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On behalf of all A-10 lovers, I must object. THIS is one ugly aircraft! And Godbless those engineers who made it so! *grin*

Submited on september 6, 2003:

Northrop, working with the Pentagon and NASA sucessfully tested a "quiet" supersonic flight wednesday at California's Edwards Air Force Base. In the tests, an F-5E aircraft with a modified nose section flew supersonically through the test range, shortly thereafter, an unmodified F-5E flew supersonically through the same airspace, with the sensors showing a clear reduction in the intensity of the sonic boom produced by the F-5E modified fuselage.

Submited on september 6, 2003:

Northrop, working with the Pentagon and NASA sucessfully tested a "quiet" supersonic flight wednesday at California's Edwards Air Force Base. In the tests, an F-5E aircraft with a modified nose section flew supersonically through the test range, shortly thereafter, an unmodified F-5E flew supersonically through the same airspace, with the sensors showing a clear reduction in the intensity of the sonic boom produced by the F-5E modified fuselage.

Holy shit.

At higher altitudes, the air is thinner, drag resistance is less, so terminal velocity is much higher.

In 1960, Colonel Joe Kittinger jumped from 102,800 feet, reputedly reaching speeds of 714mph.

Okay, I thought maybe you were on crack, but another poster linked to this which looks like what you described. My questions still stand, but I actually believe you now.

The United States Air Force Research Lab Propulsion Directorate has a pulse detonation engine program as well. Pics and story here. Apparently their engine is made mostly of off-the-shelf automotive parts. It's powered by any type of general aviation fuel (Jet-A, JP-8), and even gasoline.

The United States Air Force Research Lab Propulsion Directorate has a pulse detonation engine program as well. Pics and story here. Apparently their engine is made mostly of off-the-shelf automotive parts. It's powered by any type of general aviation fuel (Jet-A, JP-8), and even gasoline.

"Robotics, we think, can enhance our ability to protect our installations, people and resources," Dillard said. "One of the things we want, and have asked the industry to do, is to be able not only to detect (with robots) but to start a neutralization phase before we can get response forces out there.

Army Commander: "Hey, great! It "neutralized" all the bad guys. Now let's just pick up the robots and put 'em back in the truck. Uh, hey why are they aiming at US? We're the good guys!"

Robots, in MP3-quality, 16-part harmony: "KILL ALL HUMANS, er, NEUTRALIZATION PHASE IN PROGRESS!" *FRAG*FRAG*FRAG*

Army Commander: "What?! ALL humans? Who the hell programmed this?!"

Army Geek (via radio, in secure bunker): "You did, Sir. Your exact words, Sir, were, and I quote, 'Program the suckers to blast the holy hell out of--I mean--neutralize anyone it sees.' You could just press the big red OFF button in the middle of their back. If you can get that close."

Army Commander: "Oh, crap."

Robots: *FRAG*FRAG*FRAG* *FRAG*FRAG*FRAG*

Army Commander: "ARRGH URG ugggh gurgle....thunk"

Robots: "SC0RE: HUMANS: 0, R0BOTS: 50. W00_H00! W0ULD Y0U L1KE T0 PLAY AGA1N?"

Army Geek (via radio, in secure bunker): "Heh-heh, stupid humans. They can kiss my shiny metal, err, my hairy-over-metal ass."

One of the articles linked talked about people currently buying these things:

People have bought it just the way it is for things like inspecting the fuselage of an aircraft," Wiedeman said.

We are one step closer to having R2D2! I wonder if the robots can crawl around while the plane is in flight? (Probably not, based on the specs given). Anyway, I think this is pretty interesting. Using these on a space shuttle might not be a bad idea, ie- crawling around outside and inspecting things before take off. And later- making external in-flight repairs...

As far as "radio" controlled goes, Lockheed Martin has been there, and done that. Oh, and you forgot to add in the costs to make it stealthy.

As far as "radio" controlled goes, Lockheed Martin has been there, and done that. Oh, and you forgot to add in the costs to make it stealthy.

For paragraph 1, just google "sweatshop Thailand" and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky"

Actually I think Western enterprises want to do this:

1. Begin operations in a third world country.
2. Purchase all the local sources of competing products.
3. Phase out the erstwhile competing products.
4. Promote their own higher-priced product, which people will need a "better" standard of living to enjoy.

I'm familiar with this series of events in India, where the role of "Western Enterprise" will be played today by Coca-Cola. This is not to say that they didn't do the same thing here in the US.

Turning 3rd-worlders into global consumers is a disservice. Not that it really matters when "consumer" is your goal for them. I say if these businesses can't afford to pay their workers a wage commensurate with the value to the company of the product they create, then they need to take their business someplace else, or be happy with lower profit margins. Other countries don't exist to provide profit margins and make exports possible. That's more of a Nike attitude, or Mattel.

You seem to have a great faith in the market's invisible hand.

As for Iraq, a high cost in bombs is perfect. It's not, after all, Rumsfeld's money. The US would like nothing better than to wage more expensive wars so they can unload their older, dumber bombs newly upgraded with JDAM. And if we really cared about how much fun our soldiers were having in Iraq, we'd pay them more, not expose them to depleted Uranium, and treat veterans better.

Ravi

That male bravado won't get you anywhere. You must think, consider, design and re-design the experiments.

Yeager can only say stuff like that and live because he has a very good intuition for the engineering. And because Jack Ridley had his back.

Yeager's autobiography is a good read.

According to this page, Murphy's law is named after Air Force Captain Edward A. Murphy, Jr. for some 1949 medicial research involving strapping a person into a rocket powered sled. According to this page, Murphy worked at Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, but the incident for which his "law" is named occurred, at Edwards Air Force Base, in California, which I believe is about 200 miles from Lawrence Livermore National Lab. The projects are vaguely similar: California, the military, testing, explosive materials. It's an off chance, but somehow this makes me wonder if the Michael Murphy managing this project might be related to the Murphy from Murphy's law.

See this article by the software lead. They develop on VAX/VMS in Ada 83, because that's what you could get in 1991. They had planned to migrate to the DEC Alpha (remember?) but that didn't work out. They're looking at migrating to Ada 95.

1. Afghanistan, 1998, 2001, 2002, 2003
2. Bosnia, 1994, 1995
3. Cambodia, 1969-70
4. China, 1945-46
5. Congo (now Zaire), 1964
6. Cuba, 1959-1961 ("Bay of Pigs" invasion)
7. El Salvador, 1980s
8. Grenada, 1983
9. Guatemala, 1954, 1960, 1967-69
10. Indonesia, 1958
11. Iran, 1987
12. Iraq, 1991-2000, 2003 (The U.S. government used radioactive bombs in the first war against Iraq. See United States War Crimes Against Iraq for what appears to be an accurate history.)
13. Korea and China, 1950-53 (Korean War)
14. Kuwait, 1991
15. Laos, 1964-73
16. Lebanon, 1983, 1984 (both Lebanese and Syrian targets)
17. Libya, 1986
18. Nicaragua, 1980s
19. Panama, 1989. The U.S. government called it "Operation Just Cause". The link is to a U.S. military web site.
20. Peru, 1965
21. Somalia, 1993
22. Sudan 1998. There are doubts that the pharmaceutical plant that was bombed was making weapons.
23. Vietnam, 1961-73 (An estimated 2,000,000 Vietnamese were killed.)
24. Yugoslavia, 1999

There are many sources for this information. For example, see this PBS web page: PBS: A Chronology of U.S. Military Interventions (PBS is the Public Broadcasting System in the U.S.) Also see From Wounded Knee to Afghanistan: A Century of U.S. Military Interventions [zmag.org] and The government of the United States is a consistent opponent of international law. [prairie-fire.org]

I put some links and explanation together about wh

Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio. Largest military aviation museum in the world. Best memory I had: One plane had tires with a radius taller than me; the weight distribution broke too many runways so they had to replace the landing gear. That, and an SR-71.

Blue Man Group, any city they perform in.

Beyond that, I'd spend all my time at the Smithsonian and not worry about the fact that I was spending all my time in one place.

then check out the Air Force Museum at Wright Patterson AFB in Ohio. They've got an amazing selection of military aircraft.

Try the Henry Ford Museum in Dearborn, Michigan. For the old school geek -- both Edison and the Wright Bros' workshops, plus 120 years of heavy-duty industrial goodness.

Also, just down I-75 in Dayton, Ohio, the United States Air Force Museum at Wright Patterson AFB. Lots and lots of nifty (but decommissioned) military aircraft.

If your still around late July try catching the Tri-State Antique Engine Show in Bird City, Kansas, and compaire that to the Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio.

There is just someing odd about watching steam tractors and Model-T's drive by as people are talking on cell phones.

Unless you don't count The National Inventors Hall of Fame in Akron, USAF Museum in Dayton, nor the Neil Armstrong Air and Space Museum in Wapakoneta ( near Dayton ).

But I agree, the Rock Hall is a bit of a bomb and not going to Cedar Point while in the states is a crime. Make sure you make this part of your trip early in September before (a) Cedar Point closes and ( more importantly ) (b) the weather turns to shit.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Another great place in Ohio, which is a little more nerdy, is the United States Air Force Museum at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Dayton, Ohio. When I was there a few years ago, they had some of the most advanced aircraft ever made, including the XB-70, SR-71, YF-22, X-29, F-117, Tacit Blue, as well as some old favorites like an X-15, B-52, F-15A, A-10, B-1A, and F-16A. And MANY MANY more.

I don't know if I would clasify it as a "once in a lifetime" experience, but if you are at all interested in aircraft, it is simply glorioius to be able to go up to and touch these almost mythical planes.

The XB-70 is amazing, it doesn't even look like it should be able to exist.

Well, If you want Geeksih how about this:

Palamar Telescope.

Then again there is Cal Tech in Pasadena.

Next you can stop at JPL.

There is also Mt. Wilson above Los Angeles.

Of course you could also goto Griffith Observatory but it's closed for a renovation.

All these are in the San Diego/Los Angeles area.

Heck, if you are into art/old books/old stuff there is the Getty.

And of course the Huntington with their copy of the Guttenburg bible.

We also have Edwards Airforce Base which is where the shuttle use to land, but they put on a heck of an air show.

And when traveling to the LA area you need to fly into the Burbank airport. They built the SR-71, the F117 and several other toys right there...

When you are done with Los Angeles area head on up to the San Fransisco area and check out the Valley. I'm sure a couple more people here can fill you in on those spots.

MAn I think I'm going to love looking at this thread!

Yes, I have seen a clean-shaven terrorist. Here's a big picture of him.

If you really value job stability there's a few groups out there that will take you.

When you absolutely, positively, have to kill every motherfscking RFID tag in the store, accept no substitutes...
The Electromagnetic Bomb
The Electromagnetic Bomb
The Electromagnetic Bomb
High-Power Microwave Bomb

George W Bush and his "Enduring Freedom" campaign that gave these kids the belief that violence would solve their problems as well. I think he has a bigger influence on their lives than Quake 3 or Warriors of Freedom will ever have.

Wouldn't 10 g's on touchdown cause death by deceleration trauma?

Bah. During the cold war, the air force did studies using a rocket sled, led by Dr. John P. Stapp that showed that 10Gs is nowhere near fatal. From the page:

By riding the decelerator sled himself, Dr. Stapp demonstrated that a human can withstand at least 45 G's in the forward position, with adequate harness. This is the highest known G force voluntarily encountered by a human.

I suppose the "with adequate harness" part can't be stressed enough, but there's nothing automatically fatal about 10Gs.

Dr. Stapp sounds like a pretty unique guy, and his work led to more survivable crashes in both aircraft and automobiles. I'm giving you One last chance to click on his biography, since I really want you to read it. :).

Wouldn't 10 g's on touchdown cause death by deceleration trauma?

Bah. During the cold war, the air force did studies using a rocket sled, led by Dr. John P. Stapp that showed that 10Gs is nowhere near fatal. From the page:

By riding the decelerator sled himself, Dr. Stapp demonstrated that a human can withstand at least 45 G's in the forward position, with adequate harness. This is the highest known G force voluntarily encountered by a human.

I suppose the "with adequate harness" part can't be stressed enough, but there's nothing automatically fatal about 10Gs.

Dr. Stapp sounds like a pretty unique guy, and his work led to more survivable crashes in both aircraft and automobiles. I'm giving you One last chance to click on his biography, since I really want you to read it. :).

Except for materials and gears, mainstream bikes have truly changed little in the last 100 years.

The same basic diamond frame, same chain drive. And that is not a bad thing. THe chain drive on a bike is about the most efficient power transfer device ever designed. Many alternatives have been tried, and we keep coming back to the chain. The riding position closely simulates a walking/running movement. Optimized over several million years.

Go to the USAF Museum at Wright-Patterson AFB and look at Orville's bike. No real difference between that and a new bike. Same basic riding position.
Lance could hop on that bike, and trash just about any rider, on any new bike around.

Except for recumbents, there's been little real change. And even there, the riding position/movement is the same, just rotated ~90 degrees. Possibly better aerodynamics, though.

It's not the bike.
- Lance Armstrong

It doesn't get easier, you just go faster.
- Greg LeMond

Shut up and ride.
-Anon

In 1959, we began development on the XB-70, which had a cruising speed of MACH 3, but ultimately gave up on the project because flight at that speed is far too unstable for something as big and as unmaneuverable as a bomber. In fact, bombers have been getting slower, not faster. The B-2 isn't even capable of MACH 1.

The more important thing here is the B-2's $1.157 billion price tag. That's for each plane, excluding the cost of development. How many B-2 bombers do you think the U.S. military has at that price? How many missions do you think they ran in Iraq? Heck, we don't even really use our B-1s all that much. There's a reason we're still mostly using B-52s, the same basic plane it was in the Vietnam war.

Obviously the hypersonic bomber looks to vastly exceed that cost in both development and in unit price. Even if they are taken into production, they will be more rare than even the B-2, and I hardly think they would change the shape of our entire military and foreign policies. That, combined with the date 2025, makes me think "yeah, so?" By then, far more important developments will come along.

"The logic that we should wait and 'do space travel right' is the same logic that would have demanded the Wright brothers not bother with their stupid, cheaply made, not-able-to-carry-150-passengers Flyer, while waiting for someone to come up with the idea AND engineering for the DC-10."

There were other aviation pioneers before the Wright Bros. who experimented with inadequate technology. Langley actually flew a steam powered model airplane for 3/4 mile in 1896, but he later switched to gasoline power on his manned airplane. I think it's fair to say anyone thinking about a steam powered plane would have been better off waiting for internal combustion.

So the question now is, are chemical rockets adequate technology for manned space exploration? I would say barely. Sure, there are pie in the sky technologies like space elevator and fusion, and ion engines might be good for small, lightweight probes, but the only realistic propulsion breakthrough we have is nuclear fission rockets. They make me as nervous as anyone else, but for a Mars mission it's actually safer for the astronauts because of the shorter travel time and hence less radiation exposure while in space.

I saw a fascinating documentary about the military using this kind of thing for pilots. Found a short piece here.

Airborne time is generally limited only by the weather (60% standard operational availability) and routine maintenance downtime, which is minimal. Since the aerostats are stable in all winds below 65 knots, the aerostat program provides low-cost, one of a kind radar coverage uniquely suited for its given mission.

More information at this page.

Pictures of the Shuttle on-orbit can be found here.

Basically, the Starfire Optical Range can operate as a directed energy weapon using a high-power laser to ionize a conductive path through air, then pulsing a high-voltage, high-current jolt through it. It's actually pretty useful for atmospheric studies as well.