEN POWER as a replacement to fossil fuels is A MYTH! There is NO WAY to generate hydrogen that doesn't use fossil fuels to begin with, or take more energy than the hydrogen will generate!
The quicker people realize this, the quicker we'll be able to move on to the next "great idea."
I've got a lot of pretty old LED stuff. I've never seen one burn out. From what I know of how they pump photons, I'm not sure how you would burn them out other than running them outside of spec.
Why does the article say "lasts up to 10 times longer"? Are they figuring on the probability of losing them to surges or accidents? Or is there something I don't know about LEDs?
Technically, anyone that is not professional military are members. Be them gun owners or not.
They may not be 'active', but by definition they are still a member.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
BUY BUY BUY. I do not know much about stocks, but if these lights get big, these companies stocks will sky rocket. Right???
Still the best way is the florecent alternative. I use all florecent in my home and getting the bulbs at cosco is cheep. I use about 15 watts as compared to 60 watts. I found different brands can produce a very similar colour of light as the old bulb.
If you read the article it only shows a drop from 100 watts to 60 watts, not much of a change compaired to the florecents (did I miss something?) and $100 a pop sucks.
click...
I remember reading about central lighting, a sort of light equivalent of central heating, or central a/c. Have powerful, super-efficient central lightsource, and then cheap fibre/fiber optics to pipe it around the home/office.
That seemed a much better bet to me, especially as some of that light might be piped from the roof into inner parts of the building...
Huh? You're basing your spelling on pronounciation?
Well in that cas i'll spel the rest of this post as I would pronouns it[1]. Thatll be oh kay with yu wont it?
[1]: inkluudin mi asxent as well, of corse
I see that a regular old light bulb converts 80% of it's electricity to heat. A fluorescent converts less electiricty to head. A LED converts even less to heat. My math says the LED wins.
Your math says that a regular old light bulb can be manufatured for less than a fluorescent or LED, your math says the old standard wins.
The real question is "What are we trying to conserve here?" If you want to conserve electricity, the LED and fluorescent prove to be better than the regular old light bulb, especially after you take into account the extra electricity used to air-condition that heat away. If you want to conserve constrution costs, the LED plants will cost a lot more to build and refine, and it will take decades before light fixtures are built with the LEDs in mind (instead of the old standby lightbulb). Considering that we may reclaim 80% of all the lost electricity sent to light, I think we should start building/funding these plants now.
Unfortunately, it seems that these people are determined to cash in on anything that may come from this market. So it looks like their patents will actually retard the "innovation" that could save a huge amount on our light bills.
I use clear Sylvania 130V bulbs throughout my house, and have not replaced a single bulb in over a year since I moved in. Not a single bulb.
Using a bulb rated at a higher voltage (at least 5V) than your electrical system (mine seems to provide 119V at a typical light socket on a circuit running around 6A) will extend the life of your bulbs by an order of magnitude, not just by a few weeks/months: the tradeoff is that light output is decreased, in my case by about 10%. No problem, just use a higher wattage bulb or more of them.
[ home ]
That is what is explicitly recognized in federal law. The actual understanding of the founders was that the militia is in general the "body of the people." Nose around a little and you can find references for that too.
"Rub her feet." -- L.L.
Everyobody here has at least 30 or so, how about we concentrate on those coasters?
Linux: Helping nerds look smarter since the late 90s.
Looking at what a disordered mess the English language is, it always amuses me how much trouble people put into nailing down rules.
Why don't we just engineer some cute little bacteria to eat bad things (maybe nuclear waste?) and make hydrogen. Heck, what if we just let these fellas lose on huge city dumps or something? They could eat and eat and eat and we'd just harvest off the hydrogen. We'd be breaking down some of our material waste and solving the dirty energy problem all at the same time!
Hexy - a strategy game for iPhone/iPod Touch
Q: How many Microsoft guys does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. They just change the standard to darkness.
Q: How many software engineers does it take to change a lightbulb?
A: None. That's a hardware problem.
You drive a electric car, you cannot wish away filling gas. Yes, if you have a hybrid then gas fillups are a little infrequent but you still gotta go.
Do you know that the only product that is keeping Ford out of the water is the F150 pickup truck and its variants?
When you have companies like that that were it not for their trucks and SUV's why do you think they will spend lots of money on hydrogen fuel research?
Electric only vehicles are a good 7-8 years away and the car makers that will lead the way will be the Japanese.
And hydrogen powered vehicles are a good 14-15 years away atleast( unless of course they can come up with a breakthrough).
Bush is on fire and its not good for my lungs.
Partly, to do with people using their cars unnecesarily, but also to do with how we transport goods. Production of many products is centralised, and then requires huge transportation costs.
The USA produces I think about 20% of the world's pollution. How much could you reduce this if people walked more and stopped driving huge SUVs?
Ever looked at balanced power solutions from Equi=Tech?
Get some of their systems with lots of filters hardwired into your main panel. Get a nice Kohler back-up generator upstream of that. Then put UPS(s) somewhere in the chain (exactly where is debatable) and you are set!
-- Cameron
1) Hydrogen gas isn't dense enough, even mixed perfectly with oxygen, to provide the force needed to fuse nuclei.
2) Hydrogen gas used for fuel cells doesn't contain enough of the H2+ and H3+ isotopes that a fusion reactor or hydrogen bomb needs to operate.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Instead of using coal or natural gas, use hydrogen. Duh.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
I have been intrigued with the notion of general lighting via LED for a few years now. I look to this as an opportunity for lighting enthusiasts to break out of the mold of chandeliers and lampshades, etc. Conventional light sources today run far too hot and with very limited control gradations. LED makes just enough sense while being also just crazy enough to work. I just wish I had the $$ to invest now, before the LED market explodes in a market event/orgy of Dionysian proportions.
Mmmmmm... Bold, yet refreshing!
Two things that annoy me are filling the gas tank and changing light bulbs. It's time we did alot less of both.
Couple of things:
1. "alot" should be "a lot". "Alot" is a proper word in the English dictionary and does not refer to quantity, look it up.
2. If you're tired of filling up your gas tank so frequently, their are many more cost efficient methods of transportation, the most economical being the bicycle. If that is too slow for your needs, move closer to your place of employment, grocery store, and bank, or get a gas/electric hybrid vehicle from Honda or Toyota, or purchase a small European diesel powered vehicle. Either way, you'll get about 60 miles per gallon.
3. Tired of changing lightbulbs? The Amish (largest population in Lancaster, PA) still use lanterns that burn precious petroleum fuels and even provide heat, a plus to anyone living in Ohio or further North. Candles I think probably give the most bang for the buck, and if you're truly talented enough, and I know you are since you posted an article on Slashdot, use that creative potential to harness the power of E A R W A X. I have no doubt that EARWAX could be a viable source of light, I know, I saw it done in the movie "Shrek", and it burns quite nicely and may even produce a pleasant aroma. Seriously though, Candle light served man through most of his existence on Earth. Hell, even the Bees produce wax that burns nicely and lasts long too, and it gives off a pleasant aroma.
4. One more suggestion, I promise! And this one is totally FREE, as in beer, but requires a little time to get working. There are these little bugs called "Lightening Bugs" that fly around at dusk. Yes, they are free, but you have to spend a little time to capture them. Now, once you have Lightening Bugs captured in a glass jar, rig up some contraption that allows them to fly into a collapsable cavity composed of TWO GLASS PLATES. The instant you smash these bugs between the plate glass, you'll have light for a few hours. Hell, this could be worth your while if you have young children. You get to wear-out the kids by having them hunt down the lightening bugs so you can have a romantic evening with the misses. Oh wait, I'm sorry, you have an account on Slashdot, YOU'RE NOT MARRIED!
ALL YOUR LIGHT ARE BELONG TO THE SUN.
I have a spiral buld porch light that is ten years old and still going with near nightly use.
--- Ban humanity.
It d doesn't do 180, I hope 130 is okay for street driving
So all they have to work on next is making it look overtly huge (when it doesn't need to be).
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
I've only owned a few cars, and I think i've only had to ever change one bulb in that time.. I can think of plenty more frustrating problems in life than changing blown bulbs on my car.
And as for filling up with gas.. well drive a more economical car, or just be a bit more careful with your right foot. I only need to fill up once every 2 weeks and its hardly like its a chore?
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Here at my office, they replaced all the ballast transformers in the overhead lamps with new 400Hz switching power supplies units and the tubes with new ones that are only half the diameter or the original 120VAC 60Hz standard tubes. They put out much more light than the old ones, have a "warmer" phosphor coating, and use less than half the electricity of the originals. They still have that flourescent lamp color however, but the best benefit is that they have absolutely no "strobe effect" against computer CRT monitors.
Just because I left out the part about 'the militia' it does not change the meaning of anything.
.. It only further defines WHY the amendment was in place, not modifies its intent.. which should be obvious to anyone with 1/2 a brain anyway.
All private citizens are part of the militia by definition, ( not the government ) and the concept of 'well regulated' in the definition of the time it was written translates to 'well trained'. Therefore its a moot point to include it in my space conservative version.
Including the rest of the phrase doesn't change a thing in this context. The rights of the individual person doesn't change
And your final statement, is totally irrelevant and horribly short sided, and has no bearing what's so ever. If you have read and UNDERSTOOD the intent of the framers, it would be clear how ludicrous of a statement it was. ( unless you truly believe this, which in that case there is no hope for you understanding the constitution, or our basic rights and freedoms at all. You just ride along and profit off others sacrifice in the past. Then bitch about it... )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
They do plenty. But one thing is good in the UK: blackouts are rare. I seem to suffer blackouts all the time in the US whether unintentional or 'rolling'.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
I've got a case window and I'm working on getting the cpu fire screensaver to work on a strip of ultra-bright LEDs in case instead of pixels on the screen.
The hardest part is getting lots of bright LEDs for cheap, (Still waiting for the mail) and soldering. Yup, I suck at it.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Hydrogen burns nearly invisibly, since the color in flame is the glowing carbon molecules. Look at the shuttles main engines, thres barely a small blue flame from them. Contrast that with the picutures of the hindenberg going up like a fireworks factory.
ANother thing to consider, for all the hooplah about the great tragedy, 2/3s of the passengers lived. Compare that to modern planes.
All Troll + "offtopic" mods are meta moderated as "Unfair", because you abused the system.
...just look at the new continuous-discharge HID xenon lamps like what are used in newest luxury car headlamps and airplane landing lights. That's the most irritating color temperature light I ever saw.
Or maybe Target simply wasn't selling many to justify stocking them. Everyone I know buys their compact flourescents home improvement centers like Home Depot or Lowes simply because those places pretty much have every shape and style you might want.
--- Ban humanity.
Maybe slashdot just needs to watch a little more of Bill Nye the Science Guy. As he explained it to me long ago, it's much better to have one big source of pollution than millions of small sources. There are two reasons I can think of: 1) it's cheaper and easier to make a giant fuel-efficient hydrogen plant than it is to make millions of fuel-efficient cars, and 2), when a better source of power or other technique comes along, you only have to upgrade one location, instead of upgrading every car.
While it's true that hydrogen still relies on fossil fuel right now, that doesn't mean that having a million tiny gas-burning engines is just as good as having one giant gas-burning plant.
Oh, God. Can you imagine what'll happen when consumers demand a single plug with both a water connection and a high-voltage electrical connection? Joe Sixpack, a puddle of water, leaking oil and a bit of gas (from the mower can) on the garage floor, and enough juice to make it all go boom. It's a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Forward, retransmit, or republish anything I say here. Just don't misquote me.
Regarding Color Kinetics: The company holds 19 patents related to the control of LED lighting systems, and has filed for more than 100 additional patents. "We spend about a million dollars a year filing patents," says chief executive George Mueller. The company has two full-time patent lawyers in-house, and also works with the Boston firm of Wolf, Greenfield & Sacks.
A witch! Burn the witch!
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
Do you guys get as many violent electrical storms over there as we do? Almost all my power issues can be traced to strong weather patterns.
It would help if people better understood what white light is.
The low power HID lamps are horrible.
I've been looking at bike light lately and I must say that the LED ones are quite impressive. Only three LEDs can compare with a normal bike light bulb, and the new models coming out are going to have five. And the fact that the LED lights 'burn' for about 100 hrs where a bulb would go for about 3.5hrs, makes LED lights very, very attractive.
--- to swing on the spiral...
They are *exactly* the same size as the incadescents they are replacing...
Ummm... The size of the base isn't the issue. While cf bulbs *have* gotten smaller than the old ring-style bulbs, they are simply too plump to fit in most of the table lamp fixtures in my house - they interfere with the "bulb shaped" struts that hold up the shade.
I have no idea what you are talking about here. Our compact flourescent lights have a much more pleasing spectrum than the yellow incandescents, and are very close to the full-spectrum lights we use around the house.
Ask any photographer why digital cameras have special "flourescent light" settings and why film cameras often use a special filter for flourescent lights.
In a nut shell, incandescents have a very yellow light, flourescents are green. You often don't notice it because your own brain automatically subtracts the color of the ambient light when you view a room.
Clear, Dark Skies
That's red, GREEN and blue that make white. Those are the frequencies the cones in your eyes perceive. When all three are active, you sense white.
Incadescents emit ALL colors, as they are radiating blackbodies (this is also why they are inefficient). Since LEDs can only emit specific colors, they have to resort to tricks to try to mimic the fullband color of incandescents. White LEDs are like florescent bulbs: they emit ultraviolet and use a powder-coating which glows bluish-white as a result. The trick is getting the powder chemistry correct without violating more advanced florescent lightbulb patents.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
One of the reasons that ordinary light bulbs are so cheap is the process of manufacturing. The glass blanks are made with a ribbon machine That is so incredibly efficient that only 15 of these machines produce all the glass blanks for all the lightbulbs produced today(see P10 of the linked pdf). It will be hard to top that for LED's or anything else.
Next thing you know, it's mutated and eating everything it touches
It will still be a huge step in the right direction to have ubiquitous hydrogen-powered vehicles. Once we have vehicles and infrastructure for using Hydrogen, we will be able to move to renewable sources of it. For example, people now pay a premium for organic foods, so people would pay extra for "green" hydrogen fuel even when cheaper is available at first. And as others have pointed out, eventually it should become cheaper to electrolyze water to create the hydrogen fuel in most places, thus achieving clean and renewable fuel.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the reason light bulbs burn out because there is a minute amount of oxygen wich slowly oxidises the filiment? Should not having a perfect vacuum within the bulb significantly extend the bulb's lifetime?
Also, what manufacturer would want to sell you something that lasts 80 years? They want you coming back for more, so they build items with a limited durability.
crazy dynamite monkey
Yeah, that's such a big problem, climbing up on a stool once a year and changing a 50 cent lightbulb. The humanity.
And forget hydrogen cars too. That's going to be a freakin mess trying to find a place to fill up. Not to mention most people in the know say it won't work anyway.
Ok the real deal is that Incandesents are a bad idea for a number of reasons: High power consumption, heat pollution(Remember what happened to the pearsons puppeteers?), frequent breakdown(by the way this offsets any energy savings from their production simplicity since even a florescent will outlast 5 or 6 and an LED could outlast 10 to 20). Note: In situations of unclean electricity or poor wiring the bult in control electronics in florescents helps mitigate the problems and they will outlast a incandescent by such a huge factor as to be not worth calculating. I had a socket that kept blowing bulbs every couple weeks from the surges when the switch was hit. I switched in a florescent and its been running for over a year and a half now.
Florescents are your best bet stop gap and I hear that Ikea sells them for the best price available anywhere and they are consistently coming down in price everywhere.
LED's are the Grail. They are extremely minimalist in raw resources( a transistor and a plastic shell that will outlast 5 or 6 FLORESCENTS), they beat even florescents in energy consuption by a factor of 4 or more, solid state so droppage or shock damage are not a factor. Color is easy to fix and as for price... Who here paid 10 large(this means $10,000USD in case your not in the know) for a laptop in 1993? Ok now how many shelled out $700 this year? LED's are Diodes just like the ones the computer industry has been perfecting for decades. The price will fall. Alot.
Sidenote: All transistors and diodes produces photons as a byproduct Your computer is (depending on its transistor density, since the wavelength of the photons are dependent on the size of the transistor) currently pumping out microwave and radio energy. Since they are not optomized for this effect as LED's are they amount is reletively small and most is absorbed into the chips structure and converted to heat.
one thing i've never understood about light bulbs is why there is so much empty space in there. it is, after all, a vacuum tube, right? (ok, not exactly a vacuum, but very low pressure.) it's my understanding that if there was air (oxygen) in there, then the filament would burn up almost instantly when you turn it on, which is why it's in a vacuum. a smaller tube would have even less oxygen in it (at the same pressure), which is better, right?
but why is the tube so big compared to such a small filament? if it's a heat dissipation issue, it seems like there would be other ways to deal with it. with so much miniaturization elsewhere, why is the old light bulb not any smaller?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've tried to replace most of my lights with CFs, and where the fixture has enough room, I've found the hidden benefit is dramatic upwatting of my lights while still using much less power than the properly sized incandescent. In a number of rooms I've been able to double or triple the lumens. This is helped by the monster 150-watt equivilents, although these need a pretty large fixture.
I also use 2-3 digital timers on lamps throughout the house, and these all get wattage-equivilent CF bulbs. The advantage here is that they run a lot cooler and use such insignificant power that you can set the timer to a wide range and not have to worry about turning the lights on or off.
I think eventually alot will become a word listed dictionaries. Hell, cannot is.
MIT Technology Review did a nice article on the development of LED replacements for light bulbs in the May 2003 issue. However, you need to be a paid subscriber to read this online.
The article focuses on the often secretive research going on at competing companies to develop a cost-effective white LED, which is needed to replace general illumination. Most white LEDs today are actually UV emitters with a white phosphor, reducing the efficiency. The other standard approach is to have red, green and blue LEDs together with a diffuser.
"Many people look at solar as if its some sort of panacea, but the amount of energy that goes into making a tile is far more than you'll ever get out of it"
I too once spouted this myth
But after some serious googling one day I could only find sites which disagree
Of course most of these sites have a vested interest in the future of solar energy, but I didn't find a single site which backed up the claim about pollution, and given the stakes in the energy game, I assume that Big Oil(tm) or Big Windmill(tm) would have made it easily available.
Sam
I have a suggestion for replacing lightbulbs. You can always pluck out your eyes with a grapefruit spoon. Of course if you are a woos and aren't into pain, you can always use candles.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
Having encountered Color Kinetics prior to this article, I was impressed with their elegant use of somewhat standard concepts to make something that hadn't been made before. It ain't rocket science but neither are many patents (e.g. paper clip design) that no one thinks are abusive.
Plus, their consumer products are loads of fun. I have no connection with Color Kinetics.
There's two basic measures for quality of white light. One is "Color temperature", which is how bluish or reddish the light looks. The other is Color Rendition Index, which tells you how true colors appear under the lights. Incandescent lamps have a color temperature of 2700-3000K (yellowish) and a C.R.I of nearly 100 (perfect).
Fluorescent tubes (and most compact fluorescents) tend to have a CRI around 82 (crappy), which is one big reason why people don't like to use them. Many also flicker and buzz and don't like to start in cold weather, but that's another issue.
So what about these LEDs? Just from the way LEDs work, I expect you might be able to get any color temperature you want, but your CRI is definitely going to be crappy. You can't approximate a continuous spectrum well with only a small number of discrete wavelengths, even if the light itself looks "white".
How many Moose(Archie comics) does it take to fix a lightbulb? Two. One to hold the bulb and the other to turn the ladder.
Bush is on fire and its not good for my lungs.
FYI: A modern internal combustion engine has a *theoretical* maximum efficiency of approximately 25%. Existing fuel cell engines have a practical efficiency of approximately 40%, and a theoretical maximum efficiency of about 70%.
Q: How many slashdotters does it take to change a lightbulb standard?
A: I thought the question was funny enough, come up with your own answer.
People, stop using this un-scientific term.
Dinosaurs did not die millions of years ago
and create petrol, this is a myth. Dead dinosaurs
are not fueling your car. Fuel does not
come from fossils. I hear this term over and
over again. Hydrocarbons are everywhere and
occur naturally in our galaxy, just ask any radio astronomer.
I think it's time to learn that a lot is two words instead of one...
If you're interested in hydrogen you'll probably be interested in an article in Popular Science on how the first retail hydrogen station is opening in Iceland. Makes sense since the country has few cars and lots of geothermal electricity coming from the Reykjanes geothermal area where the North American and Eurasian tectonic plates meet.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
I think that solar panels are net energy gainers after about 2 years. And you can put 'em on top of buildings
From a quick Google the average solar energy in North Americas is about 600 watts per meter square. So over a 12 hour day one receives:
12 hours x 600 watts per sq. m = 7200 watt-hours per sq. m which equals 4.8 kilowatt hours per sq. m.
This is equivalent to 0.19 gallons of gasoline.
For 1000 square feet of horizontal area (typical roof area single family two story home) this is equivalent to 18 gallons of gas or about 675 KWH.
Hmm... My last electric bill was for several times that and I have a natural gas water heater. The math only gets worse and worse for multi-family/multi-story buildings like any high-density area. I could get my vehicle fuel needs from my roof (if my home owners association would allow such a thing), but the majority of people/and businesses would be hard pressed to do so.
We'd still have to build solar farms and transmission/collection infrastructure to get the energy we need just for vehicles. You very quickly run into the NIMBY problems for alternative energy projects. Look at the resistance to building a wind generation pilot plant off the Massachusetts coast as an example. The majority of the resistance is from a group of in word only greens. They are trying to kill the project because it is in their back yard. Environmentalism is okay if they don't have to have their view of the ocean at their summer house blocked by the project.
Multiply the number of projects needed to fill the requirement by several thousand, since most places near enough to a location that needs the power are going to suffer from the NIMBY issue you have to increase the total cost of the project to include a collection network. Just because the solar panel is a net energy gainer after two years does not mean the collection, distribution, legal and maintenance costs will be amortized in two years. Who will sweep the dust off the panels every few hours to keep the efficiency up?
I guess my intellect is a little bit different than yours. The thought bubbles that appear above my head mostly consist of a cow's skull with the occasional tumbleweed passing in the background. I don't think anyone will be replacing tumbleweeds anytime soon.
I love GE Reveal incandescent lighting. The color and atmosphere makes a big difference in my vision and my attitude.
Are there comparable flourescent options?
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
I don't think you're right about regular light bulbs consuming fewer resources. We have a handy measure of the resources consumed to make something. It's called cost. That is, the total value of the resources used to make something. The price you pay for something that is traded as competitively as light bulbs is very close to the cost of the resources consumed making it (human and physical)
With compact florescent bulbs, the initial cost is higher ($8.00 vs. $0.20), but the lifetime cost is lower due to lower energy use and longer life. Incandescant lights are cheaper to make and better for the environment in low duty cycle applications (say in a closet), but are worse when the light is on continouslyI like my beverages with warning labels!
One of the things I like most about incandesant lights is that I can dim them. Call me ignorant, but is there a simple way to make a drop-in replacement LED "bulb" that will dim with traditional dimmers (which we know work by turning the light on and off, being off longer for dimmer lights).
If you can't dim them they're not going to be largely accepted and adopted, even at relitavely cheap price points.
Anyone care to clue me in as to if there are products like this or not yet? If so, if not - how would this work.
Thanks.
....but Target sells GE flourescent bulbs in 60w, 75w and 100w illumination. They also take 1/3 less electrical wattage and run 3 times longer. I'm going to buy some when the 4 new 75w bulbs I bought pop in a month.
Reviews with a twist! http://www.sardonicbastard.com
So I've been putting in CF lightbulbs all over my apartment whenever I can. The do cost more but I've cut down on both time spent changing the bulbs and the cost to run them.
In the summer they are great since they produce a lot less heat and so my apt. stays cooler as well.
I guess this answers the age old question: How many companies does it take to replace a lightbulb? Apparently the answer is 3.
We could just make light bulbs better so that they last longer. Some of the light bulbs that Edison made still work today after 100 years, but they aren't made like the bulbs today. If we just created them like this we wouldn't need LEDs.
Example 1
Example 2
Bulbs tend to burn out in that first instant power is applied to them; because the filament heats and flexes. This flexing will eventually break the filament, assuming oxidation doesn't get it first.
Clear, Dark Skies
Its a great idea considering the power consumption savings which are estimated at 40% according to the article.
I think what we still need to do though is change the culture of turning all the lights on in the house and in commercial establishments for even more power savings.
Since the blackout, everything from grocery to hardware and clothing have turned off 50% of the lights in the stores. There's some marketing theories about people buy more with the lights turned on. With 50% of the lights off, I find I'm more relaxed shopping and want to buy more. I've heard anecdotal evidence from many others.
I think its time we turn a lot of lights off, switching to LEDs is only part of the solution.
Q: How many SCO execs does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
A: It's a trick question. SCO execs make huge claims about being able to screw anyone, anywhere, any time, but that's just talk. When they have to actually follow through, they're never "up" to the challenge.
I fill the tank on my car about once every 2 weeks, and I don't remember the last time that I changed a light bulb. How is this a major crisis? Where is LoveOO living?
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
For those who live in Maryland, think of the Ft. McHenry or Harbor tunnels. Or you may have similar underwater tunnels in your area. Our tunnels are lined with fluorescent lights on both sides, and there are always a few out, which probably means that bulb crews go in there weekly, if not daily. We're talking miles of bulbs here, lit 24/7.
WMBC freeform/independent online radio.
I remember reading in a Readers Digest recently about a foundation that was bringing LED lights to third world regions. I was wondering why they didn't turn their attention to the real power consumers of the world, and try to cut down on energy costs. Then I found a site that sells LED bulbs that fit into 120V sockets. (http://www.theledlight.com/120-VAC-LEDbulbs.html) The prices are outrageous. $190 US for a bulb as bright as a 30W incandescent. I don't necessarily fault the company. I'm sure these reflect the cost required to manufacture LEDs. Obviously, these need to be mass-produced before the cost will go down.
--
Luck is just skill you didn't know you had.
if most people would just be smarter about what they purchase, it would go a long way in saving energy and $$$. Compact Fluorescent bulbs use about 1/4 the power and last much much longer than incandescent bulbs. A front-load washing machine uses about 1/4 the water and again, less energy than a top-load washer. And talk about automobiles; Honda and Toyota have hybrid vehicles on the road today which get over 50MPG and put out about 1/10 the emmisions of a similarly equipted car. Toyota will have a van and SUV soon that'll have the same setup and still plenty of power when you need it.
So the trick is to use what's available today and HOPE that some of these other dreams, like hydrogen powered cars, make it to the showroom floors. Because there is way too much politics playing in the game of next-gen automobile propulsion systems.
New light bulbs are great but what about what's already available. IMHO, we need to start using that first instead of waiting for the next great thing to not happen.
LoB
"Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road looks like roadkill to me." --Linus
Q: How many companies does it take to replace the light bulb?
A: Three.
1. One firm to dream up a replacement technology and patent it without actually specifying how it is to be achieved.
2. One firm to actually develop a replacement technology and bring it to market.
3. And a firm of lawyers to sue the second firm on behalf of the first firm.
4. ???
5. Profit!
In SOVIET RUSSIA, Beowulf cluster of lighbulbs invents YOU!
Whoa! Where can I get some of this stuff, and is it safe to be around? (I'm not planning on eating it.)
W00T! I married the geekiest guy I know (/.er #3115) on July 19, 2003! Who says nerds never find love?
Mine does that already. Maybe I need bigger fans.
A 23W fluorescent light bulb is as bright as a traditional 100W bulb. That's a savings of 77%.
How do I know? Well, let's see... *looks at his lamp* 23W, and I have another one that's nice in the kitchen where it replaces two 60W bulbs.
-uso.
Dreams, dreams, don't doubt dreams, dreaming children's dreaming dreams. Sailor Moon SS
(Imagine that, though: a computer that would glow different colors based on how much of its processing power was being used. When it turned red, you'd know that a crash was imminent.)
Wow, here you see the model of computers that the man of the street has: the higher you rev the CPU engine, the more likely it is to fail. No wonder people can't figure out the connection between bad software and system crashes.
The major problem I see is: "How many blondes does it take to change a light emitting diode?" just doesn't seem as funny.
---
Lousy rotten karmic retribution.
The Dark Sucker Theory
For years, it has been believed that electric bulbs emit light,
but recent information has proved otherwise. Electric bulbs don't
emit light; they suck dark. Thus, we call these bulbs Dark Suckers.
The Dark Sucker Theory and the existence of dark suckers prove
that dark has mass and is heavier than light.
First, the basis of the Dark Sucker Theory is that electric bulbs
suck dark. For example, take the Dark Sucker in the room you are in.
There is much less dark right next to it than there is elsewhere. The
larger the Dark Sucker, the greater its capacity to suck dark.
Dark Suckers in the parking lot have a much greater capacity to suck
dark than the ones in this room.
So with all things, Dark Suckers don't last forever. Once they are
full of dark, they can no longer suck. This is proven by the dark spot
on a full Dark Sucker.
A candle is a primitive Dark Sucker. A new candle has a white wick.
You can see that after the first use, the wick turns black, representing
all the dark that has been sucked into it. If you put a pencil next to
the wick of an operating candle, it will turn black. This is because
it got in the way of the dark flowing into the candle. One of the
disadvantages of these primitive Dark Suckers is their limited range.
There are also portable Dark Suckers. In these, the bulbs can't
handle all the dark by themselves and must be aided by a Dark Storage
Unit. When the Dark Storage Unit is full, it must be either emptied
or replaced before the portable Dark Sucker can operate again.
Dark has mass. When dark goes into a Dark Sucker, friction from
the mass generates heat. Thus, it is not wise to touch an operating
Dark Sucker. Candles present a special problem as the mass must travel
into a solid wick instead of through clear glass. This generates a
great amount of heat and therefore it's not wise to touch an operating
candle.
Also, dark is heavier than light. If you were to swim just below
the surface of the lake, you would see a lot of light. If you were to
slowly swim deeper and deeper, you would notice it getting darker and
darker. When you get really deep, you would be in total darkness. This
is because the heavier dark sinks to the bottom of the lake and the
lighter light floats at the top. The is why it is called light.
Finally, we must prove that dark is faster than light. If you were
to stand in a lit room in front of a closed, dark closet, and slowly
opened the closet door, you would see the light slowly enter the closet.
But since dark is so fast, you would not be able to see the dark leave
the closet.
Next time you see an electric bulb, remember that it is a Dark Sucker.
Choose yer poison: Prophets or Profits
I keep seeing people say this, but it just isn't true. The reason stuff from the 50's seems to be well-built and last forever is because the crap is already broken and gone. All that's left is the good stuff. In another 53 years, nobody will remember the $40 VCRs that died in two years. But there will be people hanging onto commercial video-editing decks that really were built to last. And everyone will run around saying things like "i wish they built things as well as they did back in 2003!"
I think it will be General Electrics and Philips and
one or two East Asian companies that get the new
lighting market.
- Incandescent bulbs are about 1% efficient (3% for halogen IIRC); the other 99% is heat.
- LEDs are less than twice as efficient as incandescent (light output of a 60W LED = light output of a 100W incandescent).
- But LEDs don't get very hot.
Where is the rest of the energy going, if not heat?
The sad part is, in the article they make a comment that one of there patents (pending I believe) was so broad that it would include a patent violation everytime an artist mixed to colors of paint. And the fact that that small company has two in house patent attorneys for more BOGUS patents!!!!
Sherm
If i had mod points I'd mod you up... I looked at your calculations and they seemed very accurate. I pay around 10 cents per kilowatt with tax so I save even more money.
It's sad that only emotional posts with half-truths and myths get modded up the most. This is true for my posts as well.
Hmmm... Pie...
Dark suckers pull the darkness out of the room and leave the light and fit in normal light fixtures. When they are full of dark and no longer suck it in, they turn greyish (since they are full of the darkness) and we replace them.
dave
Here's some basic chemistry:
3(H2) + (O3) -> 3(H2O)
It basically says that leaked hydrogen + ozone equals water. It's extremely easy for hydrogen to leak despite the best precautions. It's not uncommon for cars to leak gasoline, especially when refilling the tank, so expect a large number of hydrogen leaks.
Hydrogen is light, so leaked hydrogen will go directly to the upper atmosphere where it will react with ozone.
Widespread hydrogen use essentially means that the hole in the ozone will get bigger.
We shouldn't exchange one problem for another. What we really need are good long lasting fast charging environmentally friendly batteries. With such batteries, and the right technologies, it's possible to generate completely clean electrical cars.
The Fire Dept in Livermore CA claims it has the worlds oldest light bulb. It's a 4 watt night light that's left on all the time, and has been burning for 103+ years.
The article is slightly incorrect in its history. Edison's original light bulbs were designed for DC power. Because of that they also had very long lives (AC is what causes the filament to break)-- in the decades!!! In fact, very recently some museum firehouses had these lightbulbs pass the 100 year old mark still (very dimmly) glowing.
LED lighting could resurrect the old idea of having a DC line in houses. The only reason it's never been implemented is to make light-bulbs work well, you would still need >60V DC and that's a fatal shock risk. If houses got a "safe-ish" 20V DC line, we wouldn't have an average of 40 transformers per household (think about how many little things you have which require transformers).
Actually, the remarkable thing about the Hindenburg "disaster" was that it wasn't that much of a disaster by modern standards. Most of the people on board survived. There were only 36 casualties
Does that include your post?
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
The railroad industry is already replacing crossing light bulbs with arrays of LEDs. The typical application divides the round shape into 4 'pizza slice' quarters that are separate panels. The redundancy is such that even if one of them goes out completely, the other 3 are still working. Also, if one of the panels experiences substantial individual LED failures, it can be swapped out, leaving the others in place. As the article alludes, local governments are beginning to apply the same reasoning to traffic lights as well. In an application where the cost of the bulb pales in comparison to the labor to replace it, and the legal exposure should it fail, this one's a no-brainer.
[100% ISO 646 Compliant]
SVM, ERGO MONSTRO.
No conventional battery will compare to the storage density of using a chemical reaction. That's why electric cars have had so many problems getting adopted, there is no easy way to store enough energy without going to chemical reactions. Just in case you were not aware.
What does Hydrogen powered vehicles have to do with alternative lighting solutions??? /.
nothing!!
at least not enough to get a mention in the same front page article on
let's try to get the a.d.d. under control guys, seriously!
Consumer-grade light bulbs are designed to be cheap and to occupy a reasonable spot on the lifetime/efficiency curve. There is no conspiracy to force you to buy inferior, shorter-life bulbs.
You can get long-life bulbs if you want; they are dim and yellowish, and they waste even more power than regular bulbs. Seeing as how the total-cost-of-ownership for a run-of-the-mill bulb is already about 5% bulb and 95% electricity, they're a terrible idea for most this is a really bad idea. In a word, long-life bulbs suck.
Bulbs from the 40s and earlier weren't any better-made, they were just less efficient - and the ones that did burn out (i.e., 99.9999% of them) were tossed. Naturally the few that are left look like "miracle bulbs" - you shouldn't let them color your ideas about product quality. In this case, those bulbs are still around because they sucked.
....try to avoid using Light Emitting EPROMs, a problem I have had a few times in the past.
Basically, if you plug an EPROM into your circuit breadboard backwards after reprogramming it, it becomes a light emittind EPROM for a short period of time. It's hell on the firmware inside the EPROM and a strongly discouraged practice.
And quite expensive, even in this day with large quantities of cheap used EPROMs available on eBay.
A Good Intro to NetBS
About an hour ago I had a discussion with my father about how LED or fluorescent lamps probably do not save as much power as advertised. Before you start talking about how little power gets converted to visible light in a normal light bulb, let me explain this further:
An incandescent light bulb is an ordinary resistor, which means that the current it draws from the net is in phase with voltage and sinus in shape.
LED and those little flourescent lamps are different. They need a rectifier to work (or are rectifiers themselves). This means that the current they draw is some ugly shape that only remotely resembles sinus. This means that this current contains a large proportion of higher harmonics (e.g. current that has 100, 150, 200, etc. Hz, ask Mr. Fourier). While your house meter may show less used kWh, these higher harmonics will cause bigger losses at your local transformer. Why? Because losses in transformer core rise with the square of frequency.
Computers with their switching power supplies already cause a lot of this kind of problems. If everyone would begin using LED lamps it would get much worse and power savings would not be that significant (they would only move from your house to transformers and power stations)
Parent post disregards the quality of light perspective, the ease of acquisition of different bulb types and the difficulty of fitting fluorescents into existing elegant lampshades.
Unfortunately, no. A zeppelin is a rigid body aircraft. A blimp is like a closed baloon with a passenger compartment and control structures.
My other first post is car post.
Yikes!
The aluminum powder and iron oxide together compose what is known as "thermite". A very hot-burning mixture which was once used to weld railroad rails and other very large chunks of iron/steel together that were too big to weld using normal welding torches.
1 to change the light bulb and to post that the light bulb has been changed
... another 6 to condemn those 6 as anal-retentive
14 to share similar experiences of changing light bulbs and how the light bulb could have been changed differently
7 to caution about the dangers of changing light bulbs
27 to point out spelling/grammar errors in posts about changing light bulbs
53 to flame the spell checkers
41 to correct spelling/grammar flames
6 to argue over whether it's "lightbulb" or "light bulb"
2 industry professionals to inform the group that the proper term is "lamp"
15 know-it-alls who claim *they* were in the industry, and that "light bulb" is perfectly correct
156 to email the participant's ISPs complaining that they are in violation of their "acceptable use policy"
109 to post that this forum is not about light bulbs and to please take this discussion to a lightbulb forum
203 to demand that cross posting to hardware forum, off-topic forum, and lightbulb forum about changing light bulbs be stopped
111 to defend the posting to this forum saying that we all use light bulbs and therefore the posts *are* relevant to this forum
306 to debate which method of changing light bulbs is superior, where to buy the best light bulbs, what brand of light bulbs work best for this technique and what brands are faulty
27 to post URL's where one can see examples of different light bulbs
14 to post that the URL's were posted incorrectly and then post the corrected URL's
3 to post about links they found from the URL's that are relevant to this group which makes light bulbs relevant to this group
33 to link all posts to date, quote them in their entirety including all headers and signatures, and add "Me too"
12 to post to the group that they will no longer post because they cannot handle the light bulb controversy
19 to quote the "Me too's" to say "Me three"
4 to suggest that posters request the light bulb FAQ
44 to ask what is a "FAQ"
4 to say "didn't we go through this already a short time ago?"
143 to say "do a Google search on light bulbs before posting questions about light bulbs",
43 to post "In Soviet Russia we dont change light bulbs",
67 to reply "You insensitive clod, I prefer candles!" and
1 forum lurker to respond to the original post 6 months from now and start it all over again
Tah Dah! Mod me up, Scotty.
There is a reason that LEDs will win beyond simply being better and more efficent. Mercury based lights are being phased out. By 2007 they will be banned in Europe. Xenon is the main alternative to continue with a flourence source. It is too expensive and too hard to use in a mass release. I am currently building new backlights for AMLCD moniters using LEDs and have seen what people have. Lumileds has a great white, but is a bit expensive, while ISP of Korea is not as good but very cheap. But for a white backlight, who needs a single led? Using 2 green, a blue and a red LED array, you can mix pure white light that looks real and is even adjustable. You can take it from red to green to blue and mix and match almost all colours. The mixer also makes it possible to use a single strip of LEDs in a light guide, like most high end laptops have. The backlight can now shrink dramatically, and will become significantly cheaper soon. There was some patent mess and it has been finally cleaned up, lowering prices 30% across the board in days. One last thing to consider is that the efficency of LEDs has been following Moore's law. If it holds true, with in a year it will trash tradtional sources.
I'd say more, but my guild is raiding.
If a company makes lighting out of LEDs, expecially a patent abusing scum company like Light Kinetics, failure will be a design feature. The control circuit will die, or some other required part will go away so that you will have to buy another one.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
But since you do not even attempt to citate it , I will then forget this phenomenon even exist and people research it...
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I think the poster was trying to imply that in the event of a leak (sheer off the regulator?), the 5000psi gas could cause the tank to be propelled at high speed (400mph?) towards you.
I really love this quote:
"They have a secret sauce that will be very interesting if it's unique and really good," says Fan at Kopin, who has had discussions with Luminus. "But [with LEDs], there are many ways to get to the same end, and very few innovative technologies that can block everybody off."
It shows how much patents spur innovation.
Pattern of a metacarpus with digits curled with the exception of the digit between the index digit and the digitus annularis, which is extended in a plane to the main structure of the aforementioned metacarpus.
SCO to Hell
Is this just due to the low quality of commercial fluorescents? I'd love to switch over and save some cash at home, if I wasn't going to burn up the savings in headache medicine.
Things are more like they are now than they ever were before.
Answer: Zero. Three companies try, but don't succeed.
Background: They need so long to handle their ligitations (two lawyers and >100 patents pending, 'nuff said) that ordinary people stop wondering and continue buying their old bulb brands.
Joachim
People don't write Manifestos any more -- what's going on in this world? [Frank Zappa]
By traditional, you are referring to the Sun? Or do you mean the Texas cowboy tradition? Like, wearing leather chaps and always getting your man.
However on NPR the other day they had a fascinating interview with this engineer who was developing cheap, sustainable light sources for 3rd world nations. Effectively he has solar panels hooked up to LEDs. They don't burn out like incandescent ones do and use very little energy. Further they are focused such that the light is more useful.
He's apparently been developing these kits and then sending them to many regions of the world where people don't have light. If you think about it, a lot of studying and education take place in the off hours when you aren't working. In these places if it is dark, this limits how people can improve their condition. Thus this is a fantastic way to really affect quality of life in these places at very little cost.
Ideally these LED sources could provide sustainable light in many places, such as rest stops, with far less maintenance and the like. The "white" light LEDs have only been out a while but already are really revolutionizing a lot. When they go mainstream for regular lighting, then as the article points out, it will really be a very good thing. It'll be cheaper and use less energy. Already most cities are converting their traffic lights over.
I started using LEDs for light when the climbing lights from places like Black Diamond came out with them. Much superior to traditional head lamps. I knew then that it was just a matter of time. So I'd really encourage people to convert. The downside right now are adaptors and then nice cheap reading lamps at places like Walmart. But it is just a matter of time. (I hate how hot my reading lamps are - I'm always afraid of falling asleep and bumping them and causing a fire -- LEDs really avoid this problem. I'd buy them if they were readily available)
"LoveOO writes Boston.com has a story about three companies which are trying to replace the Light bulb."
How many companies does it take to change a light bulb?
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
i bought LED lights tro replace some of my household lights. i bought them from this place... kinda of expensive to start off with, but, i love takeing something thats highly dissposable and replaceing it with something that will last for 10+ years. the 11 led versions are kinda dim for anything but difuse background light but some of the ones that are larger than that are good for reading lights and porch lights.
no sig today, come back tomorrow
hmmm.. link didnt come through... https://www.netdisty.net/ds/DEC-G11/default.asp
no sig today, come back tomorrow
"...The company holds 19 patents related to the control of LED lighting systems, and has filed for more than 100 additional patents. "We spend about a million dollars a year filing patents," says chief executive George Mueller. The company has two full-time patent lawyers in-house, and also works with the Boston firm of Wolf, Greenfield & Sacks."
Little or no competition here for some time to come.
Why spend $100 for an LED light bulb which uses only 40 % less power (according to the article), when you can install a Compact Flourescent for $5 and save 80 % of the power?
Most of the light bulbs in my house are 12 Watt CFs (as bright as 60 W bulbs). They last a very long time and cost less that $5 each.
Follow up here about Organic Light Emitting Diodes (OLEDs), the REAL future of lighting.
Article has a brief bit about the beginning of OLED technology, which started with a princeton professor making a pickle light glow green.
-n
Hydrogen is also used as a rocket propellant by NASA.
Maybe because though it is called an LED, I understand that the white ones are significantly different. Just because a low output red LED lasts for many years, does this history apply to the white ones(higher energy) as well?
So now we know the answer to the burning question: How many companies does it take to replace a lightbulb.
Three. One to use LED's, one to ???, and one to profit.
Pound! Bang! Bin! Bash! is this a shell script or a Batman comic?
Any reaction that involves the cretion of CO2 is going to produce CO but either way CO2 is still "not good" its a reen hosue gas for gods sake and your car makes far more co2 then it does co. At anyrate in the cracking of CH4 you get and equilibirium between H20 H and CO2 but when you make CO2 you can still get CO. The kicker is all this uses electricity so unless you are using nuclear power(radioactive waste), water power (um changing river patterns), solar (VOC chemical hazardous waste-VOC makes it an air polutant), wind (ok yeah right...) to eletrolosize water its not going to be cleaner then gas, and typically relies on fossil fuels no matter how you look at it.
Sheesh. I am so sick of people waiting for technology to solve all their problems for them. If you don't want to fill the gas tank so often, DRIVE LESS. If you don't want to change light bulbs so often, USE FEWER LIGHTS. It's so simple, even a slashdotter could understand it.
Did they really build a "better" mousetrap if people couldn't easily dispose of the mouse without touching it?
They must be all blonde
LED's can not be 4 times as efficient as fluorescents, since fluorescents are 80% efficient.
I'm an architect and have worked a bit with different light technologies. The LED works OK right now, but has a very narrow spectrum, even more narrow than flourescent. That is why it is so energy efficient, but also why it makes everyone look so terrible when they are under it. People look blue or extremely pale, basically zombified. For some applications like a utility closet this is fine. IF you need to see color forget it, use incandescent. Also, another advantage for LED is vibration for places like in factories where vibration fries light bulbs. It is also safe and will not explode in shards of glass, so is good for use in dangerous environments. The best application for LED is for lighting small ornamental things or for lighting effects. So far I haven't seen any floods or spots of decent size to be used for anything major.
Old magnetic-ballast fluorescent lights flicker at 60Hz, but even so, if it's highly perceptible and annoying, it's probably because of a crummy fixture, a crummy bulb, or a ballast on it's last legs.
Newer fluorescent systems (including 90%+ of the compact fluorescents intended for residential installation) use electronic ballasts that operate at 20KHz-40KHz, and have zero perceptible flicker.
Additionally, you can't go wrong with nuclear power if you're looking at least polluting power sources. Many people look at solar as if its some sort of panacea, but the amount of energy that goes into making a tile is far more than you'll ever get out of it -- turns out that at the end of the day the thing everybody's been complaining about is the best option because all the pollution is contained.
Let's see some extraordinary proof for each of your claims, including your sources (URLs to the product manufacturer information which gives energy costs and material costs will do, Enron, First Energy, and PR firms will NOT.) and any critical assumptions you made.
I want to see the math. An Excel spreadsheet with the text cut and pasted here and a URL pointing at the file will do if you don't feel like entering it by hand. Excel 97 probably has the best chance at getting read by Windows and Open Source spreadsheets.
IIRC, that second claim comes straight out of an energy industry-funded study that was exposed as bogus within days of when the media feeding frenzy started, and one of the major problems was that the math was done wrong. They wanted the feeding frenzy to eat the nuclear power movement. It ate a chunk of their credibility instead.
We don't expect to see quite as much proof as we would if you asserted that Bush's foriegn policy is made by alien grays or that the Easter Bunny is real But you can't depend on "everybody knows" here. Just because your assertions are contrarian and counterintuitive doesn't make them right.
And YOU get to "do the math". I'm not the one making the extraordinary claims, you are. Prove them or retract them. Where did you think you were, an AOL chatroom?
I don't believe you actually did the math, I believe you're simply parroting some claims based on energy or conventional light bulb industry press releases you heard off Rush Limbaugh.
Tech Public Policy stuff
The Department of Energy already has regulations on the efficiency of fluorescent lamp ballasts and other electrical devices.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
My guess is that this was Radium paint http://pearl1.lanl.gov/periodic/elements/88.html
Great stuff, still have some old watches that have nice glowing radium numbers on the face.
Of course, the radioactivty was linked to increased cancer rates in the watch painters and others that worked with it. Oh well.
I mean, a 100W bulb is usually rated for about 800 hours of life - if left on 24/7, that's 33 days - about a month. Maybe if you turn 'em off when you're not using 'em, they'll last a little longer...
I've read Edison's light bulb still works (i.e. they turn it on in the museum tour) because there is more of a vacuum in it than the ones produced today. Is this true?
Requiring via Federal law or administrative regulation light sources sold in the USA to meet energy efficiency standards that stock incandescent bulbs can not meet is a good start. Or simply setting tariffs on them which would make them cost-competitive with LEDs.
If energy conservation is necessary, we can't let the marketplace decide about it. Though I think consumers will be pleasantly surprised after buying them when their light bills drop and replacement is a rare thing.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Q: How many flies does it take to screw in a light bulb?
A: Only two, but the real question is, how did they get in there in the first place?
Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
Chances are that youre not going to get very far on hydrogen gas even if its reletively highly compressed. You would need a huge tank to get anywhere. Fine, if you only have to drive 3 miles to get to school or work or what ever its great, but some people have to drive more than that just to get to a gas station.
Liquid hydrogen needs to be kept at a certain temperature to stay liquid. Unfortunately this is not a good thing for automobiles. Either you need to keep your fuel tank refridgerated somewhere in the neighborhood of -250 Celsius or you will need to keep refilling your tank every few days because of expanding hydrogen leaking out. Using very efficient insulation can help reduce the amount of leakage but there is no way to completely stop it since refridgeration is not a likely solution for small cars.
Hydrogen still needs to be extracted from something else, you can't just go out and harvest h2 from an h2 farm. You can get it from water, the atmosphere, fossil fuels and probably hundreds of other sources, but it still has to be produced and this requires installation of a whole new infrastructure.
Now filling your tank might not be so bad once an infrastructure is in place. Seeing as how the entire system, from production to your tank, needs to be highly pressurized (for example, tires on a car probably wont be pressurized more than 40 bar, a hydrogen tank might be somewhere in the neighborhood of 300 bar.). Your tank will probably be filled in a few seconds and you may not even have to step out of your car. There will probably be a technician or a robot for that task. Corporations probably don't want stupid people operating equipment that is under very high pressure and transferring a somewhat volitile substance.
As much as I would love to see hydrogen become the main fuel source for automobiles I don't see it happening any time soon in North America. First it would need a requirement from the US Congress which would require manufacturers to start production of h2 powered cars by some date. Most auto manufacturers will bitch and moan about how that isn't possible and start cranking them out probably 3 years after the mandate. Of course the will be pushed back to accomodate them. On a good note, for once the cars may actually not be ugly as previous alternative fuel cell cars were if we can take note from what BMW is doing. They don't seem to have any problems stuffing hybrid gas/hydrogen engines into thier already ugly cars (note: this is not flamebait for BMW design. I love BMW's, I own a BMW and I hate Chris Bangles mutilation of perfectly beautiful cars.). After the car manufacturers get thier word, in comes oil cartels complaining that the world will end if they stop using cars with oil, blah blah blah...
And after all that is said and done a distrobution infrastructure needs to be put in place. Definately not an easy task.
Didn't mean to rant so long, just came out that way. If youre still reading this, all I have to say is wow and I hope you werent bored
~Tommy Boomfiger http://www.gotapex.com/forums
"Imagine that, though: a computer that would glow different colors based on how much of its processing power was being used. When it turned red, you'd know that a crash was imminent."
Yeah, because EVERYONE knows that computer crashes are caused by all of it's processing power being used. Wait... why is my laptop turning re89p;oasdfgihhnjjw
NO CARRIER
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Batteries are on the underside, and they lower the center of gravity significantly.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
A lot of places are using LED's like this. I think the biggest benefit to the city is in the maintenance. The old incandescent bulbs need to be replaced quite frequently, AND they must be changed on a regular basis, rather than just "waiting for them to die". Dead "Green Lights" are generally bad for traffic flow, and dead "Reds" are, well, deadly.
Even if you only budget a few minutes for a crew to change the light bulbs at each intersection every year, the labour costs are probably a lot more than any energy costs for the light itself.
I used to change my porch light every month
It sounds like maybe you just needed a heavy-duty bulb. I learned about these when I used to work on cars. You know the lights that mechanics use that have a metal cylinder and a wire screen covering the bulb; the ones you hook on your hood?
When I first got it, I screwed regular bulbs into it, and they kept burning out. I thought maybe something was wrong with it, but the guy at the auto-parts store said "you need a heavy duty bulb". I put that in. No problems after that.
Heavy-duty incandescents cost a little more, but it's not ridiculous.
What causes the early burn-out?
Vibration.
Now, it's possible that the placement of your fixture is such that slamming the door causes vibration that jars the bulb. Ordinary bulbs just can't tolerate much vibration.
Flourescent is probably more vibration tolerent simply because you don't have those delicate tungsten filaments; but if the fixture was vibrating, I wouldn't be surprised if that impacted the life of flourescents somehow.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
I heard Gentoo was working on a new light bulb design. People could roll their own & optimize the bulb for any given socket.
Need to re-read your facts, violent crime has increased as gun ownership has decreased. Conversely in areas of the US where *legal* gun ownership increases, violent crime decreases.
You also forgot to mention the appalling reduction of rights in the Britain scenario.
Regardless of the accuracy of your numbers, you actually want to suggest that we trade trade liberty for perceived safety ( and governmental control )?
You sound like a socialist to me...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
On the other hand, I don't understand the "how" of this dog ever catching a mouse -- this guy would pursue any prey barking and with floppy ears flapping: he was not big in the stealth department. Cats, however, are real killing machines. They are quiet and the "pounce" on their prey.
I found the title and the first sentence more than a little misleading. I expected to read about three different ways of producing light. Something like new LEDs, that strange way that involves molten sulfer and microwaves, and ...? Instead, the three ways are LEDs, LEDs, and LEDs. Couldn't they have even told us more about three subtly different technologies for producing efficient/cheap LEDs?
from the article....
"You could replace a 100-watt light bulb with a 60-watt LED, and get the same brightness,"
or I can replace that 100 watt lightbulb with a 14 watt CF lamp and get the same brightness.
I'm all for getting rid of the old inefficient lightbulb, but please let's use something that is efficient and aim for better efficiency instead of just making more expensive/ slightly better lighting...
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
What are you supposed to do if you had already replaced your lights with compact fluorescents?
I figure it took him about 10 years to make his way to the tails of the bell curve of all the incandescents in his house. Besides, if he thinks 15 W compact fluorescent is enough for a living room, 25 W for a kitchen, that dude is pretty parsimonious with light. Fluorescents are a big saving over incandescents, but the 4:1 watt ratio is pushing it a bit -- you are going to be a bit dim after the substitution.
It shouldn't be a problem. Many LED displays are already "multiplexed", which means that only one segment is on at any given time. By rapidly switching from one segment to the next, it fools your eye into believing that all of the active segments are on.
Mea navis aericumbens anguillis abundat
I heard that the average Slashdot post wastes far more energy than the energy-saving tips conatined therein will ever save over the entire lifetime of the post.
as many others have pointed out, hydrogen is not a renewable resource for powering cars. but biodiesel (B20/B100) and ethanol (E85) are both made from vegetables. check out these links for info:
biodiesel.org
e85fuel.com
20% biodiesel / 80% regular diesel (B20) can be used in any diesel engine w/o modification. 100% biodiesel (B100) can be used in most new cars, and even in older cars if the rubber parts of the fuel line are replaced with biodiesel-compatible materials. rudolf diesel, the inventor of the diesel engine, used peanut oil in his prototypes.
10% ethanol / 90% gasoline is already being used as a replacement for MTBE. again, no modification needed to the car. 85% ethanol mixture can be used if the carbeurator is adjusted and the rubber parts of the fuel line are replaced. they even make "flexible-fuel vehicles" (FFVs) which can take either straight gas or 85% ethanol (E85). early model-T fords used ethanol, until petrol became more cost effective.
there's also a group (liquidsolar.org) which will convert diesel cars to run of straight vegatable oil (SVO), typically recycled from restaurants.
there's lots of renewable alternatives folks. write your representatives!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I wonder if anybody is doing failure analysis?
I betcha the City would gladly send the bulb off to someone in return for a replacement.
If interested, reply to me and I'll print it off and drop it off at City hall.
Sometimes, analyzing a part that failed in the field can yield useful insights into the failure process.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Well, white ones aren't. Colored ones can be about as efficient, but they don't throw enough light per unit cost right now so they don't even compete.
In no way are they more efficient, let alone 4X as efficient.
Where do you get your info?
Expensive, but what do you want for a solution capable of solving the problem for a few hundred megayears? We've run out of cheap solutions.
Tech Public Policy stuff
1. Find out how many edison bulbs were manufactured, ever.
2. Find out how many are still working.
3. Grab a calculator, and do some quick math to figure out what percentage that is.
But seriously-- there are going to be counterexamples on both sides. Some things today are made to break. Some things back then were made well. The converse to both is also true. But the trend is still valid. Crap breaks and goes away, good stuff (AND bad stuff that was waaaaaay out on the edge of the bell curve for reliability) lasts long enough for people to mistakenly assume everything comtemporary to it was well made.
I think you failed to think things through all the way with your post. If Edison bulbs were good, and lasted this long, they are exactly the sort of thing I was referring to.. If they had broken, and been forgotten about, you would have posted about something else that still worked as an example of "good things from back then." Your dad's slide rule, maybe-- or a microscope you bought at an antique store.
are already implemented about 2 years ago in the far-eastern country of Singapore where I live. Check out: http://www.aas.com.sg/features/archive/otr03003.ht m. We have a highly developed road system and since the shift to using LED lights, I don't remember seeing a light that's out. The brightness if the LEDs are also much higher than the old bulb versions, which tend to degrade over time.
www.rexguo.com - Technologist + Designer
Most modern bulbs are filled with a nitrogen/argon mixture; no attempt is made to maintain any vacuum at all. The argon helps resist filament erosion and keeps the bulb from getting as gray and dim as the bulb ages. The nitrogen is cheap and non-reactive.
If Edison's original light bulbs still work, it's probably because they're very low in efficiency / they're run very gently - either of which amounts to the same thing in an incandescent bulb. If you run a bulb on a dimmer switch, and turn it down until it only makes a miserable candle-like orange glow, it will pretty much last indefinitely.
brushing my teeth and bathing. When can we get rid of these as well? Damn this living. damn it all to hell!
'mmmmmmmmm.... forbidden donut'
LEDs last a long long time, but they do get dimmer over time. Normally the "lifetime" figure is based on a 50% loss in brightness.
Also, white LEDs depend on the use of phosphors to change blue light into yellow/red for warmer color. Unfortunately, the phosphors wear out faster than the LEDs, which causes the light to shift in color over time.
-Mark
If a fluorescent bulb is 80% efficient, then that means 20% of the energy is wasted as heat. A bulb that was 95% efficient would waste only 5% of the energy, and would be 4 times as efficient.
It's just math, you know. Or maybe it's just semantics...
Are only symptoms of consumerism gone mad. We start businesses on the basis of demand not stability. Software has become another example, obsolete within the time it takes to perfect it. Our economy is a false dream and will eventually need to be changed from this model. Services have become more expensive for this reason and disposable goods cheap. That is why off sourcing high tech services is happening. The goods sold cannot pay for the software services needed. The same thing will happen with all goods because of consumerism. The Menonites are right, consumerism will ruin us socially. Smart old farts! They have known this for over 150 years.
OH THE SHAME I fell off the wagon and use sigs again!
petroleum, for the same reasons. It might be nice to run your laptop from a fuel cell for an instant "recharge," but when your fuel cell powered car fills its tanks with methanol you're still filling it with a petroleum product.
You can, of course, make your own, but this requires time, expense and, unltimately, more fuel than you gain from the exercise.
It's that damned Second Law of Thermodynamics. I'm going to write my congressman to have it repealed.
The scary thing is I think I could induce congress to do it.
You use biomass to create your own, of course. A "renewable" energy source. So, tell me, do we have more trees today than we did 500 years ago, or do we, perhaps, have fewer?
We don't have an energy problem. None at all. We have a "Too many rats in the cage" problem, pure and simple.
There is no magic bullet that's going to provide free, consequenceless and limitless energy. Get used to it.
KFG
The UK has much less weather (heat, snow, electrical storms, wind, whatever!) all round than the US. Also much more cabling is underground in the UK so it's better protected when weather does happen.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
You need to go back and read the post you are replying to again. You seem to have missed it completely.
Parent is absolutely correct. To provide the energy needed to extract hydrogen from its low energy molecular state (i.e. add energy to the system) you must run generators. . . on?
If you intend to use a purely catalytic process ( nevermind all the enrgy required to run the process, like pumps and things) you still need to expend a lot of energy mining, refining and producing the catalyst.
Please do not suggest running the process from the energy source produced by the process. You cannot mount a fan powered generator to the front bumper of your car and drive forever.
The hydrogen "economy" is a myth. All the hydrogen on earth is in a low energy state and must have energy added to release it. The Second Law applies to this process.
Hydrogen is a form of energy that may be more useful than other forms for certain things ( you don't want a coal fired laptop for instance), but it requires a net loss of energy to produce it.
That energy will have to come from the same damned place that it comes from right now. Petroleum, coal, hydro, wind, whatever.
TANSTAAFL
KFG
then put a fiber optic cable at the focal point, beam the light down into your office, and focus the light as desired?
granted - not much use for citizens of Seattle, but here in 70 & Sunny every fscking day of the fscking year Los Angeles.. i don't know why that wouldn't provide everyone with cheap light for a great portion of the year?
okay - you need to add computer controlled pointing devices.. but that's a simple matter of giving a tiny computer the pointing angles and using some small motors to move.... a simple PC could generate the pointing angles and then transmit them to all the little computer controlled motors? maybe expensive up front, but would work forever assuming you pointed the fiber input down, away from the sky and covered the dish with a plastic cover.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
Does anyone know what became of those guys who were trying to specially treat tungsten (into a lattice, as I recall it) to force it to radiate mainly in the visible spectrum (as opposed to todays tungsten bulbs, which radiate mostly in the infra-red)?
The idea, IIRC, was that the bulbs would operate much more efficiently, as the energy they would otherwise be radiating as heat would go into generating light.
Could give traditional light bulbs a new lease on life.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Fluorescent lights are headaches in glass tubes. The light is too blue.
I don't care about the electricity cost. I run incandecent and halogen lights exclusively.
Obviously you should ride a bicycle with solar lights.
It works for me.
"Cats like plain crisps"
From the article: "(Imagine that, though: a computer that would glow different colors based on how much of its processing power was being used. When it turned red, you'd know that a crash was imminent.)"
;)
Ya, and we all know that our computers crash when CPU usage gets to 100%
A distinctive mark, characteristic, or sound indicating identity
> LED's are the Grail.
No, they're not. They have good and bad points just like any other lighting technology.
> They are extremely minimalist in raw resources (a
> transistor and a plastic shell that will outlast 5 or 6
> FLUORESCENTS),
And they require an enormous fabrication facility, using many toxic chemicals, to produce. The amount of toxic waste that is produced by a single semiconductor fab is pretty amazing.
> they beat even fluorescents in energy consumption by a
> factor of 4 or more,
Doubtful. I'd like to see some figures for that (for white LEDs specifically). Don't forget to include the efficiency of the power supply.
> solid state so droppage or shock damage are not a factor.
Fair enough. You certainly can damage an LED with physical shock, but they are more durable than glass bulbs. On the other hand, they are much more susceptible to electrical damage than either filament or fluorescent bulbs.
> Color is easy to fix
Not really. While LEDs are getting better, they don't have nearly the color rendering capability of either fluorescent or incandescent lamps.
> LED's are Diodes just like the ones the computer industry
> has been perfecting for decades. The price will fall. A lot.
Actually, LEDs are made on an entirely different process, using entirely different materials than what's used for computer chips. Most LEDs are actually terrible diodes, having a very slow switching speed, for instance.
Essentially all of the cost-reduction in computer chips comes from increased circuit density. There's no economic advantage to making smaller LEDs - the real challenge is making larger LEDs, to allow a greater light output per device.
> Sidenote: All transistors and diodes produces photons as
> a byproduct
No, they don't. You might want to look up how an LED works. Or maybe look up the definition of "band gap".
> Your computer is (depending on its transistor
> density, since the wavelength of the photons are
> dependent on the size of the transistor) currently
> pumping out microwave and radio energy.
RF emission from computers is a consequence of the high frequency switching that occurs in the logic circuits. The size of the transistors has nothing to do with it.
frome nt_lig ht_bulbs.html
http://rabi.phys.virginia.edu/HTW/incandesc
Years ago I heard or read that some incandescent bulbs in Thomas Edison's house are still burning after being turned on back early in the 20th century. Is this true? What are they made of?
From comments that I've received over the web, this story is apparently true. However those bulbs must be operating at reduced power levels and are glowing dimly as a result. There is no magic filament material that can operate indefinitely at yellow-white heat. The life of a filament is determined by how quickly its atoms evaporate (actually sublime) from its surface. Modern tungsten filaments operate at about 2500 C. At that temperature, the filament loses atoms slowly enough that it lives for about 1000 hours. If you were to operate the filament several hundred degrees colder, it would live much, much longer but it wouldn't emit nearly as much light and what light it did emit would be relatively reddish. The design of incandescent bulbs is a trade-off of energy efficiency and operating life. Long-life bulbs are substantially less energy efficient than normal bulbs--you don't have to replace them as often but they cost more to operate. Getting back to Edison's bulbs: they can only live long lives by operating at less than normal temperatures. In that case, they may live a hundred years but have very poor energy efficiencies.
"You could replace a 100-watt light bulb with a 60-watt LED, and get the same brightness,"
Better yet, you could replace a 100 watt light bulb with a 27 watt CF and get the same brightness. For about $5 at your local Target megastore. And it will last for at least five years based on my experience.
I went through my mother's house and replaced several kilowatts worth of standard bulbs with CF's (not all the bulbs in the house, but about 25% of them) and her electricity bill has gone down on average by about $50 per month (keep in mind here in Philadelphia the electricity rate is very high).
Is why people just don't go out and buy the flourescents that use 23w and generate the same light as a 100w bulb. That's a 77% power useage reduction, coupled with a 500% lifespan of the unit for about 200% of the cost. You end up saving more on the energy expenditure than it cost to get the 1 bulb (over the 5-pack you'd otherwise have bought), and they're available at Wal-Mart, Costco, Canadian Tire, etc.
Why buy an LED when we already have better lightbulbs available?
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
One situation to watch: Apple Computer recently filed a patent application for a computer whose exterior would change colors, apparently after Color Kinetics had demonstrated their technology to Apple. "It covers a lot of our technology and a lot of patents we hold," Mueller says.
Check out thinkgeek's Ambient Orb.
discarded [fluorescent] bulbs release approximately 2-4 tons of mercury per year in the United States
Thank goodness! Mercury is not a renewable resource, people. Once we put it all in flourescent bulbs, its gone. So as long as we continue depositiing tons of this stuff into the environment each year, there will be enough for future generations to retrieve for their flourescent bulbs.
As far as zinc-air: zinc is both way too heavy and way too expensive to be a viable vehicle fuel!
Aluminum is much lighter than zinc.
It's been said that if you throw away an aluminum can, it might as well be half full of gasoline, because that's how much energy it takes to smelt aluminum oxide (from bauxite ore).
With that in mind, there are companies that have been working on aluminum-air batteries that will release the energy from aluminum by converting it back into oxide through a fuel-cell like process. It consists of a sandwich of consumable aluminum plates for the anode, a salt solution, and non-consumable yet air permeable plates for the cathodes. As the anodes corrode away, replace them, and return the used plates to a recycle center to be "recharged" by re-smelting them into aluminum metal again. Smelting aluminum is a very energy consuming process (known as the Hall-Heroult reduction process), but it is essentially the aluminum-air battery in reverse (and in massive scale).
Some chemistry know-it-alls might want to put on their thinking caps and calculate how much energy it takes to hydrolize water into hydrogen and oxygen, and how much energy it takes to turn aluminum oxide into aluminum and oxygen, but then factor in the weight vs. power output of an aluminum-air battery and weight vs. power output of a fuel cell + hydrogen storage tank.
For those who just gotta do something now, here is a link that shows you how to roll your own aluminum air battery, and then you can hook a couple in series and get back to the topic of this thread and power some LEDs.
The only problems with them is that they use more electricity if exposed to lots of on-off cycles. Fluorescents are best left on for long periods of time. Also lots of on-off cycles cut down on there lifespan.
I've been meaning to ask about this on an electronics newsgroup. The first issue is the frequency, which for many European devices won't be an issue. The second is the fact that it in N. America, the 220V supply is two-phase, not one-phase. I don't even undersand how two-phase works - according to what I learnt at school about waves at 180 degrees apart, they should combine destructively and result in zero volts. Seeing as I have no idea how two-phase works, I can't even begin to speculate how well it would work with a European device design for 240 V (220-250) single-phase.
"Ahh, good point, but you ahve to admit that it DOES HELP to move the combustion phase farther up the chain - because a power company can use oil or coal much more efficiently than your car can. A gas-fired power plant that produces hydrogen will probably be 5 or so times more efficient than your car is at extracting energy from fuel."
Well aside from the duh (no car burns oil, or coal), why do you assume that bigger is better? Burning is burning, and the principles of energy extraction are the same, regardless of scale. Plus you have to add the losses in the transmission phase, unlike locally produced energy. I suspect that just like TCO, the picture is less clear, than people think.
All true regarding the extraction of hydrogen from natural gas.
The #1 demand for CO2 is for the production of Urea (synthesized by combining CO2 with NH3, Ammonia) for fertilzer, replacing Ammonium Nitrate as the perferred agricultural nitrogen source.
The problem with greenhouse CO2 is that it's being released here and there, lost into the atmosphere. When created in bulk within a closed system, it is actually a valuable and useful gas.
The tungsten filament is replaced with a piece of tungsten machined into a microscopic lattice. When heated, the machined tungsten no longer emits a Planck black-body spectrum. Instead, it now emits more visible light and less infrared light.
Same materials as the existing incandescent bulbs; just being used in a more clever fashion!
Read my post again and try really hard to understand what i wrote.. you didnt catch much the first time.
Not that i expected you to....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
We do have 240V, except it's split 120V-0V-120V about "neutral" which is a grounded conductor within the main distribution panel. That way, even for a 240V circuit, if you touch a "hot" conductor, the human body will only see 120V to ground. Safer.
For high-power devices, water heaters, air conditioning, etc., devices run on 240V which cuts current (wire size, I2R loss) in half.
The reason for all the diming is the crap #14 gauge wiring used on domestic 15 Amp branch circuits. Yes, it will carry 15 Amps safely all day long, but the resistive loss drops enough voltage to be annoying. Reason, penny pinching during contruction, #14 is a few cents cheaper per foot. Oh, and I believe code allow for some insane device count on each branch circuit, like 11 recepticals.
All branch circuits in my home (1903 Victorian) are #12 gauge wire and breakered at 20 Amps. Amazing difference when the vacuum or hair dryer goes on. Plus, it's all in metal conduit which further reduces the inductance of the feed.
This is the first time I've ever seen someone use the word fenestration.
I wouldn't even know what the hell it was if I hadn't listened to Defenstration in high school.
Thanks for a first!
What group of folks might use this in everyday language(don't tell me builders - because I know plenty of those)? Or are you just an okie that's been dying to say that?
after that blackout some of us just lived through,
I love my light bulbs, and I want to keep them
happy. I'm a night owl, with a night schedule,
and sitting in the dark for hours on end, with
only the radio for company was a NIGHTMARE! I
even began imagining that this must be what Hell
is like, or at least what it would be like for me!
Improve light bulbs, fine! Make a similar product
to do the job better, fine! But don't even joke
about taking away my light, again... please.
Me no likey dark.
What kind of slashdot editor can read 'alot' without noticing? Why, Michael of course!
...REPLACING IT!!!
The main reason I don't use more CF in my house is that:
1) the ceiling fixtures in the bedrooms and dining room are all on dimmer circuits,
2) the reading lamps are mostly halogen, and
3) of the remaining lights, most are either unsuitable for CF (enclosed, recessed or outside where cold and moisture are a problem) or used so infrequently that CF provides no long-term savings.
There are very few lights I *can* replace with CF. I would expect the LED-based lights to be safe for use on dimmer circuits (whether they actually dim or not) and with any luck they'll be packaged for outdoor use.
The lights I would most like to replace with LEDs are the tail and signal lights in my car and motorcycle. Most of the public transit busses in my city use LED lighting and they are quite bright even in the daylight.
I keep reading this every once in a while, but it is simply not true. This myth probably started when solar cells were first being produced, but nowadays, the production has become much more efficient. At present, it takes about 5 years for a typical solar cell to win back the energy cost of production. That number will come down even more as large scale production becomes a reality. A lot of companies are investing in more energy-efficient production, since lower production cost means higher margin, or a lower price to beat the competition. Check out this link for a recent study on future life-cycle cost of solar cells. The worst case assumption is that payback time in the Netherlands (which does not exactly have a warm and sunny climate) by 2010 will be less than 4 years, while the base case would be 1.3 years.
That really sucks. Just like razors. Bahh.........
Slashdot community, please notice: I am looking for a girlfriend.
Nave H. Weiss
am I the only one who has gotten a LOT of ads for the LED Flashlight at the top of /. since this article first posted?
Jeremy Logan's Website.
That light bulb STILL WORKS. Its contemporaries are all burned out. Thus, you point at it and say "look how amazing things were in 1902!" while 99.9999% of all the other lightbulbs from 1902 are long gone.
To reiterate....
The crap goes away. The good stuff lasts, and everyone will point and oo and ah. Just like you just did.
with the stuff that screws into a socket. Full spectrum flourescents have been around for a long time. Shame on you for not doing your homework on alternative forms of lightbulb :p
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
You DID have to pay a premium for it. If you look at the cost of your grandparents' mixer in relation to their total income, you'll find that it's a MUCH larger chunk of change than it is today.
According to this link the conversion factor between 1950s dollars and 2003 dollars is 0.131.
To be absolutely clear, this means that the $219 *commercial grade* mixer of today would have cost a whopping $28.69 in 1950. Not knowing what they paid for their 1950s mixer, I can't do the conversion the other way-- but I think you'll find that they cost at least as much as that commercial mixer does.
Of course, if you can't live without the 50's charm, you'll have to stick with antiques.
The point is, this is just how some stuff was made back then. Please try to understand that crap was made back then, too. You've just never seen it.
You are very right. My lack of examples is not proof. In addition, I agree with you that more crap is being made today. But my disagreement is mainly with the suggestion that *only* crap is being made today.
Sadly, I was not alive then. I have, however, just checked with a grandfather (not my own-- he's not exactly handy just now). The price of a sunbeam mixer in 1950 would have been around $20, by his memory. Or about $150 today. Not quite as bad as I expected, but you can see that they definitely paid a premium for stuff back then compared to the price of crap at target today. The only example of historical crap from my personal experience is an old flashlight I found out in my grandfathers' barn-- the thing was rusted clean through. I suspect the maglight i bought 10 years ago will look much like it does today in another 40.
There does exist a new market today. Consumers have asked for cheaper shit, and cheaper shit is being made in larger quantities and in a wider variety of products than it used to be. But the quality stuff is still being made, at comparable prices.
Yellow is NOT a primary color.
The only pure colors your eyes can sense are specific frequencies of light that are red, GREEN, and blue.
People tend to think yellow is somehow primary in general because the first place they learn about "primary colors" is in grade school art class where they are learning about the primary colors of pigments, which are subtractive, not additive.
Strictly, the primary colors in the additive model are not "red, yellow and blue" but Magenta, Yellow, and Cyan. Incidentally those are the "secondary" colors in the additive model, while conversely Red, Green, and Blue are the "secondary" colors in the subtractive model.
Go figure.
FYI, the meaning of "subtractive" colors is that pigments applied to surfaces can only lessen the amount of reflected light, so they are characterized by which colors the absorb. Cyan absorbs the red visible frequencies, Magenta the green, and Yellow the blue. Those subtractive primary colors are only "primary" in the sense that an artist uses those exclusively for screentoning to get any mix of color he desires on paper.
But we still only care about the light that's reflected by the pigment, of which only red, green, and blue are actually primaries.
Yellow is an illusion. It's the simulataneous stimulation of red and green sensory cells in the eyes, which can be triggered by mixing red and green light additively, or by a strong true yellow source which has the side effect of stimulating the red/green cells to a lesser degree. (you can imagine that these cells respond to a RANGE of frequencies of light, but they center around R, G, and B.) Because they overlap, we can sense colors in between them in this fashion.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
While hydrogen (H2) *can* be produced by electrolysis from water, this is not currently done on any meaningful scale as hydrogen can much more cheaply be produced from natural gas (CH4).
The reaction
CH4 + 2 H2O ==> 4 H2 + CO2
is exothermic, meaning it releases more energy than it consumes. Yes, the process does employ a catalyst (platinum, IIRC) - but if you look up the definition of a catalyst, you will see that it by definition is not consumed in the process.
Gentlemen! You can't fight in here, this is the War Room!