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Microsoft/HP to Market Crippled Entertainment PCs
gustywinds writes "CNet is reporting that Microsoft and HP recently announced the details on their Media Center PCs that will be coming out this Christmas season (this used to be called 'Freestyle'). The big story is that these PCs will have anti-copying mechanisms built-in to them -- ie can't burn recorded TV shows to DVD, or even copy and play them back on other PCs. And they are going to be expensive... $1500 for the starter box. Sounds like this thing is going to be DOA. Lots of other PC-based TV recording products that aren't restrictive when it comes to copying stuff goes... Snapstream, WinDVR... And, of course, Hauppauge, nVidia and ATi have products too but their software is pretty lacking..."
doesn't MS do that already with their OS?
Where can I get one?
Has Comcast disconnected your Internet account? Same here. You can read about it at http://comcastissue.blogspot.com
I'm getting a little disturbed by how often I click on a story about whatever mischief Microsoft is up to lately and see it accompanied by a big old ad for a Microsoft product.
Has our society become so completely immersed by irony, all the time, that we've ceased to even notice it?
You can always install some other OS and use 'em for whatever.
Which is why these boxes will continue to show up as fancy tax-writeoffs for companies
:_)
As soon as the consumer is deemed intelligent not enough to lie, cheat, and steal, all the push for DRM will go away. The companies behind this only want whats best for us.
And yeah, I believe in Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, and Gnomes
Or are they taking stupid injections? Really now, this makes no sense for 1001 reasons. First off, the obvious one that says this will be a dud. But even more important, this opens Pandora's box for the DRM crowd, giving them just what they want. On the other hand, they might realize this and wait for this crap to bomb, just to say: "See DRM people, your ideas are a flop".
What if you fdisk'd the drive, and re-installed a copy of windows? (or linux ofcourse;) Or is this some sort of hardware protection?
Sure, it's running linux, but isn't it just a crippled entertainment PC?
sPh
It seems that the order of cracking as always been that some huge company comes up with technology and then someone comes along and cracks it.
... duh ... no one buys it.
During our modern age, it has been the reverse where formats have been created that allow copying and wide dissemination of info and companies come along try to stop it (through heavy handed lawsuits) or try to co-opt it or better (worse?) yet offer a competing scheme that requires you pay for it and
Feel free to add as needed.
Who the hell would be dumb enough to buy one of these? Not people... companies? Possibly..
When corporations are held liable for employees downloading files then maybe companies might go to buy these as a liability hedge.
A real tightly defined scenario sure.......
I would like to know more about why they've put something into an expensive system that they have got to know is going to kill it in the marketplace. Do Microsoft and HP have ties to the entertainment industry I don't know about?
One thing's for certain -- the future of home entertainment is changing, but the "Media Center PC" is not where it's going.
can't burn recorded TV shows to DVD, or even copy and play them back on other PCs ... And $1500 for the starter box
Wow, sounds like this is shaping up to be the next Div-X
The $1500 price is entry-level for the HP model. According to the article, Samsung will also manufacture these entertainment PCs. Who knows, maybe they'll offer the product at a lower price point.
'Freestyle' refers to the version of Windows to be used (now 'Window XP Media Center Edition'), not the actual manufactured boxes.
Also, news.com reports that both HP and Samsung models will be available *before* Christmas season. Apparently even story submittors have stopped reading the articles. :P
This could be fun!
Finding God in a Dog
Like you didn't see THAT one coming. Every time something like this happens, people on /. act all shocked and surprised, like this is somehow NEW. Get a grip, this stuff isn't newsworthy.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
In order for MS and HP to make this successful, they will have to add some kind of entertainment value that makes this better than everything else. It will be interesting to see what kind of "value" MS and HP have in mind for the consumer. There's going to be a lot of hype for this, and you can't hype crippled hardware as well as you can crippled software.
I personally have been looking forward to this for awhile, for the simple reason that I cannot get a Tivo in Canada (and happend to also need a new PC).
0 3sep02b.h tm
s tyle_pre view.asp
Links to some good info I've found today:
HP Press Release
http://www.hp.com/hpinfo/newsroom/press/
The actual system
http://h30015.www3.hp.com/mediaPC/
A overview/review of the system
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/free
you dont need XP but dirvers on linux for someone my level (linux newb but pretty pc literate) are too dang hard..
There's a chance that someone in the US government will draft a law making these PCs the defacto standard for all new branded PCs. After all it's Microsoft and they must protect US business :)
Does one such exist? I'd love to have one just for the convenience of music stations when I get bored with Internet radio stations. I'd love to be able to point and click on my favorite shows(reminders, etc) without fidgeting with my roomate's all-in-one remote.
The article states a price of $1,500-$2,000. Then it talks about marketing them to COLLEGE STUDENTS. Think about that... the college students are the ones most opposed to DRM technologies! For less than $1,000 I can put together a machine with an ATI All in Wonder Pro DVR and a massive disk without the DRM inhibitions. Funny thing is, college students are the ones to figure this out first.
There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq
HAL was named from IBM.
Anyone know of popular fiction references to Microsoft. Directly or by implication.
Bill Gates' house is run on software. I would love to read a bug report from that setup.
Problem is, if the user cannot transfer their digital content, be it original work, copyrighted audio or video, to their next PC, they aren't likely to upgrade. What will Microsoft do in two years when their current customers will want to upgrade their PC, but won't for fear of losing their digital content? If Microsoft is indeed right in saying that digital media will drive PC upgrade cycles, they are being quite shortsighted by releasing an OS which ties all of a consumer's digital media to their current machine.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
# chmod 0 /bin/cp
/cdrom/warez /work/FileServer/w4r3z /bin/cp: Permission denied
$ cp -ra
bash:
So what? The dumb user will be satisfied with that solution, and the 1337 h4x0r will find a way around it anyway.
"Microsoft sees Windows Media Center PCs as ideal for college students or young urbanites living in cramped spaces where a combination computing and entertainment system might be more appealing than separate devices."
Ok, maybe not so much anymore since highspeed is more common, but i remember when I first got to college, the main perk was the highspeed. Are there ANY college students that would buy this, if we couldn't rip off music? What college student could afford a $1500 pc, when you can get an awesome system NOW for $700? Didn't MTV make a flop of a media orientated system too? good luck idiots...
using software that the MAJORITY of people use and being able to interchang EASILY with those people.
having a LARGE variety of programming titles to choose from.
Easy use of your computer.
I am no MS lover, but your comment was definitly over-rated.
I though HP said they were trying to get OUT of their trend of losing business and market share..
Producing entire warehouses of dead computers that no one will buy seems quite counteractive to that plan.
Shrug.
=-Jippy
The sad thing is that it's like the RIAA-sponsored music sites - a project designed to fail.
When HP and MSFT testify that "We tried to sell cripped PCs but nobody bought them" to Congress, Congress' solution will by to make it illegal to buy non- crippled PCs.
If you made boxen at $400 apiece, but can only sell them at $500, would you continue to do so, or would you rather collude with Hollywood to get Congress to make the $500 PCs illegal, so that you can sell the same hardware, crippled, at $1500?
If you're part of the crowd that wants to rant about how capitalism's destroying the world, I'd urge you to make sure you're really talking about capitalism before you rant.
A capitalist (one who believes in a market based in the exchange of goods or money between voluntary participants) would continue to sell non-crippled boxen at $500.
If HP and MSFT get in bed with Hollywood to get Congress to force consumers to buy $1500 crippled entertainment centers, (by banning the $500 non-crippled computers, which consumers seem to prefer), they cease to become capitalists.
"Some of the new features on Windows Media Center would be hard for Apple to easily dismiss, Jones said.
Using a remote control, consumers would be able to listen to digital music, work with digital photos, create movies or watch DVD movies or TV shows. "
Well, if you can't copy freakin' files or burn to CD/DVD with WMC and you can with OS 9/X - there isn't going to be much competition.
The boxes HP/MS are shipping start at more than a 15" iMac does, and the same price as an eMac with a SuperDrive.
http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product _id=1957333&cat=96356&type=19&dept=3944&path=0%3A3 944%3A3951%3A41937%3A86796%3A96356
Plenty of products by microsoft have failed miserably. Bob, for instance. WinMe for another. At best, they get resurrected in another form. Bob becomes Clippy.
I can buy myself a high end PC that's just like all other PCs made today that let's me burn cds/dvds and do what I will with my media, and I can pay about $1000 USD for it. Or, I can buy the same PC but WITHOUT the ability to do what I'd like with my media, and pay $1500-$2000 USD. Um...I...I think I'll take the first one.
Oh yeah, and I thought it was quite comical that when I pulled up the article about how HP was trying to sell this crap, I got a huge banner ad for Dell.
do not read this line twice.
We all know it will be hacked a week before it's release by some 12 year old. A week latter, someone will release a Linux that will run on it.
Why does M$ even waste their time anymore? Can't they just let us have one cool thing that we can do whatever we want with? Is that so hard?
This thing is definately DOA.
Unfortunately it will probably prevent some little company from getting VC for coming out with a decent version of this. Which is probably the intent anyway.
Wait a minute... so you are telling me that Microsoft is selling me something that I have to pay more for, but I get less?
No way, your nuts, they never would do that.
You have to be kidding me, marketing expensive PCs that restrict you? What is the point? Most PCs that people buy these days are from so called "white box" places (i.e. your local small computer store). I can't see why anyone would pay more for less.
That strategy might make sense as Microsoft attempts to attract Hollywood movie studios with its digital rights management and anti-copying technologies.
This is NOT DOA, because it is not about PCs or PVRs or multimedia control. It is a Proof of Concept to sell the Digital Rights Management of MS to the MPAA and RIAA. Then the MPAA and RIAA will then use their money to ensure that ALL PCs have a DRM built into them.
While we can whine and cry that "no machine we buy will!!!", It is a non-issue. Dell, Gateway, Compac/HP, etc. will continue to sell their millions of boxes to the various businesses, and Mom & Dad like always. Legislation will pass that requires DRM and those that do not have it will be marginalized as criminals.
This is not the war, this is just the start of the battle. MPAA/RIAA make be seeing they will never get another DMCA, so they need to control "just content". MS sees the opportunity to manage every piece of electronic data on the web. 95% of the OS market is child's play by comparison.
The way these things fail is if someone manages to circumvent it in the first few months in a way that every 12 year with a 56k connection can bypass it.
I wasted $230 on ATI's 8500DV. The firewire port doesn't work on my highly rated motherboard. I've never seen a less coherent software bundle. No two apps look alike and each one is a separate installation. TV-on-demand would be great if it worked. However, every driver/software upgrade has made it worse. It doesn't even try to work now. All I can do is use the VCR functions. I could have bought WinDVR for $50 and used it to control the $30 TV tuner I already had in the parts pile. Better interface and less money.
If this new beast has decent software and they drop that leading '1' from the price, it could be a nice system. Who cares about DRM? That'll be defeated within a week of release.
what are they going to do with the unsold units?
Easy use of your computer.
I am no MS lover, but your comment was definitly over-rated.
Their statement was actually quite apropos, though it should have contained a little detail.
As an anectdote, a friend of mine used Microsoft Windows Media Player to rip his music collection, and wondered why he couldn't play some of his music (he'd upgraded his video card IIRC). I showed him where to turn off 'digital rights management' and explained to him why DRM was newspeak for 'digital rights denial' and how the default settings of his OS were designed, deliberately, by Microsoft, to fuck him.
He was quite angry, and while he isn't ready to switch to GNU/Linux yet, he did download a free ripper and started reripping the music he could no longer listen to into OggVorbis format.
So yes, Microsoft is deliberately selling extraordinarilly crippled PCs to the average consumer, not only crippled by the limitations, bugs, and design flaws of their software, but deliberately crippled and broken in addition to all of that.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
Yes, it's nice to be able to record stuff, but the price tag is too high on this new box.
My TiVo was a lot less expensive and offers the same functionality as far as video is concerned. But the TiVo seems to suffer the same "locked to play only from the same box that recorded the stream" syndrome (although it seems if you're willing to jump through constantly changing hoops it's possible to circumvent that. With 2 x 100 B disks to record my shows, I haven't been motivated yet to jump through the hoops (PPP out of the back serial port.)
At some point someone is going to release some free, easy-to-use software for capturing and editting video.
And, at some point someone is going to sell the hardware that makes this easy to do from your couch and easy to plug Ethernet, extra hard drives into the back. It doesn't have to cost $1500, either.
When those things happen, there will be a furor in Hollywood unlike what you've seen so far.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
..there is no end to how dumb people can be..
I would guess that this product is intended to fail.
That was the impression I got from reading the article, too. Consider this snipit:
This makes it sound very much like the primary motivation for creating this system is to make friends with the RIAA & MPAA. I think customer satisfaction is secondary to them. And remember, this is Microsoft we're talking about here. They have a monopoly on OSs. They can pretty much do what they want and the customers will be stuck with it. And Apple-heads and Linux-fans, please don't start screaming at me. I hear you. The problem is mainstream America doesn't.
GMD
watch this
Particularly Microsoft - now that the growth if off the PC rose, they desperately need new revenue streams to replace the upgrade treadmill.
sPh
As evidence, may I present the millions of AOL subscribers.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
2 100 byte disks? That is *damn* good compression for MPEG :)
So, making a backup copy of your cd should not be allowed? Hypothetical: You drop your cd as your walking to your car and accidentally it falls into a storm drain. Now what? Go pay up to $16.99 for a new one? I don't know about you but that seems like a waste of money to me.
find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown
I dunno...buying an overpriced, shackled, computer to watch and record music and (God help us) TV programs makes about as much sense as buying an overpriced TV to run your spreadsheets. Did the people running MS, HP, AOL, and all the rest have childhood fantasies about being movie moguls? This all smacks of a hangover from the late and unlamented flash-in-the-pan known as "convergence".
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
Plenty of products by microsoft have failed miserably. Bob, for instance. WinMe for another. At best, they get resurrected in another form. Bob becomes Clippy.
And Clippy was such a success... It failed as well, why else would MS have created a websited devoted to it's retirement --- err demise...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
I think this sentence says it all, really:"There's not that much more new you can do with your PC that you're not already doing."
Of reasons HP investors will sue the board of directors. Carly Fiorina, that idiotic Compaq merger, and now releasing these systems... morons.
That's socially challanged nerd-American, not Asswipe, Asswipe!
This makes me think of buying a crappy car with only three wheels and no radio. Yeah, you can probably get to a few places, but it won't be any fun and you're not getting everything you want.
Up until recently, I didn't think there was a quality alternative to Microsoft's Windows Media Player for playing videos on my box. This really started to irk me when they started factoring all kinds of DRM stuff into it -- into the EULA and the app itself.
Imagine my joy when I discovered that the newest version of WinAmp now supports video playback for a number of popular file formats. And even if it is an early release, it will only get better...... as such, I've uninstalled WMP and have no plans to upgrade my OS going forward. In fact, I suspect I'll probably be giving Linux a fair shot in the coming months....... I figure the ability to make the OS work for _me_ far outweighs the compromises I'd have to settle for if I went with Microsoft instead.
Despite the fears of Microsoft & HP in this regard, I'm not sure that the music or motion picture industries could step wholly away from PCs at this point, even if they had it in plan. It has been a long time since video disks were the rage, and the digital medium is a great equalizer -- people will find ways to move the data to the devices that they want to use.
--
BitTorrent in C -- LibBT
http://www.sf.net/projects/libbt
It would be worse if you dropped your cd, didn't notice, and someone else picked it up and listened to it without paying the author their due royalties.
recompile.org
but there's never been a better time than now to join!!! :)
find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown
They haven't fired Carly yet so they obviously aren't serious about future growth and building market share.
For a review, check this: http://www.macintoshdigitalhub.com/reviews/eyetv/i ndex.html
1. Make your computers do less for a higher price
2. ????
3. Profit!!!
I am NOT a consumer! I am a human being! (actually a trollscript bot pretending to be a human being, but still...)
And I'm sick of korporate Amerika insisting that viewing me merely as a consumer is all that is important. That's a damn insulting attitude.
Consumer == buybot.
Blame the people who write software for linux who don't give a damn about the user interface
recompile.org
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
I can only hope that there are enough clueful computer users who violate intellectual property to create a large market for non-DRM hardware.
The thing is, I can't imagine that there will be a time when you can't compile and run your own programs because there are just too many developers out there. And if you can compile and run programs you can compile and run xvid codecs. If MS decide to have processors check for xvid etc headers then you can change the xvid headers to something else- put the info fields in a different order etc.
If people can't transfer their home videos to their pc, or their photos or home-made music, they're going to get pissed-off.
In fact, thinking about it, if Palladium is everything we fear, AND it becomes so that you can't even buy loose components that aren't palladium-based, then I don't see how you wouldn't get a huge mega-meltdown-apocolypse as people refuse to upgrade their computers.
It's certainly going to be interesting.
graspee
1) Get satellite and a Bell ExpressVu PVR. I've had mine for almost a year now, and am very happy with it's performance. I've barely touched my VCR since then!
2) Get a PC with a video capture/playback card (like ATI's All-In-Wonder Radeon), and some open source software and roll-yer-own PVR. You can get TV listings for Canada with the XMLTV project. The Linux VCR HOWTO will probably be helpful.
Tuus crepidae innexilis sunt.
I work for Summex. That is my picture on the front page of the web site. I just want everyone to know that I am gay.
I'm gay.
We should voice a need to MicroShaft's / HP competetors for a un-castrated box. If the competition can copy (TiVo et al) why would the consumer want to buy the more expensive box. This Anonymous Coward would pay $300-$500 for a reliable (linux), good-looking, versatile replacement for the many gagets that my TV requires.
If it can be built, have a good marketing campaign, and can empower the consumer, it will be purchased.
"Sounds like this thing is going to be DOA. Lots of other PC-based TV recording products that aren't restrictive when it comes to copying stuff goes..."
If Microsoft follows their typical business plan, they'll likely buy out one or two of the larger competitors, price out the rest, and then consumers will only have MS and maybe a lesser known "open-source" product from which to choose.
Why would anybody want that overpriced, crippled alternative??
All the creatures will die, And all the things will be broken. That's the law of samurai. (Jubai, 1605)
While browsing around, I found what appears to be a standalone unit that you can use to browse and record broadcast television, includes no DRM controls, includes a 19inch screen, a remote control unit, speakers, and is contained in ONE unit. It does not record the broadcast digitally but the medium it uses appears to be compatible with 1000's of other units and is cheaper then any memory stick or other removeable device I've ever seen. I imagine a device like this sitting next to your computer would be a more logical choice for only $169.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Maybe I can set it up as a server for my Audrey terminals.... the blind leading the blind, so to speak.
The GATOS project is very mature and all the Linux video drivers and TV capture features work flawlessly.
Combine that with a 120G harddrive and I never need to remember to set the VCR to record West Wing! :)
Oh god. Like what, now they give like 1500 hours of free time? Come on, the service still sucks ass.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Using Microsoft and crippled in the same sentence is overkill. If some people had as many defects as Microsoft software they'd have to have a telethon to raise money for a cure. Dig deep into your pockets to help Bill's kids.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I recently put together a box to do the same thing, ut $1500 it was not.
Shuttle S50 - $300
Celeron 1.8 - $100
256MB DDR - $75
80 GB HDD - $85
DVD (w/WinDVD) $50
Hauppage FM-TV tuner w/ remote - $100
SnapSteam SW - $40
--------------------
$750
It outputs to my TV, records what I want, and I can watch DVD, DIVX, VCD, MP3, CD, etc. PLUS I can watch any recorded show on any moachine on my network. What do I get for the other $750
pr0n, lost and lots of it.
The era "free as in freedom" is over. The new CBDTPA / TCPA / Palladium era is about to begin.
Ross Anderson on TCPA
http://cryptome.org/tcpa-rja2.htm
TCPA / Palladium Frequently Asked Questions
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/users/rja14/tcpa-faq.html
Microsoft Digital Rights Management Operating System - US Patent No. 6,330,670
http://cryptome.org/ms-drm-os.htm
Microsfot Digital Rights Management Operating System - US Patent No. 6,327,652
http://cryptome.org/ms-drm-os2.htm
Hollings' CBDTPA = TCPA Enablement Act
http://cryptome.org/tcpa-fritz.htm
Some very interesting quotes from the above documents:
"During my investigations into TCPA, I learned that HP has started a development program to produce a TCPA-compliant version of GNU/linux. I couldn't figure out how they planned to make money out of this. On Thursday, at the Open Source Software Economics conference, I figured out how they might.
Making a TCPA-compliant version of GNU/linux (or Apache, or whatever) will mean tidying up the code and removing whatever features conflict with the TCPA security policy. The company will then submit the pruned code to an evaluator, together with a mass of documentation for the work that's been done, including a whole lot of analyses showing, for example, that you can't get root by a buffer overflow.
The business model, I believe, is this. HP will not dispute that the resulting `pruned code' is covered by the GPL. You will be able to download it, compile it, check it against the binary, and do what you like with it. However, to make it into TCPA-linux, to run it on a TCPA-enabled machine in privileged mode, you need more than the code. You need a valid signature on the binary, plus a cert to use the TCPA PKI. That will cost you money (if not at first, then eventually).
Anyone will be free to make modifications to the pruned code, but in the absence of a signature the resulting O/S won't enable users to access TCPA features. It will of course be open to competitors to try to re-do the evaluation effort for enhanced versions of the pruned code, but that will cost money; six figures at least. There will likely be little motive for commercial competitors to do it, as HP will have the first mover advantages and will be able to undercut them on price. There will also be little incentive for philanthropists to do it, as the resulting product would not really be a GPL version of a TCPA operating system, but a proprietary operating system that the philanthropist could give away free. (There are still issues about who would pay for use of the PKI that hands out user certs.) The need to go through evaluation with each change is completely incompatible with the business model of free and open source software."
So make sure you tell everyone you know to prepare for the future.
The Stuckist Net
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/6/26740.html
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/35/26796.htm
consider dropping a Media Center PC.. now that would be a waste of money.
Seriously.. i copy my cd's because i want to listen to them at home, in my car and at work, and do not want to carry them around all the time. Not as some kind of backup scheme, because that's what i have insurance for.
I'm very sad to totally agree with your analysis.
... so that congress can bless the "proven Microsoft Way" and force the Microsoft "technology" onto the rest of us.
This isn't an attempt for Microsoft to sell PCs or Windows.
Instead, this is an attempt to gain lobby support from MPAA/RIAA
It all comes back to the Microsoft strategy - once you're locked in, you can complain... but you're still a paying customer...
This is being done to intentionally fail?
With slumping PC sales already, releasing this kind of product destined for failure, sets the stage for saying it can't be done to consumer apathy.
Sure. And 640K is all we'll ever need.
Didn't Gateway (or Gateway 2000 as they were known back then) try something like this (sans anti-copying technology) back in the Mid-90's?
If I remember correctly, they took one of their 'cow box' PCs, added a TV tuner, sound card, speakers, and a 25" monitor (which worked at an amazing resolution of, get this, 640x480!) and sold it as an overpriced home entertainment center. Gateway didn't sell too many of them, and I think history is about to repeat itself.
Quite frankly I don't think that PCs have much business in a home entertainment system, if for no other reason than people don't generally replace home entertainent components as frequently as PCs. For example, in 1992 I purchased a television, a VCR, and a PC. The PC lasted for about 2-2.5 years (including at least one upgrade), I still have and use both the TV and VCR.
Soon Microsoft's operating system will be free, not just from Linux competition, but because of media management revinue. Thier digital restrictions management (DRM) will collect viewing fees from which Microsoft will keep a cut. Can you say, "Blockbuster Video on steroids"?
It is a fairly simple business plan. They become a regular utility bill.
I'm guessing not many.
These new boxes will be like souped up TiVos, with the ability to play DVDs and MP3s. They still seem a bit expensive, despite all that functionality, but I suppose reduced clutter and a pretty interface are worth something.
So they can't burn DVDs. Big deal. The target market for these boxes won't care. My only question is: Why is the DVD-RW even in there?
$1500 for a PC that doesn't copy or play digital media?
Anyone who thinks about buying one of these should be kicked in the head and sent flying in an Apple Store, since they've obviously got money to burn. $1500 buys you a nice iMac or iBook (or even a low-end tower if you've already got a monitor).
...MS saying that they're not going to cripple PCs with restrictions over copying stuff? Add that to the list of stuff that MS marketing and PR have blatently lied about.
If you think education is expensive, you should try ignorance -- Derek Bok, president of Harvard
What the EULA's for those machines would be like. As if anyone would follow them, and I doubt most college students would.
;-) file that is getting passed around the dorm's network.
I don't think there will be much of a demand when they find out that they can't install a non-Mirosoft supported programs and codecs, as well as access the popular non-Mirosoft file formats. I can see people being upset at not being able to see or access the Divx
"Digital Restrictions Management" is more accurate, and has the right letters at the beginnings of the words. :-)
I didn't coin this; it's been floating around for a while, I think. But we would do well to push this term into the mainstream.
The evaluation of an action as 'practical' . . . depends on what it is that one wishes to practice.
Seriously, everyone is going to have a boatload of these things on their shelves, unless some poor geeks can be persuaded to load them with Linux.
to a Media Center PC.
But after reading this areticle there is no way I am going to buy it.
Tough luck Microsoft.
You lost a customer.
Hp and Microsoft announced today that they're updating an old idea for the 21st century.
...... "The PC Jr. - Media Center Edition"....
Following the IBM lead of many years ago they've created:
They're not "crippled PC's"...
They're "differently abled operating systems"...
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
What other company was named after its founder's penis?
why, exactly, would a capitalist not wish to find the best deal in his/her own favor? you're suggesting that capitalism implies some sort of ethic -- that you're supposed to play by rules, under which you don't try to take over the market, make money, etc.
... you win. you become a monopoly. it's unstable, so we add laws to make it seem stable.
... you've not looked at laws recently. it's just one more way of getting an advantage.
so, every 'good' capitalist should never add too much profit margin, ever misrepresent their product, or attempt to squash competition?
pardon the laughing, but no. every good capitalist will do whatever he/she can, until some competitor gets in the way, at which point battle over prices begins. or features. or laws. or anything to give them an advantage. in fact, anti-trust laws are just an add-on to keep the system running, because it isn't naturally stable. there is a recognized benefit to conglomeration and annihilation, which falls off when you become a little too big. but only if in the mean time the small companies learn to mavoeuver around you -- if you grow quickly enough and the small guys don't have time to get their little niches to fight back from
if you're going to claim it's not right for capitalists to ask for legislation that would ban competing products
capitalism is not about consumers. it's about market.
They dont say if the DRM will be software or hardware or a little of both. If it is just inface software, how hard will it be just to install a os without the DRM bullshit?
- You can make something they want, so that they choose to buy it
- You can make it legally mandatory, either by direct requirement, or by outlawing the alternatives.
Which approach do you think best describes the marketing plan for this product?Turing machines in the hands of private citizens are as dangerous to our current ruling class as were weapons in the hands of the peasants in feudal times. Next thing you know, we'll start having laws ignoring the constitution and restricting our right as individuals to keep and bear arms.
I am honestly confused. Why would MS and HP do such a thing. Granted I realize they are doing most of this to show the RIAA and other groups that they are trying to curb pirating but is that the only reason? Maybe I am just missing it but wouldnt things like this hurt Microsofts profits? I mean with money being tight everywhere, who is going to spring for a 1500 dollar computer when you can go to walmart and get one for 200. Last I checked most companies try to maximize profits. I am curious. Would love to hear ideas on why this is happening.
Have a look at this project @ SourceForge; Freevo
There are others, like DVR, MythTV, HomeDVR
And there are here and here
Really, we dont need another device - a PC will work for this...
El Gato is a USB, MPEG muxing in the hardware, low end device. Furthermore, it is not the only solution...
For something a little tastier, check out Formac's Studio DV/TV. It is FireWire (IEEE 1394) and isn't forced to MPEG the content in hardware because of the meager USB bandwidth that the El Gato device uses.
[UID-HeinzIntel]
As evidence, may I present the millions of AOL subscribers.
Hey! America OnLine *IS* the Internet! I saw it on their commercials, so it must be true!
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
Oh yeah...Clippy deservedly needed to die. Annoying little troll.
So, lets assume that you'll get close to $2000 worth of computer for your money. My only question is: why?
Do I have to turn in my geek credentials because I don't find TV on the PC all that compelling? I love DVDs on my laptop, and streaming audio and video, but we already have devices that are perfect to watch TV on... they're called televisions!. They have a simple UI and crash far less often than Windows does. We've had a box under the TV recording shows for years... Why does this box have to turn into a full-fledged computer just because we want to record these shows digitally now?
I have a TiVo and love using it, precisely because it doesn't feel like a computer when I'm using it! (Of course, it is -- the fact that I can upgrade the HD and add ethernet myself doesn't hurt, either.) When I want to rot my brain watching TV, I want it to just work, and I don't want to have to feel like I'm using a computer.
I always thought that Convergence meant that all of your dedicated media devices (which may actually be computers, but with a simpler UI) could talk to each other and exchange information, kind of like what Apple is trying to do with its iPod. Microsoft thinks Convergence means that all of your dedicated media devices become computers, running the latest MS OS, and with all of the problems and complications inherent in that. Of course, we know who's most likely to win this one...
Of course, the sad thing is that by making dedicated media devices more like computers and stuffing them chock-full of DRM badness, we'll end up making the actual computers more like dedicated media serving devices, since the same OS will run on both. :(
"Digital Rights Management" isn't really newspeak. It does exactly what it says: it allows the big media/entertainment (and now computing) companies to manage your rights, digitally.
is actually quite strong. The Tech-Report did an in-depth review of Nvidia and ATI digital-video software and picked ATI.
This HP P.O.S. hasn't even got a fan on the cpu, it uses a passive cooler and tries to draw the air over the cpu with the (very slow) power supply fan. I have to remove the case and run a boxfan next to it just so the damn thing will run until quitting time. They used some very low quality components and construction practices to save their bottom line that the computer is nearly unusable.
And both HP and Compaq were known for using proprietary components like RAM (no biggie since there are only 2 slots on the junky mobo in here anyway!)
If I was going to buy premade, I would definitely avoid HP at all costs.
Murphy was an optimist.
It would be worse if you dropped your cd, didn't notice, and someone else picked it up and listened to it without paying the author their due royalties.
The author was paid "their" due royalties at the time of purchase, just like the jewlery company already made its money when someone stumbled on the diamond ring you dropped. Artists deserve to be paid once, not twice.
...
...
quack. quack. quack! quack! quack!
DRM protects the consumer.
quack. quack. quack! quack! quack!
Why is Triangle Man so MEAN?
"I know this wasn't in the product all along," he said. "I think it was Microsoft being overcautious. I really think it's unfortunate because it does hamper the functionality and usability of the platform."
I wonder what HP's response was, when Microsoft told them they were going to cripple the machine ?
I know what your point was, but can we stop using this bastardized quote? Everybody and their dog has heard it, and there are more articulate ways of expressing your point. I swear I see it in about 50% of every slashdot article.
Thanks you.
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
Perhaps they just believe that there are *enough* people who don't use a computer to compute. They may well be right. My wife, e.g., uses it to edit music/art via commercial programs, and to word process, and for web access and e-mail. And that's about it.
But she's not going to get one of these! When it came time to change computers, I switched her over to a Mac. With a Linux partition. If Linux can get good enough, when she upgrades, it will be to a pure Linux machine. For now, it's to be Linux for internet access (so her Mac data isn't threatened by internet viruses), and the Mac for everything else. But I intend to use Open Office for the Word Processor (or possibly Star Office, after I check it out) and Mozilla for the browser. So she'll be half way converted before the year's out.
Still, the conversion can't happen until an art program as good a Deneba Canvas is available, and until a music program as good as Encore is available. But it's getting a LOT closer.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Actually ... that might be a good idea. If they use a hardware protection scheme instead of unduly restrictive laws, then I wouldn't have much trouble with it. Just as long as the restrictions only end up applying to *THEIR* content. I don't put any of their -ahem- garbage! -.- on my machine anyway.
And history shows that copy protecting something is a pretty sure way to cause it's long-term failure. I'd *like* it if the MPAA and RIAA failed. I'd shed no tears if MS joined them. But the main thing is that there'd be no reason for unreasonable laws affecting my use of my computer.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
You people crack me up. First I agree AOL sucks, but why do you think people are idiots for using it? There are a number of good reasons to use AOL:
1. It works and is fairly easy for most users to setup
2. Lots of access numbers
3. It is very user friendly
See most people just want to browse the internet and get some mail, maybe talk in the chat rooms and do some IM. These want to spend very little time understanding the innards of their computer and their OS's innards.
So please stop calling these people idiots.
And btw AOL is actually faster for common web sites than most ISP's as they cache the web pages.
OK... where's the details/facts?!
Is this really a version of Windows that won't allow you to run Winamp/Audiocatalyst etc? (XBox style - only runs digitally signed code)
Or just more restrictions on the bundled Windows Media Player?
Can't imagine it being 'only run signed code' - How can they stop you running Winamp/AudioCatalyst/Gnutella/CloneCD without stopping you running all other Win32 software?
Maybe it's a driver-level attempt to stop CD ripping/digital audio recording. But how the fuck do they expect to stop you playing an downloaded MP3? Only allow signed apps to play audio? What about games etc?....
If filename contains *.mp3, refuse to open/copy?
You only get the 1500 hours for 45 days, so you'd have to be online 33.3333 hours a day...
find ~your -name '*base* | xargs chown
I like this quote:
"Everyone's been waiting for the great convergence product," Duboise said.
I think by "everyone" he means, software and hardware makers looking to generate some sales. I don't think he was talking about consumers. I can't think of a single person that would be interested in this. If this does sell, it would not be because of the advantages it offers, it will be because people were not aware of what they were actually buying and the rights they were throwing away with the purchase. You can do everything this has to offer now for less in price.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
Dude, you're getting screwed!
Sincerely,
Media Center PC #1138
... is that some people are actually going to buy these things.
"Everything that can be invented has been invented." -- Charles H. Duell, Commissioner, U.S. Office of Patents, 1899.
What do I get for the other $750
;)
ehh looking at the description of the HP version, the answer appears to be:
DVD +R/RW drive, twice the RAM, a better processor, a 200 watt Klipsch sound system, a Ge Force4... and a whole bunch of annoying DRM crap
Windows has been crippled ever since v3.0. Doesn't matter what PC you install it on.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
-and I'm a fucking retard.
clap clap clap
Hiii Carly !!!
Yeah, I hit rock bottom the day I woke up and decided to tear our PC's in half and sell them for 3x the old price.
they want whats best for their pocketbook, rightly so. As soon as we as customers convince them,which IS best, I am sure they will blow with the financial wind. The real problem is 'consumer' apathy, as long as a company can make a good profit shoveling shit down consumers'
throats why should they try any harder ? When we make a the fall-out of a poor decision regarding customer rights a large financial hit things will shape up.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Microsoft has a monopoly they are one of the most genuinely customer driven companies in America. They really do give people what they want. Right now people want easy digital media but the RIAA and MPAA won't give it to them for fear of piracy. Offering two OSes one with heavy anti piracy features and one without gives Microsoft a risk free way of seeing whether the RIAA and MPAA want to step up to the plate and offer enough reasonably priced media to get people to trade away their freedom.
Really the success of this platform is up to the content providers. If they make movies available for $2 and CDs available for a $1 people who like entertainment may very well buy. If they charge $29.99 for movies and $15 for CDs then it dies.
"Digital Restrictions Management" sounds fair (i.e. if you're not breaking the law, you have nothing to fear (yah right!)) even though they aren't.
A better ancronym for DRM is "Digital Rights Mutilation" since it mulilates your fair use rights, your first sale rights, and the right to make your own content without having someone else license it to you.
IBM tcpa , aka palidrome strategy worked. Millions and millions of stupid consumers bought them and still do not even know it. Here are their laptops, and desktops that are crippled. Notice they use the word secure and trustworthy in describing these. Now how many of the ignorant average computer users have had virus's? Wouldn't tcpa/drm appeal to them with words like secure? Scary as hell.
I remember reading a comment here about consumers will not buy this or will not put up with it. Well, it turns they already are without even knowing it.
http://saveie6.com/
What business flunky thought of this idea?
This is a product that early adopters and technically savvy people would buy, and it should be marketed as such.
By imposing all these restrictions on this device HPQ (ticker symbol for HP and Compaq post-merger) loses the "early adopter-enthusiast" crowd.
This product is doomed, and is a sign of things to come from HPQ.
Make yourself some money and short the stock.
-ted
These computers are going to be crippled with uber-restrictive copy control stuff, will be moderately expensive, and probably won't perform as well as a standard PC to boot.
Could it be that HP and MS are dooming it to fail, in order to weaken the platform of the MPAA/RIAA/Content Control zealots?
No, this will only be a dud until someone cracks the copy protection and makes it available on the internet. There will probably even be mod-chips. While illegal here in the US, I imagine that there are plenty of people outside "the land of the free," (hrmph!) that would be able to buy them. After the crack, I predict that these will take off faster than TiVo. I'd buy one if the interface was right. I hate the DVR software I am using now. Because of my ancient TV tuner (All-In-Wonder PRO), I am stuck with ATI Multimedia Center.
what side is buttered...
"Jodie Cadiuex, marketing manager of Windows Media Center, defends Microsoft's decision to copy protect TV programs recorded to the PC's hard drive.
"Microsoft is in a leadership position here where we've got an opportunity to help Hollywood feel comfortable with digital distribution and to help them develop (digital rights management) solutions so consumers can have content everywhere," she said. "We have two relationships we have to balance here: the consumer who wants the content and Hollywood so they feel comfortable with that process and don't clamp down and make that impossible."
How many systems does hollywood buy and how much of your bottom line do they supply ?? Make hollywood happy and Fark the consumers and see how many boxes sell... Fark hollywood and make the consumer happy and hollywood WILL STILL produce movies for whatever system is out there, they have no choice..either that or close shop ?!?
It is so obvious that they are depending on the government forcing the use of the DRM that they are willing to bet AGAINST their own customer base...Last time I saw somthing like this was IBM and MicroChannel Bus, they had such great success there I can see why M$ would be anxious to copy them...
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I use my computer to:
Read Slashdot and Hotmail
Look at pr0n and other cool web sites
Play computer games
Listen to MP3s that I download from Kazaa.
Occasionally some "computing" happens there but my broadband-connected computer is basically a TV replacement device.
Now, I would never buy a mass-market PC like HP or Dell for home use (though I recommend Dell to non-geeks looking for a system) but I can totally see how some fool might buy one of these things, based on the media blitz we'll see around XMas.
In the inevitable lawsuits, HP will be left holding the bag while Microsoft laughs all the way to the bank. It amazes me that there are still companies gullible enough to partner with Microsoft on hardware. (Like have you seen Nvidia's stock lately?)
I know you are right, and the link between them and Microsoft just occurred to me... maybe I'm just slow.
MS: buy the OS, install it on ONE computer, and you can never install it on another computer.
RIAA: buy the music, and play it on ONE player, and you can never play it on any other player. If you buy a new player, you need to buy new music.
That's what they'd both like, and sadly it seems they'll buy enough politicians to make it law, if not reality.
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Yeah. Of course, this is the industry having (and giving it to you) both ways. When a kid microwaves my stellar CD, own the physical item, and if I want a new one I have to buy it. If I want to duplicate the physical item and let my wife play an MP3 in the car while I listen to the CD at home, I suddenly only own the license to use it in one place.
Even Microsoft are better than that - if I toast my Office CDs, they'll replace them for the cost of mailing a new CD out to me - because I've licensed the software.
You know what's sad. There's nothing you can do about it. There are to many people that are ignorant to the Microsoft deal. So when microsoft puts something new out, it just sells. And stuff like this is assumed to be the standard and just the way it will be. I for one, want nothing else to do with them or their business pratices. Grant it, every company will do what they can get away with. But microsoft can get away with anything, so you're just screwed.
No, they want money. More money than they deserve. More money that is appropriate. And more money than we will pay. They are used to robbing you blind, but that day is over. And there really is nothing they can do about it.
I'm wondering, though, if these products fail: Maybe, just maybe, that will be the wake-up call to both the general "consumer" and the tech biz that following RIAA and MPAA ain't such a good idea. Could it be that a spectacular failure will give *AA such a black eye that no one will pay any attention to them? Anyway, we can hope!
This makes it sound very much like the primary motivation for creating this system is to make friends with the RIAA & MPAA. I think customer satisfaction is secondary to them.
I think you're wrong. There's already a power struggle going on for digital rights management, and, if the RIAA can't have their way through legislation or hardware compliance, do you honestly think they won't simply push the crippled-disc idea even further? There will come a day, probably very soon, where watermarked and encrypted (DVD-A) discs are the rule, not the exception.
Microsoft looks to be Covering Your Ass here, and appears to be merely paying lip service to the record industry. Why on earth would they deliberately alienate the consumer?
- A.P.
"Remember when the U.S. had a drug problem, and then we declared a War On Drugs, and now you can't buy drugs anymore?"
And, of course, Hauppauge, nVidia and ATi have products too but their software is pretty lacking..." Yeah maybe back in like 1990. ATI has had fuckin awesome software for its All In Wonder and TV Cards. It's supported the Gemstar Guide + before there even was a Tivo or ReplayTV.
Hot grits. This is Slashdot. Rational dialogue does not compute. All your base.
Seems to me all you need is one manufacturer to refuse to build in the DRM and the Free Market should take care of the rest. Who would buy a crippled PC?
I might lay down and let them take my freedoms but I am sure as hell not going to pay them while they do it. I'll be a little more blunt, since on the off chance the person responsible for this reads this, they are obviously very very dense. There is no way in hell I will pay for a computer that was designed not to work. If they gave it to me, I might accept it for parts.
The problem with this approach (at least as far as Hollywood is concerned) is that both the hardware and the software companies have vested interests in making Hollywood's content available on their platforms. Witness the DVD player phenomenon. Despite Hollywood's protests there isn't a single DVD manufacturer (well maybe Sony) that doesn't have methods that allow for disabling region encoding and the other Hollywood induced crap. In fact, Apex has actually gained a following and an impressive marketshare by making this sort of thing easy to do. Apple also makes a living making ripping CDs easy to do. They even have devoted whole advertising campaigns to this concept.
Microsoft is a somewhat different case. Microsoft has a big enough user base that they are trying to push Hollywood into using their proprietary formats. Their idea is to get Hollywood to use Microsoft formats exclusively, and they promise to protect Hollywood's content if they do. This way you will have to use Windows to view Hollywood content. This isn't likely to work either, however, because there are simply too many legacy devices to switch formats, and (as you said yourself) digital medium is the great equalizer.
Even Microsoft are better than that - if I toast my Office CDs, they'll replace them for the cost of mailing a new CD out to me - because I've licensed the software.
What shipping method do they use? They wanted me to pay $30 for a replacement VC++ 6.0 CD.
I pledge allegiance to the flag...
of the Corporate States of America...
MSX... MSX... MSX!
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
These guys are marketing geniuses :)
This space left intentionally blank.
"Instead of a car, we will sell you an airplane. Isn't that great? BTW, you can only fly where we want you to."
Table-ized A.I.
I've seen NZ$5 in the past. Perhaps they're sending you a whole box by courier...
And $30 is still much, much cheaper than, "buy it again", which is what the RIAA would tell you.
But the RIAA can't do that. After all, it'd have to give at-cost CDs to everyone who dumped their vinyl, instead of minting it.
I wouldn't pay even $500 for a piece of crap like this, much less $1500.
If I felt like it, I could build a lot better, for a lot less...
What crack smoking weasel came up with this brilliant idea?
Technically inferior, restrictive operations, and more expensive than a generic equivalent. There's only one word that comes to mind: DIVX. Yeah, the one that cost Circuit City millions, not the video codec.
Serves 'em right to lose their ass, and they will.
you loosers. Don't you see it makes life easier for "normal" people? I am getting one because it's far to elite to pass off. Who doesn't want instant access to entertainment and streaming audio and video in their living room. Plus these units add to the decor. Sure you can spend 1 year hacking linux to do the same thing but I'd much rather spend the measely $1,500 than waste my life trying to copy cat what real programmers can do. Get a job you hippies!
For now, it's to be Linux for internet access (so her Mac data isn't threatened by internet viruses), and the Mac for everything else.
Good lord... she has to REBOOT to check her e-mail?
You better hope she never finds out how much of an unnecessary PITA you're making her life...
I have a strong feeling that there's a reason that Compaq-controlled Compaq/HP is doing this under the HP label...
In SOVIET RUSSIA... erm...NSA AMERICA, the Internet logs onto YOU!
As a private reseller, I've already built several "home-media computers" for clients. They cost well below $1500 to build a very good one, and have full TiVo-esque functionality, no copy protection, plus you can use it as a full fledged computer too. With a quick Visual-Basic frontend children can use it without a hassle, and channels can be password protected. I've been building machines like this for awhile now and barely make any profit on it. If this becomes Microsoft's new multi-million dollar product I am going to cry.
Considering the $1500-2000 price, it'll still be a dud even with the DRM cracked. They're marketing this as a high-end system with value-added features. Sure, anybody can build a DVR box for half the price with an ATI or Hauppauge tuner, but a GUI that works on a high res computer monitor pretty much sucks for a settop box. The big feature with XP Media Center edition is the dual mode GUI. One for regular PC use, and a simpler GUI for DVR/settop box use. There's a freeware project called Media Box that does pretty much the same thing. The other big question mark is the program guide. Tivo is $10/mo. ReplayTV is about the same or $200 for a lifetime subscription. Nothing in the article about whether there's a free program guide.
Microsoft Microwave has caused an exception 4675636B4D53 in module DOOR_OPEN_DETECT.DLL
Please leave the room now and turn off the power to the unit from your dwelling's main circuit breaker.
American's expectations for reliable, functional, secure systems have been destroyed by Microsoft. I can't wait until they revamp the air traffic control system.
The Russians have won. They have made the world a cesspool of distrust, greed, fear and hate.
Not to mention that this crippled box is priced out of range of the supposed target market -- do YOU know any kids about to go off to college who can afford an extra $800 over the price of an equivalent standard PC, just to get a more compact digital entertainment center into the bargain??
Which means the very people whose "sharing" they're trying to curb are the ones who WON'T be buying it. What's wrong with this picture??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
OK, /. conspiracy theorests: how does HP play into this? They're the folks actually pushing silicon and plastic on this one - they stand to lose *big time* if this flops.
I think you should direct your concern to HP: why are they shipping such a device? If MS doesn't provide the correct s/w platform, HP could go Sony's route and do the "right thing."
Okay, that's another $250. So what do I get for the OTHER $500??
:)
Geez, you mean DRM costs $500? Forget it!
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Nah.. didn't you notice the price tag on those machines? Clearly, it really stands for Digital Restrictions Marketing!!
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
i hope this load of horseshit never makes them a stinkin dollar...
burn mother burn...
I agree with you completely. Unfortunate about the flamebait mod.
Think nothing is impossible? Try slamming a revolving door.
I just saw C++ .NET at Best Buy for like $79...they aren't giving me much of a deal...i just am not paying for the ugly box that microsoft charges me for :)
"Full sources for linux currently runs to about 200kB compressed" --Linus Torvalds 31-Jan-1992
Considering that, and considering that the vcr and tape recorders never killed the entertainment industry, I can only conclude that the *AA is actually attacking something entirely different than piracy.
I conclude, that because of the falling cost of the necessary tools to make movies/music of just as high audio/visual quality of the companies that the *AA represent, I think their ultimate goal is to artifically shut out these soon to be emerging competitors. I believe that is the true reason the *AA wants to gain more and more control over your computer.
Right now the *AA is recruiting our political representitives and Microsoft to help them. To politicians they give money under the table, passes to private celebrity parties, etc. To Microsoft they are offering legal solidification of their Monopoly.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Can't think of a better pair who are better
at crippling products, intentionally and
unintentionally.
We need to hit HP/Compaq in the pocketbook! It these stripped boxes are not purchased then supply and demand would remedy this problem.
A company that makes devices for diabetics, and the data-management software to help them communicate that data with the Health Care Professionals has already trade-marked the name, and has been using it for many years.
The comment about naming it FreeStyle is just plain bogus, do your research first:
www.therasense.com
www.icd2.com
Of course, this might be taken as a sign that Microsoft is moving into the health-care field, and making non-gaming devices. But that would be plain stupid.
Hey, it was *her* idea.
I suspect that it isn't necessary, but I don't know the current Mac OS, and I didn't suggest it. (And she already *knows* I'm pushing Linux at her at every opportunity. And the first internet connection that I set up was on the Mac side.)
So I'm probably safe.
I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
Media Center PCs?
is it just me or dosnt the whole "anti-copying mechanisms built-in to them -- ie can't burn recorded TV shows to DVD, or even copy and play them back on other PCs" thing really take media bit right out of the title?
Don't need a new word, we already have "gag".
Maybe HP will call this the DNR2002 ... I would surely pull-the-plug on this terminally bad idea.
I'd even encourage not releasing any potential hacks that enable sharing between units -- let this spawn of Microsoft die before December 25th
You can get this at walmart for $200 http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.gsp?product _id=1957333&cat=96356&type=19&dept=0&path= 0
All employees must wash hands before using the bathroom. - The Mgmt.
Why would anyone waste their money on a watered down Pee Cee, when they can get a smoking iMac that will rip DVD's and handle all your digital needs with free software like iTunes, iPhoto, iDVD, etc...
That was a combined quote from Twelve Monkeys and Fight Club. They fit together nicely because Fight Club was referencing Twelve Monkeys.
Anyway, the quotes are more of statement on our consumer society as a whole. And I personally find them to be quite accurate. If you find them offsensive, perhaps that is because they hit a little too close to home.
I bet if you think hard for a second, you can think of some consumer good that you'd like to buy. Now ask yourself why you want it. Not just the petty reasons but the deeper reasons. The ones you push to the back of your mind and never talk about. Before you buy your next screwdriver with miniature built-in radar devices, remind yourself that the things you own end up owning you.
But in all fairness, who started all this mess, and who keeps raising the ante? Here's a clue: almost every story on Slashdot that has anything to do with the RIAA/MPAA and ways they might seek to protect their property, there's a flurry of responses that have this shortsighted "hah, we'll show them," attitude. This whole scenario is precisely the reason I've always advocated that the most effective solution is to CUT OFF THE MUSIC. Don't buy it. Stealing it does nothing to further the cause.
while i agree that the people who will buy these will be the people that want to play this copyrighted mainstream audio, even the MPAA and RIAA can't be stupid enough to believe that there is an absolutely assured way of copyrighting? as soon as something is copyprotected, it is cracked, no matter what. a perfect example of this in the analog arena is when the recording industry was so worried about how cassettes were going to ruin the industry because everyone could start making illegal copies. so they put that little freakin' hole in them that makes it "impossible" to copy onto tapes you buy. how long was it before people figured out that you could put a piece of tape over that hole and then record just fine? copy protection doesn't work, plain and simple. so as soon as they do start having all of these watermarked dvd's and stuff, we will have software/hardware that can crack it. again, plane and simple.
in response to myself, maybe the MPAA and the RIAA really are that stupid. (by the way, i am the promotional manager for a small college webcast station http://www.plu.edu/k103 and the RIAA has already managed to f#ck us with the whole per song copyright surcharge thing... i just wanted to gripe about that).
Stupidity should be as painful as Windows.
"Damn the man, save the Empire!"
-- "We're only gonna die from our own arrogance, that's why we might as well take our time..." -Bad Religion
Bust Buy er Best Buy may very well not have commission sales but they do have a vested interest in not allowing your fair use rights.
They are the ones in fact which are also owned by a CD crippling maker.
Get your Unix fortune now!
Ph33r m3!!!
Doesn't work.
1. Napster started
2. RIAA complained about losing sales due to copying. "And in other news, CD sales are way up from last year"
3. RIAA sued Napster
4. Boycot. Stop buying CD's.
5. RIAA: "See, we were right, nobody is buying CD's anymore, because copying is so easy".
6. New copy protection, new laws,...
No, not buying CD's did NOT work. buying lots of CD's did not work either.
Same goes for legislation: The US Congress has no power of Great Britian or South Korea, and the combined non-US-market is still larger than the US. The Asian chipmakers will just start a special (and therefore more expensive) product line for the US, and keep turning out their normal stuff for everybody else. If Peru and Venezuela and - to a lesser extent - Germany are actively switching away from Linux to get out of the grip of an American software monopoly, what makes anybody think that they will suddenly rush out and buy American controled hardware?
Anyway, I've just about had it with HP. I'm just glad I bought my RPN calculator back in the days when it was a real tech company with real tech products and put hard-core quality before shareholder value...
How many of us (and by "us" I mean the technically-literate) have a strong influence on the buying decisions of friends and family? I know that I get asked to help many, many of my non-technical acquaintances decide what nature of PC or other home technology device to buy.
Given that most of us would be fairly dismissive of these devices, it follows that our influence in the market for them is pretty strong. Bear that in mind next time you feel we're in a minority...
This comment was prompted in part by overhearing a conversation in PC World when I was buying a new laptop yesterday. A non-techie was looking at laptops and commented "this one doesn't have Intel Inside... isn't that bad?". Her techie friend explained the pros and cons of AMD and Intel to her so that she could make a decision. Her purchase. His influence.
Anna B
I could have sworn I had a computer like this, only without the DRM crap. The first (and last) pre-built computer I ever bought was an NEC Ready 9619 (or some-odd number). Granted it was built of sub-standard integrated sound/video and a POS modem, it was stereo and had a IR remote control to use it's CD-Rom in the manner of a home stereo CD player, and was marketted as a Multimedia PC. I know things have advanced a bit (5.1 sound, DivX, DVD...etc), but I would much rather slap an IR sensor into my present system, by some good speakers, and forget about the DRM crap than even giving an instance of thought to buying crap like their trying to push. I think I'm gonna hafta tell my father to prepare to sell short on his Compaq stock and show him this article before he loses anymore of his hard earned money (had most of his portfolio in MCI as a past employee). Unfortunately, due to the ignorance of society (success of iMac for example) and greediness of corporate America, unless some drastic actions start happenning, we may all be doomed. I think we nerds,techies, and people-with-IQ-above-double-digits need to start doing more to inform the ignorant public.
DMCA? Palladium? Next you'll be telling me I can't use my digital camera to take pictures of my kid to email to family
OK here goes...
Ithankyou.
Ali
Ph33r m3!!!
I have not yet seen any evidence supporting the oft seen mantra Microsoft/Enron/Worldcom alone is sitting on enough cash that they could do XYZ. Sony, Disney and the rest of the RIAA/MPAA crowd do have a strong vested interest in DRM and could make money off it in the short term. Microsoft risks further alienating their shrinking user base with further decreases in functionality and interoperability, but must desperately need the cash flow to try betting on DRM:
First off, 1998's book keeping produced a discrepancy of about $20 billion:
Secondly, the world economy is and has been sluggish and the U.S. economy is in a recession, it's probably safe to say that the $18 billion loss from 1998 wasn't recovered in 1999. If the same accounting practices continued up till the Enron publicity, then it's safe to say that a similar adjustment (say $10-25 billion loss per year) can be applied for the years since 1998. Doesn't this co-incide with Bill's sudden interest in not being CEO?
Next, sales of MS-Windows, MS-Office, and Xbox have all been underwhelming recently. Likewise, MS-Outlook, MS-Exchange, MS-Passport, MS-IIS have all been rated three thumbs down in this age of increasing network security. It's hard to see which products are bringing in money for the company or which of their products even have a future. Linux is in the server room and catching up on the desktop. Macintosh OS X just did a complete end-run around NT,Win2000.
Lastly, Microsoft is a company that has grown through acquisition of products and smaller companies rather than innovation. Most MS 'innovations' or their key components have been acquired from outside by deals (Access, Frontpage, Explorer, DOS, disk compression) or via BSD-like licenses. Innovation leads to long term viability, see 3M for example. Acquisition-only leads to a typical dot-bomb stock comet, see Framfab for example.
Combine the first three above and odds are that this puts Microsoft into the red for 4 years running. At best, there are occasional visits to the break even point, but these visits wouldn't do more than barely dent the accumulated debt. The last point says stick a fork in it, it's done.
So while Microsoft may have an interest in DRM, I don't believe they have the cash to pull it off single handedly. That looks like pure myth. More likely, looks like they'll need MPAA/RIAA to help get all the friends that money can buy to avoid liquidation.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
How is the MS management serving the best interests of their shareholders with this action?
Provided you can't pirate the OS MS has nothing to gain by impeding the copying/access to content, however a new "No mon, no fun" OS will not sell.
${YEAR+1} is going to be the year of Linux on the desktop!
Well, if you dropped your copy of 'Stranger in a Strange Land' down a storm drain, you'd expect to go out and buy a new one, wouldn't you? Or do you routinely (and illegally) photocopy all your books, too? Sorry, I don't agree with this argument. Steve.
Nature always obeys her own laws - Leonardo da Vinci
Is the crap on tv that important to you people that you must record every second of it and save it for posterity? I'm sure that your life will go on if you miss an episode of Friends.
I mean, I like the show too, quite a bit actually, but if I miss an episode, I'm not going to spend much time worrying about being lost in the storyline. And if Coke decides to spend a little money to have one of their cans in the show rather than a Pepsi can, I'm not going to off myself in the name of anti-corporatism. Perhaps we could all focus our efforts and concern on something that matters a little more in the long run.
Ignore this issue and it will die the death it deserves. DRM on your PC won't happen anytime soon. If you want proof, look at Circuit City's failed DiVX format. The market sets the price, and the market has already said that it won't pay for something again that it already owns.
See most people just want to browse the internet and get some mail, maybe talk in the chat rooms and do some IM. These want to spend very little time understanding the innards of their computer and their OS's innards.
And it's these very same people that provide a big huge petri dish for viruses and trojan horses, due to to their lack of understanding (or lack of wanting to understand).
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Same way they sold x-box.
Two words:
Exclusive Content.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
music drm -> copyright licenses -> pricing for replacement copies -> pricing for visual c++
I just saw C++ .NET at Best Buy for like $79
The $79 per seat price applies only to the toy compiler that might as well be an interpreter, not to the C++ optimizing compiler. The optimizing compiler is available only as part of Visual Studio .NET ($1,079).
Will I retire or break 10K?
I wrote:
> The best thing that could happen with these
> crippled PCs would be product placement on the
> next Godzilla movie.
I'm sorry, what I meant to say was:
The best thing that could happen with these crippled PCs would be product placement *for Godzilla's enemies* on the next Godzilla movie.
Simple product placement on a G movie won't get your company destroyed. You have to make him mad.
Godzilla to Microsoft:
"If you can't take the heat, RUN!"
From the Godzilla 2000 trailer Tristar tried so hard to hide.
Or at least, interestingly. I'm really not that hardcore of a geek -- I'm just about to learn how to install / config multiple HDDs (under Windows, no less) this coming weekend, and I haven't worked with a real command-line language since DOS 6.22 -- so I'm a bit anxious about jumping into Linux. But I'd at least like to find out what all the hubbub is about, especially since it seems like Linux is finally approaching its critical mass.........
:)
A good friend of mine who gave it a shot (and is very similar to me, in terms of technical background and disposition) says it's still not that much fun to use, and that a lot of the tools out there aren't as friendly as Windows. But at the very least, I would like to explore Linux as a media / file storage platform -- the whole Windows Media Player debacle has really pissed me off in the past few months, and I have no intention of letting a damn COMPANY tell me what I can or can't do with my files (be they warezed, ripped or 100% legit).
So we'll see where this takes me......... should be interesting, to say the least.