Slashdot Mirror
Instant Concert CDs?
NickRipley writes "Clear Channel (owner of every radio station in America) is purporting to offer a new service, whereby concertgoers can receive an official recording of the concert they just attended, within moments after the final note. How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating? Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast? Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?"
I don't see why the RIAA would care. They may consider the act of individual listeners recording and distributing concert recordings piracy, but Clear Channel will likely charge $20-30 per recording, making a decent incoming in the process, "legitimizing" the act and thus rendering "piracy" in this case a non-issue.
Assuming these will be highest-possible-quality recordings (who knows) this of course would be a boon for so-called "bootleggers" who would no longer need to participate in the act of recording these shows but instead simply need to buy one copy and run off as many dupes as they need.
is not a radio station company... They are an advertising company that happens to own every radio station in America. It's a shame.
Karma: The shiznight, mostly because I am the Drizzle.
It's only thanks to technology that there is a "recording" industry in the first place. Before performances could be recorded, musicians had to make money through performing their works. Technology, and the ability to record music, created the recording industry.
Is it too surprising, then, if technology might take it away again ?
In my personal opinion, music is about many things.......creation, art, emotion, enjoyment, life. If there is one word which doesn't belong next to the word "music", it's the word "business".
dragon!
When done by a small group of people it's considered pirating, bootlegging, and illegal.
When done by a large group of well financed people, its called "good business".
Another copyrighted,redtaped step for the good old "United States of America INC."
Simple. By legislation.
Not that clearchannel are saints...
Seeing as it's Clear Channel (whose concert promotions arm is huge and brings in 100's of millions of $), they may be able to force artists/their labels to agree to sales of these CD's. No live CD rights, no concert. I don't know how diversified the concert promotion market is but I bet CC is at least one of a very small # of 500-pound gorillas in the industry.
This actually would be cool for smaller bands who put on smaller shows. It'd be nice to have a recording which contains all the stuff that happened while you were there - the mic mix ups, the silly stage patter where the lead singer says how he got lost in your town during college etc. But I can easily see the band getting screwed on this and that's not what I want either!
Freedom: "I won't!"
Clear Channel and the RIAA are two sides of the same anti-music and anti-consumer mega-corporate coin. This is obviously some sort of thinly veiled and pathetic attempt for CC to get buddy-buddy with consumers that hate the RIAA but it's all the same lie. They want to and do control every aspect of most major city radio stations, homogenizing every single one until all the CEO himself has to do is push a button sending out all of the computer-generated crap programming to every radio station in the US. I will not listen to Clear Channel radio stations and I will not buy these "on-demand" live CDs because the less money that makes it into Clear Channel's pockets the better.
blah de blah!
I worked on a production requiring this kind of speed. However, we were using audio cassettes, and the material involved was a spoken presentation that we had permission to duplicate and sell.
This is how it worked: we created a master tape on the fly during the program. At the conclusion of the program, the master was carried down to a workroom with tape duplication machines. We could have 16 tapes created within 4 minutes of the end of the presentation--with more coming. If it was this simple with analog equipment, I'd imagine a digital method for distributing these recordings would be a piece of cake.
Will the quality be less than that of a minidisc that someone smuggled into the show inside their jacket and tried to keep the microphone out while dancing and such? Or will the quality be less than a studio-mixed album that is engineered over months by experts? I think the answers to both these questions are clear.
...where everything is lip synched anyway.
Well, most of the time anyway.
I can only imagine that the RIAA would squash this one, since traditionally, there would be all sorts of copyright issues here. Royalties go to the Label, Producer, Studio, Artists, RIAA, and who knows who else. Beyond that, a lot of the great artists play cover songs and unreleased material, which they'd have to cover royalties or permissions for that.
However, I would say that I'd pay for concerts of a lot of bands. People like BNL, Dave Matthews, etc. that throw some of the best live shows on earth would be worth it. Of course, since this article implies that you have to attend the concert, and the RIAA has little sway there, this is something that benefits the artists (and Clear Channel).
This would be great, if you can afford a ticket or get a chance. But what about the people in South Dakota that never see anyone, or people overseas who can't make a concert?
If this is something that the artists support, it would be easy to have the recordings ready. Fast burners and digital recording equipment tied into the sound system would make it easy to get these discs out minutes after a concert ends. What would be sad is that most likely, encores and bonus sets would be lost if they cut the recording early.
However, since this looks like something they're going to start in club shows, I'd imagine it's meant to boost new and smaller artists, which is great. I've seen enough small bands that never even crossed the radar of most radio, and it would have been great to hear their sets again.
I'm inclined to say "Great Idea!" but before I do so I'd like to know how much of this $15 would end up in the artists pockets?
If it's anything like Courtney Love's RIAA / Recording Artist math, I think it will just put more cash in the wrong pockets.
Seems like the Artists should get a higher percentage than their standard recording contract might allow, since this would be a major impulse buy on the part of many concert goers - especially considering the effect of various substances and inhibitions.
A message from our sponsor
not quite first
comments arent showing up anywhere.
this site fucking sucks. can't you guys figure something is wrong here?
What about selling these CDs to customers who did not attend the concert? If my favorite musician is coming nowhere near my town, can I buy one of these CDs? I own all the albums of my favorite groups, so there's just nothing left in the music world for me to buy. Offering these concert CDs for sale to anyone would entice a lot of people in my position to purchase some new music.
FP
That's really a good idea. Technically, I don't think it would be that hard (digitize the audio as it comes in, burn a single master at the end of the show and then let the CD replicators churn), and I have a feeling that Clear Channel is paying the RIAA their piece, too, so there shouldn't be any legal problems.
Of course, after the $5 beers and $35 t-shirts, most concert-goers are dead broke by the end of the show...
Experiments are rife in the music business these days -- and Boston will be a test market for one of the most novel of them. Clear Channel Concerts, the nation's largest concert promoter, has ambitious plans to record live CDs of its shows and sell them to patrons within five minutes after those shows end. Clear Channel is targeting Boston as the first site for the new plan, according to sources within the organization.
Multiple CD burners would be brought in, and the live CDs would probably sell for around $15 in the same way that T-shirts and other merchandise can be purchased after concerts. No one knows what the demand would be, but the project is expected to begin at club shows within a couple of months, then be refined and work its way up to the amphitheater level, though that may not happen until next year, sources say.
Clear Channel spokeswoman Pam Fallon would not confirm or deny word of the CD burning and sales plan. ''All I can say is that we're working on a series of initiatives in the next couple of months,'' she said.
Clear Channel vice president Steve Simon, who works at Cambridge's Clear Channel office and has helped manage the platinum-selling band Boston, is said to be heading the project.
I think this is a good example of new technology being put to good use. I am sure the artist will get their cut, the maker will get his cut and the buyer will get something they really want.
It is time the *IAA stopped fighting technology and started embracing it.
I love stacking my barbecues in the shed at the end of summer - you can't beat a bit of grill on grill action.
I'm sure they are going to charge an outrageous price, plus I don't think the shows I go to are sponsered/hosted/etc by clear channel. Overall, It sounds like a pretty good idea. I hope the quality is good, and the cover art or whatever isn't plastered with "made possible by clear channel" garbage.
Clear Channel (owner of every radio station in America)
LMAO!
This sounds like a great money making scheme... making the RIAA likely to fight it tooth and nail. Just like they did with radio, and tapes, and cds, and now digital music on the 'net. Yup. And in 10 years they'll wonder how they every got by without it.
This Sig Kills Fascists
This has been done many times over in the jamband scene over the past few years. Bands which allow taping at their concerts are sseeing an increasing amount of people who tape directly to their laptops with a mic and audio-in enabled soundcard. If you're friendly with the tapers, they'll burn a copy for you right after the show. Once again, the music industry is behind the times. I've been watching this for several years now. The industry will probably do the same thing except attach a cdrw jukebox to it for mass production. --Dave
as described in this article this is not unlike livephish nearly-instant Concert selling website.
http://www.somebaudy.com
the RIAA wants a monopoly on music, just like Microsoft wants to be the only ones with a desktop OS
damn both of them
daamamamamamammaan c'mon DMCA let me post fgdas sadsadfgasgd
Does Clear Channel own any rights to the concert performance? I hope for their sake that they do, since this would be the basis on which the RIAA would get pissed off. If CC is able to make this arrangement with the artists themselves, it could be a good thing.
On the other hand, I only trust Clear Channel as far as I can throw it. I guess in an official announcement, or once they start doing this, we'll see if the CDs also end up in stores next to studio albums.
Ravi
When the axe came to the forest, the trees said, "Look out - the handle was once one of us."
Let's not let users see comments!
I refuse to purchase and/or pirate this product until it is produced in the .ogg format
Piracy will be ok as long as th correct tribute is paid to the gods (RIAA)
wanted: one clever sig,apply within
Obviously, there will be no post-production editing or enhancing, so you're basically just buying a fancy bootleg, not a CD you'd buy from a store of a live performance. But it shouldn't suck too bad, and it'd sure beat holding up a mini-recorder in the crowd.
(probably a moot point, as I can't see the RIAA letting this happen - unless they're getting a healthy chunk out of the pie.)
The perfect product for the perfect culture. At the risk of sounding cynical, this will be ideal for the great mass of people who would not know good sound if it bit them in the ass. A great live album (CD, DVD, SACD, LP, cassette, whatever) takes a lot of time to mix properly. Most are made poorly now, the last live CDs that I bought that sounded good were made in the 1970s.
Generally, I suspect that the great mass of you all out there will love this sort of dreck. When I think of the horrid bootleg recordings that I have heard in my life that others thought were wonderful I can only shake my head in disgust. Enjoy the crap, more is on its way.
I am sure one would have to sign some sort of "Fair use" agreement, before purchasing the CD.
This is the instant selling of a live album. Recording a live concert was never piracy as long as you got permission (ignoring that the band may not have the proper rights to the songs, those might belong to the label or songwriter)
There are 4 boxes to use in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order. Starting now.
I wonder if they will use cdr or the 'music' cds ?
wanted: one clever sig,apply within
I wonder if these will be copyprotected CDs. It seems like they probably will not be. I wouldn't be surprised if certain bands won't allow this then.
The concept is great though: Leave the concert, pop the CD in your stereo, and immediately re-live the concert!
Imagine Kazaa full of good-quality recordings of every concert a band makes!
Someone stepping up and trying to use technology, not squash it! Personally, there are lots of shows I go to that I'd like a recording of and have started downloading shortens and burning them myself. I don't know if my price point is $15 or not, tho.
Of course, the shows where they're going to record they probably wouldn't allow tapers...
But, it's a step in the right direction.
... ClearChannel Communications, the owner of the monopoly on radio broadcasting and hated by me, is going to get in to a battle soon most likely (as I'm assuming the RIAA isn't going to let this one through) with the Recording Industry Association of America and is also hated by me. ... I see this as a win/win situation, doesn't anyone else? :)
--- Ãther SPOON!
Who cares what the RIAA and Clear Channel do to each other. We should set aside a part of the Arizona desert specifically for them to battle it out in a death match or something.
By the way, Slashdot is borken, and my posts aren't showing up.
And how exactly do they intend on making the copies of the concert that quickly other than to have about the equivilent of 28,460 cd burners on hand?
...and the availability of duplicators that can create multiple cd's in one run, you can have a cd in under half a minute each.
Why would anyone want a CD of a live concert with music and vocals that are really done live. Almost every "live album" you can buy in stores has been redone. Basically, you would get inferior quality music.
Plus lots of bands record with extra instruments that they don't use when they play live. Those are often added in when they make the "live album" for sale.
see etree.org, furthurnet.org for legal trading
Mark
since you have to pay $15 to buy the CD, everyone gets their cut and goes home happy. The recording process may "suffer" but I suspect the recorded music will be of a much higher quality than that recorded on the floor with a (choose your fav recording instrument)
plays cd. hears ambient noise and some talking.
"wow that man in the first row has a funny nose."
"shut up and tune the damn instrument"
"hey are those high sensitivity microphones up there?"
the equipment u need is of course the printers that can print printers, lots of cd ink cartridges, and recorders that record and print printing printers.
A multi-channel (I reckon between 16 and 24 channels for the average gig) hard-disk recording with a huge disk will be sufficient. If everything is set up correctly during the sound check, you should get a clean direct sound.
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
Probably, since there will be not much time check for recording errors (or technical failures) or extra audio processing (eg filtering). I wonder more who will make clearance for the recordings. Will really everything be on the disk? That would include the announcments between songs, and every single mishap that can occur during a show. Probably a frightening ascpect for the artists and the PR guys.
I'm not so sure the RIAA would really care. I suppose it would all depend on who gets the proceeds. Would Clear Channel be making the real profits off of it? I don't see it as piracy, or the RIAA caring, as long as they are getting a big piece of the pie.
now I don't need to bring in my dodgy mini-microphone voice recorder thingy :-)
Whenever I come out of a concert, usually on a high after seeing the band, I tend to blow all the cash I have on me on crap that the touts are flogging outside. Rip off merchansise, posters, that kind of thing. It would be great to be able to come out, get a much better souvenir and also contribute to the band. I imagne it would also hit the knock off merchants that hang outside pretty badly. RIAA and whoever, surely, should be able to see the sense in that. Then again, maybe not ;)
if they have cleared this in advance with the band / promoters / agents.
No problem whatsoever.
The mixdown and mastering won't be as good as it will be quick, but as a souvenir of the concert it'd be pretty cool!
People should not be afraid of their governments - Governments should be afraid of their people.
If these CD's are 'official' releases by the band, how does this qualify as pirating?
If the band's record companies want a slice, they better catch up with technology. Unless of course the bands have an exclusivity clause in their contract, in which case the bands probably (IANAL) can't offer this service to their public.
Visit http://ringbreak.dnd.utwente.nl/~mrjb/growingbettersoftware to download your free copy of the book
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
Excuse me? Bands have always sold CD's and merchendise at concerts without involvment from the record company - and many bands explicitly allow fan recordings of the concert. Is this just some shameless attempt to bring the word "RIAA" into the post to increase it's chances of getting posted?
The RIAA has domain over live music too? Is the musician does during the duration of the contract is property of the record company. So a recording of Dave Matthews on Letterman would be subject to the same restrictions, technically?
A co-worker tapes concerts regularly, with the band's permission. He shows up early, sets up his equipment, and tapes. This is no different that how it would be "professionally" accomplished.
There shouldn't be any loss of quality, and, with CDs easy to burn on the spot, it wouldn't be that hard to setup an assembly line.
As for the RIAA, where do they come in? It's the band's music and their right to promote in whatever fashion they wish.
How long will the discs last? I know that burned CDs don't seem to be as durable as proper "pressed" ones, especially cheap blanks.
Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast?
Can you imagine a Beowulf cluster of CD-R drives?
There's 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
What other technology do you need? Save the wave file in real time, and burn at 20x, a 1 hour CD takes three minutes, right?
alias uptime="echo '5:33pm up 22342352324 days, 6:28, 2124315623 users, load average: 2432.40, 12312.31, 123123.19'"
A lot of bands with a history of allowing taping (greatful dead, phish , DMB). Now phish is selling all 2003 concerts. They're in both mp3 and shn formats. The SHN format costs more (more bandwidth)..
...Why should I pay for when I can get an audience recording for free?
The have a good FAQ which answers the age old question
They Might Be Giants also gives away tracks on the internet. Better than the dial a song, which used to give away free songs over the phone.
Contrast this with the FooFighters annoying extra track download feature which doesn't work with Mac (Windows Media) and uses a special program which seems to check if the music cd is in the drive.. I like the band but that experience left a bad taste in my mouth.
The bottom line here is that creative bands can have alternative music distribution. This is good, unless your band is already signed, then the label can object.
Record the concert on the fly, and start making CDs with some sort of mass burner. Sounds like a good idea to me.
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
Why would they react badly? Most likely they're getting the typical 90% cut.
Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast?
Probably CD-R's.
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
Of course, and they'll have to work out the issues of some CD players not reading CD-R's as well. But I'm sure they'll be priced to correctly go along with other concert memoribilia.
Hear that? I think that would be the sound of Jerry Garcia turning over in his grave.
Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
None at all as they are going to have obtained clearance for this - hell, the artists will be getting a cut from the sales anyway, so eveyone wins.
People should not be afraid of their governments - Governments should be afraid of their people.
Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast? Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
Since you're recording a live event, I'd guess it doesn't take a whole lot of extra production or engineering to make a recording of the live event. Presumably these will be loops of whatever was fed to the PA with maybe a little audience miking to add ambiance.
I wonder how they plan on duplicating these so fast in the field and giving them some reasonable packaging (song lists? photos?). Even the most down-to-earth artist probably cares a little about his/her "brand image" and doesn't want to sell a CD with a photocopied insert and magic marker on the cd!
Sure the recording process will suffer, but it won't be any worse than any other concert bootleg. In fact, done right, a board tape can sound just fine. As a sound guy, I have recorded many of the shows I have mixed. Combine that with high-speed CD duplicators, and you can have CDs ready 10 minutes after the show is done. This is a great idea and I hope it works out for them.
-srw
like most here, i hate clear channel. and i rarely go to a show that Clear Channel supports, mostly because I dont listen to most popular bands. But this would be pretty badass and I can see it exploding.
Why should the recording quality suffer due to instantaneous recording? Storing the audio on a HD is quite lossless, right? And where between that and writing the track unto a CD would you lose even one bit, if set up correctly?
[confused]
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
As long as the Record Company (screw the artist!) gets a royalty for each CD/tape/whatever-medium-you-like sold, then this would be a case FOR the RIAA.
Live Recording bootlegs have indeed been seen as one of the oldest forms of piracy. However, most live recordings are never released. This is one of the reasons the RIAA isn't that strictly pursuing these bootleggers. Those that purchase these tapes/CD's are only getting what they can't get anywhere else.
NOW, with LEGIT live performance CD's available, the RIAA WILL have a strong reason to go after each and every illegal recording seller. (I'm getting tired of calling these people pirates...)
Not everything we like is anti-RIAA.
What I want to know is how much they had to pay for the rights, and how much of that cost is going to be passed on to the buyers. Will it cost as much as a normal album? less? MORE?
I have a little bit of experience in organizing concerts, and I don't think that kind of thing is possible -- at least, not with an optimal quality.
Recording music is not easy, and recording (good) live music is twice as difficult. You have to contend with all kind of stuff that does not happen in a studio recording (audience noise, larsen possibilities, interferences, etc).
Sometimes, if the band is good and the audience having a good time, a concert can be interrupted for several minutes by applause and shouts -- things that are usually not very interesting to hear on a CD... =)
Most of these things are usually corrected once the concert is over by qualified sound engineers -- a process which can take several weeks, even with high-caliber people using good hardware -- but live music straight to CD? I don't think so.
Of course, I may be wrong, and I'll be interested in any and all rebuttals... =)
The right to offend is far more important than the right not to be offended. (Rowan Atkinson)
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
Why would they react badly? Most likely they're getting the typical 90% cut.
Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast?
Probably CD-R's.
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
Of course, and they'll have to work out the issues of some CD players not reading CD-R's as well. But I'm sure they'll be priced to correctly go along with other concert memoribilia.
The big question here is: How much of a cut will the bands get from these live perfomance CD's? A buck, maybe two?
A fairly good number of bands allow recordings of concerts. Metallica, the band infamous for fighting Napster, allows for concerts to be recorded by fans.
Shoot Pixels, Not People!
All you need is a huge rack of cd-duplicator machines... You can buy boxes that you just drop the cd into the top, and a stack of 5, 10, even 20 drives immediately clone the disk. I've even seen some that clone the disk, then drop it into a disk printer. Since concerts generally have the same order, you predo the jewel case inserts, and pre silk-screen the blanks. Record off the mixing board onto a digital source, and immediately burn to a master cd, and drop that into the first duplicator. Then burn another, and drop that into the next duplicator. If you bring a truck to the concert with all that stuff pre-racked and powered, you could easily start churning out a couple of hundred cds every 15 minutes or so.
have the prelabelled CD's ready, and use one of those SCSI towers with 24 (quantity) 48x (speed) CD-R's. Or cheat, and use the previous city's show. Doesn't sound too difficult.
Really?
first post!
i think it's nice.. live shows always differ from the studio albums
When it is legitimate, what problem can the RIAA have. It may only be different from the way they view the world. They are an recording industry organisation, which is not to say that everyone that records is represented by this organisation. This is one aspect that they do not mention; there point is that they represent ALL of the recording industry and consequently speak for all the industry and artists.
As there aren't any expensive studio costs involved and the cost of sound engineers et al were covered by the entrance tickets, would this mean that the artist would get a bigger share of the money?
I would buy a cd of nearly every concert I've gone to, I think it's a great idea.
I would be willing to bet the quality won't be so great. I speak from some experience. First, some background: My DVD player refuses to play CD-Rs, which I think is understandable because most of them are ripped songs from KaZaA or something. My band at school just released a CD of music this month. They had it professionally made, although I am not quite sure of the process they used. My DVD player refuses to play it. If the "professionals" spent at least a month (the band was recording in December) making the CDs, and my DVD player sees it as a CD-R, how can these guys do any better in a few minutes?
Seriously... if a big company like ClearChannel is doing this, the RIAA has been consulted and is involved.
In all honsety, I think this is a great idea, assuming it can be done well. First, it will discourage artists that can't really sing/play instruments but rely on heavy post-production to make them sound good. Second, it's a good service to the fans. Third, if set up right, it could be a reasonable revenue stream for the artists -- and an incentive. Think about it... they're going to want to make every performance fantastic if they want the fans to buy the CD at the end of the concert.
Lex orandi, lex credendi.
Wow, this sounds like a really wonderful idea.
Think about it, a concert is one of the times when people are really in a money spending mood (think about how many $20 band t-shirts you have, not to mention $5 bottles of water).
People would love to be able to play the cd for their friends and go "I was there!" After a good concert I almost always go out and buy the band's new CD if I enjoyed the concert, if for no other reason than remembering the good times. I do admit that I might decide to buy the cd of the concert instead of a t-shirt, depending on how much the little angel on my shoulder yells at me for spending money (My angel is kinda bossy).
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
I can't imagine the RIAA won't get it's fingers into this pie. So as long as they're getting a percentage of the revenue they should be very happy. NOt to mention, who's going to stand there with a low quality tape recorder when they can get an official CD? I believe this would decrease the number of bootleg CDs. It would also get rid of some of the justifications for sharing mp3s ("Well I can't buy a CD of the concert in stores, so why shouldn't I download it?")
This is the most innovative idea I've heard regarding CDs in a long time.
post
is there some sort of problem with /. today?
Of course, what's particularly neat about this is that it's not a recording company but a radio station network that is doing this (AFAIK, ClearChannel doesn't own any recording companies): they are taking away business from the traditional recording companies. It's another way in which companies are nibbling away at the traditional markets of the recording industry.
its all about the money, clearchanne has enough money to be allowed to make money. what do you expect?
first post, hahahamuahaha
How can you be Nostalgic about something that happend a little while ago.
That being said Im all for it provided the quality dosent suffer and they dont try to charge $30 dollars a disc for "express mastering" or some other nonsense. my $.02
Insert sig here (slashdot) Insert cig here (Lewinsky)
I seemed to have gotten the first post! HAHAHAHA
http://www.livephish.com The band made SHN's and MP3's of their concerts available within 24 hours of their most recent shows. The downside (apart from requiring IE to participate) is the additional cost of access to the show.
It's a trick, you see. Of course Clear Channel mainly just promotes interchangeable froth like 'N Sync and Britney. Since bands like these never actually sing, they always just lip-sync to their latest album, all they have to do is sell you that album -- and charge extra for it!
...]
I'm in awe of such sneakiness...
[for that matter, they could probably sell a different band's album, and half the concert goers wouldn't realize it
We live, as we dream -- alone....
As a verteran of a half-dozen or more Grateful Dead concerts, and owner of perhaps a dozen or so "Locally produced" concert tapes, mostly produced by microphones held up on crutches, the quality does leave something to be desired for instant recordings. It was also well known that "insiders" could get access to the soundboard, and often would daisy chain the feed from that. Soundboard recordings were better, but not quite up to the standards of the Europe '72 recordings.
With modern digital recording techniques and an experienced sound crew, it is probable that a crew could be editing tracks of the CD while the concert was still going on, and at least trim off some of the rough edges of a live performance. such as long intervals between songs, the drummer knocking over a mic stand, and so on. That and some basic equalization and balancing would be pretty much all that would be possible given the tight time constraints of a concert. A skilled soundcrew would have to consider the effects of their actions not only on the audience, but on the recordings as well. I suspect that the sound engineers would use a seperate set of inputs to their own recording equipment from the instruments and vocalists, as opposed to the equipment used to amplify the music for the auditorium. This would give them more flexibility to deal with the varibles of a live performance in near-real time.
I suspect that in the end, the recordings will be of fairly good quality, but will still have quite a few rough edges that will be present in the final recording. From the concertgoer's point of view, this is not necessarily a bad thing, since anomalies such as when the lead guitarist breaks 2 strings on his guitar and keeps on going are the things that make a live performance unique and memorable anyway.
first post for palestine!!!!!!
passing out AOL cds.
Just say no.
This is the way concerts should be.
Ive always thought after i fork over $50+ on a show, they should give me not only a recording of THAT show, but a shirt or something.
perhaps this is why i havent attended a concert in 5 or 6 years. the value just isnt there.
not any more... FIRST POST
They say the CD's will be availble within five minutes not from the final note. It only take 3 minutes to burn a CD these days. The article also mentions using multiple burners, so they would record the CD live, and then make multiple copies from that all at the same time. The article also mentions that they don't know what the demand will be, so I take it they'll make a whole batch right after the concert and not make everyone wait 5 mins for a CD.
EGG, the Electronic Gamers Guild
What might the oldest form of music pirating be?
Clear Channel (owner of every radio station in America)
Actually, Clear Channel is the largest operator of radio stations in the US. They don't own every one. They run about 1,200 of America's 11,000 stations.
..of the law of KISS ! (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Because of the hurry You must have a simple microphone config.
Because of the hurry You can't process/"adapt" etc the sound to very often inferior levels the usual CD-recording deps use to do.
Because of all this it will often result in a more dynamic and unfiltrated music.
Sic!
Mundus Vult Decipi
no comment..
Poop!
Best slashdot comment yet!
first post?
I once purchased a Doobie Brothers recording right after the concert. All I could hear was Rerun eating popcorn, and Rodg signing "Fly Me to the Moon" I want my money back!!!
Why are they doing this? Could it be that Clear Channels idea of buying every radio station in the US and put bland, generic, boring music on it isnt making them enough money? Hmmmm, it will be interesting though, how can they turn a lively event like a concert into a bland and generic format? Well, if anyone can kill the joy and excitement of concerts, Clear Channel can!
How does this have anything to do with the RIAA?
I think this might be my first first post!
The demand would be so high
I would buy one after every show I went to
let's hope this spreads!
generic
I have FIRST POST! ph33r m3!
First of all, I just hate scare talk, it's the same talk that makes me loathe anything Ashcroft says. Clear Channel owns about a thousand radio stations in the USA -- so that's about 1 out of 10 or 11. Okay, that's a bunch -- BUT, for instance, in my area, my 3 favorite radio stations (or is that less despised?) are all COX and VIACOM. There are other ugly companies out there, I am afraid if we keep putting the spotlight on Clear Channel the other 2 or 3 media companies will be able to get away with more without the attention.
Having said that, the idea of 'insta-CDs' sounds cool, but also worrisome. Are these audio feeds from the soundboards??? That would be great, you bet I'd pay $10 for that. BUT.. I have a feeling they will try to sell these as a "novelty".. with the "Crowd feeling".. so it will be one shitty SHURE mic in the back of the house plugged into maybe a DAT recorder. Ewww... value drop..
Novelty == Bad
Sweet Bootleg == Good
Artist rights == Where are they??
SFX Promoters (the company CC bought, that is doing this) == Profit!
They'll react the way they always react: take your money, complain about those damn pirates, lobby their Senators to have you put in jail, and then take your money again. Share and enjoy!
(Not sure how much this would involve the RIAA anyway: live performance royalties are more of an ASCAP/BMI thing.)
News for Nerds. Stuff that Matters? Like hell.
As long as they have _some_ reliable feed from the equipment (and it definitely is somewhere after pre-amplifiers and mixers) all they need is to digitize and record it in real time (professional sound card + large hard drive or RAID), then just dump it to a CD (regular CD, if you forgot what it is, does not use any compression). If you are in a hurry, use CD-R.
Contrary to the popular belief, there indeed is no God.
legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
Arrr, It's hardly pirating if you are paying $15 a pop for it, me lad.
here in australia this is common for some years. i have recordings of nearly all concerts which i attendes in the last few years. often you can buy them at/after the concert. the quality is ok for the price :)
Haha! My real first post as an Anonymous Coward.
;D
/. )
Yay!
(Ok, it's lame. But I just -had- to do it. I never got to do it in 3 years of reading
-An oldbie Anonymous Coward
...because this is a really good idea? My god, something good to come out of CCU! What horrors!
[ home ]
The Sony MD players are very popular with the bootleg crowd. I imagine a Beowulf cluster of those will do the job (the players, not crowds).
first post? -X
Forst proast!
--
PGT Trollregard
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
er.. I assume the fellows will have to get permission before offering the recording for sale.
Some bands already do this to a certain extent. Mostly bands on independent labels, but they will let anyone with a tape recorder/minidisc/etc plug in their device directly to the mixing console .. so they can get a good sounding copy for free. as opposed to paying for a bad sounding bootleg.
Another example is pearl jam, who released a recording of every city they played on their 2001 tour.
Sounds like a good deal. Although I don't exactly know who would buy a recording of Britney - live at the Verizon amphitheater..
The RIAA calls anything that generates income in their industry that doesn't use them as a middle man PIRACY.
Got news for you RIAA, like all middle men, your days are numbered!
This looks like it could be pretty good. It'd stop the pirates at the concerts, although some bands actually aprove of such things, as long as its well done. Either way, it'll all end up as MP3s, which is kind of ironic i think.
Getting the CD moments after the end of the concert implies some serious collaboration between the artists and Clearchannel. Do artists even have the right to market their live recordings, or is this usually covered in their contracts? Someone in the know here?
I would totally buy this. I assume the band would might even get a better cut than they get from selling albums
Who knows but I was the first to reply for once in 3 years ;)
FP!
Clear Channel SUX!
Clueless slashdotter!
The RIAA will be pissed especially since this means all live performances will end up on kazaa and in better quality than the usual amatuer recording where the crowd is louder that the band.
"Madness is something rare in individuals - but in groups, parties, peoples, ages it is the rule." -- Nietzsche
They should make the shows available online shortly thereafter, for a reduced price. That way people without broadband could get the CD, and people with broadband could get like an SHN, or could choose to get the CD with goodies.
Anyone know if they would include any interesting packaging? Sounds like a regular-old-burner job, on a cheap CD and a blank jewel case, but some kind of custom packaging special to that show would make it sell more, I bet.
When the boy band du jour finishes their lip-synching performance on stage, Clear Channel can just have the soundtracks ready to go...
~~~
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
As a general rule, if a song takes five minutes to play, it will also take five minutes to record it. You can leave the mic on for an extra 10 minutes but that won't improve the sound quality.
My experience with all this is 1) Basically amateur and 2) totally restricted to classical music. Nevertheless, I will jump in!
Studio tracks have a couple of features that won't be duplicated here:
1) No background noise. Well, duh.
2) No remixing, dubbing, computer enhancement, etc. If the bassist comes in a tenth of a second late, a studio can use a computer to timshift his entire track (or just make that one note a tenth of a second longer).
3) The room often has desirable accoustic properties not duplicated in an arena.
4) Often, a studio track will be multiple performances blended together.
Now, a concert recording could, given enough time, take advantage of #2. I don't have enough concert recording to know if the people who make them generally clean them up with a computer, but I believe they do not.
RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
I'd bet dollars to lira that the sales will be legitimized in the eyes of the RIAA by giving them money which they'll proceed to steal from the artists.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
fp
But surely it'd benefit from mastering properly?
(FP!)
How is this pirating?
I think it's a great idea. I know if I caught a great show, and as I'm walking out I could get a CD of the show I just heard for $15, I'd do it in a heartbeat. Bootlegging already happens, why not get a piece of the pie? Plus it sounds like a good way to maybe directly support a smaller band.
Duffman can never die! Only the actors who play him!
Gee, I wonder if they really have the 25 000 CD roasters ready to rumble when the concert ends.
Imagine guys running around in tights, collecting ready CDs from the recorders.
If you were to stick with the p2p/irc traditions, there would already be a bootleg mp3 copy before the concert started, as well as a cam movie of it.
Be you Admins? nay, we are but lusers!
Phish is already offering such a service. They even offer MP3 ($9.95 per concert) or SHN (non-lossy) file formats ($12.95 per concert). They are slowly compiling an archive of downloadable media for all their concert recordings, as well. How ya' like dem apples?
For something like this, which they say is going to be elevated to the amphitheater level, wouldn't they want to bring in a CD pressing device, rather than a CD burner?
First post and a free CD of the Ozzbourne Show?
Software is not supposed to be about how to work around a useability issue. - Ken Barber
For many bands this type of recording is illegal. But for many other bands it is perfectly legitimate. Dave Matthews Band, Phish, the Grateful Dead, all permitted and even encouraged tape trading as a grass roots way of promoting the band. The problem many tape traders face these days, at least for someone who follows the likes of a popular band like Dave Matthews Band, is the incredible demand for these recordings. It's very hard for one person who taped a show to get copies of his tape out to the hundreds of people who want it. And a lot of those that want it want it *right now*.
I ran a web site for a few years that offered free downloads of Dave Matthews Band shows. The taping community is very strict about people not profiting from exchanging tapes, but because the demand is so great there are always a few unscrupulous individuals selling copies of a show that someone else taped. The actual tapers would usually get pretty pissed about this, rightfully so, since someone else was profiting off of something they 1) spent a lot of money on equipment to do and 2) did for free as a hobby and for the benefit of others.
Running the website I was kind of in a similar position: I was spending literally hundreds of dollars per month keeping the site running and paying for the bandwidth to let people download these shows, I was doing it as a hobby and to share the music with others, but the majority of the emails I got from the people who visited my site were gripes about slow downloads, inability to get the show they wanted, etc. I tried to encourage people to trade with each other instead of download from me, by creating a sort of match making database where they could post the shows they have and the shows they wanted and them email each other to work out a trade. People complained about that too, even though I was offering it all for free.
I finally decided it wasn't worth the trouble and shut everything down. (The final straw was when I had a hardware failure that took the site down and I didn't have the time to fix it.) From my point of view, the problem with the taping community was that they were collapsing under the enormous demand of all of the 'newbies' who didn't know anything about taping, but knew that someone out there was taping and therefore they absolutely had to have a copy of the show they were just at.
I'm not a big fan of Clear Channel, but if they can simultaneously make a few bucks off of concert CDs and at the same time relieve the pressure on the taping community by satistying the demand for instant gratification, I say go for it. My guess is that the quality will not be as good as some of the hobbyist tapers out there (these guys take sound quality *very* seriously), but it will be good enough for Joe Average, and the hardcore taping community will keep on doing what they are doing, without quite so much pressure from everyone else to get fast, wide distribution of their recordings.
vao todos para o caralho que vos foda.
I imagine the RIAA won't mind at all because they'll certainly find a way to acquire 98% of the profits from it (either through friendly negotiations or litigation).
Neat idea, though. Sounds like they'll need to have a fast food like setup trying to burn enough CDs to satisfy a good sized crowd.
... we have legal bootlegs? Neat stuff ;)
In regards to near-real time live CD's of a concert effect on sales of regular CD's, I think it will probably not affect that much in the way of studio-recorded albums.
First of all, Clear Channel is charging US$15 per disc, so they've already factored in royalty payment costs to ASCAP and BMI, the two largest music rights organizations in the world. Secondly, there are often big differences between a live performance and a studio-recorded performance; the studio recording has a level of polish that very few live performance versions can equal. In short, in terms of lost revenue to rights holders it's minimal, and in fact could actually add to the revenue of rights holders.
Mind you, I think if Clear Channel charges around US$11 per disc for these recordings there will be great interest by fans to buy these discs, since at US$11 per disc the incentive to pirate the discs at that price is low.
This is an idea whose time has come. Let the RIAA bitch and moan all they want. The concert goers are not stealing the music. They are buying it with the full knowledge and consent of the very artists who produced it.
Don't really see a problem with this, as long as it is not sold as bootlegs. The artist/band will probably never release the concert anyway. Btw.. head out to FurthurNet for some real live music sharing in great quality (Shorten format!)
I can just see it now: $15 US for a poorly (if at all) mastered, poorly mixed, off-the-boards burn made in a concert hall with heinous acoustics.
They'll make millions, of course.
My mouth waters at the idea of having an instantly-available, decent, recording of some shows I've seen; the Autechre/Tortoise gigs I saw here in Atlanta, or Yo La Tengo last time through, for example. But the ones that'll actually be available? Britney Spears: Live at the Schlitz Arena in Dayton or some such tripe.
No thanks. And yes, I'm sure it'll be DRM'ed (am I the first person to use that as a verb?) six ways to Sunday. Remember, kids-don't steal music. Or Top 40 radio.
{Is this first post? I feel dirty somehow...}
THE GOOD HUMOR MAN CAN ONLY BE PUSHED SO FAR
Bart Simpson on chalkboard in episode 2F18
Oh great... So now, for $15.99 I can get another poor quality, live recording of my favorite band.
No thanks. I'll wait for them to produce one in the studio so I can actually hear all the instruments and vocals.
The promoter of the Concert must get permission from the Tour Management of the band, if they say Go ahead, there is NOTHING the RIAA can do since the Tour manager is giving the promoter a right to copy and sell the CD's. Im sure the promoter has a deal setup where the band will get a kickback from each CD sold.
I would imagine that more CD's will sell this way than anyone would think.
I follow the SDK and GDN principles.. Spelling Dont Kount, Grammer Dont Neither
is /. /.ed?
WANTED: Good sig, funny, concise yet somewhat esoteric.
Sounds Like A good Idea.....I can't really be upset about this.
-Cnik
i think its an awsome idea. It's like when subway musicisans put their stuff on cd and sell it to you in the subway. ( i bought Lorenzo LaRoc's cd that way, he plays eletric violin, it's great!)
and what aspect about recording would make it take so long? Record the show, burn it on cd, sell it to fans. i dont see how this could not be done, in fact Unless you really need to edit it, or normalize it or something like that, it really shouldn't take that long. For me personally, I would definitly love this new service.
Sun is Warm, Grass is Green
ClearChannel is a big, bad corporation. This is very unbecoming of them.
If you have a million monkeys operating a million CD burners, you can (eventually) create anything.
OLPC Australia
Does anybody really think the RIAA won't be getting a cut of this? Of course they will.
And yet one more example of free, or almost free, copyrighted material. It can be compared to such companies as BMG, the give you 7 cd's if you buy one. Even with all the threats and the wind I believe the only possible outcome is copyrighted works will be available to everyone without harrassment. It comes back to the law of supply and demand, if something is freely available (such as water) why would someone pay $15 for it even if it is copyrighted. Just restating the obvious one day at a time...
Pearl Jam is already doing this for their upcoming tour (starting today). You buy the "bootleg" online and download unmastered mp3s of the show the day after the concert. Then a mastered version of the show is sent to you 7-10 days later.
most concerts are either playback or outright miming anyways, so one can't really say it would be piracy (as there is nothing to pirate that hasn't already been pirated.. well perhaps the on-stage-panty-throwing). :)
consider it an apology from CC over the shitty artistry
and I bet it will make tickets 30 bucks more expensive again. 20 for the cd, 5 in administrative costs and 5 for buyer admitting piracy.
As to whether the RIAA will like this: well, I think it all boils down to who controls this market. Notice that most of the times, the RIAA will let things like this happen because a company is spearheading this effort.
I have a feeling that if consumers really started encouraging this, it would be a bigger deal than if a company started it. Mostly, it has to do with how much money the RIAA will (probably) get from this endeavor.
I think it's a great idea!
Live are often more interesting than studio album and yet, you often have to wait long before they are published... (Like Pink Floyd 1981 Live in Berlin...)
(I just hope these CD will be cheap)
The RIAA wants money. They would get it this way too.
The only difference is that instead of edited highlights of a concert, sold a year after, the item on sale is a direct recording, made at the scene. It would even most likely be of poorer quality, since regular concert recordings are edited, for example leaving out three consecutive minutes of audience screaming, uninteresting talk between the songs, and other stuff that really just subtracts from the overall album quality.
Your idea of legitimizing piracy is odd. After all, as long as those who own the rights gets paid, it's not piracy, and I for one didn't read anything about Clear Channel intending to sell these recordings without giving anything to the rights owners.
If anyone could be worried, it's the people that arrange the concerts, since the risk that a concert recording goes wide spread is increased. However, I know very few people that attend concerts just to hear the songs. The songs are almost always on CD already. Most people I know, inlcuding myself, attend concerts to see the artists, to experience the concert itself. And a quick, unedited audio recording certainly wouldn't be a match for that.
I think it sounds like a great idea, if they indeed have it (remember it isn't confirmed that they do).
FIRST POST!
From the article:
"the live CDs would probably sell for around $15"
Probably, eh? Lemme break this down: concert t-shirts are generally $10 at the mall, but $20 at the concert. By that same rule, band CDs are $15 at the mall, so I'm guessing they'll be closer to $30 at the concert.
What's your damage, Heather?
yay fp
After attending a Steve Vai concert I wandered home in a happy (though slightly deaf) daze. Got home, put on some more Vai to wind down. Within about 30 seconds I had to turn it off because it just couldn't compare to what I had just heard. A couple of weeks later, with the memory gradually fading, the CD returned to its former glory. Artists often compile their best performances from a number of concerts and release these as 'Live' albums - in my mind we should leave this kind of thing to those who know best. And since when have concerts lasted less than 80 minutes?
"Where there's a pyramid, there's a pint of fish"
Even though this is from Clear Channel, this sounds (in theory) like a great idea. Capture the concert forever right there. Well, maybe not forever if it's on CD-R like the article talks about.
This has to scare the heck out of the RIAA -- the last thing they want to see is copies of these on the latest file-sharing software.
But first Clear Channel has to get me to a concert -- the prices they charge now are ridiculous. And do we really think they'll charge only $15 for a copy of the concert on CDR? When a t-shirt is selling for $30-$40 and a hat is $25, I can't believe a CD would only be $15.
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating? Don't know. Don't care.
Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast?
Uh, a couple cables running from the stereo outs on the mixing board to the line in on a decent PC? Then, after the concert, perhaps a few CD-R drives? The biggest issue would seem to be any editing to get it below 80 minutes, but half-decent audio engineer can trim that stuff down quickly, or they could just do 1 hr shows, or just sell the end, or whatever.
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
Duh? Popular musicians typically sound much better with multiple takes and processing. Some artists are good enough that it's not a big factor, and then of course anything that's improvised (*not* Britney Spears) is different each time.. Possibly better in many people's opinion.
The real killer for an individual live recording for me is sheer nostalgia. I've been to performances that I simply loved. I'd love to take them with me for the rest of my life to listen to and remember back. I've got recordings of a couple of these, but most of them are now lost.
Of course, for most pop artists that are aiming to do the same set every time (aside from "Hello New York/Chicago/Milwaulkee/Seattle/LA!"), just buying the "Live" CD released 6 months afterwards is accurate enough, but still doesn't offer the immediate gratification of buying it as you walk out the door.
Plus, a good performance, as opposed to great, often fades in goodness over time, as your 12 year old mind shifts from Britney to Justin. Selling it immediately will likely milk the cash cow more efficiently. Even better, a lot of those little 12 year old suburbanites can afford to buy the single, the album, the poster, the trapper keeper, the lunchbox, and multiple live recordings.
ah yeah, riaa, u gonna die, n u know that already,
damn narrow thinking stupid coward conservatists
Im pretty sure they will get the band/record lables permission before recording and releasing the "bootleg". Folks around here just *want* the RIAA to get up and jumpy about things so they have something to complain about.
/rant
adventure-today.com
Regards
J Williamson
Heh, can't be worse than the bootlegs I get off of kazaa...
The snow doesn't give a soft white damn whom it touches. -- ee cummings
Pearl Jam is already doing this on their current tour that kicks off tonight in Australia. If you buy the concert in advance on cd, you'll be able to download unmastered mp3's the day after the from their servers. The fully mastered cd's ship about a week later.
It's no longer piracy. RIAA was only upset because they weren't making $$$ from it. Now they can have their $$$, and you can have you bootleg quality CD. Sounds like you're getting ripped off.
1st post ? no way
..at least on the upside, they won't be copy-protected... ...on the downside, though, they'll run $50 and be poor acoustically....
I used to be someone else. Now I'm someone better.
Real life is underrated.
ffp!
One person buys, rips, uploads..
If there's someone there recording it and creating a CDR image of the recording on a notebook where's the problem of mass-burning and selling them?
I don't think the problems for this approach would be technical...
Gee, noone has posted yet! Sounds like a great idea to me!
They will say "Thanks for our percentage."
It is free money for them. Not very complicated.
BTW, first?
If a concert didn't last at least 90 min * encore, i feel cheated. So you can burn 80 min max on an empty CD-R, you need at least 2 Empty ones for the concert.
And you must also look at the conditions in some arenas or clubs, not exactly equiment friendly.
But with new Burners in the 52x-Range, mobile racks, and an rxpert soundcheck up front it might be possible
... whenever a text is transmitted, variation occurs. This is because human beings are careless, fallible, and occasiona
First post!
wha?
When the Counting Crows played at my college a few months ago, i hopped on the net looking for other people who were at the concert. i found a bunch of people and was excited to read their opinions. then i found out that a bootleg was available! i emailed a couple of people, and a guy in florida (i'm in new york) hooked me up! i mailed him two CD-Rs and gave him return postage and he burned me the bootlegs. i made a new friend.
i hope that ClearChannel doesn't get very far with this because in most cases the people who make and trade bootlegs are the biggest fans around.
I believe that in the future, artists will earn their money mostly through live performances.
It has begun.
but large corporations do
another American example of no one cares about the individual, but if you are wearing a suit and represent a large corporation then laws don't apply and screwing the customer is ok
Phish has been doing this for ages. I have an official CD of the Philadelphia concert I attended. Although, it wasn't instant (took a few months for it to go on sale)
Clearchannel is a big boy. I seriously doubt they'd have decided to go through with this without consulting their legal team and the concert promoters and studios.
Besides, they have the labels by the balls anyway. Hard to hear music when the guy who owns the station refuses to play it.
Phish does this, kinda. Their shows are available for download from the web (for a price) in mp3 or shn format, in 24 - 48 hours after the show. Oooh...clearchannel is busting out the burners - groundbreaking stuff. Self-suing in their future?
Considering that the VAST majority of music promoted by Clear Channel is likely to be lip-synced when performed live, what exact is the point?!
Two big bands already allow bootleg tapes, under terms somewhat similar to the GPL, support these bands, such as the two in the subject, and you support trading music in a free and fair environment.
pond
P0Nd
Silly person.....Clear Channel *is* the RIAA and vice versa.
What about if the singer's just lipsyncing? For instance, someone like Britney Spears... Wouldn't that be, like, same thing as the studio session, and therefor not duplicable without the studio's consent?
Also, do they still have to pay royalties to the songwriter for the CD? I mean, technically, they've already paid royalties to perform the song in public, and these are the exact same people who listened to it at the concert, so do they have to pay another royalty for the recorded version as well?
Owns all the radio stations in America? You mean the US? And you surely don't mean it actually OWNS ALL RADIO STATIONS?
As for the question that the article raises (how can they record them so fast) - well, they say they'll have multiple CD burners, by burning at 1x speed they'd have a batch of CD ready at the end of the concert. Even if they record on HD first, they can have the first batch ready in 5 minutes with a 12x burner.
I miss my rubber keyboard.(Homepage)
I went to one of the guns n roses concerts - there won't be anything to record but screaming hooligans (fans?) throwing beer and hating axl!
~frank
"Other bands play, but Manowar KILLS"
.. As we all know, all concerts today depend on a sound system, there for it's just a matter of hooking up a line from the console to a PC (or an array of PCs, for redundency) and recording.
So by the time the shows over, you'll have an ISO ready to burn. With industrial CD duplicators, the ones that have sort of a beowulf of many, many CD Writers, you'll have 100's of CD's by the time the fans get to the gate. The covers and lables can be pre-printed after all.
You can even sell it like hot cakes, say you don't have enough, it'll take only what? 5 minutes to toast another batch?
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
Grab the concert goer when they are still excited about the concert they just saw - I just hope that the artists get a nicer cut than anyone else!
Sound waves should be free!
They do not own all the radio stations.. even by their own admission.
.
And according to this Byte article they are not even that good. Too many advertisements, the same dull chart songs everywhere. Apparently they have real competition in the satellite radio market too, but I am not American so this is just all hearsay to me :)
There is always NPR too!
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
Exactly what does this mean???
Sounds good to me-- not that it generally takes too long before SHN files show up on Furthurnet after a GD or Phish show....
hmmmmmmmmm
The license to burn copies will either be included in the cost of the ticket (even if you don't want a burned copy), or it'll be in the price of the burned copy. The RIAA won't lose out.
What is Clear Channel's incentive for offering this? To make people listen to their comments between/on top of songs? What's the guarantee these will be "usable" songs?
See
here.
It isn't immediate (I think they promise to have the recording to you within 7-10 days), but a download link is supposed to be emailed the night of the show . . .
'I ain't a liar, baby, and I ain't proud I just want what I'm not allowed.' -- Violent Femmes, 36-24-36
Where is everyone else?
1 2 3... Test... Something's wrong here... Duh!
First off, Clear Channel doesn't own every radio station in america. They just have a whole lot of em. Secondly, I think its a great idea. This might be the alternative revenue stream that the RIAA is looking for.
Now, I bet CC will take a big cut, but if this takes off and the RIAA members start posting profits again, it is going to be much harder to persue digital rights management (and other agendas) on the internet.
Alternately, this will make a media conclomerate even more entrenched in the music business. They make the shows, they play what they want on the radio, and now they are cornering the final avenue of the music industry, CD's. A great idea by a monopoly sometimes isn't a great idea for everybody.
Why, o why must the sky fall when I've learned to fly?
I am not American but according to Andy Patrizio at Byte.com, Clear Channel stations all basically play the same songs and are full of ads?
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
I bet that the bands get screwed on the deal. They probably sign away such rights when they sign up to use Clear Channel to promote their concerts. Which, as you may have heard, is what musicians have to do in order to get played on Clear Channel stations.
Not that it's a bad thing, necessarily. Who exactly would want to listen to a band who wanted to get played on Clear Channel!!!
I'm glad to see the music industry is finally finding a way to try to make moeny by giving people exactly what they want.
I for one think it's a great idea, and love hearing live recordings of my favourite bands. I know that I'd rather buy a recording of the concert I just watched (or maybe copies of other concerts?) then try to track down poor quality bootleg's on the net.
Maybe this is just a sign of things to come, and we'll soon be able to download songs at a reasonable price, instead of being gouged by high record prices, or annoying restrictions on the media was can legitimately download.
Well... We can dream anyway, can't we?
------------------
"Never Attribute to malice what is adequately explained by stupidity..."
The RIAA will not be happy campers. After all, there's a reason most concert recordings are called 'bootlegs'. These recordings will be on very shaky ground legally and that's enough for the RIAA to rip them a new orifice.
No doubt.
Pearl Jam's already known for selling their own live shows, as is Phish - this just expedites the production, and gets the shows out sooner. (And the recording quality is usually better.) I don't even see why the RIAA would be involved - it's not like Clear Channel's allowed to just tape a concert and sell it in the lobby.
Sorry for posting twice, could not find my posting listed on Slashdot for some reason and thought it did not go through.
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
First post (portugal!) i hope this after concert recording catchs on!
http://blog.ebserver.org
This is not really pirating if you ask me... I mean, you are even probably on the recording as a part of the audience AND you payed for it. As I understand it, the CD's would only be sold to the attending audience.
Anyway, cool idea, must have
What a shitty website this is - man, you people are fucktards.
They'll just plug in to the sound system they already have set up for these things. Where do you think all of the live CDs come from in the first place?
Actually, it's about time. Concert traders have been doing this for many years - taping then trading shows with the band permission. There is no reason why the music can't adopt this method in a easier, commercial form. My only worry is that if they are offering this, then they may stop the trading of shows from fans.
Would they still allow tapers? Almost my entire music collection consists of live recordings (thank you furthurnet.com and etree.org) But i doubt they would waste their time with the music that i listen to.
FP for mrgoat!
Since it cost way over 50 dollars to go to a concert now days and since it isn't costing the studios any money to make and package the CD I see no reason why Clear Channel (evil) can't do it. As far as the quality, the Dave Matthews Band's live CDs aren't too bad.
-----
One is born into aristocracy, but mediocrity can only be achieved through hard work.
What sort of money will the performer recieve from this deal? Is this to be yet another musical ripoff?
Since RIAA interests' is to make the big companies money, they'll propably go against this. However if the artist get her money, I think this wil be nice. This way, live cd's might get extra special since you know that you was there and you did hear the sound realtime (well.Almost.). I don't know much about pressing a cd, but now adays you have 52 x burners. That means a cd in a few minutes. If you just had a bunch of those spitting out cd's...Well...Maybe not possible. But to press a cd should work I think.
Assembling etherkillers for fun an profit
The quality should not be impaired, if the recording is done to the master mix. In fact, you might even hear it with a better sound quality than if you are at first row. I like this idea, I like it very much...
If you add some photographs to the mix (many bands don't let you take photos), we could have a really groundbreaking attitude here!
Now CD ... dunno. Some artists who are brilliant in the studio can really suck live, like Dream Theater. (to be fair, the muscians are always spot on, it's LaBrie that has troubles during some concerts and that can detract from the entire experience...)
During the early Lasnerian 80's, "Direct to Disk" (where Disk == 33 RPM vinyl) was proudly displayed on many classical album covers. The idea was to minimize re-mixing and intermediate (mostly analog) processing to make the recording as authentic as possible.
In part this was in response to over-remixed records produced in the previous decade or two. It was also, in hindsight, mostly (but not entirely) a gimmick, a way to get someone to buy yet another copy of Beethoven's nth.
That said, the Clear Channel recordings will obviously be done with an audience, not in a "quiet" studio, etc. Exactly as advertised, in fact.
First the article says "...has ambitious plans to record live CDs of its shows and sell them to patrons within five minutes after those shows end." Five Minutes, not "moments" as the post suggests. Also, at $15 a pop, I'm pretty sure they could cover the cost of licensing from the record company.
Is posting broken, or why aren't there any yet?
Since concert promoter will be the one selling these I presume performer will get the slice of the pie as well, how will it be considered pirating?
The article states that these CDs are produced with CD-R technology. Though Americans are allowed to resell the CDs (17 USC 109), they can't do so on eBay. An eBay policy bans the sale of copies recorded on CD-R media unless the sale is authorized by the copyright owner, even if the sale would otherwise be lawful in the United States.
I'm assuming that these CDs will not carry copy restriction technology because the popular CD recording software does not support it.
Will I retire or break 10K?
In fact, no posts at all.
YESSS! With clearchannel leading that pack that means that we can now get live CDs from bands like..
umm..
Boston.. Bon Jovi.. Creed.. Milli Vanilli Part Deux.. Led Zeplin Remembered Again.. Bon Jovi.. Creed.. Boston!.. Led Zeplin.... Creed.. Creed..
pm
** "It's not my job to stand between the people talking to me, and the ones listening to me." -- Pego the Jerk
fp?
A. Clear Channel doesn't own every radio statino in America. They own a lot, but nowhere close to all of them.
B. CD's are already being created on the fly at shows. Have been for years. I remember seeing this at least two years ago at a local band's show. A simple CD duplicator can spit 'em out *fast*. This is about as groundbreaking as taking tickets at the entrance to a show.
Moose!
I think that this a wonderful idea. The essence and soul of music is live performance, and, in the past, when live performances go well, people wish they could relive them. Now they can. Of course, there are some problems with this:
1. If the artists lip-synchs at concerts, then what's the point of having a recording like this? (And yes, most pop artists still do this. Then again, I don't go to pop concerts...)
2. If the CD is of inferior quality, or if your CD gets scratched and is no good, there's no way to get a replacement.
I still like the idea however, and if it were avaliable at the concerts I frequent, I would be more than happy to pick one of these up.
They'll be ecstatic to have an "official" and therefore copyrighted version of the performance. That means that there will be no legal bootlegs, I think. It's just another chance to get a buck from John Q.
Of course I could be wrong but that's what your mod points are for!
The first step would be recording directly to CD, or directly to hard disk.
Someone will monitor and insert the appropriate track breaks.
Once the original CD tracks are lain down, distribute those tracks to 10 PCs across a 100mbps network, from a server with a 1Gbps connected server should take less than 4 min.
Now burn at 52x.
A 74 min CD at 52x will take less than five minutes to burn, with an additional two to five minutes to lay down the TOC. The first ten CDs will take about 15 min to produce, with another 10 every ten min there after. (though while the first ten are burning, you could have another ten systems getting tracks and starting their burns as well)
Considering how long it takes to get out of a concert, pick out T-shirts, look over older recordings, etc. The CDs will probably be ready at about the same time as the concert attendees are ready to buy them.
[Labels will start appearing before the last song is completed if the track time is not included.]
Then again, that's just my opinion. Someone else may have another oppinion.
-Rusty
You never know...
this is an excellent example of the type of practices that will yield more restrictive policies from the hsub regime.
I've done a fair amount of audio engineering and audio post-processing and I can see several problems here. If they really are offering CDs "minutes" after the show how will they burn enough copies? Are they recording directly to a multiple CD burner? If yes, how are they going to get the track boundaries right? What about engineering glitches during the show? Fades etc.? If they are going to sell these for $15 a CD as suggested, are people willing to pay $30 for a completely unpolished raw recording? Think about it - all the reasons cited by the industry for charging that much for a CD in the first place are gone since it's really just some guy running a patch off the soundboard.
I know the band Phish is selling live shows now over the Internet - I got a 3 CD show of NYE for $15, I think, only a few days after the show. The sound quality was fine and there were no glitches, but it wasn't studio quality for sure. It seems to me the best way to do a live show is to take a multitrack recording and mix it after the fact by someone who knows what they're doing.
Another thing, for what they are charging for concerts these days perhaps they're hitting their audience at the wrong time, when the music is still fresh in their heads.
A squid eating dough in a polyethylene bag is fast and bulbous, got me?
Entire concert on CD within 10 minutes of the last note.
Entire concert on Kazaa within 1 hour of the last note!
no time to get the mix right, balance the sound, etc. yuck
They started their tour yesterday in Australia, and to avoid the huge avalanche of "official bootlegs" that came from their 2000 tour the opted for a new method.
Any fan club members can buy the bootleg ahead of time for $10 if theyd like, and they can download an unmastered mp3 not long after the show. In a few weeks they receive the mastered version on CD. Theyre doing this for all of their tour stops. Theyll only release the best from their tour this time.
What's happening? Nobody is posting? Where are the witty remarks? The 'last week we hated that company cause it's closing all independent radio stations while we love it this week cause it's doing something cool'?
quake74
Now it's possible to burn a CD in 4 minutes (less?) it shouldn't be too much of a problem to have at least some ready as people are leaving the building. The difficult part will be producing a decent mixdown in realtime (nobody does this at the moment). Maybe PVR-style music recording - pause the mix, change levels, catch up in the interval - will help, but this will still be a labour-intensive process and will not always work.
i already make my own personal recordings of concerts with my minidisc recorder... quality is usually superb...
In 2000, Pearl Jam offered professional bootlegs of their concerts a few months after the shows ended; a total of 72 discs. They will be recording and releasing each individual show from the 2003 tour in its entirety as an official bootleg. Unlike the 2000 bootleg series, the 2003 bootlegs will not be available in stores. Once you've placed your order you will receive a URL to download unmastered MP3's of the entire show within hours of the show's real-time completion. The fully mastered double CD bootleg is expected to ship within 2-3 days if you've ordered before the show date.
Microsoft/software = ClearChannel/audio??
Skivvy Niner? Email me!
HEY! Look left just ONE MORE TIME!
Being an old Deadhead/Phish Phan I can tell you I've had tape of shows I've been to for a long time. Many of the bands I liked allowed taping, and you could always find a taper to give you a tape for free. Hell, my old band allowed taping and I posted a bunch online http://www.sugapablo.com/mmg and continue my new music to be free for download at my homepage. (electronica).
My big concern is the copyright status of these CDs. Tapes of shows have always been freely tradable, but now that clear channel has their mits in this, I'm afraid those days might soon be over.
It IS cool to be able to get a recording of a show, don't get me wrong, but I'm always weary of companies like clear channel mixing with the arts.
--
Sugapablo
yes, who does?
Slashdot is full of stalinist IP thieves. That is all.
Well the obvious comment is that there won't be any time for mixing, it'll just be as it comes, warts and all. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I'd be surprised if the average quality is good enough that this becomes a popular scheme. It'll have a certain novelty value at first, but I'd guess that the public will quickly become dissatisfied with how these recordings sound...
"The invisible and the non-existent look very much alike." -- Delos B. McKown
I would love to have the option of buying a CD of the concert that I just heard. It would make expensive concerts seem like you get a little more value because you can actually take the memories away with you.
You really have to wonder about the concequenses though. Bands would immediatly have their concert converted to MP3 and on the net within hours. Would people stop going to concerts?
rejected (19) accepted (0)
Is there a psychological term related to getting your stories rejected on slashdot?
The bootleggers at weekend music festivals are usually pretty fast off the mark. I've seen 'previous day' tapes available at Glastonbury, so presumably the dupes are done in a truck or similar. I would think a professional outfit can stream to disk pretty easily these days, and burning a CDR takes only a few minutes longer.
Pearl Jam are offering a similar service for their next tour via their website pearljambootlegs.com where you purchase the album online and then can download the MP3s of the concert the next day and they'll send you the CD shortly after. A bit better in my opinion as it gives them time to properly master the CD version but still lets you hear it virtually straight away via the MP3s.
One hour after this story has been posted and still no comment!! I can't believe it!! Have all slashdot readers been slashdotted!!???
If it's official and legitimate, I don't see any reason why the RIAA would have a problem: they've probably already said it's OK.
Why isn't slashdot showing any of my posts? :(
*sniffff*
In Sweden and Germany they've done this for over a year.
This is the second time in two days that he's left multiple articles posted without the ability to post visible responses. Put the drink down. Figure out how to use the system that you've been given the responsibility to manage.
Honestly, one has to start wondering. Some people's rationale for music piracy is 'the music industry hasn't embraced the new technology.' Then when they do, the whine is about how they're still not allowing us to traffic in stolen copies of the work.
I mean, goodness sakes, fellahs.
This has already been done. It's called Bootlegs.
first to post
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
Yes, it will. Time is the *only* thing that helps an engineer/producer make a recording better. I've listened to some of my recorded works for weeks before catching some things that needed to be fixed. Of course, if you're comparing it to bootleg recordings, the sound quality will probably be pretty good overall.
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
I'm guessing that the RIAA will see that as a "legitimate business" b/c it's run by such a big corporation. Of course, with Hillary stepping down, one never knows...
Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast?
You can be 99.9% certain that a digital audio recording will be taken from the live sound board to produce a master copy. This will most likely be burned onto CD or perhaps another digital medium (perhaps a USB ROM chip or something?) in a high-production environment somewhere in the back of the stage... Remember, ClearChannel owns a *large* portion of the large capacity music venues in the US right now, so it will have the room, and oddly enough the clout to require that a band allow them to record/sell the show in order to play at the venue! (Chilling thought, eh?) Look for an increase in the number of venues that prohibit bootlegging, BTW, even for bands that would otherwise allow it. (Phish, Dave Matthews, etc.)
Yet another source of NTR (Non-Traditional Revenue) for ClearChannel... Gotta love a monopoly!
First post! sdfsdfsd
- Why DMCA is bad.
- That Linux moves into areas where Windows will never go.
- The goverment is spying on you.
- How geeks allways knows how to have fun.
Please mod this up. Pleeeeeease mod this up. Mod up! Mod up! up, up, up!!! (Why are you not modding this up?):-) = I am happy
:^) = I am happy with my big nose
C:\> = I am happy with my OS
How is this "legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating"?. Money from selling these recordings would of course go to the artists playing at the concert.
This is a great idea. I would love to buy a CD of the concert that I just experienced. I think everyone who's ever attended a concert and seen all of the audio production going on has thought why the concert producers couldn't do something like this. Being able to take an actual piece of the concert away with you would add a lot of value to expensive concerts.
However, bands would have to worry about concert sales. I'm sure that a couple of hours after a concert ends, all of the audio would be all over the net. Would this effect record sales?
rejected (19) accepted (0)
Is there a psychological term related to getting your stories rejected on slashdot?
You would notice that ClearChannel probably paid for the right to do this. That mean that they give money to the copyright holders. And the copyright holder gives them the permission to do this in return.
Which is not the case with people bootlegging.
I hope this wasn't too hard to understand.
Sorry, but comments like this one in the story give the impression that you can get any rubbish comments on the frontpage, provided it's anti-RIAA stuff.
Owner of a Mensa membership card.
A *lot* ob bands have always actively encouraged audio bootlegging of their shows; it was the "p2p" before there was p2p, and a really good way to keep your audience's goodwill - "wow, i can go to the concert and make a tape to take home? cool."
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
i can imagine that many artists will be contractually prevented at venues where this service is on sale.
/. borken: pls fix kthx :)
As for the consumers, some folk don't care about the quality - witness the many poor quality live bootlegs floating around since year one..
but for a paid service, i would imagine that with all the studio wizardry in force at large gigs there's very little chance of it not being a top-notch recording.
I've heard live bootlegs that were recorded straight from the mixing desk, and the quality is superb.
Besides, what kind of business venture provides shoddy product and expects to stay in business? word gets around quickly.
(ps.
<B>note to self:</B> <I>post as html</I>
First of all, who cares what the RIAA thinks? They got nothing on ClearChannel. Not only does CC own all the radio stations but they've done a bang-up job buying all the concert promotion business as well. A musician that wants to play to more than 2000 people is going to agree to this simply because there aren't many alternatives.
Second, half of these concerts are already being played from CD (i.e. do you really think Britney can "sing" and "dance" at the same time), so how hard would it be to print some location specific covers and add the crowd noise? For any actual performances, it's not like most pro audio mixing boards can't do an out to a recording device... so why would sound quality suffer?
For $15 this would be tempting, I'd have to say... what if the band is actually good and throws in some covers or oldies or whatever? That's the kind of stuff I think is best about shows.
I do not have a signature
ya?
The lines for T-Shirts are long enough. I can't imagine trying to burn enough CDs as 20000 people show up to the counter.
Plenty of bands (Grateful Dead, Dave Matthews Band, Phish, among others) have policies that allow concertgoers to record the concerts and distribute them, not at a fee of course. And Phish has its new web service that distributes soundboard-quality concerts over the net, the next day, for a fee. Of course, with the venues taking a cut of it, that's a slightly different story.
I think it is a definite possibility. I don't really see how the (quality) process would suffer. They wouldn't have time to "doctor" the sound in the studio, which is a good thing. Just have a seperate mixing board in a truck with the burners and their you go. It doesn't have to be perfect. Most concerts rarely are.
I would rather hear a true live performance than a "live CD" that has gone through several studio sessions that fix all of shortcomings.
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
All they need to do, is be able to write onto a CD at an acceptable average speed, say 20x. That gives you a three minute burn. Now you paralelize the task, and make a van full of 30 writers, and presto: spectator comes and asks for CD, 10 seconds later (nominally) he gets a CD.
It's basically what fast food chains do.
I really doubt they're going to skip bit rows in order to speed up the process and give you shoddy material. They will give you shoddy material because they want to give you shoddy material.
On another note though, the recording will not be mastered, which can make a hell of a difference.
...I *believe* that a good deal of bands actually don't frown on this practice. Something I've heard, but can't verify. Can someone verify the legitimacy of this?
In this year's tour, you'll be able to hear mp3s of the show the next day, and will get the CD within a week.
In 2000, they released CDs of all their shows, but they came out after the tour ended.
I don't imagine the clear channel ones will cost $12 for a double CD.
I just attended a John Cage concert last weekend and I would have loved to walk away with a CD of the brilliant performance of 4'33'' that I didn't hear.
Most bootleg tapes, made from one point stereo mics or quasi-binaural mics mounted in eyeglasses, would sound better than a tape from the mixer. The mix would be for the live show, and would sound weird on tape, without the acoustic sounds from the room. I doubt very seriously that CC is going to pony up for a snake split and a second mixer to make an actual "live mix" that would sound like something worth $15. Board tapes are only good for the band to listen to afterward to see where they screwed up/did something cool. If they are gonna just set up a stereo mic pair somewhere in the house and feed it directly into a two-track recorder, they _are_ bootlegging the concert, just like any other Deadhead.
I wonder if this works out how long it would take to get to Broadway. I can't count how many times I've wanted to find a copy of the show I just saw, WITH the performers I saw performing it. Broadway could potentially be another big market for this technology.
Why? Besides the fact that I'm getting a live album of the artist, they're selling me a mnemonic device that will enable me to remember the event. I've been to crappy concerts, but I've usually left before the end of the show. The ones that I've stayed until the end, I've almost always found to be a great evenings experience; one that I try to remember as long as I can. This would allow me to play the cd and talk about what happened at specific times.
Of course, you have to wonder if this isn't just another way to screw over the artist. Clear Channel is more than big enough to do this and pay the artist next to nothing. With the record company taking almost all of the profits from studio albums and Clear Channel dictating the concer venues, the artist is getting squeezed on both ends.
1 hour and no comments?
let em do it. if the concert was good then people would probibly want a copy
woot first post
-twyst3d
Well, if the band is SELLING them after the concert, it's not pirating. I suppose the RIAA would get upset; if I took that CD home, ripped it, and placed it on LimeWire ;)
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
When I get home fom a concert I usually try to look for some bootlegs of the concert I just went to. Even if I had to pay like 15 bucks for the cd, right after I leave I'm sure al ot of fans would do that. I just hope the quality it better then the average joe bringing a tape recorder with him, with thousands of people next to him screaming.
First Post? I am not seeing any other posts even though this was posted like 2 hours ago. What is going on?
...with their recent Holiday run. The New Year's Eve show was available for download one or two days after the concert as either MP3s or SHNs (lossless compression see Etree for more on the common formats). The price was reasonable ($11/$14 depending on compression) for the equivalent of three CDs of music. The cool thing is that they still allow tapers to record and trade the shows, you just can't trade these sanctioned downloads which presumably sound better. It's a very cool idea though.
It's not pirating if it's an official copy.
no big sig
frist psot!
If you're paying for it and it's and "official recording of the concert" - emphasis on "official" - then how the fuck is this piracy? Sheesh!
i believe that the riaa can regulate the official recordings, but the band has discretion with concert material. i know DMB has a website devoted to trading concert music, as well as phish. it seems like the bands are taking the direct from the board recordings for themselves, but allowing the guys with the big microphone stands in the audience do whatever they want.
I've had this idea off and on for the past 8 years or so.
This is where music is going: live recordings of *real* gigs. No more processing, time-bending shifts of reality in the studio. The public at large are *sick* of music made for them by machine, generally.
As for this whole concert-recording idea, first of all, media is dead. Long live wireless.
Second of all, what's the #1 device *most* people have on them at a gig? Their damned cell phones.
1Gig of RAM in a cell phone is de rigeur. At least, here in Europe. I've got multiple SmartMedia cards for mine, and its even old'ish!
So, on the way out from the gig, you pick up your phone, dial the 0900 #, and the MP3 or MPG movie (we hope) of the gig you just witnessed is stashed on your card for later playback...
Maybe with your photo in it, too? Why not...
Anyway, whatever ClearChannel are up to is completely irrelevant - in my opinion - until they get Nokia/Siemens/Motorola involved in this market.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
They BETTER stop recording after the last note. I'm sure RIAA will argue that "applause" is owned by them since it appears on so many tracks.
:) Believe you me that, you thought it was so simple, didn't you? ;x
The RIAA actually has all the bases covered. What about silence?
If the groupies don't know what to make of the last song, and the silence following is recorded, well there goes that Copyright infringement case from the family of the composer of that silent piece case featured on Slashdot. The RIAA would be happy for that.
In the latter case, another reason RIAA will be happy is that the band will sue ClearChannel for adding extra seconds of silence to the end. This would be a copyright-infringing long moment of silence, and the band will argue that ClearChannel both 1) made them liable for the silence infringement 2) convulted their music by adding a part of that copyrighted Silent Piece mentioned earlier, to the end of the recording, thus making it different.
RIAA will be happy because this would mean that ClearChannel tried to sell CDs with "illegal", copyright infringing music on them.
In the final case, that the band will be booed off stage--well, nobody will buy the CD's then, right? So the RIAA will be happy for zero CD sales.
However, ClearChannel will make some money from the CD's, at least. As you can see, even in this case, all three parties will make some money out of this, one way or another
Cover your eyes and click this link!
Isn't most bootlegging done because fans want to hear the live versions or songs that are not published?
I think it is great that they now have a legitimate channel to get these recordings.
Karma: Good! Napster: Baad!
But will the official bootleg include the asshole behind me yelling at me to sit down? :)
You are not the customer.
so close yet so far away..
Good gracious, I do believe this could be one of the earliest messages posted at the start of this discussion!
And most likely sanctioned by the artists. If so, then this is an original recording made at the permission of the artists, and not in a studio owned by an RIAA member.
Since most artists still keep concert rights in 'standard industry contracts', they are at liberty to sell their individual concert rights without any RIAA member having a say in this.
"Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?"
Compared to bootlegs from a recorder in the shirt pocket? I don't think so.
They'd just use the output from the sound board.
You can never equivocate too much.
This is just like the Pearl Jam concert recordings they are offering on there latest tour. Hours after the concert, one can download the a recording of the show they just saw. Pretty cool. Also, they get it out before the bootleggers.
Meat is murder, I eat chicken.
It all depends on the mix,
If they just give you a recording of the front of house sound (what comes out of the main speakers) the sound quality may be a bit iffy when you take it home to put on your stereo.
Also, it depends on if the recording goes through a mastering process - this can be done 'on the fly' to a certain extent, but don't expect to be dazzled by the finished product.
Still, the CD's will probably sound better than something recorded on a cassette machine in a coat pocket.
What are people going to expect? seriously. And what does the RIAA have to do with anything. grow up.
slashdot is lame
most major label acts have signed a contract that grants the label exclusive rights to market recordings during a period of time. So, it seems that Clear Channel would need the approval of the label in order to market these recordings. Of course, since clear channel has a virtual monopoly on radio play in the US, that increases their leverage in negotiating with the labels.
... Milli Vanilli were doing this years ago.
Uhhh... how does this legitimize music pirating? You're paying for a legally recorded copy of the show you just saw. It's not like there's some guy in the crowd with a tape deck, selling bootlegged copies on the street afterwards... this is approved by the band/record companies/whoever else may be in charge. So just how does this legitimize piracy?
Cool!
(Stolen sig) Remember: it's a "Microsoft virus", not an "email virus", a "Microsoft worm", not a "computer worm
Under Clear Channel, all artists (both of them) will lip sync so it's nothing to have the CD's already made.
don't the edit concert CD's for the best surround and crisp quality? wouldn't editing on the fly decrease overall quality of the purchase?
FYI, Clear Channel does not own every radio station, althought they wish they did. You can tell a non-clear channel station, they are the ones playing "The Last DJ" by Tom Petty. There are a number of independents.
Regards,
jlk
because 1) it weakens their stranglehold on the music distribution channel and 2) reinforces in the consumer's mind that the RIAA is only looking out for itself -- artists and consumers be damned.
First?
all the sudden you have a following and a few dollars in your pocket for your troubles
i'm not a phish head, but i have been to a show. have plenty of friends who can't live without em. . . .
too bad CC has basically taken over concert promotion in addition to the radio. . . ..
"You never want a serious crisis to go to waste." - Rahm Emanuel
IMHO, I've paid for viewing it, so I'm somehow allowed to take my "memories" with me home... Anyway, most of the bootlegs and stuff is created in this way, thus done with amateur equipment, it does only bad things to performer or music group. Way to go! If this comes to life, then it would be nice idea to be able to subscribe for live copy and pick it up after concert on your way out! But question is quantity, not quality of the records...
Sinisa
that I had 2 years ago to do this. They stole it!
fr1st pr0st!!
Several bands allow, even encourage copying and trading of live concerts, most notably the Grateful Dead, Dave Matthews, and Phish.
Well, it would certainly deter some bootleggers . . .
Stoptional
great, all we need is more equipment to setup at a concert.
I doubt many people would actually want them. Even when professional done, live recordings are almost always sub-par.
Has /. finally reached the event horizon of some unknown tiny little blackhole on the surface of the earth, and posts are basically taking forever to get back from it?
I wonder what the bands or artists in question would think about this practice -- I would bet the concert promoters get virtually the entire profit.
Also, does this mean the band doesn't give that third encore, if it will put them over the CD's time limit? That would suck.
At least there should be someone actually listening to the bootleg before they're going to sell it by the hundreds to the audience, just to make sure that it doesn't have any faults... If they could do this with a team of 15 guys, these could all take care of 5 minutes of the CD. But.. who will correct the errors if they find any?
What I am curious about is that a friend of mine in St. Louis patented this process a little over a year ago, in anticipation of Clear Channel (and others) wanting to do this.
I know the patent has gone through, and his lawyers say its airtight. It gives him rights over any sales of a live performance while at that performance. I'll try to find the actual patent and post a link.
Maybe he'll be able to sue them and screw them over the way they've screwed over so many people lately.
Clear Channel has joind a lawsuit today that the RIAA brought against Clear Channel under the DMCA. Clear Channel is cited for attempting to circumvent the new high-tech encryption scheme known only as "Frequency Modulation (FM)." Clear Channel announced that they felt is in their "own best interest to make an example and show the public that they take this matter very seriously." Frequency Modulation is specifically designed so that only authorized receivers with DRM software can decode and process the signal, thus preventing illegal recording and re-broadcast.
It's nice when you can go to a show and the artists allow board taping. More reasons why the RIAA should be shut down.
While recording and releasing a concert quickly is not a really difficult thing to pull off, selling CDs at the venue immediately after is a bit more difficult.
Phish is already offering all of their new concerts online. They record every show to a 48 track setup, any, and they've been releasing concerts off of their soundman's reference DATs. The sound of those discs is pretty good.
What they do now is send a clone of the DAT off to the people running their website, who transfer the show, chop the files up, compress them and put them online.
However, to be able to sell discs right after the show, those doing it would have to bring in an awful lot of CD recorders, all hooked into the soundboard feed. I would imagine quality control would be a bit difficult for a couple of reasons. One is all the discs would be running live. Another is it's difficult enough to set up a good distribution amplifier setup for the large number of CD burners that would have to be used, much less one that is portable. I also don't see how they could offer discs "five minutes" after the show, seeing as it would take longer than that to unload and case a few hundred burners.
There are a lot of good reasons to try it, though. There are a lot of people out there willing to pay for recordings of concerts, as evidenced by the healthy bootleg industry. A few artists (Pearl Jam, String Cheese Incident) have done decently selling limited pressings of entire tours. The Who offered CDs of all the shows from their last tour for sale online. This seems like a good deal for distribution as it won't take up a lot of rack space in the stores, but the shipping costs can get expensive. There is also the impulse-buy factor. Bands or promoters could get a lot of extra sales, I think, selling a disc of the show as a souvenier before the concertgoers even leave the building.
In short, I wouldn't be surprised to see this in the not-too-distant future. It is possible to get better than bootleg quality out of this type of record and release program, but it won't be as good as the typical major label live album, but then again, they also wouldn't suffer from the overproduction and editing that those often have. And there is a lot of money to be made here.
Last Post!
Geez. Now you just have to con one guy into shelling out the $15 bux and then 5 minutes later it's on Kazaa...
Actually, Pearl Jam has already started doing this. (And no, they are not affiliated with ClearChannel) They began talking about it last year and now that their tour is about to start, they have started allowing people to "pre-order" the recordings for the first few shows. You have to admit - Pearl Jam has always been a trend setting group.
They aree just killing free radio!
None?
How is it piracy if it is an offical recording?
Seems like the RIAA would be more concerned that anyone giving out these recordings isn't in violation of their contract.
A concert recording is not the same as a studio album. Many fans just want to hear different versions of their favorite bands. Some bands put up mp3's of their concerts on their own websites. Primus has been doing this for years.
I think it is a cool idea provided they don't try to rip off fans by charging 20 bucks per disc
The article is short on details, but presumably they'd be taking recordings at the soundboard and making that available. It won't be as good as if they had time to mix it - they'll have to do it in real time - but it may still sound quite good. Soundboards generally sound much better than audience recordings, IMHO, since there is better stereo separation, and more clearly defined vocals.
Phish has been trying something similar to this already. Check out http://livephish.com. They are offering show downloads (mp3 or shn) within 24 hrs after the concert, if I recall correctly.
I don't find this too surprising, nor difficult for the radio stations to do in terms of equipment. I know here in Australia radio stations often do live broadcasts of concerts, so technically speaking it would be no extra effort for them to record those concerts to CD. The intrastructure and equipment is already there to pull it off, the difficult part is getting the record labels / and or artists to agree.
aus.music.scrapbook
The sound quality can't suffer as much as it does when a bootlegger typically hacks it on his microcassete recorder. They'll at least do some minimal amount of mixing and cleaning up.
I don't think the RIAA will be to upset, because I'm sure clear channel will be sending more than a few dollars their way.
This does have me wondering though. Dave Matthews Band allows the recording of their concerts by fans, always have. In many cases fans can plug into the sound board for great audio quality. But they just recently (like 2 weeks ago) changed their policy to forbid the trading of concerts over the Internet, or to make the concert available from any web or FTP site. Maybe that's connected. Clear Channel is also a major concert promoter.
My God this is a brilliant way to make money off people who are still in awe after a concert.
Since concert t-shirts cost $30-40, I predict those CD's will cost $50, at least.
It will be the concert CD that they just lip sync'ed.
duh.
sounds to me like http://www.furthurnet.com/ is going to be in trouble soon if this goes through. If the record companies can find a way to commercialize bootlegging at 99% of shows then the artists (read: their corporate masters) on Furthurnet will have that much more of a reason to not allow the open domainh trading of their shows.
---- The real Slashdot is still here. You just have to browse at -1 to read the comments.
Why did this get posted with such a stupid submitter? Legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music piracy? WTF?! It's designed to PREVENT it. If they charge you $5 to $20 for a CD of the concert you were just at, the RIAA still gets their cut and it's going to be a better recording than most of the bootlegs you might get that quickly. Hell, it should probably be included in the fucking ticket price - $50 fucking bucks, sometimes more? What the hell?
~GoRK
The RIAA doesn't give a shit... with exceptions (such as "official" live releases, think Metallica's S&M album from 1999), they do not hold the copyrights to the concerts.
The only way the RIAA is connected with this is that, in many cases, publishing companies (such as Warner-Chappell, Sony-ATV) are largely owned by RIAA members. These publishing companies, by owning the copyright to the sheet music, could, in theory, demand royalties from the sale of the CDs (it would depend on the terms under which the performers licensed the sheet music).
Since most ClearChannel events are lip-synched anyway, getting a CD copy of the concert shouldn't be too difficult.
and wtf is wrong with
I DEMAND A REFUND
The Nature of Monkey was Irrepressible!
How different is it from releasing the concert cd's later?? The only thing different seems to be the timing... they are getting them out immediately..
Why whould they complain if the artist agrees?
Is this really "legitimizing" unauthorized piracy, or an attempt to undercut it? If you could be guaranteed to get a "professional quality" soudboard recording of the show (i.e. little crowd noise, no hiss, etc.), why even attempt to sneak in recording equipment of your own? IF this works, it could be another revenue stream for the artists involved (thus sating the RIAA, possibly). Their shows are being recorded anyway, why not release good quality recordings (a la Pearl Jam) and beat the bootleggers at their own game?
With the popularity of bootleg concert CDs, I guess CC will try to see if they can legitimize the process. Not only will the RIAA be concerned, but what about the artists themselves?
And, oh yeah, first post!
-Chris
Now if the RIAA takes action this is going to be some legal battle. The fact Clear Channel has the balls to pull this off is rather encouraging. The RIAA is being practically attacked on all fronts. It's like the fall of Rome all over again.
Bootlegging a concert is NOT a violation of copyright law. In order to violate copyright law, you must copy a work that the author has fixed, and performances are not considered fixation. Fixation must be by the original artists intent, therefore, unauthorized bootlegging dos not constitute fixation by the artist. In fact, the bootlegger might hold the copyright in that recording.
... shall be imprisoned for not more than 5 years or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both, or if the offense is a second or subsequent offense, shall be imprisoned for not more than 10 years or fined in the amount set forth in this title, or both.
There might be some way to argue derivative works here, but a deravitive work requires an initial copyright, and as I said above, without fixation there is no copyright.
There is an anti-bootlegging law, however. It is in the criminal code, Title 18, Section 2319A. It says:
Whoever, without the consent of the performer or performers involved, knowingly and for purposes of commercial advantage or private financial gain fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation
So, for Clear Channel to do this, they must have the permission of the performers. If they have a monopoly over venue, that may not be a problem.
One note, only the recording and trading of bootlegs is criminalized, not the posession.
"In order to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." -- Carl Sagan, Cosmos
1st post !
I am Clear channel, son of Alfred.
I'll bet anyone $5 that this will come to wildly entertaining legal blows and that in the end no one will benefit except the RIAA and Clear Channel! Besides, how many times do you want to listen to the same concert? After all, most performances by most bands sound the same at EVERY SINGLE SHOW.
Dude, where's my packet?
Legalities aside, I think it's a great idea. I have to wonder if the artist gets a cut of it, or does it further line Clear Channel's pockets? They could probably expand it to include concert videos, too. Perhaps they could throw in a couple Marijuana scratch-n-sniff stickers to make the experience complete.
So much for fan taping of these shows. Jeez, squeeze EVERY penny!
"...Well, there's egg and bacon; egg sausage and bacon; egg and spam; egg bacon and spam; egg bacon sausage and spam..."
Personally, I'd love to get a recording of shows I've seen - I've recorded many myself, with bands' permission, and always wished I could get more professional quality recordings with a line off the board.
As for quality of the recording, I doubt that would be an issue. The only disadvantage I'd expect is that the discs are likely to be CD-Rs and not pressed discs... that's alright with me.
-N
I've nothing to say here...
I hope the artist gets a bigger cut from these than they do from studio albums.
word.
It is! FP bitches, lick the snot from my cock & choke on it!
...very complicated to pull off. CDs do not hold that much time, only a little over an hour. The CD could only have the headlining band on it, and they usually play 90 minutes, sometimes a little less, many times a lot more. They'd have to cut a few songs off or split it up into multiple CDs. Having the CDs prepared 5 minutes after the concert sounds impossible. But they could probably be ready to copy the CDs after a customer orders one. So how would they do it? Most likely they'd have to have a feed running directly from the soundboard to a PC, where the whole concert could be stored on the HD. I'm not sure exactly how that would work, but it could probably be done. They'd have to split the songs up into separate files so they could pick and choose which ones to delete. Then when the concert's over they'd have to burn one (or several) master CDs that they can use to make copies of. Maybe they can use one of these. I think those devices even let you make CDs directly from the HD. But it says they can only make 18 discs per hour, so they'd have to bring in several of them. The resulting CDs may have decent sound quality, but would probably be far below what you'd expect from something you buy at the store, since they spent zero time polishing it up for release. If they're planning on recording a Britney Spears show with 40,000 people, they'd have to bring in a shitload of these things or people will be waiting hours for their discs. Could it be done? Probably. But not without compromises in quality, and it certainly wouldn't be ready in 5 minutes, and it wouldn't contain the entire concert.
Karma: Excellent (In Soviet Russia, karma pimps YOU)
I've been pushing a similar model for movies for a while and hearing of it for concerts makes a lot of sense too. It shouldn't be hard to encode the concert in near real time and burn off copies as fast as fans can buy them. A home cd-burner takes at most a minute or two to burn a disc so it shouldn't be a problem to burn them as fast as you can sell them just by giving each clerk their own burner. A teenager in our linux group built a vending-machine style burner a couple years ago and it'd be even better for this job. Punch the button, drop in your money, and get your cd.
I'd suggest $15 each is very high though. If they really want to make this popular they'll sell the cd's for something closer to $5 each.
At what price learning? At what cost wisdom? The price is a man's peace of mind, and the cost is his life.
Oh heck, no. It will sound every iota as good as it would if it has gone through a month of production.
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
What kind of silly question is that?
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
No, the recording process will use the same microphones and digital tapes it always does, I would think. The sound engineering may suffer however.
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
A process is not sentient. Only sentient beings can experience suffering.
This would be good if you were band that couldn't afford a studio, but did a lot of live prfomances
-------
Support Indy Music. Buy
One of the reasons that bootleggers of live recordings don't get too much trouble is the extraordinary lengths that they go to to get the recording. It is just hard as shit to make a clear recording of of a live performance with equipment that you have to smuggle in yourself. This is why, for the most part, the industry doesn't get bent out of shape about it to the degree they do with stealing music with P2P.
For example, I was a huge Cure fan as a kid. I got to know this nice couple from Chapel Hill who I would saw repeatedly at 4 or 5 shows on the "Kiss Me" tour (1987 or so) The wife loved the Cure but she was confined to a wheelchair. Later, while in college in 1989, I saw the Cure at Cameron Indoor Stadium at Duke (no, I didn't go to Duke). There was that same couple. But then I saw the couple in the mid-90s at a mall in Greensboro, NC. Guess what? She was walking along just fine. The wheelchair was a ruse.
The fine print: they were pulling the oldest trick in the book (or the most creative). They had rigged her wheelchair as a portable 16-track recording studio and would get perfect recordings. Why? Handicapped people get prime seats with clear sight (and sound lines). It's good PR. No shit. I am sure that this gig has been pulled by a lot of people, but the point is that this required fuck-all creativity and time to wire up a wheelchair like that.
So why were they doing it? Profit, of course. But they had also cultivated some friendships with artists who appreciated that their recordings were often the only good chroicles of forgotten performances -- some of which are brilliant. I think this may have been a reason why they got a free pass from the bands on pirating. The market for The Cure: Live at Cameron Indoor is pretty slim. BTW, I got about 20 live shots on DAT from them for 100 bucks. That's not a money maker at all.
The point of this is: What will the artists think about this practice? I think that they wouldn't give as much a shit about the mom-and-pops as they would Clear Channel if they don't get a cut from Clear Channel. Odds are: they get their cut.
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
But almost too good to be true. They can probably get a recording out within five minutes but what about 20? Or 100? I guess it depends on how many cd writers they bring along but I seriously doubt they can get the cds out at an acceptable rate at larger concerts.
Holy shit a corporation has a good idea.. Hell must be freezing over.
fp, is it posible after so many years of /. love hate?
The labels will have to pay Clear Channel for the privilege of bootlegging the concerts or Clear Channel won't play their bands on the radio.
I think this is an excellent idea. I like having recordings of the concerts to which I've been, but it can be a difficult to find someone else with a copy, and even more difficult to set up a mutually beneficial trade when I do find someone. Even if I do manage to find someone willing to trade, the recordings are often incredibly low quality. I would gladly pay $15 after a concert for a convenient and high-quality recording.
Of course, I doubt Clear Channel would do this for any of the artists I like, but, still, I like the concept.
>How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music
>pirating?
It's all about money, remember? As long as the right people are getting paid, they won't care.
>Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast?
Read the article, tool. "Multiple CD burners".
>Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?"
It's live, so sure, it's not going to have the polish of a studio CD. They'll probably be mastering straight from the board, though, so the sound quality should be fine - certainly better than the recording done on a mini cassette in the audience.
As to legitimizing one of the oldest forms of piracy, that doesn't make sense because in this case, the musicians are specifically authorizing the recordings, rather than having the recordings made without their consent.
It seems like you're just finding things to gripe and make snarky comments about.
OMFG FIRST POST
I've read that artists make more money from performing live than they from selling CDs. Since most of them (already) have contracts giving an enormous percent of the profit from (all types of) recordings to the label, this is a way for labels to profit more from live performances.
We already have that in Holland. Acda and the Munnik is going to do that. They only hope that not all the people are going to do that.
Hillary Rosen vs. Clear Channel CEO Lowry Mays
The same articles were put upa few hours ago and comments were made too. Now it's reposted. Wahtever...
You sample the sounds, and then rather than instantly teleport the CD directly into the fetid mits of the concert goer, you immediately start pressing them or burning them (mastering can be done throughout the recording if the former)
And people queue after the concert, because they also have to hand over their credit cards, and find their way to the CD booth etc.
'Immediately' is just advertising speak for, "after the show, before you go home".
Although I am not ruling out the use of time machines and teleportation equiptment, both of which I know you can buy the plans for online.
There's this great new technology called Instant Rentals! The movie is in the rental store before it's even finished in the theaters!
dgf ;sfdkg;sdkf ;gskfd ;gk ;dsfglk
sdgfl;kfd
sd
fg
dskfg
I always thought going to concert is about LIVE music, what's the point of getting a cd for it?
Recording quality is beyond the point. Have you ever heard a bootleg tape? The recording quality is not an issue at all. The fans who trade live recordings are the same ones lining up for concert tickets. I think this does a great service for true fans who trade bootleg recordings while currently being intimidated by the RIAA.
For example, every one of Prince's concerts have bootlegs flowing around because he sings them differently. I have been searching for a particular bootleg of Siouxie forever, because it sounded so much more intense than the studio version.
Two minions of hell are going to be fighting it out over this one... I'd buy a ticket and some popcorn to watch the show, but I'm sure Jack Valenti would want some sort of royalty too. Gentlemen, start your lawyers
sounds cool. :) let the riaa sue everyone the can.
The real question, for me at least, is what shows are we talking about here? When I go see the Circulatory System at a small venue, can I get the show? What about Tortoise? Sigur Ros? Sea and Cake? Godspeed you! black emperor? Or are they talking about super blockbuster cookie-cutter concerts where the live recording doesn't mean much? I'll stick with Furthur. I can get the Dead, Pink Floyd, Tortoise, Soul Coughing, old Bob Marley, even Cat Stevens and Talking Heads shows. I can get video footage of shows. And best of all, the software works and I have a pretty high certainty that the musicians approve.
d. Taylor Singletary,
reality technician techra.el
P1st. No really, it's cold here.
many a time I have wanted a copy of the concert I justattended, it would be a huge success, because of the rush of just seeing the show, and all the memories it would bring back a year down the road...
Thanks to file sharing, I purchase more CDs
Thanks to the RIAA, I buy them used...
still no comments?
Another sale is another sale. Bootlegging of live events otherwise unrecorded has not robbed artists, or even, (God forbid!) record companies. It can be argued that it serves to increase their profile. Now we can have bootlegs that might not sound like they've been mixed with a food-processor.
Lucius "in the sky with" Sour
Hands up everyone who refuses to obey orders.
I may be first
It's my guess that Clear Channel has probably made sure it'd be legal for them to make these CDs. I bet the RIAA lets them do it as payback for promoting the concerts, which means more money for RIAA anyway.
Not to look a gift horse in the mouth, but the idea of Clear Channel enter the fight against the RIAA/MPAA (which seems like a logical conclusion of this policy) is a bit like going into battle and finding out the guy running point for you is a serial killer. I'm as big a proponent of sane IP laws as anyone here, but not at the cost of my soul. Although perhaps some how all the shar^H^H^H^H lawyers managed to make this work, some how I doubt it. On the plus side it'll be nice to not have to scour the net looking for bootlegs of the shows I go to! ^_^
How does the fact that a concert promoter licenses the ability to create concert CD's legitimize music pirating. This is no different then them playing the music on stations, or selling the bands other CD's. In every case I'm sure that proper royalties are being paid.
-BrentMuch better than traditional live recordings even if the quality suffers. It's not just a live concert... it's a concert you attended.
No story here. The above sentence describes the entire process. Certainly not "instant" and $15 dollars is not pirating. I personally have never liked live albums and wouldn't even pay $5 for one, much less the 'standard' price of $15.
Religion and science are both 90% crap..but that doesn't negate the other 10%.
Why pay money in the first place?
Many artists already let you record and share their shows. See archive.org. Not instantaneous, but not supporting Clear Channel either...
If they are selling recordings of their own concerts, how exactly is this piracy?
If Clear Channel really are "the owner of every radion station in America" then just what the fuck are the US govt DOING with all that money you give them? Or do Clear Channel just pay 'em off like everyone else?
That was classic intercourse!
Perhaps they got the idea from here:
http://www.livephish.com/
How do they plan on sticking an entire concert on a single CD?
either the quality is total crap, encoded at a horrid bitrate, or its encoded in some format like mp3 or wma. But that's unlikely, in my opinion, because I don't think the majority of consumers would like that.
Actually, most artists own the rights to performances (such as live shows), so the RIAA does not enter the picture.
do you think they record the live music for dvd releases silly billy, in digital clarity!
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
As for the sound quality:
To quote Robert Fripp, talking of the B'Boom official bootleg of '94:
In any instance, at least the production of the music is already paid for by the ticket sales.
As for mass-pressing the CDs to order, well, I really don't know how they're going to manage that...
As for the legality of it, well, its dependent on the artists relationship with the record label. Some labels hold to their exclusive rights (even as the same label would never release a live album since live albums became "kiss of death" to groups like Heart, INXS, and Poison (though its partially coincidental, as the same year as those live albums were released, Nirvana showed up and changed the whole pop-rock music genre). Anyways, the label would have to take a cut, likely.
As for providing this technology to bands NOT on the majors, its a significant achievement. Not that I want CC's hands in it, per se, but combine this with mp3.com, and you have an alliance that could finally bring enough promotion to a group to allow them some significant success without signing a slave-labor faust contract to a label.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
what is happening to the slashdot servers?
They must be using a group of fast burners. 1000 fans will not want to wait 5 minutes to get a cd considering thats 5000 minutes. Other than that, seems like a good idea, that would be easy to do.
Concert merchandise is an important source of revenue for most bands--especially smallish indie bands (e.g. Sleater-Kinney).
....
For emotional reasons, people spend more money at concerts than they would elsewhere because they want 'authentic' mementoes. (Remember how in high school you'd nonchalantly, but with secret pride, wear your shirt the next day to show your coolnes.) Last concerts I've been to, the t-shirts and cd's seemed overpriced,
but folks still lined up for them.
From a 'purely rational' standpoint, it might not make sense to get the recording. i.e. it might not be technically/acoustically poor, a better concert might occur a few days later and you could probably download that...but hey you'd have immediately own a 'rare' cover (it seems like most concerts have one of these) and maybe hear yourself cough in the background.
It's nice to see the music industry think of new products which appeal to emotions... I'd like to see them continue in this line and bring back cover art, picture discs, and limited edition cd's
Instantaneous live concert CDs isn't piracy or "bootlegging". Furthermore, even Metallica, at the forefront of the RIAA backed anti-mp3 argument endorsed bootlegging. It's just a creative way of distributing soundboard recordings (Which most every concert has and subsequently also ends up on the Internet). Hats off to them.
s200.org - visit it (me), love it (me).
Is it piracy to record concerts you attend?
Even if you just do it with a cheap casette recorder?
Who doesnt want a live recording of the concert they just saw? This is a good opportunity for the bands/producers who say P2P networking is killing their proffits.
Presumably (and in fact hinted by the word 'official'), to actually be able to do this - at least at the logistical level - you would need to have full consent of the artists / labels concerned... in other words, the CD sales would contribute to the artists / labels income, and they would in fact be *legal*...
Any ability to put out a legal CD of a concert - particularly in such a short time frame - will reduce the likelihood of anyone making an illegal recording...
And whilst there may be piracy of the official concert CD, which will undoubtedly incur the wrath of the RIAA, there will presumably be sufficient revenue generated to make it worthwhile...
Why is it I see this fraught with problems! Who is going to record the concert, will this sound like a slick, polished product or sound like it was recorded in a bucket? I do not see how they are going to do this without at least some testing not ony if they can do this quickly, but is the sound quality "up to speed". Is the band going to even allow this place without their "cut" of the money? Some bands are pretty picky about which shows get recorded for live "albums". And of course there is the RIAA and I am sure they are going to have their "hand out" for a chunk of the money if they allow it to happen!
What's next? Jack Valenti gets fired?
i'm concerned what this might do to bootleggers. It's great to have recordings of shows, expecially ones you've been to. But now if you can actually buy them, there is a definite commerical incentive to stop recording and trading by fans.
i expect that if there are efforts to label "unoffical" bootleg trading as piracy(and make real efforts to stop it), there's not going to be a distinction between older stuff that wasn't available at the show and the newer shows. Probably just a blanket statement that all "unoffical" bootlegs are bad. There was no offical recording of the Opeth show i was at a few weeks ago, should i be branded a criminal for distributing the recording i made simply because on the NEXT tour people will be able to buy recordings of shows?
i have no idea how the RIAA would react, they may love the idea and see it as a great way to make money. i would hope though, if this thing ever actually happens, that a large portion of the sales would go to the artist. i could see it as ever more reason for putting on a great show.
i have to say $15 seems high especially given the ticket cost and how little effort they'd actually have to put into the recording process.
And please don't call taping and trading shows piracy. It isn't the same as ripping and sharing actual albums. (whether or not you think that should be called piracy isn't the point, that's what people think of when hearing the term) Associating bootlegging with that is really not fair to those of us who do it for a genuine love of the music. We already have enough image problems from idiots who think we keep stills in our basements.
Where are all the reactions that I always read under every article??
These guys and their monopoly on radio broadcasting in the US has turned radio there in a 100% commercial, TOP-10-hits-only desert. I know I will not be buying anything from them in the forseable future.
What do you know about World Politic? Find out in this quiz
Please explain how concert taping is a form of pirating. I fail to see it that way. Most artists are either in favor of, or indifferent to, taping. As long as no money is changing hands, most artists don't mind the extra publicity and exposure. The people who trade tapes are the band's most loyal fans, the ones who've been to multiple shows on every tour for the past 20 years. And this submitter has the nerve to call them pirates. It's already an awful fucking word for copying music, but I have never heard someone call tape trading the oldest form of piracy. Piracy is when someone tries to sell bootlegs at a flea market, not when a loyal fan trades an old favorite for a show he just saw.
I hope this new service can coexist with taping. It is up to the bands and promoters to realize that allowing taping is a good move, even if they could make some cash from this Clear Channel instant CD service.
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
Obviously the RIAA member record companies will have to consent and will be recieving royalties for these CD's. They own the songs (and the artists' souls) afterall. If Clear Channel were to try to do this without a contract from the labels, they would certainly be sued. I wouldn't be surpised to see the record companies bail on this deal though. We all know how open minded the major labels are towards creating new products, especially products people actually want. I'm sure they'll find some reason to be afraid of this.
Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?
As for the quality of the recordings, they won't be great but they don't need to be. They will not be able to hold a candle to studio recordings or label released live albums. You just can't mix and master a recording in realtime and reach the quality level of a recording that has been mixed and mastered over the course of months. (Maybe this is what the major labels will find to be scared of). However, somebody buying this recording isn't looking for sound quality. They're looking to have a memento of a show they were at. They can play it for their friends and say "I was there". There is already a thriving underground bootleg market in this country for recordings of live shows. Many of these reocordings sound horrible, sometimes made with nothing more than a built in mic on a minidisc player or cassette walkman... People still want them and these will certainly sound better than those.
People have been asking the major labels for this for years and they've never delivered on it. It will be interesting to see what happens.
What can I say. That is the outcome. BONUS!!!
If you listen real close you can hear me whistle during the pause between songs.....shhhhh....THERE IT IS! THATS ME!!! WOOHOO!
Uhhhh, yeah, thath dithgustin. [The lady's man]
I'd probably pay $20 for it, too.
Wow, I am in disbelief. Two posts this morning and nobody has replied to them, and one of them concerns the RIAA!!?.
In short, nothing to see here, just move along.
Too bad Clear Channel isn't likely to sponsor concerts by bands I actually give a shit about.
Now that I think of it, they'll be sponsoring "acts" rather than bands. Performers with nameless backup musicians, rather than groups with musicians whose names are known.
I think $15 is a little excessive, considering for a Clear Channel concert you're already paying around $100 a ticket (from what I've read).
As to the "what does the RIAA think of this" quesiton, I'm sure the licensing and fees are already part of this. The RIAA is probably just trying to figure out how to get them to cripple these "instant" concert CDs...
"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I'm fucked."; ~ Donald J. Trump
Pearl Jam announced a few months ago that for their world tour that's about to begin this month, they'll be putting a live CD of a show on sale within a week of the show. Better yet, if you order via their website, you have the opportunity to download the unmastered MP3 version of the show the day after each show. For people that didn't already know, Pearl Jam released a concert CD for each show of their last show, around $10 from their website IIRC. Very interesting to note that if you go to Epicrecords.com, they are advertising this Pearl Jam deal in big graphics on their front page. FYI, Epic Records is a division of the evil Sony, one of the most vocal RIAA members.
I have wanted a service like this for years. Musical stylings vary from concert to concert and it would be great to be able to say, yeah, I was at THAT concert, just listen to that awsome lick!
A preposition is a terrible thing to end a sentence with.
if you go to http://www.livephish.com you can get a copy of the concert in .mp3 or .shn (loss-less compressed sound format) form for $10 or $15 respectively. Pretty good deal for 3 CDs worth of music if you like 20 minute long random jammings that sometimes includes vaccum cleaners as an added instrutment. They just started this since they got back together. Oh and there is no copy security feature to the mp3s or shns, they go by entirely by an honor system. Definitely a cool feature for those who want to grab the concert they attended.
For huge concerts, it often takes 30 minutes from when the final note of the encore is done to when you can actually get to the exit of the arena, if not longer.
If I can burn a CD in 3 minutes, then you've got plenty of time for duplication. The real issue is that your live concert will have to be equivalent to the house mix (which might not sound great on your home stereo).
I think the real issue would be a lack of market. If a pop act like Britney plays the same set every night, with a ton of pre-recorded tracks and effects, do fans care that they are getting "their" concert?
Improvisational bands and jam bands, by definition having a different show every night, would probably be more successful. See livephish.com for an example.
Great. Now the guy next to me will be coughing during a quiet section of the performance, just so he can say "hey, that's me" when he plays the concert CD for his friends.
... create the CDs before the show. If a band is on a Clear Channel station, chances are it's yet another Britney or Eminem or Linkin Park. How many of these "artists" actually perform live shows? They're lip-synching to a CD already so why not make that CD available to concert goers?
Plus who will mix it so it sounds right on the cd? Recordings sound way different than the live show. Will the price be hidious as well?
Pearl Jam did something like this, although not instant, on their 2000 tour and with their current tour. They allow fans to record their concerts, ask them to send in a copy and go through and mix the highest quality tapes...releasing a double CD for the price of one a few weeks later. All of the live 'bootleg' CDs I've heard were excellent quality. But I really don't see that company burning a few hundred, or thousand, CDs by the time concert goers reach the exit.
sadf
Hail Eris!
what up yo :P why u a sax0r he!
dont steal music itz ad fr you karme 0d000d
Unless they've got very, very fast burners in the back with pre-labeled discs, this seems kinda hard to do "moments after" the concert.
Besides, why not just enjoy the memories you just gained from the concert? Do you really need to reminisce about something that just happened a moment ago?
Conglom-O: We Own You (TM).
owner of every radio station in America
Now, that says a lot about freedom of speech.
- Matthieu
I'm assuming that the radio station would be paying the rights for the broadcast and part of that arrangement would be recording rights.
I suspect the AFM will probably have something to say about this more than the RIAA seeing as musicians are paid a different rate when they are recorded than a live performance.
"Also, what kind of equipment will have to be used to produce these so fast? Will the recording process suffer due to the hurry?"
They'll probably have a bank of CD-recorders. It would cost an insane amount of money. But if it worked, they'd be able to recoup the loss and start profiting within a relatively small amount of time.
Oh yeah, FP!
..oh, and first post too, by the way.
maybe it's just micheal? Who knows.
because its true
C'mon, why do submitters feel compelled to throw baseless incendiary quips into their story submissions, and why do /. editors always fall for them?
This service does not legitimize piracy any more than a band providing a MP3 on their own website legitimizes piracy.
ClearChannel will have the recording and distribution rights to the concert, what they do with those rights is their business.
I for one am looking forward to this service, I think it's an interesting idea.
As for quality: this will come from the sound equipment straight to the recording device, and they will stamp out CDs. Much better than a crappy hand-held cassette-recorder can do. Yes, the quality will not be as good as a studio album, but you want the live album, right?
How about, say, Phish - who sell their own CDs of concerts at LivePhish.com?
The audio might not be as slick as a studio-produced album, but then again, the "live" albums seldom are.
For those bands that can put on a serious concert, I would think the CD sales would be very good. Unless of course, they manage to dumb-down the product with crippleware or Looney-Tunes pricing.
I don't know that live concert taping really falls under the RIAA's jurisdiction. The music that is made live is not exactly the same as the copyrighted material.
Someone with more knoledge of copyrights should take it from here...
shoutouts to ag
the byproduct of years of oppression by the white man
Why is it I see this fraught with problems! First who are they going to get to record the concerts and what is the sound quality going to be like, a polished professional product, or sound like it was recorded in a bucket? Is the bands going to even allow this to take place? Some bands are pretty selective as to which concerts they perform are recorded for release. Then comes the money issue, how much does the band get, the recording studio, the RIAA (if they allow this to take place), and how much does ClearChannel expect to make? It is long on promise and short on details.
It's been almost three hours and no posts!?! ...is this slashdot?...
I guess one to many people got a little wasted last night.
good times.
The article did say the CD's will be sold to concert-goers, so one could only assume that part of the price would be royalties for the artist.
Iff (that's "if and only if") the band gets its fair share of the "4. Profit!", then I fail to see any problem.
Of course, the quality of the burnt CDs is probably reason enough to go home and rip the tracks immediately. Not like the good old stable cassette. What? You say there's actually audible frequencies over 14 kHz?
"Stop failing the Turing test!" -- Dilbert
Think, McFly: If it's an official recording, then it is not pirating, now is it?
...is going on?????
We call it, instant CD release. The CD comes out before it's even finished production.
What are we listening to?
What we are listening to, is what's happening now.
What happened to then?
We missed it.
When?
Just now.
When will now be then?
Soon.
With apologies to Mel Brooks and the cast of Spaceballs.
"Da ist ein Technölüst in mein Unterpanten!"
Now not only will I be able to freely download every album for every artist that I have ever wanted in seconds. I will be able to download all of their live shows to boot? Technology is grand!
I think it's wonderful that ClearChannel is using technology to provide a better experience to the concert buyer. It's somewhat ironic as CC is in bed with the RIAA as far as payola goes, but this just goes to prove that not everyone is "in on" the conspiracy. Innovation can still happen, and I for one am proud of them.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
I'm still not seeing *any* comments for the first 3 stories (this being the top one)...waaaaaaah, i want my /.!!
Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored. - Aldous Huxley
Right. Clear Channel is going to record the concerts and sell the CD's and pay nothing whatsoever to the publishers. Not.
How is this music piracy if the company that is paying for the performance is the one selling the CD? Is paying money to the RIAA mandatory?
1) What % will the artist get?
...Clear Channel?! Was the concert prerecorded?
2) Will they ever include Video?
3) Here today, gone tomorrow...are they the James Bond dissapearing Cds?
4) wtf
5) New Music? probably not.
I'd like to have answers, but like the article's writer, I have no more information.
the entire point of the riaa is to control distribution channels. personally, i love live music recordings. if a band needs to be remixed to make them sound good, then they are probably better off never touring. with high speed duping technology and feeds direct from the mixing board, the quality of the recording should match the quality of the event.
:)
i can't wait for my first concert recording
I just don't have the heart this early in the morning.
I would imagine they own the rights to the *shows*, much as king biscuit owns their shows, regardless of who is playing..
Some sort of agreement beforehand thing.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
All you really need to do this is to split each of the signals, run it to a seperate sound board, the output of which feeds either a computer or stand alone CD recorder. Then you just get a huge pile of cd-r media and racks of cd duplicators...[near] instant copies. Not hard and can be done rather cheaply -- the biggest cost would probably be the duplicators -- we've got a 1x7 that runs at 24x that cost over a grand, as I recall -- you could easily get 20 or 30 thousand in duplicators.
How will the RIAA react to this, seeing as this is legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music pirating?
First of all, you are paying for the recording. Obviously the RIAA is going to insist on taking a cut.
Second, this is no more legitimizing piracy than buying a "Live" album (which usually suck anyway).
who chooses what gets left out - either in concerts that are too long or just what non-song material is cut out?
what about shows that are far longer than one cd
do people really want to wait - sure the first people may get one quickly, but if 40k want it, there's just no way that's happening fast
I would think many artists would object to not having control over the quality and selection - or would simply object to it period (what if they are planning a live album off the tour)
check out www.livephish.com. You get phish shows pretty darn quickly after the show ends.
:)
I'll pick a live phish show over a "live" brittney spears show any day.
-john
Slashdot: you'll not find a more wretched collection of villainy and disreputable types...
Would it be pirating? One can safely assume the Clear Channel would obtain the necessary releases from the band and or thier management.
This is nothing more than the logical growth of what Phish is pioneering with thier "Live Phish". Legit audience recording were on the circuit with 24 hrs of the NYE show. Assuming one had all the right gear in place, producing high quality copies of the show minutes after its completion would be a snap.
Good roadies have been doing this for ages! all you need is a good digital multitrack and a stack o scsi cdburners...
I am afraid, very afraid... This post has been left uncommented for several hours now. Did everybody leave the planet while I was sleeping? And if so, why do I have to stay when even the trolls can go?
"bootlegging" is when the concert taper *SELLS* the recording.
most people who tape live shows do so under the approval of the band and for *TRADING* purposes only.
I do agree that room recording with mics in general is better quality than a straight board feed
the history of the world
What about Hispanic Broadcasting? They own a few radio stations.
I think that $15 is a bit too much considering the quality and the fact that you have already paid for that music. Also, all you're getting for your money is a cdr. They could a least throw in a poster or t-shirt.
;-)
On the other hand, since getting live recordings is not easy in file-sharing networks, it might just work, especially if you go to the concert with a couple of friends and split the cost between you
Sales can also vary wildly depending on how well the band played. If the people love the concert they will probably pay to get to keep the music, even though they might regret it later. Think impulse-buying at the extreme.
Assuming a more reasonable price and half-decent quality, this is something I'm looking forward to.
Pearl Jam has down this(ok, the cds arent available AT the show) for years.
Phish is now releasing each concert online no more than 2 days after a show in mp3($10.95) and shn($12.95) formats(shn is a lossless compression of a wav/aiff file that can be expanded to its original format)
other bands havea "on-the-road" series similar tothe Pearl Jam format with cds shipping a week after the show.
nothing new here
the history of the world
Any band can cover any song they want in concert, and I think this holds for CD release as well. Ever notice how most cover songs don't have the lyrics printed in the accompanying liner notes? That's because it's okay to copy a performance of a song by performing it yourself, but it's not okay to copy the printed lyrics. But IANAL, so feel free to correct me if what I've heard is wrong.
Actually, Phish just started doing this. I recently downloaded three shows I saw within 48 hours of seeing them. They were available in MP3 for $9.95 per show, or in Shorten (SHN) format for $12.95. They place no crippling software restrictions on the files, so you're free to make archive copies, burn them to CD, etc.
Plus, offering the lossless Shorten format (along with MD5 checksums) allows hard-core fans to be sure they have a perfect copy of the show.
Phish has always allowed taping at their shows (go ahead, say it, "Just like the Grateful Dead"), but formerly forbidden trading of audience copies of officially released shows, but with the introduction of livephish.com, you can now trade ANY audience copy freely.
Really, this is the way this sort of thing needs to be done. After listening to my first pristine, mastered soundboard copy, I had no problem forking over the $12.95!
-phil
have you been seen on slash?
I thinks it's a great idea, I know I would pay the 15$ requied to get my hands on one of these.
As for the sound quality of the said recording; I'm not too scared about it. The sound engineers only have to use one of the monitoring outputs from the sound board, apply some mastering tools (Multiband Compressor, EQ, etc..) and put it straight on CD. It's really nothing spectacular from a technical point of view, but really just a good merchandising idea.
To be an authentic concert CD, it should shrink down to one tenth its normal size the first time you put it in a player.
I was about to napalm ClearChannel's headquarters when this came up. So do we love them or hate them now? Perhaps I'll just bomb them with something less deadly like my collection of AOL CDs.
You pay to get into the concert to listen to it, and then you pay *again* to take a CD home.
Sounds like double profit to me :P
smash.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
piracy is counterfieting
Here's how they'll run this -- since they are doing these as one-offs (ie. burning each one individually), it's VERY VERY easy for them to encode a serial number into the music.
If they limit purchases to credit card or bank card, and store that data, as soon as the music shows up pirated, they know the exact source.
The RIAA will love this.
Clear Channel (owner of every radio station in America)
While I realize this is an exaggeration, it should be noted that Clear Channel doesn't really own every radio station in America. Viacom/Infinity owns quite a few, as well as Disney/ABC. There are also at least a few independent stations still out there.
rooooar
If the CD is available immediately, then I suspect that the P2P download is available very soon afterwards.
The price of freedom is eternal litigation.
since all the instruments and band members are mic'd and premixed for amplification, just split the signal before it goes to the amps. one signal goes and gets amped, and fed into the house, the other goes to a mixdown board and is mastered on teh fly.
you can do this with simple mixing boards that have more than one out. we've done this many times, of course with a slower standalone cd-burner, so the "live" cd's are available as we make them, on demand.
You just make the recording before the concert.
Keep your packets off my GNU/Girlfriend!
Also on sale will be T-shirts that say:
FUCK ALBANIA
and
FUCK RIAA
Sorry, you have to have seen Wag The Dog for this to be amusing.
That's because it's okay to copy a performance of a song by performing it yourself
Only if the band pays for a compulsory license that costs about eight cents per song per copy.
Heck, the band may have to pay another songwriter even if a band member writes the songs.
Will I retire or break 10K?
* rejected (15)
But anyway, I think there's nothing interesting in any of them. Maybe that invisible technology made public a few days ago by that japanese professor is not cool enough to be at Slashdot.
If you can read this, thank an english teacher.
I did a consulting gig with ClearChannel a few years ago and a fellow consultant suggested this to them then. There are many reasons this is a good idea:
1) Artists own their own performances. This is the reason why Record Labels don't really make money off of concerts. It is up to them and their artist representation as to what they do with their recordings of them.
2) CDs distributed at street-level and concerts are an effective form of promotion - one that is very effective. . . The Wu-Tang Clan and The Grateful Dead know this cold and they did great even though they NEVER got airplay. (CCU is diluting their radio prowess a bit here - but don't thell them that).
3) Music has a great "hook" into your memory. How many times have you heard a piece of music and it reminded you of some past situation when you heard it? How great would it be to have the EXACT rendition of that concert and the good time your friends had? Bill Graham (the famous San Fran concert promoter) both understood this and encouraged it.
4) If you love a band (say RadioHead), and you go to more than one of their concerts (say MSG and Philly Spectrum), wouldn't you like to buy them both if they were unique experiences? How about a digital season's pass (over the web) to ALL of their concerts? (with video). Would you pay the equivalent of a box-set to have that kind of access? I would. . . most people would for their favorite band (if they have the coin).
The sky is the limit with these opportunities and there isn't much that the RIAA can do about it. This is the kind of liberation tha technology makes possible. . . There is more value because there is more PRODUCT. There is more product, because there is more access to the ARTIST. Let's hope this catches on before the Label's start asking for exclusive rights to concerts and concert-proceeds.
The actual accounting (also reported in countless previous links) means that after the studio's self-declared expenses are deducted, the band not only rarely makes much beyond the initial advance, but often ends up owing the studio money on paper. This can lock them in, forcing them to sign for additional albums (to have the debt forgiven) and making it hard to switch labels.
I could enumerate many more abuses, but I'm sure others will -- if they're not sick of doing so.
NOW COMES THE EVIL PART
The studios (or RIAA) don't have any right to the music the musicians play in concert, unless there is a specific concert recording clause. This was the meat on the musician's table. but now the largest promoter in the nation will be making it a term of their contracts that bands must surrender most rights to the music in their precious live performances. Note: Clear Channel never said a word about paying artists. It's be a condition of the concert: "If you don't sign over the rights, you don't play in this town". [We've also seen plenty of articles on the strong-arm methods Clear Channel has used to build and enforce precisely this sort of monopoly.
This won't improve anything for most bands. It only applies to the known successes where Clear Channel expects to make a profit; the ones where CC is already profiting as the concert promoter. If Clear Channel didn't book you for a concert or performance, don't expect their audio truck.
In short: they are reaching deeper into the artist's pockets -- and removing (coopting) a potential source of revenue for the band itself. The recording industry was a historical artifact, like buggy whip makers. It gained its stranglehold because 100 years ago, musicians could not afford studio equipment. Now they can, so the strangle hold much be maintained in other ways.
This is a coerced corporate seizure of the band's rights to the proceeds of their own live *performances* (concerts, shows, etc.) which had been the last bastion of the musician. They are doing this preemptively, because it's now a small step from the club/concert audio feed to a burned CD -- and right now sales of such CDs could well belong to the musician, if the corporations are not careful!
Are they going to leave most of it out, sell a multi-cd set, or give you one CD with mp3/oggs?
Even if they couldn't have enough copies to sell the whole show to everyone, they could give you the first set, and then mail you the rest. People don't want to stick around afterward anyways.
Oh the irony when the bands who sell the most CDs this way are the Boob Synced Boys whose live CDs will sound EXACTLY like thier studio albums.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
Expect to hear those "concert CDs" promoted on the air.
The Clear Channel motto: How many ways has Clear Channel reached you today?
I don't think so.
It really depends on what the band wants. Live recordings are the final frontier of this stuff. Personally, I would reject any band that were strictly against live recordings. It would tell me that they did not stand behind their live music...and I have no use for that.
Mind you, most tapers and fans of live recordings including myself have no problem when artists request that specific shows remain under wraps. (For upcoming release). It really is a nice community.
Looking at the bus schedule next to my computer, I've got till about 2:30 untill I need to catch the bus going to my favorate non-Clearchannel owned radio station.
There are some great non-clearchannel owned stations. Ours, in fact a highschool one, has been widly renown throughout the music industry as setting the trends in Dance music. They broke hits such as Mark Morrison's Return of the Mack, Aqua's Barbie Girl (sorry), and White Town's Your Woman.
The fact is, when you find a really good non-commercial music station like this one it is usualy much better then clear-channel crap. Do you want a DJ that could live down the street from you, or one that couldn't pronounce your town's name if his life depended on it sitting in a big office in NYC?
Posting annon. to protect my secret identity...
This has been going on since 12/31/02 with Phish. They started by releasing all of their New Year's run (Madison Square Garden 12/31, Hampton Coliseum 1/02 - 1/04) about two days after the show. The copies weren't re-mixed, it was just the soundboard guy's mix of the shows. Of course, Phish makes you pay for it, but it's much less money than a CD costs - the three-cd shows run around $13. They're also going to release their entire winter tour in the same fashion. Fans are excited about it, and I think it's definitely a step in the right direction, a way to have further control of their own "intellectual property," however false I believe that term to be. livephish.com
-- "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" --Voltaire
so not all bands will have to limit their playing time to 80 minutes so it all fits on one CD.
At today's concert prices?!
Forget it. If I'm paying that much, the concert better be as long as a Wagner opera!
My interests on music lately have tended towards full-show live music by a few bands. Recently, as featured here, Phish started their Live Phish Downloads series. I ended up ordering the New Year's Eve run, and those were usually available within 24 hours of the show, but they were so huge that downloading them was a minor hassle.
.au/.jp tour bootlegs will be sold online, but a few hours after the show, they will also be making those concerts available for download to those who purchased the CD (which would be available about a week or so later).
Now Pearl Jam is expanding their already ridiculously large live bootleg series with the upcoming Riot Act tour. The
But this is exactly what I've wanted in all of my concert-goings. While I have some reservations since it's got the Clear Channel name attached to it, I've been to a few concerts that were just mindblowingly good and wished I could have a CD of it to listen to again the next morning. I'd definitely go for something like this.
I am not Herbert.
It is obvliuos this plan would include the proper royalties to all parties concerened. Therefore this is NOT piracy, instead it is legitimate marketing of a product. Does it disturb you slashdotteres because they would, OH MY GOSH, dare to charge for the recording?
Wow.
Now Clear Channel not only owns every radio station in the country, they now own and control every venue that a performer could possibly play before an audience at.
You fellows live in an interesting fantasy world.
I can go home from a concert and within about 3 or so hours usually have a copy of that concert uploaded for file sharing onto my network (if its a concert within a group of bands that allow sharing).
I'd rather keep Clear Channel's grimy paws off my favorite band's music, and I'm sure that the band I work with will keep going the fan route. Much more fun that way.
Ethan
LivePhish.com
http://www.askthevoid.com
I was really asking more "rhetorical" questions... as a tape trader, I have been involved in this "type" of thing before, and the fact that a giant corporation wants to capitalize off fans even more kind of agitates me. In tape trader circles, no one sells music. It's always traded for other shows, or for blank media. By "legitimize" I guess I maybe should have been more clear... Umm.. Artists in the past that have not supported tape trading will be more likely than artists that support it to use this service. Usually there is some weak claim as to why they do not support trading... I do not see DMB or Phish starting to sell official CD's of the show after the show... They know it's an integral part of their community of fans to tape, and trade, shows.
Fans shouldn't appreciate this, either. If you want a show, tape it yourself.
http://cassettefetish.com
Does anyone actually think that the RIAA would have any kind of problem with this? I think it's safe to say that they will get a cut of the massively overpriced live CDs. It also stands to reason that DRM may be a part of the equation, or at the very least, a lot of bitching about live CDs popping up all over P2P. Hell, I can see a lot of users bitching about the networks being flooded with dozens of different live shows.
On the other hand, I like the idea. Mainly because I had it about two years ago, but couldn't afford the hardware. Now watch them patent it. Assclowns.
Don't become a regular here -- you will become retarded.
I must live in the only market that doesn't have a a radio station owned by Clearchannel.
Not that I listen to the radio much anyway.
rejected (14) accepted (0)
Is there a psycological term related to getting your stories rejected on slashdot?
Originality? Try submitting dupes!
Little less Competition, a little more action..
All this capitalism aint satisfaction in me.
There's gonna be a million live versions of every song on Kazaa now...
It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds. - Captain Hammer
umm.. I'm pretty sure quality will suffer:
a> churning out cd's at any rate higher than 1X makes errors! PLUS:
b> A live mix is not the ideal way to get any kind of decent mix! Often, the vocals are super-loud and the mixes are inconsistent!
And for the RIAA thing, there are a TON of issues with this! there are mechanical licenses, royalties to all the musicians.. blah blah...
K, pardner?
--Nick
http://cassettefetish.com
Clear channel owns about half of the stations. If they don't promote/play bands that don't play along, the bands may feel there is no choice. If the band gets a cut I see no problem with this, but if they don't then it's pretty nasty, imho. ...
I would suck to loose almost half your fans because you didn't like somebody taking some profit off your only opportunity to make some ching. After all, most profits are from T-Shirts, and if CD's take sales from shirts
We should petition the RIAA to lay everyone off and close its doors for good.
Clear Channel is a dynamic distribution channel. What happens when they decide to start acting more like a label and less like a promotional wing of labels?
I see the RIAA has adoctrinated most of the people to believe otherwise.
Fuck RIAA!
I don't see why the RIAA would care. Money is still being collected. I would bet that a larger percentage of the profit is now going to the band and their people as they are doing all the work to produce the CD. As far as the "legitimizing one of the oldest forms of music piracy" statement goes, ???. Purchasing music isn't piracy.
Pearl Jam released their entire 2000 Europe / US tour. It was available a few months after the tour ended, not at the end of the night. This time around, they're making the show available the next day to download then you get a CD in the mail a week or so later. Fan club members pay less. Not only that (I can't remember where I read it, somewhere on the band's site) they don't mind if you share with your friends. I would hope every band would embrace this philosophy.
I see my shadow changing, stretching up and over me...
Piracy - copying without paying the proper licensing fees.
Clearchannel will be selling CD's. These CD's will in all likelyhood be legal. How? Clearchannel will pay the proper mechanical and songwrighting licensing fees to the responsible publishing companies, and the recordings will be legal.
The RIAA purpose is primarily to ensure payment of royalties to it's members. Clearchannel as a music label will probably join the RIAA! And the CD's will only be sold where the proper contracts with the artist and artist's label can be acquired.
Clear Channel owns every radio station? I've never heard of Clear Channel, and none of the stations I listen to are owned by Clear Channel. What/where is this Leviathan that you speak of?
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
However, bands would have to worry about concert sales.
:-P)
No more than sales of live albums or live broadcasts hurt concert sales, I think. There's a difference between listening to a live album, seeing it on a broadcast, and seeing it LIVE and IN PERSON.
It's like the diff. between watching the hockey game on TV and actually showing up at Joe Louis Arena. (Little plug for my fav team for those in the know...
My journal has hot
Even all the PBS sations?
How about XLNC1?
That is quite a bad situation indeed. You do get quite a bit more choice than us in Britain though; here in most smaller cities you get about 5 FM channels, not enough to cater to nearly every demographics out there.
:p)
3 pop channels, 1 classical/jazz and 1 news... I could be wrong, I don't even listen to radios anymore (no car
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
As a fan of live music and as someone who has a fair knowledge of the music industry, I think it is an EXCELLENT idea.
If I knew that the artist was getting a large percentage of the proceeds, I know I would by a cd of any good concert I attended just as a way to show my appreciation as well as have a great keepsake.
I'd be willing to bet that if they burned you a mix CD of the setlist, no one would be able to tell the difference (except for the in-between song jibber jabber). If anything, this is going to spell the end of 80+ minute concerts and encores, as the limits of compact disc space are reached.
why not make a little money off of something that people do anyway. If you don't know what I'm talking about its called Bootlegging.
Howard Jones is already doing this in the UK. I went to a concert last year and picked up a CD about 45 minutes after the gig, he even signed it all for 10UKP. The audio comes straight from the mixing desk and the cd's get burned and printed backstage.
I understand that everyone wants to rip on the RIAA at every available opportunity, however the record labels only own the copyrights to the *recordings* of songs, not the to the the music and lyrics.
Companies in the NMPA own the publishing rights to most commercial music. The publishing rights are compulsory, meaning you don't need explicit permission to record your own version of the song, you just have to pay for it.
A choice of masters is not freedom
"It only has to last long enough for people to get it home to their Mac"
Except that hardly anyone has Macs. Well, hardly anyone anyway. What you said is like "they give out Beta videotapes so everyone can go home and put it in their Sony Betamax".
There's not much the RIAA can do about this. Not like they care, they're in bed with Clear Channel anyway. For the few of you out there who don't know, Clear Channel basically owns half the radio stations in every city in the US over 200,000 people. They also own pretty much all the large concert promoters (after having bought SFX entertainment a few years ago.) They're actually worse than the RIAA; as the RIAA wouldn't really be as effective without a buyable mouthpiece like Clear Channel. Ever wonder why every radio station in the US sounds the same? Because they are; Clear Channel ships out regional playlists and formulaicly hires DJs with similar on-air personalities.
in the USA.
"You fellows live in an interesting fantasy world."
We live in the United States which is the ultimate fantasy world.
War is necrophilia.
Until I read this, I had no idea Michael was a cocksucker! I did, however, know that /. is based on some shitty Perl code that Taco kludges together between masturbating to Sailor Moon episodes.
I can only imagine that the RIAA would squash this one, since traditionally, there would be all sorts of copyright issues here. Royalties go to the Label, Producer, Studio, Artists, RIAA, and who knows who else.
I'm not a music lawyer or anything, but I just took some lectures on this, but still I'm not positive "Royalties" are as big as you think. As I understand it, the only royalties involved in this case would be the mechanical rights royalties (7.99 cents per song per CD copy) to the publisher*. So ten songs? About $0.79 cents per CD in royalties goes to the song publisher. You can add up all those cents and cut a single check to the Harry Fox agency, which makes the money gets to the right publisher(s). The other costs involved? Ticket sales, merchandise, and the part of the CD price that costs more than $0.79.
*Music publishers own "stables" of songs. They buy the copyrights for these songs from songwriters. Bands then pay publishers for the rights to sell song performances! Multiple bands can perform the same song, and companies like Harry Fox make sure the publisher gets the dues from them all. I _think_ that once a song has been performed publically, anyone else can "cover" that song as long as they pay the publisher. I don't know if the publisher can tell others they may not perform the copyrighted work as long as they pay. I think music copyright only gives you the right to be paid when your work is performed, not Nazi-like control of who may not perform your song and even sell performances of it.
As such, it's really none of the RIAA's business to step in to this. It's up to the band if they want to sell mechanical copies of their live performances. One reason they might not want to is that it would compete with shrink-wrapped albums being sold in stores by their label, if they have one. Smaller bands not in thrall to a label could sell such live copies for only the costs of mechanical royalties, live engineering, and CD Duplication. This could be really good for small bands making cover albums! All they need to do is check out www.harryfox.com to make sure they are square on mechanical royalties.
Oh BTW, it's quite likely that the big labels and RIAA would be happy to use FUD and intimidation to make it seem like this kind of live recording is somehow evil, black-bearded priacy.
That's kindof a cool idea. I might be interested in buying a CD if the concert was good. But I'm sorry, I'm not paying $15 for a piece of plastic and some digital signals that were recorded over a couple hours time, especially considering that I already paid to hear it. I'd be happy to pay the cost of the media, a fair bit of the equipment cost, and a fair bit of someones time to sit and watch the burners run, plus a hefty mark up. $5 seems more than generous.
concerts are where musicians make most of their money. the recording industry should embrace and extend damn it!
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
The RIAA is a legal entity, and it would not be hard for them to stretch a little farther.
And yes, the easiest way to support the artist is to go to their concert. Buying a CD for $15 there ensures that $15 of it goes to the artist, and they pay people from there.
All concerts, however, have backers. And ususally those are the various labels of the artists in the first place.
http://www.livephish.com/
"The only thing I like better than doing the NYT crossword puzzle- Is actually finishing it"
seems like 20 or so old 1x speed CD writers would suffice to create 20 CDs right at the end of the concert ;) ... use 20 24x recorders and churn out 20 every 5 mintues...
before one of them has a heart attack.
It is unfortunate, but this concept was stolen by Clear Channel after they met with Get the Show, a group whom I was in discussions with about peforming the actual recordings. VERY sad indeed.
Jory
Seems a computer engineer, a systems analyst, and a programmer were
driving down a mountain when the brakes gave out. They screamed down the
mountain, gaining speed, but finally managed to grind to a halt, more by
luck than anything else, just inches from a thousand foot drop to jagged
rocks. They all got out of the car:
The computer engineer said, "I think I can fix it."
The systems analyst said, "No, no, I think we should take it
into town and have a specialist look at it."
The programmer said, "OK, but first I think we should get back
in and see if it does it again."
- this post brought to you by the Automated Last Post Generator...