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Canadians Overpay Millions on Copyright Tax
An anonymous reader writes "Michael Geist has up a post on his site about the Copyright Board of Canada's decision last week on the controversial private copying levy, which functions like a tax on blank media. The good news? The Board reduced the levy on certain media such as CD-R Audio, CD-RW Audio, and MiniDiscs. The bad news? The millions of dollars in overpayment from these media will go into the pockets of manufacturers, importers, and retailers, not back to the consumers who paid in the first place. 'In addition to the overpayment issue, the decision contains several interesting revelations ... the decision sheds some light on the CPCC's enforcement program. The collective has aggressively targeted those parties that do not pay the levy, with 21 claims over the past three years. In fact, the enforcement program has been so effective that the Board found that concerns about the emergence of a gray or black market for blank CDs has not materialized.'"
Nice speech, from which RIAA shill handbook did you copy paste that from then? If you are genuinely a record shop owner then you might want to consider that the business model you cling to so desperately is dying and has been for a few years. Harsher punishments will only incite rebellion in your target age market and make things worse for yourself. adapt or die, simply put.
Sounds like a good business, but who is going to buy a HUGE CD when alternatives like SD chips are much more portable and more resistant to abuse? Who buys cassette tapes anymore? Is the decline of reel to reel tapes and vinyl due to piracy?
You need to have a good business plan. Don't blame others for your lack of technological vision.
So I wonder if there's no tax on DVD-Rs. And if not, why not?
Last year I got 100 DVD-Rs for $25. At 25 for 4.7GB there's not much incentive to even buy CD-Rs if the tax alone is 21 for 700MB.
Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
the economics of why gray/black markets form, or were they just being deliberately disingenuous?
Do not try to read the dupe, thats impossible. Instead, only try to realize the truth
What truth?
There is no dupe
I knew this had to of been copied from somewhere. I was suspicious, but "Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect." gave it away.
Sales of vinyl have been increasing year-over-year for the last 10 years according to several music mags. It is a small percentage, but it is increasing.
The millions of dollars in overpayment from these media will go into the pockets of manufacturers, importers, and retailers, not back to the consumers who paid in the first place.
Right, always finding something bad even in a good news, aren't you Mike.
How on Earth would this "return in the hands of the consumers" be organized. How do you imagine the logistics of such an outcome. Maybe you bring your receipts and they give you 1 cents for each disk or something?
What they did is the best they could do. Manifacturers/retailers/importers get back the money and they can pass the savings on to their future customers.
Of course they won't, since it's not how business works, but that's a completely different matter.
I, for one, give you those 2 cents and not look back.
n/t
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
Go away you troll.
Free the Quark 3 from asymptotic confinement! Bring your charm! Don't get down! All colours and flavours welcome!
So we pay a little more for CD's, and that money goes to the copyright holders (we hope).
Umm, maybe this isn't such a bad idea? After all, there is a TV Tax in the UK for the same reason. Everyone complains about it, but not *that* much.
Maury
They have fought the War on Drugs with skill, so why not the War on Piracy?
Why not? Because losing 1 social 'war' is bad enough.
I do agree with the part of your post about punishing pirates, but I don't think it goes far enough. I think we should incarcerate them for 10 years in a windowless room, then suddenly let them walk out of prison, but as they walk out there's a trap door and they fall into a gigantic meat grinder which slowly grinds their flesh and bones into cat food over the course of a couple days. Then, take the 'Soylent Pirate' to market and resell it as animal feed to recoup the losses of the **AA!
Hell, it's less cruel and capricious than the DMCA!
Latewire
People are still trolling with this? Wow, how old is this thing now?
Anyway, the answer is to tell your little daughters that the world has passed their old man by, and this is why they need to go to college. The other kids laugh because daddy is a moron.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
You know, those guys they always talk about as the losers of piracy.
"Thanks for all the money you paid to us. We've used it to buy off ISO among other things" -Microsoft
Sounds like K.W.Jeter's "Noir" (well worth a read, although it's a bit preachy in parts)
...they should pirate more stuff.
Something to make fun of Canada for, eh?
*ducks*
"Now I'm seriously serious!" - Serious Sam
Old copypasta is olllllld, troll.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
The collective has aggressively targeted..
Who wrote this? Am I going to be assimilated?
h
Valkyrie is about to die! Wizard needs food -- badly!
Lets make a deal.
Fuck off you cut and paste asshole. Come back when you have an original thought.
Beautiful! Is there a matinee this weekend? I'd like to bring the kids...
How about a copyright moratorium for a month?
In order to compensate consumers for overpaying, we can download and copy anything we want royalty-free.
If it works out well, we can do it every year.
Here is an alternative - Ive been seeing the origional one pop up so regularily that I am surprised no one else has messed around with it yet... - I had to... appologies to the copyright holder of this much used piece, this derviative is intended as a parody...:
My business faces ruin. Software sales have dropped through the floor. People aren't buying half as many products as they did just a year ago. Revenue is down and costs are up. My store has survived for years, but I now face the prospect of bankruptcy. Every day I ask myself why this is happening.
I bought the store about 12 years ago. It was one of those little software stores that sell well known, major software releases that everyone uses, even the people that don't them. I decided that to grow the business I'd need to aim for a wider demographic, the family market. My store specialised in family software - stuff that the whole family could use. I don't sell sick stuff like violent games or gambling simulations , and I'm proud to have one of the most extensive education sections that I know of.
The business strategy worked. People flocked to my store, knowing that they (and their children) could safely purchase software that worked without coming accross profanity or violent games. Over the years I expanded the business and took on more clean-cut and friendly employees. It took hard work and long hours but I had achieved my dream - owning a profitable business that I had built with my own hands, from the ground up. But now, this dream is turning into a nightmare.
Every day, fewer and fewer customers enter my store to buy fewer and fewer titles. Why is no one buying software? Are people not interested in compters? Do people prefer to use pen and paper, outsource;? I don't know. But there is one, inescapable truth - Free and Open Source Software (F/OSS) is mostly to blame. The statistics speak for themselves - seven in ten webservers now run F/OSS. On The Internet, you can find and download replacements for thousands of dollars worth of software in just minutes. It has the potential to destroy the software industry, from lower management, to upper management to stores like my own. Before you point to the supposed "economic downturn", I'll note that the book store just across from my store is doing great business. Unlike software, it's harder to make F/OSS books and distribute them over The Internet.
A week ago, an unpleasant experience with these F/OSS'er communists gave me an idea. In my store, I overheard a teenage patron talking to his friend.
"Dude, I'm going to put Debian on my PC instead of this Vista junk, I'll download it right away."
"Yeah, dude, that's really lete [sic], you'll get lots of respect."
I was fuming. So they were out to destroy the software industry from right under my nose? Fat chance. When they came past the counter to leave, I grabbed the little shit by his shirt. "So...you're going to use unamerican, communist F/OSS replacements to good honest god-fearing proprietry software and tell your friends about it, punk?" I asked him in my best Clint Eastwood/Dirty Harry voice.
"Uh y-yeh." He mumbled, shocked.
"That's it. What's your name? You're blacklisted. Now take yourself and your little bitch friend out of my store - and don't come back." I barked. Cravenly, they complied and scampered off.
So that's my idea - a national blacklist of F/OSS'ers. If somebody cannot obey the basic rules of society, then they should be excluded from society. If F/OSS'ers want to give stuff away for free, with the source code and divert cash from the software industry, then the software industry should exclude them. It's that simple. One strike, and you're out - no reputable software store will allow you to buy another title. If the F/OSS'ers can't buy the software to begin with, then they won't be able to make alternatives and give them away free over The Internet, will they? It's no different to doctors blacklisting poor people from access to non-emergency medical care.
Since I'm overpaying via the levy, maybe they won't mind that I just never buy a DVD or CD ever again and just pirate them all? I mean seriously, the fact that they are taxing me on that no matter what I used the media for (backups anyone?) really chafes.
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
The Grey Market in Canada, at least here in Montreal is pretty weak for any sort of goods. People don't seem to grasp the concept of depreciation and try to sell used goods at new prices and aren't open to negotiation. Considering the inflated retail prices relative to the US (which is only a half hour away)and insanely high sales tax (15%) one would think that the grey market would thrive.
The most efficient mechanism for allocating resources is the free market, not collectives or the government!
just wait for some illegal immigrants to read what you just said.
Read radical news here
Michael Geist has up a post on his site
He set us up the post?
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
Exactly, that was the lamest propaganda write up I have seen.
If you go grabbing kids by the collar either:
1) Some kid is going to punch you in the fucking head and you'll cry.
2) They will call the cops on you for assault, you go to jail and bubba sticks his tube steak in your cornhole, once again you'll cry.
Your idea is as stupid as your story. How do you expect your industry to make money if you black list 90% of your customers? So what if you over hear a kid saying he is going to upload the CD, at least HE IS BUYING the fucking thing from you.
I hope your business fails because your being a retard. We will not feel sorry for you as all you really are is a leech on the back of the RIAA who has been ripping off consumers for years.
I've seen this note being circulated for, I think, 5 years now. It doesn't get better with time, actually, it gets more and more pathetic. But even as a cookie-cutter template "think of the small record store owners" tear-squeezer, lemme take this opportunity to answer. Once, and for all.
First and foremost, when you invest in a dying business, you're the only one to blame if it goes south. The CD market is dwindling. Copying may play a role, but the bigger problem is that music and clothing, which has been for ages the only stuff kids and teenagers waste their money for, have to face serious competition in cellphones, computers and the gadgets (ringtones, games,...) for them. Music and the containers for them (records, tapes, CDs...) are no longer the only ones who try to lure teenagers into spending.
Second, when you aim at a certain demographic, make sure they have money to spend on your stuff. Families don't. More and more families today have less and less spending money. Also, show me at least one family that sits down together at home to listen to some CD instead of, say, watch TV. IF, and only if, they do anything at all together.
Third, a "national blacklist" won't do jack. Welcome to the world, pal. You won't sell to Mr. Copy? Ok, then he won't buy anything AT ALL anymore but copy everything. In a nutshell, it means that you will sell LESS. Not more. People don't fear paying a few thousand bucks to the mafiaa when they get sniffed out, you think they'd get their panties in a knot for not being allowed to take a step into some store anymore?
Btw, I don't consider the atrocity that the copyright laws have turned into "basic rules of society". It takes at the very least a good, specialized lawyer to actually understand that bullcrap. If those are the basic rules, what kind of lawyer does it take to understand the more complex ones? And what do they govern?
War on Piracy... Good idea, I personally dread sailing in the vicinity of Manila, it gets really, really dangerous there... but what the heck does this have to do with the topic?
And, seriously, if your daughters can't go to college, blame yourself for choosing a dead horse to bet your money on.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
We pay that "copyright mafiaa tax" too, but that doesn't mean we actually may copy anything. We still are not allowed to remove or circumvent copying restrictions to actually execute our right to create a backup, we still have no right to actually burn copyrighted content on those media, so I wonder what this "tax" is based on.
In fact, we pay for nothing.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Bungs huh? Yeah, have another one Cheech!
The entire premise of the system stinks of corruption: it is indefensible the idea of a blanket tax on media because some people use them for piracy -- I don't -- I do not go around illegally copying material -- but my government thinks I do, and decides to tax me for it. I'm sorry -- this is pure BS. How did we get such an idiot government?
They are trying to cut down on CDs being destroyed in microwave ovens. Each time this occurs, a small ammount of radiation escapes that is absorbed directly by the MAFIAA
CSS doesn't prevent you from copying DVDs.. wherever did you get that funny notion? It simply prevents you from playing them on unauthorized players (one's that haven't paid the play tax) or in unauthorized zones.
People over in the PRC press out massive quantities of DVD copies, CSS included, *all the time*.
You're reading Slashdot. Of course you like Linux and pc hardware
applies to Canada? There, I think we're back on topic.
If I'm not mistaken, "Stichting 'De Thuiskopie'" was asked to open up the books last year, they still have to do that.
Right now, it's a very murky picture.
We pay a copyright levy on CDs, cassettes, videotapes and DVDs (and we have a 0-levy on mp3-players, meaning that there is technically a levy on mp3players and portable storage devices, but it's 0. They wanted to increase this amount earlier this year, but that was thwarted (thankfully))
But we have absolutely no idea how many is being received by that organization, and who gets what percentage of that.
80 CC D8 AF AE D3 AB 54 B7 2E CE 67 C7
I'm at a loss at to why this is even seen as useful, regarless of how you feel about it.
From TFA: Create a new crime of life imprisonment for using pirated software - Anyone using counterfeit products who "recklessly causes or attempts to cause death" can be imprisoned for life...Justice Department officials gave the example of a hospital using pirated software instead of paying for it.
Is there a point to this? If anyone "recklessly causes or attempts to cause death", aren't they going to be punished under existing laws? Is it someone's offense more dire if they didn't also didn't have Windows Genuine Advantage as well?
How on Earth would this "return in the hands of the consumers" be organized.
By suspending the levy entirely until the overpayments have been made up for.
Sales of vinyl have been increasing year-over-year for the last 10 years according to several music mags. It is a small percentage, but it is increasing.
True, but I haven't noticed a change in the number of joggers running down the street with phonograph players in their hands.
As a Canadian, I don't mind paying the Levy on blank media, and I'd be in favour of a levy on MP3 players, IF it means that I can continue to be free from worrying about a Canadian RIAA busting down my door and lynching me for making backups of my own media or for putting a CD on my mp3 player. A very small price to pay indeed.
This levy saved the future of a friend of mine. He did use it as a defence in court that since he payed the levy on the cd's he buys and the HD's he used that since its done the time he thought it was alright to do the crime. The judge bought it because well its true, we have paid for piracy we might as well enjoy it. To be honest if we over pay a little into the system so much the better, it just give more fuel to the "But I've alriady paid for it" defence.
-Ours is the wisdom of Solomon, the magic of Merlyn, the fall of Icaris.
I have mixed thoughts on this. This levy was charged to the manufacturers/importers/retailers, right? The consumer made a free market exchange here. They thought the price was fair for the product, and they paid for it. Why should consumers get reimbursed?
If the government retroactively reduced corporate income taxes for last year, should consumers expect checks in the mail for all of the purchases they made? These are all business costs that factor into the price.
Now don't get me wrong: I completely disagree with the purpose of the levy to begin with. But I'm not sure how consumers must necessarily be the ones to benefit from this. Kudos to the corporations that do pass their relief onto their customers, but I don't understand how people are jumping to the conclusion that there's a legal obligation to do that.
It might have made more sense for them to make the adjustment, and simply deduct it from future sales. Consumers get "reimbursed" by virtue of (hopefully) lower prices in the near future, until the surplus is exhausted.
Well, the baby boomers are the nations largest demographic right now, and they grew up in the 60's and 70's when vinyl were all the craze. These sales of vinyl records are all probably due to collectors, or current teenagers who want vintage zeppelin albums to be "cool."
In 30 years cd sales will probably go up slightly for the same reason.
I got nothin'
There are lots of subsidies of Canadian art. Why not use the money to increase this funding or reduce the taxpayer's portion of it. You know, spend the money to help artists like they claimed when they took the money.
May I say welcome to the nanny state! I am all for out healthcare system, but the government in this country goes way too far to try and prop up our "culture" and things like "multiculturalism". It goes from annoying to downright infuriating knowing my tax dollars prop up crap like this. It's just another bureaucracy that is useless and yet is held up as some kind of icon for social responsibility like the gun registry.
And download enough to cover the overpayment. Consider it like a credit.
So how about the fact that most people don't even use this kind of Blank Media for music? Is this tax imposed upon iPods/mp3 players? Otherwise this has turned out to be a waste of money for Canadians, and hasn't achieved the goal set out at all.
- Kal`Goblez
Disregarding the fact that a recordable media levy is not a representative means of collecting royalties, it is a key thing that Canadians can point to in justification of their fair use rights over digital media - essentially, legitimizing copying of copyright protected material since we pay, through the levy, for that right. (i.e. the levy is a de facto assumption that all purchased media will be used for the purpose of copyright infringement, ergo we can use such media for that purpose with impunity as long as we continue to pay). The reduction of the levy is quite possibly the first step towards its complete elimination, which when it occurs would remove the inherent right to use recordable media in this fashion, and open ourselves up to the possible implementation (under US pressure) of draconian DMCA type legislation. As much as I agree with the assertion that the collected levies are not appropriately distributed, I would much rather continue to pay them and enjoy my fair use rights, than to allow our lawmakers to abolish the levy and then have nothing to counter the American copyright lobby with.
Yes, and at least for the people that I know, that's what they do -- therein lies the grey/black market
Buy a CD? HA!
Your business is failing because you sell obsolete merchandise, not because people refuse to abide by a system that doesn't make sense anymore. Compact discs often neither the best quality (vinyl) nor the best convenience (digital audio files), and therefore there's no reason to buy them. If you owned a horse and buggy business in the early 20th century, you'd probably have lost business to the rise of the auto industry. The government doesn't exist to keep obsolete business models perpetually in business. I'll not get into detail about how the music of this decade is trash and not worth buying.
The higher the levy the more people will simply transfer files over the internet instead of copying them to CD, which is bad for the environment. Levy away!
What powerful pirate lobby? The ones that passed the DMCA? Or who are pushing the Intellectual Property Protection Act of 2007? Oh wait, wrong lobby.
I know it's a shill and this is off-topic, but I can't resist...
:D
I guess even keeping "the kids" away from offensive lyrics and listening to good, earnest Christian rock with mom and dad didn't prevent them from becoming bad (copyright infringing) seeds
on a slightly less (but only slightly) silly note: IF you were to open a "family music" music store, you deserve to go bankrupt...
Chance favors the prepared mind...especially when you Question Authority
You mean all the shady Asian tech dealers in Richmond BC are here legally? wow.
Folks, let's just step back for a second. I have never paid the levy on media here in Canada. Why? Because the retailers I buy it from refuse to pay it. Go shop at your local little computer store, or even at London Drugs, where they do not pay the levy and refuse to do so, simply because of this reason! The levy exists, but to my knowledge only fools are charging their customers the levy, and only fools are paying it.
Oh sure I buy all my hardware from Atic. The Taiwan connection dood.
Good god, not Atic. GST evasion, they sell refurbs without telling you, and they install cracked windows on to new systems and charge people $50 for it.
Another "Letters to Penthouse" special. Damn I haven't even looked at one for years but this brought it all back. Even to a 60 year old ... nice letter dude.
By paying a "copyright tax" you are being effectively charged and punished for copying copyrighted data. By paying such a tax, you now have paid money for the works; after all, you're paying because it covers your potential actions. Now, logically, you've just paid for all the music you're about to download, and all the movies you're going to bittorrent.
Support my political activism on Patreon.
Once again, it's the JEWS, stupid...
Who runs the RIAA? Who never does manual labour? Who owns the entertainment industry and Congress?
I wonder...
Surely it couldn't be - the JEWS - could it?
You mustn't forget, they are "God's chosen people" - because a MAN told them...
Just hardware man. I know the people who run it. I've never seen a refurbished as new but yes they are very cheap. All my returns ... 2 in 10 years have been promptly handled and one was a Tyan mobo.
The judge obviously is just as corrupted and incompetant as the levy system. Actually, the Canadian law does not allow you to infringe copyright, whether there is a levy or not. It is just a propaganda lie to justify this million dollar scam, because CRIA can't legally go after downloaders.
If the government thinks that there is no grey or black market for un-levied blank media, they aren't looking. I live in a major west-coast Canadian city, and I have never paid the levy either. The only places that have I seen charge it are Future Shop and the like. Some stores will not charge you if you pay in cash, and some won't even bother trying to hide it at all.