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Linux Preinstalled Dell Available Soon
An anonymous reader writes "According to a BetaNews article,
Dell confirmed on Wednesday plans to offer Linux pre-installed on select desktop and notebook systems, beyond its current Linux-based servers and Precision workstations.
No specific time frame was given for the expanded Linux plans, although the company said in a blog posting that it will provide an update in the coming weeks regarding the effort. It will detail 'information on which systems we will offer, our testing and certification efforts, and the Linux distribution(s) that will be available,' Dell said, adding that, 'The countdown begins today.'"
Does this mean that Dell will have to stop selling Windows? Or that they'll go bankrupt? Or will their offices be burned down to the ground? What was the reason for this not happening before again?
I wonder if Shuttleworth is working his business skill magic to get Ubuntu on these machines.
Now just tell me it costs less than, or at least the same as, the same PC with Windows pre-installed.
Libertarian Leaning Political Discussion Forum.
I just hope Dell offers lots of distributions and gives the option of lots of different Linux support services. That's the great thing about Open Source.. there's an actual market for support services.. you're not stuck with the manufacturer. Dell could become the shop for desktop Linux.
How we know is more important than what we know.
If in fact "no specific time frame was given", then how the fuck can "the countdown begins today"? Counting down to an undetermined date is like counting up to inifinity. And I have a feeling Dell knows this. This way they can talk the talk without having to actually walk the walk and either lose money or anger Microsoft.
I want a new quote. One that won't spill. One that don't cost too much. Or come in a pill.
I know that most of the crowd around here will be thrilled.. But I do wonder how broad the market actually is for this.. Obviously Linux is growing, and depending on distro becoming more user friendly all the time... The server market is a given, but linux is already doing well there.. 100,000 responses != 100,000 sales.. I'm sure many of the responses were already fans and users.. But that might be counter-acted by people who would buy but didn't comment, or might not even be aware.
The lack of the MS tax will be great, but I have to wonder how many 'regular joes' and 'mom and pops' will try it out. We all know the stories about people setting up their parents with it, but that comes with an implied, and personal support system. And if their Linux Tech Support is anything like their Windows Support the help available may be less than stellar. I sure hope it catches on, even a little competition for MS is a good thing, and introducing people to OSS is fantastic. I also wonder if they'll have the models available at brick and mortar retailers, and if they'll actually push them.
I think the sales figures will be very interesting to watch, especially for non-enterprise customers. The figures I'd be especially interested in would be the people who were happy with their purchase, and the real numbers behind that might be impossible to come by..
My rantings, only longer and with better spelling..
If Linux comes preinstalled that means stick to to Microsoft by putting Linux on instead. Where's the fun in that?
...a commercial with a stoner penguin saying, "Dude, you're getting a Dell!".
After just crapping on everyone wanting Linux they are now offering exactly what? I could have sworn not more than about a day ago someone getting the short stick on their warranty because they installed Ubuntu. So where does this leave us, um the computer takes a crap because we didn't build it ourselves so we take out the hd and use the stupid system restore disk and then call complaining about it being a piece of crap? If they cant support what they sell dont buy from them. I have nothing against oem but short of fracking it up with a firmware/bios update I dont see how you can screw hardware up unless you overclock the crap out of it... most companies neither endorse or support doing that anyway and usually tell you it voids the crappy warranty anyhow. So why bother? I build my own computers I know what is supported and usually how far I can overclock if I wish. If RAM makers started saying using linux voids the warranty would you buy their products? Why are OEMs any different. Its like saying a using a $10,000 workstation with 2 nvidia quadro's voids the warranty because your not using the onboard video on the motherboard. I like things that just work, add a video card system boots, add a raid card ditto, replace the cpu and it doesnt thats just OEM, well at least what I've seen in the past few years hardware supports it but the bios doesn't because they don't profit. I want a HP, Dell, Gateway with a full tower case, 800watt PS, Hotswapable 400GBx6 in two Raid5 arrays with 4GB Ram, a core2duo E6600 with 2-GB/lan cards, and a UPS to match for a video editing workstation. I want linux or OSX, a system that I reboot every few months and If I have a hardware issue fix it that day. Is that too much to ask for? I still have a 1Ghz athlon with 1GB RAM for a fileserver that works fine running linux. Am I asking too much?
I've been playing with the late alpha (Herd5) Feisty and now beta and lemme tell you, saying it's got "potential" is an understatement. WiFi support is worlds better, hardware autodetection is improved and the new auto-installer for codecs as they're needed flat-out rocks.
As long as you're not doing RAID and you're cautious about 3D desktop stuff, Feisty Beta is really ready to now for semi-experienced Linux users and has strong potential as "The Chosen One" of distros. It should eat significant market share as people with older Win98 boxes are forced to upgrade to *something* due to lack of ongoing security support. And it'll tempt a lot of XP folk disgusted with malware issues.
This has to be Dell's top choice and it's due for production release late April '07.
Sigs are too short to say anything truly profound so read the above post instead.
They're actually waiting for the next version of the ever-so-popular you-know.... GNU/Linux distribution. Although Greedy Gorilla would be a nice moniker for Vista....
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
Hopefully the only Windows they will soon be installing at Dell headquarters are chair-proof windows.
...they'd start making laptops with cases that don't threaten to break every 5 minutes, I'd consider buying another one after my current one. But if they don't, I'm still going to seriously consider buying a Thinkpad.
I believe regular people will buy these and have no troubles using Linux. Dell will install links for Firefox, Open Office and Thunderbird. They will just need to plug in their broadband connection to either their router or computer and away they go. I'm somewhat concerned about dial-up users as I've found out finding a compatible Linux ISP can be a pain so I could not imagine what they would go through. In the end they will figure it out or ask someone how to do it for them just like they did for Windows.
Dell Australia (actually, malaysia or wherever they are outsourcing to) denied me my attempted return of my vista license. I had not accepted the EULA that comes up when you start the notebook for the first time.
I asked them to send me the EULA after they denied me on the phone (there was no comprehension of the issue), this is the response I received:
As per our conversation, we are unable to refund or exchange the Microsoft Windows Vista Operating System as the license is already tied to your computer, service tag #: BLAHBLAH
And any exchange or refund of the license would be in breach of licensing agreement.
Microsoft Vista is a good platform where technology is moving forwards and the markets are now gearing towards Microsoft Windows Vista.
Any advice or let it go? - how amusing is that final sentence!
So, Linux will be preinstalled on Dell computers?
Imagine a Beowulf cluster of those!
I, for one, welcome our new Dell overlords!
In Soviet Russia, Linux preinstalls you on a Dell computer!
1) Preinstall Linux on Dell computers.
2) ???
3) Profit!!!
"Talk is cheap. Show me Dell." --Linus Torvalds.
Now it's up to the linux users to actually buy those Dell systems they've been begging to come pre-installed with Linux for so long, to prove it wasn't just meaningless bitching and that they actually want Dells with Linux.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Seriously, why?
Maybe Computers will never be as intelligent as Humans.
For sure they won't ever become so stupid. [VR-1988]
Will the Dell be preinstalled with Novell Suse Linux? With the previous wheeling and dealing between Microsoft and Novell, that would seem to make the most sense (in a twisted way). The only other conventional alternative I can see is Red Hat. I doubt Dell would preinstall a Linux distribution that doesn't have strong corporate backing like Novell or Red Hat.
Cliche overload! My brain has been slashdotted...
"Hello, this is Linus Torvalds, and I pronounce Linux as Dell!"
For everyone who says that this is a ploy by Dell: What do they have to do exactly? I have heard nothing but doubt on Dell's sincerity since this whole thing started, and as far as I can tell, Dell has done every thing possible to do what was originally asked of it on IdeaStorm. It has also lived up to all of it's promises about going forward with Linux on their computers. So, give them a break. Just wait and see if they keep their promise or not before you start talking about how they are just doing it as some evil Microsoft plan to take over the world (or the rest of it anyway).
The creator of this post (Jacob Smith) hereby releases it, and all of his other posts, into the public domain.
Micro-Suse. Seriously, with all the BS that's gone down over the past few years and the new souls M$ purchased for the low low price of 30 pieces of silver, do you really think it will be anything else?
So I guess Dell is finally ready for the desktop.
I know that most of the crowd around here will be thrilled.. But I do wonder how broad the market actually is for this..
Can we please cut down on the "but I wonder" posts. Never mind what gets posted, there's always a bunch of folks there to "wonder" about the opposite happening, never mind what's the talk about. Just as some sorta hobby.
Why wonder, when you can wait and see? If Dell offers Linux computers, this is good. It can't possibly be bad, if nobody buys 'em Dell will stop offering them. Nothing more.
That's all I have to say about that
Forrest Gump
apple gives me a nice and expensive option to have all osx, windows and linux possible, but dell is going to offer a "blank" machine which is hopefully much cheaper.
Sure, mom&pop are not going to buy Linux (unless their geeky son says "mom and dad, buy this and i'll give you unlimited support" ;). But there are lots of potential buyers:
- IT departments
- Education sector
- Nerds of all ages and walks who prefer the console-for-gaming, computer-for-linux combo
If this turns out well, they could achieve the holy grail times two: Steal marketshare from their competitors AND gain credibility in the nerd brainshare.
Come on, does Dell look less or more cool after this?
Stop the brainwash
Dell: How can I help you today?
Me: I bought this computer with Linux on it from you guys, and now I am having problems with X.
Dell: RTFM, n00b!
Ronald said nothing. He flung himself from the room, flung himself upon his horse, and rode madly off in all directions.
Perhaps a PC could be given three prices, so the purchaser has a proper choice:
1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers
Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1. I expect that options 2 and 3 would be similar in cost, even if the Linux option included a DVD with the distribution, drivers, and a collection of FOSS packages. The trade-offs in pricing would be visible in a way that customers might understand, although the crapplet collection would probably be described as "bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages" to mask its negative value. People who truly want Windows might opt for the reduced-crap option, even if its price is higher (especially if they experienced the crapplet search & destroy obstacle course after an earlier purchase).
With luck, we will never see the fourth pricing option which lurks malevolently in the background:
4. Linux, with bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
The very first thing that needs to be done with a new system is a full format. That is to clean off all of the junk that is pre-installed, as well as setting appropriate settings during install. That includes systems pre-installed with either Windows or Linux. Places like Dell could save me time by not installing any OSes.
If they want some kind of advertising payoff they could make "advert" themes for Gnome/kde/Emerald, and if they still want the junkware. They could run it on Wine, or even modify the source code for apps to generate some kind of ad revenue. One of the major gripes would be antivirus vendors who prebundle their software, as they wouldn't have a use to be on Linux. As the clueless windows use will just pay up for a yearly subscription when he comes across the first virus intercepted by the virus scanner.
You ruined my search on the keyword 'Funny', you insensitive clod !
Don't you know it is now both immoral and criminal to think beyond the next quarterly report?
You ruined my SENSE of funny, you insensitive clod!
Dell has sold systems practically the same as this for years, as other Slashdotters have noted in previous related stories. The "N" series of desktops comes with only FreeDOS on it, and they're very affordable. FreeDOS is installed as a tiny, minimalist operating system for legal purposes, and it's put on with the full expectation that it will be wiped out by your OS installer of choice.
Dell's Open Source Desktops
Systemd: the PulseAudio of init systems
Personally, I do not care much if Dell ships laptops with Linux.
What would make me positively surprised is if any large computer manufacturer would provide hardware with a guaranteed open specifications. If I get it with or without OS is irrelevant.
Closed hardware and no specs makes me a dull boy.
You ruined Slashdot you insensitive clod !
dell doesnt play that game.
i have had a number of dells over the last couple of years, always with the next business day on site warranty ( yeah, costs a bit at first.. but worth it ).
i load linux up within minutes of cracking the box open, and for each of my last 2 laptops, when parts have failed, tech comes out, sees that a. the screen has a dead pixel, so replaced it, and b.) the main board died. dead. replaced it.
dont know what hp was thinking, but dell have a pretty good customer service thing going.
Dell: Hello, can we help you?
Me: Hi, I am having some problems installing Linux on my new Dell laptop. I need some information about the video card so I can set up X.
Dell: Ok, umm
Me: Yes?
Dell: Ok, umm
Me: Uh... Phonetics??
Dell: Yes Phonetics... you know Lima, Indigo, November...
Me: Mmm... Ok... I don't know phonetics but I'll try... Lima, Indigo, November..... wait... let me seee.... http://www.google.com/
Dell: Excellent Sir! Now please spell out your full name and address, the model name of your Dell computer, it's serial code, the Linux operating system version and your corporate credentials... Using phonetics of course.
Me: All of it?
Dell: Yes, all of it.
Me: Is that necessary?
Dell: Yes Sir. In order to avoid any confusion about the origin of support calls Dell management has decided that all identifying information has to be spelled out by the customer using phonetics.
Me: Arrrghh... Very well then... Juliet, October, Hotel, Ummm..... let me see.... November, Delta, October, Echo.... Ummm.... Oh, fuck this..... **Hangs up**
Dell: Ahhhh... Yet another Linux support call successfully handled.
Me: Hmmmm.... let me see: http://groups.google.com/ comp->linux....
I actually had a conversation like this with a support guy (from Network solutions IIRC, it was a couple of years ago).
Only to idiots, are orders laws.
-- Henning von Tresckow
will a preinstalled linux prevoid the warranty?
Lemon curry???
But will they advertise it? Maybe even put a noticeable ad on their home page? Not everybody who might be interested reads /. believe it or not. I believe that it will be doomed to fail because nobody will know about it, just like the Linux version of Pro/ENGINEER that will shortly disappear because of "slow adoption"
Death is life's great reward. R. Hoek
Soon? Uh, how about "all this time"? http://www.dell.com/nseries ? I think dell is just laughing their asses off at the rabid zealots who can't even look at dell's website.
5. Dualboot Windows and Linux. (Or with VMWare)
This isn't the first time Dell offered Linux. The last time they made a half-hearted effort then made a big show of saying no one wanted it. The Linux machines were almost impossible to find on their web site, didn't have any support options and they charged more for not putting Windows on the box. Some test.
So I'm wondering if this is an actual effort to offer Linux boxes or another PR stunt? I don't trust Dell any farther than I can pee into a hurricane. They speak with the stench of Redmond on their lips.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Unfortunately I can't read the specs because they use javascript to switch the tabs. Copying the URL yields this html served as text/plain. How hard does it have to be for users who choose not to enable scripting to get a list of tech specs?
Another AJAX success - Pffft!
Until Dell actually releases one of these so-called pre-installed Linux computers, it's all just hot air. Dell (or anyone) can huff and puff and take surveys until they're blue in the face, but that doesn't prove anything. People are getting so excited and worked up about something that doesn't exist and doesn't even have a time line for Christ's sake!
Those of us who are skeptical are waiting to see the proof, just like we were all waiting to see Novell's proof that never came. Posturing means nothing unless it's backed with action - real verifiable action, not more posturing.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Large companies have a very difficult time supporting more than one OS. It's about depth of staffing and skill. Of course if one assumes that Linux won't require as much support than I suppose there's an opening there. But if you imagine that Dell will preload any of your 20 favorite distros you are tripping. It will be SuSE and Red Hat. Period. And after some time they will eliminate one of them. Another year or two they'll discover that they're spending 20% as much as Windows to support 5% the customer base of Windows and then they will pull the plug on this.
Will 2007 be the year of the Linux Desktop??
Now I'm not trying to start a flame war here, nor am I saying that Dell are evil (every machine I've ever bought prebuilt, including this laptop are Dell and I'd recommend them to anyone), but I imagine it may have just a tiny bit to do with the what I see as adware that comes installed on the machines by default.
:P), I can't for the life of me remember what it's called. My laptop came with "AOL setup" slapped all over the desktop, and I dare say there are other "gifts" however innocent and non-privacy threating they are, just adverts for companies willing to spend millions getting an icon to their website slapped on every Dell machine shipped.
A Optiplex I recently booted up for the first time was splashed with Yahoo and that evil search bar thing in IE (no I don't use IE, I was just looking
Maybe I'm being unfair, I'm not dissing Dell for it at all. I've never had a Dell machine with software installed that's been harmful, but I've definantly had several that have had adverts to other companies that I'm guessing Dell make quite a bit in the back pocket from. Obviously shipping a OS-less machine stops Dell making money through that.
I think therefore I am... a Linux geek.
Perhaps a PC could be given three prices, so the purchaser has a proper choice:
1. Windows, without promotional crapplets
2. Windows, with promotional crapplets
3. Linux, with drivers
Clearly, options 2 and 3 would be lower cost than option 1
3) will cost at least as much as 1), and both will be more expensive than 2). The subsidized windows machine will cost the least due to the crapplets as well as economy of scale. The Linux machine will probably be more than the crapplet-free Windows machine because a) from what I've heard, selling a few machines without windows doesn't really save the OEM any money from MS, and b) again, the economy of scale with Windows.
So there needs to be a shift in thinking: asking for Linux on a Dell is *not* a way to get a computer from Dell cheaper than they already are. It's possibly a way to get a machine pre-installed with Linux, and probably more importantly to get a machine with components that are guaranteed to work with Linux.
Dell actually already do this one Windows with reduced crap in the UK at least.
However it actually costs more at present, 3UKP per item removed.
Still can't rid of Macaffee or Norton though.
"and the Linux distribution(s) that will be available"
Or did someone else add the (s) ?
boycott slashdot February 10th - 17th check out: altSlashdot.org
So are these without warranty? Or does warranty demand you keep the particular (read, WRONG) distribution on the laptop?
4. Linux, with bonus enhanced-value mega-cool selected premium packages
Isn't that what Linspire is?
I'm pretty sure we have....
Victory shall be mine!
woot
Dell: - I know Linux! Slashdotters: Show me... Cue bullet time laptop slinging and OS slapping....
In Descending Order, "average" users are learning the following:
1. Firefox
2. Open Office
3. Audacity
4. GIMP
Firefox seems to be the easiest. Unless he(she) is a web researcher, the web pages are all "no risk". "Let's download that Foxie thingie and see what happens".
Open Office is that small step down because it requires negotiating serious concepts like file types, proprietary export plugins, etc. I am promoting it because of the serious cost savings. However, This involves Documents, which can make "average business users" squirm.
I stumbled onto Audacity to do very basic audio editing of music. Slicing off 4 secs of bad noise, speed/pitch/tempo alterations, volume amplifying. Music is the rage, and I wouldn't be surprised if Audacity plays a part in the converting to/from WMP or iTunes.
I have never even had the desire to look at GIMP... because I have no use for it. But then "average user" has no need for Photoshop. If you took the Subset of Picture fans, some of them may have used GIMP.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
Don't knock it. If it gets us Linux drivers then its a step in the right direction.
Why buy HP/Dell/Gateway/Etc at all? My horrid experience with HP has scared me off of buying any of these pre-fab systems ever again. Now I have one custom built at my local computer-geeks store. Then I can choose what ever OS I want.
;)
Oh wait... we're trying to get it out to all the non-geeks. Oh yeah.
Unlikely that 2 would cost the same as 3. All those promotional craplets make up for the cost of Windows, so ultimately, Windows costs them less than nothing, as opposed to even a non-commercial Linux distribution, at a grand total of nothing, still costs them more than Windows.
--------
What I'm interested in seeing, personally, is weather or not the community will support Dell by buying these Linux pre-loaded Dells. This might sound stupid, but its not secret that there's a fairly noticible anti-Dell bias. And one has to ask oneself: Do the people who pushed Dell to preload Linux even intend to purchase Liux loaded Dells, or was all the fuss only for the sake of someone making Linux availible in such a way?
I'd hate to see this turn out for Dell, like Corel's Linux adventure turned out: So much presure to release their apps for Linux, so they finally did release both their top-of-the-line graphics suite, and WordPerfect suite, the former being free (as in beer), only to be completely shunned by the community, leading to Corel ultimately pulling out and abandoning Linux altogether.
So the moral of the story is, anyone who's been pushing Dell to offer Linux desktops owes it to both Dell and the community to put their money where their mouths are, as they say, and go buy Dell. Its a two way street. if the community wants vendors to support Linux, they're going to have to support the vendors.
Are we going to have a pay a Linux tax? Or more appropriately a non-windows tax because Dell will have to spend extra money on supporting Linux systems and users.
. . . if I have a problem with it is Dell Support going to tell me to reformat the hard drive and load Windows. . .?
What?
Just updated Ubuntu today, it installed a new kernel, I lost X and my Wifi connection.
Fortunately I could fix the problem, my mum wouldn't have been able to.
Also many of the apps I've tried (e.g. Gift, MonoDevelop) didn't work under ubuntu, and it doesn't come with decss/mp3 stuff installed out of the box and it's a pain to setup if you don't know what your doing.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
This whole Dell preinstalled Linux thing strikes me as a sham to get something out of Microsoft, like lower Windows license prices.
The best thing Dell could do for Linux is simply make sure its hardware works. Put some engineers in a "Linux lab." They would make sure that all Dell computers, or just select Dell models, work well with Linux. That would mean that these models would have supported wireless and multimedia buttons that work. They would have video cards with open source drivers. Dell's Linux Web page would be much improved over its current version. It would have detailed instructions on how to make sure that suspend to RAM works with Dell laptops. It would have detailed instructions on how to get a selected Dell remote control to work with MythTV. Dell engineers would make sure the hardware has drivers, writing patches for the kernel if needed (then upstream would gladly help maintain the new code.)
If Dell did all this, there would be no question on "what distro to support." EVERY distro would then support Dell! Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Red Hat, SUSE, etc. would all take the necessary steps to get the Dell models supported in their distro. After all, with the detailed Dell information on the Dell site, integrating support would be dead simple! There would then be strong community sentiment in favor of Dell. Dell would be the best hardware maker for Linux. Everybody wins.
Linux preinstalled is not all that important. The emphasis on preinstalled is the old, Windows/Mac way of thinking. If the kernel supports the hardware, then ANY distro will work with Dells! Installing any distro would take just a few clicks. Sure, some people will want preinstalled. For that, Dell could just have "Certified Linux Partners" that would preinstall whatever distro they want. Then the partner gets the support calls, not Dell. Dell would have lots of partners and sell computers, without getting end user support hassles. Again, everybody wins.
Dell must realize all this. Their IdeaStorm is nothing more than PR BS. If they really wanted to support Linux, they would just improve hardware support. Write some drivers. Post some instructions. Instead they're doing a big public song and dance. I predict they will wave this website at MS during price negotiations. MS will drop the price. Then that's all we'll hear of this preinstalled BS. But that won't preclude TRUE Linux support like I've outlined here, and hopefully that will be forthcoming.
Penny - plain text accounting
It's good for linux because the disk is already partitioned and set for dual boot, which might be the scariest installation steps for a newbie, and there is a linux distro (albeit small) already on the machine. Add a linux upgrade script for the uninitiated -- maybe one that just adds a distro to leave the "recovery linux" in place for future interactions with Dell -- and the computer can go to full blown linux whenever its user wants to.
I'm a noob myself so I don't know if the partitioning scheme is valid (one Windows, one Windows programs, one data, one linux, one linux swap, one recovery images and scripts -- six total), but personally I'd be interested in that configuration, and certainly would be if the incremental cost over Windows only were zero.
(but at least this means that Dell will sell some hardware that is known to have Linux driver support, so if this is the only way to get what I want then I'm happy.)
It seems we have missed the point... If Dell does offer Linux, seriously markets it, and people start buying a Linux installed machine we will inevitably see better hardware and software support. I would hope Dell works with 1 or 2 distros to make hardware compatibility better. If Dell starts selling machines with Ubuntu, or whatever, and Dell starts buying ABC video chipsets, and XYZ 802.11g cards then maybe this will put pressure on the hardware vendors to better support Linux. We need some UTube ads! I really hope this works out because the hardware issues has been a show stopper for me on several occasions. And of course, once the hardware people come, the next group of people to come over will be the software people, and you know what that means don't ya... Games! I don't ever think a Linux distro will dominate the desktop world as Windows does, but I think there is enough market share out there to steal from M$ and get a solid foothold so that both hardware and software vendors take notice.
I *might* of left a perl script running somewhere promoting Linux on some companies suggestions box.
But - but - will it run linux? Oh... nevermind!
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
What about Natalie Portman and the series of tubes?
Ooh, that would make a SWEET children's book title...
There is another article on the BBC website, confirming this and giving some more substance to read.
I know how you feel but I actually hope option #4 will exist if that's what it takes to make Linux cheaper than the Windows crapplet version. I think it may also be good in sparking more commercial interest in Linux. The more companies getting involved in making things for Linux, the better, IMO. Even if it's crap software, at least it will help create buzz that companies should start thinking about development for Linux. Option #3 of course *should* be cheaper than #2, since MS charged money for Windows. =P If it will be in reality remains to be seen. That would really hurt MS, along with if Dell actually allowed selection of Windows or Linux in the customization screens and not as a separate desktop/notebook model. If they do offer Linux as being cheaper and it's sitting right next to Windows, and OOo right next to MS Works or Office, ouch. That will hurt MS BIG time. If we see that happen, we will see a dramatic increase in Linux adoption, which will push much more heavily for Linux versions of upcoming games and other software, which will push right back with an increased demand for Linux, etc etc etc. In other words, would Dell offering Linux really finally get us over that last big hill?
Promote true freedom - support standards and interoperability.
Reduced crap? I bought an Asus laptop last week, with XP Pro, and there didn't seem to be a whole lot of crap on it. The only thing I had to remove was Norton Insecurity 2006. The recovery CD was not the best I have ever seen, tho... even for a recovery CD. (Really would prefer just the Windows CD and a disk with all my drivers.)
They say the first thing to go is your penis. Well, it's either that or your brain. I forget which...
How's Dell going to get around the legal issues of selling these machines here in the USA? As you all know, there's this little problem of having a legal DVD player (for movies) on Linux. I for one want to know that. Sure, they could just go with something like Linux Mint, which has all the stuff in it, but some of that is against US law.
Maybe they'll sell these in two versions: the USA's crapified version, and the rest of the world's functional version.
Regardless, there are some issues to resolve, and they need to do it.
While there is a large crowd that pirates photoshop, the GIMP really blows away anything that has come with windows. It really is a nice program once you get used to the interface. It handles all kinds of formats, and while there's alot more to it, it's great for touching up photos. One thing I have been meaning to try out is Avidemux for video editing. The fact that you can edit videos and share them online for free isn't something that everyone realizes they can do. Never mind the digital media fan who goes a step further and starts using Blender. I think pre-installing these kinds of things really does add value to a system, particularly to the large number of users who don't have a clue what they're doing. It would be nice if Dell set the home url for the browsers to a page that was following trends and gave a bit of a "Welcome to Web 2.0!". It would blow my mind more if they went ahead and preinstalled stumbleupon for firefox out of the box. There's a large amount of stuff for free that people would love, and just don't have a clue it's there for the taking. I can't understand why pc distributors aren't exploiting it to the fullest to add value and draw repeat business. My best guess is windows.
My thoughts exactly... are we going to put our money where our mouths have been.
What I'm afraid will happen is that Dell will settle on one or two distributions to provide as options, and then due to complaints about those choices they'll continue to get 80% of the flak they'd been getting all along about Linux in general.
Those with enough tech savvy to have strong opinions about the various Linux distributions are the most likely to build their own PCs and install their own OSs. Those who need a prebuilt PC and preinstalled OS will want something stable from the time they receive the PC from Dell, and they won't likely be monkeying with the OS much. I don't use Red Hat at home myself (Gentoo for me and Ubuntu for the kids), but having Red Hat preinstalled and Red Hat Support included seems to me an ideal fit for the non-geek Dell customer. Perhaps Ubuntu too, if Shuttleworth's crew is selling support contracts. In the end, the biggest point of the Linux OS choice has to be about supporting the non-tekky Dell home user.
If they do start selling RHEL and/or Ubuntu laptops and desktops, I'll certainly be looking to buy them for my family and extended family. These things need to be bought if we preinstalled Linux wishers want to see it happen and grow.
Let me introduce you to my very own DMCA-protected encryption key: BC 1B 64 4A 8D DE 49 E8 C3 7D CC EE 1A AD EE
Seems like I've seen it about a hundred times over the last several years. "Dell to finally sell Linux computers" has to be one of the most popular and long-lasting headlines on /. ever.
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I know plenty of people who are attracted to Dell because they're finally making solid machines, and because if you watch their homepage for awhile, you can occasionally find really nice sales. I like to build my own computer, but if I can get an equivalent Dell for half the price of the components, and not have to put it together myself and hope it works, I call it a win.
And I'm a Linux user.
But suppose I was an XP user. Right now, Linux can have better support for pre-Vista software via Wine -- Vista is actually broken enough that it depends on your software whether it's easier to go to Wine or to Vista. And, remember all those problems nVidia was having with Vista? I'm not sure if those are resolved yet, or what other problems there might be, but Linux support from nVidia has been rock solid -- and thus, actually better than Vista right now.
So, oddly enough, I would recommend Linux over Vista for gaming, although you're really better off with XP. I fully expect this to change, though -- Vista SP1 will probably fix every problem I've described here.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Just write to the court and them (alternatively if you think they'll fold quick enough, tell them you'll file first).
They'll fold, especially in Australia: your consumer protection is pretty good.
They have two hurdles to bypass:
1) Not having agreed to a license and never having SEEN the licens, how can you be BOUND by the license?
2) The EULA says that you deserve a refund. Although you need to read the EULA to find that, it still binds.
They are caught in a double bind with #2: either they consider themselves a third party and not bound by it (in which case you are not a party with MS so you don't have to be bound by its conditions either: installfest!!!) or they are an agent of Microsoft for the transaction with you (so you do have contact with MS) but then they are responsible for responding as MS would have to and refund.
No successful Linux machine will sell outside of businesses if it doesn't come with support for media playback out of the box. That means licensing all the proprietary formats and codecs in advance. I can't imagine a model where you would buy a laptop with, say, plain-vanilla Fedora or Ubuntu on it, and the manufacturer points you to some server outside the US ("wink, wink") to download what you need to watch a DVD. The DMCA and similar US laws would make this a dicey proposition legally, and not one any successful company's attorneys could possibly endorse.
On the hardware side, things are much brighter since Intel opened its video and wifi hardware. My latest Inspiron has Intel graphics, and I specifically requested an Intel 3945 wireless card for another $20 or so. It shouldn't be hard for Dell to develop a customized version of some distro that supports these devices flawlessly out-of-the-box. If they choose to go with nVidia or ATI upgrades as well, they'll just ship the proprietary drivers pre-installed. It really doesn't bother me to see the large nVidia logo appear on my screen briefly at boot.
If you don't want to have a computer with proprietary parts, you won't want to buy a pre-installed Linux Dell. Most people, even most Linux users, probably won't care and just want something that works. I don't necessarily expect to see them priced much below an equivalent Windows machine, either, for reasons already discussed here (support costs, lack of subsidized pre-installs, etc.). My time is worth a lot more to me than a few dollars one way or the other. Installing Fedora on that Inspiron for my daughter took at least an hour or two. I'd gladly pay Dell $50 or so to have them do it and guarantee it will work properly when I first turn it on.
Finally, everyone here seems to think we'll be seeing Linux-only machines. I wouldn't be surprised to see dual-boot machines made available at the start, with Vista as the default OS. This would help satisfy Microsoft and let Dell continue to place those revenue-generating items on your Vista desktop and in your task bar.
It's been said before -- basically, a lot of the crapware is stuff that Dell is paid to preload onto Windows, and more than pays for the cost of the OS itself. Awhile ago, MS made some noise about hating this stuff, which may be part of why Dell is doing Linux at all -- but the fact remains, it may end up costing them more to do a completely free OS than to do one preloaded to the gills with crapware.
The good news is, at least, if they do it right, they'll give you a debian-based distro preloaded with all their crap, and someone will be able to easily write a script to switch it over to an Ubuntu desktop -- or even some combination, a third repository which provides a virtual package (dellbuntu-desktop) which depends mostly on ubuntu-desktop, but also on the useful or at least innocuous preinstalled Dell stuff (a Dell logo, a Dell support app) while automatically nuking the stuff that isn't needed.
Such an approach, along with significant configuration on their website (you used to be able to choose between FAT and NTFS, so one would hope you could choose between out-of-the-box supported Ubuntu filesystems and partition layouts) would keep me from reformatting the machine as soon as I got it. It would make it possible for us to clean crapware off our machines pretty much automatically, in far less time than a reinstall -- whereas it may not even be POSSIBLE on Windows without a reinstall. It would allow Dell-specific tools to be available, which could be pretty useful -- including support. And, at the same time, even if they bundled such a package (which strips out crapware), making it really easy to disable once your system is setup, you still have to boot with the crapware once, so that's still quite a bit of impressions considering Joe User won't remove them, and even I will at least see them -- so Dell could probably still make money off the crapware, without having to actually crap up our machines.
I realize I'm dreaming, though. But maybe I should submit this idea to Dell, to make sure it isn't lost?
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
'This whole Dell preinstalled Linux thing strikes me as a sham to get something out of Microsoft, like lower Windows license prices'
Like how, if they sell less Windows per line they get penalised. The push is coming from the end users who want a pre-installed Linux box. And if it is a sham then why did MS push to derail the last two Dell Linux efforts.
'Linux preinstalled is not all that important. The emphasis on preinstalled is the old, Windows/Mac way of thinking'
Linux preinstalled and in the shops is the best thing that could ever happen. Once the average user can buy Linux preinstalled then the userbase will take off. I mean how many people actually install Windows from scratch.
I call BS (Score:5, Insightful)
davecb5620@gmail.com
I just hope Dell offers lots of distributions and gives the option of lots of different Linux support services
Yes, that would be utopia, but it would shortly end their Linux business because of the extra service costs involved. I hope they just offer one or two distros, so their costs stays low and they make enough of a profit to keep them in the Linux business. I don't care which distros they offer. I only care that the hardware has certified kernel driver support. I'm guessing they will be offering RedHat and/or SuSe, which will satisfy 90% of the *need* (not preference, but need). If you know enough about Linux to want a specific distro beside what they offer or have a specialized need to require a specific distro beside what they offer, then you probably know enough to support it yourself (outside of the kernel-level hardware drivers). I'm a Debian fan myself, but I could live with RH. If I have a compelling need to use Debian, I can install and support it myself, as long as the hardware has proper gpl drivers.
So does that mean that Microsoft will no longer have a monopoly on "desktop OSes for intel-compatible CPUs"? (Given that Dell will ship Linux systems and OSX also is a desktop OS that uses intel CPUs.) The next time Microsoft's monopoly status is reviewed by the US courts (happens every year), will their monopoly status get revoked, so that their compliance oversight regulations are lifted?
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
Perhaps Ubuntu with a "trial" CNR service can make up (moneywise) for the lost revenue from the windows crapplets. No, I'm not advocating it, but that is the sort of thing they would pick as a business model. Kickback for every application installed. Even the "free" stuff can have a kickback. I can see it now, CNR install Realplayer with banner ads --- kickback to Dell. Install your lovely weatherbug client -- kickback to Dell. Purple gorillas on Gnome... never mind... you get the picture.
Dell was flirting with linux-supported releases almost 10 years ago. I know, 'cause in 1999 or 2000 I had my company buy one for me. I went through the website to pick it and everything. RedHat was the main distro then. Even came with Applixware for Office 'cause OpenOffice hadn't become the standard yet.
So really, this isn't news, 'cause they had it and they dropped it and now they're acting like they've never had it before and it's completely full of crap.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
I seriously doubt that Dell would offer Ubuntu as an option. No MP3 support out of the box? That would really kill off the casual adopter.
Random rants about technology: http://technorants.blogspot.com
Re-typed one last time, posting it on IdeaStorm:
This is, essentially, my wishlist for Linux on a Dell, but it goes a bit beyond that.
The configuration on the website should be powerful, but easy to use. I would suggest going from a one-dimensional to a two-dimensional interface, or maybe even a tree. Right now, ordering a Dell laptop means going step by step, each step being a page full of configuration.
I would suggest, instead, that you provide a single page of configuration options. Basic things, like "CPU", with a dropdown menu -- however, some things could be "All", "Typical", "Custom", "None". Everything should have the dollar amount it is costing right next to the item. A perfect candidate: Pre-loaded software. Total amount it's costing you right next to it. "All" makes your machine positively loaded -- Vista Ultimate, Ubuntu, BSD, Photoshop, MS Office, OpenOffice, etc etc... "None" means they won't do anything other than format the disk, and maybe install FreeDOS if they have to. "Typical" would probably be Vista Home Basic + MS Office, or vanilla Ubuntu if it was marketed as a Linux machine -- in other words, just the defaults, I-don't-want-to-look-at-it setting. "Custom" would expand that part of the page, or popup a new window, and allow you to configure the living hell out of it.
The rest of my post is based on the assumption that, given the above web interface, you won't reject a configuration option because it would confuse Grandma. Grandma can just click "Typical" for everything and be done. People who dig deeper should not be denied any functionality which can be easily achieved.
First thing: Partitioning. It should be possible to set up partitions, and configure which OS is the default to boot when installing multiple OSes. It should also be possible to specify partition type and filesystem to format, with a reasonable selection. I'm not asking for Reiser4 support or jffs2 support, or even cryptoloop support, just all the standard stuff -- XFS, JFS, ReiserFS, ext3, linux-swap, vfat, and so on. Keep in mind that even NTFS partitions can be created with fairly standard Linux tools, so for this stage, you do not have to code any of this yourself -- just the interface for me to choose my filesystem.
Operating Systems: I should be able to choose from a selection of images that Dell provides, to start with. Simplest way to implement this is with disk images. For example, a Windows image could be prepared on the smallest partition it can possibly be installed to. Then, it can be copied with ntfsclone and resized with ntfsresize to fit whatever amount of space I've allocated to Windows on that machine.
A similar procedure could be used for any OSes not natively supported by your install scripts. In fact, any OS or distro you don't want to support on your own could still make a few partition images available for you to download, and have it set up so that on first boot, the relevant partitions are expanded to the size they need to be. This could even be such that a user can visit the website of a third-party distro and configure a custom OS image, then paste the URL into the partition editor on the Dell website. This is not as wasteful as it sounds -- you do not have to actually download it until the user has made the purchase (at which point you have enough information to prosecute them if they've made you do something illegal), and you can charge them a small fee for the bandwidth used, and cache any single image that seems popular.
For distros you don't support, you could take a similar approach, but with a tarball instead. Unpack the tarball, chroot and run some predefined install script -- or make it possible to download the install script separately. This is more efficient and easier to customize than a partition image -- also more likely to work, as not all filesystems can be easily resized -- but not really portable beyond Linux.
For the "official" distro, here i
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
Red Hat's like Debian: old and crufty. If you want something up to date, Fedora or Ubuntu.
look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
My pessimistic side says they are probably putting linux on their backlog of machines not ready for the power hungry vista. My optimistic side says you still have to give them credit for actually supporting linux for real this time.
IIRC, one of the parts of the Novell-Microsoft deal was that MS had to buy and resell 70K SuSe licenses.
Coincidence? So who will Dell be buying those SuSe licenses from? Directly from Novell or a "third party reseller" (i.e MS)?
A move in the right direction but until they get rid of their ridiculous GBP60 "delivery charge" in the UK they still won't be getting any of my business.
Say Dell picks three or four systems total across their product line to do Linux - a couple desktops, a couple of laptops.
:).
There are all sorts of things they can do to "maximize the experience" or whatever
Hand-tuning the xorg.conf file for starters. I recently came across an xorg.conf for my oddball video card that doubled my frame rate in glxgears...admittedly not a perfect test but it's not half bad either. This after eight months of running this laptop on half a dozen distros. Why did it take that long for me to find this? Hellifiknow but that's reality for a lot of people.
Dell can tune things up to the max for a limited number of systems at least...not just video but WiFi, disk subsystems, etc.
And that's worth considering, isn't it?
So I don't use Linux..
..until I go home and install it tonight, anyway.. but not because I am unaware of it. I am well aware. I recommend it to ppl and I do know the environment, but up until now it was inconvenient for my purposes. (Then I got more ambitious and so Ubuntu must be installed!)
The unfortunate truth is that for a general purpose, and a commercial purpose is such, Windows-based is the way to go. What I think that Dell - and,so too, Sony - has been slow to realize, and has now reached there, is that variety can sell (as long as the variety is not confusing to the avg consumer *coughMScough*).
Variety does not simply sell because there is a larger customer base, but it also presents an image of willingness to work with the consumer. Was it not long ago that there wasn't an AMD product to be found? So I'm stuck with Nvidia, eh? They addressed these. Now I could have my choice of OS? Great!
The detraction from buying Dell systems for the slightly-more-than-avg to waaay-over is that much is forced upon us. We get pre-packaged crapware "included in the price" and standard installations that do not include choices like IE and FF. And so the lot of us end up building our own pcs. (Though I do it cause I think it's fun.)
But wouldn't it be nice to think that we could pick up a quality ready-to-go system? Dell doesn't have good things packaged in for the common, or any, user. Those are the guys who need the warranties and the home help, because they are intimidated by swapping parts out or reading forums for answers. Perhaps Joe Schmoe might like the feeling of security that their Lo-jack system for laptops brings.
Now, I am not currently in PC gamer mode so I cannot say with any confidence what kind of performance hit you'd taking Wine'ing games? seeing that developers are largely Windows-blindered.... (If someone would be kind and provide some info, it'd be nice.) But for those truly into games, playing every (intensive) game under the sun, is that truly realistic? Course I'd like some real word opinions on those games under Vista, as well, for a decent comparison. But I must agree that what problems exist for Vista, they will (attempt to) address with SP1- this is a reasonable expectation given the GFW initiative.
What I do have my eye on is how long before every mention of XP is gone from Dell's site. As of right now, it is not completely disappeared but it is quite deliberately severely understated. If they really have become this choice-loving organization, they'd keep that OS option there
"Moral indignation is just jealousy with a halo."
OK, that's...pretty damned tempting.
But, I would run into a problem: *I* might be able to support such a "personally modified distro", but what if I need to go do something else for a while? Do my users have support alternatives?
With a stock (or nearly so) Ubuntu install, they sure would. They could buy a support contract from Canonical, or pretty much any Linux geek can cope with Ubuntu.
Do I have a right to set up newbie users in a situation where they would have an unusually hard time if I wasn't available? I don't see that as ethical, y'know?
---
The other reason I don't trust Fedora as a newbie solution is, Fedora for newbies doesn't fit Red Hat's business model. Their commercial distro is what they're aiming for newbies. Fedora Core 6 right now is meant as a geek-centric permanent beta-test program for the commercial side. While it's clear Fedora 7 will be improved, I don't see any reason for Red Hat to try and turn it into a stable newbie-friendly setup in competition with what they *sell*.
And I can say exactly the same about OpenSuse and Freespire, for the same reasons.
With Ubuntu, it may be flawed but...I know the users I help convert are getting a free distro that DOES have a corporation behind it and has support contracts available if they need it. One that is clearly improving, and along lines that I respect: newer apps, a newer kernel, improved WiFi and much more.
That's what *I* see for my small batch of prospective users and I don't see Dell's choices being much different, 'cept for scale.
No, but hopefully they will advertise it as:
4. Linux, with full Office Suite, full Photo Viewer/Catalog and Editor, full Media Players and Editors, full Email and Calendering with Spam Filter, full Virus Scanner (even if you don't need it) with Free updates for life, free program upgrades for life, free security updates for life, etc.
They make them ooh and aah over the awesome 3D eye-candy that is Compiz/Beryl and you can sell it at the same price or even more than their standard Windows install. Linux doesn't have to be the cheaper option to get people interested.
Bottom line is, this experiment will sink or swim based solely on Dell's advertising commitment. If they run commercials talking about how Linux is "the new hotness" that is also more secure, easy to upgrade, and comes with lots of great software (you know, like the Mac commercials do), then sell them for the same price as a Wintel PC (you know, like Mac doesn't), you've got a winner on your hands.
http://www.mhall119.com
"average" users are learning the following: ...
... really? If so, the quality of the intro-level documentation must have radically improved since I last tried learning GIMP a few years ago.
4. GIMP
Hmmm
I had several versions on several machines, and a couple of different manuals. One of the first things that impressed me was that, as in earlier attempts, at least half of the examples in all the docs didn't work at all, no matter what version of GIMP I tried them with. Sometimes I got error messages, sometimes GIMP did something that wasn't recognizably like what was supposed to happen, sometimes nothing at all happened.
But my main overall impression after slogging through it was that I really hadn't learned much that was useful. Sure, I could use GIMP to make assorted changes to images, but they were almost never the changes I was trying to make, and I usually couldn't make any sense of the actual changes. I kept getting this image of driving a car in which I could turn the steering wheel and push the accelerator or brake pedals all I liked, and the car would change direction or speed, but the changes it did were uncorrellated with what I did to the controls. In effect, I could "garbage" pictures in lots of not very interesting ways, but I couldn't make intentional, controlled changes.
So if "average" users are learning to use it, what docs are they using? How would a novice user who knows nothing about GIMP go about learning to actually use it to twiddle images in a controlled fashion?
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
This reminds me of:
Limit as User --> 0 (Users learning GIMP).
I'm pretty sure at least ONE person out there has learned it. (Non-zero). I didn't say it had to be remotely popular. If all 4 programs had to appear in my list, well, I stuck it on the bottom for the reasons you describe.
Do we agree Audacity is easier?
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
I am pretty sure just heard on PBS radio, I believe it was the "Marketplace" program Friday that Dell had failed to release earning reports for the last 2 or 3 quarters. I also remember hearing in the last month or so the Michael Dell is returning to fill the CEO role in the company. All this reads to me like a company in trouble.
If they intend to ship a box ready for Joe sixpack or grandmaw the DMCA and libdecss issues, licensing of the necessary proprietary formats,codecs and such will be really big issues. Then there are the GPL issues with the distribution of proprietary binary drivers, codecs, but I am unsure of how big an issue this would be as I guess it could be handled via separate media or by online updates.
As for how this fits with Microsoft, I would suspect that Novell might very well be an easy thus early certified vendor with a MS sanctioned version of SLED. I run openSuse here because I like it and have always found Suse to be the cream of the Linux crop, but I hope that this is not going to be exclusive to only those Linux companies that have signed a nasty compact wit MS. But who knows, maybe Dell is really in bad fiducial shape and are desperate enough to consider using this in setting up a legal attack on the "sell Windows exclusively or lose your discount" tax Microsoft has managed to levy on all of us.
I really don't have a problem with people making a very good living writing software. But you know nearly every time I have been tempted into buying closed source packaged software I have come away feeling screwed over. Not because of what I paid, but for the piss poor product and support I got for the money, or like OS/2 where IBM chose to let it die a slow painful death. Since moving away from Windows and OS/2 an onto Linux my main satisfaction comes from things working well, the quality of support I get, and the comfort of not depending on a single company's vision or ethics, not the price - the inexpensive nature of FOSS to me is just another bonus.
I wish Micheal Dell the best in getting his company back on its feet. I believe that a major PC builder like Dell could very well be the ice in the crack that breaks the Microsoft monopoly in this market. I also believe that if the legal issues about things like the DMCA can be resolved that the average person will find a lot to like about Linux and FOSS in general. I suspect that the first and second movers that bring Linux to the masses could profit from it very well. And last but not least, if business leaders and politicians get the heads out of their collective arses and get the patent/legal issues dealt with, the rate of innovation possible in a more free and open marketplace would be astounding. Innovation into what is possible with a product is the best fuel for expansion of the products market. Current details and implementation of IP laws and excessive protection of monopolies, especially in software, media and telecom industires, have what is possible on a very short leash.
Wabi-Sabi
Matthew
Do we agree Audacity is easier?
No argument there. I use it a couple times a week.
But I keep hearing all the marvelous things about GIMP, and sometimes wonder if there's some way to learn to use it effectively. By "effectively", I don't mean doing random, uncontrolled damage to images. But so far, that's really all I've ever learned to do.
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
Several times over the past years I've seen announcements of DELL supporting Linux. Then it was mysteriously retracted after a day or a few. Hmmm. Anyways, Emperor Linux and others already sell DELL computers with Linux. IF, any good comp engr knows the hardware itself comes from Tiawan, China, etc and the chips are not designed by DELL (do they design any chips? at least HP does some). So, the system you buy from TigerDirect or NewEgg is basically the same. And everyone sells a warranty these days.
Best,
TimJowers, http://www.serviza.com/, We recommend Linux.
Expect Freedom.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire