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Canadian ISPs Send Thousands of Copyright Notices

Posted by Zonk on from the you-there-off-the-internets dept.

An anonymous reader writes "The CBC reports that Canadian Internet service providers are passing along thousands of copyright infringement notifications to their customers. These notices are coming, not from Canada, but from US copyright lobby groups such as the Business Software Alliance under a system called notice and notice. Michael Geist comments that unlike the U.S. takedown approach, the Canadian system is proving effective while protecting privacy and free speech. Downloaders take the hint, and alter their behavior before they receive a more serious letter in the mail."

184 comments

  1. Those serious letters are no joke by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I got one once. ONCE.

  2. First, how do they avoid these messages being ... by ArsenneLupin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... caught in the users' spamfilters?

  3. Altering behavior... by rovingeyes · · Score: 3, Insightful
    "Downloaders take the hint, and alter their behavior..."

    By altering behavior, if they mean using encryption, poxies, tor etc etc then it is a welcome change.

    1. Re:Altering behavior... by shmlco · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Have to wonder how this works in a "home" situation where the kid has download tons of crap in the basement and his parents get the notice. Bet there's some potential for "behavior alteration" there...

      --
      Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
    2. Re:Altering behavior... by daeg · · Score: 5, Funny

      That's what belts are for.

    3. Re:Altering behavior... by QuickFox · · Score: 1

      That's what belts are for. Belts? Belts? You kids today, you don't know how good you've got it. Back in my day they used baseball bats, beating us uphill both ways through the snow and we were grateful!
      --
      Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
    4. Re:Altering behavior... by rossz · · Score: 1

      You had snow! Luxury! Back in my day we didn't get to wade through the snow during our beating so we didn't get the nice numbing effect. You kids today have it too easy.

      --
      -- Will program for bandwidth
    5. Re:Altering behavior... by CABAN · · Score: 2, Funny

      I am Canadian. I received a notice from my ISP because my wife downloaded an MP3, something she rarely does because I subscribe to Napster.

      We altered our behavior by not doing it again. Piracy is theft.

    6. Re:Altering behavior... by gobbo · · Score: 2, Informative

      I am Canadian. I received a notice from my ISP because my wife downloaded an MP3, something she rarely does because I subscribe to Napster. We altered our behavior by not doing it again. Piracy is theft.

      Well, if you're canadian, and you've paid for cassette tapes or blank CD's, then you've paid a levy that goes back to artists (in theory and law). You can download mp3's, it ISN'T piracy, it's just like borrowing a CD from a friend to copy a song--it's allowed, and you're paying for it. You cannot, however, upload or redistribute that copy (which some software does by default). And even if you were engaging in copyright infringement, it certainly wouldn't be theft, since you are not claiming to be the author.

      If you're curious, here's the relevant section from section 8 of the copyright act:

      80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of (a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording, (b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or (c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
      --
      Damn those pesky terrorists
  4. Media fees by Joe+The+Dragon · · Score: 4, Interesting

    So what are the fees that people pay for media for?

    1. Re:Media fees by Bin+Naden · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So what are the fees that people pay for media for?

      Protection money.

      --
      There should be a "-1:Groupthink"
    2. Re:Media fees by stratjakt · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's not a fee, it's a tax. It is to compensate those industries hurt by piracy, not to give you a license to pirate.

      Your logic goes as follows:

      "tax money goes to womens relief shelters, I pay taxes, therefore I have the right to beat and rape women."

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:Media fees by m0rph3us0 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It's not a tax, it is a levy.

      Because you can't levy an illegal activity with out a conviction they had to make personal copying of music legal.

      The levy currently applies to recording media for audio. I believe it is something like 15 cents per tape , and 25 cents per "Audio CD". Normal blank CDs for "data" are not covered by this levy.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_copying_levy# Canada

      It's already gone to court and in Canada P2P is legal for music.

      The rest of the IP spectrum is still off limits.

    4. Re:Media fees by Fulcrum+of+Evil · · Score: 1

      It is to compensate those industries hurt by piracy, not to give you a license to pirate.

      What industries are those? The effect of piracy is minimal at best and positive in many cases.

      --
      "We returned the General to El Salvador, or maybe Guatemala, it's difficult to tell from 10,000 feet"
    5. Re:Media fees by --daz-- · · Score: 2, Interesting

      But the reality is more like this:

      Greedy Media Companies bilk consumers, consumers get angry and frustrated, turn to piracy to get the products they want, GMC's continue bilking, but now lobby Gov't for extra fees and taxes to recoup cost of piracy thus bilking consumers EVEN MORE and driving them to pirate more, etc, etc, etc...

      The GMC's have created an artificial problem because they have essentially monopolized content distribution and colluded to create a huge barrier to entry where a consumer's only choice becomes to buy, not to buy, or to pirate.

      Fortunately the Internet has helped with the Barrier to Entry problem, but, unfortunately, dramatically increased piracy.

      The GMC's could solve the problem of piracy very easily, while simultaneously increasing good will of consumers (and therefore number of purchases and therefore profits) but they simply choose not to -- instead content to bilk the consumer and punish them for considering any alternative.

    6. Re:Media fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If life were only so easy where anything is a spiffy and easy to swallow analogy.

      But no. We all pay taxes to the rich, greedy RIAA-equivalent. Taxes are to provide a benefit to society, these plainly do not -- they are a special interest group that bribed politicians. In order to get a benefit, the people might as well pirate. Taxes are not automatically morale or immorale in themselves and if people see fit to pirate because of this tax, so be it, the music companies were asking for it as they are getting compensated already.

    7. Re:Media fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      >It's not a fee, it's a tax. It is to compensate those industries hurt by piracy, not to give you a license to pirate.

      Incorrect in so many ways.

      a) It's a levy, not a tax.

      b) It is not to compensate industries hurt by piracy.

      c) It is to compensate artists for the new right of Canadians to make copies of copyrighted material for their own private use. A specific example would be the new right to take a CD from a library, make a copy of it, and return it.

      >"tax money goes to womens relief shelters, I pay taxes, therefore I have the right to beat and rape women."

      Also incorrect, in that this levy gives you a specific legal right to make copies of copyrighted material at home. It is not an implied right, as you would suggest, but a right that actually overrides the older copyright law.

    8. Re:Media fees by saskboy · · Score: 1

      What about Access Copyright? Are there fees charged to places like libraries with a photocopier, an OK for people to photocopy books?

      --
      Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
    9. Re:Media fees by TubeSteak · · Score: 1

      It's already gone to court and in Canada P2P is legal for music.

      The rest of the IP spectrum is still off limits.
      To complete the thought: That is why these notices are for games and software.

      I guess it doesn't matter whether the notices have any legal weight if they scare people into not downloading.
      --
      [Fuck Beta]
      o0t!
    10. Re:Media fees by inoyb · · Score: 3, Informative

      The levy currently applies to recording media for audio. I believe it is something like 15 cents per tape , and 25 cents per "Audio CD". Normal blank CDs for "data" are not covered by this levy. Normal CDs are covered. In fact it's mentioned in the link you included. They're 21 cents.

      It's already gone to court and in Canada P2P is legal for music. The court case concluded that it was legal to download. It is still considered illegal to upload.
    11. Re:Media fees by djmurdoch · · Score: 1

      It's not a fee, it's a tax. It is to compensate those industries hurt by piracy, not to give you a license to pirate.

      In Canada, it's a fee. The Copyright Act is quite clear about this. You can read a very clear
      description of this on the Copyright Board of Canada's web site. (I know it's hard to believe a bureaucracy like that would write clearly!)

      In particular, "The amendment to the Act legalized private copying of sound recordings of musical works onto audio recording media - i.e., the copying of pre-recorded music for the private use of the person who makes the copy. In addition, the amendment made provision for the imposition of a levy on blank audio recording media to compensate authors, performers and makers who own copyright in eligible sound recordings being copied for private use."

    12. Re:Media fees by rikkards · · Score: 1

      It is legal to download Music but that's it. Software and Video is not.

    13. Re:Media fees by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Yes. Agreements of that type give library patrons a license to photocopy material, within the limits of the agreement.

      Ever ordered a paper from the library? They give you a photocopy....

      Having said that, the printed copyright agreements that libraries subscribe to are not government instituted levies, they're license agreements.

    14. Re:Media fees by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

      Yep. Specifically, I pay $1.65 CAD per term on my tuition for the CanCopy fee, which covers me photocopying journal articles or whatever from the library...I know there are restrictions on that, like how much of a certain publication I can copy, but I forget exactly what the restrictions are. As well, profs who want to photocopy copyrighted material for course notes or handouts can do the same thing, and the fee gets added to the cost of the course notes.

      I don't know how this affects public libraries, but I assume they have something similar in place.

    15. Re:Media fees by multisync · · Score: 1

      The court case concluded that it was legal to download. It is still considered illegal to upload.


      From a comment I posted a while back:

      The Canadian Copyright Board ruled in 2003 that Canadians were entitled to download files off p2p networks, but sharing files was illegal. The following year, Judge Konrad von Finckenstein denied the CRIA's request to force ISPs to provide the names of 29 customers accused of file sharing, and commented that putting files in a shared folder did not violate Canada's copyright laws either


      I realize the article is from 2004 but, as far as I know, this ruling still stands.

      And as for the person who commented earlier that this is a "levy," not a "tax," give me a break. The government is collecting 21 cents on every blank cd sold - amounting to half the purchase price the last time I bought a spindle. The fact they are funneling the money to the CRIA is irrelevant from the perspective of the consumer; "levy" or "tax" it's all the same to me when I'm coughing up the coin.

      What the hell blank cds have to do with downloading music from P2P networks is beyond me. Do people really sit there burning shitty sounding mp3s of even shittier music on to discs? If that's your thing, good for you. But I'm tired of paying extortion to the CRIA to subsidize it.
      --
      I don't care why you're posting AC
    16. Re:Media fees by mrmcwn · · Score: 1

      Downloading and making copies for personal use is legal. Making available (uploading) or making copies for distribution (for profit or otherwise) is not really legal, although I'm not sure if it has been tested. (NAL)

    17. Re:Media fees by Kadin2048 · · Score: 1

      "tax money goes to womens relief shelters, I pay taxes, therefore I have the right to beat and rape women."

      Is there a Godwin's Law for wife-beating? Because there should be.

      --
      "Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
    18. Re:Media fees by Digital+Vomit · · Score: 1

      Your logic goes as follows: "tax money goes to womens relief shelters, I pay taxes, therefore I have the right to beat and rape women."

      Umm, no. Your analogy would be more appropriate if it was more like this:

      "The government put me in jail for a few years because I have a penis and therefor may have raped someone, therefore I have the right to rape someone."

      Then again, that's assuming piracy hurts sales and that the money from the blank media levy actually went to compensate industries hurt by piracy, neither of which are true, according to the evidence we have.

      --
      Modern copyright is theft of culture from everyone and it retards the progress of the useful arts and sciences.
    19. Re:Media fees by dryeo · · Score: 1

      All blank CDROMS, CDRWs are covered by the tarif.
      Blank regular CDs are levied 29 cents, Audio CDs are levied 77 cents per. See http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html or your above linked Wikipedia page

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    20. Re:Media fees by Steve+Newall · · Score: 1
      You are mistaken, blank CD's for "data" ARE covered.



      From the Copyright Board of Canada's web site http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c20032004fs-e.html the following forms of blank recording media are subject to the levy:-



      Analog Audio Cassette Tapes:

      CD-R and CD-RW:

      CD-R Audio and CD-RW Audio:

      MiniDisc:

      Non-Removable Memory Permanently Embedded in a Digital Audio Recorder:

    21. Re:Media fees by wiredlogic · · Score: 1

      Normal CDs are covered. In fact it's mentioned in the link you included. They're 21 cents.

      The GP is confused with the US levies which only apply to DAT and Audio-CDRs.

      --
      I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
    22. Re:Media fees by camperdave · · Score: 1

      It is legal to download Music but that's it. Software and Video is not.

      I wonder why there is a distinction. It's all data. It's downloaded the same way. It's burned the same way.

      Makes no sense to me, so I'll keep on time shifting my shows via the internet.

      --
      When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
    23. Re:Media fees by gradster79 · · Score: 1

      "tax money goes to womens relief shelters, I pay taxes, therefore I have the right to beat and rape women." Women's shelters are a public government run service. The "media fees" go to private corporations. There is a huge difference. Since when does a private corporation get to asses taxes, which is what I see this as.

    24. Re:Media fees by it0 · · Score: 1

      In the netherlands it's okay to download music, video and books but not proprietary software.

      The difference is that music, video and books are seen as form of art and should reach as many people as possible but also should be available in years to come, that's the general idea.

      Uploading is ofcourse wrong in all cases.

    25. Re:Media fees by rikkards · · Score: 1

      I wonder why there is a distinction. It's all data. It's downloaded the same way. It's burned the same way.

      Makes no sense to me, so I'll keep on time shifting my shows via the internet.


      I believe it was something lobbied by the CRIA (the equivalent to the RRIA in Canada). Their interest is purely for music.
    26. Re:Media fees by kibbylow · · Score: 1

      What are the fees paid when you download an mp3 or a movie? Is there a levy on the ISP's bandwidth? Is there a levy when you upload on your mp3 to listen? Do you want levies on these products as well?

    27. Re:Media fees by C0R1D4N · · Score: 1

      I'm slightly confused here. It's legal to borrow a CD from someone and copy the music since you paid a levy for the blank disc. How is uploading any different than being the person loaning the original CD?

    28. Re:Media fees by jp10558 · · Score: 1

      That's more than the average media cost in the US, which is down to ~$0.20 per blank in bulk (100+).

      --
      Opera, Proxomitron-Grypen,GPG 0x0A1C6EE3
    29. Re:Media fees by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Looking quickly in a local flyer, Fujifilm 50 pack of CD-R is $24.99 so after levy about 21 cents CDN. For comparison Maxwell 100 pack 16x DVD +R is $31.99.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  5. Re:First, how do they avoid these messages being . by GiovanniZero · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I dunno but hopefully the subpoena will also be caught in the spam filter...and all the fines

    --
    Mod me up, mod me down, do your worst you modding clown.
  6. Is downloading illegal in Canada? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

    WTF I thought it was legal to download there...you just couldn't upload.

    1. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by Teresita · · Score: 1

      It's a bluff notice that won't stand up in court the first time a downloader calls bolshevik.

    2. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by grolschie · · Score: 1

      As far as I can tell, in Canada, because of the levy on blank CD, etc, it is perfectly legal to copy from original music media (i.e. copying a friend's CD) for private non-commercial use, but it is not legal to distribute the copy. So your friend cannot copy the CD for you, and then give you that copy. You need to make your own copy from the original by borrowing the original CD for example. Technically when downloading via P2P, you are receiving a copy i.e. not the original media, so this would be in breach of this.

    3. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by codegen · · Score: 1

      WTF I thought it was legal to download there...you just couldn't upload.
      True for music, not true for movies and software.
      --
      Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
    4. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I believe this was actually tested in court. You do not need to make a copy from the original -- the only requirement is that YOU make the copy, for YOUR use (otherwise you're distributing). P2P is fine, because technically you are not making the copy, the guy downloading is. Posting on your web page is a bit more of a gray area though. E-mailing a file to someone is probably a no no.

    5. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by grolschie · · Score: 1

      How is this controlled? I mean do the copies have to be made using media bought in Canada that had the levy? Or can one cross the border from the USA and download as many files onto a USA bought mp3 player and return home with them?

    6. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      It's not controlled. Legally it's not really a matter of "you pay the levy so you can copy music." When the copyright act was revised to include the right to copy for private purposes and the provision that a levy would be collected to compensate the music industry. I suppose you could nip over the border to buy your MP3 player, and some people undoubtedly do, but it's not really worth it.

      Now, can an American come here, download a bunch of songs and then go back? I think that would probably be illegal (in the US). You'd be importing infringing material.

    7. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by grolschie · · Score: 1

      Now, can an American come here, download a bunch of songs and then go back? I think that would probably be illegal (in the US). You'd be importing infringing material.
      Interesting. I see it slightly different to importing MP3s from allofmp3.com (a case where the copyright holders are seething) or buying bootleg CDs while holidaying in countries where copyright infringement is rampant. Seemingly, whilst in Canada the copies are legally 'ok' with the copyright holders - i.e. not infringing in any manner whatsoever.

      If I lived in Canada, aquired a heap of music, then moved to the USA or anywhere else, would I be in the crap if I brought my music collection? Afterall, I would've paid levies for years, hypothetically speaking. How is that different from buying from an online CD store offshore? I am not in the US, and in my country we can parallel import pretty much anything that's not contraband.
    8. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      I think that last bit is what gets you -- the US probably regards those mp3s or copied CDs as contraband. The copyright holders are definitely not okay with us Canadians copying music either, but they have very little choice -- the courts told them to quit their whining (not that they HAVE).

    9. Re:Is downloading illegal in Canada? by grolschie · · Score: 1

      Enjoy it while you can I say!! :-)

  7. Altered Behavior by Apocalypse111 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Alter their behavior? Like installing Peer Guardian? Or maybe a Tor client? Or perhaps just opening up a WAP?

    What do these US lobby groups (note: not law enforcement agencies) think they can do against Canadian citizens?

    --
    There is no mod option "-1: Disagree" for a reason. "Overrated" is not an acceptable substitute. Post something instead.
    1. Re:Altered Behavior by phalkon30 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I see many people recommending Peer Guradian, but I question its usefulness. From past experience, it blocked many sites that I found useful, and tended not to block a whole lot else. Because it relies on user submited IP's. From their website: "How safe is PeerGuardian, really? Well, it is accurate in the sense that it blocks everything on your blocklist. It is impossible to know _all_ the addresses to block so while it will increase your safety to a good extent, it can never be perfect." IMO its like sticking your head in the sand and hoping noone sees you.

    2. Re:Altered Behavior by stratjakt · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Exact same thing they can do to American citizens. They could take you to court.

      This "US lobby group" shit is slashdot spin to whip you into an anti-US frenzy. Arrr how dare bush interfere!

      The BSA is an international group, and the BSA certainly had a presence in Canada when I lived there.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    3. Re:Altered Behavior by mark-t · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      Quite a lot... there are a lot of Canadian companies that are extremely interested in sucking up to the US, as the US is viewed by many Canadians as Canada's primary trading partner.

      Canada's even officially following the US's DST change... all for the interests of "harmony".

      I really don't know why they don't just slap a US flag on it and call it the 51st state already.

      --
      File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
    4. Re:Altered Behavior by Tiger+Smile · · Score: 1

      For one thing they can back the people who will do what they want. Money = votes, sadly. People are often swayed by twisted words or a charismatic figure. People are far to wrapped up in their daily lives to understand what qualifications the person on the ballot should have, so they go buy the ads. The enlightened ones look to third parties, but often those too are paid for by a party interest in the outcome of the election.

      Seems the me only the candidates know their own motivations. But, to me, lobbying seem to be little more than broking some sort of legal bribe. Well, I'm assuming it's all legal, but I guess it's not always so.

      Long and the short, lobbying should allow business from any country a chance to bypass the will of the votes based on some "greater good excuse"

      --
      -- Prepared at the direction of, or to be sent to Legal Counsel, in anticipation of litigation. Attorney Client Pri
    5. Re:Altered Behavior by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      Except that, at the moment, people downloading music in Canada aren't breaking the law. This message is little more than empty harassment. It doesn't matter what kind of organization they are, they simply have no legal leg to stand on, so they can go piss off.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re:Altered Behavior by Chris+whatever · · Score: 1

      if they try dip your HG in caustic acid and let them try to get anything on your HD or prove that the material you downloaded is anywhere in your home

    7. Re:Altered Behavior by 1800maxim · · Score: 1

      I really don't know why they don't just slap a US flag on it and call it the 51st state already.

      That's because the 51st state title belongs to either the District of Columbia or Puerto Rico.

      We might be 53rd, if we're lucky and beat Iraq to it ;)

    8. Re:Altered Behavior by Guaranteed · · Score: 1, Insightful

      While the legality of downloading movies/mp3 files/whatever might be dubious in Canada, ISPs can certainly revoke your access to their services for whatever reason they want, and getting a big wad of cash from US Lobby groups would certainly be a solid 'whatever' reason. Considering we've only got two major broadband providers in Canada, being booted off your ISP is a big deal.

    9. Re:Altered Behavior by MyNameIsEarl · · Score: 1

      Downloading isn't illegal in the US either, the RIAA doesn't sue downloaders they sue uploaders who are distributing the files. The RIAA actually seems to go out of their way to avoid downloaders altogether because they want the public to believe downloading is illegal and evil and a sin.

    10. Re:Altered Behavior by Coco+Lopez · · Score: 1

      the US is viewed by many Canadians as Canada's primary trading partner.

      There's no "views", only reality.

      From the CIA World Factbook https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos /ca.html:

      Exports account for roughly a third of [Canada's] GDP. Canada enjoys a substantial trade surplus with its principal trading partner, the US, which absorbs about 85% of Canadian exports. Canada is the US' largest foreign supplier of energy, including oil, gas, uranium, and electric power.

      Exports: $405 billion f.o.b. (2006 est.)

      Exports - partners: US 84.2% [~$341 billion]

      And Americans would be wise to equally remember the following,https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/fac tbook/geos/us.html:

      Exports: $1.024 trillion f.o.b. (2006 est.)

      Exports - partners: Canada 23.4% [~$240 billion]

    11. Re:Altered Behavior by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      What do these US lobby groups (note: not law enforcement agencies) think they can do against Canadian citizens?

      They believe that they will be able to pay US lawmakers to pass a law which puts Canada into the same category as "all them other pirate sponsoring nations", and then force our government to change our laws.

      This is the exact same way the US has been exporting all of their copyright/IP laws abroad. They force their trading partners to adopt their laws, or else.

      Sadly, since US lawmakers have been swayed by the money offered by US lobby groups with stunning regularity, this isn't really a far fetched scenario. :(

      Cheers
      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    12. Re:Altered Behavior by prelelat · · Score: 1

      Thats a very good question I am curiose as to what the american lobbiests can do against Canadians? Are there even laws in Canada that will allow american companies to charge Canadians for downloading the material? How can they prove that they stole the material? Will simular laws that work for music material on the net work the same way? If your not distributing are you still doing something illegal? If not would the change in practice to stop using P2P and start using things like usenet and ftps again where technically you aren't distributing the content but making a copy for personal use?

      I recall the music industry taking file sharers to court in Canada and the judge saying it was like going to a library and borrowing things, whos to say you don't make a copy?(can't remember if this is exactly what was said and I don't have time to look up a refrance).

      For now it seems(from what the artical says) that they are just trying to inform broadband customers that have been noticed that they should change their habbits, but will this lead to lobbiest looking to shut these people down?

      I worry because when I miss a show on tv I tend to download it, most of my software is legal I have a ultimate msdn subscription and I mainly run linux as my desktop. What is considered fail use in this day and age on the internet. Who should define that, and why? These are the questions that neither side seems to have a set answer to. You go one way to far you hurt the creater of the material or the user. A balance needs to be cut but where do you draw the line and how do you enforce it so that it suites both groups? The way that the RIAA is going about it seems unfair. I wish that they would send a letter saying stop what your doing or we will sue you. This would have stopped a number of wrongful suits as well as help to stop smart people who don't know better.

      The next few years will dictate how things are done, can someone please tell us what the best model should be.

    13. Re:Altered Behavior by codegen · · Score: 1

      Thats why the notices are targeting movies and software....

      --
      Atlas stands on the earth and carries the celestial sphere on his shoulders.
    14. Re:Altered Behavior by rikkards · · Score: 1

      I doubt Peer Guardian blocks you from the peer list in a torrent. Which is probably where they are getting most of their IP addresses. Opening up your WAP would just get you disconnected. Usually in the TOS for most of the Canadian ISP is that you won't be sharing your connection. Reading the email they sent, it didn't say anything about repercussions from the BSA but that you are risking getting disconnected due to breach of TOS. Which they can legally do.

    15. Re:Altered Behavior by antdude · · Score: 1

      I thought PeerGuardian doesn't work well. I know TOR would work better.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    16. Re:Altered Behavior by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'd rather be disconnected than sued.

    17. Re:Altered Behavior by rtb61 · · Score: 1
      Oh blah. The BSA is M$ and a whole bunch of other companies that M$ invited 'er' coerced into joining. The principles of the BSA are straight out of the M$ US headquarters, not that US major corporations are uniquely evil, as major corporations from all over the globe tend to be as bad as each other. It is just the US corporation have excessive control over the US government, which those US corporations then use to coerce other countries, so yeah, it really pisses people off from other countries where corporations are prevented from excessively interfering in politics.

      I remember when M$ was preaching against Linux in Australia, they were calling it un-american, which is of course a some what odd thing to do as they were trying to influence Australian politics against open source software in Australia at the time (hint - for any corporation to abuse un-Australian for marketing purposes is certain corporate suicide - generally requiring many many formal apologies, the dismissal of ceo and the disappearance of various board members).

      So limiting the influence of corporations on politics is far stronger in Australia than it is in the USA, so when any corporation tries to short circuit that via the US corporate/government route, than it will draw the ire of the public, as for Australia so as for Canada.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    18. Re:Altered Behavior by shlepp · · Score: 0

      Downloading TV shows is not illegal as far as i know as long as your subscribed to that channel. Otherwise you couldn't record TV shows on your PVR from bell.

  8. Please post it by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Strip out the identifying info and post it.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:Please post it by stratjakt · · Score: 1

      That guy lives Dangerously.

      --
      I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
    2. Re:Please post it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

      Notice Of Copyright Complaint - name - email - ip - mac We are writing to inform you that TELUS has received a complaint that alleges that your TELUS Internet Service account has been involved in copyright infringement. This complaint was traced back to your account based on the IP address used at the time of this activity. Please note that TELUS has not provided any of your personal account information to the complainant. It is TELUS' policy to disclose such information to a complainant only if ordered to do so by a court of law, which has not happened to date. We do, however, want you to be aware that this complaint was received by us and offer you the following information that may be of help to you: If you are unaware of this type of activity originating from your account, you may wish to inquire with others who have access to your account. If you are using a dial-up account, change the account password to ensure that only authorized users have access to it. You may also want to check your system for viruses, which may explain why this sort of activity is originating from your account. If you are not aware of our Acceptable Use Policy, which strictly prohibits use of our Service to infringe the copyrights of others, you may review at mytelus.com/internet. Please be aware that violation of this policy could result in disconnection of your Service. Below is an excerpt from the complaint that we received regarding your account. We include it in this notice in an effort to help you identify the activity that is in question. Karen TELUS Internet Services Internet Abuse Team abuse@telus.com http://www.telus.net/aup.html http://www.telus.net/policies * Please include the original email in any reply. ~~~ Excerpt from complaint: --- ------- Title: some movie Infringement Source: BitTorrent Initial Infringement Timestamp: 4 Mar 2004 05:11:41 GMT Recent Infringment Timestamp: 5 Mar 2004 03:04:13 GMT Infringer Username: Infringing Filename: blah blah blah Infringing Filesize: big Infringers IP Address: yep Infringers DNS Name: uh huh Infringing URL:

    3. Re:Please post it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I recieved one of those.

      They claimed I had downloaded Sky Captain and the World of Tomorrow.

      Not a chance in hell that happened.

      They can go fuck themselves

    4. Re:Please post it by puck01 · · Score: 1

      I live in the US and while I've not received any letters, I have on more that one occasion received a call from my ISP about complaints they've received from the RIAA or MPAA regarding files shared from my IP. It is not so much different than receiving a letter and it gave me an opportunity to correct the problem. It makes me wonder what sort of decision making process is used to figure who is sued in the US vs who gets a courteous nudge on the shoulder to knock if off (or change your behaviors to not get caught).

    5. Re:Please post it by QuickFox · · Score: 3, Informative
      With the original formatting magically restored (except some blank lines removed):

      Notice Of Copyright Complaint - name - email - ip - mac

      We are writing to inform you that TELUS has received a complaint that alleges that your TELUS Internet Service account has been involved in copyright infringement. This complaint was traced back to your account based on the IP address used at the time of this activity.

      Please note that TELUS has not provided any of your personal account information to the complainant. It is TELUS' policy to disclose such information to a complainant only if ordered to do so by a court of law, which has not happened to date.

      We do, however, want you to be aware that this complaint was received by us and offer you the following information that may be of help to you:

      If you are unaware of this type of activity originating from your account, you may wish to inquire with others who have access to your account.

      If you are using a dial-up account, change the account password to ensure that only authorized users have access to it.

      You may also want to check your system for viruses, which may explain why this sort of activity is originating from your account.

      If you are not aware of our Acceptable Use Policy, which strictly prohibits use of our Service to infringe the copyrights of others, you may review at mytelus.com/internet. Please be aware that violation of this policy could result in disconnection of your Service.

      Below is an excerpt from the complaint that we received regarding your account. We include it in this notice in an effort to help you identify the activity that is in question.

      Karen

      TELUS Internet Services
      Internet Abuse Team
      abuse@telus.com
      http://www.telus.net/aup.html
      http://www.telus.net/policies

      * Please include the original email in any reply.

      ~~~

      Excerpt from complaint:
      ---
      -------
      Title: some movie
      Infringement Source: BitTorrent
      Initial Infringement Timestamp: 4 Mar 2004 05:11:41 GMT
      Recent Infringment Timestamp: 5 Mar 2004 03:04:13 GMT
      Infringer Username:
      Infringing Filename: blah blah blah
      Infringing Filesize: big
      Infringers IP Address: yep
      Infringers DNS Name: uh huh
      Infringing URL:
      --
      Terrorists can't threaten a country's freedom and democracy. Only lawmakers and voters can do that.
    6. Re:Please post it by a1mint · · Score: 1

      Are you on DSL, which changes ip addresses often? Perhaps a mixup?

    7. Re:Please post it by rm69990 · · Score: 1

      It makes me wonder what sort of decision making process is used to figure who is sued in the US vs who gets a courteous nudge on the shoulder to knock if off (or change your behaviors to not get caught). Innie minnie miney moe, catch a tiger by the toe?
  9. There Are More Important Things To Do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Canada could instead be more concerned about things that really affect people. Perhaps they could send troops to a place where terrorists have trained, election fraud has been widely believed to have happened, and attacks of mass destruction area fairly frequent. And while the mounties are in Florida, they may not be able to do much about the hurricanes, but they can enjoy some orange juice and sunshine!

    Dudley Do-Right for President!

    1. Re:There Are More Important Things To Do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are already in Afghanistan :P

  10. Excuse me?!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder if they can actually take Canadian users to court?!? Cause I'm on Shaw Cable, yet I haven't recieved one of these notices, course if I get one I'll ignore it.

  11. Ignore them by colesw · · Score: 1

    At least thats what we do. Could be cause we are a smaller ISP, but we've never been contacted besides these generic form e-mail that they send out.

    1. Re:Ignore them by Dunbal · · Score: 5, Funny

      Ignore them... or bill them?

            Dear RIAA,

            It has come to my attention that you have accused me of illegally downloading file xxx, in an electronic letter received by you on xx/xx/2007. As a Canadian citizen I pay tax on recordable media so that you may be compensated for any losses incurred by downloads. I take it that you currently wish to alter this agreement, since you no longer wish for me to download your media.

            Therefore I enclose a bill for CDN $54 which is the amount of tax I have paid on the CD's I have purchased in these past 3 months. I can continue to bill you quarterly if you wish. I expect payment by certified cheque from a Canadian bank within 2 weeks of the date on this letter. Thank you!

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Ignore them by a1mint · · Score: 1

      Isn't the tax/levy only on CD's and not on DVD's. Perhaps that's why blank CD's are just about phased out... Tigerdirect didn't even have any, only DVD's. And the money they collect probably barely pays for the administrative overhead and for the executives' mercedes fund. Heck, that was probably the main motivation anyway. He! *THEY* started this corrupt crappy system, not me. Where's the download button?

    3. Re:Ignore them by Jester998 · · Score: 1

      ... Tigerdirect didn't even have any, only DVD's. ...

      clicky

    4. Re:Ignore them by a1mint · · Score: 1

      Didn't see any in the store, only dvd's. Maybe I missed it? It did seem strange, but I walked back and forth around the shelfs, and only saw dvd's.

    5. Re:Ignore them by a1mint · · Score: 1

      ps. that link you provided. The prices of CD's are way higher than DVD's looks like. I bought 200 DVD for $30 over a year ago at boxing day at Futureshop once. And CD's now? $30 for just 50? Might an actual harddrive be cheaper? Perhaps they should levy a tax on harddrives too. And then also levy compression algorithms.

    6. Re:Ignore them by RabidMonkey · · Score: 1

      I was in there tonight (the one in Markham) and found some.

      only wee stacks, but they were there.

      --
      We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland
    7. Re:Ignore them by a1mint · · Score: 1

      I just didn't realize that CD prices more than doubled. O well, to offset the cost, I'll have to download a few movies to offset the cost. Poor BlockBusters, getting less business from me now - perhaps *they* should lobby for a DVD levy.

      Now if only I can figure out how to get i2p to work with azureus, I'm on my way. Damn Rogers.

  12. So much for the canadian slashdotter's stance by fotbr · · Score: 4, Insightful

    You know, the one where its legal to share files because they pay taxes.

    Then again, I also can't think of any country's borders the **AA actually respects. So welcome to the club.

    1. Re:So much for the canadian slashdotter's stance by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Getting a letter from a lobby group doesn't have the slightest effect on whether or not it's legal for us Canadians to copy music for our private use. It's still legal. So if you're in Canada and you get a letter telling you to stop downloading music, you can safely round file it and have a good laugh at the realization that the music industry wasted money paying someone to track you down, and maybe buy a stamp or too as well.

      Now, if it's something other than music, it might be a good idea to stop. Or at least use your neighbor's open wireless.

    2. Re:So much for the canadian slashdotter's stance by Mordaximus · · Score: 1

      You know, the one where its legal to share files because they pay taxes.

      The law isn't carte-blanche to download software and movies, nor is it legal to distribute copyrighted material.

    3. Re:So much for the canadian slashdotter's stance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't understand what you mean by "So much for that", when was it ever invalidated? Just because the US is sending out letters doesn't mean they're right in doing so.

    4. Re:So much for the canadian slashdotter's stance by fotbr · · Score: 1

      Because right or not, canadians now get to deal with the **AA on a personal level.

      And just to clarify -- the United States isn't sending out letters, a corporation's lawyers are. As much as the rest of the world doesn't like to make the distinction, US corporations != US Government. Yet.

    5. Re:So much for the canadian slashdotter's stance by fotbr · · Score: 1

      The law isn't carte-blanche to download software and movies, nor is it legal to distribute copyrighted material.

      I agree. But thats not the way the Canadian slashdotters present it when they gleefully point out that downloading is legal there because of their taxes on blank media.

  13. I thought this was serious until the last sentence by GomezAdams · · Score: 1
    Downloaders take the hint, and alter their behavior before they receive a more serious letter in the mail."

    When I read that part I fell out of my chair and spewd my afternoon tea through my nose. That Micheal Geist and the BSA are some kinda crazy funny, ain't they?

    --
    Too lazy to create a sig...
  14. Generic pass-through mail could be a good service by davidwr · · Score: 1

    I can see ISPs offering "contact our customer" as a revenue service, for a fee paid by the sender, with the revenue shared with the customer:

    If the sender wants to contact "the customer who had IP address 1.2.3.4 on Feb. 15, 2007 at 12:01AM" it will pay a fee of $1 PLUS whatever fee the customer wants to collect plus a 10% surcharge for the ISP.

    The customer sets a fee of $0-some maximum set by the ISP, or says "no, don't allow any incoming communications." The customer would also say "only allow contact back X number of days."

    Legal and court processes would still be conducted the normal way, as would existing forms of contact like email.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  15. face it, the internet is the great commoditzer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    nothin is gonna stop it. IP owners will never have exclusive ownership of their content when they decide to share it. piracy is a fallacy. When somebody shares something, the person on the recieving end is not a PIRATE! trusted computing and drm will fail because the alternatives are better and FREE! the dmca needs to be thrown in the trash.

  16. Ha Ha Ha.... by Bullfish · · Score: 4, Funny

    Come and get me RIAA! Sixty miles from town on highway, 25 miles via dirt road, 10 miles via dog sled, and 6 by snowshoe... fourth igloo on the left with the green satellite dish... oh, and windchill is -45 today, very balmy

    1. Re:Ha Ha Ha.... by corychristison · · Score: 3, Interesting

      If only we (Canadians) actually lived in igloo's, eh? The part about the weather is true though. Just sometime last week it was -45 in my area. Today it's -10 or so... Shorts and T-shirt weather for Canadians. :-)

      Judging from your post, I don't think you are Canadian. We use the metric system for large distances. But props on your post anyway! Was a good laugh when I needed it.

    2. Re:Ha Ha Ha.... by Bullfish · · Score: 3, Funny

      Translating for our American friends... I am as Canadian as Don Cherry, large bottles of Brador, flannel shirts, screech and Tim Horton's... I cried when the Victoriaville stick company burned down eh...

      Let them come visit up here in Lake Malaki Ontario north of Kenora... if they come in the summer, they will need a canoe to do the portages and a Deet heavy repellent

      Do you think I should tell them we are like... a whole separate country eh? Like the Dog the Bounty Hunter who came up here to find his profession was illegal, could be a culture shock eh...

    3. Re:Ha Ha Ha.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Damn city slickers. Once RIAA is done with you, they can come after me. It's the first left at the end of road to nowhere,

    4. Re:Ha Ha Ha.... by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Ah, and they don't plow the road either. Hope you know how to drive in snow!

    5. Re:Ha Ha Ha.... by multipartmixed · · Score: 1

      Shit, is THAT why you never see Victoriaville sticks anymore?

      I just figured they got outsourced to India or something.

      --

      Do daemons dream of electric sleep()?
    6. Re:Ha Ha Ha.... by aclarke · · Score: 1

      I WISH they didn't plough the road here (southern Ontario). I just drove into a ditch this afternoon trying to avoid the snow plough. There's irony; being sent into the ditch by the very vehicle supposedly going around trying to keep us out.

      Yeah, this is totally off-topic, so I'll bring it back on. I haven't received any threatening emails from the toothless tiger, despite having used a P2P client or three.

      --

      www.clarke.ca
    7. Re:Ha Ha Ha.... by Bullfish · · Score: 1

      Sadly, yes, in the late 80's I believe. Used to be my favourite stick. Now, it's Sherwoods for me None of that Easton crap

  17. Privacy and free speech by SandwhichMaster · · Score: 1

    ...while protecting privacy and free speech" Copyright enforcement and "privacy and free speech" are like oil and water.

  18. the notices are for UPLOADING, not downloading by 1800maxim · · Score: 1

    Many programs, such as countless BitTorrent derivatives, simultaneously upload as you download. The organization in the US randomly searches for "protected" content, jots down the IP addresses, traces to ISPs and asks them to send those notices.

    I got a notice from Rogers that I was uploading some copyrighted file (it was a movie or a TV show). While I was not explicitly uploading it, uTorrent was while downloading it.

    I'm just wondering if this would hold up, though. I can download things in Canada, but I can't upload, so what if the program I use automatically uploads the content? I'm sure it's no excuse...

  19. so you're trying to tell me by circletimessquare · · Score: 1

    that canadian citizens, especially considering the current world climate and opinion of the united states, are more dutifully disposed to obey american business interests than american citizens?

    any canadian here want to eviscerate this patronizing and condescending depiction of canadians as the ultimate pantywaists for me?

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:so you're trying to tell me by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0


      I, and many of my friends, have had these letters through our Canadian ISPs (MTS, Telus, Rogers... I think that's all of them) Anyhow, we just delete them and carry on. It's nothing more than whiny shit filling our inboxes.

      It might scare the casual user but after some assurance they usually go about their downloading.

    2. Re:so you're trying to tell me by Beardo+the+Bearded · · Score: 1

      It's like the joke:

      There's a swimming pool with about 100 people in it. 30 are Canadians. How do you get the Canadians out?

      Just shout, "Can all the Canadians get out of the pool?"

      Seriously, it's legal to download in Canada. (Uploading is not.) The letters mean nothing. It's just a warning to use a better proxy.

      Remember, if you want it to stay legal, write to the Heritage Critic and let him know that the Heritage Minister is being bribed by the CCPA.

      --

      ---
      ECHELON is a government program to find words like bomb, jihad, plutonium, assassinate, and anarchy.
    3. Re:so you're trying to tell me by Dr+Caleb · · Score: 1

      "any canadian here want to eviscerate this patronizing and condescending depiction of canadians as the ultimate pantywaists for me?"

      Your perceptions aren't our concern. (Is that punctuation I see, CTS?) ;)

      You may take some of our attitudes and opinions as condecending amd patronizing - and they may well come out that way, but we really do have good intentions.

      "are more dutifully disposed to obey american business interests than american citizens?"

      We see the CD levy for what it is - a right to copy audio music. Not the right to download games and movies. When asked to behave ourselves, we will. But if asked to stop downloading audio - the gloves come off!

      --
      "History doesn't repeat itself, but it does rhyme." Mark Twain
    4. Re:so you're trying to tell me by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

      So sorry - too busy downloading... maybe later.

      --
      The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
  20. Re:I thought this was serious until the last sente by gordgekko · · Score: 2, Informative

    Michael Geist is Canada's version of Lawrence Lessig.

    --
    You want to know who isn't running Firefox 2.x? They spell it "definately" and "rediculous".
  21. My letters from the ESA by My+Iron+Lung · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've gotten two letters from the ESA in the last 6 months like this.. I don't think they hold a lot of water, they were sent to my ISP who forwarded them to me. My ISP was awfully nice, they offered a link to their site showing how to disable uploads on many popular P2P file sharing apps (made me laugh), covering damn near everything except BitTorrent. Now the first time they caught me was OK, I was downloading software I shouldn't have been, it scared me straight for about 15 minutes till I give it some serious consideration. The second one just made me laugh, it was for downloading an ISO of Starcraft (no cracks or anything, just the ISO), which I do have a legit copy and serial for but left my original copy at work.. Anyways, I'm rambling, but my only real point here is that the only one you should be afraid of is your ISP in cases like this. The ESA/RIAA/MPAA, whatever, holds little to no jurisdiction here in Canada (afaik noone in Canada has ever been convicted along these lines, please enlighten me if you've heard otherwise), but your ISP can easily give you the boot for violating their own terms of service.

    1. Re:My letters from the ESA by rrohbeck · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      Huh? What's the European Space Agency got to do with this?

      --
      thegodmovie.com - watch it
    2. Re:My letters from the ESA by My+Iron+Lung · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Close, but no: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Entertainment_Softwar e_Association Here's the first email I received: http://keeptalking.homelinux.net/esa.txt And this is the second: http://keeptalking.homelinux.net/esa2.txt

    3. Re:My letters from the ESA by HappyDrgn · · Score: 4, Informative

      Not sure how all ISPs handle this but a few years back when I would get these letters to the NOC at the provider I worked for we would send out one boiler plate mail to the customer letting them know we got the complaint along with a copy of the complaint and another to the **AA, BSA, etc acknowledging we received their letter and that we would not provide them any of the additional information they wanted without a court ordered subpoena. For each letter we would get the customer would also get a letter from us, mostly just as a heads up to the customer. We where a common carrier, and not obligated in anyway to act on these letters.

    4. Re:My letters from the ESA by 0x0000 · · Score: 1

      well you coulda provided the headers so we could blackhole cogeco's mailers...

      --
      "The Internet is made of cats."
    5. Re:My letters from the ESA by 0x0000 · · Score: 1

      Oops, sorry - make that "ESA's mailers"....

      --
      "The Internet is made of cats."
    6. Re:My letters from the ESA by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      So... you actually are illegally sharing ISO images of their software... Starcraft and SOCOM. Why are you complaining?

      You do realize that only downloading is legal, and that uploading is still illegal, right? You *could* be successfully sued by the people who own the rights to distribute that software in Canada, and the fines are pretty hefty.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    7. Re:My letters from the ESA by the_humeister · · Score: 3, Funny

      You can play Starcraft at work??? Where do you work, and how do I apply?

    8. Re:My letters from the ESA by My+Iron+Lung · · Score: 1

      What post did you read? I'm not complaining at all. All I'm saying is it's a shot in the dark and a scare tactic on their behalf.. nothing more. They sure could try to sue me.. over two games I already own (and I do own SOCOM now too, the ISO from the first didn't actually work, a second one did but was using up my whole memory card.. I opted to buy it), one as old as 1999 and own all the original packaging and serials for, in a country where they have little sway or authority, with an ISP that more than likely won't divulge my identity, using a protocol used to distribute only PIECES of a file.. and factoring in that, all the ESA has to go buy is a best guess from an IP address they grabbed from the tracker, and I could muddy the waters further and claim I live in an apartment building (I do) where my internet access is wide open (it isn't) and I don't know what the heck they're talking about. If it got that far. Which it wouldn't.

    9. Re:My letters from the ESA by antdude · · Score: 1

      So your ISP doesn't terminate accounts? I have seen and heard people's ISPs (e.g., Adelphia) terminating accounts after two warnings. I don't know if all ISPs do that too like Time Warner, Comcast, etc.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
    10. Re:My letters from the ESA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, the ESA does have weight in Canada, since they have a base of operations in Canada.

  22. Shockingly, I don't have a problem with this..... by 8127972 · · Score: 1

    .... as it seems to balance privacy (the ISP's don't share personal info, or at least that's what they say) with the MAFIAA's need to stamp out piracy. And it's not as if the ISP's don't get a benefit from this as well as (insert your file sharing client here) traffic drops and users don't get slowdowns as soon as the kiddies come home from school since they're not sucking up all of the bandwidth in a network segment downloading MP3's and pron.

    --
    This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
  23. Re:I thought this was serious until the last sente by urbanriot · · Score: 2, Interesting

    This might seem crazy or funny to you, but it's completely true. This tactic is to scare the casual downloader and it works. I've had numerous friends receive these letters in the past and they'd completely altered their download patterns ranging from installing RIAA/MPAA/BSA filtering software (such as Peerguardian) all the way up to stopping completely and removing all pirate software from their computer. Maybe to the more enlightened user this might sound crazy, or perhaps to those that haven't received these letters, but to most people receiving an official looking letter that's singling you out for software piracy... it can be a little worrisome.

  24. "An anonymous reader writes..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... namely Michael Geist. Boy does that liberal know how to work slashdot!

  25. what about spam filter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am sure my K9 filter would flag this as spam and it will go in my spam inbox and be deleted after a few days...
    "notice and notice" will be unnoticed :)

  26. This by El+Gruga · · Score: 1

    isnt about Canada - this is about the people hired to 'stop music theft' needing to justify their jobs with the RIAA somewhere in Bumfluff, USA. Canada's levy on recording media allows us Canucks to make copies of music and do wtf we like with them. If you get bumped off your ISP, just sign up with another one - there are many to choose from. Hey RIAA - come on up here and lets see what you've got!

    1. Re:This by Kimos · · Score: 1

      If you get bumped off your ISP, just sign up with another one - there are many to choose from.
      You couldn't be further from the truth. I live in the downtown area of the largest city in my province. There are two high speed internet providers, and my apartment building is only wired for one of them.
    2. Re:This by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Look around. I think you'd be surprised how many other high speed providers you can find.

  27. why its legal to receive what is illegal to provid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Funny how lawyers' brains never explode from contradiction of asserting simultaneously that it is legalto receive something which is illegal to provide (or vice versa).

    Classic example being the Teapot Dome scandal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teapot_Dome_scandal where Fall was convicted of receiving a bribe that Doheny was acquitted of paying. (hence the term "fall guy")

  28. Apologies to Quentin by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 1

    Its legal, but it ain't a hundred percent legal. I mean, you just can't walk into a library, pull a CD off the wall, and start copying. They want you to copy in certain ways from certain sites. It breaks down like this - its legal to download it, legal to listen to it, and if you pay the fee, legal to copy it. Its illegal to sell it, but get this - it doesn't matter because if they send you a C&D its illegal for them to search your computer - thats a right the RIAA in Canada doesn't have.

    1. Re:Apologies to Quentin by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      No. Walking into the library, sitting down and copying all the music CDs they have is 100% legal. Giving (or selling) those copies to a third party is not legal.

    2. Re:Apologies to Quentin by badboy_tw2002 · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I was going more for the joke and less for correctness, and couldn't think of anything to rhyme with pedantic nerd.

    3. Re:Apologies to Quentin by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      Humor is well and good, but your post is dangerously incorrect and the humor is too... let's go with subtle. Maybe if you did it with the right accent?

  29. 2004??? by davidwr · · Score: 1

    Don't they have better things to do than send out notices of alleged infringement almost 3 years after the fact???

    Someone has too much free time.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
    1. Re:2004??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      About 3 years ago I got one that was 6 months after the fact from Paramount for a show that sat in my list for two months looking for a seeder. I just never deleted it and never got more than one block of data.

  30. Re:First, how do they avoid these messages being . by rikkards · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I got one from Rogers for downloading a copy of Flight Sim X that I wanted to check out before buying. It was an email they got from the BSA. It had the specific IP, DNS name and torrent I was downloading from. Freaked the wife out but whatever. Normally my bittorrent behaviour is downloading tv shows i.e ones that Rogers PVR decided not to tape or to get widescreen version of shows that are displayed only in 4:3 like BSG but I wanted to see how Microsoft's new version fared.

    The result of my trial was that I am not buying FSX as it runs too slow on the hardware I have and it isn't that much better than FS 2004.

  31. ...then open up the online viewing of past episode by MikeOrr · · Score: 2, Interesting

    I'm not going to get into the topic of sending notices via ISPs... one thing from that news article that caught my eye, was the mention of NBC/Universal sending a notice, because they felt someone was downloading a TV show episode.

    Well, on NBC.com most/all (I haven't checked every show) offers you to watch the entire episode the very next day of airing, for free.

    But not for Canadians (and I assume anyone outside of the US). Instead, we get "We're sorry, but the clip you selected isn't available from your location." - what's the point of this artificial restriction? If you're making it available for free to some people, why not everyone? If NBC.com won't make it available, then why shouldn't I be able to just download the episode via BitTorrent? If I have a PVR so I can tape a show and watch it later (skipping all commercials), why shouldn't I be able to just download the show and watch it later?

  32. Just Take the hint, and change ISPs by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I guess me and my money are not welcome here...we'll go somewhere else...

  33. Escalation! by GSwarthout · · Score: 1

    If you don't comply with the terms of this light-hearted letter, we'll send you a more serious one.

    And if you are still infringing at that point, we have yet another, more seriouser letter to follow that one.

    A third offense begets a COMPLETELY serious letter, which will also be pinned up on a public wall for all to see.

    If all other measures fail, we'll call your Mom! We're serious! We'll really do it! Don't take a chance!

    --
    It is the 21st century and the time for Klax has passed.
    1. Re:Escalation! by KillerBob · · Score: 1

      That's it. I'm totally honked off. I'm gonna send 'em a letter and give 'em what for.

      --
      If you believe everything you read, you'd better not read. - Japanese proverb
    2. Re:Escalation! by vic-traill · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of:

      British Bobby: "Stop or I'll yell stop again!"

      Canadian Mountie: "Stop or I'll shoot!"

      New Jersey State Trooper: "Stop or I'll shoot again!"

      --
      [17] Leary, T., White, C., Wood, P. R., Bhabha, W. D., and Wirth, N. Lambda calculus considered harmful. In Proceedings
  34. Why Email and not a little blurb on monthly bill? by a1mint · · Score: 2, Funny

    Email? Woof, the wife won't see that one, relief... I don't even use the crappy email accounts of Crogers or Chimpatico. Perhaps they should include a suspected illegal activity rating/score on the monthly bill - the wife *would* notice *that*. They could base it on funny-port-use ratio or something. They could take the number of gigabytes uploaded/downloaded through ports they think are not used for "legitimate use", and translate it through a formula and provide a "whole-some" rating. 0 'd be 0% chance you're doing anything illegal. This is the person that only reads and writes email, visits ordinary websites like cnn and cbc. This person should downgrade to a basic account - no need for 5+ Mb/s speeds here. ISP will not want that... 10 'd be someone who visits porn sites. 20 'd be someone who runs the odd limewire. 50 'd be someone who runs bittorrent to do stuff, whatever stuff. 75 'd be someone who runs bittorrent 24/7 with an average of 25 KB/s (Rogers mames connection speeds, forget about 300+MB/s downloads, it aint happening no more). 100 'd be someone who looks like he's running a freenet node, and imminently faced the rcmp running down the front door on a sunday morning. We might as well move to China - it'd be a freeer nation over there...

  35. I've Received A Warning Before by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This system has been in use for quite some time. I received an e-mail notification from Rogers about a year ago, detailing they had been contacted by the Business Software Alliance, because I had downloaded Adobe Photoshop CS. I didn't do anything about it, and neither did Rogers. It was just a form e-mail with "Adobe Photoshop CS" substituted in.

    Also, the levy on blank CDs here only goes towards the music industry, not movie studios or software companies. I wouldn't be surprised if the MPAA and BSA were the only groups taking part in this right now. If the RIAA is as well, then they need to bugger off.

  36. tired of this noise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm tired of all of the noise about Canadian Copyrights.
    We've got a better - and more legally correct - copyright system than that bloody MAFIAA is trying to shove down our throats.

    Incidentally - I don't do piracy. I don't download illegal content, I don't share it either. Personal choice.. that and I'm not all that interested in the MAFIAA's cheap tawdry empty crap.
    I only wish there was a way to stop the MAFIAA's blackmail.

    (aside : I can't read have the bloody text in these slashdot prove-you're-human images. Just in case anyone there's paying attention)

  37. Re:Generic pass-through mail could be a good servi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    i wonder how they are obtaining the upload times and ips that are peers/seeders/uploading the torrents without actually torrenting the file themselves. if they are torrenting the file to find the ip's, then isn't that some sort of legal loophole?

  38. Re:...then open up the online viewing of past epis by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Probably due to retrictions when they sell a tv show to another broadcaster in another country. They don't have the rights to show it here, probably belongs to Global... the worst channel in canada (not including CBC)

  39. obSimpsons by Rob+T+Firefly · · Score: 3, Funny

    Is that the Apu school of threats? "Hey! I have asked you nicely not to mangle my merchandise. You leave me no choice but to... ask you nicely again."

    --
    Slashdot Burying Stories About Slashdot Media Owned
  40. Passing letters. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Speaking truthfully as a person who forwards BSA complaints to my Inet customers; I can say that in order to take the matter further, the bsa would have to identify my customer. Short of a direct court order is no way my customers personal information is being released to anyone for any reason.

    We have been passing along these letters for years. We dont police the internet, if the copyright holder wants to push the issue they can take the proper legal avenues.

  41. If You're Canadian... by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Why don't you also vote to put the copyright expiration back to 20 years? If you got Earl, Ted and Irving to vote with you you'd have plenty of votes to override that dick, Scott.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

  42. Let me enlighten you - by unity100 · · Score: 1

    if/when piracy goes away, the 'hurt tax' will stay. This is why people pirate - against greater piracy. Its a ever-standing rule that self serving behaviour is met with self serving behaviour.

    --
    Read radical news here
  43. Post: Rogers/BayTSP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

    Dear XXXXXXXXXX

    Rogers Cable (Rogers) has received a notice stating that activities associated with your IP address are infringing copyright in material(s) owned or exclusively licensed by others.

    The full notice is appended to this e-mail below.

    Under section 4(d) of the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet End User Agreement (EUA) and Acceptable Use Policy (AUP), you are prohibited from using the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service to engage in illegal activities, including activities that infringe copyright. Copies of our EUA and AUP are available at:

    http://na.edit.client.yahoo.com/rogers/show_static ?.form=terms&.intl=ca

    Where there has been a violation of our EUA and/or AUP, including the unauthorized distribution of copyright-protected material, Rogers has the right to take appropriate action against you.

    If you have any questions about the attached copyright notice, please contact the sender of the notice using the contact information provided in the notice. Please do not reply to this e-mail.

    We trust you will comply with our policies and all applicable laws in using the Rogers Yahoo! Hi-Speed Internet service.

    Rogers EUA Management Team
    Sincerely,

    EUA Management Team
    Rogers Yahoo Hi-Speed Internet

    http://na.edit.client.yahoo.com/rogers/show_static ?.form=terms

    -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
    Hash: SHA1

    Notice ID: XX-XXXXXXX
    XX XXX XXXX XX:XX:XX GMT

    Rogers Cable

    Dear Sir or Madam:

    BayTSP, Inc. ("BayTSP") swears under penalty of perjury that Paramount Pictures Corporation ("Paramount") has authorized BayTSP to act as its non-exclusive agent for copyright infringement notification. BayTSP's search of the protocol listed below has detected infringements of Paramount's copyright interests on your IP addresses as detailed in the attached report.

    BayTSP has reasonable good faith belief that use of the material in the manner complained of in the attached report is not authorized by Paramount, its agents, or the law. The information provided herein is accurate to the best of our knowledge. Therefore, this letter is an official notification to effect removal of the detected infringement listed in the attached report. The Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works, the Universal Copyright Convention, as well as bilateral treaties with other countries allow for protection of client's copyrighted work even beyond U.S. borders. The attached documentation specifies the exact location of the infringement.

    We hereby request that you immediately remove or block access to the infringing material, as specified in the copyright laws, and insure the user refrains from using or sharing with others Paramount's materials in the future (see, 17 U.S.C. 512).

    Further, we believe that the entire Internet community benefits when these matters are resolved cooperatively. We urge you to take immediate action to stop this infringing activity and inform us of the results of your actions. We appreciate your efforts toward this common goal.

    Please respond indicating the actions you have taken to resolve this matter. The provided link has been assigned to this matter http://webreply.baytsp.com/webreply/webreply.jsp?c ustomerid=XX&commhash=XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX XXXX. For email correspondence, please reference the above Notice ID in the subject line mai

  44. We're way to nice by CiRu5 · · Score: 4, Funny

    "unlike the U.S. takedown approach, the Canadian system is proving effective while protecting privacy and free speech. Downloaders take the hint, and alter their behavior before they receive a more serious letter in the mail."

    RIAA: Don't download that

    Us: Ok, sorry

    Man up fellow Canadians :)

    --
    "Some of the worst mistakes in my life have been haircuts." - Jim Morrison
  45. Encryption ? by a1mint · · Score: 1

    Would using Azureus or uTorrent encrypted connections have prevented their little stalking game? I wonder what's the best ip anonymizer / scatterizer out there... freenet ?

    1. Re:Encryption ? by puck01 · · Score: 1

      The encrypted connections would not have prevented this, because the IP address would still be known which is all they need to track you. If your sharing the file, they can still down load it from you.

      Freenet would work. Using an anonymous proxy can work provided you can trust the proxy not to reveal your true IP address (relakks comes to mind, they've been in the news lately). Usenet works. There are many other ways as well, those just come to mind.

  46. Re:I thought this was serious until the last sente by Emetophobe · · Score: 1

    I received one of those letters, from the ESA, and I admit that it scared me a bit. It worked in the sense that it altered my downloading habits, I haven't downloaded a pirated game since then, though I still download mp3s and movies. I'm a bit upset that I fell for their scare tactic, but really, I can't afford to be brought to court over some shitty Neverwinter Nights 2 game that I downloaded. For me it's not worth the risk of getting caught, I can't afford it.

    I doubt my ISP would cut me off though, I'm one of their "good" customers, I give them lots of cash every month (I have 1 HDTV box, 3 regular digital boxes, a cellphone package, landline package, high speed internet, etc.. all from the same ISP/Media provider)

  47. Traitorous torrent sites by davidwr · · Score: 1

    When they sue a torrent site, part of any settlement offer probably includes a "spill your guts" provision.

    Of course, since the settlement terms are generally confidential I'm only speculating.

    In cases that aren't settled, the information may come out in discovery or as part of a criminal investigation.

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  48. Service terminated due to false accusation? by necro2607 · · Score: 2

    I received a report just like this article refers to, from my ISP. The thing is, the infringment report indicated that I was sharing a foreign-language version of a Hollywood movie, which I absolutely 100% had never done. They had the correct software I had been using (for downloading files OTHER THAN movies), correct IP and filesharing-network-user-ID, but I have NEVER downloaded the movie that I was being "reported" for, nor have I ever shared it or anything even resembling it (or any other movies, actually).

    So, my question is, what would happen if my ISP disconnected me because of this? There are really only two main ISPs around here, and the other one is definitely not desireable. Because some automated bot made up a completely false "infringement" report, I could lose net connectivity? Am I no longer allowed to use p2p software even if what I'm downloading is legally OK to download?

    "If you are not aware of our Acceptable Use Policy, which strictly prohibits use of our Service to infringe the copyrights of others, you may review at mytelus.com/internet. Please be aware that violation of this policy could result in disconnection of your Service"

    What about alleged and unsubstantiated violation of this policy? What about when a bot sends mostly-correct infringement notices, but there was NO actual copyright infringement occuring? How can the ISP know whether anything illegal actually occured?

    Just because they know my IP, username and user ID and then add the name of a hollywood movie with a .AVI at the end, doesn't mean there's ANY truth to the report. This really really bothers me, because I pay for high speed access and have been a customer of this company for years, but could magically have my services cut off permanently with them because of incorrect, falsified and effectively fabricated copyright infringement notices!

  49. Old news by ^_^x · · Score: 1

    This has been happening for a long time now. A year ago, I got a message from Telus stating that I had violated copyright by downloading an episode of Battlestar Galactica that came on TV here anyway, but I'd missed it - the message had my IP address, the torrent tracker I was on, the time I was spotted there, and the name of the file I was downloading, but of course, not who it was that complained about it.

    The sad thing is that I don't even know if the complainant had any jurisdiction to stop me from downloading, but legally, I strongly suspect they can't do anything in court, so they complain instead to my ISP who would be more than easily enough scared into terminating my account if they get too many complaints.

  50. Fortunately... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The porn industry isn't part of the MPAA, or I'd have been booted off my ISP ages ago.

    Joking aside, I've been using newsgroups instead of BitTorrent avoid any of that upstream behaviour that would result in a nasty letter from my ISP. The downside is that I have to pay a monthly fee to a news service to download all that wonderful stuff.

  51. So I decided to ask by shaze · · Score: 0

    Shaze to abuse @ 2:01 pm (51 minutes ago)

    How can your customers be held personally accountable for any charges or offenses committed from an IP address, when free wireless is the default setup of every router?

    Doesn't this make your company's participation in the matter, an accomplice to extortion? Shouldn't you follow the actions and intentions of our government when dealing with it's people.

    ----
    Reply

    Abuse Teluscom @ 2:44 pm (8 minutes ago)

    We are simply passing on the complaint we received from the copyright holder, making you aware of the problem so that you are aware of the issue which gives you a chance to secure your wireless. It also covers us in case they decide to sue. No on has been sued in Canada yet.

    Sincerely,

    Dale
    Internet Abuse Team Member
    Consumer Customer Operations
    TELUS Communications
    http://www.telus.com/internetabuse
    Email: abuse@telus.com
    **Please include the original email in any replies.

  52. Re:...then open up the online viewing of past epis by Xoltri · · Score: 1

    Just find a free proxy that is based in the US and then you can view the content.

    --
    -Xoltri
  53. Re:First, how do they avoid these messages being . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I downloaded FSX from my work's server, and generated a valid key for it, so I could do much the same thing. It was a little easier for me, what with my employer being Microsoft. But still, didn't like my notebook's hardware - though my wife's Core 2 Duo notebook ran it great.

  54. This strikes me as odd by thewils · · Score: 2, Interesting

    So will Rogers, for example, be sending letters to themselves for stuff that's hosted on their own Usenet servers?

    --
    Once I was a four stone apology. Now I am two separate gorillas.
  55. Rogers by ErebusNT · · Score: 1

    Funny about all this - I got one of these letters from Rogers the other day saying that I was illegally supplying (via a torrent) copies of "Grand Theft Auto". I wrote them back to point out that: - I don't torrent - I don't play (or own) "Grand Theft Auto" - the IP that they quote as being me isn't even me So far I have yet to hear back from them.

    1. Re:Rogers by a1mint · · Score: 1

      Screw them all. I suggest exploring something freenet, get that to work.

    2. Re:Rogers by Darkinspiration · · Score: 0

      to my knowledge grand theft auto and grand theft auto 2 are free. Rockstar as released them to the net.

  56. Re:Generic pass-through mail could be a good servi by Achromatic1978 · · Score: 1

    if they are torrenting the file to find the ip's, then isn't that some sort of legal loophole?

    Not particularly. They're working on behalf of the content holder, who'd grant them explicit permission to distribute their goods for the purpose of the exercise, which doesn't in any way give you implicit permission to receive said goods.

  57. Re:why its legal to receive what is illegal to pro by Have+Brain+Will+Rent · · Score: 1

    Happens all the time... here in many cities prostitutes are not arrested but their customers are... the providers of the service are seen as victims... the ones paying for the service are seen as criminals.


    --
    The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny - Aesop
  58. Re:First, how do they avoid these messages being . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Gaybuntu - finally the GNAA is first post again...

  59. Re:I thought this was serious until the last sente by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    [quote]I doubt my ISP would cut me off though, I'm one of their "good" customers, I give them lots of cash every month (I have 1 HDTV box, 3 regular digital boxes, a cellphone package, landline package, high speed internet, etc.. all from the same ISP/Media provider)[/quote]

    And Ted Rogers thanks you from the bottom of his heart, without you he wouldn't have been able to buy Fido.

    Thanks a LOT.

  60. Who's next? by BurningFeetMan · · Score: 1

    Canada's turn at the moment. I wonder if Australia will be next, as it's been awhile since our ISP's spammed out these warning letters. For me, not that I've ever gotten one, the worst part about getting one of these letters would be when I have to lie to my folks about not downloading everything stated in said letter. =\

  61. Re:...then open up the online viewing of past epis by qzulla · · Score: 1

    Why should they have to? Does the general Joe even know what on is?

    qz

  62. Re:Please post it - A Proper Response to Telus by Noishe · · Score: 1

    I got this once from Telus when I was using them. I sent back a reply that went like this:

    Dear telus, according to canadian copyright law and free use laws, I am free to download any piece of work that I have any form of ownership in already and use it. Since it is impossible for anyone besides myself to determine previous ownership, this complaint has no merit. Furthermore, I am also free to download ANY piece of music or video that I do not have previous ownership in, and provide it for others to upload so long as I do not use it myself.

    As no complaint brought against me can be verified as true, all such complaints should be treated as spam. I am hearby giving you notice that the relaying of these messages to me will constitute a violation of the canadian anti spam laws, and further communication on the subject will result in legal proceeding being brough against telus.

    Thank you.

    I got a very apolagetic letter back in response. Of course, when I found out that Telus blocks outgoing server ports for HTTP and FTP, I switched to Shaw anyways. Shaw has never given me any copyright complaint notices, just politely informed me when I went over 80GB a month in transfer and asked if I would like to upgrade my account to a higher tier.

  63. It isn't illegal in Canada... by xenobyte · · Score: 1

    ...to download music and movies... The courts have settled on the matter long ago and if you pay the levy on digital media, you have paid for everything you download.

    Yes, it's really that simple.

    --
    "For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
    1. Re:It isn't illegal in Canada... by Colonel+Angus · · Score: 1

      Music *AND* movies? I was under the impression that it was legal to download music but not movies.

  64. Logical, Open Copyright by camperdave · · Score: 1

    ...music, video and books are seen as form of art...

    That makes perfect sense. And I'm not just saying that because I'm of Dutch descent.

    The situation does raise some questions in my mind, though. I do want to be fair and let the producers of a work profit from their work. After all, it does cost money to rent studio time, equipment, performers, etc. and that money has got to come from somewhere. I have heard that some TV shows do not show a profit during their initial run, but are designed to profit in syndicated re-runs. Music tends to be rather flash-in-the-pan as far as its popularity (and I presume, its sales) goes. Books, I imagine, tend to enjoy a long steady flow of sales. So, how do you put together a copyright law that allows the producers to realize a reasonable profit from their work, but also sees that work opened to the public?

    What we need is some sort of "open source" brainstorming to come up with a reasonable copyright law.

    --
    When our name is on the back of your car, we're behind you all the way!
  65. whatever. by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    OK I am sooo sick of this conversation. This has been going on for years. It is really stupid. I haven't got an email yet. If I do I will ignore it. Nothing against the USA, but I am pretty sure they would try and invade if we tried to influance their internal policy. RIAA bring it. We will see how you fare in Canadian Courts. You may get some of us to buckle under your threats, but the rest of us will make you pay so much in legal fees that we will make it a very costly proposition to try this garbage in Canada. I am not so sure that I am in the right, however I know for a fact that you are wrong. That is enough for me.

  66. So what? by LiquidFiend · · Score: 1

    They can send as many letters as they want, hell I've got 2 of them, almost everyone I know has atleast 1. Doesn't mean shit. They send my ISP a letter that says "this ip address is a pirate, do something about it". So out of interest I call up my ISP and ask
    "What happens with this letter?"
    "Nothing."
    "Can they do anything?"
    "We are not allowed to give them your name or any information."
    "And will you guys do anything about it?"
    "I haven't seen it happen, but you would get atleast one warning before anything serious happened."
    "Ok.... thanks."

    Done. No need for proxy setup or anything. Your ISP can't give them any info, so unless you're drunk enough to email them directly to appologize/fight then you're fine.

  67. Isp's lose customer's by Archades54 · · Score: 0

    Heh i wonder how many isp's lose customers after the first notice as the guys just change to a new isp, and continue their habits.

    --
    If your neighbours roof is flying past your window, you know it's cyclone season.
  68. Re:First, how do they avoid these messages being . by ahodgson · · Score: 1

    What subpoena, what fines? Downloading is perfectly legal in Canada.