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Opera was awful on OS X in 2003. Also, by that point we had Chimera and Safari.

for example, PPC Macintoshes can't run a version of Firefox later than 3.6x A PowerPC iMac I have is more than adequate for light office use, and will probably keep running for several more years. But no PPC support for later browsers will send it to the landfill before that.

--- Eventually we'll be unable to access websites that rely on features in recent versions of flash, java or html5.

For this particular case, why not use the Camino browser? Supports Firefox features, but has the look & feel of Safari.

Realize that as part of running a business you might have to upgrade software/hardware at least once in seven years.

You could also try Camino

It's not like you can't find alternatives.

...and only with programs that they want you to use...

Wait, what?! How do you people not get modded down for this blatant misinformation? There are absolutely no restrictions on what applications you can run on OSX, as evidenced by the vast selection of free and open source software available for it, much of it competing directly with apple products.

There's always Camino, which runs more smoothly than Firefox anyway, and has older builds for Mac OS X 10.3 down to 10.1, and Classilla if you're running Mac OS Classic.

On OSX you should take a moment to check out Camino. It's normally a couple of steps behind the latest Firefox release, but it's far more Mac-like with full support for the 'Services' menu, Keychain, speelchequer, etc. To automatically get the latest Camino nightlies that are somewhat closer to the Firefox releases, you may be interested in CaminoKnight.

You may miss a few common Firefox plugins, but at least Adblock is there...

Mozilla sat on their asses in terms of efficiency and effectiveness.

Yes and no. When FF3 originally came out, it fared a lot better compared to the competition of the time. To show you what I mean, notice the memory graph that the Mozilla people gave when they initially started preview releases of Firefox 3. Since IE8 and Chrome came out, the bar has gone up substantially. At least give a bit of time for Firefox to counter back before before calling them folks the scum of the earth.

Now maybe Mozilla can start working harder on memory leaks, multi-threading, making Firefox not suck on a Mac, and getting rid of needless bloat like the Awesome bar.

FF3 made large strides on a better Mac interface with 3.0 which is somehow forgettable now. If the interface still bugs people enough to run away from it, they should probably just be using Camino. Or would they rather be using this or this?

I think that with chrome catching on (on Windows), multi-threading has a large chance of becoming a focus in Firefox 4. If I remember, Chrome appeared from nowhere when the Firefox 3.5 development was froze so no new features could be added, let alone an architectural rewrite.

Not for I am not going to comment on the Awesome bar.

Sorry for the extra reply. I forgot to recommend Camino which uses the Gecko rendering engine but is a real Mac application, and has built-in ad blocking.

Or try Camino: http://caminobrowser.org/

... but they can upgrade to the latest version of Camino.

I use Camino as my browser on my Mac and choose to leave the home page as the default "Camino Start" page. Its very minimalist, just shows a small Google search box, and a link to the latest version which changes colour to red if my version is outdated.

No in-your-face messages, no irritating popups, no external syncing software... though I guess it only works if you keep it as your home page. Makes sense to use a feature that's built into every web browser (sarcasm aside): the ability to load a web page!

This is an even better patch...

Firefox is suspect on the Mac, in comparison to the stability it achieves on Linux and Windows operating systems. Although I love it, and have it installed, I have moved away from Firefox 2.x over time. I would check out Camino instead. Almost the same rendering with Gecko, but, rock solid in terms of crashing and such. Optimized versions specific to your processor, along with some useful add-ons (extensions unfortunately don't work with Camino) can be found at PimpMyCamino.com. I use the UserAgent add on to set Camino to be the latest version of Firefox for websites that want to exclude it.

IMO, it still feels like a Windows app. If extensions support isn't critical to your workflow, you might want to have a gander at Camino instead.

p

I'm shocked that nobody has posted Camino (mac web browser). (or else, i'm shocked that the search didn't find said post ;). Uses the gecko rendering engine (so usually, if a page works in firefox, it works in camino), but throws away all the other crap from Firefox.

There is something similar called, i think, Galeon, for X11.

While I use it when I'm on a Windows PC ... I really can't stand it on the Mac

No, they just changed the name to Camino.

Most people also hate that Firefox uses large amounts of memory due to it's extensions, spellchecking, and other useful features.

There is a "Firefox Lite", at least for OSX. It's called Camino. I briefly used it myself, and while I do agree it was fast, the lack of extensions was a dealbreaker.

Now yes, we could make a Firefox Lite, but why? Mozilla =/= Microsoft. They simply want people to be able to use a quality web browser. If that browser happens to be Opera (as one parent pointed out), we should put aside personal biases and point users with slower PCs towards Opera.

On another note, those experiencing problems with Firefox, and who are using OSX, try this. Apparently they put in some architecture specific code to speed up the browser, and it's still compatible with firefox extensions.

He said that Safari ignores most Windows conventions. That's bad.

I'm a Mac user and a huge fan of Apple's, but I completely agree that's bad.

One of the most frustrating things about using Firefox in OS X is that it looks and feels horribly wrong because it ignors most Mac conventions*.

What's good for the goose is good for the gander.

I was prepared to call the article FUD before reading it... but then I noticed that it's Ars so I read it, and not only do the complaints seem valid, I don't even understand what Apple was thinking with some of the issues. For example, porting the OS X antialiasing over to Windows rather than using the native ClearType just seems weird (almost to the extent that I don't believe Ars Technica).

Yes, I know about Camino, but that doesn't diminish my point.

I still use Camino, a Mozilla-based browser for OS X. Is there a similar guide to configuring Camino options or do most of these work as is?

There is another Mozilla browser for Mac, Camino. It is small, fast to load, fast to render pages and has never crashed on me. I use it with the optional add-on CamiTools -- which includes Adblock and Flashblock. Camino combines Mozilla's Gecko rendering engine core with (unlike Firefox) a Cocoa Mac interface. It is not a port of a Windows or X11 application. It is a native Macintosh application. Give it a try.

http://caminobrowser.org/
http://www.nadamac.de/camitools/

Took you folks 20 years to get to pre-emptive multitasking. Don't think you've really got much room to be calling everyone else "filthy."

Also, you've apparently not heard of Gran Paradiso, which is a rebuild of Firefox from the ground up to use native Cocoa interfaces, or Camino, for that matter.

You're losing, numbnuts. Time for all you and all your cutting friends to bail out of Apple and move on to Amiga.

http://www.caminobrowser.org/

'nuff said.

Isn't this what Camino is for? Like, the very reason for its existence?

I.e., taking the Mozilla/Gecko codebase, and making a lean, fast browser with Mac widgets, tight Mac OS X integration, Keychain support, and so on?

I understand the goal of trying to get more Mac-specific functionality into Firefox, but with a fundamentally cross-platform browser, inasmuch as it goes, it's been harder to integrate platform-specific features and functionality into Firefox proper. That's the reason Camino was born: to be a more agile project that is focused on making such a browser for Mac OS X using Mozilla/Gecko. For folks who don't need specific Firefox functionality or Firefox extensions, Camino is already the answer.

Isn't this what Camino is for? Like, the very reason for its existence?

I.e., taking the Mozilla/Gecko codebase, and making a lean, fast browser with Mac widgets, tight Mac OS X integration, Keychain support, and so on?

I understand the goal of trying to get more Mac-specific functionality into Firefox, but with a fundamentally cross-platform browser, inasmuch as it goes, it's been harder to integrate platform-specific features and functionality into Firefox proper. That's the reason Camino was born: to be a more agile project that is focused on making such a browser for Mac OS X using Mozilla/Gecko. For folks who don't need specific Firefox functionality or Firefox extensions, Camino is already the answer.

I use Firefox on OS X, and my main issue is that it doesn't feel like a "proper Mac application". Certain things don't work like every other program.

I use firefox, because I prefer the wider selection of extensions and I actually prefer XPCOM, but hey... to each his own.

A few things I personally couldn't live without that are missing from this list

* VoodooPad - for general note taking, todo lists, etc
* TextMate - self explanatory
* Camino - for web surfing
* Paparazzi! - for taking quick screenshots or thumbnails of web pages
* Colloquy - irc client
* twitterific - interface for twitter
* NetNewsWire - Feed reader

Let's face it: Safari isn't bad, but Firefox (and other browsers for Mac) are quite a bit better.

If for no other reason than the plugins like AdBlock and NoScript, Firefox is terrific. That said, Safari really still only serves primarily for me as a springboard to getting Firefox installed. Sure there are a couple of remaing sites that require Safari (or IE on Windows, of course), but aside from that, there's little reason to use Safari IMHO.

Also noteworthy in Mac browser land are Camino (with CamiTools installed) and OmniGroup's OmniWeb are also quite good browsers--certainly light years better than IE.

The new beta, Camino 1.1b. - is really nice and has some new features - like built-in option of FlashBlock, Session restore, and others.

Camino 1.1b. is really really nice.

Camino 1.1b.

want "the apple experience"?

CAMINO, baby! (it's mozilla as well)

fastest OSX browser there is

http://www.caminobrowser.org/

What about Camino? I've been using it for months and it seems like the best of both worlds between Safari and Firefox. I haven't had the render and speed issues I've had with Safari, and its interface is much closer to the rest of Mac OS. It seems very stable for such an early revision.

Hmm. I've had the same experience actually.

Give Camino a try. It's a nice mix between Firefox and Safari.

"Since I upgraded to 10.4.8, Safari crashes on me about once a week. Forum advice was to run "repair permissions", I did but it didn't help. "

That seems to be the advice given for everything by some people. I'm not sure why anyone should think it would help in this case or many others.

I suppose you could try reinstalling the application after getting it off the install disc with Pacifist:

http://www.charlessoft.com/

before doing that you might also try removing Safari's preference file: com.apple.Safari.plist from the "Preferences" directory in your Home library, so that a new one is generated, in case there's a corruption in that causing problems. All this, again, is unspecific advice, but at least it's not Voodoo.

You might also like to try the Camino browser. That also uses Mozilla's Gecko engine, but has far better integration with the platform. It also uses a Safari-style bookmark manager:

http://www.caminobrowser.org/

I've used Opera and Firefox...neither work as well for me as Camino. Anyway, if I have to use an adblocker, It's not a welcoming community site. There's no place in my life for obtrusive ads, and I won't patronize the business of those who treat their customers in such a way.

You don't have the Mac developers to fix-up Firefox? Do you guys even talk to the Camino team? Even if you just borrowed Keychain support from them, Firefox would be a huge improvement on the Mac.

Are there better browsers out there? Again, without question.

May I ask what are those other browsers you're talking about? I am aware of 4 major browsers other than Firefox. Let's have a look at them and how they compare with firefox.

IE7 - It finally got tabs and a search box but still has crappy html and css standards support. Actually it's a little worse than MyIE for IE6. I'll pass.
Safari - Has a lot the basic features of a good browser and is very simple. Respects HTML and CSS standards. Has crappy PNG support (gamma correction) and for some reason scrolls slowly even on fast machines. It's a fine browser but I prefer Camino.
Konqueror - Although I have limited experience with this one, it looks like a good browser/file manager, but I am un-aware of any features (appart from passing that ACID2 test) that make it better than Firefox.
Opera - The only browser that is at least feature-wise better than firefox. But for some people Open Source actually matters. Though even with that into the equation, I can't really say which one is the better browser.

So, while you can argue and I might accept that opera is better than firefox, what are the other browsers that I've been missing that are better than the "overrated" firefox? Oh, and preferably opensource.

Give the camino browser a try - it uses the same Gecko engine that Firefox uses, with all the bells and whisles of Mac styling.

http://www.caminobrowser.org/

I've been using it since 1.0 and it was rock solid, truly. Haven't needed to fire up Firefox (which is ugly on the mac) or Safari.

Its also a Mozilla project.

K-Meleon (Windows), Camino (Mac OS X), and Epiphany (Linux, BSD, etc). They use the Gecko renderring engine, but cut some bloat and render the interface using a native GUI rather than via XUL.

Better still (..), create an OS X - only version of Firefox that has a look comparable to the current iTunes and all the other Tiger apps.

Actually, I think it's safe to say that Jon Hicks (the person you're talking about) is more of a Camino user than anything right now. He also made http://pimpmycamino.com.

...the standards that most people expect from well polished Apple software. It's not like F/OSS isn't up to the challenge, either... Just look at Firefox for the Mac.

Or better yet, Firefox's cousin, Camino. It's even more polished and integrated into the Mac UI than Firefox (one hazard of cross-platform applications is that they rarely feel 100% native on every platform), though that comes at the expense of not being able to run extensions.

Does it support all of Firefox's extensions?

Since you're on a Mac, why are you using Firefox when you could be using Safari instead? Honest question.

Are you honestly trying to say Firefox is a better browser than Safari? If you need specific sites that only work in Gecko, like Google Maps for the first week it was out, I can see why you'd want to keep something like Camino as a backup. But Firefox? It may be adequate for people used to the types of misanthropic interfaces prevalent on Windows and Linux, but among Mac applications, Firefox stands out for its mediocrity. Even Camino has problems rendering text without jagged, uneven kerning, not to mention "undead widget" syndrome.

No, I simply don't understand how anyone can reasonably say Firefox is a decent browser for day-to-day use, at least not when better options like Safari are available.

Camino doesnt support extensions.

From Camino FAQ

Q. Does Camino support Firefox extensions?
A. No, and it never will. Firefox extensions rely on XUL (a user interface toolkit made by the Mozilla Foundation) to interact with the user and draw their interface. Camino uses Cocoa (an interface toolkit made by Apple) and does not support XUL.

Also from the interview with Camino Project lead Mike Pinkerton

We recognize this is a problem for our users, but extensions only exist because of the cross-platform UI layer upon which Firefox is built. It's that same cross-platform UI layer that makes Firefox feel "wrong" on Mac OS X. Camino's use of Cocoa for the user interface makes it fit in with the rest of the platform, but prohibits us from using extensions. We feel this is a trade-off worth making. That said, we are investigating ways to allow non-user-interface extensions to register and work correctly.

All of Slashdotter's features are optional, and the extension is compatible with Firefox, the Mozilla Suite, Seamonkey, and Flock.

What about Camino? Don't forget the Mac fanatics!