Slashdot Mirror

I really like this in-depth comparison of the GPL and MS's Eula

...this whole conversation is confusing to me. Are people trying to say the EULA allows returning Windows?

Yes - see this comparison for more details (relatively small pdf).

thats an easy one: http://www.cybersource.com.au/press/linux_vs_windo ws_tco_comparison.html and this TCO even tries to put MS in good favor even. yet, sadly, it failed to measure up.
___
why are all my comments rated -1 ?

See the page at http://www.cybersource.com.au/product/safe_interne t_computer/, and look at the pretty S5 slideshow (the screenshots page). It's a Knoppix-based computer (it's branded as a hardware solution) that's been designed to make Windows users feel at home - IceWM with the SilveradoXP theme, OO.O listed as "Word Processor," "Spreadsheet," etc. Users can use the internet safely, and even if something is compromised, it will be gone at reboot. Of course, there are some complications involved with not having any permanent storage, but the system basically works.

Disclaimer: I'm somewhat connected to Cybersource, but I don't have anything to gain from this.
-ReK

The next "last straw" for some people may be this prediction from Microsoft-Watch:

Microsoft's biggest announcement of the year won't be Yukon (SQL Server 2005) or Whidbey (Visual Studio 2005). Instead, it will be an as-yet-unannounced anti-virus/anti-spyware subscription service for which Microsoft will charge.
Source: http://tinyurl.com/3sht4

More likely MSFT will quietly offer this to their bigger customers to keep them from switching to OSS while the great sea of consumer users will have to pay. Or maybe they'll be smart and give it away, but that's a little like hoping dubya will really be a uniter and not a divider.

I think IDC's estimates are conservative. Now that the ball is rolling down hill it will only continue to accelerate. Aided by MSFT's almost uncanny ability to treat their customers like criminals.

I'm a former employee of Cybersource, as well as the person who was tasked with creating the first draft copy of this TCO (a much earlier version back in 2002?).

While Cybersource is a firm that promotes and specialises in Open Source, a vast amount of the work their consultants undertake is on propietry systems, whether that be Microsoft, Sun or other *nix based systems. The TCO is in no way biased, because as we all know, fudged results always get found out and that would do nothing but damage their business.

Because Cybersource work so much with Linux transitions however, they have seen the actual results for themselves (and their business relies on this to be true http://www.cybersource.com.au/services/cybersource _open_source_strategic_planning_services.html ). Of course they're going to release a TCO if over a decade in the industry has shown them the benefits.

I won't bother going any further, because unlike many other /.'ers, I really don't care much for flames.

Note: The above are my personal views and opinions, and are in no way an official representation on behalf of Cybersource.

One could have typed an extra six characters and of had a working link:

http://www.cybersource.com.au/about/linux_vs_windo ws_tco_comparison.pdf

Although its fairly new, slashdot added autolinking urls with the <url:http://example.com> special tag. Its worth using instead of copying and pasting a url and having slashcode add spaces in it and fudge it up.

Here's the link in clickable form: Study PDF

An updated Linux vs Windows TCO study has found that a 250-seat company can end up saving 36 percent if it were to equip its users with the open source operating system and applications that run on it.

The study, by Melbourne-based open source firm Cybersource, found that even use of a commercial Linux distribution such as Red Hat Enterprise Linux, would result in 27 percent lower costs.

The study was first issued in April 2002. "We have now updated this report to accommodate the changes in both platforms. We have also extended the model to increase its relevance and accuracy," said Con Zymaris, chief executive officer of Cybersource.

The study covers the average requirements over a period of three years. Zymaris said the timeframe was chosen because the costs of upgrading had to be borne repeatedly in the case of Windows.

He said given the fact that the company deals in open source products, four aspects had been factored in to tip the scales towards Microsoft:

• The model was not modified to to reflect research by the Robert Frances Group which showed that Linux needed 82 percent fewer staff resources.
• The costs of malware - viruses, spyware, worms, keyloggers, adware - were not taken into account. Zymaris said every research point found had suggested that this cost was essentially and predominantly a Windows platform cost, resulting in billions lost by business every year.
• Costs which arose when systems need to be pre-emptively rebooted or crashed, resulting in unscheduled downtime, were not taken into account. "All our research indicates that Linux rarely if ever suffers such problems and open source platforms on the whole are extremely robust," Zymaris said.
• "Finally, because Microsoft has claimed that introducing Linux into an environment will lead to increased reliance on external consultants, we have tripled the amount budgeted for such requirements on the Linux models," he said.

"The costing models include expenses such as workstations, servers, networking, IT staff, consultancy fees, internet service charges, file, mail and print servers, e-commerce servers, SQL and network infrastructure servers, internet and intranet servers, line-of-business software, desktop productivity applications, external training, printers as well as miscellaneous systems costs," Zymaris said.

I got it.... but if one defines piracy as "violation of license agreement of the software product" it is quite possible to pirate linux and somebody may already have done that.

It's hard to sympathize with any company whose actions have been so underhanded . They ruined their own business a long time ago, and their current legal manuevering is at best an ugly money grab.

But it seems the impact on Linux will be, at worst, a re-write of any SCO-owned code, should any be found.

FOSS will never die.

1998 - Finished high school. Was career-minded kinda guy. Decided I'd rather get an exciting job than go to University (I'd done some tertiary stuff in year 12, but three years of Uni just wasn't my thing).

1999 - I'd already had a lot of experience playing with Windows NT out of interest, so I got an MCSE to try and prove my skills to potential employers. Volunteered to assist my local 1300-member LUG at an IT show. Met my future boss, Con Zymaris from Cybersource *. Ended up being the 'Windows guy' at a Linux / Unix / BSD shop. Spent most of my time learning Linux.

1999 - Began career as Linux journo - was initially asked to do Linux software for APC magazine's CD ROM, but I went beyong the brief and wrote a 2 page article on Linux gaming. They liked it and put it in the mag. I then worked on Linux workshop, a couple of Linux features, wrote a little under half of the Linux Pocketbook Third Edition, more than half of the Advanced Linux Pocketbook, became PC Authority magazine's Linux columnist, and then was poached back to APC briefly before the editor that got me there left and mag and me went in different directions. **

During this time, I still got half my income from Linux consulting for Cybersource.

2002 - Wrote and began teaching a Linux training course for Advanced Training, Melbourne. Again, still worked consulting for Cyber.

2003 - Got poached by Red Hat Asia Pacific. Teach RHCE courses, and the nifty new RHCA type courses (which cover clustering, packaging, cross platform authentication, etc).

Spending the weekend learning about Kerberos, LDAP and Active Directory to teach the 423 course.

* Yes, the current Cyber web site looks terrible in Moz. It used to work ok in every browser - then Moz changed its rendering technique. Since I was respomsible for the original non-standard code, there's a fully XHTML version I templated just before I left here. Hopefully Cyber wil start using that one soon.

** I've been told that APC's readers want to do 'the hard stuff'. I disagree - people want to do interesting, useful cool things, regardless of whether they're hard or not. These guys are mbasically Windows power users, who want the basic stuff (installing, setting up a web server) to be easy, so they can focus on doing the cool stuff - anything that's cool or easier / cheaper / better than Windows. I reckon showing people how to do practical stuff with cool apps like QEmu, MythTV, Liferea, etc. is more interesting than yet another guide to installing Apache (including a page of how to compile it, for no other reason than Compiling Makes You Leet).

If I was gonna wrote about Apache, I'd write about creating a blog or CMS using Movabletype, or show people how to get Apache serving ASP 1.1 with mod_mono.

I had a great time at APC, and met some cool people, including Ashton Mills (who's now the editor of Atomic) and David Flynn (an editor who's simply damn good at his job). But the mag's editors don't want what I have to offer anymore, and I don't want to write what they offer me. Pity.

Well, not everything MS does is evil. But their EULA comes might close in my book.

In the commercial Linux distro's, SuSE comes to mind that sells you an upgrade version and of course Gentoo and Debian can just upgrade without reinstall.

And, BTW, how can (sane?) person who respects their rights click I agree to Microsoft's EULA when upgrading to XP?

Read here for a breakdown what you are surrendering when you blindly accept Microsoft's terms. Disgusting IMHO.

http://www.cybersource.com.au/users/conz/linux_vs_ sco_matrix.html

The study found that while 45 percent of the EULA was concerned with limiting users' rights, only 27 percent of the GPL concentrated on this aspect. Over half (51 percent) of the GPL focused on extending users' rights while only 15 percent of the EULA was concerned with this aspect. And while 40 percent of the EULA limited remedies, the corresponding figure for the GPL was 22 percent.

The other 9% had not yet seen the "decision matrix" that demonstrated clearly, and without any bias, that "Linux is unaffected" in all cases. If they had seen this matrix prior to taking part in the poll, they would have answered differently. At the time, however, they still had concerns that were being looked into.

Please be aware that some companies are not yet aware of this decision matrix, or, worse, have formulated their own that does not come to the same conclusion. Please spread the word.

The ability to bash/sftp your data to/from your desktop? = PRICELESS
Not having evil bill's EULA in your PDA? = PRICELESS
Being able to play KBILL on your PDA? = PRICELESS
The pure oldschool joy of NETHACK on your PDA? = PRICELESS

ince the Linux vs. SCO dispute has become quite complex, I have taken the time to distil the various issues of contention into a format which lends itself to easier digestion, and have drawn possible likely outcomes for these issues raised by SCO. Sources for all claims made herein are supplied as footnotes.

www.cybersource.com.au/users/conz/linux_vs_sco_mat rix.html