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Right, that's why I included an "if" in my suggestion. *If* another OS, especially a free one, can do what the users need, then he can switch them to that OS and avoid a lot of headache. They can use online tax software instead of Quicken. The rare website that doesn't work under Linux is either unfixable (so that's an easy call ;), or fixing it will be far less time consuming than reformatting a windows box. There's Banshee to replace iTunes. There's GIMP to replace Photoshop. There are consoles for games. Seriously, what hardware are they going to want to use that Linux doesn't support? There may have to be compromises, and I see your point, but it's a generalization to say that switching them to another OS won't solve his problem - it may or it may not.

And for those that use netbooks or other small screened devices Meerkat does a much better job of recovering wasted space.

Yep. There's absolutely no way to use an iPod under Linux

Now, don't you start your whining about your precious Ogg and FLAC or-anything-else-support neither!

Now STFU, you fucking Troll...

It has nothing to do with language or licensing. Mono is a patent trap for Linux: it holds patented MS technologies that, when more integrated into most Linux distros, can then be used against Linux in court by Microsoft who will sue them all for patent infringement.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding is that the Mono project itself is segmented. Some technologies (notably WinForms and ASP.NET) certainly fall under MS parent, but the core technologies (C# and the CLI) are to be licensed under the MS Community Promise, which seems to waive MS's ability to enforce its patents on those specific technologies. This is similar to other FOSS-defensive patents/licenses, where technology is patented and then licensed under a patent waiver.

Just using Mono/C#/CLI doesn't open yourself up to any MS claims, provided you don't use the Mono libraries that don't have their patent enforcement waived. But this is the case with every set of libraries. Applications that want to avoid licensing issues need only avoid using the unfriendly technology, which is very doable with the segmented Mono. That's one reason why Linux Mono desktop applications (like Banshee) use GTK# instead of WinForms. I don't believe Banshee is subject to those patent claims.

Mono is just a tool; with Mono itself being GPL/LGPL and the MS-developed core dotNET patents (C# and CLI) being put under a FOSS-friendly license, it's really in the hands of the developers to ensure that individual applications don't link against MS's patent-enforceable technologies. This puts it on par with every other language, though.

And Gnome Do, Banshee, F-Spot and other more complex stuff than Tomboy?

I don't get what's so complex about Gnome-Do. In fact, it looks like an app that should have been imlemented in Python (to make it easy to write plugins)

How easy would they be to port (feature complete) to C or C++?

C is a stupid strawman here. Nobody is porting anything to C.

Everyone on either side gets everything they need, and I get a nice and productive language to work with that has extremely useful features (garbage collection/memory management, good event hooks, delegate methods, easy extensibility, etc).

Obviously, C# does all of this worse and Python, though it has a faster vm.

I find it funny how kids these days think C# brings something new to table. They don't have what it takes to do it in C++, but require the safety wheels of static typing in order to keep their spaghetti manageable.

And Gnome Do, Banshee, F-Spot and other more complex stuff than Tomboy? How easy would they be to port (feature complete) to C or C++?

I'm doing some work at the moment on a personal project. The back-end is core C# only, and eventually I'll add in Mono.Addins, which can be redistributed and used on MS's .Net and are part of Mono. There's a System.Windows.Forms front-end made through Visual Studio (because it's the only way to get a decent GUI editor for it). There's a GTK# front-end made through MonoDevelop (because S.W.F on Linux is ugly). Everyone on either side gets everything they need, and I get a nice and productive language to work with that has extremely useful features (garbage collection/memory management, good event hooks, delegate methods, easy extensibility, etc).

If you want a GUI on Windows, or using the Windows libraries, sure.

GTK# is entirely developed by the Mono project, and requires none of the aforementioned Microsoft parts. That means applications like Tomboy and Banshee should now be fully RMS-friendly.

Mono is more than just 'running Windows applications on Linux'. There is a large ecosystem of utilities developed with it, because (a) a properly object-oriented language with native bindings is much better than the C-with-Gobject alternative, and (b) Java was not Free at the time.

I'm not quite sure what your point is. You don't need iTunes to put music on your iPod, either.

Do you know what I liked most in Amarok? The UI. A playlist, a file browser to drag stuff from, and a play button. That's it. I don't need a more complicated UI. I don't want one. Now there's a button for Wikipedia?

Try Banshee http://banshee-project.org/, I've recently switched from Amarok 1.4 to it (as my distro dropped 1.4 support) and it's worked great so far

Certainly not likely to work on Mac's or various phone platforms.

The Banshee developers beg to differ.

So, any suggestions? I'm using xmms right now, which works fine, but is discontinued (and doesn't have the rating feature, or an easy way to search for songs).

Anyway, I'd like to use amarok - it looks like it has all the features I want, except being able to handle thousands of songs.

Probably it didn't work on some specific version of amarok, but probably will if you just go and try it. Anyway I don't like amarok personally since I think the UI is a bit of an afterbirth. Recent versions(post-1.0 I think) of Banshee are a very nice alternative.

Banshee has an interface very similar to Rhythmbox, but Guide/DAPs/MTP">uses libmtp to support many more digital audio players. I find the Amarok interface a bit cluttered, and it's a KDE app anyway. Something like Gnomad2 would not be as well-integrated with your music library as Banshee. Give it a try.

Banshee has an interface very similar to Rhythmbox, but Guide/DAPs/MTP">uses libmtp to support many more digital audio players. I find the Amarok interface a bit cluttered, and it's a KDE app anyway. Something like Gnomad2 would not be as well-integrated with your music library as Banshee. Give it a try.

Check it out. http://www.banshee-project.org/

http://banshee-project.org/Main_Page I use banshee with my ipod works great!

Haha, do you guys know that C# is an open standard, and so is CLI (.Net). I suggest you read the Mono FAQ, it will go over anything I can say a lot better.

I'm just surprised because I hear many people putting Mono and C# down pretty quickly when, when in fact thanks to these things, there have been quite a few innovative things done on the Desktop for Linux, including Banshee, Tomboy, Beagle, and many many more.

Typically the reason for such comments is either ignorance (I don't mean to troll, just trying to think of what can be the cause), as in, the people don't really know the situation, or just doing it because everyone else does it. There's a whole Mono section in the current issue of Linux Format Magazine which seems to kind of inform people on just how Mono is benefiting the Open Source community.

The point isn't for everyone to like it, but at least respect it, after all it's just another Open Source initiative/project and we all should stick together :) Just curious why there's such behavior/attitude towards it.

and it is the only way to get an iPod to work.

http://banshee-project.org/Main_Page

Banshee is one of those really cool projects too.

If you don't want to break the GNOME UI paradigms but still want a half-way decent music player, install Banshee and it's plugins. That way you get MP3, FLAC, AAC, OGG among others, with album art, Audioscrobbler, podcast grabber, pluggable media player support, DAAP sharing, ShoutCast/IceCast, MultiMedia Keys, Smart Playlists, among quite a few other cool features.

The only downside is it's GStreamer based (if, indeed you don't like GStreamer :)

http://banshee-project.org/

"The speaker is actually the very same sideways speaker with three sound waves coming out the right, increasing and decreasing with volume. What a strange thing to clone directly from OS X."

Careful with that plank that it doesn't hit you in the eye.

If you can't find a way to sync your iPod with your Linux machine you haven't really been looking!

When will we get to mod articles "-1, Troll"?

In addition to that a quick search for ipod on Gnome Files turns up Banshee , Rhythmbox , Listen and Yamipod>{not open source} , all of these look like nice options for iPod and music library management under linux but Banshee and Listen really stand out. No DRM of course but there is an entry on codeweavers' site for iTunes though i've no idea how compatible it is at this stage.http://www.codeweavers.com/compatibility/bro wse/name?app_id=134

"I need the craptunes SW to access my music"

I used my iPod with Banshee. It worked fine.

"it uses the inferior AAC codec"

All my music is encoded as mp3's, and the iPod plays them back just fine.

"with an ipod you pay for the brand"

I paid for the DESIGN. I went shopping for mp3-player. I tried different models, and they felt plastique, they felt cheap, they didn't feel comfortable in the hand, they had needless clutter on them ("The Creative Uber-zen videoplayer XMA500+", why does it have to constantly remind me which brand of mp3-player I bought?). Then I tried iPod Mini. It was made from aluminium, it felt like solid piece of metal. It felt smooth and uncluttered. The controls were dead-simple. It just felt RIGHT. Yes, it cost a bit more than the competitors, but not outrageously so It became obvious to me the moment I picked the Mini up, that that extra money does get you something extra.

I find this really surprising to be honest. Good design does take work, but it's not rocket-science. Why is it that after all these years, only Apple does it right, whereas Creative and the others do not?

Banshee - It uses mono so you might have some other philosophical issues to contend with, but it is generally a pretty good iTunes replacement if you don't have any iTMS purchases.

1) No iTunes clone. amaroK - yeeeeech...

You can always apt-get banshee. Banshee allows you to manage your ipod, and the daapd plugin (which is also in the apt repositories) allows you access iTunes music shares, as well as share your own library with iTunes clients.

Well, no reason why it shouldn't, at least under linux. Give it some time (you do know about libipoddevice?).

AmaroK music player

Banshee, developed by a Novell employee, is leaps and bounds ahead of any existing music app for linux.

DigiKam

F-spot, also by a Novell employee.

As far as all of the other applications you mentioned, each has a gnome equivalent that in many cases does a better job.