Domain: cb-cda.gc.ca
Stories and comments across the archive that link to cb-cda.gc.ca.
Comments · 197
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Re:I hope Canada stands up to this and says NO:
It's not implied, it's explicit. Copying of music for personal use is entirely 100% legal in Canada
Correct. Citation here (warning, PDF), which states:
Before the Copyright Act was amended in 1998, copying a sound recording for almost any purpose infringed copyright, although, in practice, the prohibition was largely unenforceable. The amendment to the Act legalized the private copying of sound recordings of musical works
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Re:Start buying disk again?
Exactly! Most of the music/DVDs/software/games I buy physical copies of never leave their packaging, as soon as I own them I fire up BitTorrent/Gnutella/Warez forums and download myself a copy. I'm not exactly sure about the legality in the states under the DMCA but here in Canada it's 100% legal under the Private Copying section of the Copyright Act and the Computer Programs section if you want a rock-solid defense for backing up Software/Games to get "copies" by any methods you like as long as you actually own it. Also, even if the House of Commons or the Supreme Court makes it illegal up here, I really don't care. For me morality is more important than legality when it comes to stupid laws, if I've purchased a copy I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me that I can't grab myself a DRM-free version (besides, the RCMP hasn't and isn't going to be putting any effort into cracking down on piracy, and the ISPs up here don't seem to be doing anything beyond throttling). The day I give in to DRM is the day Microsoft goes open-source.
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Re:Start buying disk again?
Exactly! Most of the music/DVDs/software/games I buy physical copies of never leave their packaging, as soon as I own them I fire up BitTorrent/Gnutella/Warez forums and download myself a copy. I'm not exactly sure about the legality in the states under the DMCA but here in Canada it's 100% legal under the Private Copying section of the Copyright Act and the Computer Programs section if you want a rock-solid defense for backing up Software/Games to get "copies" by any methods you like as long as you actually own it. Also, even if the House of Commons or the Supreme Court makes it illegal up here, I really don't care. For me morality is more important than legality when it comes to stupid laws, if I've purchased a copy I'll be damned if anyone is going to tell me that I can't grab myself a DRM-free version (besides, the RCMP hasn't and isn't going to be putting any effort into cracking down on piracy, and the ISPs up here don't seem to be doing anything beyond throttling). The day I give in to DRM is the day Microsoft goes open-source.
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Re:They also blame us
Just read the copyright act. It's absolutely clear that it's legal to copy onto CDs (for which you've paid a levy, presumably). It's a little ambiguous about whether it's legal to copy onto other media. The source of the copy is irrelevant.
Here's the link for you: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#80
The ambiguity comes because of the definition of an "audio recording medium" in that paragraph. Look back a few pages and decide for yourself.
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Re:Comparisons???
Actually, it's legal for Canadians to download music from the Internet, but not to upload it.
See this section of Canada's Copyright Act : Copying for private use
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Re:Not quite...
Essentially the point in the scenarios above if that you've already
/paid/ for a "licence" at whatever prevailing rate the things costs.Incorrect. Any person can make a copy of any copyrighted musical work for their own personal use. It doesn't mean they can only copy things they already own, it doesn't matter if they've paid anything for it at all. You can come to my house and copy all my CDs, and so can everyone I know. You may also invite anyone to come to your house and make copies of your CDs, including the ones you copied from me. Making any copy of any recording for personal use is not infringement.
See the "Copying for Private Use" section of the Canadian Copyright Act:
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33770What I'm curious about is this;
The blank media levy was supposed to cover things like recoding from the radio. So what then is the functional differnce from me ripping a stream to mp3 and hitting record on the old tape deck?
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Re:Not quite...
Essentially the point in the scenarios above if that you've already
/paid/ for a "licence" at whatever prevailing rate the things costs.Incorrect. Any person can make a copy of any copyrighted musical work for their own personal use. It doesn't mean they can only copy things they already own, it doesn't matter if they've paid anything for it at all. You can come to my house and copy all my CDs, and so can everyone I know. You may also invite anyone to come to your house and make copies of your CDs, including the ones you copied from me. Making any copy of any recording for personal use is not infringement.
See the "Copying for Private Use" section of the Canadian Copyright Act: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33770
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Re:Not in Canada.
No, the law isn't "clear". There is a legal precedent about it. The law didn't change, so if you get sued, your lawyer has to quote a precedent, not the law as written in the books.
The Copyright Act is pretty clear about copying music. Methinks you are thinking about the P2P aspect of downloading, which involves redistribution via uploading. That part isn't clear and AFAIK remains in the grey zone since the 2004 supreme court decision that established "fair dealing" (not fair use!) as a user right, even though it was about photocopying.
However, if I download audio via http or ftp or some other conventional means, or borrow a friend's CD and rip it, that is private copying and is unequivocally NOT infringement. In fact, I pay about $0.21 per blank CD for the privilege.
Here's the relevant section from the Act: in short, copy from your friends' music collection all you want, just don't turn around and use it to make money. Unfortunately, that includes innocuous stuff like background music in a restaurant.
Copying for Private Use
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the act described in that subsection is done for the purpose of doing any of the following in relation to any of the things referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) to (c):
(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public.
1997, c. 24, s. 50. -
Re:how do counterfeiting and copyright
A copied song--as it was not produced by the authorized agent--could be considered "counterfeit."
Except that private copying of music is legal in Canada.
the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
Sonds to me like the assholes in power are trying to circumvent the laws for the benefit of American corporate interests..
Time to contact your Member of Parliament and express your displeasure. Snail mail works best, no stamp is needed. -
Re:Epic Fail?
The extension to murder implies that copying a music CD is inherently wrong - in the legal world, malum in se. Murder, rape, serious assaults - they cause harm, and are generally agreed to be wrong anywhere you go. I don't think that many people would agree that copying a CD causes direct harm to the copyright holder. If there is any harm at all, it can only be indirect - perhaps due to a loss of revenue. If that revenue loss to the copyright holder is made up by the state by a special tax, wherein is there any harm done at all?
There is actually some convincing evidence that suggests there is no link between music copying and a loss of revenue, even in countries where such copying is illegal and there is no tax. Often such copying is done by people who would never have purchased the "retail" CD anyway, even if they couldn't copy. There is evidence to suggest that copying by those people results in the wider dissemination of music to those who can (and do) then purchase it. If this is indeed the case, then the blank media tax is actually giving the music industry more money than they would have had even if there was no copying done at all.
Whether or not this is the case, the fact is that if someone who would never have purchased a CD copies it, there cannot be said to be any harm done to the copyright holder. The copyright holder has lost nothing. This can only ever be malum prohibitum.
In Canada, rather than empowering our government with more and more draconian measures to stop violations of laws with questionable underpinnings, we simply add a small tax to blank media. This is our way of indicating how much we value music makers, and remunerating them for what they provide us. No DMCA, no court system clogged by the RIAA suing disabled people or single mothers, just a quietly effective system that looks to me to be fair to all.
The sad thing, is that law makers in the United States are putting enormous pressure on our government to adopt a more American system. That would be a tragedy, and I hope that we hold out.
I do apologize for the misinformation about data/audio CDs. I seem to remember this distinction being made at some point, though, so that may be a change in more recent levies. I don't generally use blank CDs much for data nowadays anyway - I use DVD, which has no levy. In fact, I only ever use blank CDs for the occasional audio disc, so the levy works well in my case. -
Here is the Law: Copyright Act sec. 80
Just to be specific, and because I expect many don't know what levy you're talking about, here's the actual law that allows private copying in Canada:
1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.That is, as long as you aren't profiting off of the recording. So, since we pay about 22cents per blank CD, we have the right, nay, duty, to get our money's worth. I download about one album per 50 stack of CDR's, which is a pretty good deal for the industry.
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Re:I got all my Beatles music off of a private ftpJust for reference, the parent is citing the Canadian Copyright Act, section 80, subsection 1: Copying for Private Use
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording. Subsection 2 disclaims this privilege for renting, selling, or performing, as well as distribution. Thus, it is legal to make a copy of a friend's CD for your personal use, but not legal for your friend to make a copy of his CD for your personal use. Opinion has varied, but the general consensus (including that of the courts, IIRC) is that internet filesharing involves the recipient making the copy, which thus falls under subsection 1 but is not excluded by subsection 2.
Note that this section of the act applies specifically to audio recordings, and specifically to 'an audio recording medium', but since audio can be recorded onto pretty much any digital medium, I doubt that that qualifier makes that much of a difference. -
Re:I got all my Beatles music off of a private ftpJust for reference, the parent is citing the Canadian Copyright Act, section 80, subsection 1: Copying for Private Use
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording. Subsection 2 disclaims this privilege for renting, selling, or performing, as well as distribution. Thus, it is legal to make a copy of a friend's CD for your personal use, but not legal for your friend to make a copy of his CD for your personal use. Opinion has varied, but the general consensus (including that of the courts, IIRC) is that internet filesharing involves the recipient making the copy, which thus falls under subsection 1 but is not excluded by subsection 2.
Note that this section of the act applies specifically to audio recordings, and specifically to 'an audio recording medium', but since audio can be recorded onto pretty much any digital medium, I doubt that that qualifier makes that much of a difference. -
Re:Yes.
The link you've given was the French copy, noted by the 'f' in the URL:
act-f.html#80
The English version has an 'e' in it's place -
Re:Yes.
If I borrow a friend's music CD and copy that CD on to media purchased under the levy...
There's no requirement that you copy onto levied media. You can make a personal copy onto any audio recording medium. See the Copyright Act, it's not that hard to read. -
Re:CD Tax in Canada
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File_sharing_in_Canada
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html
"Both "ordinary" CD-Rs and CD-RWs and their "Audio" counterparts can be used to copy music, and both are commonly used for this purpose. In fact, in volume terms, most CDs used to copy music are "ordinary" CD-Rs and CD-RWs (subject to a levy of 21), not "Audio" products (subject to a levy of 77)."
However, this obviously doesnt apply to P2P, and most people dont burn music to CD's anymore, its from PC to MP3 Player, or some FlashMemory device...
So, the answer is "its been partially paid for", or possibly its even been entirely paid for, but the current implimention wont last long... -
Re:Thought crimes
here in Canada,... you are allowed to make a copy of virtually anything for personal, non-commercial use.
Perhaps you should check with a lawyer. I just skimmed the statue
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33389
and I see no such exception. In fact, the exceptions listed are very similar to the "fair use" examples in US law -- education, criticism, news reporting, and so on -- but there's no blanket "personal use" clause. -
Re:I thought copyright violation was civil law.
Not a lawyer, but Part V, section 42 of the Copyright Act lists criminal remedies as well as civil remedies.
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Re:I thought copyright violation was civil law.
Not a lawyer, but Part V, section 42 of the Copyright Act lists criminal remedies as well as civil remedies.
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Filesharing of music is legal in CanadaThis article is misleading. It's not illegal in Canada to copy music for personnal use since 1998. Shame on this journal for implying otherwise. Selling copy of copyrighted work is illegal, but still, filesharing do not fall into this category.
Before the Copyright Act was amended in 1998, copying any sound recording for almost any purpose infringed copyright, although, in practice, the prohibition was largely unenforceable. The amendment to the Act legalized private copying of sound recordings of musical works onto audio recording media - i.e., the copying of pre-recorded music for the private use of the person who makes the copy. In addition, the amendment made provision for the imposition of a levy on blank audio recording media to compensate authors, performers and makers who own copyright in eligible sound recordings being copied for private use.
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html -
Re:Precedent!(Since you're "that" lawyer, I will take the time to research my reply to you...
:) It's an honour to dialogue with you here, on Slashdot)...3. Congratulations. I'm happy for you that file sharing "has been determined to be legal" in your country.
It was not a "code" that was interpreted, but the privacy act. From what I gather, the discovery process cannot override privacy laws. But don't take my word for it, have a look at Pr. Michael Geist's take on it, and, while we're at it, the actual text of the decision (Citation: BMG Canada Inc. v. John Doe (F.C.), 2004 FC 488, [2004] 3 F.C.R. 241 -- Date: March 31, 2004 -- Docket: T-292-04).4. Question. Was the "determination" in a "code" or was it a judge's decision interpreting the code?
5. Question. Do you want the judge's decision to be "perpetuated", or would you rather leave it up to other judges to ignore it because it was "misguided"?
It can hardly be ignored, because it was a federal court decision, which do establish the state of federal laws.6. I am guessing that
File sharing is actually legal. The canadian copyright act provides for "private copy"; you can copy music you borrow from your friends and/or the library -- libraries are full of people ripping CDs on their laptops:
-it was a decision by a judge, because the "code" did not specify whether file sharing was legal or not, and[...]the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of [a sound recording] onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
See for yourself in the relevant section (80) of the actual law.-you would want other judges to follow that decision, rather than for each new case to be a guessing game as to what the judge's personal opinion will be.
No guessing game here! We're talking about federal law... :)7. People need to know, when they wake up in the morning, how to plan their lives so they don't run afoul of the law. They need to know what the law is, and can't have a random system where each judge's personal opinion is all that counts. And no legislator is so much of a prophet that he can write a code that will cover all eventualities. Sometimes one needs a judge to apply the law to the facts. So you see, the 2 systems are not so dissimilar after all. And you are not so different than the people you are attacking. You too, want good judicial decisions to be followed by future judges.
Of course they are not too different; there is jurisprudence in our civil code system, but new cases aren't crap shoots, they are carefully reviewed and applied to the relevant civil codes articles. And when necessary, the civil code gets updated.However, the main advantage of a civil code is that cases are very rarely murky so the outcome can be most often determined early enough to keep down litigation to an acceptable level.
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Re:Canadian Tariffs & International Jurisdicti
every person who, for the purpose of trade, manufactures a blank audio recording medium in Canada or imports such a medium into Canada is liable to pay a levy on selling or otherwise disposing of that medium in Canada,...
It is the importer/manufacturer who actually pays the levy. The cost is merely passed on to the consumer. If you are a consumer, you can freely buy blank media without levy charges from offshore sources. The same would apply to mp3 players which may fall under the tarriff soon.3. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the levy rates shall be
Quotes from the Copyright board of Canada website.
(a) 29 for each audio cassette of 40 minutes or more in length;
(b) 29 for each CD-R or CD-RW;
(c) 85 for each CD-R Audio, CD-RW Audio or MiniDisc;
(d) for removable electronic memory cards in the Secure Digital, MultiMedia, and Memory Stick formats with more than 256 MB of memory, $2 for each card with no more than 1 Gigabyte (GB) of memory,
$5 for each card with more than 1 GB and no more than 4 GB of memory,
and $10 for each card with more than 4 GB of memory;
(e) for digital audio recorders, $5 for each recorder with no more than 1 Gigabyte (GB) of memory,
$25 for each recorder with more than 1 GB and no more than 10 GB of memory,
$50 for each recorder with more than 10 GB and no more than 30 GB of memory,
and $75 for each recorder with more than 30 GB of memory. -
Re:Get Your Money's Worth
It's not to say that those who stick out can't be prosecuted, since copyright law supersedes this, however it does protect the average person from random litigation.
No, that's not right at all. Section 80 of the Copyright Act specifically legalizes copying for private use. Copyright law allows private copying.
The gist was 'we can't possibly sue everyone for copyright infringement, so we'll just levy the means by which to copy, and only pursue those that exceed the levy by a significant amount'
That might have been why the CRIA lobbyists originally supported this, but that's not part of the law. They got it legalized, so it's no longer copyright infringement. Read the law, or read the Copyright Board summary. -
Re:Get Your Money's Worth
It's not to say that those who stick out can't be prosecuted, since copyright law supersedes this, however it does protect the average person from random litigation.
No, that's not right at all. Section 80 of the Copyright Act specifically legalizes copying for private use. Copyright law allows private copying.
The gist was 'we can't possibly sue everyone for copyright infringement, so we'll just levy the means by which to copy, and only pursue those that exceed the levy by a significant amount'
That might have been why the CRIA lobbyists originally supported this, but that's not part of the law. They got it legalized, so it's no longer copyright infringement. Read the law, or read the Copyright Board summary. -
Re:A bit offtopicI believe that audio CD-R's were more expensive simply because not so many were produced. There is a levy on ALL blank recording media sold in Canada
See http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html for the list from copyright board of Canada.
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Re:Got Ethics? Perception of RIAA/CRIA vs. MPAA
IANAL, but at least the levy ought to give you the right to copy stuff.
It does. Canadians have a right to copy for private use. -
Seriously dude, Google is your friend...
I actually have no clue what point you've been trying to make, aside from acting like a child and making an ass of yourself, but whatever it was, you could have saved yourself the embarrassment with 2 minutes on Google and probably answered whatever questions you had.
Here's the English version of the government website: Canada Copyright Act (Section 80)
This states you're free to make yourself a private copy of a copyrighted work, so long as the intent is not one of: (a) selling/renting it (b) distributing (c) communicating to the public (d) performing to the public.
In idiot-speak: you can borrow your friend's CD and make yourself a copy; your friend can borrow your copy and make himself a copy; his friend can copy that copy -- all so long as the intent isn't distribution.
If the Act itself is not clear/detailed enough for you, and this is a topic you're actually fanatically interested in (as opposed to just being a means satisfying your urge to argue about topics you don't actually care about on Slashdot), then I'd suggest using Canada411 to look up a Canadian intellectual property lawyer who can answer your questions. -
CanadaIn Canada, making a copy for private use is allowed. Here's the government's explanation of the law.
The amendment to the Act legalized private copying of sound recordings of musical works onto audio recording media - i.e., the copying of pre-recorded music for the private use of the person who makes the copy.
In exchange we pay a levy on recordable media. -
Re:Stop with the Johnny Depp nonsenseFor starters, the movie and music companies are nasty and greedy multi-national conglomerates who would like nothing more than to force every consumer into a rental model for their media so that they have a nice, regular revenue stream for basically doing nothing. All that piracy does here is to give those same companies the justification they need to do what they were going to do anyway - it just makes it easier for them to do it because piracy turns it into a political agenda meaning that governments can get involved in pushing DRM and the like through. I agree, and to be blunt thats why I have not bought a single CD (Sony Rootkit Fiasco), gone to see a single movie since the original Matrix one (movies are usually full of trash and feature overpayed stars thus inflating the price of the tickets) and do not really collect DVDs (though other people in the house do).
Now if only I could stop them from collecting levies on blank media then I could honestly say I can give a flying fuck about their piracy issues. As it stands I'm basically paying for their legal machine everytime I buy some CD's to burn the latest linux distributions on. -
Re:Nothing mentioned about DVD-R
All "levy" means as a verb (in this case) is "to collect". "Levy" as a noun is whatever is being collected. As the Canadian government is issuing the "levy" on behalf of their versions of the **IA, I wouldn't argue with it being called a tax. Also, from my link to the Copyright Board of Canada website:
The Board concluded in the decision issued today that recordable and rewritable DVDs, removable memory cards (such as SmartMedia, CompactFlash and Secure Digital Memory cards) and removable micro hard drives are not ordinarily used by individuals for the purpose of copying music at this time. Therefore, these media are not subject to a levy. -
Re:Huh?Well, if you want to call it "getting a free pass" that's your prerogative. You are assuming a cause and effect relationship between the levy applied to blank media (which I recall paying on blank cassette tapes twenty-five years ago) and the judge's interpretation of Canadian Copyright Act that I don't think is accurate or - frankly - relevant. Downloading songs off P2P networks is legal in Canada. This is not some loop-hole or a concession made to justify the (in my opinion deplorable) tax on blank media. It is Canadian law. (From one of those Wikipedia articles everyone loves so much: "Contrary to popular belief, the private use grant can be implemented independent of the levy system, since the rights granted by private use clause is already covered by fair dealing." If you don't think Wikipedia is a reliable source, you are welcome to read the Canadian Copyright Act yourself).
The act of putting a file in a directory(or uploading to a shred server) where others can get at it is not a crime
In the opinion of Judge Finckenstein, this is true.The act of downloading it is a different matter entirely.
You are correct, downloading a file is a different thing than putting it in a shared folder. That does not change the fact that it is legal in Canada.Again, Canadian rules specifically allow that, on the assumption that people will be pirates, so they've been charged in advance for it. How many other countries have rules like this?
Quite a few, apparently. -
Re:Media feesYou are mistaken, blank CD's for "data" ARE covered.
From the Copyright Board of Canada's web site http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html the following forms of blank recording media are subject to the levy:-
Analog Audio Cassette Tapes:
CD-R and CD-RW:
CD-R Audio and CD-RW Audio:
MiniDisc:
Non-Removable Memory Permanently Embedded in a Digital Audio Recorder: -
Re:Media fees
All blank CDROMS, CDRWs are covered by the tarif.
Blank regular CDs are levied 29 cents, Audio CDs are levied 77 cents per. See http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html or your above linked Wikipedia page -
Re:Media fees
It's not a fee, it's a tax. It is to compensate those industries hurt by piracy, not to give you a license to pirate.
In Canada, it's a fee. The Copyright Act is quite clear about this. You can read a very clear
description of this on the Copyright Board of Canada's web site. (I know it's hard to believe a bureaucracy like that would write clearly!)
In particular, "The amendment to the Act legalized private copying of sound recordings of musical works onto audio recording media - i.e., the copying of pre-recorded music for the private use of the person who makes the copy. In addition, the amendment made provision for the imposition of a levy on blank audio recording media to compensate authors, performers and makers who own copyright in eligible sound recordings being copied for private use." -
get off your arse and write a letterIn the publication:
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/tariffs/proposed/c10022007 -b.pdf In accordance with the provisions of the same subsection, the
Board hereby gives notice that any person who wishes to object to
the statement may file written objections with the Board, at the
address indicated below, within 60 days of the publication of this
notice, that is, no later than April 11, 2007.
CLAUDE MAJEAU
Secretary General
56 Sparks Street, Suite 800
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 0C9
613-952-8621 (telephone)
613-952-8630 (fax)
majeau.claude@cb-cda.gc.ca (email) So, if you're Canadian, get off your arse and write a letter... -
Why not protest the Tariff application right now?
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/tariffs/proposed/c1002200
7 -b.pdf
Download it, read it, then reply to the address on page 1 why you object to it
"any person who wishes to object to the statement may file written objections with the Board, at the address indicated below, within 60 days of the publication of this notice, that is no later than April 11, 2007" -
A slice of canadian life.
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Re:Due SouthYou're mistaken, the tax is not only on CD's. If you look at the Copyright Board of Canada's web site at http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html they have a list of media.
"What specific forms of blank recording media are subject to the levy? Analog Audio Cassette Tapes:
CD-R and CD-RW:
CD-R Audio and CD-RW Audio:
MiniDisc:
Non-Removable Memory Permanently Embedded in a Digital Audio Recorder:
"
So as a Canadian, I believe in getting my money's worth from the Piracy tax.
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Re:what?
No, it's Levy paid to CRIA for blank CD's and audio tapes (not HDDs or DVDs), but you can't be sued for downloading music or videos.
I am not a lawyer!
I'm sorry, but I've been pouring through the Canadian Copyright Act, and I cannot find anything which substantiates your claim. This is the only clause I can find which is relevant to this situation, but please tell me if I've missed something. (Edit: now that I am done writing this comment I am no longer as sure as when I started, so please read to the end)
From http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#80: (emphasis mine)
Copying for Private Use
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the act described in that subsection is done for the purpose of doing any of the following in relation to any of the things referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) to (c):
(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public.
1997, c. 24, s. 50.Now, the first thing to notice here is that this only applies to musical works, not videos. Next, this only allows copying onto an "audio recording medium," defined as:
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#79
"audio recording medium" means a recording medium, regardless of its material form, onto which a sound recording may be reproduced and that is of a kind ordinarily used by individual consumers for that purpose, excluding any prescribed kind of recording medium;
The last sentence seems somewhat badly phrased, those of you who know french may agree that it is worded better on the french version of the page: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-f.html#79
"support audio" Tout support audio habituellement utilisé par les consommateurs pour reproduire des enregistrements sonores, à l'exception toutefois de ceux exclus par règlement.
Now, I don't know if there are recording mediums which are excluded (or "exclus par règlement"), but disregarding that, my (possibly unqualified) judgement suggests to me that HDDs would count as "ordinarily used by individual consumers for that purpose," especially since many portable music players use them to store music.
Another important insight is that this only covers the case in which you make a copy of a work for your own private use. This leads me to believe that, for example, I could make a copy of my friend's music disk and use it myself, but it would be copyright infringement for him to make the copy and give it to me. Together with paragraphs (2) (b) and (c), this leads me to believe that it is not permitted for you to download music for the purpose of sharing it through the p2p service. Perhaps if the p2p aplication does not permit you to disable uploading you can say it was not your purpose to upload the music? Maybe you can say this in any case? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Now that I've looked at it so closely, however,
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Re:what?
No, it's Levy paid to CRIA for blank CD's and audio tapes (not HDDs or DVDs), but you can't be sued for downloading music or videos.
I am not a lawyer!
I'm sorry, but I've been pouring through the Canadian Copyright Act, and I cannot find anything which substantiates your claim. This is the only clause I can find which is relevant to this situation, but please tell me if I've missed something. (Edit: now that I am done writing this comment I am no longer as sure as when I started, so please read to the end)
From http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#80: (emphasis mine)
Copying for Private Use
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the act described in that subsection is done for the purpose of doing any of the following in relation to any of the things referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) to (c):
(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public.
1997, c. 24, s. 50.Now, the first thing to notice here is that this only applies to musical works, not videos. Next, this only allows copying onto an "audio recording medium," defined as:
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#79
"audio recording medium" means a recording medium, regardless of its material form, onto which a sound recording may be reproduced and that is of a kind ordinarily used by individual consumers for that purpose, excluding any prescribed kind of recording medium;
The last sentence seems somewhat badly phrased, those of you who know french may agree that it is worded better on the french version of the page: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-f.html#79
"support audio" Tout support audio habituellement utilisé par les consommateurs pour reproduire des enregistrements sonores, à l'exception toutefois de ceux exclus par règlement.
Now, I don't know if there are recording mediums which are excluded (or "exclus par règlement"), but disregarding that, my (possibly unqualified) judgement suggests to me that HDDs would count as "ordinarily used by individual consumers for that purpose," especially since many portable music players use them to store music.
Another important insight is that this only covers the case in which you make a copy of a work for your own private use. This leads me to believe that, for example, I could make a copy of my friend's music disk and use it myself, but it would be copyright infringement for him to make the copy and give it to me. Together with paragraphs (2) (b) and (c), this leads me to believe that it is not permitted for you to download music for the purpose of sharing it through the p2p service. Perhaps if the p2p aplication does not permit you to disable uploading you can say it was not your purpose to upload the music? Maybe you can say this in any case? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Now that I've looked at it so closely, however,
-
Re:what?
No, it's Levy paid to CRIA for blank CD's and audio tapes (not HDDs or DVDs), but you can't be sued for downloading music or videos.
I am not a lawyer!
I'm sorry, but I've been pouring through the Canadian Copyright Act, and I cannot find anything which substantiates your claim. This is the only clause I can find which is relevant to this situation, but please tell me if I've missed something. (Edit: now that I am done writing this comment I am no longer as sure as when I started, so please read to the end)
From http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#80: (emphasis mine)
Copying for Private Use
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the act described in that subsection is done for the purpose of doing any of the following in relation to any of the things referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) to (c):
(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public.
1997, c. 24, s. 50.Now, the first thing to notice here is that this only applies to musical works, not videos. Next, this only allows copying onto an "audio recording medium," defined as:
http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#79
"audio recording medium" means a recording medium, regardless of its material form, onto which a sound recording may be reproduced and that is of a kind ordinarily used by individual consumers for that purpose, excluding any prescribed kind of recording medium;
The last sentence seems somewhat badly phrased, those of you who know french may agree that it is worded better on the french version of the page: http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-f.html#79
"support audio" Tout support audio habituellement utilisé par les consommateurs pour reproduire des enregistrements sonores, à l'exception toutefois de ceux exclus par règlement.
Now, I don't know if there are recording mediums which are excluded (or "exclus par règlement"), but disregarding that, my (possibly unqualified) judgement suggests to me that HDDs would count as "ordinarily used by individual consumers for that purpose," especially since many portable music players use them to store music.
Another important insight is that this only covers the case in which you make a copy of a work for your own private use. This leads me to believe that, for example, I could make a copy of my friend's music disk and use it myself, but it would be copyright infringement for him to make the copy and give it to me. Together with paragraphs (2) (b) and (c), this leads me to believe that it is not permitted for you to download music for the purpose of sharing it through the p2p service. Perhaps if the p2p aplication does not permit you to disable uploading you can say it was not your purpose to upload the music? Maybe you can say this in any case? I don't know, I'm not a lawyer. Now that I've looked at it so closely, however,
-
Re:Fuckin' A Right!From the Copyright Board of Canada's web site http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html
"Before the Copyright Act was amended in 1998, copying any sound recording for almost any purpose infringed copyright, although, in practice, the prohibition was largely unenforceable. The amendment to the Act legalized private copying of sound recordings of musical works onto audio recording media - i.e., the copying of pre-recorded music for the private use of the person who makes the copy."
So it's legal to make personal copies of music in Canada.
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Re:Missing information
"Contary to common belief, especially among teachers, there no law natural or otherwise that allows them unfettered use of other people's work."
See here, under exceptions to Copyright infringement. That'd be enough to already do anything that anyone would reasonably want under the AC proposal.
Access Copyright adds absolutely nothing to this except possibly wresting control of copyright from ACTUAL copyright holders.
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Re:Great idea
They can be used, does not they must be used. There are so many other uses of CDs that it's pretty much impossible to charge a levy. When you look at audio cassettes, there are very few uses apart from recording audio, so it's easy to argue that a levy should be charged. If there is a levy in Canada, how much is it? Because I can go to the local discount computer store and get 50 CDs for $12. That works out to $0.24 for each CD. The Canadian copyright board states that they levy on CDRs is supposed to be $0.21 per CD ($0.77 for CDR-Audio). I find it highly unlikely that the levy is being charged, and that I'm only paying $0.03 per CD including retail markup, transportation, manufacturing, and all the other costs of delivering CDRs to the end user. Also, to reiterate, there is absolutely no levy on DVD+/-Rs.
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Not illegal, eh?
"Among teens aged 12 to 17 who were polled, 69 percent said they thought it was legal to copy a CD from a friend who purchased the original."
If those 69% of students live in Canada and the copy is for personal use, they are correct. You can legally make a copy of whatever music you wish, as long as you don't distribute it, publicly perform it, or sell it.
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Canada vs. Itself
So, lemme get this straight... I'm paying taxes that fund copyright holders' (specifically, SOCAN) efforts to make more money while I'm still paying a blank media tax that already puts money directly into those same copyright holders' (SOCAN) pockets? Sweet deal
;) -
Re:not to compensate for downloads
Well, as a Canadian, I'm interested in the tax on blank media. So after a couple of minutes on the Copyright Board of Canada's web site at http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/info/act-e.html#rid-33760 I've found:-
Copying for Private Use
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
So copying for private use (no selling or re-broadcasting) is not a copyright infringement in Canada. So I'll keep paying the tax on the blank media and downloading music (for personal use) onto that media.
Take that, Captain Copyright. -
Summary 'Incorrect'
Under Canadian Copyright Law, it's perfectly legal to download music without paying for it.
See?
Actively uploading, however, does violate our Copyright Law. This has been brought up here so many times, I'm not going to bother posting links to previous /. articles. -
Re:Emusic is cool but there are many great others
All of MP3 may be "somewhat" legal in Russia but it is fully-non legal for Americans (or Canadians, Australians, and anybody else who is lives in a country that's signed on with international copyright laws) to buy music from them, as it says outright in their terms of service.
I don't see any mention of Canada there, just a vague statement that it's up to you to figure out whether it is legal in your country. In fact, Canadians have a right to make copies for private use. This is what the levy on blank media pays for. -
Re:Emusic is cool but there are many great others
All of MP3 may be "somewhat" legal in Russia but it is fully-non legal for Americans (or Canadians, Australians, and anybody else who is lives in a country that's signed on with international copyright laws) to buy music from them, as it says outright in their terms of service.
I don't see any mention of Canada there, just a vague statement that it's up to you to figure out whether it is legal in your country. In fact, Canadians have a right to make copies for private use. This is what the levy on blank media pays for.