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The guy has no plan, he just likes to attack.

Just in case anyone was about to believe that baseless allegation:

Dean's Plan for Ensuring Civil Rights
Dean's Plan for the Economy
Dean's Plan for the Environment
Dean's Plan for Health Care
Dean's Plan for Education

The guy has no plan, he just likes to attack.

Just in case anyone was about to believe that baseless allegation:

Dean's Plan for Ensuring Civil Rights
Dean's Plan for the Economy
Dean's Plan for the Environment
Dean's Plan for Health Care
Dean's Plan for Education

The guy has no plan, he just likes to attack.

Just in case anyone was about to believe that baseless allegation:

Dean's Plan for Ensuring Civil Rights
Dean's Plan for the Economy
Dean's Plan for the Environment
Dean's Plan for Health Care
Dean's Plan for Education

The guy has no plan, he just likes to attack.

Just in case anyone was about to believe that baseless allegation:

Dean's Plan for Ensuring Civil Rights
Dean's Plan for the Economy
Dean's Plan for the Environment
Dean's Plan for Health Care
Dean's Plan for Education

Dean for America strongly opposes spam and has in place a "no spam" policy. We recently contracted with two vendors who made assurances that their lists were opt-in only. On Tuesday, August 12th, Dean for America received notification from a supporter that spam was being sent. We terminated our relationship with both vendors immediately.

There are currently no third party vendors authorized to send email on behalf of Dean for America and none planned in the future.

Please send any additional complaints to abuse@deanforamerica.com.

Ehrm... (not connected w/ the Dean campaign or any other in any way, shape, or form -- I'm just an interested observer :)...

Have you looked at deanforamerica.com? I'd say that site is a good indicator of Internet-awareness. The man has a *blog*, for crying out loud! Actually, all the Democratic candidates are trying to capitalize on the Internet, which is IMHO a Good Thing, though it's taking some of them longer than others.

Contrast Dean's site with Bush's (ooh, shiney) for a good illustration of why the former is considered "net-savvy." (yes i know incumbents don't need to mobilize as early as challengers, yes i know Bush's site is a "temporary site," but Dean's campaign is still a masterful example of how to mobilize the internet community. i long for the day when the *president* writes a daily weblog.)

Oh, and if you think Dean is another Democrat who is against everything Slashdotters hold dear, check out some of his posts on Lawrence Lessig's blog. (Kucinich has some interesting things to say here as well. He's even pro-GPL!)

At the moment, yes, we are that weak. That is not a moral failing on our part, it's simply an inevitable outcome of a winner-take-all electoral system.

Now we are so fat and lazy that only federalized health care (Democrats) or waging war on the world (Republicans) is the only way we will survive? We just sit back into our cushy sofa, watch CNN, and suck of the US Government propery milk bottle provided to each and every American each morning?

We aren't fat and lazy (well, not all of us anyway ;^)). As you observe, our two-party political system is failing us badly, and it needs to be changed. But in order to change the system, we need to get control of the system, and barring some miracle that almost certainly won't happen, third parties are not the means by which that change is going to come about. I'm a dues-paying member of the Green Party myself, and as much as I like the Greens, I'm not blind to how the system works. So that leaves us two choices -- change by ballot initiative (a possibility in California, but not nationwide), or change by means of electing change-friendly major-party candidates. Admittedly, change-friendly major party candidates are rare, almost by definition, but Howard Dean is one of them -- he's in favor of both Instant Runoff Voting and Public Campaign Financing -- two reforms that would each improve our level of Democracy drastically. He's also on the right side of many other issues, and is an intelligent, outspoken, and charismatic candidate to boot.

So if you want to bitch about how bad our political system is and play the rebel without actually changing anything, then maybe a third party candidate is the choice for you. If, on the other hand, you actually want to see some positive changes occur, Dean is your man in 2004.

After the 2000 election, I don't think third parties are going to get much traction in 2004. People see them only having a spoiling effect -- voting third party has the same effect as staying home, as far as the results are concerned.

But all is not lost... the Democrats have a very impressive candidate in the running this time.

I think the two-tiered model offered by sites like /. and Salon is excellent. It allows unsubscribed users to use the site, 'paying' by dealing with advertisements and limited functionality. Those willing to cough up a few bucks can skip the ads and are rewarded with an expanded feature set as well.

IMHO, it's fair, practical, and the best of both worlds.

"Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country."
--- Herman Goering, Nazi Leader explaining how to con the populace into war.

REGIME CHANGE BEGINS AT HOME: Dean For America in 2004
Get the fascists and theocrats out of the Whitehouse!

What we need are some politicians who are knowledgeable about tech issues. Some like Howard Dean are a step in the right direction, and it will have to come down from the top as there are too many folks in congress that have no real impetus to get involved with on-line voting. Shoot even with recent administrations, personal computers were almost nowhere to be seen in the first Bush administration. All I saw there were the Sun workstations used by the military and other departments. A Windows or Macintosh computer was nowhere to be seen. The Clinton administration was considerably more computer literate and I've seen Cheney with a Powerbook when he is in Jackson, but for the most part these guys are not up with the tech times.

Man, I'd be in heaven if I could wear my Utilikilt to the office. Unfortunately that's about as likely as SCO winning a Tuxie next year.

" They're also fairly "socialist" at least by the standards of people who like to throw around terms like "liberal" as insults."

The word became an insult to most because of the actions of the people who call themselves "liberal". They wrecked the word.

Howard Dean: Karl Rove's Choice to Bring On a Bush Landslide

If you read up on his views on his website, the best way to sum it up is that he likes guns, dykes, and fiscal responsibility, and at least understands what the Internet is and how to use it effectively. It's a good mixture, IMO.

it isn't rich people who are giving $1000, it's middle-class people

good lord! what kind of drugs are you on?

lookie, here's some real dope. the average 2Q donation to Dean was $112. the average 2Q online donation to Dean was $74. only 129 of the 45,000 2Q online contributors to Dean gave $1000 or more.

http://blog.deanforamerica.com/archives/000584.htm l

i'm involved in local Dean organizing through meetups. we track of our local donations to Dean for America. locally our average donation is $51. that's what the middle class gives. and by middle class, i mean that our donors range from college students to psychiatrists.

we had exactly *one* guy, a republican and local CEO, who gave a big donation. not exactly middle class. but then, he was the exception. without his donation, our local average would have been more like $40.

i'm sorry, but if you bother to check out those $1000 and $2000 per plate Bush dinners, you will definitely *not* find the middle class present.

That is such a good idea that I just went and contacted him about it (well, I contacted his mail-reading interns anyway...) I welcome other to do the same.

Why don't you check out Howard Dean's site (especially the blog):
http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/PageServer>

Everyone knows that our politicians are bought by a wealthy minority of corporations, but if you are not contributing to the guys who are the most willing to listen to "little people" like us, then you have noone to blame but yourself.

Howard Dean has been "bought" but bought by around 80,000 individuals who donated the most to his compaign. When did YOU last buy a politician?

Dean will not presume to teach you anything about the internet with his guest blogging. He's a doctor and politician, not a geek. You will see many more questions from him than answers. What we are seeing here is a Presidential candidate who has decided to seek a crash education on government policy and the internet, on the internet, and from the people best able to give it to him: geeks. Such willingness to put himself in the line of fire of some of the best minds in the field displays great intellectual courage and tremendous confidence in us, his constituents, to be his foils, his educators, and his policy team. The reason people don't know Dean's positions on many of the issues which concern us is because he doesn't yet have any worth mentioning - we are still 6 months from the earliest primaries, after all. This guest-blog is likely to be his deepest education on these topics to date and will likely help him form the very opinions, if not the very policies, he will carry into the battle for the Presidency. He knows that the positions many of you advocate are tested by intense peer scrutiny (unlike the product of most think-tanks these days), tested in the market place, yet leavened by the insights of technologists and philosophers. I hope every geek in the realm will be pounding madly at their keyboards to help educate Dean. What you say here may well find it's way into the policies advocated by a Dean Administration. You may be educating our future President, the first Internet President; don't let your President down.

Oh, he'll keep the Left, if nominated. After all, the choice is Bush, and Dean is so much better for the left than Bush is, the Left will come out en-mass to vote for Dean. I think a lot of them learned their lesson from the Nader fiasco in 2000. They won't be staying home. Some of them may not vote FOR Dean, but they will vote AGAINST Bush, and that helps Dean.

As for no credible defense policy, check out this:

Restoring American Leadership:
A New Direction for American Foreign Policy

And as for his message and positioning, he offers a very positive, optimistic view of the future, which counters the Bush Administration's tactic of using gloom and doom and scare tactics. I think his candidacy speech says a lot, and is well worth reading:

Great American Restoration

Oh, he'll keep the Left, if nominated. After all, the choice is Bush, and Dean is so much better for the left than Bush is, the Left will come out en-mass to vote for Dean. I think a lot of them learned their lesson from the Nader fiasco in 2000. They won't be staying home. Some of them may not vote FOR Dean, but they will vote AGAINST Bush, and that helps Dean.

As for no credible defense policy, check out this:

Restoring American Leadership:
A New Direction for American Foreign Policy

And as for his message and positioning, he offers a very positive, optimistic view of the future, which counters the Bush Administration's tactic of using gloom and doom and scare tactics. I think his candidacy speech says a lot, and is well worth reading:

Great American Restoration

Read his speech to the council on foreign relations:

Restoring American Leadership:
A New Direction for American Foreign Policy

It might give you some insight. His position is very logical and is based on many issues, such as having real justification. Pre-emptive war on the flimsiest of pretexts just to settle old scores or further hidden secret agendas is not a valid reason to go to war in his mind. Or mine.

Note Dean supported the war in Afghanistan as well. He's not an arbitrary unthinking "dove". He's for the RESPONSIBLE and NECESSARY use of our military might. Not the reckless and unjustified use, against international law and against the consensus of our closest allies.

For all of the attention Gov. Dean seems to be putting into the internet, the lack of anything related to technology on the issues page on his website seems odd. How does he feel about the DMCA? Requiring the government to release papers in open data formats? The positions taken by the EFF?

Also, I can't seem to find anywhere on Gov. Dean's site who his campaign staff is, and if I could find that his campaign manager was a Joe Trippi, I still wouldn't know that you were him. I mean no disrespect, but there's no proof that you are or are not Gov. Dean's campaign manager.

Look at Dean's support base - He has thousands of people giving small amounts of money.
He doesn't need PAC's or Business subsidies!
This is one of the main reasons I support the man.

The only reply that needs to be made to this is to just ask you to read something direct from the horse's mouth, not something from the horse's @$$ ;) May I humbly sumbit the Dean For America homepage?

Thanks :)

I bet Dean is ... anti-gay rights ...

Actually, he's the one responsible for the legalization of same sex civil unions in Vermont. Here's more on Dean's pro-gay rights stance.

I also live in Vermont and have for the last 8 years. I have a lot of respect for Dean. I didn't think he had a chance at first, but his candidacy seems to be gaining ground.

One of the things I like about him is that every week he'd appear on a public radio call-in show called "Switchboard". It ended up being a kind of town meeting where Vermonters could air grievances, offer praise and talk about issues with the governor. He discussed the issues rationally and with a lot of clarity. He knows what he's talking about and doesn't require sticking to a script to get his point across.

Check out his stance on the issues. His political views are not just empty "mom and apple pie" rhetoric, he has made good on most of his promises to the people of Vermont.

For those who have not been following the election carefully so far, Dean first distinguished himself by opposing the war in Iraq. This position is looking rather good now that the Yellowcake scandal is brewing in the media. Yesterday he made the particulaly astute move of calling for those responsible for inserting the false claim into the Presidents State of the Union to resign. He is also backing up his claims with some excellent research on his website:

Then and now quotes
A timeline
A chart contrasting claims with evidence (pdf)

For a long time I have been impressed with Dean's use of the internet which includes the much publicized meetup (slashdot story). Dean now has by far the largest meetup with over 60,000 signed up: Dean Meetup

Dean's fundraising over the internet has also been exceptional - he raised over 800,000 in one day at the end of the last quarter. In addition the campaign manager, Joe Trippi, frequents the blogs - he will surely read this so be aware that any advice will be noted - and seems to have a keen vision and sense for how the internet can help the campaign.

Even if you don't agree with Dean's policies, it is probably worth watching just to see how political campaigns of the future might change with the internet.

For those who have not been following the election carefully so far, Dean first distinguished himself by opposing the war in Iraq. This position is looking rather good now that the Yellowcake scandal is brewing in the media. Yesterday he made the particulaly astute move of calling for those responsible for inserting the false claim into the Presidents State of the Union to resign. He is also backing up his claims with some excellent research on his website:

Then and now quotes
A timeline
A chart contrasting claims with evidence (pdf)

For a long time I have been impressed with Dean's use of the internet which includes the much publicized meetup (slashdot story). Dean now has by far the largest meetup with over 60,000 signed up: Dean Meetup

Dean's fundraising over the internet has also been exceptional - he raised over 800,000 in one day at the end of the last quarter. In addition the campaign manager, Joe Trippi, frequents the blogs - he will surely read this so be aware that any advice will be noted - and seems to have a keen vision and sense for how the internet can help the campaign.

Even if you don't agree with Dean's policies, it is probably worth watching just to see how political campaigns of the future might change with the internet.

For those who have not been following the election carefully so far, Dean first distinguished himself by opposing the war in Iraq. This position is looking rather good now that the Yellowcake scandal is brewing in the media. Yesterday he made the particulaly astute move of calling for those responsible for inserting the false claim into the Presidents State of the Union to resign. He is also backing up his claims with some excellent research on his website:

Then and now quotes
A timeline
A chart contrasting claims with evidence (pdf)

For a long time I have been impressed with Dean's use of the internet which includes the much publicized meetup (slashdot story). Dean now has by far the largest meetup with over 60,000 signed up: Dean Meetup

Dean's fundraising over the internet has also been exceptional - he raised over 800,000 in one day at the end of the last quarter. In addition the campaign manager, Joe Trippi, frequents the blogs - he will surely read this so be aware that any advice will be noted - and seems to have a keen vision and sense for how the internet can help the campaign.

Even if you don't agree with Dean's policies, it is probably worth watching just to see how political campaigns of the future might change with the internet.

>Americans fear and loath Managed health care and the right to see their own doctor.

Much of the democratic base is part of that 40 million of uninsured Americans. Yeah, managed is a scary word yet what does the M in HMO stand for? Maintence/Management its the same thing. What plan does your company offer you? What plans do most companies offer? Highly managed plans.

Public healthcare, especially in a wealthy country like the US, is very doable. Its not just Europe's way or the US's way. From what I understand Dean's plan is more about expanding medicare to include children and poor people up till age 25 and helping small business insure its employees. Not exactly Denmark.

> Canadians prefer our system to their's in critical care

That's a pretty general statement. I'm sure they would be scared shitless if faced with the real possibility of not having insurance for years. Not to mention they have money in their pocket to spend on American specialists because they aren't paying through the nose on every doctor's visit or saddled with debt after some accident. The number 1 cause of bankrupcy is medical bills. Its also fiscally responsible to insure as many people as possible. Either way you're paying for it. Might as well get something in return.

Fiscal Plan PDF

Education Plan PDF

I think Dean has done a great job of providing a lot of information and resources on his webpage. I would urge Slashdot readers to browse through and sign up for the email newsletters. Any Democrat will need early support to deny Bush a 2nd term.

Fiscal Plan PDF

Education Plan PDF

I think Dean has done a great job of providing a lot of information and resources on his webpage. I would urge Slashdot readers to browse through and sign up for the email newsletters. Any Democrat will need early support to deny Bush a 2nd term.

>. The Democrats are desperate for the voters that went Green last time, because they know they need them.

The dems don't want him, they want their boy Gephart or *shudder* Lieberman. The DLC publically flogged Dean supporters by calling them "the activist elite" and tried to compare them to politcally impotent ultra-lefties. Dean supports responded back here.

The green vote simply isn't important. I'm sure that more than half of those votes are permanent third-party protest votes and regardless of what the Dems want you to think it was a bad ballot and a piss-poor Gore campaign that got Bush into office.

Regardless, everyone who isn't in the GOP wants an electable Democrat. I can't see why Dean wouldn't fit the bill, especially with Iraq turing out to be a quite the quagmire for Bush.

Sorry, but there's no ploy. Dean is fighting influencial (read: very wealthy and very connected) members of his own party right now and in interesting ways (appeal to the populace, net-based action, etc) just to get heard.

I am usually very against guns. I hate them personally but growing up in the country with family members that hunt I have no problems with them in a general sense. What Dean says on gun control makes sense. Why should it be the same in small town Vermont as it is in inner city LA? Read it for youself...Dean for America

Well, if you're a conservative it might be tough to convince you, but it's admirable though that you're willing to hear and consider different points of view. While Dean has been branding himself as a liberal, in truth his record is very moderate. Three main reasons I support him are economics, national security, and foreign policy.

On economics, Bush has given huge tax cuts to the rich and not cut spending at all. This has turned our biggest surplus in history to our biggest deficit. In fact, while on the surface he cuts taxes, his economic stewardship in fact is causing states to rise taxes, effectively increasing taxes for the lower and middle classes. Dean is a fiscal conservative. He believes strongly in a balanced budget and often fought off Democrats in the Vermont legislature who wanted to increase spending, because he believes fiscal discipline is important. He wants a national health care plan but it costs much less than the Iraqi occupation will cost and much less than the tax cuts, and also less than Dick Gephardt's plan.

On national security, I believe that contrary to popular perception, Bush is very weak. Bush has stifled the 9/11 commission that was investigating our intelligence failures. The non-partisan Council of Foreign Relations believes that the terrorist threat is greater and ever and that there isn't enough spending on security. I believe that Bush has simply exploited 9/11 in order to further his own agenda rather than making us safer. Also, I believe that Bush has made the Justice Department too powerful and given law enforcement way too much power. I am somewhat of a social libertarian and I believe that if government has too much power it will tend to abuse it. Dean's plan I think would do a lot more to improve our national security.

The last thing is foreign policy. Bush's policy of pre-emption is very dangerous and is alienating the entire world and creating bad precedents. Bush manipulated intelligence reports in order to make the case for the Iraqi war and now his facts are crumbling and the CIA is very upset. This has become a scandal in Britain, where the media is more open. Dean opposed the Iraqi war not because he thought Saddam was a good person but because he thought we risked alienating the rest of the world and because he thought Iraq didn't pose a threat to us. Dean would make America a leader in the world and maintain our military supremacy but he would work with the world community, not against it. For example, if we gave Iraq a bit more time we might have been able to create a multinational coalition that would greatly reduce the nation building costs. We will be there for ten years at tens of billions of dollars per year and it's using up half our military, threatening our security and costing lives, all for an exaggerated threat.

Dean often comments that Bush has forgotten ordinary people, and I believe that Bush is more concerned with his special interests than helping the American people. Dean is a man of the people, willing to speak what he thinks, even when it goes against his party line. He's honest and has a proven track record from his time in Vermont. I think he'd make a great President.

Of course, one more USA measure to control the rest of the world.

The trends in the government toward an Orwellian society sinerely worry me. Ashcroft and Bush have exploited 9/11 in order to pass many new laws that curb the openness of American society. They do all this under the guise of "national security" -- and yet we are not any more secure -- the non-partisan Council of Foreign Relations recently put out a report, saying that "Nearly two years after 9/11, the United States is drastically underfunding local emergency responders and remains dangerously unprepared to handle a catastrophic attack on American soil, particularly one involving chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-impact conventional weapons. If the nation does not take immediate steps to better identify and address the urgent needs of emergency responders, the next terrorist incident could be even more devastating than 9/11."

Our state of government is corrupt. Politicians are being bribed left and right in order to allow the big-media to consolidate even more, in order to pass DMCA type legislation, and in order to pass acts such as the PATRIOT Act, which should have been named the Big Brother Act. They are even creating Orwellian agencies such as the Total Information Awareness program (renamed to the Terrorism Information Awareness system, in hopes that this would help them fool the public on its purposes).

This is a farce. We need a new leader who will restore American values to this country. I personally think Howard Dean is our best chance at restoring this country to what it was (a good example of what he stands for is in his speech titled "The Great American Restoration", but in all honestly, almost anyone would be preferable to the anti-American Bush cabal.

The trends in the government toward an Orwellian society sinerely worry me. Ashcroft and Bush have exploited 9/11 in order to pass many new laws that curb the openness of American society. They do all this under the guise of "national security" -- and yet we are not any more secure -- the non-partisan Council of Foreign Relations recently put out a report, saying that "Nearly two years after 9/11, the United States is drastically underfunding local emergency responders and remains dangerously unprepared to handle a catastrophic attack on American soil, particularly one involving chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear, or high-impact conventional weapons. If the nation does not take immediate steps to better identify and address the urgent needs of emergency responders, the next terrorist incident could be even more devastating than 9/11."

Our state of government is corrupt. Politicians are being bribed left and right in order to allow the big-media to consolidate even more, in order to pass DMCA type legislation, and in order to pass acts such as the PATRIOT Act, which should have been named the Big Brother Act. They are even creating Orwellian agencies such as the Total Information Awareness program (renamed to the Terrorism Information Awareness system, in hopes that this would help them fool the public on its purposes).

This is a farce. We need a new leader who will restore American values to this country. I personally think Howard Dean is our best chance at restoring this country to what it was (a good example of what he stands for is in his speech titled "The Great American Restoration", but in all honestly, almost anyone would be preferable to the anti-American Bush cabal.

Under the U.S. form of government, we are getting decade-record levels of unemployment and crime, but at least the rich are a little richer, if you don't coun't externalities like the crime rate and overall property values.

Just don't count on all those nearly three million newly-unemployed people to vote on election day. I wouldn't put it past Bush to do something "exciting" right before election day. After all, you have a guy who claimed that he didn't tell anyone about his drunk driving conviction because he was trying to protect his daughters, but he doesn't ask the Secret Service to lift a finger to keep them from being caught drinking underage. He simply can not be trusted. How many times did he leave the "have you ever been convicted" question blank on Texas election forms? However, there is still hope.

I'm aware of two economic methods of generating H2. The least economic is from cracking water using electricity (the topic of this article). The most economic is by cracking natural gas - this is the method used by everybody I know of in the chemical industry.

Consumption of fossil fuels is very rapidly becomming uneconomic. Not only do they pollute, but we have already used more than half our petroleum. Perhaps you have noticed the oil wars that used to be impending?

Proton exchange membrane hydrogen electrolysis systems are about 50% efficient. The most heavily subsidized and poorly-insured nuclear power runs about US$0.12 per kilowatt hour, whereas wind power is already under $0.03/kwh. Therefore, wind-based electrolyzed hydrogen already costs less than nuclear-based hydrogen.

Plus, the new wind turbine models can power the entire U.S. in only 14,000 acres.

I need to check Howard Dean's web site to make sure he knows all this. As if it wasn't inevitable anyway.

Nobody said the hydrogen was free!

True, yet, proton exchange membrane hydrogen electrolysis systems are about 50% efficient.

The most heavily subsidized and poorly-insured nuclear power runs about US$0.12 per kilowatt hour, whereas wind power is already under $0.03/kwh. Therefore, wind-based electrolyzed hydrogen already costs less than nuclear-based hydrogen.

I need to check Howard Dean's web site to make sure he knows all this. As if it wasn't inevitable anyway.

Plus, the new wind turbine models can power the entire U.S. in only 14,000 acres. If trends continue, by this time next year, wind will be approaching two cents/kwh, placing it firmly under European coal, and in two years it will be on parity with dirty U.S. coal, which is presently running around 1.5 cents.

I need to check Howard Dean's web site to make sure he knows all this.

... do you know Caffeine is more poisonous than Plutonium?

No, I do not know anything of the sort. Please post a citation to the LD50 (the dose at which there is a 50% probability of causal fatality per kilogram of body weight) for each. I think you will find that caffeine does not accumulate in the bones as heavy metals do, and it does not emit leukemia-causing radiation once it is there.

Being against nuclear power of any form whatsoever is blindingly dumb

To the extent that most people prefer their nuclear power at least eight light-seconds away, that is true.

However, I think you will find that the most heavily subsidized and poorly-insured nuclear power runs about US$0.12 per kilowatt hour, whereas wind power is already under US$0.03/kwh. Plus, the new wind turbine models can power the entire U.S. in only 14,000 acres. If trends continue, by this time next year, wind will be approaching two cents/kwh, placing it firmly under European coal, and in two years it will be on parity with dirty U.S. coal, which is presently running around 1.5 cents.

You wanted to know what the left thinks. I need to check Howard Dean's web site to make sure he knows all this.

I'm hoping for Howard Dean myself. And really, I'm getting more and more desperate for this guy as time goes on. He's not my ideal candidate, but he's at least liberal, which puts him a good lap ahead of everybody else. If we end up with Leiberman v. Bush, I'll hate myself no matter who I vote for.

He'd probably win Compared to the stiffs the the Dems will be running.

Though I have mod points, and am mostly agree with your post, I am obliged to point out that Howard Dean is not quite stiff. Unkown yes, possibly liberal ; but stiff no. In the past 10 years since he became governor, my home state of VT has added a 100 million dollar surplus, health care for all children as well as licensed civil unions (gay marriage by any other name).

It is also worth noting that his forst term began not with an election, but with the death of governor Snelling, when Dean was Lieutenant Governor.

And as I'm sure is quite obvious from Seanator Jeffords defection from the Republican party two years ago, Vermonters don't care too much for W.