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Is it cheap? No. But it's available: http://www.direcway.com/

Consider satellite (if it is your last option), such as DirecWay. Yes, latency is a problem for gaming, but for web surfing the speeds are getting much better.

This is only partly correct. You also have to consider bandwidth, by bulk capacity, i.e. the diameter of the pipe. While it does take light 250ms to make a round trip, how much data is throughput at once is what matters.

To further prove this, Hughes current Satellite based broadband solution (Direcway) offers service up to 500Kbps. That is alot faster than your calculations imply.

So how much data can light transmit... hmm well high capacity fiber lines can run up to 10 TBps ( see here). That is pretty fast... but distance is the real issue here.

Geo sync orbit is 38500 km, so you are correct there. But LEO is only 200-1200 km. A world wide system (like, say GPS) operates at LEO, but could be peer to peer as well. Simillarly the old satellite phone systems were LEO sats. LEO orbits are fast too, some as quick as 90 minutes or so.

Composite signals could push more data than a single signal. I.e. we can compress diffently get around how good old c affects us. This is how some of the high capacity fiber stuff works. Say if TCP/IP and the OSI model hold, you could bust up your packets, so delay is a packet based issue, or you could bulk transmit packets (build up 10, send them at once, use a TTL to process them in order on the other end).

The real point is that without knowing details about the protocols being used, transmission, end user hardware, etc, all of this talk means nothing. So it takes you 600ms to ping some server in Tanzania. You assume they would try to use 802.11b to send these signals? Uh... right. Pull the other one!

There [are] so many other ways to get broadband to even the most remote people that over the powerlines doesn't even need to be.

Yeah. Like satellite.

Why not funnel $100M into putting up a GoogleSat? At least we'd have cooler Google Maps and more conspiracy theories :)

Back in the dark ages I used to surf primarily with Links since even images at that speed are unbearable.

Satelite internet could be an alternative but that's only marginally better if you're expecting the responsiveness and throughput of DSL/Cable etc. Typical satellite instalations are latent anywhere between 800ms~1200ms. I've seen a couple under 600ms regularly but these were rare. Not to mention 500kbps is about as high as you can get with it.

Direcway have been at it for a while, Starband Provides similar service as well as automated trackers aimed towards mobile installations (RVs/Vans etc.)

The obligatory read the service contracts carefully applies to both.

Except that 800ms pings is unacceptable for gaming, and 100kbps happens so rarely it might as well not... oh yeah, I'm on teh satellite interNot.

Also, take a look at their handy Fair Access Policy -- don't let yourself get FAP'd... or your connection slows down to about 2kbps: http://fairaccess.direcway.com/

A better explanation of the FAP: http://www.copperhead.cc/fap.html -- don't try downloading any Linux CDs!

All this can be yours for only $100/month _with_ a 15 month contract!!

Call me stupid^H^H^H^H^H^Hdesperate.

Maybe by the time my contract is up in Sept, something decent will be in my area.

You could always get sattelite broadband, if you've got the money http://www.direcway.com/

I would do ALMOST ANYTHING for a high bandwith connection.

How about satellite?

I'm a Marine and am damn thankful for the things you and your Corpsmen do for us. Believe me, I wouldn't be humping around the country side with only a 9mm.

You are welcome to my DirecWay dish (parabolic.. about 2' x 3') and the RX/TX unit (a DW4000). See the dish. The dish weighs 80lbs approx. Aiming the dish is usually done by a professional installer with a special signal strength meter. Anyone have a good POC for getting one of those? Little yellow device IIRC.

I don't have the DW4020 (right model number?) which has the built-in router so a Windows machine would be required as the RX/TX unit is USB with no available OSS drivers. A headless mini-ITX machine would be perfect. It could do bandwidth control and NAT/DHCP as well. I've run this same setup (albeit stationary) without any trouble. Download speed is great but capped to 169Mb per four hours (see more detail. Upload is good enough for email and the all important pr0n.

As long as the motor pool would allow it, it could be mounted to the side of a hummer or 5 ton very easily. Setup/takedown would be minimal. It's bright white so motor T may need to donate some paint as well. Might be a bitch getting cami netting over it.

Can the rest of Slashdot see any problems or offer any other help?

If you're going to use Direcway, you should be aware of their Fair Access Policy ("FAP"). Basically, if your users download too much, the connection is throttled back to dial-up speeds for 8-12 hours. The definition of "too much" varies by the class of service that you buy, but the rule applies to all account types.

Even for satellite providers, you will need some sort of uplink like an ISDN or analog line

Sorry, this is wrong. Check out DirecWay for at least one provider for 2 way sat comms.

I looked into it since I love my satellite television!

Maybe I was missing something, but it sounded like the equipment startup cost was something in the range of $500-$600... with little to no subsidizing. Looking at their website now, they still have that ($599) at $59.99/mo with no activation fee. It also looks like they're offering a subsidized $99/mo with a $99 activation. So... $600-$99/$40 ~= 12.5 months to make it work buying the equipment up front. Looks like there's a 15 month contract even with the equipment purchased... odd.

So... satellite definitely has latency. Satellite definitely has problems with severe weather (but it has to be really severe). But if it's your only option, it does provide decent downstream speeds.

Have you considered wireless of some form or another? Commerical 802.11b gear with big antennas on either end should easily be able to do 5 miles if you have line of site. Another alternative is to bring a dedicated line (T1, etc.) out to you and become a Wireless ISP youself by coop splitting the bandwidth costs between your neighbors...

Hope that helps!

--Darren

Most of the rural US has no Internet service

Unless you include Direct TV's Direcwayservice which serves anywhere that has a good view of the southern sky.

According to the site, you don't even need a modem anymore (it can upload directly to the satellite. Still imagine that the latency is a bitch though.)

**I should add here that most of the "rural" US does have internet access. Parts of the "remote"
US (which is very different from rural) may not however.

Sattelite Internet service may also be an option, although possibly expensive.

Slightly off-topic, but a question about satellite internet...

Imagine you were in a not-so-rich country within, say, 1500 miles of the continental US, in which high speed internet access outside of the capital city is VERY expensive.

Among the few options available there is Hughes Direcway, except at about 15 times the going price in the USA.

Assuming the availability of expert personnel to mount the dish, is there anything stopping someone from subscribing in the USA and then bringing the dish there? The cost of the flight would be covered in about 2 months' service fees.

but how are we supposed to know if a domain exists or not? it's always going to return a value now, so we do what? hard-code the dns values for verisign's servers into our applications that need to know? (ie mail-related programs, filter programs) It's only 'neat' if your just browsing, which is not the only DNS is used for. (The folks at Hughes could use a lesson about this as well. They seem to think that all we use the internet for is browsing, so their internet connections via satellite pretty much say download fast, upload, 1k/s -- that may seem offtopic, but it's the same narrow-mindededness about the internet that causes things like that as well)

http://directv.direcway.com/

1) High latency - takes 1 - 1.5 seconds to start a transfer, but you receive at a decent rate once the transfer starts.

2) High setup costs - It costs $600 - $900 to set one of these up, however, there are usually plans to spread this out over a year's worth of payments.

My mom wanted to install a 2 way satellite broadband connection in the motorhome. The DirecWay people said it was impossible to have a mobile dish, because if the uplink signal crosses over into someone elses (like a TV channel) bandwidth, DirecWay gets fined $10,000 per minute. The FCC requires the system to be installed by a professional, as a result. Off the subject now, but it can be done in a mobile situation, by using an expensive ($5000) computerized positioning system. Back to what's relevant, if you tried doing something like jamming a network's satellite signal, you'd be putting yourself at a pretty good financial risk.

Hi!

What may be a very good option for you to consider is improving your Internet connectivity and then exploring VOIP (Voice Over IP). DirecTV has a satellite data arm called DirecWay that offers two-way broadband via satellite dish. (We have considered it, but only as a fallback to our existing circuit.)

Once you have the broadband, look at VOIP...
Once you have broadband, you might want to look at VOIP, especially Vonage. They will assign you a number and provide "local" calling service to every exchange in your "home" area code(s). VOIP quality is improving, and there are more and more people in the newsgroups providing helpful advice.

Is this the BEST solution?
Your mileage may vary. This is certainly a cutting edge solution--and, as the old adage goes, it may be hard to stay on the cutting edge without bleeding. If you're looking for better bandwidth anyway, it's worth taking a look at.

>No wireless, high-speed connections can go for very long distances.

I dunno, but DirecWay wouldn't agree... Then again, the absolute maximum throughput (if you owned the satellite) is about 1 Gbit.

Just saying, it is possible if you aren't moving a bunch, but mobile high speed, that is a long way off.

>IPSec is nice and everything, but you don't want to waste that much CPU power, and delay, just to visit slashdot.

I dunno, I once had satellite internet that ran with IPSec (in the speedy mode the opinionated freeSWAN operator refused to support) and it was fine for using slashdot on, but useless for games (all that time delay and all... ;-)

>Not really, perhaps in theory though. Create enough interference on the frequency range it uses, and you can stop it.

Agreed. I have a DSS portable phone, and whenever I'm near the (somewhat leaky) microwave, it breaks up horribly. I suppose it would work fine at like 10 baud or something...

Then again, that microwave is pretty good at killing DVB-T television reception as well. At least I'm not turning green yet...

>Free as in, without limits? As in, your electric bill?

I suppose he means that if it covered the entire earth, and everyone was altruistic, a free version of the internet could be created. Imagine how long it would take a packet to traverse across the earth with such a setup, though... 24 hours? ;-)

While on the subject, can anyone comment on what their experience is with satellite based internet connections? How fast, what sort of latencies, downtime, weather impact etc.

I'm interested to get a DirecWay system, but one of the things that worries me is that it requires special software (supposedly).

Yes and yes.
Check direcway's here. (I prolly should have linked this in my original post. oops...)

According to DirecWay's FAQ bot thingie, they will be selling the DW4020 to consumers "fall of 2002" (read: "any day now").

The DW4020 is pretty much the standard DW4000 satellite modem boxen they currently sell, except it includes a third boxen that eliminates the need for a USB connection and presents 4 Fast Ethernet ports. Supposedly you'll also be able to buy this box separately to upgrade your existing DW4000.

Now the only question is when EarthLink will lower their monthly satellite service fees to match DirecWay through DirecTV. I just dropped BellSouth in favor of EarthLink this past June and I'm not interested in changing ISPs yet again so soon.

My parents live in rural IL (61330 area code), and are using DirectWay (DirectTV satellite internet ), with success.

No, it doesn't have the ping time you guys like, but its extremely popular among rural farmers already.

Byron

When you consider that the basic setup and install is over $500, this is a fairly expensive way to go, but I guess if your desperate for bandwith in rural areas . . .

before tou even think about DirecWay be sure to read Hughes Fair Access Policy (FAP). What a croc of shit...
FAP
don't even think about downloading the latest RH ISO images.

I needed to make a similar decision and decided to go with DirecWay instead. There seems to be less problems with DirecWay (not that it doesn't have problems). Make sure you get service directly from DirecWay, as resellers such as Earthlink and Pegasus seem to have more problems (as an example, DirecWay customers get software upgrades much quicker).

A good site for info is DirecPC Uncensored.

I don't have the Dish system but I do have a Hughes DIRECWAY system on my motorhome with a MotoSat Datastorm mount.

It works very well, but you have to keep in mind there is some latency as the signal has to travel up to the satellite in the Clarke belt and back down both ways in addition to the latency in the ground network. I have the business service with a static IP address and have seen as much as 2 Mbit/sec download. But the upload is slow--usually around 64 kbit/sec and sometimes as high as 100 kbit/sec but never any higher. It would suck for gaming.

The "modems" require a USB connection and a PC running Windows--you have to use the DIRECWAY software/drivers and it only works on Windows. I run Windows 2000 on the satellite access machine and it works well. Other folks are on XP and 98 but a variety of problems do crop up on the "consumer" versions of Windows I hear.

To let other operating systems access the satellite network you can use Windows' Internet Connection Sharing (ICS). I'm using this and share the connection via Ethernet to an Apple Airport base station and allow my Macs and Linux machines access the network via the wireless connection. It works very well.

BTW, last I heard, EchoStar (the parent of Dish and Starband) were getting out of the Internet access business and leaving DIRECWAY as the sole comsumer satellite Internet provider as part of their yet-to-be-approved takeover of Hughes Electronics (parent of DIRECTV and DIRECWAY).

YMMV.