Slashdot Mirror

Every major country spies - even Canada (ever hear of CSIS? https://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/in... ).

The real question is what they do with the information they're looking for. Do they conduct industrial espionage and give/sell it to companies who then can crush the competition? http://www.afr.com/technology/... (Note, not conclusively proven, but pretty scary potential example nonetheless, and a Canada-centric one at that)

Do they use it to try and influence democratic elections and destabilize peaceful political blocs, like Russia has been (and not just America - go look at France, or Germany, and their election troubles with the Russians).

Now I certainly won't claim the CIA, and US Government more generally, haven't done some f*cked up shit in the past (Iran/Persia, Central America, etc), but do try to keep some perspective on things.

Why did you steal our acronym? (Note: I'm Canadian)

Canadian Security Intelligence Service

My country doesn't have the budget, frankly. I'm Canadian.

Well, you thought wrong. The Communications Security Establishment has a very large budget. They have approximately the same mission as the American NSA.

The CSE is not widely known. The Canadian Security Intelligence Service gets most of the public & press attention.

And humour aside, the Canadian economy has been doing pretty well for the last 7 years and tax revenues are good. Significant progress has been made in paying off the crushing national debt incurred by many previous governments.

I was going to make a snide remark about Americans losing laptops full of secret data, but I try to keep from pissing off various other intelligence agencies along with CSIS. Mind you, we've lost laptops full of unsecured data too ... yeah, we have laptops up here. lol.

Heh, that would be http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/, although they are more like the CIA in reguards to their responsibilities....as they are more responsible for stuff outside the country. The RCMP is (see: http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/ for more info about them) is the closest thing we (Canadian's) have to the Secret Service. although, seeing as they pretty much helped condem a man to jail and torcher in Syria for a few years i don't really trust them...see more here: http://www.ararcommission.ca/eng/, not to talk about how there have been several people in Canada recently released out of jail because they were convicted wrongly for murder.

In Canada, we have four letter agencies. Any Tor proxies in Canada will not be scanned by mere 3 letter agencies.

Not that we'd look. After all, we're a polite people.

Canada does. http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/ But they tend to lose Secret documents at hockey games, and their idea of tourture is feeding people poutine until they risk cardiac arrest before rushing them to the hospital for free health care, feeling sorry and giving people Citizenship for any hardship they faced, then calling it a day and going to drink beer and watch hockey.

I would have thought a more devistating weapon would be announcing a North American Celine Dion tour?

Latest memo from CSIS to the Prime Minister's office: Agent 536CD is progressing well at her assignment in Las Vegas.

use one time pads. the only REAL secure solution.

I've toyed with this one myself to send chitchat back and forth to my Mum.

Use a geiger counter to fill a CD with random numbers, send a copy to Mum, and drive CSIS/NSA/GCHQ/etc. nuts with email that they can't decode.

Given a CD full of random numbers, a couple of lines of perl would do the rest...

Yeah, I know, I need to get out more. I even recorded the leap second on WWV earlier today. Sad or what?

...tick...tick...tick...(blank)...(blank)...BEEP ...tick...tick...

...laura

I used to use emacs SPOOK , mostly as a lark, in all my email. In particular, there was a spookmime hack for Xemacs VM that put Spook words into the MIME boundary lines of every email so that it would be unobtrusive to email users, but, supposedly, trigger NSA keyword sieves. I stopped after 2001-Sep-11, but if I were living in Canada again, I'd definitely consider using Spook again... though I'd probably have to write a plugin for Thunderbird to do it.

If every ISP found that a significant minority of all of their users always had Spook keywords embedded in all of their email and lots of other traffic, that the system would be rendered useless. This would be an effective means of peaceful protest. Ref: CSIS.

Through my family I've direct contact with people who have served in military intelligence. I know a few CSIS people and, I had the luck to spend ~14 hours locked in conversation with one of the architects of CSIS (he'd started out as a Polish citizen in WWII, was trained by what we came to know as the KGB, then he jumped ship to British Intelligence and finally came to Canada). He was an intelligent, insightful man but certainly far from a James Bond kind of a guy. His most telling trait, share by everyone I`ve met in the intelligence community, was a belief that things that needed to get done were best done covertly. I`ve been told that the best intelligence agents are inconspicuous. From everything I know I`d go with the "Danger Man" sort with the accent more on "The Prisoner".

The Russians in the Cold War were infamous for simply walking up to someone in the know at a cocktail party and innocuously asking pointed questions about sensitive material; the person being questioned might well be caught off guard by the social setting and laid back approach.

The only person I've known like a James Bond character was a Montreal vice cop who was an interpol agent, a martial arts expert and liked to review each violent episode he had lived through, but he wasn't anything like the intelligence people I've known. I doubt there are many, if any, James Bond types. There was a British sargent who, in the aftermath of WWII, was tasked with the assissination of deemed war criminals unlikely to be brought to justice. I saw him interviewed on the Discovery Channel. He was retired to a farm, spoke very unemotionaly about some of his excutions and showed a strong liking for Russian rifles as the then best assissination weapons. In the alternative, not to long ago, I met a British intelligence trained guy and while sharing a drink I brought up the subject of best gun for the job ( a 25 cal. in my opinion ). He dismissed the whole notion saying no one uses guns anymore. Theres a pin prick in your bottle of aftershave. You cut yourself shaving. Three months later you're dead.

cheers

Canada does not have to bother... it can torture people in its own prisons.

I don't know what you're saying here: that the Canadian government says it has the right to do so, or that it actually has done so? I've never heard of either.

Google for "Security Certificate".

Okay, too bad you didn't. It requires judicial involvement, unlike what the US government did and its lawyer argued:

"foreign citizens who change planes at airports in the United States can legally be seized, detained without charges, deprived of access to a lawyer or the courts, and even denied basic necessities like food ..."

Waco was kind of a slip there - or were you serious?

Canada is very nice and all, in fact I would not mind living there myself. But even Canada has some problems.

Frankly I think the reality is just about any place on earth is pretty safe from terrorism, short of a hotspot like Iraq.

But how much of this is really news? Our very own Canadian intelligence folks describe themselves as "...an organization with secrets to protect, not a secret organization." They provide detailed information on what's involved if you want to join them. The CIA have a detailed employment FAQ Try the GCHQ recruitment page.

If you click on Employment Opprtunities at the NSA, you get a blank window (at least in my version of Mozilla). The web version of invisible ink, perhaps?

...laura

A "medical" site that advertises "Alien Identities" and "The plot against civilisation / World Revolution" does NOT inspire confidence in the information presented.

Look, Jehovah's Witnesses bug me because they waste my time, but this is a wee bit over the top:

"Subliminal Mind Control & Manipulation Archive Features -- Jehovah Witnesses' Subliminal Covert Mind Control

And, just do let David Icke know, for future bullshit sessions, there is no CIA in Canada. We have CSIS instead. Therefore this little rant is a little pointless (and funny!) to us in Canada.

I do have to read more there, I haven't seen such a good wacko site in a LONG time.

Now, I saw you say that you were a separatist, which therefore makes you an official kook, but I think it's worth responding to a couple of these claims.

Okay, that's disturbing...but at least we don't give our taxes to an agency [nsa.gov] that routinely eavesdrop on its citizens AND those of other countries (Echelon, anyone?). Don't you think they have secret databases of their own, mmh?

The sad fact of the matter is that we do.

See:

• CSIS
• CSE
• A CP article on budget funding for CSIS and the CSE.

I can't be bothered to pay Stats Canada a few bucks to get the exact figure, but a CP article here puts CSIS's budget at roughly 200m per year. The link up above put the CSE's at 106m.

There's an article here that provides a couple alleged examples of illegal domestic operations by CSIS... Back in late September, there were a great number of newspaper articles from various sources discussing what CSIS does and doesn't do, among them were mentions of things such as statements by former foreign minister Lloyd Axworthy declaring that CSIS "does not undertake any kind of overseas operation," yet after musings about the creation of a new, foreign operations agency by the present government in the aftermath of the September 11th terrorist attacks in the USA, someone at CSIS, possibly the director, revealed that CSIS has, in the part, operated in foreign countries and maintained the ability to do so. It's so good to see the Liberal's foreign minister either deliberately lying about or actually ignorant of such goings-on.

Here is a page that gives brief summaries of several books about Canada's spy agencies, including one that gives details on a particular CSE operation in England.

Don't forget that any mail (ie, post), telephone conversation, or internet traffic that crosses an international border into or out of Canada is considered fair game, and can legally be intercepted. Again, there are many second hand reports that illegal domestic surveilance has also taken place for many years.

Next,
The National Post is one of Canada's most conservative newspapers. It is owned by Conrad Black

Incorrect. The National Post (I don't read it, myself) is now owned by CanWest (the Aspers), who are well-known Liberal supporters. If you've been following the news in the past week, you'll see many reports that they are *far* more restrictive of what gets printed in their papers than Conrad Black ever was. Black allowed dissent, apparently with *very* few topics (unknown to me) off limits. The Aspers are more than a little looser with the word 'taboo'. The Globe&Mail's search function never works for me, but I believe they ran something by a former National Post columnist titled 'Why I Quit the Post' on Monday or so.

Here's CSIS' mandate:

http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/eng/ backgrnd/back1e.html

the reason why the USA and Isreal would be interested in it is because the CSIS database would contain info about the possible whereabouts of US Criminals in Canada, etc., etc.

They would also have access to extradition hearings and things of the sort, which I believe (IANAL) is a violation of Internation Law.

Here's another story on the topic that should be interesting for all you conspiracy theorists.

• The nearest equivalent to the FBI ... is the RCMP - Royal Canadian Mounted Police. The RCMP also provides the services provided in the US by the Treasury Police, including dealing with "crimes about currency," and the protection of heads of state and diplomatic persons.
• The RCMP used to also perform services equivalent to the CIA, but this group was spun out, becoming CSIS - Canadian Security and Intelligence Service.

  There was a scandal where RCMP "spooks" burned a barn where purportedly nefarious people were planning ill; the "public" view was that this made the RCMP look bad, and so the RCMP wanted no more to do with the "spooky" activities. When they're the "secret service," who can really be sure???. The public face on this was thus:

  The establishment of the civilian Canadian Security Intelligence Service and the disbanding of the Royal Canadian Mounted Police Security Service by an Act of Parliament in 1984 recognized the differences between security intelligence activities and law enforcement work. The 120-year old interlocking of Canada's security intelligence service with the federal police force was brought to a close.

• The nearest equivalent to the NSA is the Communications Security Establishment, an "establishment" in the Department of National Defence.

  See also the CSE Unofficial Web Page, which has a rather interesting discussion of the organization.

  They are a mixed civilian/military group largely devoted to "signals analysis," and include pretty much the same functions associated with the NSA, notably not including having their own chip foundries. (Unless there's one hiding somewhere in Labrador!)

  Notable "listening" sites include Gander (a formerly notable airport), Alert (the most northerly inhabited place in the world), Masset, and Kingston. My father used to work next door to CSE headquarters, the Sir Leonard Tilley Building.

--locust

The 'secret service' in Canada is CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Service) which was split off from the RCMP in 1984 (is the date a coincidence?). They keep a pretty low profile.

They don't. Very junior CSIS (Canadian Security Intelligence Service) people do all background checks, for immigration and for government security checks.

I think your statement that "There is nothing we can do to prevent a determined individual or group from commiting an act of terrorism" is pretty close to the truth.

What we need to realise (as the army often does when evaluating war) is that there _will_ be casualties. After realising that, we decide where the minimal point is; do we need to add full display body scanners? Well, do they prevent said determined persons? No. Will they prevent drug smugglers? Maybe. Are there other ways to prevent drug smuggling? Yes. Do we need the scanners? No. (Hypothetically speaking).

What we also need is more universal use of known terrorist face shots being forced on customs / security officials for recognition. Its not like the CIA/CSIS/FBI/etc. doesn't have a good list of desciptions with photos. Sure, its not complete, but this would help a lot.

I'm closer to being British than you (as I am a Canadian) -- and I'm quite proud of the fact that I don't have to bear arms. In fact, it's almost always been illegal to carry a gun in Canada. Guess what, we all feel safer for it. No one who knows their stuff feels safer carrying a gun -- all it means is you can shoot back. It's not going to stop you from getting shot. No one carrying a gun does make you safer ... those who do? Law enforcement should (and pretty much does) handle them, not vigilanteism.

If you break into my house, I can call the police or have an alarm system (that costs less than a Colt 45). What good does it do me to own a gun?

Personal privacy, on the other hand, is a different matter -- so don't alienate those who believe in personal privacy by bringing unrelated matters into it. I know that CSIS - <http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca> does random wiretaps and that doesn't bother me much. I'm more worried about keeping drug lords and other large crime rings under control than my personal privacy to that extent. There is, after all, no way for the national security agencies to know if you're a criminal or not until you're caught. Unless, of course, you're saying that criminals are all caught (ha!).

CSIS actually has a well-written statement on that subject in their 1998 report: (emphases mine)

The bombings of American embassy buildings in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam are an indication that terrorists will target a country or system that is perceived to be the least defended. Canada cannot afford to be viewed as such a place. Canada's (and the US') long border and coastlines appeal to terrorist organizations.... As with other democracies, Canada's openness and respect for individual rights and freedoms preclude the suppression of terrorism by ruthless methods. While distance and moderation may make Canada a less likely target than other countries, Canada can also be seen as a relatively safe haven for the same reasons. Finally, the open nature of Canadian society makes us particularly vulnerable to terrorist influence and activities within expatriate communities. Canadians are not immune to violent acts driven by political or religious extremism.

< http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/en g/publicrp/pub1998e.html>

At any rate, use PGP for E-mail ... protect yourself the right way.

I'm closer to being British than you (as I am a Canadian) -- and I'm quite proud of the fact that I don't have to bear arms. In fact, it's almost always been illegal to carry a gun in Canada. Guess what, we all feel safer for it. No one who knows their stuff feels safer carrying a gun -- all it means is you can shoot back. It's not going to stop you from getting shot. No one carrying a gun does make you safer ... those who do? Law enforcement should (and pretty much does) handle them, not vigilanteism.

If you break into my house, I can call the police or have an alarm system (that costs less than a Colt 45). What good does it do me to own a gun?

Personal privacy, on the other hand, is a different matter -- so don't alienate those who believe in personal privacy by bringing unrelated matters into it. I know that CSIS - <http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca> does random wiretaps and that doesn't bother me much. I'm more worried about keeping drug lords and other large crime rings under control than my personal privacy to that extent. There is, after all, no way for the national security agencies to know if you're a criminal or not until you're caught. Unless, of course, you're saying that criminals are all caught (ha!).

CSIS actually has a well-written statement on that subject in their 1998 report: (emphases mine)

The bombings of American embassy buildings in Nairobi and Dar es Salaam are an indication that terrorists will target a country or system that is perceived to be the least defended. Canada cannot afford to be viewed as such a place. Canada's (and the US') long border and coastlines appeal to terrorist organizations.... As with other democracies, Canada's openness and respect for individual rights and freedoms preclude the suppression of terrorism by ruthless methods. While distance and moderation may make Canada a less likely target than other countries, Canada can also be seen as a relatively safe haven for the same reasons. Finally, the open nature of Canadian society makes us particularly vulnerable to terrorist influence and activities within expatriate communities. Canadians are not immune to violent acts driven by political or religious extremism.

< http://www.csis-scrs.gc.ca/en g/publicrp/pub1998e.html>

At any rate, use PGP for E-mail ... protect yourself the right way.