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Songbird Flies Today
fr1kk writes to tell us that with the recent advent of a preview version for the new open source response to iTunes, Songbird, BoingBoing has taken a few minutes to interview team lead Rob Lord. While this program may be a great alternative to the DRM ridden iTunes and Windows Media Player platforms it is still only a Windows release. The good news is that by being open source that will (hopefully) not last very long. The Songbird site appears to be swamped right now, but there are several different mirrors available to download the client.
Although I dislike Winamp for it's complexity, I did thoroughly enjoy his simplistic (and very well designed) homepage called "smudges of wisdom."
He seems to be an interesting fellow with odd musical tastes: Also interesting is that he goes through a list of decent books, some of which I'm familiar with. The best part about them is that they aren't at all the typical programming books you'd expect.
My work here is dung.
Source code.
(Disclaimer: I'm pro-open-source. But, seriously, how many "music fans" (of the sorts who presently tote about iPods) would even know what source code is, much less give a crap about it? They Just Want It To Work(TM), man.
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
...the same overwhelming success as Ogg. And for the same reasons.
Waaaah! I'm going to dismiss this product out of hand without downloading it or even reading the review.
My pics.
Unless it syncs with my iPod, I really don't have much use for it. Honestly, that's where my music listening is done, not in my office at my computer...
It can connect to classes of service that haven't been invented yet? Impressive. I shall go away and ponder the transdimensional time-travelling inplications of this statement. Over a large brandy.
Cheers,
Ian
But unless I am an idiot, which I may very well be, I could not sort by Name/Time/Album by clicking the column headers. I know it's a preview, but honestly.
Proof of concept, they have the concept down. This is beautiful and I am sure it will develop beautifully, but for now it leaves a lot to be desired.
Only on slashdot can iTunes be equalled to Windows Media Player...
Get your facts straight: files encoded from your own CDs do NOT have any DRM in them. Only tunes bought from the built-in on-line music store have DRM.
iTunes is a player/ripped/jukebox/music store program. You DO NOT NEED to buy DRM tunes online, you do not even need an internet connection (although it comes in handy for the CDDB feature when ripping your own CDs).
it's always nice to see someone doing what's been done before, only prettier, with a GPL, no support and random crashes.
it is still only a Windows release.
And Windows is used by the vast majority of computer users as well as music downloaders so being Windows only is not something small. If it was *nix or OSx only then 90% of people couldn't use it, but that's not the case here.
It's not just the source that's open. The program is also a convenient user interface to buy music online, not just from a single monopoly (e.g. iTunes music store) but from all sources. DRM-free. Note in the screenshot, they have an icon to buy MP3s from amazon.
It's too bad more MUSIC isn't open source, where someone writes pieces of a tune and then releases to the public domain so others can enhance and build upon the original project...
.MOD files and the whole Fasttracker scene was at it's peak. With a .MOD file, when you distribute your music you distribute all of the samples used to make the music and the charts itself. Anyone out on the internet could then edit or improve your music. A lot of the music I wrote early on was based on the works of others.
.99 per song, not really the search capabilities. Most of the time, I can't find the song I want on iTunes, unless it's some pop bullsh*t. How songbird intends to do the same (for the artists who list on there)--rather than turn into the next (insert Napster, Gnutella, etc here)--remains to be seen..
Back in the early days of the internet,
The amazing thing about iTunes is it's ability to make
Cool! Amazing Toys.
Is there a SongSomething extension to rename this program? I prefer Songfox to Songbird...
Go, and never darken my towels again! -- Rufus
Which what what?
Right after I opened it, I noticed the column header control, and that the popup menus look more like the Firefox ones than the Windows native ones, so I checked Songbird's directory, and yes, it appears that it is Mozilla-based.
Now, maybe that's common knowledge, but it's the first I've heard of it, and I think it's worth mentioning. Especially since talk of cross platform porting is.
As far as I know, and I may be wrong here, iTunes will play standard mp3's. At least mine does. So what would the "...a great alternative to the DRM ridden iTunes..." gain you? I would rather have a player that can play drm'd songs, if I were forced to play a few, and still be able to play standard mp3's.
So the "open source" response to iTunes is just a knockoff of iTunes, that runs only on Windows, and connects to music stores that no one wants to buy from?
FANTASTIC!
So they rip off the iTunes interface, and then take out the Music Store and replace it with the amazing free music scattered across the internet? This just seems ridiculous. Don't like FairPlay? Use Windows Media. Don't like that? Buy CD's from Amazon or some brick and mortar store. I'll pass on the free music I don't like.
While this program may be a great alternative to the DRM ridden iTunes and Windows Media Player platforms
So what, are they going to offer the same content without DRM? Think not. How does DRM play in here? If iTMS has DRM it's because the copyright holder has agreed to allow iTMS to distribute content based on the DRM. Being OS isn't going to help this new system out in that regard. Now they may cater to those who are searching for content that is not DRM'ed, but that's content.
As much as I used to like Rhythmbox, and now like aMorak, the idea of a more 'iTunes' style player for Linux has been sorely needed. I hope this get's ported soon, until then, anyone have luck running this via Wine? I have the 9.5.0-pre version, and it's so fun to just have a simple shortcut now to run IE6 (installed easily with Wine Tools).
fak3r.com
Source code.
Well - thats pretty much answered in the article:How many people write extensions for firefox? Not many, but how many people enjoy said extensions?
The source being available mightent directly benefit most people who use an open source program, but they sure as hell benefit from others having access to the source....
My pics.
I only want to know if it supports AllOfMP3 ^^
Their Explorer app is nice, but Access databases suck, especially when I haven't used it for a while, and have to wait 15 minutes for it to update.
Open Source is a good start. But it appears that there is only a Windoze version...how open is that?
Feature-wise, what does this offer that's superior to iTunes?
Couldn't bother to read the article could ya?
Built on the same platform as Firefox, Songbird acts like a specialized web browser for music.
...Nice troll.
.mp3's and CD rips are still DRM free in both iTunes or WMP.
Last I checked my
Were one a mac fanboy, one would have to accept or dismiss it without downloading it because it's windows only. Not exactly the best way to win over the fans.
T Money
World Domination with a plastic spoon since 1984
"Songbird can connect to any a la carte media store -- downloadable music, radio, video, P2P networks, and classes of services that haven't been created yet."
Only the power of the Lord can make something that can connect to things that haven't even been created yet!
Seriously, this is a great idea whose time has come. I sing the praises of Songbird!
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
I didnt see a menu for proxy settings in the app. Might be helpful for those who are at work right now.
You can add the following lines into your config.js in the Songbird directory.
pref("network.proxy.http", "type proxy here in quotes");
pref("network.proxy.http_port", YOURPROXYPORT);
pref("network.proxy.type", 1);
Of course, replace the port and proxy values, and you're in. Its based on firefox, so I just got the settings from the Firefox config and changed from user_pref() to pref().
How exactly is iTunes "DRM ridden"? Here's my take on iTunes: it's free, it's got a decent feature set, and it's easy to use. Other than if you need to run it on an unsupported OS, what's the problem? The only DRM is for songs purchased from the iTunes Music Store, and even that DRM is pretty non-invasive. If you don't want Apple's DRM (queue whining about not being able to play iTMS music on non-iPod MP3 players), just get your music elsewhere. Rip it from CD into numerous formats with pretty solid codecs. Buy standard MP3s from some place like allofmp3.com. Download it (legally, of course) from the 'net.
Honestly, if the software "just works", doesn't force DRM on you, and has the features you need, why spend the time making a product that just attempts to do the same thing? Are there compelling new features in SongBird that iTunes doesn't provide? The way I see it, iTunes is a very nice, free digital audio player that also has the ability to sync with an iPod and use iTMS if you want to take advantage of those things. If you don't want to use iTMS music or an iPod, then just don't use those features.
That being said, hopefully SongBird will have some great innovations that'll push other software makers ahead as well... I'm just not sure there's any more to it than "we don't have DRM and you can see our sourcecode - yay!" and if the developers stick with that mindset it'll never go anywhere.
The recent 6.02 release of iTunes won't install anymore on my Windows machine and it corrupted my old version of iTunes. I am iTuneless as of this moment so I will give it a try....
But alas, Songbird is garish, slow, and overwrought with features. Trying to be everything to everyone by embedding web browsing and access to many alternative music stores and sponsored websites, Songbird misses out on the point of being an iTunes replacement, simplicity. Like most open source projects, people have to learn where to draw the line between duplicating someone else's success to doing too much to surpass it.
Perhaps being a proof-of-concept product they will tweak it and streamline it enough to be both usable and simple. But I don't think we need a Mozilla based web browser that builds multimedia playback into it. Nice try. Should have just made a FireFox extension.
I guess I am forced trying to get iTunes running again, in the short while at least.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
> Open Source is a good start. But it appears that there is only a Windoze version...how open is that?
It's called "Open Source" because you are allowed to see the code, it's not "Omni Source!"
I'm calling FUD and misinformation on this one. I've been using iTunes since it's inception, I've got well over 10,000 songs loaded, and *none* of them are encumbered with DRM. Why? Because I ripped them from CDs I own. And you know what? *You* can do that too! Look, no DRM!
It's just bad journalism to call iTunes "DRM ridden".
Go find yourself a new job, because accurate reporting is not your forte.
yes, because I want a music player that takes up 50Mb of RAM.. moron
I'm late to the game of personal MP3 players and what can and can't be played on any given device. The Songbird site is down, but i did read the article. So my main question is:
Can I use this new app to purchase music from any site that supports purchases (i.e. Apple, Napster, Rhapsody, Amazon, etc...), get a plain old MP3 file, which I can then play/burn onto any device I choose?
I had some experience with Rhapsody a few months back, but it seemed to be in some proprietary format, and I could only use their software to play/transfer/burn the file to my media. Will Songbird get around all of that?
thx in advance,
jeff
thx,
jeff
In re: 'from the free-as-a-bird dept."
Attn: Robert Commander Taco Malda, Jeff Hemos Bates
I represent the law firm of Dewey, Cheatham and Howe, on retainer for Apple Corps d.b.a. Apple Records. Our clients hold international legal and commercial rights to the recording Free As A Bird.
Your unauthorized distribution of lyrics to this performance constitute, at a minimum, a violation of U.S.C. 666-69-3117 and of the provisions on distribution laid out in the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA). You are thus ordered to cease and desist the distribution of these and any other Apple Corps lyrics in your "dept" headings. Our firm has not ruled out further legal action to enforce our clients' Intellectual Property rights.
Signed,
Robert Cheatham, Esq.
Dewey, Cheatham and Howe
With spending like this, exactly what are "conservatives" conserving?
Has anyone else noticed a significant maturation in the capabilities and professionalism of open source projects? Just over the last 6-12 months I'm seeing a steady stream now of major software classes all being copied rather well by open source teams. Before this, my general rule was that open source was buggy and alpha (with notable exceptions - kernel, apache, openof^H^H^...) -- but seeing this story, reminds me that maybe RMS's vision will come true.
While this version is only available on Windows, the app's welcome screen tells you that:
"Songbird is a media browser and Web player built from Firefox's browser engine. Songbird is open source, will run on Windows, Mac OS X and Linux and supports user contributed, cross-platform extensions."
I for one say, Bring it on!
fak3r.com
Extensibility, as the part you quoted explicitly says, comes from architecture. It has nothing to do with whether source code is available or not. You don't write Firefox extensions by fiddling with the source code.
The good news is that by being open source that will (hopefully) not last very long.
I didn't get this sentence. It seems incomplete. Why hopefully it won't last very long?
hemi
Yes! Another open-source copy of a commercial app!
The program is also a convenient user interface to buy music online, not just from a single monopoly (e.g. iTunes music store) but from all sources.
Yet the market has held tightly to iTunes despite the numerous alternatives that have entered the market.
DRM-free.
I see no such assurances, nor do I see the ability to purchase unencumbered music from Amazon. The player merely connects to the store. It doesn't do anything else that I can see. And many of those stores are evil in of themselves. Using the BeatPort example, you MUST have Flash installed and enabled to use the site. How does that help Linux users and Windows users who want to use unencumbered software?
There's a lot of noise here, but very few facts, IMHO. Songbird would be a nice step in improving media players on Linux (assuming a version is ever produced), but as far as I can see, it's not the revolution that you're making it out to be.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
Apple Support. They're pretty detailed.
http://www.musikcube.com/
Open source, and at Release Candidate 2.
I could care less whether software is open-source, tbh. If it's free (as in beer) and intuitive/functional, I don't particularly care if I can find their code comments. If other people use that open-source to make the app better, great, but I'm personally not going to bother with it. And I'd imagine this is true for most OSS users. Having the possibility for anyone being able to improve it is just a bonus to me.
How are sites slashdotted when nobody reads TFAs?
Thank you...I was going nuts with this thing trying to figure it out.
Sean D.
"Hmm. I am to metaphor cheese as metaphor cheese is to transitive verb crackers!"
P.S. Where's the BEEF?! I don't see any links to source code downloads, even in Google's cache of the homepage.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
So far, it has a basic iTunes-like media library, it plays MP3s, and displays web pages.
How long until it becomes a mature media player with support for devices like iPods, offers playback features like crossfading and other effects (maybe through plug-ins like Winamp), visualization options, etc?
So far, it looks impressive for an 0.1 release, and they mention that people will be able to offer extensions for accessibility of music, but what are their plans for built-in support for common media player features?
Yes. But who gives a crap about teenaged (schlock) music fans? They're well served by their corporate masters. We're talking about people with real musical taste here who want more than they can get from the corporate teat. Live music can only go so far... There's nothing better than a really well done recording of an obscure and creative artist. And that is what Songbird promises.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
If songbird keeps a clean and easily understood interface - not descending into the usual "intuitive... if you're a psychotic fanboy!" interface hell that has claimed so many media players - it will grow marketshare, which in turn could help reduce the barriers to Ogg adoption by artists.
The iPod has a simple, easily learned interface. Thus iTunes prospers. From where I'm sitting, the iPod has no features that are as big a selling point as its sweet ergonomic UI - discounting the UI, my Pez MP3 player is actually much cooler.
Here's a list of sites that sell DRM-free music by independent artists:
UseFree.org/drm
Songbird works with most if not all of these sites, and thus makes it easier than ever to break our dependency on RIAA's music and the cancerous DRM technology that it is pushing.
Get computers and accessories from Linux-friendly manufacturers
You sir, are an idiot.
I own a player that uses proprietary sync methods and I don't know about open-source drivers.
I'd like to write one, as I have fairly good knowledge of the tecnology used.
But I don't have access to such tools as logic analyzers, can someone point me to a guide that explains how to sniff usb data (with linux)?
I was under the impression I can connect to the iTunes music store using this program.. but I guess I can't.
Can I purchase MP3s with this program? Even if I'm not in the USA?
And another question - is it possible to search the itunes music store without installing itunes? (and without having a US IP address)
hemi
There are plenty of things wrong with iTunes: The mp3 encoder is inferior to LAME. The Windows version autoloads iPod programs that steal system resources -- even if you don't have an iPod, and even if iTunes isn't running. The tagging system is nonstandard. There are no options (such as with Predixis MusicMagicMixer) to create playlists based on the audio itself, rather than id3 tags. There is no intelligent handling of files on servers or external hard drives. There is no intelligent handling of duplicate or missing files. I could go on and on...
A clone of iTunes which doesn't interoperate with the iTunes store, play any of my DRM'd music, work on a Mac or under Linux, or interface with my iPod. Its only selling point being vaporware plugins.
Bzzt! Next!
I'm not wrong. You haven't thought about it hard enough.
Looks awesome, but won't load my library. Perhaps because it's the preview version. I like the fact that I'll be able to connect to lastfm and such. I'd love for it to sync with my iPod as well.
Give me a productive error over a boring, mundane and unproductive fact any day. ~Anon
Apple does not make it clear to the music renters that they are in fact RENTING the music. They tell the renters that they are buying the music, and this is simply not true.
An open source media player that organizes music and looks like Itunes is all well and good.... But how does it sound? Is the EQ any good? You can organize music with most players out there...whether it sounds good is a bit more important than whether it can use services that don't even exist yet.
Requiem
Obviously we have some teenaged music fans with mod points. More mature mods, please fix my original post. For the "thick" mods in the audience, I was talking about teens who latch onto the most popular music with not a clue about what good music actually is. There are teens out there who have an ear for quality and do listen to music with a real message (other than "partay!!!") or artistic merit. My original post was not targetted at them. Hence the qualifier in the original post.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
but where are the party shuffle or the srs wow effects?
Probably because the moderators are not responsible enough to RTFA before moderating comments. I did, however, RTFA and discovered that Rob Lord is one of the primary developers of Winamp--making my post about Winamp on-topic. Yet, what happened was the moderators took a quick glance at the topic and looked at my post (which probably read like I had an axe to grind with Winamp, I don't know).
What I tried to offer readers was a link to his homepage and resume (which lists the companies he's done work for). Why do I think this is pertinent? Well, because open source developers trying to write something like Songbird are not common. I feel that we should be heralding Rob Lord for his work in providing us an alternative to iTunes--whether it flies or not, god bless him he tried. I think the best way to do that is to visit his webpage and find out what he's about.
If you actually visit his page, he's a witty and interesting man. Am I some sort of Lord fan boy? No, and I'm not even religious to boot! Alright, that pun was a license to mod this post as low as you want.
One thing you'll notice about stories like this is that if you post additional links to information on the stories, some people don't care. Everyone suddenly focused on "iTunes" and "DRM" when they read this article. These are some very negative caveats of this story, in my opinion. What did I find to be the positive aspect? The man behind the code.
My work here is dung.
Hooray! It doesn't play DRM music that's authorized on my computer. Thus, I hereby declare this "neat but worthless" and do therefore delegate it to same untouched hard drive sectors that currently contain "Sunbird".
Hrm... Bird - Bird... What are the odds?
Calm down, people, this is only version 0.1! I wouldn't write it off for crashing or for being platform-limited just yet!
And as for the "no one wants to buy from those stores anyway" argument, competition provides us with some choices. Apple's iTunes might be great for you, but it's probably not for everybody. If these developers want to work on an alternative choice, I think that's great. If you don't like it, don't use it.
It's called "forward compatibility", which simply means that they abstracted the music buying part of the interface and then wrote plugins to connect to each individual music store. If you want to add a new music buying service, you write a plugin to adapt between the music store and the abstract interface.
Simple, really.
...what kind of bird doesn't fly? A jail bird - and that is just what all of you heathens with your new fangled technology are going to be if you keep abusing it. I know this for the RIAA tells me so.
I take issue with the submission's "DRM ridden" phrase. iTunes is not "ridden" with DRM; you don't even have to buy any music from iTunes and have a completely DRM-free experience.
Almost all media players have the ability to play free music. But iTunes has solid support for DRM and it has solid tie-ins with Apple's on-line business. And it's pretty evident that Apple has been designing iTunes and iPod such as to drive traffic to their store and exclude others.
The developers should probably expect a response from Apple's lawyers shortly. The iTunes interface is patented, and this is just blatant! Get an original idea, guys.
The iTunes browser interface is a nearly widget for widget copy of Smalltalk object browsers.
I don't even mind Apple copying other people--they have done that for nearly as long as they exist. The problem with Apple is that they copy other people and then turn around and claim that they themselves invented it.
I suppose compared to Microsoft, Apple is still evil-light, but it's evidently not for lack of trying.
The point of this seems to me to be that it will let you buy from more than one store, it does not force bought music to have DRM. In other words it offers choice and freedom. iTunes restricts you.
It is designed to be extensible. Hopefully there will be an iTunes plugin in the future, it also offers people a chance to use music differently.
It is only release 0.1. I'm sure iPod etc syncing is in the works.
Perhaps it will flop, but at least people tried.
iTunes may be the greatest app ever, but it doesn't run on just any old platform. You might be able to run iTunes under Wine (can you?) or mol on ppc, but that's not ideal even if you can.
I like using iTunes to check out what people are listening to -- even if it's usually utter crap that makes me lose my faith in humanity. Sometimes I boot into OS X on my powerbook just to listen to other people's playlists. (There are a lot of ibook/powerbook users here in Montreal). It'd be nice not to have to use OS X for this. I'm looking forward to the linux port of Songbird.
If SongBird could replicate the iTMS experience of looking for cinema, music, video and podcast as media from anywhere on the 'net that would encode their music as an XML enclosure in addition to the actual media file, DRMed or not, it could be a front-end and generate business for ANY store.
Just by replicating the MP3 tags, you would be able to set up a store. Of course processing of payments would be something your store would actually have to do.
This means any indy artists with CD burners, label printers and PayPal accounts just got themselves a way in as powerful as the 'majors' with their DRMed content and their current lock on the market.
As for the 'major' labels, it means that they can charge as much as they want for their music, which is a major sticking point with Apple.
Hopefully it will be a humbling experience when they suddenly have competition on a equal footing from the very artists that they dismiss as 'non commercial' (meaning that they can't generate enough of a revenue stream from to support their continuing mismanagement.)
But it won't be more that a commercial outlet until the customers/consumers can contract for the content they want.
The 'pull-side' of the market place is currently ignored and grossly underserved by a 'push-side' economy; despite staging protests against the distribution channels which cancel the contracts for the content consumers/viewers/listeners want because they figure that they can maximize profit with some other content.
As long as the 'push-side' can push aside the considerations of the 'pull-side' we're never going to get what we want.
Business, not artistic, considerations will always interfere and bring us whatever crap they hope we'll fall for.
Don't like a Brittany Spears?
Your alternatives are whatever else somebody produced, through the SAME system that produced a Brittany Spears, instead of what YOU need/want to hear.
Don't like the latest bal, uh, block-buster?
Your alternatives are whatever else somebody produced, through the SAME system that produced the latest drek, instead of what YOU need/want to see.
Don't like the latest Danielle Steele?
Your alternatives are whatever else somebody produced, through the SAME system that produced the latest Danielle Steele, instead of what YOU need/want to read about.
THAT is when the revolution will happen.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
After going through every music player that I could find, both closed and open source, I have definitely landed square on wxMusik http://musik.berlios.de/. It Plays mp3, ogg, APE ,MPC ,FLAC, mp2, wav, aiff and wma (win only) files...sorry no AAC as of yet...but it's open source and cross platform, so you can make it happen.
http://www.JournalOfTheRandom.com
Honestly, if the software "just works", doesn't force DRM on you, and has the features you need, why spend the time making a product that just attempts to do the same thing?
Because iTunes has numerous problems. For example, the way it organizes MP3s into directories is broken. Its interface for adding metadata to MP3s has problems. Its handling of classical music is deficient. It has used weird versions of id3. It doesn't interface well with many non-Apple media players. It doesn't handle moving iPods between different machines well. It doesn't integrate well with music stores other than Apple. And on and on.
iTunes is a decent application, but it is also an application that is optimized for generating revenue for Apple; it is not optimized for user convenience and choice. Open source applications are.
Normally I ignore AC posts, but you hit the nail on the head.
The fact that you can only download ONCE is well publicized when buying through iTunes. You're warned to back up your music several times. The fact that getting music OFF the iPod is also well documented.
They guy and his client were morons for not backing up all the data from the old MAC before ditching it. They're trying to blame someone else for their mistakes.
As for only being able to download once, that's why I get my audio books through audible.com. When you buy something from them, you have a license to download it as many times as you want, in one of four different quality levels. While they have limits on how many computers you can authorize at once, I've never had any problems when asking them just do a blanket deauthorization when I'd reformatted a computer before deauthorizing it.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Yeah, uh, the fact it doesn't run on Macs might be a big reason for Mac users to dismiss it and not download it.
"Sufferin' succotash."
I have permission from a performer, in writing, to put some of his music on my htp:///msb.libsyn.com podcast media site but the album I just bought/downloaded from the ITMS doesn't let me convert it from a protected AAC to an MP3.
Guess what podcasting needs? Right.
I'm going to have to use someone else or he's going to have to send me the original files as an MP3 (Thank Heavens nobody records to tape anymore.)
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
It's still bullshit that he had to pay twice for the same songs, but in an Apple world, that's how things work.
The point of DRM is to make legitimate customer pay twice for songs. Not to prevent piracy.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
When I try running this is says it's missing a DLL. When I search this in google it says msvcp71.dll was found locally in C:\Program Files\Songbird\xulrunner\msvcp71.dll
More than 100 comments are already posted and the general opinion is that this piece. I guess if someone would release an open-source alternative of WMP, everyone would rave about it. Or wait a second, does not everyone and their dog love WMP Classic? What's wrong with Songbird then? The fact it competes with the beloved Apple? Come on, isn't that the choice is all about? Providing alternatives, free speech, modifying source for own needs, providing extensions and stuff like that? Where is the cheer then? For the record, I think iTunes is a bloated piece of crap. It is slow (comparing to Winamp), unmanagable (I prefer to organize my music myself, thank you), completely useless if you don't maintain id3 tags (I don't), annoyingly intrusivee (no, I do not have an iPod and there is no need to install ipodservice everytime I boot my computer). I've never understood much hyped smart playlists and I prefer to manage the music collection on my portable player by hand through a standard file manager and sane filenames skipping all the proprietary shit. Not to mention the famous iTunes synchonization is not practical, when you have more music than the size of your mp3 player. Even WMP is better in comparison to iTunes, even though I think WMP is crap as well. At least it does not put completely random stuff to Windows/CurrentVersion/Run. Granted I haven't tried the Mac version and I hear it is much better than the Windows equivalent, but that's my experience with the Windows version. Songbird, on the other hand, whilst being a blatant iTunes clone, seems to be ok'ish far. Integration with relevant web service (not just sponsored crap) is a big plus. Oh, and it is great to see stores like Beatport there (it seems to demand a flash plugin installed separately, but hopefully it will be fixed). Don't think I'll switch to it in the near future, but I am glad something like this exists.
The one thing that would make this a useful replacement for iTunes for my use, is the ability to access iTunes shares, and share in a manner that allows iTunes users to connect. Living in halls of residence at uni, I have access to several terrabytes of music to stream over the iTunes shares. That is the only reason I use iTunes. Can songBird do this?
- Frans.
One big problem with iTunes is that it does think it should be in charge of managing where your files are, and if it is possible to turn it off, it isn't obvious. I tend to be happy with leaving my files organized as they are (one directory per album, each track named by artist-track-songname). I don't want a music _player_ messing up my organization.
Second problem, iTunes seems to feel a need to copy the contents of CDs to the hard drive, including data CDs with MP3 files. My girlfriend is using an older Mac G3 with OSX, which only has a 10GB disk (about half of that is free space). Using iTunes to play files is painful, because there just isn't that much free disk space - which is why she burnt files to CD in the first place. We could upgrade the disk, but that seems silly...just trying to squeeze another few years out of this computer before buying something new.
Third problem, iTunes enjoys takig up tons of screen space. Something like XMMS or old versions of Winamp (started using v1.92 when I had a P75 laptop...still use it on my new computer) would be easier to use...they're small, unobtrusive programs that just play music. I don't get why people are so keen to defend a program that's as much of a monstrosity as Windows Media Player.
Not that I use the iTunes music store, but my guess is that its DRM won't work well with my MSI (flash-based) mp3 player. DRM is still DRM, regardless of whether you call it Fairplay.
I know it's not perfect, but it seems no one is mentioning the open source iTunes-ish app, gtkpod. Syncs great with iPods and does most of the work that iTunes does (minus the ripping).
Link: http://www.gtkpod.org/about.html
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
When I maximize the player it covers the taskbar, even though I have the taskbar immobile and set to stay on top of other windows. It also takes an incredibly long time to read all of the metadata of my music. Granted, I have a ton of music, but it's still annoying that I've had it installed for 10 minutes and I still can't find half of my music in it. I also can't figure out how to edit track metadata. The edit button doesn't seem to do anything, and it has all of my various artist albums split up by the individual track artists.
Overall, so far I can't say that its going to get me to switch from foobar2000 anytime soon, particularly since I haven't been able yet to verify whether it supports musepack files.
I can pause tracks, but how do I stop them?
I have a nice speaker system setup with my Linux box. There's no way to play any of my $250 worth of iTMS-purchased songs on that machine. None. All of the files bought from iTMS are DRM-locked and can only be played on machines which are authorized through iTMS.
Unfortunately, there is no software for Linux which is capable of doing that. DVD Jon had released FairPlay and some other tools which could unlock those files, but Apple broke those utilities with the release of iTunes 6. You have to log into iTMS with a computer to generate a key for the computer. The tools can no longer log into iTMS, and so they cannot generate a key for my Linux box.
I can't copy the files off my Mac to my Linux box, I can't copy the files from my iPod to my Linux box, I can't copy the files to any machine that can't run iTunes, including any other portable music players made by companies other than Apple.
Sure, the several thousands songs I ripped from CDs to MP3s are fine and I can move those around, but at my current rate I would soon surpass the number of MP3s I have with the number of DRM-encumbered MP4s I have. (I don't plan on purchasing so much as one more song from iTMS until there is a way to transfer them to my other computers and devices.)
iTunes is fantastic if all you want to do is rip CDs onto your Mac or sync songs to an iPod. My iPod is breaking down (and is well out of warranty) and any replacement I buy will definitely not be an iPod, and my only Mac is an old iBook with horrendous sound ouput quality compared to the sound system on my Linux desktop. I've had to resort to burning my MP4s to CD (a lot of CDs), re-ripping them into Vorbis on the Linux box (losing some sound quality due to encoding the music twice), and then manually retagging all of the songs since the meta-data is lost when burned to CD. Whatever convenience I gained by using iTMS has now been lost.
iTunes *IS* DRM encumbered. Well, more accurately, iTMS is. [b]And that's what Songbird is competing with - the music store, not the music manager.[/b]
Yeah! And that's why, if he had kept a backup, he wouldn't have been able to use it again and would have had to buy a second copy! And that's why, when I buy a CD at the store, they replace it for free (or at-physical-cost) when I break it so I don't have to buy it again!
Christ, do you even think before you post?
Is the main reason for this simply because of the DRM on songs downloaded from iTunes? I can definitely understand that being an annoyance, but personally don't find it very restrictive. I've put purchased iTunes on a couple computers, I guess if you use quite a few computers day to day and want to access your music on all of them it could get troublesome.
Or is it just the concept of having any type of restriction on a purchased product?
The fundamental problem with open source is they COPY proprietary software and do not INNOVATE new things. That is why open source will be nothing more than a tool for geeks and a cost cutting tool for big corporations and big government.
From other slashdot users, I've been alerted to foobar2000, the light quinnware, a crude hack of XMMS2 for Windows, etc. Just check out this site if you want to look up new lightweight players. There are lists everywhere.
Honestly, I was afraid that Songbird would be too bloated--trying to do everything for everyone a la Winamp.
I do not agree with your assessment of Winamp being the lightest audio player. It probably has Windows Media Player beat but I use better alternatives in alternate operating systems.
My work here is dung.
I have my music stored on a linux server, and have windows and linux machines at home, and I do not want to be forced to change formats to mp4 lossless, when it would be a pain to use in linux. So on that note if Songbird works as easily as itunes and plays flac (as well as other formats) I will be more then happy to use it alongside amorak in linux. (Sure I can use winamp or foobar in windows, but for playing and organizing a large collection it sucks).
What's up with the dispeptic bird as a logo?
Whatever.
1) Does not sync with iPod. How can anything be an iTunes replacement if it can't sync with the iPod. There are F/OSS projects that sync with iPod, so why can't this project do it ? iTunes is a way to manage music on my iPod. I think the thundersongbirdfox team missed a critical feature by not including sync support.
2) How many F/OSS projects were initially windows only, and then went on to be a major cross platform success ? Right, so already we can see that this team is not interested in the bulk of the F/OSS community.
3) Does not support music I already own. Weather or not they agree with my choices, I own music with fairplay DRM, and I want to keep playing those songs. They will have to support DRM laden songs if they want to replace iTunes.
This project is destined to fail. Too many things are working against them for it to gain any momentum.
It doesn't support m4a/aac tags.
Chances are any disscution on Slashdot will degrade into a flamewar about ID/Christianity within 14 posts.
Everyone to whom I have spoken has said that iTunes and an iPod will only let you sync to one computer at a time. To me, that sounds like DRM. I'm kind of astounded that Mac fans would not recognize this. Maybe these Mac fans are too much in love with an image projected by Apple's prodigious marketing team, and are not seeing reality.
3 4
There are other open source options, such as this Oboe service from MP3tunes, which was slashdotted here by Scuttlemonkey. This service will allow you to stream and sync to any computer with the open source Oboe software package, and the download is free, although the service is not free as in beer, but costs $40.00 USD per year:
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/01/23/16432
Chiggers writes to tell us that Mad Penguin has an interesting look at Oboe, the new music service from MP3Tunes. For a monthly fee Oboe allows you unlimited space to create a cross-platform music playlist available anywhere you have an internet connection via their AJAX-enabled GUI. The audio player still needs a little work but overall it is an interesting idea.
I'd point out that the number of people writing extensions for FireFox is pretty big. The issue there is that many of them are not very generic. I know several companies that use such extensions internally for all sorts of things.
Predixis does it by a proprietary algorithm for their MusicMagicMixer, but I'm sure it measures BPM, dynamic range, amount of change over time, the unique sonic characteristics of different instruments, etc. In practice it's not perfect, but it is a great tool for creating unusual and effective mixes.
True enough - but assuming that it does Just Work, surely this is a good way to introduce them to the idea of, and ideologies behind, open source software? Then maybe when they start their productive or creative working lives they'll look for open source tools like Thunderbird/Firefox/The Gimp etc.
They might not care now - but they may in the future, particularly if their experiences of open source software have been positive.
Sky King will be so happy!
"I believe I can fly...
I believe I can crash and die..."
Pure pain.
Thank you.
While there are several good open source music library progs on the linux side, I've been held captive by the piece of sh*t iTunes in Windows.
wxMusik seems much more like my style, and this was the first time I heard about it!
Save your wrists today - switch to Dvorak
gee, i haven't had any problem using itunes and an ipod freely without hitting any DRM. i buy my own cds and rip them as i choose.
the poster is clearly high.
Maybe I'm closer to being a typical consumer than he is, as I use Yahoo Music Unlimited and I'm very happy with it. I disagree with some of the things he stated.
... they all do pretty much the same thing these days. Rip, mix, burn, play, organize playlists.
... Even if you could buy all your music in one place, like Wal-Mart, would you want to?
Services like iTunes -- where everybody has to shop from the same store -- are like walled garden online services back in the early days.
How many people search using only Google? If the store has everything I want, great! One stop shopping. Now my store (Yahoo Music) doesn't have everything I want - it lacks the Beatles. Songbird won't help...at least legally. The only way for me to get the Beatles legally is to pop a CD in and rip it.
All of the popular media players out there have pretty much the same feature set on the desktop
That's because 95% of the people only want to do those things. I think it's great that Songbird is going to innovate and be open...who knows what will come of it? Just don't expect the openness to be a killer feature that will attract "the masses".
Why wouldn't you buy your bluegrass in one place and your trance music in another?
Apparently the answer is yes. You don't see a lot of butchers and bakers around anymore, do you? That's because people like getting all their stuff in one place. Think Amazon.com. If one store has all my bluegrass and all my trance, then great.
The interface looks a lot like Yahoo Music's as well (or maybe iTunes...I'm not that familiar with it)
Anyone know how it compares to musikCube?
http://www.musikcube.com/
I can list quite a few friends of mine who are teenaged and want to hack through the source... I was one at one point (being 21 forces me to not be a teenager, but at the age of 18 I was going through source).
And we're all hardcore music fans. Being a coder does not mean you don't listen to/love music, or am I missing something about being geek?
Unless of course you're not a pro-opensource coder if you're under 25...
And one reason why me and a whole bunch of my friends are dieing to get our hands on songbird is that it's pretty much iTunes with the source.... Meaning we get iTunes (almost our favourite music player) and we then get to change it to our heart's delight (there's a lot I wish I could do with iTunes)...
Reason enough for us to be interested in the source?
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've never understood much hyped smart playlists
... and I'll be happy.
Yeah, what is it with those? Peoplel crow about how useful they are, but what for?
I have *one* useful smart playlist: because my whole collection won't fit on an iPod, I have to choose what goes on. However since *almost* my whole collection fits on, it's easier to maintain a list of stuff to stay off than it is to maintain a list to stay on.
So, I maintain an "off iPod" ordinary playlist, and a smart playlist that's "everything except what's in the 'off iPod' list".
It works, but it feels like an awful hack, and if you mark other playlists to go onto the iPod, those don't take into account the 'off iPod' list (one would have to make a smart playlist corresponding to every normal playlist, and mark those for synching to the iPod. Ugh.)
The query mechanism for smart playlists means that to do anything vaguely sophisticated you have to start nesting lists, and the fact that iTunes only lets you have a linear list of playlists means that you really want to minimise the number of playlists to keep it manageable.
Songbird, please:
- give me hierarchical folders of playlists
- give me a prominent view where playlists, automatic playlists based on queries (let's not call them Smart Playlists to avoid Apple's lawyers), and albums all appear together intermixed (polymorphism, OO fans!)
...you could always rip to MP3 in WMP/9.. You just had to buy the codec and install it (I think it was $15 or so)..
Do you still have to buy the codec with WMP10, or is it included now?
SYS 64738
Yeah! And that's why, if he had kept a backup, he wouldn't have been able to use it again and would have had to buy a second copy!
Um... But with DRM you aren't able to make a backup most of the time! And if you do so you might be breaking the DMCA law if you bypass the DRM security.
when I buy a CD at the store, they replace it for free (or at-physical-cost) when I break it so I don't have to buy it again!
What store do you buy CDs at? No seriously, I want to know because all the major stores I shopped at won't let you return CDs without going through a fuss with a manager or two about "because of copyright laws" (actual quote of a Target employee) that they can't exchange it for money and what happens if they don't have a copy of the original?
Oh. You are shit out of luck.
"I am the king of the Romans, and am superior to rules of grammar!"
-Sigismund, Holy Roman Emperor (1368-1437)
OK, I looked at Songbird. It's slow. Clearly it's meant to be some kind of heavyweight application that'll maybe-someday compete with the features of itunes.
But, um, what's up with even thinking itunes is a good thing to copy?
itunes is itself slow, installs a bunch of helper apps on my Windows computers that aren't very helpful since I don't have an ipod, and it uses a bunch of non-native UI elements that don't behave quite the same way as the Windows equivalents. The all-important library feature that seems to be the main cause for sucking at the itunes-cock doesn't appear useful to me. I don't know why. Maybe because I use a sensible system for identifying my music files using the filesystem? Or maybe because classical music doesn't lend itself as well to what I see as the overly simplistic and under-customizable identifiers itunes has? Regardless, the itunes library didn't do anything I couldn't do five other ways, without using itunes, and the Songbird version is no different.
itunes can rip music, something I've done with cdex for a while. itunes isn't as good at it as cdex, which lets me choose my codec and even my file naming scheme. It can make my organization for me, if I let it.
itunes can play music, too? Meh. So can XMMS. So can WinAmp, Foobar, VLC or, hell, PowerDVD. I have m3u playlists. They work fine.
What is itunes giving that I don't already have? Why are so many here worshipping that specific program?
-- I wanna decide who lives and who dies - Crow T. Robot, MST3K
I'm a fucking moron? Retard? Do I sense an Encounter of the Fanboy?
I never said that iTunes mangled the files on my computer. In your defense, I didn't specify that it mangled only the files when syncing them to the iPod. Indeed, I was also unaware that you had to tell iTunes to stop mangling files that they transferred over to the iPod. I've never used an iPod or iTunes because I never bought into that fashion crap; I had superior hardware four years ago. And you know what I use to sync my music? Drag and drop.
There is no reason to mangle the names except to prevent people from looking at the music on the iPod as if it were a hard drive. Why should there be a difference between storing the music on the hard drive and "syncing" it?
Music files are, indeed, treated like files, yes? Why must the iPod mangle the filenames in order to show artist/album/song during playback?
The iPod is just a fashion statement with great pain taken to make it idiot-proof. My Archos had larger storage and better functionality four years ago, before this iPod "revolution". What better functionality? I've been able to stream video from my Archos to a TV for FOUR YEARS. When did the Video iPod come out? I can't remember, because I didn't give a fuck since I could already do that.
And the click wheel? I prefer the Archos interface because it resembles the DVD navigation system, which is intuitive enough for me, and the other millions of people who use a DVD player. And I can operate it with gloves on! Haha!
:(){
Copy that file into the C:\Windows\System folder.
I had the same problem - Songbird just doesn't seem to want to check its own directory.
I happen to have installed iTunes 6.0 in Linux using Wine 0.9.7 (compiled from source) over the weekend (6.0.2 failed). This is in Fedora Core 4; iTunes didn't play well with the official Fedora wine rpm. The install took a few hours on a relatively fast machine (P-M 2.0), but iTunes does run. It was able to detect the music being shared via Rendezvous from a box running iTunes 4.8 in another room, and it played all the MP3 shared music fine (I didn't try AAC ones). I could browse the iTunes store, but I couldn't listen to previews (probably DRM issue). I used the instructions found here: http://frankscorner.org/index.php?p=itunes6
Sadly, PS/2 was yet another victim of USB, which doesn't care what you plug into it, the electrical slut.
Excepting a few extreme edge cases, anyone who buys an mp3 player either has money to burn or is completely financially incompetent.
Granted, the financially incompetent group is probably larger.
Oh, nice price roundup, BTW.
The more interesting question is:
Do kids give a damn about the independent labels or DRM free muaic?
Or what doesn't it do, and why doesn't it do what I want it to do?
I'm so confused...
Um... But with DRM you aren't able to make a backup most of the time! And if you do so you might be breaking the DMCA law if you bypass the DRM security.
You've never used iTunes, I take it.
To back up your music files, you move the file to the CD drive and hit 'burn'. That's it. There's no DRM involved, it's just a plain ol' file like any other. (Heck, iTunes even has a setting for making its own backups-- you can set it to burn the music files instead of CD tracks, then burn any playlist you want for easy backups.)
Comment of the year
"The summary is like this: You can manage your iPod from as many iTunes installations as your want. But in order to do this, you have to disable synchronization from Preferences window."
Okay, that is one of the limitations that I was talking about in my original post. With Oboe, you don't have that problem. You sync by song name and album and artist. If you have duplicates of those songs, you will be alerted to that fact, and given the change to change the medata. But the sync still happens.
"So they chose the obvious solution: sync works with a single copy iTunes, however you can upload songs from as many PCs as you want if you disable sync."
With Oboe, you can also sync DOWN to as many PCs as you want, except that at some point, if you were to illegally share your password, MP3tunes would cut you off for two reasons: They don't want to share music illegally; they don't want to get sued; and they lose money if people share accounts, because each sharing user is a lost sale.
Not the best start, anyone know what msvcp71.dll is and why Songbird might need it but not include it?
That's not true. It was new in WMP8 ("Media Player for Windows XP"). WMP9 had it too, and has it downlevel.
It's on top in your mind, but let's look at the truth. Even against mp3, Ogg is not impressive. Between lame -v5 and Vorbis -q 4.25, the lame files came out significantly smaller on all but a handful of cases...in fact, it averaged significantly larger filesizes than all other codecs tested.
So, significantly larger files, and in raw numbers it does slightly better, but statisically it ties with all other codecs worth mentioning. That's hardly a codec that's "on top".
THIS IS WHY Vorbis has already lost. Other vendors stepped up to produce the next-generation of codecs well before Vorbis became polished, and they made them very much free (as in beer). Most people don't care that Vorbis is also free (as in speech).
Me, I just stick with mp3, works everywhere, and Lame just keeps getting better. Who knew mp3 had this much room for growth? It's running strong with the next-gen codecs at similar bitrates!
Man is the animal that laughs.
And occasionally whores for Karma.
Not really ... you could always rip to MP3 in WMP/9.. You just had to buy the codec and install it (I think it was $15 or so)..
That's not coherent. It takes the form of a refutation, but is merely an addition of a fact and not a refutation.
WMP 9 does not rip mp3s. WMP 9 plus an mp3 encoder does.
This is similar to how Windows XP does not burn, nor does it play, DVDs. It would not be a refutation to say that you can, with add-ons. It would be a clarification, which is fine, but it's not a refutation.
Do you still have to buy the codec with WMP10, or is it included now?
The answer to that is in the post you are replying to.
http://nocloo.com/Songbird_0_1_0.exe
I see this type of comment a lot here...it really isn't a valid observation.
In essence, you're correct, they don't want open source. But they do want the things that open source offers: upgraded, new clients that provide features that the community wants to see, lack of DRM, cross platform code (eventually), open standards, etc.
This is like saying the average driver doesn't care about having a new-fangled fancy hybrid engine. You're right, they don't. But they do like to believe they drive a car with fewer emissions that is better for the environment, they do like being able to drive in the carpool lane even if they are driving alone, they do like getting 40-50 MPG, and they do like getting the tax break.
So, while the benifits aren't synonymous with the method, the engine that drives the development (or car) determines its features, some of which are desirable to more people than only the set that understand the engine in-depth.
I realise this is not a final build by any means, but my initial reaction to any new program is to poke around in the options/preferences and see what tweaks I can make. I couldn't find any in this (wasn't I looking hard enough, or aren't there any?) and that made me sad, one of my favourite iTunes features (although it occasionally truncates stuff) is the library organising stuff, keeping my music well labelled. Also, it was a little overwhelming with all the bookmarks and services all down the side. I turn all that crap off in iTunes, and when I minimised it and then restored it they all expanded themselves again.. not cool! I'll keep an eye on this though, as an OSS equivalent to iTunes is definitely something I'm interested in.
Like they're both great, but sheesh, over stating your product just makes people have false expectations of your work. So a person like me comes along, tries it out expects this amazing application and feels let down. Instead of me trying out an unhyped application and being impressed with it's development so far.(clone or not.)
Moral of the story, hype is as bad for your software as it is for movies.
iTunes doesn't have any more DRM than Songbird inherently. Music from the iTunes Music Store will, but you don't have to buy it, and can rip CDs for all of your music if you want and not have any DRM. iTunes gives you the option to use the ITMS, but doesn't require it. So what is Songbird actually doing about DRM that is better than iTunes? Not being compatible at all? Is that a feature?
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
Yes, stupid I am...and you are brilliant for noting that! But not everyone who wants to run this software on a Mac or other system is proficient enough to compile source code for their OS of choice. And it is not simply a matter of running the source through a compiler, I am educated enough to know that.
Yes, it is. I refer you to Microsoft's own page. To save you some clicking and reading, I'll quote the relevant part:
If you simply mean that you could add a plug-in to WMP 9, then sure, that's a fair statement. But I wasn't saying you couldn't buy a plug-in, so it's hardly a "that's not true/parent overrated" situation, now is it?
In my experience, most people don't know what those things mean, and even if they did would not care a lot about them. People want software that Just Works(TM).
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
Does songbird do this, or are they planning on doing it?
Never used iTunes except for finding the odd podcast, but those are nifty features, rather than having to make a manual playlist with multiple track copies to weight it how you want, a Party Shuffle non iTunes player would be handy.
Not Free SF Reader
I'm a Mac user and would certainly try this, but there is no Mac version.
Stupidity is like nuclear power, it can be used for good or evil. And you don't want to get any on you.
(Disclaimer: I'm pro-open-source. But, seriously, how many "music fans" (of the sorts who presently tote about iPods) would even know what source code is, much less give a crap about it?..)
Normally I would think the same thing (and I have about other topics) but then I remember there are 6 billion people in the world and then I realize that it only takes 1 person to prove me wrong.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
...was "Uninstall Songbird".
It was pretty unstable on my machine. Songs kept restarting, lots of stutter, then it finally croaked.
For the 30 minutes or so that it did work, I didn't see any feature that caught my eye. I do have some DRMed music files (iTunes Originals, for example) and they didn't seem to show up at all. Songbird died before I could try any Microsoft DRMed files.
Does it totally ignore anything with DRM? That's almost as annoying as DRM itself.
Hey, I'm a teenager who wants Free software and its corresponding source code, insensitive clod!
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
Your exact comment was "mp3 ripping is new to WMP 10". MP3 ripping was "new" to WMP8. "Free MP3 Encoder" was new to WMP10. And even that's fudging the line if you know the difference between the Advanced vs Professional flavors of FhG, since the FhG Advanced codec has shipped with MS/WM for about 7 years now. I did work with FhG on their ACM encoder back when it was created... this is an area I hope I know.
So yeah: I do think your comment was overrated, and misleading. Mp3 ripping is not new to WMP10, and that "a fraction of the copies of WMP" who can do it is probably every user on any supported configuration.
Again, I will respect that you're clarifying that you meant "free mp3 ripping was new to WMP10" (which is also not true, as WinSuperSite and others covered way back when in WMP8 beta days), but still... at face value I think what you said was misleading, and we should both know that people like to run off and repeat broken facts ad infinitum. As such, I like my facts straight-up, no chaser.
It's basically a crippled iTunes with an embedded Firefox window, with predefined bookmarks for online music stores (not iTMS) and shoutcast listings. No CD burning, no music sharing, no iPod sync, no smart playlists, etc. This is nowhere near an iTunes killer.
Got Rhythmbox? Got Firefox? Then you have Songbird, minus the clunky integration. It's not as bad as Sun's Windows desktop bullshit with StarOffice 5, but god damn it's close.
Let's face it folks; killing iTunes means killing the iTunes music store and the iPod. This Apple music trinity owns over 80% of the market. Among college students and younger, probably more like 95%, and they're the trendsetters. Tearing down iTunes is impossible without taking down the other. And unless the open source community can utilize the iTMS, while developing seamless iPod compatibility, taking out iTunes will be damned near impossible
Ogg is free and widely available for windows (winamp) and linux (xmms, xine, mplayer, etc). It installs on tons of computers. I don't know for certain about the mac world, but i would guess it's freely available. There's even some support for it on the ipod running linux.
I'm afriad we can draw no other conclusion than "songbird does suffer from 'bloat'."
Procrastination Man strikes again!
Well, I'm 18, so I don't know if I'd count as a kid or not, but I do indeed care about indie labels and DRM free music. I buy almost all of my tracks on Beatport, and the rest is second-hand vinyl from random sellers online or from Ebay. I also go record bin diving at whatever place I can. (And check if it's not from the RIAA from RIAARadar.) Yeah, not really the norm, but still... it's existant.
Me, I just stick with mp3, works everywhere
MP3 through LAME works everywhere except the United States, Germany, and a few other major developed countries where Fraunhofer happens to hold broad exclusive rights.
That has little to do with iTunes. The iPod just works that way... try putting music on an iPod with any other manager software, it will turn out just the same way. Some 3rd party managers can also pull music off an iPod and rename the tracks based on tags.
iTunes only "mangles" track names if you have the "keep my music organised" checkbox checked, and even then it just sorts them into directories by artist and then by album.
That said, I don't think iTunes is a great music management application. With large collections it gets slow, really slow. And there's no way you can organise things by anything other than genre, album name and artist tags. I prefer foobar2000.
That or Sony rips that source code apart and uses it in their next illegal DRM schema.
Sony has produced illegal DRM XML? Where do I download the schema so I can validate it?
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
what sort of an illiterate fuck are you? you reply to his comment with a completely irrelevant tidbit about returning cds? what the fuck does that have to do with replacing broken ones you shitcock dumbfuck frickin moron?
I know it's still a limitation, however it's not DRM related. Actually the problem is with the sync algorithm. Consider this: you add "Metallica.mp3" to PC A'a library and another unrelated "Metallica.mp3" to PC B'a library. After that you sync with PC A, then sync with PC B and then delete the mp3 on PC A and then to the both syncs again. What should happen?
This is a very difficult question, because there is not one anwser to it. So they chose the obvious solution: sync works with a single copy iTunes, however you can upload songs from as many PCs as you want if you disable sync.
It is not a difficult question: If PC A:Metallica.mp3 is meant to be different from PC B:Metallica.mp3 they should be treated as if they were different files, that is before you delete PC A:Metallica.mp3 you should have two Metallica.mp3 in all places (.
Actually, synchronizing music collections is somewhat different from rsyncing your home directory: Once ripped, you don't edit your music files (at least not insite in your music collection), so you can assume that two music files that have the same name whose content don't match are different.
Yes, but you know damn good and well Fraunhofer won't waste their time prosecuting an open-source hobbyist project.
BladeEnc binaries got shut down due to a cease-and-desist letter alleging infringement of an essential patent. So did VirtualDub's ASF (.wmv) reading code, for those who claim that Microsoft uses patents only defensively.
Hey, I hope you get this comment, you didn't have an email listed publicly in your /. profile. I'm interested in a music set up similar to what you described. Can you point me in the direction of the software, server stuff you're using? It would be greatly appreciated! smilinggoat at gmail dot com
Shouldn't You expect more from your DJ?
I gave it a shot, its a big peice of crap. sorry.