Domain: apestaart.org
Stories and comments across the archive that link to apestaart.org.
Comments · 29
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Focus on correctness, not speed
(Argh, I just lost a 20-paragraph post because I chose to change my post style to plain old text so it would format nicely. Thanks slashdot...)
I'll be brief this time. Disclaimer: I'm the author of morituri, a CD ripper for Linux with support for AccurateRip, modelled after Exact Audio Copy but command line.
I was in the same situation as you a few years ago. I had originally ripped my collection to Ogg/Vorbis, and thought that this time I wanted everything 100% lossless so I would never have to rip again, but just transcode from the rips. The main issue I wanted to solve, besides going lossless, is to make sure I had no bad tracks with skips in my collection. (You detect those skips over the years listening to the songs, not as you do the rip, and you're never sure if there are glitches in the tracks or not, and it drove me crazy).
But when I researched what it meant to get it right this time, my mind got blown at everything that could go wrong. Here's a condensed version of the results of my research.
The biggest eye opener to me was that the fact that each drive model reads samples with a different offset. That offset is always the same for that model, but different across models. I have no idea why it is so (does anyone know), and we're lucky that it's constant for a model, otherwise I wouldn't even be able to solve my main concern - the detection of skips and bad rips. Nowadays people use AccurateRip, a database of checksums for ripped tracks that people upload. If your rip matches several other people's rips, you can be reasonably sure that you have a correct rip.
Since at the time there wasn't a single Linux-based ripper doing this, I created morituri.
There are several other issues that make ripping a fragile activity. I recommend you get a drive that is able to rip Hidden Track One Audio (The audio in Track 01 but between Index 00 and 01). Maybe you don't care, but I have a few gems in my collection with good stuff there (two Soulwax albums and Luke Haines's Das Capital spring to mind). Some drives are simply not able to get at this data. Most software doesn't get it either. EAC can be told to do so, but it's a manual and fragile process. morituri's goal is to create a perfect image so that you can burn a bit-exact copy; so it rips the HTOA tracks always.
I suggest you rethink whether you really want to go quick and dirty. You're going to rip the cd's once and then listen to the result many times. Are you sure you don't want to get it right on the first try this time ? Is your time spent changing the discs not valuable enough to not have to repeat it ?
morituri is probably slower than less accurate rippers, as the focus is accuracy. I would argue that the time spent ripping and encoding really is not the biggest issue. The real trouble is having to change disks, which is going to take time no matter how much time it takes for your computer to do its thing.
I made a quick calculation of how much time I would be spending to put in my 1600 CD's, and decided to spend that time on creating a LEGO CD changer instead (I had checked the price of disc changers, and the cheapest I could find was around $800, with no real guarantee of whether I'd be able to control it from Linux).
Friends visiting shared their scorn and admiration in equal doses, but the robot was able to do around 20 CD's reliably in one go, so I would just load them up in the morning before work. 3 months later my 1600 CD collection was digitized.
morituri interfaces with MusicBrainz to get the metadata, and you can retag albums later on based on a different release id or when the data is updated on MB. There's also options to do an encode of lossless rips; I regularly run a simple shell command to transcode the flacs to mp3s, and it only transcodes what wasn't done before.
Give it a try, let me know what you think.
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Focus on correctness, not speed
(Argh, I just lost a 20-paragraph post because I chose to change my post style to plain old text so it would format nicely. Thanks slashdot...)
I'll be brief this time. Disclaimer: I'm the author of morituri, a CD ripper for Linux with support for AccurateRip, modelled after Exact Audio Copy but command line.
I was in the same situation as you a few years ago. I had originally ripped my collection to Ogg/Vorbis, and thought that this time I wanted everything 100% lossless so I would never have to rip again, but just transcode from the rips. The main issue I wanted to solve, besides going lossless, is to make sure I had no bad tracks with skips in my collection. (You detect those skips over the years listening to the songs, not as you do the rip, and you're never sure if there are glitches in the tracks or not, and it drove me crazy).
But when I researched what it meant to get it right this time, my mind got blown at everything that could go wrong. Here's a condensed version of the results of my research.
The biggest eye opener to me was that the fact that each drive model reads samples with a different offset. That offset is always the same for that model, but different across models. I have no idea why it is so (does anyone know), and we're lucky that it's constant for a model, otherwise I wouldn't even be able to solve my main concern - the detection of skips and bad rips. Nowadays people use AccurateRip, a database of checksums for ripped tracks that people upload. If your rip matches several other people's rips, you can be reasonably sure that you have a correct rip.
Since at the time there wasn't a single Linux-based ripper doing this, I created morituri.
There are several other issues that make ripping a fragile activity. I recommend you get a drive that is able to rip Hidden Track One Audio (The audio in Track 01 but between Index 00 and 01). Maybe you don't care, but I have a few gems in my collection with good stuff there (two Soulwax albums and Luke Haines's Das Capital spring to mind). Some drives are simply not able to get at this data. Most software doesn't get it either. EAC can be told to do so, but it's a manual and fragile process. morituri's goal is to create a perfect image so that you can burn a bit-exact copy; so it rips the HTOA tracks always.
I suggest you rethink whether you really want to go quick and dirty. You're going to rip the cd's once and then listen to the result many times. Are you sure you don't want to get it right on the first try this time ? Is your time spent changing the discs not valuable enough to not have to repeat it ?
morituri is probably slower than less accurate rippers, as the focus is accuracy. I would argue that the time spent ripping and encoding really is not the biggest issue. The real trouble is having to change disks, which is going to take time no matter how much time it takes for your computer to do its thing.
I made a quick calculation of how much time I would be spending to put in my 1600 CD's, and decided to spend that time on creating a LEGO CD changer instead (I had checked the price of disc changers, and the cheapest I could find was around $800, with no real guarantee of whether I'd be able to control it from Linux).
Friends visiting shared their scorn and admiration in equal doses, but the robot was able to do around 20 CD's reliably in one go, so I would just load them up in the morning before work. 3 months later my 1600 CD collection was digitized.
morituri interfaces with MusicBrainz to get the metadata, and you can retag albums later on based on a different release id or when the data is updated on MB. There's also options to do an encode of lossless rips; I regularly run a simple shell command to transcode the flacs to mp3s, and it only transcodes what wasn't done before.
Give it a try, let me know what you think.
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Re:Advice from a DAE veteran
I'm the author of morituri, which is a CD ripper for Linux which uses AccurateRip. I was not aware of any restrictions wrt. GPL - can you point me to something with more information so I can figure out what the deal is and whether I should change anything?
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Re:Still searching for "perfect" mp3 player (mplay
Here are a few good command-line tools for managing and playing your music:
dnuos, a list-generating script which you could use to create something like your catalog.txt file. It's pretty nice, and it can do things like read the metadata of the files if you want, as well as the file names.
morituri, a command line CD ripper with error correction support and metadata fetching
beets, a command line music manager which includes an MPD server and so can be interacted with using any number of command line MPD clientsI think beets + [some command line MPD client] would be best for you. I'm a happy Amarok user, but I've got a large collection that is partially hosted on a little Samba server that was for a long time headless, so I've played with command line management tools and I found beets and morituri to be very impressive. I hope one of those links is useful to you.
:-) -
Re:Support for other distributions?
I don't think it's as easy as just converting the package, since Ubuntu One ties into a lot of other Ubuntu specific packages. I know some have tried it for Fedora, with varying levels of success.
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A little ironic
A magazine that is about Free Software promoting a distribution that incorporates non-free software (see the Ubuntu-non-free FSF picture) over the Red Hat sponsored Fedora project that is pure Free Software... Sure it is convenient that Ubuntu includes proprietary drivers in their main distribution. But you have to have respect for the Fedora board who refuses to put out a distribution that would be non-free. Especially if you have a magazine devoted to Free Software.
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Re:here's another one ;DAnd don't forget:
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is XBox the way to go ?Personally I don't think the XBox is the way to go. Sure, it is readily available. Sure, it is cheap. Sure, Microsoft is selling them at HUGE loss.
But I really don't want to be limited by the limited hardware. In two years' time, how are you going to upgrade the box ?
I'm working on a similar project myself (A href="http://davedina.apestaart.org/">The Dave/Dina Project), which is a distribution (based on Red Hat) to turn a PC into a media hub. It works, it's in our living room, it has 200 GB of storage space (the 550 albums it has encoded to Ogg to date take about 35 GB of those), it records video (we record about 15 shows each week, all through a web interface), it plays emulator games and even Doom, it shows photos, and s on.
It isn't the prettiest thing in the world (WE NEED ARTISTS !), but it's open, you can swap out components, tinker with it, and help us improve it.
I don't want to be tied to any hardware at all, especially not Microsoft's. How long before a cease-and-desist order is issued ?
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DaveDina is trying to....create a "complete" multimedia center, with open source software. It's based on RedHat Linux, and features DVD playback, MP3/OGG (with an ingenious ranking system), tv-recording (time-lapse viewing coming soon) with automatical importing of program guides from the web, a picture browser, games (including MAME!).
It's also being equiped with communication features such as e-mail checking, a phone answering machine, and even a who's-rang-the-door feature.
Check it all out at their website, davedina.apestaart.org, and join their mailinglist!
You can also come hang out at #davedina on Freenode
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Re:Please help us compete!
"apestaart" is dutch for "monkey tail", the tail of a monkey.
It's also the name of this sign: @
So in English @ = "at" and in dutch @ = "apestaart"
This is reflected in our logo. -
or you could try DAVE/DINA
Dave/Dina is similar to MythTV
At the moment MythTV has beter TV-options, better layout and a better logo :-)
DaveDina has more AUDIO options, at the moment.
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Please help us compete!
We're trying to make a similar thing based on linux. (it's called DAVE/DINA and you can read all about that strange name -and more- over here).
I must admit, we were pretty surprised with this version of XP. It looks really cool (we haven't tried it though).
It made us realize we have to speed up our work on DAVE/DINA. So we're planning our first ISO-release this month.
It will include:
- Watching TV
- RECORDING TV (only europ i think)
- Playing/grabbing music
- Music Database
- Photo gallery
- playing/grabbing DVD
- playing DIVX
but a lot of work needs to be done. We hope to lure some contributors with this release.
But you can already start to help us now: Visit our website, and comment on our plans (so we know what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong), or make us a cool new logo -
Please help us compete!
We're trying to make a similar thing based on linux. (it's called DAVE/DINA and you can read all about that strange name -and more- over here).
I must admit, we were pretty surprised with this version of XP. It looks really cool (we haven't tried it though).
It made us realize we have to speed up our work on DAVE/DINA. So we're planning our first ISO-release this month.
It will include:
- Watching TV
- RECORDING TV (only europ i think)
- Playing/grabbing music
- Music Database
- Photo gallery
- playing/grabbing DVD
- playing DIVX
but a lot of work needs to be done. We hope to lure some contributors with this release.
But you can already start to help us now: Visit our website, and comment on our plans (so we know what we're doing right and what we're doing wrong), or make us a cool new logo -
Re:Multimedia-centric Linux?There are solutions for recording tv straight to your Linux box, for a start have a look at the Video4Linux resources here and google and DistroWatch are always your friend
;)While the various larger distributions are geared towards multimedia functionality to different degrees, it obviously depends exactly what you want out of your box and how much you want to play with the guts (hardware and software). Many people would be happy with a DVD/VCD/mp3 player rather than a full-blown PVR, and I'm not sure how much freedom you'll get in this area with Media Center Pc's - I doubt this version of XP is designed around being able to rip, mix and burn
;) This is where some of the other Linux projects come in (some focussed on the embedded market only though). Maybe distribution in the classical sense was not the best of description for me to use, although projects like Flamethrower Linux are aiming for that - RedHat and Debian are working on multimedia based distributions, altho they are aimed more at the multimedia worker rather than player.Projects like Dave/Dina, homeDVR, OpenPVR, MythTV and FreeVo aim at homebrew boxes somewhat akin to the Media Center idea and there are a myriad of sources for building boxes that do as much if not more than the Media Center. Flexibility is always good IMHO, and if you can start with a box that may just do DVD, DivX, CD's, mp3's and ogg, but expand it into a classic gaming machine running MAME et al as well as serving up content to the rest of your flat/house/hovel then that is "a good thing". More info at ding, eboxy.
Remember that Linux is used for commercial PVR's (and the Moxi Media Center) too and while there are companies that do these things commercially, that's normally a sign of open versions being around somewhere, especially if you like to get your hands dirty
:) If you don't, then it won't be long before you new (or old) console will be able to fulfill many of these functions, again, they already can to a degree, if you don't mind hacking away a bit. -
A nice little projectI wrote some gtk software to do just that. Haven't released it yet (not mature enough, missing most features), but it works pretty well on the home tv/stereo system with lirc, a $35 Irman, and my universal remote (sony rmvl900). It plays using xmms in the background, so it can do anything xmms does (I think can play ogg). Also it plays videos with MPlayer.
There are a few similar projects out there as well that I've been tracking.
- Myth TV has a music mode AND does live tv functionality! (I will probably migrate to this instead of continuing my project).
- Dave/Dina project may fit the bill too.
- IR File Chooser for the perl hackers.
:)
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Freevo
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We're trying, HELP us!
at
http://davedina.apestaart.org
we're trying to make a linux-box that seamlessly integrates every bit of software needed for a multimedia box.
Development has been slowing down lately. But we HAVE a working model in our living room.
So give us a bit incentive to keep working on this project: subscribe to our sourceforge mailing-list and give us your comments/ideas.
Thanks! -
Re:Build a Linux PVR?
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Sounds like DaveDina
Game console, PVR,
... sounds like Digital Audio & Video Entertainment and Digital Interactive Networked Amusement to me... or in short DAVEDINA, a project doing all of this under Linux.. Check it out, it's cool, it's almost apt-gettable and it's free (beer/speech)! -
Re:Major Leap.
Sure. Why not? There is in fact A project I know of creating a Tivo-like device. They are looking for help and inspiration, so feel free to join them!
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Linux works
We have a linux box next to our Tv that does the job quite effectively.
I agree, it wasn't easy, but we can:
- watch DVD's, TV, DivX's, foto's
- listen to music
- record from TV
- ...
Our project is far from finished but once it is, it'll make a kick ass HTPC out of any linux-box.
ATM Windows is easier but we went with Linux because in the long run it's easier to set up, maintain, change and distribute. It's also FAR more easy to customize and you're not so dependent on one company (Microsoft for windows and mediaplayer) -
wanna help us make a linux based HTPC?
Over at http://davedina.apestaart.org we're trying to make a linux based HTPC.
It's been a slow month for davedina development because we had to work on some other stuff, but some new volunteers would be a good incentive to get us back going.
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Re:Time for the homebrew DVR kit?
sounds like something the dave/dina project would be capabable of in the end.
it's currently in the pre-alpha phase at sourceforge, but perhaps stuff like the main story will encourage people to contribute and get things going.
There is also DVR which is a bit more simple and to the point.
perhaps elements of these two projects (dave/dina's interface, and dvr's recording/streaming abilities) could be combined to make a linux dist for set top dvr boxes.
then someone could put together some specs for desigining an enclosuer then tida!
the point is that the necessary tools are here, we just need some people with the time and energy to put it together. i would we more than willing to work on the hardware side. -
we're trying
Take a look at
http://davedina.apestaart.org
The project is far from finished and i don't know if it will work on this setup. But you can ask around on the mailinglist.
We have a working box in our living room that does some of the things you want (no audio recording yet) -
Or just help us
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Re:Homemade PVR
we're trying to do this
although far from finished you can download what we already have at:
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We are trying to do this, wanna help?
http://davedina.apestaart.org
With a couple of friends we are trying to make a linux based home entertainment system. Eventually we want te be able to:
- play mp3's and serve them on our lan. (works)
- have a nifty audio database with webinterface (almost works)
- serve a webcam (works)
- play dvd's (works)
- rip dvd's (kinda works)
- play divx-cd's (works)
- watch tv (works) and decode pay-tv :-) (almost works)
- record from tv (works, but no automated TV-guide)
- serve recorded DVD's and TV-shows on lan (works)
- burn recorded stuff onto cd's
- play games (works)
- create a nice interface so we can control it with a normal and simpel remote.
We can still use some help. If you're interested go to our site, read the faq and download what we already have. -
What's the use? DOMOTICA!
A bit expensive perhaps, but if i would have a lot of money, I would mount one on the wall in every room in my house.
I would be able to listen to music from my entertainment server, watch who's at the door control the lights in that room, and so much more!
It would be geek-heaven! -
Great for tricking out your house!
These look great to mount on the wall and control things like lights, music and security cams throughout the house.
A bit expensive if you want to install one in every room. But it would be cool! I mean, these things have a TOUCH screen and wireless LAN!
would be great to integrate in our home entertainment project.