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or you could just buy one from Mike in Texas... http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx /desktops?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsddesktops http://www.dell.com/content/products/category.aspx /notebooks?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsdnotebooks

I think you are buying far too much into the negative hype around Vista. The only way you'll be having problems with your Vista laptop is if you plan on buying a bargan basement no frills machine that has minimal hardware specs.

DELL hasn't?

(it may be a bitch to setup, but once it's working and configured, it's golden)

You're going to have to make a more coherent argument than a simple google search, especially one where the first hit actually explains how MacOSX is POSIX complient and based on FreeBSD and NeXTStep, both of which are bonified unicies. So unless your argument is "If it looks like a duck and quacks like duck, it must be rock," then try again.

My hardware is supported.

I've never seen hardware 100% supported under linux.

Wireless drivers that don't support WPA

Graphics cards that don't support 3d acceleration.

Kernels having to be patched for usb support.

Hell, I had to actually patch (i.e. modify the source) to get linux to recognize my digital camera (a Sony DSC-F707)

even though it was supported as a simple usb storage device.

(The patch was incrementing a hex number in unusualdevs.h. Simple yes, but completely unacceptable.) Modules that refuse to insert automatically.

Every time some issue like this comes up, someone writes about how they wish Dell sold naked PC's. They have -- for years. Dell's naked PC's are called the n-Series desktops. They're listed as "open source desktops" on the Dell website. They only contain a minimal FreeDOS installation for legal reasons, which is meant to be wiped clean by your favorite OS installer. And from what I've seen, they're the same price or less than the Windows models.

I've had pretty decent experiences with XMMS2 for playing music from my library and MusicBrainz Picard for organizing it.

One of my requirements is the ability to add an SMB share directly to the media player's library, as my entire music collection is stored on a media server (Maxtor MSS Plus) and accessible via an SMB share. Amarok is unable to add an SMB share directly to its Collection, and requiring root access to mount an SMB share is just stupid, IMHO. Rhythmbox is capable of using GNOME's solution to the problem, the "Network Places" shortcuts, which are GNOME-specific connnection configuration settings saved in GConf and represented as "shortcuts" on the desktop and within Nautilus (and applications that use Nautilus in them). However, as we're all aware, Rhythmbox totally blows chunks.

XMMS2 even runs efficiently on low-end hardware. I turned an old Dell OptiPlex GXM 5166 I dug out of storage (specs, picture) into a headless XMMS2 box. I control it using TurboX2, which is also installed on the old OptiPlex. Playback is perfect, even with a 166 MHz!! clock speed.

I have a little over a month's worth of MP3, Ogg Vorbis, FLAC, and MOD tracks in my music library right now, and I'm adding more on an almost weekly basis (I <3 Used CDs).

Windows gets installed mostly by OEMs (and overwhelmingly so outside industry).

Given that Dell now ship machines with a variety of Linux distros preinstalled (http://www.dell.com/linux) I don't think installation from scratch is a major factor in ease of use anymore.

Unfortunately I can't read the specs because they use javascript to switch the tabs. Copying the URL yields this html served as text/plain. How hard does it have to be for users who choose not to enable scripting to get a list of tech specs?

Another AJAX success - Pffft!

Soon? Uh, how about "all this time"? http://www.dell.com/nseries ? I think dell is just laughing their asses off at the rabid zealots who can't even look at dell's website.

Dell has sold systems practically the same as this for years, as other Slashdotters have noted in previous related stories. The "N" series of desktops comes with only FreeDOS on it, and they're very affordable. FreeDOS is installed as a tiny, minimalist operating system for legal purposes, and it's put on with the full expectation that it will be wiped out by your OS installer of choice.

Dell's Open Source Desktops

Um... Dell does offer some bare hardware.

Dell 'Open-Source' Laptops Well, the laptops do come with FreeDOS installed but I have a hard time believing that there are a lot of people out there running FreeDOS by itself. Personally, I consider these to be OS-less.

Servers also come without an OS. I know that the SC430s have PCIe slots and I THINK that you could pop a video card in there for a good workstation if you wanted (but I haven't done that as I am using it as a server).

I thought they offered desktops, too but I'm not finding the link. They do offer RHEL on workstations, though

Granted, they may not great options but they do exist. What I want to know is why it would cost more for me to buy a Latitude D420 with FreeDOS than it does to buy one with Windows preinstalled. I understand that Dell gets kickbacks for installing other vendor's software, but I don't understand how the kickbacks they receive create more money per computer sold than a licence for Windows.

Um... Dell does offer some bare hardware.

Dell 'Open-Source' Laptops Well, the laptops do come with FreeDOS installed but I have a hard time believing that there are a lot of people out there running FreeDOS by itself. Personally, I consider these to be OS-less.

Servers also come without an OS. I know that the SC430s have PCIe slots and I THINK that you could pop a video card in there for a good workstation if you wanted (but I haven't done that as I am using it as a server).

I thought they offered desktops, too but I'm not finding the link. They do offer RHEL on workstations, though

Granted, they may not great options but they do exist. What I want to know is why it would cost more for me to buy a Latitude D420 with FreeDOS than it does to buy one with Windows preinstalled. I understand that Dell gets kickbacks for installing other vendor's software, but I don't understand how the kickbacks they receive create more money per computer sold than a licence for Windows.

Um... Dell does offer some bare hardware.

Dell 'Open-Source' Laptops Well, the laptops do come with FreeDOS installed but I have a hard time believing that there are a lot of people out there running FreeDOS by itself. Personally, I consider these to be OS-less.

Servers also come without an OS. I know that the SC430s have PCIe slots and I THINK that you could pop a video card in there for a good workstation if you wanted (but I haven't done that as I am using it as a server).

I thought they offered desktops, too but I'm not finding the link. They do offer RHEL on workstations, though

Granted, they may not great options but they do exist. What I want to know is why it would cost more for me to buy a Latitude D420 with FreeDOS than it does to buy one with Windows preinstalled. I understand that Dell gets kickbacks for installing other vendor's software, but I don't understand how the kickbacks they receive create more money per computer sold than a licence for Windows.

Actually, not only do they allow RH, they actually sell it and SUSE on their server lines.

See http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=becwlk1&s=bsd for example... it comes with no OS, but you can choose from a list of operating systems. They have a series of "Open Source Desktops" that come with FreeDOS (to appease their "you must ship an OS!" agreement with Microsoft no doubt) on a CD, but not installed. I bought one of those a year or so ago and am happy with it.

This is US Dell, though. Apparently the UK branch has not been as willing to loosen the Microsoft noose, but Dell.com has been very good.

(Though, to be honest, I would still buy my servers from ASL, but they have been -so- good to me over the years, I would have a hard time breaking that connection... But certainly Dell is trying and for companies that like the Dell name, that can help speed purchases.)

Bull. If you have a valid hardware warranty and can provide Dell with a hardware failure code from diagnostics or a reasonable description of the issue (i.e. my computer will not power on, etc., your hardware will be warranted.

If you do not have a diagnostics disc, ask that one be sent to you.

True enough, some representatives may read from a script and try to get you to try things in windows, but you can always call back or speak to a supervisor.

If you are unable to get your issue resolved, write down the ticket/reference number and go here for unresolved issues:

https://support.dell.com/support/topics/global.asp x/support/dellcare/en/outstanding_issues?c=us&l=en &s=gen

Caveat: I work for Dell.

Dell has an "Open Source Desktops" page under their desktops menu.

dell open source desktops:
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/e 510_nseries?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&~ck=mn

Or, if you don't want Windows, buy an N-series desktop or laptop. People keep complaining that you can't buy a naked PC from Dell, but there it is.

Now, whether it's much cheaper (or even cheaper at all) to buy a naked PC than the same PC with Windows is a different issue. I've heard plenty of speculation that, with the discounts Microsoft gives Dell and the money crapware vendors pay Dell to install their stuff, installing Windows on a machine costs Dell pretty close to nothing. I don't really know. I bought an N-series desktop a while back and only saved about $40, but I would have done it on principle even if it didn't save me a single dollar. I wouldn't use Windows on that machine even if it were free, and I'd like Dell to know that some of us simply don't want Windows.

yes, but your optiplex also requires a monitor and monitor power cord, which you fail to mention. (as is the case when a case of sour grapes hits, it's not my fault you got a POS Dell.)
And macs have excellent webcams built in, with all the necessary software needed to run them.
And like the other poster mentioned, with built - in wireless, an iMac can be down to a keyboard and power. You're looking at, ether, power, mouse, keyboard, monitor, monitor power, usb 2.0 webcam. 2 vs 7 cords.
Granted you could have one of those franken-"all-in-one" optiplexes, which would reduce the number of cords.
Curiously, if you go to dell's website http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetail s.aspx/optix_gx620?c=us&cs=RC956904&l=en&s=hied
  notice what background they have on that monitor. (hint, it's not one that comes with windows.)

1. Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 Processor - $970.00
2. 2 x EVGA GeForce 8800GTX KO Video Cards in SLI - $1,299.98
3. EVGA 680i Motherboard - $249.99
4. 4 GB Corsair Dominator (PC2 9136) Memory - $878.00
5. Sound Blaster X-Fi Elite - $259.99
6. 4 x Western Digital 10,000 RPM Raptor Hard Drives (RAID 0) - $919.96
7. 4 x Seagate Barracuda ES 750GB Hard Drives (RAID 1) - $1,519.96
8. Koolance PC4-1036BK - $618.95
9. 2 x Dell Ultrasharp 3007WFP Monitors - $3,398.00
10. Lian-Li F1A Computer Desk - $2,895.00
11. Das Keyboard - $89.95
12. Logitech MX Revolution Mouse - $89.99

Here you go: http://www.dell.com/nseries

Have a look at this link, to one of the n series PCs:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=19&kc=6V440&l=en&oc=DDCWAN3&s=dhs

It's on the right side of the page, just search for "FreeDOS".

Well looking at this
"The open-source n Series desktops feature select popular models from the DimensionTM desktop, OptiPlexTM desktop and Dell PrecisionTM workstation lines available with a copy of the FreeDOSTM open-source operating system included in the box, ready to install."

and then looking at this link

http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

I'd say you need to look around more. It might cost more but a naked PC isn't imposible to get.

I was incredulous when I read the GP's highly-moderated comment. I assumed any business buyer would know that Dell's "real" business desktops (Optiplex) feature "standard, stable technologies and long product life cycles". Although the GP wasn't specific, it appears that he/she either bought Dimensions (likely), is talking rubbish (less likely, but possible), or bought Optiplexes (unlikely).

It does bother me a bit that Dell sells Dimensions in their Small Business section, but I guess some businesses want the option of buying cheap consumer models. However, the brief descriptions of the Dimension and Optiplex lines on the Small Business Desktops page should make it obvious that Optiplex is the right model for long product life cycles.

I was incredulous when I read the GP's highly-moderated comment. I assumed any business buyer would know that Dell's "real" business desktops (Optiplex) feature "standard, stable technologies and long product life cycles". Although the GP wasn't specific, it appears that he/she either bought Dimensions (likely), is talking rubbish (less likely, but possible), or bought Optiplexes (unlikely).

It does bother me a bit that Dell sells Dimensions in their Small Business section, but I guess some businesses want the option of buying cheap consumer models. However, the brief descriptions of the Dimension and Optiplex lines on the Small Business Desktops page should make it obvious that Optiplex is the right model for long product life cycles.

Dell does sell naked computers, at least this one is really close.

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx ?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=bdcwcbn&s=bsd

We can and have purchased systems from Dell and HP without Windows. We purchase Precision n-series workstations from Dell, which always come with Linux, and XW9000 series workstations from HP. Both arrive with RHEL Linux WS4 when we buy them. Here are a few links:

http://premier.dell.com/portal/catalog/SeriesPage. aspx?categoryid=precn&sysCat=Workstations&pid=6_B_ precn_2147483647&cs=RC956934
http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/us/en/sm/WF04a/1245 4-12454-296719-307907-296721.html

As for the non-Precision n Series, FreeDOS isn't there for troubleshooting as such. Dell's diagnostic CDs remove the need for an OS when troubleshooting basic hardware issues. It's simply a token OS bundle to avoid the "naked" PC campaign run by a certain OS vendor, and doesn't require significant support on Dell's end. The result little different from a "naked" PC for an end user, unless they truly wanted a DOS box.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/e 510_nseries?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs
Yep N series PC's are about as good as you will get.
Not the greatest or all that customizable, but is a decent box.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/segtopic.aspx/e 510_nseries?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs

They didn't look very hard I found a link in the first google hit to this searching for dell PC no operating system. Can I get a job writing poorly researched articles for ZDNet?

http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&redirect=1 http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries_nb?s=bsd Precision workstations available in UK with RHEL4 WS. http://premierconfigure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/co nfig.aspx?cs=RC1050265&customer_id=RC1050265&oc=W3 90LX1&~tgt=global_cfg&c=UK&l=en&s=PAD

http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&redirect=1 http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries_nb?s=bsd Precision workstations available in UK with RHEL4 WS. http://premierconfigure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/co nfig.aspx?cs=RC1050265&customer_id=RC1050265&oc=W3 90LX1&~tgt=global_cfg&c=UK&l=en&s=PAD

http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&redirect=1 http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries_nb?s=bsd Precision workstations available in UK with RHEL4 WS. http://premierconfigure.euro.dell.com/dellstore/co nfig.aspx?cs=RC1050265&customer_id=RC1050265&oc=W3 90LX1&~tgt=global_cfg&c=UK&l=en&s=PAD

You can already buy a Dell without Windows, though. Go to http://linux.dell.com/ and look for their n-Series desktops and notebooks. It comes with FreeDOS, with the expectation that you'll probably install something else of your own choosing. I bought one and had no trouble throwing Debian on it (as long as I used the 2.6 kernel).

Now, at the time I bought it, for the price I paid, I only saved about $30 from what it would cost to get the same hardware with Windows XP Home, but I don't think Dell spends much for the Windows licenses anyway.

Dell DOES offer a Naked box.. and has been doing so for quite a while..

Dell refers to them as the 'n' Series
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&redirect=1

Or for all available options http://www.dell.com/linux

Dell DOES offer a Naked box.. and has been doing so for quite a while..

Dell refers to them as the 'n' Series
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx /nseries?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&redirect=1

Or for all available options http://www.dell.com/linux

On the other hand, Dell appears to *want* our feedback:
http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/cor p/linux?s=corp

I did a Pangolin, Core 2 T5600, 2 gigs ram, Intel GMA 950, 100 gig drive, dvd burner, 6 cell battery came to $1395 US, plus $60 to $70 shipping, plus possible duties and border fees. Somewhere around $1900 CDN after exchange and taxes.

A couple of weeks ago I purchased a Dell 6400, Core 2 T5600, 2 gigs ram, GeForce Go 7300 GS, 160 gig drive, dvd burner, 9 cell battery, Complete Care for $1468.32 CDN delivered, including shipping and after all taxes.

I haven't compared the US E1505, which is the same model as the 6400.

found it at on the blog here http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/03/13/ 7985.aspx and a link to the poll http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/cor p/linux?s=corp but it is the standard " what do you use the box for " poll.

Wait, what?

The page you requested may no longer exist on Dell.com

        * There may be a misspelling in the URL you have entered
        * The page or file you are looking for has been moved, retired or is no longer available

Go here to see the survey http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/cor p/linux/

I foun the survey here: http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/cor p/linux/

Dear Steve,

Thanks for telling me all about your home computer setup. I'm really impressed that you have so many PCs. And your tv's and stereo systems? I'm fair quivering with excitement!

Just one question... In what way does all of this address my point that everybody who keeps saying "Dell should offer Linux," turns around and in the next breath also claims, "Nobody who can put Linux on themselves would bother with a Dell system, anyway, though"?

Oh, and if you want a Linux system from Dell? Various Dell n-Series systems are available preinstalled & quite configurable with Red Hat. Or, you can choose the FreeDOS version, which comes pretty much a blank slate, and you can install and twiddle bits to your heart's content. Or, you can even take advantage of all the crap & spyware that gets installed by default, and take the Windows system that has had its price reduced by all that crapware, and then just build a linux system right over it.

Please don't expound any further on Operating System related matters. You clearly have no clue what you're talking about.

Dell PrecisionTM open-source n Series1 workstations deliver maximum workstation performance. Smart for businesses with proprietary software images or special Linux needs, these systems are available with factory installed Linux.

But there are no companies that are selling support to a Linux distro on Dells.

The open-source n Series desktops feature select popular models from the Dimension(TM) desktop, OptiPlex(TM) desktop and Dell Precision(TM) workstation lines available with a copy of the FreeDOS(TM) open-source operating system included in the box, ready to install. It is not a Microsoft operating system and is not qualified for Windows licensing use under any existing Microsoft Volume Licensing Program (OPEN, Enterprise, etc.) Customers interested in a Microsoft® Windows® solution should purchase a Dell desktop pre-loaded with Windows XP Professional.

It matters because soon as a major PC manufacturer starts shipping machines without the Windows tax, we can finally get some real competition in the OS world (how ironic that if I want to try free Linux, I usually have to buy Windows - which comes with my PC - and I can't get a discount if I don't want Windows).

I'm curious as to why Dell just doesn't sell high quality high end machines with Linux on them.

Most linux distro's support med to high end equipment in machines.