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How Close is the Open Entertainment Center?
why-not-now asks: "Recently there's been a lot of talk about open source/free software that enables your PC to act as a DVR, all-purpose media player, DVD player, CD player, MP3 player, etc... not to mention the ability to play all sorts of video games (if you know where to look). The idea of the set top MAME console is nice, but with a little TV/Audio out, a little know how and the right software, are we currently able to put together a free version of the big convergence media center others are trying to do?"
It won't be getting closer anytime soon.
It's Christmas everyday with BitTorrent.
I like to keep mine at least 15-25 feet away. Any closer, and it makes it difficult to see, and it might even give you a headache!
see MythTV: http://www.mythtv.org/
Damn tower keeps falling off when I crank up the bass!
Ever heard of it? Theres lots of projects doing these kinda things, altough they could learn somewhat from the XBox hackers who have made cool interfaces for just these kinda things as well..
-- signed for your pleasure --
Qcast plug. hell, if enough people buy it maybe they'll increase their support.
It will never get there. Computers are for one thing, TVs for another. The twos can mix, sure, but they're better off both staying separate. Who needs a set-top box that crashes or a computer that slows down because it's recording today's episode of Friends?
:-D
Plus if you think they'll let you do this properly without screwing you up with DRM technologies, you're a dreamer (not that that's a bad thing, but in this case it's really unrealistic). I wouldn't be surprised if the TV networks got their way and ended up having DRM chips on TV receiver cards... Of course, they'd be cracked within the week
Daniel
Carpe Diem
"...all sorts of video games (if you know where to look).
That sounds cool. Where might I find information?
are we currently able to put together a free version of the big convergence media center others are trying to do?"
Sure we are. Here are the main differences between it and the other product:
Ours will have an incomprehensible command line interface and/or multiple GUIs that responds 10-15 seconds after the user asks it to do something. Neither GUI will be standard - in fact, it will ship with both, and proponents of the two camps will froth at the mouth when discussing how their widgets are prettier than the others.
It will not support any receivers / amps made less than 5 years ago unless the user knows assembly.
When a user asks for support, he will be told "RTFM n00b, j00 M$ shill. Astroturf somewheres else, whilst I read THE SOURCE for my knowledge. This is the Tao of programming, numbnuts, and you thought it was funny to beat me up in high school and take my lunch money. haahahah, I am the BOFH"
not free when you have to buy the hardware
You do realize that the first 3 links arent 'open'.
Just because you can emulate arcade roms, snes roms and psx discs, doesn't mean it's legal to do so, or that they're somehow 'open'. Spyro the dragon and Mortal Kombat are not Open Source.
And to answer your question, you can do all that now. All you need is a machine with enough power and TV outs, or a VGA scan converter, and a lot of free time to set it all up and make it work adequately.
Or are you asking 'how long until someone sets up an easy to use linux interface for all of these softwares?' You can answer that by looking at how long it took to set up an easy to use linux interface at all.
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
If you don't mind that it will be a collection of parts that don't particularly work well together, won't have a slick interface, and won't fit in with the rest of your AV gear, style-wise. Nothing amuses me more than reading about people spending a gob of money (and time) to turn their PC into a half-assed Tivo, when they could've just bought a fucking Tivo for less money, get something that is slick, and been happier in every way. Of course, I also think that Tivo is fucking stupid. Mostly because I see no point in recording, or watching at all, the shit that is on TV.
Maybe Im not part of the target demographic, but I have a nice widescreen, I have a Tivo, I have a CD player capable of mp3 playback, I have a 2/3 pulldown DVD player which gives me better quality than any PC ever will, and I have a Denon sound system.
About the only thing I can think I might be missing is the opportunity to play hacked/burned/whatever games, but in my experience, they usually look pretty damn lousy on a huge TV anyway.
Like I said.. maybe some people will be into this.. but IMHO I cannot stand to watch things on a computer NOW because they look so crappy, let alone piping that into my TV.
But maybe I'm not the audience they are looking for.
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
www.mythtv.org
check it out. the screenshots are amazing. I personally haven't had time to play with it but it's newsgroups are extremely active with lotsa happy users.
And emulation capability out the wazoo too.
Now if what you're asking for is a PC that acts like a Mac; just wait 5-10 years and they ought to be up to the standards of today's PowerBook. ;-P
You can buy a Tivo
Buy a VCR
Buy a DVD player
Buy a Gaming Console or two
and then filter all of these through your receiver and/or high-er end video card, but notice that not once is the word 'free'mentioned.
And that is why Microsoft is aiming its marketing muscle in this general direction. I'minterested to see how well it does. I get to play with a Media Center box from HP here in the near future.
I'm interested to see how well the new toy from Bill works.
- Gentlemen, start your hybrids!
It hasn't been a software issue for months, but rather a hardware issue. It's quite easy to build a GUI via software, but quite another to build a nice, clean hardware interface. For example, I can go out, buy a component-sized/look atx case for $100-200, buy a motherboard, cpu, memory, nic, etc, then spend countless hours setting up the OSS tools used to make a PVR- but then I have spent ~$500 and I could have bought a Tivo for $150.
There's still items like the Audiotron and Compaq Music Centers for audio, and of course you can use a pc for these, but the fact remains that the effort required to build such a device is outmatched by the lower cost of one or more components. Why would I spend even as little as $200 plus 5-10 hours work when I can spend $250 with no-hours work?
Many of the solutions out there are still not very hardy and quite fragile. To reduce time in building these, there really should be a PVR/HTPC Distro.
To me, the idea of an open entertainment system that you describe doesn't seem to mesh.
Why does it matter that you're running on a free platform when you're playing non-free movies using illegal technology, pirated video game ROMs and MP3s?
In order for this to be real, we'd also need a collection of free movies and video games to add to the admittedly significant cache of free music. (There are also plenty of free video games, but since you are talking about MAME I don't think this is what you had in mind.) Otherwise, why does it matter if your media center uses pirated software, too?
Don't get me wrong -- I love the idea of disconnecting ourselves from the corporation-controlled content and software, but I don't think it helps us much if we develop a lot of free software in order to continue to consume the proprietary stuff.
On the other hand, I'm not saying that using pirated everything is all bad -- maybe a generation kids who grew up sharing things on Napster and clones will result in a less conservative congress, where things like the Copyright Term Extension Act won't be so common. (Which is what has me feeling so cynical right now...)
... to spending dozens of hours and thousands of dollars combining Open Source DVD players, CD players, and MP3 players are the following:
1) Print a few more copies of your resume out and send them to companies. You've been out of work long enough and any minute the bill collectors are going to throw you and your family in jail.
2) Plant a tree. Picket outside fur factories and SUV dealerships. Teach a neighborhood child how to play the piano. Read to your kid. Make love to your wife.
3) Abandon all the worrying about conforming your life to the absurd paradigns and social revolutions inspired by lunatics like Richard M. Stallman, who was pink-slipped by the MIT Media Lab after years of little to no productive work.
Reply or e-mail; don't vaguely moderate. Ex-O'Reilly/MIT employee, now a full-time Google employee.
You can have the all open source entertainment center if you're willing to always be at least 2 or 3 years behind what is current. Users who want to view the latest video disk format will have to go to best buy to get the needed player to do so. It takes the hacker community a little while to duplicate a comercial product.
The entertainment industry will almost by deffinition be ahead of the open source entertainment subculture.
Honestly, would you rather play some mame roms rather than the Clone Wars on a brand new GameCube? The open source hardware is just not there and the software will always be lagging.
this isn't a troll. I honestly think that the commercial stuff will eternaly have the advantage of easy configuration, compatibility with current media and ease of use.
Blaze a trail to the New World
Yes, it is happening. www.mythtv.org
Sure the software for an OSS based media center is available and being put together by some groups. (e.g. MythTV, etal)... The real problem is putting together a good looking peice of hardware that will do the job.
For example: Where are the slim-line style cases similar in style to current VCRs and DVD players ? Where are the low-profile good quality video capture cards? or the motherboards with good video capture capability built in ?
And what about price. For the digital media center to really take off... it needs to be priced within the range of current DVD-players etc.
The ideal box would have a sleek case design, be very quiet, yet be powerfull enough to handle playing demanding media formats. Not to mention be able to burn captured shows off to cd... or for the very rich DVDs...
Softwares there... now we just need a company to put a hardware package together and get the price down below $1000 bucks..
The world's most inexpensive solution to all the world's problems. (Effectiveness not guaranteed.)
The other night, I had rented the movie "We Were Soldiers" but the kids were sleeping so I figured why not just drop the DVD into my brand new Gateway, put the headphones on and watch it on my computer. No thoughts of copying anything or breaking any laws, but I could only watch the first 8 minutes due to the copy protection scheme.
A VCR I purchased a few years back when dead on me a month or so ago. When I opened it up to see what the problem was, I was confronted with cheap plastic gears -- apparently made to wear out over time. And so it goes.
So until there is more money in creating all-in-one computers that are home entertainment systems that are washing machines and toasters, we're going to continually get knickle-n-dimed to death -- or at least until I break down and buy a HD TV flat panel display.
healyourchurchwebsite.com - WWJB?
My computer is the only source of media I use anymore. I use it to listen to music, play dvds, watch tv, radio, games, etc. Luckily, my computer is a P4 so it can handle all the extra data. However, my other computer can do almost all of it and it is only a P2 400mhz.
My question is, according to the article we want an open source program that does it all. I have several programs that do this but are from microsoft (WMP etc) and not a one can do all that I want. This leads to a fundamental question about computer design: we don't want to know how to do it we just want it done. Like a telephone, we want the computer to do what it is supposed to do without any question. To use a telephone, you pick it up and dial, but we have become so used to it that we don't even realize that this piece of technology hasn't been around for centurys.
The goal of creating an open source all in one PVR program is to make computers less like a computer and more like a tool that everyone knows how to use. I love open source, but I don't mind not knowing how it works if it works. We pay for phones, so why shouldn't we pay for software that provides an entertainment package for us.
It's also being equiped with communication features such as e-mail checking, a phone answering machine, and even a who's-rang-the-door feature.
Check it all out at their website, davedina.apestaart.org, and join their mailinglist!
You can also come hang out at #davedina on Freenode
I read /. daily and every few weeks theres something about a Linux PVR or someone whos build an entertainment center inside an old VHS case. My local electronics store is even selling Linux boxes equiped with TV tuner cards. Windows media PC or whatever it is wont catch on, to many restrictions on what you can do with digital content, and anyone who has read the media player eula would probably much rather use Linux
I have been thinking the same thing and even been looking into the hardware for it.
The ATI all-n-wonder card has all the features for a nice set-top system.
Features like:
Digital video recorder
TV guide type information for programming the DVR.
Live pause
Multiple video outputs, s-video, DVI, video, monitor.
Digital audio output for 5.1 suround sound.
They even support Linux by providing information to developers to create video drivers for it.
Wise men speak because they have something to say, Fools because they have to say something!!!!
All credit really should go to Issac and the other guys contributing to this project.
Recent CVS additions include a mythweather module and support for running decoding and encoding on different machines on the network (for a truly connected home ;p)
If all men were born equal and all software free...
It has been done before, and it will be done again, palms turning into robots, monitors into aquariums.
One might ask why?
Why are we all here?
for the computers?
for ourselfs?
Neither, the answer is: we are here to make the time we spend here count, why be a lamer spending time playing games on a M$ computer, or games without purpouse for that either.
Heck, if one makes linux on handhelds one could surely build a distrubition which includes all of it in a sleek design, and only having small clean coded apps for the different machines.
One way to make it legal would be to have it plug in based, and in some strange way leaking the "illegal" plug-ins on the net, with no warranty, (but with some community sense..)
no company behind, no single names, only the group.
Well, thats it for today
Of course, I'm not sure many will be taking the do-it-yourself assembly route. The masses always like their boxes to come fully assembled and requiring just one plug. I mean, Microsoft has their goliath coming to the States and I've heard about the Moxi Media Center (story here) which debuted at CES. Basically the Moxi Media Center is the all-in-one entertainment center that you're talking about in this article. Of course, it's no fun to let the corporations put it together for you because they'll cut corners and tie you into subscription based payments somehow. Oh well, I guess I'll continue dreaming.
Thanks for a great article! I enjoyed reading other people's thoughts about it.
Hey, did you see Oprah eat that chunk of feces on TV today? That was fucking awesome!
This has GOT to be old news: Well, my modded Xbox plays Divx, Xvid, mp3s, CDs, DVD movies, display pictures can stream media from my PC, plays MAME (I am sure I missed something) and play Xbox games. Thats close enough for me. Most or all of the software is free. It did not cost me a lot for what it does and the picture on the TV is excellent and the interface is simple. (I am tired of those ATI cards, wires from my PC to my TV and squinting at the Windows interface). I still have to record TV on my VCR, thats OK. Xbox is filling just about every hackers previous expectation of what it could do and then some.
X-Arcade
Unless you have free open-source software that can play the latest windows media player formats then your set up box WILL NOT have the same capabilities of the latest boxes being sold. Unfortunately such software would probably be in violation of the dmca... sorry.
Stanley Feinbaum, professional journalist and master debater! God bless the USA!
This little thing is what I use to merge A/V with my computer. Of course, I have a 24 inch monitor, so I don't suffer from having to play ps2 and vhs movies on a tiny little awful computer screen.
As for tivo capabilities, I don't know if there are open source drivers/software for it, but this little thing seems to be all you would need.
"Don't bite the hand that feeds you, becuase it's probly real big and could crush you or somthing." - From the Wise prov
"are we currently able to put together a free version of the big convergence media center others are trying to do?"
Not as long as you don't care about usability. Right now it's all about how smart we are because we figured out how to use Linux and how we need to get the best and the brightest and filter out the rest by having every potential open source user go through the same ordeal.
Sure, there are a few projects out there that are trying to do this kind of thing. And there are a lot of people who would be interested in this sort of solution, but with responses like:
what you are trying to say is "i want a free PVR-like thingie, can someone make one?"
...these projects will have a difficult time getting off the ground. I don't remember where I read it now, but someone once said...
The biggest problem with Linux is its supporters.
As the stereotype (which has been beautifully microcosmed in this discussion, BTW) is that they are a bunch of socially in adept zealots who have delusions of grandeur. The parent comment put this quite well in a language they would understand (though I'm sure it could have been conveyed in one line of Perl, yes).
So my question is (like) that of the original poster... when will someone with computer knowledge (that is not necessarily a *nix guru, though not a moron either) be able to follow some instructions on a site (buy this encoder board, install that DVD recorder) and setup a Digital Media Player that will cover the popular requests like MAME, DVD Video, MP3 (and OGG, and...), Slideshow (Image Display), etc?
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
It would be excellent to see the freevo project get better too. If MythTV and Freevo merged, that would the best of both worlds. Exciting times.
Of course, they'd be cracked within the week :-D
Yeah, just like the XBox encryption was cracked within a week, right?
Where the hell did this idiotic myth come from that hackers have some sort of magic that allows them to crack any encryption?
I find it stunning that no one has mentioned the excellent-looking Freevo project, which purports MP3, video, and image playback - and soon-to-be-supported DVR capability. Program guide integration is complete and the rest of the project, while slow-moving, seems to be pretty cool.
Now is the time to get a project like this off the ground - before manufacturers and media stamp out this opportunity for the consumer to assume more control and choices.
I've got one PC with a 21" NEC Multisync monitor. No TV, no Tivo, no Playstation, no stereo. And I love it. I'd hate to have the setup you've got.
The only downside is the monitor isn't as large as I'd like. 21" is pretty much a minimum size. I'm hoping for a huge flat widescreen monitor in the future.
My PC doesn't have an AIW or any other TV capability, because I don't have cable - thanks to the wonders of the internet, and my friends who do have cable, I don't really need it. But DVDs played on my PC look far better than on my friends' TVs. The colors are more vivid and the image is sharper - what's not to like? And 200gigs of instant-access MP3s kicks all kinds of ass over an MP3-enabled CD player. Logitech and Klipsch make speakers that sound terrific to me.
Best of all - if I rent a DVD and don't get time to watch it (happens all the time to me), I can just copy it to my hard drive 'til later.
And everything's available through one interface, in one place, with a wireless mouse or remote. No piles of remotes, no jungles of wires, no components stacked all over the place.
As far as I'm concerned, this is how it should be... bring on more!
Hardware:
- Moderately fast CPU and MB, plenty of RAM
- ATI Radeon 7000 (Composite/SVideo out) going to video in on TV
- Audio out to reciever
- Wireless KBD and mouse
- SNES Joypads wired to parallel port
Software:- MPlayer for DVD
- Snes9x for games
- Two X configs: One for TV, one for Monitor.
Not as user friendly as I would have hoped for the wife and kids, they still have the tendency to use an actual DVD and SNES console for games instead of the copies on the computer, but I think the experiment for me was at least successful. My current plan is to make it user friendly enough that I can put the DVD and SNES in my daughters room.-- 4 8 15 16 23 42
All this effort for a home entertainment system?
This seems like a colossal waste of brainpower to me, spending all this time and effort finding and integrating different sources, all so you can watch Joe Millionaire?
Now an Open Source hunger relief system, or an Open Source lift people out of poverty so they don't live their lives on drugs and contribute to anger-based crimes system, now THAT I can go for.
While it is true we are seeing convergence between the traditional TV and computer, and while this does portend an opportunity for open source in that regard, the net effect is a converged home, not just entertainment centers.
The new combo TV/computer will be part of the entire home system...one that includes the air conditioner (Now, in Korea, I can control my AC over the net), and the refrigerator...baby monitors...home security...etc.
Think open source home...
We're close, but not in the next two years.
http://movix.sourceforge.net
uses mplayer to play just about anything. only 20-30 mb on a cd, so plenty of room for streaming/recording/encoding tools...
Here's the key quote for those who don't want to register:
"Matsushita and Sony have agreed to jointly develop the Linux operating system for digital consumer electronic products, in a highly unusual and cooperative deal between two of the fiercest rivals in the industry... Sony and Matsushita will continue to use the existing operating systems for specific products - such as Windows for Vaio - but expect the newly developed version of Linux to be increasingly used in home electronic devices, such as portable and home AV products."
The reason this trend will go places is quite simple: The much-bandied-about "Microsoft Tax" is real, and the major CE manufacturers don't want to pay it. This combined with the strong likelihood (--> certainty) that MS will attempt to commoditized them ensures that they will fight back. These guys are not only smart, they are bigger than Microsoft (Sony: $60bn revenues) and they are determined to not get cut out of the market, or turned into Compaq/HP style failures. Who benefits? The Linux community is going to get a huge boost, because the single best weapon these firms have against MS is Linux, and they are going to use it with a vengeance.
it is in my pants
The new shuttle mini boxes.. roughly the size of a barbie microwave oven.. with the new nforce 2 chipset allows you get get a very powerful dolby digital 6 speaker compliant sound system. (About 600$ with everything included already)
... 1 for a sb audigy ... 2 for a dope ass video card with video out ... 3 for the tv tuner ... IR sensors are located on the mobo and you just need to buy the front panel extensions for those...
.. mp3 collection)- 100$
connect to that a usb TV tuner that supports Video Out also (for about 200$ from hauppage) and you have a little box that plays dvds on the tv along with surround sound
you have 200$ left over to buy an IR kit that you can plug into your computer's mobo and stick the receiver on the front panel and program your remote control. ( I know there's been lotsa projects on the web for remote controled computers and it's not that hard) simply program the remote's buttons with a specific command per button.. ie... button 1 will call winamp.. button 2 will call the tv tuner.. so on so forth. so for about 1000$ you can easily have a hobby to try and set something like this all up
btw speaker systems are not included in this equation... cuz good ones can throw yer costs another 300$.
if you don't like the oven.. you can buy a small form factor desktop case... it's roughly the size of your everyday Amplifier case. To make sure you can get a small one.. buy one of those ECS motherboards... only 3 pci slots (some have only 2)
here's a rack up of total costs
Case with power supply (Enlight is a good compnay)- 50$
Mobo (ECS brand)- 50$
CPU (p4's 1.8 ghz are cooler runnign and quieter)- 120$
SB audigy 1/2 platinum ex (comse you a remote that you can hack at and already has IR plus has all that digital audio out/in, line in/out, optical in/out for all your sound needs)- 160$
Geforce 4 ti4200 w/ video out- 150$
Hauppage winTV HDTV PCI- 230$
hard disk (80 gigs depending the size of your por
Klipsch pro media 5.1 speakers- 300$
USB gamepads x2- $40
DVD driver w/software- 50$
windows 2k- 80$
winamp- Free
Aol im- Free
Divx encoder/decoder- free
Watching pr0n on the big screen tv - Pricesless
Total Cost of Project: ~1400$
and it's very possible... I'm half way there already... all I need now is that HDTV tv tuner... and a big HDTV 60" plasma display.
Geez! Why don't you save your bitter rhetoric for the "Why we shouldn't bomb Iraq" posts... Nobody asked for your opinion on why everything sucks...
This was intended for those of us who DO care. Go read a book...
"Why would anyone want to tear down his car's engine and spend WAY more than the car is worth just to get an extra horse or two out of it? Anyway, cars are stupid and you all suck!"
What about mine!
Oh you said Cliff
I'm straighhhhhhhhhhtttttt!
aaaaaaahhh yes... yes baby moreeee
Yes, I think we are able to do something like this. The question is whether this will ever be a big hit outside the geek scene.
Free Software/Open Source is one thing: You program once, have fun, and then release the compiled files together with the source. Of which the latter will be gladly ignored by the masses. But that's OK. They use the compiled version and are happy. And you are happy that your program is being used. That you also share the compiled version doesn't add extra cost for you because it's digital stuff that can be copied effortlessly.
But with hardware it's a different game, IMO. Even if you offer the schematics for such a multimedia all-purpose entertainment thing, someone still has to compile... ehh build it. This time it's physical so easy copying is not possible (unless you have access to a replicator somewhere). So, who is going to do this? People won't be willing to assemble stuff for themselves. Heck, even *I* used to do more myself when I was younger (and had more time and enthusiasm). Nowadays I buy quite a lot...
But maybe it's the chance for some garage company to just build the stuff based on open sourced layouts? Hmmm... Not sure that this will work either. What about distribution channels? One reason why Free Software/OSS has been so successful is that almost everybody has access to the Internet somehow and if a person knows the right address, he/she can download all that is needed. So, the distribution is more or less just a matter of getting people to know where to look. Physical things however have to be shipped, to be physically delivered by any means. And people will want to have a look at them in some kind of shop before they are going to buy them. (The gateway business model)
So the bottomline of my reasoning is, that I am quite sceptical whether it will be a big success. But it could be a reasonable (moral) succes within the geek community, so why not try? Just don't expect to see the equivalent of RedHat or SuSE anytime soon.
Excellence: Moderate (mostly affected by comments on your karma)
You can have my hardware for free alright.
Its long hard and its a freeee willy!
You may now come suck my dick.
Thank you.
r13
www.helixcommunity.org
I have been considering the XBOX for just such a thing. You can get one for around $150 US. XboxMediaPlayer The XboxMediaPlayer for the Xbox allows you to use a modded Xbox to play DivX, XVID, (S)VCD (MPEG-1/2), MP3 & other supported video/audio formats via your TV so it can used as a multimedia jukebox. It also supports network streaming via XStream. Plus a simple clean looking interface navigatible via remote control. Plus there are XBox a MAME, NES, PSX, Atari 2600, c64 emulators ...
There are a few projects coming to fruition.
One converts exe's to run on the XBOX. And another is a non MS compiler. So
soon we will have all these apps available with out having to have a $25 mod
chip for the XBox.
I'm going to get two of these. One to replace my dead DVD player with the
media player.
The other for the ultimate MAME / emu. arcade machine I'm going to build.
Perfect solution for this application. CHEAP, TV out, good graphics and
networkable. Plus you can play XBOX games on it too!
Um, moderators... /. submission.
/ homepage/
That link is in the actual
http://www.mythtv.org/
http://www.mplayerhq.hu
http://x.mame.net/
There, I put three links in from the submission.
Hey, where's my +15 Informative?
put the what in the where?
...it's still "in development" and difficult to set up. I think what the poster is asking is:
When will turning a pc into something that clones the functionality of a TiVo (plus any extras OSS coders can think of like ogg support) be something the average user can do by plugging everthing in, inserting a setup/install CD containing only free software, and hitting next a few times?
My (admittedly cynical) opinion on this is that years will pass before anything remotely passable is released. I hope I'm wrong.
At least the more computer savvy and DIYers are. There are several packages out the to turn your pc into a PVR, such as:
Freevo
and
MythTV
The problem with these packages at this point are twofold.
First, they aren't exactly easy to set up. Most people will need to recompile their kernels for bttv support, and not every Linux user out there knows how to safely rebuild a kernel. Then, at least with freevo, there is the matter of getting your dependencies set. This can be difficult for some, especially Redhat 7.3 users, as many of the packages that freevo relies on claim Redhat's versions of gcc or some obscure perl module are b0rked.
Also, they are missing some of the features that some commercial PVR's boast, such as HDTV (the tuner cards cost about as much as a PVR) and making suggestions for shows you might like.
Personally, I'd like to see a PVR distro.. perhaps a even Live CD. That would help solve the difficulty of setup, but as far as lack of features go, given time, I suspect any one of these projects can superceed commercial PVR's, at least among the slashdot type crowd.
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. It's just that yours is stupid.
I've just started putting together the hardware yesterday. It's very do-able, and there are a few people that are actually doing a great job at setting up nice GUIs. (MythTv). I plan on basing it off of Linux, but if I can't find the neccessary parts/drivers/software, I'll end up using Windoze 98. I'm actually building the thing in a customized case that will go pretty well with my entertainment system, and I'll have it networked with my other computers for head-head action... It's not just a glorified Tivo. It's another computer on my network, who's primary function will be to replace my DVD player, VCR, CD Player, while adding a MP3 player & another spot for gaming.
/.
It's very possible & many people are doing it.
(Media.Box, ebox, FreeplayTV, etc...)
Just a side note... This is not a replacement for Tivo or any other recorder.
It's alot more expensive & a lot harder...
This is a project for people like those that read
-MasMan
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe."
-Albert Einstein
Oh! And this one time, at band camp...
All this lather about "open" and still, STILL, using MP3!?
Who in their right mind would want a machine guaranteed to hang / crash / burn or otherwise take a vacation over at Best Buy for a six month repair.
The most elementary boxes of dvd and telly have problems..lets not put yet more chips in them just to see how difficult we can make it all be for ourselves.
I am out of this demographic since I never watch the telly nor do I game play..........but I do watch movies and my fav combo is a laptop with a projector for movies. The screen is as big as you could want and nice detail too. ( Mac laptop )
(Toshiba projector ) hooked up to the stereo it's as good as it gets..and you can watch movies projected on dogs , kids , grandparents and even the drapes to entertain the weirdoes across the street.
By the way Bill gates is Satan , honest.
I have been spending a lot of time trying to figure out how to get a system like that together, and found only one place that seems to really put it all together well. You have to consider making the unit quiet, as well as pay attention to sound and video quality etc. All of the components and software are available but it is hard to know what works together. Cellar Cinemas is a Home Theater installer that makes "HTPC's" ( http://www.cellarcinemas.com ) I recently ordered their Shelftop 460 model ( http://www.cellarcinemas.com/cgi-bin/store/HTPC-46 0.html ) but have not received it yet. They have a lot of good info on their site as well. I asked them why they didnt' use Media Edition and was told that right now you can't buy the software and they don't have a deal with Microsoft. They also pointed out that all Media Edition is is an interface that runs existing software ( for PVR funtionality etc), and that they didn't pick the best stuff.
Frankly, I don't see "convergence" happening in the living rooms of most Americans. How convenient would it really be for most? Not very. A single system unit might be of interest to a person who lives alone, but of what use is it for a normal family. Oh, it would be useful for generating screaming matches between Billy and Janey, because he wants to watch Gunsmoke (dates me, doesn't it ) and she wants to play Nintendo. There's only one screen, so convergence in this case (which would be VERY common) yields a benefit of ZERO.
* As is generally the case, my opinions do not reflect those of my employer.
HDTV tuner
PVR
Progressive-scan DVD player
Music Server
I'm still a ways away from purchasing an HDTV-capable TV, and am taking the time to educate myself along the way. An affordable (less than $1k) home-built entertainment appliance like I've described that doesn't require a keyboard for light operation is probably a ways away.
---- Politics: Kissing ass and pointing blames.
Keep in mind that not everyone has access to what I think is the key attraction for a HTPC - Tivo. I live in Canada, and there are no PVRs available - except for Bell ExpressVu, which offers one as part of one of its digital satellite recievers, but not standalone for those of us that don't want their service. The only option available to me is an HTPC. The problem is that there are no good TV Tuners available for a reasonable price (Hauppagge makes one that looks great, but it's $250 US). So I'm desperately looking for a good solution.
My other sig is funny!
Then this is not for you. The reason people build systems like this is not economical, it's because they can. Why else would we have projects like mythtv.org, or freevo.sourceforge.net. Other projects have a similar folowing, like text mode quake (http://webpages.mr.net/bobz/ttyquake/), or my favorite recent project, Bar Monkey (http://www3.hmc.edu/~bgreer/barmonkey/). Again, if you have to ask, this product isn't for you.
Something i've been watching for awhile now. It has just about everything all there. http://staff.washington.edu/jmgasper/
lets face it wmn asf mov are probobly the worst formats for video there is. standrad mpeg2 does the trick and in worst case divx there you have two standard formats that just about any computer can play. why would i want to use incompatile codecs?
and the best thing with mpeg/mpeg2 just burn it an watch in a ordinary cheap dvd player
There is a great forum over at www.avscience.com the specific forum link is:
? s= f7c95c994ee82c919bd2336b4ad8bc8b&forumid=26
? s= f7c95c994ee82c919bd2336b4ad8bc8b&forumid=76
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php
That forum is related to all things PC/Media related.
They also have a specific Linux users forum at:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php
The other forums at avscience are great resources too, so dont hesitate to check them out, but these two forums should fit this particular topic.
Well, pretty close.. and it only cost about $350!
One xbox. $199
one mod chip. $31
one 120GB drive. $120 (although if you just want to stream your media from your computer you don't need this).
There's mame, and nes, snes, genesis, sms, atari 2600, gameboy, gameboy advance, atari lynx and commodore 64 emulators for it.
There's xbmp to play just about every audio and video file format in existance.
There's even a way to connect a usb tv tuner and get some tivo functionality (though I don't have that.. kazaa is my tivo!).
It plays dvds and regular cds too.
Oh yeah, and xbox games! And xbox (and nes games!) over the Internet.
And also basically serves as my home file server, since its 120GB drive is the biggest thing in my house.
I just wish it was all legal.
Convergence, IMHO, is for the guy with a lot of extra money, a lot of extra time, and a burning desire to read his e-mail on that 54-inch flat-screen plasma monitor in his living room.
I don't trust anyone who wants to turn a PC into a "media center." The convergence devices that Microsoft and others envision are designed for PASSIVE entertainment. Don't stand up and say anything, just sit there on the couch and watch. An internet-connected PC is designed for ACTIVE entertainment. It encourages you to participate, to communicate, to share your knowledge and ideas and creations with the world. Linux was not created by some schmo on the sofa with a clicker in his hand.
This is not to say that passive entertainment is a bad thing, mind you. What I'm saying is that a general-purpose computer is not the right tool for this job. Ultimately, we're better off having a PC for one set of tasks and a TiVo, DVD Player and PS2 for another. If people really wanted full-fledged PCs in their living rooms, the guys who created WebTV would be billionaires right now.
Visit me on the web at Permanent4.com.
It will look great, and come in an attractive package. When it doesn't work, you can view a comprehensive 'help' screen, which will mainly tell you how advanced their technology is. It won't work at all with any games more than a year old, and will be two slow for any games coming out next year.
I have been considering the XBOX for just such a thing. You can get one for around $150 US.
XboxMediaPlayer A simple clean looking interface navigatible via remote control.Plus there is a MAME, NES, PSX, Atari 2600, c64 emulators ... than run on
it.
There are a few coming to fruition.
One converts exe's to run on the XBOX. And another is a non MS compiler. So soon we will have all these apps available with out having to have a $25 mod chip for the XBox.
I'm going to get two of these. One to replace my dead DVD player with the media player.
The other for the ultimate MAME / emu. arcade machine I'm going to build.
Perfect solution for this application.
Inexpensive, TV out, small form factors, sound, 4 usb ports, remote controlable, good graphics and networkable. I can't make a PC this cheap!
Since MS looses $$ on the hardware, let them subsidize your media system!
Plus you can play XBOX games on it too!i often use my powerbook too watch movies or ;)
may play compueter a athlon xp1800 connected to a infocus projector. and i must say that life has become a hole bunch easier since i throw windows out the window. B.G proboly are the great dark lord
Over the past few months I've been looking into this. I really want a PVR, but can't buy one off-the-shelf (no service available in .nl).
One of the things I noticed is that it doesn't seem possible to put more than one capture card into a PC. At least I've seen reports that say Windows can only handle on capture card. If this is true, it would be a shame. I currently have two VCRs. If I buy a PVR, I'd like to improve on current functionality and be able to record two programs while watching (with PVR functions like 'pause live TV' available) a third.
Now, I haven't been able to absolutely confirm this. Does anyone here know, and is the situation different when you use Linux?
And how adaptable are current open-PVR efforts? Is it possible for a non-programmer (at least, nothing beyond a few simple Applescripts) to e.g. get the software to recognize guide data from a different website than originally intended? Most software PVRs seem linked pretty much to a single guide data provider.
I would just like to point out that I submitted this article anonymously, and the editors attached a name to it. Do they always do that? A little strange, if you ask me.
image if something like the hard drive died in your PVR thingy and you have to deal with the woman whining about how she lost the episode of Friends, Elimidate or Joe Millionaire that she hadn't watched, and that she won't be able to record her all-important tv shows for a couple weeks...makes sense to never set one up...
MoviX is a linux distro designed for just that. It's new, young, and needs developers. (Roberto is great though) Many of the PVR apps build on an existing distro, this one is entirely to BE a PVR. Also, it boots from CD, so the hard drive is free to use for storage, etc. http://movix.sf.net -Shawn
...Life is like a bad analogy
I'd give it a month or two. MythTV, Mplayer, LindowsOS. It's only logical.
Mark my words.
And he's constantly looking for more.
You're the villan they're looking for. I didn't think anybody like you actually existed.
... the issue appear to be one of simplification. www.mythtv.org and www.freevo.org are both examples of some pretty advanced projects that could easily stand up against the MS offering with some dedicated resource applied to it to cover the install and hardware issues. We know that it's more than possible... one poster commented that he would stick with his Tivo. If memory serves me correctly Tivo is a linux based box that some commercial vendors have done a great job of packaging. When you look at shipping home entertainment goods of this nature the project constructed around it has to have a really big set of ambitions around integration with existing home entertainment hardware and functionality. MythTV still has to tackle things like control of external set top boxes and time shifted TV... it will come, but the project team seems to be too small to tackle it in any timely manner.
Partition your drives to create a 10 GB c: and Ghost that sucker...
You'll lose your programs (err... TV shows), but you can have the media center back up as quick as you can get back from CompUSA with a newer (bigger) HD.
and play all sorts of better games
There are a few PVR open projects in early development.
Here are a few mentions :
Dreamix
Xbox Media Player
Try an XBOX. Works for me until the Linux Media Center version comes out :P.
The simple geek answer is, because it was there. Or maby, because I can. One part of being a geek that I enjoy is rolling your own [insert anything techie here]. Sure I could get better performance by spending a few hundred on something someone else made, but there are those of us who will do it ourselves just to prove that we can and to brag about it to others.
And that's the reason why my brother uses a 600Mhz computer for general computeing while haveing a 900 Mhz box siting on top of the tv with no other use than Roms and dvd's.
-- Any comments seen here are not mine, but a mixture of alchohol and lack of sleep.
...I already have this. Take one pIII 550, 448mb ram, gf2mx, network card, dvdrom drive and cdrom-burner and a hauppage wintv2go card. .edu line :)
Then get the dvr software hauppage has on it's website, add mame and your done! I record whatever I want on my HD, timed useing a tvguide website. The only thing I have to do is put in when and what I want to record, presto! That last step is really all that separates my setup from a true tivo...but then, I only pay subscription for my phat
So what exactly is the problem here? That it runs windows?
-- Waht? Tehr's a preveiw buottn?
After recently doing a review of the HP Media Center, it looks like TiVo series 2 is still the way to go. Granted, you could just get a PVR-capable videocard and go from there, but the cost-to-benefit ratio is still very much in favor of set-top solutions. Like a game console, they just work. No drivers, no viruses, no constant upgrading or all the other niggling issues with owning a computer. Sure TiVo doesn't play CDs or MP3's, but DVD players with those features are easy to come by at a the fraction of the cost of a PVR computer. The only advantage I'm seeing with a PVR computer ATM is media duplication.
I'm surprised no one seems to have mentioned the TuxBox project.
See MythTV.
you probably just need a full version of some dvd playback software. I believe the demos have a time restriction on them.
able to put together a free version
Yes, I already have thousands of songs and games on my PC. I could get movies easily, but am not really into much.
But, since when was my computer FREE? And broadband isn't FREE either. What are you talking about.
A good PC will always outdo any media center console. And is second to none if you consider pr0n. Why, of course.
Like they need a villain. They'll take away rights from people all over the world, regardless.
The MPAA, RIAA and sometimes even Congress are damage, and geeks will route around them.
As long as the MPAA, RIAA and the few cable/satellite companies have monopolies on media delivery, and continue to cling to outdated business models, resist new technologies, squash fair use, and attempt to implement nonsensical and tyrannical schemes of all kinds, they are the villain. Far as I'm concerned, anyone who disagrees is a retard, a shill, or just plain old-fashioned contrary (and good for you if you are that curmudgeon - it's cute).
These corporations could choose to sell me the services and products I want, and I'd be glad to pay for them. But they won't. They are irrelevant, and the world will move on in spite of them.
Ive been using a PC as my MEdia center for months now. Works great. My secret was NOT to use a remote control. I just used a wireless mouse from logitech, and have it hooked up to my projector full time. 12 foot screen all the time is nice. I did have to write my own software to handle an Episode Guide, I used the Creative Digital VCR PVR ($50 now). It does the Mpeg2 encoding on its card, so it doesnt eat up CPU. Plus it is easy to export to mpg files for use anywhere.
So, TV, DVD, DivX, Mp3's--anything you can think of, and its is pretty easy to use--Mainly due to Logitech wireless LED mouse.
I posted my hastily written EPG code here: http://x-epg.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=55.
I Encrypt My IM's
FreeplayTV
does what you want, is completely open source (hardware design and the software it runs, currently MythTV), and you can buy a preassembled system from them for just over $300 (although it doesn't include NTSC, you have to pay ATI another $50 or so for that). Since it's based on MythTV, you can play MAME on it, and many other things.
I want a little bit more before I buy: SPDIF output, for example. But they have the basics already; the rest is coming soon.
-Billy
The Win TV 250 PVR has an encoder that some users are having success with the encoding, but it is still very young. Serious discussion is going on on this discussion group. However, the pci card forces users to choose a larger form factor box that can accommodate a pci card instead of the cool small boxes. The MPEG decoder portion has been gloriously included in the new via epia board using the new chipset. I haven't tested how well it works (or if it is supported in linux yet).
In essence, using off the shelf components takes a lot of hardware that would normally be on the motherboard of a true home theater component. Thus, to achieve this we are getting closer but not quite there yet.
All the other operations (mp3/games/networking) etc are already available and very usable on a 933 mhz Via C3.
And no, I don't mean like the standard of one implementation.
1. But I do mean a CD-distro a la Knoppix that you can pop in your PVR-machine and have it work, and that'll be the "standard". Not running on top of ten different distros. There are a lot of good reasons for having ten different distros, but not on a task-spesific device where you'll ideally want to stay in media-center programs 100% of the time.
2. Absolutely no messing with a computer first, setting up anything, or running any kind of command utility. At the very most, some kind of hack prompt to choose NTSC/PAL. GUI interface for the rest.
3. With a good "supported hardware" list that could be a lot shorter than Linux's (like: these TV cards autodetect & tested). As little manual configuring as possible, preferably none. Put some work into autodetection if there are working drivers that don't have so.
4. Some "smart" media library. For always-on users, the ability to put in a cd, have it get the names from FreeDB, rip as ogg and store (default setting being "manual", with an "always" checkbox. After all, it could be borrowed or something, and then it's not covered by fair use to copy it... Kinda like Windows never wants to remember I want to use Nero and not Windows to burn CDs.
5. Dunno if it's being done, but run CDs and DVDs at 1x when playing directly (you can dynamically set this can't you?) so they'll be *quiet*. No 52x CD-reader or 16x DVD-reader with a high-pitch annoying whine. Here's definately some of the reason I think you need *one* distro. Keep speed up if you just want to store it for future use though.
6. *After* you have achived that, try to inspire some mobo-producer to integrate the popular components on one mobo, with a custom made sleek case, something like the mini-ITX/mini-ATX cases I see around. One 5 1/4" slot (CD/DVD/CD-burner/DVD-burner), one 3 1/2" slot (HDD). Ethernet, Firewire and USB for wireless keyboad/mouse. Make it low and wide, like a VCR not like a tower. Important: Make a couple fronts, minimum black/silver. Find a spot on the case front to integrate the IR/radio sensor. A "standard" LCD would also be nice, for when you're only playing music. As for processors, I wouldn't try to put a 2-3GHz proc in this one. Music & DVDs need silence. Cool CPU, passive cooling if you can (maybe with a heat changer like the Shuttle XPCs). As this'll be a ways off, probably SATA, like the Barracuda V. Those smaller cables will be important in such a tight case.
But like I said, start with one PVR-distro CD that'll run directly off your TV and I think you've come far. Also, don't forget what that Ethernet connection is there for, SMB or similar for moving files to and from.
Kjella
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
You can do this in both windows and Linux but it requires a lot of searching and effort.
As of this time their is no easy manual to do this, although it's getting closer. The hard part is getting the TV tuner bit to work.
Essentially in Linux you have to: supercheck the hardware compliance, download sixteen software bits, recompile the kernel and pray.
I have this set up on my old PC under windowze:
AMD350/392MB/5GB With a 8MB ATI all-in-wonder
XP/ATI software for TV/ WinDVD for DVD
It lives as a secondary TV in the Dining room off the kitchen. As a bonus I can play windows and real streaming media from Italy. Getting the non approved drivers for the ATI card to work with XP was the only hard part.
The question
2) TiVo is a company with company goals. These aren't always in line with what people want.
3) MS wants in in this area. If there's a Free alternative to what is essentually an applience (read MS's inertia doesn't apply) then hw manufacturers/assemblers will quite happily tell MS where to go to save a couple of hundred dollars.
4) It'll be fun.
Nerd: Derogatory term typically directed at anybody with a lower Slashdot ID than you.
As far as I know, Linux is stuck with Hi-Fi analog and that doesn't cut it for the audiophile. In fact, once the NWN Linux client is released, digital surround sound will be the only thing keeping me from booting back to M$.
Please, somebody, prove me wrong and post a link to some sound card that can send Digital (TM) 5.1 audio data to a Digital reciever/amp under Linux.
The other alternative would be to create an alternative open standard for digital surround sound interfaces between PCs, Reciever/Amps, DVD players, and the like. Such a thing would be a great triumph for geekdom over the likes of Sony and M$ in one crushing blow.
-Zuchinis
One program that I've seen but haven't really used but is going open-source shortly is Media-Box.
Nothing More to Say Here...
We'll I'm a student a nd I find that I'm broke most of the time.
I need a computer for my studies, so I have one, but I don't own a tv, stereo or any other media equipment.
I couldn't afford a mediacenter even if I wanted to. Making my own from open source software seems a lot cheaper.
The problem I have with this whole thing isn't whether you can build a PC that does all the tricks. I think you can, and I think you can even find a nice A/V component style case for it. The only thing I'd do that I haven't yet heard of someone else doing is make it remotely manageable via SOAP, so that I can build my own user interface or integrate it with other stuff.
My problem is finding a receiver that's built to handle the whole deal and provide the sort of user interface you need to manage it. OK, I can hook up my PC to my receiver as an A/V source and sink, no problem. I can do the same thing (as sources, sinks, or both) with my satellite, CD, tuner, DVD, TV, VCR, cassette deck, phonograph, PS/2 or XBox or whatever, etc. But now try to route all the signals just the way you want, and then get device A (sink) to tune device B (source) to the desired channel. It's a nightmare, if it's even possible.
Those who think of things in terms of computers are still too far removed from those who think of things in terms of A/V components. I'd like to see a forward-thinking company that builds high-end receivers engineer something really non-traditional that lets you take any source signal and route it to any/multiple appropriate sink(s) (note that speakers are a sink), that handles multiple such paths simultaneously, that operates all your devices remotely via I/R or RF or SOAP, and that does it all through an easy front-end. You should be able to apply decoding (e.g., Dolby) to any appropriate signal. You'd probably need a notebook as your remote (client) communicating via wireless to your receiver (server).
I'd also like to see satellite/digital cable tuners get a bit more real...these things should provide multiple outputs, each of which can be tuned independently. Who wants to have to buy another tuner just so you can watch A while recording B? Maybe I haven't done enough research: does such a beast exist?
Please donate your spare CPU cycles to help fight cancer and other diseases
Legal costs to fully ok any open source code which is shipped alongside any commercial code is the 'GPL tax'.
The main problem I see is that you need specialty hardware to make the box run like a set-top box. No matter what OS you run there's time for post and time for loading the os and the main GUI. Most folks don't want to wait 30 seconds to a minute to boot their media box. Another concern I have is sound... silent/ultraquiet computers are still a bit underpowered in typical configurations for capturing and divx playback. I looked into it but with fundamental problems like these you have to weigh the value more heavily.
(entire manual excerpted below) Help: Todo.
How many people write these "640k is enough for me" only to karma whore for a +5 when they reply on another account aginst their origional post?
I really found it funny when one person was caught doing that.
It isn't as bad now, but I remember "back in the day" that VCRs use to eat video tapes all the time. Did I bitch to Sony, well not directly (unless they were in ear shot to my cussing ;)). I'd either fix it myself or take it in to get repaired.
People already store stuff that is far more valuable and, in some cases like family photos or emails, impossible to reproduce on their computers. I don't see how losing episodes of ER (show they probably shouldn't have on their computers anyway) is going to make things any worse.
Oh, we exist. And there are far, far too many of us to control, or to arrest, or to demonize.
Where have you been? It's like this on every college campus in the nation.
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
It blows my mind that after 2 or more years "debating" hardware specs and distributions, no one has bothered to just make something WORK yet. Why do you need a full distribution? Why do you need fancy hardware?
I'm a firm believer that ALL you need is a suitable Window Manager, a hand-me-down PC, and a $30 TV Out card off price-watch.
Why do you need an ISO? There are already a lot of Linux Distro's that have most of the apps you need, just unselect the stuff you don't need.
The Slick Interface is the trick. I don't even think you need a full blown "Window Manager" because you would want to run EVERYTHING full screen anyhow. All you need is something like Acid Launcher hacked to be used full screen, and return to the launcher when your done with that app.
The ONLY bell/whistle you need at all is complete control of your apps and your launcher by using a USB GamePad (Logitech and MicroSoft sell several for about $20-$40).
If you could grab a gamepad, choose a game or play an MPEG by ICON on your TV screen using the gamepad as a pointer, and when exiting the game/movie you come back to the launcher... What else do you need?
The Launcher HAS to be full screen, and easily hackable (text file that you can enter a number of buttons in, with only command line and path to the icon for each button needed).
Once your that far, I don't think it will be that long before people start hacking apps that work well in full screen mode with gamepad control.
I just want MythTV ported to XP. Call me sick and twisted and flame me for not running Debian... but my home entertainment center PC right now is an XP box. Runs all the programs I want and I never (ever) have a problem with it.
While Guide++ with ATI's player/scheduler is okay, and PowerDVD works well for DVD's, and Winamp is great, I really really want to get one interface for all of it. No more mucking in 4 different apps/gui styles. The only other thing I can think of doing is making some custom skins for the whole of them to make them look unified. I'd just wrather have MythTV on windows though.
For a digital convergence box Yoshi at techTV put every console I can think of into a server case along with an awesome PC. I can't remember what the OS of choice was...
"Do not be swept up in the momentum of mediocrity." - anon
Ok, so I was a contest semifinalist. The linux4tv
contest was doomed from day one since the board did
not feature an OPEN design. I am still waaiting for the schematics. The I2c lines were not brought out the the PCI slots. So you can't use any off the shelf tv cards. I figured.. no big deal I will cut etches on the board and run my own lines to the appropriate pins on the bus.. I still don't have the schematics so I can not make the change.
The substituted a cheam EM8700 chip. No Divx support, no mpeg3, just mpeg1 and mpeg2.
No 3d support and a 3rd party 3D graphics card won't work with thier half baked PCI support.
the PCI support is very limited, if the card needs i2c, it won't work, and you can only have a card in slot2, a pci card in slot 1 or slot 3 will stop the board from booting.
So I'd stay away from anything national semiconductor tries to sell, and stay away from
Sigma Designs. because Sigma Designs CRAP!!
They have no clue on how to design hardware.
having the network interface interrupt and
the MPEG decode chip connected to the same interrupt line, SHAME ON THEM! AND no schematic.
If I had a schematic I could have at least modified my board.
This board is fodda for my tesla coil. That's about it. It's not worth the $60.00 I paid for a dvd rom drive for it, or the $20.00 I shelled out for the ATX case. It's crap, and the companies behind it, Sigma Designs and national semiconductor are crap! They have no clue and are
going to kill the linux4tv project before DRM takes over.
So I wouldn't wast your money. check out www.linux4tv.com and check out the CRAPPY SUPPORT, the Long wait for responses from their
staff that has no clue.
DMP (Digital Media Player) - Like we need another acronym!
... ... ...
I was looking at my stack of stereo equipment this last week. My stack includes an A/V receiver, 5 disk CD changer, DVD player, 2 VCRs, cable box, MiniDisk Recorder, DAT Recorder, Tape Deck and a Turntable (not to mention the input for the computer). I remember having to shop around for some time in order to find an A/V receiver that had the number of connections that my system required. My epiphany came when I thought about what I would buy if I were shopping for the same system today.
I rarely use my MD or DAT deck anymore. They are more a throwback to a time when the only way to get a decent digital recording at home was to purchase a $500+ deck such as these. Most everything I listen to now is either off a CD-R that I recorded on my computer or MP3s streaming for it. I have thought for some time about getting a Tivo-like device what would essentially serve to do to my video what the computer has done for my audio. But I found that the off-the-shelf variants do not have the features I would want (namely DVD recording, network connectivity and MP3 playback). So when thinking of my A/V rack and what I would do differently today I came to this realization...
Almost all media is digital anymore, and most is prepackaged on a CD or DVD. So with this fact in mind, you would need only one A/V component to accomplish 90% of day-to-day A/V functionality. Many DVD decks are about 20 there now with DVD, Audio CD, PhotoCD, and MP3 playback. But what about the up-start OGG audio format? Or the DivX / MPEG 4 format? A closed system is unlikely to support new formats as they are released. Plus I have yet to see an A/V component DVD Recorder with Tivo-like functionality (though they are coming). The only digital entertainment form that we've not yet covered that now comes on CD / DVD is video games.
What I'm suggesting is a Digital Media Player that all you do is feed it a disk and it plays it, be it an MP3 collection, Audio CD, Blockbuster DVD or the latest PS2 release. Now I do not have delusions of grandeur, I know that the PS2 and XBox games of today will not run on current commodity PC hardware and I know that there would have to be SOME user intervention, but this is what I want! Besides, we can have the next best thing - the games of yesterday (Sega, Nintendo, Atari, etc.) thanks to projects like MAME.
So this is the type of functionality I have in mind. Add a 5-disk Carrousel and an A/V Component sized case to the features below and I'd have my ultimate convergence device.
Features Wishlist:
* Data Sources
Inserted Disk Media (CD, CD-R, DVD, DVD±R, etc.)
Support for multiple CD / DVD Drives
Internal Hard Disk(s)
Mapped Network Share (10/100 or Wireless Connectivity)
Analog Audio/Video Input (Attached Cable, VCR, etc.)
Digital Audio/Video Input (FireWire Digital Camcorder, etc.)
Internet
* Digital Video Playback
DVD (High Priority)
DivX / MPEG 4 (High Priority)
VCD
SVCD
Quicktime
Windows Media Player
* Digital Video Recording
Recording Qualities
MPEG 2 (DVD Quality)
DivX / MPEG 4
Other varying lower qualities (like EP on a VCR)
Recording Destination
Onto Inserted CD-R / DVD±R
Onto Internal Hard Disk(s)
Onto remaining free space (Hard Disk(s) or Inserted CD-R / DVD±R)
* Digital Audio Playback
Formats
Audio CD
MP3
OGG
Internet Radio Streams
AM / FM Radio Tuning (Optional)
* Digital Audio Recording
Recording Sources
Inserted Audio CD
Internet Radio Streams
AM / FM Radio
Recording Qualities
Audio CD Quality (Lossless)
MP3 (user defined bitrates/etc.)
OGG (user defined bitrates/etc.)
* Digital Image Display/Slideshow
Assorted Thumbnail and Individual Image Views
PhotoCD (Lower Priority)
* WebTV-esque Internet Via LAN Connectivity
Web Browser
Let users do their email on HotMail.com / etc!
* User Interface
Onscreen (TV) Interface (Tivo / ReplayTV-esque)
Web enabled interface
Ability to do most/all functions available thru the standard interface via a web browser. Note webserver / website would need password protection.
* IR Remote Compatibility
* MAME Classic Video Game Emulation
So what have I missed? Is there anything you would add to this list of features? One could argue more PC-like functionality, like word processing and whatnot. But this is to be an A/V component after all. The web interface is more for access to streaming media then actual surfing. But what would add to this list? What could you live without?
"1984" was ment to be a warning, not a guidebook. You hear that Kim Jong-il!? BushCo?!
Wow, mythTV looks really good!
How well does it all go together? This looks like quite the product.
-Zipwow
I don't know which is more depressing, that 2/3 didn't care enough to vote, or that 1/2 of those that did are crazy.
What the balls is an anger-based crime system?!
--grendel drago
Laws do not persuade just because they threaten. --Seneca
Well, I currently use my Linux box for everything too. I have a ATI TV Wonder card for TV (XawTV to watch and record things) and then use my DVD drive with SBLive 5.1/Cambridge Soundworks DTT3500 for Dolby Digital Surround Sound. I've got how to's on my site with config files and screenshots of this stuff. Works for me.
TV http://www.linuxlogin.com/linux/ati_tv.php
DVD/AC3 DTS Sound http://www.linuxlogin.com/linux/emu10k1.php
Anyone else want an RF Remote on such an animal? This is probably a seperate project, but how hard is it to get a remote to go "play" in whatever software you've selected?
CitrusTV (http://www.citrustv.net): the Nation's Oldest & Largest Entirely Student-Run Television Station
I dunno if its been covered or not, I throw my modest karma at your mercy, BUT:
Microsoft has released their WinXP MCE doing all the stuff that the artcle talks about wanting to do, and it supposedly outdoes any free option out there. Unfortunatly it only works with a couple video cards, and still uses a lot of cpu power to do what it does. Despite this, Anandtech thinks that the interface is nice and polished and does quite well. I guess the major downside is that you cant actually buy it, you have to buy a computer loaded with it from the start. nngh
Oh well, take a look at that anandtech article and make your own judgements.
It's easier to fight for one's principles than to live up to them.
... unless you can find a supported hardware mpeg encoder. With software encoding, You really want an Athlon XP 1800 or Pentium 4 2Ghz to do simultaneous record + playback (i.e. pause live TV) with reasonable quality.
If all of the chips in the system have DRM, it will cease to be open. By "open", I mean hackable. DRM is not hackable, thus neither is any important part of the system.
So, you'd need to design the system using open chips. Thankfully, there's hardware people out there who get this at Open Cores.
My house is litered with linux and FreeBSD boxes, in fact out of my entire house's computers (roomates included) there is only one windows box. The damn tv box. We have considered greatly trying to switch to linux but there are too many huge problems in the way. 1. Although linux does have alot of great video and audio players, and support for lots of good codecs we have at least 40gigs of video (out of over 200 gigs) that uses codecs that will only play in windows media player. This video isn't usually the best quality, most of it is anime and various american cartoons (aqua teen hunger force, dr katz) and some is tv shows (mr show, snl, kids in the hall) but we still want to watch all of this. 2. We have normal cable and an ati radeon 7500 all-in-wonder, with guide plus + this makes our own little homemade tivo, which is really nice since we can record shit into mpeg-2 and encode it into divx after editing which you can't do with tivo yet. This software isn't available in linux and frankly, never will. 3. Although linux has made a lot of advancments in getting good drivers for controllers there are still alot of controllers without linux drivers, we happen to have one and like it very much. We have an archive of over 30gigs of roms (full mame set included) and yah, they will run in linux but we can't use one of our best controllers. That's about it, the biggest problem being the bullshit windows media player only video codecs, its really pisses me off that people even use them to encode video but, they do, and im not gonna go and try to find that video somewhere else. I love the idea of the linux media box but it will probably end up being like java.... good idea, but damn the implementations.
Check out Telly.
It's a Linux based box with photos, pvr, music, etc. with TV out and IR. If they can ever bring this to market, it'll run $699.
I was going to build my own, but would end up spending more cash and building a sub-par hack UI. I need something that the wife can work so I can toss my 13 yr. old VCR before it dies.
What the hell is insightful about this comment. The automatic assumption by the author is that since the original post stated something about MAME then ALL activities that the user intended for the device must be illegal. "Oh you said MAME so you must also be ripping off the RIAA and making MP3's and stealing every other type of copyrighted material" as if MP3's are by definition illegal and as if someone downloading ROM's must also rip every other form of media.
Maybe there are some of us that have legitimate uses even for things like MAME. Maybe there are some of us who rip our entire TAPE collection down to MP3. Maybe there are some of us who burn family videos to DVD. Maybe if we're not tied to the corporate "standards" and controls there will be more independent content, free content, etc. But maybe as long as cynical jackasses like you continue to put everyone who mentions MP3 and DVD in the same sentence, into a "pirate" outfit, then we won't get anywhere.
I have 6 boxes (all 800+ MHZ) all networked together along with an XBOX and Playstation 2. One of the boxes already connects to my main server and outputs it's signal to the TV and uses Playstation 2 controllers and a wireless kb+mouse for operation. All the games (20,000+) movies and mp3s are stored on a central server feeding the 5 other boxes. I don't need no stinking PVR! A PVR is just like WebTV compared to a Computer. Get the damn real thing or lose out!
[ brakken ]
are we currently able to put together a free version of the big convergence media center others are trying to do?
:)
Yes. I have one. My file-server contains a DVB card (receives digital satellite, hard-decodes MPEG and exports audio and video) and an IR receiver, which are both cabled up to my living room.
As other posters report, there are similar commercial solutions on- or close-to- market, but this is all open, all free.
And yes, it's all integrated. The centrepiece is VDR (FAQs, plugins here) (please don't hurt the webservers). Plugins enable MP3, DVD, SVCD, DiVX and more.
The drawbacks, you ask? It's Linux. (ducks for cover) What I mean is that, like so many other Linux projects, the developers are much more interested in building new features than working on stability. The code is also growing in a fairly uncontrolled way, although the developers are working on that problem.
In my opinion, this system will never be as polished as the commercial solutions. But it will remain a hell of a lot more flexible (you want Ogg? You got it!). And it's a lot of fun.
Chipped xbox and xboxmediaplayer is cheaper. Plus you get the somewhat bonus of being able to play xbox games.
With the introduction of Ultra Quiet cooling, and small sexy pc cases, its becomming easier to build 'lounge pcs' See the Creative SliX http://www.slixpc.com and the Shuttle http://www.shuttle.com series of ultra quiet 'lounge' pcs.
You my dear sir, are a Troll.
Thank you.
Is there a good Windows open source PVR out there?
All other rights can be derived from freedom of speech.
As above. My modded xbox allows me to watch any one of my vast collection of dubious movies, all with way better results than my media pc has managed yet. And also featuring native 5.1 Dolby Digital and progressive scan output for the DVD player - not to mention the buttload of emulators and games available for it.
Hmmm, link seems to be screwed: http://www.signum-data.de/english/index_eng.htm
How did you do it?
What software do you use? What tv/dvb/tv-out hardware do you use?
How ist the automatic recording working?
Can you give me the other tech specs of the systems?
This is exacltly what i am looking for!
o.
Life is a shit, when you look at it, life is a joke, it's true!
Not to try to place ads (since i don't make any money off of the site) but I've started up a small community forum for owners and interested in home theater pcs. It's still in the works but we're looking for people interested in the system to stop in and share their experiences and ask questions.
The url is http://www.chronicles.org/htpc for anyone interested. We're trying to put a lot of content on the site (including links to hardware and software to help make an HTPC, software projects for HTPC desktops, and reviews on hardware (forthcoming once we get a larger user base)) this is a pet project and is for hobbyists mainly, there's no revenue coming off this site at all so feel free to stop in if you're interested.
what we need is a *legal* way to play dvds under linux.
until then we are limited to a tivo like functionality.
also software-based pvr's will never be cost effective. right now you can encode tv shows on cheap via epia boards, however in couple of years everyone will have HDTV and as of yet, pci bus doesnt have enough bandwidth to handle it. (and when that technology will be available, it will be way over $500 i'm willing to spend on a box like that)
I'd love to use Linux as my Home theater pc. ALthough linux is missing a few things to do so. One of which will never be rectified is support for peripheral devices such as capture cards. Even if the device is supported you never get all of the features you would get on a windows machine. Secondly from what I've heard linux has no way of outputting analog Dolby Digital 5.1, or maybe it was any surround sound output other than ac3, i forget which. This is VERy important! Also there is no sound card to my knowledge for linux that supports dvd-a, or even a player. Now I know there isn't one for windows yet either, but there will be. I doubt linux will ever have one unless it's illegal hacked app. The best video processing card on the market the Holo3d, which uses faroudja chip, is only available for windows. I may be wrong on these points but that's why I'm an anonymous coward :) check out www.avsforum.com they have a htpc linux forum, just for all this. Unfortunately right now there is no better platform than windows. To those that say, why would you want a clunky pc hooked up to a tv, I say only this. Which device will be easier to upgrade in the future. A pc that you can put in a new rom drive or card if technology changes or a set top box that gets obsoleted in 2 yrs. Pc's are great for h ome theater use, and with technology changing as quickly as it is now, set top boxes are the thing of the past in my opinion. Give me a platform that's stable, and upgradeable. Someone give me HTPC linux!
To make this work, you also need the Universal content publishing appliance so I can post my text/pictures/animations/sound/video and some kind of community mechanism for ranking and filtering it all.
Like photo.net or mp3.com all rolled into one.
Oh, you also need a fast two way pipe.
...
..the TIVO is a Linux box
freevo.sourceforge.net
this has the sorts of things...but it does
need more time and workers on the cause.
as for 'computers'
(PowerPC based) that is just a custom board
with custom case. if you want a 'homemade'
version...eg like freevo, then things have
to either be messier (unless you pay for more
expensive cool,neat,small boxes and motherboards,
or not as good (eg software etc)...unless
you DO prefer the commercial route
So many posters claim all you need is a used PC and a tv-out card. Either you've glossed over the video-in requirement, or you are not aware that real-time divx encoding takes quite a lot of CPU. Even mpeg2 is still difficult. Anything less compressed, and you will need a prohibitively large disk to be able to hold enough. There are logical reasons for MS to require a hardware MPEG-2 encoder for XP Media Center, as it is more than just a matter of setting a high priority to the encoding process.
for all the ones who asked for an iso solution : movix
#include "coucou.h"
New sizing metric:
Barbie Ovens!
I think it could replace the "U" for rack-mounting..."My new Dell server is 3 BOs. Do we have the space?"
It's true that I was being cynical, but I don't think I'm that far off the mark. It just doesn't make sense to me that the same person who uses MAME (to probably play pirate ROMs -- illegal) and records shows off TV (legal) also refuses to download pirate MP3s or CSS/Macrovision/Region Coded DVDs.
I'll be the first to claim that MP3s have legitimate legal uses (I have hundreds that I've made myself and granted people to distribute). MAME and DVDs less so, but they do. P2P apps, sure. However, most people do NOT use these technologies legally. (I think that's good for the world, actually, because it reminds people that sharing isn't the same as stealing.)
The basis of my question is: Why care about "free" or "open" software to play closed/proprietary/illegal media? What's the point?
(Someone posted a good response having to do with the ability to modify the software. That's true. In this case I get the feeling that the poster of the question was only interested in having an "open" system because that was cool, like linux is cool, not because there's some actual philosophical or practical reason for it.)
On an OT note, why do my posts seem to be going out at score:1 rather than score:2 by default? This Slashcode upgrade sucked. Gimme back the old Slashcode.
Excellent!
But the postings come out Bogus!
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Bogus!
Bogosity!
Bogosification!
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Ouch... that really puts the "Open" in "Open Entertainment Center".
It will be tender, juicy and fall apart.
Reminds me of Windows ME
So CmdrTaco bounced my bug posting on sourceforge as a duplicate - the question is whether it's also fixed...
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Yes, I can build one for about &500, with additional lighting mods. The only thing that I am struggling with is the onboard IRDA, you get a FIR(fast ir), and standard ir(confused as to whether these are supported by LIRC). They are also heavily priced!