Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Freon
Veramocor writes "MSNBC.com has an article posted from the WSJ about MS's new plan for living room domination, codenamed Freon. Freon will be capable of 'playing games but also offering television capabilities, such as pausing live TV and recording shows onto a computer hard drive.' The article then goes on to explain future potential business plans for XBox incarnations. The system does seem to have some great advantages. I must question their naming question however, we all know what a disaster the actual chemical Freon was. Here's to hoping, Cheers!" We mentioned the Xbox's planned evolution the other day, too, but without the fancy codename.
If freon contains CFCs and eats up the ozone layer, what will MS Freon do?
Destroy all my linux distribution CDs?
Quote "I worry about what I call feature creep -- layering too many things into a product so the original intent of the product gets lost,"
And I thought they were talking about Windows!
Just you're average nitpicker.
This proves that Microsoft wants to take over your refrigerator as well.
This would take the X-box one step closer to a place on my entertainment shelf.
What I would like to do ideally is to take my whole DVD collection and copy it to a hard drive. Then, I would like to have the X-box (Freon, whatever) come up with a menu and let me select one of the movies on its hard drive.
There are of course copyright issues with this (what keeps me from going to blockbuster, and conveniently backing up my rental to this box?).. but they can be worked around.
Anyone know if the X-box can be modified to do this yet?
p.s. Freon was not such a disaster. I'd have loved to have an exclusive patent to Freon for a few years.
What we need is a GPL-licenced games console hardware design, built from relatively common components, that can be assembled by the user, or bought.
:-)
It wouldn't have to be very high-powered either, I would suggest an 68030 as the main CPU, with two 68000's one each as a sound and graphics processor - that's more processing power than is in a lot of the games in your local arcade, and perfectly adequate for the sort of games that most hackers like to play, (I.E. RPGs, beat-em-ups, shoot-em-ups, etc).
Just another of my excellent ideas
I like the name. It reminds me of something else all right thinking people wanted to rid the world of.
is it just an XBox with an additional bt878 + Philips Tuner? if so then it'd be cool to have xawtv and ffmpeg running on the forthcoming "XBox Linux"
Microsoft can only dominate your living room if you own a television.
What happens to all those people who shelled out almost $400 at the begining of the xboxes life?
Do they now have to cough up another $500 for a X-Tivo just so they can play any new games?
Releasing new box after new box, and cutting off your established user base isn't going to win this system any fans...
At least an old pc can still play new games, albeit at lower resolutions, will the old x-box play new games, or will they handicap the new games so they aren't as impressive on the new box?
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
It seems like Microsoft was held hostage by Mr Freeze. (Batman rulez!)
The name says it all: All those fancy Microsoft stuff will eventually Freeze up! (BSOD)
The entire point of the console market is as follows:
one: cheap
two: uniform hardware (or as close to it as possible)
three: a long upgrade cycle (about 5 years)
four: sell hardware at a loss or paper thin margins to make money back on software
My guess is that this will turn out to be the jack of all trades, but master of none. If they sell this thing cheap enough to be a successful console, then they'll lose money for every set top boxer. If they sell it at a respectable profit, it won't be a successful console. Granted, they could simply make it X-Box compatible, but then anyone willing to spring for a set top will probably buy them separately to get better features, or taylor their setup to their own needs. Not to mention the households like mine that have a dedicated gaming TV (nothing spectacular, really) so that other people can watch movies et al whilst the gamers game.
BlackGriffen
think that just about says it all tbh
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
"The Xbox console isn't profitable for the Redmond, Wash., company and its costs are believed to be higher than Sony's, partly because of the hard drive and a version of its powerful Windows operating system included with each machine."
Oh cry me a river. Like Microsoft is losing money because of all the billions they're pouring into the miraculous X-Box Bastardized Windows Operating System. Sure, maybe the hard disk is a lotta coin, but the cost of putting Windows on a console? Catastrophic.
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
It just due their plans to use Duron instead of Intel chips...
You'd think that TiVo has some sort of patent on this kind of thing....
Oh wait....thats right....
OurCourtSystem: Money=Influence Microsoft=Money, therefore Microsoft=Influence. Patents and other such laws no longer apply!
Anyways...seriously...does TiVo (or someone) have this patented?
Microsoft is running out of destructive chemicals/materials to use as product codenames.
Here are some suggestions so they can continue to innovate:
Plutonium - the "most powerful" platform
Asbestos - Microsoft's new embedded platform
Acrylamide - for next generation restaurant machinery
Lead Paint Chips - top-secret, pervasive computing initiative
... that they probably named this product "freon" in a feeble attempt at establishing a connection between use of the product and being "free".... or something equally market-savvy and brain-dead.
Interesting. According to this (note the URL, someone has a sense of humor) MS would turn down feature requests that didn't improve the Xbox's "gaming" performance/ability. I'm glad to see that that was all a lot of bull shit.
python -c "x='python -c %sx=%s; print x%%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))%s'; print x%(chr(34),repr(x),chr(34))"
It will destroy any other equipment which may circumvent DRM in your living room.
like VCR
I think that some of the marketing/PR people of MS have been sick / on holidays / away these times.
Palladium : was originally the name of the statue of Pallas-Athenas, which was supposed to protect the city of Troie. Which was later invaded by greeks which used a subterfuge which will be known for centuries as trojan horses.
Freon : according to this web page, apart from evident utility in refigerators, "Only decades later did people realize that such chlorofluorocarbons endangered the ozone layer of the entire planet." and, even worse for MS : "The trade name Freon® is a registered trademark belonging to E.I. du Pont de Nemours & Company (DuPont)."
#include "coucou.h"
Company makes product which is thought to increase revenue! Seriously, what's the point of this "news". Companys make products all the time, it doesn't mean you have to buy them or it will increase world domination. This is now law, it's consumer choice (ok, ok, there's that little "monopoly" thing"). But that's mostly MS-centric thinking.
;)
Word on the street - Nike to make new shoe; increases running speed!
Kodak to make picutes more sentimental! Kodak moments to increase!
Lexus is rumored to make an expensive-looking car, and charge a lot of money for it!
What Linux (as a community) REALLY needs to do is create a sexy commercial featuring a scantily-clad Britney Spears doing an 'apt-get install' with wild camera angles and dance music. I'm thinking directed by Hype Williams, fish-eyed lens and all. Because we all know that advertising is the only REAL way to increase market share...or something.
Oh shit! The commercial will also have to feature this guy:
http://www.thelinuxpimp.com/
Trust me, no matter how monopolistic M$ will try to be (or is), teenagers will flock to a sexy OS.
Hmmm...so this is a bit off-topic. The point is, new M$ products don't excite me or qualify as news. Unlike a sexy linux/tux commercial. Did I say sexy? 'Cause I meant sexy. As in sex. Sexy.
"Uh, how about no, ok Scott?" -Dr. Evil
Most folk'll never lose a toe, and then again some folk'll...
Microsoft expect to lose money on the box and make on going money when you are on the net playing games or maybe just surfing with a souped up copy of Explorer. So it's not likely to be free-on at all.
Some marketing genius says: well lets attack the negative and code name it Freon.
another marketing genius says: but isn't freon an unpopular gas?
the first marketing genius: But people will think that it is FREE ON, did you see what I did there? Did you see that?
second genius:Hey, the number one marketing word is FREE. You are a genius.
first genius (smug mode on): Hey, I'm living proof that Micro$oft recruit from the top.
consider coffee a lubricant that helps one penetrate the coding zone
Read books Go see live music Write letters Stick that up your DRM, Bill!
--- Yx3 = Delilah ---
Microsoft Mercury Proxy Server: safe and solid solution for internet security
Q: What happens when freon is in normal room temperature?
A: It turns vapour
Freon isn't very good for you...
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
This must be their latest attempt to kill Linux by wiping out all the penguins from the planet using Freon.
It wasn't until the NES rose out of the console market's ashes did things kick back in gear. One thing that was great about the NES was it was stable and long lived. The same goes for the next market leader, Playstation.
Microsoft could very well risk killing the entire console market if it introduces too much confusion and churn into it. If they make consoles as complicated as PCs, a lot of buyers may just be turned off. Think of all the people, right down to the poorest you know, that have a console but no computer in their house.
This article didn't really say a whole lot about where things are headed. Lots of speculation, but I'm sure the X-Box team doesn't know a whole lot themselves yet. I'm still not convinced that the hard drive is really worthwhile for the price range. I can see some benefits for online gaming, but with sufficient RAM it shouldn't be a necessity.
I think the idea of replacing the TV with the X-Box is a really good one for a lot of obvious reasons, but unless they provide a CD or DVD burner, there's no way I'd toss my VCR. You simply want to archive stuff (favorite episodes and such), and if you've got an X-Box hard drive full of MP3's or whatever, you're not going to want to go around deleting things prematurely. If they make it in to a full TiVO-like service and provide a really huge hard drive (and a burner too!) they would have a potentially killer product on their hands.
I think what'll be really interesting is to see whose online gaming model will play out better. Sony's model is more anarchic, while Microsoft's is better planned and more centralized. Kind of like the difference between Id and Blizzard. In my experience, the random Quake server is a hell of a lot better than a Battle.net game of Starcraft, but we'll see if this will extend to console-based online gaming.
I'm betting that the online gaming thing won't become critical at least until the PS3 hits. It's pretty much a fringe thing right now, but I have no doubt that it'll become much more important once the console makers really get their acts together. Still, I always think of console gaming as being a lot more social than computer gaming, with a bunch of people clustered around the TV playing Smash Bros or Goldeneye to be more likely than a bunch of people clustered around a hub playing Quake on their own monitors. Because of this, I'm betting less people will feel the need to hit the network to play games when they can just call a few friends to come over and play.
Munching tacos and swilling soda while beating your friends to pulp is a lot more fun when they're right there next to you doing it too.
"I may not have morals, but I have standards."
I remember an anecdote about a du Pont employee demonstrating the safety of the chemical by inhaling a good breath of Freon and blowing it out to extinguish a candle, demonstrating that it was both non-toxic and not explosive. Try that with ammonia!
Even if it may have had an impact on the ozone layer, there's more than just the safety component of the refrigerant chemical to consider. Where would food safety and preservation be without refrigeration? Without refrigeration, say hello to E. Coli and friends. Get used to salt-curing, preservatives, and freeze drying (yum). And then say goodbye to fresh seafood, out-of-season produce, frozen pizza, and a lot of the food that we eat.
Here's an article about the history of Freon and another about the history of the refrigerator. (Oops, it wasn't just a du Pont employee who did the demo, it was the actual inventor... sounds like a lot of technology demos.)
I would find it highly amusing if someone managed to crack the XBOX & write PVR software for it as well :) since it has the HD on it already..
Son: Dad can I play Halo now?
...but it ran out of disc space last night already. I told you to clean up those pRoN thing...
Dad: boy don't touch my little Freon tonite
Son: (WTF...)
Dad: I've scheduled recording of Britney show
Son:
Don't forget the $10 charge for the TV listing and the charge for Xbox live. However under a combined box it would be stupid to have theses as seperate charges so expect a single around $20+ monthly charge which contains both. So now when you get sick of playing the game online you still have to pay for that to get your TV listings. And the even better thing is now you cannot sent the kids off to another room to play games while you want to watch your recorded shows. Overall they are just wrapping two failed products in a bright bow, and fooling some people.
I mean, one thing is selling a game console at loss -- you can license games, and another thing is to sell at loss a device that is perfectly capable of independent operation. And if they expect that they can tie PVR to a mandatory subscription, their worst enemy would be a... PC.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
Freon just isn't cool enough for me (*cough*)
How about:
CFC
Ozone destroyer
Aerosol
cancer box?
Defender of capitalism against the demon hordes of cancerous GPL software?
F-box
money-pit
DRM testbed
We Control Your TV Set
Tivo+
What were we making again?
I'm sure someone will be able to come up with more names.
If Mr. Edison had thought smarter he wouldn't sweat as much. --Nikola Tesla
only rednecks and idiots would have thought that up and posted it.
keanmarine.com
This is really quite amazing to me. Microsoft truly is the most braindead company.
Why in the world would anyone buy an xbox now? We now know it's going to be replaced with "something much much better" in a little while.
Now instead of making money selling xbox's and xbox games, everyone will just hold on to their cash and wait for Freon(tm).
In the meantime xbox-exclusive game makers will bleed red, and drop support for the xbox.. when Freon actually makes it out the door, it'll have no games because the game makers aren't going to invest the time and money on a product that already burned them once.
Freon will kill all of MS's hopes in the console market. And you can bookmark me on that.
Every time there is an article about microsoft trying to take over our living rooms, everyone freaks out and no one can seem to understand why they are so desperate to do such a thing.
Well, simply put, they have to. Microsoft is a huge company, used to churning out huge profits. That was all fine and dandy as long as they could continue to create (or copy, incoporate, etc) new operating systems and software packages that people would continually purchase on a somewhat regular basis (every software/hardware cycle). The problem that they seem to be facing over the past few years is that NO ONE wants to upgrade their systems anymore. Their software, a huge part of their profits, has reached a point where users are quite happy (i know, how sad to be happy with their products) with them. SO, no matter how many rebates or promotions they offer, there are still a lot of computers out their running windows 2000 and even 98 and NT4. Why? Cause the new features that office XP has are worthless to many people.
So, how does this all tie in? Microsoft needs to find a new way to generate continual profits. It can't push people into buying software upgrades as they could in years past. The only way they will be able to sustain this money influx is to expand to new markets (video games, TV, various website services) as well as try and charge monthly costs for their OS (i believe that they are still trying to do so).
So, stop being suprised about all of this. It's gonna happen. And if you don't like it, don't buy their products/services. They currently don't have dominance in these other markets, and they won't as long as people don't buy all of their crap.
my last sig was too controversial... now, a new and improved useless sig!
I design user interfaces for a free network management application,
The process that happens inside a refrigeration system is based on physics. It does not matter which gas. In fact, water, alchohol, and even good old CO2 all can be used as refrigerents and do just a good a job cooling food as Freon did. Well, I should note that water wouldn't be that good for freezing stuff, however for cooling you house it would work fine.
Why do these all work fine? Because they are based on physics. Physics which say temperature and pressure are directly related. Physics which say that as a substance changes state it must either gain heat or loose heat. That said, there are many substances which can be used safely in place of Freon.
That said, I should note that many new refrigerents can be quite flammable under certain conditions. Plus lets not forget what CFC based refrigents do to the ozone layer. A problem much worse for everyone then the ammonia.Reserved Word.
Does this mean that I will get three hours of recorded Blue screen of Death on my hard disk?
The true disaster is owning a vehicle that uses freon (Also known by its generic name of R-12) and having to retrofit it to use R-134a (the same gas used in those "dust blaster" canned "air"). Most automotive air conditioners designed to use R-12 have inadequate condenser cooling capacity for R-134a and perform poorly after a retrofit. Don't believe me? Do a search on Google, it's true.
It is quite possible that Microsoft's use of Freon is a nostalgic refrence to "The Good Old Days" when women were homemakers, McDonalds burgers were kept toasty warm by styrofoam, insect poison was actually toxic, school shootings didn't exist and your air conditioning actually got *cold*.
Or maybe it's an analogy... If you consider Tivo as R-134a and Microsoft as Freon, does that mean Microsoft's offering is more expensive, bad for the enviorment, but much more appealing from a performence standpoint?
---
Siggy, siggy, siggy, can't you see? Sometimes your puns just irritate me.
That the letters in "Microsoft Freon" can be rearranged to spell "Force fist moron". Telling, isn't it?
Freon, the chemical, represents a moneymaking scheme that Bill Gates can only have wet dreams about.
See, the patents that DuPont held to the Freon compound expired in 1992... the same year the UN adopted a treaty banning the use of CFC-based refrigerants with support from DuPont and a lot of enviro-hype. The approved refrigerant, HFC-134a, is less efficient, highly toxic, and protected by exclusive patents owned by DuPont.
It's a bit like if Microsoft somehow got a law passed declaring Windows 98 illegal, and requiring all users to upgrade to Windows XP, replete with customs agents stopping smugglers of legitimate, but now contraband, Windows 98 copies at the border.
Believe me guys, MS is just small-time evil. Quasi-evil. Not evil enough.
N4st0r, trixx0r h0bb1tz0rz! Th3y st0l3 0ur pr3c10uzz!
The process that happens inside a refrigeration system is based on physics. It does not matter which gas. In fact, water, alchohol, and even good old CO2 all can be used as refrigerents and do just a good a job cooling food as Freon did. Well, I should note that water wouldn't be that good for freezing stuff, however for cooling you house it would work fine.
Yet if you paid attention in your grade 9 science class you would have learned that not all chemicals work easily as well.
The process of refridgeration depends on a gas that expands quickly. When it expands it absorbs heat then you condense it elsewhere to let go of the heat.
freon apparently fit the bill since it had a nice efficiency behind it.
So the choices at the time were bad for environment freon or bad for the environment non-freon [recall wasting electricity is in fact bad for the environment].
Tom
Someday, I'll have a real sig.
which genius widened the page?
maybe someone at MS was impressed by the cool gassy names the SGI Octane, O2, and Fuel but the best they could come up with was Freon.
Freon seems much more passive than the sgi names. but it is for couch-potatoes after all..
Anyway, the article is quite a good overview of the current console scene. I can't help but wonder, however, if Microsoft's "go it alone" strategy is the best choice, or whether they'd be better off licensing gaming technology to other manufacturers as they are planning for WMV (see link). It would reduce financial risk to them, mirrors their current strategy for OS dominance in the personal computer industry, and Nintendo has started to do this with its GameCube (Panasonic DVD/Gamecube combo). Or would this wind up suffering the same fate as the Nuon chipset?
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
The Xbox offers benefits to many parts of MS, and the investment necessary to establish a beachhead is small compared what they could win.
It seems clear that there is a huge marketplace in the home entertainment / home management space. The traditional PC / laptop and Office type apps aren't going to take this area by storm so some new thinking is needed.
First off it isn't clear what will turn out to be the paradigm shifter. New ways to run e-mail? Video interaction with chat groups over broadband? New games? Management of CD music centre? TiVo style access to TV content? Automating household security and energy management?
Any or all of these could be the key, but maybe something not on this list at all. The big thing for MS is to leverage current strengths to absolutely dominate the space they target.
From this point of view they need to establish a new common platform for H/W, S/W and comms under MS control.
Xbox offers
* A foothold in the livingroom via a games console, with a cashflow attached
* Testing out of the control technologies that will be needed to enforce a monopoly:
* Xbox architecture for coupling the OS and hardware so that only controlled, approved apps can run
* The chance to test out DRM and distribution apps (at least in the next Xbox release)
* MS mediation of interactive services, e-mail home shopping etc that are currently set top box based
* A viable platform for whatever does turn out to be the killer app/service in the home
A lot of people would love to see these kind of services up and running, but lack the muscle to do it on their own. If MS can ship enough Xbox class machines they should be able to attract third parties to deliver whats necessary (within MS rules of course)
Whatever happens I'm sure that Xbox and derivatives will not be money down the drain for MS
I have a feeling that the name at least partly relates to the Nuon box. I don't know if any of you have seen the Nuon box, but Jeff Minter has done a substantial amount of work on it...
-- ICQ: 1645566 Yahoo: Ichimusai MSN: Ichimusai http://www.ichimusai.org/
"Hassium" - solid stable servers.
(Hassium has a 2.0ms half-life).
Freon sounds really cool. Ha, ha, get it? Freon? Cool? Okay, so it was pretty lame, but this is the first, last, and only time you'll hear me call something from Microsoft cool, so you better enjoy it!
There ain't no rules here; we're trying to accomplish something.
I don't have a games console, I've probably out-grown them - the last one I brought was a Sega Megadrive. But some of the TV/cinema ads I've seen recently have tempted me - a great one for Final Fantasy X on the PlayStation, and various ads for Nintendo games. I've also seen some great ads for PlayStation games at the cinema.
What I don't understand is - Microsoft say they are investing a few billion on the X-Box over the next few years - but where are the ads? Maybe it's different in the USA, but in the parts of Europe I frequent I've seen hardly any X-Box advertising recently. There was a burst of TV ads at the launch, but now virtually nothing.
I'll admit to not being as brilliant a businessman as Bill Gates, but I can't help thinking that spending a bit more on regular and compelling TV advertising might be a better idea than adding more functionality to the X-Box hardware.
What's happening with console advertising in other parts of the world?
recording shows onto a computer hard drive
Sure... but only if the production company says you can.
Given their plans for "Palladium" and the EULA for the WMP service pack, does anyone think this thing isn't gonna be chock full o' DRM?
Is this a plea for a "stable" market, similar to the stable windows market ?
What you're talking about is a monopoly based on proprietary formats.
The real solution is an open format for games. A cartridge/CD/DVD that can be played on all consoles.
Ceci n'est pas un sig
"The Xbox console isn't profitable for the Redmond, Wash., company and its costs are believed to be higher than Sony's, partly because of the hard drive and a version of its powerful Windows operating system included with each machine" ROFL!!! Powerful!??? As ever MSNBC continues to show its dedication to impartial, unbiased reporting.
Will it record TV while playing a game?
Probably not.
Pointless.
Besides the TV, let's look at all the extra "stuff" the average person can hook up to their "Honme Entertainment System": 5.1 Stereo & speakers, Cable/Sat box, DVD, VCR1/2, Tivo-like recording device, game console. You can buy each of those "add-ons" for under $200 at the most, so they're attainable to your "average" consumer.
/. reader won't go for these all-in-one boxes, because we are willing to deal with the learning/troubleshooting curve to get everything hooked up correctly in order to get the *exact* components that we want.
/. reader, or "home-entertainment buff", there are at least 100 people who just want to plug in a few wires and *have the darn thing work*. It's with that majority that the big bucks are.
Do you realize what a major pain in the ass it would be to hook up all those separate devices for your average person who can't even figure out how to program their VCR's clock? *THAT* will stop the masses from buying some (or all) of those components, not the cost. Read: loads of average people who WANT to spend their cash on these add-ons, but won't because the entry knowledge is simply too much for them to bother learning.
This is where the "do everything" boxes come in. All you have to do is plug in perhaps 4 wires, all color-coded, and *viola*! Instant home entertainment center with all the bells and whistles.
Now your average
For every
Right. No, your other right. No, the other other right.
Opera too. Damn CLIT.
"Is there no one on this planet who can challenge me?!" - General Zod, from the movie "Superman II"
So much for other companies trying to raise funding to develop products in this market.
Oft-observed MS behavior:
Linux is Linux, if One need clarify their dist: <Dist>/GNU Linux
bsds are of course just BSD
Ooooooh, I just can't wait until I can get Nimda on my Television!
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
Good point, and I agree. If there was an open format with interchangable games between platforms, I would define that as stable as well. I just don't see that happening. :(
Not to mention the fact that Freon is compatible with the compressors they operate in. It doesn't corrode like the others mentioned.
I heard a story on Freon in that if you check it out. The patent is expiring, or has expired. The company owning the patent (Dupont?) for fear of losing liscensing revenue has invented a new refrigerant and lobbied alongside the Greenie Weenies to outlaw Freon.
Follow the $'s dummy.
I dont think it is a plea. It was only a statement of historical facts. Given that Consoles are extremely propietary, way moer than Windows (ii.e. you need permission from the producer to publish somethine, you need to buy extremely expensive development environments) and may also be extremely separate and distinct in their hardware, a non-uniform market does severly hamper sales.
With Windows you DO have a monopoly right now, BUT (a) everyone can publish for windows, the tools etc. dont cost that much (seriously - get proving for a Playstation 2 for Developers and THEN tell me that VIsual Studio is expensive) and there is no competition and will not be competition on hardware for a long time. Linux vs. Windows on games would still mean the same hardware basis.
As games are normally not playable on later versions of the console etc. upgrades to the console mean a lot more for the user than computer upgrades. A stable product line, thus, is encouraging sales to consoles, while an announced sucessor can kill sales on the current line.
The retrospective look that basically the market got killed when it fragmented and had to recover through a monopole is correct. Being able to lend out games and to get games from friends is a great factor for consoles.
MS, though, has some advantages here - as their system is built on standard computer components, they may be able to maintain compatibility for software.
"...we all know what a disaster the actual chemical Freon was."
Big assumption there cuz I don't know about any disaster. I do know that Freon had some very important uses in refrigeration and electronics which saved lives and improved the quality of life for millions.
How about just reporting the news without the emotional enviromental bullshit panic phrases. Thanks.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Then Microsoft would have a seller! I've written on this before.
I don't know why Microsoft doesn't take advantage of its PC dependence and use that to keep them on the Windows platform. I mean, if you've got the capabilities in the unit, why not exploit them as much as you can? Especially in a set top unit that would be easier to maintain than a PC, but will do everything that 50% of what homes need?
Sure, there are issues with the screen display, but when it comes to balancing your checkbook, checking your on-line porforlio, writing simple letters, and a few other details that a good 50% of homes use, it's sufficient. Most of us /.'ers will still have a PC, but most home users aren't as savvy. A set-top box would be much better, since the PC is far too much more them. They just want gaming, TV recording, Internet browsing, checkbook balancing, investment tracking and writing letters -- nothing more. Heck, if it ran Quicken, I'd probably buy it (a 100% Linux user, both at work and home, for the last 4 years!).
I don't know why I'm the only one that seems to see this? I also don't know why Nokia or some other company in the TV Linux Alliance hasn't been able to team up with AT&T, the regional Bells, etc... to offer such a Linux-based "set-top box" for their cable (or, limitedly, DSL) subscribers yet. I've heard rumors, but nothing solid yet. If Microsoft wants to "take over," it should make a move on this. But, instead, it looks like they'll keep doing the "minimum required" combined with "dumping" and losing to other vendors again and again and again at a huge loss. And they probably won't wake up until someone else has a 50% marketshare with one of these devices either.
-- Bryan "TheBS" Smith
Independent Author, Consultant and Trainer
A bad workman blames his tools.
I've long suspected that MS marketing had been infiltrated by Linux and Mac fanatics. That it still sells just proves how damned little these fanatics understand about users and corporate purchasing decisions...
OTOH, maybe MS has a large secret slushfund to hire people to post utterly over-the-top pro-Linux messages and make the real Linuxers look like idiots. And to write Linux how-to's that take you through a dozen typed commands when most distros have a simple GUI program to do the same thing in 3 mouse clicks.
"Freon, not to be confused with moron, gives Bill Gates a hard-on and helps half-witted geeks get their groove on!"
The Xbox console isn't profitable for the Redmond, Wash., company and its costs are believed to be higher than Sony's, partly because of the hard drive and a version of its powerful Windows operating system included with each machine.
Oh yes -- it is very unprofitable to ship a powerful version of the Windows operating system. A big investment on Microsoft's part. That set them back quite a bit I'll reckon. (What??)
While "the Xbox is a full-feature BMW, the PS2 is a Toyota,"
Yeah, maybe. The Xbox is a 318ti, and the PS2 is a Toyota Supra.
Sorry, MSNBC, but that is ridiculous. And I realize the quote came from an executive at InfoGrames -- of course an executive at a company with an interest in porting its PC titles to the console market is interested in the Xbox.
"First you gotta do the truffle shuffle."
way morer !
Monopole !
I love it
LOL
we - M$ - claim all the right to install updates on your television. Also we can, shall and will block programs we don't like.
furthermore, if your dvd-player, vhs or gameconsole is not 100% M$ compatible we have the right to block the signal. Purely to protect the tv's hardware ofcourse. This has nothing to do with wanting to own your room your house (or the world for that matter) or something.
Privacy is terrorism.
I wonder if WebTV users will get a $200 rebate to upgrade to the new Freon system, with a 3 year subscription to MSN?
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Thanks for saving me making the same post about Freon(tm). Freon(tm) was also a great solvent. Now, let the bidding wars for the Freon(tm) brand name begin!
The process that happens inside a refrigeration system is based on physics. It does not matter which gas.
It definitely does matter. Freon isn't just a gas in a refrigerator; it liquefies when it is compressed and gives up heat to the outside air, then evaporates _quickly_ when the pressure is released in the cooling coils. This takes the right variation of the boiling point with pressure. To get just the right physical characteristics in Freon, they tried substituting various numbers of flourine and chlorine atoms for hydrogen atoms in hydrocarbons. And as a bonus, it turns out that Freon is non-poisonous, non-corrosive, and coexists quite well with compressor lubricants.
Nothing else works quite as well. Water and alcohol have too high boiling points (and might be bad for the pipes and bearings too). CO2 requires a quite high pressure to liquefy. Ammonia is as toxic as cyanide. R134a (similar to Freon but with only carbon, hydrogen, and flourine atoms) is not quite as good at lubricating or at refrigerating.
By the way, refrigeration was responsible for only a tiny percentage of the chloroflourocarbons released into the environment. Refrigerators that leak coolant are defective! Spray cans were another tiny percentage. Most of the release was industrial cleaning systems - Freon and similar substances being great solvents that dry quickly, and pose no danger to the workers as long as there's enough ventilation to keep oxygen in the room. Generally these systems would try to recycle the Freon, but it kept leaking out around both ends of the conveyor belt.
Someone mentioned earlier about running out of disc space. Will we be able to plug in a USB hard drive to add a few hours of record time?
It would be cool to offer a way to carry your movies(and games) to friend's house and play them.
FYI: Xbox uses a modified USB port for all external devices. Thus a USB device could be used as a travel device.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
Americans are all cunts
Game console, PVR, ... sounds like Digital Audio & Video Entertainment and Digital Interactive Networked Amusement to me... or in short DAVEDINA, a project doing all of this under Linux.. Check it out, it's cool, it's almost apt-gettable and it's free (beer/speech)!
"I must question their naming question however, we all know what a disaster the actual chemical Freon was. Here's to hoping, Cheers!""
If the submitter had cared to investigate the facts, not the "enviro-nut" rhetoric behind Freon, he'd know that the only "disaster" was that the PATENT on R12 Freon was about to expire. Hence, Freon was to enter the PUBLIC DOMAIN. The company with the R12 patent "happened" to have a newly patented "Freon substitute" that they marketed as "environmentally friendly".
=== The price of freedom is eternal vigilance
Everyone will soon be able to see those scrambled channels on TV without the need of an exotic pc configuration.
Thanx bill !
Monopoly is not necessarily a bad thing.
The idea is just to add a bigger hard disk and a TV tuner to add some Tivo functionalities to the X-Box.
I doubt it they will make a $500 console and expect people to make games only for that console. This is never going to work!!!
Black holes occur when God divides by zero.
(As long as it is created by a free market, that is, and not by artificial means such as legislation or mafia connections. Oh wait.. same thing ;)
club or what? I remember reading an interview with Gates a long time ago where he related in reasonable detail the early days of MS. His viewpoint then was that they were lucky to have survived as they were just thrashing about. The more time goes on, the more I think that this is even more true today. They *do* have a bazillion dollars in the bank nowadays but they seem to have adopted the "trial ballon" approach to everything and are still thrashing. I do give them a lot of credit though, once they latch onto something (like the internet) you can forget about it. It only took a couple of months and they where fighting it out with every other company on the planet to see who could get more "internet" into their products.
Is that freon and CFCs are too heavy to reach the ozone in any form unless your favourite airliner has a leaky air conditioner.
I can probably dredge up some support for the above, if you care to see it (its a little hard, though, as the whole CFC scare happened before the internet's prime time).
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
Clearly "standard components" are not needed for backwards compatibility if you do things right.
PS2 - Need I say more?
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
It's also interesting to note that, after it was essentially banned in the U.S., Freon was one of the most smuggled substances into the country.
Because, as you noted, the replacement refrigerants were so inadequate in existing refrigeration systems, there was still a great demand for Freon and there existed (I'm sure there still does, to some extent) a black market for Freon. Freon was the second most smuggled substance into the US from Mexico, because the margins on Freon were nearly as good as those for narcotics.
no need to worry about M$.
there's no place like ~
Needless to say, once you've paid the price of a retrofit, it's not much more to fix the condenser capacity issue.
Solution 1: Get a new condenser from a newer car. Best if done at the same time as the retrofit. They run $150-200.
Solution 2: The cheap one, and one I plan on implementing soon. (My A/C is borderline - It cools, but it sometimes takes a while, as opposed to my heat which comes up within a minute or two) Solution 2 is to install an auxiliary fan in front of the condenser that is hooked to the A/C clutch circuit. This will provide additional cooling capacity. Some cars need it more than others - I know of a guy with a Toyota minivan - It wouldn't cool down at all until it was moving 50+ until the owner installed a fan. My Dodge Spirit is borderline, but cools whether standing or moving - Because the main radiator fan is already set to turn on full-time whenever the A/C is turned on. (As opposed to only under certain speed/temp conditions)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
There have been times in the past when I have wondered if anyone at Microsoft (Gates perhaps) reads Slashdot. I can honestly say that this discussion is not of a high enough quality that anyone at Microsoft would gain anything from it. This might just be a trend at /. as of late, but the quality of discussion and level of critical thought sinks through the floor whenever a story about Microsoft is posted. Oddly, there are typically one or two Microsoft stories posted to /. every day. Why can't the /. community get the chip off its collective shoulder and remember the fascination that got us interested in computers/technology in the first place. What a bunch of cynical bozos.
Amazing magic tricks
I can't help thinking that MS are changing tack with this after the none-too-promising sales of XBox of late. I think they have realised that even though XBox has better hardware than both PS2 and GC, people don't think the XBox is sexy enough to lay over their dough. Sony and Nintendo make sexy, fashionable hardware that people love to own. Most peoples only interaction with Microsoft is when they are forced to fight with Windows whenever they use a PC. Microsoft just ain't sexy, that's the problem they are facing.
But who knows, maybe they will have better luck fighting against TiVO and ReplayTV (if they haven't been sued out of business yet). Maybe they can smuggle XBox in under the wire, in the world of set top boxes where functionality could be perceived as more important than 'fashion accessory'.
Let's just hope they don't make the next one a big plastic brick with badly designed joypads. It's a shame the XBox isn't doing too well (especially in Europe and Japan), it's a great bit of kit; it's just got a chronic image problem. I always thought it was a bad idea to plaster 'Microsoft' all over it.
'Those who will not reason, are bigots, those who cannot are fools, and those who dare not, are slaves.' - George Gordon
R-134a
This explains a lot. Now we know what runs in their veins.
--
As a matter of fact, I am a lawyer. But I play an actor on TV.
Does this make BillG the Undisputed King of the Ozone Destroyers?
Because most of the compliances will need to be upgraded. The XBox2 is already announced, and most likely an XBox3 soon after. The console portion of this Freon box will need to be continually updated. Likewise for the DVD capabilities. The XBox already has major issues with quite a few movies (Lists are out there, do a search.), and so far I have yet to see anyone use the XBox, or even PS2 for that matter as their primary DVD player (Kudos to Nintendo for skipping this hype.). Also, same thing with PVRs, they will need to be upgraded, larger drives, newer software, and this is a monthly fee. So what happens if just one of the 3 components breaks? (I've had a bad PS1 and a bad Tivo in my lifetime, friends have had DVD Players die on them also.) Thats 3 times the failure rate of a normal device you can just rebuy two years down the road. With the new Freon you'll be out most likely $500 instead of $100 or $200 if they were seperate.. Looking at Microsofts track record for defects with the XBox, I think even if the Freon DID look cool, specwise, with all the best software for PVR'n, no one would buy it simply because they didn't want a hunk of plastic that didn't work after 2 years. Many companies have tried making an all-in-one set top box, and they literally went under soon after. This is most likely the beginning of the end for Microsoft in the home entertainment dept.
Besides having ~5 games that would sell in the market of Japan:
1. They released machines that damaged several users game and dvd discs in Japan at launch
3. They took about a month or two to admit it was broken
4. They replace xboxes
5. They will never replace damaged media
I don't care if you're selling bread or negative io n hairdryers -- you must have consumer support on level with your service. Even the WonderSwan is kicking Xbox in the balls in sells. It's like Y2800 or something! ( ~Y122 : 1 USD )
Japan the same nation that won't put Snow Brand Milk/Foods out of bussiness for countless near yearly food posionings of school children won't even take that. (Humor) =)
Are they referring to the memory leaks, or the fact that it's already obsolete?
I'm not quite sure how MS plan's on evading the patent issue. Unfortunately for Microsoft, the PVR industry is laden with patents like a minefield. Both TiVo and ReplayTV hold a number of them on PVR technology. Unless these companies plan on surviving on license fees like a tick on Microsoft's neck, it seems to me like Microsoft is going to have quite a wait (about 15 years) before it can get into the PVR biz.
Introducing Microsoft Agent Orange!
This remote agent is downloaded into your computer overnight by Microsoft. It works behind the scenes in your computer to help keep it secure. (against you, the enemy) While you're using your computer, Agent Orange is hard at work maintaining the integrity and security of your system.
Microsoft Agent Orange can also notify you of special offers that you might be interested in. Such as how to increase the length of your... oh wait.
Those who would give up liberty in exchange for security and DRM should switch to Microsoft Palladium!
As long as I get to be the little car, sure, I agree with you.
Not that I want you all to think I'm a big pothead or something; I always hear potheads saying crap like this, but... I heard it was also DuPont who led the charge to get marijuana listed as a controlled substance, supposedly because their artificial carpet fibers were hopelessly inferior to hemp. Anyone know if this is fact?
I saw an article not long ago that Sony was able to cut the cost of PS2 much earlier than anyone including Microsoft expected. This lead to Microsoft cutting the price of the Xbox and losing even more money per unit that before while Sony was still making a per unit profit or at least breaking even while gaining more and more market share.
Now consider Microsoft, a place where non-authorized leaks rarely make it into the press
and even when they do die soon for lack of any comment. Also look at who is re-running the WSJ article, MSNBC.com.
Now If I were Microsoft I might float a story of how great our next product will be and that it is right around the corner. Hopefully all the kiddies and they're SUV driving parents will keep their cash in their pockets and not by any system waiting for MS revolutionary system.
Microsoft's best stratagey is to keep as many consumers out of the market until it has a console that it makes some money on or at least loses less and is more competitive with Sony's console.
-FRODE
I have no
Also, freon and its sister chemicals only accounted for a very small percentage of the free chlorine radicals in the upper atmosphere. In fact one volcanic eruption in south america in the early 90's spewed about 10 times as much chlorine into the upper atmosphere as all the industrial chemicals user in human history! Now because of its stable configuration freon has a disproportionate effect, but it is still estimated by some scientists that volcanic activity has had 2 orders of magnitude more impact on the ozone layer than human activity during the period since industrial revolution.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
It's also interesting to note that, after it was essentially banned in the U.S., Freon was one of the most smuggled substances into the country.
I don't know about that, but back in 1995 we paid $5,000 for one barrel of freon to run a solvent cleaner for electronic circuit boards until the FDA finally approved the water-wash process. What's funny is that this plant had never had a solvent cleaner in the 11 years it was running before we picked up that damned medical equipment contract...
Word.
Microsoft is one step closer! (click sig link)
Microsoft is slowly but surely losing the current console war. They're still behind their major competitor (Sony) and, while they may be ahead of or behind Nintendo, they don't have Nintendo's ability to make money no matter what place they're in (observe N64). And now they want to make sure to pour cement into Xbox's grave by bringing out a new console already? This is up there with Sega's 32X/Saturn fiasco.
Somebody needs to inform Microsoft that this is not the PC industry. They may or may not be able to psych out Sony a bit, but Yamauchi is too much of a miserable old curmudgeon to do anything but laugh at Microsoft for this one.
Oh, and let's not forget that the "set top box" concept has yet to pan out (or even be fully realized) for it to be a profitable idea for Sony or Microsoft (ie. people aren't turning away from the GameCube simply because it doesn't play DVDs).
About the only effect I've heard of that this concept has had in the industry is that launch titles got burned as people bought the PlayStation 2 but no games (people got it as a new DVD player). From that experience alone Microsoft may drive away possible game writers as they try to put more and more functionality in to Xbox2.
Once you have Freon, it costs a lot of money to dispose of it.
This is definitely a sign of why games seem to be losing their appeal lately.
:) )
Though Microsoft hoped the introduction of a hard disk and other features would inspire developers to write more exciting games than for the PlayStation 2
Why do games have to be exciting? Excitation is not the only valuable quality of a video game! A game needs to be unique and wonderful and truly inspiring! Nobody needs excitement 24/7, nor does every video game have to be about excitement. Continuing to produce games with this mentality will only result in the withering of the game industry into mind-numbing all-fire and bullets and explosions-all-the-time games that nobody wants to play. A constant flow of over-the-top games will only reduce gamers' desire for such, as even the World's Greatest Rollercoaster can get boring after a while.
The single greatest reason the Xbox and it's successors will fail.
geez.
(whew - thanks for the rant.
...playing videogames on non-MS consoles. I wish I could justify that as a "think week." He should have spent it contemplating the following sequence of events:
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Truth is, the open source/free software/pick your-label-movement is rooted in a Unix developers ethos. It champions worthy and useful high-minded notions that are relevant only to someone who shares that mind set. Consumers are people who buy things. Give them something they wqnt to buy.
-- Slashdot: When Public Access TV Says "No"
That anecdote was most likely bullshit. Inhaling Freon is a tremendously bad idea: Freon is heavier than air, and will displace all of the oxygen in your lungs. You'll suffocate pretty fast. Unless the du Pont guy basically hot-boxed the Freon, and was extremely careful, the incident was probably fabricated.
There was an Emergency 911 where some dumbass HVAC tech filled his air mattress with Freon. His kid caught a lungfull, nearly died.
And at any rate, it makes a stupid codename. The marketing drones fell asleep at the wheel.
At least it isn't called Prion, which would be the cause of mad cow disease, instead of Freon! Just think of the connotations..... The main software for it could be full of holes, just like a mad cow's brain.
rm -rf sig
What? And shed that elitist image by catering to a large segment of the sales population? You must be joking?! Make Linux popular with the masses!?!? And actually compete with MS?! You, my man, are insane.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
right... so anyway, since when do internal codenames have to be original, having anything to do with the product, or even clever? Give it a rest, people...
Do not read this sig.
There exists another, simple cheap and efficient alternative refrigerant: a blend of propane and isobutane. Yep, common hydrocarbons. They refrigerate well in the same pressure ranges as R12, blend well with lubricating oils, and biodegrade easily since they are simple hydrocarbons. The reason why they are not used is that they are flammable, but the laws prohibiting their use as refrigerants are not well-based on reason... they are based on emotion. Two or three pounds of butane/propane pressurized in a car's air conditioning system is not that great of a fire or explosion hazard. Compared to the gasoline on board a car, the relatively small amount of refrigerant would be negligeable. One gallon of gasoline weighs about 6 pounds and the typical car has a minimum of a 10 gallon tank. Even in a collision, the refrigerant would spray out into the atmosphere and dissipate in a few seconds, especially if the system was fitted with a quick release emergency dump valve. When a gasoline tank ruptures, you then have a big pool of gasoline that sits around, surrounding the wreckage. Gasoline is a much greater threat. We've all seen plenty of Hollywood movies... the huge orange fireballs that go in all the special effects explosions, those are done with gasoline. Propane/butane explosions are much more benign and take huge quantities in giant tanks to get anywhere near as spectacular as gasoline.
Hasn't someone already used the prouct name Freon before?
Martin Brooks / Slayer99 #linux / UIN 2178117
Shouldn't they fix windows first.
The only way I can see that content creator-approved "multimedia convergence" and content on demand in the living room will happen is through dumb terminals on broadband.
The MPAA and RIAA, and eventually ISDA, will only feel safe when their content/software resides nowhere in the world but on a few dozen hard drives in their offices. Only dumb terminals can let them to do that and still provide all the conveniences and flexibility comparable to the WWW. And since they'll demand maximum DRM, they'll thus demand minimum client-side caching, which means each client will need lots of bandwith and very low latency.
As long as Microsoft is talking about giving consumers hard drives, they won't have the content provider's cooperation.
Agreed. The socialist tree-hugger BS commentary that is tagged onto (most) Slashdot articles is getting old, fast.
Microsoft has always come down heavily in favor of aggressively protecting copyrighted material. They support the media giants in their efforts to make copy-proof one-time use media. They are talking about integrating code checking (intellectual property validation by another name) into future OS releases.
They've always taken this stance because first and foremost, they're a software company. But now they're moving into hardware. Companies like Dell and Apple, which have been up in arms about the media conglomerates' strong-arm tactics, have a vested interest in standing up for fair-use rights as computers become more tightly integrated with media creation and playback.
So far Microsoft has skirted the issue with ReplayTV, but if they try to take TV integration to the next level, they'll run smack-dab into the media giants.
Of course, based on their history, MS is likely to make deals with the media giants that restrict fair use by creating micropayment schemes or some other method of tracking and billing users for the wonderful things they're doing with the TV/game box.
This would alienate users in droves, especially when there are plenty of other competitors out there who aren't primarily software companies. Of course, MS could just wait for the hardware companies to do all the hard work of fighting the intellectual property battles with the media industry. Then they could step in after the dust clears, and reap the benefits without exposing themselves.
Whatever happens, Microsoft is literally getting so big and diversified that some of its products are bound to compete with each other in significant ways. I wonder, can Bill, as clever as he is, continue to advance Microsoft on all fronts without at some point having to scale back his ambitions?
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Freeze competition out of your living room, you had to ask?
BTW, when MS blows it again, you can't dump your electronic trash in China, so might as well pack it up and send it to Redmond, let the Beast's home state deal with it.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
It's called Ultimate TV, and it's only offered for one of the direct-broadcast satellite services. They haven't tried to market it more broadly. Unclear why.
Despite the alleged ozone depleting effects of Freon, this chemical revolutionized much of the world. To call it anything less than revolutionary is not being wholly factual.
From Churchill's newly airconditioned bunker during WWII, to the entire southeastern US, virtually unihabitable before airconditioning, many parts of the world previously inhospitable to human life were made welcoming.
Think of the whole new culture of beach bums, and the gigantic migration to warmer climates... None of this would have been possible without freon. Had any of us lived 60 years ago, the mere thought of going to Florida would seem like torture.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
That Batman movie where the Joker has this console in everyones home and it grabs everybodys bank numbers right out of their heads...
come to think about it, that Microsoft's m/o isn't it?
*Shudder*
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
MS is just following the console tradition of talking about three consoles for every one they actually bring to market.
When Nintendo made the NES, they talked about making it a "Trojan Horse" that would bring content on demand and online shopping, including stock trading, to the living room. They also talked about several SNES CD-ROM drives and a N64 disk drive. And they talked about Game Boy Advance six years before they brought it to market.
Sony talked about PlayStation 2, 3 and 4 back in 1995.
Atari talked about their 16-bit console "Panther" in 1991, and Matsushita talked about the 3DO "M2" in 1996. They marketed neither.
Sega did actually bring out every console they promised, but only the Genesis / Mega Drive was profitable. They tried to support 11 others that lost money, including unheard-of combinations like Genesis + Sega CD + 32X.
-1, Troll?
w -0 6-iw-doj.html
Ha, I see some Microsoft people have moderating privileges. Either that, or somebody has forgotten his Microsoft history.
It wasn't a troll. It was an honest comment based on the evidence that came out during the Java trial, in which a Microsoft marketing presentation said:
> the "strategic objective" was to "kill cross-platform Java by grow[ing] the polluted Java market."
http://www.javaworld.com/javaworld/jw-06-1998/j
Maybe it is about time Microsoft engineers read the Software Engineering Code of Ethics. Specifically, their duty to the public at large.
Microsoft will evolve X-Box to the point where it becomes...
A Personal Computer.
Monopoly is not necessarily a bad thing.
As long as we don't play with "fines to the middle, free parking gets the cash" rules. That was too cool when I was 8, but it sucks now that I'm 32. But $400 for landing on Go is okay.
And if AC gets the car, then I want the dog.
(Oops, i just got trolled and posted a bad, stupid, redundant joke. Oh well, this is my second day being a registered Slashdot user.)
"The Xbox console isn't profitable for the Redmond, Wash., company and its costs are believed to be higher than Sony's, partly because of the hard drive and a version of its powerful Windows operating system included with each machine."
Since when is Windows a powerful operating system? More companies should use linux in their devices if they want power.
Console lifecycles are something like 3 years
Closer to five.
Not so keen on the Gamecube myself, it's a bit too kiddy for my tastes
Resident Evil Special Edition kiddy? Hardly.
Will I retire or break 10K?
"freon" is the old english word for "friend", and is also the root of the modern english "freedom".
Where they show the Xbox buyer/user(Skateboarder not paying attention to landing the 50/50 Grind.) taking it up the a$$. Is this a case of foreshadowing?
It might be cool but its got security flaws as big as the ozone hole.
-- The universe began. Life started on a billion worlds...
-- Except on one where stupidity was there first.
Could this have anything to do with a recent tour to MS and getting tagged when I said I was with slashdot. For some unknown reason when I access linux software now, I get a zapped. Considence or myth.
Combine this story with Palladium.
Picture an "enhanced" X-box (or that "Tablet Computer" Bill keeps harping about). Add a hardware/software remote-management "feature" with Redmond at the controls. Toss in one of those little "spycams" from the ubiquitous pop-up ads with an ultra-wide-angle lens, and a wall bracket. Oh, and leave out any means of turning the thing off.
There you have it--the Telescreen. Looks like Orwell's prediction was dead-nuts on, except for the time being off by just about 20 years.
> my PS2 is practically the same size
No Dougal, the PS2 is small, the x-box is far away.
Can I get the icon in powder blue?
Offtopic for this story, but ontopic for this thread:
Strange though it seems, surely this can be the only explanation for an OS called 'winCE'...
I thought that one was bad, but not nearly as bad as the Audi sport sedan, the TT. Just look at it drive by, AudiTT on the bumper as it zooms past.
But think about it for a moment: why would you market an expensive car, aimed at high-class clientelle such as lawyers and accountants, and call it the auditt? It's not the Audi T T, it's the Audit!
DUH!
SlashSigTheorem: Humorous, Political, Critical, Constructive- If you have a
> In fact, water, alchohol, and even good old CO2
Actually, my dad, in his toolmaking days, told me tales about how they'd build a refrigerator that ran off compressed air. No need to get fancy with water, alcohol, or even good old CO2.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Well, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Wasn't DuPont the company that supposedly invented a process to produce paper more cheaply from hemp than from trees, such that Hearst (who had just invested megabucks in forests to supply trees for his papers) created anti-marijuana rantings (can't call it familiar and friendly hemp anymore) in cahoots with a power hungry congresscritter who needed an issue to trumpet?
Or maybe it was Dow.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
But that's not a sexy story that leads to power for certain politicians. Facts denied!
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
Hmm... Freon huh? Is that a DoubleSpeak reference to "the family".
< rant >
/rant >
If there is one piece of equipment that will never take up space in my house, it is a game console. I have 3 children that I spend enough time struggling with to get them to do their home work or find something a bit more creative to do than veg in front of a television.
I have 5 computers running at home... 1 for myself, 1 for my wife, 1 for my children, 1 that acts as a file/game server and one that runs Linux as a firewall. There are plenty of games available for the PC to provide the occassional gaming entertainment experience... the hell if I am going to spend another $400 plus the cost of games just to have a PC than can do nothing BUT play games. The whole concept seems stupid to me...
Buy a PC and a decent graphics accelerator. That way you can play games and when you aren't, the money you spent can actually be used for something productive.
While some may argue that Freon (probably more like expensive-on) adds additional functionality to the game console, it is not functionality that I want from a single piece of equipment... if I am playing a game and there is something on TV that I want to watch, I personally like the ability to record it at the same time without it causing a reduction in framerate or a sudden system crash.
I wish these idiots would simply focus on making a more stable and secure OS... some of of just simply like our Sony (or Panasonic, etc) entertainment equipment and could give 2 shits about M$'s visions... they belong in my office, not my livingroom!
<
Microsoft was expected to have shipped only 3.5 million to four million Xboxes by Sunday
I am impressed, several million X boxes shipped in a few days.
That is one amazing package and shipping department.
Oh wait... You mean from launch date till now?
My mistake.
Move along, there is nothing to see here.
Carbon based humanoid in training.
The process that happens inside a refrigeration system is based on physics. It does not matter which gas. In fact, water, alchohol, and even good old CO2 all can be used as refrigerents and do just a good a job cooling food as Freon did.
Yes, it is based on physics, and had you stayed awake in said class, you might have clued in to the fact that different substances have different properties, and are NOT all equal. If they were, we'd be using inert gasses. *Simplified*: R-12 is compressed into its liquid state so that it will boil when passed through the evaporator, dropping in temperature to it's boiling point of (negative whatever degrees). It is then compressed back into liquid form (smaller tube), and it does it again.
Water (or any other fluid that I'm aware of) does not compress. That is the principal/law that hydraulic systems are based on. Fluids don't compress, gasses do. Ever seen a fuelie go up in an explosion and wonder what happened? Too much fuel in the cylinder (vs air), the compression was too much for the heads, and boom!
That said, I should note that many new refrigerents can be quite flammable under certain conditions. Plus lets not forget what CFC based refrigents do to the ozone layer. A problem much worse for everyone then the ammonia.
I'm still trying to figure out why this is so widely accepted. If anyone has a good answer, I'd be interested (seriously). How does a gas as heavy as chlorine rise above lighter gasses to the ozone layer? Chlorine is, after all, the catalyst in R-12 which is supposedly destroying the ozone layer, while at the same time we're complaining of high ozone content in the lower atmosphere due to vehicle emissions. Is the heavy gas Chlorine gas really making a miraculous trip into the upper atmosphere to destroy O3 while leaving the Ozone down here intact for us to breath? Or did DuPont buy another government backed scare to make more dough?
Kind of fitting the M$ would use a name already fraught with treachery and lies.
While "the Xbox is a full-feature BMW, the PS2 is a Toyota," says Bruno Bonnell, chairman and chief executive of French game maker Infogrames Entertainment SA.
Bruno's point can be taken either way. Okay, so he's French and there's probably some Euro-snobbery going on here. But consider that a fast, cheap, and arguably more reliable Toyota MR2 Spyder or Celica GT can give any "full-feature" BMW (read: bloated/luxurious) a good run in the real world. This is gaming. We're talking entertainment here. Bang for the buck. Not prestige or old reputation!
Bruce Simpson of Aardvark thinks that Freon© is an attempt to put MS in the position of being the worldwide arbiter of digital media rights.
Read about his thoughts
It seems to me that as they enter the TV market, they're dealing with a different kind of animal than they're used to. Of course, they've been working hand in glove with NBC for some time now, so they've doubtless learned a lot from the experience.
That's the thing about Microsoft. You can never count them out, because they can afford to hemmorage money and make colossal mistakes, because their pockets are so deep.
It will be interesting (in the "may you live in interesting times" sort of way), regardless of how it turns out.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
Step 1: Find a big niche, saturate the market at dumping prices, lose lots of money but make sure competitors lose more money than they can afford to lose.
Step 2: ??????
Step 3: Profit
Well, we all know it works, and what the ???????? stands for.
unfinished: (adj.)
Just like the chemical Freon, its a bad thing, but they'll wait till 3/4 of america has the product in use before they explain how evil it is. By then, you won't have a choice about using it, unless you want an expensive upgrade.
Me fail English? That's unpossible!
This Website sucks!!!.
Note: Fscking Slashdot doesn't support <pre>, <sub>, or <sup> anymore, so the following may get ugly. Disclaimer: My family business is in the HVAC industry, albeit not at the design and manufacture end of things.
My understanding is that O3 has a half-life of something on the order of 15 minutes under normal tropospheric conditions, and is unstable enough even in the stratosphere that the ozone layer wouldn't exist if the Sun's UV light weren't constantly breaking it down and reforming it. That means that it's not very surprising that it doesn't migrate very far from where it forms. However, the atmosphere is highly turbulent, so the mere fact that a gas is heavy doesn't mean it won't find its way to the stratosphere (given enough time).
What makes commercial CFCs different from volcanic emissions is that CFCs are extremely stable -- just about the only things that break them down are fire and hard UV -- whereas most natural chlorine-containing gases are highly reactive. That reactivity serves to bind the chlorine from staying suspended in the atmosphere for long periods of time before being bound in less-reactive solid or liquid compounds that can no longer circulate. Those same properties that make Freon so attractive as a refrigerant compared to other hydrocarbons also make it a royal b*tch on the environment, because it bypasses that binding process.
Here's the (proposed) chemistry behind it, if you're interested. The reason chlorine is such a bitch is that chlorine readily forms the following progression of molecules, all of them radicals that are one valence electron short of a happy meal (so to speak):
Cl (would-be chloride)
ClO (would-be hypochlorite)
ClO2 (would-be chlorite)
ClO3 (would-be chlorate)
ClO4 (would-be perchlorate)
This means that, once the chlorine is released from the CFC molecule, it can react with ozone at a faster rate than the amount of ozone produced by UV bombardment. Discarding output energy that would be re-radiated as lower wavelength EM, here is a list of some of the partial reactions of the process, at least so far as I understand it (IANAC, but I'd love for one to step forward and correct me if I'm wrong):
(Normal O3 cycle:)
O2 + UV
2*O (cycle entry)
O2 + O
O3
O3 + UV
O2 + O
2*O
O2 (cycle exit)
(R-12 "eating" ozone:)
CCl2F2 + 2*UV
CClF2 + Cl + UV
CF2 + 2*Cl (cycle entry)
Cl + O3
ClO + O2
ClO + O3
ClO2 + O2
ClO2 + O3
ClO3 + O2
ClO3 + O3
ClO4 + O2
ClO4 + UV
Cl + 2*O2
2*Cl
Cl2 (cycle exit)
Note that, in the natural cycle, 4 O3 molecules will absorb up to 4 UV photons per iteration (slightly less in practice due to ozone's natural tendency to break down without help), whereas the chlorine radicals complete an entire iteration using only 1 UV photon. Even given that an O2 molecule can form two O3 molecules using the energy of a single UV photon, the chlorine still makes the O3 breakdown process ruthlessly more efficient.
I used to be skeptical of the CFCs => ozone depletion arguments, but over the last decade I have to say that the evidence is mounting in favor of the theory. Unless someone else can come up with an alternate mechanism, one as supported by the evidence as the CFC theory, I for one will presume that the CFC theory is, if not perfectly correct, then the best fit for the evidence that we have.
Range Voting: preference intensity matters
That's quite possibly a red herring, since the chlorine injected into the stratosphere by vulcanism is essentially accounted for on Earth's "books", whereas the chlorine added by CFCs is a new "expense" to the ozone system. We could still be putting the ozone layer "out of business" by the nickel and dime.
Range Voting: preference intensity matters
Where in the hell do you think the chlorine from cfc's comes from? The earth, it all the same stuff, other than a hadfull of atoms made in cyclotrons and the few million obliterated in nuclear explosions we have not created/destroyed any elements. As I said because of the semi-stable configuration of cfc's they have a larger effect than their numbers would otherwise suggest but they are still dwarfed by naturally occouring phenomena. Oh yes and since the spotlight has moved off the ozone whole over antarctica the whole has healed over 85%.
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I "heard" from a Cable company that sounds like Romrast that microsoft will be developing this technology for the digital boxes as a future feature. Already Microsoft is working on ways they can use it to their own benefit and they haven't even built it for the people paying them for it. When it is released it will be called Free on Demand. It will allow you to view TV as normal but you can view shows and events that has happened already. Like watch the 10 0'clock news at 12. I "heard" that this person is going to try and talk them into another developer for their programming like RedHat. But, has anyone here try'd to convice a multi-billion dollar corperation that their wrong lately. It most likely won't happen.
I'm sorry I'm weak. I want to keep my job and can't give you my name so stop asking.
It's been a while since I took my physics classes, but wasn't one of the generic properties of gases that they diffuse kind of nicely? Not that atomic weight doesn't matter, but it's not quite as drastic as with non-mixing liquids (that form nice layers almost instantenously).
However... don't CFCs generally also contain fluorides (hence the acronym; freon being marketing name for a CFC)? Fluor is the only gas even more active than chlorium, and wasn't that actually the bigger culprit regarding ozone? Or am I just talking out of my ass here? :-)
What...like Tivo?
I try not to be a picketing, rallying, tree hugging type. I'm aiming more for the patriotic capitalist pig side of things ;)
You need a FREE iPod Nano
No. Fucking. Duh. However, the vast majority of chlorine used in industry comes from a natural source that is (a) always found as a solid or in aqueous solution, and (b) very inert. This source is NaCl. The commercial process used to create nearly all industrial chlorine is to take NaCl(aq), a.k.a. brine, and electrolyse it into HCl and NaOH, thus releasing it from its inert state and allowing chlorine-containing compounds with higher enthalpy to be produced. Persistent gaseous suspensions of NaCl are unheard of outside the very bottom of the troposphere, since it gets rained out rapidly, and there isn't exactly an abundance of ocean water pouring directly into the stratosphere. Use some freakin' common sense, man.
Your facts are 10 years out of date. You have been mislead. To quote Section 3 of the faqs.org link:
Range Voting: preference intensity matters
I think that some of the marketing/PR people of MS have been sick / on holidays / away these times
:)
This is not a first for MS Marketing.
The # symbol is read/verbalised as Hash in UK English; So C# is:
a C Hash - A messed-up or muddled C.
or
C-hash - Cash.
Your choice
I had to read what I posted several times and still I don't see where I claimed that Freon wasn't harmful to the enviroment. Actually I'm sure it was in some way.
What I said was that it was not a disaster. Floods, volcano eruptions, earthquakes, airplanes crashing into buildings.....these things are disasters.
If you're really wondering how it saved lives, take the time to do a little research into how Freon was used. Go visit an HVAC technician. Drop an email to Dupont. Talk to a doctor. But at least take the time to find out and don't let the enviromental extremests rule your thinking with their emotional plays.
True, maybe Freon wasn't the best thing in the long run. Same with R12, it was just as bad. But until we knew better it was used for good, not evil.
I a just so sick and fucking tired of comments like that being thrown into what should be reported as news. Yes, Microsoft sucks because of their strong arm tactics and lack of quality in their products. But that bit about Freon being a "disaster" had no place in the story, it was simply an enviromental wacko dig and had no place in the story.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
I'm still not convinced that Chlorine makes it up to the stratoshpere from turbulence, but I can tell you for certain that chlorine is the culprit. (For one thing, it's a question on the test to get your license to buy R-12 -- and what a joke that test is...answers in the front half, questions in the back half, match em up, mail it in with $$).
Ok, let me start over. It was indeed proven that the claims about CFC's were made by those who testified they lied and faked results and methods in order to recieve funding, the fact is that it does indeed break up ozone. However, the simplest fact of all is that unless there is a powerfull delivery vector, then CFC's will never reach the altitude to cause its damage in any remotely significant amount. So, if we were to follow the, ahem... logic (hahahahaha) of this reacting, errr manipulation... err I meant thinking. If we were to follow this thinking then perhaps we should not ever eat because of the noxious fumes our flatus and feces emit. I guess we should all shut down all our computers because of the lethal energy they produce (who cares that it is disipated several microns from its birth?)
Like the wanna be linux fans (often called fanboys, zealots, morons, etc) this kind of nonsense only serves to cloud the truth, manipulate the weak and push support away. Congratulations! You get this nice shiny pin with engraved golden lightening SS's, superimposed over a hammer and sickle, and made all purty with a midground swaztica. Let us call it the 'volunteer ministry of bullshit, propoganda, intellectual enslavement and mental terrorism'
Hey! lets invent a new agenda aimed at something else completely fabricated and then get sheep to support it by putting hate-rhetoric that will attract the 'socially aware' monkeys! You people are the worst enemy of everything you verbally claim you are for. Idiots.
this sucks quite a bit if the scenario you mention comes to pass (well it does, but it take a while), however I think we will all manage. It is not in the best economical interst (long term) for MS to ditch in anyway the support for the current platform for at least another 1.5 years, then it would enter a 4 year phase out (or so). That way they maximize their profits.
Good ideas in there though - but absolutly nothing that can't already be cobbled together today by amatuers with a hobby on mac, MS and *nix platforms. Getting it to be cheap will be the challenge.
In fact one volcanic eruption in south america in the early 90's spewed about 10 times as much chlorine into the upper atmosphere as all the industrial chemicals user in human history!
I believe you are referring to Mount Pinatubo, in the Philippines. See this link for a discussion of volcanic chlorine emissions, in particular, why CFC's may have a stronger effect on stratospheric ozone. I'd like to see a source for your figure of 2 orders of magnitude.
Certain economists had a running joke about classifying the Philippines as a Latin American country during the Asian economic boom of the 80's and early 90's, and as an Asian country during the Latin American boom (and the corresponding Asian crisis) a few years ago. Given the recent financial situation in Argentina, your geographic mistake is understandable.
"Your notation sucks!" -- Serge Lang (1927-2005)
I love it when the response to racism against blacks is to answer by racism and generality in response. Yesiiirrreee, only a redneck would come up with that. Just think! when you write/say shit like that you make someone look favoringly at the nigger post. So perhaps that is your goal, stomp on people with the 'racist' stick and then laugh as it increases the problem.
I hate to come along this late, but I found this comment in meta-mod and... According to this page on Freons, they were patented in 1928. This would have put them ex-patent in 1945.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist
If you think that the ozone-depletion problem is part of a conspiracy to jack up DuPont revenues, you need to check your tinfoil hat, it's leaking.
Scientists restrict study to entire physical universe; creationist