Slashdot Mirror

Google doesn't own the Internet Archive, their competitor Alexa does. Anyone (including you or I) can go look at past versions of pages using it. Pretending to be Google (providing an interface to their search engine, using a similar look and name), and asking people if they have credit cards sounds pretty suspicious to me.

Now, this doesn't necessarily obviate his concerns, but Brandt is a veteran conspiracy-watcher whose obsessions include mind-control projects and secret cults amongst the elite -- and this tendency to indulge in, as Wm. Gibson would put it, "apophenia" is certainly likely to color his view of Google.

To my eye, his concerns display a kind of parochial paranoia: obviously, we're all aware of the uses and limitations of cookies, none of us want to see the cache (or the Wayback Machine) go away, and his comments about Google's "monopoly" and the "[y]oung, stupid script kiddies" who "think Google is 'way kool'" are just inexplicable.

Telling, I think, is his concern about Google having a former NSA developer on staff -- I've worked with a fairly large number of former spooks from the NSA, CIA and civilian contractors, and to suggest that having the NSA on your resume makes you some kind of Coder in Black is absurd. But, of course, YMMV.

If you spent any time using the Wayback Machine you would see that gewgle.com was just a front-end for the real google.com. It was just a parody.

wayback to gewgle.com

Here's the most recent Wayback Machine cache of the story page. 2 years old, but better than nothing since the main page is slashdotted.

Maybe you're thinking of CritLink/CritSuite?

I can't get to the site at the moment, but you could try an old cache at archive.org.

i like the wayback machines cache better. i get pictures and fixed up links and all that stuff.

link

Yes it is already here.
click here if you want to see how slashdot.org has changed over the years.

There's a live backup of the Internet Archive at the Library of Alexandria in Egypt. Thus, no single government can censor the archive. More duplicates may be established in other countries.

Perhaps unfortunately, it's easy to remove material from the archive. Just put a "robots.txt" file on your site, and not only will it not be captured again, the archive will immediately refuse to display copies of the blocked site. This seems to be enough to keep the militant copyright holders happy.

Most text is saved, but not all pictures, and very little video. This is good enough for most historical purposes.

I this it is the responsibility of the creators of the content to deem whether it is important enough to keep on the Internet or not, or else to archive it. If somebody else tries to archive the Net then I believe we'll end up with 95% fluff, and 5% good stuff. The Internet is now so large at a single point in time, it's sometimes hard to find something current let alone wading through years of archives. I say to forget spending the money on archiving the Internet which is already being done to some degree by TheWayBack machine, and leave the responsiblity in the hands of the content creators/publishers. The good content will continue to survive.

http://www.archive.org

The irony is that, while digital files could be preserved indefinitely in absolute perfection, many are being completely lost in much less time than it would take a book to turn to dust.

Kudos to the folks at the Library of Congress, and other projects like the Wayback Machine who are working to preserve a surprisingly ephemeral media.

Well they could post all the numerous guides they missed. I had a bunch on my website, which I'll cut and paste here for Geek Dating Guide pleasure: Why Geeks Make the Best Boyfriends

"I just Want To Be Friends"

There is also the Geek Dating Flowchart

Why Girls Actually Want Geeks
Why it usually doesn't happen
and the pitfalls of dating a nerd

15+ reasons why geek guys are "not so bad at all".

How To Lose A Geek in 10 Seconds.

And cause Slashdot loves Futurama, quotes here for your reading pleasure (both said by Fry):
"What? Valentine's Day is coming up?!?! Crap! I forgot to get a girlfriend again"
"Well she was in love with the part of me that's a slob. I was in love with her with the part of me that's desperate."

And finally, have a date for Valentine's but don't know what to do? Never fear, let old 50's educational movies guide you. From what do to on a date, Do's and Don't of Dating and Beginning Dating to Going Steady and How do you Know It's Love, cheesy acting and horrible plots can show you the way.

Well they could post all the numerous guides they missed. I had a bunch on my website, which I'll cut and paste here for Geek Dating Guide pleasure: Why Geeks Make the Best Boyfriends

"I just Want To Be Friends"

There is also the Geek Dating Flowchart

Why Girls Actually Want Geeks
Why it usually doesn't happen
and the pitfalls of dating a nerd

15+ reasons why geek guys are "not so bad at all".

How To Lose A Geek in 10 Seconds.

And cause Slashdot loves Futurama, quotes here for your reading pleasure (both said by Fry):
"What? Valentine's Day is coming up?!?! Crap! I forgot to get a girlfriend again"
"Well she was in love with the part of me that's a slob. I was in love with her with the part of me that's desperate."

And finally, have a date for Valentine's but don't know what to do? Never fear, let old 50's educational movies guide you. From what do to on a date, Do's and Don't of Dating and Beginning Dating to Going Steady and How do you Know It's Love, cheesy acting and horrible plots can show you the way.

Well they could post all the numerous guides they missed. I had a bunch on my website, which I'll cut and paste here for Geek Dating Guide pleasure: Why Geeks Make the Best Boyfriends

"I just Want To Be Friends"

There is also the Geek Dating Flowchart

Why Girls Actually Want Geeks
Why it usually doesn't happen
and the pitfalls of dating a nerd

15+ reasons why geek guys are "not so bad at all".

How To Lose A Geek in 10 Seconds.

And cause Slashdot loves Futurama, quotes here for your reading pleasure (both said by Fry):
"What? Valentine's Day is coming up?!?! Crap! I forgot to get a girlfriend again"
"Well she was in love with the part of me that's a slob. I was in love with her with the part of me that's desperate."

And finally, have a date for Valentine's but don't know what to do? Never fear, let old 50's educational movies guide you. From what do to on a date, Do's and Don't of Dating and Beginning Dating to Going Steady and How do you Know It's Love, cheesy acting and horrible plots can show you the way.

Well they could post all the numerous guides they missed. I had a bunch on my website, which I'll cut and paste here for Geek Dating Guide pleasure: Why Geeks Make the Best Boyfriends

"I just Want To Be Friends"

There is also the Geek Dating Flowchart

Why Girls Actually Want Geeks
Why it usually doesn't happen
and the pitfalls of dating a nerd

15+ reasons why geek guys are "not so bad at all".

How To Lose A Geek in 10 Seconds.

And cause Slashdot loves Futurama, quotes here for your reading pleasure (both said by Fry):
"What? Valentine's Day is coming up?!?! Crap! I forgot to get a girlfriend again"
"Well she was in love with the part of me that's a slob. I was in love with her with the part of me that's desperate."

And finally, have a date for Valentine's but don't know what to do? Never fear, let old 50's educational movies guide you. From what do to on a date, Do's and Don't of Dating and Beginning Dating to Going Steady and How do you Know It's Love, cheesy acting and horrible plots can show you the way.

Well they could post all the numerous guides they missed. I had a bunch on my website, which I'll cut and paste here for Geek Dating Guide pleasure: Why Geeks Make the Best Boyfriends

"I just Want To Be Friends"

There is also the Geek Dating Flowchart

Why Girls Actually Want Geeks
Why it usually doesn't happen
and the pitfalls of dating a nerd

15+ reasons why geek guys are "not so bad at all".

How To Lose A Geek in 10 Seconds.

And cause Slashdot loves Futurama, quotes here for your reading pleasure (both said by Fry):
"What? Valentine's Day is coming up?!?! Crap! I forgot to get a girlfriend again"
"Well she was in love with the part of me that's a slob. I was in love with her with the part of me that's desperate."

And finally, have a date for Valentine's but don't know what to do? Never fear, let old 50's educational movies guide you. From what do to on a date, Do's and Don't of Dating and Beginning Dating to Going Steady and How do you Know It's Love, cheesy acting and horrible plots can show you the way.

Well they could post all the numerous guides they missed. I had a bunch on my website, which I'll cut and paste here for Geek Dating Guide pleasure: Why Geeks Make the Best Boyfriends

"I just Want To Be Friends"

There is also the Geek Dating Flowchart

Why Girls Actually Want Geeks
Why it usually doesn't happen
and the pitfalls of dating a nerd

15+ reasons why geek guys are "not so bad at all".

How To Lose A Geek in 10 Seconds.

And cause Slashdot loves Futurama, quotes here for your reading pleasure (both said by Fry):
"What? Valentine's Day is coming up?!?! Crap! I forgot to get a girlfriend again"
"Well she was in love with the part of me that's a slob. I was in love with her with the part of me that's desperate."

And finally, have a date for Valentine's but don't know what to do? Never fear, let old 50's educational movies guide you. From what do to on a date, Do's and Don't of Dating and Beginning Dating to Going Steady and How do you Know It's Love, cheesy acting and horrible plots can show you the way.

Some links are broken, some are just too darn slow. Hope these help:
(thanks, archive.org and google!)

A Girl's Guide to Geek Guys
Bart's Dating Guide for Geeks

Curiously, all of their challenges are over before ever appearing on their website...

Unfortunately, the "picking up your marbles" article uses nonstandard terminology and thus may end up confusing many readers. For example, it seems to equate "Free Software" with copylefting licenses (like the GPL), and "Open Source" with non-copylefting licenses (like the BSD license). That's extremely confusing; the standard definitions for both Open Source and Free Software include both the GPL and the BSD licenses. Also, "Shared Source" is still proprietary; trying to claim it isn't just confuses things. Proprietary software comes in at least two varieties: secret source, and "shared source". Licenses are confusing enough without using nonstandard, inconsistent terminology. Hopefully, the article will get updated - it makes interesting points, and the shifting terminology is unfortunate. For the moment, I would recommend Bero's article instead if you're looking for an article opposing "shared source".

It's also worth noting that some of the bands that allow live taping have been recorded and traded in CD-quality by members of etree, and a lot of those recordings are being put up in lossless-compression formats on the audio section of Brewster Kahle's Archive.org site. Most of the ones there now are ones most folks wouldn't have heard of...but they have 28 Guster concerts, one of which I'm listening to right now. (They did have some Dave Matthews Band, but had to take it down after DMB changed their concert-trading policy.)

What I'm wondering is how Clearchannel's legit-bootlegs CD program will affect the bands like Guster that allow audience taping and trading of their shows.

Me: Computer! Activate nostalgia mode!
Computer: Yes Master
Computer: Going back 5 years, Sir Slashdot in 1998
Me: Well done. What is this? Star Wars as a religion back in 1998? But....but I have only been on Slashdot since 2000 and have already seen that article shown several times!
Computer: It's called "Temporal Amnesic Disorder", Sir
Me:Interesting...

However, I would say that I'd pay for concerts of a lot of bands. People like BNL, Dave Matthews, etc. that throw some of the best live shows on earth would be worth it.

many people are not aware bands like Dave Matthews Band have an open taping policy. while not soundboard, many audience recordings are really close. many tapers spend $5000-6000 dollars in equipment and acheive pristine copies of the concerts. access to the shows has become even easier thanks to an amalgamation between archive.org and etree.org, we now have the etree.org audio archive .

these files are distributed in the lossless SHN format so each copy will sound the same no matter which generation of the disc you have.

Dave Matthews Band no longer allows distribution through etree.org audio archive , but using trades and B&Ps you could easily find a high quality DMB show for free.

Check out the etree newbie FAQ and the etree trader database for more info.

Mike

However, I would say that I'd pay for concerts of a lot of bands. People like BNL, Dave Matthews, etc. that throw some of the best live shows on earth would be worth it.

many people are not aware bands like Dave Matthews Band have an open taping policy. while not soundboard, many audience recordings are really close. many tapers spend $5000-6000 dollars in equipment and acheive pristine copies of the concerts. access to the shows has become even easier thanks to an amalgamation between archive.org and etree.org, we now have the etree.org audio archive .

these files are distributed in the lossless SHN format so each copy will sound the same no matter which generation of the disc you have.

Dave Matthews Band no longer allows distribution through etree.org audio archive , but using trades and B&Ps you could easily find a high quality DMB show for free.

Check out the etree newbie FAQ and the etree trader database for more info.

Mike

However, I would say that I'd pay for concerts of a lot of bands. People like BNL, Dave Matthews, etc. that throw some of the best live shows on earth would be worth it.

many people are not aware bands like Dave Matthews Band have an open taping policy. while not soundboard, many audience recordings are really close. many tapers spend $5000-6000 dollars in equipment and acheive pristine copies of the concerts. access to the shows has become even easier thanks to an amalgamation between archive.org and etree.org, we now have the etree.org audio archive .

these files are distributed in the lossless SHN format so each copy will sound the same no matter which generation of the disc you have.

Dave Matthews Band no longer allows distribution through etree.org audio archive , but using trades and B&Ps you could easily find a high quality DMB show for free.

Check out the etree newbie FAQ and the etree trader database for more info.

Mike

Why pay money in the first place?

Many artists already let you record and share their shows. See archive.org. Not instantaneous, but not supporting Clear Channel either...

This has been done many times over in the jamband scene over the past few years. Bands which allow taping at their concerts are sseeing an increasing amount of people who tape directly to their laptops with a mic and audio-in enabled soundcard. If you're friendly with the tapers, they'll burn a copy for you right after the show. Once again, the music industry is behind the times. I've been watching this for several years now. The industry will probably do the same thing except attach a cdrw jukebox to it for mass production. --Dave

There's more. Anyone who keeps up with IRC news knows that other networks such as IRC-Chat were very recently contacted by the MPAA, who asked them to take an active role in stopping file distribution. At this very same time, DALnet announces a nearly identical policy out of the blue, while claiming that it did so purely voluntarily.

If nothing else, that seems a little odd.

He says "I wish you could still see..."

Well, you can. Try this.

Unfortunately, the graphics are missing.

Wicked Ascii Art

I sat browsing the Prelinger archive last night, and download three or four movies.

From "The Terrible Truth" (1951): "Some say the reds are promoting dope traffic in the United States to undermine national moral. They did it in China a few years back. It's certainly true that the increased use of narcotics plays right into their hands."

Oookay... Sounded a little paranoid, but I didn't think much more about it. After all, I've heard of McCartyism, and know it was blown out of proportions. The next movie was about pornographic litterature (Yeah, yeah, I know I downloaded some of the more sensational ones, but I wanted entertainment) :

"Perversion for Profit" (ca. 1964-1965): "This moral decay weakens our resistance to the onslaught of the Communist masters of deceit."

Uh. Two movies in a row, selected at (pretty much) random, made over 10 years apart. Both blaming communism for plotting to destroy the nation. If I've downloaded more movies from the archive, I'm sure I would have found more of the same.

Anyway... This made me think of Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine", and what the movie says about fear being used to make the public act in certain ways or accept whatever are presented to them. Sample quote: "The media, the corporations, the politicans, have all done such a good job of scaring the American public, it has come to the point that they don't have to give any reason at all."
If this is how it works, can single words have the power to trigger these effects? Don't forget how hard it is to say no to a law that has "patriotic" as part of it's name (Because saying "no" would mean UNpatriotic, and you KNOW you either are with us or against us).
If shouting "communist" at things and people you wanted to get rid of worked in the 50's and 60's, certainly linking the word "terrorist" to illegal copying should have some effect on public opinion and lawmakers.

Seems to me like "terrorist" is the fnord of our time.

I sat browsing the Prelinger archive last night, and download three or four movies.

From "The Terrible Truth" (1951): "Some say the reds are promoting dope traffic in the United States to undermine national moral. They did it in China a few years back. It's certainly true that the increased use of narcotics plays right into their hands."

Oookay... Sounded a little paranoid, but I didn't think much more about it. After all, I've heard of McCartyism, and know it was blown out of proportions. The next movie was about pornographic litterature (Yeah, yeah, I know I downloaded some of the more sensational ones, but I wanted entertainment) :

"Perversion for Profit" (ca. 1964-1965): "This moral decay weakens our resistance to the onslaught of the Communist masters of deceit."

Uh. Two movies in a row, selected at (pretty much) random, made over 10 years apart. Both blaming communism for plotting to destroy the nation. If I've downloaded more movies from the archive, I'm sure I would have found more of the same.

Anyway... This made me think of Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine", and what the movie says about fear being used to make the public act in certain ways or accept whatever are presented to them. Sample quote: "The media, the corporations, the politicans, have all done such a good job of scaring the American public, it has come to the point that they don't have to give any reason at all."
If this is how it works, can single words have the power to trigger these effects? Don't forget how hard it is to say no to a law that has "patriotic" as part of it's name (Because saying "no" would mean UNpatriotic, and you KNOW you either are with us or against us).
If shouting "communist" at things and people you wanted to get rid of worked in the 50's and 60's, certainly linking the word "terrorist" to illegal copying should have some effect on public opinion and lawmakers.

Seems to me like "terrorist" is the fnord of our time.

I sat browsing the Prelinger archive last night, and download three or four movies.

From "The Terrible Truth" (1951): "Some say the reds are promoting dope traffic in the United States to undermine national moral. They did it in China a few years back. It's certainly true that the increased use of narcotics plays right into their hands."

Oookay... Sounded a little paranoid, but I didn't think much more about it. After all, I've heard of McCartyism, and know it was blown out of proportions. The next movie was about pornographic litterature (Yeah, yeah, I know I downloaded some of the more sensational ones, but I wanted entertainment) :

"Perversion for Profit" (ca. 1964-1965): "This moral decay weakens our resistance to the onslaught of the Communist masters of deceit."

Uh. Two movies in a row, selected at (pretty much) random, made over 10 years apart. Both blaming communism for plotting to destroy the nation. If I've downloaded more movies from the archive, I'm sure I would have found more of the same.

Anyway... This made me think of Michael Moore's "Bowling for Columbine", and what the movie says about fear being used to make the public act in certain ways or accept whatever are presented to them. Sample quote: "The media, the corporations, the politicans, have all done such a good job of scaring the American public, it has come to the point that they don't have to give any reason at all."
If this is how it works, can single words have the power to trigger these effects? Don't forget how hard it is to say no to a law that has "patriotic" as part of it's name (Because saying "no" would mean UNpatriotic, and you KNOW you either are with us or against us).
If shouting "communist" at things and people you wanted to get rid of worked in the 50's and 60's, certainly linking the word "terrorist" to illegal copying should have some effect on public opinion and lawmakers.

Seems to me like "terrorist" is the fnord of our time.

Versioning in the VMS file system was a great feature and one that I would have liked to brought forward into NT. However, it was so hard to sell a new file system at all and multiple versions of the same file, although managable by programmers, might not have been so manageable by PC Users.

The Movie Archive of www.archive.org contains all sorts of fascinating, cool, and as far as I know redistributable movie files.

A tiny sample of a few that I've grabbed:
* "Duck and Cover" - the classic scary bomb-readiness film for schoolchildren
* "I like Ike" - Eisenhower political ad, animated
* "Are You Popular?" - bizarre and weird example of 1950's conformity and culture

The collection is just huge, and you can no doubt find some crazy cool stuff. Mirror the whole thing, and you'll probably start approaching 150GB very quickly, at the raw speed of your download pipe.

Get some of those 50's movies from archive.org's Prelinger Collection
The "Are you popular" MPEG is 260 MB+

From their terms of use:"Access to the Archive's Collections is provided at no cost to you and is granted for scholarship and research purposesonly."

Get some of those 50's movies from archive.org's Prelinger Collection
The "Are you popular" MPEG is 260 MB+

From their terms of use:"Access to the Archive's Collections is provided at no cost to you and is granted for scholarship and research purposesonly."

Get some of those 50's movies from archive.org's Prelinger Collection
The "Are you popular" MPEG is 260 MB+

From their terms of use:"Access to the Archive's Collections is provided at no cost to you and is granted for scholarship and research purposesonly."

Get some of those 50's movies from archive.org's Prelinger Collection
The "Are you popular" MPEG is 260 MB+

From their terms of use:"Access to the Archive's Collections is provided at no cost to you and is granted for scholarship and research purposesonly."

Etree has collaborated with archive.org to provide people with a large repository of completely legal and high quality live recordings. Check it out, you may find out about some good new bands. Stay away from Furthurnet. It's a decent idea, but its filled with bad files, written in Java, and it's slow.

Etree has collaborated with archive.org to provide people with a large repository of completely legal and high quality live recordings. Check it out, you may find out about some good new bands. Stay away from Furthurnet. It's a decent idea, but its filled with bad files, written in Java, and it's slow.

I recommened the old "educational" movies, but there's a lot more stuff to be found at archive.org.

I recommened the old "educational" movies, but there's a lot more stuff to be found at archive.org.

I put up all my pictures on the net and let google, the wayback search engines, and everyone else in the world archive it all for me.

Been a pretty good backup plan so far.

People should check out: http://wiki.etree.org, an online network for people interested in live jam band music. They are trying to move towards using all FLAC, or at least mostly. Also check out the etree audio archive, they have some stuff in FLAC, although most of it's in SHN.

As nice as Macromedia seems here, the US gov't may intervene and stop this for national security concerns.

(ha ha only serious)

P.G. is a worldwide project, not only north american. I'm living in France at the moment, and have a pile of old books that contain ancient french, latin and ancien greek. Transcribing the caracters to ASCII would be absurd. It would be a huge loss of information.

Secondly, you seem to say that basic formatting, like those described in the document guidelines are good enough.That brings up two problems :
Because this is digital media, you do not want to use formatting, you want to use semantic markup : the reader could be blind, of deaf, of using a PDA etc. Formatting is static, semantic markup can be reinterpreted again and again to suit best the reader. This is where the W3C is going.
The idea is not to make some alphabet soup that can be used to create formatted text. The idea is to provide books that are directly usable and readable. The document guidelines only specify one level of chapter heading for exemple. Why ?

I was getting all excited about contributing to this project, but the current guidelines are just too weak. Using unicode encoded xml documents with a specific DTD (or Schema) seems to be a good solution, but I'm no specialist.

By the way, Gutenberg still doesn't show a text of Mandragola.

Contact somebody at Distributed Proofreaders. I'm sure they would be happy to help. This sounds like a great work that I'm sure people would love!

• Projecting back to 1971, Project Gutenberg has tracked Moore's Law quite precisely. January 2003 will be our most productive month ever, and we are looking forward to continuing to double our rate of new eBooks every 18 months.
• Project Gutenberg has received some big donations, and we're working on grants and other funding. However, when you do the math you realize that there's essentially no hope for paying for content -- it takes thousands and thousands of people. The hope for "someone" to do it is naive -- the only answer is to figure out ways for "everyone" to work on digitization.
• While the author makes 6200 books sound like small potatoes, in fact it represents about 1/3 of all eBooks listed in places like the Internet Public Library. Not bad, and it certainly explains why some random book the author wants isn't part of the collection -- there just aren't that many projects working on digitizing literature.
• Where did the author figure on $750million, and for what? Over 30 million printed books were registered for copyright in the last 100 years (this doesn't count magazines, recordings, etc.). The notion that $25/book could pay for digitization is not unreasonable. But where do you get the books, and what about copyright? If there's a plan, I'd like to hear it.
• One more point, to keep this short: We have just under 7000 eBooks (up about 800 from whenever the author did his research!). We have over 1000 active volunteers. The books are in over 20 languages, dozens of formats and, if printed, would fill a small library. We're on track to reach #10,000 in 2003. Via Distributed Proofreading, as mentioned here and in a previous /. story, we can and frequently do complete digitizing a 300 page book in just a few hours. Mr. DeLong, I don't feel apologetic about these numbers at all.

That's all for now. Thanks to all the supportive comments in this thread, and to all the constructive criticism. And remember, a page a day is all it takes to contribute!

Greg Newby, Director and CEO
The Project Gutenberg Literary Archive Foundation
www.gutenberg.net

I just found this site a few days ago. Essentially, volunteers can proofread one page at a time, so that huge time commitments of doing an entire book yourself are not required. Worth checking out.

http://texts01.archive.org/dp/